Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Tuesday, October 22nd, 2025 of the city of Wainsboro Planning Commission. Uh, vice chair, would you please lead us in the pledge? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Uh, we have adoption of the agenda. We have a motion. I'll make a motion. Second. I'll second. All in favor of adopting the agenda, say I. I.

Opposed? Hearing none. The motion carries. First on the agenda, we have consideration of a letter of support for the city of Wsboro's city of Wesboro's Virginia Bridge preservation bundle project application for the US Department of Transportation bridge investment program.

Yes. So, public works has is applying for the federal bridge investment program discretionary grant to the US Department of Transportation. Um, and this is for funding to repair six bridges across the city that have been identified as being in poor or trending poor condition. Uh, two of the six bridges are currently posted with weight restrictions. And if this application is successful, the grant would provide funds to repair all six bridges and extend their lifespans by approximately 15 to 20 years. Um and the bridge investment program is a competitive competitive discretionary program focusing on existing bridges to reduce the overall number of bridges that are in poor condition or currently in fair condition at risk of falling into poor condition. Um so public uh works has requested sports resolution support from the planning commission to submit with their grant application which is due first.

Which bridges? I was just thinking of that. I have an email. Do you have it? I do. Okay. Um, so the six bridges are uh first two are in Hopen Parkway. One is over the North Southern Railroad. The other is over the South River. Uh the third is on Second Street over the South River and then Wayne Avenue and it goes over the South River, Lynhurst Road over the South River and then Roser Avenue over Pratz Run. Those are the six. Uh what are the plans for the Hakes Bridge on Fourth Street? Is is that going to be reopened again?

So I would have to check with public works. I believe they are working on putting in a grant application. Um and if my memory serves, I don't want to misspeak, but I believe they were looking at making it a pedestrianon. Yes. Um bridge. Yeah. There's no immediate plan to because I think that if I remember correctly, the height is an issue and that would have to be addressed. Um there was a lot of things that uh would have to be done that would be cost prohibitive, but they were going to make it a pedestrian crossing versus um vehicle.

Okay. Well, that won't change the height though, would it? I mean, that's that still would be an issue even with a being a pedestrian bridge. I think the height requirement was only if it was a vehicular bridge, but if they're just putting I think a a pedestrian access way, they didn't have the same restrictions. Yes. Okay. Yeah. All right. Did everybody have a chance to review? They were in our packet, the resolution and the letter. Yes. Anybody have any feedback about the resolution and the letter as they're drafted? No. All right. Um, do we want to do we need to vote for on me to I know we need to vote on the resolution.

I think you could just make a motion to approve both. Okay. Do we have a motion to approve both of these documents? I'll make a motion to approve both documents as they are. I'll second. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Hearing none. The motion carries. All right. You want me to sign those after? Yes. be great.

All right. Uh, next on the agenda, we have the staff presentation on historic districts [Music] with our thanks for educating us on this subject. Okay. So, I thought we start first with a little bit of history, provide a little bit of background for the historic history. Um so in the 19th century uh there was a growing interest in protecting historic structures such as Independence Hall in Philadelphia along with homes of famous Americans like Mount Vernon and then the Montichello. Um so those started to be protected and then interest continued to grow into the early to mid 19th centuries with people starting to consider the historic value of groups of buildings and then whole communities. Um Notable examples of this was the work to protect and restore colonial Williamsburg in the 20s and then the designations of the first local historic districts in Charleston, South Carolina and then the old French Quarter in New Orleans in the 1930s. And then there were also the losses of historic buildings. Uh one of the most notable of which you'll find is New York City's historic Penn Station that was demolished in 1965. And this provided additional momentum for that historic preservation movement. This came to the head to a head in 1966 with the enactment of the National Historic Preservation Act which authorized the creation of the National Register of Historic Places. That same year in Virginia, they created the Virginia Landmarks Commission which is now known as the Department of Historic Resources along with creating the Virginia Landmarks Register. So getting into a little more detail on

