Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

I'd like to start off this meeting by thanking the wonderful [laughter] brain is gonna fly out of her hand. Okay. Okay. Um seeing how it is 5:30, uh I'd like to call to order the Thursday, November 6, 2025 city of Conway Planning Commission meeting. Um all members have have their mics turned on, Mr. Brown. Okay, got it. Um, so first order or yeah, first order of business is the approval of the minutes from the October 2nd, 2025 meeting. So moved. I have a first. Do I have a second? Second. Min. All those in favor? I. Any opposed?

All right. Uh, moving on to public input. Uh so if there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak on any matter, um we'll give you three minutes. Come up, state your name and address.

You good? Okay. All right. I will make a motion to close public input. I don't want to talk since no one else is there.

Okay. If you'd like to come up and state your name and address. [snorts] My name is Amy Lever. I live at 15 Clemson Road and I would like to say I'm strongly against the annexing of that little property caddy corner [snorts] of my house. Um, I bought this house because it was a nice house and a nice area with people that own their houses for the most part. [snorts] There are some renters. We have renters next to us. They're very nice. They've never bothered us once. We do not want to have that little area annexed into the city. so that the city can then build something awful. Okay. And are you speaking to the 39 acres or the.35 Clemson Road or Cottage Lane? Clemson Road.

Okay. But if Cottage Lane is in my area, we also don't want that. Okay. [laughter] Okay. [snorts] Okay. Thank you. Okay. All right. Anybody else? Okay. I will make a motion that we close public input. I'll second. All right, we have a first and a second. All those in favor? I Any opposed? All right. Uh, next on the agenda is the approval of the 2026 planning commission meeting schedule. [snorts]

Um, yeah. So, there's three dates um in 2026 that it will you guys would actually meet the second Thursday of the month. one because the first Thursday falls on a holiday or around a holiday and then it'll be again in the second Thursday in December due to the tree lighting being the first Thursday in December next year. All righty. Does anybody have any questions, comments, concerns? Make a motion to approve as presented. All right. We have a first second. We have a second. Uh all those in favor. Any oppose? All righty. Moving on to subdivisions. Item A is Rivertown Road North phase one. [snorts]

Yes. So um the technical review committee when a final is requested to be approved for subdivision [snorts] which actually creates the infrastructure in place they have to supply what's called a financial guarantee in the form of a letter of credit can approve that um for the first year and then the firsts to After the year, TRC can approve that renewal following that planning commission is required to review and approve any future renewals beyond the first time and along with any reductions that would accomp [snorts]

request. Um, this [clears throat] is for Rivertown Road North. Um, I counted that they have about 16 lots in phase one remaining and they're proposing to reduce the letter of credit to approximately $163,761. Um, staff does recommend the extension of the letter of credit and the reduced amount for an additional year. And I do believe from home present. If you have any questions, does anybody have any initial questions?

I'll make a motion to recommend approval of the um the reduction and renewal [snorts] of the letter of credit in the amount indicated by staff. Second. A first and a second. All those in favor? Any oppos? Okay. Moving on to public hearings, resoning requests number one. [snorts]

All right. So, this property is the coastal subdivision at the corner of Singleton Ridge Road. There are several lots within the subdivision that have been annexed over the years as a result of the existing homes being sold and new accounts having to be set up to receive city utilities. Um, so what's there is there's nothing new that would be proposed for the lot. It's just a requirement to receive city utility. in a new account name that they have to [snorts] request annexation. Um the property is currently zoned SF10 in Ory County's jurisdiction which is a residential district that permits single family sight built homes on a minimum lot size of 10,000 square feet and the proposed zoning upon annexation is low to medium density residential or R1 which is consistent with the zoning of other properties that have been annexed in this subdivision over the years. Um the city's future land use map identifies the property as R1. Um, first reading of the annexation of the property was approved at the October 6 council meeting and first reading of the proposed zoning upon annexation is scheduled for November 17th. Final reading of the ordinances to annex the property and the proposed zoning could occur as soon as December 1st. Um, this item is a public hearing, but I'll be happy to answer [snorts] any questions that you have.

All right. So, um it is within the city service district, which is why this request is coming before us. Um the adjacent property is already R1. So, this is kind of a standard thing that we've been doing in this area. [snorts] Um the property behind it that's commercial is already in the city. Correct. That's right. Yeah. Everything on the left, if you look at the [snorts] current zoning map, everything that has a color um is in the city limits. Eventually, all the lots within this development will be in the city limits. Okay. Um, and it does not affect for everyone in the audience, it does not affect any other current land owner.

