City Council - Regular Meeting

There's some in there.

I'm so sorry. Yeah. It's going to be a busy week.

She's doing great. You just went for a visit last time I've been before, but she was not very small. Yeah, she's she's recovered from the common area on the spine. Taste of attire today.

No, thank you. Surgery. Grab a couple of here. It's. Hello, Carl. How are you?

Good. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. This is the first time we've ever.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

They're both on.

Chris, can you hear us? Yes, I can hear you. Sorry, it took me a second to come off mute.

Can you hear me okay? Yes, we hear you. Thank you.

Thank you. Can you hear me okay?

Yep, we got you too, Linnea. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So that's a little bit better, a little more comfortable than hanging out and standing. Glad to have you here this afternoon. Welcome. Welcome to our work session this afternoon. We have two items on the agenda. Typically what we do, just so you know, in work sessions we don't take public comment, but what we want to do is we want to make sure that you have the opportunity to hear what we're hearing as well. And so I'm assuming most of you are here for the first item on the agenda, which is the Union Bench Utility and Trail Study. And so before I turn the time over to our consultant, Mr. Marty Acey, I just first want to welcome Councilmember Mecham back. He's been spending quite a bit of time with some students outside of Orem, and he's back. And then also to just acknowledge that Councilmembers Kilpack and Millett are here online, and so Welcome to them as well. I just wanted to preface this before we start this presentation just a little bit about kind of where we, a little bit about where I know I stand and how we got to this point and what we're doing and what expectations are and aren't at this point. As you know, the North Union Canal Company decided to no longer put water through their canal, and the Provo Bench Canal Company, Provo Bench as well. And so this is left. I'm assuming most of you probably live adjacent to the, I see lots of nodding, adjacent to what used to be the canal. I did see a little water in it last couple weeks ago, but I imagine that was rain or somebody, yeah, something or, yeah, I looked at that and went, hmm. But anyway, it has created this corridor through our community. And one of the questions that we had, we had discussion on this at the beginning of the year, and community members, in light of what's happened with the Murdock Canal, say, okay, here's a canal. Here's a piece of property going through the city. We don't know much about it. We don't know who, you know, some... Parts of it are wider, and other parts are as wide as the width of the elevator. I was talking to Mr. Shirky about that as we were coming downstairs. So I just want to reassure you and let you know that as a mayor and council, we don't have any preconceived notions about this. We truly don't know if a trail even makes sense there. And so there are those in the community who feel that it would be great and others who don't. And we haven't taken a position one way or the other. And so we just wanted to... We are sincerely... was seeking that information. And as part of that, the city of Orem applied for and received a grant to hire Mr. Acey from Methods Consulting. And one of the very important points that we had in our RFP is the need for outreach. the need to communicate with members of the community. And so that's a priority that we had for Mr. AC and Methods Consulting as we seek information to see if it even makes, if something like this makes sense, yes or no, what would, the pros, the cons, we, like I said, just don't know. So council, I don't know if you wanted to add anything to that before we get started. Go ahead, Council Member Gale.

I also just want to state that I think this is really broader than the question of just should we put a canal trail there or not a canal trail? I don't think that's really what we're here to discuss. What we're here to discuss is what is happening with this trail? Who owns what? What are the liabilities? What are the pitfalls? What kinds of things might be dangerous to our residents? Where do we go from here? So this is much broader than a canal trail or not. That's like the lowest item on the list right now.

Yeah, because there's So now history is kind of an interesting thing. Yes. I understand that you know most of the people here.

Almost everyone here. And I just for the record want to say that they're all amazing and great people.

Mm-hmm.

So, yeah, and to that point, before we got started, someone made the comment that, well, why haven't we heard anything about this until now? And the answer to that is really there isn't anything to know anything about because we really don't know where we're at and what we're doing. We're kind of starting at ground zero. There have been a lot of talk. There's been a lot of ideas. There have been a lot of things talked about. let's dive into this and see what we have here. This is kind of ground zero, the starting point. And I'm thrilled to see so many people here that care and that want to weigh in on an important decision. And as Jen said, you know, there's a lot of layers to this, whatever this ends up being. Yep.

