City Council - Regular Meeting

So, good evening everyone. Uh, I'll call this Tiger City Council to order. Uh, city recorder Craig, would you please conduct a roll call? I will pass the microphone. Youth Youth Councelor Helock here? Mayor who? Here. Councelor Robbins here. Councelor Schlack here. Councelor Shaw here. Council President Wolf here. Councelor Anderson here. Councelor Gdusi

here. All right. Thank you. And do we Yeah. Would you please stand and do the pledge of allegiance? To the flag of the stands nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. All right. So there's only one item on our agenda which is respect for workplace training and HR director Gomez will make the introduction.

Thank you, Mayor. Uh good evening and welcome to tonight's session for respectful workplace training as directed to staff back in October of 2025. Uh staff was asked to provide training on respectful workplace and I'm very happy to introduce Deborah Jeff from HR answers. Uh I was also happy to let you know that leadership team is here to support you in your decisions and your commitment to making this happen and we're excited about that. As our staff through the city um only 20 people have not been able to attend this training. So, thank you to all of you. Good evening.

Now, I'm hoping that I don't have to actually hold the microphone and that this will pick me up. And so, let me know whether or not that's true or not true. I I I do better with not holding too many things in my hands at once. This is when I really do want to be the proverbial octopus and have an extra hand set of hands. Anyone yet know you'd like to Okay, maybe it's just me. Um, so thank you Laura. I appreciate the introduction and thanks for the opportunity to be here. Uh my name is Deborah Jeff and I do hail from a company called HR Answers which is housed right here in Tigard and we've been here for 10 years now and uh we're a 41-year-old firm and I've been with the firm for over 30 of those years and we have bopped around from Portland to Twolitin and now most recently here in Tigard and I actually live down in Salem so I get an opportunity to spend time in a variety of cities and actually work with and this is one of the number one topics that u between that and supervision that I spend spend a great deal of time delivering and sharing and answering questions on. So, I want to make sure that just to kind of set the stage a little bit that I've obviously put together some materials for you and um Laura does have those. HR has those. If you want a formal copy um or uh an electronic copy to take with you and to have and to hold from this day forward, then by all means. Um, but also I want to encourage you to ask any questions for clarification or you've just some things that you want to um apply directly to or if we want to verify from a stance of the city, please feel free. I have no qualms about answering questions or providing clarification in the information that I have. This really is for all of us here from a leadership standpoint. Now, with that said, um I thought I would also set the stage because this is what I shared with all staff when I was

providing and um mayor, you may remember making this statement because I actually have that here in my notes that it's an honor of a lifetime to serve as mayor of the Tiger. um and that um you proudly call the beautiful city your home for more than 20 years and deeply grateful for the trust that the community has placed in you and that Tiger isn't defined by one person, it's all of us working together. And that's something I think about from a leadership standpoint that this is not only a topic of of a focus for an organization, but it takes everybody and as a leadership team and those that are here tonight to support all of this, it is a top-down kind of topic and interaction from a day-to-day standpoint and how we all show up each and every day. So, I really I appreciated that statement. Um, and not being just one person that it's all of us to to build a city where everybody feels welcomed. And I think that that's important and depending on where you're going or who you're encountering within the city, that that's happening at every single level. Um, and that you're committed to restoring stability, strengthening trust, and making sure local government reflects the teamwork and respects that the residents deserve. and and that's each and every employee too. And so I I opened that and shared that with each staff member because that is an extension of what I believe the programming is also reinforcing in one fashion or another. So making sure that my little clicker is going to advance with us and maybe the answer is yes and maybe the answer is no. So maybe I am standing in one place all night. All right, we will not be using that. Uh, so this is what I have on planned for in terms of our agenda is thinking about what does it really mean in terms of a respectful workplace and how do we

then each and every single one of us be doing that? Um, and being able to how to respond to situations if they occur, but also what are our roles and responsibilities and as a council member, as a as a council, as a unit, what does that look like? and being able to consider our policies and our procedures within the organization um and being able to kind of understand a larger viewpoint as well. So again, welcoming questions. So why this training and why now? Um it's no it's no mystery that organizations as a whole and the city of Tiger is no exception. Um prior challenges within leadership, legal and organizational risks. Um, oftentimes, um, I just went and did some training in Cami and one of the gentlemen that I was walking by just happened. You know how timing is everything? He just happened to be saying at his little pod of tables, "Why do we have to do this every year?" And I just happened to be walking by. Because it's not only good business, but because we want to educate everybody, new employees and the such. And he kind of looked at me like, "Oh, I've been caught." Well, there's also a commitment to doing better and being educated. And even though I sometimes go into organizations and I do programming and changing up every year, there's still an element of, oh, did we talk about that before? Do I remember that? Because sometimes it's what's resonating with you at the moment, right? What's hitting you at any given time. So when we think about setting these expectations for a respectful workplace and what does it mean to be part of the city and reaching out to the residents and the constituents and being able to truly reinforce that the when Laura introduced uh introduced me and she said that staff has gone through the training then this is also about everybody sharing the same expectations. Are we all on the same page? Do we understand

