Planning & Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

here. Espinosa here. Graham here. Kudel here. Jackson here. Randall here. And Miles is absent with no. All right. We'll look for a motion to approve tonight's agenda. I'll make a motion to approve tonight's agenda. I'll second. Motion and second to approve tonight's agenda. All in favor? I opposed. Look for a motion to approve the minutes from our regular meeting October 28, 2025. I'll make a motion to approve those minutes. I second that. A motion and a second to approve the minutes from the regular meeting October 28, 2025. All in favor?

I opposed public chairs are empty. No public comments tonight. No hearings, petitions, and applications tonight. Old business. discuss updates on Hartford's subdivision regulations, open space contribution. Teresa,

so um I think everybody's gone through this before or maybe Key, you're new on the board, but basically um Hartford's design standards, we did a review of them in 2004. Part of the design standards talks about open space contribution. we kind of talk about it as our park plan, but really what that is is when a developer comes in and wants to do a development in our um standards basically it states that they either got to um donate to the city 5% of their development for land for a park or bike trail or whatnot that we can utilize or they have to pay $1,000 an acre. Well, according to land prices, we've had the discussion $1,000 an acre, that's way more attractive than donating land to the city. So in essence we feel we're not getting the land donations for parks. Now this is before we had the park plan in place. So you know the first step we thought is that we need to identify well where do we need a park because those or by trail or whatnot those are the places that we want the land. you know, we certainly don't, you know, can take monetary donation if, say, we already have a park and development goes up right next to it, you know, we don't need two parks, you know, back to back. So, there's where we maybe would want a monetary contribution because then that will help us basically establish the other park, you know, be able to have money to buy park equipment, put in paving, all those things that you need to develop a park with. So when we first started taking a look of rewarding that because like I said current regulations let him do either or now and we weren't getting the monetary you know contribution that we felt we need to develop a park. Um ISG kind of gave us some suggestive wordings. Um they kind of looked at market value of land and to bump up that

$1,000 an acre was going to get to be kind of a ridiculous price. you know, a developer, it would have been too much for a developer to to say. So what I put in your packet and what we talked about which is what is in your packet is let's develop the park pond first with partboard see where we need parks and then our talks preliminary talks were basically just like I said if we identified that this is an area that we need land they once again got to do the 5% just like we stated it needs to be shown on the preliminary plan so we know right away cuz now some of the developers are kind of want to with hindsight, well, we're going to identify it right away and lock into it that this is what we need. And if we don't need land and we need a monetary contribution, we talked about that dollar amount will basically come up with the same monetary contribution as what the land is worth. So, we would do a fair market either appraisal or we look at recent sales, some way to get up a like for life, you know, what a fair market value of that land is. And then if it they do need to donate money, they they would pay that. They would have one year from when the preliminary plan is approved to, you know, go forward with that. So this is kind of refresher of what we previously talked about. Nothing's been adopted. So obviously I have just in the packet not to adopt this, but more discussion, you know, kind of refresher on our part, have some more discussion of is this still the path we want to go down? Do we want to look at doing something else? and you know how do you want to proceed from here? So I don't expect like I said any motions or adoptions at this point but since we're just it's been over a year since we've looked at it to you know the only verbiage that's been changed since what we looked at um previously is shown there in red before we talked about a

park plan you know to be determined. Well, here is like now I've got it according to our park plan because we do have a park plan that we put in place and and that is what we can utilize to reference. So from there I guess like I said it's discussion on the board and you know do we think we still want to go down this path or what are your thoughts? So, it kind of lay out or the parks board has identified some areas.

They had they had Yes. Um an exhibit in there that kind of kind of had a circle area that here's where we think we need a huge park. I know some was up in the the northwest corner. Um some was identified probably where Jan is going to go. We know they're going to um it was identified in our growth area where possible parks would be. Yeah. So nothing specific, but looking at Jans's, you know, as a project, 149 acres, that's just short of 7 and a half acres at the 5%. You know, what is the the target size for the park? That's a lot of land. Yes. And so

