Parks and Recreation Commission - Regular Meeting

welcome to the January parks and Rex meeting um somebody like to call it to order I'll make a motion to call to order January 28th uh 6:30 p.m. I'll right Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of Amer to the rep for it stands one nation under God indivisible Justice I'll take roll Kate Smith here Dennis calinski here Sharon parola here John Jones Robert Smith here Jennifer McConnell here Bridget King here Kathleen help me with your last name cop check cop check yeah okay Rob Jones here welcome uh any questions or comments about the agenda okay would somebody like to approve it I'll approve the agenda for January 28th meeting I'll second it uh questions or comments regarding the minutes from December 3rd would somebody like to approve that I will make a motion to approve a second okay presentations state of the parks all right hopefully our uh support downstairs will queue up the presentation um this is really an opportunity for me to revisit our master

plan uh assess needs and report back to you it also seems like good timing with some new uh members here uh next slide tonight I'm going to provide a quick overview we're going to tie back to the master PL can you even see that so sorry it's a little dark it's I can actually see it better over here because okay it's apologize um I'm going to take a look park by Park um at some of the needs the priorities the short and long-term goals we'll look at the budget and end with a few slides that speak to the value of parks in a community and what's next next slide um hopefully this looks familiar this is right out of the master plan book uh the green squares are all the park properties um they're listed there from largest to small and ending with our two facilities let's go to the next slide and before we dive into the uh park by Park look I want to highlight the parks master plan um completing at the end of 2023 as most of you know this is the 5-year plan that provides a vision for the parks and wck Department um it's often a requirement for Grants um before you apply specifically DNR grants require that um it's a strategic guide I think I have a quote in there right out of the book about our strategy um but really it provides a plan for Capital Improvements uh the Investments and really holds all the wishes and wants um next slide as many of you know gosh I really apologize that's so tiny um I'm going to send you the copy if you want to look at it afterward uh like a digital um the process in putting together the plan involves City Administration and staff the park and W commission um citizens so uh you know there were surveys you all most of you were here for that and then of course

the Consultant Group who puts together the uh some of the demographic and data points so this is an action plan that reflects the needs and ideas of those who are using the Garden City Parks and Facilities um we as staff need to be in line with this guide so our decisions our spending should be in line with this document that's the main point okay next Park so we're going to dive in City Park most everybody's pretty familiar with all of the cool things going on in the park you know this is truly the gem of the park system uh a beautiful tree camp canopy the walking path is so busy so much active Recreation uh we saw in the last meeting some of the data on how many visitors are coming to this park over 300,000 um so this is really the busiest Park the majority of our Park staff uh attendants uh who are supporting operations and providing maintenance um and programming let's go to the next slide uh so again a destination for many citizens many neighboring uh communities uh just want to mention the Kerwin classic that Drew over 4,000 people again we saw that last meeting um you know on one day to the park so the part-time Park attendance staff are tasked to manage the Pavilion Rentals uh trash can emptying litter pickup filling doggy bag stations cleaning of the restrooms uh in 2024 there were 164 Pavilion Rentals that generated over $144,000 in Revenue so it is a busy operation um of course we have maint support from DPW so they are cutting the grass and handling the special requests or work orders for repairs of of infrastructure items uh the next slide is going to be that beautiful Park map that I talked about uh that shows all of the trash cans so the blue recycle bin

is just representing the locations of the trash bins um there's 42 of them and you know this makes sense when you see how many people are visiting this park uh but when you see it like this you realize how much work goes into emptying these um this is again um the duty handled by our part-time staff who really do a tremendous job with uh keeping the park clean from uh just the kind of trash that gets Reven gets generated from those kind of numbers uh next slide so with the park this busy um and drawing so many people it you know we have our hands full um from managing just the regular daily activity to large scale events there's a lot going on to keep the park clean uh tidy and cared for vandalism and crime has been an ongoing challenge so some of those examples are uh you know things getting stuffed into the toilets like rags and things that you don't really understand why people are doing that uh but it causes a lot of damage um there was a garbage can that was set on fire you know again I kind of wonder why um driving on grass creating ruts uh graffiti so these are acts of Destruction that take away from other um you know efforts uh or directing resources away from other things um they're bit disheartening you know they just take time and money to address um these type of issues are what resulted in the Bathouse restrooms being closed except for rentals um because just leaving them open was causing a lot of Destruction so um the bathrooms outside of the ice rink are always um open um another area that we manage is uh you know unhoused uh residents or individuals who set up in the park you know this isn't unique to Garden City but uh it is a challenge um you know these are individuals who are

are welcome to use public spaces we just have to find a way um you know to to manage when they're uh interfering with either rental parties or events that are being planned um and and of course address behaviors that are inappropriate so sometimes those things come up as well um the restrooms oh yeah they some of them stay try to stay overnight yeah yeah so our ordinances prohibit sleeping in the Parks but that certainly can happen um the bathrooms the condition of them primarily just the Aesthetics of them um let's see am I still on this page yeah um our staff do a great job at cleaning them um and the next slide we'll talk about that in a moment um but before I get to that another thing I want to mention is just aging infrastructure so bathrooms roads pavilion picnic tables um even trees all of these items over time um get older and they do need to be reinvested in um our strategies kind of listed on the right there you know we're going to do what we can with what we have to upkeep and maintain um uh providing you know the basic maintenance cleaning the bathrooms collecting that litter and trash uh you know Mike hires great staff who care um and they do what they can to show that the park is cared for and being supervised uh volunteer workdays we'll talk more about those but we have you know GCA that's very active in that Park um and um another strategy is adding some police presence so just having police come through helps us out because it shows again okay this park is being cared for it's being monitored um and then lastly you know it's it's my job as staff it's kind of all of our responsibility to be advocating for these amenities and these um parks in our community okay next slide this you're probably not going to be able to

read either but these are actual comments and complaints that we've gotten on the pool house bathrooms and this is the number one um complaint at city park uh these were emailed to us but you know there's been people at Council uh sharing uh kind of what we all feel um the bathrooms are dated their drab they're in need of updates um the next slide has you know what it looked like last year uh since the summer the awning has been taken down um and DPW was out to clean up some of the landscape and one of our plans is to paint the bathrooms on the inside and also to maybe do a mural on the inside there just to show um again some care it's not going to fix the design and the um you know some of the structural like unattractiveness of it but anything we can do to show that it's being cared is going to help um and so next slide okay so this is right out of our master plan the the content the recommended repairs so um you know we see restrooms and ball field lights as the two major needs so restrooms we just talked about I think everybody's on board we would love to see funding come through to be able to do something with that um the Ballfield lights again just uh over time not of all of them are working um you know these are Big costly Investments um other identified wants um or opportunities as we call them in the master plan include developing a multi-use field uh you know tree plantings really I'd like to see an inventory um some pruning but a replanting plan to keep uh new trees coming up um a digital sign so those are again those identified in our master plan um they're in line with what we're

