Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

instead of six. Oh, she tells it. Yes. Yeah. The meeting is called to order. So, I'll hand over to H. You can call No. Call of allegiance first. Let's rise for the pledge of allegiance, please. [Music] I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Paul Eevee Dundis here. Present. Zachary Khid present. Steve Miner present. Uh Paul Wright present. tomorrow de Martinez here. [Music] I guess the first thing we should do is uh ask for the adoption of the meeting minutes from last last time last May. Can I have a um resolution on that and a motion to adopt those? I would approve and entertain a motion to adopt the minutes of our last meeting in May. I'll second. Okay. I vote yes to approve. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Everyone voted yes. The adoption of the um meeting minutes from May to the All right. So, uh, we have some old business starting out and the first one is PLZBA

2025 0013 558 River [Music] Street. This is 0013 0013. Yes. Good evening. I'm uh Adam from Aderandic Design Company representing uh Bargain Grocery and First Colombia. Um we came here originally with uh two requests. Um we were asked two requests, a building sign and a freestanding sign. Building sign um from my understanding from the last meeting seemed everybody seem to be relatively happy with it. Um but the freestanding sign um we you guys had asked me to make a reduction in size of the letters. We had done that when we had come back last time. You had asked for a reduction in the size of the sign. Uh we did that. We moved the bargain grocery logo off that would hang off of it into the center and it just says bargain grocery bargain grocery excuse me and parking. Very simple. We toned it way down. What is the dimension of that sign? It is 60 by 36. Is this the parking sign you're talking about? Yes, sir. The one on Husk Street. Yes. From what I understand, um it's prohibited by zoning code for the Husk Street. even if it's a leased piece of property. [Music] Um I was given that section of the statute recently between the last meeting and this meeting and I understand there's a question of is it off-site signage? First of all, I'm Nathaniel Betty from First Colombia. Sorry I couldn't be here last time. Um, the project actually received an award

that I had to go out of town to receive down in Pikipsy, uh, from the New York State Office of Historic Preservation and the Landmark Society of Western New York, which is great. Um, what I didn't understand from the statute was, is this really offsite? It's a contiguous plot to the parcel that Bark and Grocery currently now sits on. Our um assessment of it is it's just a wayfinding vehicle for somebody to see that you can get into the parking from Huzzac Street into the kind of landlocked lot that sits next to the building and otherwise there's really no way to find your way into that parking area if there's not wayfinding signage. I don't know. Have you looked at it um from the legal standpoint? I'm going to look at it right now. Okay. One second. What is your lease? Hi, Joe Costello with First Columbia. We leased the parking lot from the DOT. How long is your lease for? Uh, yeah. The first one was for three years. How long is the current How long is the current lease for? Um, until the DOT puts it back out for uh a public bid. It's Do you mean you're It's like a holdover sort of tenency or something like that. Correct. Until Yeah, it's a it's a license. Uh we've had it for I believe five years since they put out to bid. Right. So there was an initial three-year lease and then

you've held over with the license. Uh correct. And at some point they may or may not put it out to bid. Is that That's correct. Okay. Number three. all preferences signs. So when I read this and I'm interested in your legal opinion because you have the JD and I don't but I look at that and see off premises signs billboards that are defined as signs located on a parcel of land other than that parcel where the business service or event advertise is located. Is the intent of that to stop someone from say I'm four blocks north on River Street and I want to tell someone on Huzzik Street, hey drive four blocks up and you can find my business far away. I think that's what you're trying to do is stop someone from hosting things kind of far from where the business is located to direct them to go find it. This is different where you're on an adjacent parcel on music street, but it's contiguous to the parcel that Bargain Grocery sits on at 558 telling people just turn in this way to find your way into the parking. And again, we have the license with DOT to go do this. We reviewed the submitt with DOT. They have no problem with it. So, what happens if you lose your lease? proposal for the proposal next. I don't really know what to say yet. I think we have to take the sign down, which the way it's constructed, it's fairly easy to do, but after they just did a major rehabilitation of the bridge overpass, I don't see a reason they would need to exercise that, right? In the near

future, at least. What is the least area used for? Just [Music] parking for the grocery store specifically that lot. We have a license with the number of under overpass lots from that stretch of Route 7 that will the lot where the um sign is located which is under the bridge correct. Correct. be used for or be allowed to will will customers use it who uh shop at the bargain grocery? Yes. That would be the overflow lot in case the main lot which is right next to the front entrance fills up. That's the next logical off streetet place for people to park. Yes. And it How far is it to walk from that lotion? I think it's 170 ft from the corner of the building to this sign location. So, it's even closer than that from the parking spaces on this lot to Groceries front door. Is is that lot that you lease or license to use is it uh at Fifth and uh who's it or is that the alley? It's really the alley in Huzzac where it te's in. That's where the curve is. Earl Street. Well, I think it changes to North First Street once you're above Huzik. Can you pull up Google Maps? It's North First Street behind uh the Ae House. I know that. So maybe I think that's where it transitions to North First Street. And there is there is an interruption of the alley at our property. Once you get past our neighbor who's on the corner of Huzzac and River, it's actually our parcel and then it transitions back to a public rightway behind Barton Groceries building traversing north. So, can I ask you a question? So, this sign is leading me to the overflow lot, correct? It's really leading you to the main lot, but it would also indirectly lead you to the overflow lot. And have

we needed to overflow? Not yet. We're still trying to help them ramp up as a business. And this is kind of the main reason to ask for parking signage in the first place is we're trying to direct people to the store that don't know it's there. And it's a difficult lot to access because of the geometry of the city. The only other way to really make it efficient would be you could buy this building and demolish it and then you'd have a clear view, but is that a good use of anyone's time and resources just to make it convenient for that access when you can just direct somebody through this way and get into that lot. That's unrelated to the signage. I know you have hours that are that's what he's saying. The lot is this one. the building. Are those going to change? Because I know that you're closed on Sun Sunday or something like that which is actually a shopping day and you're closed Monday through Saturday. My t my tenants closed then. Yeah, Monday through Saturday is Monday through Saturday. So, which I mean to me as a family person, you know, Sunday's a big shopping day. You know, Monday's the I forgot to go shopping on Sunday day. I mean, have you guys thought about, again, I know this isn't part of the signage, but have you guys thought about changing your hours or adding hours? They eventually will ramp up and there's other services, not just related to hours, that they're trying to get started with, but they want to build a base of business first before they get too ramped up. Yes. Have a couple questions. Do you have a copy of that lease that was signed and given to you by DOT for our review, the license? I mean, we can, but this is where the sign is going to be. Right. I think it's on the north side. It's right by the stop sign. I think go the other way. Other side. It's right where the stop sign is. Right there. In front of this red car right here. Okay. To go down that alley to go up.

Yeah. And it is at North First Street. Yes, I was right. So by Sorry. No, go ahead. 3x five. 36 by 60. What? We talked about a different design last time. Yeah, we did change. Do you have a request? Yeah, we did. Do you have it? Do you have a a render or anything? Yeah, I I didn't see much. This is the new submission. You can pass those around, Adam. They send out today. I didn't see that. While that picture is going around, can I continue with a couple questions? The land that the grocery store itself sits on, who owns that land? We do through a partnership. Who owns the parking lot directly behind it? The small bullet that's off of North First Street as it tease into Vanderhiden Street. Is that what you're referring to? Yeah, right behind We own those too. You own that too. Just It's a few spots though, Angeline. If you can go north on the alley, just click that way and we'll get to them. Those are really staff parking spaces. If you pan this way, there's a few spots right here. This is an older image, by the way. So, this is kind of not improved the way it is currently, but there are, I think, six spots going this way. And our property line comes across the back of these lots, but it's just been paved and striped. There's no other improvement. We didn't block access or anything. This lot, right where your hand is, we own this