we've had we've looked over concept plans and we have indicated to Jans, we don't we need a park in that area. We, you know, we don't have anything on that east side. Um, Athens is going to donate land for a bike trail, you know, probably not a large, maybe a pocket park, nothing large. So, you know, we would want more of a substantial park there. That many acres probably we don't need. So we said you know we have told him that we are looking at changing our verbiage but if he wants to identify something now we can maybe look at partial land and partial monetary you know going down that road with them because

like I said do we need a 7 acre park? Probably not. Um so maybe we can do part of it as some monetary contribution to help us get that park established. Yeah. So that's that's been our chance since we haven't changed anything yet. Yeah, I know with city engineering or parks for do they have like a a target size? I mean, is that they're just relying on park plan and and it's going to be for every area and and is it going to be a large development like Dan or is it going to be a you know smaller development? That's going to determine how big a park you can probably absolutely. Yeah, that makes complete sense.

Yeah. And maybe, you know, you brought up a good point because like I said, we've had that discussion with Jans about part and park, maybe we want to add some verbiage to that too that maybe, you know, you know, if the city determines maybe it's something we can we can do something like that part versus all land or versus all money, you know, because it would be nice to have with with that many homes to have a park in that development, but that would be nice to have and and they want it too. They agree. They that's appealing for their development. So they they said, "Yep." No, we're good with land. Just how much land? Yeah, I think it's probably good to put some verbiage in there. I think

you may run into a point where they're like, well, I only want to donate you 1% of my land and then I'll donate the rest. So, I think you might have to put some sort of number in there, too. What's your target? Is it the pro the problem when you start putting too much verbiage into one of these is you introduce confusion. Sure. And loopholes. I will agree to that. Okay. You try to if you put anything in there that if you have anything in it that allows a discussion about amount of land as compared to dollars.

Sure. Then we run into you run in the same situation we have with Asam who his development has been in place and building for five six years now seven years and we're still battling and we still haven't had him agree to tell us what he's going to give what swamp ground he's going to give us which one has asked him for Turtle Creek y um you know I like I like in this that we have if they're donating land the land is platted and transferred to the city within one your upfront, right? Preliminary plan. Um, that's all good. I think and usable and usable. Yes. Um, we did have

Do we have any because currently we do have verbage that it has to be. Is there an equation based on is there an equation for parks? What size parks you need based on housing? No. No, we have just identified didn't really I think if you look at the park plan and I can't remember I know you sent you put stuff in our thing but I know that there were spots that were a smaller area there was a bigger area out by us think south on western you know even on the internet it all really depends on the size of the development because you know Jams is larger development probably want a larger park than that because it's going to service more people and

well that's what I wonder if there was a way of people ac if if we leave it if we leave it like it is and that is the city says we want to have a park in this area so you're going to donate you're going to give us ground rather than paying as a city you know I say yeah we we want to have a park in this area but okay Jans you should have seven acres is what you should be giving us but we don't need seven acres we should allow

we only need two acres so you give us two acres and you pay the fair market value for the other five acres. That's a discussion that's had. If we try to put it into this, we're trying to we're trying to make one statement work for every development. So, you're saying negotiate negotiate after that fact and a developer is going to because we're we're taking undeveloped fair market value of undeveloped ground, right? And he So if he bought that ground for $12,000 an acre as bare farm ground. Yep.

He's going to pay the $12,000 per acre is what it's going to cost him. He's not going to he's not going to say, "No, I don't want to pay you guys. I want to give you all seven acres because now we have seven acres as a city that now it got developed and we're selling lots for 70 grand a piece." He's going to want to sell the lots for 70 grand a piece, right? Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's just like, you know, like with Jans and all the other developers, you know, they come in the front side to us and like you said, that's something when we're looking at their concept plan, we look at and yeah, have that conversation then. I believe because you know I think as as a park board I mean you go this we have we have a bike trail going out there

you know maybe maybe as a developer he says hey I want to give you it fits in core of the developer says it fits into my plan here and what we want to have for houses and everything else to have walking paths in our neighborhood. So how about if I you know I toss in another acre or two for walking paths. My mom lives get you down to the bike path. My mom lives on south of um Roosevelt in that was a running neighborhood I think down in the 80s probably

and they have an HOA. The HOA has bike paths out back. So, and I think they I think they made a deal with the city to not have to put front sidewalks, boulevard sidewalks. instead they have bike path walking path bike path in the back that their HOA does. So I mean there's all those different things should come into it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I I think

get a regulation put in place and then on the front side you know when developments come in have staff in the city have the conversations of yeah do we need it all the land? You know we have identified we do need land. Do we need the full 5%? Maybe not. maybe like you said portion could huh if you look at 50 acres if if you're 5% of that's two and a half and you have another 100 acres that you take in cash right and you can work that formula backwards and just identify how many acres you want and then take the remainder in cash exactly well I was just going to say using Tony's math

