City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening, folks.

We're glad that you have joined us this evening, particularly in light of the fact that it looks like about a 50-50 chance that we'll get out of here without getting wet. But thank you for attending. This is a duly called and convened. City Council meeting.

We have come together on July the 28th, 2026 for this meeting. I haven't called the meeting to order. I would like to ask Council Member Jay Arrowood, if he would, to lead us in a Pledge of Allegiance followed by an invocation.

If you'd like to join us, please stand.

Before I pray, I'm going to speak to the council. I heard it was a comment on our late Senator Lindsey Graham. And no matter where you were with or are with the way he thought and got things done, some of his colleagues always talked about he always said how he could not believe that he got to do all the things he did. And the last trip he took, he was. The colleagues that had been traveling with him said the same thing. I hope that we as council can have that enthusiasm about what we do for our city. Pray with me.

Dear Heavenly Father, I thank you for this day.

I thank you that you have given me the opportunity today to serve you as a help lead your city. I thank you for the ones who sit at this council table and they look to you for advice, for guidance. I thank you, Lord, that you are with us always. I thank you that for the people who filled these chairs before our time, that they, too, You used them, and the city has been blessed. I ask that you continue to bless our city, all that live here, do business here, and come to visit. Be with us through this meeting and give us the wisdom and guidance that we need to make decisions that are pleasing in your sight. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.

Ms. Duncan, anybody to appear in public forum this evening?

Yes, sir.

With that then, council, let's move to the minutes of the council meeting from July the 14th, 2026. I'll entertain a motion that they be received.

So moved.

Any items of note for the clerk? Hearing none, Ms. Duncan?

Mr. Arrowood? Yes. Mr. Booker? Yes. Mr. Hopper? Yes. Mr. Lander? Yes. Mr. Bettis? Yes. Mr. Lamb? Yes. Mayor Danner?

Yes. Next item this evening is Mr. Louis Vaughn would like to speak to council regarding the 26-27 budget.

He's the petitioner this evening, Mr. Vaughn.

The table is yours, sir. Three-minute time limit. We'll give you a warning at two minutes, and then another one when time is expired, sir. So the floor is yours.

Is it on? Everybody can hear? Yes, sir. Thank you, Mayor. I've got three minutes, right? Yes, sir. Okay. I can't get through it to you, so you'll see me again.

Okay.

Look, public services has asked for an additional $100,000. Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Louis Vaughn. I reside at 623 Ashley Commons. Now, I went on to YouTube last night, and I listened to the debates on the $100,000. Now, I want to recap. On May the 14th, you had a workshop, primarily for the police department, fire department, and for public service. At that workshop, surely those folks, police department, fire department, public works, public services, presented to you, somehow or another, what their budget needs was for 2026. At least that's the way it usually works now. So they didn't mention anything about an efficiency study or a new equipment at that time. Of course, I wasn't there, so I don't really know. But it was not in any records anywhere that I can find it. On, what, May the 26th, you had your first meeting regarding the 2026 budget. Was anything mentioned about the additional funds for the Public Services Department for any reason? Now, maybe there were. Again, I wasn't there and I did not go back and listen to it. However, On June the 9th, 2026, a bomb was dropped, at least the way I look at it in South Carolina legislature. But I wanted to get somebody's attention. I see what I call, I like the verbal hand grenade. And that usually got people's attention. Now, I don't know where the $100,000 come from. I would like to know. I can't find out. Now, all the discussions that I heard on the June 9th really didn't mean about an efficiency study. Now, the department heads, whether it be public service, police, fire, or administration or anything, the first primary responsibility those folks have, okay, that's it.

You've got another minute, sir.

Well, the thing about it is there's a rat somewhere. The smell is not good. If these folks can't provide their needs in the workshop in the first budget process, they shouldn't get it. Period. And the public has no responsibility to pay anything for anybody that don't do their job. is I got a target on my back, and that's fine. I'm the public enemy number one to you folks, I'm sure. But there's a heck of a lot more of them out there. And I want to keep coming back. Two minutes is not enough to explain how to get to the bathroom, let alone what is going on outside the hearing of, hey, you colorblind? That's great. Argueing? That would have been a greens argument. Thank you, sir.

Yes, sir.

Council, let's move to departmental reports.

In that package, you will find information in regards to the different departments that have provided us information this month. You can get additional information from the administrator. Mr. Klein joins us for our financial activity report. The floor is yours, sir.

Thank you. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Financial performance summary for the year ended June 30, 2026. Starting in general fund, there was a cash balance of $29,825,000. Revenues were $60,020,000. Expenditures were $55,979,000.

And we finished 4% under budget.

There was a favorable revenue benchmark variance of $1,527,000. A favorable expenditure benchmark variance of $2,513,000. and overall a favorable benchmark variance of $4,041,000. Moving to hospitality fund, there was a cash balance of $2,848,000, revenues of $4,078,000, and expenditures of $3,496,000. Finally, stormwater fund, there was a cash balance of $3,587,000, revenues of $1,600,000, and expenditures of $1,163,000.

With that, I'm happy to send for any questions. Council, the floor is open.

That was the year-end report, correct? Yes, sir. Is everything being closed out? Thank you for asking. That's a great question.

For the most part, yes, we still have some accruals that will be booked in until, quite frankly, our auditors get here in October, but for the most part, I'd say most of them are done.

We have some expenditure accruals that will still be coming in. We may have a revenue or so come in as well, but I'd say for the bulk of it, it's been closed out.

And what kind of, I guess, transfer will go to the reserve funds?

Yeah, so we still would... That would still be reflected, so those accruals would get booked in the prior year, right, still in June, and so that fund balance entry would still then be made at that time. We're still going to be doing that basically until our audit's completed, which is going to be in December. So it's still going to all kind of tie out the same.

And it should, $4 million roughly, is that what you're saying?

Yes, sir, about $4 million currently.

Others?

Thank you, sir. Thank you. With that then, council, let's move to the administrator's report. Mr. Merriman.

