Town Board - workshop

Some artwork.

Oh, my goodness.

I gave everyone a text. I was still in the town to guide you. Jose Garcia. Look at you. Oh, there he is.

It took me a long time. i said did you go to erie that was the closest we're live so oh just right now sorry well can i start it when come have a seat with us and we can once you got a quorum that's when you get started with our uh efpr oh yes got it everybody loves an audit that's right

Okay. Great. Thank you. I'm Doug Zimmerman, partner with the FPR group. And as I mentioned, I'm here to review the results of the audit of the town for the year ended December 31st of 2025. We prepared a presentation that I'll go through, basically takes the highlights. I would certainly be happy to answer any questions anyone has as we go through it. So we prepare actually three different reports that we provide the town. They're currently in draft form. There's a document that is required communication called a report to the board. And I'll just preface that by saying there's nothing in there that the board would need to be concerned about. It's all the standard language that we are allowed slash have to say that everything went just fine with regards to the audit. We also do an agreed upon procedures report with regards to the justice court and the town clerk department. And again, that was a clean bill of health there. And then obviously the main document is the actual audited financial statements of the town. It's some 63 pages long. And so again, I've kind of summarized it into the presentation here and just kind of walk through that. The first page is just the engagement team. Myself is the partner, Jeff, who oversaw the test work. He's the director on the engagement. And then we had a senior accountant, Eric. We had certainly outstanding cooperation from Corinne and everybody. Everything that we had asked for was freely made available. We're gonna be issuing what's called an unmodified or a clean opinion. There were no exceptions noted in the appropriation of the underlying accounting records that deviate from general accepted accounting principles. So certainly as the board, that's what you wanna hear, that it's a clean bill of health. The last bullet there on that audit results section is that we also do the audit in accordance with what's called government auditing standards. So we look at not only the overall financial reporting system, but very specific guidance with regards to the town's internal controls and compliance matters. And that report is in the back of the financial statements on pages 62 and 63. That is also clean billed out. So again, Nothing that we noted in the preparation of the in-landing records of how the transactions for the year were recorded caused us any type of issues or concerns. There were no issues with regards to the internal controls the town has in place. The next page starts a review of the actual financial results. And you can see here it says financial results, government wide. There are actually two sets of financial statements within the financials here. There is what's called the government wide statements. And those are gonna have all of your long-term assets, the capital assets, the roads and bridges and everything. It's going to have all your long-term liabilities, your bonding, your OPEB, which is your other post-employment benefits, which is the retiree health insurance. It's going to have the pension in there. And then the other set of financials that I'll also walk through is what's called the fund financial statements. And Most times people think of the general fund, and that's what taxpayers will think of. When they think of the town's financials, they think of the budget that's approved. That's really your general fund budget. And so I'll walk through that as well. But I just kind of wanted to lay out how these are all put together. So on the government-wide financials, you're going to find that the numbers are bigger, the changes from one year to the next are bigger, and a lot of this is going to have to do with OPEB and the pension information. So total assets had increased by $7.6 million to a balance of $93.4 million. It was $85.8 at the end of last year, and that's mainly due to increases in cash and equivalents, and there were a number of capital asset additions. Outflow of resources increased by 1.7 million to a balance of 6.5. That was 4.8 at the end of last year. And that was, again, that increases due to changes in the actual assumptions related to the post-employment benefits or OPEP. So the town hires an actuary that goes through, you give them a census of all the employees. what their ages are so they can calculate life expectancies and then they factor in health care trends and they do a calculation of what you will need to fund for their continuing health insurance upon retirement. So that's what OPEB is and it's a very large liability for not only your town but every municipality in the state. On the liability side, those had increased by $11.5 million to a balance of $63.8. It was $52.3 last year, and that was due to an increase in the amount of bond anticipation notes outstanding. So those had increased from just over $28 million at the end of 2024 to a little over $36 million at the end of 2025.

Do we ask questions as we move along?

Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. Feel free.

When is this number, the $63 million, a red flag? What number? Because that seems awful high for economists.

Yeah, and let me just flip to the page. What there is is $63 million is your liabilities. There's two large drivers of that. One is the bond anticipation note. That is $36.7 million. That's in your capital funds. And then the OPEB liability that was talking about is just under $20 million. You will find that OPEB is a extremely large liability, like Erie County example. I think their OPEB liability is about $1.2 billion.

I'm getting a ton of our size. When is this number with our revenue? When is this going to be upside down? When are we going to be in trouble?

Well, what you're gonna be doing is you're gonna be long-term bonding the bond anticipation note. And so you're gonna be converting that from what is now a current liability to a long-term liability and then budgeting for the payment of that over an extended period of time. So from a financial statement point of view, When you bond now, like right now, your bonds, you have almost no bonds, long-term bonds outstanding. It's 155,000 of bonds. And basically, that's how you fund your infrastructure for the town. You want to go out and... build a road unless you're getting funding from New York State DOT. You want to improve the building. Generally, you're going to end up bonding that. So for a town of your size, 155,000 of long-term bonds is extraordinarily small. But what you do have is this bond anticipation note that you're going to be converting into long-term, and that's what you've been utilizing to fund your capital addition. So at some point, you need to long-term bond that and then factor in into your annual budgets, the interest and the principal repayments on that long-term bond.

That's what I was trying to talk to you about when we met with Tim. We don't typically do it. They stay in this band.

No, I want to get them out of the short term.

Well, I mean, it's been advantageous.

I believe Corinne's here, but I think it's been advantageous because the interest rate is low. That's free money.

Yeah, that started my pain.

Well, I mean, at some point, and that's the problem is we do smaller scale projects that you can kind of get away with that. But if we start talking about some of that, the infrastructure improvements that are needed at the water plant that's going to be eight figures, you can't do it.

As I keep seeing the summary get bigger and bigger, and it's one way upside down.

Typically, we're seeing that size of finance efficient notes. They're usually smaller, again, very short-term, and they're just done as an interim step to long-term bonding of a project. Thank you. But again, for the government of this size, even when you factor in that, it's not that you're underwater as far as the debt that you have. I mean, you have constitutional limits on how much debt you can have outstanding, and you're nowhere near that limitation.

I just don't want to get near it either.