Who who owns the lot where the sign where the sign's going? It's part of the transportation. She owns which you have a license for it. Yes. Why couldn't you use that lot for additional parking? This is staff parking and it's not very big. What we're trying to do is use the DOT lot, which is much bigger, and the lot that's right next to the building. If you go this way, Angelina, back down towards the main entrance. This is a loading dock now. So, that's not parking anymore. Evie, do you want to see last month? No, I I I have it. So, actually, Angelie, stay right here. This is the main lot. If there was no building here, we would probably have tried to do a curb cut off of River Street and just come right in. But because there's a building there and there's a gray change, if we ramped up to this, you would chew up so many spaces in here and make it not worth the time to go through that exercise. So, we're trying to leave the physical environment that's presented around us and just enter through the back off of Huzek, which is what people had been doing before this tendency took over for Barn Grocery. That's the main reason we've kind of oriented all of the ins and outs the way they are right now. You really don't have a current need for additional parking as we sit here. It's not as much of a parking request. It's more to show a customer this is how you get into the existing parking. So I'm not saying like I need more space. I think we're actually great with what we have. And overall for the whole Flanigan Square project, we have a very good amount of parking for all the uses we have. And they're all off hour to each other, which is what makes a good mixeduse project. All we're trying to do is direct a customer to be able to

access that lot. And it's a tough thing to teach someone when there's no signs to kind of point them in the right direction. You own the building, the brick building to the right. No, we do not. Which we own this building and we own directly across the street. The former Flanigan Square building is being rehabbed into apartments. And why did you um earlier you said you thought the the DOT lot was contiguous to the I thought you were saying it is because if I actually need a lot map to show this accurately, but North First Street's right ofway ends back at this corner and does touch the DOT land on this end. If you look at a tax map, you will see that. So, the alley stops at the corner of this building going down. We actually own the alley until it touches North First Street in that lot. Was that something that you acquired? No, it came with the purchase of 558 River Street. So, when Smith Beauty owned it as the prior fe simple holder, that land plus the lot you talked about on the back came with this building. Is there no way you could put like a different sign on the front of that weird piece of concrete that I can't penetrate that just says parking around back with a sign? Weird piece of concrete on this side. Yeah. Well, like we're doing that. Oh, you mean this going this way? Right. Because this is that's where I can't get into the parking lot, right? Correct. You have to go around the corner. Right. So, isn't there which when you go around the corner, you'll see the other sign that we've submitted for that's mounted to the loading dock that sends you through the alley. Yes. But I mean, why can't you just put a small sign on your

concrete there that says parking run back? Because we're trying to pull people off of Puzz Street that might go by that curb cut and then miss it and then get frustrated and say, "Oh, the heck with this. I'm just going to go to the suburbs and shop." Like, we're trying to create a magnet for this. I don't know. I think that your store is not a win. I think people are going to come to it because they're going to it eventually. Yes. And that's our hope. We're trying to make it easy in the interim so that the customer can find their way into this lot specifically and just make it an easy experience so that when they do figure it out for the first time, it becomes a habit and then no one's worried about it. So the north first street alley can traffic from street either going uh east or west in or out. Yes. Access this parking lot right here from that path. Yes. From that alley. So you're trying to direct traffic on who's Yes. I think Tamara's comment has a lot of merit. I think there's an awful lot of signage on who's extreme. I think you might be better served to do what she suggested, but that's my own opinion. Can we go back to Who's Street? Yeah, just on proper so we can look. [Music] So, the amount of signage I respectfully disagree. I mean, you see mostly the murals under the bridge pierce, but there's not a lot of signage going up. Yes, because that's your main commercial corridor through the city. And that makes sense. You have a big shopping center and then a lot of general commercial retail. Underneath though, there's not much. I mean, you have the beautifification projects under the bridge peers, but and I don't think we're asking for a lot with just a parking sign

part of the package. Excuse me for a second. going through all this back and forth with the signage. Um, I'm originally from Cahose. My mother still lives in Cahose. She worked at St. Mary's Hospital as a nurse for 20ome years. With all this, I said I said to my mother last time says, "Do me a favor. We got this project we're doing on um River Street." I says, "Do me a favor. Can you go there, shop, and find it?" I explained to her where it was. She goes, "Oh, yeah. I know where it is. You know, I know where." She almost could not find how to get in the parking lot. Said it was very frustrating. She says, "If you didn't ask me to go," she says, "I would have kept on going." It was real simple request. She lives across the river. And like I said, she's familiar with Troy, worked at St. Mary's for 20 years. This is I've got a uh another question with regards to your overall submission uh in particular your short environmental assessment form. Um in your prior submission uh on um question 20 you mentioned underground storage tanks. I didn't mention that. The state automatically flagged it as an answer when Adam filled it out through the mapper tool. So the state is arbitrary in its tagging. Yeah. I a check or uh of yes or no. We did a full explanation. As I said in the first meeting, we said we did a full phase one and phase two. There are no USS on this site. What about contaminated soil? No contaminated soils either. We did borings. Nothing came back dirty on your own properties. Correct. On these properties and they were sampled on the various lots that came with the purchase, not just the building lot. and Eevee the last meeting they updated that they fixed that and I saw the It

actually wasn't Adam's fault or his admin's fault. It was when you go I don't know if you've used the mapper yourself to research a property when you put in the address and hone in on that tax map parcel it just answers what it has in its system for data related to that site. So we have the same problem. You might you might bring this up again for my next submission for 547. They actually tagged the Hudson River as a um hazardous waste site. And since it touches the back of 547 shoreline, I think that's what actually triggered the Well, when you have one submission that includes it and you have another submission that doesn't include it without explanation in the document, it it looks questionable. No, I understand. But from going through it myself afterwards, talking to Adam and seeing what the mapper tool did, that is how it came to be checked. It wasn't something that we actually as long as the boards were done. Yes, that is a substantive explanation. [Music] Well, I mean, yeah, there's there's different ways. It's actually difficult to abandon right away. So I don't know what happened here whether [Music] anything I don't know we don't either. I mean I mean it's uh it takes you know a couple acts several acts of the city council to get rid of to uh abandon the public right away. And I'm not sure what what was done in this case. So, uh, right now it it appears to be I'm sorry. It appears that, uh, the alley is traversible its entire length between Husk and, uh, um, Vanderhiden Street. Vanerhigh. Is that Is that true? We reestablished the section behind the building that was overgrown and kind of at an impass. There was actually a very steep slope that we kind of feathered out to make it so vehicles to access your parking lot get all the way through

again can come in from Vanderhiden or come in from us. Okay. All right. And we did that to encourage the access from the two sides. I mean is much more heavy traffic than Vanderhiden. So we're trying to encourage people to come in and out from Vanderhiden or from Huzzac rather and not overload Vanderhiden. Not that it would from a traffic standpoint, but just from a practicality standpoint, that's probably better for traffic on Who's [Music] [Music] it going to [Music] Okay. Exactly what we started this off. We asked, right? We need we we have to have talk. We need to know if it's legal or not. Yeah, that's we started off with with that. It's not legal to put the sign up. I don't think we've ever answered that. Yes, it is. No, continued on this path about the sign. We just need to know is it legal or is it not? Is is there a way um if you don't mind, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to get to the legality of this. Is there a way to indicate on the sign that parking for the grocery can be at both places? In other words, uh you might have an arrow directing people to the main parking lot, which is right next to the building where most people would go anyways. Uh, but some other arrow that it could indicate. I I guess what legally I think you could have you pretty sure you could have a sign in your leased area saying park here, right? Do you know what I'm saying? Or free parking or whatever you want to say. Okay. Um, what you want to do is

you want to direct the traffic and say go down this alley, you'll get to the bargain grocery parking lot. Right. That's my primary objective. That's your primary objective for the front door with that parking if it's open. If not, yes, feel free to park. What you said, what you said here is that this could be an overflow parking lot. I know it is. That's how we designed it with tenant for their use. So, I think I think if your signage sort of makes that clear somehow or another, I would my objections my legal objection to the sign would uh dissipate. Okay. So, are you are you saying that it's legal on that piece of property? If if the sign I'm saying if the sign indicates that the people could park right there, but that's not where they're going to they're not going to park right there. They're going to park down the street. That's just a direction. I'm indicating that it could if they could indicate that you could park in either location, I would uh we can mark it. I mean, yeah, you can't you can't park where the sign's going to be. But you can't park where the sign is. No, not on not on the sidewalk, but that lot that's right next to it is overflow parking for the grocery store. That's what they're saying. How do you control or police who parks in that oversigned grocery store park that your arrow on the sign is taking you to? We have property management teams down here to handle our I'm on site every day. If we see a car that seems suspicious, we'll check it out. But most of the time, if we see him walking to the grocery store, we're actually trying to get the employees of the grocery store to park in the overflow lot to free up parking as needed for for the tenants. That's uh that's what we do. Do you think we should vote on each sign

separately? Yes, you can. I mean, that's up to you. Is there anybody out there that has any questions they'd like to raise or public? No, you come up and use the mic. Never seen these guys here before. I shop at the bargain grocery. Name, address, name? Eduardo Duny, 33256 Avenue. And if you're coming down River Street and there's no there's about five spots you can access along River Street. Now, if I go past that and there's no parking, it's difficult to come up then whatever the name of that street is and make a right through the loading dock because the street narrows down with a couple of pillars. Now, I have a Dodge pickup truck and it's possible to get through, but it it's tight. So I hesitate to go through there. If I'm coming down who's only because I know it do I make the right into the alley. If someone is new to the neighborhood and to the grosser, they're never going to find that out. And also if they if there's no parking along River Street, there's two spots, a handicap spot and I think another spot and that's it. I'm going to keep on going home. I'm going to keep going down river. So that's that's the public. Thank you. Guess we should ask too. Is there anybody online? Yeah. Um

