Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I

don't know, Terry. That's I know. It's so bad.

Okay everyone, I'd like to call to order the meeting of 03/12/2026 of the Planning Commission. And if we could have roll, please.

Thank you, chair. Commissioner Carter?

Here.

Commissioner Sisco? Here. Commissioner Horton?

Here.

Commissioner Pardo is absent. Commissioner Sanders?

Here.

Vice Chair Duggan?

Here. Chair Weeks?

Here.

Let the record reflect that all commissioners are present with the exception of Commissioner Pardo.

Thank you. And, we have no remote participation. We have one set of minutes from February. Any changes, corrections, additions? Okay. So, none. So those will be approved as submitted. And now we go to public comments on non agenda matters. This is the time that if you are in the chamber and wish to speak on an item that is not on the agenda, please make your way to the podium. You'll have three minutes to speak.

Seeing no one rise, I will close the public comment and, go on to number five, commission business. We are charged with carrying out the California planning and zoning laws in the city of Santa Rosa. Duties include implementation of plans, ordinances, and policies relating to land use matters, assisting in writing and implementing the general plan and area plans, holding public hearings and acting on proposed changes to the zoning code, zoning map, general plan, tentative subdivision maps, and undertaking special planning studies as needed. Move on to commissioner reports. Are there any reports by my fellow commissioners?

Okay. Then we move on to 5.3, which is other which we have none and then we move on to item six which is department report.

Ms. Jones. Good afternoon Chair Weeks, members of the Commission. I do not have anything for you this afternoon.

Thank you. Item seven, statements of abstention or recusal.

Yes. Thank you Chair. I would like to say for the record that I have a personal relationship with a member of the applicant's representation team. And in order to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest or the perception that my participation could influence the discussion or decision on this item, I will recuse myself from item 11.3.

Thank you. We have no study session, no consent items, no report items. Our first scheduled item on the agenda is 11.1. It was a public hearing for Meadowood Ranch. It has It's being withdrawn by the applicant, so we will not have a public hearing on this item and will go on to 11.2 conditional use permit streamlining. Ms. Jones?

Yes. Thank you chair. Let me get this up and running here. There we go. Okay.

Good afternoon Chair Weeks and members of the Commission. I am Jessica Jones, Deputy Director of Planning. The item before you is a conditional use rent streamlining initiative. This is, the proposal is to amend our zoning code as it relates to the conditional use permit process. The purpose of that is really to focus on our economic development here in the city, trying to make this process more predictable and less costly for our business owners and applicants when they want to both expand and establish new businesses here in the city.

And in addition to supporting our economic development efforts, it's really looking at creating efficiencies both for the applicant as well as for the city staff and our city resources. So I'm going over a little bit of background. Before I get into what's identified here on the slide, just a reminder for the commission, we have been working to try to streamline a number of our processes over the last few years. So you will recall we started with our design review process shortly after the twenty seventeen wildfires. During that time we created a director level design review process which helped to streamline some of the developments that were coming into the city at that time.

Following that, we took a look at our landmark alteration process and worked to create some streamlining through that effort. And then so now we're moving on to our conditional use permit process. So in April 2024, the City Council adopted their five year economic development strategic plan. As part of that, there's a vision for that strategic plan that includes business growth, economic vibrancy and resiliency, as well as community investment. One of the actions within that strategic plan is to review and amend the zoning code where it is needed to align with economic strategies in support of development initiatives and opportunities.

In February 2025, the council adopted their priorities for the fiscal years '25 to '27 and one of the priorities within those goals was to promote citywide economic development. In June 2025, the council adopted the general plan 2050. As part of that includes various goals, policies and actions within it to help promote economic development and to support the economic development strategies within the strategic plan. And we do have some very specific language in there that also talks about ensuring alignment with the general plan, the zoning code and the economic development strategic plan. So following all that, we started focusing on what this might look like.

And so to help with that process in July and August 2025, we met with business owners and commercial real estate brokers in some initial presentations and meetings to try to understand how the process works for them, what works, what doesn't, how we could improve. So we took a lot of information out of those meetings to kind of help focus what we would be doing in order to streamline this process. That then resulted in a draft proposal that was ultimately uploaded to our project website and we sent notices out to all of those who participated in those initial meetings as well as to our Metro Chamber, the Downtown Action Organization, Railroad Square Association, Visit Santa Rosa, and we also sent out notices to all of the holders of business licenses throughout the city which resulted in a little over 10,000 emails just to make everybody aware of this, ask for feedback and review of the proposed changes. So the proposal before you, I'm not going to go into detail in what was presented in your packet but certainly happy to answer any specific questions that you have. But really just want to kind of focus on the three main areas that CUP streamlining process pertains to.

The first is the creation of the director level conditional use permit. So again that kind of falls in line with the director level design review and landmark alteration permits that we recently created. And really it's looking at providing an opportunity for projects or new uses coming in that aren't necessarily appropriate for being allowed by Wright. We need to take a little bit of time looking at them, making sure we've got neighbor compatibility, addressing parking, things like those, things like that, but aren't necessarily uses that would need a higher level of review. So our current conditional use permit process entails two levels which I'm sure you're aware of.