historic registers themselves and this is focusing specifically on Virginia. In Virginia, the Department of Historic Resources, DHR, oversees both the National Register of Historic Places on behalf of the National Park Service as Virginia's designated state historic preservation office and all states have one and also the Virginia Landmarks Register. Their mission is to foster encourage and support the stewardship of Virginia's significant historic architectural and cultural resources. And so historic registers offer honorary designations to historic sites which include uh historic districts, battlefields, archaeological sites and buildings along with various other types of historic properties. Per DHR, these designations provide permanent documentation of irreplaceable historic resources and encourages their continued preservation. Um, it is important to remember that listing on a n on the national or the Virginia uh register alone does not um protect the property and of itself. It doesn't impose any additional restrictions on property owners. purely honorary. The listing itself permits the use of historic tax credits both at the state level and also at the federal level along with other grants and programs meant to um help land owners protect and rehabilitate the property.

When properties are being considered for nomination to a historic register, they face three questions. Has it achieved historical significance at least 50 years ago? the building 50 years or older. Does it have physical integrity? And then does it meet at least one of four register criteria? We go into more detail all this next. So to qualify for listing in the historic register DHR evaluates the property significance and in American history, architecture, archaeology, engineering or culture that is found to be present in districts, sites, buildings, structures and objects possessing the integrity of location, design, setting, setting materials, workmanship, feeling or association. In addition to having that sign significance and having integrity, it also meet one at least of at least four register criteria. And these will probably seem familiar to you based on the COA applications you've seen. The first is that it must be associated with a historically significant event or pattern of events. The second is that it must be associated with a person significant in our past. The third is that it must possess distinctive architecture or engineering or be the work of a master or possess high artistic value or be a distinguishable entity such as a historic district. And then finally, it must have information potential for history or prehistory. So it must meet so property must be at least one of those four. So properties being considered um we're listing them they have to meet at least one of those four as I just said but they also have to have the integrity in order to have significance as defined by the national register to

qualify to meet all those criteria. So to delve a little bit into historic preservation planning itself it generally has four steps. The first is to conduct an inventory of the community's historic resources. This would include background research to determine what significant historic resources might be present along with a field survey to document their distribution and condition. The second step would be to conduct a planning process. This could be part of a larger comprehensive plan update which includes a chapter on historic preservation or as a standalone plan. The plan or comp plan chapter would lay out the policies, strategies, goals, and objectives for future historic preservation activities. It also serves as an important resource to educate the public about the value of protecting and preserving the community's history. The next step would be the development of a historic preservation ordinance that would then become part of the community's code with the final step being outreach to the public emphasizing the value of protecting the community's resources and future plans in that regard. So once you finish the planning process, the development of the historic preservation ordinance is to be a next step. Um there might there might be additional state requirements uh for a historic preservation ordinance, but generally speaking, best practices say they should include the purpose statement, the process for designating historic buildings and districts. Provide for the creation and appointment of a historic review board, the process for certificate of appropriateness for de for demolition, relocation, exterior renovations, or additions. contributing

structures, the adoption of historic district guide design guidelines, which are usually a separate document from the ordinance itself, and then finally any maintenance standards, including any permitted exceptions. The most common exceptions um are for economic hardships that are being experienced by the property owner. And then some ordinances also include incentives for property owners to maintain or renovate their buildings. So, in Virginia, in addition to those best practices, Virginia code includes a couple additional requirements that localities must include in their ordinances. Um, the most important of these is to include two options for land owners that are denied a COA to demolish a historic building by the localities governing board. The first option is the ability to appeal that decision to locality circuit court within 30 days. The section second option is for the land owner to put the property up to up for sale for a buyer willing to preserve the property. So, Virginia code has specific guidelines on the time period that property has to be on the market based on the uh listing price that is reasonably related to fair market value. If no property owner is found within that aotted time and the land owner provides documentation supporting this to the locality, then they must be permitted to demolish the property. [Music] Moving on to review boards. So review boards have the responsibility for overseeing the historic preservation ordinance and they are generally speaking called the historic preservation commission or an architectural review board which is also known as an ARB. ARBs can be created through the historic preservation ordinance and are

responsible for the review and approval of certificate applications along with um identifying other historic properties and potentially districts. The local's governing body usually appoints members to this board and it's important that it members have expertise in a field related to historic preservation such as architecture, architectural history, history, real estate, building or archaeology. And of note, found out recently that ACU is intending to offer a certified ARV training in the near future, which could be helpful as well. Now for design guidelines there are generally speaking two types of design guidelines that locality uses. One is the historic district design guidelines and then the other is architectural design guidelines. Historic district design guidelines are intended to preserve the existing historic character of a structure or district and they are usually derived from styles that have been documented within that district. Architectural design guidelines are more about providing guidance on what the overall development should look like within a specified area such as our entrance course.

