Historic District Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay. All right. Are we ready? Yes. Call to order at 907. 907. Thank you. Um Oh, good. David emailed this morning to say he was unable to to attend, but otherwise I think we have a full full representation. Um are we we have five regulars here? Yes. Um I Is there a motion to approve the minutes of the April 7th meeting? Caroline moves. Uh and there's a second. Yes. And all any discussion? All in favor? I I Any opposed? Motion carries. Public comment. Hi. Hi, public. Hey, and just like that, we're ahead of schedule. Okay. Um, well, thank you to to Julie and Carolyn for working on the what I've called procedure guidelines is kind of turned into a revision of the website to make sure we have a material in there. Okay. Make sure is who who is there? It's just me. So, turn turn your phone down. Turn all the way down. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Do you have this, John? You have this. These are the website revisions.

Uh, I don't have a printed up. Okay. So, I read through them. Oh, here they are. Oh, okay. Um, so anyway, thank you to to Julie and Carolyn for uh these these revisions. It started out as a review of our procedure, but it's turned into sensibly a back review of the all the material that's on the website, trying to put that in a format that's accessible to the public. Is is it possible to turn that down more? Yeah. muted. Okay. Say something. The test one, two. That's good. Okay. Um, so let me just turn it over to Julie and Carolyn for comments. Well, just start with what you pointed out. Yeah. Right. originally um just looked at the website primarily to see if we could consolidate and streamline some of the procedural information just to make it a little more to visitors um easier to understand, easier to see and also ideally maybe to make the website a little cleaner so we could add things to it, you know, as as we wanted to as we wanted to. So that was kind of the original mandate which I attempted to do to the best of my ability and uh I had submitted that info a few months ago. Um and then uh Carolyn very kindly agreed to revisit it and to help boards that relook at everything and help streamline it. Um and then she worked her miraculous talents and made it much better. So, um, Caroline, take it from here with respect to everything she's done so far. Sure. And, uh, Julie, one of the things Julie pointed out so importantly was the redundancy throughout the website. So, uh I don't think that's I mean it's not quite

finished yet, but this um first overview and first sort of crack at reducing the redundancy and making things uh improving the clarity of the of the whole website I think you know at least it's a start and maybe the next meeting um we can finish or I can revise the signage guidelines and the FAQs which I haven't revised yet which both need um you know revisions. So, but this is at least a start. So, I'll just tell you the conception. I looked it at some other of the Old Commission um web pages, homepages, and from the I thought the Inland Wetlands Commission homepage could be it's it's um design could be something that we could borrow. So, on the main page, they have um historic district commission and meetings and list of members, which I don't think should change. Those are um those are fine. And then below that, they have inland wetlands commission overview. And that seemed to me to be the best place to put it was right on the homepage rather than having it be in the sidebar. Agreed. So that's if you if you're if you're following here. So the homepage meetings members would be no change. The FRA communications I don't think belongs on the homepage because it's a minor detail. So that moves to the left sidebar and then the historic district commission overview occupies the rest of the main body of the homepage. And so you can read through the you know these um I I I wanted there to be bullets instead of dashes but you can read through that later and see see if you want to change the wordings. Um then uh also following that on the homepage would be the historic district map. I think that's important. Yes. Not a sidebar thing. So we can um that I thought it should have a headnote that addresses the revisions, you know, addresses changes in the little boxes,

the text boxes. So that will be pretty easy to um to change. And then the old lime handbook revisions here. Um where did I get that from? What was the third thing? And yes, if you go to the previous text which appears on the left sidebar, it has a section called old lime historic district handbook revisions which is mostly um the information is all provided elsewhere. So I suggest deleting that whole section. So the homepage would have meetings members, historic district commission overview and historic district map. That would be it for the for the main body of the homepage. the the um when we get to the handbook itself or somewhere maybe on the first page the fact that the handbook has revision should be should be noted or when they click when you go and click on handbook will it have would have the revisions so that that could be on the homepage if you if you want so the third bullet in the historic district commission overview is a link to the HTC C handbook. So it could appear there. There could be a text below that says or well we don't need it the actual revisions there but just to highlight for people that there are are revisions to it so that they don't grab the handbook and say this is it. So maybe then that don't grab a physical copy of it and say this is it. If they just look at the whole page and say oh yes I get your point John. So that um on the HTC handbook link that would be the place to say these you know please note the regression. I'm just making that

um now the right side bar to spend too much time on this. This is pretty consistent with the other um commissions agendas and minutes contact us. I initially thought physical address could be included in contact us but other other commissions have it as a separate item. So that's all fine. And then the quick links I think we might want to add um the zoning commission and the planning commission because or maybe even the buildings department zoning and buildings because that's what other um town commissions do if you're going to have to switch to zoning. There's a quick link on our website. Good idea. Um so that's that's easy. Um and then those you know whatever you call them 1 2 3 4 5 I think can be removed from the homepage and included in the uh in the content of the of the homepage main body of the sidebars. So that would clean up the homepage. So and that's the right nothing much changing on the right uh right sidebar. So any any questions before we go to the left sidebar? No, certainly I think it's great to have all this information so that somebody who's brand new to the area knows the who, why, what, when, you know, the the lingo of the CFA. That's so confusing and I feel like it just needs to be crystal clear right on the website of who it applies to, what, where, how. So I think that's great. Okay, good. Um so then the left sidebar would begin. Um the historic district handbook which is the second item has moved to the main page. So that's removed from the left sidebar and the first item would be certificate of appropriateness guidelines and I've given a text here. I've tried to condense um the information about KA applications and all of that from other information. I've

tried to make it, you know, condense it all here rather than having it in several different places. Um, I don't think we should talk about the details. No, you can review the details and the wording and make any suggestions you want because it's not going to be final today. I'm just going over the Oh, I did note, Russ, that um we had somewhere we have to um add lighting. Oh yes, under COA requirements specified, I just wrote insert bullets and add lighting. There's no lighting here. We have HVAC units and driveways and signs, but we don't have lighting. So, that needs a separate section. And um I can't I'm not sure if that already exists on the web page in some places. We've done lighting relative to signage, but we haven't done lighting as far as the CFA in terms of, you know, dark sky and all that. I mean, we we've always had a lighting yes requirement, but we should at least note that that's something you have to put on Ca and right lighting comes next. Signage, website. Just just saying. Yeah, it's coming. It's coming. So, the left sidebar has guidelines for CFA and then which broken into three different sections. maybe can be condensed, but at least it's a start. And I included the the CO for records, which is presently on the um on the website, which just if anybody wants to look back, at least it's available as the last item. And then the like for like guidelines followed by signage guidelines followed by public hearings. If if that's important, I think it is. John had a section or somebody had a section called legal notices, but I didn't think legal notices actually conveyed what it was about. It's really about scheduling public hearings and

when they're required. So I made that a separate entry on the on the left sidebar and then the rest are not changed. Historical historic plaque program, historic architectural resources and the I thought we could move the federal railway administration communications there to the left sidebar. And then the final thing would be frequently asked questions. So that's the conception. And I did try to I made a first stab at condensing and consolidating all of the details and information in the text which you can um review and I'll certainly review it one more time to be sure that it's not redundant and that it's clearly outlined. I guess the one question I have, I mean, if I'm a resident and I'm thinking about doing a project, I already already know that I have to submit. Is the CFA form and the like for like form just like one click on the front or is it two clicks? Two clicks. It's separate clicks. To me, that seemed less confusing, but if you want one click, it's Well, so what are the what are the two clicks? uh CFA guidelines and like for life guidelines they're listed be a click right no he's talking about the form itself for itself accessing the form it's in the body but it could be right the I think it needs to be well I think I just think that that's what people are going to all the information's great but what they're going to come to the site for is is the form I I left it where it was in the exist ing text. But that's a good suggestion. So if you just look because it's brief like for like guidelines. I think it should be up. It's like it's like if you've got a product, you're going to you're going to sell a product. It's like buy here and that's kind of the Yeah. And and many people many people will already know the process and they

just need they just want the form. Yeah. Yeah. Because you click here to get here. I just had a couple then it can be taken out in the other places. A couple thoughts. one I've already mentioned it to Julie and Carolyn is but just to make sure it fits in is that we have to be very careful that the description of let's say like for like on the actual form is the same as our guidelines and I haven't I haven't done this the second the second of three points is about maps and um Russ I don't see just to check with you I don't see any need to include the original map with annotations if we have the revised one which incorporates the latest changes that we you and David and I have been discussing about the Florence Grizzle boundary. Well, that's a good question. Do we Do we use the PDF which is the the original map and then we made the you amendments to that right to then informed the the GIS map and it seems to me that what we should do is finalize the GIS map get a print out of that and have that be the actual in other what's on the GIS, which is the town GIS website. I mean, people are going again, what are they going to want to know? They're going to may want to know is my property in the the thing, right? Along with that, I think we need a few