hearing from the community um and the F if you go to the next slide um you know our shortterm goals are to host a volunteer workday where we can do some painting um we will continue to keep the bathrooms closed except during rentals and special events uh with the main rink open um and another area that we just completed was updating the special event policies so clarifying uh uh the the policies and expectations to help us minimize the potential issues um and that has been done and that's up on our website just helping us uh communicate the expectations um I don't know if anybody wants if I to pause and talk about city park at all this is our biggest park um our most visited I don't know if anyone has any additional thoughts or I can keep going you know I have to ask the digitizing the signs we like the are you talking about for the ball fields or yeah no I believe that is the front entrance sign no uh oh the digital sign wish at city park yeah for the two entrances yeah for the entrances I think to uh promote either events coming or communicate happening Thursday or you know this one yeah you put two or just the yeah I mean I think that's the the want yeah that was on the want list they air expensive so yeah yeah so um anything else okay well let's go to mhler park that is our second biggest park um this one is the big focus on our ball fields right um it also supports football there's a multi-purpose Court activity you know GCA is really uh supported on the care and you know Pro programming essentially uh the next

slide is just some photos uh again gcas had invested in updates to the concession stand um and uh you know the fields as best they can um the next slide is going to come back to those recommended repairs as outlined in the master plan as echoed in the Outreach we did last summer um the ball field updates and Court fencing um there's a photo there you know there's a lot of fencing that's just pulling away I mean it's both a hazard um and it just I don't know when those fences went in but it's been a long time um we know that the playground needs maintenance to bring the surfacing level up this playground was installed in 2001 um typically a playground has a 30-year lifespan so you know again planning for uh how can we replace that uh in a few years or in the future um a lot of you know we this project this park was submitted for a grant it's moved all the way through uh for 500,000 but it's been sitting in the uh executive office waiting for sign off and you know just today uh all the federal funding has been frozen so I'm not sure what impact this will have on this grant program so I'm just kind of keeping my fingers crossed uh no doubt it will cause delays um and then the next slide is outlining the goals which which one of them was really planning on getting this grant because this is the same grant that uh we have at Radcliffe right now the HUD Grant so we know we'd have to do an environmental revieww um uh and then if we were to get that Grant I would immediately put in for a DNR Grant uh to leverage that funding so we could make it go even further um so hoping you know I'm a little a little bummer today uh to hear that I was a little worried that might

happen but uh we we'll just we'll we'll keep going um the next Park uh next slide is Rotary Park so uh soccer Pavilion restrooms playground walking Track another pretty popular uh Park uh next Slide the master plan um did outline updating the Pavilion which was done in 2023 so there's just some miscellaneous touchup and painting um that we're hoping to do um staying up on the playground maintenance um and taking care of the soccer field are the uh recommended repairs um sorry um and again here vandalism is another uh challenge we're dealing with if we go to the next slide we'll see some pictures from just uh earlier in the winter um you know we've also had vandalism in the bathrooms I think we talked talked about something here recently in the fall just the kids are getting into you know just destructive things and uh it's really heartbreaking because this is a field that uh you know when you're trying to play soccer uh these kind of divots really uh you know to get on that field I know we put yeah there's a lot of Boulders but there's areas where they got around and got in there so uh you know Mike worked with DPW they've gone out and tried to repair it um um but these are challenges at this park uh the next slide just outlines our goals um which uh you know we're looking to to work with Rotary Club um and to continue with some uh Community volunteer work days uh this was one obviously we had in the fall that was really successful uh we are going to keep the bathrooms locked unless programs rentals or supervision is available so again this is this is

why they end up locked is because we have so many issues and it just you know it ruins it for people CU we do get questions can you leave them open and we would love to but the uh it's just I don't I mean in the bathrooms there they like spitball things on the ceiling and you're just like why you know why are you doing this this is your you know your Park but that's kids sometimes so um you know our other goal is to work with our soccer association identify the field needs the maintenance objectives that they have what can we do to support uh just the field um you know and on this park I would love to engage with some neighbors and try to find some extra eyes that can just keep an eye on things and let us know uh if you know something's going on after school because we know there's a bus stop there um so those are different strategies um that we'd like to see uh in 2025 so uh let's go to our next Park uh kuas um I think everybody knows this court for the or this park for the handball court Sports um but again there's a playground um it's our only park with basketball hoops um next slide what what we saw um in the master plan and what we heard when we were out in the community uh is that there's a desire to see some investment here um the infrastructure is aging uh it does look tired um I yeah this is the parking lot that's really uh in bad shape um and there's a lot of community interest here there's uh interest in kuas in working with us um you know of course there's just a question of funding um the next slide is just outlining what uh our goals again let's partner with kuas and explore opportunities to partner on either fundraising or what improvements uh can be made uh and and getting out there this summer to work on the playground um

this is our oldest playground in the park system as well have you talked with the Kanas group yes I did meet with them over Winter and they are uh once they're through the pig race they want to do a walkthrough in the park they came a few years ago and yes and they did some research on playgrounds and got a beautiful design and I believe it was over it was like 500,000 and so you know we can partner with them what they cannot do as a partner group is is uh really seek grants because they don't own the property and the city is not going to give up Park property but we can partner right because as land owners um that's that's what makes those Partnerships great is you know if we can get a nonprofit group if we get another Grant you know things could happen but yeah uh that's definitely something that we can keep pursuing um this year and let's go to our next Park um Manor Park next slide oh um this has got the two soccer fields and a playground um the next slide um you know again the master plan noted the need for field maintenance um we know the playground needs additional wood chips to be compliant some of the want items include restrooms drinking fountains uh and Ada access um the goals for the summer on the next slide um again looking to plan a volunteer workday meet with Soccer Association again the big Park uh user in that sense to review maintenance needs and priorities uh from them and we're going to move to Florence Park uh we had a lovely work day there last fall um of course we've got a playground a

