Planning & Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

Done. Too bad. Few seconds here. Few seconds.

What am I going to do with my partner on here nudging me to say what I'm supposed to say? Just remember you're in charge. And then Brad doesn't sit by me. Shower today. Call a meeting in order. remaining. Start with roll call. Teresa. Okay. Randall here. Miles here. Anderson here. Graham. Yep. Kudel. Yes. And Espinosa. Yep. Cool. Look for a motion to approve tonight's agenda. I like motion. Second. [clears throat] Motion and a second to approve tonight's agenda. All in favor? I. Opposed.

Look for a motion to approve the minutes of the December 30th, 2025 meeting. I would make a motion to approve the minutes from the second it motion and second to approve the minutes of the December 30th, 2025 meeting. All in favor? I opposed. Public comments. Are you here for any comments, sir? All righty. We'll move on. [laughter] We'll keep rolling our way along. We have no hearings, petitions, or applications. New business. Review and discuss licensing requirements for contractors. Teresa, give us our staff report, please.

Well, we thought we'd put this before the board and kind of discuss what our procedure and what we require for licensing for our contractors. Um, it has been several several years since I started with the city before. We've kind of reviewed our regulations on this. Um, contractor license are coming up for renewal here um in March. So, this would be a good time to do it just to compare what other cities are doing, see if we want to make any changes or not. So this is discussion. Um right now currently we require licenses contractors to get licenses for residential construction. Anything major on that? So um the license it's a three-year license. It currently is $150 for the license. So basically $50 a year. This amount was at $100 for several years since I look back 2002 it was still in place. And just last year when the city council reviewed the fines and fees ordinance, they upped that cuz staff pointed out, you know, ones that hadn't changed in quite a few years. So, they did up it to 150, which I think still keeps it reasonable at $50 a year. Um, like I said, it's a three-year license. We make them come in and renew it in three years. Currently, the city of Harford does not require exams [snorts] to get contractor's license. Now, like Sou Falls does require it and I believe Brandon was it kind of put that key down there. Brandon does. Those are the two entities closest to require it. Um staff recommendation. Me and Kyle have kind of talked. You know, obviously that takes more time and work on staff. I don't know if we're big enough and could accommodate that or not, but it's something to discuss. Um, we also want to discuss will that deter people from getting permits as well too if they have to take an exam to get licensed. With the license, basically it's an application form they fill out with their contact information. Um, they have to record their excise tax number. So,

we ensure that they're registered with the state and we're getting, you know, taxes from it and then they have to be insured and bonded. So, that's our requirements. Now, um, one thing that me and Kyler have talked about that we would like to see change since I started with the city, like I said, the contractor's license is required for residential contractors, but we have exempt like small projects, um, like roof. Basically, it's roof, sighting, and decks. We haven't required them to license. I kind of look back through when that was first implemented or not. I [clears throat] don't know. It was just marked in my policy book that so we've been exempting those. Talking with Kyle, it's maybe we shouldn't exempt those because, you know, somebody could spend 60,000 on a roof these days. I mean, they're not really small projects anymore, especially if you have a contractor that cuts out on you, you know, so maybe we should have some bonding and licensing with that or and to ensure that, you know, they are insured and bonded. So after we did have a comparison um Kyle basically reached out to the you know surrounding cities. It's in your packet too of what other cities require or not. It's kind of a mix. Um I was really surprised some towns don't even require licensing at all. Like T Harrisburg isn't it? Yeah. So Harrisburg doesn't, TE doesn't, Linux doesn't, Nebraska doesn't. Um, I think it's kind of a good thing just looking at from the city standpoint. If you do get contractors in there, it gives protection to the homeowners to get have them insured and bond it and gives protection to the city as well. We're named as an additional insured. So, I think it's a good thing to keep implementing, but you know,

would you like me to tell you why those cities don't require contractor licenses? Because they realize that it's a waste of time. Because if I want to hire Jim Bob Smith to come and build me a house and Jim Bob Smith doesn't have a contractor license in the city of T. Jim Bob says, "I'll build your house. You be the general. You get through." Yeah. Yep. And that happens too because we don't require homeowners to but homeowners are signing a statement on a permit that basically if something goes wrong, they're taking a liability. So they're trusting their contractor not to, you know. Exactly. But that's why other communities aren't aren't doing

Oh, and then that happens here, too. Yeah, I totally agree. We have homeowners come in that, like you said, Jim Bob is really the contractor, but they're getting out the permit saying they're generaling it. So, you know, they the contractor doesn't need to get the license, but I'll go then the homeowner fully is aware and knows they're taking on that risk. But you have a $20,000 bond. If I if I'm having a house built and you got a $20,000 bond and my and my contractor goes south on me, that 20,000 does doesn't even cover getting the driveway put in. True. I mean, it's a it's a minuscule amount of money on the bond.

