Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Stillwater Planning Commission meeting of May 19 will now come to order. It will be the process this evening to call for items on the agenda. The commission will hear briefly from staff first, then the applicant and or their representative, then open the public hearing and hear from those in favor and or in opposition to the request. When you come to the podium, please clearly state your name and address for the record. Each speaker will get one turn at the podium. Please limit your speaking time to five minutes or less. Please try not to repeat what the previous speakers have said. If you have something to add to a previous point, please do so. But merely repeating the same thing over and over does not advance the dialogue and sometimes takes away from other speakers who might have something new to say. No clapping, cheering, or booing in response to a speaker's comments. Please be respectful of others' viewpoints. Persons creating outbursts can be removed from the hearing. Then before we close that public hearing, we'll have an opportunity for both the staff and the applicant or their representative to come forward and have the opportunity to respond to provide additional information and answer questions. After all interested parties have spoken, the public hearing will be closed. And then we will hear closing remarks and alternatives from staff. So the first item this evening on the public hearings for the agenda are to receive public comment regarding an application for a short-term rental. And we shall hear from staff.

I should have confirmed with the agenda, but 135 South Melrose is first, right? Yes, it is. Perfect. Good evening, Commissioners, Chair. My name is Henry Beebleheimer with Development Services, and I'm here tonight to talk to you about a short-term rental. This is a short-term rental license application for 135 South Melrose Drive. We have two different short-term rental license applications we're going to hear tonight. So a quick overview of short-term rentals and where we're at on that, and then we'll kind of move forward with each application. Short-term rentals we've talked about a lot recently. There was a text amendment that has come before you a few meetings ago and has gone to City Council. Second reading of that ordinance was last night where it did get tabled for a future meeting so that we can look at a few modifications. That does mean that that text amendment is not implemented. So we're looking at these short-term rentals tonight under the current code. Under the current code, a Short-term rental license, when it's applied for, we send notices out to everyone within 300 foot of the property. If an objection is submitted to the city, then we schedule the short-term rental license for public hearing before planning commission, which is you guys here tonight. So that's what we're doing here tonight for 135 South Melrose Drive. Here's an area map which shows the property on the east side of Melroy's north of Monticello, which is about a quarter mile north of the university, just to make that map kind of make sense. And one thing we wanted to point out for these short fermentals, a note on the density is that this is not used for decision making as this is not currently in code, but we just wanted to show you how this would affect the future code since we are starting to calculate density. If that code were to be approved in the future. So here's the property outlined in pink. As we can see there, these big black dots to explain are the currently approved short-term rental licenses. Not to say if there are other short-term rentals in the area. These are the ones that are licensed and active with the City of Stillwater. So what we would be considering a block is, let me just turn my laser on, would be this oval right here, which has 17 lots in it. 17 lots means if the current code were to be approved, that would be 20% of those lots could be short-term rentals, which would be 3.4 licenses, which rounds up to four, because we're always round up. So this would be the third of fourth licenses that could be approved in that block, just if that new code were to be approved, just some context there. So I'm open to answer any questions if you have any.

Any questions for staff? All right, thank you. At this time, we would allow the applicant to come forward if they'd like to add additional information.

My name is Steve Stevens. My wife, Terry, is here with me. We're the owners of that property. Our permanent address is 3300 Lakeshire Ridge Way in Edmond. We bought that house about 13 years ago when I came up to work as the general counselor for the OSU Board of Regents. Even though we didn't live too far away, it was too far to commute back and forth all the time. We've loved that house. Students have never lived in it. My wife and I have completely redone it. It's a labor of love. But we hate to have an asset sitting there that we no longer really use that we'd love to cover some of the carrying costs because we still want to own that house. So we're only going to be planning on renting it on Thursday, Friday, and Saturdays a few weekends a year. I don't know how often these things rent. Probably through VRBO and Airbnb. This is new to us. But we wanted to do it. I saw on that map, there's people right behind us. We've been getting notices of people doing short-term rentals. We thought it'd be a good opportunity to see if we could get into that and help us keep this little house that we love to keep, hopefully long enough that our grandkids can come up here when they go to OSU and have a place to live as well. But anyway, any questions you all have, it's It's a cute little house. We love it. Students all the way around us, but they've been no problems ever. It's a neat little neighborhood close to campus. And when I was general counsel, sometimes I'd drive my golf cart back and forth to campus because it was street legal. So anyway, any questions? I'd be happy to answer any that you have or anyone that out here has any.

