Town Council - Regular Meeting

like to welcome everybody to the May 14th, 2026 town council budget workshop. be looking to go into close session pursuant to 143 31811 A6 to consider the qualifications, competence, performance, character, fitness, condition of appointment or condition of initial employment of an individual, public officer or employee or prospective public officer or employee or to hear or investigate a complaint, charge, or grievance by or against any individual public officer or employee. Do I have a motion to go into close session? I'll make that motion. Do I have a second? I'll second. Any discussion? All in favor? All right.

Do I have a motion to come out of close session? Make a motion to come out of close session. Do I have a second? I'll second. Any discussion? All in favor? I Welcome everybody to the May 14th budget workshop. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Conflict interest. Any member have a conflict of interest in regard any member of council have conflict of interest of or the appearance of a conflict interest in regards to any item on the agenda? If so, please state at this time.

I do not. No. No. No. No. All right. Moving on. Approval of the draft agenda. Do I have a motion to approve this draft agenda? Um, I need to make sure that council comments have been added under public comments because on my sheet it's not on there. Do we know if that's been added? No, but we'll add it. That's We can add that if it takes vote. Anything else? All right. If not, we'll have uh council comments under we'll actually start it before the public comments. So, it'll be five. We basically going to say that that'll be six. Seven will be public comments. Now, anything else? Do I have a motion to

I don't understand. We're going to have public comments first and then we're going to have council comments. Have council comments first. Council comments first. Okay. Does it be after you want it after? I think it needs to Well, let's listen to the public first and hear what they have to say. Number seven will be council comments and then budget workshop will start at 8. Is there anything else? If not, do I have a motion to approve this draft agenda? I'll make a motion to approve the draft agenda with the addition of council comments. Do I have a second? Second. Any more discussion? All in favor? I.

Moving on. Next up be public comments on agenda items. Anyone member of the public's welcome to come up. We'll set the clock. Let you roll. Can actually hear this one. So, state your name and all. And just I'm not going to push you to to hush it through. I will just you know, we're trying to get it. Okay. Thank you.

So, typically I don't come up here to speak. My name is Beth Johnson. I am on 1206 Riverside Drive. Um, I feel like it is, um, I just need to say this, um, to everyone sitting, um, and is going to be working hard on our budget. Um, I'd like for all of you that sit before us to please do as you have been elected to do. Keep the town's best interest in mind when considering and voting for our new budget. Our town is headed in a good direction now. We have a good group um that has really done some good things for our town. I hope you consider um continue to consider fiscal responsibility when finalizing this budget. We are a small town and as I keep hearing all over town. We need to keep it a small town. It's a good town and everybody likes it because it is a small town. Um we've also heard that our tax rate is really the highest in the area. We can't afford to grow our budget at the rate it has been growing because we are already paying premium above others. Hard responsible decisions have to be made on our new budget. And I hope and pray the elected officials that are sitting here that are making decisions for our town will be true to their word, stand strong to do what needs to be done to help keep our town prosperous and growing. Thank you guys.

Thank you, Miss Johnson.

Good afternoon. Tony Marino 802 Riverside Drive. Uh to look at the number superficially, one would think that you have done a good job holding expenditures down. However, a closer look tells a more troubling story. That is one in which the town's spending on total compensation for its employees has grown and is growing at an alarming rate. One that will saddle the taxpayers of financial burden well into the future. Personal compensation numbers have grown on average of $800,000 per year since 2023. That's a 40% increase after being flat between 21 and 22. Compensation now consumes 2/3 of the total town expenditures and the remaining 1/3 going towards other operating costs such as equipment, vehicle repair, supplies, etc. We can expect the total compensation number to grow when you factor in that the town's contributions to employee pensions and retirement accounts have grown 100% since 2022, going from $550,000 to 1.2 million for pension contributions and 124,000 to 252,000 for 401k matching contributions. I'm not even including the increasing healthcare obligations that we all face. The total public safety commitment to the compensation number especially stands out with the police department figures increasing by 100% between 2022 and 2026 approximately 1.3 million to 2.6 million and the fire department increasing from 1.5 million to 3 million. These figures exclude the total department expenditures which reach approximately 7 million of the total 12 million proposed budget. I don't mean to single out the police department or the fire department, but what I'm getting to is that we as we commit more of the revenue to the number of town employees through compensation and operating expenditures in relation to adjoining

communities, less revenue is available for infra in infrastructure repairs that the town requires. At the initial budget hearing, the public works department spoke about streets that are due or will need attention. They highlighted that repaving country club lane alone would exceed $3 million in today's money dollars. Where will the revenue needed will come from um if the upward rise in compensation is not addressed? The proposed budget is reflective of a problem that that this council needs to address and not contribute to. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Marina.

Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, mayor, members of the council. I'm I'm old school. I have paper instead of my phone.

So, uh, I'd like to confirm everything that was just said. That was a great presentation, I thought. My name is Mark Kramer. I'm vice president of the Sunset Beach Taxpayers Association. I'm here on behalf of the association. I live at 902 Northshore Drive West, Sunset Beach. Uh really pleased to see everybody here and proud that we endorsed four of the new council members and the mayor in the most recent election and appreciate what y'all have done so far in terms of efficiency and effectiveness with government that uh in your elections you you pledged to have more transparency, to have more accountability, to be more effective in terms of what you did and to have be more fiscally responsible than your predecessors. And I really hope that you will continue to follow that those precepts and those concepts and those uh statements you made during the elections and and feel very confident that you will and appreciate what you've done so far. Um the uh uh personnel costs as as just discussed have really been something that kind of takes your breath away. Uh, as noted, the personnel costs are now 60% 66% of the total budget, which is the highest percentage of the total budget in at least the last 6 years and maybe ever. I don't know. I just went back six years. And twothirds of the total budget is the highest percentage of personnel cost we've had in that time period. The the increases yeartoear from FY20 to 21 have been 13.8%. 8% 13% 7.9% 10.6% 12.7% and this year we're looking at about 9.9% increase. That's a low about 11 12% a year after year after year after year after year. Now when you compound it,

you go from FY 20 to 21 to the current proposed fiscal year, it's a 93% increase in personnel costs. total personnel cost going from 4.29 million to the proposed 8.286 million. It's a de or take a 10,000 bucks. I see you amended the proposal, but that's that's a fantastically large increase, 93% over that period of time, six years. Uh and it looks like it's just going to just keep going up and going up and going up and going up. And if it continues at the current rate in four years or so, our personnel expenses will be as high as our current total budget today. So this this has got to be addressed. The uh you can address it a number of different ways. You can deal with certainly the number of personnel that the town employs and you can deal with it by dealing with the compensation of those personnel. Now the number of personnel I I don't know. I I've tried to get a handle on how many we have. I think it's in the 6667 full-time employee range. Now, our proposed budget is 12.4 million. If you look at the budget documents for our friends right next door at Ocean Isle, they have 74 full-time employees in their budget and their budget in their budget year. And their budget is projected to be 26.4 million. So they have seven more people and their budget is more than twice ours. So you got to ask yourself, do we have the right number of people? I can't answer that question, but it's certainly a question that I would ask you to take a hard look at. Second thing is the wage levels and benefits. Uh where are we on those? The um uh there's an awful lot of of salary

compensation. You got base salary, you got holiday, you got overtime, you got on call, you got kas, you got merit increases, you got step increases, you got longevity pay, and then you have all the nonmonetary benefits that the the staff receives. Now, these have been going up, as mentioned earlier, dramatically. The the non-compensation part, well, compensation has gone up 34% over the last four years. The benefits have been going up. For instance, pensions went up 54% in the last four years. The medical dental went up 49% over the last four years. Uh 401k contribution by the town has gone up 81% in the last four years. Now, those are huge increases. And you have the ability as a town council to dial those numbers up or down back and forth. Some you can't. Some are statutoily required, the FICA, the pensions, but you can deal with the 401k. You can deal with the health care. You can deal with all of the compensation levels. And you need to take a look at it. I mean, if you if you're not going to reduce them, freeze them at least for a year or two. Even like the benefits, if you don't want to take them from current employees, you don't want to reduce the current level, fine. but look at freezing them for some period of time till we get a handle on these total costs as they keep ratcheting up and ratcheting up and ratcheting up. So, we would we would ask you to take a really hard look at that. It's a part of the budget that is just eating us alive as a town and there are things that need to be done and and we would respectfully suggest that you as a town council need to really wrestle with that and and tackle it and and make some difference and change that curve some so we as a town can remain fiscally responsible.

Thank you for the time. I appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Kramer. Thank you. I go down freezes. I just kicked it up. Did you freeze in here? teeth are chattering. Goodness gracious. Okay.

Hey everybody, Chris Bowman, 4174th Street. Ditto to what everybody else said. I agree 100% with the direction that's going. My take is always a little different. Um, I started looking at the budget at the revenue side and my first thing I started with letter A. I went to the ABC board. ABC board revenues are down. Why? I looked at the accommodations tax collections. This was previously raised at another meeting. Are we confident the town is collecting all accommodation tax revenue owed to them? On shortterm rentals, some communities in the state of Wisconsin. I actually know someone that is in this business. There are cities that use permit systems and there are fines. In the state of North Carolina, that may or may not be possible. But I do understand that cities like Raleigh, North Carolina, Greensboro, North Carolina, use zoning permit systems and they charge short-term rentals. Maybe it's a yearly fee, maybe it's a onetime fee, and then they can monitor compliance. And I'm wondering, would the town consider evaluating a zoning permit and fee structure along with stronger enforcement and regular audits to ensure full tax collection and accountability. I think this is really important because I think we're missing out on big money here. On the spending side, I appreciate the discussion that you're going to have later on today regarding the STEP program and I encourage consideration of the total compensation benefit package. And then I ask how much for step was improved under the former budget. How much you are going to approve under this budget? Me as Joe Blow public, I can't tell that from that budget that's out there. That's probably hidden in the documents somewhere in the salary information that's not posted online that you have to do a public records request for. I also want to acknowledge

the excellent new credit card policy. I'm guessing that there was likely not one in place before. I think that's a positive step towards accountability. Ultimately, we all want to see our tax dollars going towards truly important services rather than what I deem excessive is a $1,500 desk times two. It was $3,000 worth of desks. Two desks. All right. That happened here in the town. I hope we can continue focusing on responsible spending and ensuring strong stewardship of public funds. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Bman. Thank you. Anyone else?

John John Corbett 1313 Canal Drive a and no longer a council member. So I'm opening up a can of worms here. Uh sever of the worms just compensation has always been a big problem there. uh just sort of a bit of advice. You know, there's some of the things we have to do is figure out what are the services that we want, what are the type of people that we want working here, how are we going to get those people, how we going to maintain those people. There's a lot of competitiveness in this county, the two adjacent counties to to get the people. It's also a question of uh are we really providing them with a living wage? Do we care about providing our employees with the living wage? Um, if you're going to try to c cut your personnel cost, one of the things to do is cut the people. So, who you going to cut? Again, what are you going to cut? Why are you going to cut it? What are the downstream implications of doing that? These are all very difficult things. Just a question about the uh the uh the rentals and whether everybody is paying for the rentals. Uh the previous uh administration uh had went through two companies that specialized in scanning through the internet and pulling off everybody who's renting around here. Well, it didn't work. They couldn't do it. We know that there's a problem, but uh the idea of hiring somebody to use the internet and have the expertise to scan the internet and find out who's paying and who's not paying didn't work. Um, one one close to home concern I have is adopting a pol and it hits people and reducing the people. Uh, and it's one that I'm getting hit with a lot of complaints. Uh, people thinking that I still might be on the council, but a lot of people don't

pay attention really of what's going on. And the biggest complaints is new policy of rolling back the garbage cans. There's a policy put into effect probably seven, eight, 10 years ago to have one of the DPW uh workers, a part-time worker solely doing that job and and making sure they were pulled back. the rules that are set up now that people are going to be fined, uh the time to put them out, the time to take them back, uh where to put them, all of those things are something that if it's going to have any effect, they have to be enforced. And a lot of our part- timerrs, our renters, uh even the property owners who are here part of the time, you really don't know the rules and don't even know how to handle those. Now, the downstream impact is you've got a policy in there. It's got to be enforced. Who's going to enforce it? What's the fine going to be? How often is the fine going to be? And and why do it? The uh previous council, even before my time, looked at it and they couldn't solve that problem. Enforcement was a critical problem. Uh so, you think through an issue, you think you got a good idea to reduce one part-time person. There's a lot of impact that it has on the community. So, you really need to think through the downstream impact of some of the decisions you're going to make. And you got a lot of hard decisions to make. So, think of where you want to go and what you want to do for the town. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Corbett. Anyone else? Anyone else? There's no one else. Then we'll go to the council comments. member council. Yes,

Miss Bachelor and I have something to go over some handouts here down please. Thank you. Um, Alan, we need some help with the slides. Alan,

you ready for me to start?

Okay, there we go. Okay. Um, Katie and I have put together some information. Um, the budgets that we have received, particularly around personnel cost, are concerning. Um, we've done a lot of research looking back and forth at everything and um have tried to bring some of this up and um felt like this is the best avenue to bring it up to share with everybody for everybody to make their own decision on where we are. Um so I'm going to start I've got some slides but I'm going to read off some stuff first and then I'll kind of go over the slides. Um, and um, I have asked that these and other documents from past budget meetings be put on the website under the agendas because I know myself and other council people are getting asked to see the details and they're not out there. It sounds like some were put under budget and finance and then some were not. So, um, so we really want all those under the agenda. Um, and so where it's discussed so people can see it because I know myself, I've probably received in the last week 32 I've re received 32 requests for documents. So folks shouldn't have to do a public records request to receive it. It should be out there what we're talking about. So I know staff is working on that. So some of this is kind of due to that because it's not been out there where folks can see it. So, I'll get started. Um, I have concerns with the growing personnel cost. Um, I fully support our employees and recognize the important work they do every day. My concern is not with staff personally, but with the long-term sustainability of the financial trajectory we are currently on. As elected officials, we have a responsibility not only to meet today's needs, but also to ensure future councils and taxpayers remain physically

stable. Um, personnel costs are consuming a growing share of our budget. Personnel costs have increased from roughly 57% of the budget in fiscal year 2021 to approximately 66 projected in fiscal year 2627. The first budget we received as a council is version is is fiscal year 26 27 version one. That budget that had everything that was requested was at $9 million for a $12 million budget. So basically 75% of our budget or three out of every $4 was for personnel costs. So that left us $1 per every four to do anything with it. Um our our staff has worked to reduce the budget line item sum. So now we're at around 66% 66.5% for personnel cost is still very high. So about 2/3 is going to personnel. So that only leaves us 1/3 to do every every of everything else. When twothirds of your operating budget is tied to personnel expenses, it leaves increasingly limited flexibility for infrastructure, capital projects, storm preparation, equipment replacement, and other community properties priorities. Every additional dollar committed to reoccurring personnel costs is a dollar unavailable for roads, drainage, beach maintenance, public facilities, dredging, or future emergencies. long-term sustainability concerns. Our growth trend is outpacing our revenue growth. The projected personnel growth personnel growth rate appears to be increasing faster than the town's long-term revenue growth capacity. If this trend continues unchecked, councils may be forced, including our council, into difficult choices: tax increases,