True. And and it's a minimal cost to them, too. So, but yeah, I mean, well, yeah, the bond doesn't if if if I'm a licensed contractor, that $10,000 bond is costing me Mark, help me out here, because I think ours I think ours is $300 for the two years of the bond. Do you remember? Yeah, they're minimums. I mean, ours is tiered, you know, up to on the electrical, you guys are tiered. Yeah, depending on the size of the project. No, I mean I mean with the city licenses. Well, I forget what Sou Falls I think we have to be because Sou Falls requires and I don't remember if it's a 10 or $20,000 bond.

Yeah, it's like 20,000 even for us to have a license and but and that's just the electrical scope, not a general contractor, right? But the cost of that bond is like 300 bucks. Yeah, I think it's it's very less than that. Yeah, it's very minuscule. So the bond to your point to the guy who's getting the license, the bond is no big deal, you know. And I think to the other side of it is is and I I have no need and no want to say you have to have more insurance, but any any self-respected contractor who doesn't have at least 300,000 of general liability, I'm not hiring.

Yeah. You think they would have that just to protect themselves? I was I was going to get a hold of our insurance agent and ask him what's the minimum that I can get on GL and I think it's either three or 500,000, but I was going to verify with that him with that before the meeting tonight, but I didn't get there. But and I I don't see any need to raise that liability in getting the contractor license. Yeah, I don't know. I would be I mean I if if I'm hiring the guy to do the project, I'm going to want a COI that has a higher number than that. But but people that generally people don't even think negative,

right? They hire somebody and they Yeah, the insurance company, you know, the insurance side of it, Brookings and Watertown are 500,000. When I looked at this to begin with, my thought was 500 on the insurance requirement.

I I did make 300 right now. I did make some calls to a couple three guys who are licensed contractors in town and I said if we decided to take the general liability minimum higher, does that cause you any heart any heart pain heartache or pain? And both of them said, "No, cuz I got way more than enough for for GL right now." That both two of them that I talked to knew for sure they had 2 million of GL plus another million of umbrella. Ours is three. I say I would think most

respectable this is what you do contractors every day would have a higher yep insurance. I I guess where you may run into it is if you've got a a one or a two person business that building decks or shingling houses, they may have a lower insurance requirement, but yet that I don't know. I don't to your to your point, Mark, that's the same thing that these two said to me. They said the only problem with taking that up is I mean there's a minimum for liability insurance. They won't write a policy for less than a certain number. That's why I wanted to find out from Dave what that number was. It was Yeah.

He said you stand the chance of new guys starting up doing small projects, that kind of stuff that they may not have. You bump the GL up, they may not be carrying that much because they see no need to. Yeah. So, I mean, my my initial gut when I looked at it was like, "Yeah, maybe we should pop that up." But then after talking to guys and thinking about it, it's like most people are higher than that, but also the cost of construction is right. Yeah. [snorts] Significantly higher than it was three or four years ago. But and it also

just follow that. It also comes in a little bit with me is the libertarian in me steps out once in a while and says, "Why are we as a city putting more crap in the way of people just doing business?" That that's where I'm on the fence with it. Where why are we regulating? Why are we worried about whether or not the contractor that John Q public hired to do his job, why are we worried to make sure that he has enough liability insurance? So maybe the balance as we leave the the bond requirement and the insurance requirement alone and then just require all projects. Yep. I mean [clears throat]

have a have a license requirement. I'm good with that and the I mean that's recommendation or [clears throat] recommendation but I I support that 100% and that that's what I don't know that I want to overstep with the insurance required uh to increase the 500 because I don't want to get in the way of somebody doing business right in the small project thing. I mean sorry same thing's going to happen homeowners just going to come in and sign the building permit.

You're always going to have that. there's I mean no way to go around it but like I said that home owner's taking that risk then themselves and they fully know that. So but yeah that's to your point that's kind of what we're thinking too is just leave as is with the insurance don't up it anymore for them but then just make sure all projects are are getting because I mean the biggest thing is making sure they're getting inspected and that they are safe. I mean that's why we have the codes in place is to make sure yes.

So Kyle and Paul so roofing if any roofing project requires a building permit whether it's a reshle or whatever. Correct. Whether by the homeowner or not anything unless it's a repair which is less than so many. Right. But a full reo requires requires a permit. Yeah. And if I'm going to replace the siding, does that require siding requires a building permit, right? Correct. If I'm going to even if it's done by the homeowner. Yep.