No, the only time it would affect land owners is if they sold the property, then the new owner when they requested to get a new city water account, they would have to um request annexation and file restrictive covenants unless there's already restrictive covenants on file. Okay. All right. Does the board have any other questions? All right. Um, it is a public hearing, so I'll open it up to the public if anyone has anything they'd like to say on this. [clears throat] All righty. I will make a motion that we close public input. A second. We have a second. All those in favor? I Any opposed? All righty. Back to the board.

I'm going to make a motion that we uh approve resoning um agenda item 6A1. um low dens low medium density residential R1. Okay, we have a first. Do we have a second? Second. We have a second by Mr. Anderson. All those in favor? I. Any opposed?

All righty. Uh moving on to item two. This is a request to reszone two parcels located at the corner of Church Street and Cottage Lane. Both of these parcels are currently zoned low medium density residential or R1. One of the parcels is where a title loan business have been located for several years. The other parcel between the title loan place and Burger King is vacant with the exception of a billboard. The requested zoning is Highway commercial, which is also consistent with the city's future land use map. And pending planning commission's recommendation, first reading of the resoning request could be considered for first reading at the November 17th council meeting. And this item has also been advertised as a public hearing.

All righty. Any input from the board on this one? So, this is a donnut hole in the city right now. Well, it's already in the city. There are some donut holes directly behind it. I think most of it's residential but um or has residential uses but it's in the county zoned highway commercial. Eventually those will be in the city but these are it's awkward that they are zoned R1, right? Um when everything around it is highway commercial. Okay. All right. Um again this is a public hearing. So is there anyone in the public who'd like to speak on this one? Seeing none, I'll make a motion that we close public input. Second.

A second. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Ready? Um, I didn't ask this on the first one, but I guess is the applicant present if you'd like to say anything? No. Just checking. Um, anybody have any thoughts, comments? I think I [clears throat] think it makes sense. It's too I drove by it the other day and it's just, you know, empty lot and and a house that That house has been a business. It's been a business for a very It's been a business for I know of at least 40 years. I think it was a house before at some point. Yeah. When you drive by it looks like a residential home,

but it was a craft store way back when it was. Yeah. I think it's common sense. Did you open up publicly? [laughter] I did. Okay. I did. All right. Well, I'll make a motion that we approve uh the resoning request as presented. Second.

First and a second. All those in favor? Any opposed? All righty. Moving on to discussion items. The first um discussion item that staff wanted to discuss with planning commission um briefly was it's been deferred a few times due to the comprehensive nature of this amendment and ultimately the result that the amendment could have on existing businesses and I think I've got hold on I'm sorry I might not have anything up here for the first one. Yeah, I do. There we go. um [clears throat] some of the uses in highway commercial, we wanted to see if whether or not those uses would be would be better suited in other zoning districts like um light and heavy industrial districts. Um, other options uh that staff has looked into was the adoption of a special exception process where certain uses that are permitted in our in our ordinance would need to be considered by the board of zoning approve approval or the board of zoning appeals for approval to ensure that the proposed use meets specific standards and the general intent of the zoning district in which it's located, but also that it won't be of detriment to surrounding properties. In this instance, the proposed use at a certain location, if the district permits the use, would be advertised for a public hearing that would be held by the board of zoning appeals and they would have the ability to impose conditions on the use if it's approved to ensure that surrounding properties, specifically residential uses, would not be harmed by the use. For some uses, that would give the public, in particular, the property owners immediat immediately adjacent to the proposed use an opportunity to voice concerns should they have any. Orie County uses the special exception process for many uses, including bed and breakfast, restaurants and bars that serve alcohol for on-remise consumption, outpatient drug treatment facilities, casino boats, as well as what's called a

rural tourism permit. Rural is a very hard word for me to say. Um, but we'll get into that more with the with the next item. Um, but those are some of examples of what the county um requires a special exception for. Uh, this proposed amendment will largely affect highway commercial, the most intense commercial district the city has outside of industrial, but serves automobile oriented uses such as those that you'd find off major highway corridors, restaurants, shopping, retail centers, and uses, and several other uses that would not be permitted in less intense commercial districts like neighborhood commercial and professional. So two uses that have been discussed previously are tobacco shops and financial institutions. Not because those two those two uses themselves are an issue, but similar uses like vape or smoke shops or a payday loan establishment. There have been discussions of limiting vape shops and payday loan providers or cash advance places which are often considered predatory lenders because of their lending practices um that disproportionately target vulnerable populations and vape shops often overconentrate in certain corridors corridors or areas such as lowincome or minority areas and clustering of those establishments contribute to blight. They reduce diversity of services and they give a perceived degradation of the quality of the area. And while these types of businesses cannot be outright banned, um where they are permitted to operate can be they could be defined separately in the unified development ordinance. The districts they operate in can be limited with stricter zoning standards or limiting the number of such establishments within a certain area, increased setbacks or separation requirements, increased buffers or other standards that could be implemented. The city of Colombia, for example, they