$12,000 an I don't know whatever Jans was but if they give us two acres and then you do five acres that's grand in park equipment, right? Sure. I say that that could be that could be there's grading, there's park equipment, there's parking. I mean, there funds needed for a park. So, yeah, I like that. You just don't have to tell them that up front. No, no, exactly. That this is our standard, but okay. When you come to the table, okay, maybe we can negotiate and say, yeah, you know, do we need five acres? No. How about we do three acres? And yeah, then you do the balance in, you know, fair market or whatever. As I as I read through this right now, I'm I'm very pleased with the way it Yeah.

Yeah. I think we were kind of really on the track. It lays it lays out a guideline. It gets us into this century of collecting money. It gets us into this century of saying you can't dink around for the next 10 years before you decide what you're going to do in your development. Right? It's a got to identify it in your preliminary plan. There's a date for paying it by. There's donating by. So it's I like this too because it's a lot clearer for if you're staff wise too of Okay. If you're paying money, it gets paid one year from preliminary plan date. We're not waiting when you sell the lot, we get another check,

right? Because current regulations basically is very basic. You give us 5% land or $1,000 acres doesn't have any timeline, time frame, any of that pinpointed. So I do like this much better from a staff point because it's easier for us to Yeah. This is what needs to be done.

So, if this looks good and we're all in favor of it, why is it discussion only? Why don't we put, you know, it's been quite a while, but if you want to make a motion, we can. It is on the agenda, but I thought we'd just have discussion, but if everybody It looks good to me. I like it when I read it the first time. I think so, too. What do you think? Yeah, however you're comfortable. I just can we can we because this goes into the subdivision regulations. So yeah. So if you want to make a motion to adopt it um then we actually have to put it into the ordinance form,

right? We still have to have a hear we still have to have hearing a hearing. Yeah. So we still got to go through that whole process. So you certainly can have a recommendation to move forward and then that would be my recommendation. By cons by consensus we can say let's move let's move forward in the process. Yeah. Yep. You definitely can. Need a motion to do that. We can just census the discussion only. We can by consensus say bring it to us official please. Yep. Because then I'll have to do the Yeah. publicize the public hearing. So it'll come to you you know and that type. So all right that's a consensus. Perfect. Right.

But for instance, jams just because it's easy math 150 acres and that's probably 25,000 an acreus. 05 that's 187,000 500 at the 5% looking at 25,000 an acre. We were at $1,000 an acre, which would be 150. So, it's a little bit more than what we had, but it's not significant. I don't ISG came back with, but they wanted like 5,000 an acre or something. Yeah, they had a silly number.

Yeah, they had a really high number, which it, like I said, I think that would have kind of deterred developers. Mathwise, that seems it's a little bit more than the thousand acre, but it's not a crazy number. Well, it's going to slide. The smaller the development, the more the more it's going to be. At $25,000 is $250 an acre. I think it's a win-win. It, like I said, it's $1,000 an acre is kind of ridiculously low, but it's like said, it's not out of line for, you know, um, developers to come here. It's it gives us depends on price point. Typically you're going to buy something and then start developing. So you have that basis of your purchase price.

Yeah. To work with unless quite exactly it's been egg in the family forever. Yeah. It's not like we are charging for developed land. Yeah. Yep. Keeps it still reasonable for them.

Okay. Perfect. All right. Let's move into new business. review approved final tie plan for tax increment finance district number three. So we created the district and when we created it they submitted their tiff plan for our reference but we didn't actually approve the tiff plan. So we just created the district and now we need to actually approve the tip plan. They have made no changes to it since it's came through when they created the district. So um but it does require the planning and zoning board to approve the plan. Council still needs to approve the plan and the council needs to approve a development agreement. So this is another step in the process. So

So the tip agreement, no wording changes to the tip agreement except for the dollar amount and the fact that they're building the street. Yeah. From the first one. Yeah. But when we did the creation second time around, they had that dollar amount added in there for the street. Yep. And they added the street into it. So So we created the district, but we didn't have their TIFF agreement. We only created We're approving their agreement now. And in their agreement, the wording is the same except for the amount of the TIFF and the fact that they're building Second Street.