If I'm going to build a deck, it requires a building permit. But if I'm going to redeck a deck or repair a deck, it does not. Correct. So, if you're replacing boards like the flooring, you wouldn't need a permit. But if you're changing the handrail or stairs, you would need a permit since you're that's one of the code requirements because it's a substantial change to code safety. Y and window replacement. I don't need a building permit if I'm replacing the windows with same size. I only need a building permit if I'm changing the size of a window.

So, I'm changing the frame. Yeah. Basically, you're anything that changes the framework. [cough] [clears throat] Same way with doors.

Like on your roofing, siding, deck, window replacement, is the contractor going to get the building for it? Is the homeowner? those things on those on the roofing decks. It's 50/50. I would say that too. But if we change this, it's going to require the contractor and or the homeowner acting as the general contractor to get the building permit on those things. on the small projects. Now, I can just walk in and get a building permit and I can have Brad Miles come over and do the job because Miles Construction require Brad to have a But if we change this and I'm going to hire Brad, Brad's going to have to come get the building permit. If it's on your house in your house,

unless I come down and say, "I'm going to be the general contractor." Correct. So, if the homeowner is going to be the general, do they then need to pay this fee? [snorts] I don't think so. They they have to pay the building permit fees. I mean, the building permit fee, but the contractor fee as far as like the licensing and bonding. Yeah. No, they don't need they don't need to get licensed. No, there's no charge as a homeowner. So, I mean thing is they just they're taking on that risk that you know Yeah. making sure it's up to code and whatever. That was my question if we but that's their prerogative. Yeah. all these small projects. There wouldn't be a fee to the homeowner that this

because I mean there's homeowners come in and you know they got a bunch of cousins that are going to come do their roof but the homeowner comes and gets the permit and they go in on a weekend and re the Yeah. So no there wouldn't be any requirement for licensing there. Yep.

Yeah. So yeah. So if a homeowner gets permit then this licensing requirement isn't applicable at all. Yeah, I don't know. I I don't know if you need to include sidings [clears throat] and decks in the building, but that's just my the benefit there is you if somebody puts a new roof on that then they have insurance just to protect the homeowner. And I know that should be the homeowner's responsibility, but from my perspective, if if somebody hires a roofing contractor and when you have, you know, after a storm, you have traveling contractors, you know, they they move with the storm and they're rolling through and maybe they don't have insurance and then your roof's leaking and and then what protection do you have? You know, you just paid somebody $10,000 to put a roof on your house and and they didn't do a good job.

But how many of those guys are going to come pull a light? How many of those guys are going to come pull the permit? Pull the permit. My only shoot the whole through your thing is is the stormchaser roof guy. He's not going to have he's not going to have a contractor license with the city. No. Well, you mean by doing more on the roof, you can try to catch them. I mean, like when we had that datio, we had several in here and we saw somebody on a roof. We contacted, hey, you need to come get a license. made them go through the whole you could make it prior to get the building permit. No, you weren't asking them for a license because they didn't have to have a license cuz smaller projects including

I guess we weren't. I guess the building permit was building. We were having a building permit. Yeah. If I'm if I'm hiring Jose and his wandering band of roofing maniacs, they don't have a general contractor's license in Hartford. and I come down to get the building permit and Teresa says, "Who is your contractor?" Well, Jose and his and she's, "Well, they're not they're not a licensed contractor in Hartford." Well, but I already got I'm already signed the contract. I'm going to have to do it. What can I do? Are you going to tell them? Well, you can be the general contractor. I say you can take it on.

Okay. As soon as we did that, the protection of making sure they were insured. We just as as a city, we threw it threw it out and said, "Okay, well, you can just go do it." But then it's the homeowner's choice. Yeah. That that's the choice of the homeowner then because if I was those if I was a fly by night, you know, them guys, I would I would never pull open if I was them guys. Make the homeowner to always do it. And the home taking that out of there, you know, there's no risk, right? And they're pretty well verssed in that. They will tell what they'll tell homeowners. Yeah. We don't we don't have it. You need to go down and get the building permit in. If there's any contractor licensing or whatever, you need to be your own contractor. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We've gone through that with Hey, coach. Yeah.

But like I said, that's for the homeowner. If they want to hire them, then that's on them. Roofing. know about the decking side. Yeah, I maybe agree that the roofing needs it, but decking and decking really seems like it has to be a contractor's license, right? That insurance is also liability and if they don't build it some I don't know you can Yeah.