Nope. So with that slide, I think the purpose that we wanted to highlight because I think it can get confusing is that the process is very similar, but a historic district design guidelines would be very much about matching existing historic character. While you could follow a similar process with an ARB in a non-historic district like an entrance corridor or like any designated area to define certain materials, colors, aesthetics that you would like to see that are unrelated to historic preservation, but the process is very similar. [Music] to dive into a little deeper in historic district design guidelines. Uh these set out the criteria for determining appropriate or inappropriate alterations to historic structures based on the structures historical style or the overall character of the district. They typically address uh elements like style, color, materials, in some cases landscaping elements. They are usually based on the US Secretary of Interior's standards for rehabilitation. Uh and those standards provide guidelines for making compatible alterations to historic structures while preserving their significant features to ensure that any changes maintain the property's historic, cultural, and architectural values. However, since they are national standards, they're general nature. So, it's always important for a community to make um modifications as they see fit to ensure that the design guidelines fit the specific needs of that community in that specific historic district. Um, for new construction or non-conforming buildings that are within a historic district, the guidelines should include a list of elements with a mix of mandatory and optional elements that the building should incorporate to help ensure that they conform as well as possible to the historic character of the neighborhood.

But the guidelines should also consider costs to both developer or property owner um with any of the requirements. who determines those um guidelines for the community? The generally speaking um from what I read, the community tends to hire a consultant and they work with that consultant to design the guidelines for their community.

Like just as an example, so Stanton has a lot of historic districts and they have very detailed guidelines. I want to say it was like a over 100page document that goes into detail and so they had a consultant. and I'm blanking on the name Frasier and Associates I believe that is very experienced in architectural design um and historic elements that created that for them. So it was working with a consultant to identify what those guidelines look like. I mean there are places where they have paint chips in their guidelines. Sure. Color details. These are the colors you can use.

Can you or can you not replace your windows? Can you you know metal roofs? can you replace? So, there's lots of you could get extremely in the weeds or not. It's all depending on kind of that balance. But, um, yeah, if you ever want to look at an example, Stan has a very big detailed, um, design guideline document. [Music]

Okay. And the last thing I want to highlight uh broadly regarding historic district is to touch on um property owner concerns. Um concerns by property owners that could come up regarding historic district requirements include um potential impacts to their property values, burdens placed on them by the design guidelines, and then also the process for getting any plan changes that they want to do to their property approved. concerns about maintenance costs for historic buildings that in some case may be too much for a property owner or more than the property is actually worth. Um, and this is again where uh community engagement is important especially when you're in the development phase of the historic preservation ordinance or the historic design historic district design guidelines um or if any significant changes are being considered. So part of this outreach is to help the community understand what's being done and and why it's important, but then also helping them understand what those requirements are through various means. Um, and it's also helpful if localities provide information about where land owners could potentially go for financial assistance to be able to do to to take care of their properties such as the tax credits or other options. So, having gone through all that, I'd like to touch on Wayne's Historic Districts and it's um ordinance. But prior to that, are there any other questions before diving into that? So Wesboro has three historic districts and all three are listed in the National Register and also the Virginia Landmarks Register. Um that's just the cover page for the

nomination forms and they are the Port Republic Road Historic District, the downtown historic district and then also the Tree Streets historic district. So the Port Republic Historic district was established in 2001 and they were all three established around the same time. It has 85 contributing structures and the majority of those were residential buildings that were built between 1870 and 1951. Downtown historic district has 42 contributing structures and most of those were constructed between 1806 and 1951. And then finally, the Tree Street's historic district has 454 contri contributing structures with the majority of those being residential buildings built between 1890 and 1950. So, I thought I would compare Wesboro's current uh historic preservation overlay ordinance to both to the best practices, but then also to what specific requirements the state has. Um so, first uh ways ordinance does have the purpose statement. It does have the process by which historic buildings and district should be should be or can be designated. It also has a COA process for demolition, relocation, but it does not process for exterior renovations or additions for contributing structures in historic district. It also contains a one statement that the owners of historic landmarks or contributing historic buildings should not allow them to fall into a state of disrepair that endangers their physical integrity or public health and safety. Other than that statement, there are no additional maintenance standards or exceptions in our ordinance. We also do not have any language about the creation and appointment of a historic review

