City Council - Regular Meeting

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Hey. Hey. Hey. 30. So, we will go ahead and pull this to order. Uh, welcome everybody to the Monday, November 3rd, first meeting of the month of November. We do have a second one later this meet uh later this month as well. As is our tradition, we'll begin this as our call to order. We'll begin with an invocation from Father Wy, our police chaplain, followed by the pledge of allegiance. Father Wy, if you come forward, let us pray. [snorts] Gracious, loving, and almighty God, we give you thanks for the abundant blessings of this life. We thank you for gathering us together here this evening. We thank you for this community, for those that you've called to lead it, and for those who live, work, and play in it. Father, we ask that you bless this time that we have together this evening. Bless everything we do and everything we say that it might be according to your will and to your glory. And Father, give us eyes to see and ears to hear you in everyone that speaks here this evening. Help us to respect the dignity of every human being and make decisions that are wise and for the benefit of all the people that live, work, and play here. All this we ask in the name of your son, our savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

Thank you. Amen. Please join me in the pledgece [clears throat] to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] All right, as everyone is uh is coming in, um Madame Clerk, if you would go ahead and do the roll call and then I'll kind of brief on how how nice one need to go. Mayor Gayler, present. Councilman Boyette, present. Councilwoman Taylor, present. Councilwoman Matthews, present. Councilwoman Weekes, present. Councilman White,

present. Perfect. Thank you, sir. And uh uh Pro Tim Jones is feeling unwell this evening and so uh we wish her a speedy recovery. Look forward to seeing [clears throat] her soon. So before we move to adoption of the Well, no, we'll go ahead and do adoption of the agenda first. Um Mr. Livingston, are there any additions or changes from staff? Um the add hunger and homeless awareness month proclamation to presentations.

Brilliant. So, we'll be adding a uh hunger and homeless awareness month proclamation to presentation as item 4.5. For those uh keeping notes on your own version, we've added an item 4.5 or is proposed to add an item 4.5, I should say. Council, any other comments or questions related to the agenda or requested modifications? Hearing none, entertain a motion to approve the agenda as modified. So moved. Motion's been made. Is there a second?

Second. Motions have been made and properly seconded to adopt the agenda as modified. Is there any debate? Hearing none, all in favor, please raise your hand. All oppose, same sign. Seeing none, motion passes unanimously. [clears throat] All right. So now, as everyone is very aware, we have got ourselves a robust agenda this evening. It involves a lot of public comment, a lot of public feedback, which is certainly what what we are here for. When we get to the public hearings stage, I just kind of want to lay out just a couple of a couple of quick things to speak at the public comment section that you're requested to please speak or please sign up with uh with the clerk. There's a notepad outside. If you're here to speak at the public comment period, please ensure that your name is on that so we have contact information. Those of you who are coming to speak at one of the public hearings, there are seven of them. Just make sure me memory is correct. There are seven of them. Please pay attention where we are. We'll go each one. We're going to take our time. We'll establish the ground rules for what what we're actually talking about. Conditional zoning versus special use versus just general administrative plan. We'll go through each one. We'll take our time. Those who wish to speak on more than one, you're allowed to do so. But when you're up in front speaking on, for example, item 5.1, please only make comments related to 5.1. Don't then go ahead and immediately jump into comments for a future item on the agenda. Uh let's we'll try to stay focused on the individual items as we are going. Uh as always, if you would please silence your cell phones, we do have a full room. That's a good thing. We want to make sure we're able to focus on the meeting. And that goes for myself as well. I put on [clears throat] do not disturb as I was walking across the air bridge. All right. So, with that, uh, Mr. Livingston, if you'd get us started on item 4.1.

Thank you. That's a commission and community relations, uh, development annual report. We have the board chair here to give that report at this time. Mr. Knack, I believe, right? Oh, excuse me. This commissioner, Miss Battle. Yes. Yeah. Sorry. The number two is historic. Sorry. I apologize. They'll pull it up [clears throat] for you. Hold on one second. Good evening. Good evening. Evening mayor and city council members. I'm Carol Battle and I am I'll tell you this.

Waiting for [clears throat] Okay. And I'm Carol Battle and I serve as the chairperson of the CCRD and I'm making this presentation to you on November 3rd, 2025. Uh our CCRD members are listed here for you and I would like to say that our members uh work very well together. We're very supportive. Uh we cooperate, we collaborate, we consult, and we work together as a team. And if any of those members of the CCRD are present tonight, would you please stand to be recognized? [applause] We're going to begin with the uh first of the year when uh the CCRD did the MLK uh day celebration on January 20th, 2025. In previous years, the CCRD had done a breakfast and had done a lunchon. But this year, we decided to have a church program and it was very very successful. At least we think it was. And if you can see from the slide that it was our 35th annual Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. celebration and it was at the um church and it just was just so good and and everybody, you know, came that night and they were so excited and everything and we were really really happy. We were at Deeper Life Church. Our speaker was Carolyn J. Thompson, former North Carolina Court of Appeals judge. We had a variety of people on the program including speakers and singing groups from the whole community. And we thought that was really good because um bringing people in together and working for this community we thought would be a good thing for the community. And so we were so appreciative to use that church and to have different groups to come in and support us. Uh also we had about 300 to 350 people in attendance and um Alpha Fi

Alpha uh fraternity served as our ushers because as you well know Dr. Martin Luther King was a member of Alpha Alpha fraternity. And so these are our programs. Everybody looks happy. Uh we had a reception afterwards and we thought it was a great success. All right. Then we um we met and we talked about a lot of things we wanted to do and we looked at the calendar and saw that so many things were happening. So we decided that we would do two major things and we'll also participate in other programs and we did national night out October the 7th. Okay. And here you see us. It was kind of hot that night, but everybody did really well. Uh we were very happy uh to be a part of this program. We had an opportunity to have brochures to give out into the community and talk to the citizens that came by and we had candy and all kinds of little uh whatnotss and little souvenirs. Everything on our table got gone. We thought we were in an excellent location. Uh we networkworked with a lot of people and we enjoyed that as the slides can show you. Okay, here we go again. We want to thank everybody that came by and everyone that participated with us on National Night Out and then we had gun violence awareness program on October 21st. This was something that the CCRD was really concerned about and it took us a little while to write the logistics out, but we were able to have [clears throat] it at Dillard Academy Charter School and we had good attendance and the presentation was done by Captain Jason Adams and Officer Angelina Estrada. We had remarks by the mayor. It was an excellent presentation and we learned a lot about gun violence and we were, you know, it was just a very good program. And so that was in October. As you can see, everyone's highly engaged. Now, the CCRD does have some planned upcoming events and I'd like to share those with you.

Uh our MLK Day lunchon is going to be on January 19th, 2026. Tickets for that event will begin on November the 19th. Uh we're going to have inter we want to have an interfaith breakfast in February 2026. We want to do a nonprofit resource fair. We think this is very very important. There's a lot of logistics to get that together. So the date has yet to be determined and the place and then in May they want to we want to have a mental health awareness program because it's a really big issue now and we want to do that in May 2026. We want to especially thank um Octavius Murphy and Councilwoman Jamie Taylor for working with us. Uh my appointment to the CCRD will end in December and it has been my honor to serve on this commission. Do you have any questions?

Council, any comments, questions, feedback? I [clears throat] do I do have one question there. Mr. Mayor, please. As far as the MLK um lunchon is concerned this year, uh we we're still funding that. We still have a line item. Do do we know what the budget is for that? Asking what's [clears throat] budget in the city or what what you're planning on. I'm asking what the city budgeted in the budget. You remember was it 2500 was the was allocated. [clears throat] I think Katherine here she might remember but it sounds about sounds like 2500 to me. 25

2500 was budgeted for programming MLK lunching as well as uh Junth. That's our community affairs guy. He should have a [clears throat] figure in his head. So, he does. So, so, so I guess my follow-up question though, Mr. Mayor, is I know the last time we had this discussion about MLK, $2,500 wasn't the number. I I it was it was much more than that to to pull off an event of that that uh that magnitude. So, I I just want to know how how did we go from 25 to I think if I'm that was the total event budget. There were sponsorships and ticket sales as well. And the city of course contributes a piece of that, but there were ticket sales and sponsorships as well, right? Yes.

Mayor, you mean sir, didn't didn't we make the decision to leave several thousand dollar seed money in in place to carry forward? Yeah, we did. So, I was just wondering since since we we decided that how did we come up with 25 and that included all the things that we were doing, but we we set aside something for MLK that I thought anyway. I could be wrong, but I thought we set something aside for MLK. So, in the budget, what um Mr. Octavius Murphy just said that it it included MLK lunchon as well as Junth activities, right? So, so that's just so, so, so that's not what I I don't think that's what we decided.

Then bring forward bring forward a plan cuz I mean this council has been very consistent in supporting this event and supporting CCRD. Bring forward a plan. Tell us tell us what you need and let's let's get it right because let's make everyone whole because obviously we're proud of this event and want it to continue. Absolutely. Okay. We meet again on the 18th because of Veterans Day. So um and we'll have a budget for you that time. That's all right. Yeah. Just submit it to me and I'll take it to the city council. We'll get it done. Okay then. All right then. Yeah. We want we want everyone to be whole because I mean we're we're grateful for the work that you submit it to Octavius and then he'll [clears throat] submit it to me. Okay. Okay then. All right. Thank you. I'll bring it back to you and thank you again. Okay. Thank you.

All right. We'll move to item 4.2. Uh Mr. Leison, if you'd get us started there. All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. We have the historic commission's annual report. Uh, and the chair is here to Fritz is here to give his report.

Good evening, mayor, council. Uh, my name is Fritz Knack. I'm chair of the historic district commission for the city of Goldsboro. U, we meet on the [clears throat] first Tuesday of each month in uh, annex uh, city hall annex 206, room 206. I know it and I think everybody else knows it as the large conference room, but uh, we meet at 5:30. Our staff liaison is uh you have this do I have the clicker? Do you have the clicker? Who has the clicker? [clears throat] There we go. All right. Our staff leaison is uh is Paul Sailors. Uh the historic district commission is a local board that uh identifies, protects, and promotes the city of Goldsboro's historic and cultural resources. It was formed in 1983. uh and its first preservation overlay was certified in 1985. I'm sorry in uh zoning district was approved by council in ' 84 and it was certified in 1985 by uh national park service of the US department of the interior. It consists of uh nine members, nine civilians uh seven regular and two alternate. Uh [clears throat] we also have a I'm sorry. We also have Miss Beverly Weekes is the uh ex official member representing council. Uh a lot of there we go. What does the HDC do? Well, we we designate and recommend local historic districts and landmarks. Uh we we uh create and maintain preservation standards. Uh we conduct quasi judicial hearings which is uh if something is beyond the bounds of of uh if a major work is beyond the bounds of what what the planning department can approve they come before us to to issue a certificate of appropriateness and uh and then we uh through the planning department is issue

those certificates when appropriate to do so. Our our purpose is to uh safeguard the heritage of the city to promote the use and conservation of such district landmarks for education, pleasure and enrichment of the city, county and state. Uh we encourage historically sensitive rehabilitation, you know, uh fixing things up as they decay. Uh and we enhance [clears throat] the attractiveness of the city and promote the historic harmony of style, form, color, proportion, all of that. We try to maintain the existing uh historical architectural standards and keep those within the bounds of of what was originally intended when it was built. Over the course of uh 2025, we have had uh nine major COAs approved by staff. Uh there were six major that came before the the commission. One was not approved, one was tabled, and four were approved. Uh they're uh listed here in some detail. uh the museum there in January. Uh East Walnut Street, 120 uh East Malberry where Rank and File is. Uh the Granthm House, uh St. Paul's Church is one that has been tabled. [clears throat] Uh you can see that ran through through July and August. We're working with the state historic preservation office on on some of the details with that. October, we uh we approved uh yeah the removal of the aluminum cladding uh there at uh 112 uh East Walnut Street. Hoping that goes well. We will uh probably see other changes afterwards after that piece of it has been done. our current initiatives and and yeah I think maybe the slides are anyway uh our current initiatives are are to update the historic district design standards and the reason for that

we'll get to in a slide from here we we are being required uh by the uh by our search by by our goal to become a certified local government uh we need to update our standards to guidelines uh that that's a requirement from the state. [clears throat] Uh now if we can get the certified lo local government uh status, one of the big benefits we'll get is we'll become eligible for a lot of grants. Uh we already have, you know, tax breaks and things like that we we can offer and that this will give it act give us opportunity to bring in actual direct money to to spend towards towards our mission. Now, a certified local government uh is is uh something out of Congress from uh uh an amendment of the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966 requiring each state to to establish a procedure by which local governments may be certified. Uh now, the requirement has since become a certified local government program, and there are over 45 of them in North Carolina. Uh, local governments that qualify for certification must have an active and legally adequate historic preservation commission, which we do, and must must meet the federal requirements for certification. Um, yeah, we're going to see these same points again on the next slide, I believe. Yeah, with with with some checks marked off. So, so some of the things we have to do is have a comprehensive in inventory of our historic properties. And we have that. Uh we have to have information on the area's locally designated historic district and landmarks. We don't have any landmarks, so that one was easy. We don't have any landmarks yet. I expect we'll end up with some. Uh we we have an existing ordinance uh creating the local commission. We have the commission's rules and procedures. I'm going to skip number five for a moment. Number six is that the resumes of the members of the commission, [clears throat] we have those on file. Uh and uh we have uh history uh description of the commission's past and current

activities. Now, the one item that's missing before we we finish this certified local government application is that the design standards uh will have the the the guidelines we have have to be converted to standards. There's there's that that came down from the the state. There's just a little bit too much wiggle room in a in a guideline and a standard lets us draw draw a firm line past uh you know past which things can and cannot go. And after we get that application in, it'll be uh within 45 days and we'll get a letter from the uh state historic preservation office. There we go. Uh who will then forward the application to the National Park Service and we'll get notified that we've received it. Uh that that's the end of my official presentation. So I'll go off script for just a moment to point out that uh Mr. sailors has in fact been putting his heart and soul into getting this CLG done. Uh the entire entire planning department is just just really really coming together and [clears throat] top-notch. I love working with him and and they just keep getting better and and one of those one of those engines there is Mr. Sailor's work on on the certified local government applications. Anybody have any questions?

Council, any comments or questions for Mr. Knight? I I do have a comment. It's not on the um CLG though, just on the uh a process I guess of in the historic district. Um so so how long do do you have to actually upgrade reconstruct a a structure that's in the historic district once it's purchased or once it's identified to

there? There's there's really no particular timeline from from purchase or acquisition to when you have [clears throat] to do anything. Now, if you're going to do something and it's a major change that that that that is beyond the scope of the planning department's ability to say to to approve it, uh then it comes before us. Uh I think it's within about 60 days of application. You have to be seen and I believe the activity has to happen within 180 days after that. Is that correct? One year. One year. One year. [clears throat] And only reason I asked is because there's a plethora of u old houses on John Street when you first enter into the historic district. and they're dilapidated and they're dangerous. So, I was wondering when when or if there was going to be any any action taken on those actual properties.

I I know that our code enforcement [clears throat] department has has really ramped up over the last year or so and and they would be really the ones to to address that kind of thing, particularly the safety issues. Uh but but uh yeah, I agree with you. there there are an awful lot of dilapidated buildings and I we have def I've in my two and a half years on on the commission I' I've definitely seen some stuff improve so we're we're definitely moving in the right direction that's all I have

sadly that also comes into play where you get into demolition by neglect and some of the other you know things that you kind of have [clears throat] local government to try and compel someone to you know make an investment in their property which is a whole different conversation you know outside of the scope of this but it does roll together. Um, with the historic district commission, has the commission given any thought yet to what landmarks around the city might uh be ones that we we have not formally considered any of them, but uh just speaking as as a private citizen, I'd be really surprised if gold for Union Station didn't didn't get there someday. Fair enough. [clears throat] Fair enough. Comments any other comments, questions for Mr. Knack?

I just wanted to I just wanted to thank you personally. I know that I served on there with you before coming on city council and you have brought a wealth of knowledge to the historic commission. So, I just wanted to personally thank you for all that you do and I appreciate that, Marriott, very much. I I gave all the credit to Paul because he deserves it. But since I've been sitting as chairman, it's definitely on my resume is all my work. Well, if nothing further, thank you. [clears throat] Thank you very much.

And again, Miss Battle, Mr. Knack, thank you for your work as chairs. This is it. It becomes a uh a whole another a whole another job if you do it to the degree that y'all are doing it and and it makes a huge difference. So, thank you to both of you for stepping up in roles of leadership. Thank you to Are there any other members of the historic district commission in the room? If y'all would please stand as well just to be recognized. Thank you. [applause] But the the work that [clears throat] happens there then it filters its way up up up to us. It's it's very important work. So thank you so much for your time to the other commission members. Thank you for your time and your energy that you put into it and uh we look forward to you know the next chapter of leadership in one case and continued leadership in the other. So all right let's move to if I can find the other tab. Let's move to item 4.3, the Veterans Day proclamation. Uh, I will read that and do we, Miss Getts, this will, this will just simply be read into the record. All right. Veterans Day proclamation. Whereas Veterans Day was once known as Armmesus Day, proclaimed by President Woodrow Wilson in 1919 to remind Americans of the tragedies of war. And whereas in 1938, Congress passed a bill that each November 11th shall be a day dedicated to the cause of world peace and hereafter celebrated and known as Armistice Day. And whereas in 1954, Congress changed the name to Veterans Day to honor all American veterans of all wars. And whereas through their commitment for freedom, Americans veterans have lifted millions of lives and made our country and the world more secure. And whereas with respect for and in recognition of the contributions of our servicemen and women have made to the cause of peace and freedom around the world. Now therefore be it proclaimed that the

Gsboro City Council does hereby proclaim November 11th, 2025 as Veterans Day in the city of Goldsboro and urge all citizens to remember the service and sacrifice of our veterans who defend our freedom and preserve our way of life. In witness whereof, I have here to set my hand and fix the seal of the city of Gsbury. this the 3rd day of no of November 2025. And would any veterans who are in the room who are willing to do so please stand and also be recognized. [applause] Thank you for your willingness to stand and be recognized and also thank you for your service. Next we will move to item 4.4. four, a tradition started by our city manager to uh do proclamations in honor of each of the branches of our United of our United States uh military. United States Marine Corps birthday proclamation. Whereas on November 10th, 1775, the Continental Congress authorized the formation of two battalions of Continental Marines. And whereas the United States Marines have served with distinction in every conflict since their founding, holding true to their heritage of any time and place. And whereas North Carolina is currently home to approximately 40,000 active duty Marines and one and 1,000 reserve Marines that proudly defend the freedoms enjoyed by North Carolinians throughout the state. And whereas Marine Corps base Camp Llejune in Jacksonville, Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point in Havlock, and Marine Corps Air Station New River in Jacksonville represent a critical role in the Marine Corps mission in eastern on the eastern seabboard. And whereas today we seek to honor and celebrate the founding of the United States Marine Corps and wish the core a heartfelt happy birthday. Now therefore, be it proclaimed that the Goldsboro City Council does hereby declare November 10th, 2025 as the United States Marine Corps birthday in the city of Goldsboro, and encourage all

residents, businesses, organizations, leaders, and elected officials to continue their strong support of the United States Marine Corps and their ongoing mission to ensure [clears throat] our freedom. And witness whereof, I hear to set my hand in a fix the seal of the city of Goldsboro, North Carolina, this the 3rd day of November, 2025. And if anyone is uh willing to do so, are there any Marines in the room that would like to stand and be recognized? Understood. There are probably a couple of you in the room that simply don't want to be. I respect that and I appreciate your service. We appreciate your service. All right, we will move to item 4.5, National Hunger and Homelessness Awareness Month Proclamation. Whereas every person is created with inherent dignity and worth [clears throat] deserving of compassion, respect, and a safe place to call home. And whereas too many individuals and families in our community face the daily realities of homelessness, living without shelter, food, food security, or stability, and often without the hope that every human being deserves. Whereas local faith communities, nonprofit organizations, and volunteers throughout Goulsboro work tire work tirelessly to serve our unhoused neighbors through acts of kindness, service, and love, offering meals, clothing, resources, and encouragement to those in need. And whereas these efforts remind us that homelessness is not simply a condition to be managed, but a call to action to extend grace, understanding, and opportunity so that no one in Gold is left unseen or unsupported. And whereas National Homeless Awareness Month offers an opportunity for reflection, education, and renewed commitment to building a community where every resident can live with safety, stability, and hope. And whereas the city of Goldsboro recognizes that addressing homelessness requires compassion, faith, and collaboration across all sectors, government, nonprofit, business, and community alike

to ensure that homelessness is rare, brief, and never permanent. Now therefore, be it proclaimed that the Goldsboro City Council does hereby proclaim the month of November 2025 as National Homeless Homelessness Awareness Month in the city of Goldsboro and encourage all citizens to open their hearts, lend their hands, and support efforts that bring hope and healing to those experiencing homelessness and witness whereof, I have here to set my hand in a fixal the city of Goldsboro this the 3rd day of November, 2025. Council members, I just simply want to take a moment and remind as you see things that you need and want to see recognized, make sure the clerk and myself know. This is a beautiful example of something that needs to be in our official record. And I so appreciate um the council members who are are willing to to come forward and bring things like this forward. Um if Councilwoman Matthews will allow me to simply recognize you, thank you for getting getting this on the agenda this evening. All right, let's move into public hearings. Item [clears throat] 5.1. Mr. Livingston, any brief or do we move directly to Miss Johnson choice?