pointers like maybe the heading could be have more detail about HDC boundaries. For example, one of the things that's sometimes confusing is whether I if somebody's wants to do a project on their house and their house is part in and part outside of the district, are they in? And the answer is yes. But that's not crystal clear right now. Right. And we might think about a couple of other little basic points 300 feet back unless there's a a lot behind that has no road access. No simple points about you know where where it is. Uh, I think what you got on the on the general uh commission overview is is is great for the front page, but you know, yeah, that's a good idea, right? Putting that and then and the third thing which I I mentioned to Carolyn at least is and I I can do this for the next meeting. I would love to have a link somewhere um with links to other organizations Shipo, Connecticut preservation as sources, potential sources of and the federal one and Martha maybe can help you remember the names and potentially even links to uh area historical societies if people are generally interested in the history of of lime. You mean just the old lime historical or do you think Sabre can What are you thinking? I I confine it to lime the the limes but maybe you know the museum

archives old lime historical east lime and and public hall. It's not not directly relevant really but it's fine. I think it's the national historic register is good because we're we're listed on the register. Um, good. Getting back to the map for one second, John. I mean, there's We could Well, we can't actually do a link to the GIS. I I think the best thing to do is to take the the updated GIS map and print that out and then post that as the final as the final map because then that that way everything that's on the GIS, it aligns with it. So, I'll have to do a real scrub of that to make sure it's exactly not not just not just the um the Florence Griswall point, but also remember coming up the street, remember the sidewall issue. Yes. And and I'm not I want to make sure that's represented in the GIS map. It may or may not. Right. And but that's also a point that might be highlighted in the description, you know, other squint to see, right? Got it. Okay. Thank you. And we can put up what's there now and then just sub this in when it's when it Sure. Okay. Those are both, Julie. Thank you. I mean there could be bullets, you know, that type GIS map and then give the date and oh, let me historic district map and give the date if you want both, but one the GIS map the GIS map would just be of the district. Yes. So yeah, you you all decide on the map. One one comment and this kind of I think you may have alluded to it, John. I don't know if this document is part of what we're discussing here, but whenever we start listing CFA is required for the

following and we talk about fences, stone walls, driveways, blah blah blah, it seems like we should always state structures because the the the code is any structure. Yeah. So, always put structure then you can list whatever you want to list and then I would say etc. That way that we don't that way we don't ever leave out something that could be a structure that's not on that list. Right? So it's it's the CFA is required for all structures and then give examples but don't leave those examples defined as just to those but put ex etc. So that there could be something that somebody could dream up as a structure that that's not on the on the list like a solar array in the middle of the yard. Well, you know that then you get into do we need to define what a structure is which can be done easily that we'll we'll work on those details. That's just one suggestion. We do. But so in the on the um in the u the the text that I used because I tried to stay as close as I could to what was already provided. It says the cover is required for the following as outlined in the HDC handbook. Maybe we'll take that out because the link for the handbook is already on the main page and and just use your language instead. Russ I mean I think this is required for the structures for example. Yes that's right. You know that's and actually in the CFA that should be on we can take out the handbook there. I don't think we have to reference the handbook. Right. Right. Okay. Because take that out on the CFA form itself. It's you're talking about structures and see that goes back to the state code. So I'm trying to get it aligned with the state code. Trevor, can I backtrack for a minute? Maybe um

it's mentioned somewhere and I just haven't seen it. But if I'm brand new here, remember there's like five or six properties for sale on the street. Yes. And if I look at this, my first thought is why do I have to do this? Do we have somewhere in there that it said this is to maintain the historic character? And also I would also want reference I need to know that it's a state statute fact. It's legal saying you have to do this reference to the state statute and in that is on the front page in description. Okay. But that I like I love the idea about the you know the general statement why are we why are we doing this yeah chapter 97 but instead of based on do you want to say required by John and that language it's on the it's on the first page of this handout the second item under district commission overview the HDC's authority is based on we could say is or derives from right derives from that's what's debated that derives from I that's top of my head Lucia that's a good question to ponder um under the Kofa application form and procedures says to permit time for publication all applications must be received at the town hall 3 weeks prior 3 weeks we don't get most of them three weeks nobody's ever done that no one has ever done that let's change what we I mean should we just go ahead and say one week prior or two weeks You know, it's nice to have 10 days. 10 days. 10 days. Three weeks. Do you see where that is? Where are you? I was Kofa application form and procedures. It's the first bullet. Upon receiving a formal application. Yes. And bolded is 3 weeks prior. First bullet.

Martha's suggesting we change it to 10 days. And it doesn't have to be bolded. That's It doesn't That's more reasonable. Yeah, we'll say that the Inland Wetlands lets you come in with your application two days. How do they do that when they're required to do a public um notice? I wonder. I know, right? We we have to do it. We have to have it published in the day and all that. Yeah. And publishing has to be between uh 14 and five days before the meeting. So we need at least five days to get that published within the guidelines. I mean this is another this is another question but for access I think um um Eric Nap has raised this point. Who reads legal ads in the newspaper? Nobody. Nobody. So there's no effective public notice the way there should be. Plus it's costly, right? Plus it's costly. Apparently that's what the state statute is is now. But if we want to give notice is it there a possibility but it would require regular updating of the of the website every month to just post notices. Well, let's think about that. Yeah. Well, but it's another possible people are reading social media and people online. Well, you know, they they put the notices in the back page of the London day. Yeah. Yeah. Which nobody reads. No. Nobody. But I don't Yeah. I I Well, anyways, I don't think people regularly sit sit there and read the HTC website

either, so it may not make it. We have a news guy here. Where do you see it? Is there lawyers do read them? That's true, right? I think online only has 300 and some odd subscribers today. Wow. And maybe the last I'm sorry, right? Share point. I was still thinking. What's Oh, sorry. Excuse I shouldn't interrupt. No second the day surely the day doesn't I mean there was a court case just recently over notice dealing with Benwick which would be the most relevant and um they ruled that there was not the courts ruled there was improper notice insufficient notice based on the fact that there was not a sub single subscriber to the heart current in Fendic and so that's the most recent case but otherwise the law at this point is is mainly to subsidize. Thanks. Okay. Um, if we could stick with this just one last minute, if you can go to the last page, page four under public hearings, the last two sentences. I mean, that the text maybe here isn't quite right. I just copied it. Legal notices are also published on the town's website and sent out via regular mail to abudding neighbors. Public hearings are open with the public to attend. letters. It doesn't say what kind of letters. I wasn't sure. Letters may be sent in advance to the historic kind of letters. That to me isn't clear. Well, I suppose any you you just say any communications may be sent. I I think that is letters when people are concerned about something. Right. Right. That's But maybe we could just describe I mean I just was going to clarify that. That's a good point. Letters of concern. Letters

of letters of concern. Yeah. concern or support maybe set events concern support information what's on your mind that's goodie and then application materials are on file it doesn't say on file where on I mean if I'm you know if I'm Deb's what Deb is saying I've just come to town application materials does that mean forms and all the supporting material I didn't think that was totally be clear. If I wanted to find them, where would I go? If somebody wants to see a CMA, where do they find it? I I just wanted to clarify planning and zoning up in land use. So, in planning and in plant, they're not going to have that before the meeting. ratings. They're not they're not going to have applications available before the meeting, but once we we've acted on them, they're accessible through planning and zoning. But see, that's an issue. In other words, I'm just thinking if if I'm a neighbor to a property and the property is submitting a CFA and as a neighbor, I want to understand what they're submitting. so that I can come and speak to the to the HTC. I need to be able to see that information. We'd have to say contact Martha. You got the abutters letter. I was going to say do they get the letter? You get the abutters letter if you were a neighbor, but somebody in town generally could be project little explanation whatever is in the legal notice, but you don't have the benefit of the whole full application until the meeting, right? But I'm just not sure. I mean, that would require submitting it weeks before, right? I mean, that's one reason to get it ahead of more than 10

days ahead of time, right? But if somebody else driving by says, I want to know what they're doing, right? For example, the the new house down the road, right? They could come to the meeting or they can go to land. I was going to say and and I mean, there's just a point at which someone has to go up there. I mean, what is it clear our connection with land use? I know that we had talked about that at some point, but you know, do they have what we need? Like we said, for somebody brand new, somebody who's going to build something or going to do a major renovation when they walk in upstairs, is there any communication that, oh, you need, you know, this is in the historic district. Did we clarify that? supposedly all the forms they do now notice notify them that they have to come here first but on the question if somebody's oblivious to whether they're in the historic district or not one of the forms I think it's the building form has them certify that they're not you know there's a box and you check either I'm not in the historic district or I've gone, you know, well, then they flag them upstairs. Craig has been flagging them. He sends us things all the time saying, "We think this is in the historic district." But there was one that was missed. Missed Pamela's Hamilton. There was one that was missed, but we came down on that was missed. Okay. And she came in later, but just the contractor who was doing the work thought it wasn't in the district. Well, anyway, this that issue can be clarified because I don't think we know what what I mean I think both Deb and um Ross have made really important points. So, I'm not in that case perhaps you should go on the homepage letters of concern or application material or something because that might be