board. And then we also do not have the adoption of historic district guidelines which would typically be that separate documents. I have questions. So um the process by which the buildings and districts are designated that's not something that we're have we just never seen one of those or is that something staff is do would do? So that is identified in our ordinance. It is as a specific process. Yes. And I and and so my understanding at this point, so you know, if we were going to carry forward and and and um add some additions to our ordinance,

um you know, we have the districts designated. Certainly if someone came forward and said, you know, hey, I think there's another district within Wesboro, we we have outlined kind of the process by which you do that and it mostly follows what's required by state code. State code actually requires us to follow a specific. So it's reiterating what's required by state but there's no I mean does it require any buyin by the um council or the planning commission? The city council may designate the local landmark. So it has to be done by city council, right? Yeah.

All right. And then my second question is um so the u enforcement of the maintenance standards such that they are in the existing ordinance is going to fall under normal zoning enforcement. Like there's no

it would fall under normal property maintenance at this point. Um you know that comes up a lot is like that statement that you see there is pretty vague. um should not allow them to fall into a state of disrepair that endangers their physical integrity or public health and safety. So the bar is pretty low. You know, it's not really about the aesthetic at that point. But yes, it is just falling under our general property maintenance at this time. Well, but and I guess so for example, the application that we had not long ago where we had one that was in pretty tough shape, there's an argument to be made that you know that one was pretty close to that standard. That was certainly the argument I think that they made to some extent. But leaving just as an by using that as an example, I mean there's really until a permit gets pulled to do work on a structure. There's no way to know if it's falling down inside.

Yeah. I mean mostly it would be if there was a complaint or if um you typically complaint basis. So if someone says, "Hey, I look at this building. It looks like it's got cracks in the foundation." Someone goes out and takes a look at it building official and makes that determination. But it's my just my experience working here in the city and with our building official that that property that came forward in the tree streets recently was not one that he felt like got to the bar of it was somehow dangering public's health and safety like eminently about to fall into a public right of way is kind of almost the standard that that statement creates. Yeah.

And and so typically it's just is it boarded up? Can people not get into it? and is it secure and not going to danger the public if it falls. So, if we wanted to have more teeth, we certainly need to amend the ordinance to reflect that. Yeah. And I was thinking more I mean, I don't remember the specifics out of hand of that application, but my recollection is that part of the argument for demolition there was that the modifications that preceded what they wanted to do had rendered it basically structurally exceptionally challenging. I think their argument also was economical,

right? So my question is I guess there's no way to catch that if there's for example in that example the part of the explanation for how it got where it was was there had been a lot of unpermitted work done. Yeah. Sure. So if there's a bunch of unpermitted work being done on the interior of a historic uh contributing structure, we're never it's never going to get caught. Yeah. Probably. Okay. That's I just wanted to make sure we understood that clear clearly. Thank you.

I got a question. U as far as does a homeowner have the right if their home is located within a historic district within the boundaries. Do they have the right to say, "Well, I don't want to be part of that." Or do they are they they automatically they're since they're located there, they don't have any choice?

Yeah, I mean it it depends on what gets in the ordinance. So, as Alisanne mentioned in the beginning, if there if it's listed in the historic register as the district, it's just honorary. So, it could be left at that. It could just be an honorary thing and there's no teeth at that point and the property owner could do whatever they want within the honorary district. But if a locality chooses to create an ordinance the same way we do with zoning that puts certain restrictions on the property within the district, they have no unless the ordinance is written to allow exemptions by plea and council approval or something to that effect. If the ordinance isn't written to allow them to opt out, then no, they would be required to meet the ordinance. So, it's all on how your ordinance is drafted. And Wesbur's current ordinance does not allow any kind of exemption other than they come and request a certificate of appropriateness if they want to demolish and that gets granted by the planning commission.