Absolutely. Deferred inflows of resources that had decreased by 2.5 million to a balance of 1.9. It was almost 4.5 last year. And again, that's due to changes related to the pensions and the OPEB. So again, on the government-wide financials, OPEB and the pension really drives a lot of the information. And quite frankly, all of that is outside of your control. You don't set health insurance rates. You don't manage the state pension fund. You are a participant. The New York State Pension Fund, they send you a report, and they tell you exactly what your share is, and that's how you record it into the underlying financial statements. But that will have various changes and swings from one year to the next. On the next page is the net position that had increased by $404,000 to a balance of $34.2 million. It was $33.8 last year. And that change is broken down into three types of classifications. One is net investment in capital assets had decreased by $6 million to a balance of $25.5. It was $31.5. excuse me, 31.5 last year. And your net investment in capital assets is the cost of all your assets, less depreciation, less all the debt outstanding to have funded those assets. So on your financial statements, you've got 25 million of net investment in the various capital assets of the town. Restricted, it increased by 6.7 million to a balance of 22.2. That was up from 15.4 last year. And that's due to an increase in the restricted cash and equivalents in the capital projects fund. And then the unrestricted net position decreased by 353,000 to a deficit balance of 13.5. And that is almost universal that... municipalities are going to have a deficit in their own district because of that OPEB liability. So your deficit is $13.5 million, but your OPEB liability is $19.8 million. So, you know, right off the bat, you're down by $6 million there. So again, that's still a permanent seed. The financial results for the government-wide continue on the next page. So this is the income statement side. So program revenue went up by $366,000 to a balance of 7.5 million. It was 7.2 last year. And that was due to the town having implemented the quarterly meter fees. The general revenue increased by 1.4 million to a balance of 21.2. It was 19.8 last year. And that was due to a... The donation of primarily infrastructure received, I believe it was the Gun Creek Section 5 construction had turned all that over to the town. So that ends up being recorded into the financial statements. And then on the expenditure side had increased by 2.9 million to a balance of 28.4 from 25.4. And that was mainly due to increases in salaries and the related benefits. And again, the impact of the pension and the OPEB go into these numbers. So the next couple of slides talk about the general fund. And again, this is what taxpayers think of when they're voting on the budget. This eliminates all of those long-term items. We won't be talking about the pension or the OPEB. The bonds are not in here. Your capital assets are not in here. This is really the annual revenue coming in and the annual expenditures going out tied to the budget. So on the asset side, the assets had decreased by $756,000 to a balance of $8.5 million, and that was due to decreases in investment balance. The investments actually had gone down from $5.9 million to $5.3 million at the end of 2025. On the liability side, they had increased by $231,000. You can see here these are much smaller numbers than we just got done talking about in the government-wide financials. That increase was $231,000 to a balance of $845,000. It was $614,000 at the end of last year. And that was due to an increase in the accounts payable. They had gone up from $248,000 to $411,000. And that's merely expenditures for goods and services. You receive them, but you didn't make the payment until after the end of the calendar year or the fiscal year.

What was that number?

I'm sorry 248 to 4. it was, it went from 248 to 411 and these numbers on page 17 of the overall financial statements.

Okay, thank you.

And then the net change in the general fund fund balance decreased by 800, excuse me, 988,000 to a balance of 7.6M dollars. It was 8.6 at the end of last year. Don't know account we're spending more and making less. And it did go down, but the general fund, and that's what we're going to cover on the next page, that fund balance is where you want to focus on because it's broken down into four components that you can see there. And that's on the next page. And again, these numbers are on page 17 of the financials. Those four items are non-expendable. And that increased $43,000 to a balance of $537,000. And that's primarily your prepaid expenditures. So what it is, is you pay for insurance in November. It runs for part of 26. And so you've got a prepayment that you're going to get the benefit of in the following fiscal year. So that's that is not expendable fund balance. And so again, that 537,000 was all the prepaid expenses. Then you have the restricted fund balance or your reserves that increased by 422,000 to a balance of 1.1 million. It was 677,000 at the end of last year. And again, there are obviously restrictions on those reserves and how you can expend those. Then what you did is you have assigned fund balance, and that increased by $1.2 million to a balance of $4.6 million. And there's really two items within that. There's encumbrances, which means you've entered into contracts for items that you don't really incur until $26 million. And so that is set aside into the assigned balance. and then the amount that you have appropriated for the subsequent year budget. And so the combination of those two results in that $4.6 million. And then what's left over is the unassigned, and that decreased by $2.6 million to a balance of $1.3 million. That last year was at just over $4 million. It's down to 1.3 now. So as an example, unless financial results in 25 were much better than you budgeted, you wouldn't have money available to appropriate into the fund. the 27 budget year, because you're only going to have 1.3 million in your unassigned fund balance right now. Now, certainly 26's financial results can drop some more money into that, but that number has gone down and you're not at a number that you're going to have a lot of flexibility in budgeting going forward with it now being down to that 1.3 million. So that's probably the biggest area of issue and concern, because if you were to look at your budget, there's a schedule on page 53 of the actual financial statements that basically shows the original budget, the final budget. And so, as an example, your budget was $8.4 million of revenue, $11.8 million of expenditures, but you are utilizing unassigned fund balance to make up that difference, which is obviously something that's allowable.

But over the years, we've used our savings account.

Effectively, that's the bottom line. It's a rainy day fund. The barrel is thin. So the next couple of lines have to do with the revenue and the expenditures. So revenue decreased by 214,000 to a balance of 9.6. So, you know, you took in 9.6 between property taxes and state and federal aid received. And then the expenditure side, you know, expenditure increased by 744,000 to just over 11 million. So it's never great when revenue is going down and expenditures are going up, obviously. So that is everything I wanted to cover, but certainly be happy to go into any depth you'd like or go over any questions that you have on anything.

I know that you don't do, I mean, tell us how to spend our money. At the beginning, you say we're doing fine, but I don't think if we are spending more than we're bringing in, we're heading for a train wreck.

Well, you're doing fine from the everything from an accounting point of view was properly recorded. When I said it's an unmodified opinion, we don't give you an opinion on the long-term prospects.

I'm afraid that's not something we can do. It looks like we're heading for a checkbook out of money. Yes.

What we're saying is basically the accounting records have been properly recording everything that you've undertaken. There were no issues with regards to how- It's all legal. Exactly. Long-term financial viability with assigned fund balance, unassigned fund balance, that is not something that the unmodified opinion addresses at all.

I get it. Same clear to me. That's very clear. Let's go to the list. A water plant that needs to have two million, a ship plant that keeps breaking, or running out of money. Do I really want to be on the council?

He's our... Let's be budgeted by almost a million dollars.