drafted an amendment in 2022 to define smoke and vape shops separately, as well as conditions for the use that included a required distance of a,000 ft from schools, daycarees, parks, churches, and other smoke or vape shops. Other cities across the United States have adopted zoning changes and licensing controls with regard to tobacco and vape smoke shops that prohibits them from locating near certain sensitive areas and established rules for existing non-conforming stores as well as establishing caps on the amount of stores based on population size or outright limiting the number that could be permitted in the city or town. And the same is true to payday loan or cash advance centers including spacing requirements or a cap on the total number. One idea that staff had was to remove those two uses from highway commercial as a permitted use and allow them as a conditional use in the light industrial and heavy industrial districts only. Conditions such as dis distances to residential uses, schools, etc. could be placed on the use even if even if it is in the industrial districts. This doesn't address the ones that are currently opened in the city, they would become legal non-conforming. [snorts] And short of amending the ordinance to the contrary, if a vape store ceases to operate today, a different vape store could start operating in the same location tomorrow. And the only time the use would no longer be able to operate at the same location is if there is a lapse in that particular use for six months or longer. Um, [clears throat] there is a handout. is the discussion item one that has a table with all of the uses in highway commercial, light industrial, and heavy industrial identifying them as either permitted, conditional, or accessory along with the applicable sections of our ordinance that outlines any conditions associated with the use. But this amendment would also give you an

opportunity to add uses that we don't currently have like event venues, whether it's indoor or outdoor. Um, we do have banquet or event halls, but those are defined a little bit differently. Um, this is just a discussion item, but before staff brought you a uh an amendment um that is going to be so comprehensive in nature and could include new requirements. Um, we wanted to get your feedback on it as well. Didn't the city of Myrtle Beach do something similar to this? It seems like I read that they did or they tried to. Yeah.

And I think they went through and forced the vape shops into and other businesses are into um certain area and they ended them being able to operate in their current locations by not issuing their business license.

Yes, I think they do like a sunset clause. Um, and that is an option as well. But you can see here, this is just between um, Wright Boulevard and 501 um to the strip center across from Walmart. And there's several. There's four in one in one strip center um, off Rivertown Boulevard. Um, some of these aren't there anymore and that's why I put red X's. Obviously, they're they're going away, but today another one could locate there.

So, if we were to remove them, are all of these in HC zoning? Okay. Yeah. Um and all of 501 is basically HC, right? So, we would essenti Yeah. Um I just curious kind of what a a map of like So, if we remove that have use in HC or make it conditional like what areas of the city are we then kind of encouraging these businesses to go

right so they would be limited to the industrial districts and there really isn't a lot of areas so commerce plaza the Atlantic Center those were are your industrial parks that are in the city there are some parcels um along 378 that are industrial where you see a lot of trade shop uses go um so that would be an option as Well, um some of them do have frontage along on 378 that they could locate in, but it would just remove the ability um from highway commercial or any district that technically right now a financial institution is permitted. It would we would separate the use um and call it an alternative financial institution or something similar and then not permit the use in in this district. And there are other options. That's why I wanted to bring it for you instead of just bringing an amendment that does one thing and kind of let you know of other options that there are that other places have done like in instituting um separation requirements from other um similar establishments. Um and that is an option as well. But um we had a uh resoning request um earlier this year for a property on 701 North and it was already zoned highway commercial and [clears throat] they wanted to reszone to a district that would allow multifamily and that triggered council to bring up to staff the concerns with having highway commercial so close to an existing established neighborhood. um and wanted us to look at options on possibly limiting some uses or if not you know withdrawing that use from the district on implementing additional conditions um like gas stations for example um again or county makes you go to the board of zoning appeals if you want to serve alcohol whether you're an Applebee's or you're a bar if you're

going to serve alcohol for on premise consumption you have to request a special exception from the board of zoning And I'm not saying that that is as far as we would want to go, but um there is that that option as well for for certain uses.