service reductions, hiring freezes, or deferred infrastructure maintenance. future projection concern. The projections presented show personnel costs potentially reaching more than $13 million by fiscal year 3031. And I'm going to show you those slides later here in a minute. That number approach that number approaches and could eventually exceed what our entire town budget is now. That that should be a warning sign for all of us. Fixed costs reduce flexibility. Personnel expenses are reoccurring obligations. Once salaries and benefits are added, they become very difficult to reduce later. Unlike one-time capital purchase, reoccurring payroll obligations compound year after year through retirement contributions, health care costs, colas, merit, overtime, longevity adjustments, etc. Consern really concerned about the future economic conditions of the town. We are blessed right now. We live in a blessed community, but that could change. These projections assume relatively stable economic conditions. If we experience an economic downturn, storm event, tourism slowdown, or unexpected revenue decline, the town could find itself financially strained very quickly. Here are some budget questions to consider. What is the town's long-term plan to prevent personnel costs from crowding out capital investment? How will future pension and healthcare liabilities affect taxpayers? Are we building structural obligations faster than reoccurring revenues? We absolutely need to support and retain quality employees. At the same time, we must ensure we are not creating a financial structure that councils and taxpayers cannot substain. Good budgeting requires balance. supporting employees while also preserving the

town's ability to invest in infrastructure, public access assets, emergency preparedness, and overall quality of life for the residents. And what I have prepared here, and I know it's hard to see on the screen, but some of you have handouts, and it's also will be on the website, right? Um,

it's on there now. So, if you got your phone, you can pull it up. Um but the first slide here is Sunset Beach total budget and personnel cost. As you can see in uh start of the year fiscal year 2021 um our overall budget was basically 7.5 million and our personnel was 4.2 so about 56% there. And as you can see I'm not going to go over all of this but um you can see our current year right now our budget is 12.8 million and our personnel is at 7.5 million. So we're at 58.71%. Um so it we you know as you can see the trajectory going up there. The first budget we received is the fiscal year 2627 version one and that had us at $9 million for personnel out of a $12 million budget. Um we since have some um different versions of the budget. We're right now our budget that we received Friday. We've also received some more updates on the budget since Friday. But some of this I created over the weekend. Um we received a new budget even yesterday and some changes even and a couple hours ago. So some of this is a little you know it's evolving but our current budget on the version 4 budget that was presented to C emailed to us on Friday shows us at 66.54% for our personnel. And then I'm going to go to slide two or try to slide two here is the personnel cost drivers. Um, these are all things that some of you may know of, some of you may not. I'm going to hit on um that that play into this. We have base salary, holiday, on call, and overtime pay. Some positions have 28 hours of overtime pay built into their regular schedule. We have cost of living adjustment increases. The council, some numbers we had ran were a 2.5% COLA for this year and a and then a

merit increase of 2%. So it would be a 4.5% increase to or possible increase for all the employees. Projected step has been discussed. Step cost also includes the courses, the mileage, the lodging, the meals, the backfield, the overtime, the flex time, and the salaries. Um, and for example, the step training cost alone for fire was $50,485. Police it was $44,419. So there are costs for all this training we're doing on top of things and that's just for two of the departments that had started this process um and reclassifications longevity increase or longevity increase or bonus. I've heard it both ways um holiday bonuses FICA 7.65% pension general employees and fire get 23.02% 02% added to their p state pension and police gets 24.99% added to their state pension. 401k we give 5% of salary. Medical dental envision for employees. It's the ba um it's based on a state salary scale for our employees and our medical dental and vision coverage to dependent is we currently cover 50% cost of that of those life insurance long-term disability and workman's comp. Um my next one here talks about the increases. Um um I guess since running and even being in council I've heard you know a lot a lot of employees you know where or heard whether you know a lot of things you hear aren't true on many cases but some will say oh they hadn't got increases or some will say they have got increases. So, I researched all this going back to 2020 and looked at every salary change that had happened for every employee, whether it be a bonus, a salary change,

an increase. And this is what I found across the board. Um, in fiscal year 223, 7% COLA was given to all employees and 3% merit. So, a total of 10% increase was given that year or or they could get it with merit. In 23 24 the same thing 7% cola 3% merit. So in those two years alone 20% increase in salary could happen in in 2425 4% cola plus a holiday bonus was given to all employees if they had what I've been told if they had worked here a year. So I'm not sure but it's it came to about $24,500 in 2526. It was a 3% COLA plus a longevity bonus was given in November of this past year in 25. On top of that, there were multiple raises, adjustments, reclassifications, and promotions given. So to me, in looking at all this information, because I I was told there was not a way for people to advance. To me, we did have a step type plan in place all along, and those have been happening. they're hap they happen in looking at the data they happen more in some departments than others and you know I guess just due to the structure um but okay I'm going to go to the next slide here the next slide here shows the total personnel cost in yearoveryear increases as you can see these have increased most years in double digits um we did have one year an outlier physical year 23 24 there was just a 4.66% increase, but on average that came to around 12% increase average over year. And keep in mind 3 to 5% increase is the typical in coastal towns.

Um so that's that. And um and one thing to look at in our version one of the budget um the 26 27 version one the personnel costs were right at $9 million and um that was 19.23%. you know, our version five that we just got either yesterday or my days are a little run together, but we got recently um this week. Um the the personnel cost are 9.59%. But keep in mind, some of the items that we were told at our past meeting we definitely needed in the budget process were removed. Like I think four positions were removed and things like that to make the benefit increase as possible. So, that's kind of where some of that is, and we'll be going over this budget in more detail. Um, on the next slide here, as you can see, um, here, this is the projected future personnel cost based on a 12.63 average increase. And this is what the average increase was from 202021 budget year until our current current budget year. So, that's why I ran those those figures. So right now the budget that's being presented today the version five I believe version four was what was on the website before the meeting but version five our budget um for personnel is 8 8.279 million um if you increase that percentage going out as you can see each year that compounds and we're going to be in fiscal year 3031 we're going to be at 13.3 million. our personnel costs that year would be more than our town budget is. So, as I said before, there would be no way not to just totally increase have to

increase taxes or have no services. And that no matter who is in office, um the next um slide I'm going to show is something that um in this process I hate to have to show and I hate to, but I feel like taxpayers need to see this. I I know I've asked that some of these things need to be out there so people can look at. But running the information, wait a minute, hang on. Running the information here, I have a personnel increase um this in one year this year. What's being proposed by position that is being recommended in most cases these percent increases are higher than than expected. And I would I would hope that council looking at some of these percentages in dollar amounts would find this very concerning. We receive a lot of information on these budgets and all I can tell you is hours upon hours upon hours I know I have spent diving into these looking at them to see where we are. And this new budget includes a lot of increases in benefits. Um and and if you look at this, I also question why should some departments receive huge raises and others not. It's just not equitable across all departments. This current step process that is um being laid out along with the merit right now. There's a um the cola merit, the longevity, the um step is proposed in there as well as the others. And there's some other detailed documents that should be out on the agenda that will show even more information on this. I did not because it would not show well on the screen because it's a lot. Um that's that's that's what I have to wrap up and Katie has another piece to present that goes along with it. But all I ask is that as taxpayers, as council,

that we really look at this stuff and see because we've got to be able to sustain this. We all want what's best for our employees. And I'm for giving employees definitely ways to advance. And for COLA, I'm for COLA. I'm for merit. And I know there was a lot of discussion about the dependent care um insurance coverage. and we looked or talked about dependent care because we pay 50% of the current dependent care for our employees. The problem is we have a lot of employees that are single. They're not married. They some don't have children. So, it's they are again not equitable to those staff members that some staff is receiving for let's say $14,000 in medical um being paid when when other staff can't get it. So that's why we were trying to look at being able to offer more cola or merit. Um, so just so you kind of know, I know some of those discussions happened at the last meeting, but that's why we were looking at that to be able to offer across the board or incentivize people for doing a great job.

Thank you, Miss Thank you, Miss Bachelor. Um, we have worked hours. We have worked weeks on this. Um, and we did it for you all, the taxpayers. This was never to hurt our employees. We are most grateful for our employees. We have a a good workforce. They're trained. They're educated. We thank you for that. Um my whole career I've advocated for benefits and compensation. And what I saw when I started looking at this, it's too rich. And we always talk about the visitors. We want to do things for the visitors. This budget looks like we're doing everything for the employees, but at some point we have to stand up for the taxpayers. And that's what this presentation is about. The taxpayers, you all are the ones that fund everything that we do. And we owe you an explanation. So, just want to make sure that this is not to to hurt anybody, but if we don't tell the story, who's going to tell the story? Um, the taxpayers, you all, we we owe them some answers, and I have some questions here. Is a current budget proposal sustainable? Personnel expenditures are increasing. Dispatch went over those. This is while our infrastructure investments are being reduced. How will the town address future road repairs, repaven, storm water maintenance, capital improvement, and facility plans if personnel costs continue to grow at the pace that they are in this budget? What's a town's long-term strategy for controlling recurring personnel cost? We need to think about those things. Are we setting ourselves up too much? How will future

infrastructure needs be funded? Are current compensation increases align with the town's long-term financial capacity? Should the town adopt formal budgeting guidelines? How does personnel growth compare to population growth and inflation? What staffing benchmarks or budgeting guidelines are we using or are we not using any? Will council establish limits or targets for future personnel growth? Council, I implore you, we have to determine how infrastructures needs are going to be funded. For the below, there are five, excuse me, four things. road repair and repavement and maintenance, storm water maintenance and draining improvements, capital improvement projects, long-term forecasting and reserve planning is not a part of this budget. All these questions and determinations need to be answered to ensure long-term financial planning is being used to ensure taxpayers are protected from future tax increases. We have to be very vigilant on this. Council should understand that the fiscal year 2017, excuse me, 2027 budget compensation decisions that we're going to make up here are they're going to have long-term financial commitments that they are going to affect our property rates. So on the next slide, um, as I shared with you all, benefits are very important. Benefits help retain employees. It also helps recruit. So, um did a comparison. It was a com I wanted to look at the benefits so that we could compare our benefits with what benefits of other coastal towns in North Carolina and also Brunswick County employee what

their benefits are. The chart below that you see shows the population and the property tax rate for each town and for Brunswick County. You you all know that all of our coastal towns in Brunswick County that we experience habit substantial surges of population in our summer months. The tax rates have to accommodate for that. Want you to know where the information came from. Don't want you to think I made this up. So the tax rates came from the department of revenue. The benefits, excuse me, the benefits were sourced from the League of Municipalities. It's important to note that not all the benefits are here. Some towns um don't want to be compared because they don't want to play the game of trying to compete with someone. Um you see the ones that are not um reported. Um but that chart there shows um what I consider our peer group and you see on there I have highlighted that Sunset Beach our tax rate is a little lower. I talked with a lot of the managers and I said, "Hey, your tax rate's higher than ours." be careful with your benefits. All of a sudden, it jumps up on you, jumps on you at five, six% at a time. We don't want that. The next slide is part of an appendicy that you have in the back of your um packet here. This is a roll up to show what the benefits are regardless of the population and the tax rate.

Oh, do I need to turn it? Yeah.

I'm sorry. Okay. Sure. Okay. So, that's at the top is a roll up um of the benefits you see highlighted results indicate that towns in Brunswick County with higher property tax rates have richer employee benefits. Um coastal towns, we have different populations. The scorecard there shows that Sunset Beach and our benefit package that we have currently is competitive. It's above average. I'm going to talk a little bit more about the paystep plan later, but um you see on that scorecard, we're above average. We're in the game. We're above average. The next page. So, what Miss Bachelor and I are trying to convey to the council is that we must balance our personnel cost in our infrastructure needs. And I love that graphic there. You see, as the monies go up, we need to scrutinize what that is about. As the monies go up, you would think we were paying for infrastructure needs. We are not. In this physical budget, we're paying for rich benefits, bonuses, and salary increases. We do not want to end up like the picture on the right where we do not have roads or road is closed or we have storm water issues. We live at the coast. Some of you all may not be from the coast. I'm from the coast. And if you don't think a hurricane will come, it will. It came when I was in college. And my parents decided that they wanted to pack up the whole freezer. Buy a new freezer and put the freezer in my college dorm room with all the food. Have an Italian mother. Food is very important. If you don't think a hurricane will come, I remember when. Um, so why does all this matter? Well,

we are looking at allocating huge personnel compensation packages and benefits, and we're not balancing that comparatively. We're limiting our infrastructure and our long-term capital needs. Miss Bachelor went over some of these. The personnel expenses, we know some of these are going to be recurring. They compound. they they perpetuate they they go up each year for the lifetime of the employee. What's been introduced this year is a step plan and this has very high salary increases with rich longevity bonuses. We had to make some recommendations to help the council so that we have more money in the budget for infrastructure needs, specifically road repairs, road reconstruction, specifically storm water issues, specifically um long-term capital improvement plans that we need. Um we we do need to retain benefits 401k contribution. We're contributing 5%. That's very good. That's competitive. That's above average. We're in the game. Our core health, um, we're above average. We're paying 50% of a lot of the dependent care coverage. That's almost unheard of. I came from local government. Miss Bachelor came from private practice. I never had this in my 32-year career. Long-term disability is something that we do need to have. We have employees that could get hurt on the job. We need to protect them for that. Um the wellness plan, it's a prudent offering. I've spoken on this before. The mental

well, excuse me, the mental wellbeing of our public safety officers is the utmost importance. It's a small investment and I think it will yield benefits. I am recommending and Miss Bachelor is as well to remove the step plan. It is important for our public to know we never had a step plan before. It was introduced. It was not introduced with any cost. October 2025 after a budget last year was approved, our council approved it in theory. No costs were ever disclosed. We've gone over some of the cost. It's very costly. We've trained the employee. That was a cost. Whatever training that they had may have been out of town, we had to pay the cost. When I say we, I mean you all the taxpayers, you paid for that. If there was an employee that had to be off out of staff, we paid for a replacement. There could have been overtime involved in that. Then we on top of that, we're going to train them. Now, let's think about a teacher. Teachers have to be certified. School board doesn't pay for them to get certified to get their credentials, but we're doing that here. It's this is unheard of. There was no budget amendment and now we are saddled with this burden. What do we do? This is very hard to discuss this. We have employees in the room. This is very difficult. But it has to be said. No municipality in North Carolina, no county in North Carolina has a step plan like we have or what is being proposed. Um, you know, we have no way of knowing that we're going to approve improve performance. We have no standard measures.

The individual that created this, I think, has been here less than two years for on our staff. Um the best way is merit. I know that merit was trying to be a replacement with the step. The step was going to be a replacement for merit. But why not institute a merit program? If you do your job, you should get paid for your job. If you do something over and beyond, that is when you get extra. It is not just to give you extra money. It is important to note we exist. We're a town. We exist to provide services. We do not exist to be an employer. And I know that's hard to say, but we exist to provide services to our community. And we need to make sure that that is what we are doing and that we're providing the services that our town needs and the infrastructure and the investments that we need if we want to do a longevity plan. Um, I I'm not saying that I'm for a longevity plan, but if you want to do one, we need to do one that's more in line. The one that we have now is way too rich. Um, the the last page is the roll up. It's an appendency. Um, so this is the data. Um, you can see what towns were surveyed. This is our peer group. What benefits they have and how the the data was um collected, excuse me, and and an analyzed and that ends the part that I was doing. Um, again, I just want council to to understand we like our employees. Some of you all

are personal friends for with our employees. We must do better for our taxpayers. That that's all we're asking. We need to put some money in capital. We need to make sure that we have infrastructure needs. Um, and I thank you all for listening to this. Does anybody have any questions or comments that they would like to ask us? We spent a lot of time um diving down into data. Um we made multiple requests for different kind of wasn't easy but we we we did it. Questions, comments? I know that the the step program has has been talked about individually, me and you, you and me, you and me, me, me, me, whatever. Everybody's talked about that. And I think that the general counsel decision has basically come. We've, you know, talked to the administrator about this, looking back at this step program, maybe even scrapping it and even seeing if it's anything in the future that we would actually put back into play because we do feel from now that we've got the got the numbers that this might not have been in the best interest and same thing with the longevity. So, I think this already has been discussed as far as individually and all trying to work towards something that we get. And I think that the from my taking on what the council sees fit that everybody's pretty much in agreeance that this is something that we're going to have to move away from, you know, in the near future or us coming out of this year that we're going to have to move away from this and and either revamp it or whatever. But it's definitely something that now seeing the numbers, it was a very costly move. Was not something that was done before this council come on, but it's something that's we've inherited and that they've got to work from from here. So other than that, does any member of council have anything?

