Historic Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

26th meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission to order. Apologies, I'm running about three minutes late. So, first item on the agenda, if I look at the right page, is approval of the minutes from the August 19th meeting. So, if the members could please review the minutes, offer any corrections or amendments, or please offer up a motion. Do we have a motion to approve? Do we have a second? Second. All in favor?

The motion passes. Okay.

New business. First item on the agenda is for a COA for installation of signage at 63 West Candler Street. Map and parcel number are in your packet. If there's anybody here from the occupant or the... Hi, good evening.

Can you please state your name? AJ Burt-Hammer. I'm representing Unity Integrated Health.

Thank you. And this is just for... Let's pull up the pictures here. And this is just for a single lamppost sign outside the... It's actually like a flag.

It looks like a lamppost that is on the column. Exactly. Okay. It was just a Photoshop.

Okay, so it would be on the corner of that column then. Okay. So not covering up the lamppost. Correct. Is this the same corner or is this a different corner here? Okay. So it would be two signs on different corners. Okay.

Page 17 is a map showing you which corners that have a sign.

And the sign meets all the dimension requirements for the local sign ordinance. Do the members have any?

Questions? On page 16. On page 16. The second sign that you proposed, is this on the back corner of the building?

So, yes, sir. So, let's see what page is this. Page 17 or the last page, there should be Kind of like an overview.

Is this on the back corner?

It is the back corner.

It's the side that's- Faces of Center Street.

It's on the side that faces the street that the Mason Lodge and the- Okay, I got you. Yes.

I got you. Thank you. To be a little more specific on the diagram, they've got it on the corner- However, where the placement will actually be is between those two pine trees where it will come out. That way, when they come down the road, you can see it from the full length of the road until you come to the intersection.

Okay. And you said on this first one that the sign is going to be postage. On the building, on the...

Correct, yes. It looks like it's on a flagpole, yes, sir.

It does, okay.

And these don't look like they have any lighting or anything like that. They're just... No, ma'am. I have no more questions. Any other questions? Thank you. Do we have any members of the public that would like to speak? Seeing none, okay. Bring it back to the table. Does anybody have any discussion points or motions? Is that a motion? Okay. We have a second from Brandon. All in favor? Motion passes unanimously. Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming. Okay. The next and last item on our agenda is for discussion and consideration for nominating historic property or site for recognition by the HPC. This is something that we've discussed in the past that would be posted on – we recognize it and it would be posted on social media. So the nominations are in your packet there. Do we want to just kind of go around the table with people who made nominations and just very briefly explain why they made the nomination? So, okay.

Okay, I think if you just, maybe you first and then do just an order. The order of the packets? Yes.

Okay. I have a question, too. Go ahead.

I was talking to Court about it, too, and I was wondering if we could also kind of come up with, like, some criteria or, like, things that would help us choose, like, things to look for. You know, not, like, requirements, but maybe, like, some, like, things that, so we're kind of all on the same page. Like, are we looking for ones that have already been restored? Are we looking for ones just based on their historic value as they are? And then if they have been restored, are we looking for... ones that have kept to the period, you know, strictly, like, that kind of thing. Like, are we just looking for, like, what are we looking for, I guess.

Okay.

And are we going to stick to just ones in the Historic District, or are we okay to go outside of the Historic District?

Okay. Well, I guess we need to cover that before we go over the...

I thought we did before it would be Historic District, but...

I know when I...

I got a friend in the car with me, and we broke up, but I was strictly... trying to stay within the historic, you know, district, even though, I mean, I knew pretty much where the boundaries were. So I was trying to stick with them.

I seem to recall that we had talked about things maybe outside the historic district if they were, you know, of a certain age.

Yeah, of a certain age, I think. Yeah, that would be great. To raise awareness. I mean, the... They don't open it up more.

On Center Street, it's about a block and a half next door to the Peskin House, which was the... Valley Jennings House is where it ends from things that I've seen, maps I've seen.

Yeah, and the district boundaries are a little bit, they're almost 40 years old.

So we're looking at years.

I'm just saying that the district boundaries were originally developed like 40 years ago. And, you know, they excluded, you know, certain older neighborhoods. So I think it's worth, you know. Me, personally, I mean, everybody else chime in, but I think it's worth bringing up other properties if we feel that they're significant. That's good.

Well, my thought was I didn't know at the beginning that we were supposed to do it in the historic district, so the two nominations that I have are totally outside of the historical boundaries, but they have age and they have a history. And I think as long as we're in the city limits, I think those things still matter. I don't think we should overlook them. It's good to keep those things in the historic district. We definitely want to acknowledge those, but I think Winder has a history, and it's not all in just that one area.