Any questions from counsel?

With three bedrooms and one full bath, what do you think the occupancy is going to be?

It really is only equipped for two bedrooms, and it's a bath and a half. And so I think the occupancy would be, we'd advertise it as four, but if people want to sleep on a couch, I guess they could. The house is 1,600 square feet. It has a detached two-car garage, which is fully functional, but we're probably not going to rent that because I keep my golf cart there. And my son is an attorney here in town, and during the week he lives there, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays. So it's not going to be available for rental other than that. And one of the things that I thought, living in that area, you know, parking is the area that I think is the biggest issue over there. But this particular property, besides having a two-car garage, covered garage, it has parking for about six or eight cars. It's three or four cars deep. It's a nice-sized driveway. So people don't really ever have to park out in front of our house when they come visit. They park in the driveway. And I would anticipate that's the same issue. Because on Melrose, you can only park on one side of the street. But students back out every morning, they would crowd my driveway just about as much as they could. So anyway.

with your son living there part of the week and you guys not living here, and you haven't done it before, he said, do you have somebody that's gonna be available in case there's an issue?

We do, one, my son, but we have, we only live 45 minutes away, so it's not difficult for us. We do have rental property in Oklahoma City. That's my retirement job right now is taking care of those. We've been the rental business in Oklahoma City for, our entire marriage. I mean, at one time we had 19 homes. We're down to eight, and that's about all this old man can carry forward with. But you come see the work I do, I'm pretty handy. And we have good contractors we work with for plumbing and heating and air and stuff like that. We've always had good folks, good relationships here in town.

Usually what neighbors are concerned about, they bring up a lot, is parties because it's near campus. And so it would be somebody to deal with that if a call comes in.

Well, one, we could do that close enough, but two, I mean, I lived there for the last 13 years, and I'll just tell you Thursday, Friday, and Saturday around that area, there's kids always having some kind of party. Kids live all around there. They've never been a – well, I had one problem one time many years ago, and we solved it over the fence. It was not a big issue. But I don't anticipate that would be an issue. But if it is, we'll handle it. Yeah. The way I understand it, when you do this Airbnb, VRBO kind of stuff, they rate you and you rate them, and they want to get a five-star rating too, and they won't get a five-star rating if they have a rager there, and it causes me grief. They won't get one.

So your properties in the city are long-term rentals, I take it?

Yeah, we've been doing that for a long time. Terry's family was in the business as a sideline and talked me into it years ago. So I'm pretty handy if you need anything done. I can build a house on the ground up now, I feel like. In fact, I took that and we – it's beside the point. I know you guys are busy – We use that skill to be able to get our church. We did 40 houses rehabbing for what used to be called Christmas in April. Now it's called Rebuilding Together. But it taught me quite a few things. I'm the owner, the cook, the bottle washer, everything with regard to rental properties. I do it all.

Well, one of the suggestions that we make to people that are doing Airbnbs in Stillwater, and we really don't have the authority to enforce it, but it's a good idea if you make it more than a one-night minimum.

We really want to have it be a two-night minimum. We'd prefer Thursday, Friday, Saturday night rentals because that's when it's available. It won't be available on Sunday nights, Monday nights, Tuesdays, or Wednesdays. But on game weekends, we would only do two-day rentals. And we're not really sure yet if we're going to do that because we like to come up here for that. So I'm not sure how often we're going to be doing it. We want the opportunity more than anything. We've had people reach out to us in the past on trying to rent it out from, you know, because they knew we had it. And we said, no, but you just want to stay there, you can. So we've had a lot of friends do that through the years. It's a cute little house.

Thank you. Thank you.

OK. At this point, we'd open the public hearing and ask if there's anyone in the audience who would like to speak in favor of this item to please come forward. Seeing none, I'll ask if there's anyone in the audience who would like to speak in opposition to this item. Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing and ask staff to present our alternatives.

Yes, ma'am. The alternatives tonight are to approve, defer, or deny the application. I wouldn't make a recommendation, but it'll be to approve.

Thank you. Commissioners, any comments or discussion or perhaps a motion?

I move we approve the application. Second.

We have a motion and a second. We shall now vote. Motion passes 5-0. Next item on the agenda is another short-term rental. This one's STR 240.