Exactly. Yep. From their original. Yep. They added second street and they up the dollar amount for that second street. Yep. So, we've already applied to the Department of Revenue. Excuse me. We've already applied to the Department of Revenue to get their

Yep. Um, a week ago, I got that determination back that they have given preliminary classification as economic development districts, which is what they wanted. So, because there'll be some commercial property in here. So, this really doesn't have anything to do with with approving the TIFF agreement, but there's a statement in here that just has me scratching my head. As part of the TIFF, this is talking about Second Street. As part of the TIFF, these improvements can be made at a lower cost. So, I put that in there. So, you know, when the city does a street, we have to um build it out or we have to bid it out and then we have to take whatever load bid is. Now, Zacharias, who's part of Windsor Group, says he can build that street cheaper than what we could get back on a bid. Now, I'm just taking his word for it. He's in that business. We don't have to have it engineered, so we're saving engineering fees, which is a huge thing on there. I mean obviously our engineer acting as city engineer will watch the developer whatot but we don't we don't have to design plans we don't have to have it engineered we don't have to bid it out so all those costs is what I was looking at cuz that's all on the developer now because it's part of their development

I'm follow I'm following what you're saying as a taxpayer why are we as a city building any streets Sometimes you most of our streets and I will come most of our streets are built by developers just like Maple Pass and we take them over. I understand that. Um but there are streets that are already designated city streets that we're building. We're doing like upgrading the gravel ones. We should just let somebody ELSE BUILD THE STREET because obviously obviously we're spending way too much money building a street cuz somebody else can build a street cheaper. Well, I know.

We just have to win. We just have to put a win for the city. We should give all those the streets to Zacharias. One wonderful statement by Jeff who bids to build streets who says, "Well, I can build a street cheaper if I just do it myself." Well, cuz he doesn't need an engineer. He can do it himself. doesn't need a big engineer. Well, what do you mean he doesn't? I mean, he needs an engineer because he's got to do it to our standards, but city's not paying that. It's a different level of engineering, right? Do it in house, right? Yeah. Right. And it's you don't have the on-site supervision. You don't have I mean, and depending on your contractor, I'd be concerned about that with the situation, I wouldn't be. Right.

Right. Exactly. Because low bids, we got to take whatever the low bid contractor is. We I almost 20 years. Sometimes that's really good. Sometimes that is not really good. Just like me, Tony. I can design a house just like an architect can. You just don't got to pay me like an architect. We can't we can't uh reject bids and say forget it. We can reject all bids, but we like can't un unless there's something significantly wrong with their bid. Say they made a mistake in their bid or whatnot. We have to by law take low bid. your engineers can say that this this contractor um has a bad reputation or has problems. They've been debarred if we find problems.

We can throw they can throw a bid out because of issues with that contract. But we have to be able to legally defend that because other Yeah. I say you it's it's hard because otherwise you're looking at a lawsuit. I know at SDSU they do a lot of design and build and then just give it to SDSU. They built buildings up there and then it's all designed and build and then STC bought them for a dollar and they're done. It was all done. Give them to give them to the university. They got lots lot less bids because they didn't have that state contracts because it was all private though. It was all done privately. Yeah. Right. Right. That's Well, anyway, that that didn't mean

that's what I was referring to though. I mean, we don't have to go through all those processes and designing and that's probably a statement that going in the future I'd not put in a document that's going out there. I might have to let them Okay. It's already on the camera. Huh? It's already on the camera. It's Yeah, it's forever recorded. It's forever recorded, but it's also in the packet for this meeting, too. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm happy. I'm happy on this. Number one is there was talk that they were going to try to lengthen out the chip to 25. Yeah. And I'm glad to see it stay at 20.