We've got the minor conditional use permit that is projects that are reviewed by our zoning administrator and then major conditional use permit of course comes to the Planning Commission. So this really provides an opportunity for something in the middle to help with that. In order to do the director level, we do have to create an opportunity for notifications so we're not doing this without any input to the community at all. So the way that the proposed language reads is that we would have a notification prior to taking action and that would go out to property owners within 600 feet which is similar to our existing notification requirements. And that notification would go out fourteen days prior to taking action.

It would let folks receiving the notice know what the proposal is, what the proposed potential action would be, and then an opportunity to request a public hearing. So if somebody is interested and has any concerns or wants us to go for whatever reason to a public hearing, they can request that and then it would go to the zoning administrator. So with this creation of the director level conditional use permit process, kind of the second tier of this was taking a look at all of the land use tables within our zoning code and the permitting requirements that are currently identified in there and looking to see where we could find that efficiency in streamlining and reduce the conditional use permit level down from minor use permit down to director, major use permit down to minor, that type of thing. So that's included in your packet. And then the third piece of this was updating our temporary use permit section.

There's some minor tweaks in there but the main piece of that is providing an opportunity for pop up retail and interim activities on vacant sites or in vacant buildings. And this is really looking at ways that we could activate areas that aren't ready for whatever reason to either develop or redevelop, but we want to provide some way to provide just additional economic activity and activate those spaces. So in doing the review of this, we wanted again to ensure consistency with our general plan which I talked about earlier as well as our economic development strategic plan. So everything that is presented before you has been reviewed and found by staff to be consistent. And just also note, in addition to working with the various businesses and organizations within the city on this, We also worked very closely with our economic development division to make sure that this would work with their goals moving forward in promoting the city.

As far as public comment, as I mentioned we did post this. It was posted in January. We did get some feedback from folks. Primarily it was all very much in support. There were some suggested changes which have been incorporated in what is before you.

We did get a late correspondence that came in, think it was yesterday, with some additional suggestions which I'm happy to go over with you which we can incorporate if the Commission wants to do that. But as I mentioned, generally it was support for the project including a letter of support from the North Bay Leadership Council. So with that, it is recommended by the Planning and Economic Development Department that the commission by resolution recommend to the council adoption of the zoning code text amendments and I am happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Are there any questions or comments from my Commissioner Sisco?

Yeah, I just wanted to confirm that for the CUP streamlining where it relates to alcohol requirement reductions that the only thing that's really being reduced are when we're looking at brew pubs restaurants that type of thing. And that the CUP process for off-site sales less than 10,000 square feet is not changing at all.

That is correct.

Okay. And then question, did you consider looking at what the requirements are for when we're considering one of these CUPs for under 10,000 square feet? There's a list of considerations looking at police statistics compared to others. None of which we can ever get. And so I'm wondering if you looked at the discrepancy between what it is what they say we do versus what it is we actually can do and sort of remedying that with language.

Yes, thank you for that question. And that is something that I know came up through this process in particular when I was reviewing this with our internal planning staff. We did take a look at that, we know it's been a struggle over recent years and in years past we were able to get that type as you know of information from the police department. It has not been as easy. The information that they have doesn't, they aren't able to kind of parse out the information that we need for these particular items.

In looking at that section of the code as I dug into it, really, to me it's, there was more work that needed to be done than just a simple crossing out of some requirements and not others. It's something that we need to take a more specific and closer look at. And so because this process is something that we were wanting to move forward to get rolling for our local businesses, we didn't feel that we could do that piece justice in the amount of time that we had. So we have added it to the list of policy work that we will be doing hopefully in the short term.

Okay, thank you.

Vice Chair? Yeah, if

you could speak to the points that were raised in the late coming correspondence from Mr. Evans and what your opinion is on those if that would be an easy thing to incorporate?

Yes, absolutely. So yes, so Mr. Evans was requesting that a few additional items be added to the wholesaling and distribution definition within our zoning code and specifically he was asking that paint, tile, stone tile and stone finishes, major home appliances, furniture and mattresses be added to the bullet point in that definition that talks about stores primarily selling certain areas of that type of kind of more construction and home improvement type bigger ticket items. And so yeah, there's no concern about adding that. As I was looking into this, to me it's, I think the better place for that is the most if not all of those items are actually identified in the land use for furniture, furnishings, appliance equipment store, which is currently not listed in our industrial land use table.

It's listed in our commercial land use table. And so my recommendation would be to add that land use to table two-ten which is the allowed land use and permit requirements for industrial districts and allow it as permitted by Wright in our business park and light industrial districts and then not allowed in the general industrial just to kind of keep our general industrial to that kind of heavier manufacturing type uses.

Thank you.

So I have a question on the appeals that would go to the zoning administrator. No, I'm sorry that if it would move up to the zoning administrator and then it would be appealed and it would come to the commission like it does now?

That is correct.

Okay, thank you. Any other questions?

Just a brief follow-up to Commissioner Sisco's question. Is there any hope of working with ABC so that their criteria sort of lines up with the data we can actually collect?

Yes, so I know we've had, we've got one item coming before you tonight. We've got another one in the works for you. So it's certainly yes, we're gonna do everything we can on our end to provide the commission with as much information as we can from both the police department as well as ABC to get you as close as we can to everything that is identified in the zoning code is being needed for your review.