Thank you, Mayor, Council. I'm not going to get into everything that is going on between Parks, Recreation and Tourism, but I would encourage everybody to just touch base with our social media accounts as well as our website to learn about what's going on at the Center for the Arts, the Farmer's Market, Moonlight Movies, Park Hop Playdate, and then we just announced a new visitor's guide. um that will be in a lot of places around town so be on the lookout for that um i want to touch base real quick the improvements over century park are now completed this includes new stairs sidewalks railing side and some strategic landscaping to address some erosion problems in the lower section of the park so that has been finally wrapped up and uh want to announce also that something we do annually that is very popular with the police department is National Night Out. National Night Out this year is going to be held Tuesday, August 4th, so a week from tonight at Century Park. This is an evening celebrating community partnerships and crime prevention. Children 12 years old and under are invited to enter the crime prevention art contest, create an original drawing or painting that relates to crime prevention, community safety, or partnerships between first responders and the community. So for information on that, please go to the city's website for a little more information on that. And with that, Mr. Mayor, Council, that concludes my report. Thank you, sir.

Hey, Mayor. Mr. Merriman and Council, I know everyone knows my concerns about the amount of smoke and vape shops that's been popping up, especially in the District 2 community, but all across some of the other areas in Greer. I'd like to... formally ask for you to allocate some time for our staff to look into this issue to see if there's any adjustments we should be making to our UDO to potentially classify this as its own category or what have you that the staff comes up with working with our other departments like police that may have concerns as well.

Yeah, Mr. Booker, I'll be glad to do that. If I may recommend, we do a workshop with council possibly. And I would get with Tammy on scheduling this. But probably at the second meeting in August, we do a workshop before council meeting to help give us staff some guidance on what council feels should be included in ordinance, if in fact an ordinance is something this council wants to move forward to. That way we've got a more fruitful discussion as opposed to staff generating an ordinance, bringing it to council first reading, and then we find ourselves, in effect, doing the same thing, amending it, et cetera. So if council's okay with that, I think we could probably go along with scheduling a workshop and start from there.

Is that appropriate?

Yeah.

Okay.

Let's move in that direction. Mr. Merriman? Yes, sir. Just on the same thought, I think a lot of the reporting of bad things that come from them are the young people, people under 21 who are buying these products and they show up in schools. This was a problem many years ago with underage folks buying alcohol. Police departments all around did basically stings. That might be something that we want to consider as well. as also trying to maybe glean some information from our officers that are in the schools that they know what's going on and they can kind of talk to some folks and maybe they can figure out where some illegal sales are being made. Seems prudent we would include the police department in our discussion.

Well, I think that's why a workshop is prudent to parse out the legal components of it versus the land use components of it. And I want to make sure that we're going in the appropriate direction if we, in fact, have to go in two different directions. So, yes, sir, I hear you.

Andy, something else on the engineering activity report that's mentioned here is...

quiet crossing, more street closure, RR starting soon.

RR, I would.

Railroad.

Railroad starting soon, what is that?

We can get you more information about where we're on that project, but the Quiet Crossing, Moore Street, that is, the engineering is led largely by the railroad, and so they kind of do that process, but we can give you a little bit more information. That is a heavily railroad-led initiative.

Okay.

Others? Administrator stands ready to give you any additional information you might need if questions come up.

With that then, let's move to the whole business.

First item this evening is the second and final reading of ordinance number 19-2026. This is an ordinance to provide for the annexation of certain properties owned by 199 LLC located on Freeman Farm Road by 100% petition and to establish a zone of classification of traditional neighborhood for said properties. The floor is yours, ma'am.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

So the only update I have on this item is that Planning Commission held a public hearing on July 20th and they recommended approval. Happy to answer any questions that you might have.

This comes to second reading. For the purpose of discussion, I'll entertain a motion to receive.

So moved.

Second.

And second. Floor is open for discussion.

When did we do the first reading on this? It was the last your last meeting in the month Discussion This is the one that they were requesting I Traditional neighborhood, but the density was going to be extremely low.

Correct. Yes. Yes. It's for two parcels off of Freeman, just south of Freeman Farm Road. It's about 65 units, but the total acreage combined is about 33 acres. Okay.

Okay. Just jogging my memory since I can't find my notes.

Further discussion? Ms. Duncan?

Mr. Erwood? Yes. Mr. Booker? Yes. Mr. Hopper? Yes. Mr. Lander? Yes. Mr. Bettis? Yes. Mr. Lambs? Yes. Mayor Downer? Yes.

Council, let's move to the second item, the second and final reading of Ordinance Number 27-2026. This is an ordinance authorizing the conveyance of any and all interest in certain real property located in the City of Greer. Any additional information in regards to that, Mr. Merriman?

No, sir, other than to say that this is related to Project Keystone, and by way of reminder, the ordinance in the purchase sale agreement assumes the successful negotiation of the development agreement, which this council will have to consider when we get to that point.

For the purpose of discussion, I'll entertain a motion to receive.

And a second. When would we anticipate getting a development agreement?

uh upon passage we would begin the negotiations of the development agreement so um the if i'm not mistaken um and perhaps mr deaton could qualify and he comes up but we have 120 days to negotiate that

Council, no further questions until we get a second. Otherwise, it dies. This is for Project Keystone. Second. Got a second. Floor is open for discussion.

Keystone is located down in the heart of the city.

Yes, sir.

So 120 days of discovery on their side, right?

So 120 days between the city and the developer to negotiate the terms of a development agreement, which we would then bring back to council for your approval.

Okay.

Mr. Merriman, I'm sorry for my delay because I was trying to make sure which one this was. I'm glad I had the exhibit at the bottom. Over the past couple of months, I've been meeting with a lot of the merchants downtown. The number one issue they mentioned every time resounding was parking. And so my question tonight is, and before I can support this on second reading, is during due diligence, can we make a commitment that we will be working through a solution of what parking will look like? Because it sounds like the merchants aren't against the project, but they just want to know what will happen once they lose these spaces.

Mr. Booker, I can assure you that that is as high importance to staff as it would be to council and certainly the merchants. And the only thing that I can say to allay any of those concerns is that we will take the same care and intentionality that was taken when the downtown streetscape project was performed in 2019 and 2020. We will be as intentional with communications, with alternative parking options, work with the contractor record and the developer to ensure that there is as little impact to downtown merchants as possible. The understanding that we will be mitigating existing parking concerns with the construction of this project. So it is good to hear that there is parking concerns downtown and we will be addressing those both through construction and post construction.

Can we, in the interim, as we work through the due diligence process, I know we've done a lot of work with a parking study plan. I know we've even gone to the extent of modifying parking downtown. At least have some collaboration with the merchants to tell them where we are, where we're heading, just so that they... They're almost left in the dark at this point, and me even being on council, it's hard to... quantify and give them what this vision looks like. I know some of the components we've done over the years and we purchased additional property in the parking garage, of course, but at least give them some kind of idea of where this thing is heading in the interim before someone breaks ground on that. That would be amazing.

