Public - workshop

We'll just give Commissioner Hughes and Commissioner Granger a couple more minutes. iPad 2, I trust that's you, Commissioner Hughes. Can you confirm, please?

I assumed incorrectly. Hey, Nevin, we're just waiting on Commissioner Granger and Commissioner Hughes. We'll get started in about 90 seconds.

Okay.

Okay.

Thanks.

All right. Well, we're going to go ahead and get started for July's CRA virtual workshop. And gave it a few extra minutes. Hopefully, Commissioner Hughes will be joining us shortly. But we're going to go over a presentation that we put together that kind of shows the projects and kind of the potential budget if we do move forward those projects with y'all's concurrence for FY27. The big difference from last month and... We were thinking that one or two of y'all wasn't on the call or maybe someone had to leave early when we did the virtual about a month ago. But anyway, though, be that as it may, there are some changes and updates to the presentation. We actually got our certified tax values from the property appraiser. So those numbers are updated in the presentation and thus now more accurate. And then we made some additional tweaks, Ms. Webb did, around AD Harris in that particular presentation. So we will go ahead and I will share my screen and go right into the presentation. If I am correct, You all see the full presentation, correct?

Yes, sir.

All right. I'm figuring this out. Awesome. Looks good. Yeah. So, all right. All right. Give me one second here. All right, so again, proposed projects for 2027 for our CRAs. you can take that that's fine all right so um the uh millville district uh preliminary budget uh expected revenue is uh 1.18 or uh rounded up to 1.19 million dollars operating expenses uh 752 000. uh carrie ford is still uh tbd so our project allowance for fy27 is roughly 427 thousand dollars And, again, this is an approximate outpending final budget approval from the CRA board.

419. What did I say? 420.

Oh, I meant 420. Sorry. Sorry. 420 for FY27. I combined that sentence into one. Thank you, ladies.

Do you want questions at the end of each district or after each slide, or how would you like to do that?

I would say at each district, we're going to give the respective CRA program manager a chance to add anything, and then we'll do Q&A based on each district, sir.

Got it.

All right. All right. So, again, proposed projects and programs for Millville, neighborhood evolution, pre-development study. You know, again, engage with them. This is what y'all have expressed a desire with some of these properties over in the middle area. So Craft Field, the Amerigas property, and then the Joe Robbins parcels, which are along Third Street. Again, this study would evaluate potential uses, conceptual site layout, zoning site considerations, and a preliminary financial feasibility. The Amerigas analysis would also explore a potential P3 for mixed-use commercial and residential development. with some shared public parking to serve both the development itself and overflow parking for the Millville Waterfront Park and the Snug Harbor boat ramp. Total estimated cost, again, with them is $57,000. And then also the... RSP grant program that was approved, looking at $200,000 for this. This would set aside FY27 funding for redevelopment site preparation projects in Millville, helping move opportunities identified through the study and other qualifying redevelopment projects towards implementation. Another project in Millville would be signed for Snug Harbor. Boat ramp is very popular. I think you all know that. But identifying that more clear from U.S. Business 98 is a desire and a potential option. And then, as always, $30,000 for World Changers, continuing the city's 11-year partnership with them. This will be a third consecutive year for projects in the Millville CRA district. And again, continue to build on that momentum that we have. And I believe that is it. So we will go back to that. So anything to add?

just at the carry forward, we have currently $535,000 that's kind of outstanding allocated towards grants for this fiscal year. And there's no pending applications right now, but to be determined, it's because we don't know how that's going to end. Whatever isn't used up for the Millville CPI grant and And our RSP grant for this year will be ultimately what carries forward to the next year, which could be put into more grant opportunities or identify another project as well.

Yeah. Any questions? Yep. All right.

Mayor Branch has his name. My hand up. Go ahead, Mr. Mayor.

Yes. Just clarification. The 752 operational expenses. I see the very bottom. I apologize. I'm on my phone. It's very tiny. It says 454 paving project. Can you jog my memory on what that paving project is?

Yep, so that's our ILA agreement we have with Public Works to fix a certain amount of distance of roads every year in the Millville District. And we committed to $450,000 every year for five years. This will be year two of that. So that's just in the operating because it's basically we're obligated to it. So it's factored into this operating expense summary. Okay.

Yeah, I totally agree. The numbers make sense. I would prefer if it's allowable for us to separate those line items because citizens' initial reaction to that is going to be, whoa, my goodness. So I think separating that out might give them more clarity and a little less hysteria from locals or people paying attention. I think that would be really good. Yeah. Yeah, we can break that down further.

In the proposed budget, it will be further broken out. Perfect. Here, it's all summarized just to kind of give you a snapshot of what is available.

That makes sense. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Commissioner Lucas?

Yes, thank you. Following up on that, have those roads already been determined that will be paved? Because there are a lot of them in both north and south of Business 98. So I'd like to know where those roads are planned for this next fiscal year.

So not all five years have been determined. I believe they definitely determined the first year, which was this fiscal year. And I'm pretty sure they have completed their decision for next year. But each year it's kind of reviewed again because some roads are becoming more damaged than others based on traffic.

and whatnot um so not all five years have been identified but there there is a report that says what's upcoming yeah and as a reminder we've got the roadway uh technology that they're using and they're in the process of getting that fully up and running which is going to take the pci or pavement condition index of all nearly 300 miles of roads in our city so that we you know really can attack these in the most objective manner as possible

So, Jonathan, can you have that report of upcoming? Yes, ma'am for for me when we meet on Friday.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. And then the other question U. S. 98 corridor between Sherman and East Avenue, especially need some love and attention. And as I'm looking at what's planned. For this year, there's not a lot. in that area. We're deep in the south side of Business 98 with the exception of the Amerigas property. Well, that's also on the south side, but that is along Business 98.