Yep. Y um I mean their chart goes out to 25, but they said they're going to stay to the 20. It it'll be fully repaid, you know, projected and according to their chart, it should be fully paid off even before then if go like they want. The challenge is the discretionary formula and it takes you two years to get something built and you start a tax base and then it takes you five years to build up to a full tax base. So yeah. So, so that is why because which we kind of have that in our development agreement this plan. We mean to put the verbiage in there about the discretionary. Yeah. No, no one gets discretionary formula on this one.

Not the original developer and not subsequent ones really in this. Yes. Yep. In this Yep. If you you read in No. Not the original, not who you sell it to in this development. Just just so we don't have to wait that five years. Yeah. Okay. So the every time they sell a lot, then we get a portion of that payment for that group. Well, it doesn't go by lot sales. It goes by the taxing permit. Well, I know that the taxes we get from the county. But I thought when the land transfer names and it was kind of like Well, if the tax base goes up, if they do get the increment,

we get there's if there's 40 acres, I don't know what acreage is in it, but there's 40 acres. the taxes off that 40 acres as soon as it's because it was a hayfield. Now it's developed with streets and sewer. So the county is already bouncing to bump up

the tax base on that 40 acres. So they're going to pay whatever that difference if they paid $1,000 in taxes before and now the county says you're paying $2,000. $1,000 of that goes in off the whole 40 acres. Doesn't matter if they sell a single lot. If somebody builds, they sell it. Now, somebody builds on that lot. Now, that building, the property taxes go up another $1,000. Now, there's $2,000 from that parcel that's going in there. Every time an improvement happens, more taxes go into payment zero.

Regardless, everybody writes checks to the county. You pay your taxes normally. The county goes through it. The check comes back to the city. City endorses it and then it goes to the bank to deposit, right? To make the to pay the maintenance. So it comes full circle. Everything gets it. It's not that you short pay anything. Everything gets paid to the county and the county calculates that. So you would buy a lot. You have a house and some you don't have a sidewalk out front. So you get a judgment against you to get the no sidewalk built. And the day you sell that house, the money is collected and goes to the city through the sidewalk. It all goes just with excess value.

No. And like Tim and I were talking earlier too, Stacy is the developer. This three and a half 3.25 million of TIF alone is a loan. Mhm. The developers signing signs for the loan. He's on the hook for the loan. Right. So, in year one, if there's only if the loan payment is $100,000, but there's only $3,000 that comes back from the county on the difference in taxes, the developer cuts the check for the difference. He can't they don't defer the payment until there's enough taxes there. The payment that loan payment gets made every year. Correct, Mark? Sure does.

Yep. Doesn't it? Y whether you have funds or not, right? So I mean, so the developer definitely wants to do the improvements and get it developed because that's what's mailed to make their loan payment. So they're not going to drag their feed undevelopment. Okay. I was just misunderstanding. I thought there was like a anytime it changed hand then the balance t that property had based on tax increment the change level to wherever it goes. Yep.

We need a recommendation. We need a We need a motion to This is a motion to approve. Say to approve to send us to council, right? Approve to Yeah. Recommend approval. Yeah. Recommend approval to This comes back then with a developer agreement and everything. This will then go to council with a developer agreement. Okay. Yeah. So, we don't see the developer agreement will go for you for approval. I think we showed it to you with Maple Pass, but that's what I was wondering. T about that earlier, but developer agreements establish city attorney developer city and then

my little pie chart from the attorney just so I had to clear my mind is get the planning zoning commission. You you have the two things you do are um approve the district or recommend approval of the district and the plan and then the governing board creates the district approves the plan and approves the developers agreement. Right. Because that's a the developers agreement is a contract between the city with the city. Yeah. So the city council has to approve that contract. Yeah. Yeah. Because that that's our Yeah. It's a contract signed contract. Well, you know, between the developer and the city. So

is is there a de do you know is there a developer agreement signed yet? No, no, no. So um actually they just put together one. I got it. Well, it's only Tuesday. I got it Monday. Um just from the developer. So right now it's being reviewed by the city attorney and you know and staff. And um I don't know if he'll have it ready to go to the city council by Tuesday or not or if some changes need to be made. And it I'm thinking it probably won't go till their first meeting in January just cuz there's always a few changes and tweaks to it. And once it's going to the council, that developer agreement will be in the council packet. Yep.