Can I have the hand of the crap for your time to be honest? Why was I here when we were rich?

Well, at least we're legal in how we're doing it, so we don't have another problem there.

There's no issues with regards to any of that.

I appreciate you coming out. Thank you so much. I found that very helpful.

Even as the year goes along, if you ever have any questions, certainly don't hesitate to get a hold of us. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, everyone. Have a great evening. You too. All right, for your delay. No problem.

Yes. Sorry about that.

That's over there. Oh, okay. Great. That's what we're waiting for to be able to finalize this. Yeah.

All right. Great.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

All right. Well, back to the start. Agenda review.

Peter, I put the e-bike thing to set a public hearing. I know I sent you the comments that came from EDAB and traffic.

Yeah, does the board want to talk about any of that? I mean, it's the board's law. They don't make any modifications, but I know that it's been sent to everybody, so.

Yeah, I mean, the stuff that came from EDAB was really just making sure the classifications are in concert, and they made that suggestion about allowing it on roads that are over 30 miles an hour if they allow regular bikes on the road. I didn't see a problem. I sent that to the town police and back to traffic safety, and they didn't see an issue with it at all.

What about the golf cart? They sent that report, but they also... Let me just get to it. There were a couple of... It was one word. I want to pull that out. I don't think this applies to our law at all, this point of sale, that human power.

I think that was in the original 1986 law, the human power thing.

Yeah, there's some weird stuff because there was a law that existed but was written as to technology at the time. And there was no such thing as an e-bike. So we kind of added.

The e-bike portion is an addendum to an existing law. We didn't change any of the existing laws language.

Yeah. So some of the existing law, you might look at and say, this is a little bit unusual here or there, but I tried to blend them together.

I'm just making sure I pass.

Understood.

What if it's dog powered? Let's get crazy. What if someone can train ferrets to pull a cart down the street? We should probably legislate that too. I don't think we have to overthink it. Our concern is kids riding around unsafe.

In the summer.

Any bikes and scooters and things of that nature. And if it gets real ticky-tacky and weird, the cops will figure it out. That's what they do.

It gives them power to do something. Do something. Nothing less and to find nothing less.

Yes. It's the ultimate goal. I spoke with Dr. Graham today. He's very anxious to have this passed because he thinks it's important.

I gave you guys a lot of paperwork. One of my items, the procedure, did that because it went to long range in January. And it seems to have been very difficult for people to grasp exactly what we were looking to do with it. So I tried to really simplify it and do line by line for comment and additional suggestions. And I copied you on everything that I planned to send to the boards and the department heads. For example, The legislation that we've been working with that would have gone. 1st, go to everyone instead of you having to wait and send it and get and it would be a timeline for you to get all that back.

Right, right.

So that you could then move forward and we're not schools out and we're still.

I mean, 1 of the things that came up at the planning. Monday is also the. I guess trying to spread the needle between making sure the advisory boards get. stuff so that they feel appropriate without sending them stuff they don't need to comment on, which that conversation was preceded by the planning board's discussion about whether or not by law that the comment on by the planning board was essentially zero relevance whatsoever to planning or site plan review or anything like that. So same thing here, you know, look, physicality is. The old saying that opinions are like, you know what, and everybody has one, as you know, we as a board Are we going to complicate our lives more if we send every single thing to everybody for an opinion? The whole point of the advisory boards is to get that board's comments based on their expertise, not the opinions of the members that are on that board, regardless of whether or not it falls within their area of expertise.

So to clarify, that's the one thing we're trying to identify is the triggers of what does go.

Right.

But to your point, I'm going to use two examples. One is historic didn't, this is going back maybe two years ago to a plan, a big development, historic didn't get it. Later, there's a historic piece on that property and they didn't get say so. So the solution to that is if it falls into the triggers that we're trying to determine, there is a return sheet that goes to planning board that says no comment. It doesn't apply to us. It's fine, no comment. But it shows that they can't come back later and say, oh, we didn't, we're not valued. We're dealing with right now, With this e-bike thing, EDAB felt their humor doesn't count because they didn't see it in time when everybody else did. Maybe it's optics, maybe it's necessary.

I mean, that's the problem. Are they mad just because they didn't get a say or like what? Yeah. Honestly, EDAB probably, and I think we talked like, well, somebody told me they were kind of bent out of shape, but at the end of the day, I think EDAB's comments were their concerns with the e-bike law did fall within their scope of expertise and impact that it would have on potential economic development, which is fine, but.

I'm not sure the right answer, Tom, which is why we're trying.

I think we still, we need to err on the side of caution, but we're mindful of the fact that in doing so, we may end up getting a whole bunch of feedback that these boards expect us to listen to that we may have to just politely tell them.

Thanks, but yeah, there's some, I mean, you're saying that they felt like, I mean, this was referred in May. Now, I don't know how I didn't get on anyone's agenda or anywhere. It was referred in May. If it makes the planning board in June and barely made it in July, like, the day before now, I know we have. Issues with the secretary there, but it. know what point i i just don't it also how quickly do they gotta get it hey i just had a thought let's send it to the advisory boards so they can think about my thought so they got nine months to think about your thoughts i mean i just don't know where where the line is you send it read it if you like it if you don't say something and we'll incorporate or we won't I know that's oversimplifying it. No, it's really not.

Because there's not a process, and that's part of this. So who's going to send it? Does it come from the clerk's office? Because a resolution is made, and now it gets sent. Who's responsible for the profits?

You normally put them in their boxes, right? Right after the meeting.

But then who collects them? Who's sending it to planning board? Who gets covered? It seems simple, but we don't have it.

Last Monday, actually, when... The chairman didn't realize that the planning board had a mailbox because the planning board mailbox was historically emptied by the secretary who was gone. So when we went in there, they had all the resolutions and the referrals dating back to January were sitting in the mailbox.

But the referral says, make sure that someone does this in a timely manner and refer to them properly.

But the new procedure gives them a timeline.

Yeah, but how is it proper?

They all have mailboxes. And that's what happens. The resolutions go to the mailboxes. They're there to check their mailboxes and put it on their agendas.

Why don't we have an email address to all chair people that pertain?

We do.

We get a resolution, flip it to the chairman so it puts it on his agenda. Then it becomes the chairman's responsibility to put it on his agenda. Because, I mean, all the things I've ever in charge of the chair, the chairperson puts the agenda together, right? So, if we email them. The resolution the next day, instead of just doing paper, because I think papers might be messing things up here. At least we have an email, we have an email trail that we gave it to your chairperson. He did not.