important. I I don't know. We can we can figure that out. Okay. Okay. We do need to move on. Yes, let's do. Do you have copy of the realtor? Do you have a copy of the realtor form that was attached? Um, I couldn't find that realtor. Well, you sent it out. Yep. I have it. I just It didn't print it, did I? I have it. So, we have no hard copies of that? No. If we're behind, John, and do that last night. I guess let's do that. or or we can I mean I mean here's here's a general dis discussion and it is helpful to some of it to read through it. I tried to lay it all out in in a in a it didn't in one page. Yeah. Is this the last one or Oh, it's been revised. I think you've revised it. Yeah, there's a one page revision. This is This is how mine printed out. So I I don't see it over here. Um Oh. Oh, wait. April 26. Okay, I've got it. Six. No, cuz I was looking for that thing. I revised it for me. I got it. Well, let's uh let's uh move ahead and if there's if there's time here. If there's time, we'll do it later, but otherwise it we're way behind. So, let's let's hold this sort of of ongoing business. Um co-chairs report briefly. All right. Very briefly, I'm sure everyone by now is aware that the um the

overlay proposal was defeated at zoning. And uh just to note that um you know we did submit our public comment and I think it was was read by many and and appreciated. So that has happened and uh anything going forward is is I've TBD. Um, the chocolate shell has uh has a new owner and uh there was a sandwich board sign made out over the weekend. Ice cream. Ice cream. So, that's something that no doubt will interest people. Um, and the last thing I just want to say is has anyone else noticed that we we we were talking about the screening of the mechanicals at the Children's Learning Center. It's done. I know, but there's no front panel, right? There's no the front is open. In other words, it's it's it's screened along the side of the driveway and it's screened facing the back of the building from Lime Street. You look right at the place that it's supposed to be. The very place that it's supposed to be is completely open. So, and Martha, I don't know whether that's intentional or whether they're maybe they're not done. They're not finished. Yeah, but I'll inquire about that. When we when we has has a letter gone out to the new owners of the chocolate chip? No, I just heard about that. Okay. Yeah. When we do that, um, you it might be appropriate to highlight in the the cover note about something about signs. I can help with the Oh, and just a last thing. Um, the home word, the shop home word has left and the space pro uh previously occupied is now going to be occupied by the Connecticut Examiner and they are on

our agenda today for a sign. So, okay, I have a a brief update just and some questions just about the railway planning and capacity study. Um, the detail one other change just before rather than adding it, I did notice that the shutters on the Daniel Chadwick house have been taken off. I don't know if they're it's just being repainted or if they're permanently removed, but I I think that's something we should be paying attention to because it's a significant change. It's maybe a good change because the house has now returned to a more historic style. Probably the shutters were added much later, not in 18. I don't I could check. There are photographs. I could check, but anyway, just something to notice. But the fixtures are still there. So maybe they're putting them back up. I think just want to notice. So what house was that? The Hankley. former Hley House. Okay, that's a great question, Carolyn, because all I have shutters for my house that are in my basement that I've that I was planning to at some point fix them and put them back on. But the question is, what is historically correct? Would they have been added? You just I'll just maybe for the next meeting I'll just I'd love to know. Shutter. Yeah, you're nice. Right. Have a shutter bonfire. No, I would never never do that. Well, I it would be helpful for the next meeting, Martha, if you could just check with them as to what whether they're planning to remove them or And were they ever sent a welcome letter? Yes, they were. Yeah. I don't know what's more appropriate. Thank you, Steve. Okay. So, my my brief comments are about the railway capacity study. I'm looking back, it's now been over a year since we had a detailed

reply to our January very detailed letter and uh skimming through uh we asked several questions. What is the projected timeline for completing key portions of the study? Uh they anticipate kicking off in spring of 24 with a study to last 18 to 24 months. Uh there will be a detailed project schedule um prepared. There will be quote many opportunities for key stakeholders and community members to inform the capacity planning study. These opportunities will be detailed in the outreach and engagement plan which will be developed at the outset of the study. Um, there will be multiple large virtual and in-person open houses uh in public uh openhouse style public meetings. Uh, all public meetings will be well advertised. I don't know where this stuff is. I looked on the website. I'm not known as a great website researcher. I found uh most the most recent thing was a May of last year uh letter of interest uh about the New Haven Providence capacity planning study sort of a call for uh participation I think but Greg's up next on another matter I curious if you have any updates I I guess one question I have is is

whether it's appropriate to send a follow-up letter saying, you know, over a year ago you said X, Y, and Z. Where is it? Um, so in terms of where the capacity planning study is, we uh we queried uh Amtrak was taking the lead on this project um approximately two weeks ago. Oh, okay. Um, because we were aware that Amtrak and uh Rhode Island DOT had met with Charleston to discuss their current position on the the uh saver to Canyon Bypass which had been uh removed from the record of decision. um but the the metrics that uh that bypass um solved remain in the replicative decision. So basically what Amtrak said is you have to accomplish or the FRA said you have to accomplish this how you accomplish this between New Haven and Pro uh Providence is up to you but it cannot be all corridor. Um so the ROD was the was 2017. Yeah. So um the fact that they had met with Charle Town, it's the first meeting that we know of and the first time that the uh uh the B the removed bypass has been mentioned in a meeting to my knowledge since 2017. Um they have not as far as we know they've not met with anyone in Connecticut. Uh I would say that Entra was um not exactly forthcoming. Um and uh they but they did suggest that there

that the time frame has been pushed off maybe to complete. They said it might take uh two years. It wasn't clear when two years began. Um and it was sort of a cut and paste letter. Uh we also queried the Northeast Corridor Commission about eight months ago about all correspondence related to it. They sent us 122 pages uh that were probably 90% redacted. Um and so yeah, so there you go. So that's so my my impression is that uh no decisions have been made but it would be um but if they're meeting if arrived out of the meeting with other towns right they're meeting the full so because technically the one thing you should be worried about I'll say one last thing and I'll shut up is that you can make those savings any place you want right so if if Rhode Island which was actually I don't think people in line know just how important Charles Town was blocking this and if Charleston could get out of it and leave all that leave that all in Connecticut, they can cut that deal in. Well, it sounds to me as though we may want to send a letter. I think one thing that happened is we actually have two letters from Amtrak up on our website. One is a very detailed well four pages uh question by question responses that was sent April 1. Uh the second is a form letter from Amtrak sent in May and my guess is uh the detailed responses may have slipped through the crack. I think that maybe they've started sending out form letters. Maybe I'm wrong. To to be fair,

I'll say two things. To be fair, your letter um from our uh uh freedom information request, your letter bounced all over the bureaucracy. So, it was one of the it was one of the more read and shared letters um in you know in years. So, it was definitely seen. The other thing is um let's face it, there's uh an immense amount of chaos and uncertainty um on federal level at the moment. So, I doubt that they necessarily know uh whether how this administration stands on the northeast border. It potentially could be very pro highspeed rail. Um and you know, certainly federal streamlining um has strong bipartisan support for environmental rules. Uh uh Chris Murphy's spoken strongly for streamlining as has uh Donald Trump personally. So I if if an administration could get it done, it would probably be this administration which is interesting. And they've taken a personal interest in uh and Donald Trump has expressed a personal interest in the Penn Station expansion. So it's not that trends aren't on their radar, if you will. That's all I can I doubt they know if it's two years or or well I'm not sure how how we should proceed and I don't want to send a letter if it's going to stir them to action but it sounds it sounds it sounds as though given the meeting in Charleston that uh they're as you say at least having some do meetings would probably be the better state Connecticut is probably the better

contact along with right Murphy and and Blumenthal well they're all copied on on on stuff but was that was that Charleston meeting the public meeting? No. So I I I just haven't had the chance to I know people that are in that meeting. I just haven't had a chance to record the meeting. Thank you, Greg. Sure. All right. Next. Next item. Can I get examiner to come up? Great. We I only have I didn't expect such a large gathering. I only have one potential copy if that is acceptable to pass around. We uh basically I know that 24 Lime Street has been a little bit of a mess. Um, we don't own it. Um, it's currently for sale um for $1.2 million. I don't Both buildings I have no idea whether they will sell. In fact, there was an offer made recently um that fell through because it wasn't sufficiently large, but that there's a there's a multi- there's a decade long at least pattern of that. So, we're moving to the front um just because the price it just makes sense, but on a month-to-month lease. So, we're um we we were aware of a a sign. We would like a sign, but we also aware that there's some mechanicals that are visible. Um and it's been a mess there with the garbage cans, which we have no interest in. There's gar there were always garbage cans to the side of the red building which are shielded from view or fairly shielded. Certainly that's where they've been for uh as long as I remember. Um so we were removing the signs, cleaning up that area. Um working with the the

Mis whoever Peterson to somehow shield those mechanicals. We don't have an exact plan for that. um removing the clutter in the front on the left side, right? If you're looking at the building, the mechanicals are lined up on the left left side. Um and you know there's a low there's a split. Um and uh actually at the mis there's a missing panel on their fence. I'm not quite sure why it's missing, but maybe uh uh maybe you know we can work together either complete somehow to create something that's in keeping with what's existing in there. Um, so I have no exact plan for that. But for a sign, we were planning on a sign that's smaller than what's existing with a quarter board below. Um, it was they uh uh had a metal sign. We were we were going to do a classic wooden sign painted with uh oil wooden with classic Ronin oil paint. Um, and we wanted a sort of uh something that was kind of contemporary up top to say that we're not ye old something and then something below that uh that sort of identifies us more clearly. You know, I hate to be the one to bring this up, but I think don't we have something in the statute saying you can only have one sign? Oh, yeah. Okay. I don't think you need the bottle. I think I think we all know who you are and and I I think that's elegantly stated. Okay. Well, that's fine with me. That's my own personal opinion. Yeah. I don't know if you guys I like it better, too, right? Just with the above the door. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. No. That's the difference. No. I'm saying this. Just the Yeah. Just the contemporary at the top.