So if any of us have a concern or want to read through it, we can read through it and we can reach out to our council members to say we have an issue from as a member of planning and zoning. I've got an issue with something in the master group. I can email it to you too. I mean it's a return to the city. It's a public record. So I mean I can email it to you guys directly and say if you do have any input be understand. Yeah, that's my wish. For now, do we need a recommendation? Need a motion to recommend approval. I will make a motion to recommend approval of tiff number three to send it to the city council. I'll second.

Have a motion and a second to recommend approval for final plan for tax increment finance district number three. Any further discussion? We will vote. Espinosa, yes. Kudel, yes. Jackson, yes. Grant, yes. Anderson, yes. Randall, yes. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to say yes or I or give whatever. That's why I was slow. Yay. That's why you're slow.

I I got to miss you. All right. Mr. Clark is not available to send me, so he has no report. Mr. Christensen, anything in addition to your report? He does have a report. It's in here. Well, he has a report. Personal report, right? He's not in person. Kyle, do you have anything to add in? It's a long one, too. I not Everything's in my report. Have any questions on it? Let me know. Anybody have any questions for Kyle on his It's so tiny. Who can read it?

I know. I said they print it on the landscape version. I wanted to print it the other day cuz I actually make you copies. I swear you said it my email and I I have to like zoom into it because I can't even see it. You need to change your make it. So, if you could just turn it landscape that Yeah, that's what I said. You just got to print it on the landscape cuz I can't even see.

I have a complaint about snow removal on the corners. So, and I'm I'm the unlucky person that lives on a corner lot because the sidewalk is on the corner, but the stupid big tractors drive around, leave a big pile as big as it. It's bigger than my driveway on the corner and trying to clean all of the openings. I'm I'm not cleaning it all out of there. I'm making a path for the sidewalk on either way. But Amen. I wish they had snowgates in this town. Snow pew wouldn't help you on the corner. I know. I know cuz that's where they would push it. But

I thought last year we said the city was going to open those up cuz the same thing happens to my son and I brought it up. I said the city was going to do that. I thought if the city covered up the corners, they were going to open them up. But I responsible for the sidewalk. They never done. Yeah, cuz I we actually have an ordinance that the joint property the city is pushing all that snow on your sidewalk. They come out of the sky. They go around town with the skid steer and they open up corners. We do the corners. Yeah. But we don't do the sidewalk. That's what we're talking about. The corner of the sidewalk. The the sidewalk where the sidewalk comes out to the street. Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, I

Where the handicap where the handicap cutout is. The cutout where the ramp is. Oh, okay. I thought you're talking. That's the city. The city will do that. Okay. Well, then I'm not going to do it again. Well, that's what I was told last year. They could when we have time. Yeah. Well, you got 24 hours. They can walk around into my driveway and go back across the street. 48 hours. There's a lot more other stuff to do, too, with the small staff. So, our culdeac, when the city piles snow so high that it covers up the sidewalk behind the pile, do we still need to try to blow through it or can we leave that a council and ask about hiring more public works people than everybody. No, you know, help us out. I just going to make a statement.

We'd get a lot more done if they didn't do the same sidewalk three times. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. If we if they if they would run the machine correctly the first time, they wouldn't have to come back two more times on the same sidewalk to clean the sidewalk. You're talking about like park area maybe. No, I'm talking all the way down. I'm talking from Patrick all the way to Western and Western all the way to Diamond Trail. Are you talking the big sidewalks? The the the bike trail sidewalk on the west on east side. I I saw the skid steer go down that three different occasions with the snow. Good to know. More than once. I'll have a talk with our public work superintendent and it's easier just to do the same stuff over over.

Uhhuh. and the sidewalk. And the sidewalk on the west side, which I understand is not a bike path. So that is the property owners. Yeah, that's a fight. Um, we we we as a city probably need to take care of at least part of that sidewalk since the sidewalk butts to the curb, right? And we're plowing two lanes of traffic up onto the entire sidewalk. Yeah. And we haven't even discussed removal of the new every everywhere there's a turning lane. Almost everywhere there's a turning lane there, the sidewalk is up against the curb. That's right. It is.