Okay, thank you. So, with that, I will open the public hearing on this item. If you are in the council and wish to make a comment, please make your way to the podium. You'll have three minutes. Seeing no one rise, I'll close the public hearing on this and bring it back to the commission. Any questions before I ask somebody to read the resolution? Somebody like to enter the resolution? I will. Commissioner Siskor, Vice Chair Duggan.

I'll move the resolution of the Planning Commission of the City of Santa Rosa making findings and determinations and recommending the City Council adoption of zoning code text amendments to address streamlining and processed improvements for the conditional use permit process and waive further reading.

Chair Weeks, before we get a second on that, just question of the commission if you would like to add the furniture furnishings appliance and equipment store use to table two-ten of the zoning code as allowed by Wright in Business Park and Light Industrial and not allowed in General Industrial.

Is there agreement to go with that?

Yeah. Okay.

So are you good with that since you made the resolution? Okay.

Alright, so now we'll need a second.

Okay, thank you.

Second.

And is there a second? Okay, who was the second? Commissioner Cisco. Okay. So we'll go ahead and start with Commissioner Cisco.

I I mean I think this this is an important action by the city to you know to make things easier and more cost effective for the city and for the businesses that work here. And I am perfectly in favor of it and with the additions.

Commissioner Carter.

Yeah I think staff's analysis and recommendation is good on this one and I can support them and I can make the findings necessary to make a recommendation Council.

Thank you. Commissioner Sanders.

Anytime that we can make plan review and permitting process more efficient and less costly the better so I have no problems making the findings and we'll support the resolution.

Thank you. Commissioner Horton.

Thank you. Yes, I can make all the required findings. Just in the spirit of full transparency, my employer Sonoma Clean Power is a member of Northgate Leadership Council, and I sit on the Board representing them. I don't receive any compensation. I did not personally vote on submitting the letter or was not involved with that. And I'm not representing the organization here, but just putting that out there. So yeah, I can make all the findings and very supportive of this. Thank you.

Thank you. Vice chair?

I have nothing to add. I can make all the required findings and I'm in support of adding the information to table two ten.

And I also could make all the required findings. I think anytime we can save time for folks that's a good thing. I think your outreach was really good and I especially like the use of vacant buildings and properties for pop up retail and events. Thank you. I can make all the required findings. With that.

Thank you chair. Commissioner Carter.

Aye

Commissioner Cisco Aye Commissioner Horton

Aye

Commissioner Perdeau is absent Commissioner Sanders

Aye

Vice chair Duggan

Aye Chair Weeks Aye.

Let the record reflect that that passes with six ayes.

Thank you. Thank you for your work. And with that, we'll move on to the next item and we'll say goodbye to Commissioner Sanders. Okay. So, this is item 11.3.

It's public hearing MD market conditional use permit 1478 Grenville Road CUP 24 Dash 027. It is an ex parte item. So we'll start with Commissioner Horton.

Thank you. I have met with the applicant and visited the site.

Thank you. Commissioner Carter.

I also met with the applicant and visited the site.

Vice chair.

I visited the site and met with the applicant.

Commissioner Sisco.

I actually met with the applicant like a couple of years ago before the general plan update and you know there was still the consideration of a general plan amendment. So I haven't met with him recently and I have visited the site.

And I also met with the applicant and spoke to a neighboring business owner and visited the site. So with that, Ms. Tumians.

Thank you. Thank you chair Weeks and members of the Planning Commission. My name is Kristine Toomeans. The item before you is MD market proposed at 1478 Gernville Road. The request is for a major conditional use permit for alcohol sales and off-site consumption. An approval for extended hours from six a. M. To twelve a. M. The request is for an additional hour normal operation operating hours or permitted operating hours are six a.

M. To eleven and they're requesting an additional hour to be open till midnight. The proposed use is a neighborhood grocery market, which is permitted by Wright located in an existing commercial building. It's a former paint store. The most recent tenant was a Kelly Moore.

Site improvements include minor interior tenant improvements, parking lot restriping and circulation changes, lighting and security upgrades, and there are no plans to expand the building. The project is located at 1478 Gernville Road along the Gernville Road commercial corridor. It's within the North Area North Santa Rosa Station area specific plan And it's located near multifamily residential office and commercial uses. To the North, can see several multifamily residential units. To the South, again, an apartment building.

And to the East, we have more multifamily and commercial and professional offices. To the West, is a Super Chavez market. And beyond Super Chavez is the SmartRail. This is the general plan and zoning for the site. You can

see the

purple shows that the property is designated transit village and mixed use. That was changed with the 2050 general plan. Prior to that, the property along with the property across the street from Herbert Lane were designated PI. The zoning is also TBM Transit Village mixed use, which allows for the neighborhood serving retail uses. Alcohol sales and extended hours require a major use permit, which is why we're here today.

And just to give you some project history, on 06/03/2024, the applicant submitted their application. At that time, the property was zoned and designated PI. Notice of application was mailed on 07/05/2024. We held a neighborhood meeting on 09/09/2024. Staff had difficulty moving the project forward given the general plan designation and zoning and the requested uses.