Yeah. I mean there overreach in and having too many requirements but there are some protections there. Well, I got a I got a story that actually addresses both of these. So, a homeowner came in to get a siding permit. She got it. She hired this contractor to put replace the siding on her house. Um, this point we haven't we never called for inspections. And then she was have must have been having issues cuz all of a sudden I got a call from a different contractor. He tells me to come out to the site. found out that the previous guy was using roughing nails in the siding and we were literally witnessing this employee ripping siding off the house with his bare hands cuz he's using the improper

fasteners. Long story short, this lady had to pay for her sighting on her house twice. But she also got the permit by herself. Yep. So if she would have a contractor got it, it could have maybe saved that. Then you'd have the the insurance side of it where but on the other hand she got a permit she still y [snorts] she's a general so y

seems like a discussion if the cup is half full or half empty. Yeah. So any examples of where we did have a licensed contractor that would arrive and we went after the contractor. The city wouldn't go after anybody. The homeowner could go after that or that contractor's insurance company. So then what does this requirement do? Protects the homeowner. If they get the building from if the contractor gets So what we're doing is we're the owner. If the contractor gets the building permit. Correct. That's right, Joe. We're not forcing them to. They can get the permit on their own. They're taking that risk.

But if they are forcing them to protect themselves. Yep. But not really. But not really because then the homework can just be because they can make the choice not to protect themselves anyway.

But some people aren't educated in in that area whether they should have it or shouldn't. I mean, that's I I will tell you just from a city standpoint. So you know the insurance we make them have the city of Harper as an additional insured and we have had homeowners come back their contractors have done crappy work on their house and they've tried to come back and sue the city on it as well because we issued the building [clears throat] permit we issued contractor's license or whatnot. So like I said, it gives us a little protection too that we can go back on by contractor.

I know some people think, you know, we'll respond. How would they think you guys would be issued the you know how people think nowadays if they can get the city, they get money from the city, they can it never went anywhere. We were protected, but stretch they have tried. Yep. No sir, that's a stretch. You can sue it. I can understand how to come out and inspect the building. And give them a stamp of approval and say is your electrical looks good, but you burned out your house because something shorted out. You know, I would go back and say, "Hey, that electrical inspector said I was good." Right. Oh, toys. It gives, like I said, some protection for the city.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If you're talk, if you're talking you passed inspection and then something went a miss and it was proved that it was missed in an inspection. That's a whole different insurance missing inspection. Inspected and gave him a stamp. If it was if it was inspect, they're throwing you under the bus over here. So, what would have happened? [laughter] You're just quiet. So, Kyle, what would have happened if you would have inspected that sighting and never noticed that they used roofing nails or too short of nails?

So, the building code protects us as inspectors. They'd have to prove without a doubt that we were malicious in missing that fact. [snorts] Right. They're not Superman. I can't see through see through stuff. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's things happen. Yeah. They're not not available. We're basically protected for honest mistakes. It's if I go out there and Yeah. and overlook something, intentionally overlook something, then there's an issue. But that's when the city's errors and admissions insurance kicks in. Yeah.

That's interesting because my kids in a different county bought a house, had it inspected, and they inspector put down Yep. a a brick basement foundation. It was a wood foundation. It wasn't [snorts] poured. It wasn't block. It was wood. That was a house inspection. Now we're a whole different world. Yeah. lots of I just I I guess I'm questioning the whole purpose and and what this does for or the homeowner or the builder or the contractor.

I don't know. I'm all for new construction projects. I just I was looking to make a motion when we started this meeting that in order to get a building permit, they'd have to show proof of insurance like you were talking about in here. How do you enforce it? They don't give them their building per rent till they have this insurance and they do it all at one time or you get building. We don't give like homeowners a building permit if they don't have insurance. Uh, you mean uh just to get a basic building permit to do it and they would have I mean if it was homeowners they sign off that they're doing it themselves and they don't need the insurance. That's what we're doing. That's basically what we do. We That's we have that.

You're either you're either you're either and I think there's like two different steps here because one's a contractor have to come out and get a license and in order to get a building permit they'd have to get have a contractor's license. Correct. Building required. Yes. if required and and it is required now except for those three items the the deck and the signing and the roof

and right now as it stands right now Stacy we got Miles Construction and Randall construction both going to build a project at Keelley's house. All right Brad has a contractor license and Randall he's kind of shady and fly by night so he doesn't have a contractor's license. Key wants me to do the project, but I don't have a contractor's license, but she needs a building permit. So, I say, "Well, I can't go get the building permit. You need to go get the building permit yourself, cuz you're going to be the general contractor. I'm just the builder, right? That's the way it is right now." So, she can get a building permit for me to do the work, right,

with me not having any insurance, right? Because I don't haven't had approve. And there's no way to stop that. And there's no way to stop. There'll never be a way to stop. No, I mean that's myself that's myself being stupid because Tony's a real talk. The only the only way that the only way that you stop that is you don't exempt a homeowner. You don't give them a building permit. They have if they're going to be the general, then they have to get a general contractor license just like everybody else. That's the only way that you can eliminate that. That's too far overreach. And it's way way way too far. Yeah. I mean, this they're the homeowner. It's their property. It's their choice if they uh