Uh, thank you, Mayor. I think we can move directly. This is an update to our annual action plans. All right. [clears throat] Good evening, mayor, members of the council. Good evening. Good evening.

Um, tonight we'd like to receive public comments on a proposed substantial amendment to the city's 2021 22 22 23 23 24 and 2425 community development block grant annual action plans. HUD requires entitlement communities like Gosboro to submit annual action plans that outline how federal CBDG funds will be used to address local housing and community development needs. This substantial amendment was prepared in response to a HUD requested clarification regarding the use and allocation of prior year CDB CB CDBG funds. The amendment proposes to reprogram unspent funds from previous program years to support um a new eligible activity, the McN McNair heights public infrastructure project um which will provide needed imp um improvements within that community. a notice of this public hearing and a 30-day public review period uh were published in accordance to the city's citizen participation plan. All comments received during the review period and and at tonight's hearing will be incorporated into the final amendment submitted to HUD. Um so [clears throat] at this time um I do invite any public comment.

All right. If we could This is already something that council has seen and approved in the past. This is a technical correction. Yes. Um, the actual verbiage that is being changed is what? Because again, it was it was a a technical correction that we even debated if it needed to come back before council. But as an abundant of of caution and transparency, we're just stating uh because we have to discuss or cl we have to state what how we're going to allocate the funds. We did not mention that we were going to allocate funds to the McNair infrastructure project. We have to specifically say McNair infrastructure project. So we have to go back and amend all of those years annual action [clears throat] plans. So the previous language was more categorical in nature and this

infrastructure project or something like that which it was and okay perfect council any comments or questions for Miss Johnson choice before we open the public hearing.

All right perfect. So with that we will open a public hearing. This is and feel free to have a seat over. This is a public hearing for item 5.1 on our agenda. This is a public hearing uh to disc to hear any feedback on substantial amendments to the 2021, 2022, 2022, 2023, 2023, 2024, and the 2425 annual action plans. Anyone wishing to come speak on item 4.1, please or 5.1, please come forward. Second call for the same as public hearing for item 5.1 on our agenda. Anyone wishing to speak, please come forward. Third and final call. Item 5.1 on our agenda. All right, seeing none, we will close the public hearing. Uh, council, are there in the last few seconds, has anyone developed any comments or questions on this one? Seeing none, is there a motion to adopt the resolution as presented in our agenda packet of authorizing staff to make the changes?

So move, Mr. Mayor. All right. Motion's been made and properly seconded by Councilwoman Weeks. Is there any debate on that? Hearing none, we will move to the [clears throat] vote. Please vote electronically if possible. All right. Uh motion passes on a six 60 vote. Motion passes unanimously. All right. Item 5.1 is approved. All right. Let's move to item 5.2. Uh Mr. Livingston, who's he who'll be coming forward on 5.2? I think it's going to be Mark Helmer, [clears throat] planning director. All right, Mr. Elmer.

Good evening, Mayor Council. Hope everyone is well this evening. Uh this first case tonight is annexation uh 0325 Stony Creek. This is property owned by the uh city of Goldsboro. Um in your packet is a uh a map surveyed map of the property. U when staff received the application uh we started doing our due diligence. we started to drill down into uh the facts of the application and realize that uh there is rightway that is deed property that is deed to the rideway as opposed to it just being railroad right away. It's actually deed property. Therefore, the the the current application uh needs to be revised. So, what staff is recommending is since we're not really here to annex the railroad property, we're just interested in annexing the city property. We're recommending that the application be withdrawn and will return with an application that exclude that excludes the rightway from this proposal.

Understood. So with this one, do you need a motion to actually officially make the withdrawal request or is it just simply the city is withdrawing? The city is withdrawing. Okay. Mr. Leonson, madam madam clerk, do I need a motion in any form? I don't think so. I mean, we're just going to come back with a new petition because I don't think we're going to be able to stop the railroad from coming through even though they're going using No, no, no. We really want to. They're they're moving people in goods. So, with that, um, the city being the petitioner, the city can also withdraw its own petition. So, is it done?

All right. Perfect. So, item 5.2 is just simply withdrawn at this time and we'll hear more about a subsequent application in the future. Council, any comments or questions on that one? All right, perfect. I appreciate your work on that. It's a little doughnut hole kind of sitting there that if we can go ahead and get kind of the the annexation buttoned up on it, then maybe we can move some development on it some other way. So, thank you for your work on that. Uh, Mr. Lewis, we'll go ahead and move to item 5.3. Well, since Mark is here on this one, I will let him proceed on special use 1125 accessory dwelling.

All right. Before you begin the brief, council, please note, and if you need to refresh your memory on the procedures, the voting procedures, this is the only special use permit uh that's on our agenda. Everything else is conditional zoning. This is the one that will require that four motion process, [snorts] that four motion test. So, you'll remember we will be seeking to be able to answer the question of will this materially endanger the public health and safety? Will it substantially injure the beneficial use of a joining or abing property? Will it be in harmony with existing development and will it be in general conformity with the comprehensive land use plan? Uh so those will be the four motions and questions that we will be answering. So with that in mind, Mr. Helmer, you'll need to be sworn in on this one since it is quasi judicial.

Okay. This case before you is uh SU11-25. This is for an accessory dwelling to be located at 120 uh Kelly Drive. Uh the property is approximately.7 acres. Uh the petitioner is Olivia Johnson. Um who's uh and the applicant is Carl uh Bernie. Uh the current zoning is residential 20. Uh existing land use is a single family dwelling. Uh the land use designation is medium density residential and the the request is for an accessory dwelling. Um in your packet is a a copy of this map here showing the the location of the property on Kelly Drive. Um the current uh uh land use designation is medium density residential. Uh in accordance with the city of Goldsboro's development ordinance article 5.4 Four, table of permitted uses. Accessory dwellings are permitted in all single family zoning districts or development developed lots with the exception of agriculture uh providing they first obtain a special use permit by city council. There we are. This is a a sketch of the the the property uh submitted by the applicant showing the accessory dwelling which would be this this structure right here. So um we [clears throat] do have some uh additional standards for this special use and that is uh the dwellings and apartments must comply with all applicable local state and federal housing codes. Uh the accessory dwelling or accessory apartment shall not exceed 40% of the square foot of the livable area of the principal structure. Accessory dwellings shall not be sighted to the rear of the principal or shall be sighted to the rear of the principal structure and all accessory dwellings shall meet the setback requirements established uh for the principal structure uh of the district in which they're located. The exterior of the accessory dwelling shall be uh compatible with the principal residential residence in terms of color,

sighting, roof pitch, uh windows detailing, roofing material, foundation, skirting uh skirting appearance. [clears throat] uh where there is no public sanitary sewer service to the accessory dwelling, county health department approval would be required. So um again, this shows the zoning as being R20. Um and then they've given us some sketches of of the work uh to be done. Um planning staff does find the request to be consistent with the R20 zoning district and complies with the supplemental standards of the UDO. Therefore, planning staff recommends approval of the request in accordance with the finding of fact for a special use. Um, city council is requested to review the petition uh uh conduct public hearing and make a decision in accordance with the finding a fact for special use permit. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Council, any questions for Mr. Helmer at this time? [snorts] Hearing none. Uh it's our practice that we invite the applicant up to speak and to be able to deliver any remarks if they so choose and then we actually move into the public hearing. So uh I see Miss Alvaro Johnson. Do you wish to come forward and speak on the purpose or is anything you'd like to add to the brief?

All right. So with that we will move into the public hearing. We are now on item 5.3. We'll officially open the public hearing. Uh, this is a public hearing for SU 1125, uh, 120 Kelly Drive and Accessory Dwelling. Is there anyone wishing to come forward and speak? Second call. This is item 5.3 on our agenda, SU 1125. Is there anyone wishing to come forward and speak? Third and final call. Is there anyone wishing to come forward and speak on item 5.3 on our agenda? An accessory drawing under special use [clears throat] permit 11-25. All right. Seeing none, we will close the public hearing. Uh, council, are there any comments or questions for Mr. Helmer on this one? Seeing none, is there any any del uh any deliberations amongst us? Seeing none, we have had the public hearing. We have had the opportunity for deliberations. Is there a motion that the use will not materially endanger the public health or safety?

I make a motion that the use will not endanger [snorts] public safety. All right. Is there a second? All right. Motion's been made and properly seconded that the use would not materially endanger the public health or safety. Is there any debate on that motion? Seeing none, we'll call the vote. All in favor, please vote electronically. Yes, we go. You're good. You're good. All right. All votes being tallied. The motion passes on a 6 vote. We'll [snorts] move to the second part. Is there a motion that the use will not substantially injure the beneficial use of adjoining or abuing property? Some move. Some move.

All right. Motion has been made and second. Motion has been made and properly seconded that the use would not substantially injure the beneficial use of adjoining or abunding property. Is there any debate? Seeing none, we will call the vote. Madame clerk, when you have when you're ready. I realize you're having to type and type and record and listen at the same time. So, thank you. All right. Second motion passes [clears throat] on a 60 vote. We'll move to the third motion and I'll talk a little bit slower so that our clerk is able to properly organize the minutes. Is there a motion that the use will be in harmony with existing development and uses within the area in which it is located?

I make that motion. All right. Motion has been made. Is there a second? Second. All right. Motion's been made and properly seconded. I believe there are two seconds. Take your uh take your pick. Uh that the use would be in harmony with existing development. Is there any debate? Hearing none, we'll call the vote. Please vote electronically if possible. [snorts] Motion passes on a 60 vote. All right, we'll move to the fourth and final uh question. Is there a motion that the use will be in general conformity with the city of Goldsboro's comprehensive land use plan? So moved. All right, motion's been made. Is there a second? Second. And motion's been seconded. Is there any debate? Hearing none, we'll call the vote. Uh please vote electronically if possible.

[clears throat] All right, motion passes on a 60 vote. All four motions having uh have been passed. SU whatever it was. SU 1125 an accessory dwelling at 120 Kelly Drive is approved. All right, Mr. Livingston, can we get started on 5.4? Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, uh 5.4 Four is another conditional zoning uh reszoning request and I'll have staff Mr. Talton will be presenting that one. They're tag teaming tonight. There you go. We've got enough work to go around tonight. Thank you, Mayor. Good to see everybody tonight. See you.

As Mayor I mean, sorry, manager Livingston said, um Mark and I have decided to to divide and conquer a lot of activity. [laughter] Sorry about that. You called me mayor. I got a promotion. You want to switch? You know what? It's [laughter] a uh I don't want that. It's an often thankless position, but you're welcome to it. Yeah, we can we can negotiate. Surely somebody called. Yeah. Very good. Very good.

All right. Uh let's get you started tonight uh with Eagle's Reach. Um this property is going to be located on the south side of US7 West, north of AOT Drive, and on both sides of Isaac Smith Road. I want to make sure everybody knows where this is located. This is 581 and 70 near the Rosewood community. Isaac Smith Road. If you have any questions with regards to the location, just let us know. So, here's the property itself. Uh, let's see. [clears throat] Got some clickers and my laser pointer here. So, again, this is the property in question. This is going to be a residential town home development. And these are three lots here at this time that are being considered I'm sorry, there's a detention pond at this time being considered for commercial use. So there's approximately 43 acres associated with this conditional resoning. The owner's Goldsboro Land Group and is also the applicant. Current zoning is for Wayne County Community at this time is under Wayne County's community shopping zoning district. The proposed zoning is for residential 6 and general business conditional zoning district. The proposed use again is for single family commercial development. The applicants requesting to reszone 43.24 acres of land from Wayne County's community shopping to residential six and general business connectional zoning to construct a 174 lot single family detached residential subdivision and three commercial lots. Surrounding zoning again is county's community shopping center to the north as well as to the south. It's also agriculture residential. To the east is city's shopping center. And to the west again, Wayne County Community Shopping.

Okay. So, here's a little bit better location here. This is 70 coming from the city. You'll see the Walmart shopping center, the Rosewood shopping center here. And if you'll follow my corner on down to Ivet Road, [clears throat] come here to the proposed development. In accordance with envision 35, this property is identified within the low and medium density land use categories. Although the requested residential conditional zoning district is not a corresponding zoning district in the low and medium density land use category, Goldboro's comprehensive land use plan encourages higher density development where water and sewer services are available. A mixeduse one land use category is located directly across US7 West from the subject's property. Medium density land use designation mix one will provide a mixture of commercial uses some of which may or may not have an impact on or produce in conflict with adjacent lower density districts. The proposed resoning we believe as staff believe that it is consistent with the land use and density recommendations of the UDO. All stated deviations from the UDO will be documented as conditions of this resigning request. Any deviation not declared shall meet or exceed the minimum standards of the city's UDO. Here is our land use map showing the majority of the property in a medium density residential land use designation with mixed use across the street of 70 highway. Site specific information again 174 single family. [clears throat] Uh this is attached lots as town home development with a density of 6.15 dwelling units per acre. You'll see to the bottom half of this slide. These are

the proposed improvements that the applicant will be proposing to be made. Roadways you'll see 3,700 linear feet. Water manes 5220 linear feet. Sewer mans 4900 linear feet. Sidewalks 7,700 linear feet. and trails 1500 linear feet. Everything will be [clears throat] dedicated over to the city of Goldsboro if this um reszoning is approved, as well as a site plan for future development, except for the trails, which will be private. Across the streets here at this time, you'll see two points of access to serve the proposed subdivision. Commercial lots directly across the street from the sub from the subdivision will also be from Isaac Smith Road. NC DOT will require rotor improvements for the commercial lots. Um at this point in time um there are no road improvements required for the subdivision. However, when these commercial lots are developed, we believe as always that NC DOT will have improvements to that roadway for the access of those commercial lots. As you'll see from this list of u amenities that being provided, uh the city water and sewer are going to be available through Fork Township. Uh planning officials have informed project engineers to reach out to Fork Township and Goldboro's fire department regarding proper water pressure and volume for fire protection purposes. The streets will be developed by the developers. 60 foot wide streets. Sidewalks will be provided on both sides of the streets connecting residential dwellings to other destinations. Street signs and lighting will be provided by the developer. Environmental conditions. A portion of the project contains delineated wetlands. All

proposed lots will be outside of those environmentally sensitive areas. [clears throat] storm water management and on-site collection system is proposed for all streets, driveways, and parking loading areas. They shall be assessed by utility easements granted to the city of Goldsboro for inspection purposes by engineering staff. There'll also be a male kiosk with parking associated with the subdivision with two monumental signs at each location to the subdivision. Landscaping will be provided that meets or exceeds the city's landscape ordinance. A 20- foot wide landscape buffer will surround the entire residential subdivision. [clears throat] A 28ft landscapecape buffer BM is proposed along the street frontage of the property providing a screening buffer for owners of the residential lots from traffic pedestrian promoting [clears throat] pedestrian privacy and comfort and contributing to the physical visual character of the neighborhood. You'll see here some building elevations for review. Of course, each town home will be built to North Carolina State Building Code. Preliminary subdivision review and approval. Again, if the resing is approved, the applicant will be required to submit his application for preliminary subdivision review. The technical review committee will ensure that the plan meets compliance standards for [clears throat] the zoning district. These are conditions of the R six conditional zoning district. I'll just go through a few. You have it in your packets. Um again, you'll see the setbacks. You'll see minimum lot size, sidewalks being provided, the landscape burn. We've already spoken about talking about some open space requirements. This particular plan provides 30% offering

enhanced green space and recreational opportunities for future residents. These are some agreed upon deviations from the minimum development standards of the city of Goldsboro's UDO. These deviations will become conditions of the R six zoning district. That is that the proposed development remains well below the maximum permitted uh under the R six zoning category. UDO also allows up to 7.3 dwelling units per acre, while the proposed plan reflects only a density of 6.15 units per acre. These are some architectural standards that will become conditions of the proposed R six conditional zoning district. You'll see that proposed town homes shall include two different footprints. A 24 foot wide on the outer units and a 22 a 20 foot for the inner units. Each town home will achieve a variety of colors for individual character. Moving on down, all town homes shall be two or even three stories in height. and all town homes number 10 shall provide detailed design elements using at least one of the features from each of the three categories [clears throat] below. The city council may modify any of these proposed conditions and add additional conditions if the requested are deemed necessary to protect the public health, welfare, and safety of the public. All other conditions placed upon the zoning district must be agreed upon by the applicant. At this time, staff's evaluation recommendation is that the conditional reser request is consistent with the recommendation of the comp plan and land use map. Staff is also of the opinion that the plan can provide for the public safety and meet

transportation utility demands for the subject property while maintaining sufficient levels of surface service to existing developments. staff believe that the proposed R six conditional zoning district and GB conditional zoning district will not impair or injure the health, welfare, and safety of the public. Staff believe that the proposed conditional zoning district and the general business conditional zoning district will address Gold's housing shortage, offering increased housing options and affordability while providing economic, social, and environmental benefits that enhance residents and their quality of life. Therefore, again, the planning [snorts] department is recommending the conditional reszoning district for the R six and the general business be approved with the following agreed upon conditions of approval. Planning Commission at their September 29th meeting unanimously voted to recommend approval of this reson request with the attached recommend recommended conditions of approval. City Council is now requested to review the petition for zoning, conduct a public hearing, and make a decision in accordance with the attached consistency statement to approve, deny, or table the request to a future date. Mayor, I had one last comment I wanted to to make. Again, if you have any questions with regards to the information in your packet, I know it's a lot. Um, but at this time, let's see see where I wrote that down. The applicant is here tonight. And

is that Mr. Spencer?

Uh, yes, sir. And it very well be another member of his team. I have one more comment I wanted to make. [clears throat] Again, we spoke of conditions that council could make. I just wanted to again I've already brought it to your attention one time before but it the water pressure was of concern because of the fire we had at a day gardens. So we want council to know that we've all been uh in touch with the developers. They know of that concern. We are also uh willing to make that a condition of this resoner request to ensure that there's adequate water pressure, water volume uh for fire protection uh of that development in that area. So again, with that being said, um I do know that they are going to present tonight with to you a copy of the permitted uses uh within the general business zoning district. um that list will include again only those uses that they would like to have approved and any of those uses that are not are not on that list cannot be considered for use in the future. Do you have any other questions of me for this public hearing?

Confident that we will before we get to actually voting. Yes sir.

So council so that we all have ground rules. This is not the special use permit like we just just had. This is conditional zoning. So we would be doing one motion to approve based on whatever conditions have been agreed to. Be it the list that Mr. Talton just briefed on or a modification to that list. So our uh our question is purely that and then as you said with the general business piece because this is a a dual kind of a dual purpose conversation here. [clears throat] There's the R six piece and then there's the piece of it that is general business as well. So, we would be approving that list of things that could potentially be there in the future. Um, there's a lot going on with this one. This is a a a big uh a big consideration. I saw your hand go up, um, Mr. Boyette, and then Miss Matthews.

Okay. Just two quick questions. Um um I see no issue with the request, but where is the annexation piece of this at at this time in the process? It's still ETJ now, but where are we with that? It's on the agenda for tonight. It's later in the agenda. Okay. Next question is since the uh fork is providing the sanitary sewer that means that the flow for this project comes out of their number and it doesn't change our number because they're operating under capacity we provided to them. Is that

it's still it still has to be flow metered and tracked because it is our capacity at our plant. So it impacts our capacity, but it is whatever capacity they have is really kind of our capacity at that point. [clears throat] Okay. That's what I wanted to be sure of because we we all lot them or there there's the agreement in place that provides them the capacity that they provide to the end user. That's correct. I just wanted to clarify that. Sure. One other question I have for the benefit of the board. Could you explain, Mr. Talton, if this is in the ETJ currently or not? This is not in our ETJ. This would be considered satellite annexation. Okay, Miss Matthews, floor is yours.

Um, my only thing was just for clarification purposes, um, just the spelling of the LLC and as well as the location. We're missing an S unless unless the group's name is Gold like there's no S. So, I guess I'm asking, is it Ghostboro or is their organization's name S Gold? Because, you know, we're used to seeing Gossboro, so I don't want to add a S if it's not supposed to be S. I don't think there's an S there. No, ma'am.

Okay. But, um, it also has that where the location is. Um, it's projected location as well. So, just for record purposes, we should probably get that updated. This is with the actual um the zoning application. The zoning application. Okay. We will get that corrected if necessary. Yes, ma'am. [clears throat] Any other comments, questions for Mr. Talton at this time? All right. Mr. T, do you mind going back to whatever aerial zooms out the most? Does Isaac Smith Road empty out in two directions? Does it go all the way from community to 581? Let's see.

I'm 83% sure that it does, but I haven't driven it in a while. So, here's 581. Yep. And let's see. Um, to my knowledge, right here is the road that connects to Westbrook and feeds right on in to Isaac Smith Road. And Isaac Smith Road goes all the way through Community Drive, Caroline. It actually it empties out right at that fruit stand, right?