Can you tell me which stretch again? Did you say Business 98 from? From the east. Okay. So is it something specifically on the road and the sidewalks that would be the responsibility of FDOT or is it something else?

It's actually development. It's a lot of vacant property and would be a nice little area for promoting business development. there in that stretch.

All right. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's tough. I mean, happy to, to, to do everything we can, but again, that, that is some of those challenges are going to be because it is FDOT. So our ability to do certain things along that, like the immediate stretch and into the right away, all that is FDOT. But again, if there's anything specific, That needs attention. I mean, I know a gentleman sent me something today where there were some really bad sidewalks and something crazy happened. I think there was a washout and like he he hit his bike and and flipped over. So, I mean, there's like busted up curbs, overgrowth. If we feel there are buildings that have been abandoned, I'm happy to say, hey, you know, we can address those as a city. But I didn't know if it's if it's something you're talking about in the right away or actually city parcels.

these parcels that we that are identified to engage neighborhood evolution on are either city or cra owned parcels that's why you know kind of like the beck avenue parcels and what we're doing in st andrews so there there aren't any city or cra owned parcels along that us 98 corridor um I mean, so that's, you know, we have grant opportunities and I know Michelle has gone door to door, you know, along the corridor trying to push those out. But that's the reasoning why these were being brought forward was because they're within our control, those properties.

Yeah, I get that. This question is actually for Mayor Branch. Do any of your developer... Sources have ways for the municipality or the CRA to promote the development of private property. And I know that's a fine line, so.

No, I think that's a great question. It's almost, you know, there's a lot of along that Fifth Street corridor. There's a lot of vacant land and we could set aside. What I would want to do is go spend a whole bunch of money on something that can never happen.

Right.

But I think we could. There are people like John Anderson who could sketch something out for like a thousand dollars. that would add to their, their sales packet. And Robbie can maybe even add to that of like, what can we potentially give or help an agent within that area that would help them with their listings? Or maybe we shouldn't be helping them at all. I don't know. But you know, when I contacted a few of those people that didn't have aerial photos, they didn't have all these things that helped sell a property. So that's a great question.

I guess we could start by looking at what's in our Millville plan. at the very least we could promote that because it's the Dover cold plans did go you know a little more in depth with promoting what could be so and maybe a conversation with Becca Harden if there's anything that in that area that we could attract manufacturing

Yeah, you know, part of the hard part, there's just not a lot of businesses in that area, you know, past get you a box to about... the old dollar general is there's there's just not many things and um and so uh maybe there is some hesitation on investing in the area because people don't know what should go there what should be built laundromat daycare restaurant um office spaces i don't i don't really know and maybe maybe it would be wise or prudent for the uh cira to get some sort of I don't know how we'd get it, and maybe Robbie knows. I get some data that shows here's what needs to be there so we know how to attract people and get investors excited. Okay.

Yeah. Thanks. We can add this as a topic on our CRA board meeting for August. Is it 4th? Yes. Yep. So right on. All right. Commissioner Street, go ahead, sir.

Yeah, so I just want to make sure I understand. We haven't completed any paving projects yet. There's just money set aside for paving. Is that correct?

No, we've got a lot. I've sent a couple of emails out, flagging roads for y'all to go look at.

And that was in Millville?

Flag one. Yeah, one of them was, it was downtown north. Yeah, 12th and Louisiana. And then I feel like, Mr. Mayor, Commissioner Lucas, do you remember? I know I've sent one or two out.

12th Street for sure has been done. And I know I looked at something else, but I can't recall now exactly where they were.

And that was in Millville? It was.

It was in downtown North.

Yeah. What I'm asking is there's $500,000 that's been allocated and we haven't spent it yet. Is that my understanding?

You have not spent all of it. That is correct, sir. Absolutely.

That is correct. It's $450,000 and it's part of our agreement with Public Works. It will get transferred and spent this fiscal year.

But is there any work actually being done in Millville?

We'll have to find out.

And my question is, how do you take money out of Millville without having work complete in Millville?

The work is getting completed. It's scheduled. They're on course with their plan. It's getting done. There's a page on the city website. I'm struggling to find it.

Well, I said I'm 99.9% sure I emailed that as well. Mr. Mayor, Commissioner, did y'all see it?

What I'm asking, I'm going to rephrase the question again. There right now has been no pavement that has put down in Millville. Why would we transfer out of the CRA money?

The money hasn't been transferred yet.

If I said that, I misspoke.

Yeah, you guys just said you guys are going to be asking us to transfer it out because we allocated it this year. And so my question is, does it stay in CRA coffers until you've actually completed the work?

Yes, sir. I don't think we meant transfer it out in one big transaction on the morning of October 1st. I think it will be transferred out in order to pay for each project.

You guys aren't using Millville money to go pay downtown North? 100% no. That's what I was asking. You guys answered my question. My second question is what you guys know I'm going to ask is what's going on with the landscaping maintenance?

In Millville? In Millville specifically?

Yeah.

Our grants with FDOT just completed June 30th for Whittington Park. So that's now been transferred over to PCR to maintain, along with everything else that is part of the agreement for fiscal year 56 that we're obligated to until the end of the fiscal year.

You mean 26?

What did I say? 56. That's a long agreement. Yeah. But however, we are looking into outsourcing maintenance going into 27. And that was grouped in just summarizing of operating costs. It's more or less what we're paying PCR this year, but looking to spend those funds outsourced to another company for next year.