This is literally ground zero.

We haven't, that's why we're here.

So yes, yes.

Yeah, but Ground Zero is the time to be here. So I just say that I love the fact that we have so much interest and so many people here because you get to learn what we learn at the same time. And I think that just makes for a much more productive process. I applaud you for taking some time out today and being here.

Yes, thank you. Thank you for coming. Your input is valuable, very valuable. And just so you know, too, that I know I've received some emails and I have also received mail, certified mail, regarding this. I just want to acknowledge that I've received that. I did receive, I just, I've been out of town. I just got back in the office today. And so, counsel, I have a letter here that I haven't had a chance to have scanned and sent to you yet, but it pertains to this letter. to this discussion, but you'll have that probably tomorrow as we go forward on that. So we've scheduled a 30-minute presentation and then a 15-minute Q&A by the staff and council on this issue. And so I'm going to turn the time over to Marty Acy of Methods Consulting. Welcome.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for your interest in being here as well. Thank you, Mayor, Council members. We've chosen to call this... Are you hearing me okay? Okay. Okay, very good. So this is the North Union Canal and the Provo Bench Canal. And because that's a mouthful, we've shortened it to just a Union Bench Canal study. So just to preface that, we're not trying to diss the canal part of that, but it's a mouthful. But before I get started, I wanted to relate a quick analogy. And several years ago, I came across a book, and I don't know if anybody's heard of it, but it's called Moby Duck. And it is a story about a container ship that had like 28,000 rubber ducks. and the rubber ducks fell off of the container ship into the Pacific. This was in 1992, so it's been many years ago. But it started as a simple question of, where did the ducks go? And that led into a study of ocean currents and shipping and environmental concerns and a whole series of questions, really, that nobody anticipated. And I think there's a little bit of that, well, or a lot of that in this study. At first glance, we say, this is a pretty straightforward question. What do we do with the canal? But once we start looking at it, we realize that it has a little more to the story than just what is a canal, or what do we do with the canal? The reason we're doing this study is because it is a canal that's in transition. The canal company is considering dissolving, but that doesn't negate the fact that there is still a canal, that infrastructure there. And so as we look at this where, you know, we've got aging infrastructure, who's responsible for this canal, the liabilities, the responsibilities are unclear. We've got... As was mentioned earlier, we've got a corridor that runs through the city, and it could cease to be a continuous corridor without a planning effort, which is what we're, like was mentioned, this is the first step in a 100-mile journey. And so we need to understand the maintenance issues, safety, and future use. And so that's where we are excited to kick this study off. And I'm working with a remote, my own computer, and another computer. So if I forget to change something, let me know. But why this study today? matters is there's a lot of questions that we simply don't know the answers to ownership questions the liability issues and what are the infrastructure needs of the city and also we're looking at potential future uses It's important that we understand that and I think this is perhaps the most important slide that I want to discuss tonight or this afternoon is that this is a study only. This is not an approved project, a construction project. It is not an approval of a trail. It's not an approval of a future use. It is just a discussion at this point about what responsible options are available for us as we look at this. So this is a necessary planning step. And it's important that we understand what's there today and what constraints are there and also the responsible solutions that exist there. I want you to understand we are gathering facts and listening. In fact, in the RFP, the number one scope for public outreach was listen and learn. And that is my job to listen and learn. I am supported by a team of professionals. We have engineers, hydrologists, engineers. an array of land use personnel. So I'm not flying solo. I have a very professional team behind me. And so we want to assure you that this is an evaluation first, and then the decisions can start to come into focus. It's important that we look at what the study will and will not do. And on the left there, we see that the study will document the existing conditions. We'll look at the easement constraints that exist. We want to look at safety and the drainage element of this. There's some issues surrounding that. We want to look at some alternatives and what they may cost. and this i think is important to note is that we want to