I believe that's correct. Okay. All right. Okay. So, at least we do have two directions. Okay. Council, if there's nothing else for Mr. Talton at this time, again, it's our practice to invite the applicant up if they have anything they'd like to add to the brief before [clears throat] we actually open the public hearing. So, yes. So, so with this this annization that would satellite annization that we're going to talk about later on tonight, does that include our fire department and our police department? It does. Yeah. Well, the way that fire would be handled, actually, Mr. Livingston, elaborate [clears throat] on that just a little bit. Mr. Talton, would we be contracting with Rosewood for fire at least first round coverage? How does that work?

It would be similar to Well, it's out there. What is it? Abbotts that was was um Adair. Adair. Sorry. Yes. Those are all, you know, we're we're not the first responder. It's it's, you know, but we're through our MOU, but we we provide them fire service through them. And the police department is the same as we do in Walmart. Yes, we have to [clears throat] provide services for those locations because they're in the city limits or will be if we would be would be.

And for clarification, the uh annexation petitions for these um other items actually on the consent agenda. Um just the that's that part was sort of assumed. This would be the the meat of the discussion happens right here at the public hearing. So that's correct. That's correct. Tonight you'll be setting the public hearing for the actual formal annexation next month. All right. So with that, let's one more question. Oh yes, sir. Please. So with this annexation, whose district would that fall in? Probably. Well, you you'd said at the time that we actually get to, but probably one I would think one

because I know a dare apartments was hers. I thought I would think one. All right. Whoever's got a day or guess who is going to All right. Okay. All right. So, with that, let's invite the applicant forward if they have anything [clears throat] they'd like to add to the presentation. Right. Good evening, sir. Good evening.

Good evening. My name is Andy Mills. I'm with Caesars Engineering and Design. We're the applicants uh engineer for this project. Uh the one thing that I wanted to bring up first since it was mentioned a couple of times was about the water pressure. So, uh during our planning board meeting that was brought to our attention. So, we went ahead and and contacted uh Fork Township, coordinated with their consultant. They went out and did the flow test off of the hydrant one down here uh was it Westbrook and there's one just north of our property. There's a gap in between there. So, what we're proposing is to close that gap. We'll extend from West uh Westbrook intersection where the line ends. is an 8 in water line and we will extend it to the end of the 8 in water line that dead ends uh just about there where it says Isaac north of our property. So once they went out there and do the flow test uh the pressures were low. So once we made the connection and run the model uh for the most part it basically almost doubles the flow that will be coming up. So we have no problem with the fire flow and residual pressures. So, just wanted to make sure we went on and brought that to your attention. Um, also, um, once again, staff did a great job at presenting this project just like they did at planning board. So, there's not a lot I can I can say except just reiterate a few things. You know, we're trying to make this a very walkable community with the sidewalks on both sides of the road, trying to interconnect. We're we're utilizing uh some walking trails throughout the common areas to make it easy for anyone in any of the town homes to be able to get up to areas where we're uh proposing uh uh dog parks and recreational areas such as uh uh gazeos with little, you know, cookout stations

and things of that nature. Uh of course, storm water, we know we're meeting all the requirements. going into system collecting in the road going to the uh storm water uh plans for uh treatment and volume control. Um in regards to the commercial side, once again, we're requested to go ahead and have that um reszoned for uh the commercial uses being right there along the highway. And there will be road improvements once we start submitting to NC DOT. We had some conversations with them and they said, "Yeah, well, once we're decide what's going there, you know, you're not getting a permit till you meet our requirements anyway." So, we're good with that. Um, we did go ahead and uh [snorts] after planning board, we we had discussed, you know, there is just a list as you can see, we got about two-page list of or actually three pages that of different uses that can go into these type of zonings. And we actually went in there. We cut some of these down. We submitted a copy to uh uh the planner today. Uh I thought we had already sent that. And uh but anyway, we're we're trying to reduce a lot of a lot of the uses that we just don't feel like is going to fit with what we're trying to do right there across the street with a residential community. Um, also with uh, you know, we're trying to increase buffers uh, over what the UDO has. We're doing a 10% more increase on our open space. So, we feel like this is going to be a really nice neighborhood. Um, we have one one item I was just talking to staff about. We had sent um after our planning board meeting an email, but uh it looks like it didn't make it on on this presentation that we're going to discuss. I don't know if we need talk about now, but it's

it's just it what it is is on our materials that we're looking to use uh for these town homes. Once again, we're trying to create uh a good affordable home that people can get into here in the area. And on there, the way we've got it in our design standards for the town home, uh item number six, we were we had it listed in there to be um cement fiber uh for the uh our outside and only using vinyl at areas such as sophets and fascia, things of that nature. We would like to have the option to instead of doing strictly the uh uh the fiber cement siding to be able to offer a vinyl mix in there as well so that we can keep that home down to a good affordable price uh for people [clears throat] looking to purchase. And that's something I just spoke to the gentleman here uh before I came up and they said they think it's something, you know, we can work with. I just want to go ahead and be upfront, be transparent with with that. That's the only uh item that we really wanted to look at that was different than what you saw up here tonight. If there's any other questions, just feel free to the owner's representatives here tonight as well if you have any questions for them.

Council, any comments or questions for the applicant? Sir, thank you. Stick around if you would. We very very well may call you back up for additional questions in just a little bit. All right. All right. So, with that, let's open the public hearing. Again, this is a public hearing for item 5.4 CZ 325. This is uh again, this is only for this one. We'll move to other ones in just a minute. Item 5.4 CZ 325. The public hearing is now open. Anyone wishing to come forward and speak on CZ 325 Eagle's Reach. [snorts] All right, seeing none, we'll have a second call. Is there anyone to come forward and speak on item 5.4 CZ 325 Eagles Reach?

[clears throat]

Chris Cox, 104 Twin Oaks Place. Um, owner of Cox Construction and Properties. I'm a commercial land broker here in Goldsboro. This is a good project. I've never seen this guy before. I've never seen this before tonight. But this is a good project. It's in a good place. You can stand on the road in Isaac Smith and you can see Walmart, Chick-fil-A, I mean uh Smithfields Chick and Barbecue. This is where this type of project needs to be. It's great location, good access. They're going to fix the water issues if there was any. So, I just wanted to make that point that this is what Gold needs. We're totally behind the makeball and and you know, houses that people can afford and that's my opinion, but it's in contrast to another one that's on the agenda tonight. Just thank you.

Well, we'll get we'll get to other ones in a minute, but for this one, you're speaking in favor. Perfect. Yes, I'm in favor. Very much so. [snorts] Is there anyone else wishing to come forward and speak on CZ 325 Eagle's Reach? Will be a third and final call. All right, seeing none, we will close the public hearing. Uh, council, what comments, questions, so I know who [clears throat] to ask back up to the podium. Where would we like to begin? I I just have one quick one. Yes, sir. Please.

I do think it's an excellent project and I do think we need to grow on that end of the city. [clears throat] My only apprehension is emergency services cuz we're already stretched thin as far as police are concerned. I just wanted to make sure that we we can cover that and give them the the protection that they need for emergency services. [clears throat]

And that's a valid comment. Uh, thank you, Commissioner White. Um, we do, like I said, have mutual aid agreements set up with, um, the Rosewood Volunteer Fire Department. [clears throat] They will probably be the primary in case we had such a incident [snorts] to occur. I do know that Chief West uh can provide our police protection, but again, that's also with assistance from Wayne County Sheriff's Department, which they currently have for that area right now for Walmart and the other existing [snorts] shopping center. But yes, sir. Um duly noted.

Mr. Talton, on this one, you I to me it is always a big leap to go all the way to to R six on something. At least with this one, you do have, you know, of course Walmart across the street and you do have um you know, Adara Place, which is R six um you know, closely closely located with Isaac Smith Road. Can that road handle traffic? You do have two exits. I get that. You know, from will there be traffic impact analyses? How does that work? Again, speaking with DOT, uh DOT is not requiring any road improvements for this project at this time there, but very well could be as that development continues along Isaac Smith Road. And again, with the commercial developments across the street from the town home development, very well could see some

Looks like Isaac Smith Road is um is is going to be appealing. All right. Yes, sir. Council. [clears throat] Um, any other comments, questions for Mr. Telton? Yes, Mr. Telton. As long as council doesn't have anymore. Just had a couple. One thing as uh the gentleman uh from the development spoke of, I wanted to make sure this everybody have a copy of the per the uses that they were wanting to include within the general business zoning district. Do you have that? Do you have the title of which attachment it is? Each one of them is it's in there. I remember clicking it.

Eagles reach section two allowed uses for the conditional zoning district for the general business conditions only. I thought I clicked it right page number. Anybody? I was thinking he said he just gave you that today. I didn't know you had it already. We did not get it. Okay. If it's not in there, it was a different one that I clicked. Thank you, Councilwoman. So, with that, Mr. Talton, would you mind reading it into the record? Um, [clears throat] sure. It's it's a long list. I did not know if we had copies for the council or not. Does do we have copies of the journal?

It's three pages long. It's three pages long. Okay. Then, and so this is the list of things that would be permitted. Um, it may be shorter, Mr. Titan, if you and you've been doing this a long time, I don't want to put you on the spot. Sure, I'll be glad to go through it. Are there things that stand out that are not permitted? Because obviously we understand general business is all inclusive. Are there things that are expressly not included that you believe are of note and take your time if you need to. I realize this awkward standing at the podium. [clears throat] Auto painting and body shops is expressly prohibited. Would this would be prohibited? Yes sir.

Any automotive repair? Any automo sales new bus terminals charter bus services. Now, he's also submitted u a list of special uses, but again, keep in mind this is not a regular traditional zoning district. This is a conditional zoning district. So, there won't be any special uses. Whatever council permits, if you would approve this tonight, that's what is included as a use by right for the zoning district. But, so I wanted to bring that to your attention. special.

Okay. So, the special uses right now everything that u um [clears throat] is crossed out again adult establishments would not be a part of this resoning request. um cemeteries, automobile sales used, borrow pits, cell towers, uh crematoriums, internet cafes, border towers, and there is a and there is a hard copy being circulated. It's working its way down the desk. Yes. Uh sexually oriented businesses, tattoo parlors, trucking terminals, and services. Those are ones that stand out to me that would not be considered as uses by right in this district.

Having scanned that, and again, I know I'm putting you on the spot here. Having scanned that, is there anything on there that you would request this council uh simply table and allow you time to go back and discuss? I realize you've got Mr. Helmer, if you, you know, would like to look as well, that's up to you. I want to make sure that everyone that council as well as all layers of administration are versed on what we would be approving because as you say there are no future special use permits. It would be an approved list. So this is our one chance to make sure we get it correct. Sir, I mayor I have no other um comments regarding the use. I have no objections to what he's proposed.

Okay. And everything that's marked out is what it cannot be. That's correct. That's correct. All right, Mr. yet. I saw your hand go up. Yes, sir. Um [clears throat] I I don't recall in two decades of planning of of this GB being tossed into this sort of request. However, if I'm understanding this correct, the applicant is simply stating these are the things that would be allowed in GB that we're proactively saying will not be allowed in GB. They're not asking for something that would not be.

They're they're basically limiting not adding. Is that correct? Okay. Well, and that's certainly okay. So, just one other comment outside of this. It becomes a separate district. So, it's general business conditional and they've specified what they're allowing within that district through that piece of paper there that we That's good. and and in reviewing um that list, it looks like it's in keeping with the conformity of everything else that's in that Walmart shopping center and in that area. In many ways, it is to that point narrowed down to neighborhood business already. It's it's very close. Yes, ma'am.

At least from what I recall. Give this just a few more minutes to let it work its way all the way across the deis.

Madame clerk, would you like the list of permitted uses read into the record or can we simply hold on to the hard copy and hand it to you and it'll be included in the official? Yes, sir. I was going to add it to the agenda packet and then I can add it into the minutes. Perfect. Just making sure. Um, yes, sir.

And I I don't have an issue with this because I I get what the the applicant's doing is he's proactively limiting the available uses within that GB as it stands basically to protect the homes and the integrity of the other businesses there. So that I that's all I wanted to clarify was this was a step back, not a step forward with existing GB. So I I commend the the applicant because that will certainly control that property as we approve it no matter what happens moving forward unless it was to come back again. So

and those uses that were considered as special uses um at this time um they do have supplemental regulations. We will continue to enforce those supplemental regulations with as a permitted use. Mayor, the only other comment I have with your permission is just to please

to u let you know that uh uh as the applicant stated uh they did provide a fireflow analysis for staff. We have shared that with our fire marshall and our fire department chief. Um they are currently um reviewing it, asking questions of the development just to make sure that um they have a a a comfort level with the establishment and if everything again checks out just like you've said um they of course would want to to move forward with it. But again, uh, they did want to let you know tonight that, uh, just because they received it today, they want to make sure their eyes are dotted and tees crossed before they make any judgment at this time

on exactly what those approved exactly. And again, that's what the comment I made. Again, we're going to make sure even if the resonance approved, we still have to go through site plan development and uh, the application process. if they meet those requirements, those regulations, uh that's all going to be encompassed in that review process. So again, they we won't even break ground until that issue has been resolved with or without the reszoning.

All right. So y'all correct me. The form of motion on this one uh would be that based on the conditions recommended by planning staff. Is there any additional language that I need to add to that since there's a couple things that are added here or is it based on the conditions recommended by planning staff. Do we all agree on what those are?

We'll make sure that staff is conferred so that the minutes can be accurately reflected and there's no debate about this later. Right. So the items that we mentioned today with regards to applicant mention mentioned the vinyl sighting and it being used in other um uh construction in the in your brief there were a list of bullets. Was that one of the bullets? I thought so. So were there is there anything on your list of bullets that was not other than the list that was just circulated? think of anything outside of the fireflow report.

All right. Okay. So, with that, the conditions recommended by planning staff for the record would be the list of businesses to be excluded from the general business zoning list, the fireflow report, and the bulleted list provided as part of the brief. Yes, sir. Is that correct? All clear on what we're discussing? So when we say based on is there a motion to approve based on the conditions recommended by planning staff it's those three things those three lists. Are we all good?

All right. So with that is there a motion to approve or to deny based on the uh to adopt the ordinance uh with the inclusion of the consistency statement based on the conditions recommended by planning staff or the contrary. Mayor, I would make a motion that we approve item CZ 325 as recommended and presented by staff to us. All right, I'll make a second. All right. Motion's been made and properly seconded. Uh, Madame Clerk, you agree? Is that accurately for what you need? Well, hold on. I haven't even got called debate yet. Yeah, we're good. You good? All right. Uh, council, is there any debate on that? hearing. None. Please cast your vote electronically if possible.

Give it 10 seconds for that.

I didn't. I did not. Did I? I think I closed the public hearing. Finish if you don't mind. I thought that I did at the third one. All right. So, with that, so point of order, I need to go back officially close the public hearing. Public hearing is closed. I thought I did that after the third one. I did not. I didn't note it. I'm sorry.

No, you're good. Now we're officially done that. So, a motion is now on the floor. Motion made and properly seconded to approve with subject to the conditions stated herein. Uh [clears throat] votes are being tallied. Um all in favor, please raise your hand. All oppose, same sign. Seeing none, motion. There we go. Perfect. Motion passes unanimously. All right. Motion passes on a 60 vote. council. With that, we have moved through the lion share of well, I say that we have moved through uh at least a couple of our public hearing pieces. It is our practice that after an hour and a half, which would be 7:00, we do take a quick nature break. Council uh is is 10 minutes adequate. I want everyone to be able to take a proper uh proper break and strand out for just a second. All right. So with that we will reconvene at 7:05 Apple time. Stand in recessely.

over. Uh, we've made it halfway through our public hearings. Uh, for those following along on our agenda, we just finished uh, CZ 325, which is item four on our agenda. We'll now be moving to CZ425, which is item [clears throat] five on our agenda. Uh, Tucker Trace. Uh this is another one that is conditional zoning. As I said earlier, the special use permit we did earlier is the only one that is special use. This one will also be uh conditions uh laid upon the zoning uh the zoning layer uh at the guidance of our planning department. So with that, Mr. Livingston, anything to add or we go straight back to No introductory comments, Mr. Mayor.

Easy enough. Mr. Talton, Mr. Helmer, one of you. There we go. All right. So you'll see again title of this reasoning is Tucker Trace. This property is located on the south side of Tommy's Road between US Highway 117 North and Deans Lane. Here's a [clears throat] top down view of conceptual site plan. If you'll follow my pointer here, this is 117 the extension of North William Street. Here's Tommy's Road to your right. Tommy's Road comes all the way where there used to be a connection here. Uh there is no longer connection at this time. There's a culde-sac that terminates at the end of this road. Here is a private access road called Deans Lane. This is not a public road, a private road. Let's see. Moving forward, this is for a residential subdivision consisting of 120 single family detached residential lots and four commercial lots proposing to be within the corporate limits of the city of Goldsboro. As you'll see, the small lots here are all proposed as residential with the larger lots along Tommy's being commercial. Moving forward, this property is approximately 56 acres. The owner Marks Farms, the applicant again is Marks Farms LLC, care of Mr. Matt Batson. The current

zoning for this property is highway business residential 16. The proposed zoning is for residential [clears throat] six and general business conditional zoning districts. The proposed uses for single family and commercial development. Our current zoning mat again highway business R16 additional sorry that's existing zoning surrounding zoning to the north is R16 RM9 to the south R16 east R16 and west general business here's our future land use map showing medium density residential this area, mixed use and mixed use too. Our envision 35 which is our comprehensive land use plan identifies the property as being within the medium density mixeduse one and mixed use two land use categories. medium and density highdensity residential land uses have been designated for areas that have water or sewer or there are plans to extend water sewer service to those areas. Although the requested R six conditional zoning district is not a corresponding zoning district in the medium density land use category, goals comp plan encourages higher density development where city water and sewer services are available or will be available. The mixed use one and two land use categories allows for a mixture of commercial uses, some of which may or may not have an impact on or produce some conflict with adjacent lower

density districts. Although the general business zoning district is not a corresponding zoning district within the medium density land use category, staff believe that commercial development could promote highquality accessessible developments serving the needs of the community and the surrounding area. At this time, the proposed resoning we believe is consistent with the land use and density recommendations of the UDO. In some sight specific information, the developer is planning on providing 5600 linear feet of roadway, 6,800 linear feet of water manes, 5,600 linear feet of sewer manes, 3,200 linear feet of sidewalks, and 2600 linear feet of private trails. Here you'll see coming off of Williams Street are two access points into the proposed subdivision which [clears throat] is a state maintained street. Uh according to NC DOT, no roadway improvements will be required for this proposed subdivision. [snorts] The [clears throat] proposed 120 lot subdivision will be constructed as a fourphase residential development project. If it were approved, it would begin in July of 2026. [clears throat] Here again is a conceptual plan of the single family residential lots and commercial lots. These are open spaces here where there's an existing cell tower. Other spaces are reserved for storm water control measures. as well as active and passive

open space areas. Density 2.6 dwelling units per acre is being proposed. Sewer and water will be extended by the developer to the site from Commerce Drive. developer will be responsible for public streets, sidewalks, parking, street signs, and lighting. A portion of the project does contain a protected blue line stream with repair and buffers and delineated wetlands. All proposed lots will be outside of these environmentally sensitive areas. These areas will be owned and managed by a homeowners association. The Blue Line stream crossing will meet the city of Goldil standards and be permitted by the Department of Environmental Quality. Of course, the site will have to meet our storm water prevention ordinance. They have been identified on this site plan. This is a some easements to our storm water control components of this site. Here's a a rendering of the subdivision sign which there will be two located at each entrance. There will be a mail kiosk and parking associated with mail delivery. Again, there will be a required open space that will be provided with 18.9 acres of open space. Will include active playgrounds, basketball court, mail kiosk, and walking trails, and passive stormwater green space, and require buffer areas. Landscaping

will exceed our ordinance. A 15t wide type B buffer will surround the entire development. These are some building elevations of the proposed homes again built to the North Carolina building code. If it's approved, this reszoning will be required to the applicant will be required to make application for preliminary subdivision review of which our TRC will review the plan for compliance [clears throat] with development standards and conditions of the zoning district. The following are agreed upon [snorts] deviations from our minimum development standards of our UDO. These deviations will become conditions of the zoning district. The applicant has proposed the following as conditions for the requested R six conditional zoning district approval. See the height says twotory maximum. Any canon levered projection shall have cosmetic bracket self-s support directly underneath them. Uh all dwelling units shall have either a twocar or a onecar garage. Garage door shall have windows or decorative hardware. All corner lot units shall have a minimum of one window facing the public rightway. [snorts] To ensure a visual variety and maintain aesthetic appeal, no home will feature the same exterior sighting and trim color combination as a house directly adjacent to or directly across the street from it. Planning staff is of the opinion that the conditional reszoning request is consistent with the recommendations of the comp plan and the land use map with regards to medium density residential mixed use one and two land use designation.

Staff is of the opinion that the project will provide for the public safety and meet transportation utility demands while maintaining sufficient levels of service to existing developments. Planning staff is of the opinion that the R six general business zoning district will not impair or injure the health, welfare, and safety of the public. As well as that, we believe the proposal will address Gold's housing shortage, offering increased housing options [clears throat] and affordability while providing [snorts] economic, social, and environmental benefits that enhance residents and their quality of life. Therefore, the planning staff is recommending approval of the proposed R six general business conditional zoning district with all agreed upon conditions. So, the planning commission uh at their September 29th meeting voted unanimously to support this proposal with the attached recommended conditions of approval. You will see that in your packet tonight. You'll also see in front of you uh something that was the clerk has just passed to you showing the permitted uses that are being requested of the applicant and those that are being prohibited by the applicant. [clears throat] At this time, mayor, this concludes staff's presentation and available for comment or question.