Okay. And then my next, so I'm assuming you'll show that to us in budget before we have something to approve.

Yes, yeah, the budget itself is going to be broken down much more than this summer presentation.

And no concerns about admin going over 20%?

No, sir.

Okay, good. Yeah, no concerns, correct, yeah.

No concerns. And if you guys – I know if you'd like to, right now the paving team is working over kind of behind Culligan, and is that – It's on 16th Street. It curves back around. If you'd like to go swing by and take a look at them in action as well and meet some of the folks, I know they'd welcome it. All right. Anything else on Millville? We'll go to St. Andrews. All right.

Now it's not. That's not yet.

All right, so St. Andrews preliminary budget, revenue $1,022,000. Operating expenses roughly $580,000. Carry forward $775,000. Potential loan $2.75 million. FY27 projects budget is $330,000. Again, approximate amount pending the final budget approval. If the loan is not approved, the entire FY27 project budget will be allocated to the boardwalk. And this does include $250,000 in paving for the St. Andrews area. The proposed loan, and again, only proposed at this time, loan and bond projects, Completion of all bond projects is by FY2028. Boardwalk at 1.5 million. This would replace the existing deteriorating boardwalk with a new wider 20-foot waterfront boardwalk that would provide a safer, more accessible, more attractive connection on the San Andres waterfront. Basically, the east side of San Andres of the St. Andrews Basin. Again, would be a great advantage in addition there for residents and visitors alike. Marina improvements, roughly half a million. And yes, we're also talking with the Miller family and being a huge part of this, possibly even covering the whole thing, but nothing's been confirmed yet. And so we do have this proposed at this time, but add a new marina pavilion and Commissioner Street, just as a quick aside, we did go in and I had them add that in the pavilion and the swings into the renderings for the uplands so that people know that we are fully committed to and have every expectation to putting that back in. But again, Part of the redevelopment scope, it's not part of it. So that's why we as a city have that responsibility. And it's kind of in that southwest corner of the LDOT would be a footprint that we as the city are responsible for. So, again, very similar with the huge pavilion. What it actually looks like is still TBD. Sweetbay Park, roughly 300,000, install a new playground at Sweetbay Wetlands Park to expand recreational opportunities for families and children. Again, neighborhood amenity, encouraging outdoor activity and creating more welcoming space. Lisenby Avenue sidewalk, this is being designed in-house. It is already nearly designed. I think she's around the 90% mark. This is to fix Lisenby Avenue from 15th Street north to 23rd Street. uh to make it more safer um specifically 15th to 17th because 17th to 23rd already has sidewalks but we're looking at that the two blocks closer to 15th to improve pedestrian safety visibility and then connectivity uh in this very high priority corridor so uh working on that and um hopefully um I believe that is going to happen in the next six months or so, maybe six to nine months at the most. I know we've kind of jumped back. This is the War II part of St. Andrews. And then underground utilities, the utilities on Chestnut Avenue from 12th to 11th, and then 12th back to back. This is basically the undergrounding part. Of that now, I want to say we're potentially looking at using some of the grant to cover some of that. We're working on that with the grant folks right now. As you all know, but specifically Commissioner Street, you know that the diesel property chestnut parking lot came in about roughly $200,000 less than we're expecting. But the red backwards F on the screen is what we're going to underground, as well as one other pole right across the street in between Slice House and Sun Jammers. For some reason, it's the one pole that didn't get undergrounded over there. Redevelopment planning and incentives, we continue to use Neighborhood Evolution, RSP grant for 200, additional sidewalks and curbs in areas to, again, enhance pedestrian safety, neighborhood connectivity, especially as we're adding a lot of these parking enhancements and expansions in the downtown St. Andrews area. And then U.S. 98 landscaping, install landscaping improvements along U.S. 98 from the bridge back to Collegiate Drive and from the Hathaway Bridge to Beck Avenue. FDOT-funded project will improve the appearance of a major gateway into our city coming in from the west. And here are the potential proposed five-year project plans. I don't know if you want to go through these, Michelle.

Yep. So the top is just how we would, preliminary ideas of how to spend a loan or a bond if we do that. I know that some of the parks need redone. So there's Sweet Bay Wetlands Playground. It doesn't have to be Sweet Bay. It could be changed to no park or it could be changed to Improving Oaks by the Bay, which is a premier park of the city that does have a lot of work that needs done to it. And then If we were to do the loan, it would free up some of the reserves for the boardwalk that we've been setting aside. And that would allow us to do some of the work you see listed in white below where it's street signage, custom street signage. There's an appetite for having a unique look to the business district there and to spread it as far as we can afford. The FDOT grant, that hasn't been approved by FDOT yet, but if it were, it would cost the CRA exactly $60,000 for that. And then just making sure that in the new expansion areas that we do sidewalk and curb improvements of at least $50,000 every year for the next five years. And then we've got that four-year commitment for the paving starting next year that would happen. And then however much money is available, continue to promote demolition, site prep grants, facade improvement grants, whatever grants we could get to also continue to clean up the area.

All right.

So that is... Do you want to come back to St. Andrews? Yep.

All right. All right. Any questions on St. Andrews? Go ahead, Commissioner Lucas.

Can I say one thing real quick? Sure, go ahead. One more important thing to note. If we don't move forward with the loan, there is no project budget for fiscal year 27. It will all be obligated to the paving contract and the boardwalk obligation.

All right, Commissioner Lucas, go ahead, ma'am.

As we move into fiscal year 28, I guess, is when we start budgeting for or planning projects for the extended area's of the St. Andrews CRA?