You agree with

Well, thank you for that because it was taken out and then two weeks ago it was put back in and we don't know how it got back in, but we knew that we needed to show you all the numbers. Um, and Logic I'm glad to hear Logic prevailed today. Thank you. I think the in saying that that the thing that I think the reason it's back in here is because we looked at at paying it because we firmly don't believe in the things that came on before this council came in was brought and promised to these employees to go back and take it away now after we promised it to them is not a good thing. That is not a good precedent to set. We all agree that that it's not not in the best interest of our town going forward. I think it pretty much if this budget goes through, I think the numbers that show here is paying this stuff out, a onetime payment being done with it and then moving forward. So, that's something we'll have to look at as we go through the budget because it'll all be discussed then. That's where you're at with it. So,

and I also think the concern is even a one-time payout is costly as well as the longevity because we're looking at a COLA increase, a merit increase, a um obviously you some some employees can get o overtime on call pay and then you also get the um longevity bonus um as well as the step bonus. And as you can see in the one sheet I did, um, some of those are huge bumps in pay for this one year, um, we were told that STEPP was to be included in base pay going forward. Um, two hours before the meeting, I received something that said that STEPP would be a one-time payment in Longevity, a one-time payment. Longevity has never been paid until November of this year. It was of 2025. longevity was paid and again some large dollars. We're not talking we used to give the town would give $500 holiday bonuses in November and then it jumped to um some receiving thousands of dollars. Um so um it's a the my understanding is the step program was voted in in October by the prior council but there was no funding or no dollars put around that is what I've been told and I've asked numerous times on that. So, it's kind of hard, you know, it and we've asked as a council for several months what from October that meeting date to our meeting date this spring had been done by employees specifically during that time frame, not other time frames to get to step and we don't have those. We haven't received that information to even evaluate. Um but we are asking questions and trying to get clarity on that because we also want to do right by employees but it's such a cost if we do

that if we do the step we can't then do cola we can't do merit we can't do longevity too we cannot do all of these things it's way too rich it's too costly to our taxpayers in our budget and as y'all can see by these figures it's not sustainable at all and we will have no money to do roads or storm water any all the amenities we want. In many of these communities that Katie highlighted, the percentage that residents pay, they have a lot more services provided to them than we do as well. They have lots of recreation offerings. They they also do in in town um you know they handle um what is it the um

public works public works um sanitation. They do leaf and limb. Some towns have cemeteries. Some towns do electric cities. They have they run utilities.

Um we contract out all of these. Um you know to to echo what Miss Bachelor is saying. We we have asked and and we're asking again what did the employee do from October 25 that council meeting when they approved it to the time that we asked which was in in April. What did they do in between there? How did it increase their performance? There's one thing to go into a training, but did it increase your performance? What's what's the measure on that? Did the employee take it just to get a bump in in pay? At some point, we need to have employees that want to be here for the pride of the town. You know, again, I'm going to use the example of a teacher. We have a teacher who has to get certified every so often. School system doesn't pay for that. but he or she has to do that. But we know that there is a core curriculum there that tells them that teacher that you have to take these classes. We didn't see that in the step. So now we're even talking about giving them a bonus, but did it increase their performance? And who's going to measure that? I mean, we can't even get what did they take? When did they take it? What did it do to their performance? We've heard some of the topics that some of them have taken and I'm not going I'm not going to say them up here. But, you know, it's not right and we we can't have it. It's it's not fair to our taxpayers. So, even giving them everybody across the board, excuse me, it's not everybody across the board, that that's it, too. we we have some departments that don't have the opportunity to have that increase and that's not fair to them. Um and we need to think about that when

when we think about going to give them a one-time check. And that one time check um it's like going to be about $200,000. What could that fund be? Could that be something a road part of a road? Anyway, you all know where we stand on this. We all may disagree on this, but we all did campaign and this PE people have shared with us. They know what we campaigned on and we did say we would scrutinize the budget and we need to do that. Never mind. Anything else? If not, moving on to the budget part. Go ahead, sir. Yes, sir.

Here we go. Um, I got a lot I could say back to a lot of your comments. Um, I've been with the town since 2017. I've advocated for employee pay since 2017. Prior to that, I was a police chief in Northern Ohio for eight years. I advocated for employee pay the entire eight years I was there. I come to Sunset Beach in 2017. Our patrol officers made $34,600 a year. $34,600 a year. Property values in 2017 were significantly less than they are today. Employees now coming in the door day one make make $53,560 a year. It's an increase of $34,600 over 9 years. You know what property values are in Sunset Beach today after 2020. I don't know that any of my employees can afford a residence in Sunset Beach at $53,560 a year. So, I'm going to continue to be an advocate for their pay. Um, I I understand this. I I understand all of it. And there are needs there. You know, being in this dual role, I there's there's a lot of needs. You know, I I drive down the streets. I hit the pod I hit the same potholes you hit. Um I swerve around some of the potholes. Um, but um, yeah, I'm just I'm just going to say that I I'm going to I'm going to advocate for for our people. Um, they work hard, they work weekends, they work nights, they work storms. Um, you know, we have a hurricane and everybody leaves town. We mandate our people to come here and sleep in this building

for $53,000 a year. It's not every case. And Chief, thank you for that advocacy. Um, you you do that um and continue to do that. That's what you're supposed to do as a department head. So, please don't take our remarks as against you is they are not against you. Um, I've been in your shoes before. Oh, I haven't been a police chief. Um, haven't been a No, sir. No, sir. I do not. Um, but I commend you for doing that. It's hard to to balance everything. I get it. I understand that. So, thumbs up to you.

Well, thank you. Um, so before I I don't want to just dive in, you know, generally on this and I've got uh I'm gonna ask Matt to come up because Matt's got a commitment that he has to be at. So in essence time, I want to talk about um some changes with Matt's budget because he asked for a decrease in the power bill funding that you see. And I think Alan, I think you have u the kind of summary page that you might be able to put up on the screen if you can throw that up there. And then if we want to flip over to the streets portion of the budget. And Matt, if you just want to talk um with the council about your decrease request for the POW bill and then also of course

you know there's the roll cart position moved into maintenance. If you just want to cover those two things. What page are we on? It's this sheet. Oh, that sheet. It's got some highlights on it. Sheet. Yeah, it's a cover sheet.

Go ahead, Mr. Matt. Is it on now? Oh, there we go. Um, so what I had done was, um, I had went back and, uh, got some numbers and looked at the POW bill savings that we have, the funds that we have. Um Alicia and I had talked a little bit about it and it did um the numbers I had sent out to you all um this morning um which I apologize it should have been sooner. Um it it decreased um by $50,545. The reason I had done that um we're still looking at Old Point um Clubhouse Road and 27th Street right now. Um, and we had gotten I'd asked the contractor to split up Clubhouse Road. Um, he sent me back an email this morning. Um, not with a quote, but um, a way that we can assist him and and making it a little bit easier to break up and give us a proper number. So, I'll be working on that over the next couple days and get with him to

Would you give us those roads again? Old Point Clubhouse and 27th Street. Okay.

Yes. Um, so I the main reason I had done this with the PAL bill was to not um I guess take as much money out um of our savings essentially because the the projected revenue that we'd be getting was 27,000 for this year which would go straight into the streets. Um, and then we would um we would be actually left with um is it 300? It was $320,482 in our savings fund. Um can we use more? Can we take more? Absolutely we can. Um it it kind of it all depend on what you all would like to do. If you'd like to take more out, we can. Um let's talk about how you got to those roads because we did a road survey.

We did. I know we talked about that at our last council. um our last budget session, the road survey was not complete um completed to our satisfaction. All it did was take we you know you and um a couple of us met with Miguel and Associates and they were they were to give you updated roads. Did they do that? The only thing that they really updated on that was um numbering the the conditions of the roads. And I mean the the roads mostly stayed the same. There were some switches here and there on some of them, but what they really did was just kind of put 1 2 3 4 5 and so on.

So these were one two three on the road survey. Old Point was one, Clubhouse was two, 27th was three. 27th originally was fourth. Seatrol Drive West was third. Um but we removed that because there was no need to. Okay. Thank you for explaining. We've had a lot of folks ask us who decided how did you determine you know what was the the matrix for determining and you were able to use the road survey and then you took those three. Yes ma'am. Okay.

Yes ma'am. Um and the number I had given you all um the last time the past couple times we've been here um for clubhouse road for example was a a a sum a lump sum number for from Rice Mill all the way to Old Georgetown. Um last council meeting I was asked to try to break that up and that's where we're at right now is um the gentleman responded this morning. Um we just need to get some more concrete numbers is what it is. Um, like I said, hopefully in the next couple days I can assist them with that and we'll get a better idea of what it would cost to separate those two sections. Um, again, uh, with the PAL bill itself, um, we can obviously take more. As you all just mentioned, there's roads that need to be repaired. I agree with you. Um, obviously we don't have the funds to do every single road. It's not possible. Um, but if we do take more out, I mean, we can we can try to address some other areas. Um, you know, we've gotten uh concerns and and comments back on on different roads um not only on the island, but on the mainland as well. And um you know, there's areas that we can try to address if we have extra extra money.

Tell us tell us and the taxpayers how much money in this budget are going to road repairs and Totally. Um, potholes, um, resurfacing, restriping. Correct. Yes. So, all the all the quotes that we received were for, um, either edge milling and paving, patching. Um, and every every quote is has striping included with those quotes. Um, so altogether it was $47,000. um power bill funds which were what we're expecting this year and what we would take the 200,000 out of the savings itself. So it make 47,000 and then we have a $150,000 in um the facilities repair and maintenance line item for paving and striping

to make it 557. How much are we putting in addition to pow bill funds? Nothing. We would be taking the 207 what we would be getting to put into the pal bill funds for this year. The 207 was already in the pow bill fund. This is that's what we're projecting to get this year. Okay. So again, how much taxpayer dollars not not pow bill that that is taxpayer dollars. That's North Carolina. How much Sunset Beach taxes are we putting in a road investment to our taxpayers? I keep asking that question. I'm gonna keep asking it till I get an answer. The $150,000

I don't know. I'm asking and I don't mean to be I mean that's the line item in public works in the whole budget. We're only spending $150,000. If you of all of $12 million, we're spending $150,000 on road repair of all the roads that we have.

Do do you all agree with that? Well, and my other question is on the 150, is that 150 not in that fund if there was an emergency? That was my understanding. That 150 is there for an emergency, not to like if we had some devastating storm come through, we would have something there or some sort of damage. To me, that that to me that 150 is not really for our regular repair of roads. It's to save that money in that account and have it kind of as a reserve. Is that not some of it? Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Not the entirety of it, but yes, some of it could be. So, how much should be how much do you recommend saving in that fund?

I mean, it could all depend on, you know, if we do have storms or not. I mean, you're you're asking me to ballpark here. 2020,000. So, that's only $30,000 used, but that is that 30,000 typically used for potholes, things like that that come up. Yes, ma'am. So, really, it's not extra money. It's really no money is there. And that's what I keep asking. I'm not satisfied with that. Are y'all satisfied with that? I mean, you all be pushing it. We got two weeks before we approve this budget. Yes.

And we keep asking the same questions and people keep coming back. We're not getting we're not getting anything resolved. We're hearing we're not putting any money from our taxes into road. Are y'all okay with that? you know, we're attacking this particular issue. I think we should wait until we get to the end to see what we have, what money we have left, how much we can put back into this versus attacking this as one particular issue. I think we should go through the whole budget, then come back and say, "Okay, we've got $500,000 left. Let's throw $250,000 into the uh into roads and let's use the other 250 for if you wish a rainy day fun. I'm going to call it. But I think trying to do it at every particular item going down that is I think we can note it and then we get back to the end take a look and see if we can make those changes. But we're going to be here

end of today. End of end of end of end of today next week. Let's see what happens at the end of today. Yeah. If we all agree that it's fine, then let's Well, and on that front, I know going back from February, the first meeting that budgets were brought up. I know some of us said we would like to see funds set up for these things. We've got to do road improvements, storm water improvements to name two that were brought up and and I know things we all campaigned on that we wanted to do and put money into. And um specifically we talked about three different capital improvement

funds. We talked about a road fund, we talked about a storm water fund, and we talked about a future dredging fund. Where do we find that in here? It this cover page that's up here will show a dredging fund. There is not a storm water or a street fund. Okay. outside of what we just talked about now with streets that's how bill

when we do as Mr. Pausal said when we look at, you know, we're getting again close to our finance director telling us how much money we're going to have left over um for this fiscal year and then um after we go through here and callull some of these things out, you'll know a number. I think that she does need some direction to put some money in these funds. If you all want to do that, if you don't want to do it, then then I I'm and if if the majority doesn't want to do it, I'm not going to mention it again. Well, I might mention it again because it's it's important. If we do not make an investment, if we do not put money in there and we just balance, you know, if we live just paycheck to paycheck, which our taxpayers do not live paycheck to paycheck, we don't invest and put money in reserves, we'll never make a dent on this, and we may have to be the council that has to do that. That's what I'm trying to to get an answer on. I started that in February and we're in May. So, if I'm a little testy, it's because I'm not getting any answers. Are we doing it or we're not doing it? And it does look like we're doing it when you were telling us we don't have any money from our regular funds other than POW bill that we're putting into roads. I'm not okay with that.

Are are y'all okay with that? I want to see what the bottom line is before I I know what we have available to use. I don't want to go over I don't want to spend money if I don't have it. Okay. If we don't have it in revenue, I very well can't spend it in expenses. We got 12 million in revenue that we can flush out. I think if we flushed out some of the benefits and that's what our presentation was about. Um then we will have the money for the necessary in infrastructure and for other investments.

I would agree then with Mr. puzzle. If we get to the end of the budget and that money remains, then we'll take the direction from the council to see where we want to put it. There there is $150,000 with the earmark for paving and streets in the public works budget. And to make I know you mentioned that to make sure too the 407 we are taking from the fund balance from power bill from previous years. So after this we will have depleted that account. Is that correct? No. No, that's not correct. How much is not the entire fund balance? How much is it in that fund balance? That would be nice to know.

$571,000 is currently sitting in the fund balance. Would that be to subtract 407 from that? No. No. Okay. So, that's an extra. That's that's what's right now today. That's what's in our balance. That's what's in our savings. And we're looking at getting 207, which would put that up to seven. Huh? If he takes that four back out, puts it down. Basically, he's he's saying that that 200,000, correct me if I'm wrong, cuz I think this is the way I've heard it, 200,000 out of that 500 whatever that number he just gave you. The 500 371 left after you take out your 200,000. He said that if you pull two out of that, correct?