[Music] No one. Nobody. Should we call for a vote, you guys? Well, should we make a motion to call for a vote on each sign separately? Yes. Okay. I'll be back. I think we should do the super first. Okay. Okay. Uh, excuse me. She want to do the secret first. Oh, okay. All right. Uh, Mr. chairperson. Uh with regards to PLZBA 2025, uh as supported by the staff reports and the short uh environmental assessment form as amended and submitted by the applicant, uh I ask that the board find this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action uh with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. I'll second that. So, should we I'll make a motion to vote on each sign separately. Yes. Okay. Um I think we need to vote on motion. Vote on the secret first. Vote on the secret first. Sorry. Vote on secret. I I I Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, you've declared you had made a negative declaration for seeker. Okay. Now, I'd like to make a motion to vote on each sign separately. I'll second that motion. So, go for the uh store sign first. Is that all right? Well, first of all, you have to take a vote. We got to vote on

that. Vote on the All in favor? All in favor? I have the motion. I I I I I Okay, I think you ought to give the applicant an opportunity to withdraw the the off- premises sign. Um I suggested a possible uh redesign which you might I don't know if you would entertain it or not, but I just given the opportunity. Yes. I'm asking if there's any objection on the first is going to be the Rick, if I may. So this arrow does point in the direction of both the overflow lot which is right behind this pier as the as also the main lot which we're talking about for the access. I don't know if that is aminable for the board. I think to make it in the interest of not adding more signage too because that's also what we're trying to avoid is having it be a signfest. I I think there needs to be some indicica. Look, I'm willing to concede that you have a right to put a sign on a parking lot that you own or lease, right? And tell people to park there. If you want to add an arrow that says bargain grocery this way, I'm not g I mean I think the board could probably well they could entertain that anyways. Uh but that sign doesn't indicate to me that you can park next in the in the lot next to the sign. But why is that? You're pointing right at the spaces that are in the overflow lot behind this pier. You can't see it from

this rendering. It only indicates the bargain grocery, but it's both lots. So it's offsite. But how else would you like us to argue about the finance? No, no, I'm just asking how I'm asking for some direction. How else would you want us to indicate that the overflow is also for Baron Grocery, not just for people that happen to be driving by on street? I haven't really thought about the answer yet. I mean, but I think, you know, you have a creative team there that could possibly come up with some indication that uh you you would enter allow people to park in either location. I mean, even that verbiage, you know, overflow parking lot for or bargain bargain grocery overflow something like that. And then but on this same format, can we agree that this is the template everybody likes in terms of size? It's It's smaller and less distracting. I'm okay with the size. Yeah, but I But it's Give me the dimensions of the size. It's 3x5. 3x5. Yes, you can fit those. And 30 inches off the ground for the posts. No, I think it can fit. I'm just thinking it does the job already the way it's designed. Well, if one says overflow and the other says, you know, store parking and, you know, I Well, we're not doing two signs. Well, right. It's one sign. And that's what I'm trying to achieve here is just make it the one sign. I'm just thinking out loud. If you had one arrow that almost pointed straight down and said overflow parking, another arrow said store parking or I I don't know. I mean, I I'm actually trying to help you here. Okay. So, no, I appreciate So, don't don't I'm not criticizing at all. I appreciate what I'm saying is I think you have a right to put a sign on your parking lot. I don't that would not be off premises. If you want to indicate somehow that there's something down the street people might be interested. I

don't know if the board might entertain that. In this case, second sign though you're suggesting. No, no second sign whatsoever. Just another more verbiage. Just another word I think right second or something or do I can but it it's ultimately it's your call. Okay. I'm just trying to Are we ready to vote? Yeah. And I think uh with that um separation asking for a copy of the lease as you suggested if we're going to separate that out asking Well, I think Rick said it's okay. Yeah. I Rick's trying to find them a solution to their lease. Oh, okay. Am I understanding that correctly? A solution to that's con relatively consistent with the legal requirements here. Okay. without uh I understand what they're trying to accomplish. The letter of the law seems to bar them from having a sign that a freestanding sign in another location that might direct people to their business up the street, but so I I think there's a creative way you can kind of do that. Okay. Would adding the word overflow and another arrow uh on the appropriate might be perfect. I don't know. I'm not the sign maker. We're fine doing that. We just wish we could do it here and not have to wait another month because we're trying to put the sign up. So, I mean, could you conditionally approve it with that anecdote at the bottom to say you're required to show that it's also overflow for the Honestly, I just you know, [Music] yeah, I I think it's really on you to come back with a sign that the board can approve. Okay. All right. I'm sorry. Nothing to

I don't know that you have five vote or three votes now yet anyway. So could I ask we just bring this to a vote? Bring the We'll bring the first freestanding sign. Well, no. Well, we got two sides. We've got the one that's attached to the building on the store and we've got the I'm sorry. I didn't mean to inter Well, so we could table this one or we could or we can vote on it. We can vote on it. I'll take my chances. No, we don't determine to take. Okay. They determine You say take a chance. You take a chance. Do Do you want us to vote on both? Do you want us to vote on both? Vote on both, please. Yeah. All right, that's fine. Thank you. I I'm going to make a motion to vote on the sign that's long and skinny and attached to the building, which uh I believe does not deteriorate the conditions in the neighborhood and will be of good standing. Is that enough said, Rick? Um I think you have to meet all five tests or four tests. No, no, that's the area that I I only have to satisfy one, don't I? Oh, that's right. Right. It's area. So, I just have to You only have to satisfy one, which I believe I just did. Right. You said that that it would create an undesirable change to the neighborhood. That's fine. Need you a second. I would second that motion. Um I vote to approve. Yes. Approve. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Five approvals for the for the one sign for the sore sign. Correct. So, we'll bring the um freestanding sign up now. Okay.

So, yeah. Okay. Okay. I vote um I know I motion to vote on the freestanding offremise sign. Um, I don't actually know which one of these to pick. Um, I I personally think it's self-created, so I don't really That's That's my opinion. Can I just say that? I don't know what I'm supposed to say here. Um, maybe someone else ought to make the motion. I think somebody else better make the motion. Someone wants to [Music] still area variance. Yeah. Yeah. So, so they only have two. I'm going to make a motion. I move that the board approve the variance uh with the condition that if they no longer lease the building or they lose the lease that lot of the land they have to remove the sign based on the following fact that it does not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood. Is there do I have a second? You do second K. Um, I would like the vote to start on that end. I vote no. No. No. Yes. No. Four nos and one yes. I guess we'll redesign. There you go. It's worth a shot. Thank you.

down. Can we call the next one? I'm not criticizing. [Music] Take them take them in order. The next one up is the central rock. Okay. Wait for him to get knocked for the same with the same proposal. The same general. So I'll hang out. Oh that bridge shouldn't have a guy take a break. So give us a couple. Thank [Music] you. Let me tell Exactly. Sorry everyone. You're good. All right. So the next um business is PLZBA 2025

00235 547 River Street. Approach. Where is the Good evening. Uh my name is Jamie Coloro. Uh representing Vital Sign and Graphics and my customer Central Rock Gym. Uh my father was in my absence last week or last month. Sorry. Yeah. Before that. Um yeah, we're proposing, as you guys know, we're proposing um an exterior stairwell sign. Uh they are front lit channel letters. They're made out of aluminum. They have white LED lights in them with translucent vinyl film on the front. Um, the size we think is adequate for viewing from Alternate 7 coming down towards Wix Street. It allows people to find the business. Um, they're a new business in the area. Um, beautiful rock climbing gym inside. I've seen it. Um, I think it has a lot of potential to bring a lot of new people into the area. Um, the second sign is on an exterior canopy that's facing west towards the Hudson. Um that is also a set of channel letters. Um as you see there um front lit and yeah that's it. Um how how far off the uh where's that? I mean I was there so I saw it but how far off the ground is that the the one by the front door? I think we're uh 10 feet. So, can I see that? Can I have a boat on the Hudson? Probably not because the shoreline is all trees there until the city does the bike trail. It's pretty over forested. It's It's covered from the Hudson. You can't see it from the river right now. All right. Good. Okay. That one we can, right? This one from the river. It'd be pretty hard. This is