Yeah, again, Mr. Booker, I can assure you that we will be very intentional on this communications plan. And, of course, obviously we can't get too far ahead of ourselves until council makes a decision on whether or not to even move forward with this project. But assuming an affirmative vote from council on Project Keystone tonight, that will start the clock ticking on getting a plan as we run with the negotiations for the development of Grand Canyon.

It would be a good idea to use the template that we had set when we did the downtown revitalization this last time. Because I think that all the things you were saying were implemented. I believe that's where we brought in our vehicles, the shuttles. Yeah.

Yeah. This project doesn't work without parking on two or three levels, so I think it's going to be of the utmost importance for us as we move forward. Other discussion?

Questions? It will be great to see.

Comments? Hearing none, Ms. Duncan.

Mr. Herewood.

Yes.

Mr. Booker.

Yes.

Mr. Harper. Yes. Mr. Lander.

Yes. Mr. Hess.

Yes. Mr. Lamb. Yes. Mayor Danner.

Yes.

Item three, council, second and final reading of ordinance number 282026. This is an ordinance authorizing the conveyance of any and all interest in city real properties located inside the city of Greer. For the purpose of discussion, I'll entertain a motion.

So moved.

And I will need a second.

Second.

The floor is open for discussion.

This is the one that, like, there's not really. It's out there. Huh? It's out there.

It'll be referred to as its name. Project Titus. Project Titus, yeah. Yes, sir.

It's hard for me to. back this one because it doesn't support the reason why that land was purchased um sorry i'm not speaking in the mic but

I feel like this land was purchased to support the success of the Sports and Events Center keeping people in Greer to do what the feasibility study said, which was have an economic impact on the city.

I believe tying this land up for a year and a half is not going to be beneficial to that cause. Yeah, I'm not supportive of this one.

I believe it was actually purchased for the sporting event center initially, was it not? Yes, sir, we did.

Yes, it was as much intentional for a potential site for the sports event center as it was to take advantage of the fact that a zoned and entitled piece of property did come available that determine the final disposition of its use.

Mr. Mayor, this is just moving to the next step once again of having a development agreement hammered out, that would again come back to us with the specifics before anything was executed, correct? Yes, sir. This is just like 27-2026 that Council just passed.

This is expressly predicated on the successful negotiation of a development agreement.

The previous Council had extensive conversation about what we would like to see on this after we went in a different direction for the actual site of the Sports and Defense Center.

very specific usage that we did want to see there to support the Sports and Defense Center.

My understanding, in our discussions, that still remains on the table as we've given our feedback pending approval of this. So that's why I can support this. And I actually think some of the other... It's important to me as well, some of their quality of life and amenities for our residents as well. I think there's potential based on the feedback that council has given to you, Mr. Deaton.

I think there's potential for this to serve multiple purposes, both to serve very well for the sports and events facility as well as be a quality of life site for our community as well.

And so it's my opinion that we're in a good spot with this concern. I look forward to, again, pending approval of the item, I look forward to the development agreement that you bring back to us based on the feedback that's been given to you.

I think the pushback that I'll give on that is that we'd be I mean, the contract says what the anchor is going to be. I'm not sure what I can and can't say, but we'd be tying this piece of land up for a year and a half, well after the Sports and Events Center is open. So if it's a huge success... The person that is, I mean, we're signing a contract to sell the property, right? They can hold it for a year and a half and other deals, possible deals, if the sports and defense center is successful as we think it's going to be. are going to come and go. So I tied it up for a year and a half with an anchor that does not support the Sports and Events Center or keeping people in the city. I'm lost.

Yeah, I would argue based on the anchor that we're talking about, I would argue that it does in many ways support the Sports and Events Center based on talking to a lot of travel team folks. But even the anchor has its own specific appeal for the Sports and Events facility. And again, it has much utility potentially you know, for the residents in the area. I get, to your point, I hear what you're saying. My question is what would we be waiting for? I hear a year and a half is a thing. What would we be waiting for? What would a win look like and how would we guarantee that that win is gonna come?

Well, we can't guarantee it, but that's what was voted on prior to me getting on council was a feasibility study that has a number of heads and beds in the city. And we don't have the capacity, but heads and beds to that number. So by voting this in, we're, I don't know which, I mean, it's just two different sizes of a ball, I guess.

I get that. I think all the heads don't have to be in all the beds on this particular site, though. This is one piece of what we already see happening in that area, in my opinion.

Were both of those properties purchased at the same time or close to the same time period? This property and the site where the sports and bed centers. No, sir.

This was purchased first.

This was purchased first. Yes, sir. And the next one was purchased. Oh, gosh, probably a year later.

No, not years. It was probably purchased every bit of, you know, between nine months to 12 months afterwards. It was a fortuitous sale.

I think it's just... I have a few issues with it, and to go along with your... due diligence time argument, just based on not saying that the folks that want to enter this agreement with us, the developers, will do this. But in many cases, a developer will, because it's part of their operating expenses, they'll tie up a parcel of land for another customer of theirs. And then due diligence goes, you know, carries on and then, no, we're not going to do anything. I have concern there. And I guess another big concern is that we want to incent this project heavily. And we don't, the incentives I don't think would be tied to hospitality, a hotel. I think the incentives would be whatever else could be the anchor. And so if it would take an amendment But the way I can support it is that we take and we say we're not going to incentivize that parcel for that type of business because that's something that we've never done before. Well, I take that back. I don't know. Prior, I came on council. There were a few developments that were made, and I'm sure it was incentivized, but I can't remember anything in the... recent history where we've incentivized development for the particular business that they are talking about anchoring that development. But I would say that we would incentivize it if it was for something that had a direct impact on our city that is a result of us building and operating our sports and events center.

Mr. Merriman and or Mr. Dean, can you speak to how normal or out of the norm the timeline for due diligence is this type of project and situation?

Yes, sir. Mr. Deaton would like to give some color to this comment. He's obviously more than welcome. He's been kind of tip of the spear on a number of these specific negotiations. But from a due diligence period, from what we see specifically with an anchor, with what we're talking about, this is normal. This is normal. And it's irrespective of the brand, the type, this is what's to be expected. And this is not just speculative on our part. This is something that has been very expressly told to us, not only by the folks that represent us on these real estate transactions, but the developers that are coming in that would attract these. This is just par for the course.