And our finance director, will we have $371,000 left in the fund balance for the power bill? Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Well, I know I would like to see more go towards roads for sure because I feel like it's needed and I feel like many people have been waiting for their road and and we if we keep passing the buck down the road, the roads are never going to get done because there's always something needed and we've got to plan for it and to make it happen. I feel like so

thank you Matt say I know everybody here wants to explain to the residents exactly what their position are regarding how they got on council and everything else and I totally agree with everything you're saying but I think it's time we listen to the town administrator tell us what he's got and then let's we can we can make our post issue statements afterwards. And I think that's because I'm waiting for hear more numbers from from the town administrator and our finance director and alls I'm hearing is us talking about issues that are part of this, but let's hear what the numbers are.

Well, and I asked um Matt to come up so that we could get his deduction. Like I said, he's got a commitment and that commitment was made before we added the close session. So I I don't want to make him late for where he needs to be. Yeah. We re we want to revisit this at the end once we see what our numbers are to see if that money is there because I think it is I think everybody sits up here on council from what I've had from talking one person one person one person is that they would do want to take this money and be able to put some money in roads if we have it available and that's something we'll be able to see at the end once y'all go through this budget presentation.

Any other questions for Mr. Thank you.

If you're agreeable, I think we'll just start at the top of this list um that was was on the screen that uh shows that the changes in what you were presented at the last budget meeting is way by way of increases or decreases. and we can explain those, go into the funds. If there are things that need explained in in in more detail, we're happy to do that. Um, so the first line shows a decrease uh in the general fund of almost $100,000 for workers comp workers compensation. And this was some good news that we got where we budgeted for I believe a 30 or 31% increase and we actually saw a decrease of that amount about 30%. So, we were able to lower that line by $97,040 with our workers comp renewal.

And can can we can I clarify? Are we working off of version five of the budget or version four? Five this year. Okay. Yeah. I think the only there was one thing that was different on it. Well, because when I look when we say 97,000, when I look for workers comp, I'm seeing our budget was what we are was 124875 currently in proposed is 110 365. So that's the budget now cuz that's what I was showing in other versions as well of that workers comp. Um,

are we looking at the third draft version five? I believe you me because because the version three we received at the last budget meeting for worker's comp was 20745. There is some savings in the accommodations tax fund because we moved um Amy into accommodations. So 2,985 is the savings in the accommodations fund. Okay. Thank you. It just wasn't jing with the numbers and I know I asked some other questions about Thank you. So the 110 365 is what you're expecting it to be across the board for everybody all employees

except for Amy. Except for Amy. Okay.

Other questions on that decrease? Okay. Um, the next line shows a almost $7,000 or almost $8,000 reduction in council line item for salaries uh to the amount of $7,835 for the forbearance of salaries for the mayor, Councilman Arnold, and Councilman Broome. And that was changed um just recently too, which is why that's highlighted on the screen because that was uh I don't want to say last minute, but it was a later change than when that version was put out. Any questions on that line? Next line shows an increase um to fund put some money into a dredging fund of $135,000. So, this is with some other reductions that we had throughout the budget. We have uh monies left over that we've appropriated 135 into a future dredge account.

Could I ask a question about dredging? Um, we get a lot of questions about do we have all the folks that were supposed to pay, have they satisfied their bills? Do you know about I mean I I don't need to know exact numbers, but where are we on that? what we budgeted for in revenue was half of the balance of what we currently have. Yes, ma'am. Um the balance right now is $931,372 for dredging. That's how much we took in. That's how much we have left to collect. Some paid some paid a onetime payment, but then some of them are paying over three years and I think a few have not paid any at all. So that is our balance.

And where did that money go? Did that go back to the fund balance? Where where did that go? It went back into the general fund. Okay, very good. Can you say that number one more time? 9,331,372. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Oh, 931,372. It's way more than 9,00 we have the comma. We got Okay. Thank you. Any other questions on dredging? Next line shows an increase to um the budget of $2,255 in telecommunications line. Um do you want to help explain that?

That was something that was asked at the last meeting with all the council having phones now. We just increased that line item. Yeah, just to cover um cell phones for council. I don't have a phone. Mine's back to my regular number. Mayor has since turned his in. It just sits there for nothing. So I guess There' be a little bit of savings there. Probably 40 bucks a month. Yeah, it ain't no difference. But it was a waste. Okay. When um so the new price for that is for 3255. Sounds right.

It's on page two.

Yes, that is the new the new amount. Next line is a decrease in dues and subscriptions line and that's council's budget of $5,000. Again, something that was talked about under in the last uh the last meeting. The next two lines, we'll kind of lump those together. Um talk about them individually though. the receptionist position was removed from this budget which would have been for the the front desk. Um that number reflects the total the base and the associated benefits. Likewise the operations manager position was removed which again that number reflects the um the salary and the benefits. So, $71,36 for the receptionist, $179,572 for the operations manager. Um, we are restructuring current personnel. The employee that currently sits in the reception position is going to move to another position and that employees uh line remains in this budget. So there would be and and the position that she's going to is also funded in this budget. So there is still money that remains to fill that receptionist position once that transition occurs and not until sometime after those after the f start of the fiscal year. Uh sometime after July,

will that individual move to another office or we that individual still be positioned at the front desk? Um they're going to have to move to another office. We talked about the responsibilities and um some projected changes that person's going to move. So h how would we cover the front desk? Well, for the time being until that person's um trained up and ready to make that move, they're going to kind of run back and forth, if you will. Um and then once the budget is approved, once we're in the new year, we'd advertise to fill that front desk position. So hopefully that would that would be uh kind of a quick turnaround.

So do we we are going to add one then if you're going to add a receptionist up there and here I'm my sheet says decrease. We're not so the the way the best way to explain it and to use the title. So we have a person that's in a finance role. That finance role is going to move into the HR line. The HR line is is currently we're currently asking that to be funded in full in this budget. Okay. um which will leave the finance position vacant. We will fund the administration position out of the finance position that remains in this budget. So there'll be a little bit of cost savings there too because it's funded at a higher rate than what we would pay the um receptionist position. Very good. Does that help?

Very much so. Yes. I guess I I guess I just didn't know why you would just not call it a receptionist and not call anything and but I understand how you did it. Everybody understand where we're going with that? Okay. Yeah. So, those positions would be removed for additional savings in this budget. The one question I had though, Ken, regarding that was um the new budget received on 512. Um, for HR, it looks like we have 75,000 budgeted for base and I'm thinking that was going to be 60.

Mhm. Right. So, can that be there's we currently have uh HR being covered in a part-time capacity. Okay. And we anticipate a little bit of overlap while that transition is ongoing. Okay. because there's a lot to that role, especially that it encompasses payroll um that the new employee has to learn. So, we wanted to leave some extra money in there to cover that. So, once we separate with our part-time HR employee, then there there'll be a cost savings in that line at the end of the year. Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

Any other questions with those two positions? the operations manager. Um, we also talked about an assistant town administrator.

We had both of those positions and they've gone away. So, are we clear to think that those were positions that we didn't need in the past? because we did have an individual that was our assistant town administrator and we did have a person that was our project manager, not operations manager. So, did we not need those positions in the past or tell us what has changed now that is different that that wouldn't be needed? We we don't want to cut too lean where you're not having the assistance that you need to run the town.

Sure. And and I'll be quite honest with you. I mean, there's a lot of a lot of hard conversations about personnel. So, when we're looking at trying to take some things out, it's one of the first places I went is personnel. Um because arguably that's one of our most expensive places in this budget. Um the project management position, um as you know, right now that's being covered by our public works um director. Projects are kind of flatlining, if you will. So, I don't know that um you know that we're going to have major projects on the horizon where we say, "Wow, we need we need a we need an in-house project manager." So, I I feel pretty confident at least in the next fiscal year that we're not going to need that position. As far as um you know, an assistant um an operations manager to to help with the day-to-day, um you know, there's there's been a lot of changes in this town in the short period of time that y'all been on council. um you know our finance director here is uh going 100 miles an hour even on weekends.

So she's doing a tremendous job. Um I think once the dust settles, we get through the budget and you know I I don't I don't anticipate the need for that position with that dollar amount um right now. I just don't see it. Okay. unless you see otherwise. I mean, I I would hope that you would tell me if uh you know, there's something if there's a shortcoming on my side that uh that you see, but um

well, I think moving forward, you know, we have in here a total compensation of like 150,000 for the town administrator role. Mhm. Um and you know parts in this admin and parts in police right now with you doing the dual role. Um my concern is the 150 for town administrator and looking at other town administrators and what we may need somebody with a master's in this and you know experience. I'm a little concerned. Are we going to be able to get somebody for 150 or is it going to need to be like a 175 type of price range? Um, regarding that, especially if we don't have

an, you know, the operations position that was discussed to assist with things. Um, I guess I'm just a little concerned. Do we need to bump that one up a little bit? Um, knowing Well, there's there's salary that was put into my line for doing the dual role. If we hire a town administrator, that money's not going to be spent, right? That money could be reappropriated because we were at 150 with that. And quite honestly, if you told me today to advertise for the position, um my recommendation would be to hire a firm. I don't think it's it's such an important position. I don't think it's something that we should do in house. My recommendation would be to hire a firm. Um we're probably looking at five months. I know to get it filled.

Yeah. So 150, even if we negotiate at 175, we'll be okay because we we wouldn't hire somebody until, you know, a few months into that fiscal year, there'd be a savings from what was budgeted in my line that would be removed and that could be added to the to the line for the town administrator. Okay, agree. Does that make sense? That does make sense. Yeah. And you know, at the end of the day, too, that that each month that we don't have that town administrator, I suppose that money is just is it's there that we could reappropriate if later needed. Other questions on those positions?

Next is in the finance department a decrease of $500 in telecommunications. Alicia, that was discussed at the last council meeting and I just did reduced it $500. We only have two phones currently finance.

The next line was what was discussed with the police uh position in the uh with our uh administrative assistant to reclassify that position that was initially removed. Council asked that that be put back and that's what you see there. We eliminated a part-time position in the police department uh that we're not going to fill, which is roughly 10,000 plus benefits for the year. Next line is a decrease in a detective position. We have an anticipated or well, and it's it's anticipated, but we have an employee who submitted a resignation or a retirement letter rather. We're happy he's retiring. um August one. So, we budgeted for one month and we are not going to backfill that position as we determine um what's going to be best for our needs going forward. We're not asking I want to throw in the caveat. We're not asking to eliminate the position. We're just not going to we're asking not to fund it in the fiscal year. That's a cost savings of uh over $55,000.

Okay. Was that done mainly just to try to reduce cost or because you feel like you can possibly handle that? Both. Okay. I didn't know. Both. How many detectives is detectives now? Do we have two uniformed detectives and one um and then one full-time detective? That's who's retiring. Um so we're going to again just kind of restructure that uh unit and see where we land after the end of the year. Okay. Thank you for doing that. Yes, ma'am.

The next line is a decrease in the fire department's budget. Uh we had discussed they have the money remained that remained in this year to do their LVPN and carpet project. So they decreased that line by $6,200. They're going to handle that this year. Tires were a hot button topic last meeting. Tires were uh Well, we want you all to be safe. We want tires. Yeah,

we want tires and we got them. They're in the budget. Chief can buy $5,000 worth of tires if this is approved. So, the tires are the tire cut that he uh put in there was put back in. The next line is a another conversation was had last month or last meeting with the inspections position. The reclassification of an employee and car's department that was put back into this budget, which is a $12,436 increase for benefits. Sir. Yes sir.

That increase for inspections. However, anything the inspections money that is ex every all the money that inspection gets from their from their inspections has to be used in inspections anyway.

Correct. That is not coming out of uh that's Yeah. Carry self-sufficient. Yeah. I wish other departments were similar, but they're not unfortunately. But Carrie is self-sufficient. Um yeah, so you're you're absolutely right, Mr. Puzzle. Next line shows um a change where we brought forward encumbered money that was we know is not going to be spent this year for the the load and pack truck, $212,180. So at the end of this fiscal year, that money will remain. We're going to apply it towards capital in the FY27 budget. Would that be right

that 212? It Where did it go? Um, wait. It could be used for roads or it could be used for the capital that's already in the budget.

Yeah. I don't know that we took it and said, "All right, $212 $212,000 is going specifically here. It's just going to our our total anticipated revenue, if you will. I don't know if revenue is the right word, but available funds for FY27. So, is it on a page? Is it on a page in our budget or not? It's it's on the revenue page. Okay. That's what we use to balance it. It's on page 205, the general fund revenue.

Okay. Appropriation from fund balance. Okay, I see it. Any other questions on that? We talked about the decrease in the power bill fund previously. We have an increase shown in the accommodations tax fund of $13,000. And this is to look at contracting with a company that could help us to ensure that we're collecting taxes as we should be. Um there was a company that has had reached out and offered that service. I think it would be appropriate to do an RFP, but um I think that number would be a not to exceed if this is approved in this budget to see if we can get that done and hopefully that would be successful and we could easily at least get that money back.

Yes. And maybe then some. Is is $13,000 enough to cover that for like a whole year? It is. Based on the company that reached out, um this would cover their quote. Okay. Um, so I figure if we put it up for bid and see where we're at, um, with a not to exceed that because we know at least one vendor is is able to do it for slightly less than that.

Mr. Arnold, Miss Bachelor and I met this lady in Raleigh um, last week or week before and she shared with us what her services were and we thought 13,000 was very good. We know that the other I think Mr. puzzle you had shared with us before U-Haul had spent um several thousands of dollars and didn't get anything for it. So, right um that that's why you see that there. Yes. You're welcome. Yeah. The other contracts were like 41,000 I believe they were high and then when we happened to meet her at City Vision, we asked her what what about what it cost because we believe we have an issue with our accommodations tax and

she literally ran it and emailed it to us while we were driving back from Raleigh. And sometimes they find better ways to do it and they can do it cheaper. Yeah, she showed us a lot of the tools that she could employ. Um it was not just, you know, going on the internet looking. It was actual um I think the internet's evolved more. Um there's search. All of that has changed now. Um and so I'm sure there's some AI involved somewhere because you think about advances in AI. It's a more robust system than what we had purchased before. Yeah. I'd ran a lot of AI stuff too to get some of that stuff I'd initially got, but then some I could just pull up off the internet and see it wasn't quite right. So, um, okay, that's good.

Thank you. Next line shows a decre a decrease in the accommodations task fund task tax fund uh for workers comp that was discussed earlier. Uh, and a decrease in the beach erosion fund of $485,000. Uh, Alicia, you want to help me explain that one a little bit? Can you tell us what page you're on with that so we can make sure? Beach erosion is it's new version I don't have marked. Um, the beach erosion fund the revenue is page 505.