I personally just my first reaction to it um I really like the idea of making it a conditional use in HC and having those distance requirements like from a church or school or another business because I think if you give that distance requirement like those four that are right next to each other that would never happen. Um, just because I know so much of our city is HC, like in the main corridor areas, like I don't want to limit someone's business, but I definitely see the need for not being overrun in the in those types of businesses. That's just my first

Yeah. Now, let me ask you this. With the payday loan, are you also looking at at um title loans, things like that that is is going to be encompassed in that as well? Yes.

Yeah. And and again, that's not just for those types. It's also for your vape or your smoke shops. Um you know, there was a time where we got requests to do them everywhere, even downtown. And technically, I don't know that there's anything that would actually prohibit them from from doing it downtown. The only thing our use table addresses um is tobacco shops. So, because tobacco shops are allowed in highway commercial, you can't really these are along the same line. But you do have the ability to separate the use by defining it differently as well.

The special exception route, does that stick does that go with the owner? It doesn't go with the land, does it? No, it does run with the It does run with the land variances run with the land. A special exception I'm trying to remember from my county days. It seems like whenever somebody wanted to do something, even if it was the same thing, they had to come back and ask for it again. So, you might be right on the special exception. It would run actually with the business that would make and not the land.

And that would be a pretty good that my initial reaction similar to Jessica's is conditional and I think the special exception getting that in place might be a a good thing too. So there's scrutiny and it relates to the particular owners um because the condition might run with the land. That was why I asked the question. I was concerned if it was

well variances definitely do and and if that's the route that um planning commission would prefer, we can look into that and make sure and then next month bring those um you know what that could look like. Um, but I do know that the county if specifically if you were a restaurant or bar, you had to go back if you were a new restaurant or bar because there could be a difference between an Applebee's and you know there the whole issue with there started with biker bars in near a residential um neighborhood in Little River and they wanted to there's a big difference between a biker bar and an Applebee. So the conditions might look different based on on what it is. So it seems like if every new owner had to go back for that,

I can support the conditional. It makes the most sense to me as well. [clears throat] And it gives an opportunity for a public hearing, too. So if you do a special exception and the property is posted, you know, surrounding property owners, you know, they're they're aware of the potential for that use to come in and they can offer input as well. So would they run separate? Like so the tobacco and vape would be separate of the like title loan or are we putting them together like no title like if you have a title loan you can't have a vape next to it or is it No, these are just separate.

Is there a conversation about creating a district where these businesses would be welcome? Um no, not creating a new zoning district. or an area like some sort of park like Atlantic Center that would be more proximal to this side of the Yeah, that was that that was one of the things that staff was looking at was to only allow them in industrial districts. So you would they would have to locate in places like the Atlantic Center or Commerce Plaza. I'd be interested in seeing a map just it help I'm a visual so like where those areas are too just out of curiosity.

Sure. Because the other thing I wouldn't want to have, you know, 50 vape and tidyone shops like in one because then you're ruining that. Not ruining, I'm sorry. [laughter] Is this the same thing that we've impacted?

I didn't see tattoo shops on the list. Is this the same conversation? Well, tattoo shops are already limited to the industrial districts and they actually have to be so many feet from another tattoo parlor and they also have to be so many feet from a residential district or use churches, daycare, public facilities, things like that. The same thing with adult entertainment. They have there's probably literally nowhere in the city you could actually do an adult entertainment establishment, but you have to have certain zoned areas that would potentially allow it. Doesn't like a liquor sales store have to be so so many feet away from like a church and stuff too.

That's a state that's a [clears throat] state law. Yeah. So the department of revenue I think that they would have control over that. They have to post the property and things like that and have to be so many feet from public daycarees and public schools. Yeah. And just on the clarity once all of this is done or if it's done uh this would be for new applicants and not existing.

Correct. Unless there is um interest in in u having a sunset clause that would basically what Myrtle Beach did say that you have this amount of time and your business license will not be renewed. Um we don't have anything like that now. Um but that's something that we could look at. And that is the thing, you know, I mean, anywhere that's been a vape store or a a cash advance or payday loan place, if somebody that one closed today and the same type of business wanted to open tomorrow, even with the ordinance in place, we have um our non-conforming uses and structures ordinance that says that 180 days. So, if 180 days does not go by, another like business could locate in that same location. So if we did the conditional though, we couldn't kind of do the sunset clause also then, right? Because then how would you you know once my business license is up if there's one next to me then I can't go back there automatically.