gather targeted information from those who are adjacent to the corridor but also from a community-wide perspective as well this will not approve as was mentioned and i can't emphasize this enough this is not approving a project this is not authorizing any construction we're not acquiring any property or additional easements We really don't have a predetermination of what this study will accomplish. We are truly here to listen and learn. I wanted to quickly discuss what my role is and our public involvement approach. As was mentioned, the priority number one was to listen and learn. And that begins with starting today. We were awarded the contract the middle of July and we had to get our ducks in a row and get some things pulled together but from now on we are open for business if you will and we want to understand what the concerns really entail for the adjacent residents what some of their concerns are what And then as we get through this, we want to do what's called ideation, which is really where we get together and start coming up with ideas. And how I've often kind of thought of ideation is it's kind of a ready-fire aim approach. It's we're going to get some things on the board, look at them, and then we can start fine-tuning and see what are some responsible alternatives. What the community can expect from me is you'll be receiving direct mail pieces. I welcome the opportunity to have some group meetings with the coalition. We want to have an open house that is, you know, a couple of open houses. I think we want to have a scoping open house and then perhaps some more, here's some alternatives that we want to present. We'll have some charrettes, which is just basically the ideation part of this, where we get together and start throwing things at the wall and see what sticks. And of course, group email. Email is a pretty awesome way to communicate with a large group and there are, you know, in the study area you'll notice on the map we've got an area that's in purple and that is our primary focus. We're looking at the entire corridor but our primary focus is the part of the canal that runs through Orem City. So we've counted approximately 330 some odd parcels of land that abut the canal in that area. We've got a survey team that is on board as well, and they're exploring what easements look like, what the property encumbrances are. And so it's, again, want our friends from the coalition to understand that we are agnostic, if you will, as to what becomes of this corridor. We are learning along with everyone what the community would like. I wanted to discuss a little bit about what success looks like and how we define that success. And I don't think that we're here to prove that a trail should or shouldn't be built. We're not here to prove that some idea works better than another, but we really want to know that We have enough reliable information that will help us to determine how best. This corridor has the potential to be something really awesome. It has the potential to be very expensive, some of the solutions. But we want to understand exactly what the concerns and constraints are around that. I look forward to this opportunity. I've been doing this type of work for the last 25 years of my life, my career. And I am very appreciative to those who have shown the interest enough to come and to explore what's in this corridor. Starting today, we have prepared what's called a story map and this is going to be our repository of information. It discusses what the corridor background is, the canal companies and so forth. This QR code will take you to this study and once you're in the study, There's a map that is an interactive map where you can go and select an area you can zoom right in, focus in on where you live, what you're, and then explain your concerns, what interests you, what ideas you may have, and all of these will be listened to and considered. Um, you know, I, the, the biggest, it's one of these, my, my dad told me, um, the biggest challenge is that communication has actually happened. And I want to make sure that communication is happening. I am a very open resource for the public to contact. If I'm able to, I will answer my phone live. I do not want to let phone calls fester in a voicemail. If I can, I will answer the phone live. I've committed that if I'm not able to, I will respond within 24 hours. And as we begin this effort, I've said it's like a, you know, there's puzzles that are 500 pieces, 1,000 pieces. I think this could be a 10,000 piece puzzle. And it's going to have a very interesting design that we're trying to fit together. But with the cooperation of the council and the community at large, I believe that we will have some actionable items that can then move forward, and it provides opportunities for funding, for further ideas that could be explored, but we need something that gives the council a roadmap, if you will, for this corridor. And that is my presentation. I don't know that it went a whole half hour, but that's okay. I've heard that a short meeting is the only thing better than no meeting, so...