You don't need the no Connecticut examiner above the door. If if we if we didn't have it looks very it looks bare without without this something up above but yes on the glass doors. Someone might not know it's a newspaper. That's the issue. I mean you know if they might think it's a store still. Greg, can you do something on the glass um with Examiner or something like just on the door? Maybe on the doors. I don't know if Yeah, we could just reverse paint it. Yeah, reverse painting on glass is pretty is pretty it would, you know, we could also use Ronin has a a good product for reverse painting. Actually, it would be it would be my wife Robin too painting and she's done a lot of reverse painting on glass. So, would that be a second sign? But it would be not something Well, no, because the place is all over town has signs in the in the windows and we don't comment on it. Yeah, this is a physical attachment to the building. If it's a reverse painted glass, it's just like a Is that really a sign? If we do, we have to start reviewing a lot of things. I I think it's too much to have both signs. I think having that is great. And I would not be opposed to something that as you enter you could see clearly is the Connecticut Examiner or something on the glass. You know, it's a multi. The the trick here is that I think the there's Are those two? I can't see. Is it two over two? Yeah, the mullions will make it we'll make it. Yeah, but we're um could we perhaps or perhaps do it on one of the I don't know if we'd want to do it on the left or the right. What about a small plaque on the door like on the right on the bottom part of the How does that sounds like a second sign? Well, is a plaque a sign? is like there.

I mean, we have historic flags. There you go. On the flag. Uh, combine the two signs. They have a examiner with underneath potentially. Is it a sign if it Yeah, if it hooks underneath if they're connected. Connected. I mean, we could potentially hang I mean, look at the We've for years been after the old lime in to have little signs underneath their main sign, right? We we we did approve for the Ottabon Society their main sign plus a little plaque on the door. Um you know for me there is definite value for us to have the advertising so people know it's the newspaper and know it's there. Know it's a newspaper. Yeah. And CTX might look just like a design studio for a lot of people. Exactly. Um, yeah. So, if you get the two of them together, they're connected, right? I would be in favor of a plaque on the door myself, but there's a lot of options. I don't know. Someone driving by isn't going to Which is more important, the the modern logo or the the scriptive signs? It it looks without the without something filling that top underneath that light. It just looks bare. Okay. Um it it it does. And right now, just because you actually see all the paint from all the times that there has been a sign there, you know, distracting the eye is good. You wouldn't want to put the uh Connecticut examiner in place of this. They like they like the This is kind of Yeah, they want something that that's exactly right. It's kind of hip and it's kind of classical building with a It is.

And that's the that's your brand, right? Yeah, that's our brand. And we want something kind of clean and minimalist for that. That is how I think of I like that's right, you know. Yeah, the architect, but we can come we can come back with a few other ideas um in terms of something potentially connected below. We could I'm happy to rethink where we're where frankly um the flag. Yeah, we initially were going to put feather banners and then they were happy to remove home homeward was given permission. You can see the flag right there. Well, I think I hate to bring this up, but the old IN has two signs. Yeah. And so does the Lys. No, but the signs are they're separate. They're You're talking about identification signs. The the old lime in just has their one sign that says old lime in. No, they have one at the corner. So, right that you can't see now because the highway uh there's one at the corner and then there's one right in front of the handle. That's actually true. Yes. and the LSB actually might be a third one for the side door that's pointing to it. The LISB got approval for a new sign a few years ago, but what we didn't realize is that they weren't going to remove the existing sign. Okay. So, so there are now two signs. But this is this is also a zoning issue, right? This is a zoning this is in our statutes. Th it's in it's not not statute. It's I mean it it's in it's in the our signage guidelines, but it's in there because it's a zoning rag. So, why don't you come back with some other ideas? Great. What's that? Why don't you come back with a couple of So, we could take a look. I think that would be

great. I'm happy to. You know, we're not We'll be out of town for a while, so I'm taking a little bit of a break. So, um, so later in the summer it would be But you want something up there. You want something up there, but we can't we can't put up I don't I doubt we can paint the sign before. Do you want to get this Do you want to get this approved or do you It would be great to Well, let's let's wait because we're going to need We're going to need the the dimensions and the materials. But you're going to be away. We're going to be So, we'll be away. So a so a July July it's you know we're we're gone until we don't meet in July right August um could someone else propose it could someone else come in with your yes example sure absolutely we could do that would be better we can have it all ready and someone else could present a few ideas um so potentially having the connected examiner write still as part of the sign, but underneath I could see that. That could work. Um, and we can try a few different visions of it. Or and we could try a couple of paintings on the windows just to see how it looks. Um, that's that's fine. Um, it's to me it's just it's important branding for us. It's a fairly busy street. Um um Ray, I don't know if you've filled out the form yet. We have, but I'm happy to we can just not submit this unless we're 100% certain that this would be done and approved next month. I think the thing to do if you're amenable is with be because we've got a 65day limit. So,

withdraw this one, submit a sub submit a new one. Yep. That okay. I mean, that's completely fine if you're if you're willing. Sure. Um and also the CFA the statute requires a CFA for removing structures. So, uh assuming you took down the homework sign. We didn't. Oh, you didn't? I did. Okay. It was just gone. It was actually a metal sign that was you know was not what we uh so they should have submitted again. Okay. All right. But in general the the top sign is is I mean that was the sort of what I wanted to see was the sort of visual impact and whether that was something that worked for you guys. you know that I'm just I'm just very it's great to have such an important news organization centered in old line. So congratulations and I think it's great you're moving to the front. You haven't been I mean a lot of people know where you are but a lot of people don't. No. Exactly. So um and we're we're we're certainly Yeah. want to be part of the part of the fabric. Yeah. So um Okay. Good. I appreciate all the the ideas and um and your help. And just for the record, you are willing to withdraw the current Oh, sure. Absolutely. And we'll just resubmit. Yeah, sounds good. All right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And now center school. Center school. Good morning. Morning.

Apologies up front. I was in the airport all day last night. That suck. So um I'm Tanya Collo. um representing with Silver Petracellian Associates representing region 18 um school district and the project of center school across the street and we had submitted an application last May and we've made a slight change so I was told that we needed to um resubmit and um represent. So the difference between um last year's application and this year's application is due to the fact that these glass door which is a security measure that the schools are getting as part of these renovation projects um they're very heavy and when they did the shop drawings for the door that we had previously proposed does everyone have a copy of the the previous and the I made a this was the previous submission the new and This is the previous one that shows the existing door and the proposed door that look pretty much exactly like what was there councal piece between the two doors which would then not allow for ADA access. So we had to go back and propose a single door, right? And to try to mimic the historical character of the building, we did the two side lights that are shown in your application. And this would be set within that big trim that you see on the outside of the stone, the interior. So this I have a bunch of this is the existing. I mean that will yes that and the proposed was very similar to the existing and then the new and was a double door which when I went

back and did some research wasn't terribly historical anyway just for the record but that's that one um and I did bring a piece of this very heavy blast resistance blazing that you can see gets mounted then within this door frame to see the slightly tinted and I know that was one of the questions sidelights the side lights and the transom up above So you can imagine that the structure of this door and the weight of this door is pretty heavy. The door is metal. The door is metal, but what we are proposing to do is overlay a wood um to mimic the old door over it. Good. So I don't know if anyone wants to touch it or know how heavy it is. Open this door. It will be it will be an automatic door for handicap purposes. So So there's no But you will be able to open the door. Yes. Yes. There. Yes. And these these doors are also going to be at the Mile Creek School Lime Consolidated School and the middle school. That's sound rated glass right there. We use that thickness for Yeah. Well, it's about Connecticut state statute about the security doors for schools that it has. And this is a level four blast blast resistant um door and glazing blast resistant. Blast resistant. So the front door is blast and then the interior doors through the vestibial are ballistic. And this is what the state of Connecticut came up with. Okay. So that has to not be disturbed from by the blast. Exactly. So the framing and to keep the door from blowing in. Yeah. So it's it's pretty pretty heavy duty door. So that is where this leaves us is with the um the proposal of the single door versus the double door that I that I showed you in that drawing. Excuse me. How what is the hinging like uh if a kindergartener came up to the door and tried to open it? Thank you. They