Yes, ma'am. So carry over the summary speech of where we're at with short-term rentals. And we'll just start off with the, this is a short-term rental license for 1116 West Stonecrest Avenue. Here's the property outlined in pink. This is north of Stonecrest, which is just north of Richmond and west of Washington. Here's the property outlined in pink. Again, the density is shown, but not a decision-making factor as of yet. If we were to look at this as a block, The block would be this U-shape here, and that U-shape does have zero short-term rentals as of now. There's one across the street on Richmond. I'm open to answer any questions if you have any.

Any questions for staff? I don't see any. Thank you. At this time, we'd ask that the applicant could come forward and provide a little bit more information.

Good evening, everybody.

Good evening. My name is George Normandin. Went to school here in Stillwater a few years back. My wife did as well. Currently still enrolled as a student somehow, even though at this point in my life. Just got in the military a little bit ago, so we bounced around for a while. We've got family in Broken Arrow, which is where our permanent residence is, just to be close to family, but we're looking for ways to keep those ties to Stillwater. We've got a daughter who very much thinks she's going to go here at some point. She's 12, so we'll see how that goes. I've got a son that's 15, and one of the reasons why we bought this property was to try and give us a place to come to Stillwater. My wife is probably the biggest sports fan I've met, so coming down for softball, coming down for basketball, Really, softball is the primary one, but baseball, football, we've got season tickets to the football games. Really trying to give us an opportunity to come down, be able to spend the weekend with the family, get out of the house, do one of those staycations, more or less, not too far down the road. A place we can bring the dogs so we don't have to worry about leaving them at home all day when we go to football games is really what we were looking for. And then just as the previous gentleman had said, having a home like that, trying to find a way to offset some of the cost is the biggest reason why we're looking at short-term rentals. I've done long-term rentals in the past. In the military, the standard act for us was to buy a house, move away, and rent that out when we left. I did a lot of those, managed those through long distance and then had people in town that I could reach out to if we had issues. I plan to execute or operate the same way here. I plan to manage it myself. I do plan to go with the two night minimum, which I think is a great idea to try and limit just the one night where somebody gets in and causes trouble and gets out. I'd like to see people that come down for events, whether that's graduation, again, the football games. I may not be able to give those weekends up myself, but any of the many events that we've got here in town. I don't plan on renting that place out too much. We were able to purchase this house outright through a 1031 that I did with the previous rental. Because of that 1031, I'm not able to use it as a second home, vacation home, anything like that. Any nights that I spend on the property with my family, I have to offset with somebody else being in that home as a customer. So again, a couple weekends a month is really the goal here so that we can use the other weekends ourselves with the family. And I'm happy to answer any questions or expand on anything that you would like to talk about.

I hesitate to ask because it's not that relevant, but the trade-off you mentioned between your staying there and renting it, can you rent it to yourself?

I can't. Not personally. I can rent it to family at fair market value.

But you couldn't pay? You couldn't go on Airbnb and your wife rent it from you?

I don't believe so. That's probably something I'd have to look at. My understanding is if it's you or your family, you're not allowed to do that.

I'm just curious. Thanks.

So lots of times we'll ask if there's a platform that you're looking at using.

Right now the plan is VRVO that's just because that's the one that we typically looked at whenever we went places. I'm not sure which one is more common here in Stillwater but that's the one we've looked at and that's when we used to set up the the shell so that we could offer the application for review.

And then like the last question we had, lots of times neighbors are interested in parking issues. So based on the number of occupants, how many occupants would you have?

My plan is four to six at a maximum. It's a three bedroom, two bath house. I have a four member family. That's honestly what I envision. That's how we're going to set the house up with beds. Somebody wants to sleep on the couch or double up on one of the smaller beds in one of the bedroom. I'd allow that to accommodate a bigger family. I can't say that I can only rent it to families, but again, that's kind of what I envision.

And then parking spaces that are available?

Yep, so we've got two spots in the driveway, and I would limit it to those two cars. In the current neighborhood, I live in Broken Arrow.

Lots of people parking in the driveway.

I mean, parking in the street, and I understand those frustrations, and I'm going to do my best to limit that. did you say you have somebody here in town that is available i do not so my realtor that i use when i purchase does do he is a property manager he is the one that i would reach out to as my primary if i needed somebody but my game plan is to try and manage this myself With us trying to start it this summer, my wife's a teacher, so she'll be free for the summer. Just get us started. And with my job, I just started with an airline. So I'm off for three days, off for three days kind of a thing. So I should have some time during those times off. I plan on doing the cleaning, things like that, the upkeep myself.

Any other questions for the applicant? Thank you very much.

Thanks for your time.