All right, council. What comments, questions do we have for Mr. Talton at this time? Yes, sir. I see your hand up. It's [clears throat] been so long ago, I can't remember. When I remember as a planning chair visiting this site with a developer years ago that was looking to put a automobile dealership there. Is it possible that you know what year that was? Cuz I have another question as why I'm asking that. I know it's been a [clears throat] long time ago. I was here at that time. I remember those hearings. Uh unfortunately, I do not know the exact date of when that was done.

Well, did we back then take any action with a change of zone or so far [cough and clears throat] back? I can't remember because the reason that I wanted to know that and I miss our next speaker says they're going to answer that question but the reason that I asked just so folks will know was whether or not that discussion happened before or after 2013 whenever I the committee that I chaired redid the comp plan the last time and designated what this property was. said that's why I was asking was it before after 13 but it looks like somebody's going to provide that answer

very good I do believe um again there was quite a a couple of hearings I believe on this particular piece of property I wanted to [clears throat] say that it was reszone to highway business um conditional it was a condition at that time because there was discussion about like you said uh Councilman Boyette about the new car dealerships and a transitional zone owning district O and I being located near the rear of the site so that it would be a adequate buffer to any residential uses in that area or that we're going to be hopefully in the future if there were. But u again I'll defer back to the anybody that wants to speak at

I was just curious whether or not it was before or after 13. So yeah I it was after 13 cuz I was here at that time I was here over in the plane department. You don't have to date yourself. Sorry. Yeah, let me do that. I'm good. Anyone else have comments or questions for Mr. Talon at this time? All right, don't go too far. All right, it is our practice that we then invite the applicant up to come and speak if they have anything to add to the brief. [clears throat]

Good evening, Mayor Castle. Um, I'm Robert Bartlett, Bartlett Engineering and Surveying. Um, representing the applicant for this request. Um, uh, not a whole lot to add, I don't guess, to what staff has presented and what planner board has approved. Um, however, we do understand that, um, uh, letters been written and expressing some opposition and some some concerns related to this. So, uh, maybe I will point out a few things that that haven't been pointed out. Um, first of all, I guess related to the current zoning. Um, the majority of the property being currently zoned highway business. Um, although conditional, still zone highway business with what's being proposed. Um, much less commercial. So we've certainly reducing the intensity of what's being proposed, smaller amount of cond um commercial and u more residential. Um I understand there you know certainly may be concern about the the R six designation and being um a greater density uh than that R16 that exists. Um however um looking at the plan and what's being proposed uh the density is at a 2.6 six. So, you know, that's a a pretty low density for residential. Um, so even though the the R six would tend to be a a medium to a to a little bit higher uh density zoning, the plan that is being proposed uh is more in the line with a low density zoning. Uh so feel that that's important. Um uh the letter that we uh uh did see um on behalf of the adjoining property owners expressed concerns with storm water. Um understand that maybe since the uh bypass was put

in and interchange they've experienced some issues there. Um you know all I can say with that is as you know any development has to meet storm water regulations. Um there's requirements for controlling peak flow. So uh peak flow does not exceed uh with postdevelopment does not exceed the pre-development. So certainly all of that will be addressed. Um the uh the developers really tried to do some things to uh what we feel protect the adjoining property owners. Um we recognize that uh you know maybe some what you would consider estate homes uh there adjoining the property and um are providing that buffer perimeter landscape buffer the whole way around it um uh at staff's recommendation as we work through the proposed plan. Um there is one stub street that would be stubbing towards Deans Lane as you know with subdivision regulations require stubbing to adjoining properties providing service to adjoining properties but recognizing with the uh private drive there basically Dean's lane serving those properties and understanding that you know really don't may not want a connection uh the plan is providing a rightaway stub uh just one uh to to meet the requirements to do that uh but with the plan and you may not have seen this or realize this but um uh the plan is to provide the rightway but leave the street improvement short and provide additional buffer there. Um so not only where the homes are but even with the stub street providing buffer to that adjoining property. Um, also if you look back, uh, can we can we go to the plan?

Yeah. So, that one will be good. Um so if you notice it's really a a very limited number of residential lots that directly abut the joining property there. Um so we just we feel like with the combination of reduced commercial um buffers being provided uh the limited number of residences um abuing the joining property. uh feel the development is really proposing um to to do all it can to protect that development um adjacent to it. We you know recognize that a lot of times people in somewhat more rural areas um don't want development coming but um you know the properties uh in the ETJ. It's not similar to the to the last proposal um that was presented that was outside the ETJ. This is in ETJ is already zoned. You know, it could go in there right now with uh highway business zoning. And um uh another thing the letter brought up, I believe, was concerns with traffic. DOT has seen the plan. Um do have an email back. staff has that um that uh at this time DOT sees no issues with the plan or with traffic concerns um or with any uh road improvements to be required. Um that could certainly change once commercial site plan is submitted. Um what's proposed right now is primarily the residential with the commercial coming at a future date. Um so DOT would certainly be looking at that in the future when a site specific for commercial plans are submitted and um they would certainly require whatever needed to accommodate the transportation and traffic. Um the uh I believe you do

have um was handed out the list for the commercial. Um those are the uh items that would be prohibited. Um pretty extensive of the more um intense and maybe less desirable type uses that are otherwise allowed in general business um are specifically uh prohibited and excluding with this request. Um so uh any questions or anything else I may be able to answer? be [clears throat] glad to do that. Council comments or questions for the applicant.

All right. I want to ask one. You you referenced the density, the actual density number and that it was actually a little bit less dense than the R six that's being requested. Um, by any chance have y'all had that conversation? What would it if it goes through as currently suggested? Would that be equivalent to a a 16 or 12 or is there or do we is it really and truly R six based on the math? I think mayor what he's talking about is the actual lot sizes are the R six and the but when they're looking at the density they're calculating all the open space and other things in that factor. Is that not correct? Yeah.

Okay. And if I may, I think that was question was directed more to staff, but um so in in working with staff through it, just felt that the R six was sort of the most appropriate based on lot sizes. Um you know, but there again with the amount of open space and and other particulars to the property and the number of lots within that acreage, you know, it would it would certainly fit an R16. I mean, you could call it an R16 as long as [snorts] um those lot sizes and setbacks that are presented and proposed were part of the conditional R16 zoning. Um this type of subdivision like conservation design.

It's it's like conservation design subdivision. So, they're taking the sensitive environmental area and by decreasing the lot sizes, they're able to have preserve the open space and um enhance sensitive environmental areas. towards the top of the map. Is that what you're Yeah. [clears throat] All right. Council, any other comments, questions for the applicant? All right, sir. If you'd have a seat and then again, don't go far in case there are additional questions.

All right, so with that, let's open the public hearing for item 5.5 on our agenda, uh, CZ 425, Tucker Trace. Is there anyone to come forward and speak? [snorts] Mr. Mayor, before my comments, I I hope you'll allow me to just repeat the request that I made previously. Um, we learned about this situation on October 7th, and I would ask that this hearing be continued to give us time to get prepared. We'll do it as part of as part of your time, but if there are any additional things that you'd like to add because obviously council does have deliberations in front of them. Mayor, may I interject for just a moment, please?

Out [clears throat] of fairness to Mr. Smith at the [snorts] break he asked if he could have more time than 5 minutes and then can he [clears throat] pause his time right now? Yeah, we'll we'll Yeah, then I believe Mr. Metsler asked someone else to ask if he could defer his five minutes to Mr. Smith that come up. I just had the rules that certainly you're the way the rules are written is each speaker can only speak once, right? Each speaker has a fivem minute time limit,

right? Under paragraph three, it does state unless otherwise authorized by the presiding officer. And so I just point that out. So because the request was made before Mr. Smith started to talk, I thought it'd be fair for you to know that so you can and the council can decide how you're going to proceed because these are your rules, not my rules. Unless council uh opines to the contrary, I would like to remain consistent with our policy as stated at five minutes per speaker. Again, I I would like to remain consistent. I feel like we've done that very We've been very consistent for the last couple of years. I want to stay that way unless there's any objection from council. Okay. I have a question. Yes. Yes, ma'am.

Um with he with him already requesting to have it continue, can we deliberate on that to see if we're going to honor that request before we even get into the five minutes and the speakers? because there's a request that um I would like for us to consider before we if that's

well the the the hesitation there I do think it is something that we need to consider but right now this is the the published public hearing and the applicant would generally be the one that is saying if they want to if they want to request a continuence or if they want to walk it back for a minute we would you know honor that because they're the applicant if we if we open the door to anyone with an objection requesting a continuence and by default getting that. I don't feel like we're doing our I don't feel like we're doing our justice to the applicant themselves. So, I'd like to continue with the public hearing. Again, just in deference to all involved. I'd like to continue the public hearing. We can restart the clock and allow allow Mr. Smith to uh

Okay. And your honor, with with all due respect, [clears throat] I would uh by my calculations, people speaking on behalf of this has spent 21 minutes talking about their efforts to support this project. You're you're cutting us to just a few minutes and they've had months to prepare and we've been asked for we've just asked for a little bit of time to to be able to respond.

You very well may get it. Mr. Smith, I'd like to remain consistent with our policy. I'd like to remain consistent with each people, each person having five minutes. Again, the purpose of having the applicant come up forward is to allow those that want to make comments to be able to make those comments in the most informed manner possible. So, if it's possible, I'd like to, you know, go back to the public hearing, get in order. U Mr. Metsler, I believe you wanted to begin, Mr. Metsler, and then uh whoever chooses to come next. All right. Hello everybody. Thanks for giving me some time. I want to talk a little bit about what peak flow is. They said that uh storm water was designed to meet peak flow. This is peak flow if you will.

This is peak flow at Dean Lane. Yeah.

Um I'm going to talk a little bit about we had to divide this up a little bit about our water concerns right now at about a 2-in rainfall event. my driveway floods, Wilman's driveway floods. Uh we're taking the bulk of the water off a 53 acre site. Currently, there's zero impervious area on this site. It's 100% farm field. I've got some pictures not included in that. After a big rain, the field is covered with water where it sits. We're talking about adding impervious area and a lot of it. We had asked for a continuence to push this off so we could get our engineer up here to talk. He needs a little more time for the calculations. Just looking at the rough math, and I know they've got storm water control devices, but we're looking at adding an additional 300,000 gallons of water. That's got to go somewhere when you uh when when it rains 1 in. So, picture a gallon of water when you pour it in a field. Where does it go? Sits in the field. If you pour it on a sidewalk, it's got to go somewhere. So, the storm water devices are are helpful, but at the end of the day, it's got to go under a 18-in covert at Dr. Wilman's house and a 30-in covert under my driveway. Both of those are on private property. Uh, I heard the gentleman that spoke before me talk about um, everybody is opposed to development. We are not opposed to development. Uh, the resulting request was in 2016. We found a way to work with car dealership to put a car dealership there where it wouldn't impact our property. And that, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, will not impact traffic. How many people work at Deacon Jones? Maybe 15. How many people are on the lot buying a car? Maybe 15 on a really good day. If we're putting 120 houses that can each have two cars, that's 240 vehicles trying to get out onto William Street without a stoplight across five lanes of traffic. I would encourage council to go out to this intersection at 5:00 and try and leave. Mr. Like I've

heard you mention before traffic concerns. This is a major concern to get folks out of our neighborhood and onto William Street. Uh traffic's going to be a big one. Water is going to be a big one. We're not as concerned with property value. I think the uh the open space is a little deceptive because if you look at your map when you go back and review it, all the open space is unbuildable areas. It's within the fall radius of the cell tower. It's within the power line easements. So, if it's the same as R16, let's keep it R16 because R16 equates to 60 houses, not 120 houses because they can't put them in those open spaces. These are areas that you cannot build.

What am I foretting? Um, we're not we're not anti-development. Oh, one other thing. The the the guy before me did say that he wanted to be a good neighbor. They talked about putting in buffers. Uh we got some people from the neighborhood here. Has anybody been contacted by the developer? [clears throat] [snorts] If if you would direct direct your comments for it. I understand. I understand.

No, nobody has been contacted by the developer. This is a plan that was put in place by developer. My fear is y'all are going to reszone it. It's going to be zoned. It's going to be a shovel ready project for something the least restrictive business district, the highest density residential housing, and then y'all lost control of it. I know they've said some things that they're not going to put there, but once it's general business, if they go market it and sell it to somebody else, it's general business. I mean, I have not seen the list. It was not part of the P uh public packet that they sent out saying what could not go there. But you y'all are losing your chance to control the property. And that that's a shame in my eyes. Uh the city of Goldsboro has very limited commercial space available. This is prime for commercial development. It's why we thought the car lot would be good there. This is not a good spot to put 120 houses to try and get out on William Street.

Come on. All right. There you go. You're fine. Sorry, but I'm trying to move quick.

No, you're you're fine. You're fine. We're not going to start the clock until you're until you're in place. I What am I doing with this? So, [snorts] I'm going to have to skip around a little bit because of the time limitation that I've got. And again, I will renew my request to um to [snorts] postpone this public hearing or reschedu it for completion at a later date. Uh we we do have serious concerns about the storm water. Uh Mr. Metsler uh didn't didn't get to it, I don't think, but um we see the flood or the water coming off this property is tripling because of the imperous surfaces created by this. Oh,

the timer didn't start. I might eat [snorts] them. There you go. If you would just put it at 4:30 and let's go. Okay. So, give give us just a second, please. Okay. It is working on it.

All right. Okay. I'll start from a different point.

Thank you. Um, [clears throat] one thing that that I that I trust I hope this council is familiar with is the legislation was passed in 2024 um relating to downzoning of properties. Uh, and I'm seeing a couple of nods, but but essentially if you do this, it can't be changed back. That's a new law [snorts] passed in 2024. Um I I would encourage the council to consider coats cannons uh published by the school of government which talks about this issue and and essentially a landowner has a claim against or you actually without permission or without the request and consent of a developer. You can't ever downzone property once you've allowed it with broad uses available. you you cannot it is illegal to reszone it to a higher level. You couldn't go from R six to to R16 ever again. Um so um the the hearing was in 2015 and I've got the the uh minutes of that back in my or the result of that prior hearing actually right here in front of me. It did go at that point from R16 to Highway and a 300T buffer of R16. the the the neighbor the the property owners that were there then are largely there now and they did not oppose that as long as they got their 3000 ft buffer. That deal was done. It was all R16 before this. They went along with this. This is a whole different animal. What the council's required to consider pursuant to your ordinance is that whether the proposed zoning resoning corrects an error or meets a challenge of some changing condition, trend or fact that does not apply. Second, the proposed resoning is compatible with the city of Gossbur's comprehensive plan and accompanying land use plan. Well, the

comprehensive plan recommends this for medium density housing or mixed use. the medium uh uh R6 is not in medium density housing. Um the the other issue is and this is not level, but I'm not going to lose my time to it. Um you look around for other R six, there's nothing. This is our site right here. Reszone Highway Business and R16. There is nothing that is in R six. There's an R9 right here across the road, but it looks like it's for one tiny little development, but it is completely incompatible with the existing land uses or with the existing zoning. The other thing that is directed by I'm sorry to the extent that you can't see it there. You can see south of [clears throat] it there. Again, no R six anywhere near it. Um the next the other issue the other aspect of this is is it [clears throat] consistent with existing land uses. If you look at the existing land uses adjoining this property the average average acreage for one resident one residence is over 11 acres. this existing property is is a very very low density development. You're required to con con consider whether or not this is inconsistent with existing land uses. And I submit to you that it is neither consistent with the zoning nor consistent with the land zone with the land uses. We've t y'all talked about city services. I'm not going to get into that too much. Um, and the last thing is, will it impair or injure the health, safety, and general welfare of the public? Um, we've heard a statement about

traffic. It's a concern. It takes several minutes. Last thing I'm going to point out, and I don't like doing this, but you've also got to consider the developer. In this case, the the developer uh is owned by the same people as um as uh MarkX clearing and grading. And in the last couple of weeks, they've been served with a lawsuit uh seeking $6 million in damages for failing to develop, failing to build the roads, the infrastructure as they contractually agreed to do. $6 million out of an $8 million project. They say it's done wrong. The allegations are they failed to properly construct the roads. The crowns in the roads were missing. They were dangerous shoulders. There was settling of all the conduit crossings. There was seam cracking. There was cracking pavement. There were uh improperly installed shoulders.

Uh grading was performed poorly fabricated. That is your time. However, I'm sure there I'm sure there are other speakers and so thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um yeah, if you would like to. Yeah. Um I have a question about these photos. Yes.

Um so on that map that you had, can you show me where these photos were taken? Um, these the photos were all taken along Dean's Lane and and actually the other map that was shown by Mr. Talton earlier would do a better job of that. Um, if you I don't know if we can pull that back up on the screen or not. [clears throat] But yeah, and he's taller than I am so he can point it out better than I can.

So the photos I'll get to the bigger [clears throat] If we can if we can do it quickly, we will. If not, I want to allow anyone else is here to speak and then of course we can continue with questions. Anyone can be pulled back. That's my driveway.

[clears throat] Yes, sir. Um, my question, Mr. Smith, Mr. Smith, it was for Mr. Smith. I just wanted to to learn more about that law that you said about in 2024. My specific question is you're saying if we approve this as a R six, we couldn't change it to a R16. It will always be a R six. Not without the consent of the land owner at the time.

Okay. So, the land owner would have to agree that they want it to go to a R16 for us to change it. But the likelihood of that happening giving the proposal now, not including the current applicant, just given the proposal now, that is probably unlikely because it's more beneficial to be a R six. But the land itself is really suited for a R16 if it's going to be some residences proposed for that. Correct. Okay. and and go ahead. I'm sorry. [clears throat]

I've not seen any record of the limitations on the general business, but do I understand that there are actually limitations provided that were submitted to the council but not submitted to us? Okay. Thank you. I I Yes, sir. Go ahead, Mr. White. I [snorts] know that um Mr. Metler said that some of the land out there was in inhabitable. You couldn't build upon it. Is that the reason why it was coded zoning it the way it's zoned? I I I do I can't answer that question. I just know there is a gas line underneath that and and their overhead power lines and so you've got large easements and that's what they're using as their um as their open space.

Thank you. Any other comments, questions from council before we continue? Yes, sir. I'm just going to point out that what u attorney Smith was referring to regarding the downzoning, that was one of a handful of land use related changes the general assembly made that the League of Municipalities was not in favor of because municipalities feel like we should be able to make our own decisions and not be made for us in that regard. So that that is correct and it was unfortunate in my opinion as well that that that passed. not the only bad law that's been passed. [laughter] Anything further? What? Thank you. [clears throat]

All right. Is there anyone else to come forward and speak on 5.5? Uh there we go.

Good to see you again. Chris Cox 104's Place. [clears throat] Could I get the map? Um u I'm very familiar with this piece of land. Uh, I was involved in the resoning the first time. So, could I get that map of the the where it shows the MX1 on the I tell you what, let's pause this clock, get the appropriate uh [clears throat] visual aid on the screen, and then we'll start. [clears throat] There it is. All right. Thank you. He's he's going to need to either get a mic or move. Yeah. Stay stay close to the mic though so we can record for the record

to [clears throat] give some context. Um this land was about 50 acres in size and it was sold to Stevenson. They were going to put Stevenson Honda there at one time. And when we went through the resoning we it was I mean it was nauseatingly talked about what should be how it should be zoned to get that to be allowed there. And if you'll see the actual MX1 only goes to part of this property right here, right? So if you'll go to the next map where it's zoned HB1, you'll see that that line just touches the the existing zoning map. One more right there. You see how that line right there? Well, that that circle touches that line right there at one point. And that's how that line was put in there because the MX1 doesn't include this property, right? So, it's not encompassed in that in that area that was even talked about. And that created a natural 300 feet buffer of R16 and that was the Stevensons talked to the adjoining land owners about it and and negotiated that when they had it done the first time. So that's not just done just I want a line here. I mean there was a lot thought that gone into it from the previous boards, right? So now they're coming back and wanting to down zone um with HP, but again there's a 200 foot wide um power line easement going through there. You've got some low areas. I mean they're just they're going to be there anyway whether it's R six or R16. So to put to put R six a lot of people

don't even know what R six and R16 means, right? And practical sense. A R six lot is 50 ft wide. It's not even as wide as a room and it's 120 ft deep. R16 is double that. It's 100 ft wide and 160 ft deep. Huge difference, right? And that means a lot when you're doing a development. You like somebody earlier said it's probably half the density. And I'm sure these land owners, they don't they want to see it develop. They just don't they wanted to see it develop more in line to what's how it was originally planned to begin with. to to to create that natural buffer or a buffer between a basically rural area. I mean, there's like uh Mr. Henry said, there's no R9 within a mile of this site. So again, as you can tell, I'm not in favor of I'm in favor of development totally, but I'm in favor of development that meets what's been looked at by other previous to this board, you know, and and why it was done that way. And if there's any questions, I could probably answer them because I've been I've had this this area for a long time.

Thank you. Any questions? [snorts] Questions, council. All right. Thank you. All [snorts]

right. Is there anyone further to come forward and speak on CZ 425 Tucker Trace?