apparently you can it is you know operable but there is also a panel for uh ADA access to hit to get the and there's also this whole security process that you come to the door you get buzzed in so someone in the office is going to be able to see. That was another um positive on the new design was it has more glazing. You know, the other schools all are very glazed so the staff can see who's at the door. Because this was a solid door, the staff was never really able to see who was at the door. So with the side lights, it does get out anyways. They have to be buzzed in. Is that right? Or you Oh, right. Yes, you do have to be buzzed in anyway. You have to be buzzed in and then you hit the thing and getting out. I mean, I know this isn't our I'm just curious. Can you get out of this? Yes, of course you can get out. Yes. Yeah. From an ADA perspective, you can you can it's automated door going in through both doors. And the current open is 64. Yes, I believe so. Yes. So, the single door will keep the double door look as also as well as having to have a bar which is very, you know, not historical at all. Tanya, have you finished all the other work that was approved a year ago except for the door? Um, you mean the walkway and Yeah. No, none of that's been done yet. Okay. So, so in resubmitting the application, I did include and that was one of the questions somebody had on the commission was about the um the blue stone pavers, right? Um, so let's if there are no other are there any other questions about the door per se? Um, so on the on the pavers, I understand from one of your

submissions that there's no state statutory requirement for a railing along the walkway as it goes up to the door because it's not if it if it meets a one and 20 slope, then you you don't require the railings and that's what we're we're aiming for. So you don't have all the railing in the front. I think it was Ed's question is as you look at it, what is that going to look like especially near the near the platform doorway entrance. It will be a slight you know a slight rise of of the walkway and the grade will have to get built up to meet there is and that'll be feathered out over the right and it's and it'll be subtle. It has to be to to meet a one and 20. So will it be like entrance two in this photograph that is submitted? But that one has a railing on the left side. That one has an existing railing and both those doors are remaining. So is the grade going to be above that? The grade now if you walk from the parking lot towards the front door, the grade does rise slightly now. You'll feel it. Yeah. But see, I I guess I'm having trouble excuse me picturing this. You got the flat level with the ground walkway. Is there a walkway straight into the door now? Right now there's two steps and so you two steps. So you got that 12 in. And then two steps, but then you got the side walkway at the one and 20. Mhm. So, as you're at the platform, how do you feather down from the Yeah, have to feather down into the sides. Okay. We don't have elevation of that. No, that hasn't been I'm looking also at the the schematic here for the proposed remote door post

opener location, but I can't defer. It's when you're approaching it, it will be to the right. Okay. within landscaped area. Yes. It's not going to be like out in the middle of the lawn or anything. Yeah, it has to. And does that that needs to be reapproved and that has not changed from the original approval. But the point is that we you know we've I suppose I'm getting hung up on a te technical issue. If if there are materials in your original application that were approved and those haven't changed, but you just haven't done the work yet, then we could have just simply extend that portion of the okay of of the existing application. So the only thing you're you're really asking for a change in is going from two doors to one door, right? And is do we have specification about the the feathering in the current? Right. That's what I was going to ask. So you're saying that the grade is going to go up from the center walkway to alleviate those two steps and then on the right side and the light the left side there are steps. But they're all going to it's all going to have to come up because you're going to need to be able to access it from both sides because the majority of the approach I would say is from the parking lot, not from the street side. Oh, I thought I misunderstood. I thought you'd come up from the street and then hit it and then go up two steps. That's what it is now. That's what it is now. You're changing that. Correct. Ah, okay. So, John, on this this is the current and then forgive my confusion of the building. Then feathering makes complete sense to me otherwise it didn't. Um my concern was that as you view it from the street that the sidewalk would look mounded.

Look mounded. Yes. I think it's going to be pretty subtle and it has to be because you also have the other doors on the other sides that that need to that are going to remain the same at that same elevation. Right. So ex for entrance number two. What is happening with that door? Or is that door already? That door is remaining as is. Okay. Because part of the project was to replace the the sidewalks to meet ADA access. It was a code. So is that all blast resistant and everything too that? No. No. The state it's that's the way the state decided only. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense because that's another logic. Okay. And then the remote decision, not mine. So this paddle and post we said will be where will it be in relation to it would on the on one of the drawings. It's on the site plan but it's to the right when you approach it's to the right. And again none of that was changed. That's all from the original application. Is there a I guess we need two motions to extend the current one first and second to to uh second motion to um approve the new the new doors with whatever language we want to clarify if needed the the feathering. Can I just make ask one more question? The blue stone will stay. You're not changing that material. Is that correct? Okay. I have one question on the design of the light. Um, can you pass the Okay, that is original. All right, never mind. Perfect. Yeah, thanks.

I'll make a motion for the first I'll make the first motion to extend the prior uh CFA application except for the door except for the door. Is that is that what it needs to say? Okay. Um do you know anticipate have a feeling as to when this work actually would be completed? They're going to remove the existing door this summer, but because of the long lead time, because of this blast door, it sounds like there might be a temporary door until they can install it in the fall. Okay. But they do have a deadline for this grant. Um, just part of the HVAC upgrades September this year. This is all part of the renovation project. Okay. And what would the temporary door be? I'm not quite sure at the moment. Well, they would bother with the temporary door. Why wouldn't they just leave the existing door? Because they can install the rest of it and then all they have to do is pop the door in. So there's there's they have to because it's such a massive door they have the way they have to attach it to the existing masonary opening. It's apparently quite right. Okay. I'll second your motion, Carolyn. Right. Is there is there any discussion of the motion to extend the current Ca uh which was approved with the exception of the the provisions concerning the door? Any discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? That one carries. So, is there a motion to approve the new door with Martha? Do you have the original CFA application? Does it say anything about this feathering or

will we just assume that? Um we we got a question answered and so it does say the um the ramp to the door will be um at a 1 in to 20 foot rise meet ADA accessibility. Right. But doesn't say anything about feathering the the land the landscape dirt. It says at this 120 slope no railing will be required. This will be constructed to meet this very low rise to the front door by replacing the original blue stone pavers. Is this the only handicap entrance into the building? It doesn't have anything about the feathering. No. Okay. uh but they want it to be the main entrance for security reason if that's what so what I would suggest if anyone's willing to make the motion is that we approve the new doors with the total there will be three ramps one from each side and one from the center correct so does it say ramps plural considered a sloped walkway creating change. Well, we could in the motion clarify that there are three three slopes gradually sloping ramps. There's the original. There's the original from last year or from last year. That's the original approval. It does mention the three blue stone wall.

So this is fine. So I think that the new motion needs to include the new doors and the the feathering of the the grounds so that there's no visible side of the walkway. Anyone willing to make that motion? I'll make the motion. Right. So, we have a motion, Martha, to um approve the new doorways as submitted and to uh clarify that the ground will be feathered to uh so that there's no visibility of the side of the walkways. the gray will be will there be um stone dust along the edge? I mean, how will looking at the grade? I know it's only 120, but how will it look from the front view? I would think that they'd have to excavate out a little bit and then just make it kind of a gradual slope all around. So, you're not going to see a side of a ramp. You're going to see just we're not going to see slowly rolling upwards. So they using stone dust on the edging or something. I know that's our concern that it's Yeah. I think it's more the lawn is going to roll up towards it because the pavers have to sit on grade so you can't you know so they're going to build up and then place them and then from whatever is needed to place them fender down. Okay. So, we have a motion to Oh, go ahead. to approve the new doors. Uh we've already accommodated in their

original motion the sloped walkways but uh to uh cl add the the condition that the lawn be sloped down from the walkway so that no walkway structure is visible from the side. the material of the side of the walkway is not physical. Do you want to add because I know it was a concern that language that says that the feathering the sloping the changing braid will have will be executed in a way that has minimal visual impact. Yeah, I think that's that's fine. I mean we can't without an engineering plan get into that sort of detail. We trust you include that language. Yeah. I I have one question and thought uh so the hardware is not indicated for the handle. Uh not a big fan of what's there now. Yeah. No, I know. I was wondering if you thought about what that appearance of that hardware might be on the door. It's like a bronze or um Yeah, I can probably get you that detail. I know that there's been discussion about this hardware, especially when it was a double door. Now it's a single door. It's a lot it's a lot easier. Yes, definitely cleaner. Yeah. Um but yes, I can I can get you the the the drawing and or the specification on that hardboard. Well, I'd like to end this motion like say it's a bronze or black and not not a stainless or a Okay. No, that's not a problem. What do you guys think? Be nice if it was black. Black or bronze? black or brown. The door color is going to stay the same. Yes. Okay. It's a small detail, but it's important. No, I I agree with you because I do that. That's not That looks very industrial. Yes. Yeah.