Okay. So would everybody generally agree that we can look outside the historic district for that? And to Andrea's point, as far as certain criteria, what would we be looking for?

So I thought we had talked about, and maybe I misunderstood or maybe this is just my brain, we were looking for those properties where the owners had not just kept it up but also – you know, made of a prized possession property, right? So that's the criteria I was looking at. Like, okay, I know we've got some historical buildings, but have they been kept up? Are they being run down, et cetera? So that, I think, if we're going to highlight a property, my opinion would be we highlight those properties, particularly at least at the beginning, who have, the homeowners who have taken the time to keep the property looking historical and adding to it. If it's landscaping or keeping up with just the way the exterior maintenance, et cetera, and not just say, hey, this is historical.

A house across the street from me would fit that bill 1,000%.

I agree with you, Brandon, because I think if all of the houses that we look at, and most of the ones that we're probably thinking about, may not have the same owner, but the houses have been maintained and they still, their presence or their, you know, driving down the street, their presence still, you still, you know, look. And it looks, the curb appeal is without question. And I don't think we, I'm not going to say we shouldn't acknowledge the fact that there are houses that are historical, but they've not been maintained at all. And I think for us to acknowledge those people who have gone through the heartache and the back-breaking work to maintain their houses should be acknowledged, period.

At least at the beginning of all this. Yeah. Let's highlight the best of the best. And then if we somehow get to the end of that list and we need more, then we can maybe start looking at some of those other properties.

Okay.

And if we do look at some of those other properties that have not really just been maintained, that might be an opportunity for someone, for someone maybe to come in and see and maybe take it over. I don't think we should not ignore, I don't think we should ignore them, but I don't think we should make them a priority. Not a top priority. They still maintain their historical sense, but.

Okay. Does that have general agreement or approval from the folks? Okay. Okay. Does that satisfy your question about, like, setting some parameters for this? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. And what about, like, age? How far back do we want to go as far as, like, age range?

Well, National Registered Criteria has to be at least 50 years of age, so... Okay. I'm historic now. Me too.

Me too.

I'm just an antique. I haven't hit historic yet.

Well, I'm past historic. Okay. Well, if everybody's in agreement with that, then we can just – we'll go in the order of the packet here and – Since I'm the first one in here, I'll go ahead. My two were 25 West Candler Street. That's the Jackson John's house. And then 47 North Jackson Street. The first one I kind of highlighted. Kind of to your second point, highlighting properties that need a little bit of TLC, this property is on the National Register, and I just thought by recognizing it, it might prompt a little bit of awareness for it. Because it is, you know, very... architecturally significant house. And then the second one was the Night Sky Coffee Roaster place. Those folks there, as I understand it, they used historic preservation tax credits to do all the right things with the building, and this just kind of shows how preservation can really contribute to economic development.

Adriana?

Yes. I selected the 31 West Stephen Street. I just love what they did. I guess I went more for curb appeal. I nominated that one, too. I just think it's so beautiful, and I kind of looked at some pictures beforehand, but, I mean, it just has great curb appeal. That's really what I went off of. They didn't do a whole lot. I think the only thing that I noticed of, like, difference is, like, the back porch. They opened it up. That's the only thing I noticed. But I think it's beautiful. I just kind of went by, like, you know, just keeping it but making it beautiful. And then the 88 North Center Street, I just think that house pops. Like, when you... When you go into that street, it looks really good.

And that's the entrance of the historic neighborhood, correct?

Mm-hmm. So I think it kind of sets the tone. Or it can. I went by curb appeal. I really did.

They just need to get rid of that Alabama flag.

I was just about to say, look at that ugly Alabama flag. That's almost a deal breaker.

Next in the packet is Lynn.

Yes.

Well, we did the old Etheridge House, too. So that was one of them. And then we did this house, which is also on Steering Street. I don't know if this, I can't remember if this is the one Chris Maddox lives in or next door to it.

I think that's the one where she lives.

But it was very neat. It looked like a brick had been cleaned and that kind of thing.

Next in the packet is Brandon.

So it's 31 students. I chose this for a couple different reasons. One, when I think of just the historical neighborhoods or historical buildings, like this one is top of my list every time.

And this dates prior to 1920. I don't know a whole bunch about it. I just remember that my great-granddaddy wanted to buy it for my great-grandmother. And she refused to move. They lived on Broad Street. So I knew it went back that far for that reason.