Yep. My neighbor's guy is right up against the curb, too. And I am The only the only one The only one that I know of that's not is at the funeral home at Mickelson Road. Okay. Yep. Yeah, I'll have to have a discussion with Craig on how we're going to handle the avenue the new we end that discussion. So, obviously I don't know what he's told the guys to do. So, let also have one more question with the kids in my neighborhood. Are they going to put the big yellow sign that they can push the button and get the yellow lights to flash? Is that going back up out there?

Yes. Yes. Yes. It didn't go back up after they finished that piece and I just it so it's Yeah, they have to put it back and I did see it on the punch list so I Where do our street lights go in? Our street lights on Western Avenue. Are you talking traffic lights? No, street lights. Street lights out there light to light the street. Oh, yes. Oh, Sue Valley. They're putting in new lights. So, yes. I do not have an ETA on that. Um, at this point I thought I thought you were TALKING LIKE A TREE. I WOULD love that 38.

No, they're putting up new street lights along there and yeah, that's a Sue Valley project and I don't have an ET on that. So, so they have a trailer parked on the grass. Did you get that? Did they get that removed before the snow came? Which one's uh Maine 512 South Maine. I believe so. I marked yes. Oh, closed. Yes. Okay. So, where is parcel 98714? Uh, that is the left co just across from the fire station. West side of Western. Um,

yeah, I know what you're talking about. Okay. Where did they put a new driveway in on the north side? Just where all the cones are there now? Do you know where they used to have the old corral or whatever they tore down? So, there's two driveways kind of in there. It's just right north of the the northern driveway. And if you look on GIS, that is the only way to access the back part of their property there. They put it in without uh coming to the city first. So, there would have been some discussion on the front end of where that should go. We've we've since had discussions with them.

I see. Cuz I didn't realize there was a new driveway. There's always been three driveways into that property. Two. They put a third one. Okay. Okay. The third one goes between where the north one was and trans line. That's the new driveway where all the cones are there. Is that where you're talking about? Yeah, cuz there's like eight There's like eight or orange cones cuz they put in new gravel in that driveway. Yeah, that's the Yeah, that's the new one. Yep.

I was just curious who Anything else for Mr. Christensen? I was just curious about this home over here that we had condemned and then we uncondemned it. Is there any progress going on? Is does he make any headway? Last time I spoke with the owner, he was working on electrical. I want to say Paul talked to him as well. So I don't know where Paul's at. I talked to him probably a month ago. So he's still working on it and we're seeing progress.

Yep. I believe so. Nobody's living in there. So that's the big thing.

Don't we didn't we agree to that with some type of updated progress reports? Yeah, by the end of December, I think that's to get it unconddemned. Like it just had to be safe, right? The unconddemned side. But I thought that we had something else in there that we wanted. updates. I don't think so because then it's out of our hands. Did he fulfilled all of his obligations? I think yeah, I I can double check through the minutes. I don't remember. But the big thing was he fulfilled his How long is his building permit until a year? And so he went last January.

I don't I don't remember seeing because I haven't paid attention. Um Paul gives us updates on all these building permits that are out there. When's the last update of Paul being checking on his building permit? Yeah, I have to check with him so we can check on that and get back to you cuz Yeah. Yeah. Cuz basically, you know, once we took the condemnation off, condition was he'd have to come in, secure the building permits, you know, what to bring to work. And he did come in then and get his building permit. So now he has an open building permit that periodically Paul's been checking on. So we'll have we'll have to check with him and get back to you on that.

I've I've not looked or paid any attention, but we gave a couple of variances on garages to go in on South Main and South Oaks down here. At least one of those required demolition of an existing structure. That's what's the the one on Oaks they demoed right away because that's where the new addition the main one that they've been working on it. I'd have to look see if there's anything left there anymore. It it was last I looked it was like 34s down but do you do you know if it's all the way down yet or not? It's been a while. I have to go by the alley. Yeah. When I go by there kind of go home by kind of check

I know you've been working on it and it it got down there pretty well but I don't know if it's completely removed yet. And from your last month's report, the cattails in the ditch at the post office, did you get any response from your letter that was sent? Um, they made progress, but I don't think they got them completely removed by the time we They did. They made what? They made progress. It looked like they knocked down maybe half of them. But they did absolutely nothing to them. That's just the cattails falling down from the fall. Seasonal seasonal decline of cattails. They look knocked down to me, so I wasn't sure. Snowball globally.