It's happened.

I know what I'm saying. It makes it easier for us. It comes off of ours, and it comes off the clerk.

Regardless of where it goes, we need to define it, and this is the problem I see. There is no clearly written process that stands alone. Right now, we have one that was done in 23, but it was lumped in with design standards, so it seems to be the way out, and it's just pigeon to large projects. It's just to have a separate process that this is what happens and who collects all these. And do you wait? I mean, we had an instance where we're waiting for something back, feedback back on a project and it was six months and we didn't have it because there was no timeline to say, we're not waiting on the next one or who's going to call the next one or who's going to alert the next one. I mean, it just needs to be clearly defined regardless of what we decide.

I guess the reality is though, And I'm sure they're sick of hearing it, but we need to tell them once they get a referral, they have one meeting to comment. We don't wait forever. And I tell that to the planning board every time. You do what you want with it, but if you table it, you might not ever have an opportunity to deal with it again. And if they don't like it, well, bye.

That's what the process currently will say. The tricky part of that is you have no comment, you like it, you're in agreement, or you see this is an issue and you state it, or you red flag it. Example, traffic safety. They saw Aldi. This is an issue. This intersection is going to be issued. They needed to have time to go to DOT and Erie County and get that situated. So then they could, at least when planning board sees it, they know here's a problem, a solution's coming. Although by the time planning board met, they already had their solution because everybody saw it at once. I think there's faults in what we're doing now in the fall is that it's not clearly defined and it's not adopted where town board holds people accountable for it. And just because we ask for a bunch of department heads, advisory boards, whoever we ask. It's just to get all the information we can. It doesn't mean that you incorporate every suggestion into it. But at least everyone's had a voice. And when you do the process, I don't work in building. So they may know something I don't. So it can fine tune how it happens. Because right now, Tom, you know it as well as I do. We're getting a lot of this. And clarity prevents that. And I'm not faulting people that go, no, go here, go there. It's because it's not clear. So that's the biggest thing I'm looking for is whatever this process is, however deep or wide it is that it's clear. And nobody has any, when you take that away and you give it clarity, you either find out it's not quite right yet, or yay. You take that complaining and that, um, uncertainty away and hopefully it makes things run smoother. That's my goal. Not to say everything that we have to stop the world for 20 groups.

Some things will have complexity too. Like we refer the best law. And that turned into a snowball at the top of, oh, now it's a big boulder from cab and all the input that we really needed. So some things will take longer than 30 days. I mean, the little stuff is easier, but when we're trying to recreate a battery law and we send it to some smarter people and they have comment and time.

We just have to understand that some things will take longer.

But they're going to tell you that.

But other times we're going to, I mean, we have prescriptions with respect to site plan review and timelines that we have to act on regardless of what policy proceed. Like, I mean, that's the reality. Traffic safety, Aldi, like, it might take you six months to do this. But the reality is we might be in a position where we need to act. And frankly, we're better positioned to get that information more quickly. So them just telling us what they need is one thing. But I think we have to get away from to the extent we can. With local laws, we can do what we want. They take forever. But when you're talking about like site plan applications and things where we have prescribed timelines, we have to make it clear to our boards. It is not going to be a back and forth over several months.

No, it's 30 days. So if something's referred within 30 days, there should be a meeting. And someone said, well, someone, we don't meet three months a year. Well, then you forfeit your opinion. It's called a special meeting.

But more often than not, they meet and then they, okay, well, we have questions about X, Y, and Z, and we're not going to talk about it until we get answers. Well, But, yeah, from your opinion, I think that's with what you have, as we implement this stuff, it needs to be clear that the expectation is. You get it, you just say your piece and we're moving on.

Well, as I was recently told that I need to be held accountable as a liaison. I think we need to be held accountable as an advisory board. And if your opinion is of that value, you have 30 days to give an opinion and at least say, we think that these two things might be a solution planning board, but it works both ways. We can't carry all the load and hold up everything. I'm not saying that we give 60 days for anything, it's 30 days.

That's, oh, I agree. But again, like I said, it has to be 30 days to do it. Not 30 days to say we need more time. So like I said, I'm on board. It makes sense. But we just unified them.

But I changed this and I made it line by line because I have spent hours and hours explaining and discussing this like two, three-hour meetings in a row and then turn around and have a question at the next one. And I'm glad to give it. But it finally hit me. Whatever I'm saying, it's not getting through. It's like too big of a thing. So I broke it down and I want to try it one more time. If we can't fine tune it, then I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Then I guess we're just not going to have such a defined process.

I think we should.

I think it has to be line by line because when I was explaining this, it's like it's just too much. Well, what about if it has open space? What about if it has? That's what the advisory board is supposed to tell planning board. We already know all that. We don't need to send it anywhere. Building code enforcement can sign off on it and send it to us. That's why we have specialty areas to give us.

Right, but that, I mean, therein lies the problem. Like you get a site plan application, the planning board's going to have 30 days to act on it. We're going to have 30 days to act on it. There may not be time for the conservation advisory board to give their comments to the planning board, to the planning board to consider those. And it can't, unfortunately, it's not, we're the ones that compile all of the opinion, all of the recommendations and make our opinion because that's the way that it's more often than not needs to be.

So things go to the planning board and no board has seen it.

The planning board is the only one. Sorry to interrupt. The planning board is the one that's hardwired.

Yeah, I understand that.

So planning board, certain types of applications must. Local laws that amend the zoning code must go to planning. That sometimes is voluntary. That's not statutory, but the town board included that in its rewrite of the zoning code some years ago. Beyond that, the planning board is the initial advisory board in connection with site plans and certain other things. And for those items, there's timeframes. And the town has to take action within certain times. Everything beyond that is, I mean, ZBA goes to ZBA. The zone track doesn't end up to the town board. All of the other referrals that you get are purely advisory. These are town board decisions at the end of the day. Historically, there has not been that much referral. You know, you heard from planning when they were upset that certain things should have been referred to them because the modified chapter, the zoning code and that stuff should be referred to that. But beyond that, it's just, you know, wherever you think you would value input. But at the end of the day, the buck stops with you guys.