Yeah, I... I just fell in love with this house. I love how they've opened up the porch, which I would assume was how it was when it was built. And then how they were able to create that wrought iron fencing with the brick posts, but they were able to closely match the natural brick of the home. The landscaping is amazing. It's just... It's a gem for the city, for sure.

There was a time they had closed that open porch in for a sleeping porch. It's a real good thing that it's gone back to this.

Yes, it's very nice and appealing. The second property is 85 North Center Street. It actually sits on the other side at the beginning of the historical district. Yeah, they've... The Wears, I believe, are the folks that live there. They have always done an amazing job. The people before them that they bought from did an amazing job. I think it was Tommy Jennings' old home. It was. Yeah.

It was. And it dates back probably to the early part of the century, maybe a little bit before. There was a Brooker family that lived there.

I live there. Did you? Yes, I did. A friend of mine lived there, and I was moving to another apartment. Was it Bell?

Was it Bell? Don't you? Is that her name?

Yes.

So, yeah. But I lived there. Yeah, it's just another one with a great curb appeal. They've done an amazing job of keeping this historicity of the look.

One of my best friends lived there, and they started the renovation on the house. I don't remember the year. But they ended up selling it to Tommy Jennings. And Tommy started, you know, finished up the renovations and everything. So the house maintained, as far as what I know is on the interior, it maintained all of its historic. The staircase, the molding, all of that was still there. They did very little modernization to it. They just kept the spaces as it was and like the living room and the dining room and all of that. And they didn't change a thing. They just made sure they just took the paint off of a lot of the old woodwork and got it back to natural. And the houses look the same. This is almost the way it looked right before the first page. That's the first way it looked.

And it's considered a three-story house.

Yes. The attic is still open. But it's still maintained as I agree with you 100% on this historical value. It is maintained that.

Andrea, you were next on the list. So I nominated, actually nominated 112 and 118, which is next to it, but 118 is outside of the district. And this picture doesn't really do it justice. It looks even better, I think, than this second picture because there's a lot more landscaping now. But they just did a fantastic job. It's the original owner. It's been in the family. It's the same family for three generations. I think this is Chris's ex-husband. Yeah. Yeah, so his grandfather or great-grandfather? Yeah, grandfather. And so, yeah, so he moved back in, and they totally renovated it inside and out.

And he owns that two-story house next door to Hawaii? Yes. Mm-hmm.

And that one was in real disrepair when they took that one back over. So they did a lot of work on that one.

Yeah, I can remember that one from a long time ago. It looks really nice.

It was really rough, and now it looks fabulous.

And this one, a lot of people put additions on buildings. They did this in such a way that you really don't see it. You can't tell. Yeah, they did it on the back of the house.

You can't tell. It really did. In fact, when he came, I saw him right after the renovation. I complimented him on it. The house looked like it's always been that way. I mean, the first picture that you had was, it was there. It had a presence, but it just, it was kind of very subtle. And Chris just awakened it, given it a new life. But he did not take anything away from the character and the basics of the house the way it had been for years, really. Oh, because the only thing he did take away was the garage. There was a three-car garage over there. I don't think it's still there.

They made it into a pool house, the carport that was back there.

The house is exactly the way it was. Yeah, that looks great.

We have enough packets. Did you turn yours in late?

No, I forgot. I had a senior moment. But my nomination would have been the Bush Chapel A.D. Zion Church over on Horton Street. Just this past week, the last week, they had their 165th anniversary. The church basically hasn't changed very much. It's been renovated in some ways and everything. But it's 165 years. In fact, this is a church that I grew up in. And it's been a member. This is where my family has been a member for over 70 years. So that's my one thing.

And from what I recall, that's locally quarried granite.

Yes, it is. They just made a new addition, but they were very, very careful. We were very careful about the new fellowship hall that they just built to the side. But it did not take away anything from the church. They tried to maintain everything. Even the stone that they put on the new fellowship hall, they tried to get it. It's not the same thing, but it's not. The stone enhances and kind of gives you a feeling of the old church itself. But that's my first one. Okay, my second one is... My old school, when I went from first grade until the 11th. This is the old Glenwood School that is now the Wimbledon Center. Now, this school, I don't remember the year, so if we do something like that, I will get the history from the very beginning and everything and have all that information for you. But these are my two. And this school, God, it's well over 50 years old.

I went to school there.

You did? But I'm older than you.

And there was a school located on that same site before that was?

Mm-hmm.