Good evening.

Um I'm Vance Edwards. I'm a contiguous land owner there. I've been out there about 20 years and uh you know I'm beatly against this. Um my friend and partner Paul Wilman can't be here tonight but he would say the same. Um we uh as everyone said we're in in favor of a development there. We that's been a farmland for a long time and we've known something might go there. Um when they came through before with the uh R16 uh we did discuss that the developer came to us. We had a lot of discussions. It was a nice back and forth. Um he respected where we were with um and why we went out there to have some privacy and to be uh still close to town. And uh we came up with this very acceptable large buffer and they had all the trees they were going to plant and it was really a nice plan. And we felt pretty good about that. I think from our standpoint, it's not just about land value. Um I I think this would be extremely detrimental to us, but we would like to have a nice neighborhood go in there. I think the R16 would be more like 40 or 50 homes. There's power lines everywhere. There's gas lines. There's that big cell tower. And all they've done is looked at exactly where they can build away from those areas and crammed as many homes as they can in there. And um I just would love to see something go there that complements the area. I can tell you, you know, just going down Dean's Lane and then which is a private road that we actually me and my partner paved ourselves for the benefit of us and our neighbors. And um when you go on Tommy Road where they're going to have two openings on and now you go to the end and you you know you come to the um the 117,

it can take me it is kind of dangerous. Like there's two lanes there and there's a median there that's right there right before you get to the um gas station across the street. There's two lanes. There's a median which is right there which is you almost have to go around. It's not easy. And two more lanes. And for me to get out with no light at a stop sign, I can sit there for a minute or two with all the traffic coming off the highway. I can't imagine 240 homes or two 120 homes, 240 cars with back and forth all day. You could have two 3,000 goings and coming. I can tell you trying to get I don't know if you can put a light there because there's a light right next to it before you go on the highway. Um it's a congested area. you may have more business going on the other side of that kangaroo or whatever it is. Um it's going to be tough. I mean I I could just see trying it's d kind of a little dangerous pulling out now. Um so I know sometimes the traffic concerns are not as huge as others, but I I can tell you driving that every day it's it's made a big change just where it is now. But um yeah, I mean we'd love to see something go there. that'd be good for the uh city, but this is really horrible for us and I hope you guys can take that in consideration when you think about this.

Is there anyone else to come forward and speak on CZ425 Tucker Trace? Yeah, I can come back. Uh we only we only have one permitted speaking session per uh per session as you've already Wait, you spoke when you were just doing the briefing, correct? All right. Yes, sir. If if you'd like to if you'd like to.

Yeah, thank you. Um uh yes, I could take some time to talk about some of the things that have been presented. Um you know, the the the idea of zoning and losing control and all of that. You know, this is a conditional zoning. You know, it's not a just zoning. So then you get whatever you get. It's a conditional zoning, but um other things like that I could could address, but I have spoken with the developer and um uh it it has been requested um from some of the people that have spoke for uh you know to delay this, not act on it now. And um from the developer side, uh would ask that you do that. Um give us a time. We would not like to just delay and then come back and have these same conversations again. Um we would ask to postpone it, give an opportunity um for us and the developer and the property owners to schedule a time to meet and talk through some things and see what can be worked out. So um we we are asking as well as they've already requested by letter to uh postpone this. Okay.

Thank you. So council, now is there anyone else to come forward and speak on CZ425 Tucker Trace? Okay, council, we have a couple of options in front of us. Of course, now both parties have requested that this be continued to another date. So my question to council is, as of right now, the public hearing is still open. Would you like to continue the public hearing in its open state to a date certain, which I presume would be the first meeting in December? Correct. It's it's whatever you choose, mayor.

Okay. Um unfortunately that is the Monday right after Thanksgiving holiday but that would be the next time that we are taking on um primarily zoning based matters. So u I want to ask ask you if that's okay the first meeting in December with if it were if it were council's pleasure to uh remain open until the first meeting in December would that give you an opportunity? Yeah, I think from our standpoint it would be um you know there are there are a lot of individuals to coordinate and schedules. It would either be that or the first meeting in January in [clears throat] January.

Um would that date have to be set now or could we notify planning staff within a couple of weeks when we've had time to maybe coordinate and know if we can coordinate schedules or not? Generally, we table to a date certain. Uh so I would prefer to do a date certain even if we have to continue it again. Um can I ask a question though? Yes.

So I I think it's noble of the developer to be willing to um postpone or I don't want to use the word delay but postpone to give some more time. So would the developer be open to speaking to those individuals because I know they wanted to get their engineer and they wanted to do their due diligence which is unheard of for me. So, I think it's pretty cool and and would love to honor them in doing that. If you guys could get together, if you would ask what would be best for them since you guys are willing to allow them time to do that, right? Is that I mean, if I understand a date has to be said, it just can't be open-ended. So if we can do December and then if if

if we're all able to coordinate and get together and it works for both sides for it to be and if we need to postpone to January then even if you just simply notify staff that you would like to continue again that is something that we have seen done we we the city did it on one of our own annexation uh requests. So with that again that is one hypothetical that council can now decide of either and Thank you. Yeah. So either continue to a date certain it would be the first meeting in the month of December. We can vote to approve, we can vote to deny outright. What is the pleasure of council? I think we [clears throat] should uh give give both both parties a chance to uh come back before us. Okay.

And my recommendation would be in January instead of December. We're already in November and we've got um the holidays. They're going to have to contact engineers. They're going to have to contact um other individuals they want to bring in to speak. I think it would be best if we just postpone it to the first meeting in January to afford them the proper timing for them to all be able to connect. I will simply opine on that that ideally we would keep the first meeting in December a little bit lighter given that it is right on the tail end of a Yes sir.

I was going to make that same suggestion just to to put it to the first of the year. I don't think anybody would be in opposition to that and was going to make one final comment and then if it was okay I was going to make a motion to to that effect. But I I'm encouraged to see that, you know, everyone can try to work together and figure something out because there was a lot of that same work that was done 10 years ago whenever I was planning chair and driving back and forth out there and meeting with the parties and and and come up with what we approved the last time that was fair to all concerned. And I'd certainly like to see that happen again if it's possible because my personal opinion is that we should be looking at commercial first and residential second out there. That's Chris's personal opinion. So that said, if it's okay, I'd like to make a motion.

All right. To continue the public hearing to the first meeting in January. That is correct. I'll second it. All right. Motion's been made and properly seconded twice actually. So take your pick. Uh Mr. Lawrence, am I procedurally am I screwing anything up? No. [snorts] All right. We're leaving the public hearing open continuing [clears throat] to a date certain to be the first meeting in the month of January. All right. Um we will you going to pop up the All right. Motion's been made and properly second. Is there any further discussion on that? It's no discussion on what we just said, but I do have a question for Kenny though. Okay. [clears throat and cough] Before we vote, if you please go forward.

Come on. No. Come on. Come on up. before we before we look. So, so doing this whole this whole thing when with the uh planning process, the DOT come out and assess the traffic or is it one of those things where it has to be a crisis before they they come and manage it? Once there is a need, DOT is going to Great choice of words. Crisis. Yes, sir. I got you. Yeah, [clears throat] he could. Yes, ma'am. Um,

I know there was some talk about a lawsuit against that developer. Is there a way that um someone could get that information together and maybe distribute it to us so we can learn more about that? Yeah. M Mr. Lawrence, if Mr. Lawrence, if you if you would want to opine on relevancy, if that is something that can be pulled out, it's a public document, so otherwise it certainly could be. Is that something that you could assist us with or offer an opinion on? Well, you back up to what type of hearing this is. This is a zoning hearing, right? So, zoning hearing you can consider things that you look into on your own.

Doesn't have to be just evidence presented like a special use permit. This qua judicial since this is legislative. I don't like that microphone. Since it's legislated, then you have the opportunity to look at things on your own, right? Okay. Like you could drive out there on your own, right? Quite judicial, you have to consider only what's presented here. So, as a result of that, certainly you can take a look at that lawsuit. I don't I my opinion and advice would be that it's not relevant to this determination or the issue of the zoning in this particular matter. But again, because you can look at whatever you want to look at, you're free to look at it. I take that to mean that um

would you yeah research on but if you're interested in and asking Mr. Lawrence for uh assistance in pulling a specific case I'm confident that he you know would uh would assist you in that to make sure that you're pulling the right documents. Thank you Ron. Yes ma'am. The first meeting in January is January the 5th.

There you go. January 5th stated for the record. Any other comments, questions at this time? All right. Motion has been made and properly seconded to continue this uh public hearing to the January 5th meeting, first meeting of next year. Any further debate? Hearing none, please cast your vote electronically if possible. [clears throat] missing. I did.

Uh all all in favor, please raise your hand for the All oppose. Same sign. Seeing none, motion passes unanimously. All right. Uh CZ 425, the public hearing will remain open and will be uh reopened at the January 5th meeting. I appreciate everybody's time. This was a uh this was a a very healthy conversation. All right. [snorts] If we could please move to item 5.6. And I would remind the gallery, please, you know, remain uh remain courteous to those that are speaking and engaged in the meeting. And so, if we could please move to item 5.6, Mr. Livingston.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This one has another conditional zoning request for Bordon Mill Apartments, Laura. And we have Mr. Helmer here to give the presentation and brief. All right, pause. Just one second. I just miss Laura. I signed out and back in to see if that'll fix a issue.

Point a point a technical order there. All right, let's give everyone just a second to uh clear the room. That way everyone can make sure that we hear appropriately. All right. Just remind everybody as [clears throat] they're exiting that way to please go ahead and clear out that chamber if you would please. All right, Mr. Helmer, please proceed. All right, we're now on item 5.6 for those following along on the agenda.

So, this is conditional zoning 0625 Bordon Mills Apartments. This project is located in the 800 block of North William Street. Uh the request is uh to reszone 13 uh13 acres of land from the residential R six in the general industrial I2 uh to general business conditional zoning uh for to allow for uh 144 apartments and townhouse units. Uh the owner of the property is uh BAP Partners LLC and they are uh doing business as Bordon Mills Lofts LLC. The uh the engineer for the project is Timonss the Timmons Group. Um again it's uh the current uses are multifamily administrative offices, warehouse facilities and for and a sports facility. Uh the proposed zoning is a uh general business conditional zoning which will allow for future approvals of day cares, grocery stores,armacies, beauty salons, restaurants and other uh supported residential life. However, at this time we do not have a list of uses. [clears throat] Uh so uh you know whatever use if they don't generate those uses then uh they will have to basically come back for reasonzoning for a tenant occupancy type use. So if they one of the buildings on there was to be repurposed for uh uh commercial, they are yeah they would have to come back essentially through the resoning process to have those uses added uh to the conditions of the the zoning. So that is an option they have. So uh the proposed residential density is 14.6 units based on 9.86 acres dedicated to the residential use. Um adjacent zoning con uh includes uh general industrial and general business to the north uh general uh uh industrial and general business to the south as

well as uh residential and general business to the east and then to the west there's general industrial I2 uh residential R six and office and institutional oni. The existing uses again vacant mill complex, a warehouse used for storage, warehouse occupied by the Eastern Volleyball Club and office buildings occupied by Partnership for Children. Um, and again this is actual zoning map. So this and get oriented here. I think the batteries are It's working. It's working.

It's working. Okay. Yeah. So there's Wayne County just uh Wayne County Correctional Facility right here. uh retail strip center right here. There's some general business, some warehousing, some heavy industrial here, [snorts] and then some mill housing uh and smaller lots to the rear with some commercial uh uh general business type commercial establishments on North William Street. Uh the envision 35 comprehensive land use plan is identified uh uh as uh within the highdensity uh land use category. Uh high density residential land use have been provided in areas that have water and sewer services or where the plans to exist or to extend water and sewer. Uh the unified development ordinance uh the proposed reasonzoning is consistent with land uses and density recommendations of the UDO. All stated deviations from the UDO shall be documented uh as conditions of the uh the requested conditional uh zoning district. Uh 2050 uh Goldsboro bicycle pedestrian greenway plan has identified North Williams's complete street with sidewalks on both sides and Royal Avenue has identified as uh as a greenway uh corridor requiring a 10-ft multi-use path. Uh generally speaking, the the plan is consistent with the recommendations of the Goldsboro uh 2050 Goldsboro bike uh pedestrian and greenway plan. Um if you can see here, so the the the dash lines here represent complete [snorts] streets, which is sidewalks on both sides of the street. The project is proposing sidewalks on both sides of North William. They will be dedicating um well they'll be deeeding a a 20 foot easement on the eastern side of the project for greenway uh that's proposed on this plan as well as bu constructing a 10-ft

multi-use path up to the intersection of uh Royal and uh North William Street. Uh they've completed uh submitted some artwork along with their application showing um the building as it will look uh with the new windows and some of the key features of the site. Um they have completed a 70% drawing of the site. Uh this is a rendering of the site with the landscaping. Um, all proposed modifications to the exterior of the building and site will require review by the North Carolina Historic Preservation Office for compliance with Department of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation since these are on the National Registry. Um, so they provided all the building elevations for the project. Uh all excess asphalt will be removed from the public rideway and 8 foot street yard will be installed uh on all streets. Uh new sidewalks on both sides of North William Street and on the north side of Royal Avenue will be installed. New landscaping street yards will be installed. All abandoned unpermitted driveways will be closed with new curb and gutters. This is a looking north. Uh this is looking south. So you see Wayne County just to the left there. Wayne County's u uh has stopped sidewalks here. So that sidewalk will continue on this side. There'll be a sidewalk coming down. All this old landscaping will be removed and replaced uh with a a modern uh landscape design done by a landscape architect. [clears throat] talk about uh that.

So, decorative street lighting would be required on both sides of North William Street and on on the Royal the north side of Royal Avenue. Uh site features include historic water tower which will be uh uh uh rehabilitated, repainted and and and badged with warden signage will also be illuminated. The historic smoke stack will be also rehabilitated. Uh repointed masonry is required per uh NPS standards that is also a historic structure. Uh the pedestrian crossway will be re rehabilitated as well uh and will include uh the traditional uh board mills logo on it as well. So, this particular drawing, I don't know if you've noticed, it actually shows uh enhanced uh guard rails around these supports for for additional safety u in case of a collision with the vehicle, which currently doesn't have. U another site feature includes what I mentioned alluded to earlier, which is the the branding. The board mills logo will be uh displayed prominently on key features of the site to include historic water tower, pedestrian bridge, and ground mounted signs. All this is uh to uh create a a sense of place. Uh site amenities include swimming pool, clubhouse, and active green spaces. Um, all this is in the packet, but I wanted to point out the this area here, which they're actually going to be using a historic structure uh for clubhouse. Uh, and then of course green space with amenities around. Other amenities will include multiports game courts and a dog park with green space. 20 foot easement for a future greenway will be on the east side of the property

and will be uh in the dash lines represents that 20 foot. We're requesting them to to uh deed that easement [clears throat] uh not deed it to the city but include it in their deeds for the property. So for a permanent record uh parking will be provided with construction of 346 paid parking spaces. All parking will be edged with curb and gutter. Parking lot landscaping that exceeds minimum parking standards will be provided and approved in accordance with the proposed landscape plan. ADA uh parking and access ramps will be provided on multip uh multiple locations throughout the site. [clears throat] [snorts]

uh this proposal uh staff has requested a a well I'm I'm going to say the applicant uh is proposing to subdivide the property uh re and basically which amounts to a reconfiguration of the lot. So uh a staff approved uh subdivision plan would need to be uh approved uh prior to uh construction of the project. Uh utilities are available at near the site to include access to water and sewer uh electric storm water by existing infrastructure within the rideway to North William Street and Green Leaf Street. Site lighting uh plan uh for the uh for the interior of the site has not been provided but will be required prior to issuance of administrative site plan approval. Site access will be provided two driveways on North William Street, one driveway on Royal Avenue. Uh the western side of the site will have one driveway on North William Street and one driveway on Greenwood Street. NC DOT pedestrian safety enhancements at the intersection of William Street and Royal Avenue will be required of the project. Planning staff uh is of the opinion uh that this conditional uh resoning request is consistent with the recommendation of the comprehensive land use plan and land use map. Planning staff's opinion is that the city of Goldsboro can provide for public safety and meet transportation and utility demands for the subject property while maintaining sufficient levels of service to the existing developments. Playing staff's opinion is proposed general business conditional zoning district will not impair or injure the health, welfare, and safety of the public. complaining staff's opinion is also that the proposed general business conditional zoning district will address Goldsboro's housing shortage, offering increased housing options, affordability u and affordability while providing economic, social, and environmental benefits that enhance residents and quality of life. Therefore, plane staff recommends approval of the proposed general uh business conditional zoning

district with the following uh conditions of approval. Uh, one that the residential component of the project shall provide market rate and workforce housing only. Exterior modifications to all contributing structures shall be reed and approved by the North Carolina State Office of Historic Preservation in accordance with the Department of Interior standard for rehabilitation. Proposed reconfiguration of all lot lines shall conform to minimum minimum subdivision standards as published in the city of Goldsboro unified development ordinance. All existing building setbacks as shown on this site specific development plan shall be considered conforming to this uh general business conditional zoning district. All required utilities and storm water improvements shall meet the city of Goldsboro's development standards prior to administrative site plan approval. Also, all landscape uh improvements shall be in accordance with the site specific development plan as submitted with this general business conditional zoning district application to include an enhanced screening buffer on the western property line that shall consist of a solid opaque brick wall with supplemental planning requirements as shown in the site specific development plan. I apologize for not pointing that out, but we can go back to that if you're interested in knowing exactly where that that wall will be. uh 20 foot uh easement for future greenway uh uh for future greenway shall be documented and recorded for all affected property deeds prior to staff approval and subdivision plat recordation. Active and path passive open space shall include the outdoor swimming pool, ball courts and dog park as shown on the site specific development plan uh submitted with their application for conditional zoning. 5 foot continuous sidewalks and decorative street lights shall be provided on the north side of Royal Avenue on both sides of North William Street. Uh historic water tower smoke sack shall be uh pedestrian overcross overpass shall be rehabilitated in accordance with sight specific

development plans. Site branding to include historic board and mills shall be consistent throughout the development and be included in the uh required ground mounted development signs, pedestrian overpass and historic water tower. Metal [snorts] cladding building fronting of North William Street used for residential units shall provide outdoor patios enclosed with brick walls, metal gates adjacent to North William Street. Uh, city council is requested to review the petition, conduct a public hearing, and adopt an ordinance approving the reszoning petition with stated conditions of approval. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. I believe the applicant is also present and would like to probably speak with you. All right, Councilwoman, I have a question for Mr. Lawrence.

Okay. Um, so I have um ownership interest in a business that this property um butts up right against. So, um, my question is, do I need to recuse myself from this vote? Um, nope. Okay. I just wanted to be You're not allowed to. Yeah. The duty to vote on that. You got to have very specific. Sorry, Ron. This is your job. No, you're good. I just wanted to be clear and be on the record. I didn't want anybody to think I was being I just wanted to make sure that I was [clears throat] Any other comments for Mr. Helmer at this point? [clears throat] That's always good to get that stuff on the record. I very much agree with what you just did

because in the near future I plan on doing some zoning and special use requests myself. So nice. That's what I'm I just wanted to be sure I didn't come up [clears throat] later and then Understood. Understood. All right. Um if there's nothing further from Mr. Helmer, let's invite the applicant up and uh we'll hear any additions they have to the brief and then we will open up [clears throat] the public hearing. Is the applicant present? [snorts] Good evening.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor and council members. Thank you for the opportunity to uh to be here and present some hopefully some some good information. Uh so I am one of the owners of the property with Lee Bordon whose family ran the board meal uh since the early 1900s. We purchased this property in n 1999 with our goal was to partner with a developer like this to do this type of development. Uh it's taken us a while, but uh we feel really good. I mean, and we've had a lot of opportunities to partner with some other developers. Uh but we wanted to make sure that we partnered with someone that would meet our expectations and do the type of project that we felt like uh goals were deserved and what we wanted. And I'll tell you, I mean, we're very excited about this this project. If you guys have seen or heard about the Rocky Mount Mills, it would be very similar to what they did over in Rocky Mount. Uh, you know, we we thoroughly vetted this this development partner. We looked at some of his projects uh in other cities. We talked with the city of officials and asked him what the outcomes were after the fact, after the project was completed. They all gave him high marks. Uh, and one thing I can think probably got me over more so than anything was one of their uh, a local businessman, David Wheel, who I have most respect for, has actually partnered with this guy before. Uh, and so when I knew that, I really I sat down with Mr. Will and talked to him about it and uh, he he thoroughly uh, or totally endorsed what they do. Uh, they've got a seasoned professional team of people that they work on this project because it is a very large project. And so we feel good about that so far and we've been working on this about a year. Uh which is pretty typical. Uh but we've uh we're pretty much I'll call it saying in the eighth end of this nine inning ball game we hope uh moving forward. And one thing I want to I want to mention is my understanding has been some misinformation or poor communications

about about this project. It is not lowincome section 8 housing. uh it is considered market rate and workforce housing and workforce housing is for middle inome working population that make too much money for subsidized housing but too little for high market rents. I know that has been a concern that I've heard over the years. Uh so that will not be lowincome housing. Uh so anyway, in in in closing, I just like to say that it's I feel like this would be a great asset, you know, not only for for Goldsboro and the city, uh but we're taking an old mill that some might consider blighted, making it a class A property, uh that is basically on William Street, which is a gateway to downtown Goldsboro. And uh so we're really excited about the project and appreciate appreciate your consideration and I'll be happy to try to answer any questions you may have. Council, any uh any questions for applicant?