behind the bridge from Point South. I think you have a very hard time seeing it from the river itself. This is intended to see be seen from the highway and like Jamie said, this is a new tenant coming to the area from out of state. They're a very good operator. I think Troy is going to be uh very happy to see them get going and operate this summer with the draw they have. They've already gotten a membership base upward of 350 before their start of business, which is great for them. Um, and it's a great sport to do inside in a a region where we kind of need that for a lot of our time of the year. Um, what we're trying to do is make it so that they have good exposure to the general market, not just for Troy, but to bring people to Troy from the rest of the greater capital district because rock gyms apparently are a very uh territorial um endeavor in a market this size of the Troy connected to the Albany MSA. You can really only justify one Olympic caliber facility like this. And that's why Central Rock Gym was very excited to join us in the rehab of the Flanigan building and add their addition just to the south of it between the bridge and the side of the factory building. Um so what we're trying to do similar to Baron Grocery is give them a good presence in the market, show people where they are because again it's a difficult site to find their parking. They are another uh DOT lot lee or not ly but their lease with us allows them to park under the bridge which is right next to the front entrance. Angelia if you can pan down you can might be able to see a little bit. Oh, it got cut off. Um actually go back down. The underpass here is the uh main parking area for their tenency which is why their front door is oriented towards the river, not towards River Street. it's easier for their parking access to come to this

point. So the sign that says Central Rock Rock Gym Gym is more on the back side of the building where it would face the parking not on the river side parking. No, it is on No, it's facing the river. So this looks at the Hudson through the trees. So you can't see it from the from the uh you can't see it from river itself. Correct. Correct. not from River Street. You would see the other sign from some points on River Street. If you're far enough away behind the bridge, you could see it. Or if you're under the bridge looking north on River Street. Is the bigger sign lit? Like they're both lit. So, is there any like concern with like light for like people that live around there? Like is there any apartments close by that we can see? There's none south keeping me up if I was sleeping. No, the it's facing our hotel which is on the other side of the bridge and our storage property which is on the opposite side of River Street but south of the bridge overpass. So there's no residential there. And then behind that if you think about it is actually this building which is just office. So there's no residences are going to be blinded by would it would it pres? No, because the hotel rooms actually face east and west where the edge of the building that faces this sign is actually the north entrance with the stair tower and the lobby entrance. Yes. Dimensions on that sign. That's your thing. They're big. So the uh the canopy that one the can canopy exterior is 261 in wide um by 30 in tall. the No, the uh the letters themselves, the actual letters that fit in the canopy. The canopy is a slightly larger. The canopy is 364 inches wide. The whole canopy. Yeah, correct. Right. So, the letters

fit within the canopy. Yeah. How high are the letters? They're 30 inches tall. 30 inches. So, they're tall. So, I personally I mean I was there today, so I think the parking is super easy to find. Um, I agree that I can't see it from the river. I don't have a problem. I I don't know about the lighting part, but I don't have a problem with the signage on the front of the building. I am absolutely opposed to the signage on the tall part that I see from 787. I think it sets a precedent of lighted signs in coming into our city looking like I just that's not what I want for our city. But this sign I like. We both do separate for the point about the signs facing the highway. You kind of have that already with storage building on the opposite side of the highway overpass with a sign that basically does the same thing as the one on the stair tower. And our tenant asked us if he could put it on the stair tower just so like I said before, they're coming to the area from out of state. They're trying to get their customers to know where it is and to have good market presence. That was the best position on the building to place it in their opinion and and we share that with them as their landlord. We wanted to see them grow and be successful and be another positive element to add to the fabric of Troy and especially in North Central which is the most depressed census tract in the whole Capital District. We're trying to reinforce it with some good growth. This is how you have to do it to have good marketing and show the customer this is how to access the new amenity that we're bringing to this neighborhood and the city overall. That other sign you're referring to from that other business. Is that uh lighting? It's back lit. It actually just changed and they must have come through zoning

to do that probably five years ago for when it was life storage. It's since rebranded to extra space in the same square foot allowance of signage for the building. There's actually one facing the bridge on the north side and there's one facing south on River Street on the they call it the 1911 building. It's the old Fitzgerald Brothers bottling complex that's across the street and up one block from where we are right now. Quick question. So is that sign we're talking about it's back lit, right? It's halo lit. It's back lit and it's it's it's lime green now because that's the branding of the storage operator extra space. This is just white and it I don't think it's a it's not a tasteless graphic. It's just neutral and it's a white um stair tower behind it or it's a cream color just off white. I don't I don't care for the lighting. Like right next to it is rent this apartment which is like a big banner like that I don't even have a problem with. But that's a temporary banner too. that's not going to stay. I have a problem with it. I just don't I don't think we need more lights. I think I I think people who most people who are going to use a Rock Wall gym are going to go on their ways or their GPS or whatever they're going to do. They're going to pull right in the parking lot. They're going to find it. They're not going to be driving by. And there there's there's too much other good marketing out there. Instagram and all that stuff. The people that are using this aren't they don't they don't need a sign on a building by 787. I respectfully disagree. That's okay. That's fine. Um, that's just my opinion. Would it change your opinion if it was halo lit? Are you familiar with that? I don't want anything lit. No, it's a it's a little more subtle than the faces actually being lit. Yeah. I just I don't want to come from Laam down into Troy and see more commercial lit stuff right as I'm entering Troy. I think it's on the highway overpass that you see at the most. Not down at

street level, which is what we're trying to avoid is we don't even have a street level sign for the building facing River Street. Street. I know. It's meant to pull people to the riverfront so that when the trail does go through, it's an active node along that new path that we're all excited to see coming forward and make it so that there's a lot of activity along that path. That was part of our whole uh planning submission with the city and also with uh the state who helped us with some fundraising was we're trying to create nodes of interest along the future bike path on the river shore. This signage helps to accomplish that. But the signage on the stair tower helps to find the motorist that's coming in and locate them to the property. And it's part of their leased area. They actually use that stair tower to access their roof to do maintenance on their rooftop units that are above their addition. Instead of us putting a ship's ladder through the back of the rock wall structure and making it a hazard for people to climb through, we just made a bridge across from the existing stair tower that John Hley did about 30 years ago and just use it for their suite. Is there any is there any public opinion out there on this folks? No. How about online? [Music] No one. No one online. Okay. I'd like to make a re recommendation if you guys would. I'd like to um both split this in two also for the front and then also for the tower.

I second the motion. Okay. All right. Was that So, let's Yep. That's great. Let's go and um I vote to approve that motion. Okay. And then I second your roll. Okay. Let's go and um Which one are we first? We're gonna vote on the street sign first. How's that sound? Is that all right? Could you clarify? You mean the canopy sign? He means the canopy sign. Can we vote to approve the motion that we just did? Can we vote? I vote to approve. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. We'll do the secret now then. Ready? Yeah. Okay. Uh Mr. chairperson uh with regards to PLZBA 2025-000023 as supported by the staff reports and the short uh environmental assessment form submitted by the applicant. I ask that the board find this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. Second. I second. All in favor? All in favor? I I I Okay. So, can we vote on the on the uh street sign now? So, when you say the street sign, you mean the canopy sign? Canopy sign. Correct. Oh, the canopy sign. Oh. Oh, we got to do the motion first. Yes. Yeah, that's what you need. Oh. Um I move that the board uh approve the variance um the area variance for the um street sign. Um that uh you don't have such

sign will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or be a detriment to nearby properties. And um that's all you need. That's all you need. That's good. I'll I'll second that motion. Okay. All right. So, [Music] uh I vote to approve. I vote to approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Thank you. That's five approvals. Five yeses. Now, we'll go for the tower side. Yeah. I I don't know if the applicant wants to I'll take my chances. May as well. Okay. I move that the board approve the variance for the guess is guess what we're going to call the tower sign. the sign on the stairwell facing alternate route seven because it does not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or or nearby properties. Need a second. Do I have a second? Yes. Take a vote. Uh, I vote no. I vote yes. No, no, no. Okay, so that's four nos and one yes. Thank you. All right, turn the page. All right, this guy's gone. Yes. Okay, the next uh we had one that was cancelled. So, we're going to go down to

uh PLZBA 2025 0034 787th Avenue. Want to come up? Are we are we still in old business? No, this is new business. New business. [Music] Good evening to the panel. My name is Clifton Davis. I'm the property owner of 78 and 7th Hav Troy, New York, Lancenberg. Um I submit an application for um possible installation of a 6 ft fence to my property for additional security. I'm a father of three kids, two girl and a boy. Couple questions, please. I did a drive by. You're on the corner of 101st and 7th Avenue, correct? Yes. You have the two family house on that corner. Yes. I will say that it is very wellmaintained. Please. Thank you. You deserve a lot of credit. It's impeccable. Thank you. It looks good. Now, tell us in your own words what you want to do with this six-foot vinyl fence versus the old metal fence. Metal fence that's there. Yes. Um, so for my kids, uh, I used to live in a rental from I've been here. I've been here 15 years and I used to live in rent houses and stuff which no additional spaces for my kids them to get outside and enjoy outside, play around and move around which um you know in this time and stuff like that not getting outside exposure moving around and stuff like that increase obesity and stuff like that I would like for my kids them to able to enjoy the outdoors but at the same time I don't want them to be out there and like being on high sore to people first thing I'm