Yeah. I don't it have to be kind of one or Yeah. I think that what you'd have to do is you'd have to look at your non-conforming ordinance, which is article 12 of the UDO, and put something in there so that it affected all uses that were considered conditional and not targeting one specific type of use. Um, so I I would I would look into putting that in article 12 and just adding a condition in there for that if that's the way planning commission wanted to go. Would that affect some of the houses that we've annexed though if we do that? Um, you mean if it's zoned appropriately? No. Essentially what we're doing is just messing with the HC use table,

right? Yeah. And so we're not messing with anything else other than just that. Well, I was talking article 12. Anyways, I'm getting I saying that you're saying if it was

if we address something that had all the conditional uses in some of the houses that we've annexed that are like legal non-conforming or something like that. Anyways, I'm getting the weeds. Yeah, we could we'll Yeah, there's a uses section and a structure section, so we could separate that out for sure. I'll bring back some options next month. This is really just, you know, homework. I wanted y'all to take it home and look at it. And then, you know, next month when we come back, if you have something more questions or um want to see something else, that's why I didn't really want to rush into it because I knew that this was, you know, going to be there was going to be a lot to it. But there are they are considered um Lulu's is what they're called. Locally unwanted land uses. So this is one of several um types of uses. This and cash advance pay loan placements are considered locally unwanted land uses. But you you're right. I mean you do have to allow them some somewhere.

Any more thoughts? Anything you guys would like to see staff bring next month with regards to this? any specifically. Can we find that Sunset Law Firm Myrtle just for an example? Sure, absolutely. I think is there a lawsuit in Myrtle Beach regarding something with a sunset clause and the uh I I think there's a you're probably more familiar than I am, but I think it's one of the Lulu [clears throat] sort of businesses that is you talked about with the structures that they started tearing down.

I think I think it has to do with a change of zoning or or like a district use for I think it's an adult entertainment place and I are you talking about Seabard Street maybe? I I think I don't I just read recently or I don't know but we don't want to get into

I'll Yeah. And I'll definitely look in look into that. Yeah, I'll look into that for sure. I'll make sure. I guess the troubling part, the only thing that I'm trying to get ahead over is like, you know, I don't think the planning commission wants to be in a place of being a moral judge to what good what a a good business is, what bad business is. Like, I don't think that's that's our job, you don't want to be in a moral compassing of that. I feel like that's somebody else's job, you know? I um so when it comes to saying what what's appropriate for highway commercial, what's appropriate for highway industrial or or heavy industrial, light industrial, like um those are easy easier calls to make when we have good grid, you know. Um I don't want to be involved in a moral judgment on what is beneficial to a community because I don't know every community member, you know, I don't know every business owner, but I know that these businesses, some of them are profitable and necessary for different groups of people and I don't want to be the person who sits in judgment on whether this is a beneficial company or a business. it might be unsightly and we can do something about that or you know um but I think it's really weedy when we start making moral judgments or could get um

I think maybe my my comment to that would be I I I don't disagree with that but I think that in terms of the role and responsibility we're also trying to reduce externalities that are flowing to other people because of that present so we need to have a framework that not provides an opportunity for those businesses in appropriate locations, but also protects surrounding property owners. And so, it's a 100% I think coming up with a plan for these these businesses to have a place that they're just not like, oh, you can't do any of this stuff. Yeah.

Well, from my [clears throat] standpoint, the the sunset clause issue for these businesses in terms of renewing their business licenses, that kind of encroaches on what you were talking about. I mean, it's it's us as the planning commission deciding that um you know, we really don't want your kind here. I just you know, I um you know, I from from my standpoint, I think we can control future development, but I don't I would be opposed to the sunset clause portion of it. So, just putting it out there.

Yeah. And just remember, you know, the Supreme Court, you know, the village of of Amler versus the city of or town of Uklid gave um municipalities or local governments the right to use police power um for for zoning and you know, stating that cities and towns do have the right to control their growth, to control the way that their town looks by implementing certain standards, including zoning and what businesses they want and where for the purposes of protecting um the community. So from that standpoint, that's why there are certain uses, not just these. I'm not targeting just these, you know, that's why tattoo parlors or body [clears throat] piercing establishments or adult entertainment establishments all have to be located in certain areas to reduce the the negative secondary effects that could could be caused um by that use. So I do but I do completely um understand what you're saying. clear as mud for next month.