We've expressed very clearly, I think, that we desire hospitality elements to be strongly present on the property. In the discussions with these folks and others who are interested in doing something here, the potential anchor is market driven in their estimation, correct? Yes, sir. I think for me that speaks to, we have to listen to people who put millions of dollars of their own capital online and do this all day every day. to some degree from a market decision standpoint. I think market driving what's being asked for in a spot is important from my perspective. I do hear the concerns about the timeline. I just, again, what are we waiting for if this isn't what we want with the presence of the of the hospitality elements that we all agree are important in that area and on this property.

I would say that the market demand could be significantly different after the Sports and Defense Center is started. I think if I did it right, 460 days due diligence. I might have missed another 60 in there. Might be 520.

I think that's if they exercise all of the available extensions. Yes, sir. It could be that high. But the only thing I will just add to this is the due diligence period aside, which I respect the concern on that amount of time, The existence of the requirement for a development agreement in both the contract that was just approved in the previous agenda item and this one, ensures that what council desires will be in effect on this property okay so what we're doing is this is a simple contract for sale purchase real estate and a lot of this is boilerplate language that a lot of you may when you buy or sell real estate or i may buy or sell real estate you're going to see a lot of this language the existence of the development agreement ensures that the use Those incentives will be spelled out very clearly for this council to once again approve or deny. And if you deny the development agreement, then this goes away.

Mr. Erwood makes a good point. So that is concerned. The concerns he raises can be addressed in the development agreement. Yes. Yes. 18 months.

I think we're missing part of the point here. That land's not going to be any less valuable 18 months from now than it is right now. In fact, maybe even more attractive. I mean... What have we lost but the 18 months?

We have to realize that not everybody that is going to do a hospitality project in the city is going to do it within walking distance of our facility. I mean, there are as attractive sites all over the city, particularly along 85 and

and some of the other areas where they can branch out into other endeavors. So, I mean, I think we're missing part of this conversation is, other than time, I don't see that we lose anything and we may gain something.

When you build an attraction in a city, usually... if it's a successful attraction, hospitality wants to swarm that attraction. And this is, I mean, yeah, there's more land throughout the city, but nothing within a couple hundred yards of it.

Well, one of the biggest event centers in the upstate is no longer used for that purpose. I don't know that there was... I don't know that there was... hospitality venue within miles.

But it failed.

Well, it wasn't because the people didn't come.

You can say that it wasn't because it was...

I mean, there are some unicorns. You and I have talked about Florence. They've got 13 buildings within walking distance of some of their attractions. But that also is located hard by I-95. You're right.

And I think what makes our site different from a Florence is that there was a lot of open and easy developable land. Absolutely.

The one issue that I see with the developing of property is that

your least expensive property is going to be what is undeveloped. Well, besides that spot out there, there's not anything that's hasn't been developed up either recently or many, many years ago, which then you must go back and say, well, if there's a reason for someone to bring that old property into the city, then they have to reclaim the property and make it work for what they want to put there. I believe that it will be easier for them to go somewhere else and not have to go through some of the expense and still be able to provide that service that's going to feed off of the Sports and Events Center. I think that if we miss the opportunity and we proceed as we're going now, and the way I think it's going to proceed is that we will not capitalize on what that could be. Because I believe the intent is to incentivize that property. And at the very least, if we're going to do that, then we need to incentivize it for something that is a little bit difficult to get here right now.

But if we've got a year and a half track record of success, we may not even have to incent future development on that land. And here's the thing. hospitality venues are you going to have on there? One? Maybe two? You know, if you're going to build a shoe store on there, I'm not going to build one on the same property.

Well, I mean, I just don't like that we... One of the things I do not like is the time it's going to take with the due diligence. I believe that if we said, hey, we're not going to incentivize it for the way that you have proposed so far, they probably would go away. Others?

How much did we purchase the land for?

We purchased that property for about 3.8.

And we're selling it for 3.5? We are. Okay. So the land is less valuable today, or is it just because that's a further incentive to the purchaser?

Part of the opportunity cost that we're willing to consider as we go through this is moving forward to get the property developed as quickly as possible.

Not just this project, but this type of situation, the ROI is not just measured in money in, money out necessarily, but what comes out of quality of life for the community, how it serves with other pieces in that area, and then the long-term other revenue that it generates as well on the site and elsewhere.

Yes, sir. I think that's precisely what we're talking about here. It's not just the dollars in, dollars out of the property transaction, but what's the long-term benefit of the property. And let's also not forget that a number of the discussions on the purchase of the property were predicated on the fact that this piece is uniquely situated as a gateway into the city with four lane divided highway on both sides of this property. And it's adjacent to a $350 million investment that the hospital is making. So I do believe that it is, I think it's prudent to just consider how uniquely situated this one is for the city in the long term.

I'm going to agree with that. And that's also part of my reservations. This is probably the best piece of ground you can find in that proximity to the Adventure Center and to downtown, for that matter. So whatever it is that goes there, I want it to be something first class.

Which would be part of the development agreement discussion as well. Yes, sir. DAVID BURRAGE. Final thoughts, council?

Yeah, my sole reservation is on the incentive side. I can think of countless times where I've sat with developers and we've knocked on municipality doors and county doors where, you know, in South Carolina we have a track record of industrial or things that are going to bring jobs to a community as an incentive. And I can tell you many times where we've pitched retail and hospitality and we've got laughed out the room. And in this case, I just don't see a correlation between spending tax dollars to incentivize something where, like I said, if the incentives were off the table, you know, bring them on in, but knowing that there's a potential to incentivize something that one is not even in, if there is a retail component with grocery, it's not in a food desert. From hospitality side, it's gonna be lean on that end. There's not really a lot of community benefits to sell incentivizing something where this is our first contract added. And knowing that we purchased the property for 3.8, we're selling it for 3.5, heck, that's already a $300,000 incentive from the RIP. And so that's my reservation.

Let's stick to the plan. Mr. Duncan.

Mr. Erwood.

No.

Mr. Booker.

No.

Mr. Moffitt.

Yes.

Mr. Lander. No. Mr. Bettis.

Yes.

Mr. Lamb.

No.

Mayor Danner.

Yes. Council, let's move on to items of new business this evening. First of which is the award recommendation for the Sports and Events Center furniture package. The City of Greer, in collaboration with the architectural firm at Midland, Paz and Smith, have developed a comprehensive furniture package to support operations at the Sports and Events Center located at 1529 South Highway 14. Furniture package will be purchased through vendors participating in the state term contracts and cooperative contracts with Sourcewell and TIPS as permitted by our code of ordinance. Staff recommends that the furniture package price of $684,913 be approved by Council. Funding for this project will come from the Corporation for Greer Fund. Adam Forringer joins us for this conversation. The floor is yours, sir.