thinking about their security being outside sometimes you're inside you're busy you're not able to pay attention and to them and stuff like that with a 6 ft fence securing the property giving them that peace of mind, giving me that peace of mind, that level of privacy and that extra level of security for them to be outside moving around and able to enjoy the outside and stuff like that. I would greatly appreciate. I have two daughters. They would like to be outside. I have a small pool. They would like to be outside sometimes in the pool the summer at and stuff like that. I don't want them to be a high sore onto the neighbors or people passing by because I don't have that privacy. And then I don't want them to be outside exposing and for predator highs which we're living in a society we don't know who is who or or what people is thinking and stuff like that. So that's why I requested the permission to install a sixt fencing. When I face your house and I look at the front door. Yes. Are you talking about running the fence across the back up on the 101st Street side and then over to where the stairs to the door come? No. Well, I'm looking to do from the corner where the exist I'm not changing anything where the existing fence is. I'm just replacing the fencing as it is for more security and privacy. So, I'm not Go ahead. Not incl. No. So, where the existing fence is from the front of Almer to the corner goes right around to the back of the property and the back street and stuff. That's that's what I'm looking to do. Okay. What is exactly there? I'm good. Thank you. I went by also and your house is impeccable. Thank you so much. Just to um um reiterate what Steve said. So, and I I perfectly understand why you want a

six foot fence myself. So, um Me too. Yeah, I guess I'm ready to make a motion. I let you make a motion if any unless there's somebody. Is there anybody out there that has any Okay, anybody online? I had one more question. So, you said it's a two family house. Do you have a tenant that lives in one of those? Well, we occupied. Yes, we had somebody living upstairs. Are they okay with the fence? Yes, they do because they also have a dog that sometimes they be out in the in the premises and stuff like that having the dog running around and stuff like that. So, they do enjoy the premises as well. All right. I'd like to make a motion that we approve uh TLZBA 20250034. I believe that it will not have an adverse effect or impact on the physical environmental conditions of the neighborhood or district. type two. Just before you do that, just we make a secret. Oh, sorry. No worries. It's a type um type two. Mr. Chairperson, in regards to PLZBA 2025-000034 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be a seeker type two action with sufficient information available upon which to state that no determination is necessary or required. A second. I second. Okay. Uh vote to approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. That was for her. But hang on. We're coming back to you. The environmental perspective. Oh, okay. Thank you. I'm sorry. Okay. So, I vote. I mean, I make a motion to uh allow his variance for his sixoot fence. I don't believe it will make any difference in the

neighborhood. I second. I vote to approve. Approve. Absolutely. Approve. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Approve. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. Thank you. 54, right? Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it a lot. Yes. Five for you. Five. Five. All right. All right. National grid. Okay. This one. PLB our PLZBA 2025 0031 249 River Street um National Grid [Music] that's all [Music] Good evening um members of the board. My name is Jessica Lease. I'm senior counsel uh with National Grids New York Sighting Group with offices at two Hansen Place in Brooklyn, New York. Um with me this evening, I also have Nick Schwarz with our engineering firm CHA and Evan Galatelli um from our architecture firm uh SRRA. Uh so we're here this evening requesting an uh area variance of Troy zoning code section 28545D2 in order to construct a new uh approximately 1,400 square foot energy center building with an insufficient riverview corridor. Uh so the proposed energy center building is located at 249 River Street uh within the city's downtown mixed use and downtown 2 development intensity zone. The property

is owned by the city of Troy. Uh and the intention is for the property to be leased to Troy uh local development corporation and then sub leased to national grid. Um the proposed energy center building will serve as an accessory building to our proposed Troy Utility Thermal Energy Network or U10 project. Um so to provide you with a brief overview of the U10 project this is an initiative under New York state's utility thermal energy network and jobs act uh whereby new thermal energy technology would transfer energy from a thermal source into a distribution loop uh where individual buildings are connected via highly efficient water sourced heat pumps. The proposed thermal source for the Troy U10 project is a geothermal bore field within the city. Um the generation equipment is going to be installed and operate and maintained by Troy LDC and National Grid will own uh install and operate and maintain the distribution piping. Um and the proposed energy center building is going to house equipment which would facilitate the continuous circulation of water from the geothermal borefield to the heat pumps. So, we're here this evening um requesting relief before this board uh as we appeared before the planning board in April for preliminary review and were directed uh for a variance of code section 28545 uh subsection D2 uh which provides that all developments within 200 ft of the mean high watermark of the Hudson River or seaw wall or development to be located on land between the riverbank and nearest public street paralleling the river uh shall There shall be an opening of at least 30 ft between buildings to provide unobstructed view corridors to the river. So we're proposing no setback to the north the side property line that

abuts 251 river street. Uh and as such we're seeking a variance. So as a public utility um there is case law that national grid is in or generally public utilities are entitled to a more lenient standard of review. Uh however, even pursuant to the area standard uh area var standards that are delineated in general city law section 81-B subsection 4 um the applicable applicable facts will demonstrate that the benefit to national grid by granting the variance uh will outweigh any potential detriment to the health, safety and welfare of the community. Um so regarding the first criteria, the requested variance would not cause an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood. Um, so the I'm g actually give you some handouts. [Music] So, um the subject zoning code provision uh that we're seeking a variance was recently adopted in 2023 when the code um the zoning code was updated. Um, but you have to consider that we're constructing our building in a historic district where much of the architecture was developed prior to the enactment of this code provision. Um, so if you look at the character of the existing district, you'll find that our proposed alignment of the building is more consistent with the neighborhood. Um, so in front of you the two exhibits. Uh, so I'm showing you the aerial view of River Street. Um, and you can see a few prop uh a few property few areas actually comply with the 30-foot uh viewshed

protection uh standard. So to the north there's um one provided Riverview corridor. Uh it's between 271 and 275 River Street um where there previously was a building that was demolished. Um so as such there's a corridor there. Um otherwise there's no other Riverview corridors in the stretch of buildings to the north. Um to the south we're providing the required 30 ft on the city's parcels. Um the city the the city parcel we're developing on which is parcel 101.53-1-1. Um there's another city parcel that's vacant. And then there's a stretch of buildings that extend as far south as State Street without any Riverview corridors. And then south of State Street, there is a parking garage. Um though it does have views through to the river, they are obstructed, so not in compliance with the code. Um and then again, another stretch of buildings without any Riverview corridors extending to Congress Street. So as such, our proposed variance would be in line with the other developments along River Street and would not create an undesirable change in the historical character of the neighborhood. Um, regarding the second area variance criteria, National Grid does not have an alternative other than the requested variance. Um, so while this section that we're seeking a variance of, provides that there must be 30 ft between buildings, section 28540, which is the bulk requirements of the D2 um development intensity zone. It provides that uh there the setbacks of buildings must be no greater than 10 feet from the side property line. Um so it's legally impossible to comply with both sections of these codes since one is requiring 30 feet between buildings and one is requiring um a maximum of a 10-ft setback. Um so as such we're proposing to comply with the bulk requirements and provide a zero foot setback for the

northern side property line. Um. Mhm. And then we're also complying within the 10 ft on the southern side property line. Um from the least lot line. As for the third criteria, whether the requested area variance is substantial. Um this board should not consider the substantiality of the variance in degree alone. Uh especially in light of the contradicting zoning sections. um and rather New York state case laws provided that the board should consider the balancing test outlined in general city law and consider whether the application as a whole provides a benefit to the applicant more than it impacts the health, safety and welfare of the community. Um so the last um two variants area variance criteria uh there's no evidence presented here that the proposed variance would have an adverse impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood. Uh so this project, the energy center building, was actually included in a full environmental assessment form uh for Troy Local Development Corporation's proposed clean thermal energy network project or C10 project. Uh and the C10 project was ultimately determined to not have a significant adverse environmental impact pursuant to the state environmental quality review act or SECRA. Um so this the building itself was included in that um secret determination. But if you consider this building alone and the the variance that we're requesting, um it would be a type two action um it is a commercial structure less than 4 thou uh 4,000 square feet of gross floor area and the relief requested is for an area variance of an indivual individual setback requirement. So it would be presumed pursuant to secret to not have an adverse impact environmental impact. And then last uh whether the requested area of variance is self-created. So

given the legal impossibility of compliance with the two um differing sections of the code 28545D2 and 28540 um national grids support that the requested variance is not self-created. Uh and furthermore any self-creation should not preclude this board from granting the area variance pursuant to um New York State city law, general city law. Um so accordingly we would um put forth that the benefit here of granting the area variance would outweigh any potential impact to the community and we respectfully request that this board approve the variance of section 28545D2. Yes. Questions? I went down to the site. I walked it. You mention a lack of corridors between buildings on River Street. Weren't those buildings preexisting prior to that 30foot corridor view accessibility? You're implying that they're all not in compliance. Therefore, it's okay for you to do what they did. But what they did was years ago before it even became an issue. Am I correct in that assumption? No, you you are correct that they're pre-existing. Sorry. Sorry. You are correct that they're their pre-existing structures. My point for that was that the building that we're proposing fits in the character of the neighborhood more so. Yeah. But the implication was all of those other buildings were not in compliance. Therefore, it's okay for you not to be. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I was just impression. I was trying to convey that it's more in character with the out the layout of the