large open field space some other uh amenities as well um the master plan was again repeating the same things we heard at the um Outreach events um according to the playground resp inspection report this was the uh worst condition there is some metal um the uh what is that called um like the base bases that are eroding um and rusting out uh we don't quite know how to fix them but um you know this is heavily used by uh the school next door and so we'd like to partner with them on uh the park work days and um you know having having their help um the next slide is again just going to outline oops sorry okay so that's just repeating the um master plan so the goals are uh to come back in the spring this is the one where we needed to add more wood chips um and workday with tipin uh look into the light pole so if you remember in this park there's a light pool out in the um grassy area because I believe that originally was a uh Court of some sort I'm not sure what type um so we have had requests to remove it um I'm kind of curious if it actually works um you know or if there would be interest in in keeping it if there was like pickle balls you know courts being and you know so before we take it down I think we should evaluate exactly uh potential there um but those are some of the things to look into the summer um we're going to go to our Cola Park um this park is like about 3/4 of an acre so it's pretty small um this playground is also um noted well this is the second worst from the inspections that we had done um the installation

date is unknown and really the biggest concern here is the flooding um you know I think the playground in particular seems to be located in a like the lowest point on the park so um that's going to be a big challenge uh you want to go ahead I think our goals are just uh to host a work day uh to get the playground looking better and really evaluate um you know it where a new playground would go uh because I think it's not designed for that uh land um and then our very last Park everybody know what our smallest park is yeah Helen Park um uh so this is less than half an acre and there was some nice improvements made in 2022 um some of the on the next slide some of the recommended repairs are weeding and maintaining the playground so there's not the way the uh sidewalks are around it there's not a ton of room to add wood chips but it's it's low um for what it needs to be for the surfacing requirements um so we're going to have to figure out how we add more wood chips without them spilling all over into the the sidewalks um um I think the other amenity that would be nice to add is a picnic table I think I learned that that was originally in the plans to install a permanent picnic table on one of the um there was like a area for it so that would be nice um you know additional wants were benches and trees um and our goal is to have a workday this summer okay moving on so let's talk about uh the ice rink um so the ice rink constructed in 1972 for um many you know over the years there's been a lot of upgrades uh and really for most of its life has been the heart of the parks and recck Department right most of the uh staff uh were

centered there um and currently we've got a hefty list of capital requests uh so let's look at that um the next slide diving into the master plan um you'll see flooring a PA system locker rooms and bleachers um you know we also are noting that we're coming to the end of the the lifespan on the roof um that went in in I think it's 27 years ago um and we're noticing some uh just signs of it um getting to the end of its life so these are all really big ticket items um let's take a look at some of these uh you know Mike's been looking into well what are these things cost so this is just uh basically an estimate for flooring and this is that rubber IED uh you know material that is so that people on their skates can walk from the locker room to the ice so there's a chunk of it that's around the arena in the lobby and then there's in the locker rooms and together um it's about $165,000 So currently the staff is piecing together pieces to cover uh gaps or move things around you know you can see part of it's uh eroded so uh you know Mike has said about four times a year they're going to go through they cut it out and try to place it uh to protect it um it looks like there was some replace back in 2009 but it's really hard to see when the last investment was for the entire uh flooring so a big ticket item but uh when you've got an ice rink that's uh pretty important uh the other item uh that we've got some information on is the PA sound system so um I couldn't find installation history in the master guy in the master plan plan but uh Mike did let me know that the uh Figure

Skating club had donated money towards it at one point um there are speakers in the bleachers and on the ice So currently three of the speakers in the bleachers do not work one of them uh was burnt out and removed um the amp went out five or six years ago that was replaced uh but the speakers that are over the ice are rather muffled and so sometimes you can't hear clearly and so that's where this need comes from uh for whether it's the figure skating announcements or even hockey um and that cost uh up there is I think around 40,000 um and that's just showing you all the little pieces of it uh so you know these are um expensive items um and then additional wants on the next screen um locker room additions so there are currently five and I know I'm like well five that seems like a good amount of locker rooms so um what I've learned is when the when the rink was built there was four two large and two small the two large ones are good the two small fit about 10 people and so they don't actually hold a full team they're currently used for um either like a woman's changing area um and they just uh you know don't don't cut the need uh is outlined in in the safe sport guidelines um a few years ago in 2018 there was a um a locker room added um so now we have three big ones which is good uh but ideally we would want we would want five but four would allow you to have tournaments so a team comes in they're using it well then the other team has to prep to play after so it's really an operational uh you know feature to have

those locker rooms and there's uh you know separating the teams and different reasons so that's why that's a request um for uh adding a couple locker rooms uh board Replacements so those are the uh things around like the glass but it's not glass or I don't know what it's a special um a bleacher upgrades so the bleachers we have are made out of wood with plastic covering uh the wood is cracking um you know there's been repairs to screw in like support to you know maintain it and get it to last longer some of the plastic when it bubbles up is cut out removed and the wood's repainted but that's just kind of now you're getting under the plastic so again those are just uh the capital uh request over at the rink um and I think that's it what else oh the goals are um to continue to operate a clean clean well-managed facility right we just like anybody you got to do the best with what you have and that's what our staff is going to continue to do um you know Mike is really great at looking for sponsorship uh you know advertising uh selling ice as many groups um you know and it's important to stay on the preventative maintenance too because some of this mechanical systems these are Big systems over there um and we just need to stay up on the industry what the lifespans you know what are the uh the mus haves for us to stay um you know operational so that is the ice rink um the next slide is of course our newest little building the uh Radcliff Center and I'm really not going to talk about this there's a whole um the next slide probably fell asleep sorry um you know still under renovations