Applicant was staff recommended that the applicant either independently request a general plan amendment or rezoning or wait for the general the 2050 general plan to move forward. The applicant elected to wait. The general plan amendment was adopted and the subsequent rezoning package was adopted on 11/04/2025, and that resulted in the site being rezoned to TBM. So under the zoning code, the commission's review focuses specifically on alcohol sales and extended hours. The code directs the commission to consider public convenience, public safety factors such as crime and calls for service, alcohol outlet concentration, compatibility with nearby uses and site design features that help reduce nuisance activity.

Those site design features would include visibility and natural surveillance, measures to discourage loitering, lighting and security features. This the yellow that you see here indicates the area of the ABC census track which includes the subject property. There are currently five businesses that currently have alcohol off sale retail licenses that include Whole Foods, Target, Safeway, seven eleven and the Coddingtown Bolero. Included in your late correspondence was also the on sale alcohol retail businesses. That includes a Super Chavez market across the street.

They actually hold a type 41 alcohol license which is tied to their restaurant use. So it's a restaurant related alcohol license. And they're able to sell beer and wine to go. With the change of the building use from a paint store to the proposed commercial building, our traffic division had some concerns with the existing circulation. And with the traffic study that was prepared with the project.

The traffic engineer had two potential recommendations that the applicant could implement with the site design. The applicant decided to go with this design which includes a revised parking configuration which would be entry on Guernville Road and an exit on Herbert Lane. It would eliminate the angled parking that currently exists. It would eliminate the the row of parking on the north the north row and This would improve circulation access and it avoids the need for off-site improvements. This would also include parking for bicycles and ADA spaces.

Now the project involves reuse of an existing 5,040 square foot commercial building. The proposed market would provide 17 on-site spaces and while the zoning code would otherwise require 20 spaces, the site is located within one half mile the North Station, the North Santa Rosa Smart Station and qualifies under Assembly Bill 2,097. And that prohibits the city from imposing parking minimums for qualifying transit adjacent sites. So while they don't provide 20 spaces, they're very close. This aerial shows what the existing parking configuration looks like.

So you can see the angled parking, the two rows to the north and south. And this is what it would look like with the change. So with the notice of application mailed in July 2024 in the neighborhood meeting, which was very well attended in September 2024, Staff received several written comments during the review period and after those notices were mailed. Common concerns include alcohol sales, hours of operation, parking and circulation, safety and security, nearby business concerns regarding extended hours and alcohol sales. I did receive some late correspondence that was not included in your packet just a few minutes before a meeting regarding crime issues related to unhoused individuals with bicycle theft and vandalism with the nearby residential multifamily buildings.

There were some supportive comments from the regarding the people excited about having a neighborhood serving market and having this vacant building activated. Staff considered concerns related to crime, late night activity, and alcohol sales in light of code findings and consultation with the lieutenant that specifically assigned to this BEAT. Recommended conditions of approval include exterior lighting, surveillance cameras, on-site management presence and operational standards intended to discourage loitering and reduce nuisance activity and protect nearby residential uses. So these were some of the issues that we resolved while evaluating this project. The major one was the zoning consistency.

So the site was rezoned from PI to TBM under the general plan which allowed neighborhood retail by right. Which allowed the proposal to go forward. The circulation issues were resolved with the applicant deciding on the circulation change and then the operational controls that the applicant included in his project description and we included in the conditions of approval, which include exterior lighting, surveillance cameras, on-site management, and measures to discourage loitering. The Santa Rosa Police Department reviewed and review to the proposed project as part of the interdepartmental review and SRPPD provide dispatch crime and arrest data for the vicinity of the project site covering recent years. The data reflects a range of incidents typical of a commercial corridor including traffic stops, suspicious persons, property crimes and occasional disorder related offenses occurring primarily at nearby intersections such as Grumville Road and Coffee Lane.

Based on departmental operational experience, SRPD indicated that the Coddingtown area is generally within the middle range of citywide crime levels and is not characterized as a high crime area relative to other parts of Santa Rosa. Police also noted that several existing retail establishments in the surrounding area sell alcoholic beverages and did not identify the proposed accessory alcohol sales as creating additional public safety concerns. Police further noted that operational and environmental design features such as exterior lighting, surveillance cameras, and active site management can help discourage nuisance activity when properly maintained and these measures are incorporated into the conditions of approval. This project was reviewed for CEQA. It's category exempt with fifteen three zero one for existing facilities and fifteen three zero three for minor construction tenant improvements.

Because it's an existing building being reused. It's includes minor tenant improvements with no expansion of the building footprints and no CEQA exceptions apply. And then just to note there was a noticing issue that was brought to staff's attention yesterday. It was noted that a on-site sign was missing. Staff confirmed that the required public hearing sign was originally installed.

And we have both an installer's affidavit and photo documentation confirming it was posted during the notice period. The sign installer inadvertently removed the sign on Tuesday of this week at approximately eleven a. M. Believing the hearing had already occurred due to the earlier February 26 hearing date. Once staff became aware and inquired with the applicant, the applicant immediately reinstalled the sign yesterday afternoon and provided photographic confirmation.