Jim, I'm I'm with you when it comes to all of this stuff. I uh bunch of be eliminated. It's a bunch of bal loop that we all have to jump through just because and that could be your recommendation, right? I mean right now it's in ordinance. So if we do want to eliminate it, it'll have to go through council and everything, but and I mean and this is discussion if you guys want to think about and we talk at the next meeting too. And you got I don't want to talk it to death. Yeah, we don't want to be I don't want to kill the horse.

You've got four fairly similarsized towns that don't require it at all. Harrisburg T and Del Rapids all claim staffing issues why they don't have them. Um, Linux, they're looking towards it, but Okay. So, how many steps currently today? How many licensed contractors do we have in Hartford? 40. 45. Wow, that's a lot. But we only do it once every three years. Of course, that includes also like mechanical, plumbing, and builders. No, this is just if they're doing general, if somebody comes in and builds a house

and then that permit is on for three years, right? Right. They can build and then they're building other area. So, it's not that we have 40 people that solely work in the house. Okay. Right. It's that have worked. Right. You got a valid contract. You can build for 3 years [cough] what you want. Yeah. No, I and honestly I don't either. I just don't want to put I don't support getting rid of it all together. The whole the everything. Yeah. I And I don't either, but I don't I don't want to throw anything more at it than what we probably have now. I don't think we I just don't Yeah. I don't know about adding I think we I'm in favor of leaving new construction and major projects

in there. You could argue a new roof nowadays may be a major project, but that's the problem where some of this stuff if Yeah. How does the city determine whether it's a major project or not? [snorts] Are you talking like additions like digging? You know, like I said, everything basically, you know, we've just exempted roofing, siding, and deck. Everything else everything else we're going to need, like I said, that was decided before 2006 by the if you need to wave those three things. Yeah,

we either we either throw everything in or we I I would say we redefine smaller projects in that roofing and siding are not smaller projects. right now to Kyle's example of the lady that had the problem with the siding. Her general contractor didn't have to have a license. [cough] So, but it's a healthy project. I mean, you aren't going to get a house resided for less than 20 grand, but she she got the permit, too. So, right. She would have not gotten the permit. They would have been in production there. that that's correct

the benefit I think in requiring that and it's not that I mean it's it's $150 cost on $20,000 project it's not significant right and that essentially does get passed on to the homeowner yes so we are adding some cost [cough] and they're not restricted for doing the one project I mean that they can build for three years is anything I mean correct it's not that significant right to the yeah to your point it's not that significant they if to the homeowner. Yeah. If they're coming into town, if they're coming into town to do one project, there's some significance because your bond is naming

city of Hartford. So that's a separate bond than if I need to have a bond for Humble or T or any place else. Every bond is its own separate bond. Yes. Exactly. So they're going to have to pay for the bond and they're going to have to pay for the license. So now you might have three, four, $500 worth of cost to do that one project, right? And that's where I I agree that if it's a Yeah. If I'm the guy that's if I'm the guy that's working in town here all the time that the cost of this stuff doesn't even get thrown into a project because it's lost. It's lost, right? Yeah.

But I agree that if you're pulling bonds and everything else that there is If you're that oneoff contractor that, [snorts] you know, rarely does work here, that does add on a small project. Y, but the the other thing that it does is it puts everybody on a level playing field. Agreed. Yep, that is true. And like I said, it'd be a requirement for all. box

because again, if I'm going to come in and do a sighting project and I don't have and I don't have four, five, $600 worth of licensing cost and I'm just going to come in and do one project, I can be less money than the guy who's got a license. And even that person who maybe only does one or two projects a year here, but he has his contractor license. He's got those costs that he's got to work into the project. I think autobond with the state licensing is only like 50 bucks. They're cheap as

I think the cost is only like 50 bucks or 100 bucks. The risk is so low, right? On on that small volume. The it's a performance bond. It would be performance on this. Yes. Performance. So that lady would have been protected then. She she pulled from it herself. So she wouldn't. But if it contractor had if he said he had required a contractor to do it, she might have made him have a license or she said, "No, I'm not pulling it. You're the contractor. You pull it." She might have to ensure that he has bonding and insurance to.