neighborhood as is. Now the second question is that's a very small plot of land. I don't know what the following term means and I'm sure you're going to explain it. Energy center building. Yes. I have no idea what that means. So, we do have our design team here that could explain a little bit more, but basically simple English. Okay. It's housing equipment. There's um tanks inside um basically equipment that's going to facilitate um and regulate the energy. Uh but if somebody wants to step up and talk a little bit more since I'm not explain what geothermal is. So geothermal is when you drill a well down into the ground and you use that well as a stabilizing feature uh over the year. In the summertime, you know, it it it takes uh heat out of water to allow it to cool. And in the winter time, it allows heat to get into the loop that you have. So basically you have a loop that goes down into the well comes out. Is the loop piping? It is is a continuous piped loop. Yes. It's a continuous system. Where's where is it going to? So it comes from the well to a pump facility which that's what the energy center is called. It's basically a set of pumps and tanks that pull the water from pull the the the liquid from in the pipe system through the pipe system and then distribute it out through a distribution system which is pipes to a um uh a heating unit, right? And then it

comes back and it's a continuous loop. So it loops from one to the other to the other and then goes back into the well and gets pulled out again. So that's that's what geothermal is. It allows um offputting of heat and increasing uh the coolness uh during summer periods of time. Does that make sense to people? Who who is this servicing? Yeah. Who's Yeah. Who who is this going to? So, this is servicing a pilot project that is within the downtown corridor based from right along River Street uh in the Monument Square area and then comes back comes back down through um jeez, it goes south on third to um State State Street, I think. Yes. Uh, and then down State Street it's going to serve as a music hall. I don't think it goes all the way to Congress and then it goes back on second I think towards uh River Street. Uh it's it's a very the project is really just beginning. Uh it's something that the council I believe has approved uh in at least in its broadest outlines. It would involve these geothermal wells which will be closer to the river. the the liquid will be in pipes. It'll go down into the earth. It'll pick up the earth's temperature. In in summer that will be cooling and in winter that will be a jump start on heating a building and it'll so it'll be it'll come up from the ground. It'll be pumped into the network, the loop that I just talked about and then the buildings along the loop. How they're going to access this, I don't know yet, but uh I imagine I

imagine bigger brains than mine have a plan. So all of this piping that you're alluding to is not in fact in place today. No, absolutely not. So that's the WS are not even joking. I'm just making sure I understand you're in the theoretical design phase, not we are nearly through the design phase. Um, when I was down there standing in front of that small plot of land, I looked through the fence and I saw National Grid trucks parked on that large dirt unfinished parking [Music] area, which you can see in that photo. Who owns that piece of land? The city owns that piece of land, the city of Troy. Why wouldn't you do what you want to do on that piece of land versus that small plot on the picture? So the the least area has been determined by the efficiency of the pumps and where the pumps need to be located through the design of the system. Also through the desire of the city to use as little leased area as possible for the project. So, is this more like a maintenance operational center room or are there drilling pipes going down through the ground on that site? No, there's no

pipes that are There'll be pipes that are coming up into the site. Yeah. That are underground, but there are no no other piping equipment in there. Think of this as a mechanical room in a in a commercial building. That's what I'm trying to That's exactly what it is. Give you, you know, it's exactly that. It's So, are you planning to abut that building? Yeah. It has a zero. That's what they're asking for. So, in this location, it's a zero lot. So, it's it's buted up right adjacent to the adjacent building. So that orange building, is that your proposed picture? Yes, that is the proposed design and you'll abut that building. Yes. So there'll be no alleyway, no view of the river. Not in that location. In that location. What's the width of that building? 30 feet. The width is 30 feet. Yes, ma'am. 30 feet across the front from tent. Yes, along the front facade. Uh Evan Galatelli, Cyber Regosu Architects. Thank you for having us. So, this is like a cool cooling and heating substation for whatever for for the loop that that we've discussed. Um I know this isn't on mute, but I mean, and Troy wants to put something like that like right in the heart of our beautiful square. There is there is nothing there. Now I realize there's nothing there. We have had two meetings with the historical review committee. They've um we've adjusted the design based on their comments. They are happy. They were happy with the design from the start that it fits in with the historical

nature. I do like the facade. I mean, I'm just I'm shocked that downtown right at Monument Square, they're putting a substation, which is not So, it's a nobody's going to use it or enjoy it. So, so it's a super efficient way to heat and cool a building. I understand. I understand. So, so it's an advantage for someone that wants to go down at another lot to say, "Okay, we have this really cool new and it's not really new tech. It's been around for a long long time, but it's supericial building anywhere. That's my point. So, I don't think they can though because it when so I just know a little bit about geothermal lines. I actually installed one a buddy's house. So, it has to be there's a specific location for it to work and I think that's what he they were saying that they're based on where they want the loop to run and how they want the loop to run. That's the there's this is where it needs to be. No, it could be on the lot below. No, it can't because of the way the the pipe the width the way that they have to drill to get to the water line in there. It can't be below it's too high. That's why it has to be up on that pier. Unless unless I'm incorrect. There have been discussions with the city's administration about the the chosen location on on the lot. Um and it is a low inensity use which I mean it's not going to cause more traffic in the area. It basically self-maintains. It gets maintain uh there's m two maintenance um two two individuals that attend to it for four hours a week. So it is a low inensity use. Um and again we we've been for this pilot program been in various discussions with the city's administration. What's next door? So that's what the concern is. These pumps are kind of noisy. They're not super quiet, are they? The I Well, there's a bar right there and then it goes to the art center and then that makes my understanding is the rooftop

equipment would be the source of noise for a typical type building for Hback. Um and there are um noise attenuating um installations. There's no apartments right next are there. Well, there's least buildings. Yeah. So, they're probably apartments. It's a law firm. It's a law firm. I know where you are now. It's fivestory building. It's commercial rental space. It has an elevator. The the rooftop units will have sound dampeners around it. Um if you look at the top story there of the top layer of windows, it's actually exposed to above. It's a very tall parapit uh with two wides of walls. So to further enhance the suppression of sound. So we are working with the rooftop manufacturer to control that sound. But not only through the system of the rooftop manufacturer, but through the design of the very tall parapit, we're also achieving that uh sound suppression. The pumps are inside the building, right? So you're not worried about ambient noise getting to the neighbor. Like if I worked in that building next door, I wouldn't wear all day, you know. Geothermal is typically known for being a very quiet system. What about safety? I mean, you're in the heart of the city. Are there any safety concerns? Have they been addressed regarding perhaps visibility or privacy into the space? No. Safety of the operation in inside the building. Like if one of the lines blows, you're going to have a flood. One of the lines blows, it's a problem. You're you're going to have a flood. There's not water in there. So, we've designed the system to be safe, efficient. Um, you know, there are containment areas within the existing uh building. the proposed building for uh for catchment uh if something happens.

Has National Grid done this anywhere else like in other cities? Like is this the first one of its kind? The this is all simultaneously being done. There's four pilot projects going on throughout the state. Um one other one is in Syracuse. Um two other in downstate New York. Um it's pursuant to a public service commission. Um the there's funding. So there's a there's a whole scheme but they've been done basically they're all being done at the same simultaneous time history to go back to not with natural grid anywhere else. So have they used this um now that you know the the sorry the pilot program is there's other um utilities also applying but it's they're all basically in the same phase because of how the um regulations rule came out. I think there's one somewhere in New England. Yeah. what is the status of those other locations, you know, with regards to zoning issues or, you know, presentations. Um, so as far as I'm more involved with the the Syracuse one, we're working right now. Um, we had to do a relocation there. We ended up doing um because we for for issues we couldn't obtain the property. So, um, they're a little bit behind, but we're going through planning board review for that building. I think we're going to need a variance as well for our height. Um but yeah, so the relocation was due to ownership issues. Uh we we the the property owner we were working with but um so my question is um with this variance that you're requesting two two questions. Um if we denied it, you would just move it over 30 feet, right? still be there. Well, we'd have to renegotiate the the the the square footage that's being proposed in the lease with the city. And

and then the second question is um how much corridor does that leave me with? Because I know you're saying you're only 30 ft wide, which is okay. Um but I can't get a feel of how much corridor that leaves me. I mean, I know what the space looks like. I go to the farmers market, but does anybody have a feel for That gives me x much more approximately. Yeah, approximately more than 300 feet. Uh I don't have service but I could about You're saying about 300 feet? More. He was saying approximately more than 300 feet. It is quite a wide um the city. I know it is. Yeah. I'm just trying to see. Yeah. So, if you look on the diagrams I provided, the um city's land runs until the next building um right to the south. Stop. That's the area you're talking about. Yes. Actually, are those is that as wide as it is where the green starts? Is that the end of the building from the red brick to where the green starts is about the property? Is that about 30 ft? Plus plus. So those cattle things are or are those whatever are are about 10 feet. I mean we do have to keep in mind too that there is a there needs to be a variance here either way because of how the city's code is designed, right? We either have to have a variance of this or a variance of the the set maximum permitted setback from the property line which is 10 ft. The 10 ft or the 30t. So you you can't comply with both. What was that? How difficult would it be to find a different location and let the city beautify that area so you'd have river view? I mean, this has been months of I understand that was not my question. We had we had looked into other locations.