Staff also confirmed that it was reinstalled. Additionally, zoning code section 20 dash 66.02 a three states that a defect in the notice procedure shall not affect the jurisdiction or authority of a review authority to take action on a matter unless otherwise provided by law applicable to and binding upon a charter city. Based on the documentation confirming the sign was properly posted during the noticing period staff believes the noticing requirements were satisfied and the commission may proceed with a hearing. With that, it is recommended by the Planning and Economic Development Department that the Planning Commission approve a major conditional use permit to allow alcoholic beverage sales for off-site consumption, extended hours of operation from six a. M.

To twelve a. M, seven days per week, located at 1478 Gernville Road, subject to conditions of approval. The applicant is available. Would like to make a presentation. We have representatives from engineering and also I believe the police is available via Zoom.

Thank you. Thank you. Are there any questions of staff before we hear from the applicant? Okay. So, is there a presentation that they have?

If

you have a presentation please go to one of the podiums and provide your presentation. And you may want to raise the podium a little bit. There's a button on the other side. Because you have to talk really closely.

Alright. Can you guys hear me?

Yes.

Okay. Good. Alright. Good evening chair and members of the commission. My name

is Can you speak a little closer to the microphone? I'm sorry. It might be as high as it goes.

I'll scoot up a little bit. Yeah. Good evening, chair and members of the commission. My name is Harman Dillon. I'm the applicant for the MD market project.

I'd like to begin by thanking staff for their time and effort in reviewing the project, preparing the staff report. And I understand that commission has already reviewed the details, so I will briefly focus on the type of market we are proposing and the role it will serve for the neighborhood. Our goal is to operate a neighborhood market that provides a wide range of everyday food items, household necessities for nearby residents, the store will carry a variety of groceries and prepared foods so people can easily pick up items they need close to home. For example, we plan to carry dairy products such as milk, butter, yogurt, cheese, half and half. We offer canned goods such as soups, vegetables, beans, pasta sauce, condensed milk, and many other organic products, non organic products, grocery items that families commonly buy such as breads, pasta and much more.

We'll also offer refrigerated and prepared food options including deli meats, sandwiches, wraps, quick meal items. In addition, the market will carry frozen food items as well such as pizzas, burgers, breakfast items, breakfast burritos, frozen meals, including well known brands that we currently carry such as Amy's. Another important point is that we do participate in the SNAP program, which is a federal food assistance program administered by the USDA. In order to participate in this program, retailers must meet strict requirements and guidelines to offer a variety of staple food categories such as dairy, meats, vegetables, and other grocery products. The USDA also conducts inspections and compliance and checks to make sure participating locations and stores continue offering a variety of foods following the program rules.

The program is important to us because it allows us to serve members of the community who rely on food assistance while ensuring we maintain a true grocery offering. While we do plan to sell beer, wine and spirits, those items will simply be a part of a broader neighborhood market, similar to what you would see in many other grocery stores and small markets throughout the city. I also want to emphasize that this will be a locally managed business and we personally are going to be involved in it on a day to day daily basis. We take pride in maintaining clean, well run markets as we have been, as our family has been for the past thirty plus years, originally started the MD market on Mission Boulevard in Rincon Valley. Because we will be present regularly, we want to be good neighbors.

If any issues arise related to our business, we want the nearby residents and the community to know that we will be present at that location so they can come up to us, reach out to us directly so the concerns can be addressed quickly and responsibly. As staff members, we want to run a clean, well tamed market and business, and we want this location to be safe. The safer it is, the more inviting it is, the more appealing it is, it's going to be better for us. We do not tolerate any loitering, we do not tolerate any sort of nuisance that will disturb our business or the community. We have been operating 15 plus locations in Sonoma County for the past thirty years, and our landlords and that community have been very supportive and have seen us succeed.

We have already been established in many, many neighborhoods such as Rincon Valley, Bennett Valley, Windsor, West County, Occidental, Graydon, and we have been there for numbers, at some places over decades, and the community has been very supportive of us, and we've always gotten positive feedback. At the end of the day, this project activates a vacant property and provides offering a wide variety, wide range of foods and everyday essentials to the surrounding community. So thank you so much for your time and your consideration, and I'm available to answer any and all questions that commission may have.

Thank you. Any questions of the applicant? Okay. So why don't you take a seat for now?

Thank you.

Thank you. I will go ahead and open the public hearing on this item. If you're in the audience and wish to make a comment, please make your way to one of the podiums. State your name for the record, and you will have three minutes. There is a countdown timer right there.

Okay.

Hi, my name is Steph Curry. Oh, excuse me. My name is Doctor. Les Shipley today. And I'm an optometrist who has a building of 1430 Grenville Road right next to the old Kelly Moore Stadium. I'm here building. I'm here to protest allowing MD Liquors to open in that store, not allow them to have extended hours from six a. M. To midnight. Now, I've sent e mail to the Planning Commission e mail, but I wanted to summarize the reasons why they should not be allowed to sell alcohol, and especially not with extended hours.

First, the area is for professional buildings with medical offices and other professional businesses. Empty Liquors does not fit in with those professional businesses. Two, there's apartments right behind that building, immediately behind that, that have had problems with crime. Specifically, they have outdoor mailboxes that have been vandalized. And according to and other crimes.