Okay, thank you. We brought forward fund balance last last time we presented the budget, but after talking to Matt, he thinks he can do all the walkways that he needs to do for 530,000, which is our annual revenue. So, we did not need to bring any fund balance forward. The last budget we talked about, was Matt going to do more walkways? And I asked Matt after that meeting and he said the other walkways are in pretty good repair. So, there's no need to to do any right now. We're sitting in pretty good shape. It also said to put in pretty grants. Yeah. Again, go ahead and start doing that again. Hopefully get money

to do future ones. Yeah. What was disappointing that the grants didn't get applied for, but we forwarded through some stuff. I don't know if they've looked at that from Raleigh where at City Vision where we met some vendors that the league of municipalities is paying for their services and they said that all hope is not lost if we miss the deadline. So, I would love for us to get on that to um and I put that out in the email um last week that

and I did forward that on Vicki. For me, I think we just might need to keep that at a, you know, track that to make sure it happens because the ladies we spoke with there, they were like, um, that's what they they do all the time. I mean, that is their bread and butter. And to me, while that is a free service offered to us as the membership with the league, we need to take advantage of that. And if nothing else, get the forms apply. Go ahead and get them this year to help fill out the forms that need to be submitted next year as well. So, they're good to go. Mhm. Is this someone that brought a rank for you? Yes. Okay. That that will they do it all and um that like I said that's their that's their expertise in their company. Very good.

This budget still contains a 2 and 12% cola

a 2% merit. As discussed, it does contain longevity and step as one-time payments. As the mayor mentioned, it was discussed that employees last year were told they were going to get this this money. They're told they're going to get the step. Um, I know from the police department side that this step program when approved by council, we didn't set out and say, "All right, well, let's hurry up and find out things we can send people to for STEP." We're still going to train. If you eliminate STEP, we're going to train people. Um, it's not in it's not who I am to say, well, if they're not paying us, we're not going to do it. I mean, we're going to do our job so that we don't bring liability to the town or to ourselves. So, we're going to continue to train, but we left it in there as a one-time payment because these employees for a year have look forward to that. Um, and that's why we had put it in there that way. Um, longevity, same way. It would be the the last time that it would be paid. Um, if either of those programs were to be reworked at the direction of council, we would do that and then bring it back to you next year for consideration. Um, but I don't have my spreadsheet here in front of me either to show what those numbers are if we want to say what those onetime payments would be. Do you have those? Oh, wait. It's on page two. I do have it. Go ahead.

Okay. Longevity would be at 70,778 and the step would be 124,912. You do longevity again. 772 70,778. And what was step you were showing? 124 124 912. Does that include the training in there? Trading cost. That is just the salary and benefits. Okay. That was like another to 100,000.

Now can I ask a question? This these two longevity and step is it going in as salary or is it going in as a separate the bonus check? Okay. So that won't be we won't have to worry about adding 2 and a half% on cola on top of these. Right. Any the cola figures were figured on base. Okay. in the current base. And the way the cola works is it's an adjustment to the pay scale for anybody that's not certain on how that works. So if you make $10 now and you get a cola, they'll make I don't know $11 when the cola goes through. So they uh um it changes the base. Yeah.

Any other questions on those? The next line talks about dependent care coverage. We left the dependent care coverage at 50% for current employees with a proposed reduction for anybody hired after July 1. This would include vacant positions, any turnover, anybody lose through attrition um at 25%. So those new employees that would come into the town would be compensated at 25% for their dependent healthcare or I guess it would be funded at 25%. The town administrator position we talked about at $150,000. Council voted unanimously to remove the roll cart position at the last regular council meeting. Uh the anticipation with that position was in early discussions that perhaps it would be eliminated in January of uh 2027 and Matt wanted to then have that person move into a part-time maintenance position. Since that position, the roll car position is not going to be filled. Matt wants to fill that position now, the part-time maintenance position. So, uh that money was just moved from one classification to the other. You know, when that roll cart discussion came up, it was that he had identified somebody that was capable of doing that job, but that individual wanted more dollars. That's kind of how that came up with all of us. Do y'all remember that?

Yeah. Came up. Yeah. It came up that way. Um, so are you saying that that that was a normal position that was already there and we're just or is it a new position? It was we we've always had a roll cart position. Um, recently we haven't had a roll cart position and they were actively recruiting to find someone. So they have existing staff covering the roll cart position. Um, so when Yeah. They were just they've been looking to replace it. So it's not really a new position. It's not. Okay. No, it's just and this just signifies that that money is being moved from one line to another. Okay. So, it's it's a title change if anything. If we don't have roll cart, it's just maintenance. Okay.

Well, it's disheartening that that money could that that position in person if you're going to file it for maintenance. Why they couldn't have stayed roll, you know, roll cart because we were told you couldn't fill it and there was nobody to do it. So, now it's being moved to um I understand maintenance. Yeah. I want to make sure I understand what you said. It's disheartening that we didn't Well, we were told they couldn't get anybody to to fill the position when it was advertised. Somebody was going to take the job. That's correct. They were going to do it and then there was nobody to do it. So, that's why there was the rush to us to meet on to discuss it and make a decision where before we had said, "Let's look at it in the fall in the off season."

I don't think the rush was so much because we couldn't fill it. It was because of other concerns that had came up. Um maybe a little bit of both. I thought we increased the uh hourly rate. We we did increase the hourly rate for that person and that's how it all kind of blossomed out with um you know we got a lot of calls about legality and all that and that's how we we did away with it. Um, so it did start that way that the individ and we approved more money for that. We did, right? So, but well, like I said, there's still a lot of discussions about roll cart. I'm getting them all the time. Oh, yeah.

But, but to me, it's discouraging that we're now move creating a position and maintenance for that with those funds. So, but anyway, that's or there. I want to get my cart rolled back every Wednesday, but obviously uh I don't think I can get the person from public works to come all the way down my street do that. I noticed that on one of our line items um landscaping had increased

um and that does have a little parallel with this individual. So or not individual but this position. So where it increased the landscaping and it may have decreased. You know, we've looked at so many of these budgets the last two or three days. We've got so many versions. But do you all know where that is? I think it may be in either public works or public buildings. Maybe the build

public buildings. You got your ground maintenance on that. What page is that? That's five to 19. That's That's You got ground maintenance on there. Is that the one? Did it increase? $19,000. Okay. So, on page nine. No. Would you say page five? This one's page five of 19.

Okay. So, we got um in line item 350, we've got um a $50,000 increase repair maintenance to all buildings, landscaping. It's got in parentheses 95,000 overall on that that increase. And my question is, did landscaping increase or is that something else that we're do? Is that another task that we've asked that contractor to do that would lighten the load for the public works department?

No. Um, the RFPs went out with that additional request for a bid for island work, but there was I had zero direction from council that we were going to accept any of those bids because of the cost. They It just was it wasn't sustainable. The E1 mowing. Exactly. E1. Yeah, I think we all said no to that, right? Didn't or we I think we consent. Yes or no?

The other is the maintenance throughout the town that normally it's been like 90,000. I think our contracts came in between 90 and 92,000 plus a little extra more things like irrigation breaks or stuff like that. So that's the 95. Mhm. And then the flowers and mulch and stuff I know are not part of that contract like the town buys at cost pays for it cost the right flowers and mulch. Um yeah I'll have to find out um Alicia unless you know the justification for the 50,000 increase in that line. Okay.

Because it's got repairs and maintenance to all public buildings. I don't know what that and the grounds maintenance supplies etc. The 25 is that a separate do we know the details of that the 351 line? Yeah, I see what you're looking at. Unfortunately, it's a Matt question as well.

Okay. U continuing down the list on the screen there just two lines remaining. Um this budget shows the cola included for the vacant and the new employees. And just a note that uh cola and merit are based on the original salary, not any sort of temporary increases. Do you want to cover the second page here for them? Alan, if you can I don't have the clicker. Oh, that's it. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. We want to talk about Yes, discuss that

council had asked us to look at the fund balance policy and what it would be at 95%. And just based on the numbers from the 6:30 2025 audit, which fund balance always fluctuates, the unassigned fund balance at June 30, 2025 was 11,787,317. You divide that number by the general fund expenditures for the year, which was 11,62,568. So, which gave you the 106.55%. So to get it down to 95% um we could reduce fund balance to 10,509440 which is basically like $1.2 million reduction.

Can we have that number again? The 10 million um 10 million509440.

But fund balance you take the beginning fund balance from the audit. You basically say your net changes which is your revenue minus your expenditures. You get the ending total fund balance and then from that you have to pull out the um amount of accounts receivable because you can't spend accounts receivable. The PAL bill funds that are restricted and then any money you have left over for parking and inspections and that is your unassigned fund balance. And you take the at that unassigned fund balance and you divide it by the general fund expenditures for the year. That was a little over one million what was what was the total one left 1.2 million

1.2 million 1.2 is what it would free up if council elected to reduce the fund balance to 95%. If you did so then that 1.2 two would be at your discretion to for the three that I've got written down here. Road, storm, water, and dredging if you so chose. How does that compare with the norm? The example that I gave um

I think I got a sample ordinance on it from Ocean Beach and they're they're at 80%. 80. So 95 would leave us in in a in a pretty good position and that could be fluid. I mean that that could be something that council chooses to adopt every year um along with the bud with at the budget time to say 95 100 92 wherever you wanted to be.

M are you I guess do you have access to our peer group information? our former finance director shared that with us that our peer group um you know the way that we assess what is the appropriate amount percentage to have in a fund balance and she had assured us that what we had in there was the right number um and I know the numbers that you just mentioned was um for the fund balance was taken at at audit time right so that fluctuates from time to time so

just want to make sure that we're not miscommunicating with our public that we have 106 we may have 106% right now once we start moving money and buying things it fluctuates a little bit and so how do we ascertain that normal number that average everyday number that's the one thing and the other thing is um you know before we really look at reducing the fund balance which I'm not saying And I'm against it. I'm just saying I'd like for us to know what our peer group is doing because that's the way in local government that's the way we measure what an appropriate amount of fund balance should be retained.

The email that come out was was from Ocean. It showed theirs was 80%. It covered 9 and a half months is what they predicted that that money would be over. So, you know, in reality, ours pushing it at 95%. And if we locked it in where it could never go below 95%, we're virtually looking at a year out is what the projections look like just just from that one that we got. And this number at 106 was as of 63025 because that does fluctuate, right? Fun is like blood pressure. It goes it's like this goes up and down depending how the day goes. And there's going to be a carryover uh from this fiscal year to the next.

What's what's the estimate on the carryover right now? What are y'all thinking? Or have you got any preliminary numbers on that? You have a best my best guess is a half a million.

Well, our best guess when we talked amongst ourselves, we had thought it was going to be four to 500,000 because we know what we've cut and um so it would be good to have a firm number on that the next time we meet. And it would be good to know um what our peer group what that recommendation is. So, what you have before you then um represents, as you see on page one of 19, the proposed um 12,447,000 budget, which is a decrease of $832,440 over FY2526. Can I ask one more question for sure? Um well maybe be more than one. Uh the 1.2 million fund which we said we may have available for fund balance. Uh does that have to be earmarked or anything right at the moment when we decide or can we can dip into it if something comes up in the next 12 months?

Um I think council can approve the policy but you do not have to earmark it at this time. Okay. If you were to appropriate it, you'd have to put it in a line. Okay. Otherwise, you'd have to do a budget amendment to move it later. Oh. All right. One of the things I want to point out too that is in this budget in where's the parking revenue pages? Yeah, bring that out. that was found out yesterday or actually day before yesterday.

Parking program page 105 services charges am I right? Parking program

is uh showing $240,000 and we were under the impression that uh we had to use those monies only for parking. And I had let the council know prior to my trip to Raleigh that uh the proposal for us to be able to use that parking money as we wished was going to committee. Um I had a meeting with Representative Eer while I was in Raleigh and he shared with me that in 2016. It was approved. Our charter was changed that we can use proceeds from parking in the same manner which proceeds from off- streetet parking facilities are used. which mean we can we can use it for whatever we want as of 2016. So had they passed that bill, it would have been illegal because there was already one that says that we can do it. So when they went to research that bill, that's when he called and I called you because he was like, "Y'all already been been eligible to do this." Somebody just dropped the ball before and didn't pull it up. But it had been changed in 2016 in that bill. He sent the bill number to me and that's when I react

sent it to you and then you met with him got everything wrote out and all the print off on it. So we're good to go there. Yep. House Bill 469. Y it would be good to make sure that Excuse me, Miss Ber. It would be good um for us to know exactly how much money we've already put in the fund or for parking, whatever it is, whatever the number is, and to make sure that we make that hole again, reimburse that hole before we start spending any money on anything. I think that needs to be a We have that number. Agreed. Oh, okay. What is

right now? We've spent $215,000 more than we have received. So that's why in the budget you're showing a revenue of 240,000, but if you look at the expenses, it's only budgeted for 25,000 so we can get our money back for the general fund. Did you happen to recall what number it was that we spent overall on the parking

for the island the island parking plan as she's looking for that? One of the things we need to consider too is as this parking study continues, their recommendations for the spots that were marked as red were that they be completely removed. Um, and I don't know how many inches thick that concrete ribbon is, but we're not digging that out with a shovel. So, we may have to um we might have to contract that out. Yep. And that would come out of the whole parking program. Yes, ma'am. Yep. And I think that would alleviate a lot of confusion because I get asked daily what's that to this morning I was asked by people that don't even live in sunset.

I know it's I know it's a different topic but yeah we're working on getting the cracks fixed soon as well. How are they doing? I mean how are the cracks and are there any new I don't know if there's any new there probably are some new um that's not going to be fixed. New ones won't be fixed. what's been identified prior will, but that's going to be we're going to have to rope off some more spots when they do start getting fixed. Yeah. So, we'll need to make sure that we keep money in a fund to repair those kind of costs because we know the concrete ribbons did not have rebar in it. We know that concrete that doesn't have rebar in it is going to deteriorate quicker. Um, so we want to make sure we have a nice look out there. Yeah,

there's questionable. Um, but there there are more cracks in in them. I've I've seen more cracks and I think also there's, you know, there's large trucks parking on them and a lot of people are parking on the ribbon, not where they're supposed to be in the gravel. So, I think that's also, you know, is going to add to those cracks over time as well. And obviously we have a lot of construction going on, you know, with between parking and the focus on the island. There's a lot, you know, it looks lovely. I had one thing on the I don't know if now's the time, but I had something on the public buildings.

Okay. Before we I'm sorry. Alicia's got a number. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I found where we spent $566,000. The majority of that went to Graham Construction for $448,426. And we're not done paying them. Correct. We're not. Yeah. Now, we still have money uh set aside for that project. Right. Okay. Good. And that was for the concrete ribbons. Well, I the whole parking project

I think my We could probably get this number later. The number that I was asking for is the total project over there, the total island parking from the gravel that we put down to all the signs, the the poles that the signs are on, all the labor cost of our employees. Um, you may not have that number, but I think council should know that number. That's what this number includes was um all of that. Oldman, M, Graham, Auto, McGill, Labor, and Public Works. And that number is 566 341 563

566 341 I'm sorry. One more time on that. Five 566 341. Thank you. What was you want to ask, please?

Um, on page five of 19 of this budget, the public buildings page for general fund on the, um, account 194, the first one, professional services, um, that was 150,000 and it was decreased by 100,000. So, our remaining is 50,000 for project engineering services. And my question was, I know we've bid out for engineering services and typically when you onboard another, if we go with another company, whenever we on board them and get everything up, we're going to get build on some stuff. Um I would assume unless that's been negotiated not to to get them to get up to speed with stuff in our town and look at to me they also need to look at all what we have of surveys and all that stuff and get that all loaded in their system. So I don't know if they're doing all that or if we're going to be charged an hourly rate to do that. I would assume it's an hourly rate but don't know the details of that. That's something to think about for that to make sure we have enough for onboarding as well as any projects because we know we all know anything they do seems to be $10,000 to do anything even a little bit of something. And you know I know it was said that Majestic Oaks Park was in there is all of the money for engineering services covered in the Majestic Oak because that is a project we have coming up that's going to be gearing up. So, I would assume whoever's doing that, even if it's, you know, what, whichever engineering firm is, we're going to have costs there. So, we want to make sure we've got enough because $50,000 can go real quickly when you're dealing with engineering companies.