This one was the second school. The original school was over on James Albert Drive now. The building has been torn down. But it was the very first school for the African-American citizens of the county that they went there because at that particular time, Most of the schools were in with the churches. Now, right to the side, off to Bush Chapel, there used to be a building off to the left side, if you're facing this. If you're facing it, it's on the right side. If you're facing the church, it's on the right side. There used to be a school building there. And that's where my mom and my dad went to school. Most of the churches here in Statham and Bethlehem, yeah, Statham, Bethlehem, Yeah, because this old schoolhouse in Bethlehem is still there. The old schoolhouse at Bethlehem Church was there for a while, and I can't remember if there was a school in Staten, but most of them had schools right around in the area. And so that's where they went. The original first school that existed in Glenwood was a two-story building of brick. And I should have brought a picture of it, but I didn't. I forgot it. But anyway, those are my two.

Well, I appreciate everybody sending their nominations. Good job selecting a good cross-section of the town. So I guess we need to take a vote.

May I make a suggestion?

Sure.

If we look at the first page on this, we've got a house that it seems like three people that really brought that to attention. I think that should be our first house. And my saying that is because it got brought up three times and I mean that it caught someone's attention and I think that should be our first house. We just need to get the history out of it.

Okay.

I agree.

I would tend to agree with that. 31 West Stevens. 31 West Stevens.

Okay.

And I'm a member of the Bear Preservation Society, and I think that home was on our tour one year, and we may have some historical information from a booklet. I'll see if I can find that, and I'll send it to you.

I'm pretty sure I've been to that tour. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

It has the cutest little basement apartment in it.

Really?

Yeah. I know it was owned by the pharmacist, right? They said they found some old bottles and stuff down in the basement at one point when they were doing some operations. They were like some glass test tubes or bottles or something. I don't know.

I remember them. They didn't throw anything.

But I'll try to send that. I'll try to find it and send it to you. And I know the homeowners, so I can tell them they've been nominated if you want me to make sure it's okay with them to be featured if you want.

I'll get back with you offline.

Okay. Sounds good.

I have another suggestion. Okay. This first collection of homes that we've got or buildings that we have seen today, I think it's a very good start to what we want to do. And I think this is where we should go with these. Whatever time frame that we have set in each one of those, I think that would be a good thing.

We were doing what? Were we doing every two months, every quarter? Can you remind me?

At least every quarter. Okay. Okay.

I think we've got a very good start on that. But the most important thing with each one of these is getting the history of the house. That's the most important thing now is acknowledging the history of the house as much as we can.

Given that we have quite a selection here, you'd suggested we've got enough for every month. Do we want... Instead of getting too ambitious, do we want to do like every other month?

I'm thinking every other month because I think once a quarter is not enough to like, I don't know, build excitement.

I agree.

So in two months, we'll look at this selection again and pick another one? Go to the next one. And highlight another one.

If we can, as we look and bring something to the table, at least have a general history of the house. that would be a good thing too. It doesn't have to be a chronological thing, but we need to have a general history of the house.

Some of that may be a little bit more challenging, but for some folks, if it's something we don't know a whole lot about, but we can try. I can pull out, I have a copy of the old National Register of the Historical Society files for the National Register when they were doing the research. So that might help on, I don't know if it's going to align with any of these properties or future properties that Easy information to get.

We can always ask our colleagues, Douglas and Lynn. They seem to know everybody's property and where it's at. They're not even paying attention.

Y'all just got nominated while you were talking.

You mentioned bringing the history, and I was making the comment that if we don't know it, because Patricia was looking at us like, And I said, we can always ask our esteemed colleagues, Douglas and Lynn. They seem to know where all the historical properties are.

You're the first on the call list. Okay. So do we need a formal vote for that? It sounds like we've just kind of generally agreed.

Okay.

Well, 31 West Stephen Street it is. Good job, everybody. Thank you for participating. And again, in two months, we will pick another from the packet.

I want to make sure I have clear. Are we going to kind of acknowledge some of the things that are in the city, or are we just going to stick to the store?

I think it will. We've got the packet for, you know, our next couple of selections. But I think out – well, it's just the city. Okay.

Okay.

Yeah. We're not sticking to the historic district is what we came to the consensus to.

The reason I ask is because then I want to make sure that I'll be working on getting the history of my two denominations.

Okay.

And I'm going to get an in-depth history of both.

So, yeah, they're in the city then.

Yeah. They're in the city.

Okay. Very good. Okay. With that, I'll take a motion for adjournment for this meeting.

I motion to adjourn.

We have a motion. Do we have a second? Do we have a second? All in favor? Okay. Thank you very much, everybody. Have a good rest of your day.