And I guess that's the thing. I'm not saying it's for the stuff that's on the stuff with prescribed timelines. It's harder to do what you're because we learned this even with the best law like at the end of the day it was valuable to have the planning board get the comments from the conservation advisory board and then try to accommodate those and there's times with that where we had that's on our time but some of the site plan stuff there's probably not going to be an opportunity for the planning board to consider input from all of the other boards before they make their decision because they're going to have

So one of the breakdowns in my explanation, when we did this procedure, it was to do an informal meeting right off the bat when it hits. Aldi is an example. It's the only thing I know of, and this was done right before Aldi. It's the only one I know of that happened this way. Aldi came in, all of their information, all the chairs went, all the pertinent department heads, everybody got it, and then it went. So you're starting all on ground zero. But right now we're looking at this for projects that are a new building of 5,000 square feet or an expansion of 5,000, 10 acres or more of development. Except for a single family residence, they could have one house. That's not our deal. Requested zoning changes and major subdivisions.

So those are the things. The first couple that are going to be site plan applications. That's going to be the problem. The other stuff, we have control. So we'd have to just kind of. Dig into it a little more, like you said, line by line and kind of flush out.

One of the things that I saw was when something has substantial amount of changes and I don't know what substantial is going to be. That's why I'm asking, like, what would substantial be? And it doesn't go anywhere. So infrastructures. I didn't take it. I really hadn't thought, to be honest, I thought everything needed to go to planning board because they used all of that expertise in their decisions, right? I did not realize it was such a, I'll be honest, I've been here six years, I didn't realize it was such a standalone thing that input wasn't given.

It's so standalone that they do have the ability to call for their own public hearings before they make their recommendations. Other boards don't have that, but they have 30 days from the time to consider it and make a recommendation to the town board where it's deemed it's an automatic approval, right?

Yeah. Many municipalities have the planning board make the approvals. I mean, when the town rewrote its code, it's historically kept solely advisory determinations by the town board statutorily. 274 of the town law, planning boards are authorized to issue certain decisions themselves, kind of like zoning. But the town board, some town boards ago, decided to keep the Grand Island Planning Board as a recommending body. But that doesn't slow down the time frame in any material way. I mean, still, if somebody wants to proceed with a development project, they've got the right to have their permit, their site plan, whatever it is that they're looking at acting on.

So what I've witnessed when I was in a different role was the bounce back. town board refer here, come back to town board, town board refer here, come back to town board. So the goal was to get it all done at one time.

Which I think is fine. No, which is how it needs to be.

Then it's not going to be 30 days because we meet twice a month.

Right.

Because it was once and. Within 30 days from now, everyone will see it, but at times it wasn't done that way for a long time.

I think the thing we can't count on and what you were trying to say is. The planning board can't expect to get every single person's comment before they think about commenting on a, they're going to have to stand alone and comment on unless it's something that's specific that they need comment from somebody board.

can anticipate being able to receive another board's comments before they render them correct it's not well a cab gets to wait for the planning board to make their decision or vice versa it's no you that's that's not what i'm saying i'm just trying to create a vehicle to get as much as we can to them it sounds like it doesn't matter if it gets there It matters if it's, and that's going back to where we started is I'm fine with sending everything to everybody, but again, same thing. We all need to be prepared to sometimes tell them no to say like, you know what? Yes, I got referred to you because we send everything to everybody, but we don't expect you to be out over your skis. Traffic safety, you comment on issues related to traffic safety. Conservation, you're commenting explicitly on issues related to conservation and everybody stays in their lane because if we end up with Everybody kind of overstepping and trying to comment on everybody. It's going to be... No, it's pertinent to your area. That's what we expect, but the reality is the feedback, we need to be prepared.

Yeah, going forward, I think the clarity is good. Cab started with the e-bike and they started asking and then, you know, they started going down a rabbit hole and then the chairman said, wait a second, we're the conservation board. We don't have any sale or e-bike stuff. We got other things to talk about. Let's move on. And I thought that was appropriate.

Exactly.

Because it started, well, what if my cousin's uncle's friend bought an e-bike and it was, you know, he charged it for three hours and you're like, oh my God.

So I think we're all on the same page. It's just looking at... What could happen sitting down, but to really clarify what our process is the right where it goes and where it goes when you receive the referral review the document.

If there's something that's in your field of expertise based on your board's charter. Make a comment if not click noted.

That was a given to me, so, but I'll clarify that process we refer.

Those of the clerk, the clerk, you should have your little checklist. This has been referred to you. Your board has 30 days for comment. Please follow your checklist and if it's within your charter, your wheelhouse and the checklist with everyone and tell them notice 30 day comment period.

That's exactly what we're looking at doing.

So what goes to all these boards and what everything Peter. Pictures of you.

When we're looking at fine-tuning it, and I don't know if you got a packet, but there were some areas like, let's say, all the legislation that's been done, Ag Board, Best Law, e-bike, that seemed to be a delayed response to other boards, or they didn't get it back. It's not that every board needed to comment on that. but it still should go for them to decide whether something touched them or not.

The proposal of the law. So for like a zoning change, for example.

Zoning change is already there, but not every single zoning change. We're not trying to make it every single thing, but what are the big items? A subdivision, Gunn Creek.

Well, the reason I ask is because it's a lot of work for the boards to go. It's like the battery storage law. If you had recreation board, look at that and decide whether that's something that fits within their wheelhouse. And if so. Comment on it, it's a lot of volunteer time for a lot of people.

I think I think the initial thing the clerk sends them is the initial thing is does not apply. The chairman can make the decision does not apply to our board and send it right back just for your. FYI, that's good.

Well, the comments I get are Radisson property had a site plan. I believe it was Radisson. It either has the ice house or the smoke house. I don't know which one. I think it's the ice house that was on it. And they didn't see that. They didn't get to look at that. They would have said there's a historical piece on there. They didn't need to tell us.

It was...

I'm just telling you what I've heard. I'm just trying to fine-tune the process so I don't keep getting these emails and this town board doesn't care about us.

We're hearing it one way now, and when you send them everything and ignore their comments, we're going to get it the same way, but for another reason. We just need to be judicious with it.

So do we want to take a look at what we have and get input and see if we can fine tune it or simplify it and knock all of that out? And it's just to the very minimum, have a process of when and where? Are you on board with, I mean, where are we? Do we want a clear process?

Yeah. I want them to know this is your referral. If it's not in your wheelhouse, move on. If it's in your wheelhouse, you got 30 days to send a response.

I guess therein lies the problem because I'm not trying to be difficult, but when we... We're always trying to be difficult. What the point is, a lot of times people didn't get the referrals because we made the determination that it wasn't in their wheelhouse and we didn't need to give them the referral.