And we had talked about um if we do make a switch, we talked about this at our last meeting, to let our current engineer complete projects that they're already in the middle of. And I met with our engineer today about Majestic Oaks and he's very confident that with the the changes that were made to take us back to phase one, there's a couple variables with lighting and landscaping that we're going to bring to you. But just for the phase one, he's very confident that there's sufficient money to Okay. Just want to make sure we have fun enough because to me 50,000 isn't a lot for a town in engineering services.

While we're on this page, um M. Armstrong, could you talk about our debt service to Majestic Oak, what we owe on it? Yes, I'm talking about the property that we purchased in I think maybe 2022. You want the amount of the debt service payments or do you want the total balance?

The total amount, please. How much we owe on that piece of property? Okay, this was from the last audit report. Um, principal is 1 million 56,254. Interest was 382964.

What terms are that? What's 15 year, 10 year? Well, it pays out in 2037. So they did a 15year loan. Is that what we did? I think like 15year loan. Y what was the interest on it? Interest payments 382964.

And then while we're on this page if if I could um there's centa services and then we also have intermixed in different people's budgets different departments. We have uniforms. Um, I understand your uniform and I understand the fire uniform. The public works, do they use Centas for their uniforms or do we buy them uniforms?

They use a vendor that launderers for them. I believe I think it's in their budget, they also have a line item for uniforms. What would that be for? Is that a duplication? That would probably be things that aren't Well, that's the simple answer. Things that aren't provided by Cintas, but it doesn't answer the question. Would it be like shoes or boots, gloves? Yes. Okay. Outerw wear. Cintas provides like pants and shirts, just basics, right?

Yeah. Because there I had that as the question because the uniforms were showing 15,000. I said ask if other uniforms and then there was another um let me find the other one here. We have it in storm water as well. Yeah, all the departments had and I was like that's a lot. Then there was a 4,000 in storm water and then there was a sanit sanitation that come on. Let me see. There was a lot a lot of new forms. Um and I made note of that too. Well, it did look like it was duplications. um you know, you have a uniform that's provided, laundered and all that through CentOS and then there was um a large amount of money for uniforms. Yeah,

we get coats and hats and boots. I mean, we get all that, but it just seems like it's a large number.

So, I know I can't speak for Matt, of course, but I know in the police department, you know, some of the things that we get um that are applied to that uniform line are not per se. I don't know a ballistic vest is could be classified as a uniform but has expiration expiration date on it. Um so don't you know I don't know what else Matt has in that department that would come out of his uniform line but don't just think in terms I guess of boots, hats, gloves, wearable kind of things. Um he should have an equipment align. Yeah, he's got

because it was like 19,000 for nine employees. It seemed hot, but but a lot some of that we also, you know, are employees moving or is the rental thing that much of the cleaning of their outfits. Um, you know, we also have that in storm water, too. And that's the same department, right? And that's, you know, for the nine employees, they handle both. So, if you could just get back in touch with us on what those are about. It just seems high. You know, we're trying to find every dollar we can for a road.

Are you Are you done? Are we done on that? I've got a question on back on page five, the public building on account number 560, department infrastructure. We did have 785,000 budgeted and now we have zero budgeted for this coming upcoming fiscal year. And my question was um do we not need to budget if something goes wrongs or breaks or something needs to be fixed in our public buildings because um a lot you know a lot can happen. So maybe it's budgeted somewhere else. I'm just wasn't sure on that. It's on page five and it's account number 560 under public buildings department infrastructure. I think that was the $535,000 for Main Street parking and also there was $250,000 in this year's current budget for improvements to town hall. That's what 700 and that makes up that seven um

and I did know that's what that was. But my thing is going forward for this next physical year, is there nothing that's going to be done to any of the buildings? Because I believe that's where that would come out of. There's $150,000 in facilities repair and maintenance. So, as far as any other improvements now, there's no improvements planned for the next fiscal year. Okay. We're doing a major project in this building, which is So, the carpet and painting and all that, all of that is already included in this year's budget in the current fiscal year. Yes, ma'am. And no additional Yeah. No additional monies next year.

Okay. A lot of the stuff too, keep in mind facilities repair and maintenance. We have employees in house now that do the bulk come out of that stuff. So unless something really breaks off that they can't handle, but that's got a pretty talented staff that's been taking good care of these buildings for us. All right. I guess the next step is direction. Yeah. Where coming out coming out of this one today from the information we have

going back. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. Sorry. for on page seven under police department telecommunications. It's showing 20,000 there. And then just looking across at some of the other categories for Telcom and I know y'all y'all and fire may have different cuz like y'all was 20 and fire was $7,000. Um so there was like a $13,000 difference there. I don't know if that's because of I know I don't know all the details of y'all's telecommunication stuff but just making sure I can gladly share those

right because I know some of our other telecon stuff have changed and I did ask for reports on that and honestly I got them yesterday and I didn't have time to look at them it's overwhelming those every um our officers all have phones right in order for them to get call pages they come to their phone they can't go to the personal phone um we have a program with our records management, which is how we take police reports, document incidents, take pictures of things that we can access that on our on our phone. So when we're in a call, we can access those things. Uh again, it's not a best practice to have an employees or personal device for anything workrelated because it is subject to public records. It's subject to subpoena, right?

Um and we have in every one of our cars, we have a mobile data computer that has to be powered by a MiFi. So for every one phone there's a MFI which is a separate charge. So you'll see a cell phone bill and a a MiFi bill for for every officer. Okay. That's why that's a a greater increase. Fire has those MFI devices as well. But there uh where we have 20ish of those. He probably has less than 10. Three less than five. Okay. Thank you. Just make sure. Any other questions on that? You got another I think that's a couple.

I'm looking. Let me check cuz I got three on each sheet here. Some have been answered.

Hey, when when the dredging money comes in of all the money comes in, what will you do with all that? It's going back into the general funds. Okay. and a payment comes in September. Is that right? Is that when some of the money we recoup this coming year? Is it September when it come starts coming in? I think I was told it was I think September. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's what Tara had told us back before that September is when we would look for that money to come in and it would go back in the general fund to cover where we had took it out in the past or where, you know, had been taken out favor. find another

I think that's most that some others are for Matt and so it will just hold those.

Okay. So coming out of this today this this budget that you just presented to us there were a couple questions on a couple of things but it was not about going up. It was to see if there was any kind of savings there. So, as with this budget that is presented right now, is this a balanced budget as far as the money goes without taking I heard you say something at the end about there's going to be some money left over and that could be a half million dollars that we could figure out what to do with that. But in taking without that in here right now, without the percentage of the 106 down to 95%. Is this what was just presented to us? Is this a balance

without changing the fund balance without any fund balance forward with the exception of the 2121 180 which was the encumbered money for the load and back back and play back and play. Uh it is a balanced budget. Good. It's good. And then anything that's left, we can figure out what this could be put into roads, dredging, storm water, and you're saying that's possibly a half a million dollars. And that's that's even without touching this fund balance or this whatever you want to call it, the 106%. That still leaves that out there if we need. And that's just to to me the way I look at that thing is

you got a checking account, you got a savings account. If you get in a bind and something comes up and you got to have that money, you can put it in, but you can also put it back into that savings. Is that correct?

Yes. Good. Good. Where we need to go from here? any direction from the board as far as I know we spent a lot of time at the beginning of this meeting talking about personnel and u mainly longevity step colola merit um you know one of the changes that was for future positions at 25% um the I guess the operations manager you need to know if that if you want that to be funded. And then some numbers to give us if if we're if we're making more changes. What do you want to put in roads? What do you want to put in storm water? Is $135,000 in the dredging fund sufficient? Um so give us some direction and we can come back with hopefully a final budget that we can take get a public hearing on and pass in June. We've got 10 days to come up with a public hearing. Is that correct? It has to be

10 days. Is that right? Our next meeting is June the 1st, which every town that I've talked to, every mayor that I've talked to, theirs is coming up at their next meeting. So, we really need to push to try to get it in here at that next meeting. Would it be inappropriate for us to vote on accepting the budget with the changes we discussed as being the final budget? We can't vote on a budget until we have a public hearing. Well, we can say that this is a proposed budget. Is that what you're

asking? We have a lot of we still have a lot of unresolved issues. Um

it may be a balanced budget, but it's a budget that does not speak well to the taxpayers. The taxpayers aren't getting any projects. They're not getting any any more roads. I I I know you said we wanted to wait till the end and we're at the end. So, we still don't know what the number for the roads are. We have identified three roads that are going to cost us $400,000 roughly. But could we do better? Yes, we can do better. We should do better. Our public is asking us to do. We had people that came and spoke to us. We have to take the good and the bad. The public that spoke, we had the taxpayer association. We had other folks to come. We don't have enough in here for infrastructure. We don't have any type of capital investment. Um,

Adam. Yes, sir. I hate to interrupt. I've just got a question. Uh, do you have a number in mind as what you would like to see in roads? That's what we keep asking for when we keep referring back to this road survey. We've identified some roads that that are not on the three that Mr. Sorlles gave us. So I don't know what those numbers are. That's what we keep asking him for. And until we get those numbers, we could throw a half a million dollars into there and say

a million dollars. We already have 400. So another 600,000 to be a million dollars in our roads this year. I mean, is that what you're asking? Well, I said we could throw it in the 600,000. Make it a million. And because we as the cost for paving is going to go up. Yes. As much as the oil, our gasoline goes up, our oil, it's going to go up. So the question is, no matter which number we choose, it's a we're it's a guess. Yeah. So are you comfortable with increasing it by 600,000? Yeah,

I I think I am too. Um, so that would be a million and I I would be comfortable with that. I think though we need to hear back from Matt on what that gets us based on because his stuff has changed a lot. I feel like I mean I got an email from this morning changing stuff. So it's kind of what you know we we need a one-pager. This is what the plan is to do with roads coming from public works.

Madam Bachelor, the biggest problem I have with him providing you with a paper, let's say, and said, "Here's what we can afford to do based on the rehab." Is that next month that paper you could tear up because it's probably going to change. So we say, "Here's how much we have. How much can we fit in? Which road can we get done by the worst and going down the line?" But but if we have let's say we have let's let's use the number 10 roads. Let's say we have 10 roads that can be attacked. We if we're given a million dollars into that because we know stuff's going up. Let's get a vendor in here. Get get pricing bulk. You can get discounts that they're here working on several projects in a time versus doing each little peace meal. Just like what he said about Clubhouse Road. If we bust that into two projects, what does that's going to cost us more money. So to me, do you know but to me if we can bump it all together and say what's our cost on you you bringing your crews in here and knocking all this out at Sunset Beach

and to me versus getting a price on every little thing if one road's 50 50,000. Well, we might have could gotten that road for 30,000 if it was bumped in with a $600,000 project. Does that make sense? What I'm saying? Well, yeah. Yes. If I have my house half, if I ask somebody to put a roof in my house, but I only want them to do the front half this year and the back half next year, it's going to cost me more money. Mr. Claymore, would you like to say something about the monies that we

We put a million dollars in this uh in this fund. Uh, and we said that's for future paving projects. I don't know that during the budget time that we need to necessarily say it's for road A, B, C, and D and and possibly E. We know we have a million dollars and we're going to do whatever a million dollars will get us, then that's what we do. Um, that's fair. I don't think we need to have the streets by name. We know we've identified the three worst. So, if we're going to have another $600,000 to to use towards streets, then we look at what we can do for 600. Can we do the next two worst? Can we do the next one and a half worst? Um, but to identify them in a budget meeting, I think. Right. Okay. Moving on to storm water.

Storm water. We we know we live on the coast. We know we have storm water issues. We had I think four four projects. We have $230,000 proposed in this budget as a placeholder for storm storm water projects. Could we increase that? We can. We just got to find it. Well, because we have I don't want to short change this because if you live on a street and it gets um water on it,

I can only imagine I don't live on one of those streets, but I can only imagine what that would be for some of our property owners that can't have access. Um and we see that the the project that we're just doing now, we we see that that's had problems. Catchment 7 has had problems. Um, you know, these things cost a lot. I'd rather get them done sooner than later. What's your number? Another half a million in addition to the 230 or half a million. Were you asking for a number? I just want to be sure I'm clear on what that half a million was, ma'am.

So, it's 280 now, right? 230. 230 now. So, if you do another half million, that would be 730. And I Mr. claimer. I don't know if that's a a number the right number or not. Mr. Sorlles would be the expert in that to tell us um you know what's aging. Um I know he has camera systems that he can go look. He may have a wish list that he could give us that these catchments need to be sure

cleaned out and you know some of them may just need to be cleaned out. That may cost us some money to do that. Um it's a good probably a good practice for us to go in there and clean them out all the time anyway so when the waters come they can um get to where they need to get to the canals. Yeah. And I think if Matt like said can give direction on that that this is what he thinks would to really make a dent and do what needs to be done not just keep postponing some of this indefinitely. Um, dredging has $135,000 um suggested to put into that fund.

Well, 200k is what was recommended by the um engineering firm that's doing their dredging. Um so, um that that was an you know just off the ballpark estimate. So that' be an increase of 65,000. Yeah. Christy, I'm sorry. Did you do are you saying you want an additional 200,000 for drones? You said additional drones. What they said would be basically about 200,000 because they've got to do all the per you know all the permitting looking at all the environmental stuff and all that stuff. Um,

I'm happy to go back and rework these numbers, but I'm also happy to take recommendations for where you would like to decrease other appropriate or other suggested appropriations to help us fund these because we're looking at probably $750,000. half of, if my math is right, over half of it is supposed to be available. If we've got this 500 that if we do fund balance, if you get into that fund balance going from 106 to 95, that's going to free up that would do that a whole lot. So,

would it be too much to ask once again for the dates of all of our employees, what their training was, what the date was, what the total cost of that training was to the taxpayers. We have those numbers. They were I believe they were sent. Okay. You have the dates that everybody took the class classes. Yes. Okay. Chief, correct me if I'm wrong. Those dates were sent. Correct. Because we keep asking for those and um so I can resign. They may get lost in the shuffle. We got a lot of a lot of emails going back.

Like to have the classes that they took. I don't I don't think we care about the name, but I think we care about the position. the position that the employee had, what the date of the class, what the cost were. We do have the cost but not the date and how will that particular training improve their job. And remember we talked about when we asked for this, we wanted to know from no um excuse me October I think it was October 15th when they council approved this I I do have it. I'm sorry. It's um October the 6, 2025 is when the um council prior council approved it to the date that we gave you was um April the 7th and then to see what that could be. Um, and if if we choose to do that though, I I think we need to look at do they also get an additional merit? And I think the answer to that could be no because they've already they've that is their merit. Um, and then do we do away with longevity or do we redo it where it's more reasonable to, you know, where it's more affordable to us? I mean, you got to find some money somewhere and it's not like it's going to drop out of the ceiling. We've got to look at um and it it hurts to say that because I know we want our employees to make as much money as they can, but we've got to find it somewhere.