I appreciate your presentation. I have a question. What's the time frame on this study? And as we talked about, what is it, the one of 10,000 piece puzzle and the first step of a journey? And I have sat where you are not on this particular issue, but I thought, oh, man, am I going to have to come to this place for like the next 20 years or what? Yeah.

So my portion of this is I've scoped for a 10-month review, and that is including, as mentioned, getting things prepared for public consumption, honing in our message. And then we'll have check-ins throughout the following 10 months that we'll be able to present information, continue learning. We want to have, I guess you could call it a steering committee. But I also want everyone to know that public input is vital, but it also can't be considered a veto of everything. We've got to have an actionable item. And so that's what I most want everyone to understand is that We don't know the problems, the curiosities, the ideas, unless you share them. And that's really why we're embarking on this effort.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Council, do you have any other questions for Mr. Acey? Oh, Mr. Councilmember Mecham.

Well, just to follow up on that, that timeline is helpful. What's the next stage? In other words, when will it be appropriate for us to re-engage with you on this, Martin?

So we are currently in the planning stages of holding an open house, as was mentioned, a scoping open house that will be held sometime in, I'm looking at the end of October. And we will present some information, some preliminary findings that we've been hearing. But we need to look at, you know, there's a lot of, from my understanding, there's some stormwater discharge that is going through the canal. So we need to look at who's, you know, who has that right to discharge that water into the canal and what some of the ramifications are of that. So that's where our our drainage engineers come into big time play is how we handle what, what is a corridor that carries water. Does that answer your question? So, um, Again, mailings we'll have. I hope to get everyone's email address from the story map here. There's an area that you can share your contact information, and then we can really start communicating and keep you informed as we move forward through the process.

And that was my question, is what was the best way for those who've come today and in others who want to stay in communication and know when they're going to be different meetings or when you'll be presenting to us again? Yeah.

I would love for there to be for people to go on to this story map and share your contact information. Email really is an effective way to communicate with a large group that spans a long corridor, five mile corridor approximately. We do want to have some small group meetings, you know, like I'd call them like a neighborhood walkabout where we just have a pop-up and talk to the neighbors and understand things. So as we go on, uh, look for that, I've talked with Pete, the city, uh, public information officer. Uh, we will be posting some things on social media, um, because this does involve, you know, it's backyard for the coalition, but it's a community, uh, effort as well to understand some of the needs that exist in the community and how to best balance those needs.

Right. Thank you. Councilmember Gale, then Councilmember Lamson.

Can you help us understand the purpose of the scoping meeting and what residents can expect there?

Yes. So that is where we basically present information that we currently know, which will include what we've been bird-dogging as related to the easements, underlying ownership of easements. I've said this before, there's a lot of plats that exist. Some show the canal only on a couple of squares of the plat and others say, you know, 0.235 acres is dedicated to the canal. We need to understand who where who owns the underlying ground for some of these things. It's also we've found that there's some overlaps that are occurring as far as easement Some some properties go across the canal So are we cutting someone off from using so there's a lot of things so we're gonna look at Some of those concerns we're looking at drainage We're looking at Some of the even the cost will come into this as you know, what are some of the solutions? It's not going to be an easy, hey, let's just do this and there's the money. Some of this stuff will require applying for grants and other funding through channels. We've got some federal programs. The Utah has a trail network division that... we're coordinating with as well so it's it's basically a here's where we're at now you tell us what filled help us fill in the blanks well i think one major question we all want to know the answer to but maybe at another time is where did the ducks go oh yeah um

The canal.

Maybe. So as we embark on this journey together, I'm assuming that you have a way to reach out to every property owner along the canal through this whole corridor. So each one of them would be receiving information.

Yes, we have researched all of the adjacent properties we have. This is available through tax information. So we've got mailing addresses that mailing addresses that should go right to the owners of the adjacent properties.

And then something, again, not necessarily for this evening, and I know that Public Works is probably all over this, but I'm curious if there are some infrastructure that would make sense to go along this corridor to be buried, whether it be pipes or drains or utopia cable, or if there are some things that would make sense to use this property in such a way. And I'm sure that we'll hear about those opportunities down the road. And then just to touch on something that you mentioned earlier is the uniqueness of the different properties where you have someone that has property on both sides of the canal, will then now you know the possibility of that being cut off um and then also on 800 north we have a business uh car dealership who owns that whole stretch of property so this if there were a trailer theoretically that would need to go through the property so that it if we ever got to that point that it was talked about becoming a trail there just some nuances there that were that will be really unique and complicated, but I'm really excited about this because I love your thoughts about ideation because, you know, through this process, who knows what we will come up with. We might come up with something that's just, it has never been thought of before. And, you know, that will be amazing. And that might be absolutely nothing, you know, or just, you know, who knows where this is going to go, but I'm excited to be a part of the process and grateful that we have so many folks here to help us in that journey.