[Music] um well imagine a picture with all sorts of things at Radcliffe happening um there's a lot of conversations happening now about the operating cost um I think uh the workshop in February is going to really start addressing uh some of the concerns as we get into budget season um you know how do we maintain and operate uh this on top of everything we just looked at that has a lot of needs so so um we'll see that in uh February have its own Workshop oh there it is okay thank you um and so the next slide uh is our budget overview so as just a reminder you know the city expenditure budget is you know just over 54 million uh about 29 million is in the general fund and within the general fund Parks and Recreation is just one Department that's competing with fire police DPW to name a few um as we've been looking at the budget the last uh few months you all know now there's three Department budgets we've got the parks so that's the maintenance and the stuff in the in in the Parks Radcliffe is its own uh department for budgetary stuff and then the ice rink is its own and you can see the three expenditure costs that add up to about 2.2 million so the nice thing in in our world is we do generate Revenue uh so that's through rentals uh registrations fees and that's just over 800,000 so right now if you take all of the park stuff together uh the net cost is 1.3 so this is going to be a number um that we're going to be feeling the pressure on how do we reduce that right um last year the city budget was a

negative -2 and a half million and that cannot continue so there is going to be uh a lot to talk about um so just to give that overview um the next slide um I think this is just a couple of notes on maintenance um you know within the parks budget that I just showed you there's not actually a line item for maintenance so some of the maintenance comes from DPW that's within their larger budget but we don't really have in our budget money for the wood chips and the playground or um so we're just very thin right so you see all the money and the cost but we don't have a lot to work with when it comes to maintenance and upkeep and just over time um it gets hard to to find that money in that general fund um that's why the volunteer work days they're really impactful you know volunteers can do a lot of the things that we don't have staff or other people do so uh we're going to continue to try to build that to provide that supplemental support um and then um oh the tree donation program that's something I hope to bring to you all in the coming years to talk about that and just sort of update it so it's more uh friendly so people can donate trees um and we can you know add those things into the park so I just wanted to mention those three or four things sorry yeah three things okay um next slide just before I wrap up um I want to highlight you know a few of the ways that Parks do make our community better um you know obviously uh I think that this is a essential service um and let's look at the the value of community engagement next slide you know Parks provides the background for many many Gatherings um the sense of community here in Garden City is really special and Parks play a

key role in providing the spaces to host um these type of events and Community Gatherings um the next slide you know the health benefits associated with Parks so whether it's physical mental social you know whether it's organized Sports you know all the youth sports we have going on uh just playgrounds you know free open-ended play for kids um being outside walking you know our brains and our bodies are wired uh you know to be in nature and to have this sort of play um and engagement with nature so it's really uh to me this is what makes Parks essential to a community uh is just that value um the third item um the economic impact um so this just highlighting you know there's a lot of studies out there that that show um the closer you live to a park um you know the higher uh your home value is granted it's got to be a well cared for Park um but it is a desirable place um for homes and uh it raises your home value um it also um let's see we know that large special events like the Kerwin classic things that are bringing in thousands of people uh they're coming into the community they're stopping for lunch before after you know there's just economic impact from those visits um and then on the um on the right is just some information from the national park Association that's highlighting Michigan they do a lot of studies and you know to get these numbers um but even uh the next slide we're going to talk about job recation because just here in the Parks and recck department on the next slide um we have around 50 employees and some some only work three hours a week maybe it's a dance instructor and some of us are full-time so there's about 50 people 29

of who whom are Garden City residents um so you know this is a real uh economic value just the jobs that are created and experiences and we get a lot of young folks but we also have you know employees of all ages so uh uh that's the economic impact and lastly but not least um the environmental benefits so Parks you know really offer green infrastructure um and you know unlike developed construction Parkland is providing those natural systems that help us recover better from storms right that storm water uh management and runoff uh trees you know they do clean the air um a lot of value uh even Wildlife you know not necessarily like big animals but just the biodiversity like it's important and you know we're in a more densely uh urbanized area and um you know these things do matter we know people want to live in areas where nature is accessible right so uh so these are some of the reasons I just wanted to end with uh why parks are so important and obviously you're all on the park commission so um I hope I think you're all on Bo um the last slide is really what's next um we all know the uh funding is a challenge uh the bond was so close to passing uh we're certainly looking at that in the year 2026 um and the only other thing I wanted to mention is that uh there was other input that we heard from the community about other wishes or wants like a splash pad or dog park and so those are things that we're going to need to continue to explore or just uh strategize about um but I'm going to wrap it up and uh see if you have questions or want to just follow up or provide any input of anything that I missed that you heard last summer from engagement or anything

else everybody's speechless the only thing I would talk to a few people that go to the park and they were concerned about people staying at the park all night some of my neighbors that was one thing that a young lady said she didn't feel real comfortable yeah because she see the same individual day after day and I told them that I didn't think anyone stayed there yep they're not supposed to right you know so you can call and report that um you know there are ordinances in place to prevent sleeping in the park and you know but it's it's a hard thing to Monitor and you know but and hard times fall on people too you know hard times fall on people to but you you have to prepare for it and also like the restrooms you know the restrooms are nice and they maybe if you update them and they will get an idea they look nice so maybe we will keep them that way but a lot of that goes back and I'll say this goes back to Parenting if you don't tell a child what's right and wrong they'll do whatever they want to do and I see a lot of that yeah well there's not much we can do with that but but you are right a lot of the psychology behind vandalism is if a place looks uncared for it's more apt to get graffiti and so that's absolutely true but SC so I think this information is very helpful um I know it's a it's sad that there's not a budget for all these upgrades you know but I appreciate you going after grants and and putting all of this together at least so we can be informed about you know where we want our parks to to go okay anything else questions or comments thanks yeah it's pretty

overwhelming about all this stuff that you know this may sound off the- wall but the illich has started their Little Caesar's Empire here in Garden City I just wondered it what would it be impossible to somehow reach out to I'm sure they must have some sort of charitable Foundation see I think that's an amazing idea I did try through their General uh sort of inquiry and I tried that approach like it's the birthplace of Little Caesars you know right you know I Always Feel Like Anything is Possible just some things are a thousand times harder and more difficult and you have to have just grit and whatnot but I mean I think those are all like anything is possible you know I think it's important that we spend the time to reflect on where we are and all the work that was done you know this is really just a review but it's it echoed everything I heard last summer and you know I think we have to at least have a vision of where we want to go and sometimes you know it'll think the world will just conspire um not always but you know I I I think we should continue to try to find big donors and sponsors cuz it's not just Little Caesars there's kresy you know the first Kmart that was a full Kmart here and there's one of oh the first McDonald's that was a seed in or something you know but so you never know and if you ever have connections you know just put it out there because you never know if I did I would say that brand new though it look good with yeah see exactly gladly take isn't that right yeah they could put a giant pizza on there we would totally be you know cool with that Junior