I'll bring back a map of um you know the city showing the industrial areas um information about the sunset clause if it's been used everywhere and then a couple of options of ordinances on what on what it could look like um should this move forward um just for discussion.

Okay. All righty. Moving on to the second one. So, a couple of months ago, staff was approached about the possibility of using a vacant space on Laurel Street, um, which is privately owned as a type of outdoor event space. And what makes this different from a special event, which is temporary in nature, is the property owner would like to construct a permanent pergola or decorative entrance and possibly have a stage for live music and tables and chairs with two food trucks set up on site. And it could be that the site would be used primarily for one specific business or it may be that the space would be available for events. The issue for this property is that it isn't tied to a brickandmortar establishment and there may be building code issues such as the requirement for an on-site restroom um for patrons to utilize. So most cities and towns simply refer to this type of use as a special event or in some cases a food truck corral or garden. The county has something called the rural tourism permit, which is for agricultural properties that want to have event facilities, farms that are open to the public and things of that nature. Those types of permits are not permitted outright. They're they have to receive a special exception through the county's board of zoning appeals. We've [clears throat] already gone through what the um special exception is, but a public hearing would be required. The BZA could impose conditions on the use and other uses also require spe a special exception in several other municipalities in South Carolina, although of course we don't have that process as of now. Um staff is looking at writing an ordinance for the special exception process for certain types of uses. This could be one of those situations where we have to do that here because our ordinance doesn't address temporary outdoor uses. Um [clears throat] there's a conceptual on a on the tractor

shed property downtown, but what we're looking at is to establish where what districts this would be permitted in. Um what all would be allowed and if this would be another use that we would want to go through the board of zoning appeals for a special exception process. Um due to the nature, you know, it would have live music, you know, food trucks, tables, chairs, it's outdoors. Um, so you have the noise component. Um, but we just wanted to bring that before you and let you know that staff is working on something for this specific type of use because it's not addressed in our ordinance.

So, the idea there would be that every time there was an event there, you'd have to pull a permit or is it you would have a special exception to be open? You would you would go through a special exception process one time. One time and then you'd have conditions set in that process. You'd have to operate. Yes, man. It's a really neat concept, but it doesn't take long to think of a lot of problems. Um,

right. Which is probably why we don't have anything like it in our ordinance right now. But we have gotten an increased interest um from people to to do something like this. And there are two great locations to do to do these. I mean, as far as Conway, I imagine I mean, I don't know how the business owners feel on the other side of the of that shed, but I imagine the ice cream shop above a food business across the street from them and then come over for dessert or or whatever. But, you know, the empty the empty lot that's in the city, I don't know. you mitigate. You'd probably want to It doesn't take long to get into issues, does it? You know, like we've got exhaust, you've got in a corral, you know, what are we doing with

substantially increase with traffic just noise, restrooms, [clears throat] but I think it's a great problem, great challenge to think about. So, this this property is own is privately held.

Yeah. and the owners are trying to figure out what to do with it. Um, they thought about just having like a food truck corral and we don't really want to pigeon hole it into just one type of thing. Um, but they could have food trucks, but again, they also wanted to possibly build a stage. And [clears throat] I believe their intent would be to um build like a a wall at the front um you know that that would kind of separate it off and it would be closed except for certain times. That would probably be a little bit harder to do at the other location. Um but they are looking at a way to close it off so it's not open just for anybody any time. I actually really love the idea and I wish Conway had more outdoor areas like this. Um, and I know that this is happening everywhere. So, I think there's lots of good examples for some ordinance language or I mean there's a way to figure it out. I feel like

there's a few places in Rainville that are doing very similar things. I would if you have the free time look at their ordinances. There's no driveway in there for Yes, I have um gotten some ordinances and gotten some ideas. It's just trying to figure out what to call it that fits Conway is the is the challenge right now. And I think there's a difference too between, you know, if you were wanting to have like a food truck corral place versus just, hey, come hang out and hear live music kind of place. Like when you have the food trucks and you said they want to fence it off and then using this specific location, you do a fence across the front. Well, that's cool, but how do you get your trucks in and out? How does the traffic, the vehicular traffic work with the pedestrians and

um you know, adult beverages and how do we control? So, but how does the city do um like the events like the Halloween event? I know there's the public restrooms in the town green. Um and so when food trucks come for that and everything, that's just a special event per

Yeah, a special events operated. It's different. And so while these food trucks are not permanent in nature and they could be different food trucks, just the facility itself, you know, you got someone who's renting an event facility, they're charging money, they'd have to have a business license. So with that comes the requirements for where the business is actually taking place. So at that location, there's certain requirements that have to be met, not necessarily for the food trucks themselves, just for the fact that that is actually a business location. Um there is a I believe the same owners might own that adjacent building um where the bathroom there's public restrooms inside there.