Right. So there's little ones like the property mayants law. Cab was like, listen, you know, we want to make sure you're not cutting pollinate. We would have liked to have seen that. And they did see it ultimately.

But there's not some stuff that wasn't inadvertently missed where, yeah, you know what? they probably could have had a comment on that and i don't think it was ever meant to be malicious but by not referring something to certain boards that was the town board making that determination and now we're just asking them to do it which again if they do it the right way we don't end up with the conversation that i think we'll have but in my experience when stuff gets referred to them they're going to wheelhouse or not so

In terms of what's historically been done for perspective, not that you need to do it this way. You've got that which is required and hardwired. So those are always done. Any SOP needs to include that. It's like step one. Then beyond that, referrals of typically been made where there was an area of anticipated interest or expertise by a particular board, but not to all boards. So if it was an impacted REC something, or other MIT parks and recreation, obviously it was modifying zoning or whatever planning would see it um and cab would see you know cabins i think role has grown over the years uh cab is probably getting more things than historically has but we have a lot of advice but we can always start we can change policies if we let's do something i think it would be nice to get all the input and the fine lines and then we'll cut through what we don't want because it's coming back to us corinne says she's got to get off the line so

Imagine she was in the waiting room. She's in the meeting. Okay. She needs to get off in a few minutes. Okay. We'll speak about whatever she's speaking about.

I assume a payable policy. Somebody else put that on?

Yeah, the accounts payable policy.

Okay. The floor is yours.

So pretty much with the new software, instead of having Pete sign everything after the board meeting, it would need prior approval so that it will go into Jackie's queue in order to get that same payroll report. But no checks will be able to be printed until we get the board's approval. So the audit process will still continue to be the same. And it will also allow Pete to actually see these expenses ahead of time before they're paid out. And that's really the only change is everything needs to go through an approval process, but Jackie needs it in her queue to actually get the right report. So it can't go to Jackie for a report and then go to Pete.

Who's the approval process?

So, um, we'll say, um, you know, we'll just use building. If Kim puts it in as like a voucher to be paid, Ron is their department head. We'll approve it. Then it will go to Pete for a prior approval. And then it will go to Jackie to get payroll and the audit ready. And then the audit process will still be the same where two board members review it through, um, the report and they can look at the vouchers. And then, um, then it will, checks will be printed after the board meeting still as it is now.

Let's say we pull one and we want to unapprove it. How do we do that?

Oh, then we can decline it and send it back.

Same as you would now. Okay, so the system will allow you to pull it out even after Pete's approved it?

Yeah. No checks get written until town board issues file approval, right?

Correct. So then you're probably also going to have to put together the ability for that.

Or to view only. Yep.

At least. Yeah. Well, not just if you owe me, but if Pete's gone for a week and you're going to need pre-approval, then the deputy supervisor or.

Yep. I can replace it to whoever the deputy supervisor is at that time.

Okay.

So they enter it into a system.

Instead of it being done afterwards. Yeah.

Correct.

So, I mean, they're entering it into a forehand so that you guys have the audit to review.

Correct.

It won't print out the audit paper. I get it.

Yeah. If it's not in our queue, then we can't print a report from it.

I had suggested to Corinne that she put this on just because I didn't want to have some process that Pete was being asked to issue something called an approval without kind of outlining for the board the policy that is going to be in place. So it's not a real approval, and there is no real approval until it just needs to be done. It needs to be done as part of the administrative process. So I suggested to Corinne that she.

Yeah, that's why it says prior approval.

That's the way it works.

That's the way it works. All right.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's it. Did you need me for Kellyanne's portion or is her letter enough?

She sent an email that she was trying to type at either table.

I don't think we need it.

Thanks.

Yeah, you're all set.

All right. Thanks.

Bye.

Was there any other advisory board review?

I can do a quick one. This is EDAP wanting me to share with you the selection for the boxes. This is one lovely. This is going to be over by Pegabine on Love and South Park. These two, get confused over which one is going to be there. One's going to be on Bedell and Grand Island Boulevard. The other is going to be in Five Tops.

Excellent.

So that was lovely. I don't know if you guys watched the last few meetings. I don't know how they really approach this, to be honest with you, but they have some concerns about their place in the town and their teeth. what their guide rails are, guard rails are, how they're supposed to help businesses, promote businesses. I think that's stemming a lot from the inability to approach businesses for the 10% discount for the hike and for the community calendar, working with businesses. I think a lot of that settles with legal, but they have not scheduled that appointment with you yet, Peter. So maybe that will help it, but I just want to make you guys aware they are looking for guardrails on how they actually function in promoting economic development. Um, I, I have not looked back through it since I've been liaison. I know reversal group reversal, right? Did that study and vessel and they did. Like, a checklist in there, there's the matrix. So I think there's some tools that they could use.

I would say this should be 0 card notes, except for legal. Well, that's what I mean, I mean, we, we want to do this for guardrails on economic development. We need it. if they have great ideas, let's promote it within our legal,

So I think a lot will rest on the conversation with Peter. And I've assured them they have support from the board. It's just that everything has to be looked at in a broader scope. The calendar thing, we've had a lot of issues in the past with social media. So those things have to be thought of because ultimately- Peter, is there a value of making them a corporation or something?

Remember the I love New York stuff? It was like that. I mean, some of the things that they had in their visions.

You know, could be done by a private organization. I had suggested to them perhaps partnering with the Grand Chamber of Commerce or, you know, some ideas that are great private ideas. But, you know, as the public, we can't decide to allow this event on and not that event on and it gets to be challenging.

They do have chamber representation at the next EDAB meeting so they can talk about chambers plans. I don't know that this is anything we're going to have a solution to tonight. I want to make you all aware of it. And until they finish their discussion with Peter, I think we're kind of, I just stand still to see where they land. Jen sits on EDAB. Does that sum it up close enough?

Yeah, it's a combination of a few things. I think the direction had a lot of changeover on the board. And through that changeover, there's been some problems with understanding where the position is on what they should do and shouldn't do. So I'm going to help facilitate in the years that I've been there to see if I can help guide that a little bit more further. As far as the calendar goes, there's been a lot of conversation around that and Peter, we appreciate you willing to talk to them without taking your meeting. But the one thing that they do challenge with just as a preemptive discussion with the chamber is that the chamber and their bylaws can only be part of things, can only promote businesses that are members of the chamber. So that's where the EDAP gets very, they get, this will be a question we can talk about later, but that's where they get stuck with, yeah, we like, we have the chamber on board and that. So that's one of the challenges of going around that. So for present discussion, but right now they're kind of looking at the calendars just basically as a town wide, just all of our departments that we already have that are actually government.