yeah all right any other questions or comments regarding the presentation and any do we want to go to the public I don't know if there's any public input comments no okay um so there's not a public hearing we can just skip over that right yeah okay um public comment agenda items only I'll Rush up here now okay moving on items for consideration old business none so we'll move on to new business okay me again um in your packet you did get the quarterly budget review um and let's see on that um okay key items to share on my end um one it is so great that we have a finance director so if you remember we did not have one until end of November um so deian is our finance director Treasurer and she's been able to correct some of the issues that we had in the last quarter if you remember like uh salaries were coming out of part-time uh line items it was just a mess and we couldn't really see it so that has all been cleaned up um the good news is our budget is performing well with the budget that we're working with so um if you haven't looked through it you know basically uh we're at the 50% point so you're looking at through December 31st um and our revenues are where they should be by and large um the exceptions are noted in the report so sometimes we know Revenue comes later in the year because like softball for example is coming soon um so nothing that's alarming at all the revenue looks really good at both the ice rink and at Radcliffe um actually outperforming projections a little bit at Radcliffe which is great um of course as as I

mentioned moving into budget season what's going to be looked at is uh what budget we get to start with um and so I think um that's going to be the big question moving forward but for today's purposes um I'm not going to go through everything I don't know if anyone had questions uh or would want to talk about any of it but I did um obviously share the report with you um yeah I'm not an account by trade okay so um would it be possible to possibly get the financial person in to maybe do a little presentation so so we know how what we're looking at here yeah as what we started and and you missed this is I was going we were going through each section um so I might maybe what I could do is get you some back details cuz I provided a guide for I think it was the park system that we went through line item by line item okay uh Revenue side and then expenditure side to try to make it more clear but to your question um I think that's totally possible right now she is like eyeball deep in audit and you know only a few months in so I probably wouldn't ask her now but that's totally a fair uh question it takes some time and that's why we were kind of taking this year to go through it uh more closely I think today I didn't want to burden everybody with you know all my presentations um but you know when you look at it the way the budget is um it's in broken up into the revenues I know by those departments um and we did spend some time going through it as a commission before you came on so I'll I'll send send you some of those notes I think it might be helpful okay um I think does it start to look more

familiar to the rest of you yes yeah because we did some of those exercises um yeah because what always stands out to me is the ones in parentheses is always a a you know a shortfall or right and and then there's different columns that are saying different things and so um yeah and I'd be happy to meet with you too and and just spend time going over it because for me this is an important year of learning our budget you know the prior year and we talked about this earlier there was a lot of different numbering system so it makes it hard to really compare last year like where were we last year at this time it's very difficult to see that now next year we'll have this year right um but there was a lot of changes that happened that had nothing to do with me or uh anyone else but um well I had something to do with someone else but I think it was State mandated or something um so I don't [Applause] know okay any other questions or comments regarding the budget no okay moving on to proposed policy okay so I put in a cover letter for you uh to try to explain a couple of the policies so on the security cameras um as we're planning to open up the front desk um you will eventually see live camera footage in the monitors and you know I thought it was important once people are going to be able to see that to understand well how are we using them who's watching them what are the parameters for our security system we have I think 72 cameras and 100 angles and so this uh proposed policy um is really uh to provide understanding to staff and to the public and and you all cuz I know someone already asked me

about it um you know to understand who's watching for what purpose and why are we using it otherwise it gets invasive and it feels creepy right so I wanted something so I worked with some of our uh staff uh across the city um and what you have in your packet is a proposed uh I mean it's pretty basic but it at least provides the guidelines of who has access um and what we're doing with it and even for us as staff when we want to go back and look at something um to have a process and a protocol um so that we're not just you know so I don't did anyone have any questions or want to know more about the cameras or uh any thoughts don't have get it's great vandalism looks good sounds good yeah yeah could they be be used to catch some of the vandalism yeah well these will be so these are specifically in Radcliffe or at the rink but yeah that's exactly the situation so if we're trying to enforce policy or manage vandalism or what is crime right uh then it can be used it's just sort of stipulating how do we go about it and we record it so that people know what we're looking back on you know I don't want it to become I mean it is happening at Radcliffe um you know trying to go back what kid did this and you know and like how much time do we want to spend on it and what are we you know what at what point um you know so we're still trying to develop that but this is the initial uh policy that's more overarching but yeah and and we know that once the the footage is out and everybody sees it we think that will be helpful because now you really see like oh yeah I see I'm

going to be watched when I go down here you know soit people see yeah yeah at the front desk there'll be two big monitors that are behind the desk but they're meant to show the public you know that the staff can see all the places that we can't see from the desk yeah you know you know we got that Middle School right next door to us and there those those kids when do you think the uh the desk will be complet it looks it's I mean it's yeah we're W yeah we're waiting for countertops um I think that's the Big Thing Once the countertops are in all the it stuff's been wired so we just got to physically move things and I think some monitors have been ordered and that stuff but so hopefully soon we're ready for that but that's it I don't it's not so much an action item I don't know I'm never quite sure what is required action here but you guys could support it actually the policy I think it's a good idea they have cameras I mean you know like yes deters I feel like and and lets you watch all the areas that they are not there yeah I think you you've set up a great policy on who has access to because there's something mentioned about the police can go back and whatever they that's awesome I always say it tells the third person story right I mean there isation trth right yeah yeah we have a lot of cameras so okay so maybe a motion just to approve the proposed call it the parks recreation yeah the parks recreation security camea policy okay I make a motion that we approve a Parks and

Recreation security camera policy as presented to the commission now I take a vote right yeah yeah all in favor all in favor I motion passes oh we forgot to ask the public though public comment okay okay then the LA last item here um speaking of the Middle School uh we are dealing with some challenging uh stuff so there is the Middle School um next door and it is important that we're welcoming and that we allow people to come in like that's really important um however we're having some trouble with the unsupervised kids so they've had a series of half a days and when they come in in half a days space pors isn't open yet um they're kind of running through the Halls going in and out of rooms they're interfering with head star breaking things I found them sitting in a dark room yeah so we're just trying to figure out how to manage this so we've instituted a three strike policy that um they get a warning second thing and a third thing and then they can you know they are Li they like banned for six weeks or something um and you can do it because they have to have the well we don't really have any policies we're just but the because even the membership policy if you tell them they can't come in for a couple if they try to come in you can well by that time the parents been called and like they know so I mean our staff is spending a lot of time meeting with parents and you know it's just becoming more challenging so that along with sometimes you know we are a warming Center as well um and then we were just having individuals staying and sleeping in the card room or not the