Yes, thank you, Mayor and Council. So you should have in your packet before you a proposal for the furniture package for the Sports and Events Center. We have worked diligently to finalize this, to bring before you a lot of back and forth with the architectural team, with McMillan, Paz, and Smith. We went room by room through the facility to identify what is the essential need for the complex to operate. And as you mentioned, From there, we wanted to make sure that we were getting competitive pricing on everything. So everything in the packet is a state-turned-contract or cooperative program. So with that, I know there's a lot of items in that packet. I did have a couple that I wanted to just give you a glimpse of tonight. We're not going to look through every single item piece by piece, but I just wanted to show you some of the high volume, big ticket items in the facilities so you have a glimpse of what that final product will look like. So first and foremost, I wanted to give you a demonstration of what the gym equipment would be as far as the athletic chairs and the tables. This, for all intents and purposes, is going to be the most utilized piece of furniture on the property, also taking a lot of a beating. We did get to sample these chairs, and we were able to kick them around a good bit and make sure they were going to be durable and hold up over time. We did sample layouts of all the different courts with the equipment on it to ensure that the quantity was going to be the accurate number for a wide variety of events, athletics that we would be able to set up on the courts.

Next, I'll show you some of the office furniture. Again, this is just one of the big-ticket items, kind of straightforward with the office setup.

We're trying to keep it as simple as possible. This is for the main-level offices in the facility. There is one office on the lower level as well that's for our maintenance use. It actually has less furniture in that space as well. Then another high volume item will be the materials for the community room as this is a event driven space. Again, we went through multiple different sample layouts of banquet seating with circular tables, rectangle tables, lecture style seating. We wanted to make sure that we had adequate furniture to accommodate a wide variety of setups that we could host in that space. And then this one is the cafe seating.

So the main cafe as you come into the facility, you'll see a lot of seating in that space.

Just to give you a glimpse of some of the color schemes that we'll have throughout the facility, there's a lot of blues that are incorporated throughout the complex, a lot of natural wood as well. And then lastly, the bleachers. Bleachers are probably the largest line item on this proposal. This is our court side seating, or on court seating, excuse me. There is fixed seating around the perimeter of the hardwood courts, but these bleachers would allow us seating on the hardwoods. And again, we did multiple sample layouts to finalize that quantity to make sure that we were getting the appropriate amount. So that's all I have to show you tonight, but I stand for any questions.

For the purposes of discussion, I'll entertain a motion.

So moved.

And a second.

Second.

Board is open for discussion.

This amount is for all of the furniture and fixtures?

Correct. Yes, all the furniture in the facility.

At one point... And I don't know if it would be included in this budget or not, this portion of the budget. We talked about how this building is going to say, yes, this is Greer. And I think it came out that one of the ways we were going to do that is with photographs of athletics that have occurred over time in Greer. Will any of those dollars be used for that?

So that will be in the signage package, which is included in the GMB. Yes, sir.

This is specifically, for lack of a better term, if you could turn the building upside down and shake it out, everything will fall out, is here. This is furniture fixtures. This is not... Stuff like the things we're talking about where we've done permanent signage on the walls or artwork or whatever. That is not considered in this package. Okay, so that's in a separate. That is different.

Rear athletics over the years. In the, what we're talking, the other budget we're talking about.

That is completely separate, yes. What you're talking about is not considered in this item. But it's considered in another. Yes, that is all part of the other stuff.

Okay. The, how is this pricing? Achieved. Do we have bidders or how is this?

Everything is priced through state term contract and cooperative program. So it's already been through the competitive bidding process.

So we just choose from that list?

Correct. We shopped everything that we needed for the facility from the state term list.

There's a couple items on here that I'm a little bit concerned about. There's, especially on the exterior equipment, pretty hefty price tag for, I think it was six picnic benches that were like $7,000 a piece. And they're actually, when you look them up, they are just regular old, I mean, that's them. Just wooden picnic bench.

Yeah, so every piece of material, especially the picnic fences, it is commercial grade, so it will last over time. And, again, this is from the state-term contracts that we are permitted to use through our ordinance. Okay. And I will say, you know, the first proposal that we received was nearly a million dollars, and so we worked very aggressively to bring that down.

On the courtside bleachers, I see there's wheels on them. Are those movable?

Yes, those ones are movable since they are intended to sit on the hardwood surface.

So that way we're able to adjust depending on what the event is. And do we have enough storage to move all of those for some kind of whatever event it might be? Do we have enough storage for that?

Yes, we do have some options, and as we did the test fits of the facility, we looked at the potential of what if someone wants no bleachers in here. So we have worked through that as a solution. Great.

Can you go back to your banquet slide, please? That banquet chair right there. It's one of the largest line items, actually, in your proposal. There it $200, what was it, $280 a piece or something like that? Is that, I don't know. I don't shop furniture enough, I guess.

Seems like a lot of money. I would say for a quality piece that will last, it's going to have a lot of abuse, that's not bad. Okay. I stand corrected.

How much for those weren't cheap?

$280, $200.

No, but the ones sitting out there. Oh, these? I have no idea. I got one question.

OK, they look the same, actually.

OK, the folding chairs, why aren't those chairs also? Why don't you go fold it all the way around?

With the community room, there are some events that we are recruiting currently that are a little bit higher scale. We do have the potential to run corporate luncheons, family reunions, banquets, things of that nature in this space. We wanted to be an elevated space rather than just sticking gym equipment in here.

was the original budget for furniture just curious i think we were somewhere in that um 800 to a million dollar range early or early on some of the earlier estimates for that budget but this was this is being funded not from where's the funding from this coming yeah

Other comments? One final question that I have. We talked about picnic tables. One of the things I really like about this building is our patio outside and that we have the fixed tables and they have the, I guess they're keep sunshine off. Did we look at any of that for outdoors? So we actually have a covered plaza on the front of the facility. It's about 7,000 square feet.

So there are similar carousel tables that will go under the covered plaza. So they don't need their own umbrella structure. They'll be under shade.

Sounds good. It is. Yeah. Right.

That's good. But those are attached out there. Yeah, those are heavy, yeah.

So I'll just ask, what would our expected lifespan be on a table like this for use at a facility such as ours?

Yeah, it depends on the table. Easy.

and the number of the stuff that we had.

I asked that for that reason, right?