Mr. Perry, just state your name, please. I'm sorry, David Perry. Excuse me. Thank you, Mr. Lawrence. There you go. Hearing none, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we will officially open the public hearing uh for CZ 625 board mills. It is item 5.6 on our agenda. Uh this is a public [clears throat] hearing for CZ 625 board mills, item 5.6 on our agenda. Is there anyone to come forward and speak?

Welcome back, Chris Cox. 10420's place. Um, wow. That's what I got to say is wow. Finally a piece of history coming to life. with your help tonight for the approval of this reszoning if Mike can get that started. I just hope you do. Thank you. Is there anyone else to come forward and speak on CZ 625 board mills? Uh item 5.6 on our agenda.

All right. Third and final call. Item 5.6 CZ 625 board mills. All right. We'll close the public hearing. Council, are there any uh any conversations, questions? Yes, sir.

Just going to make a comment to to say that um I as well as applicant and and Mr. Cox just said I am extremely excited and happy to see this project um finally materialize. Um, the late Mayor Allen and a lot of folks uh on city staff put a lot of effort many years ago into this very same project style project and just and could not get past an issue with the railroad over a little bit of rightway discrepancy. And we lost that project and I don't remember how many years ago it's been cuz I'm telling my age a little bit. I've been around a while, but it's been a while back and it's taken this long for a project to come to fruition that is of the quality that Mr. Perry spoke of and other people that have spoke towards it. And I can't think of a better looking project from seeing conceptual drawings and knowing who's behind it coming into the gateway of this city um and being able to reuse and re start and regenerate a a a classic piece of property there. I'm extremely excited about it and I just before we even deliberate or go on the record, I just wanted to say that. and and also from a nostalgia standpoint, um the last time I was in that building was in my late teens when I drove a forklift there for a little while. So, I'm I'm looking forward to be able to go back in that building and and walk around it and [snorts] then wow myself a little bit. That's all my comments.

All right. Thank you. [snorts] Any other comments, questions on CZ625 from council? I just just one quick question. Uh, I know there's the Wayne County Child Development or something in in that building as right now. Mhm. But they're going to relocate. I presume so. Um, Mr. Perry, as the applicant, if you don't mind coming back forward, I think you're probably in the best position to be able to answer that. Sure. Yeah, they they purchased that office building and that is their property and they actually have an easement on some of the parking lot. So, they'll remain where they are.

Okay. Thank you. While while you're up there, any other comments or questions for Mr. Perry? Just perfect. Thank you. Appreciate that. And good question, council. Any other comments, questions on CZ 625? All right. Um, who delivered the brief on this one? Mr. Helmer. Um, the conditions recommended by planning staff. Just want to make sure that we are all crystal clear on exactly what those were. They were delivered in brief. Was there anything? No additional comments. No additional comments to be added to this list here. All right, perfect. Is that clear for you? All right, council. Is there a Laura's already put a motion up? Is there a motion to [clears throat]

um based on the conditions recommended by planning staff, is there a motion to approve and adopt the ordinance to approve with the inclusion of the consistency statement? Some move. All right. Motion's been made. And motion's been seconded. Uh having been made and properly seconded, is there any debate? Hearing none, we will call the vote. Please vote electronically if possible. Uh, Councilman Boyette. Yay or nay? Yes.

Yay. All right. Uh, all votes having been tallied. Uh, motion passes on a 60 vote. Uh, CZ 625 is approved. It's an exciting project, guys. It's a very, really, really exciting project. All right. Let's move to item 5.7. Mr. Livingston. All right. Mr. Helmer.

All right. Pause for just a second. We'll let the the room clear and then we'll get right back to it. All right. Perfect. Thank you, sir. So, the uh the project is uh conditional zoning 0725 village 1. The original name uh given by the the developer was senior and veteran uh 60 plus housing. Uh this project located on north side of uh Wilmington Avenue between uh Sycamore and uh is ler drive. Is that how that's pronounced? Isler drive.

Isler. That's okay. [snorts]

Uh there's a very uh early rendered drawing of the buildings. I think the the applicant [clears throat] does have uh uh some uh enhanced drawings since this application was initially submitted. So I'll let him share that with you. Uh this is a uh approximately 1.4 acre tract of land uh owned by Community Technical Assistance Incorporated. Um the applicant is also the same uh as uh Mr. Roland Whitley Jr. Uh the current zoning of the property is R six. The proposed zoning is R six conditional zoning. Uh uh the proposed use is uh multif family dwellings, triplexes, uh uh 1,884 square ft uh each consisting of three one-story apartments. So technically they're it's going to be two triplexes which is attached uh single family dwellings by our UDO. The applicant is requesting to reszone to construct two multifamily triplexes on on two individual lots. So the surrounding zoning basically it's surrounded R six right in the middle of an R six residential zoning neighborhood uh surrounded by single family dwellings um as you can see here uh with Olivia Lane on the north side and Wilmington Avenue to the south. So these are double front lots. So essentially the it has setbacks, you know, rear setbacks and front setbacks. So it's they're a little trickier to build, especially given that it's a a small infill type uh lot. So uh the comprehensive land use plan. Uh the property is identified within a high density land use category. uh medium high density residential land uses have been provided in the area that have watered sewer services and where we plan to extend those services. Uh the UDO uh proposed reszoning is consistent with the land use uh and density

recommendations of the UDO. All stated deviations from the UDO shall be documented as conditions of R six conditional zoning. Any deviations not declared shall meet or exceed the minimum standards of the UDO. So again this is uh high dens this the comprehensive land use plan showing the properties in HDR which is highdensity residential. This is actually the ex the structures that were there before. Um the the applicant decided not to go with that arrangement and decided to uh reorient orient the building so that they're properly addressing the street with the front of the building uh facing the front and the rear facing the other street. Uh each apartment will be accessed off of Wilmington Avenue. uh uh parking is uh being addressed uh uh with the 1.4 spaces per single bedroom unit. Uh the proposed uh proposes one space. So these are actually deviations or specific site specific information. So one space for each apartment for a total of six spaces. U density uh is based on three units uh and are proposed on each lot for a total of six individual apartment units. All utilities will be located underground. Each triplex will have one street tree planted adjacent to all driveways fronting Wilmington Avenue. Each triplex will be surrounded by uh a gated three-foot high black chain link fence to serve as security and open open space for the tents. Uh three residential duplexes of uh uh uh deteriorating and dilapidated conditions was the existing use. Those are now gone. Uh the floor plans uh show a proposed one-bedroom units uh floor plan for each apartment. Each dwelling unit will consist of a front and rear uh covered porch, one bedroom, one bath, living room, uh kitchen, utility, and

laundry room. This is the general site plan here showing uh the orientation of the buildings uh fronting on Wilmington Avenue with uh they're one-bedroom units. there'll be one parking space per per as we discussed um and then one tree per per unit. So um the applicant has included some typical floor plans um in the packet. Um building elevations have been submitted by the applicant. Each dwelling unit will be built in accordance with the North Carolina state building code. Um if the reasonzoning is approved, the applicant will required to make uh make application for preliminary subdivision site plan review. The technical review committee uh will review the plan for compliance with CIA gold fur subdivision regulation standards and conditions of the zoning district. So the conditions of the proposed R six uh conditional zoning district include one permitted uh uh permitted uses would include multif family dwellings, two triplexes, three units uh each uh for a total of six units.

Please please silence please silence your cell phone.

Please continue. Yes. So, proposed uh three units on two individual lots for a total of six units. Uh rear uh proposed reduction to the 25 foot rear uh setback to 11 ft per lot. Uh reduction to the 10,000 square foot minimum down uh to 6,341 per lot. Proposed width increase from 60 ft to 775 77.5 ft. So that's actually increasing a lot with proposed increase from 25 ft to 31 feet would be the front yard setback. So they're doing increased front back setback front setbacks will be uh exceed minimums. Lot width will exceed minimums. Proposed uh minimum lot size will be uh reduced from 10,000 to 6341 and proposed reduction to the rear set tax. The applicant proposes a modern architectural style with front and rear covered wood porches. Facades uh will be designed to ensure simp uh simplicity consistent with modern architecture incorporated slope through exterior hardy plank trim and sighting. Planning staff's opinion is official resoning request is consistent with the recommendations of the comprehensive land use plan and uh land use uh plan map. planning steps opinion of the city of Goldsboro can provide for public safety and meet transportation and utility demands of the subject property while maintaining sufficient levels of service to existing developments. Playing staff's opinion is the proposed R six conditional zoning district will not impair or injure the health, welfare, and safety of the public. planning staff's opinions to propose R six conditional zoning district will address goals for a housing shortage uh offering increased housing options and affordability while provide economic, social, environmental benefits that enhance residents and their quality of life. Therefore, planning staff recommends approve R six zoning district

with agreed upon conditions that we spoke about earlier. uh planning commission did review this at their October 9th, 2025 meeting and unanously voted to recommend approval of CZO 325 with the attached recommended conditions of approval. City council is requested to review the petition for reszoning conduct public hearing and make a decision in accordance with the attached consistency statement uh to approve, deny or table the request to a future date. Uh the applicant is here and would like to give a presentation. Uh and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have as well. All right, counselor. Any comments or questions for Mr. Helmer before we invite the applicant up to add anything that they see fit to the brief.

All right, hearing none. Mr. Helmer, if you'll have a seat and if sir, if you'd be willing to come forward, uh just state your name for the record and then anything you'd like to add.

Hi. Hi, Mayor. Hi, council. I'm Roland Whitley. I'm the executive director for community technical assistance and we got the chance to work on this project. It's one of the um projects that we're looking to do in the city. Um so I designed this project and I'm very excited about it and our vision here is to create or to assist LMI communities um persons to create their own community of choice. And so we chose this type of project to do. Which way do I do? Click left. Right. Uh, right to go. Right to go for this one. What's the other one? This one.

Okay. Thank you. So, you saw the pictures earlier when we acquired this property. We had um there were three buildings on that were here. Um, and they were pretty much in um deteriorated conditions. And so, we were very um challenged uh to parking is not there. Um the people were really good people that lived there, but you know, the conditions just weren't livable. Um we really actually explored maybe just renovating the buildings, but they're all block and so it just didn't work at all. So we looked at it and so what we did is um you saw earlier the floor plan. I just want to orientate you. So it's a triplex. It's three one-bedroom units. It's about 1,800 square feet. 1884 to be exact. We real consistent with making one unit an 88 compliant. So the the unit on the bottom exhibits that. And so you see it has a um a front porch and you see the the turnaround radius and the hall. Go down the hall utility. It's a loaded corridor. So you have a utility laundry and a galley style kitchen. And then you move out to a rear parking lot and then you have a bedroom when you come in on the right and of course a restroom on the bottom that has a um shower in that unit. The other two units are pretty typical. All the units are in terms of the layout work. Just one unit's a little bigger. The 88 is about 632 ft of gross square feet and then the other two around 626. Um we were very consistent in terms of dealing with how we wanted the units to look. Um um so we had a challenge, right? So you have a through lot and on one side is Wington Avenue which is one moving lane which goes um one way moving lane that goes [clears throat] um this would be it's

going this way I guess you could say. Um that's Wington Avenue. We wanted this architecture to kind of be more um consistent with the small residential dwellings on that side. Um so we have dogwood trees here. We're going to have the different color dogwood trees and this is where the parking would be. So, we made this the front. Um, on the opposite side, it have two moving lanes and it's it's a welltraveled street and we wanted that to have prominence. So, we had we had a challenge, right? We didn't want to have a we have two front two front yards technically um but because it fronts on both sides, right? So, we don't have a rear yard, but we wanted to have presence on this street, right? And we wanted to introduce a new type of architecture in the community. And so we have modern it will look just this way. We will have um masonite um hardy boy siding for durability but we really wanted to give a sense of um place and to welcome um something different in the community. Um and so we also thought about how one feels when you're in the space. And so this is a view of a typical living and living room in a kitchen where if you're standing here and you're looking, we really like to take and put the furniture in the space to kind of see how people will kind of interact in that space. And so what you're looking at is the living room. Of course, the furniture, everyone wants to know where your TV is going to be at. And so got a TV. And then you have your um um your kitchen there. And to the left is your would be a rest the bathroom there, but we include um all appliances and stainless steel appliances um similar to this. And then off to the right will be the porch, which will be technically the real porch, but you get the idea. Um so that's what we thought there. And I thought that was pretty much it. But it

was really it's a fun project for us to do. We were really excited about introducing something unique. And again, um, I guess there are questions. Elsa, comments, questions? I I do have a comment. Yes, sir. Um, [clears throat] one, I'm I'm real pleased that we're actually doing this actual project. One is that we're putting the veterans at a focal point because homeless veterans are are really prevalent in our community as well as the state. And for you to step up and try to make some type of avenue of approach for our veterans, I really appreciate that. Thank you, Councilman. Thank you. Great project. Yes, sir.

I'm just going to offer a compliment and a comment as well to piggy back on what council member White said. I mean, in reviewing this prior to meeting, I'm extremely happy that this project is happening because this is absolutely a step in the right direction. And I think I can speak for all of us to what this new council wants to see so far as cleaning up blight and turning things around and being able to reuse and repurpose property within the city because one good thing will lead to another good thing whenever just like what happened with McNair Heights and what happened with this project and things of that nature that that someone is willing to do is going to create a positive environment. something that someone can be proud of, which is going to cause someone else to want to be proud of what they've got, which is going to cause what and and it's just the that we needed the ball to get rolling and people to be able to to step forward and have some confidence in in us as a city and as a group here that we're take cleaning up blight and trying to get crime under control and make an environment in our inner city to where people want to be. And because of that and that residential component is going to bring commercial development and the things that's much needed in our inner city as well. So you know thank you and and to piggyback on what the other council members said. This is absolutely a good thing. Thank you

council. Any other comments, questions? All right. Feel free to have a seat. We still have to do the actual public hearing. [snorts] All right. So, we will open the public hearing for CZ725 item 5.7 on our agenda. Is there anyone wishing to come forward and speak? All right. Second call. Is there anyone wishing to come forward and speak for CZ 725 item 5.7 on our agenda? Third and final call. Is there anyone wishing to come forward and speak for CZ 725? Seeing none, we will close the public hearing. Council, are there any additional questions that have come to mind uh over the last few seconds? No questions. I do have a comment. Yes, sir.

This is this is a great project and I really like that you actually took the time to to to go to the LMI community that's often a forgotten community in our in our city.

I really appreciate that. You know what I'm saying? That's often a voice that's that's not heard. So, I really appreciate that. Thank you. Love it. Love it. Love it. This is a This is a uh this is a spot that that's begging out for begging out for someone with some vision. I don't have anything to add. You don't have to come back up. I was just going just adding this is a spot that's begging out for for folks with vision and folks with uh with desire. All right, council. Um see, Mr. Helmer, I know y'all were deliberating on something. I just want to make sure that I called it if it was anything that was that needed to be included in this.

Everything is everything is good there. All right. On the uh the CZ part, it's already R six to go to R six CZ. The purpose for CZ was what? uh reduction of some of the standards to include uh rear setbacks uh reduced parking uh uh to allow for these smaller lots to be uh redeveloped utilized. Council, everyone clear on what that means?

All right, perfect. Uh so with that, uh Mr. Fe feel free to have a seat. All of the conditions recommended by planning staff were included in the brief. Just give me a head nod. I want to make sure that I'm stating that accurately. Right, Michelle? All were actually stated in the brief. So, based on the conditions recommended by planning staff as presented in the brief, is there a motion to approve and adopt the ordinance to approve with the inclusion of the consistency statement? So, move. All right. Motion made. Is there a second? Second.

Motion made and properly seconded uh to approve. Is there any debate? Hearing none, please vote electronically if possible. All right. All voting in favor. Motion passes unanimously on a 60 vote. I appreciate everyone's time and attention on this one. All right. Thank you. [snorts] All right. So, now let's go ahead and uh do our public comment period and then after that we're going to take another quick recess.

[clears throat] All right, madam clerk, if you would please. Our first speaker is Phyllis Merritt James. All right.

Good evening, Mayor and all the members. Um, thanks for having me. I'm just standing to speak on the subject of community support. In today's climate of uncertainty, I stand not only as concerned citizen, a healthcare provider, and an airman's wife. In our high poverty community are many who have apprehension currently where the next meal is coming from as well as the ability to get the needed supplies for their children, especially our airmen with young families. There have been several communities in this uncertain environment that are looking and thinking outside the box to help their constituents meet their needs. One community had stated that they're going to put a moratorum on any evictions cuz people are working pro bono right now. Um so if anybody's at risk of not being able to pay their rent or anything like that, make sure they're not going to get evicted. Another proposal that had been in one of the communities were not to shut off people's water if they're trying to figure out how to be able to get their meal, how to be able to pay for their school lunches, how to pay for somebody to take care of their kids cuz a lot of daycarees are closing down with with the loss of funding for right now. What can we do as a community um with all the updated um revenue that we have from our new um assessments for our um housing and everything else? Is there anything that we can do as a board, as a city council to help the community and those that are facing real

choices right now and every day? Um, I think there's a deliberate thing that we need to think about and what we can do right now to help. Um, proclamations are fine and [snorts] that's good. Um, and it's very appropriate and timely that this is the month of homelessness and also people that are low income. But what can we do to help our community right now? Um, so if anybody comes and says, "I can't pay for that water bill, please don't shut up their water." Please, if they're about to be able to get kicked out of their home, please have a recourse so that we can have compassion where there is none. Thank you.

Our next speaker is Devin Perry. [snorts]

That's the last speaker listed. All right, council. We still have a uh a robust set of items ahead of us. So we are going to take another uh quick recess and then we will come back and effectively have a whole another meeting. Uh so let's stand in let's stand in recess until 9:00 p.m. just allow folks um time to stretch their legs. We will reconvene at 9:00 p.m. and begin with our cinogen.

being back. It's 9:00 on that one and it's still 8:59 on this one, but that's close enough. Everyone being back in place. Uh appreciate everyone's diligence this evening. It has been a long meeting. We do still have quite a few items in front of us. Uh council [snorts] uh given [clears throat] uh given conversation, is there a motion to amend the agenda and add item and add an item under new business item 9.5 uh to discuss a moratorum on water shut offs for the remaining duration of the federal government shutdown? So move. All right. Motion's been made. Is there a second? Second.

All right. Motion's been made and properly seconded. Uh, Counciloman Weekes and Taylor both said it. So, take there you go. So, to add a what?

To add a discussion of a moratorum for water shut offs for the remainder of the federal government shutdown. That [clears throat] would be item 9.5. Okay. All right. So, now uh that motion is made properly second. Is there any discussion? And we'll get to the details of exactly what that resolution would need to read as uh once we get to that item. For now, it's just simply amending the agenda. Any further discussion? Hearing none, please vote electronically if able. [clears throat]

I take the smashing of the trackpad as as yes. [laughter] All right. There we go. That'll teach it. So, uh, uh, the agenda is modified. All right. We will now continue with our meeting section 7 consent agenda. Mr. Lennox. Uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have a number of consent agenda items there before you tonight. Uh, all of routine nature. Um, I'll just entertain any questions, comments, or concerns with any of those, and we'll take one by one if need be. Council, any remaining questions for any of the items on the consent agenda? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented. So moved. All right. Motion's been made. Is there a second?

Second. [clears throat] Motion's been made and properly seconded to approve the consent agenda as presented. Uh please uh is there any debate on that? Hearing none. Uh please vote electronically as able and that will satisfy requirements for a roll call vote. All right, motion passes 660. That is the unanimous vote. All right, consent agenda is approved. We'll move to old business. Uh, Abbott Crossing Apartments. Uh, Mr. Lewon 8.1.

Uh, yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. This is um another contract for um Mark Morgan's group, the second phase of Abbott's Crossing um for affordable housing development. And um I don't know if the community development folks are here to kind of go into more detail. He's in the edge room. Okay, just a moment. [laughter] Welcome.

Applying for home funds. They originally applied under um Wallik Asset Management. Uh no, first they Yeah, they applied for W under Wallik Asset Management. Um then they applied again under Abbott Crossing. So the the money was awarded to Wallak, but they want to operate as Abbott Crossing Apartments. So it's just a name change, just a correction. Yeah, that's that's right. I got it confused with something else. No, this is perfect. This is the one that you were telling me was a technical correction that you really wish could have been on consent, but wanted to make [clears throat] sure that council got to see it. That's that one.

Okay. Um, council, any questions on item 8.1? Yes, council. Council bottle. Is that the one that we just did? The graves. Yes. Okay. Elsa. Yep. That's it. Councilman what? ju just the affordable housing piece of it. Is is this going to be like a subsidy or is this workforce housing? This is workforce housing. Okay. Cuz cuz you know affordable housing has a plethora of of meanings. So I just wanted to make sure um workforce housing is still in my books considered affordable housing with the 80%.