We want to keep them, too. We want to be able to attract people to come here. And that STEP program was a way to get an employee to come in the door that has 10 years of experience, a lot of certifications, perhaps a degree, and offer them more than $53,000 a year. Without it, we don't have that. Um and then we're we're up again against you know other agencies which I spent some time with local agencies in Raleigh this weekend who talked about um you know our our local municipality a large a large uh agency perhaps starting r's going to be over 60,000 and just on the other side of the county line they're looking at numbers in the 70s. Um, so we're not we're not getting rich at $53,000 a year. Um, the STEP program, it's it's yeah, it's it's expensive upfront, but so is a 2 and a.5% cola and a 2% merit across the board. Everybody's going to get that. I know not everybody has the option to get the step, but as years go on, I'm not going to have 15 lieutenants just because they've taken a class that makes them eligible for that step. Um those numbers will come down, but um I'll do whatever you tell me. Can you tell us the um Miss Armstrong the total cost per step based on the salary cost not counting the training cost on this budget that we're looking at?

Um just a step as a onetime payment was 124,912 and then longevity 70,778. And then what about cola? Cola was 139,133 merit

111,306. So, if we meet again, I just want to think out loud with the timing, make sure that we can have a public hearing, we meet again a week from today, we'd have to come up with something to have it on June 1st because of the next day. I just count that's what I was counting up from from putting it on that Friday to that to that 31st, which is Sunday. It'll give you that 10 days.

Okay. So, I really need to be able to bring you back something that is could strongly be considered to be approved to go to public hearing next week. So, I really need direction. Okay. From you all of which what you want me to take out.

Well, I'm definitely for employees receiving things. Um, you know, merit and cola have been used. um the merit and cola that our numbers were ran on that we kind of all said run it on it. Not saying we're doing that whereas was between the two was 4.5%. Um that's kind of average of what's being done around it seems. Um but you know we all know parts of the step in longevity from the program. The problem is it was voted on in October by previous council but it wasn't funded and that's why we're here now and I think these are the first numbers being presented to everyone with these and the plan was for that to go to base salary which you know some of these percentages are you know 30% increases to you know with with all the stuff I think with the cola the merit the longevity and the step it's too rich for me to want to approve prove. Um, personally, it's nothing against any employee. Um, and I hate that anything was said to them, but the dollar, you know, not sure some of it with the dollars because we're hearing bits and pieces of it, of course, and we're, you know, but but it wasn't funded. But then my other concern is there are employees in two departments that are getting large what I consider large raids as doubledigit raises. And then there's other departments such as administration, finance, um you know, public works that aren't aren't aren't getting those. It's not equitable across our employees. And you know, kind of why we were looking at dependent benefits was to try to do stuff equitable across all of our employees to have more money to put into color or merit. And I know there was discussions about merit to reward

people. So, you know, this isn't an easy decision for anybody, but I do feel like some of these percentages when you look at them, what's been pulled out? I mean, can we all sit here and say that these type of increases should happen in one physical year? I know me personally, this isn't something I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, it's a lot. And we all ran to watch the t after the taxpayers, watch after the dollars. And um this is hard to swallow and we didn't create this, but this is what we're faced with.

And I know we have people not happy with us for bringing this up, but it it it's

I know me, I'm not up here I'm not here to um win a popularity contest or anything like that, but to me looking at these numbers, this isn't something I would approve in my personal budget or if I was running a company at all. I it just it wouldn't be. And I understand um from you and the other department heads and you as also the dual roles. I understand where you're at and it's a hard position to be in and it's not fun for anybody. I wish like I tell everybody jokingly I wish a billionaire would give us $10 million so we could do everything we want to do and give employee you know but that's not where we are financially. Could a compromise be? Because we do I mean we we don't want the employees to not think that we appreciate them. They were promised this and it was put at our feet. Would a compromise be the employees who have the step that they don't get the cola and the merit and then the ones that do get the the ones that don't qualify for a step they get the the cola and the merit and then we come back with a longevity plan that looks better. Is that a compromise for us? I mean,

from the employee perspective, a cola and a merit, if somebody gets a four and a half% bump, that's going to be a bump that stays with them for the remainder of their career. I'm just trying to find a compromise. I understand. I understand. I just don't know that an employee is going to say, "Yeah, give me a $4,000 check and I'll forego a four and a half% raise. It'll stay with me for the next 20 years."

But they could choose that. Maybe that might be a better compromise. You choose. Do you want the step or do you want the the cola and the merit? Would that be Is that better? Because we we we want to do something. We can't do it all. We know we can't do it all, but we we've got to have some kind of um middle ground. So, have the employee choose. Do you want the cola, the merit, or do you want the step and then come back with a longevity plan that is so much better? Are y'all Well, well,

what are y'all's thoughts on that? I would I would be more for cola and merit across the board to keep it equitable because some of these employees as y'all see in the percentages I mean it's large some are getting $17,000 bumps some I mean it it's a lot and some in just step are getting nine almost $10,000 85 and some are getting nothing that's where it's not fair I mean we have a lot of employees that work hard by looking at this data are are only getting the the 4.5%. So why is that fair? Because all of our employees work hard. So why should one get a 30% bump and others get a 4.5%. I'm just not okay with that because it's not fair. And some of these departments and individuals, employees, no fault of their own, they had no opportunity to get the increases in this step

for whatever reason. You know, the numbers you're reading off. Yes. Are they on from the information you had this morning before we had other discussions? They are. I asked for we got we all got the employee numbers. Yeah. Based on discussions, has any of the information that you have in front of you? Has it changed based on our general discussions here?

Well, no. No, not really. because the um th this new data I ran these figures I showed today were were from the latest information some I just got yesterday at 4:00 um if that helps because our initial you know running was run the cola and the merit type of thing and look at the benefit change possibly um just to see where we fail out at and then these were ran with everything in it so if they had a a bonus I I'll use that term thrown in on paid is it showing up as salary and your the percentage is added on top of that?

Um what it's showing Mike is it's showing it's on this document here that I well it it's what I handed out. It's got the s the existing annual, the cola, the merit, the holiday on call overtime, the step, the reclassification, longevity, and then there's a column that says total wages. But if you look at mine that I condensed it down to, this one that has the percentages, this shows by position their their current income, their new wages, their wage increase in dollars, and their wage increase by percentage. And when you look at this one, this is the one that's telling that employees, some can only get four 4.5% and then others can get up to 30% increases.

So, a person who's got it gets a step. Yes. Is that added to their base salary? Well, how the step program was first set up, you know, and you were on that council, the plan was, and I confirmed this yesterday, um, with Miss Sweeney, was for that step to be part of your base salary. Okay. So, for example, some of these that are $9,800 increases, that would then go onto their base salary, which then compounds everything else.

Well, yeah, that that's what I was trying. The longevity we didn't have clarity on because I just got this sheet like right before this meeting that said the proposal in here was for longevity a one-time payment and step a onetime payment. And I've spent countless hours looking over all these spreadsheets to try to figure out way, you know, and and so this new information with the dollars and the reason to present this, it's that concerning. And moving forward, the town cannot afford to do this without a huge tax increases to our residents and not having funds for services. It's not that we don't want to pay employees more, but we don't have enough money. And that whole thing with revenue, if we had more revenue coming in, yeah, we would have more money to play with. But right now, we don't.

But if the step is not added to the base, right? And neither is but cola and merit is correct. They are correct. Okay. So if it if they had a step amount and I'm looking at some of them here, you know, if it's added to their base, the projections for that particular person would be even more way more that's we definitely couldn't afford that because I think Alicia correct me if you said these are ran off of not compounding that into base for next year it's a one time correct good right these numbers yeah

and with that it's that's where we are with we don't have enough money to do any of the other projects that we want to do any of the other infrastructure so how do you all feel about offering either cola and merit or step and then to redo the longevity where it's more affordable to to the taxpayers. Yeah, I would be for cola and merit at 4.5 combined and I would be for going back to the holiday bonus um because that way everybody can receive equitable amount

this year. this year and then we need to spend some time revamping um cuz we're running out of time due to various factors of this all coming about and and I truly believe in in going to city vision and we spent a lot of time with the town administrator at OIB and they're doing a salary um new salary benchmark surveys and all that. So that should be done in the fall. So, we should have that data because I know some stuff I've ran, some positions are paid generously and some need to be paid a little more within our town. Um, and to me, we need to truly benchmark these positions and make sure that we are paying people and and I know a lot's been done in fire and police just from what y'all told us to do that, but but I don't think across the board for all our employees that's maybe been done enough

as far as opportunities. I guess it's not apples to apples and that's what I struggle with is when this step program was pitched. Um, and I don't want to beat this into the ground. I know we're already after 4:00. Um, oh my gosh, it's almost 5. Anyways, um, it's not apples to apples. Um, I'm not going to take away anything that any other department do does because they're there skills that those departments have that I don't have, but arguably it's not apples to apples. We pitched this as a way for public safety and it morphed into my previous administration it morphed into well if we're going to do it for you we got to do it for everybody. So then it was like well what can we offer you a step for right?

Um I agree that you know everybody needs to uh it needs to be equitable but how do we get it equitable when we're asking you know our police officers and our firefighters and Richard this fire chief wants to say some things too. I want to give him an opportunity. But, um, when we're trying to to recruit and retain people that arguably bring the most amount of risk to this town, um, we don't want to just be scraping the bottom of the barrel, hiring police officers and firefighters that nobody else wants, right?

Uh, constantly just getting new recruits that are coming here to train, learn the job, get their general certification after one year, and then leave, and then we start all over again. So, how do we do that? Um, $3,000 ain't it, right? We have so many other employees though that don't make that low salary that you're talking about. We do have employees who have stayed here. We're very fortunate. Yes. And and we did all this without a step program. um you you see what we're faced with and we know what you're faced with because

you're on the front lines and and I would say that the storm water man, he's on the front lines, too. If you don't have water, you tell what your priority is, right? Sure. Um but I would like for us to have some kind of resolve on this and we've got we've got to give something and you've you all have to give something. Um, I I don't think after the comments, the emails that we've gotten, the the phone calls that we've gotten that we can continue to say that we're going to offer all this year this in this budget. I I I just don't see how we can do that.

And a lot of people don't even know about this. That's one reason we presented it because we're we're getting hammered, I know I am, with questions about the budget and they haven't seen the details because they're not out there for them to see. So, I know they're going to be added, but we need them added so they can give feedback and

you know, we this week what I believe is due to some public records requests, but our taxpayers shouldn't have to do public records requests to get the budget stuff or perceived to. And I I know some was put out on the website in their budget, but you got to dive down and I think people are looking under the agenda part for them. And I know I talked to Miss Armstrong about that, but the um the I think that's part of a lot of people don't know and you know, everybody has a different take. I wish I wish we could pay every employee $100,000, but unfortunately we can't. And um so Chief,

I don't think if I may, uh Chief Claymore and I spent so much time developing this program and and you know it it's my opinion that we created a a great program. Um I personally at the FD, we developed this for retention. Since 2020, we lost 13 firefighters for various reasons. Uh we created this salary step program knowing that the first year was going to be costly. Um and one of the reasons why I jumped up here in this seat is uh it was supposed to take place of the merit. Merit was supposed to go away when we developed this. Cost of living would be at the discretion of council but um for the FD and I'm Chief Claymore's uh personnel as well. Um this is retention. you know, uh, allow our employees to go and get the training after they spent so many years employed by Sunset Beach. Uh, this is the direction we want you to go in and, uh, these are the classes that we want you to get that we the certifications, the development classes that we wanted you to go get and develop yourself. And that's benefits us, Sunset Beach. We ask our employees to do a lot, but we want the most experienced employees at it. So, um, you know, in in in sitting in the back of the room and listening, would would you consider allowing us to to maybe revamp this and come up with a different system that uh we can still benefit from it and um I know we don't have much time, but maybe maybe let us come back to you with something. Um, we we know this better than anybody else. So

you just stated that the step was to replace the merit. That that's what you just said. But merit and step are both in this budget. So you see what our acts are because we sat out and well some of us sat out there in the audience and heard these discussions and it was to replace it. So you can only imagine what it is when we see that that's on here. That's why I thought the compromise could be you all pick one or the other. You can't have I mean you you you I don't want to say you're getting double but you kind of are in a way. So um time is of the essence.

Um you know you come back and you revamp it and it's not to our liking. Then what do we do? Um these are very hard discussions and chief I I I mean I would love to give y'all the opportunity to do that. Time is of the essence though and and we we get reports and I have to look at them very quickly to anal and spend lots of hours. So I do think if we're meeting next Thursday, today's Thursday, you know, when do you think y'all could get us some numbers, Ran? Um to even look at, you know, or do we need several scenarios, Ran? I I think we need to bring something back that we're fairly confident that you're going to

allow to go forward to a public hearing. I think if we bring back several scenarios, um I don't I don't know that that's best. It's going to be I like the idea of reworking it, but I don't know that in the essence of time that it's going to give us what we what you want. Perhaps we could rework it. Bring back the reworked re version and bring back whatever direction you give me walking out of here today. So, we've got two things to look at.

Would it be fair for us to have the expectation that they're either going to get a step or a merit, but they're not going to get both? Is that a reasonable fair um expectation that we can have? I mean, because you you said that step was to replace merit. And if that is in true, that's true. Then one has to go away. Well, step was to replace if step was to replace merit. in the the thought process, I suppose, that it was going to remain a program that would remain with the employee where their one-time payouts, that's why it's shown on this budget the way it is.

And next year, they'll get a merit. I mean, ne, you know, it's not like, right, this is going to lock in their salary, but I think we need to we need to give them a little bit of a direction. And do you all see what I am proposing about that they choose either a merit or a step? Step's a lot higher than the merit is for most employees. The problem again I see is the equity. Some have no option to get the step have not had the opportunity this physical year to get the step for next physical year. But it's also one and done,

right? But it's still something some employees are going to get. Let's say $17,000 or let's say 10 thou $9,000. somebody's going to get $9,000 and another employee can only get $1,500 for their merit. So,

could I say something about that though? Because some of these steps um are for individuals who have gone to school and have gotten another degree and and that is part of our plan already without STEP, correct? For them to go ahead and get that. So, that's why some of those folks are hired and I think we need to honor that. I we know that we value education up here. Um, and and that's something that I think it's three individuals that that may be why you it may not be three, it may be more, but y'all you all know. Um, I wouldn't want to take that away from them. Going back to get that education is a whole lot different ball game. That's a whole lot different time than taking two or three classes. And I don't not trying to diminish the classes but the time commitment um the employee had to pay for those classes. They had to pay for that degree whereas um the training through the step is not that the town paid for that. So the employee did pay on is that correct?

Yeah, we didn't pay for it. Okay. The the employee did pay for that. So I mean that is in a way to get reimbursed. Um you know I think the hardship of that is and and I wholeheartedly support that higher education's wonderful thing. Um but you know last year our employees were given this sheet and saying you know uh a course that we designed that we put out there and hey if you are able to obtain these certifications we're going to give you this when you complete it and that's no longer. So that's a you know it's it's tough for me because I was the one I was the one putting this in their hand saying I'm going to support you in this and that was given to them when

that was really uh July one of when the budget was October I mean we were told it was approved in October but not with dollars. It was officially I think council officially adopted adopted it on that date in October but we knew going into budget you know we we submitted this it was approved in the budget in July and then it was adopted the meeting dates 106 of 2025 but it says the budget in impact under this uh this is the staff report it shows incorporated and approved 2025 2026 budget effective July 1 2025 That's just that's a tough one for me. You know, I was the one. We understand.

We got you. We understand. It's tough. So, we're really looking at 125,000 to pay out and 70,000 longevity. So, we're looking at 290 about about 300,000. No, 200,000. Sorry. 200,000. 200 What does everybody else think? I'm I'm fine with what Katie said.