Having owned a business with outdoor space that we wanted to put seating at, I can tell you we spent 500 bucks for a little cheap because we needed multiple and we were a poor small business. We spent 500 bucks for something that was going to last maybe a couple seasons being used.

So appreciate that explanation.

To Jay's point, to Mr. Erwood's point, are we cutting any corners?

We feel confident in the package just before you that these are high-quality products. Again, all state-term contracts. They are competitively priced. And as I mentioned earlier, we went through room by room to ensure that we had the essentials of what we need to operate at a high level.

Questions? Questions. Comments? Further discussion? Hearing none, Ms. Duncan.

Mr. Arrowood? Yes. Mr. Booker? Yes. Mr. Hopper? Yes. Mr. Lander? Yes. Mr. Bettis? Yes. Mr. Lamb? Yes. Mayor Daniels?

Yes. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Next item under new business is the first reading of ordinance number 22-2026. This is an ordinance to change the zoning classification of certain properties owned by Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Jesus Christ located at Victor Street and 403 Arlington Road from commercial, general, and medium density residential to office professional. Ms. Stahl joins us for this discussion. The floor is yours.

Good evening. Yes, this is a rezoning request for two parcels. They are located off of Arlington Road. The existing zoning is commercial corridor on the one that is directly on Arlington Road, and then there's one in the rear that is zoned medium density residential. This also has a downtown entryway overlay on the property if they combine both parcels once they're rezoned.

THAT DOWNTOWN ENTRYWAY OVERLAY WILL EXTEND OVER BOTH OF THEM.

THEIR REQUEST IS TO REZONE TO OFFICE PROFESSIONAL IN ORDER TO EXPAND THE CHURCH. HERE'S THE AREAL OF THE PROPERTY. IT'S ABOUT 2.04 ACRES. HERE'S THE ZONING MAP. THE PINK IS COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR AND THE BROWN IS MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND THE RED ACROSS THE STREET IS COMMERCIAL GENERAL. THE FUTURE LAND USE IN THE AREA IS TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD. And here is a photo of the existing conditions of the site. Once again, their request is to rezone to office professional.

The surrounding zoning and land uses are commercial with some residential to the rear. This is consistent with our comprehensive plan.

So staff recommends approval and Planning Commission also recommended approval.

Council, for the purpose of further discussion, this comes with a staff recommendation. Do I hear a motion to receive?

So moved. Second.

The floor is open for discussion.

I missed what you said about the intended use for the property.

Back up a little bit. So they are planning on doubling the size of the existing church, and then they're going to add some parking in the rear.

And the office development, that's just because churches are...

They're allowed by right in an office. Oh, they are? And it's a little bit less intensively used than commercial general, so we recommend it office professional.

On this particular facility, with the expansion, are they going to have to, I know there's enhanced requirements in that overlay, are they going to bring everything up to, or is this a new portion?

80% of the facade has to be brick or stone, or they can do cementitious siding or wood or stucco. So yes, the new addition will have to include that. while hopefully matching what's there already.

Maybe the city could go out there and fix the sidewalks as well.

Ms. Duncan, just for note, the last item in the agenda packet is not related to this. This is a zoning request from suburban neighborhood to traditional neighborhood by Red Cedar Construction.

Oh, that's the next item.

Yeah, I think they got mixed up here.

That's yeah, it's from the minutes.

Yeah, the minutes before the next item, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. That little carve-out piece on the back, that was a different zoning?

Yes, that is medium-density residential right now.

But it's all under the same?

It's all owned by the church.

Okay. But I'm going to be changed and put under the same parcel?

I believe so. The architect is here. Yes, she said yes. Okay. They're planning to combine it.

I don't know what that area is. We've had several rezonings down there where you had one parcel land, had two or three zonings on it.

Yeah.

Things happen.

Others? Questions? Comments? Further discussion? Hearing none, Ms. Duncan.

Mr. Erwood. Yes. Mr. Booker. Yes. Mr. Hoffman. Yes. Mr. Lander. Yes. Mr. Bettis. Yes. Mr. Lamb. Yes. Mayor Danner.

Yes. Thank you. Council, third item before us this evening is the first reading of ordinance number 23-2026. This is an ordinance to change the zoning classification of a certain property owned by E. O'Reilly Bettis located on Jackson Street from suburban neighborhood to traditional neighborhood. Ms. Stahl joins us for this discussion. Mr. Bettis will need to recuse himself at this point.

I do. I do already.

Have you submitted the paperwork? Yes, I have. All right. With that then, since this matter pertains to him, he will not enter into the conversation in regards to item number three. For the purpose of further discussion, I hear a motion to receive.

So moved.

And second.

Second.

With that, then, the floor, well, I guess I should have gone ahead and let you give us a description. We've got a motion and a second at this point, so if you want, go right ahead.

Very well. So this is a rezoning request for one parcel on Jackson Street. The parcel is currently zoned suburban neighborhood, and the request is to rezone to traditional neighborhood. Here's the aerial of the property. It is about 0.28 acres and directly across from City Stadium. Here's the zoning map. The property is currently suburban neighborhood, but you can see there is traditional neighborhood to the north. The future land use is traditional neighborhood. Here's a photo of existing conditions at the site. Once again, the request is to rezone to traditional neighborhood. It is surrounded by residential and city stadium. The request is consistent with our comprehensive plan. Therefore, staff recommends approval and planning commission also recommended approval.

With that, then, we will proceed. It does come with the staff recommendation for approval. Mr. Bettis has recused himself. We have a motion and a second. The floor is open for discussion.

I've got to ask this. Mr. Bettis, your intended use of this property sits its traditional neighborhood.

Mr. Bettis is not included in this conversation, but we will assume so.

Well, honestly, you want to put a vape shop there? Is that what you're saying?

Actually, there's a guy named, what is it? W. Riley-Bettis is trying to sell this, not E. Riley-Bettis. Others. This, oh, this, okay. The surveys. It doesn't point north. It threw me off for a second. The lot sizes would be roughly, What was it?

It's 0.28 acres.

0.28 acres that they're trying to make a lot A, lot B. So two lots. The parcels behind it are what size? I can't really see it on the survey. Roughly around the same size.

They're about the same size, about 5,000 square feet.

OK.

Others? Comments? Questions? Hearing none, Ms. Duncan?

Mr. Erwood? Yes. Mr. Booker? Yes. Mr. Hopper?

Yes.

Mr. Lander?

Yes.

Mr. Lamb? Yes. Mayor Tanner?

Yes.

Just looking at that.