Okay. This leads me to another question. Is it is the the door will be remain black? It's actually a really dark green. I believe it's green is the color and that's what is that the color of the material or is that the color of paint? That is the color of paint. Yeah. And it is a a wood veneer door. So what they when it's a blast door, they have to put a wood veneer over it. It's a wood cladding. It's a wood cladding over a It's a It's essentially a wood door from a surface. I I understand. And the door that there was there existing is steel, but we technically can't say anything about paint color. Paint is is permitted. But right um because I was thinking of phrasing the door handle to match the color of the door or be bronze. Well, we would we want a green handle. Yeah. No, we want a black. Yeah. Yeah. Black or bronze. So, we specify black or bronze. Yeah. Material. So, we got doors gradual feathering to match the landscape and black or bronze hardwood hardware for the door. So, I second. Good. Who made the motion? I did. Okay. De made the motion. Uh Carolyn second. Is further discussion? All in favor? I um who's who seconded that? Carolyn, thank you. Were approved. Thank you for your patience. Heavy glass. Wow. Thank you. We have the bigger one. We need help with

the I hurt your back. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Next on the agenda, Peter. I think this is mostly just an update on the fence, but some other stuff that you've probably if you've driven past the Florence Cris going on painting. Yeah, a lot of painting. Um so, um some of you think I have it in here. Carolyn's notes um came by and measured the fence, which by the way was really wonderful and very helpful. And um anybody who didn't see this already, maybe you have it, maybe you don't, but um sort of trying to rightsize the dimensions of the fence based on the conversation that we had whenever it was last fall, I guess. Um some folks took some measurements and it it makes much more sense and visually I think it will sort of look less like the fence is going uphill even as it goes downhill. So we'll make those repairs soon. the the folks that actually built the fence, thank you. The folks that actually built the fence or rebuilt the fence I should say are right now um working on the interior of Saunders House. I don't know Saunders House is a property that's on um what's the road? Yes. Yeah. Um and it's been had been occupied for a very long time. Um not much has been done for improvements. It needs a new furnace. It needs paint. Um we're not sure exactly how we intend to use that, but it did need to be maintained. So that works in progress and as soon as they're done that sorry about I'm sorry to interrupt but every time I come I'm waiting longer than I'm sitting here talking and can't keep doing it. So I appreciate

I appreciate what you guys are doing but I I'm sorry it's just too much for me. I end up waiting an hour. We we do we do our best. I know. I wish I could. Sometimes people raise issues and they just take a long time to I understand. Would it help to help this gentleman take this? No, I do you take please take your time. I'm not I'm not trying to rush anybody. I just can't keep waiting on your time, you know. Do you want to go now or No, I don't I don't want to take your time. No, that's fine. Actually, I know her to go back. I have to go. Charlie, Charlie, can you come next meeting and we'll put you first put you at the front front end and that way there will be, you know, first there should be no wait. Okay, first I do tend to wait an hour every time I come. Yeah. Well, it's it's not it's not an hour. It's 15 minutes at this point. Yes. But I know enough. I know enough about how that goes. So, okay. Sorry for interrupting. Have a great day. All right. Thanks, John. We'll see you next week, Charlie. Thank you. I I don't think you know how brief I intended to be. Um so, yes. And the house is being painted. It should be done probably in the next couple of weeks. Um, one of the things we expected to find things when we went through it and um, it's being repaired according to the way the state sort of suggested with the grant that they'd offered us ought to be. One of the things that we found, if you've seen the columns, they're in pretty rough shape at the bottom. Um, I don't know how they were um I don't know what the the standards were back when those were originally worked on, but evidently they were repaired with Bondo, and Bondo doesn't really bond with everything. Um, and so it's actually, um, you can see

some holes. Those are going to be, um, epoxied and and completed, um, according to the state's plan for it. And, um, the house will be sort of spectacular, I think, in just a couple of few short weeks, depending on the weather. But, um, so on the house itself, yeah. Are you repairing anything besides the comp there? There's some of the porch um where it enters in. Some of the floorboards have rotted and those are being repaired in the same way essentially as the columns are in the back. Um there's also another sort of uh deck entry that goes into the kitchen. Some you know there's small sort of pockets of rot that are being sort of taken out and replaced properly there. The other thing that we are doing um the uh the building that's immediately behind it, what we didn't want to have happen was to have the house look brand new and beautiful and then have that look, you know, still sort of needing some attention. Building is this the first barn. It's a Well, it's it is a barn. It's not the first standalone barn. It's a barn that's attached um and it houses our uh heating equipment attached to the house. Yeah. As you come in the back. Yeah. side of the picture. Yes. Yeah. Um north side of the porch. Right. Right. Um so we're having that done so that at least that sort of two building combination looks like it's done the way it ought to be. Um and then I know you know that's I'm concerned with repairs with are there repairs to that attached part of just painting? Just painting. Yeah. Um we we do need a assuming the repairs are you taking out wooden boards and putting in wooden boards we we do need for record keeping like for like form. So have you done

that? We we haven't uh attempted those yet. So, but I will get that information. I'll send it along because yes, I don't see that there's a lot of uh except for the porch, which is not original, but um really important. Um the the front will be as I said, the columns were repaired. Um the ability to sort of um match the wood that was there is virtually impossible. Um, one of the things that we found when we when we took the paint down was it had been in the past repaired by and I guess this is probably standard as well. They um they sort of circled it with foam insulation and then they backed it up with cocking instead of the wood that was actually once in that that joint. Um, and so they're going to try to replace that skirting with new wood. Um, and then seal it so that it doesn't continue to be damaged. Fortunately, um the columns actually have um timbers in the center many times. I guess I don't didn't know this. Hollow timber. They're hollow. Yeah. Um um but this these all have timbers which is helpful for the stability of the overhanging porch. Yeah. It's the structure for the porch. Right. Right. We have we're replacing a lot of broken glass. Um we trying to preserve glass. There's some there's several windows that have etchings that the artists have done that we're been very careful to try to make sure those get preserved. Um but so far it's gone very smoothly. Um all things considered, um we are past the halfway point for the state. So we're going to be filling out a paperwork and submitting that. um the you know the museum has this really sort of wonderful um campus and this beautiful property and and I think people imagine that it's this rich enterprise but um the cost of painting the house is extraordinary and um the

only way could we could afford it is if we had the state sort of help us and we don't know what the economics are but we're still expecting them to cut that check so we'll see boy that would be a disaster but but Pete just so you know any any change any alteration the like forl like form has to be submitted before work begins so before work begins on the porch or the columns or the fence you have to submit that and I'm still forgive me a bit if you're if you're replacing some current I'm not sure what the material is with wood and it's not a like for like plate repair. So, what you need is CFA for those any changes. If you're just replacing wood, a wood floorboard, for example, because it's rotten, that's fine. And frankly, we don't care if the old the old board was pine and you're using spruce. I don't care. Cypress or whatever. Yeah. But but uh yeah, so we we conceivably depending on whether the repairs are you're replacing with the exact thing, wood for wood, etc. We need a like forlike form for those repairs and then a C of A for any changes in material. But I think John, if if if it's in a wooden overall structure, right, and then there's been some patching over the years with a material that's not the original wood material, and you're going back to what was original wood material, and you're just

kind of removing the patchwork, if you will. I wouldn't consider that as a CFA. I would say that's a lot. Oh, I I agree. But then there was some discussion and forgive me, I'm just not picturing it about skirting that was a different material. Yeah, I'll send pictures and and I'll actually fill out the form just in case it's necessary and can come back and talk. But but exactly what you're describing is what we're looking at. Um there are if you were to walk up to the columns, you can even see them from the road where there was bondo which was intended to patch the gaps. Yeah. those those gaps were trying to sort of close in the way that the state suggested was the appropriate wood which was originally there. So that's I don't have a problem with that. But if you're changing some synthetic skirting to to wood then that's a change. That's a change. Yeah. So, um, and then I think I didn't come here to talk about it, but I know that you're all aware that the museum is very sort of excited about an expansion project that it still has an awful lot of work still to do. Um, before I think it's ready to sort of share more broadly because I think there's a fundraising element to it. There are still sort of in the design sort of imagination. Um, I think the two priorities for the museum are um to grow its ability to have educational programs because the space is limited to be able to do that. Um, and then to um just simply sort of uh modernize the interior of the galleries with, you know, lighting that um is, you know, something that is available when you go to replace bulbs today, that kind of thing. So, um, but that will be something that I think that the group would be very thrilled. probably architects will be very excited to come and talk to you more about sometime in the next couple. Just just so you know, we our jurisdiction extends