What is the EDAP's mission statement? I mean, it's a supervisor committee.

It's not like it doesn't statutorily exist, meaning there's like limited, there's different ways that committees and advisory can be formed. And you can't just decide that you want to create, you could create a local law. the town board could create a local law that charters uh certain things but that's not what edad is he the economic development advisory board was started years ago, remember, maybe it goes back a ways. And it was initially called the Supervisors Committee for Economic Development. And then it kind of grew a bit in admission and scope. But it's it doesn't exist under like the town code. It's kind of a, it falls under the Supervisors Committee, meaning it's, we let economic development up to the chamber.

And listen, and we gave them money every year from the town and said, promote the town. And we left it in the hands of the business people to promote. It seems like we have a layer here. It seems like needs to work with the chamber and we need to support the change. It seems like it would be an easier path. Yeah, hands off because they're already incorporated. If we didn't have a chamber, I'd see would have a lot more.

I think that they're going to meet with the chamber at the next meeting. It's very positive thing.

Okay.

So, again, this is to make you aware.

And like the market analysis report that came out this the nine steps that were in there and things that came out of the market analysis for economic development to work on that was at $30,000, whatever. That has kind of fallen back some which is which I hope to bring up at the meeting myself and open my voice a little bit more to that. But there's things in there that we can be working on that are in there. It's just some conversations that I would like to sit with Peter with that board and have just from my history as to, okay, these things that came out of economic development or out of that market analysis, where are the lines, right? Because there's things about promoting this, doing this, touching base, working on, you know, the center of town. Like, there's a lot of different questions, but it's a way bigger conversation that can happen at this point. And I think it's a lot of just a lot of confusion and trying to realign where the board is going to go. And I think one of the, it's kind of on a downfall right now because we had, we had someone from the school that worked with us for a year to work that community calendar up. and whatnot. And the impression the Economic Development Board had is the town was on board with it and knew, because they kind of, we kind of got the sign off that was like, go for it. So there was like a year's worth of work put in. And I think when it was kind of throwback to them, I mean, I, goes without saying we're on here a lot and no offense, it usually happened. But that day when you came in, it was just that kind of threw them back as to it was like, well, what did we even do this for kind of thing? Because they thought they already got the clear to do it. So what my advice to them is, let's talk to legal and let's see where we can find a balance in here somewhere or another direction. As to where that line is and moving forward. But the best thing we can do right now is to talk to you and you can give us some guidance on that. And if it can go forward where it can go forward and then bring it back to the town board.

There's definitely things that can be done.

The other part is what happened two weeks ago at our meeting is a lot of why having a community calendar open to the public. puts us at risk.

End of story. Yeah. My confusion lies in taking us out of it, taking EDAB, a committee of the town, and filtering all of the Chamber of Commerce and letting EDAB, let the same people at EDAB work for the Chamber of Commerce. Then the Chamber of Commerce has a lot more free, they can produce a county, they don't have to ask us for nothing. We can give them a set amount of money annually to promote Grand Island.

And that's it. I totally see where you're going, Dan. You never have those rings. Eric's going to come in and we're going to discuss what it's that finding the line as to what the chamber can do with their bylaws versus what we can do and where they can step in forthright without paying a sponsorship fee or being part of the chamber. There's a lot of questions that have to be had. And I think it's just there's a lot of new board members on that board. And there's some great talent in there and a lot of ideas. It just, it needs to be focused and directed. And I hope to be able to come back to you within a month or two here and we can talk more. And then we can, I would love to have a conversation with you from what you, what was going on in Austin and how we can bridge those.

You got it. If you don't invest in it, if you don't invest.

There's a, there's a, there's a miss there. And we don't need to be doing this. And another reason why I said, I've been pure New York forward. We got it.

That's what I have. You guys can look at. I'll send you the digital copy. It's just an overview of zoning reform. All of you have asked me about it. It is a tedious job. There's a lot of, we keep referring to it as a spider web, but this is a general outline of what is going on. There's a presentation they are hoping to make to the board end of summer. So we'll make some progress there. I made some copies because I've got the email, so I'm just trying to pull out of a long thread. There you go. We kind of broke down what's happening in the process of what's going on with it.

That's how I think it's more of a... Historics, happy.

Love them.

Traffic safety, happy.

Good job with building that board back up.

Oh, traffic's saved. It's almost there. We've only got one vacancy, and I think Charlie Grunswick's going to take it. He's coming back. Okay, I'm going to meet with them this Thursday. You know, they sent their last resolution to the entire board. I sent it to Bob and Ron. Talked to Bob today that he has to respond. We'll respond soon. We'll go from there.

Unlike Jose, I am a failure when it comes to ag. I can't get a board back together. So I'm reporting failure. That's liaisons, ag, chairperson. Everything's going to hell. The corn's not going to grow. The wheat's not going to grow. I can't get any traction on that, but I'm going to. I guess what we'll do, I'll take all my own little meetings. I'm just liaising on, see if we get...

That's what I did for a couple months. I just kind of ran it and someone stepped up.

Thanks for your leadership on that. I'm going to take your lead on that.

Iron sharpens iron.

What's that?

Iron sharpens iron.

But that's it for me. That and the library. Everyone's been watching the library. So there's stuff. So you guys follow that one? Why are you laughing about that? I'm not laughing at stuff.

All I had was planning. They approved the best law subject to a couple of minor changes, which appear to be refunded in the version that's in the packet. So that's good. Still want to make sure they get stuff. That's probably about it. The e-bike, there was discussion there because that originated with the Traffic Safety Advisory Board. But there's somebody who's going to be there to present and answer questions and sell them on it.

I think they realize it's not in their area. I had a question about this sales thing. Why is planning the only advisory board that needs everything sold to them? All the rest of them can just read it and make the contract.

That's a good question. You didn't have to ask the planning board. is there a requirement something in the code or something that they need a full-on presentation where it gets stable they tangle everything if they don't have an applicant show up and essentially their position was well somebody referred this to us so somebody should be here to talk about it okay but that's just a position that shows it's not cut correct uh right i think that's it for those they'll have a secretary for next meeting well the secretary for next meeting i met her she's going to sit down Dave has offered to sit down with her and kind of try to clarify and make sure they put together a good system for when stuff does get referred to them, what comes in hard copy versus maybe available to electronic if they need it. So we'll work through that. There's been a lot of frustration with respect to that, but I think now that they're going to have them, like I said about the, some of it, we figured out the problem was then that nobody was checking the mailbox. I don't even think it seems like even one. The last recording secretary was there. Perhaps she didn't check it either because there was stuff dating back to January in there. But we can fix the past, but we can make sure we do better moving forward. Good job.