So the bond is not a threeyear thing. That's per project. The bond is the bond will be the city for how long? And usually uh bonds can come in one year or three two years, three years. It it depends on what you purchase through your insurance company. You can purchase only your bond whenever you want. All right. So I'm looking at this and we shows we now have well let's look at Sou Falls because the numbers $300 for three years. That's $100 a year, right? Yep. Right. So what is the bond cost over those three years? some whatever that bond the cost to get that bond is and and I don't know that number. I don't know. I say

that's an insurance company. I mean that's packaged in with our insurance. It seems to me that our bond cost for license in Sou Falls and I want to say it was like a couple hundred. It was like was that for a year then or it was for the life of the bond which and that the bond there was two years and Sou Falls our license is two years. So you're talking much talking peanuts. Yeah. It's on large projects. It's it's not a significant cost to them,

but we're giving a little protection there from I mean my just my thought and we go on it is staff recommendation. I mean basically number bullet point 1 2 3 4 from page one um as is keep the term the same it is don't require an exam because the other side of the exam thing is in Brandon if I'm already licensed in Sou Falls all I have to do is bring my copy of the exam over to Brandon

and they give me my license.

So it's just one more thing for Paul to have to look at. So, and then bonded insurance, keep it as is a staff recommendation, excise tax as is. The only thing I'd like to see is the very last bullet point. I'd like us to to require the contractor license for roofing and for siding. because I think those are significantized projects that if if our intent of having a contractor license is offering the public protection by requiring a bond and insurance, those are not small projects anymore. And if our intent of having a license for the contractor is to protect, we should protect our citizens on those projects. Just my recommendation is

I just replaced the floor on my deck and it was eye drop. Mouth drop to see the total cost that was not just material but labor was Yeah. Have you seen my guy? No. Kyle has pretty nice. Well, it's eye popping. You just don't we don't imagine it's going to cost that much. We reducted put took off the old wood deck and put in tracks precoid and it was a number that blew me away. Oh yeah. So you want to add roofing and siding to your new construction and

that's that that's my thought on this major projects. Do you want to go to a dollar amount rather than project types? bottom. It's hard to keep up with. No, cuz five years, 3 years from now, replacement windows aren't cheap. That's siding and windows a lot together. Keep in mind on Keep in mind on windows, Jim, separate because windows, it could be one window. Keep keep in mind on windows, two things. Keely, yes, it could be just one window replacement. Mhm. The other thing is if I don't change the size of the windows, I don't even need a building permit. Right. You don't need anything. I don't need anything. If all my windows are going to go,

pull them out and put them back in. I don't even need a building permit for that. Well, and that was true with my deck, right? Can all your I just replaced the floor. I didn't need You kept the framing, but I changed the rails and everything else. Now you need a permit. Yeah, that's what triggered it. Permit. Yeah, I I I think those are good changes because like I said, roofing and society aren't small projects anymore. They're and it would afford a little protection if the contractor would have expenses doing it. It's if it's not done right, the damage that can happen inside the house.

Inside the house after that. Exactly. Yeah, that could be like this one. Could you just say that if it requires a building permit then? Well, they do require building permits. All of these requirements if you just it doesn't require a building permit if you're replacing the floor on the deck, I guess. Well, yeah. Unless you just replace or windows.

So, basically, that's kind of what our recommendation is. Anything that requires a permit and a contractor comes in for it, they need to be licensed. So it would include the roof and the siding and the No, but Stacy like we're going because your recommendation says require licensing on all projects large and small, no exceptions. I'm still with I'm with you on that piece of it is require a contractor license on permitted for permitted project building permitted projects. If they don't need a building permit, they don't need to have a general license general contractor license. said they're replacing all the windows which if they don't Yeah. Which we would

if they don't need building anyway. Yeah. They don't contract. [clears throat] Yeah. If they don't come in for permit and they don't need it, we don't even go down the road of the Yeah. contract. That's just a nice piece you see what you're saying. Define delineating and defining that rather than even I think that the definition of a small project. They're not going to get hung up on a small project. It requires a permit. Then you need the contractor's license and the insurance and if contractor pulls the contract needs Yeah, that's and that's what we're Yeah. I think that's what our files for. Yeah. Basically, if if we're permitting it and the contractor comes in and gets it, they need to be licensed, right? It's kind

like I've never thought of that, but it puts that all contractors when they're bidding on the same playing fields that you Well, and what about this thing about the homeowner coming in and getting a permit? Do we want to continue to allow that or should we say no the contractor has I think that's going to be a hard thing to make because you're going to get those. It's my property. I should be able to hold, you know, I'm taking the risk of the liability. I I think that's going to be a hard sale to home owners. Yes. Homeowners should be allowed to pull permits on their own property. And like I said, they want to general and take that. The state allows that with electrical permits and Yeah. I say, yeah, electrical and plumbing. They let the homeowner do their own. Yeah. But you still have to get inspected.