According to police reports, stores like Empty Liquors attract people who commit crime and can make it unsafe. There are plenty of other stores, as it was noted by Chris today, within a quarter mile that sell liquor and alcohol. Number four, my employees and patients would not feel safe coming to a building which is next to MD Liquors. Now, I have many patients who are either older, children, or they have other types of risk. Again, a story like MD Liquors is not conducive to that atmosphere.

Five, the smart train operates very, very close to there. And people getting off that train, a lot of times it's dark or getting there in the morning. That's a store like Empty Liquor is not conducive to being next to a place like that because people are going to go on and off the train during the dark. And finally, his point about selling vegetables and foods. If you've ever gone into any of the stores, it's highly, highly advertised to sell alcohol.

There are some definitely other kinds of foods there, but it's strictly or mostly liquor and alcohol. I just want to thank you for allowing me to make my presentation. And please consider that that type of liquor market doesn't really fit in that area. Next person who speaks is a very special person that you should hear. She happens to be my wife, Janice.

Thank you. You might want to, you can lower the podium on the others. There's a button right there.

What button? There's a button on the right or left.

On your right.

There. Speak close.

Okay. Hello. My name is Janice Shipley and I am here to let you know that I am very concerned about the kind of patronage that may be happening at this particular area. Now if and I have to tell you the the times of the shop being open, 6AM to twelve, where they sell alcohol is very objectionable to me. Especially next to professional offices, tax people, all kinds of businesses that are called businesses in a professional park of Plaza.

So, having to be next door to places that sell alcohol up until midnight and starting at 6AM makes me worry for any of my kids or grandkids that would want to sit in the office knowing that there were people next door buying alcohol and they could just walk over. It's just it's a little bit too much for the culture of that particular area, especially because it's such a high residential area. So, you know, I would have to say that that wanting to provide food services is a great idea. In fact, I would love it if at 6AM, he would open a boutique coffee shop because it has a beautiful blue awnings already. It would be lovely for for breakfast place.

But as far as alcohol goes, I think we have enough alcohol in the area. I mean, there's there's a a place that goes till midnight, you know, two blocks away, and then one block away, there's another one that goes to eleven p. M. It's it's just way too much alcohol in that area as far as I'm concerned. The other thing that's very important to remember and I I I apologize that I sent my email late last night.

Just a last minute notification to you regarding some literature that I have read about the increased crime that happens with alcohol sales late at night. There was a study that the Boston University people did for the city of Baltimore, which showed that there was a 23% rise in violent crimes when alcohol stores were open till that late at night. It was reduced by 23% when they reduced the hours of sale of alcohol. And I'd like to, you know, hopefully, you'll get a chance to read my email that talks a little bit more about that. The lighting is the need for lighting would be extreme.

The need for more police presidents would be extreme. And I think that it would cost the city a whole lot more to have those services. Thank you.

Anybody else who would like to make a comment?

Good evening. My name is James Nobles. I'm a commercial broker in the community here, and I am here to voice my support of the project for MD Liquor. I have followed the project closely heard and read some of the concerns of the community and I thought it was a really important thing to consider for this particular project is the quality of the operator. I believe that in these kinds of scenarios that that is an important factor to consider in the safety and success of an operation like this.

The operator has a strong reputation for running professional well managed establishments and being a member of the community. That kind of active management will improve the safety with the oversight, lighting, security and measures in place. And the site will be monitored and active in the evening rather than sitting underutilized. I also want to point out that I think it is a use that is consistent with the new general plan and ultimately will be a positive establishment supporting the retail commercial uses and as well as the train users. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other comments? Okay, so with that I will go ahead and close the public hearing and bring it back to the Commission. I have a couple of questions and then I'll open it up to my fellow commissioners. Our role is not to approve the market. It is to approve the conditional use permit related to the alcohol sales. Is that correct?

That's correct. The retail the market is permitted by right so the items before you are the alcohol sales and the extended hours of operation. And the normal hours of operation permitted by Wright are six to eleven and they're requesting to operate from six to midnight.

Thank you. Think that was it for now. I may have some questions for the applicant, but I want to hear what my fellow commissioners have to say. So, Commissioner Cisco. I have a

couple questions for the applicant.

Okay. Mr. Dillon then. And we'll start with you Ms. Sisco.

So could you explain the reasoning behind your request for the extended hours?

Yes. So in our experience as living in Santa Rosa or Sonoma County and being a business owner, we have staff that obviously

you get a

little closer

to I'm sorry.

Will never get

used to

Or just hold onto it.

I'll just hold onto it, yeah. Thanks. We have staff that start as early as 5AM, and we have staff that work till as late as 10PM. And the reason for it, we have other markets in the area like Graton, for example, where we do stay open late, extended hours, and we do have folks coming in after work or before work as early as like five a. M. That is primarily the reason to offer for the community before work and then if they are coming home after work. There's not a lot of places out there that are staying open till that late.

Okay. And then do you have an idea of how much square footage in your store will be related to market use versus alcohol use?

Yes. So we typically, we're gonna have majority of our it's 5,000 square feet. We are gonna have an office there as well where I will be there. We'll have on-site. And as far as the food food item goes, we're gonna have most all of the middle area is going to be food, and anything all car related will be on the side.