This was ultimately determined to be the most suitable. Um I I'm not in day in and day out involved in those conversations with the administration but um there it was extensive amount and we had other locations targeted and ultimately was worked with the administration that this was the best. So the pipes are going to go from the building on there. There's the well, right? There's and it's going to go to the Hudson River. So, the well the wells are in essentially they're going to be in the parking lot that's uh in River from Park right now. But you're not going to see them. They're going to be underground. They're going to I think they're going to drill about 200 of them. They're going to be underground. But they're not that the parking the area will be restored to park once the wells are installed. That that's how I understand the plan to to answer your question sir. Yes sir. I'm sorry I I didn't know what I had. I had no question. So the the answer to the question is you will not see the wells, well heads or any of pertinances above ground. So it's all underground and all the piping's underground. So there's what you'll see at the end is you know uh probably graded area maybe paved area and eventually when uh the funds become available the riverfront park expansion in that location. How will you access the wells for maintenance purposes? You that's you don't have a pump in the well. It's just you don't the pumps are in this building and in another building. So you're just drawing water from the you're just

pulling the not the water but the pipe solution right out of it. But if there's any sort of compromise in the walls of the well, you'll have to dig. They're all they're all piped and they're all lined. So they're all cased with casing to a point where they hit bedrock and then it's bedrock. So they're sleeved and and deep enough. They are sleeved and deep enough. Okay. If you're not drawing water from the well in the proverbial sense of the word, what are you drawing from the well? You're you're drawing and ex you're excreting heat and you're taking coolness from the water that's in the well through the piped solution. So you've got a What is the pipe solution? It's like a glycol. What is glycol? Antifreeze. Anifreeze. And that's a toxin, is it not? So, but you're running it all. It's contained. It's contained and I'm sure it's environmentally safe like I have environmentally safe pool but it basically goes down the water cools it or warms it and then it runs through and it cools or warms the building. So then you don't your temperature cooling and heating instead of having to go from 80 or 90 degrees today was to bring it down to reasonable for you to be comfortable in the building brings it from you know 90 to 75. So you're going down five degrees. That's the whole point of it. But it's very efficient. That's the whole idea that it's doesn't cost a ton to run these pumps and to

build these wells. So it helps with heating cost and emissions for instead of doing other types of things. probably better than freon in an air conditioner. That makes sense. I understand what you're saying. That's what it's I didn't know they could do it commercially. I the only ones I've ever seen application the guy that lives next to me, he owns he owns a company that does this, but he does it for residence and I had a buddy that did it at his house in Clifton Park. He kind of made his own thing. Google got been this business a few years ago, a company called Daisy where they were drilling these eco wells. these uh these walls for um really need to speak up a little bit or in the mic or something. I said there Google got into this business a few years back with a company called Daisy that was building these these u thermal well geothermal wells for um homes and it's kind of like the new it's kind of the new thing to do when you're building a new home. It's expensive though if you're doing it on home. My understanding is to put it when you build a new home. This is the best way to heat and cool your home. I don't know how a commercial level is smart, but it's it's neat that I didn't even know you could do it on a commercial level. It's kind of exciting. Is it going to go into the residents, too, that are in that loop? It's going to go to any building user that would like to entertain an offload on it. It's more efficient and it's going to cost less money to those people. It's for their heating. It's more efficient and the fees are capped for a certain amount of time. Uh it's also, you know, when you look at, you know, carbon and net zero, that's what this is. You know, it's you have zero emissions. I wish I looked for this system. So, how does National Grid make money on this project? National grid. This is a pilot project for National Grid.

I also think government's funding some of this subsidized some way that because it's cleaner there right now there's we have to apply every time there there's stages of approvals um to designate how much money we can go towards this I I can't speak to logistics of how we make money into the future but it is a pilot program and it very well could lose money because of that nature so I' I've had some experience in different kinds of well work um how Far down do these wells go? I mean, they don't have to tap into anything. They're just a containment well. So, how far down do they go? Approximately 600 feet. Far. I think if it's okay at the board, it's time to Yeah. You know, the public any questions or any feedback? Hi, I'm John Elbomb. I live at 16 Lindsay Drive in Troy. I'm the executive director of the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall. We are very supportive of this project. We've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars with the hope of potentially tying into this geothermal loop and saving energy costs, be more efficient, and uh saving us money uh in the future. I think it's a benefit for the Troy and this pilot project could be a great benefit for the state in the future and and we're very hopeful that this moves forward. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else out there? How about online? Anybody online? Nobody online. But nobody's [Music]

question all of them. I think so. Seeker. Seeker. Type two. Seeker. Yeah. Okay. Uh, Mr. Chairperson, uh, in regard to PLZBA 2025-000031 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be a seeker type two action with sufficient information available upon which to state that no determination is necessary or required. A second. Take a vote then. I approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. It's five approved. Five approvals. Five yeses. No. No. That's for the seeker. Yeah. I make a motion that that the board uh approve the variance based on the following fact that it's not going to create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood and it is not a self alleged difficulty um or it's not it's not self-created. I second that motion. Ready to take a vote? Yep. I approve. Enthusiastically yes. No. Approve. Approve. Approve. One. No. [Music] Thank you for your time this evening. Thank you very much. Okay. Next up, PLZBA 2024 0033. Troy Savings Bank Music Hall. [Music]

Hi, good evening board members. Thank you for your time tonight. We'll give the city staff a moment. Hey, Angie. Uh, my name is Dash Krishnner. I'm the architectural designer of this project and this proposal at Architecture Plus. Uh tonight I proudly represent the applicant, the uh Troy Savings Bank Music Hall Corporation and foundation. Uh our ask tonight is a use variance for the use of one electronic message center or just a digital display signage uh at the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall in the courtyard right along Second Street. A little bit of context here. This is a very critical component of what is called the Troy Music Hub expansion project. We are, I'm sure you've seen perhaps on Second and State, active construction. We're turning the bank hall into a revitalized event space to expand the event space cap capabilities of the facility as a whole. We're also bringing uh heating and cooling into the existing music hall space. So, it's expected to uh increase the uh the folks coming to the music hall by 30 to 40% at the facility at large, both the hall and the hub. And uh it might surprise you, but 70% of the attendees of music hall events are actually from outside of Renelier County. So, messaging and identifying the space is is absolutely critical. I'm sure all of you and everyone in this room could identify the Music Hall building in a slew of every other building in downtown Troy, but that's just not the case for um folks that come from out of town. So, again, a little specifics here and some history. Uh we did receive planning commission approval in July. We did receive our building permit, hence why there's active construction as we speak. And then in August, we originally applied to come before all of you uh for what was I'd say an unclear vision of four electronic

message centers. Um the planning what was the planning commission at the time as well as members of the public had very realistic and rational concerns about the the lighting and how it could trespass into nearby residences. So, we've taken some time to not only better understand the the extent of our budget, but also um put those considerations into um into the project. So, what I'm speaking on is that the sign that we have now is facing north and south. To the north, it's facing an office building, the E Stewart Jones building, and to the south, it's facing what is the walkway and the sidewalk in front of the music hall building. It is the screens themselves are not facing west toward the residences across the street. The uh the single EMC does have two displays on either side. They're I think 3'7 high by 1t 11 wide and in common household TV dimensions that's a 48 in diagonal. So relatively compact, relatively modest. Um both of those screens are housed within an aluminum body. Um the design which you see in front of you is in keeping with some architectural motifs of the building itself. So it's historically respectful I would say. Um yeah that that is our ask tonight. Um I I will clarify that the some of the information that was posted on the agenda came from our former August submission which was for EMC's and it included an area variance. So, I do want to clarify that this sign is only to be installed at 302nd Street, that courtyard space in front of the annex building. And we are only asking for a use variance. No area variance needed and no EMC at 32 or 42nd Street. Just one EMC. That's right. Got it. So, so I have a question. So, this is not