No, ma'am. These revenue projections here include the new CRA expansion for St. Andrews. I believe it's around $130,000.

Yes, and the paving that we start in fiscal year 27, which is $250,000, is in those expanded areas.

Yes, so the St. Andrews district is expected to receive about $120,000 $130,000 from that expanded area for fiscal year 27. So these revenue numbers include that. Yes.

Oh, okay. Okay. Good deal.

Go ahead, Commissioner String. It's fine.

Yeah, a couple questions. One was what you just answered on the I'm sorry, guys. I just completely forgot what my question was. We do it all the time, sir. We do it all the time. I cannot remember what it was.

Can you go back a slide really quick?

That'll refresh my memory. Oh, that's Velvel. Yeah, keep going. Or maybe it's forward a slide.

It is. Hang on. Let me minimize this. Brandy, what did you do?

I tried to see them.

It wasn't Marina.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. OK, here it was. This was my question. So Sheila sent us all an email talking about NSP funds being eligible for CBDG or community block development grant purposes. Me personally, I would love to see those program dollars as well as the the community block development grant dollars. Program similar how we did before program together in synergy sidewalks is eligible use for Community block development funds. And so it seems to me that it would just make sense for us to plan this stuff together.

Yeah, to maximize our project. I will add, since we're talking about a bond or a loan and our financial advisor agrees with us, but if we do want to move forward with the loan and decide that, our recommendation would be to wait until after November. to see if the property tax bill passes, and if it does, what the impacts to the CRAs will be. Our property appraiser, I did reach out and ask if he knew what the impacts would be for the CRA districts, and he does not currently have that information to share. But before we lock ourselves into a bond or loan for debt service, I think we want to know

um what that impact would be on the cras yeah i would i would just like to see those dollars included in our budgetary process i've never in this entire time that i've been on the commission gotten to to you know program community block development grant funding it's always been reactionary you guys bring us something i'd like to be proactive

I too would love that because I know that CDBG-DR grant doesn't do sidewalks when we're doing infrastructure. So the fact that we could use CDBG normal block grant to do sidewalks would be awesome in LMI areas for sure. A hundred percent.

Yeah.

At least that's what made me think of that. That's it. As far as we talked about moats, I know that's part of the bonding issue. I'd like to have a further conversation on that before we commit to any kind of physical improvements to that area. And then Sweet Bay, that one got pushed forward because CPAR wants to adopt that park. And so we need to engage with CPAR and see how much they're willing to contribute towards that project. Projects that people are willing to contribute to, hey, push them forward. But if we've got to do it all on our own, I don't know that that's the number one priority right this second.

I believe we all would agree, sir. Yeah, we're all shaking our heads. All right, Mr. Mayor? Yep.

Yes. A couple, I think all the projects are great. I am a little worried that we haven't fully gotten the Sandy Marina back online. And we potentially might need something extra for that that we're unaware of or something beautiful for that. We also have large amounts of property in the new corridor of the CRA, including your CPAR, where the old canopies was. And I'd like to see us hold back a little bit of the money to ensure that if those opportunities come around, that we are not left without options. That's my little concern there. There was one other point I wanted to make before Josh forgot his line.

Go ahead. While you're thinking, Mr. Maris, you mean like, for example, if someone wanted to develop in there and take advantage of a TIF rebate or something, is that what you're thinking?

There are situations where often the developer wants to add a public amenity, like additional waterfront access, and they say, oh, well, I want to do this, and I need you to come in with some cash for this additional thing. Not an insurmountable amount of money, 100 grand, something like that, or even looking at those pieces of property or other ones in that area and continuing to keep a vision for those and using neighborhood evolution. for those properties. I do agree about the CDBGB money in those parks. There was some other comment about St. Andrews I forgot. Oh, I remember. The publishing museum, the pre-museum down in St. Andrews needs windows to be reglazed and they also, Nancy would love to see, and I agree with her, to see moonlighting in the park under the oaks. So I want to make sure that Nancy has a seat at the table to voice her opinion.

Isn't that in the works already?

Yes. So I actually just discussed this with her earlier today too. Again, if we don't get a loan, there is no project budget because we're obligated to the paving and the boardwalk. But if we do get the loan, that carry forward of 775 you see there, is now freed up, not the entire thing, but considerably, which can allow us to then possibly take on an extra project of the $100,000 lighting at Oaks-By-the-Bay or the $40,000 reglazing of the museum windows. Um, it's, it's just all contingent on whether we get that loan or not, because there is no money to do anything for the next year.

Yeah. The lighting in McKenzie park has, it was a test and, um, I'd love to see, I know this is a separate district, but my point is lighting and parks changes at night. We have people now that were sitting in the swings on like first dates or they're just sitting there swinging at night, watching the, uh, Watching the lights change in the trees. And so it does help to activate a park and then kind of deter bad activities with good activities. So I would love to see that project happen. And then I was told also bonding will help us extend our CRA timeline too.

If we are bonded past our sunset date, then the CRA would still continue to pay those debt obligations. But these loans that we've gotten debt service schedules on go out 15 years. And so that would be 2041. And our CRA is currently sunset in 2044. So if we bonded 20 years, it would continue. That is correct.

Got it.

But I guess the feedback we need from the board is, you know, do y'all like the bond or the loan and to be able to do all of these projects? Or is that not a good idea? You do not like that? Do you want us to wait till after the property tax vote in November to determine that?

I would prefer waiting till November to know. Yeah.

So in budget prep though, should we present a budget with the loan?

Yes, I'm in favor of bonding.