Yep. 80% LMI. Yes. And if I'm not mistaken is both LMI and workforce because it goes up to 80% AMI. and workforce is 80% to 120% AMI the vin diagram council any other comments questions again with this one the project's already been approved groundbreaking this is a technical correction because they're changing the name right all right is there a motion to approve the resolution um as amended so move all right motion been made is there a second second

motion's been made and dual second it again um to approve the resolution as presented. Is there any debate? Hearing none, please vote electronically. All right, motion passes unanimously on a 60 vote. All right, we'll move to item 8.2. Item 8.2 is not for a vote. This is an update and then a opportunity for council to ask questions about our status and schedule and ways that we can um [clears throat] if we have to make any decisions be prepared at a future meeting to be able to do that. Good to see you.

Good evening, mayor, council. How are y'all? Our c crowd has dwindled. I'm here to give you a leaf and limb update because the phone has been ringing for a few months. Uh, you get a call, you call the mayor, the mayor calls Matt, Matt calls me. I have nobody to call. So, [laughter] I had to figure out exactly what the problem was because I've lived in the city for 15 years and Leaf and Limb was always as as consistent as trash pickup. So, we have a have a few slides, a short agenda. We're going to talk about these complaints. We're going to quickly look at our ordinances that we have on the books now that we are not following. I will give you an example of how much we pick up so folks know that we're out there working every day. I got some pictures which are humorous. Uh I'm going to show people how to separate their yard waste and then we're going to talk about the way forward. I get the call and y'all get calls too. I get more calls than you. Uh but luckily my administrative staff fields in and does what they can. We're not on schedule. Didn't get on my pile. It's been weeks. It's been a month. I'm the director. My pile was five weeks. Public works is lazy. Stupid. Don't care. All that's wrong. But these are legitimate questions. Why can we not stay on schedule? What is What are we supposed to do? This little summary of our uh ordinance is 3 in in diameter and 4 ft long. That's how big it has to be. If it's bigger than that, it's not compliant. We shouldn't pick it up, but we do. It's generally the same day as recycle, but it's I've been here 2 years. I don't

remember us being on that exact day for a long time. But based on volume, it could change without notice. But we might can start giving notice. But here's the kicker. [clears throat] Any contractor created debris, excluding grass clippings, we shouldn't pick up. Any contractor created debris, we should not pick up, but we're doing it and have been for years. And another good thing we do, our bulk pickup on Wednesdays. You may not realize it, but we schedule between 40 and 60 pickups every Wednesday. We're really out there. So, at no charge to our residents. So, these are the basic ordinances we need to focus on. Now, this slide, this is the same numbers you get every month in your council report. And it looks like a tiny amount 0.5.08.8. Well, that's times a thousand in tons. So, the green is the last seven months showing we have picked up more tons in the last seven months than the seven months of the previous year. Seven months in a row. You see 8 or 7 on your monthly report. That's 1.4 million pounds of yard waste. Now, right now, the the compost facility is not taking any private waste. We're taking it all. We're still overflowing what they can process with no contractor help. So, we're out there picking it up. And we did have some serious equipment issues in July and August. I mean, we could not get the parts. It's not the kind of stuff you go to Advanced Auto and pick up.

Even with that, we still picked up more than last year every month. All these large piles are at commercial property and we've picked up I think four of these five piles in the last week. We should not even look at them. But after years and years and years of picking it up, everybody assumes we're going to keep picking it up. We're going to stop. Oversized pieces. 3 inch diameter, four feet long. The top center picture with the stumps, those are on Sloum Street. And there's a little tiny bit of brush on top that probably meets the criteria. But I can tell you, we'll never pick those up because the compost facility can't grind that. This is we would if they could even grind it. And the the joke today is the bait and switch the bottom piles on the right. [clears throat] It looks like normal size stuff, but underneath that pile is six logs, 8 in diameter, 10 ft long. So, but again, and that's on a commercial lot, too. And this is for you guys and all the citizens, too. We have three pieces of equipment that collect yard waste. We have the grapple, which picks up the large pieces. You know, the stuff too big for your wheelbarrow. The rear loader comes after that and picks up the pitchfork size piles. And then we had the vacuum trucks. Now remember, we're not vacuuming up dust bunnies out here. Not just leaves and pine straw, but sticks and pine cones and toys and trash and plastic and a lot of stuff. So that's why our equipment just takes a beating. This is a very rough job. Uh just like our refuge, we we dumped almost a million containers last year. I

mean, think about how many times that one arm, it's like 900 times a day. So, we're out there doing the work. Here's the way forward. Residents are on the honor system. If you hire somebody to do your yard work, they need to haul your stuff off. Except for the infamous grass clippings. We still get the grass clippings, but if they vacuum up your leaves or your pine straw, they need to take it with them. We're going to stop picking up commercial properties, apartments, commercial lots, town houses. Besides being commercial property, I know that the residents aren't out there raking it up on Saturdays. So, they're back to commercial generated. Of course, we're not going to go cold turkey on you. We're going to continue to pick up all we can for the next couple of weeks, but after Thanksgiving, we're going to really be out there passing out the tags if it's non-compliant. And I think if we can have a couple of months of just picking up what we're supposed to, then we can entertain the thoughts of maybe picking up some commercial on a fee basis. because we still have to take it to our uh compost facility and it does save the owner, the resident a uh tipping fee in the landfill. [clears throat] So the contractors hear this, too. You know, you see a lot of there's a lot of guys that can do your yard work now. There's over a hundred in Wayne County. 20 years ago there wasn't that many and it was expensive and you know you did your own yard work or you had your kids do it. Of course my kids won't do yard work same

but but I do my own and one day I'll be too old and it's it's going to be terrible because I'm going have to pay somebody to haul it off. But until then I'm going to keep dragging it to the street. But all these things work together. Uh the more we can haul up the more we pick up it keeps it out of our storm drain system. And so we're continue to battle. I mean, we're still picking up our 1.5 million tons a month and we'll continue to do that, but if we do that and not pick up commercial and commercial generated, then they can take care of the customers are supposed to take care of the do-it-yourself or homeowner cuz that's who needs us to pick their stuff up. That's who can depend on every two weeks they're going to vacuum up their leaves. every two weeks we're going to get their trees limbs and their crate burle trimmings. That's what we want to do. And I think if we could do that for a few months, we'd probably see our total go down and [snorts] then we can look at what our capacity is to uh add additional services, adjust the ordinances to what we can do and charge some kind of fee. That's all I have for now. Any questions? Uh,

council, I I I do. I have a couple. So, just to make for point of clarification. Yes, sir. Somebody comes to my yard and they clip my trees, but it's in compliance and they put it on the street. It's not in compliance. So, if they clip them, I drag them. Yeah. You sure? It's your stuff. 5 50.0. 106 any contractor created the bully excluding grass liftings we don't pick up. So So I I will say that [clears throat] that we've been doing

that that and I understand that but but my my problem with that is if it is in compliance of the diameter and the length and it's on the street the way it's supposed to be, I don't see the issue. You know what I'm saying? if it's in compliance with the size and diameter. I think that and we've been picking it up for for 20 years and and and

now I do understand about the commercial property. I understand that. But as a homeowner, if I pay somebody to come cut my grass and do my yard work, and the clippings are in in compliance, not that it's bigger than it's supposed to be, but it's in compliance and we put it on the road properly. Clear. You're

hold Let him finish. Let them finish. I don't understand that piece of it cuz I don't understand the difference between me going out there and cutting it and dragging it to the street and I pay somebody to do it and drag it to the street and it's in compliance cuz at the end of the day it's still in compliance. I think the difference here is is there's so many people now having somebody come and do it for them. It's a volume issue. It's not that you're that he comes and trims your bushes and they're not they're the right size. It's the volume. Because 20 years ago, we didn't have a 100 landscapers out there trimming every week. The big pile that had the long limb in it in the first pictures. We picked that up last Thursday. On Friday, there was another pile of shrubbery there. Same contractor, same apartment. There's no way for us to keep up like that. I see your point. 20. Yeah, you're paying. And if your guy comes and mows your grass and puts your grass clippings on the curb, I'm gonna get those because grass clippings are called out specifically. And this ordinance has been through like five revisions over the last 20 years. And each time it looks like it's just getting more and more restrictive of what we pick up.

Yeah. Well, I guess my my my problem is [clears throat] now we're going to say that they're not going to pick up the homeowner, but we're going to charge them the same amount. So, I have a problem with that. Well, remember your $26 is for refuge, recycling, and and solid waste. It's not just for tree limbs. I understand that, but it's all consolidated.

I get it. So, so, so either way, that's a service that we said that we would provide that now that we're saying that we're not because that same guy who trims the trees and cuts the grass is in compliance with everything except that he that we consider him a contractor. Yeah, I think this is something that we're going to have to have some some more conversation around because Councilman White's comments certainly res resonate with me as well. And I [clears throat] I I think that we're going to have to figure out what a balance is and and Mr. Mr. Stanley, I assure you I am I'm on your side of trying to figure out what additional equipment and what the balance of services is cuz the city of Goldsboro, frankly,

we offer more general services, more frequency of pickup, at least on paper, than most of our most of our competitors. All cities larger than us are going away from this kind of service at all. And I don't want to go away from it. No, we like it and we still want to provide it.

But I think we've got to take a look at, you know, this was a good primer. This is a good point. Obviously, your job is to work in the work under the ordinance ordinances as they currently are. Period. It is our job to ensure the ordinances are what we believe that they should be and then fund appropriately to ensure that you're able to do your job based on whatever those ordinances are. So, I think that we're I think this conversation right here so that we don't go completely um [clears throat] without having some comparisons I think that we need to go ahead and agree that we're going to have this on our next agenda item as an actual uh new business item, those specific ordinances, because we need to have a discussion as count uh as council because you already said this is what the ordinances are. So, you've got to work within those ordinances, period. We as a council either need to reaffirm that this is where we're going to go and then figure out how we're going to pay for it or we've got to have a conversation about walking back what is put on paper. That's my humble opinion on our path board. I saw your hand up and then council lease and then council. There we go.

I just wanted to clarify. [clears throat] Are you so I can understand are you referring to lawn grass clippings or shrub clippings? Shrub clipping. Okay, cuz I was going to say I hope my long guy isn't watching this because my lawn guy will leave the grass clippings so I can make sure I'm right. Leaves the grass clippings, but anything other than grass clippings I make him haul off. That's exactly how the ordinance is reading. That's how the ordinance is ridding. Uh so what you would like to discuss any debris expanding that

excluding grassland? Well, my my my question is is what's the difference between having my my my guy cut my my limbs which are in ordinance and me dragging them to the street and he dragging them to the street. What's the difference? Well, there there is no difference for our ordinance says that we won't pick up contractor ones except for grass. Right. So, so what you're saying is I can get him to cut them but I drag him to the street. But I'm just saying it's no I guess technically no cuz he cut this service for do-it-yourself homeowners. This is what this service is about.

Well, I I don't I Well, you're right that this is how the ordinance is is written, right? And I do understand that he has to enforce it because that's what it is. However, I think that we should send it out in the water bill and not just abruptly stop it. I've already talked to Latoy about sending out this ordinance information and not abruptly stopping because I can still see our our capacity and staying on schedule of picking up those reasonable limbs your guy cuts just like we've done for 10 years. I can see us still doing that. What I what I have to draw the line here is we've got to get away from these big commercial loads that three truck loads on one piece of property

and ease into what what is real. I mean we see we can see the numbers you guys every month you get this report you can see that this is this is from the last four years we're average about [snorts]

006,000 so [clears throat] 600 tons so somewhere between 1.2 2 and 1.5 million pounds a month. That's what we can pick up. I mean, it's we can't pick up 2 million pounds. And if you pick up a million pounds, we're kind of slack. And I I agree with that. But the one thing I hear and and that I when I go around and they they say that they haven't picked up my stuff, the one thing they say to me on a constant is I don't care if they do it once a month, just be consistent with what they do. That's all they say because they put it out on their grass and it sits there and it kills the grass. Yes. Because we can't put it in the roadway because of the run. [clears throat]

So that's all I ask. I do ask that we do clarify it once we do talk about

the actual clippings that are within within regulation. But if we go to once a month, I that's fine with me. But I just ask that we be consistent. Well, see, right now it's it's taking us over a month to go through the whole city. And so, basically, we're looking at I got I got to go back another 10 years of numbers that say we can pick up about 1.5 million pounds a month based on our current equipment if it's all running. And I'm fully staffed. [clears throat] 1 1.5 million pounds a month. That's what I can pick up. And so, right now, it's taking us a whole month to go across [snorts] the city to get that. If we could get rid of what we're not supposed to pick up, we could probably go through the city twice on a schedule and and and be and provide the service we want to provide because nobody wants to grasp on their yard for a month. Every other week works great for do-it-yourselfers and that's who we got to cater to right now. That's what this ordinance is catering to and then we can expand from there. But we we only have so much capacity. That's that's the killer.

All right. Council uh Councilwoman Taylor and then Councilwoman Weekes. I I just want to say that I think this goes back to um the discussion we've been having about going through our ordinances and updating these old ordinances because what was good for 20 years ago is not good now. Roger Council Wixs and then Councilman Voyette back to you. Councilman Wixs, that was exactly what I was going to say because [clears throat] I hear your heart. For instance, you know, we get our grass cut and the um long guy may take a couple limbs that have fallen out of the tree and put them by the road with the clippings,

but if it meets the specification, say for instance, there is a retired veteran that lives beside of me and he's disabled and he can't um drag his own limbs to the street. If it meets those specifications, I I understand what you're saying. We're not going to be out there trying to analyze, but did the homeowner do this pile or did they hire somebody to do it? If it's a reasonable pile, I'm going to tell you, we're going to pick it up. But then I hear you, too, because I have had issues in my district where um the rubbish sat for 6 weeks, but it was definitely a commercial um business that had put everything there and it sat there for 6 weeks.

I don't have landscapers calling me complaining about me not picking up their debris. I have homeowners calling in and I can't get to their debris, their reasonable, legitimate debris because I'm picking up stuff that I shouldn't be and it's not fair and and and I can't ask my guys to go analyze. I'm not I'm not going to ask them to analyze. I'm going to say go to this this is on today's Tuesday a here's where we're going to work. Get everything here. And that's how I want it to be. I want to get to the point where we don't have stuff on the street that we shouldn't pick up. Yes, sir. I agree with you. I let me let's let's let's stay on order because I I will come back to you. I just want to make sure. Counciloman Weeks, is that concluded?

I had a question for you. So, in in in my district, that was an issue that um it was a commercial individual that was putting everything um by the road for a business. Okay. And a homeowner wanted to report it. What is the proper um process for that? Because they really were given code enforcement.

Code and I've been talking to code enforcement. I'm not going to have them out giving out tickets for for debris. Uh we do have some door flyers. We do have a letter and we're going and again I mean contractors are hearing this. What's up go is going to put this out. So the word's going to get out. It's about education and it's figure out how we want to move forward. We have a limited capacity that we can pick up and and I got 20 years of that's what it is. [clears throat] We're picking up all the compost facility can handle. So I think we have a good tonnage. and just make sure we describe it properly so we can make sure everybody gets the service they need.

And then my last question I had wrote down for you, have have we ever thought about maybe subcontracting out some of those services in your department to get you some help if we can't get it all picked up within a month? Have we ever looked at the cost?

Well, I haven't looked at it, but it's it'd be like 10 times more expensive. It' be like hiring people to do hurricane cleanup. Unless the unless FEMA is going to reimburse you, it's it's a non-starter because that little pile I'll pick up in one scoop with the grapple. A contractor is going to cost charge you 100 bucks to get that pile. That's what his minimum fee is going to be just to show up. And we have a lot of landscapers that haul their stuff off. This is not dinging every landscaper. I'm just saying that just from the volume of the number of people out there doing yard work and you see them every day. They got a trailer and a lawnmower on it. They got no trailer to carry debris. They've got no dump truck. They've got no capacity like the bigger landscape companies in town. So, we got to take all that in consideration. But what I'm trying to do here is to let folks understand that we're working as hard as we can. And I don't like not being on schedule, but I like what the ordinance says. The ordinance says I can make the schedule whatever I want [snorts] based on the volume. U right now we're we're looking good on vacuum systems. We've got two guys hired part-time to start the leaf season. So we're on top of that and I'd like to stay on top of it and and get this debris off the street cuz I don't like riding around and seeing it.

Councilman Wyatt then back to Councilman White. Just a suggestion so we can move on. So, what does the council think about this to to let let him proceed on through the rest of this season going by the ordinance so he can get his arms around everything, figure out the tonnage and all of that when he's doing it by the ordinance and then at retreat time present and we talk about as a council making changes to our ordinance since we as the elected body or who's writing the ordinance to begin with. I mean, that would that that sounds like a would work for me.

It's a good time to try that because [clears throat] if we we'll keep pushing on like we are now because there's so much out there and folks can understand why we're struggling to catch up with the smaller piles that they've done themselves. But I'd say by end of after Thanksgiving, end of this month, we'll be in a pretty much a lot of leaves only. There won't be near as much debris trimming. the pruning season's kind of over and so by the time it's retreat time, we could have a good handle on here's what I think the tonnage is for legitimate ordinance meeting debris now and so we have this much space to expand and then do something reasonable. Okay.

That way we got accurate numbers to make a decision. Council [clears throat] what? I I'm not opposed to that. Only only thing I ask is that we send some kind of notification out to the homeowners so they don't have that stuff sitting out there on their lawns thinking that that that we'll pick it up. Yeah, we got it. Right. And then my my last question is when you say commercial, are we talking about apartment complexes and things of that nature? Yes. And you're going to stop that? We we're going to send a notification to them, too, right? Yes. We're going to read Yes. Everybody's order bill is going to have something in it and the newsletter that's coming out this quarter. All right. And so what you're saying that that's what you're saying commercial is the the the

commercial is commercial property an apartment town houses cuz I know they're getting commercial landscapers doing the work. I mean basically our ordinance are set up for us to do private homes. Okay. That's how we're residential done by the homeowner. That's that's what we're geared up for. But we can do more than just that. I mean there's no doubt. Um, but we're going to dial it back as as what you just said to what we're supposed to do, right? To get good numbers, right? I'm going to dial it back to where I can get around the city in two weeks.

My my request, what I'd like to do is get this back on on an agenda with the ordinances in front of us. So, I realize it's kind of up there right now, but with the ordinances [clears throat] in front of us, and let us as a council reaffirm that this is how we're going to go or if there's minor tweaks, like as long as it fits the 3-in 4ft thing, even if you have, you know, the guy next door that you're paying to do it, he can put it out there as long as it's in a residential, you know, residential thing. If we want to do any of that, if not, [clears throat] yeah,

and re we choose to reaffirm the ordinance as it is. I just want to make sure that we as a council are aware of what it is because when the calls start coming in and when the hate mail starts flowing, I want us to be able to say, "Yes, we stand by this decision and not constantly be blaming someone else and calling and saying, "I've never heard of that." But we've got to be able to say, "Here's what we believe is a workable policy." And then we've got to agree we're going to fund whatever that policy is

and allow staff to do their job. One of the problems we have with our current ordinance, I'll just leave it this is a truckload. Our trucks are huge. So really, it's not that part of it isn't really geared towards the single family or residential person like it should be. So we've basically gone out there and like, oh, there's somebody that's got they've done a ton of work and we know it's it could have been them, but if they're going to do that, they need to structure it a little bit more so that, you know, we don't have their whole yard and it takes more than a truckload. So I think we need to dial that back some. And that'll help us dial back the volume.

And really the a resident that has a giant spring cleaning pile is is fairly rare and we can still get it. It's it's the commercial ones that have a pile every week. That's a truckload. Yeah. I mean, what I'm saying is most of those people aren't they didn't do it themselves. They That's right. And and the guy that's that's mowing his grass, he's not worried about hauling it off cuz we've been picking it up for 10 years. He's going to pile it up in the same place. He piles it up every week because it's it's a never ending pile. It's every week he ms the grass, trims that stuff, and piles it up every week.

Well, here's here's what I'm going to ask. Um, you know, on next meeting's agenda, if you would, if there are any reasonable tweaks that you want to make to the ordinance that you believe is workable and can remain for years, right? If there are any reasonable tweaks, I'd like them to come before council and let's either reaffirm what we have, tweak what we're going to build, and then empower you to go and do your job with our verbal commitment that as we go into retreat and we go into budget planning that now we know what our ordinance and what our expectations are for our city services in this regard. Is that reasonable council? All right. And I and I question. All right. For you.

All right. Yes. Uh yes, ma'am. And then yes, sir. I was just going to say that. Um, so can you hear me now? Can you hear me good? Um, I don't I I understand what Councilman White is saying. And for me, I think no matter who's cutting that grass 20 years ago, we didn't have as many people living um as close together and as you know, we've developed, we've got more people. I don't I just think that um no matter what we're still going to have that same amount of grass. I just think that we need to redevelop our ordinances to fit what's happening now. I

I agree and that's what we'll do and we'll bring it back as the mayor suggested. And and just this conversation here is going to help. I'm going to tell you right now, just this conversation tonight is going to reduce how much contractor dirt hits the debris hits the ground tomorrow. I promise you. Yes, sir. Well, I I agree and I I think we need to look at it. I agree with exactly what she said, but are we getting ahead of [clears throat] oursel to decide what to do before we give him a chance to establish a baseline? That was the only point that I was getting about do we need to let him get his arms around what he's supposed to be doing so he can give us information to use to make a decision?