As far as the exact square footage, I I I don't know off the top of my head what it would be, but this would be the largest footprint that we would have, so we are definitely trying to offer as much food as we can. And as far as alcohol goes, look, there's we're not just going to be throwing a bunch of alcohol here. We're not going we're not making this into a with all due respect, like a bedmo. That's not our intention at all whatsoever. Again, with all due respect to their businesses, it's you're not going to walk in and just see an abundance of all calls sitting there and nothing else. That I can for sure promise you.

Okay. Thank you.

Vice chair Doug.

Yeah. I have a question for staff. As part of the CUP process, can we condition any project to not display like the neon alcohol related signs that a lot of this our typical liquor stores.

Believe our sign code would prohibit that Anyway,

even in inside the windows of a

yes, so it would not that our sign code prohibits those type of signs

Okay. Because you do see them all over town.

But if we if

you see those our code enforcement operates on a complaint basis. So

okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Just a little more on the extra hours. We see from ABC in our own codes talk about need or convenience for liquor. There there been any demonstration of extra convenience for the extra hour? I understand the applicant's position on his staffing, but does it really add to the neighborhood functionality?

Question for staff or for the applicant?

For staff.

The PCN or the public convenience and necessity findings don't are separate from the extended hours of operation. So that's a separate use in and of itself. And ABC didn't really weigh in on the extended hours. I mean overall ABC has the state of California has a limit of when you have to stop selling alcohol. So I mean they don't really weigh in on the extended hours. We did consult with the police however how they feel about extended hours.

And their general response?

They didn't seem to have a concern with extended hours because of the security measures, the lighting that the applicant was, and the conditions of approval that we were gonna impose.

Could we get Lieutenant Hackett please somewhere?

I believe the Lieutenant Lieutenant Hackett is on Zoom. I can't see who's on but I think is it Lieutenant Hackett?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. So Charles do you wanna?

Well well I thought staff answered my question but there there was no concern. What we heard was there was little concern from the police that the extended hours would add to the possibility of bad behavior.

That's correct.

Okay. Thank you. That's it just for that. Thank you. Any other? So I have a question for the applicant and it kinda goes to commissioner Cisco's question about the amount of square footage that is dedicated to food versus alcohol. In your other stores that are similar to this and I take it that none of them are because this is the largest, but just generally what percentage of your business is alcohol? Do you have an idea?

I would say it's less than 30%. In some areas like Occidental, where we do operate more in a style where we're trying to do here, it's less than 20%.

Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. So I'll start off with some comments. I I would really like to see the hours reduced.

You mean a resolution first?

Need a resolution.

Okay. Sure. Who's?

I can do it. Okay. I move a resolution of the Planning Commission of the City of Santa Rosa making findings and determinations and approving a major conditional use permit for alcoholic beverage sales for off-site consumption and extended hours of operation 6AM to 12AM, seven days per week located at 147A Gernville Road, file number PRJ24-fourteenCUP24-twenty7 and waive further reading of the text.

Thank you. Is there a second?

I'll second. Okay.

So that was moved by commissioner Cisco, seconded by commissioner Carter. So, okay. I'll wait till the end then. Commissioner Sisco, comments.

Well, I wanna repeat again what my concern is between the discrepancy of what it says we look at and what we actually can look at when we're reviewing these kinds of cases. And just put out a request because you know Commissioner Carter's point, there's also a big discrepancy between the ABC areas and the BEAT areas of the police department. And so unless we see those maps, the ABC can say there's no over concentration but there's a line and then there's four of the next one. So it would be helpful I think until the zoning code is changed or whatever that when we're looking at alcohol sales we actually get a copy of the map, know, with the lines and alcohol sales on both sides and also have a police beat overlay. So we have an understanding of who's saying what where until we can get more clear about what the police department can or cannot actually provide.

So that's just a suggestion before since we're gonna be seeing more of these that would be helpful I think to the commission in order to kind of find our way through this. That being said, I'm not wild about the extended hours of operation but when I look at when I look at alcohol sales I'm always looking for where are the dead spots that nuisances can occur as a result of the off sale uses. And when I look at this site, the site is the dead spot in this neighborhood. It is a nuisance just by virtue of being empty. I think the fact that it would be populated and you know there's gonna be an administrative piece there, a manager on-site, lots of lighting activity takes away from the nuisance in terms of what that neighborhood is probably experiencing.

Hard to tell with a 100 pages of police statistics that we looked at and what they actually mean. But that's my sense is that the reasoning that activating that building will actually decrease the nuisance in the area. And you know I'm a little torn on the extended hours. Again, if there's it's populated, it's lit. You know, I'm torn so I'll to what other people say but I'm going to be in favor of this application to be able to make the findings and get my request on record for further the next time we have to review one of these.

Thank you.

Well, am in agreement that activating this building is gonna help this neighborhood a lot. But I do think one of the dead spots is very nearby and if the Super Chavez Market closes at nine p. M. People can go to this market, buy alcohol and go to the bike path behind the market and create a nuisance there. And I'm so I am in favor of reducing the hours if that's possible.