All right.

Accounting part-time clerical position. I have a lot of questions that need to be asked in executive session. I am just taking their employees.

Yeah, but I would just say, you know, I understand Kellyanne's issue and her concerns. I don't believe adding a position is the right move, but maybe restructuring some of the workload is probably appropriate.

Would that be executive session discussion?

What's the question? Discussion on the personnel and who can do it or what? Yeah, I mean, I think. Capabilities limitations and assignments of personnel as well as restrictions under union contracts and things would be appropriate for the advice and. Okay, appropriate personnel for the session.

Contract for expensive services. I mean, I've been on. Bob did. It doesn't need to be acted on today. He wanted us to see if basically to give it to Peter, have him take a look. If we have any questions. He called me earlier and asked if we wanted us, if we wanted him to be here today. I said, well, you don't need it acted on. Probably not. Take a look at it and then if you have any questions next time.

Is this like an RFP that went out? Because I wasn't familiar with us looking at something like this.

I don't think an RFP at all. It's just he's been doing it. for a long time.

It actually says, yeah, I think so.

Yes, previous rates don't apply and stuff like that. I just didn't know if I missed something that was planning that we're just starting this up. This is new.

It's not new. It's just increasing rates and reaffirming, I guess, a prior relationship. So Peter, I want to take a look at that and we can talk about it. HAB-Terry Palmos- Excellent.

HAB-Terry Palmos- So good. HAB-Terry Palmos- From your perspective, yeah, I think the other issues, just like on the business side, what are we engaging him to do this is like a broad engagement letter with like hourly rates and things, but it's not the scope of the project. HAB-Terry Palmos- And the results and timeframe are.

HAB-Terry Palmos- Well, I think it's just every single time. HAB-Terry Palmos- If there isn't asbestos anything that seven someone in the Chamber ready to go.

HAB-Terry Palmos- It's kind of like hiring that he didn't think idea. HAB-Terry Palmos- Right. Yeah.

Um, all right, follow up on composting.

Yeah, I want her the presentation. I sent Peter their little agreement. Is there an appetite here to move forward? With it, I'd like to figure out what the cost would be.

But I don't see why we would especially with what we got coming up with garbage collection.

I mean, people other than that, it's going to be it's only the only cost we would incur would be that transport to the correctional facility area there. Yes. Highway is okay with it. I don't have any issues with it. All right. So if I could get clearance from highway, you guys. Yeah. Moving forward for a supervisor. So you're pending highways concurrence. You send me the time.

I'm trying to find it out.

Yeah. I sent it. I sent it the day that day or that night. It came from the king fellow's name. I think it's a composting. typically i always have a campus and this leaves request for that community yeah we got a couple emails about it and um you know i hear people talking and people have gone to erie county to get the thing and then they're going um somewhere to drop their stuff off so there has been You know, it doesn't seem like it would be a big lift for us as long as we can transport it. I'm just trying to see where, when was our last meeting? What was the date? 7-6, yeah. 7-6?

Either way. Yeah, I'll get it to you either way.

If we're okay with that.

Late to field, I see it. Yeah, okay. Just didn't have a lot of time.

It's because it's a plate going to a field.

Oh, I should enter executive session.

Wait, wait, wait.

No, I want to add something if I can. I don't know if you guys have, again, I got some residents all concerned about the hotspot thing. Pete's at it right now. That's where he is. Right. I sat in this morning, too.

Yeah, I just want to make sure that we get the government.

I want people to look at the maps so they can start making our people feel safe. Without knowing, everyone's scared.

Yeah, sure. During that thing, we were told that they were going to provide us with a contact list from the EPA and the DEC and those two, and then I believe the health department. And they were going to have contacts there. You know, if we get a call or request or concern, we can call and get answers from them. I followed up a couple hours ago. The guy said, oh, yeah, let me look into that. I'll get it back to you. Even though right in the thing, the head of the EPA said, not Zellner. One of his guys said, we're going to send that out to you guys so you can handle that. So I will stay on top of that and I'll let you guys know. Other than that, they didn't say much other than they offered three letters of relocation

Uh, for people, but they were like, so. And when you're doing that, I mean, can you ask the level? Because. I mean, if you're, if you're not looking at the pavement or eating the rocks, is it okay? I mean, so, so this is a level of danger.

So this is how, you know, so the letter goes out to anyone where there's, there's a suspicion suspicion. Um, if you approve the letters, allowing them to come on, they come out. They first inspect it with a Geiger counter, you know, whatever tools they use. Then they come with a mini axe that can go down eight feet and they'll continue to check it eight feet down. And then if that doesn't resolve the issue, then they got to get additional approvals. And then they have a drill, little core drill to whatever depth they feel they need to. Then it goes to the lab. If there's a determination, which they did last week, that they got the results right away and they said, okay, we need to get these people out of their house. And there's three people. They have to agree to it. But we believe they should relocate until this is cleaned up in Niagara County. They didn't give addresses, but they said, and then this is voluntary and then they work with the people to relocate them temporarily in a hotel and then to permanent housing. Because it's going to take a minimum 3 months to assess what the cleanup is going to be.

But we don't know that grand islands in any of those positions. The other 1 thing I wanted to add real quick. Is. Uh, I want to sell our, but, you know, official budget thing. Everyone knows. I think don't we have till August to consider reopening the contract with the fire company. Are you hoping there's an open clause? I think it is in August.

Yeah, there's a. There's a language in there. I'll put it up as we're talking.

I need to know if this is a mean, I got to make the motion or if it's the next meeting. Because I want to open the contract again, because. We were excessively generous last year and I think. We need to rethink that we're not we're not up against 11th hour like we were last year. I'm anti firefighter, but there's cost savings there. guess we can go to the executive session talk about when we get out yeah i mean i can if it's it's actually fair fair ground for legal advice too just to give you an opinion as to what the time frame is when the contract guys want to make sure that this is the meeting because it's the last meeting in july and i'm using the opportunity to open it up or at least attempt to open it up got it i'm just waiting for it to open on the internet here so i'll make a motion to go to that discussion