No. Even though you do it yourself and you and you'll need to get the insp and and so we do inspections even if the homeowner pulls it. It just they don't require the license. Not actually on electrical. There's a whole bunch of electrical that you can do yourself and you don't need an electric permit and you don't need to be inspected when you're done as a homeowner. As long as it turns on. TURNS OFF. [laughter] THERE'S a good I can I can tell I can tell you where one delineation of that is. You can't take out a main panel and put a new panel in without having No. Then you have to bring the whole house up to code

and then you get to bring the whole house up to code. But you can you can hire the electrician to change out the main and you as a homeowner can do all the rest of replacing outlets and GFIs and all that stuff in the house. without you're still going to get inspected now. Yeah. Because when you do that, but you can do all that work yourself and you Yeah. My son-in-law.

So, we're we're in the offse. Do you want Teresa to come back to us or do we just come back? Said we're in the offseason. It was 50° today. Yeah. come back to us next meeting with a proposed ordinance for us to so so like I said the ordinance is in place that requires this waiver of these small projects was done by the forward way back well I know but we I think we're all saying that we'd like to see that changed you have to regroup the rebuke the waiver yeah basically you guys just I need a motion that you know there's no exemptions for contracting licensing if it requires a permit Okay. And a contractor pulls it, he has to be licensed.

I make that. So, it just there's no waiver in it. So, if so, if a deck needs to be done, what does the ordinance say? The ordinance says residential um any contractors doing residential construction need to be licensed basically. Period. But back when the board just by a motion did a waiver for these small projects. So we just want to undo the waiver which shouldn't have been in place. So basically I'm looking at you correct that repeal the repeal the waiver essentially. Yeah. So basically all building permits we

or so it doesn't require a contractor but if a contractor came in to get a permit for a deck then he does have to have a license. Yeah. There would be no way if there's a permit required but if the homeowner came in to get the permit then they get itated. Okay. So consensus wise, we're good on basically not making any changes on the rest of this stuff, right? Correct. Except for the very last thing, just we want to repeal the waiver for small projects and say if you need a building permit, I think we need Yeah, just I can mark that in our policy that we're doing no more waivers. Yeah, I made that motion. [laughter] All right, perfect.

And I seconded it. Seconded it. Seconded it. All right. Any other further discussion about that? Good. Good boy. That took a better We'll vote. Miles, yes. Espinosa, yes. Tood, yes. Graham, yes. You seconded it. Let's get discussion. Randall. Yes. Good. Then we're back. I make a motion to You can't quite [laughter] The agenda's not done yet, Mr. Clark, bring us up to speed, please.

Residential open zero plumber permit 7, twin permits two. Then there was a comment to go look at 100 South M Avenue. We did send a code for portion letter out to the owner. So we'll pursue that. And what so what are what are we you went looked at? You're calling them in violation of codes or what are we in violation of over there? an off streetet parking violation, the parking lot of grass. That was one thing. And then we just looked at the exterior. So, it was a laundry list of items. Okay.

By the um the National Property Maintenance Code is um has some generic language in there about [snorts] life safety, health, you know. So, we by the old Catholic Church, you're saying the International Maintenance Code, you didn't have to dog your a couple of pages. you could just send him a copy of it. Is that's kind of what you're saying? Yeah. Okay, good.

Yes. There's quite a tasking problem. So, that could prompt him to raise the house. Um I think Teresa in years past talk to him. So, about a couple years ago, the owner of that property called with an um basically saying, you know, what if I yeah, get rid of the house, put up like a twin home or whatnot. We kind of went through the regulations. His at that time, his lot wasn't quite big enough. It just was too small. But now with the new zoning, the high density, you know that. Yep. So, so he does have option there. I don't like I said, this was two years ago. I don't know if he's still interested in that, but maybe after he gets a letter, he might be. I mean, okay, maybe sent the letter.

Sent the letter. Sent the letter. Code enforcement letters been sent. I think it's in US mail. All right. What else you got?

Sometime next year. [laughter] uh commercial the city restroom at the park uh call did a frame inspection uh the quick start sea store the permit was issued as we mentioned last time and we're working with um the uh engineer and public works on the wastewater facility 1205 North Oaks we did a frame inspection having called for a final and uh we mentioned last time 1095 Rude Trail um the owners mentioned there was doing some trade working there. And then the Homebolt sharpshooters, they had some floor reinforcement and we did a framing and closed that out right down the street. So

that's the general things don't happen every two weeks. So there's not a lot to to, you know, give you updates. Right. So Mr. Christensen, uh some code enforcement issues I'm dealing with. uh had a barking complaint and then dealing with more pet licenses and then another one for rubbish and junk. So the Kelvin Trail Snow and Sidewalk that's a Mickelson sidewalk.