obviously just to the district and to any structures that are at least partly in the district. So, if you're, let's say, and and we're concerned with just exterior renovations, but if you had exterior renovations, um, but they were completely concerning buildings that were beyond 300 ft from the center of Lime Street, in principle, we're interested, but we have no no decision making authority. Yeah. No. And I and I and I I realize that too, but I I did think that I mean I I don't know sort of the implications for anything that's within that 300 feet yet. I don't think that we know that precisely, but I I suspect there will be something that comes in front of this group for that. But I think um sort of understanding it in context for all the changes that the museum is sort of imagining would be valuable. And then back to the fence itself. Can you please describe um I I have seen these these measurements. Yeah. What exactly how you were going to change the the look of the fence to avoid the current significant gaps? Well, um, are you building down from what's No, I I think lowering the fence. What are you The the the where the fence sort of shows that it's out of proportion mostly is the further as you come south. Yes. And and I think the the the goal is is still to um fill in that ground where it it is sort of just eroded, but really it's to take the um to take the top of those off and lower them to the heights that make sense and put them in proportion to the rails, the

post. Yes. Yeah. And then um the other we knew that we would have the group that um did the work originally back in the spring anyway because we anticipated that there'd be separation between boards that were joined and things like that. So they are going to come back and they're going to do those repairs as well. But um but I think that there are really um uh three columns that need a height adjustment. And I think um it will it sort of be less visually jarring to see that they're in better proportion to the to the rest of the fence as they go down as they go south. One of them is have something coming off the bottom too, right? Is it the southernmost then the southernmost post? Yes. Yeah. I think we need a little bit more clarification about exactly what the alternate fence is going to look like. I mean, this is a recommendation, but you can see in the in the in the final paragraph, the change in overall height from column one on the north and column six on the south will be 2 and 1/2 in rather than 15 in. Are you intending to conform to this recommendation? And if you're not, we would like to know where you're not because some of these require you to shorten the distance below the bottom rail because that gap can't be completely filled in and made consistent just with with LOM. It's a it's a large difference. I think what makes the most sense um than trying to sort of translate this to what it will look like is to incorporate these um these calculations into we have as I said we have an architect already it would be a simple thing to just say could you please give us a depiction of this with these dimensions and we can send that along because I think that it would be easy to understand it if we did that I think that's great because this is I mean we Carolyn and I feel like this is accurate and and but We it doesn't visually we can't exactly see it unless it's these

measurements be extremely helpful and since it is a change we do need a new CA so once we have that rendering that sounds good submit it with you know this as an attachment before the work begins Oh yeah I mean they they have plenty of work to do before they get to this over there's time to get that in and get to that to you folks and Pete Dy um took this photograph to let you the the the distance between the ground and the and the and the bottom rail, the bottom uh slats. So that's more this is what Lime Street looks like now. You'll see that in front of the Letington House, in front of John Noise's house, and all these fences in front of of Russ's house, the gap between the ground, even though we all know for maintenance there has to be some gap is not is much much less. So we would like to see the ultimate result be more consistent with the look online street. No, you can keep it. But this is rele and they never came to us by the way. But a lot of this has recently been replaced. So you mean the fencing you mean? Yes. This is the last house on the right before the overpass. So alignment happening. Okay. Oh, that's a new that was a very popular design in it day. It's not all new, but it's it's it's it was it was really it was a significant repair. That's fabulous. Thank you. All right. A great Thank you so much. This is We really appreciate the the the open communication. You're welcome anytime. If you've got just some ideas you want to bounce off, thank you. Put me on after the former guy, I think. Sorry about that. Well, he came an hour. He's on the agenda for 10. He's only was

15 minutes late. Maybe that was his plan. If I look indignant, thank you. Did he have the Well, yeah, the agenda was posted. Yeah, I sent I sent him a copy of the agenda. You can respond if you can. Thank you, Julie. That was great. Thank you so much for all the work. Okay. Uh secretaries report. Um okay. So, so we have 14 situations um involving active CFAs or other matters. Um three of those are actually like for likes, but we're keeping an eye on them. Um so the the first one is you know one line street the window replacements which were approved at the last meeting and then the porch and foundation work um which will be on the agenda in June. Um the six lime street fence um I still have not gotten any kind of response from uh Mrs. Fowler. So, I will send her like a letter instead of just an email. Appropriate. It's been going on quite a while. I understand the circumstances, but Yep. And then we have the 38 Lime Street house. The renovations continue and I see that he's actively working on that a lot now. He really is. Almost everything's got It looks one more course to do.

Um 49 Lime Street, the center school front door. Uh 57 Lime Street, the mechanicals, which we will take a look at and make sure they're going to screen that other side. And are you going to follow up with them? Yes. What's going on? Yeah. Yes. Seems a little Maybe they gave the wrong direction to the contractor. Anyway, no sin of omission. Um, and then we have 59 Lime Street, the uh Limes Youth Service Bureau renovations. Um, 74 Lime Street, the new house. Uh, 84 Lime Street, the Sill House. They keep saying they're going to replace their roof and it's going to be like for like, but we don't have any additional information on that. So, I'll follow up with them again, too. Right. Um then we have the 96 Lime Street, Florence Griswald. Um 97 Lime Street, the garden shed. That Ca is going to expire July 1st. So I'll get in touch with them and see if there's a kind of an update on the status of that. Like if they just want to keep they have any plans to do it. They haven't started it, but this is like two years at least, I think, that they've had this sort of planning to do it, but they haven't actually started anything. Um, and then the Halls Road sidewalk proposal. Um, I'm not sure what's happening with that now that there's no overlay district. like are they going to do anything with that or I don't think there's been an official decision but I

think there's a general consensus that something should be should be done and whether that laps over to include a sidewalk in front of the art academy and the m in the museum and I I just don't know. Okay. Um, and then the the three like for likes are 61 Lime Street, new roof and gutters. That's the brown house that's next to just to the left of the Limes Youth Service Bureau. Um 32 Lime Street, that's Cindy's house. Her you put up a new fence that'll be getting painted. Um 64 and 68 Lime Street, the new storefront windows. I haven't heard anything more from them, but that man who came last month insisted that it was like for like it was like for like so we'll see what actually happens there. Um and then the membership renewals my like for like for like for like that's right. Yes. 105 and I had one that I put in year and a half ago that I haven't done yet about just me too filling in the driveway fell straight over my mine's repairing my bed. Yeah. Question on the new fence on the corner of Lime uh of Academy. Yeah. Um the the pickets aren't like the ones they replace. They removed. So, it's not like for life. That's this one. The one I have the pictures. No, it's back with Lane. Don't you Be back with Lane. I'm sorry. Cindy's house. I noticed that, too. Right. I

notic Home Depot fence. Yeah, it is. Um, is it wood? Looks wood. It's wood. It's wood. It's wood, but it is a different design. It's a different picket. It's historic. It doesn't look historic. We have that picture. I mean, we have fixed. Well, that would be I think that's I've noticed that, too. And I think it's a good thing to query. I mean, she's obviously going the cheapest way. Does Cindy own the house? She does, right? She's obviously taking this cheapest option, but it's doesn't look right. We want to flag it or just let it go. I hate letting things go just because we know somebody. But was there an application before the light was a light for like representation? So we can notify her that the materials are and the dimensions maybe are not. I think it looks taller. What? I think it looks longer. Yeah, we have. Yeah. Just say you filed the leg for leg. You can say uh three people have commented that it looks different. I I don't I think the better way to say it is I mean can you you know what's the difference in dimensions rather than three people right does this is the replacement consistent with the light for life form or have the materials dimensions changed when it's it when it's painted it's very few people are going to notice but it's there was the square picket with the pointy top yes square pickets. They were square pickets before I think flat. I think it was just a flat picket fence on I think so too. I don't think square. We have We have photographs. So we do have photographs. I don't think it was a square picket. I think it had been

rectangular. and been had it been replaced, you know, sort of because now it's like the half inch thick uh wide with a kind of I was looking. Yeah, we do have fairly recent pictures. We do. Oh, okay. I just don't I can call it up in just a minute. Take me a minute, but yeah, we can probably call it up in real estate list. Google Earth number or vision appraisal is it 32? Yeah. Um they were they were pickets but they were they look like they were shorter. This is just real estate. They do look they're shorter but that's that is these are just flat pickets. Yeah. They are flat. They're just flat. We just never noticed cuz it was just in such a disarray. And is the gate still there? Do they do the gate and the posts on the side of this gate? Um, right. I don't remember seeing the gate. Okay. But there has to be a p entrance way. I don't remember seeing that gate either, but certainly. So, so the question is really the height. You think the height is different now of the pickets? Well, we we don't have measurements. Visually, it looks as if it's different. It it does because I feel like it might. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so the question for her is does she need a certificate of appropriateness instead of a light for life if the materials dimensions and well why don't we before we send that inquiry Martha somebody if there's a volunteer maybe Ed