pixelated, correct? This is like looking at a television screen. Exactly. It is an LCD screen. and both sides. Yep. And is there, you know, you talked about interfering with because I know it's apartment building right across the street. Um, is there a time when it gets dimmer at night or goes off at night or Yes. So, so the intended operating hours that I've I've been told from the client are 9:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m. Uh, their shows typically end around 9 or 10 p.m. and then it would shut off. control. Um, there are also ambient lighting uh restrictions or standards in the city code that we would completely comply by. Um, so those would those would also allow the screens to not be overly bright on a day that it doesn't need to be. And it's really I mean you only have one show at a time. So is it it's not going to be moving. It's going to be like this is what it is or is there going to be a continuous flow of stuff? We we hope to have a continuous flow of some posters and other images. It would certainly be slow. It would be steady. It wouldn't be fast. It wouldn't be strobing. It wouldn't be sliding through at an unreadable pace. Um but it's it certainly would cycle through at a at a leisurely pace. Okay. So, like what's playing tonight? Exactly. What's what's playing tonight? Upcoming shows, community events, um other announcements and things like that. if in the music hub space we intend to have conferences or um or weddings. So perhaps something of that nature to lead folks into the space um to announce that that type of event and and that that time frame is built into this already. Do we need to if we go forward we need to specify that the 9 to 10 9:00 a.m. to 10? Sure. That's that's what we're working with now. You're welcome to to provide any feedback or suggestions. Yeah, I don't have any questions. Anything

from the public out there on this? My name is Jones. You got to come up to the next door. You have to come up to the mic. Sorry. That's okay. Take your time. Go anywhere. My family's been in that building for 75 years. I've been practicing law there for 50 plus years. What's good for music hall is good for the city of Troy. Oh. It's it's a gem. RPI and music hall are the two most important buildings, structures, businesses in this city. Endorse it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? [Music] How about online? Sorry. Any questions from online? There was a letter received that I forwarded to Angie and we got it. We got it. Great. You don't want me to read it out loud? No, we'll read it. Part of the record. Great. Keep it on the record. We need to read that letter. No, it's it's We're good. All right. Do we do the secret out? The planning commission is lead agency. The lead lead agency was the planning commission, planning board. So, so they right. Have they named it yet? Okay. All right. They have they they issued the NE deck, right? They issued I I do recall now. They planning the prior commission issued a neg um what he's here for is a use variance because this is a prohibited sign, I guess. So, do we need to make any statement at all with No. No. Okay. The only statement we want to make is the 9:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. That's that's a condition of the of the variance if you grant it. I guess you can add that condition to the So that could be part of the motion. I will I would like to move that the board approve this variance with conditions

that comes on at 9:00 a.m. and shuts off at 900 p.m. 10 p.m. 10 10 p.m. Sorry. Um based on the following facts, I do believe that um it will provide a reasonable return for the property. Um, I believe that Detroit Music Hall is unique compared to similar properties in our neighborhood. I think the requested variance will not alter the character of our neighborhood and I believe that it is not selfcreated. I second that motion. I vote to approve. Approve. Yes. Approve. Yes. Thank you board members. Much appreciated. Can't wait. You're getting air conditioning, too. Yes. Come on to a show. Oh, I went to a whole bunch this spring. So, thank you all. Take care. Take care. [Music] Okay. [Music] All right. Let's go with PLZBA 2025 00321718 Highland Avenue. Good evening uh commissioners. Um my name is Paul Mcrino. I'm with Amicus 3 LLC properties. Um we did buy 1718 Highland Avenue last year. Uh was on bid. We bid on the property. There was an existing home on the property that the city had torn down. It was quite dilapitated. We own six houses to the east of the um that this this lot. So what we're our intention is to build a two-story two family home basically in

that same footprint but it does not meet because the lot size is only 3 point or excuse me 36 53 feet uh wide and the variance uh calls for I mean excuse the zoning minimum width is 40t so I I don't know what I can do with changing the 40 ft. Other than asking for an aarance on this property, um that's about all I have. Go ahead. So, essentially, you buy the land from the city of Troy. Yes, I did. You want to put a two family house up and you want us as a zoning board to wave that 4 foot. That is correct. It's It's actually a little less than four feet, but yes, approximately. Yes, approximately. And you're following the footprint of a pre-existing building. That is correct. I have no problem with that. Okay, let's do So, can we do the we'll do the see on this one? So, it is a two type two. Type two. Do you want to check for uh questions with regards to this subject or somebody else in here? Online. We can do it. Online, right? Anybody online? Anybody [Music] online? Can you hear me? Hello. Yes. Um I'm sorry trying to get my camera on. Um I live at 1716 Highland Avenue in a single residence home and I am in the right. Can you state your name and address please? My name is Jennifer and I live at 1716 Highland Avenue in Troy. Okay. Um, hi, thank you for, um, taking my

comment and question. So, I live in the lot directly next door to 1718 Highland, and I'm excited that something's happening with the lot. I know I'm going to be living right next to a construction site and I was just wondering if um the new proposed construction was going to be like even closer to my house that I'm anticipating and if Amicus would be willing to put up a privacy fence. I know it's going to be um for rental, a twounit rental home and um and I would be living directly kind of right on top of some RPI students and I was wondering if that would be a possibility. Uh yeah, I don't see a problem why we could uh put or why we could not put a fence up. We can put a fence up to give you privacy on that side. Uh the the distance between the house to the property line is five point uh it's five feet four inches on your side of the property. That's just to the property line. Then you have I think a sidewalk or a driveway there or something. Um I could put that on that property line up there to give you privacy because I plan on putting one in the back as well. That's great. Thank you so much. That's easy. I like that. No problem. Thank you. We'll see it in the neighborhood. Okay. I'm looking forward to it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is the board okay? Okay. P privacy ready for secret. Okay. All right. Uh Mr. Mr. Chairperson. Uh, in regard to PLZBA 2025- Z0032 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be a seeker type two action

with sufficient information available upon which to state that no determination is necessary or required. I second. Okay. All right. So, we're ready to vote with you'd like to on the SRA first, right? Uh I vote to approve. Yeah. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Now, let's go and vote on the uh what's at hand adding in. Should we add in the privacy fence on this vote? Is that how we do that, you guys? Yep. I think it's sort of a gentleman's agreement, isn't it? Yeah. I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to put it on an area of variance. I think I think [Music] you know what you can put it on and whether it's enforceable or not is a different question. Okay. Okay. I I I I believe this man intends to do what he said. I plan on it. I don't know if you've seen the neighborhood. We've been trying to clean up and we spent a lot of money in town trying to make things right. Okay. All right. ready to take a vote. You got to make a motion. [Music] I move that the I move that the board uh approve the variance uh with the condition that he agrees to put a privacy fence up on uh 7 1716 property line. The 716 property line. Um, and this variance will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood. I think that's all. Yeah, that's it. I'll second that motion. Thank you. I vote to approve. Yes. Approve. Approve. Approve. Thank you.

Appreciate it. Have a good night. Thank you. We have one more item to bring up. I would like to propose if everybody agrees and it's okay with the city and the administration and municipal law that we change the commencement time from 6:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. And that anybody who has to publish due notice, the office will do that. And if we have to wait until August, not opposed to something that I don't know of any I don't know of any any charter provision or code provision that requires meetings to begin at 6. Oh, we we have we hold special meetings at the council all the time at 5:30. Okay. Will this interfere with that at all? Will this with Will this interfere or conflict with any other meetings? None that none that I know of. I mean count you meet on different days. You guys can be here. So it's really you. You're already here. [Music] Um I mean just subject to a reservation that if I find something I'll bring it back to your attention. But but if if that's what everyone wants, I mean it's fine with me. It's actually better for me. Do you want you to look and then we could That's a There's no real place to I mean I've looked at the code quite a bit over the past 10 years. I'm just saying someone might I don't know everything but someone might point out something to me. You don't know everything? No, I don't. No. So it's so it's a a case by case if there's a conflict. But is that an agreement with everybody on the zoning board of appeals? Yeah.

530 5:30 unless you tell us otherwise. So, so you'll just notice the next meeting for 5:30 and I don't know if there's something you have to change at the website. We need to make a motion and vote on it. Workshops. Do we need to make a motion? All right. But there'll be more than there'll be 30 at least 30 day almost 30 days notice of the change. Right. When when does the right when does the next meeting notice in August? Go start it in August. Stay at six o'clock for July. Start in August. You want to start in August? Yeah. Okay. I I I I second the notion a secret on that. Do we need Do we need to second and vote? I vote to approve. We have to have to improve. I make a motion that we adjourn this. I second. All in favor? I I do a roll call vote on that. Oh, Steve, you are just stirring the pot, man. praises by