Awesome. Thank you. And I will say ducks have washed ashore as far away as England. So from the Pacific, that's a pretty big journey. That's a good trip.

Council members, Kilpack and Millett, do either of you have any questions or comments?

I don't have any current comments, but appreciate the opportunity to hear how the opening of this study is going and and it's in my interest i've been involved with some of the neighbors and also had questions answered previously so i'm grateful for all that's taking place Thank you so much.

Right, thank you. All right.

Oh, did you want me to come in? I think all of the questions I was going to ask have been addressed. So let's move forward. I'm anxious to find out what we're going to learn here.

All right. Thank you. So that concludes this item on the agenda. Thank you. Yeah. Oh, I guess I got to acknowledge the city manager, huh?

You're fine. Maybe just one comment, because this has been kind of implied, but I just want to make sure that it's explicitly taken into account. There could also be different solutions across different areas of these canals as well. So there may not be a one-size-fits-all sort of solution. We can look at different variety of solutions across different sections of the corridors. Correct.

Yes, and we're taking that into consideration. Thank you. As was mentioned, the corridor varies in width, so we need to take it as a case-by-case approach. or area by area look.

Right.

Thank you. Thank you.

And I want to thank those of you who've come to our meeting for this item. And please know that there are going to be a lot of opportunities to give public input. And I hope that if you are interested, that you have given our consultants your contact information so you can participate in that. I truly appreciate you being here. Thank you. All right, the next item on our agenda is a presentation by our finance director, Brandon Nelson, on residential rental dwelling license ordinance update. So a five-minute presentation and a five-minute Q&A. Oh, in just a minute. We're doing some tech stuff.

This may not be the last five minutes.

All right.

All yours. So we're just giving you a heads up as far as this ordinance change in relation to what will happen on September 8th, on the council meeting on September 8th, we would then come forward with the ordinance to actually make this change. But I just wanted to bring it forward just to make sure that you are aware of it before we brought that forth as part of an ordinance. So the current code has this information all in it except for you can see the highlighted item at the bottom under number three. So recently the state legislature made a change in relation to rental dwelling licenses whereby if an individual who has a rental but is not charging anything for the rental. For instance, they maybe have a child living at that and they're not charging the child rent. or giving it out as purely the goodness of their heart, they can come in and sign an affidavit indicating that that is the case, at which point, if they do that, the city cannot charge them a license fee for that particular activity. at that time until such time as they do begin to rent out that particular dwelling. So because of the state legislature made that change Orem we felt that we needed to incorporate that into our own city ordinance so that it was clear what needed to be done and that that affidavit would be updated each year we would as we go through our rental dwelling license process each year then each year we would basically be asking them to re-establish that yes you're they are still renting not renting that for you know for compensation So that's really all that has to do with this ordinance, and just I wonder if there were any questions when we bring the ordinance to you here in a couple weeks.

So thank you. And so basically what this is is a change to reflect a legislative action that happened this session to include this in our ordinance so we comply with state law. Correct. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Council member Mecham has a question or comment.

Thanks, Brandon, I'm aware of some cases in the city where. Parents or grandparents have rented out their homes for free, again, because they see this as fully their property and they have family members staying there and that have been found in part by the city to be in violation of having a rental license and then charged for that rental license. I've had some families approach me saying that didn't feel right to them.

uh this seems like that would remedy that kind of situation is that your understanding yes okay all right council members okay any other questions we have council member lamson assuming this will be a consent item we're hoping to just put it on the consent and that's part of why we wanted to come forward is that we could just put it on the consent because you're already all well thank you anybody else council members kill pack our billet do you have any questions or comments

Nothing more to add than what's been said. Thank you very much.

All right.

No, I don't have anything either. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Well, that takes care of that. And so we'll see you. I guess we'll see this back, this proposed ordinance back on September 8th. Is that correct?

Correct.

Okay. All right. Counsel, there is one last item and I just, I do need a motion to adjourn. I motion to adjourn. Right. Thank you. Is there a motion? Is there a second? I'll second. All right. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. All right. Thank you. Well, we will see you on Thursday. We do have a public hearing on the truth and taxation hearing on Thursday. And so that'll be here. Well, we have a meeting with the.