And if denied, there is remedy within state code that they can appeal to the circuit court or they can list their property for sale to someone who is interested in rehabilitating it. And if it's listed for certain amounts of time and they don't get an offer, then they do have the remedy to tear down if denied by the locality.

Yeah. And and I think the specific challenge here is how do you not how do you prevent one of the specific challenges that I see here is how do you prevent all right, I've got this, let's say, exceptionally valuable piece of real estate that has a historic structure in it that I'm not really interested in because it's way more valuable with a townhouse or McDonald's on it. So I just let it fall into a state of disrepair until it's gets so bad that it can be demolished is sort of where I see potentially a little bit of a hole in the addressing the negligence.

Yeah. So so I mean that's where to some extent I think there may be a little bit of a loophole in the ordinance. Whether that's something we feel like we need to address necessarily in how specifically we're going to address that remains to be seen. Um, but that's the, you know, because you can't just opt out because the city has said this is a, you know, for whatever reason, this is a, the architecture in this neighborhood is valuable, right? If I buy a house in the tree streets, I can't just tear it down and put condos up because his contributing structure in historic district. If you could just opt out, sort of render the entire historic district, the notion of the historic district sort of meaningless if it didn't have any teeth. But what's to prevent me then from saying, "Okay, fine. I'm doing nothing with this property. I'm going to ignore it. You know, there's going to be holes in the roof. There's going to be whatever. And until it gets and I'm just going to let it get so bad that you basically can't be saved, and then I'll have a basis to come to the planning commission, get a certificate of appropriateness for it, and just demolish it and build what I wanted to build anyways. Other than, you know, it takes time um to for it to fall into that level of disrepair. But that's, you know, among several of the I think concerns that led us to this discussion. um that I had at least. And so the last slide just covering what how our our ordinance compares to Virginia code requirements. Um Virginia code does require that a certain process for the identification, inventory of all landmarks, buildings, and structures that are being considered for inclusion in a district. Ordinance does does have that. Um, however, our ordinance falls a little short in the other requirements as far as what lenders can

do once they've been denied the COA to demolish um a historic property. Our ordinance currently allows them to appeal the planning commission's decision to city council within 30 days. And then also it does include that clause about um offering the property for sale according to Virginia requirements. Um and if no offer is received then the they're allowed to demolish the property. So our ordinance has that but it does not contain um the ability to appeal uh locality's decision to the to the circuit court within 30 days. So, it is missing. Yeah. The statute's going to trump the ordinance.

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if when they said city council it was a mistake or if that's maybe what it said back originally, but that it was drafted. I don't remember. What's the penalty for violating this ordinance? I don't I assume it's 20. It's a up to a $2,500 fine. I think the max statuto fine. I I'm not sure a penalty is specifically written in. I'm I'm not to say there isn't one, but I don't think it's specifically written into the historic district section. I mean, at some point that it's going to be an economic analysis to Yeah. You know, where you're just going to do it anyways, even though it violates the law

or some person in bad faith will proclaim because the economics of it are so enticing and I'm sure state code limits the fine amount. Yeah. Well, I mean, if it's not set forth in 1522306, then it's the maximum penalty for a state or for a local ordinance is a class one misdemeanor. Yes. Virginia code says the sol penalty should not exceed twice the market value of the raised delay. Okay. So, you can tag it has a little more. Yeah. With whatever it was worth. Interesting.

Yeah. Okay. Well, that's good. And that so that's you know our ordinance doesn't require review for additions right or alterations but if it did then you know would people be more inclined to just go ahead and do those smaller things if the fine wasn't as much but for the raising or demolition there is some more teeth there. Right. Right. Interesting. Can't wait to prosecute a violation of this. That'll be a real bucket list moment as a prosecutor um in between all my other fun stuff. Sorry. Go ahead.

I was going to say that is all I have for you presentation wise other than any questions. This is just a list of resources I use to research the presentation.