card room the game room and again trying to figure out what is our role um you know of course you're welcome here uh but where do we draw the line like your shoes are off you're sleeping on the couch like now it's kind of getting away from the use of that room so developing a policy that address addresses loitering you know like so what I did is look at like how are other community centers managing some of these things and we have many ordinances already in place um I included some of those in that memo just to show you like those are actual ordinances um that help us develop policies um that we can enforce when we need to um so we're not trying to become a place where nobody's welcome and you have to do this or that but we are trying to figure out how to manage some of these more challenging the rooms are always open during the day yes they're open because there's all these HVAC issues where the temperature the doors need to be open so you know we're trying to like okay if they have half day let's go around and close all the doors but you know we just got the schedule now because we were taken by surprise two days in a row um so what's in your packet and really if you have the schedule then you could open te Tech maybe right we could open earlier you know and but some other challenges are not all of them are going in there because they like hanging out elsewhere um you know and I I like the kids I go out and I talk to them and I tell them like hey you know as long as you're sitting quietly we don't have a problem when you're swearing pushing uh damaging things you know there's been a broken a door jam uh you know just miscellaneous things where we're like okay you know we um just trying to figure that all out it'd be great if we had programming for after school that we could say hey we got dodgeball in the gym and so we're looking at that as well could we do

activity to engage them because you know we know if they're not here where are they going to go they're going to be bored somewhere else and so you know we're trying to figure out how to uh support positive activities for them I've talked to some of them when I'm there and they just they get out of school and they just it's easy to walk over there and spend an hour or an hour and a half yeah yeah and most of them are fine there's just a handful that you know get very confrontational and you know can be disrespectful so we're like okay well that we can't do but you know we're in this business of now we're managing uh Middle School behaviors trying to figure out how to do it so what's in your pack is proposed things and this is really more open for discussion um you know I'm just open to your input as far as how you think you know we should be uh for the community so this is just the Radcliff rack general policies you know one of the requirements that I've always heard but we didn't really have it anywhere was you know you have to have availed membership so that means we have contact information emergency you know if it's a minor we have a parent we can call so we do require that and if they get their membership the parent has to be with them when they yeah when they do it the first time the parent has to come in um you know we're trying to figure out again if the children or teens um you know if they're wandering around on Sha ground um you know horse play those are the things we want to address or at least have a way to address if it starts getting uh challenging for us to any

thoughts would you also like a motion yeah I don't I mean I just was more as just curious you know you all are representing the community and you know a lot of you are moms and so just kind of want to hear your perspectives as as far as what um you'd like to see us do or how to manage or what seems reasonable I think you need some ground rules uh on there a lot and there are a lot of nice respectful kids there but I have heard a couple um like they were calling like a female staff member like yes sir and just you know just be being just like you said confrontational and they thought it was funny but and then like going in rooms that are unlocked but they'll turn off the lights and then close the door yeah so you know you don't know they're in there now they can go into any room they want like the the game room where there's the pool table and yeah I mean you're supposed to be 16 I know there's a sign there that said so you know some of them you don't always know like after a while you know like okay these are middle schoolers they're not a 16 um you know again if if they could not cause issues we're okay with it but it's just they're a squirly age they're you know middle schoolers are more challenging than high schoolers but all right so you think some ground rules um would help I mean obviously we yeah this is not you know this is not excessive this is just a couple of things should be easy for yeah for most people to follow yeah okay how about limiting their access to the entire building I mean it might help you keep more better tabs on you know where they're at and what they're doing big building yeah like locking

doors yeah yeah yeah because we think we know where they're going and then like who's running over here you know yeah okay and also agree with by your office because there's a they do yeah they do yeah so I don't mind I mean sometimes a few can play the piano and then there's a few that are just like oh jeez you know one girl was learning you know so she like pulled out her phone and she had an app and she was pretty good yeah I mean I don't even mind that area because I'm close enough I can hear them you know but but yesterday I wasn't there they damaged the door we fixed it but you know again now it's time and staff writing a report and we're you know it's like oh my gosh so but now we've got the half days written out I think we'll try to open up Spaceport earlier and then I think we are going to reduce just the uh the tolerance we've had for horse play and un uh non-specific hanging out yep inform them that there's consequences whether they're Bann or you know you can talk with the parents yep yep and there's definitely a lot of that happening uh our building manager is calling but I mean sometimes she has a stack of them and it's like okay we got to do something you know we kind of been just sort of seeing if we could you know we instilled this three strike thing and some kids got uh booted U we thought well maybe that will work you know now I'm like well once we get the cameras up and they see it maybe but I think we really just need some policies that we can fall back on and just be like out today no no you know cuz it's interrupting other classes things going on yeah I mean Head Start start came down to us and said

they're running around the you know their end so like okay and it's not like they don't know because there signs right up there right right and we know that you can't just go back to the middle school after school and hang out I mean there's a reason they make everybody but but there's such a great opportunity there you know to do positive with these kids walk and their back in the warm yeah yeah the programming idea is you know geared towards the age group at that time right when they're out might be because then we could say Hey you can come in and do dodgeball or this or that but you know not running around the halls you know so I think we'll try that so would somebody like to make a motion to support that policy I make a mo motion to support whatever policy we were just discussing whatever you want to name it General RX under policy maybe Rec Center general policies I'll second all in favor I I passes okay um other business I um instead of waiting to commissioner comments I just wanted to uh so I've missed the last two meetings I apologize um I heard you guys talking about when I watched the meetings um the scanning cards so when everyone has a card when they walk into red clip they scan at the front desk which is super helpful like you were saying to let us know who is in the building uh but there I believe are some discrepancies within the scanning of cards there are just so many groups that don't scan so is like a dance mom I'm there and I'm like scanning mine and then I'm scanning all my kids and then all these groups are just coming walking right past me so I'm like how come none of these people are scanning you know as