Let me ask this question. Are you guys, what is the debt carry on that loan? That's not a massive loan for the CRA. It's basically twice revenue a year.

Yeah, it would be about $265,000 a year for St. Andrews CRA.

So out of a million dollars, we'd lose $200,000.

270, 270-ish.

Well, there's no way the property tax is going to affect that much. But I like what Alan brought up where it's like, you should be doing 20 years. So what is it on 20 years? Is it half that?

Our financial advisor told us that the loan market doesn't like to, the banks usually don't like to go out past 15 years on loans. If we do a bond, we could go further and I would have to get those debt schedules from him.

How long does a boardwalk last? Let me ask that question.

The life of a boardwalk? I'm not sure.

Well, I mean, you can borrow against the useful life of it. So if it's 20 years, that makes perfect sense. A 20-year loan on a playground piece of equipment, I'm a little iffy on that. But the boardwalk... pavilion, things like that that are physical assets, for sure.

I don't have any problem with, you know, doing a longer term loan on that.

But in favor, I'm in favor of the bonding. I do agree maybe being a little prudent, but if you guys can get the loan payment down enough and reduce the risk, you know, you'll have more program money to go do other things with.

Yeah. Awesome. All right. Commissioner Granger.

Yeah, thank you. I'm in favor of not borrowing money we don't have. But I'd rather wait until we have an idea of what November looks like. I'm fine with it if you want to put it on the budget moving forward because we don't have to take the loan. We don't have to enter it. But I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to get a budget squared away for fiscal year 27. So if you need to put it on the budget so that it's there, I'm fine with that. But I wouldn't want to execute on it until after we figure out what happens in November and know what our numbers look like.

Got it.

Go ahead, Commissioner Lucas.

Is this a situation where if we don't have it budgeted, we can't go for a loan during the year?

No, that's more about the projects than it is.

Yeah, no, we still could. But I think it's just having, you know, if we in the budget, if we present the projects, like Michelle said, if we don't pursue the loan. you really are left with $330,000 that is gonna all go to the boardwalk. If we do pursue the loan, then we're gonna show $2.75 million worth of these other projects we've gone over. But we could just put in the budget, we could budget for what we know, and then after November, we can then decide to do a loan, then we could go do a budget amendment. for the loan proceeds and everything.

What's that budget amendment process entail?

It would just go to the city and the CRA to amend the, just like we do for the city commission now, we would take it to the city commission to amend the budget for the CRA and also the CRA board.

So the county would not have to weigh in?

I'm sorry, no, the county, I don't believe the county does.

I don't believe they would either.

Thank you.

All right. All right. Downtown North. Preliminary budget, $1.4 million in revenue. Operating expenses are $9.89. AD Harris expenses are $78.6. I think that's predominantly around air conditioner units.

Sure. just the budget for the budget gotcha um the uh repairs that are going to be going up or should be taken out of the carry forward that would that that's what affected the carry forward we would normally have more but we have plans we have to expenses that we have to address

All right. Carry forward $250,000. Again, includes $250,000 paving contract for downtown north. And then FY27 anticipated TIF rebate incentives. Approximate amount only for the, you know, for the carry forward pending some AD Harris deferred maintenance costs that we have in regards to the HVAC units. And I think you said how many units are the facility?

$35,000. 35 units, yeah. And then there's also a very large plumbing issue that we're having to address.

So we're getting some more information. This is something that has just very recently come up, and we're working through that. Again, as always, this is an approximate amount pending final budget approval. uh deferred maintenance we've got again plumbing and hvac issues uh at a.d harris and then uh also uh rebuild bay uh the management agreement we're entering the third year of the five-year management agreement with rebuild bay they continue to either meet or exceed the project milestones while advancing the vision of a comprehensive resilience center serving the greater panama city area list local initiative support corporation This is something that was approved yesterday at the commission meeting. And so we'll be establishing a formal partnership with them, guidance and assistance with redevelopment efforts in the greater Glenwood area, project boots, and then helping address the heirs property issue. Still 704 East 15th Street. Again, planning and development of the newly purchased vacant parcel there at the southeast corner of East 15th and MLK Boulevard. Seeking community input will help identify preferred uses. I think the biggest one, the big use that everyone does agree on is shifting that gate over into that foot put somewhere for entering into the MLK facility. And then the corridor reduced redevelopment barriers, stormwater infrastructure planning, infrastructure incentive programs, and then the RSP grants that were approved. So we'll go back on that. And anything to add, Lena?

Um, just to explain a little bit more about the 80 Harris, uh, maintenance deferred maintenance. As Jonathan was explaining, these are issues that. Have recently kind of come up, um. Rebuild Bay has been dealing with them as smaller issues as they've come along, but they've been reoccurring. And then with a recent, um. issue that we had with the hot water heater in the cafeteria and having to replace that, we found that the piping is cast iron, it's corroded, severely corroded. So we do know that the cafeteria and the restrooms that are just outside of the cafeteria all need to be replumbed. We're working on getting a camera inspection of the pipes so that we can determine any further damages or repairs that are needed and then make a plan for getting those corrected as well. And then one by one as the heat rises, our HVAC systems are not being able to handle the heat and not cooling correctly. So we are looking at, and also looking back, I didn't see any current routine maintenance that had been done on it. So we think that that might be the kind of the biggest problem is they just need to be maintenance. So we did have somebody come out today and we determined there are 35 units on campus. They're going to be testing those to see what issues there are and then see about getting a regular maintenance plan started for that. Also wanted to add, though, on good news on the A.D. Harris front, Donna was able to acquire another grant today to help with her food distribution in the pantry that they have going now. And we are looking at a grand opening date of the resiliency center in October. So we really want to be able to show the community what has been done so far and what services are going to be offered there.