Yes. [snorts] Any other questions for Mr. Christensen?

All right, Teresa, do you have anything to add to your report?

Anything to really add or change? Um I guess the only thing to add to it is that with the the Windsor development at the city council next meeting um next week they will be reviewing the tiff plant and the development agreement. I just got the final development agreement. So I'll just email it out to you guys just for your reference to review whatnot. I said you don't need to approve it. That goes through the council but just FYI for you. I'll I'll just send them out to you. But um that is set to go before the city council next Tuesday. And if all is agreeable with them, then we will have our second tip in the done and completed. So otherwise, is there any questions? Um anything else about it?

Any other tiff conversation outside of that one? Um you know as you know back when but we have not heard from them probably in a few months months. So, I I don't know where he's sitting with that. Um, you know, they kind of had an initial one they sent to us was for a large dollar amount. Um, uh, we asked them to to revise it and we haven't seen it since. So, I think it's just kind of hanging up there. And yeah, I would jam must be intending to move forward. I see signs up.

I say Jan, you saw the sign up. Um we actually um ISG and staff had a meeting with them just kind of go over their plans again kind of hammer out you know um what's required what's not or whatnot. That's that was just last week. They still planned this spring to to hopefully start construction and so hopefully that's all still a go and Paul said you know Quickar's got their permit. So have a question that'll be nice to see that and going question on that Dakota mainstream update. Yeah. Is that additional water than what we've already got coming in?

Right. So, this would be the looking at a regional water system that would bring water from the Missouri River, wherever that access point, whether it's Chamberlain, Yankton, whatever, to eastern South Dakota. And so, that would help supplement what we already have. Um, this project, it's a a long game. It's like a It's like a Louiswis and Clark. You're looking at it 20 30 years out, but you got to start these this process. Well, that's why I was wondering is it do we cannot sign up to Louis Park anymore? Are they all? Yeah, we can't get on with Lewis and Clark. Yeah,

but Minaha, which is our water source, gets some water from Louis. Yes. Yes. Lewis and Clark supplies um Minhaha Community Water, which is where we get our water. So, so yeah, they're our water distributor. But there are shares that communities are eligible for. And yeah, there's pressure if you don't

use or utilize, but I'll tell you what, Louis and Clark is looking at water from Dakota main, too. So, [laughter] it's Eastern South Dakota really is going to see a water source shortage in the years to come if we don't figure out a way to utilize water from the river. All the uh water rights are in eastern South Dakota are already spoken for and used up. So you can't get any more water rights here as far as doing wells or whatnot. So you either get it from a bulk supplier like a rural water or and and them too like I said uh where we get our water from Minihow Community Water. They're part of Dakota Main because they want more water so they can supply more more customers. So all the rural water systems are looking at needing more water. Cities are also up looking at needing more water. So it's definitely going to be a need in the future. So like I said, we we need it. It's another Louiswis and Clark and we we need it for this area.

Not all the water rights are taken up, but the good ones up. The bigger Yeah. The bigger water rights are are taken out. I go they taking all the water they can take out of Missouri River with the with the No. Oh, no. No. No. Oh, I mean with their rights. I mean, are they limited as to how many gallons they can take out of there? No. From what I understand, there's a lot of water that just flows through this state that we don't even tap into yet that that we have water rights to. Yeah. This isn't like the Colorado River. We have plenty of water right available out of the Missouri River. Yeah. The Missouri River Missouri River when you get down.

Yeah. Remember when when the Missouri River dams were put in, there was a huge irrigation project that was attached to the dams going in and that basically would water half twothirds of eastern South Dakota and that got knocked next out of it. But South Dakota held on to the water rights. Good thing cuz they're going to water basically the whole northern half of East River was all going to get irrigation water on that project. [snorts]

Yeah. It's amazing how much Yeah. water flows basically through the state that we don't tap and Yeah. So So there's water there. The big thing is [snorts] getting it then, you know, from the river to Yep. Exactly. That's that that's the big question. The big expense though. Anything else for Teresa?

Make a motion to adjurnn. I don't think he ever hit me that hard. Have a motion and a second to adjurnn. All in favor? I missed. Who second it? You did. Okay. He was more gentle than that. Meeting adjourned. Who pushes snow down the bike path in front of my house? I don't know, but I'm going to kick their butt. Usually, you see the dirt that's pulling the It goes to the city cuz I would never do that. Skid loaders spreading out our clump.