At this time, we would open the public hearing and ask if there's anyone else in the audience who would like to speak in favor of this item to please come forward. Seeing none, we'll ask if there's anyone in opposition that would like to come forward.

Hi there. Excuse me. Good evening. My name is Hannah Laura Standridge and I live at 5021 North Stonecrest Court in the Stonecrest neighborhood and my family and I have lived there for 10 years. I am here tonight to respectfully oppose the short term rental application for our neighborhood. Our neighborhood is a quiet residential neighborhood. As you can see, we have no other short-term rentals in the neighborhood, and we're located on the north edge of town in a quiet part. Our neighborhood is made up of families, elderly. We have many children and longtime families who have lived there since they built their houses 15 years ago, and many other families like mine who have lived there more than 10 years. We love our neighborhood because it's peaceful, because we know our neighbors, and because we're community oriented. I understand that there are long-term rentals in our neighborhood and we welcome the students who rent those homes and we make them a part of our community cookouts. And they become a part of the neighborhood. That's one of the things that we treasure. And when homes go up for sale and I tell people, bring your kids, bring your families. Our neighborhood is safe. And so that's just my concern is that with short-term rentals, we don't know who's coming in and out of the neighborhood. I understand that the goal is just to have the two parking spots, but parking is already limited. The streets are narrow and we just have parking on one side. Like I said, we're not located near like the central downtown district. It's a quiet neighborhood and this home is right in the middle of our neighborhood, surrounded by families and elderly people living by themselves. Our concern is not about being unfriendly to visitors, and we would love for your family to join us in Stonecrest and to become a part of that community that we have. Just preserving the residential character, the stability, and the sense of accountability that having long-term neighbors provide is my key goal here. The short-term rentals just create a turnover of people in and out of the neighborhood, and I just feel that that'll change the nature and the character of our neighborhood as a whole. With summer coming, one of the things that we love the most is the ability for our children to go house to house, play in yards, play in the sprinklers, come get popsicles from the moms. We have a neighborhood mom group text so that we can communicate about where the kids are. So just preserving that is really important to me and to the other families in the neighborhood. Thank you.

Thank you. At this time, I'd ask if there's anyone else in the audience who would like to speak in opposition to please come forward.

Hello. Hello. My name is Amy Klein. You can probably pull it down a little bit. There you go. Hi. My name is Amy Klein. And I purchased the home where Hannah lives. She's my niece. I bought it for her and her children so they would have a very safe place to live. And that's my only concern about having a short-term rental is that it would lose the safety in the neighborhood. And she spoke very eloquently about how their neighborhood the culture of their neighborhood. And I just am happy that they live there and that the kids are safe and that they play. And I'm just kind of worried about outside traffic and people who don't know that kids are playing all the time. And to me, it's just more of a safety issue. And Hannah is not a long-term renter. Helm is in both of our names. But thank you for listening to me. She spoke much more eloquently than I did, but my whole concern is for the safety of her family. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll ask if there's anyone else in the audience that would like to speak in opposition to this item. Seeing none, we'd give the applicant an opportunity to come back if there's anything else you'd like to address. I think you've spoken fairly eloquently about the items. So is there anything you want to add?

It seems to me that there's a lot of concern about safety. I'm happy to address that in any way that I can. People aren't screened when they when they purchase a home or when they rent a home necessarily beyond Anything that's legal We would definitely do everything in our power to keep it to keep the integrity of the neighborhood intact, which is a reason why we bought that because Again in the future we like to see our kids use it potentially move there long term after the kids are out of school, which is why we're going to stay in Broken Arrow for the next at least six years until they can graduate with their friends. But again, open to do whatever I can within my power to help the folks in the neighborhood. It was discussed with the HOA president and some of the members on the board. I understand that there are some concerns. Again, just happy to do what I can within my power. Thank you.

Appreciate that. Thank you.

Well, I had a question.

Oh, do you have a question?

You don't mind? Would you consider an age limit like no one under 25? Absolutely. Some limiting factor like that?

Absolutely. And that's all stuff that I think 25 is pretty certain. I would definitely not go any lower than that. Again, trying to keep with somebody that's a little older, a little more mature. And again, making sure that the stipulations are there, that there are no parties, there are no get-togethers, things like that, in order to keep the quiet hours to keep from disturbing the neighbors and things of that nature.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Thank you.

Thank you. At this time, we close the public hearing and ask staff to present our alternatives.