I'm scanning every single time so like FRC doesn't scan none of the rental groups the Head Start T laab none of the Esports teams do they scan NOP food pantry does not scan we not sure about the veter there are just so many veterans don't so it's I the idea is I like the idea you know why the why but there's just so many holes in it so if uh just I don't know what the answer is I I appreciate that I think you just summarized that very well that's exactly the challenge like it sounds great but there's the data is so unhelpful maybe even like just the front desk asking hi what are you here for today but then like scanning for teen for Spaceport you know I think okay you want to know who's in there or like the gym right if they have a membership they need to have something that that allows them in there so well I think we are leaning towards uh clarifying what are the memberships so the fitness Spaceport maybe we'll have one for game room right like you're a member you go in and you use that but if you've already registered for a class I'm not sure that scanning because it's not 100% and we already know rosters we have a list of how many people are in there right so I I think you're going to see us probably move away from that because it is and we have so many backups at the front and just kind of simp customer service things we've got to work through and in the classes you have people that aren't Garden City residents so they wouldn't have a right hard to scan but we've given out a lot of them like sometimes they'll make you know they'll get you and say like oh we need to give you a card yeah because when it was coming out that was the intent was we'll know everyone who's in this building right and that is just not like possible for a lot of reasons

okay and then also um I heard you um at the council meeting talk about opening the fitness room oh yeah to to all adults which I love I think that our community should be able to mingle together you know I want I want the seniors to be able to to be with adults I even think space for our adults well you know my My Generation with your generation we should be able to work out together and and spend time together and I even think um Spaceport should be open to adults and I thought maybe if more adults were in the building hanging out maybe in Spaceport it would help to keep those kids in line you know you'd have more eyes watching mhm um I even thought about maybe you should charge for Spaceport like like a $5 a month or something you know something so low um and then visit or something I was just wondering about the movie theater have you guys done anything about finding out how to go about showing films yeah so we are working with the library now because they have a licensing and they do movie program so we're looking into programming with them as a way to offer that um because it is a cost I mean there are so many costs right now from Spaceport and I mean everything you just said um we did open up the fitness room we have opened up Spaceport to everybody now um I think you'll see some more information like posted on it because right now it's not totally clear but that is what's happening um and we are looking at charging for space board especially non-residents they should be paying um more so if we charge residents something there should be a higher fee for them so I think you're going to see some of

those things um subscriptions and everything for those video games are can be pricey yes I yes they're the it cost for just the building um we just got that information this week and it's $50,000 just in it and the Killer is that that doesn't include Spaceport and Esports because I didn't even want to take that on so uh we are emptying out the lab because we're paying on each device you know so we're trying to uh correct you know what now we know is just not a good use of of taxpayer money the computer lab I I think that you could probably get away with five to 10 computers you know I I've never seen more I saw a class once and there was five older women in there but I've never seen any more than that you know one gentleman maybe uses it while I'm there I see but it's always empty and it's a very large room yeah it yep yep so that is that is moving up to the art room to uh for a smaller version of that oh okay and then um I just was wondering about the progress on Imagination Station and the kitchen I know Council approved spending so I was wondering I I saw people working and yeah I mean Imagination Station I think is coming along pretty well like uh all the Cabinetry is in there's counter CPS again waiting on that um the workshop next week I think is going to really be important because I think we're at the point where council is going to really need to direct uh where they want to spend this money and think about operating costs so there's some big conversations happening about that in the teaching kitchen um you know similarly so I don't have anything new

on that other than I'm working with you know uh trying to get some drawings um um from a architect you know to have some stuff to share so when I come to the workshop I'm going to be presenting some different options and letting uh you know answering questions and and it's going to be for Council to um provide Direction and what time is that um that it is on it's 6:30 okay on February 5th that's at Radcliff it will be at Radcliffe correct one other question about your it costs yeah does that include any of the data that's stored for the video or for the security stuff we just discussed oh gosh um no I know that we paid up front for all the security stuff so there are a couple of server fees those are fairly nominal okay um but you know the the operating cost are you know it's a 88,000 square F foot building and and there is so much you know just the I mean utilities and just the Baseline to operate out of there is is an expense and so we're still really uncovering that and um you know these are going to be the conversations that are going to have to happen at Council how do we sustain this Beast you know so okay and then just my last little thing was um if you guys are not signed up for the M Parks emails I would recommend that they email me and there's tons of information about Michigan and all the park systems and grants and everything so I think she has

to add them because we' been added since for for a while now but I think the new people you guys are not involved with M Parks right yeah I I don't think you guys are but I was at the fall I think were you already activated cuz I did reactivate some of them because it didn't look like it but you were all listed so I knew that you were in there mind yeah like us we probably are all on there but these guys are not so but it is extremely you bridg do you get them no okay so I will I can do that cuz I know exactly where that's at yeah and it is worthwhile it's it's free so we have a membership with Garden City Parks and rock and all our commissioners are free to add so and then and you're on there yeah you're you don't get them I I don't you've never seen one okay I'll look into that one come from like M parks and it'll show you and then you can what is it so that's the Michigan Parks and Recreation Association so it's the Statewide um Association that is promoting local parks and wck initiatives so it's that's what it is it's what did you say like a newsletter about yeah so that's the newsletter but they'll have legislative updates um the grants that are coming through and for us as professionals there's networking workshops um you know there's a conference every year so we go and network with other communities and learn like oh what are you all doing and here's what this and then they listed all the grants that we given out this year yeah yeah unfortunately I didn't see our name yeah well one of my updates is that we did finally close out the uh DNR Land and Water Conservation Grant which had just a loose ends that we did not wrap

up until January but now we're clear to apply for more so that's the good news the Wayne County millage money I believe they call it um is that there was an update in your email about that and that's you said you ordered um yep that's been order yep the playground equipment coming this spring yep so we'll see when I haven't heard that it's come in yet and it'll just depend on installation availability but it's been ordered roof will be finished in the spring no well they're there today they I mean huh the trim that's what I the trim yeah the trim is what they're finishing I mean they give different things all the time but they're there this week trying to finish up the the gymnasium piece they've got some special thing they have to do but if the weather cooperates if we don't get the real extreme cold or wetness it should be the next 10 days or so 10 working days so close very close does anybody have anything else for other business okay uh moving on public comment non agenda items I'm cheating I'm cheating a little bit because uh the general wreck Center policy I know it's on your agenda but yeah anyways um I don't know if it would help or not but I know you know when the middle schoolers start school and the high schoolers they signed paperwork saying they're they'll abide by a bunch of rules and Stu like that and the parents got to sign it I know you would it's a record keeping on your end to keep it somewhere but Middle School are definitely old enough to sign like a behavior contract exactly so they