Let me, my mouse is being really finicky. All right. Any questions? Commissioner Lucas, you look like you're ready to say something.

Oh, no, just kudos. The A.D. Harris project is coming along very well. I'm looking forward to the open house and the difference that it's going to make in the community.

Great. Hey, I had a quick question. Yes, sir. And this I'll just care about today. I had a man on Facebook ask me about tennis courts. And I sent Jonathan an email.

Ask you? I saw the video. Yeah. We won't use your nickname, Mr. Mayor.

Yeah, that's okay. I've been called worse. But I didn't know if there was an appetite of looking at, you know, the rec is an amazing facility, heavily used after school. If there was a way to put in a lot of these nets for pickleball and stuff are not even attached to the ground. And would we maybe be able to use that basketball court using CRA funds and retrofit it for daytime use on weekdays for tennis and pickleball?

The outside basketball court?

That's a good question. I don't know.

There's something we could definitely look into.

I mean, I know there are fence restrictions. I know it's right there in the gateway.

Or is there another place we could put one down somewhere?

The corner lot, no one seems to really want to make it a parking lot, even though parking is needed. You could put a 10-foot fence. It'd have to be a little bit nicer because we really don't want chain link right along there. But I mean, that's a potential option.

I think I'll definitely get with Keith and see what, you know, and JVM. Yeah. So. I'm sorry.

But this is a good segue into a broader question for y'all. That's not necessarily CRA related, but I think the CRA could find a way to potentially partner in it. But. I know is correct me is Oakland Terrace now in. OK, it's to the it's to the south of it. OK. Anyway, though, as you know, the tennis courts, Keith talked about this at one of our recent budget meetings. The tennis courts at Oakland Terrace are basically shot. And what I mean by that is it's it's you know, it's not a matter of simply going in and doing like a quote, a surface repair project. The base is. is needing to be rebuilt. So whether we put it back there or whether we put it somewhere else, you're not really gonna save any money by putting it immediately back there with the exception maybe of the perimeter fence itself. So I know he floated the idea of making kind of like the old Chapman Park, um, you know, kind of a, a courts place, um, potentially utilizing some of that, uh, and then, and then, uh, put a, another baseball field at Oakland Terrace, uh, in, in place of, um, I don't know if we talked about in the corner that we purchased, uh, or, or over where the tennis courts were, but one would be a new baseball field for kiddos and the other one would be parking. Cause when you add a baseball field like that, you'd need more parking for it. I'd be curious just to, again, very high level, you know, what are some thoughts from the board on that?

What about even looking at, and just giving it to the Neighborhood Evolution folks, looking at the way to activate the, we call it Amerigas, but it's the property behind the wastewater treatment plant, saying maybe it could be a building where people are living or whatever, but maybe it's,

between now and the eventually one day that sewer station moving away it's pickleball tennis courts and maybe it's a cra project that's not a bad idea that's actually a great location because that land right there we can't build vertical yeah but we could put that's why at one point we had proposed the bicycle safety village there because we could do little paths and pavement But we just can't build vertical. So it would be a really great location for pickleball courts. And tennis courts. Yes, and it could accommodate plenty of them.

I would wonder, too, if there's not a surface that you could put on that where you could use it. I hate to say a parking lot occasionally if you don't want to tear it up. Is there something you can lay down where it's a once every six-month parking lot for an event? I don't know.

I would say I'm not an engineer, but I think the base for foot traffic in humans is probably much less than for vehicles. So it would probably be a lot more expensive to make it worthy of a vehicle. Commissioner Street?

Yeah, so maybe I misunderstood the idea when Keith presented it. Is he just trying to move the tennis courts into a CRA so we have funding to build them?

Is that the thought? I'm only bringing this up right now in the CRA setting because the mayor talked about tennis. But, no, his thought was we really could use a second little league or I say little league tennis field at what we call – they call it – yeah, but they call it like – P.C. Central or Mid-City. Mid-City could use another field. And because the tennis courts are shot and there's really only room for that, we could move that somewhere else, either Chapman Park on Lisenby or the mayor's idea of the old Amerigas. where you built something much bigger with more tennis courts and pickleball courts. And I don't know how big that building is, but you could potentially put maybe even one pickleball court inside Chapman Park and keep it quiet. That was the thought. I just brought it up because you're all together.

Yeah, yeah. But when I asked Keith – I said, what's the cheapest option to get tennis courts back in our city that are good? The Oakland Terrace Tennis Court was. They're already stormwatered. They have lighting. They have fencing. Even though the base is bad, it's still not as expensive as going and engineering and creating something brand new. I don't want us to get caught in what we term it as... pie in the sky thinking and forget about the the wind that's like right in front of us if that makes sense

Right. And look, I also understand Oakland Terrace is much more centrally located than, you know, either Lisenby and 390 or all the way over in Bilbo. I understand that, too.

I'm not fighting to keep tennis courts at Oakland Terrace. I'm just saying, like, if expense is an issue, I think that's why it hasn't gotten it done. I don't know how making the budget bigger is going to is going to help us get across the finish line.

It's good. It's good feedback, Commissioner Idea Crusher.

look i watch john's videos too and they're really funny i'm sorry alan but but i mean to his point like we we said for like three years in a row we bought those temporarily that was 350 000 it was only supposed to be there for two years max and now we're sitting here at like year four and so um I don't know what the fix is, but I did have one of the tennis guys say we could get grant funding if we remove the pickleball courts. So maybe we need to go find a different place for pickleball so we can get funding for tennis. That's also an idea that we could do. Yeah.