Yes, ma'am. The alternatives tonight are to approve, defer, or deny the application. I think I'm remembering staff doesn't make recommendations on the short-term rentals.

All right. Thank you.

I think you know we don't we're not under the new guidelines that are going through now but they'll certainly can inform us as to some of the aspects of the decision and I think it's you know we've been doing a lot of us have been doing this a lot and so for quite some time it's always the same concern it's the rights of someone that buys a property what they want to do with it versus the impact on the neighborhood and and Hannah the young lady that objected spoke really well and really framed the things quite accurately to what we normally hear and those are valid points. I think though that you know when we consider what we're trying to do in the future The trade-off is that 20% to try and keep the character of the neighborhood intact. And so whether that's the right number or not, I don't know. But it's what we've learned from other places that the city has researched. So it seems like one out of a neighborhood like that wouldn't have a tremendous negative impact. So I guess that's kind of where I land.

I agree with that and I think that rentals that the owners are going to be spending a lot of time there themselves are going to tend to be kept up better. They're not going to be rented out as frequently and they're going to want to have good renters in their home as well. So I think that this is an ideal candidate for a STR. So with that being said, I would motion to approve the STR.

We have a motion. Do I hear a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second. We shall now vote. Motion passes 5-0. Next item on the agenda is a specific use permit, SUP 26-02. And we shall hear from staff.

Yes, ma'am. Tonight we're looking at a specific use permit for 211 North Perkins Road. This is in the shopping center just northwest of the Walmart on, there are two Walmart on Perkins. Older supermarket on Walmart, not the neighborhood market. So we're looking at two tonight. This is in shopping center number 16. So just explaining that up front so we don't get confused when we see the second one. This is in number 36. I said 16 a second ago. This is for a specific use permit at 211 North Perkins Road. This property is right here outlined in pink. What this is doing is it is a specific use permit for this one unit in the shopping center. As we can see with the area outlined in pink, this is on the east side of Perkins, south of Hall of Fame. Here's a street view which is from the parking lot looking north. This is the existing dispensary that is at this location. There's an existing specific use permit for the existing dispensary. The dispensary is changing hands, so now there's a new dispensary coming in. Since there's a new dispensary, it requires a new specific use permit, as that specific use permit is specific for that property owner and that use. So the use is continuing to be a dispensary under a different property owner, which is why we're before you tonight for a specific use permit. Here's the zoning map which does show the property is zoned CS or commercial shopping and the commercial shopping zoning districts Dispensaries are only allowed with a specific use permit.

I'm open to answer any questions if you have any Any questions for staff Thanks At this time I would ask if the applicant is here and I don't think so. OK. All right. So I'll open the public hearing and ask if there's anyone in the audience in favor of this item to please come forward. Seeing none, I'll ask if there's anyone in the audience who would like to speak in opposition to this item. Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing, and we shall hear findings and alternatives from staff.

Yes, ma'am. Your findings are that the Land Development Code allows for a medical marijuana dispensary in the CS or commercial shopping zoning district with a specific use permit. And your alternatives tonight are to accept, table, or deny the request. Staff recommends alternative number one, which is to accept findings and recommend that the City Council approve the proposed specific use permit as presented.

Thank you.

I make a motion to accept the permit and approve it as presented.

Second.

We have a motion and a second. We shall now vote. Motion passes 5-0. Next item on the agenda is a specific use permit, SUP 26-04. And we shall hear from staff.

Yes, ma'am. This is the second specific use permit in that same shopping center, the name of which I am forgetting. Rosewood Hills. There we go, the Rosewood Hills Shopping Center. This is unit number 17. This is on the south side of the Rosewood Hills Shopping Center, as we can see outlined in pink. Again, east of Perkins, south of Hall of Fame. The property right now is a beauty supply. So this is from the parking lot looking south. This is a license of an existing dispensary that is in Stillwater. So they're moving locations to this location if this specific use permit were to be approved. Here's the zoning map where you can see this property is zoned CS or commercial shopping. And I'm open to answer any questions if you have any.

Any questions for staff? Thank you. So we would give the applicant an opportunity to come forward. Do not see the applicant in the room, so we will open the public hearing and ask for anyone in favor of this item to please come forward. Seeing none, we'll ask if there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak in opposition of this item to please come forward. Sure. I believe we have too many dispensaries. If you want to just state your name and address for the record.

I am William Houdaway, 403 South Knobloch Street. I think people should generally be able to do what they want with their property, so I'm not that opposed to it. But we have an awful lot of dispensaries in Stillwater. Just wanted to put that on the record.