if he's walking by can just double check on the status of the gate. Okay. Yeah. If if there's a question there, we'll hit her with one communication that has all the concerns. Yeah. Is there a time issue? Like we want to flag it soon so she doesn't go to the expense of painting it. Yes. If she has to take it down. Yes. Wow. Yeah. I think even though you know the delicate was Cindy, nevertheless, that's a very important historic property and we can't compromise the standards, you know. It is because we even though I it's difficult. It's not an it's not going to be an easy one, right? But I think it's important to Okay. Uh so can then we deputize you. Are you going to be walking by soon? Okay. Well, when the rain stops drive by just as easily. Yes. I think it might be a little bit taller. Couldn't she just take take it up and reduce the height of the pipets? I mean, she wouldn't have to completely replace it. They're so flimsy. Do we care? I mean, is Well, I mean, they were flimsy before. Yeah. Well, what was there was sha was flimsy. So, it would just be interesting to know if there was a height difference or if it was just we were so used to it and the grade is a little and the fence itself was a little wavy. We'll do side by side. Are the post the same? The thickness of the slats, thickness of the pickets. I don't know. That's what looks different to me. But maybe it's just my eye. I think it just looks taller. But maybe because it's not painted. Okay. Well, we have we'll try to document that. We have photographs. Painting does make a difference. It does. Might not have noticed if it had painted faster. Okay. Anything else, Martha? you were starting on just the membership renewals.

Um she was on the committee in the past. I'm sorry. Um the the membership renewals we have four membership renewals. Um in the past I have the amounts. In the past, it totaled $390 and it comes out of our other miscellaneous line item and we have $450 in there. We haven't spent any of that. Um, so we can we can afford to do that. Preservation Connecticut, we usually give them 115. National Trust Historic Preservation 75. Lawrence Grizzle Museum 100. and the Old Lime Historical Society 100. That's usually what we do. Okay. If it's in the budget and I don't think we have anything else anticipated in the next few months. Um, seems appropriate to me. One month really. Yeah. This month and June and then a motion to approve payments as Martha. I'll second as explained and she'll fill them out in the motion. So Carolyn moves must seconds discussion. All in favor? Any opposed? On the abstensions? None. Okay. Um, and anything else? Plaque program. I don't have any updates on that. No. I haven't been able to get any information, additional information on 23 Lime Street. I mean, it's it just kind of vanishes once the property was split up. Then there's nothing before that. That was in 1923. Property was a bigger piece of property was split in 1923. So Fred's house is on the part that was split off. So there's nothing

there's no mention in the land records of any particular dwellings. You know the land records, you know, they have a generic always mention the dwelling. They always say a dwelling, but right they don't identify it as anything in particular. Are there are there old pre-1923 photos that would have shown anything of which are you talking about? 2023. The soap factory. Oh, the soap factory. Yeah. Like every we all know it as the soap factory, but we don't have any confirmation. I'm very rude. Yeah. Yeah. There are photographs. Who would have those? The Florence Griswald. I could find them. Yeah. But would you find them? Yeah. Yeah, that would be great. That could help. Also drawings and etchings that include it. You know, the early I think the John Warner Barbara Westview of Lime has it and the 1876 etching by Parsons I think has it. Oh, and um then there are photographs, but I can't tell you the date um of the photographs, but there are visual Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. So we could narrow it down then. Yeah. Okay. So the or the um barber etching is 1832 I think. Mhm. So that's what I know. And the photographs obviously would be later because there weren't photographs. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Okay. See what you can Yeah. Listen to those. Yeah. Okay. Great. Thank you. New and ongoing business. Uh, realtor signs. I suggest waiting for next week. We're up against 11. Um, we'll put that after Charlie James. Make sure it gets done. Yes. Um, Russ, do you have a few comments on

Old Lin? I I I do. Uh, so I reached out to to Ken and um first conversation was that they've added the two signs on the main side which look fantastic. They do. Um, and then I I sent a follow-up note saying that uh the sign attached to the fence and the wire signs, could there be a different um approach to those? And actually, uh, Chris, uh, emailed back that she would be interested in hearing from the commission, um, whether or not doing like a banner type approach similar to the, uh, the flow grids across the street, um, would be appropriate and that, um, whether it would be possible to do one or two banners. And I wasn't when she said two banners I wasn't means of you know on both sides two arms. Oh I see the association also uses banners right that's how they that's right to do basically I think they do the Sunday brunch and then she was wanting to do something that indicated the side door so that you know that the side door is there. Now, what's interesting is she mentioned the the there is that sign for the old line men that's at the corner that we we normally don't see that because it's they don't see it. It's it's hidden behind it's in the parking lot, right? It's it's hidden by the by the offramp by the offramp. We used to see it all the time, but but but then the DOT put all their, you know, don't go this way signs and it's kind of hidden. Um I don't know if she was suggesting to put a banner there or maybe two banners. How would you do two banners off the main side? I don't think you can. Are there two arms? Is there just one? Yeah. So, there's a larger one like at Flow Grizz.

So, on the right there's the larger one and then there's the smaller one for the egg changing exhibition. Oh, I see. But their sign is this way. So you do one a sign this way and a sign. I thought they just had it one one. Here's the sign. One vertical right here. Right. That's the sign. So I don't know how you do but they could they could put another you could put a banner behind which the single banner. Could they put another arm on it? Put the banner on. They could put another arm. I don't think you want if they they want to keep their existing sign. Yes. I don't think it should be a banner then. Maybe it should be a, you know, something an auxiliary sign. What if it was a rod? If they put like a rod, you know, a black a black a black metal rod. I think one back of that would be appropriate. Yeah. I I I didn't I when I said two, I was imagining the whole Yeah, I I don't But a banner would be would be because of the shape. that the banner could if we put the banner higher, it's going to look uh a long one though. I mean, yeah, I don't think it's going to fit go visually mix very well with the existing side because of that lower that it attaches. What would your suggestion be? Well, there sometimes if a secondary sign there can be an arm and then they don't they have you know sort of chain link things. So you can have one side door and another one branch. That's what I'm suggesting. Yes. Yeah. Already there are two dangling ones here. Now there are nice if you had you wouldn't want to make it equal.

That would look bad. I did it here. Why don't you say in principle it would be an improvement the suggestion is single banner and the third point is there were questions about how it would look proportionately and which size do they have in mind. Right. And the fourth question would be what if anything are you going to do about your illegal second side? You mean the one on the fence? the No, the one on the corner. Oh, nothing. There's nothing. I mean, that was that would have had to have been But okay, here's here's a thought. If they if they is it visible enough that they could envision banners there to sort of replace Well, what I was going to say is that we probably wouldn't be opposed to a second banner on right on that sign. But then does that make us culprit in supporting two signs? Yeah. Right. But if you if let's say you had a separate on that sign you were advertising the sign, right? have two that are identifying the old the end. That's Oh, I see what you're saying. Do a separate side door sign there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just say Yeah. really appreciate their thoughtfulness and just hear some of the ideas that came up or questions that came. Yeah. She sounded very receptive. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. A great step forward and then come in and show us some, you know, show us the ideas. Yeah. What what I'll what I'll say is it looks like that the commission would support a single banner on the sign out front if if it's proportionally a proportionally sized banner. If you'd like to present that, you know, come present that. If if if you're desiring a second signage, it would need to be

associated with the other sign the other sign near the road, you know, near the exit ramp and would be open to hearing ideas associated with or replace. Associated or replace. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. Because I think it would be too much to have two banners on the main side. Yeah, it would be. Um, there's not a lot of room because I've thought about this for a long time that that would be their solution to have a banner. It seems to me that there isn't a lot of room between post and the fence the wall. Yeah. So, it would have to be it would have to be a slender if they did like side door. Side door. Yeah. They could they could do it. It's just that it I mean they couldn't do a great big out of proportion one because they don't have the room. The fact that she was already heading that direction is is great. So yeah. Well, but it could be out of proportion heights. They were narrow. She know that she pulled the the one sign today. She did. The wire sign. Yeah. And it's gone. That's great. May come back next weekend, but we wait on the OCD. Yeah. I I mean really just people could read over this. It's not the only specific thing in here. I think really it's interesting to read some of the POCD especially when they mention the HTC. Um but as for specific things it's the demolition delay that they they suggest potentially considering a demolition uh delay within the historic district. So we've already been through that not with the demolition delay but with the children's learning center. remember they wanted to demolish it and and I mean there are some things already in place for example you have to come to us in order to demolish but it's not the same as a demolition delay like they have in places like Mystic and all these towns have demolition delays. So this was a

suggestion that was made and it's something that maybe we could bring up with Eric because he also had mentioned it completely separately another time. So that's something that could be discussed, but we don't have to talk about it here now. Great. Is there a motion to adjurnn? Everybody raises their hand. I second. Carolyn moves. Russ second. Scared the sore out of you.