Well, I think tweaking is what he said. I think we have to take a comprehensive look, but I think there's some things that we can do relatively quickly to help the situation and then more comprehensively look at it after we get the data and we understand what you're doing basically within the parameters of our ordinance somewhat tweaked for the ne next several months when we bring it to the retreat.

Large commercial loads got to go. We can that's in writing. But the, you know, the the yard guy down the street that's just putting stuff in front of, you know, my house that's my trees, my crepe myrtles that are putting them there once a year to the point of this conversation. Maybe that can be permitted in the ordinance without it blowing us up. That's right. So, let's let's take a look at what what this council has verbally said we think the reasonable balance should be. I think the council has been fairly consistent as well, not putting words in anyone's mouth, but yeah, we get it. Like the large commercial piles don't need to Well, I think we're subsidizing someone's business though.

Exactly. We are. We're subsidizing. If if we stop commercial, I mean, not tomorrow, but we wean off of in the next few weeks because I know there's some big piles I would like to pick up that's been there a while. Uh I think we're going to see a change. Uh, I don't think we'll ever have a problem picking up residential debris, even from contractors, if we can eliminate commercial properties and eliminate a residential that has five truckloads on a spring cleaning. We can define that. Uh, again, I'm good for 1.5 million pounds a month. And where it comes from is what we got to define. Good brief. Good brief. Council, anything else for Mr. Stanley at this point? All right, we'll see you next meeting as well and then we'll have something to stand by and that way you're not having to feel all the hate mail yourself.

Yeah. Well, no, we're sharing the hate mail. It's okay. I I'll take my part. That's what it is. You ought to be on new business cuz that's earlier. Fair enough. [laughter] Fair enough. All right. Just so you know, new business is actually after this. We haven't gotten there yet. Um, we still have another item before we get to scratch that [laughter] nugget.

Thank you so much. I appreciate you listening. And I don't I'm not trying to I don't have all the answers yet, but we're going to get them. Um, it's going to be together we can make it happen. And it's it's about communication and sharing information. And I talked to a gentleman last week, nicest guy. Why is my stuff not picked up? I called my contractor. He trimmed his stuff two weeks ago. I said, "Well, you got no idea. Nice, nice guy." And I was like, "You just didn't know." I think as people will know, they're going to probably start holding their contractors to a higher standard, too. [clears throat] Not grass clippings. Take it with you. So, thank you so much.

Tell you my take away from that one. 1.4 million pounds a month. That's nuts. Bad damn. no idea the scale and the scope once you actually get to how much you're hauling. Mr. Livingston 8.3.

Okay. Thank you, Mayor. This is essentially an update on [snorts] where we are uh doing some research. We're still kind of in the midst of that regards to this building security and the city hall security. Um a couple things that we have looked at. Uh we're getting a contractor just to kind of give us a cost estimate on doing some uh structure upfit downstairs to make it a little bit more on the city hall part to make it a more uh hardened per se and safe for people coming in and checking in and things like that. We've talked to some private consultants and contractors. They're coming to meet with us um and getting it may be better to have like a private security firm like Wayne County does. We were in the city of Fateville mayors. You know, that firm, I think they said they charged them just that's not the equipment, but about $87,000 annually to do their um building security. So, they would be there, you know, during operational hours and other hours that we set for them, for example, for city council meetings. Um, so as we continue to research this, we'll give you some more options. I think it's going to have to be a future budget uh issue. And what I kind of need from the city council is once we kind of give you the options is which direction do you want us to prepare and plan for as we move forward. Have any questions from anybody in council?

At what point do you actually foresee having options in front of us for us to then be able to weigh uh with with an eye towards budget? December. Perfect.

One more month. [clears throat] This is just an updated if there was something that stood out of this that was like well I want you to look at this or think about that. I'm just telling you that I'm I'm leaning towards using private security because I don't really want to, you know, use our police force when they need to be doing other things. That's Matt's opinion. It may not be the opinion of the rest of the board, but we have a shortage in our police officers. And if we're taking them off or using them, I would rather use them for traditional law enforcement and get private contractors to provide typical building security. That's just that seems to be what most people are doing.

Thank you for that update. Council comments, questions on that. All right, seeing none, uh let's move to new business. We have three initial bids uh to discuss as well as an offer for an additional lot uh before we move to our our new newest newly added agenda item. So with that, Mr. Living, you just want to go directly to Miss Gwyn? Go ahead and go ahead C. Miss Gwyn, if you come up and walk us through 91, two, and three and four and five for that matter. [laughter]

Okay, good evening, mayor and council. So, um, our first item is an upset bid for 508 Denmark Street to Grasshopper Acquisition LLC. Um, they've offered $2,000. The tax value is $4,000. We have checked and the entity is current and active with North Carolina Secretary of State and staff recommends that council accept the offer in order to start the upset bid process. Council, any comments, questions? Seeing none, uh, is there a motion to adopt the resolution accepting the offer as stated? Some move. Motion's been made. Second.

Motion's been seconded. Is there any debate? Hearing none, please vote electronically. It says I've already cast my vote. All in favor, please raise your hand. It's tired. All oppose. Same sign. Seeing none, motion passes unanimously. Yep. There you go. It's just tired. There you go. All right. Miss working after 94.

So, we have an offer on 709 North Virginia Street from George Hill. Uh the offer is $16,820. The tax value is $33,640. So, it meets the minimum requirements for staff to be able to bring it to council to approve. We uh as staff recommend that council um accept the offer so that we can start the upset bid process. Council, any comments or questions on this one? Hearing none. Is there a motion to adopt the resolution accepting the offer? Some moved. Motion's been made. Is there a second?

Motion made properly seconded. Is there any debate? [clears throat] Hearing none. Uh please vote electronically if possible. All right. Motion passes unanimously on a 60 vote. All right. Uh 9.3, Miss Gwen. Okay. So, we have an offer on 316 Whitfield Drive from Megan Rivera. Um the offer is $4,375. The tax value is $8,750. Again, it meets all the minimum standards in order for staff to bring it forward to council and staff recommends council accept the offer in order to start the upset process. Okay. Council, any comments or questions on this one?

All right, seeing none, is there a motion to adopt the resolution accepting the offer? So moved. Motion made. Is there a second? Second. Motion made improperly second. Is there any debate? Hearing none, please vote electronically. All right. All in favor? Uh [snorts] motion passes on a 60 vote. All right. And 9.4, Miss Gwen.

Okay. So, this one's a little bit different. This is an offer under the the SL204-94 on 503 West Malbury with um Mr. Shipman and New York Telecom LLC. They are adjoining property owners on the right and left of this property. And because it is a substandard lot is verified by our planning department, uh it can be offered for a dollar and we happen to have both um adjoined property owners offered. And so what we have done in the past when we've had a similar situation, they pay their dollar, we bring it to council, have council approve it, and then what'll happen is Mr. Shipman and New York Telecom will be joint owners um is how we'll do the deed to them. So to be the city, and I'm not sure, yeah, this one's city and county. So the city and county will deed it to both these entities and it is up to them to split the lot and do surveying whatever it is they want to do to split it or just own it as um joint tenants. So um staff recommends that we accept uh that council accept the offer so we can move forward with uh completing the sale.

Sounds like the most expensive $1 piece of property I can imagine. Yeah. Um, is there is that is standard? That is how we have done it. Okay. I learned something new because I always thought it was split. Yeah. I was assuming you were going to say you're going to draw a line or you're going to look at the time stamp or you were going to give them the opportunity to bid against each other or something.

Well, the we we could and we have done that. Um the one example that we have is like I said we were trying to come to a um a resolution with both the parties to be fair. So I mean one offer did come in before the other one but New York Telecom uh that's Mr. Yousef asked to also um be a party to this and and receive that lot. So um and this is not me now. Remember I'm not talking to any of these folks. This is Octavius Murphy talking and that mutually they are okay with it. So it's not like we're doing something that they don't want to do. So So they've been advised. They're aware.

They're aware. Very aware of it. Yes. All right. Well, council 9.4, is there a motion to adopt the resolution accepting the offers? Plural. So move. Motion's been made. Is there a second? Second. Motion has been made and properly second. Is there any debate? Hearing none. We'll call the vote. Please vote electronically if poss. Wait, [snorts] did I call for debate? I think I said hearing none. All right. Vote. My motion passes on a 60 vote. All right. Now, we'll move to item 9.5. This was uh add Did we just finish? Uh yeah. Did you want me to or are we good?

9.5. The idea of doing a moratorum on water shut offs. not on water billing, not on um not not splitting hairs about who, just simply a blanket statement through the duration of the federal government's uh shutdown. Given that this one is unorthodox with SNAP benefits being um also turned off, I'll phrase it that way. What are our, as y'all understand it, what are our legal abilities for just a moratorium on water cut offs? As far as I'm aware, I believe that the council could pass a resolution to stop the the water cut offs for a period of time. Um, so it's kind of similar to what um the previous governor did uh during CO. Um so we as staff can't do that, you know, so we could lose our job for doing that. It's not, you know, but council, that's up to you. So I feel like and man, I think feels the same way that we're okay to do that. Um if you wish to have it effective let's say tomorrow for instance I mean if tonight you would vote on it as a group and then let me come back with a resolution uh for a temporary adjustment to customer service policy and we'll backdate it to tomorrow because I mean obviously I can't help what's already happened today. I should be able to um let my staff know so that before she sends people out tomorrow to do cut offs. I mean, I could do it before I leave tonight. If that's your wish, if you want to stop it tonight and vote on it, then we'll just come back and you'll basically approve the action through a resolution back to tomorrow morning. Sorry.

Would it also work to uh have a motion authorizing me to execute a resolution to put a moratorum for the city to put a moratorum on cut offs for the duration of the federal shutdown period? That way I have the author authorization to execute the resolution instead of having to come back and do it again. Is a 68 one doesn't the other? I I think you can do it mayor. I think you can say that you know we're putting in a moratorium on water cut offs or and effective whatever date you're going to say effective tomorrow and we'll come back with uh something but you know I I think you have the authority to do that.

So the cleanest way to do it Ron you agree is we're expressing our desires Catherine's going to effectuate it and then at the next meeting we'll do a resolution that's dated back to make it retro. Is that I mean you can yeah you can do that as far as resolution but you can vote tonight have a motion that there that the moratorum begins tonight at midnight or whatever you want to begin it and you'll just come back and have the resolution approved at the next meeting. Yeah. And again this is going to do in discussing with command. No I just want what are meter readers going to do? I'm sure we've got other things they can do.

Oh they have plenty of work to do. Yes sir. Yes sir. Well, they can still be doing [clears throat] readings because ultimately we are still going to be collecting on these bills that it's not a moratorum on the billing side of it. It's it's on the actual cuto off side of it. Yes ma'am. Go ahead. Um so y'all know I support this kind of carrying on. My fear however is that after the moratorum now folks have these outlandish bills

that are still going to be due at this due date. So if we're going to do a moratorum, I think we need to be a little bit more innovative and say, "So how are we going to accept payment?" Because I'm all good with you giving me some grace, but when that bill comes and it has doubled or tripled and I'm going to be required to pay it at my due date that month, how has that helped me in that moment? So, I'm asking and Miss Catherine, I know it's late, but if we're looking at, and maybe this can be for those individuals who are specifically facing the cut off, because I would hate for people to be in the same position and then if they do get the money to get it cut back on, they still owe all this money. Like I don't

I support it, but we have got to figure out a creative way to to bounce back because we got to bounce back. Well, and and I agree that's one of my concerns because that will happen. That happened after co what we can do is the the problem is is not knowing how long the shutdown's going to last. So let let's pretend 30 more days, okay, goes on. It's possible what I could do with the resolution is offer an extended payment plan because normally you only have I think maybe 60 days or so in a in a payment plan in order to carry through. So what the governor did before is I think it was something like 6 months 12 months something like that.

You couldn't have any late charges or anything like that.

Yeah. No. Yeah. No late charges. So if council wants to postpone those, like I said, we need to do it through resolution because that's how customer policy was adopted was through resolution. So if you want to impose some um no uh penalties, no cut off fees, um and let's say up to a sixmonth payment plan. We don't charge interest anyway. Um as long as they maintain that, then that gives them that spread. So, let's say it's 2 months and then we can spread it over up to 6 months. Then that helps the customer kind of smooth that out until their income stream or possibly they get repaid, you know, where they can pay their account off. And I mean, I mean, most customers did a really good job that as they got caught up, they went ahead and paid their balances off. you know, we have you have certain um customers that you always have the same issues with and they always face those um uh cut offs and charges and stuff like that unfortunately. But I would say the vast majority did get I think we had like five or 6 hundred that were on a payment plan after co uh but most of those got resolved well before the deadline uh set in. So we were we're very fortunate about that. So

good. Can you share with us you said it one time about on a weekly basis how many customers are on our cut off list? Um it usually around 2 to 250 per week. Yeah. Well, you know 15,000 customers. So I mean that's always been very consistent uh with cuto off. So, yes, sir. Council will I see your hand. A point of clarity.

So, [snorts] if and I'm all for this. So, if we do this the way it's legally happening is we're going to vote tonight to to set the wheels in motion. You're going to come back and the next meeting we're going to vote on an ordinance that will amendment or whatever that will be retroactive back to now. Yeah. to fix. So it starts tomorrow. So what happens if this becomes a moot point in the next four days or sometime between now and the next meeting? Do we just not vote on the ordinance?

Well, I think you've got to give us permission not to cut off. Um so there there are occasions where we do not cut off and we don't ask the council to amend a policy. So we have holidays so we don't shut off at Thanksgiving and Christmas because we don't want people to be without service through the holidays and then 4 days later you come back. Okay. So we don't ask for permission for that. But I would say for something like this since we're talking about um this is special circumstance. I do think if it was to last four days, I would still come back with a resolution that said you authorized us to do step one, two, and three from, you know, midnight tonight till the four day, fourth day in

I just wondering how that would unfold. You you say tonight we're going to stop cut offs. Basically, you vote on that. Yeah, we're going to bring back a resolution, but it's basically law, right? We just have to bring back the resolution to sort of But that's more CYA on our part and the city's part, but it's it's law when you say when you vote on it, it's becomes law. So, yes, sir.

Um this is my last um comment. Um I'm asking the council to consider um the shutdown could end tomorrow. It could end next week. I'm asking that we set the moratorum for the remainder of the shutdown and to the end of the year even if it even if the government opens back up. Why? Because people are still going to be trying to recoup. So I I would like to see it extended through the through the holidays and at least to the end of the year. That's my recommendation. And I would just add to that if you all want to consider holding off on penalties and cut off fees um and if you want to offer payment plan we need to know that tonight and you tell us what you want and you know so we're going to have to get with Latoya because we we need to find a way to let our customers know because they can't put it in a mailer, right? That's not going to work. Um so we'll have to figure out a way to let our customers know. Of course, our staff, uh, you know, they will communicate with customers that are on a cut off list and that because you might have customers thinking, I'm on the cut off list. So, we'll have them communicate with them, which they always do. They get the list and they work it. So, if you could um just make those extra designations if that's what you would like for us to bring back in a resolution. [clears throat]

So, we've had a lot of different ideas floated. Um I think it I'm just kind of break it down just for a second. Do we have a consensus on waiver waiver of late fees during the time that we have a moratorium is that do we and just kind of just trying to fill this out. So that piece I think so the duration I think is probably debate. I'll come back to that one. The idea in general I think there's consensus around around doing something. the um and I think we all acknowledge that this can't be we can't put you in a position where you have to prove that you're currently furoughed or something like that. It has to be an across the board thing. Um my s my suggestion is end of shutdown and then you know to Councilwoman Matthew's point there's got to be some window of time there for folks to actually get their benefits back in order. Maybe it's that plus 14 days or something like that. I don't want to have to revisit this multiple council meetings and say yes, extend it again, extend it again, extend it again. Um I don't think through the end of the year um is I think it ought to be tied to the timing of the of the resolution of the shutdown, whatever that happens to be. Again, that's that's my opinion. So what I would what I would go with is a waiver of late fees and a moratorum on on cut offs through 14 days past the end of the government shutdown. Why 14? Because it's two weeks. Um

I'm okay with that because the shutdown could last until March for all we know. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I'm cool with that. Good point. Sounds like a plan. You're okay with that? You okay with it? Do you want that in the form of a motion? I do. Okay. I'll make a motion that we um start the moratorum beginning at 12:00 p.m. midnight tonight and then um again up until 14 days after the shut down. How you stated? Yeah. Resolved and a labor of late fees during that time. Correct. And any any payment plan offering other than what's in I think you should offer a payment plan. So, let me um edit that. And what three months? Yeah. What do you guys think is fair? Three months. What do we do now? Cuz we

Well, what about Cuz now there's Yeah. What do we do now? Gosh, that's you know, and I don't do this every day. I want to say there's got there's like a time frame. It might be 3 months, you know. So, I'm thinking maybe 90 days or so. I really would have to confirm that. And I don't have anybody I can phone a friend right now and ask that question. I just say like 90 days that would give them a three addi three additional um months after the um government shutdown is complete or would you like to amend it to say that whatever the current payment plan offering is plus 3 months. So whatever that is then it would add some time to me. Okay.

All right. So yes motion [laughter] motion as I heard it. Okay. Yeah. Motion as I heard it was to um have a moratorum on water cut offs effective midnight tonight to a waiver of late fees incurred during this moratorum. The moratorium will extend to the end of the federal government shutdown plus 14 days and payment plans for pass amounts will be offered three months longer than the current policy allows. Yes, ma'am. So, is this a payment plan for the amount that they incur? Yeah. During this period.

Okay. So, that motion has been made. Miss gets So, I've got it closed and then I'll go back and fix it for the minute. We do have it on. Yes. Is there a second? Second. Motion made and properly second. Is there any further debate?

Hearing none, we'll call the vote. If I can turn my iPad back on. All right. All in favor? Uh, please vote electronically if possible. All for debate or motion made, seconded. Call for debate. All in favor, please raise your hand. All oppose, same sign. Seeing none, motion passes. All uh motion passes on a 6 unanimous vote. All right, that concludes all items on our modified agenda. Thank you. Have a good evening. Thank you. Good night. Safe travel. Get some rest. Mr. Livingston, city manager report.

Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Uh just a quick quick report here. The ACM update. Um we're down to four uh finalists now. I'll be going through those in the next couple weeks and hope to have someone on board in December sometime. Um following along those lines, implementation of the org study. I've got a tracking sheet that actually Laura's kind of made for me of all the different um things that we've implemented along with the org study. which you'll you'll be able to see what what we've accomplished there and the plan ahead for that. We've also been meeting Kelly and I with the departments and we've asked them they've submitted work plans detailed work plans on a lot of the u budget issues and a lot of the service issues that we're doing and what their initiatives are for the year. I'm compiling that and we'll be doing a citywide work plan to uh that's also kind of the next 30 to 45 days. Website update. We're redoing our website. Um the plan is still to get that done by the end of this calendar year. Unveil a new website in January. Um today we had a groundbreaking for the ceremony for the pocket park, the Choice Neighborhoods pocket park at the GWTA. That's that pocket park is going to be on a fast track. Um the contractor knows their their timeline is to get that done by the end of this calendar year. Um you know I think you all know about the update with the state with the health insurance um and the the treasur's office trying to kind of implement a 2.4% increase. I mentioned that because we're really going to have to look at health insurance this year uh simply because you know they've kind of committed they tipped their hand to us and said well if we can't do the 2.4% 4% we're going to do 4.8% next year. And a lot of our employees have seen increases, especially the you know it and they're just looking at ways to pass on their cost. So I think the time is

going to be uh right for us to kind of look at that and at least do a full dive into comparisons about um you [clears throat] know what our health care plan could be if we did we went to other some other pools. Um, we're having a a event tomorrow at the uh near the Maxwell Center actually to talk about the property that we own. Um, they're bringing in some investors to try to sell that property to get some uh restaurant activity out there in accordance with the plan. Um, what time that is? I I [snorts] think that starts Do you remember? Was it 4:00, Laura? I think it was 5

4 or 5. It goes through the evening cuz that's um I know that they're doing a a reception there at the Maxwell Center. I just want to make sure I can make it's at five. Okay. Yeah. [clears throat] So, it's at five. So, if you can make that, that would be wonderful. But that's all I got, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. All right. We will move to section 11, mayor, council member comments. It is the first meeting of the month. So, we'll begin with councilman from district 2. Councilman Boyette. Floor is yours. No comment, mayor. All right. Thank you. Sorry. [laughter] Y'all are y council. No comment, council woman. No comment, council [snorts] woman. No comment.

Councilman, no [laughter] comment. Yeah, one more thing I got to say, though. I'll be honest. I think we miss. Here's one more thing I want to say. No, no, there's not. Council or sorry, [laughter] Mr. Lawrence, uh, close session. Yes or no? No comment. No. All right. [laughter] All right. I just want to give an update on Fremont. So we we we do need to meet with them and and that's something that we're working towards because we we're still at an impass them not paying their bills since u and you know there's no reason why they can't pay their bill. So that all right that's all that's not on our agenda for discussion this evening. I need a motion to adjurnn. So moved to second

motions have been made and properly seconded to adjurnn. There's no debate on a motion to adjurnn. All in favor please raise your hand. All oppose same sign. See none. Motion passes.