Choose one or the other, I would say. So, do you want to cut the merit out or do you want to cut What do you want to cut? Cuz here's what I'm looking at. Let me just explain. If we cut this, if we stay with a step and cut merit, well, that's going to benefit them. But how about the administration, public works, they're not getting a merit increase. So that I mean, that's that's the balance we have to look at. What I was proposing is the employee gets to choose. Yeah. The employee that gets the step doesn't get both. Okay. They get one or the other and it's their choice. All right.

So if they want that four and a half potentially added to their base, then they can elect to take that. If they elect to take the one-time payment, then in this budget year, they would not see colar merit. Employees that aren't eligible for step would would get the the four and a half up to four and a half. Now, if they take if they choose merit, do they also get longevity? So, you're saying they don't get color or merit, but they would get that's a discussion we have to have it. So, let's let's just I guess chip off one at a time so that I can take good notes and make sure what I had recommended is that we look at um and I had it in my recommendation. It was in there day one.

Right. Right. Um moving up that that be more affordable to our taxpayers and it's still giving them a bonus. It's still giving them a longevity to be here. Um it's just not as rich as the plan that was presented. And you know that's something that councils choose every year what you want to do. That's not a given. Um so with us when I say us I mean previous councils councils across North Carolina just because they have it one year doesn't mean that it just keeps going on and on and on. Um so that for us to to revamp that that would be appropriate. They're still getting something. It's just it's will be more affordable to our taxpayers for the longevity.

Yes, sir. All right. So, let's let's first go back to step employees who are identified and we're looking at the October Yes, sir. to April. It's October the 6 is the date that I have, Mr. Kramer. I have that written down. And then we have 106 to 47, right? Employees who are identified in obtaining an eligibility for step between 106 and 47 have the option of taking that onetime payment for step in place of 2 and a half% cola and up to a 2% merit. They get to choose one or the other. Is that correct? I see somebody was just merit. Merit and merit and co and

that's step one. And then step two, I should say. Yeah, bear with me. I'm getting notes here. Step. And one other question for Miss Armstrong. Is that something that Black Mountain can handle doing this differently? Going to be a nightmare for y'all? That's what I envision Mike. it it I don't want to speak for her, but the onetime payouts, it doesn't matter if the the whole town gets those or just 50%. And then if the other 50% gets a pay increase, it's just calculations. I may be making that I may be making way too easy from the payroll.

One goes into the query for bonuses, a step would then um the cola and merit actually add to your base salary. So they go in the salary the base screen of that because I've looked at every one of those query. I mean and the second Yeah, that's right. So the problem is Thank you. Yeah, this is why I keep smart people around me. Um if we do a cola, it didn't it moves the pay scale. So employees could not necessarily opt out of the cola because they would be they're in that pay scale. So that would be a nightmare because then you'd have employ nightmare.

Yeah, that's why I keep smart people wrong.

Well, is it is it an option to do cola and merit merit a bit so that people that were supposed to get something get it? And I I also the thing about the higher education I guess I do support that. I know we've approved some individuals that have been presented to us with higher education and I know I know Richard you just had one. I don't know if you have more, you know, but um I do think that we do need to reward um but I mean we're I think we're open for suggestions, but we just got this really we got the spreadsheet Friday at 4:00 and so we we've done a lot of research on this between I mean we've done research before but some of these numbers it was shocking to see because we had you know the step the longevity the cola all that in there we had not seen those numbers. So it was

would it be fair to say maybe do cola right now cola is two two and a half and merit's 2%. Is that correct? Say cola is keep the cola at two two and a half% and then do merit at 4%. And then you all look at who's taken the step whatever their classes are with that time. Figure out what the percentage is supposed to be. Would you do that? Does that make sense? So, somebody who's taking the step, let's use a firefighter, too. Whoever that individual may be, that fire person gets a 2 and 12% cola. They can get up to a 2% fair.

You said 4%. I'm sorry. Four 4%. 6.5 total they could get. and and no, but they they don't get any steps, right? The only offset with that though you all is that's where that that salary keeps compounding and that and that's where we get into. So I I get I understand the compression if you don't give everybody a cost of living across the board. Everybody's, you know, I understand salary compressions, right?

The concern though is is how do we do this that it's fair? And was your suggestion that that only the people who might be eligible for that step be eligible for a 4% merit. All the other employees are only eligible for two. Is that what I understood? Well, to me, that would be up to the department heads to decide how to do that.

Not everybody's taking all their training. There's no way they can take all the training from October to April. So, it wouldn't be the numbers that we looked at like the person that may be getting I'm just throwing out a number $3,000 step. If that individ individual did not do all the training from October to April, then you would have to look at what percentage it is. That's what I meant by percentage. Okay. To figure out what that is. But most in fire and police all are getting a staff right now. They're most Have they all had the training? Have they completed all the training from if you were to look at October to April they have in that window have they had the training?

So so all of them have had routine daily training. Um the ones that are going after the steps and are that's what that have obtained it. Yes.

The ones that would have been eligible for the step. I think one of the things that we that was brought up to me as a as a you know a factor in this was that we had in our step that if somebody was an evidence room technician that they re they were eligible for a 2 and a half% pay bump and we have people currently prior to the step ever been being considered that were evidence room technicians and that's a high liability area. One thing that gets people sued the most is the area that holds the guns, money, and drugs. So having people with special certifications to manage that room, we add it to added to the step to have them compensated for having that additional responsibility. So that training did not come about in October to April because those people were already certified for those things. So that would just be eliminated completely. that person would not receive any sort of additional comp compensation for managing that. I'm sure uh in the fire service they probably have similar things where there's specialty things that they do over and above just being don't take offense to this. The average firefighter like we have the average police officers and then there's people that do extra stuff. Um those would just go away.

Do all of your firemen I'm sorry I said firemen. I don't know if you have men or women. Firefighters. Firefighters. Thank you. Do what I'm looking at all of them are getting a step. Is that correct? No. Okay. So, what we're there's some that aren't. There's a few that are they're all not going to be eligible. So, with our program, you have to to reach number two, firefighter two, or firefighter three. You have to be here for a I'm sorry. Merit that I was seeing. I'm sorry. Looks like you have six that are not by my calculations. I'm looking very fine printed. probably about six.

Well, because in our program you could get step two from one to two or two to three, but you could also earn some educational um incentives as well. I know this is complex, but like I said, we just got the numbers Friday, so this is a lot to process to really look at. You think you're going to be a bring it back Thursday?

I'm not sure what you want us to bring back right now. I'm sorry. I'm just not I'm just not. I thought I did. And so I'm not I I I'm more than happy to bring you something back. I just need to know what. And I think I just need Let's be honest. I I just need direction. Just tell me. Give me a number. Give me a figure and that's what we'll do. You know, for us to to try to come up with different variations and variables. We're going to be right in this rabbit hole again next Thursday. Yeah. Closer. I'm sorry. Can we take longevity? Can we move it?

Let's talk about that first. That's the easiest one. Can Can we revamp that so it's more affordable to our taxpayers with what was presented to you today? Or could we do holiday bonus just whatever you want to call it across the um that seems to be the easier one that we could take off the table right now

because the holiday bonus last year or the year before last was like 24,500 and then the longevity I don't have that exact number what was paid in November you know we just looked at that yesterday I don't remember but anyway but it was I assume it was more than that because some people are getting I mean some people are getting 3,000 one in some in some 3500 in longevity. Um it's a good little bump that is on top of the other. And that was the first time that was ever done was in November, what I was told. Your your recommendation is to go to a Christmas bonus

or the holiday bonus. Well, just cuz it's equitable across the board because if not, some people get really nothing and some get it's all over. It's it's a wide range that people are getting. So, to me, you're valuable if you've been here 2 years or if you've been here 20 years. Obviously, if you're here 20 years, you're most likely making more money. I would hope, you know, I mean, it's a hard this is a hard call. I mean, I'm not going to lie. So, it' be um a set amount for everybody across the board. And that's what's been done every year except for November. November, this longevity check was cut. And I'm just trying to suggest the last the la

Mrs. Armstrong pulled up a a report that shows $24,500 is what was paid last year in holiday pay. Now, that doesn't there's still taxes on top of that. So, the the cost to the taxpayers is still more than $24,500. So, no, I thought that was the Christmas the holiday bonus, but that was done in 24 is what I wasn't done last year. So, 25 November, what was done was a longevity check is what I was told. And the taxes are taken out. So, if it's $10, they get the taxes come out of that that the taxpayer doesn't pay more.

They were both ran as bonuses is what I was told. Um, so they are taxed differently than base salary and neither one of those were supposed to be added onto um here. Here's longevity payroll register totals. Let's see here. It was 70,000 70,54582.

That's gross place plus employer contributions. And that went to 49 employees and that was on 1124 of 25. What did they call that? That was longevity. Longevity. That was a longevity.

Yeah. And that was run as a bonus. So longevity as that was that what was ran last year was that versus the 24,500 Christmas. I I just don't want to bring back something that it's not what you want to see. So, I mean, I'm happy to just to put something back together that cuts out some more money, but is it going to be enough? So, I'm asking for,

you know, some pretty clear direction so that when we do come back, our next step is scheduling a public hearing because my numbers might not be what you have in mind as far as if I rework longevity, if the chief and I or whoever, if the three of us rework this, it might still not be what you want. Yeah. So, I just need to know. Well, that's why due to the sake of time I was saying suggesting do the holiday, but that's been done it sounds like for years except for in November for simplicity. So your your suggestion is to remove the longevity and replace it with a holiday bonus. Yeah, but what's everybody else's take on I mean

how much for a holiday bonus or spend $500 employee? Okay. What do y'all do y'all think of that or not think you know for against whatever? I'm just throwing something out there. Is there a consensus on that? For me, that sure is better than doing away with it. Um, so if we did the holiday holiday pay, the biggest thing is how much do we want to put forth towards it? Well, they got 500 last I'm saying, do we want to stick with 500? You want to make it 750? Well, let's stick with 500 for right now to see um what that would be. Just coincidentally, you work at ABC store. Then you all get a bonus at Christmas time. What is that amount?

Uh I can't remember what I got last year. Honestly, it varies. I think it varies from employee to employee. Is it a set rate or a percentage? Uh I don't I'm not sure. That's okay. I don't know what everybody else gets. He just tells me what I get and that's I don't know what everybody else gets. Okay. But I don't think we all get the same. Okay. Okay. From what I know, what I understand. Okay. Just curious, you know, that's another public entity.

So, let's So, are we Do you all want to go with the merit at 4% and the cola at 2 and a half% and then a holiday pay? Is that what you're just what you're thinking? That's what we're looking at. And then the head department heads would look at who's done what for the step program and to give them that amount. I mean it's going to be about the same amount of money though. You I mean we realize that right?

Might be closer. Yeah, it's going to be but you only have 4%. In a merit and are we going to have everybody getting a 4% raise? It has to be. I mean, if you didn't do any step, you don't get the total. Would that be a fair statement? It's up to% 4%. Right. It's up to 4%. I would say up to four because some people not guaranteed four. That's right. Yeah. Well, because some employees haven't had the opport some were just told what their step was recently for one thing because it was just created. Is that accurate? I mean, that's my understanding.

Yeah. has not been I mean it's not it was adopted in July with the budget and then it was approved in October, right? But some I thought we just came about what for their departments the info not y'all's departments but I don't that's what I was told. Um so if that's case some had you know some have no option but to get the whatever the merit is no there wasn't a step really opportunity did we nail down the cola percentage 2.5 is what's been discussed. Okay. Yeah. I don't think that number I think that's the one sure thing in this budget we haven't changed. Yeah.

If an if an employee did not take any training for a step, does that mean they don't get any merit? No. I think they could get because it would be it'd be based off their annual evaluation. I I just want to make sure that we're not stating that because that's not fair to people. No, it's it's going to be based. It's going to be based off their evaluation. I would agree. So, in in years past and Well, I'm I'm going to wait on this. Let's try to get these figures taken out first and then we'll talk about timing. So two and a half cola is consensus. Yes. Yes. Up to 4% merit. Yes. Yes.

Removing longevity. We're doing holiday pay and replacing it with with the Christmas bonus with the Christmas $500 per employee. 500 per and that's at their fulltime, right? That's what's been done before, I believe. Correct. Yes. And they had to be with the town for a year. A year. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was going to kind of come back to was um merit. Typically, we've done to be eligible for merit, you had to be employed in by October of the previous year. Okay, good with that. Yeah, that's just a practice. It's not a policy, right?

Um Christmas was a year. Okay. Um, step I don't know where we're at. Step are we looking at we're not doing it the it replaces the that's the 4% that's right the the two and a half cola and the 4% merit. So the employee option of anything is gone. Um we're just taking the step out.

Okay. If I may, while we're fresh on salaries, I want to recap this, make sure I'm right. Then I want to go over the road, the storm water, and the dredging fund. And then hopefully we can uh come back with something that is agreeable 2 and a half% cola, which would change the base. So if that's approved, uh, every employee and future employee would see that merit is eligible up to 4% for an employee that is had to have been here since at least October of the previous year. Uh, longevity is being replaced with a $500 Christmas bonus. Employees would have had to been with the town for a minimum of one year to be eligible for that step is being removed. And that's where that additional 4% is coming from. Did I miss anything?

Nope. Good. Roads. $1 million is what we've agreed to put into the road fund, which is an excess an increase rather of $600,000. Thank you, Chief. Storm water, an increase of a half a million, which brings that fund to $730,000. and dredging. We're going to up by $65,000 for a deposit of $200,000 into the dredging fund. Okay, Alicia, are you are you tracking? I think she is. She's a great noteaker.

Can we use the halo fund balance for the roads? Is that okay? Since we have like 330ome,000 left in there, is that fine? Do we need to keep any in your recommendation in there for next year? Well, the annual revenue is like $200,000 and then we get interest off that money every year.

Okay. And I think while we're talking about revenue, we need to talk about where we're going to get all of this from, which is anticipated carryover, which would be fund balance forward. um a deduction or reduction rather of our fund balance from 106 to 95 and then the fund balance forward in the POW bill. And that should enable us to bring a a balanced budget probably with a little bit of extra that you can put wherever you want to put it.

Dredging, storm water, roads. Leave it. Did I miss anything? Yeah, leave it in the account. Leave it in the account. Don't miss Leave it in the fun. Yeah, we don't need to. And at the end of the day, if we appropriate it, we don't spend it. It goes back. But yeah, just leave it in the fund balance. If we need to do a budget amendment, we can do that. Okay. What's this to water amount just said? $730,000. Thank you. All right. Anything else from this? I not next next part be public comments. If anybody like to speak, you're welcome to. Public word out.

We'll be looking to adjourn. But our next meeting will be next Thursday. As I told y'all before, I'm going to be out of town. But if we'll schedule it at 2:00, I'll be back by 2:00 before 2:00. Whatever you're available. Sure. Instead of one. So we move to two. That way I I know I'll be back in town. Unless I have a wreck on the way back, then y'all just carry the hell along. But uh 2 o'clock next week. Two o'clock. Two o'clock next Thursday. And chief, do we need a close session before the thing or not? No. for we won't need a close session for that. I have no reason for it right now. No. All right, we going we're going to get off all these closed sessions. I aly Yeah. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? I'll make that motion to adjurnn. Do I have a second? Second.

All in favor? Any more discussion? No. Too late.