Yeah. And we'd be happy to also provide the link to Stanton's historic um guidelines. Um and and any others any other localities you're interested in looking at. Um but I think this slide I guess not the previous one but maybe the one before that kind of helps show in those bold areas if we want more teeth out of our historic districts. Those four last bullets are things and not the only things, but are things that we could add to our ordinance that aren't in there currently to create, you know, more round out the historic district and the requirements more than we currently do.

And we would anything any change we would make would just be a recommendation to council to modify the ordinance.

Sure. And I think Yes. And in the comprehensive planning process, if rounding out the ordinance is something that the citizens and the stakeholder committee and eventually planning commission and council think is important, I envision, you know, there might be a policy within the comp plan that says something like the city should hire a consultant to develop design guidelines and establish a historical review commission. And so that's that's kind of the directive. And then you move forward from there with, okay, now we're going to hire that person who's going to work with staff and the planning commission to develop what those guidelines look like. You know, amend the ordinance to add some of these things. You all would make a recommendation, especially if it was ordinance related. Um, and the planning comm or uh city council would um because it would be in the zoning ordinance. So, you would make a recommendation and then city council would approve any final ordinance requirements. do

and policy requirements in the cop plan. So we currently have no guidelines but we do review demolition is could we review renovations and additions without guidelines? I I don't I mean when you say could we Yeah. Yeah. I guess would it be Yeah. consistent with the way this happens in other places.

Yeah. I think so because I think at that point it just comes down to like personal feeling sometimes like oh that looks like a cool color or I like that roof looks like it matches that. It's really important, I think, for um public transparency and for you all to be able to say um like this is, you know, if somebody wants to replace windows, what are the windows they're allowed to do? What are the colors? So that everybody's, you know, especially those that might want to buy into a historic district, they almost know upfront, here are what I'm going to be measured against. Yeah. Sort of like the zoning stuff. Yeah. like, oh, we have it complies with the we may not like it, but it complies with the Sure. Got it. Understood.

But that that those guidelines could look very different. Like some localities have a much more strict guideline, you know, are they making them come if they want to replace a window or is it a lot more lax and you're focusing on, you know, the three or four or five things that you feel like are important. So, um, and that'll vary district to district obviously. So, you'd be creating design and guidelines likely for each district. So, there's really no way to do this without contracting with a consultant to generate historic design guidelines. That's the way I would recommend. Yeah. That we would move. Yeah. No responsible way to modify.

Yeah. I mean, we're I'm not a historic preservation expert or have no experience in architectural review. Um, so it we would really need people that have expertise in that to do that. Okay. Now, realistically, what would that timeline look like if we wanted to make it into the comp plan and have something prepared for council? So, I don't think the design guidelines get in the comp plan. Like, I don't think our current consultant is um staffed to do that.

What is like the overall ordinance, not specifically the design? Yeah. So in the comp plan there would be a policy statement like moving forward city council should hire a consultant to develop design guidelines. They should amend their ordinance to incorporate design guidelines and you know any other number of things that you want to see. and and likely in the way that our consultant is planning to do the comp plan is they'd have some kind of time frame associated with that

like over the next 18 months or over the next two years or so then once you have the design guidelines in place we typically staff amend our ordinance. you know, we work with our legal counsel, but we could certainly take the first stab at, you know, looking at state code, working with legal counsel to amend the ordinance, but really you would need those guidelines in place. Um, and so I guess it depends if you know, you put out an RFP for a consultant, you get a consultant on board, you know, is that a year, six month time frame to develop design guidelines and then kind of moving through the whole ordinance process, which is typically three to six months. So, it's not super quick, you know, things um especially as we wait to kind of wrap up the comp plan. Um but that would be kind of the steps from the policy recommendations of the comp plan to the design guidelines and ordinance um passing that would happen through planning commission and council that would make it the law of the land in those historic districts.

Thank you. That was all I had. had a few more that was compounding so I'll have to think about the best way to add. Sure. Sure.