Thank you, sir. I'll ask if there's anyone else in the audience who would like to speak in opposition. Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing and ask staff to present findings and alternatives.

Yes, ma'am. The Land Development Code allows medical marijuana dispensaries in the CS or commercial shopping zoning district with a specific use permit. The alternatives tonight are to approve, table, or deny the request. Staff recommends alternative number one, which is to accept findings and recommend that the City Council approve the proposed specific use permit as presented.

Thank you.

If there's no discussion, I'll move to accept findings and recommend the city council approve the proposed specific use permit as presented. Second.

We have a motion and second. We shall now vote. Motion passes 5-0. Next item on the agenda is to receive public comment on the specific use permit, SUP 26-03. And we shall hear from staff.

Yes, ma'am. This is a specific use permit for 311 South Duck Street. This is to install an electric message center sign in the transect 5 or T5 corridor. The transect 5 of the corridor redevelopment area planning district, which is a bit of a mouthful. So here's the property, which is again outlined in pink. This is just south of the southeast corner of 3rd and Duck. Here's the street view, which is from the, let's see, this is from Duck Looking East. You see the existing building with the sign out front for Murray Law Firm. Here's an exhibit of the proposed sign, which does meet all of our EMC sign requirements. EMC is Electric Message Center. The code does have a list of requirements that includes, for example, the images have to be static images. They can't be like a story that continues every day. So we do have a whole list of requirements, all of which the applicant has agreed to meet. So here's the exhibit where we can see the Murray Law Firm on the top of the sign. And what we're looking at today is this EMC, Electronic Message Center, which is kind of the LED portion of the sign. Here's the zoning map which shows That's not the correct label.

It is t5 transect 5 of the corridor redevelopment area planning district I'm hoping to answer any questions if you have any So I don't think I quite understood what you're saying about it Changing so the sign will be the same consistently so or it can change but only on a certain basis and

Yeah, I have to pull up that section of code to be sure, but I believe it says that images have to be static and they have to be on the screen for at least eight seconds. So you can't have messages like a movie scrolling across the screen. It has to be static images that come and go.

some multiple images that, okay.

Yeah, you can still go through different images.

Gotcha.

Yeah, so you can still have different things coming and going on the screen. There's just requirements to make sure it's not distracting for drivers. We also have certain lighting requirements so that whenever it gets darker outside, the sign has to automatically dim. So these are just the requirements written into our code to kind of protect the sign, protect the people around the sign.

I'm sure you were not here when the code was written for this, but I'm curious. Actually, I know you were not here when the code was written for this, but I'm curious as to what was the purpose of not allowing these just by right when the code was written, and so why are we trying to limit electronic signs in this corridor?

Yeah, so the signs are based on the zoning district. The zoning district for this is the transect five of the corridor redevelopment area planning district. And the signs are regulated in that form-based code area based on the use, which in this case would be office. So we'd revert back to that office zoning district. To answer your question, I think the same reason there's a whole list of requirements you have to meet is the sign came out, the code came out I don't want to say when electronic message centers were created because they've been around for a while, but kind of when they started becoming more popular and more everyday use. So when you're reading through the different zoning districts where it's allowed, a lot of times it says like it's allowed by right, for example, in the CB or the CG, Commercial General Zoning District, except where it abuts residential where it still requires a specific use permit. office is a zoning district that is often time like our lowest intensity commercial uses so a lot of times the office is in more residential areas so that's I think the reason why that zoning district requires the specific use permit for the electronic message center or the LED sign I think the intent is just to not have the signs glaring into the residences around it just based on how it's treated in other commercial districts

I would agree with Henry on that explanation, and it is very common in other cities as well to have the same requirement of a specific use. So it's looked on a case-by-case basis, determining where it's located versus a residential neighborhood.

So mainly to prevent it negatively impacting residential areas, not necessarily to keep within a specific aesthetic within an area.

It can be both.

But you would say in our case, it's mainly for the impact of a residential, or it can be both?

I really think it's both.

Henry, could you elaborate on the area that's defined as transect T5?

Yes, ma'am. So I said yes too quickly. When you say elaborate, just kind of explain what type of county it is.

Explain what the boundaries of it are, so I could better understand.