Let's move to item number four, which is the first reading of ordinance number 24-2026, an ordinance authorizing the conveyance of an easement in certain real property in the city of Greer.

Ms. James.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. This is a request to pay a utility easement to Greer Commission of Public Works over city-owned property at the Sports and Events Center for the purpose of bringing natural gas to the site. The easement is roughly located on the southwest corner of the site, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

With that then, for the purpose of further discussion, I'll entertain a motion to receive. So moved. Second. And second. Floor is open.

This is the final utility easement we have. We've got sewer out there. This is the final easement.

That's correct.

This is bringing gas to the center, right? That's correct.

OK. Others? Questions? Comments? Discussion? Hearing none, Ms. Duncan?

Mr. Erwood? Yes. Mr. Booker? Yes. Mr. Hopper? Yes. Mr. Lander? Yes. Mr. Bettis? Yes. Mr. Lamb? Yes. Mayor Danner?

Yes. Item number five, council, first reading of ordinance. Thank you, Ms. James. First reading of ordinance number 29-2026. This is an ordinance amending the text of the City of Greer Unified Development Ordinance pertaining to electronic message board and digital display signage. This is in reference to digital display standards. Mr. Cahill joins us for this discussion. The floor is yours, sir.

Mr. Mayor, if I may, just to give a little bit of background on why, as we're discussing this, I know typically what we've done over the last year and a half or so is bring UDO amendments in bulk to council to consider. In this particular case, the question was asked by council. pertaining to the Sports and Events Center about the signage that was initially planned to be the monument sign or whatever out in front of the Sports and Events Center. There seemed to be some interest from council on a digital display board and the current regulations were far too restrictive. And so in order to do that, we needed to do a UDO text amendment. And so what I would ask council to consider Is this UDO text amendment in the realm of understanding that this is specific to everything within that particular zoning district? So the question is not predicated specifically on the signage of sports and vet center, but allowing it under the UDO. And that's, I'm going to ask Mr. Cahill now to take it from there, but I wanted to give that a little bit of context before we got started.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Honorable Counsel. This amendment does two things before you tonight. The first thing it does is removes the older general provisions on changeable copy and electronic message boards from Section 522. And the second, it adds a new set of standards and digital display requirements and putting them in the correct place in the ordinance so it reads more easily and cleanly for both applicants and staff. More importantly, though, tonight it modernizes the standards themselves. Our current provisions predate today's display technology, and they say very little about brightness, design quality, and where the signs can go. This new language in the amendments before you tonight helps keep the protections that we already have. So no video, no animation, and a minimum 10 second hold between messages, which is a standard kind of across this space and across jurisdictions. And then it goes above and beyond by adding objective limits that the current code lacks, such as automatic dimming, 10 second, sorry, automatic dimming, daytime and nighttime brightness caps, and a requirement that the sign goes dark or static if it malfunctions, which is also a standard across jurisdictions. It also includes setbacks from signalized intersections and site triangles, which we already know are best practices, but were not in our ordinance, and then a requirement that the display be built into a finished, architecturally integrated monument sign with landscaping at its base. We in the ordinance you'll see that the display sizes are tiered by district and so in the regional center district by site scale the current five acres or less would allow the 32 square feet and then anything five acres or more would allow 64 square feet and So the second tier is reserved for larger developments.

This amendment also recognizes that digital drive-through menu boards as a standard feature were treated slightly differently, and so we have carved those out as well.

If you see in the beginning of the red line version, you can see that the sidewalks and windows were the only two sign types that we had under other signs, and we are including digital electronic messaging signs so we can have some clear performance standards around them. including those architectural features around the cabinets and then a stronger landscaping require around the base. The Planning Commission did hold a public hearing on July 20th and voted four to one to recommend approval. Staff does find that this amendment is consistent with the Comprom Plan's goals for high-quality commercial corridors. We do recommend approval of it as presented in Exhibit B. I am available to answer any questions tonight, but I did want to go ahead and pull up some of the changes on the screen for you. If you did notice, and I promised Tammy I would say this, we have a new vendor. The UDO is now online as part of our, just like our code of ordinances. So they do have some requirements on how we structure that. So if you're looking at the redlined and clean version, it looks different to the council members that have been here for a long time. The reason is we have some new requirements. So you'll see that anything underlined or red is a new insertion. Anything that has a strikethrough is a deletion. And if you see three asterisks anywhere, that means something was omitted for brevity, but it stands as it is. So we are proposing changing Section E. SECTION 2, 522D, DRIVE-THROUGH SIGNS. WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING THAT THE DRIVE-THROUGH SIGNS GET BIGGER. WE JUST PULLED THEM OUT SO THEY WOULDN'T FALL UNTO THE STANDARDS OF A REGIONAL CENTER COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR MONUMENT SIGN. WE'RE ALSO GOING AHEAD AND PROPOSING SOME ADDITIONAL PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, LIKE I SAID, AND I'M HAPPY TO TALK TO ANY OF THOSE THAT Y'ALL MIGHT HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT.

AND SO WITH THAT, I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

Thank you, sir. For the purpose of discussion, I'll entertain a motion to receive.

So moved.

One of those needs to be a second, please.

Seconded.

Board is open for discussion.

Can you repeat the part you said about the acreage?

Yes, so anything five acres or less in regional center only could have up to the 32 square feet, and that's what the current ordinance says.

Anything five acres or more could allow up to 64 square feet.

We currently have two parcels that are zoned regional center, and so anything that would be rezoned to regional center would allow this as well in the future.

Okay, does it say anything about materials of construction? I guess it is null and void because it has to be zoned this way, okay. And then you had a note on there about 50% of the sign can be changeable?

Correct, versus the static cabinetry and monument sign.

Okay, all right. That way it's not just a video screen. Yeah, makes sense.

But the 64 feet is the video screen.

That allows the entire sign that the video could go into the cabinetry.

So the video would be smaller. Video would be slightly smaller.

I think we're looking at 60 square feet.

If I may, and please correct me if I don't understand this, we're not talking about the architectural standards around it because there's still the height requirements and the width requirements, et cetera.

This is specific to the video board.

So the cabinetry itself that the video board would sit in is 64 square feet. By the time you take out that, you would have about 60 square feet of actual video board.

Mr. Mayor? Mr. Merriman, what was the steering committee, what was their thoughts?

The steering committee that has been charged with helping with the Sports and Events Center when asked about this in particular, with the understanding that the steering committee is not council and is not the planning commission, but if we look at it in a vacuum, they were to a person in favor of a video screen signage. Now, again, this is, that's a separate issue. This is the fundamental UDO question of, fourth and center side, is this an acceptable signage package? Okay. All right.