Yeah. So, they were trying to figure out a way of maybe doing uh a door or something on one side there that would lead to to the bathrooms. Um but that is the challenge is how do how do they not meet the building code requirements or the building code standards for for a business? And I think this one would be easier to meet than maybe the the other location at the tractor shed. I think that would be more of a challenge um than this location would be. But the city, you know, we offer those facilities for patrons that are just downtown. It's not owned by the business owner. And for a special event, you have the ability to bring in temporary restroom facilities because it's just a temporary event that doesn't last but so many days. And I guess my thoughts are like a special event. Imagine that going on all the time. Like what are the things that you would need to have that permanently installed like if they need to and you know I'm sure you could make a beautiful architectural restrooms in this space that's somehow integrated with the stage or something like that. Um and then you know the pergola idea or whatever. I mean my mind's just kind of going crazy on both sides. I think actually could be really cool. And I'm trying to think of an example like It's not a building, but like how do you permit a park, you know, like how do you So, it's kind of similar in that, but it's different uses. Um, anyways, I I really like the idea. I really like want Conway to

There are a lot of spots that we can use [laughter] it.

I think just to help kind of envision a little bit, may help, like Jessica was saying, the restrooms inside of the Blackwater Market. If you're familiar with the Blackwater Market, if [snorts] they were to put, let's say, a cased opening or an opening with a door kind of similar to the Blackwater Market entrance beside River City Cafe, that would almost be kind of where they're going to put it would be either directly across from or directly diagonal from what are already public restrooms. They are outside of existing businesses within the P Blackwater Market. So you wouldn't necessarily have to leave here, go through the Blackwater Market, then go into the habedasherie or one of the consulting offices to then access a bathroom. So like you guys were saying, this one may be a little bit easier to achieve. I just wanted to be able to kind of paint that picture so it was easier for you guys to understand this particular site as far as the bathrooms because that is a a big question for all of these locations.

So those bathrooms are always accessible like 247 kind of thing or for that business is inside the it's public. I know as long as the doors to the Blackwater Market are open, you can walk through the Blackwater Market and use those restrooms. You don't necessarily [clears throat] have to purchase anything from any of the businesses that are tucked in in that area. River City Cafe also uses those bathrooms. Um, and I'm not sure if they have hours on when they lock the Blackwater Market, but like Jessica was saying, the owners that own the Blackwater Market also own this property, so they would most certainly more than likely work within their own compounds already. But that doesn't answer our tractor shed dilemma.

Well, no, I don't I mean, I think that's that'd be the tractor shed's challenge to try to make it more like this and all the stuff you like restroom facilities. that's like kind of like top of the list and that seems like a very doable solution without a whole lot of effort. The other one's probably going to take some effort. Um, but there's probably a litany of things that I haven't even thought about that needs to be on the list. And that's it seems like you could hurdle or cross the hurdles easier at that location than the other. But the list will be the same if you do it

through special exception. kind of really the same thing that as long as the special exception is tied to that particular owner and not the land and you've got all these conditions, you could probably surprised you couldn't find something that was workable.

And the ordinance doesn't have to be catered to a specific location. It would be like Mr. Sly said, it would be up to the property owner who wanted to do it to meet the standards that planning commission and and city council wanted to adopt. um that would be their burden. Um the idea thought is to just have the use as an availability to people who could meet those um conditions that um were adopted. And just a little food for thought as well, anything of this nature, let's say we iron everything out, get our ordinance in place, anything within the downtown area would also have to go through CAB. So that helps on some side of those. There'll be questions that you guys may not think of that they'll be asking.

So, um, the trestle, I guess they have those chairs out permanently, right? Tables and chairs. Is that because they're tied to a physical building? How, how does that work? Um, I believe that the alley I think that was closed. I think they were given permission to close that alley to put them out there. Tables and chairs don't necessarily need cab review. So everything that they've done out there, just the tables and chairs themselves were were permitted because the alley was closed. Didn't that happen during co Yeah. And I love that, but I'm just saying like how did you know is there any kind of language that was used to let that happen that could maybe kind of help some of

For sure. Yeah, for sure. That was um but that was done. I'm pretty sure that required council um council's permission to do that. Yeah. And because what they have done beside the trestle is technically considered temporary. All of it could be removed in the event of hurricanes, high winds, whatever be the case. That sort of thing is done all over the country. Just alfresco dining. So yeah, but it's all Yeah, but you're right. The fact that there's a restaurant right there that use this would be different. There's nothing there's no immediate use right there. It's not like an accessory to an existing principal use like the Trestle and and Norman Alley, right?