Thinking, I don't, it's not very zoomed out very far, but okay, so basically the transect five, we have our form-based code area, which is the corridor redevelopment area planning district, which is to the east and south of campus. It goes to Main Street and then a little bit north of 6th, so it doesn't go all the way to 6th. West, it goes to around Cleveland. It goes a little further east of Cleveland. But that's the general areas that makes the little L around campus. The intent of it was to encourage redevelopment around those two areas. It's also the area where we were wanting to connect downtown to campus. So that's a core part of that area to connect those two districts. So in those districts, there's T5 and there's T6. T5 is primarily residential. Both of them are a mix of residential and commercial areas, but the T6 is the higher intensity, more commercial areas, and the T5 is the lower intensity, more residential, both of which allow multifamily by rights. So I say lower intensity just compared to the T6, but it's still a higher intensity area that does allow commercial uses like this office and stuff by right as well. So it's...

Allows a lot more innovative uses than you see in a lot of our standard zoning districts so I think you're touching on the thing that I Was kind of surprised to see the CS be as widespread as it is in here Knowing that this is is part of that form-based code and part of that was to have more mixed-use development have more pedestrian use try to get more walkability between campus and downtown and So in this CS commercial shopping, that's the transect five,

And I just want to correct you. This is incorrectly labeled. This should say transect five of the quarter redevelopment. Transect five.

So it's not commercial shopping. There is no commercial shopping. So sorry for that label. OK. So residential is used by right here.

Multifamily is used by right. Multifamily residential is used by right. Yes, ma'am. Single family I don't believe is allowed by right. I think it's allowed with potentially a warrant. But I know multifamily is allowed by right. So the higher intensity residential.

OK. That helps me a little bit. OK. Thank you. Any other questions for staff? All right. Thank you. At this time, we'd allow the applicant an opportunity to come forward and provide any additional information.

Good evening. I appreciate your time this evening. My name is Jamie Murray. I'm the owner of Murray Law Firm. I've been in this location since 2012. And that sign that's existing there has been there since 2012. And I love Stillwater. I've been here all my life, raised five sons here. And, you know, the whole purpose of this vision was I wanted to make it a community Baltimore, which means there's a lot of events that happen in town that no one ever knows about. And whether it's I'm a big softball fan, I wish you softball game or whether it's. You know, something at the Expo Center or whether it's something at Block 34, I wanted to make it a community bulletin board. And I want to make people aware of certain current events, current legal situations that may interest them. I know the Denyer family. He's here today. And I respect their family and they own property not only next to me here but also on Hester Street. And so I've known them for a long time. I respect their opinion. And I'm trying to basically make this a better property. Across the streets, the bank, it has a big sign, a lot taller than mine, but it has a message board on it. I would suspect eventually if the convention center ever goes in, just not too far from there, there will be a sign there as well. So I don't think this is going to be – it's not going to take away from anything. I'm not going to make the sign wider. It's just going to go – up a little more. I think it's going to be a good thing for the community. I think it's going to add to my property and I think it's going to add to the whole street eventually. I always like to see time and temperature, and there's not one on my street. And so we're just going to make it something that's going to be fun to watch, to look at. It's going to take a lot of, you know, I'm going to have to hire staff to help me do that because, you know, we're not going to play the same thing over and over. And I've always wanted to have a sign that on the 4th of July I can put a flag waving on that so people would know it's 4th of July. I think given the neighborhood across the street, down the street, I think there's a lot of signs like this. I think this is going to, you know, I've looked for a sign that's high quality, good service. The worst thing is to have a sign that doesn't work and looks terrible. And I've been assured there's some people out of Kingfish are going to install it and they have a good reputation. And so I'm optimistic that it's going to be a good investment for not only myself, but for the community as well. And I know that, I guess I get a time to talk after Mr. Denyer does, but I know they're concerned about light. They have some rental property just to the south of me. I like to buy it, but they don't want to sell it. And I know he's concerned about it might bother people at night, and that's a fair concern. that's a fair concern. I get that. I think there are some some things we can do to I think there is some requirements to tone down the sign after dark. So I don't think that's going to be an issue. I've never heard complaints about my other sign and from anyone and we've been good neighbors for a long time. So ever since I bought it 14 years ago, so I respect their opinion. I can understand their concerns and I think the The council, I mean the planning commission, should also consider their concern as well. You all have any questions of me?

I don't think the flag can wave.

It can't?

It doesn't sound like it. It doesn't have to be static.

Static. They can't wave?

They can't wave. Sorry. We'll just have to have a flag.

Just a flag.

I do have a couple of questions. You mentioned the sign you have now, and you're referring to the sign that's there now. It's lit at night, correct?