what that means? and looks like and sounds like and now upholding those and being a role model. And it's not just the council being a role model. It is every single person who works within the city because if we're going to say that we do these things, then we need to do them right and and being able to say, okay, this is leadership, not just at at the council level, but everybody level. Well, in addition to that, when we talked about in the the opening statement that the mayor had made in terms of rebuilding trust, well, trust is huge in any size any organization of any size, but also from a leadership standpoint, from a supervisory standpoint. What are we doing each and every day, even in our personal lives to build trust with the people that we spend time with? And how are you doing that? How does that show up? Because if you're not intentional about that, then it just kind of quote it happens. Well, not necessarily. So, when we think about what your role is as a council and people coming to your meetings, well, how does the community see you? How we speak, how we interact with each other, how we address them, how they address us, how we treat staff, they're watching and they're listening. Everybody is. And so whether that's an exchange in the parking lot, whether that's out in the hallway, if that's when you're sitting up at the at the desks, when you're interacting, when you're answering questions, all of that matters because when we talk about a respectful workplace, how do we actually define respect? And I would ask you to think about that because that behavior then sets the tone for future interactions or how people will perceive you because what you say and what you do and how you act gives people a perception of you and is it accurate? Is it what you want them to think and perceive about you? Because you have the ability to control that in

one fashion or another. So if we're building trust and then credibility and building confidence in our local government, let alone other levels of government, this is the one we're focused on. And are we doing what we set out to do? Are we doing what we say we will do? Are we reinforcing that? Because this isn't just about a respectful workplace. It's also the goals, the bigger picture, and we are we moving forward always in those things. So, I will stop right there for a moment and ask if there's any questions or observations from anyone who's with me. And do we we have some people who are joining online? Is that true?

Okay.

You think that that might work? It couldn't hurt. It's kind of like the onoff. Turn it off. turn it back on again and see if it resets itself. But that's okay. I'm not going to I'm not that tied to anything. It's good. I truly we punt. We always punt. So, one of the things that I'm thought I'm thoughtful about um is there was a a recent memo that came out from the mayor and when we talk about some of the key points and ex back to that word expectations and formal guidance to all of us, council sets policy and direction absolutely positively. Staff executes operations and does implementation from that. And then we take that one step further and say council members does not direct staff directly. Now I have a chance to work with a lot of boards of directors. Um and this is one of those areas that really gets a lot of people um tied up in knots because what is the role of everybody and does everybody understand when they're an elected official or get hired onto a board of directors? What are the expectations and what does that look like? And when you're so immersed in doing bodies of work, boundaries are also an element of respect. And when people like share workspaces, returning a workspace to a nice area so the next shift can come in and work or the next person can come in and work. Well, it's the same thing in terms of boundaries. How many of you have ever had a relationship or working relationship with someone who doesn't like or is a close talker? Ever have a close talker and they're just a little too close? Right? they're crossing a boundary, right? It's a little uncomfortable. So, this is the same kind of thing. We all have boundaries. Some of us are a little bit more familiar

with them than others, but we also have workplace boundaries. And being able to understand roles and responsibilities is also a form of respect in terms of have we crossed over? Do we know or do we understand that certain conversations that we have, certain asks that we might have could be potentially crossing lines? So, I'm thinking that these are some of the key points out of that memo that came um out and you let me know if I'm incorrect, mayor, because this was pulled right out of a memo. So when we talk about what does this really look like in practice from a day-to-day standpoint in some fashion or another um when we think about respect for people's position respect for authority when we think about maybe a chain of command in some fashion or another or the way we've set things up requests through city manager roles staff roles in terms of where appropriate neutrality um appropriate channels for communication or requests for things. Um, I was talking to someone um earlier today uh and it's a coaching client that I have and he's using Slack. Some of you might be familiar with the platform Slack. He's using that to do some of his performance feedback to his employees. Not the right channel of communication for the work that needs to be done. there are better options that are more respectful and appropriate, but the organization has said to him, "We use Slack as a communication tool." He's doing what he was told, but he didn't. He's missing the nuance. And so he's like, "But I'm doing what I'm supposed to." And I share that with

you as an example because yes and we need you to use your thought process of what's going to be the best thing and what's the goal and what's the outcome and what could be that ripple effect who's going to be impacted by this in some fashion or another. So when we think about, you know, council and what does that look like? Not directing staff outside the structure, creating side conversations and sensitive topics. And let's face it, you cannot control how other people perceive things. Other people have other perspectives and points of views. But sometimes we can have I can watch something across the parking lot and go, "Oh, that doesn't look good." But I can't hear them. I don't know for sure. So in that case, what would be some good suggestions to make sure that I'm not passing erroneous information? What should I be doing? What should I be consider? And this is not a theoretical question. I'm actually asking a question of you.