Well, and keep in mind, we are doing those pickleball courts, potentially, I think two of them at Truesdale, 60 by 120, right? The slab or is it 60 by 60? We're doing the 60 by 60 foot slab at Truesdale.

Yeah. So, I mean, as long as there's options, but it is true. Pickleballers and tennis players hate those grid things, especially when it's humid in the morning, you slip and get hurt. So anyway, so if there's a way for us to compete for some funding or something like that, that would be great, even if it changes the design. And if we can compete funding elsewhere and we can go and build it from scratch, that's fine, too. I don't care. But I do think we're going to continue to hear from John until we actually fix it.

Yeah, I agree. All right. Well, let me. Is this. All right, downtown, preliminary budget, FY27 is $626,000. Operating expenses, $266,000. Carry forward, $275,000. Again, the carry forward includes FY27 anticipated RSP and TIF rebate incentive distributions. And as always, this is an approximate amount pending final budget approval. Project allowance for downtown district is $635,000 roughly for next year. so again marina redevelopment um you know the redevelopment project represents a potential opportunity for the cra to leverage its investment in the marina it paid for as a reminder the cra funds paid for the visioning and master planning process and while the downtown cra does not have the financial capacity to fund the full degree development of the marina cra participation could serve as a catalyst to attract and maximize additional funding sources so grants, P3s, other state or federal investments. Dover Coal Partners has presented the following approach. Again, this is for y'all's consideration. I know we remain committed to the first 50 slips being underway first, but We did pay Dover Coal to lay this out for us. So this approach positions the park and informal amphitheater as the primary catalyst project to begin to unlock the site value, test demand, and then support broader phase development at a minimal upfront cost.

um that's it that was easy for downtown uh lena anything you want to add this one again is um largely dependent on if we go with the loan or a bond to how much we can and cannot do and how quickly we can do it but we believe that the focus of the funds for downtown really just need to focus on the marina and getting that developed and attracting those p3s and other development opportunities that we can do Debra Cole's approach with the they said it's an informal amphitheater, but they described it more as having like a portable stage. That way we can move it in different areas of that green space to see what would work best if we wanted to put a permanent one there. Um, cause I know there was a lot of talk of in discussion about which way it needed to face and how it would best work. Um, so I just need direction on which way we want to go. And if we're in favor of going with a loan or bond on this.

Thank you, Lena. Mr. Mayor.

Yes. Um, I want to really put a pause on, uh, us paying for amphitheater. especially when we haven't gotten, we may need to come in with some money for railing or lighting or benches or sprinklers or landscaping or signage or Benches and pavilions, I think the vast majority of citizens want those spaces back before building new ideas, especially before the timing of us not getting Martin Theater off the ground. I think we should have that before we even discuss amphitheater stuff is my personal opinion. And I think the amphitheater could be – I just already discussed it with Jennifer Vigil. It could be a TDC project. It could be a P3. And I'd like us to really look at CRA money not as the bells and whistles of the cool stuff. It's putting the marina back. And I know we have some FEMA money, but I really want us to see us put the marina back in the usual spaces and even potentially having the eastern basin planned out. We still have to build a breakwater. We've got to engineer that. There's still a lot of stuff left to do. There's a ship store and public restrooms and all those things. Before we start talking about the cool stuff, I think citizens want to see us hitting singles and doubles before we do another cool project on the downtown marina.

So, I mean, just like with St. Andrews, we did get some numbers that we could we could we did loan for 15 years. We could we can't ask them for bond and what our capacity would be for 20 years. But it would be around two point five million dollars that we could loan or do a loan with the downtown. The debt service on that would be more around like two hundred and forty thousand dollars. But again, same as St. Andrews, we don't think we have as much homesteaded property in the downtown district. So we don't think the impact of the property tax would affect downtown as much as it may affect St. Andrews. But we don't know what that looks like yet. Yep.

I would much rather see, I want to see us borrow bond, whatever loan, whatever. I think that's a great idea. I'm hesitant on using the money for amphitheater. If you said we're going to use that money to pay for 50 more slips or the railing and this and that, or the infrastructure and this, I would say yay or pavilions or, or, you know, anything that's in the Dover coal plant out in the T dock. I want to see us hitting singles and doubles before we do another beautiful project.

Got it. Mr. Street.

Oh, add 1 thing. There's something I want to make sure everyone is tracking and aware of. You know, I know we, we got the proposal from Catherine shores and Jason on the breezeway property for 47 Harrison. That is set to close August 15th. I believe. It's sometime in, I think they have until sometime in August to close. We don't know if that will happen or not. But if it doesn't happen, that's still something that is that property, you know, this downtown CRA is currently paying for expenses on the breezeway until that closes. And if it doesn't close, if that doesn't go through, then we'll have to consider what we're going to do with that property long term.

Was it, I guess, October. I thought it was October 1st. I remember it being.

Go ahead, Commissioner Street. Yeah, I mean, to what Alan was saying, I mean, on the breezeway thing, if they don't close, I'm sure there's a bunch of people that would take the property for free. So I don't know. I don't know that I'm super concerned about us having to carry that very long. The question is whether they'll do what we wanted them to do and building it out. Yeah. The one thing I would say to what Alan's point was, it's really on prioritization of how we get to where we're going. If we did 50 more slips, well, that's 50 more slips of revenue. And, you know, by investing any dollars in those, I mean, we know right now it's like... $3 million for 50 slips. Well, we could do another 50 with what you just talked about in bonding. So I think, I think really the only question is not to bond. It's just what you spend the money on. I think that's it. And frankly, the CRA shouldn't have to carry it. I would assume that the slip rentals would carry part of that note.