It's lit at night, correct. It goes off at probably 1 or 2, I don't know. I think it seems like it's on all the time, but I don't get up there really late at night anymore.

I don't go by that late, so when I drive by and it's dark, it's on.

Yeah, well, that's the whole point. Make sure people know where I'm at.

And then you did mention other signs in the neighborhood. I was trying to kind of do my own little search and assessment. So I know that there's one at the Presbyterian Church, one at the Methodist Church.

Banks across the street.

The bank across the street. Is it an electronic message board? I think it is.

Is it? I'm not sure.

Okay. I thought I saw messages there. They had put stuff on like interest rates and stuff like that.

Yeah, I think they do the interest rate change, but I didn't remember it being electronic.

Well, I'm disappointed. I'm going to have to rethink this if I can't have a waving flag.

Those were just my questions for you. Okay. And did you know of any others besides the bank and the churches?

Well... This is even smaller than I wanted, to be honest with you.

It's awfully big.

Well, it's smaller than I wanted because they have these rules that I don't necessarily agree with, but that's kind of what it is. But, you know, you go over to that meat place over on... Well, I shouldn't say this. I'm going to drop that in many things. Sorry, I won't say any more about that, David. Anyway, so no, this is, I get it. I mean, this is something different and new, but I don't think it's going to take away from neighborhood. I don't think it's, you know, and I want to be a good neighbor. And if Mr. Danube has some issues, I'm sure I'll work with him and take care of him. I'm in the student housing business too, so I appreciate that. So anyway.

Any other questions? Thank you.

Are you sure? I'm going to double check on this waving flag. That's un-American.

We'll let you check on it. I will.

I might have to get a, maybe I'll have to start a petition.

I'm sure you have the skill set to do that. So at this time, I would open the public hearing and ask if there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak in favor of this item to come forward.

I came here to oppose it, but after learning about the restrictions and the sign, sorry.

Oh, yeah. It's William 403 South Knobloch. My family owns the property to the south at 315 South Duck and 317 South Duck, and the one across Duck Street at 239 South Duck. I think the restrictions that you have in place addressed my concern, so I would support Randy's right to put his sign there. I didn't like the idea of animated images, but if he wants to have a waving flag on the 4th of July, I would not complain.

Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak on the subject of this matter? All right. Mr. Murray, is there anything else you want to say? I'll give you one more opportunity before I...

I'll only hurt myself, I'm sure.

You've learned a lot over the years.

True.

We'll close the public hearing and ask staff to present findings and alternatives.

one finding is that on the flag i will have to double check because i'm reading through the code and it doesn't actually say the eight seconds that was from a different code so we'll confirm we'll work with jamie uh mr murray um so the other finding is that the land development code allows electronic message center signs in the transect five zone of the quarter redevelopment area planning district with a specific use permit The other thing I double-checked was single-family being allowed in T5. Single-family and duplexes are allowed with a warrant. A warrant is a specific use permit type, except it is approved just by planning commission, so it's an easier specific use permit. It's allowed with some steps, not allowed by right, but multi-family is. So sorry. So moving on to the alternatives. The alternatives tonight are to approve, table, or deny the request. Staff recommends alternative number one, which is to accept findings and recommend the city council approve the proposed specific use permit as presented.

Thank you. Any discussion?

Yeah, I would like to say that I hope he gets to have a waving flag. I really do.

So I would offer that, you know, you can buy like a fabric, like real life flag that you could wave and light. It would be awesome.

I'm the founder of the flag service. I have two there every Fourth of July. Okay, I'm going to come by on the Fourth. All right.

Thank you for doing that. I like that. Thank you. Any other conversation or discussion?

I'd make a motion that we approve the specific use permit at 311 South Duck Street.

Second.

We have a motion and a second. We shall now vote. Motion passes 5-0. All right, the next item on the agenda is the meeting summary for review and possible action. We have the meeting summary from May 5th. Are there any additions or corrections to the submission?

I would motion to approve the minutes as presented.

Second.

We have a motion and a second. We shall now vote. Motion passes 5-0. Next item on the agenda is miscellaneous items from staff, planning commissioners, or the city attorney for discussional and possible action.

No items.

Our next regular meeting is scheduled for June 2nd. And the last item on the agenda is adjournment. Do I hear a motion to adjourn?

Move to adjourn. Second.

We have a motion and a second. We shall now vote. Motion passes 5-0. We now stand adjourned.