Yes, please, sir. Seek first to clarify it. Seek first to clarify. Absolutely. Okay. And how how would I how would I do that? What would what what's your method of seek first to clarify? You would do that by You want me to use the microphone? Oh, yes, please.

Um, it would I mean it would be situational, but if you're talking about the example you gave of of maybe a couple of individuals on the far side of the parking lot having a heated or what appears to be heated convers conversation, maybe approach one and and say, "Hey, is everything all right? is is there something I can do to help what you know what's what's the situation and try and get some feedback maybe they were you know reenacting something from a sitcom they saw the night before who knows right but um it's something that we use in in uh the police department whenever we are like hold on we it's a phrase you'll see it in offices seek first to clarify so you don't rush to judgment on something

absolutely which gets back to that neutrality component but it also gets back to just asking questions because we don't know, right? We can make How many of you have ever been known to make an assumption? Anybody ever jump to conclusions,

right? How did how did that work out for you? I got one person, yeah, not so bad. You know, I'm at a 50-50 split, right? So being able to be thoughtful about that because that's the kind of thing that then if we do make some assumptions or jump to conclusions and we then share information with somebody else, is that really what it was or was it something else? Because we don't really know. So when we can can we put people in compromising positions? Can we ask for things that are not our business to ask for or it wasn't the appropriate protocol in some fashion? didn't think anything of it. But that's the kind of thing that then we talk about like board training or council training. What are some of our dos or our don'ts? Do we understand? Because the the energy and the enthusiasm to serve, to participate, to get involved, to put yourself out there. That's awesome. And yet at the same time, there's some guidelines. There's some protocol. All right. I need to be able to There we go. So, when I think about that message again, setting the tone from the top, you know, it's an honor of a lifetime to serve to give back to the community, that's the kind of thing that we're talking about. So, when I again talking about the fact that staff has already had the programming that you're you're seeing tonight. Now, not all of these things. Some of the slides I let's be perfectly frank, some of the slides have been tailored to council. Okay, just making sure that we're on the same page about that. Um, and city council expected to model and reinforce the same things we're asking of the employees at all levels because you are the role model. You're up at the top. We're watching. We're listening and paying attention to you. So, beginning with leadership modeled daily through our words, our body language, our tone, um, our actions, right? Actions speak louder

than words. We've heard that phrase time and time again. Um, when we talk about accountability, when we talk about trust, when we talk about professionalism, and that's another word that when we going into workplaces, what how do people define professionalism? How do they define respect? Do we all have the same definition to these things? So, one of the things that I think that is important about our time this evening is this is representing that commitment, the the whole process um for the city, what we said we were going to do, why it was important um employees going first, council going next um to address past behavior, to ensure that it doesn't happen again going forward to have standards and expectations going forward. um and opportunity for learning, um asking questions, setting the stage, reflection, a recommmitment of sorts. Um and being able to kind of look at that and say, "Okay, now what does that look like? What does that sound like?" Because when I talk with folks, the the thing that I share with them is the very least the very least that we deserve when we go to work every day is to be treated respectfully. That there is dignity in terms of doing that. Because otherwise, why would you want to go to work every day and be treated poorly, badly by a co-orker or a supervisor or even by the public on an ongoing basis in some fashion or another. So, when we think about the culture that we're trying to create, that comes from every single person involved inside the workplace. It's not a one person kind of deal. It's not only leadership. It's an everybody. But that means we have to hold everybody accountable to that. Would you agree? Yes or yes?

Yes. Okay. So, I've referenced this a couple times and so I'm I'm going to actually ask out loud. Okay. Respect. What is a respectful workplace? Define it. Describe it. And we can do this kind of popcorn style. I can put you into small groups. I'm really good at breaking people into small groups. and you can have discussions and we can come back as a large group and discuss. This is a democratic society and I will let you decide how you would like for that portion of the program to go. Do I have votes for small group? I got two votes for small group.

Do I have votes for popcorn style? We have more votes for that. Okay, that just means you have to talk to me there. There's no, it's not an option not to participate out loud. All right. So, what does a respectful look workplace sound like, look like? And let's focus on the city of Tiger. When we think about that, what does that looks like, sound like, smell like? What does it what does it look like for you? Listening.