I also asked a question about the neon lights because I did go to one of the MD markets on 3rd Street in Fulton and it looks for all the world like an alcohol store. It does have food products inside but it's every window has a neon light from a beer wine distributor. So I think if you want to be a food store, that's great. I'm glad to hear that there that you have a relationship with the USDA and the snap program because then that you're required to carry certain food products and I think that's fabulous. But if you look like an alcohol store, it's gonna be worse for your business than than if you don't.

But otherwise I can I can support the application, but I would be in favor of reduced hours?

Thank you. Commissioner Carter.

Yeah, my view is very similar to my colleagues. I generally support the application and staff's recommendation. I don't know that the additional hour has been thoroughly justified. So I would entertain reducing to the standard hours. I would prefer not to do it at the expense of extending the application. If we can do it here tonight, that would be my preference.

Thank you. Commissioner Horton.

Thank you. Yeah, I agree with a lot of what's been said. But I'm actually in favor of the extended hours. And part of the rationale, I think, for me, in addition to what Commissioner Sisko said and others, is you look at this in the context of our general plan and our kind of broader city and regional goals, you have the last smart train from the South coming in at 09:59 p. M.

And I'll tell you as a single 34 year old guy, I could see myself getting off that train after a long day at work or events or whatever, going home to my apartment on Coffee Lane and then at 10:50 I leave to go pick up some snacks or a drink or something. And it'd be really nice to have that extended hour market there in the context of, I think, what we're trying to do, which is create this mixed use transit village with high density housing and a little more diversity of uses and walkability. And so I think this is just the kind of thing that I'd like to see there. And then I also think, I mean, I'm comfortable with I agree that it'd be better to have better data about what impacts of the alcohol would be. But to the extent that we have what we have, the police are saying it's not a problem.

So if we're going into the realm of sort of speculation here, and I'm not saying that critically, but just to the extent that we're maybe drawing inferences, Like I think the people who are going to be drinking in the ditch off the bike path can get there before eleven p. M, right? I don't think I don't see that being the people who are negatively impacted by the shorter hours. I think it really is the person in the community who is sort of living that slightly unconventional lifestyle but who could benefit from this kind of more like, again, mixed use sort of later night lifestyle. So thank you.

Thank you. I am in favor of the project but would like to see the hours reduced and whether they are put back to eleven or ten or nine. I think I should like to see 10:00, but I'm not sure what we can do. I think it's eleven. I'm seeing nods.

Permitted by right is eleven.

Okay. Yeah. My proposal would be that it the hour be from six to eleven. And, yes?

Can you describe how onerous it is for an applicant if you do reduce the hours and if let's say over time with all the building all the things that we've approved in the area all the apartments get built and occupied and there is more of a need for later hours. How onerous is it to come back and have the hours revised?

So he would have to come back and reapply for another major conditional use permit.

Hold on one second. I'm gonna check the changes that you just recommended. That may be down to a minor use permit. Give me one moment. Yeah, so actually the current requirement is for a minor use permit.

So normally if this was just extended hours it would be minor use permit that would go to the zoning administrator. It came before the commission because it was included as part of the major conditional use permit for the alcohol sales. And as part of the proposal that you recommended move forward to council earlier this afternoon, it would be dropped down to a director level. So again it would still have a noticing requirement and an ability for moving it up to a public hearing if a neighbor requested that but otherwise it would be at the director level.

Okay. So with that I my proposal is that it be six to eleven.

So in order to do that we would need to modify the resolution verbiage to strike the extended hours of operation language and then also there is condition number Sorry.

Here it is.

There's a condition that specifies the hours as well that I'm trying to find. It is Numbers. Oh, We need to take a break to discuss if there are other areas of the resolution that need to be modified to address your

I may be the only one that want

Okay.

This. I'd like to get a feel from the commission and miss Crocker. Tell me if I'm doing something I shouldn't.

No. You guys can just have kind of informal straw poll, but we will wanna have a discussion as to whether or not we'd have to have some findings of denial for extended hours and parse this out into two since it was two separate applications. So it may not be just as easy as crossing something out. So why don't you guys have maybe kind of a straw poll discussion as to this extra one hour and we'll discuss here while you do that as well. So

since it's just that extra hour and I was I was thinking it would be more like the Chavez market but it can't be. So I'm thinking

Yeah. I'm kind of Not in alignment with mister

You know,

Commissioner Horton. So I would probably just go with the extended hour as it stands based on you know how he stated what we're trying to do, what we're trying to activate and that it is close to the smart train. That's where I would stand.

Yeah,

I don't want to overwork this and I think Commissioner Horton made some good points in the spirit of young new urbanism. And I could live with that extra hour. Okay. It's going to be onerous to change things.

Okay. I'm also in agreement.

Okay. So I withdraw and so we've all said that we are supportive and can make the findings. So I believe unless staff tells me otherwise, we have a vote.

Thank you chair. Commissioner Carter.

Aye.

Commissioner Sisco. Aye. Commissioner Horton aye Vice chair Duggan

aye Chair weeks aye

let the record reflect that that passes with five eyes

Six eyes, right? Yeah. Five. Oh, there's oh, that's right. The other one left. Sorry. Okay. Please note this action is final unless an appeal is filed with the city clerk's office within ten calendar days of today's decision pursuant to zoning code section 20 dash 62 dot zero three zero. And with that, I will go ahead and adjourn the Planning Commission meeting. Thank you.