understand that yeah um they're signing something yeah that's um other than that I just going to mention uh soccer club uh registrations are open to March 1st I'm no longer associated with the soccer directly but uh I do know the registration dates so they run to March 1st uh their season will start April I know a lot of people with the weather you don't think about soccer or any Youth Sports but uh most of the youth sports are gathering rations now so they can plan for the spring I imagine GC is doing the same thing and is it thank you okay uh moving on to report from Parkson Rec director all right well I had sent in the email and then your packet in front of you the report that I sent to council so uh that was done last week but that provides uh some highlights from December essentially and numbers so if you have questions I'm happy to answer I wasn't going to go over uh everything there's a couple of items I do want to highlight um you did mention the fitness room so that has opened up to 18 and older the evenings from 5: to 8 so right now uh we're evaluating or we're calling it a pilot to see how it goes the only thing we're worried about is capacity so um it's not the largest Fitness room um but we do want it to be accessible to everybody and in the evenings seems like there's a lot of um open equipment so we are trying that um currently now till June and then we'll evaluate and see um how that goes um I did mention the so DNR grant that one's uh wrapped up free to apply for another one um the HUD Grant was

submitted from um that's for the HVAC on the um at Radcliffe um of course that is also impacted by the Federal grant freezing so we just have to wait and see I think there's already lawsuits and stuff so I have no idea what uh that will entail but it did get submitted uh after a lengthy lengthy process we are planning an Easter Extravaganza event for April 19th uh we are looking to partner with different Community groups so in the next week I hope to be reaching out to see if um other groups want to partner with us the idea is we're going to have h a pancake brunch um and uh an egg hunt uh but some other activities in open space or open rooms in Radcliff so we really want all ages to come uh and have brunch and uh the firemen are going to do the pancakes we'll have some things catered um we're still in the planning stages we're hoping to have Community groups participate or donate syrup or something we want it to be really affordable for uh everybody's seniors and families because we think it would be a great um event to to be at Radcliffe and then have the egg hunts in the like the little kids in the courtyard and then there's some other spaces so so hopefully I'll get some information out I would love uh for the park commission to uh be a part of it either um to table or uner so um when I send you the info I'll send you the flyer and you can let me know if you're around or interested in helping with that what date was that again uh Saturday April 19th so that is between Good Friday and Easter that's from 9: to noon and we're hoping to get 300 people and break them into three sessions um and then the appreciation dinner um

was is moved to to March 20th so you should be getting invitations I think soon um and those will be coming through email so that's for uh 2024 volunteering I don't know if the new people get it or not I but that's um hosted by the city for all the boards and commissions is that at Loma again what's that is that Loma I'm no is it going to be at Radcliffe where Radcliffe oh yeah yeah so um we already talked about the workshop um I that is it for me other than the Christmas tree decorations if you wanted to take them home some of you brought stuff um if you don't want it you want to keep it for next year I'll store with our tree but um I wanted to make sure I followed up on that but that is all I have okay um commissioner comments no I don't have one today oh I just want to say though Erica you did a great job on your presentation you really did a great job really that was really good did the fence ever get done at city park yes you haven't been here I have a picture of it with me standing by a packet of information for you actually now I think about it at my office I've just would like to say that I've been wck and twice during the last month I've seen the third and fourth GR graders from the various Garden City Schools running through the walking through the hallway and they seem to be having a great time they go to different locations and do different things and it's it's a good program uh welcome to you both happy to have a full commission that's all I have yeah um about the middle or the uh

elementary kids at the Radcliff Center I absolutely love that they're bringing field trips there that's fantastic like I mean seriously they don't have to travel to other cities to go to use all these amenities they can go right down the street so that's a really great idea that if you want to see something good watch them play dodgeball I got to give Shan Han the credit with f FRC he really reached out and coordinated it and then got us all roped in and so it's been very fun yeah that's cool that's all I have and welcome welcome I have nothing welcome yeah thank you any comments no no comments welcome you said mentioned a little bit about myself right yeah yeah if you'd like to new um it's an honor to serve as a commissioner with you all and it's great to meet all you guys today um I've lived in Garden City for 15 years here with my wife I've got a well we have a 13year old son 10y old daughter I acted in GCA he played football my daughter cheers I've been a football coach for the last six years um I plan on hanging up my whistle this year and I'm just going to help out behind the scenes with the director and Joe Bandy he was at the last meeting right um I try to do whatever I can volun my time withc it's a great organization thank you yeah I'm glad to see GC on this Miss because it's such a huge part of our city and our Parks so having you on this board is kind of like how I got involved when I was with the soccer club and I felt that you know to represent the the youth in the community in that sport was

what I intended to do and I've been here I don't even know how many years now but um but Joel brought me on when he was on the board and then you know he had left and we didn't have anyone from GC ya so I'm excited that you're part of that so and I will add that done a great job I think I was watching videos from back last May or so was that probably your first oh my gosh feels like 10 years ago to get up I know that you were thr a curve ball from the beginning and you had to do the best that you could do I think the majority would say that you've done a great job and I would like to continue you in that right direction have approved many of these things where at least yeah it's great to be a part I have one other thing nope should we set dates for the park cleanups I know you yeah you you had it like spring summer but yeah I actually I just moved it to the next month agenda and I didn't so next month we're gonna have the volunteer workday so I think I'm going to bring a plan and and for some of the new folks uh there is I think this something I should probably talk to you about Kate is how if we want to keep the parks like everybody as a commissioner is like uh a park what do we call it assigned a park assigned a park and so you do evaluations on it and when we host events it's kind of like that's your Park uh so I think we need to look at that and see if everyone has a park if they want to keep that park right CU I I think you talked about sometimes you moved it but you wanted to keep it so I think we could talk about that get some dates for the work days you have a list of I do I do maybe bring

that next time because yeah I have a list um of the parks assigned and I've got Bridget at Arcola Dennis City Park I didn't even know what park I was at oh okay Sharon Florence Park I don't have anyone at Helen Park Kate kowas Jennifer Manor Robert Mohler and John rary in city so Helen Park so if if we want to keep them we can review it next meeting and maybe go over what responsibility is or because some of you do inspections I don't even know where that inspection form is we have them I have a couple bring you one okay so we could go over that and assign them and then work on the dates for the spring and summer work days but thanks for bringing that up anything else yeah cu the bookday over real big I mean we had people come in and volunteer yeah um and our next meeting is February is know 25th put it on record here it'll be it'll be quick the 25th so it'll be a quick meeting because we're so late and and we had such a long break so okay somebody like to make a motion I'll make a motion to adjourn I second who's Jen say you no I did oh Bridget okay oh yeah and I'm going to put back on the c or back in the next meeting agenda uh secretary if anybody's interested you said you have you have this no I don't even have that