Where was I the other day? Where in Hartford somewhere did someone put big rocks in a ditch to keep the weeds down, but somewhere in Hartford here? Right along the church. The church. Rip. Well, we're putting a lot of roof raft on our project. Yeah. What church? By the Catholic church. Is that where it is? Oh, yeah. Yeah. on on Western the new stuff. Yeah, that looks awesome. That's rip wrap. That's erosion control. But it's big. Yeah, it's big. Yeah, that was part of the city's plan. Wouldn't that work really good for what you're That makes you just need dirt in there. I think they need to have a dirt truck come by and spill it that

your statement there. So that's the other side of that whole ditch when we had this whole discussion up there about that. Has there been any communication discussion with the state about what we can do to actually make that ditch drain? I've asked Craig about that. He says he has talked to him a few times about that. He's giving no progress on it. So, we'll have to next spring again. See, that's surprising that the state would give you any motion. Good answer. You're surprised. I'm surprised. No. Yeah. The um the house on Maine, Kyle, I don't see it on his list. crew over here. Yeah.

Because you would think he'd be giving us reports, right? Make those notes. All right. Anything else for Mr. Christensen? Tracy, anything you have to add to your report? Mr. Mill to add is want to point out. So, um, we did get the W one position filled on the council. That's Keith Carlson. So he

I'm not in trouble official first meeting. So I'm not in trouble. You're good now. You for a little while. So So we now have a full council again. So that's great. Um and then put it in my report. But just to let you know, me and Kyle are going to meet that we're going to have an ISO audit. So basically that is they do it every 3 to four years. um company comes in, they sit down with us, review our practices on, you know, our building permit procedure, our review procedure, our inspection procedure, what we require, what we don't require. They are looking at, you know, they want communities to build as safest buildings as you can. So, they look at all our procedures, what um standards we have in place, they kind of review all that. Um after they look at all that basically they come back to the city with an ISO rating. Basically this rating is used by insurance companies as far as setting the rates for. So the better rating the city of Harford has the better insurance rate our citizens get. That's kind of the whole gist of it. Um it goes around. So we are starting that process now again. So we are just meeting tomorrow morning's our first meeting with them. We're going to start reviewing all our documents and going from there. Um, and the other thing to point out is just our holiday party for the city is not in December because we couldn't get our venue we're going to have at the golf course, but January 16th. So, you'll be getting a formal invite shortly, but mark your calendars. So,

that's the weekend before that's the Friday before a three-day weekend. Yeah, because it is the 19th, the president's day. Martin Luther King that weekend tomorrow. Didn't know if that was going to make it more difficult for me to I don't think that came into play when the mayor was setting it. So remind me again, Teresa, what is this transportation alternative grant? Yeah, I'll be your date there. Got it. So that is we got a grant from the state, a transportation alternative grant is what it's called. But basically that's the grant that's going to allow us to put in a bike trail on the south side of Nicholson from Patrick. board stops now all the way out to Turtle Creek Tree Drive. So,

we did get that grant. We were hoping to get it in this year. They kind of drug their feet on it and we still haven't even gott approval of it yet, but we're hoping to get it designed this winter now and get it in next spring. So, we got approved for a grant. Okay. So, we know we got the grant. Mhm. So, what we're waiting for them to say, "Okay, you can start figuring out how you're going to spend your money." We're waiting for them. So now they're working with ISG to set up the engineering contracts or whatnot and to approve all of that. And we have So yeah, we wonder why build a road chief. We have Zachariah pay the engineering fees.

All the paperwork is taking months to Zachcharias do bike paths too. Yes. Yes fees. Truck. Exactly. Sorry. You know, this might be my last meeting. I'll make a motion to adjourn. Because it's your last meeting. It might be my last meeting. Depends if we have necessarily. It depends if we have anything to go over on the 30th, but last year we canceled the last meeting in December. We have a motion and a second to adjurnn. All in favor? Iay. Captain, actually, you're like city council people. If they don't find anybody to take your place, you have to just keep saying stay. It's not happening. I'm busy on. Oh, maybe you're going to help me.