And um so Alisanne included all the references on the back and hopefully you can kind of use these slides as um you know reference as you think of things or if other things come up or if hey I there's you know I wanted to dive a little more into that we could always add on to future meetings kind of a mini session where we go into more specifics. Um, so we'd be happy to do that um if that becomes of interest and also happy to answer follow-up questions um after the meeting if other things come to mind. I assume a public at some point a public hearing would be required

anytime. Yeah. So in the so the comp plan would be like the pol like so right now we're trying to get as much citizen input as we can around the comp plan. So, if citizens are very excited, adamant, um have a lot of thoughts about historic districts, you know, our hope is that they would put their voices out there and speak to that um through this process. But there are all these public meetings going on around the comp plan um stakeholder groups. We do have a historic stakeholder group that will also be working to inform some of the um policies of the comp plan. So the comprehensive plan to get passed will have a public hearing before you all and it'll have a public hearing before council and then anytime a city adopts an ordinance of any sort there is a public hearing if it's zoning ordinance it goes before you all and a separate public hearing before council. Yeah, I can see a lot of um controversial opinions of whatever design plans come up with for the historic district

and we would likely, you know, in order to, you know, speed isn't always best. So, as we if we were to move forward with developing design guidelines, my recommendation at least would be that we had meetings in the various historic districts even before public hearings to say, "Hey, we're thinking about doing this. You got a mailing letting you know we're thinking about doing this. please come down, meet with our consultant, share I so we would be having kind of like mini planning sessions before we ever you know because the ordinance and the public hearing we would hope to iron out most of those things before then

so that would only you know whenever we if we were to engage with a consultant that's what we would say to the consultant we want you to plan three different meetings in three different neighborhoods um so that would all be part of that process Thank you.

All right. Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much to staff for putting that together for us and helping us learn a little bit about that issue. Um, next on the agenda, we have public comment period for items not on the agenda. Seeing no members of the public present, we're going to move right along. uh matters from staff.

Um the one thing I wanted to note is that we are continuing work on the comprehensive plan. Um last I checked with our consultants, we have over 500 survey responses for our survey. Um still working to get more. Um Allison and I were at the farmers market this weekend passing out flyers, talking to individuals and plan to be there again this Saturday. Um, we have also scheduled our second open house meeting um, at the high school on November 19th. It'll be from 5 to 5 to 7:30.

5 to 7:30. So, it'll be similar in style to the one we held in June. um kind of boards around for people to interact with, but it's going to be starting to kind of take all of the information they received at that first public meeting and all the detail of that phase one public engagement report and trying to begin to distill down um goals related to various. So, what are our transportation goals, what are our housing goals, what are our historic resource goals, what are our um parks and recreation goals. So kind of focusing on those and having um citizens respond to, hey, are we getting it right? Are there tweaks? What could we do different? So please, please share the survey. Um we also included um a flyer about the survey in water bills. Um so we were really hoping to see a spike in survey responses from that. Um so please share that with everyone you know and make sure you get the word out about November 19th open house. We will be putting out a press release. Um also and we continue to have stakeholder meetings. Um we've already had kind of round one and we over the next couple weeks have round two scheduled to really talk with various experts, nonprofits, people working in the field of aging services, housing services, transportation, all the different um segments um to really try and also have their feedback as we distill down the goals um for each of those topics. Sounds good.

Anything else from staff? All right. Commissioner's correspondence and communication. Leslie, those dates were given to the planning member. Sorry. Stakeholder. I know we sent them to everybody on the stakeholder group for the cop plan. Excuse me, the uh steering committee. Um, but I'm not sure we shared them with all of you, but could do that if that would be of interest.

It's just kind of you could kind of pick and choose the topics you're interested in because they're like, you know, I think we have 11 different stakeholder groups and um we're kind of setting those meetings up. So obviously it would be hey if you if your calendar is available and you want to jump in on any of those um so I'm happy to share those dates and times with you. They're various throughout the next two weeks. Yeah. All of a sudden I had like 11 calendar invitations, right? Not normal.

Yeah. So maybe Yeah. Maybe it would be easiest if you are interested in any specific topic, maybe let us know because I don't want to cloud all of your inboxes with right a ton of messages about meetings. So please feel free to reach out if you're interested in a specific topic or if you're like, "Hey, I want you to send all of them to me." Most of them are during the workday. Um, that's kind of how it worked out. Um, so let us know if you want to get those messages. All right. Thanks everybody for being here. Do we have a motion to adjourn? Thank you. I'll second. All in favor?

Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion carries. Did I run it? Yes, I'm running. Thank y'all. Y'all have a good evening.