So it would even be less than that.

So that's just the thought that I had, what you guys were talking.

Okay.

on my screen is really acting up all right is commissioner hughes on here me and show and

Yeah, Commissioner Hughes, he came in for a little bit. He was having some technical difficulties. But I don't know. That's kind of where we're at now for looking for FY27. Lots of great feedback. Really appreciate it.

The breezeway is October 30th.

Breezeway is closing October 30th. So still got a few months on that. So any other questions or comments of the CRA world?

Yeah, I want to just thank the staff. I've gotten multiple people in our Sierra districts who said the staff has on their own reached out to them and communicated grants and what we can offer them in those areas and followed up on paperwork. And I hugely appreciate that. That is a big deal. Thank you.

That goes to Lena and Michelle.

to mention get you a box oh yeah yeah the millville grant that we did for commercial property improvements um get you a box applied and was approved and they are celebrating their improvements on saturday uh from six to nine pm so i definitely encourage people to stop by and check out um what we were able to help them accomplish to to improve A little bit at a time, trying to improve that corridor over there.

I love it.

Thank you. It looks really good.

Yeah, it does look great.

I saw great coverage online about that. Got goofy, goofy snapshots of me and Hughes. So I don't know what we were doing. We were doing stuff. We were doing, it was really windy out there. It was so.

Did we, and this kind of, sorry, I'm going back to Millville real quick. Did we learn anything? I mean, I don't really know. I'm just kind of the post-mortem of the rock and roll event that was down there. Are we going to, I would love to see that group do more shows. Would love to be curious of what they learned or how we could help them do more or other groups. You know, when we build facilities, we want them used. I want that amphitheater or the doors that don't exist blown off of them used so much.

Do you get any feedback? I did get some feedback.

I think early on what I heard was I think there was like trying to charge for the first event. And then eventually it was like, you know, city staff and their families were able to attend and maybe even county staff. I can't remember. But that was really last minute. So I think, you know, a lot of times people might have already had plans. But what other feedback did you get?

The organization that ran it said it went very well. The event space worked perfectly, the electrical capacity, all of that. I attended it myself and it was a really nice setup, especially with the sun setting in the background. It was phenomenal. It was very well organized. I definitely hope that that organization continues to have more, which they did say immediately after that they plan to do. So hopefully that happens.

I'm sure the restrooms being finished will help too. When are they expected?

I think 30 to 45 days. That's kind of what we're looking at.

August. The one thing I will say though is that just, you know, parking was kind of an issue. We had a lot of people having to park in the kitty corner, like Amerigas area. And that's really, it needs improved tremendously. So if we could get that done sometime in the near future, I think it would help more events at that park.

Could we come in there and maybe just around the entire perimeter up against the road do straight in parking? Like we kind of do down close to the quote entrance. And I mean, you're just talking about, I mean, you know, it's. what, 15 feet deep and you just wrap it all the way around? I mean, that could add, you might have the engineering division maybe just pencil that out.

I know they've sketched before because we have a parking and right across from where you're talking about, we can accommodate parallel parking. And then after that, we kind of get into that territory where we're now discussing maybe it could be tennis courts or it could be part of a bigger P3 with a shared parking lot. It could become parking space.

Yeah, I would challenge staff, not just CRA staff, but challenge all departments of staff of how we become great collaborators with the spaces that we have and people who want to use them. all the parks, all the facilities. How do people, how do we best promote the things that we have, the things that the citizens of Panama City own that we take care of? How do we get those out to people who want to host concerts and soccer camps and basketball leagues or whatever the things are? And I don't really have that answer, but that's what we should be doing. And I think we're doing a good job of it, but we really want these, there's no point of having facilities that people aren't using them.

I agree 100%. Commissioner Street?

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, and I think the collaboration piece is a really important part of that equation because a lot of times we can look at facilities and just say, we just need to program more stuff, more stuff, more stuff. No, we just need to make our environments as friendly as they possibly can because there are a lot of people in our community that want to do stuff. And so I agree. Nothing makes me more irritated than vacant facilities. It drives me insane. And so I would just say, yeah, anything we can do to be more collaborative, how we can do it, reduce the cost, whatever it is. But, you know, that doesn't have to be us programming everything.

All right. One thing we could do to that park is add some electrical like for food trucks to line up so they don't have to use generators that then conflicts with the noise that the concert or event people are trying to do. I don't know what that looks like cost wise yet, but it could definitely be a good improvement that would help events take place there.

Well, we have some savings in the budget from that project, right?

We do. We came under budget at about $200,000. What?

Round of applause on that one. Under budget. Nice work. Yes. Love it.

But we can maybe look to do some of that stuff with that money.

That would definitely help the organization's planning events there.

Love it. Yeah, maybe. And I'll work with Kristen maybe in my my monthly managers meeting meeting video. I think we're recording it next week. I can maybe even shoot it from the Millville amphitheater and and work that in as part of the narrative. Not from the playground.

I'm making a motion. Jonathan appears only in videos where he's in a swing looking adorable in his little swing.

Yes. Well, at least I didn't put my hands up like that. You got to be a little masculine. All right. Anything else, gang? All right. Thank y'all. Have a great evening and we'll see y'all soon.

Tomorrow.

Oh, yeah. Yes. We'll see you tomorrow at 430. And I know, Mr. Mayor, you'll be virtual. So. All right. Y'all take care.

Have a good evening.