Well, I love the idea. So, figure it out. No, I'm kidding. [laughter] In your free time, we will definitely bring back [clears throat] options whoever owns I don't know who owns it now. The tractor shed, is it the same as any of the rest of that property there? I'm not sure. Um, I know that those buildings are semi connected, but I'm not sure who I'm not sure who owns that. Um, pretty sure.

Yeah, I thought it all bought it. I know he I know he owns Shanties and 104 and Laurel. Um, and I'm almost positive he also owns this. I do think that's a little more recent than some of the other ones. Um, but yeah. So that would be that would make it a lot easier to

I do think one of the challenges that goes through my brain just to throw this out there too is like on the other example if you had a neighbor and you were like hey I I want to have residences upstairs or something and here you've just permitted this music venue or the music's going to bounce off all the walls. So I think there are challenges to it that really need to be thought through in that way as well. I mean you are outside if you're encouraging music you know Um, I think hours of operation would definitely decel all that kind of stuff. Measuring decibels. I don't know if we can do that quite, but yeah, I think noise will definitely be a large concern.

The board of educ [laughter] um Stella's tube, right? Don't they have a lot of outside stuff, too? I mean, I just love that that atmosphere and Conway is such like a downtown pedestrian that it would be great on the streets. Yeah. But I'm also more comfortable with like a singular business owner operating that property as opposed to like special events and Lord knows who's got it rented and um the accountability there makes me kind of nervous. the the if it's people that are operating it day in and day out, then that's um

and I think that definitely and I and I'm I apologize if I misinformed, but yeah, these would be the a property owner. This would be a business owner. They would be in control of what happens, right? But but there's a distinction between a business owner that's leasing it out and y'all go have a ball. Gotcha. As opposed to they're they're there um they're actually running the whole operation, right? Right. [clears throat] Almost reminds me of the back deck of the house of belie that or something. [laughter]

We'll bring back some examples um from other places next month. All righty. Moving on to board input. Anybody got anything good? Nothing. I have a question. I think we should [laughter] recognize the the swampy area there before you're going on the riverwalk by Kingston Point.

You know what I'm talking about where the boat was. They cleaned all that out. I just wondered what um is what are they going to do there? Pro hopefully nothing. Is that the place same place they're planting the fra? That's city owned property. And I know um every couple years we do we do have a um SACE permit to do some debreeding

things like that. Clean out the wetlands kind of thing because believe it or not if you don't keep them clean to a certain extent they can't do their actual job. So, um I do know at one point in time that was all we were doing with but it is city- owned property and I do know we have cleaned it in the past and I would assume that's kind of what's going along along those lines but I'm not 100% sure of if there's future anything. Well, I just was hoping that that wasn't because it's pretty low land. It's low talking about it ever something for water to go. Oh, no. It wouldn't be anything like that. No. If it's city owned it, no. I'm not going to do any building on it.

I actually think it's privately owned part of it, but um I've seen that whole I'd be surprised if they [snorts] All right. Uh any staff input? Um next month I will we will um have uh three new employees and two of them will um actually be assisting staff with the comprehensive plan. um very young, fresh out of college. So, I'll be bringing them to the next meeting um for y'all to to meet them. We're super excited to have them. Awesome. We look forward to meeting them up. Yeah. To the city.

Y'all be on your toes with questions. Very young. Very young. [laughter] I love it. Awesome. All right. Well, um upcoming meetings. So, we'll see you guys on December 11th at 5:30. And when's the tree lighting? Um, the first Thursday. The first Thursday, which is the fourth. The fourth. Okay. All right. Anybody got anything else? Yes. All right. Well,

I think I missed I should have asked you, but out of Sing Ridge that's being resoneed into the city, if I understood right, if you ownership or ren or whatever in order and water is cut off. If you come back to get water back on that property, it has to go into the city. If it's in the county, it has to go into the city in order to get water. So, I think staff can answer that question and I'm I'm going to adjourn the meeting and then I think Miss Huts right here, she can answer that question for you. Okay. All right. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Second. All those in favor?