Assuming that we did, we're going to build one, I don't know that that's big enough to be seen from 14 and red.

This is going to be a six by 10. And I. It's pretty big.

It's pretty good. Yeah, it's.

It's not a Las Vegas.

There was somebody on the planning commission that voted against it. What was their opposition? Do we know? I'm reading through notes. I didn't see much about it.

Heather, you were at that meeting, I think. I can take this one over.

I believe that was Mr. Toma, and he was concerned about the size in the zoning districts.

Being too big.

Thank you. Others?

Questions? In application of future requests to get rezoned to, is it regional? What's it called? Regional center. Regional center. What are the considerations to approve something like that? Like if I've got a parcel and they want to say, well, I want to go from commercial to regional center. mainly because of the sign situation, what are our considerations, even if they don't say sign per se, what are our considerations to, because we've only got two parcels, so there's got to be some type of parameters there. Yes, great question, Mr. Booker.

So obviously it would be at Council's purview to approve that legislative rezoning. What we look at is the comprehensive plan, whether there's alignment with that in the future land use, and then staff would make a recommendation on whether that aligns with the future land use. We would not look at a sign per se by itself or the requirement to or the reason to have a sign as an accommodation. We look at the overall broad categories in the comprehensive plan and making sure that the suitability is appropriate.

I think it's important to point out, if I may, Mr. Gale and Mr. Booker, that even within the ordinance, there are still some requirements on that signage meeting, site triangle, and distance from a traffic signal, et cetera. This isn't a carte blanche for anybody that might get rezoned to a regional center to have a 60-square-foot sign if they're at six acres versus 4.99 acres. And I think that's an important distinction to bring to council's attention.

I'm assuming that this... These requirements that we are voting on to be changed or not, we're doing it because we would like to have a digital sign at the sports and rec facility. That is going to be freestanding? Yes. Okay. Now, let's assume that there's another... Can you mount a sign like that on the wall? If a structure... lent itself to that, not our development, but some other development. Can you put that 64 square feet on the wall?

We have the ordinance structured, and we feel very confident with how it reads and fits us so that it is only tied to a monument sign, so it has to be a freestanding sign structure.

But you're not precluded from other signs on the building, right?

Correct. It just can't be an electronic message sign. Right.

Why is that so bad, putting it on the building? I mean, the hospital or something like that.

I don't know that it's bad or good. It's just not in question right now on this particular matter with the UDO. If council at some point decided that they were interested in considering electronic signage affixed to a building, then that would be certainly something to discuss. But right now, that is not considered in this amendment.

And does it specifically just say one sign or?

Correct, yep, one sign.

Questions?

Comments? One last hypothetical. You know how you have these billboards that'll be digital? In theory, how would that be considered if they were wanting to locate something like that into regional commercial? Because I know the only other parcel there is a billboard sign right down the street that is digital. How does that play into it?

We feel strongly after looking at other cities' ordinances and how that's played out that we structure it with the monument sign requirements that we already have in our ordinance. It won't allow the construction of a billboard that doesn't meet the intent of the code at all.

Further discussion? Hearing none, Ms. Duncan.

Mr. Arrowood? Yes. Mr. Booker? Yes. Mr. Conner? Yes. Mr. Lander? Yes. Mr. Bettis? Yes. Mr. Lamb? Yes. Mayor Danner?

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir. The last item before us this evening, first and final reading of Resolution 20-2026. This is a resolution in consideration of a request for closure of a portion of an alley in the City of Greer and to refer the closure of the alley to the City Attorney pursuant to City Ordinance 78-11. Mr. Merriman joins us for that conversation.

Mr. Mayor, Council, thank you. From time to time, we will get requests for an alley closure, and this process is not dissimilar to this council that we did recently with the closure of the street adjacent to where we'll be doing the quiet crossings. This is simply a resolution kicking off the process. for the closure of the alley. What you're doing today with an affirmative vote is remanding this to the city attorney's office to begin his process, which will end in the drafting of an ordinance for council to consider.

For the purpose of discussion, I'll need a motion to proceed.

So moved.

Second. Floor is open.

So is it just the alleyway of the back of that house or the entire alleyway?

It is the section of the alleyway that is congruent with the parcel itself. So it is not the entire alleyway.

So who, if that section of the alleyway was closed, who would take ownership of that section?

It would be the property owner requesting, in this case, Mr. and Mrs. Bouchillon. Okay. If I pronounced that correctly.

I would assume that most of the other properties on this street would also want the same thing.

Sometimes it does start a little bit of a domino effect.

Now, this alley is directly between two houses on either side, one on Carolina, one on Virginia. Is there going to be a fight over who takes ownership of this?

No, sir.

It's always been kind of first come, first served. Okay.

What is the alleyways that haven't been given to property owners are the property of the city? So technically we have the responsibility for maintaining those. I know there's one place in Greer Mill that was actually an abandoned property. railroad spur that doesn't even exist on maps, but we went in and did the maintenance of it just because it... Has that ever become an issue? What do you mean an issue? Well, if you've got private property, like what they're requesting... then either side, we couldn't transverse that property unless we had their permission. Mr. Chair, that is actually a very good question.

However, I don't think we've contemplated that being a problem. And quite frankly, most of these alleyways, if it weren't for property owners maintaining it, they're virtually inaccessible anyway. So to answer your question, if you've got parcel A, parcel B that we deed over, and then parcel C, and we've got an issue on parcel C, how do we get to parcel C? We would just have to get permission from the property owner to get over there.

And the other thing is, it's not for the city, but I'm assuming that most utilities no longer are down those alleyways.

um but do we look into that see if there's utilities yeah yes sir that's part of that's the part of the city attorney's um charge and part of the ordinance itself is to notify any utilities of our intent to close and for them to have a period of objection

And there are still some. There are. There was one where they had a tree fall. We did have that. On a citizen's property. The tree came out of CPW's. They had a claim to the land where it came from back there. Okay. Down in Great Mill. Mm-hmm.

Again, this action today does not close that section of the alley. This is just a resolution to begin the process.

Others? Questions? Comments? Further discussion? Hearing none, Ms. Duncan.

Mr. Everwood?

Yes.

Mr. Booker? Yes. Mr. Hobart? Yes. Mr. Lander? Yes. Mr. Bates? Yes. Mr. Lamb? Yes. Mayor Danner?

Yes. Council, we have no items in executive session. It's adjourned.