Safe. Tell me what you mean by safe. assaulted. So, not being yelled at, not being yelled at, not having your workspace invaded by somebody else, not having someone steal your lunch or any of those number of things. You can come into work and know that you won't be molested in any way during that day. Molested in any way. That's a very kind of interesting word to use. Okay. Bothered then.

Bothered. Well, and I and I I think it's important because words have power. Words have meaning. Do we all have the same definition to those, right? Because in the truest of sense and I think we could go to the police officer when we think about molest molesting molestation um might have a completely different kind of definition than and if that was happening in the workplace we got ourselves a very serious issue that we need to address and that becomes a criminal act and that becomes something that the police would get involved in and that really takes us outside of the workplace and there are some serious issues that do happen in the workplace or on out in the field with a crew that would be during work. That could be something that kind of serious. And yet at the same time, how are people um one of the things I often will say to people is that this conversation has everything to do with you. What you say, what you do, how you act, how you behave, how you interact with other people. And at the same time, this conversation has nothing to do with you. And it has everything to do with all those how you think, how you say, how you act with people, how you come across other people, how it lands on others, with others. And so how they take that in. And so when we have um if we raise our voice, certain words that we use, what's that impact that it's having on them? because is that having some kind of ripple effect? Did that um did that hit their button? Did that provoke them in some fashion? Is that um an event that's causing them some kind of angst? Um and because of that, being thoughtful and aware that that could be true for others. It may not be true for

you, but it could be for them. So being able to be thoughtful about how we're conveying messages and information, right? That's why I share that and that's why I think it's important what do our words mean to us and defining it. Because if I take a pause in our definition, I want you to think of one word, just one word to you that might define respect. And what would be your one word? Now, I might be overstepping. You said listening earlier. I'm kind of guessing that might be kind of a word for you. So, what might be a oneword definition for respect for you?

Dignity. Let's move down the Let's move down the aisle or the row. Dittogency, right? Okay. Not one word. I'm sorry. No, that's okay. That's okay. So, the agency of being who you are respected for that. Okay, good. Single word. Don't have one yet. Okay. Front row. Trust. Trust. Not listening. Patience. Patience. Serious serious

thoughtfulness

thoughtfulness okay so when we think about these words here and I'm not going to ask you guys because I know you've been through the training um but one of the things that I think is important about that is that we don't necessarily all have the same one word and because of that often times what happens is that that one word is how you would like to be treated how you would like that to be an interaction with you and that is nothing wrong with that. But then that means as someone who works with you or someone who supervises you or interacts in some fashion or another, I got to know that about you. And there is some um if I said to you the golden rule, what's the golden rule?

Treat others like you would like to be treated. Which is a fine foundational piece. It's a little egotistical though from the standpoint of that means that everybody wants to be treated like I do. Now, this is the example I often use, so forgive me for those of you who have heard this. How many of you like public displays of appreciation? I'd like you to come up here and I'd like to recognize you for all the things you do really well in front of others. Who would like to step up here with me? No, not interested. You'd rather have your appreciation one-on-one quietly kind of behind the scenes. But see, if I treated you like I like to be treated, I'm like, "Bring it on. Let's go." Right? So, I think that one of the things is there's something called the platinum rule. Anybody familiar with the platinum rule? close.

Treat others like they would like to be treated. So, back to that one word, I need to know enough

there there might be more to unpack there. I guess I'm not I'm not sure. Um, but the the premise behind that then is you have to know enough to do that, but you have to care enough to do that, right? And I'm not sure that everybody does, but if that's the expectation, then treat others like they would like to be treated. And so being able to find out more about them. So when we think about this definition of a respectful workplace. What does it sound like? What does it look like? We can set the stage for the baseline so that one, it's compliance. Two, it doesn't get us into trouble with others. But three, let's go to the highest kind of power. And the answer is not only is it the right thing to do, it's the nice thing to do because it's a humanto human kind of interaction, right? Because now let's go the opposite direction. What happens? What could happen? What have you seen or experienced when we aren't respectful or professional or appropriate in the workplace with others? What could be our potential outcomes?

Bullying or commanding. Okay. What else? staff can leave so we can have turnover, right?

Because people are just so much time is spent just wondering if I say this is how and you're just not in a free space to do your best. Right? So I think of that a little bit like I'm I'm like my brain is multitasking,

right? So I'm not as focused on the task at hand, the quality of work. I can be quote distracted in terms of two things are going on at the same time. And if you think about some of the work the city is being asked to do, you've got people who are out in the field, that's could become a safety issue if we're not focused on the job at hand and we're worried about another shoe dropping or constantly looking over my shoulder for something or someone. or I'm not paying attention to the details. That can become quite a safety concern, let alone a human respect concern.

Well, just yes about the work and about the joy just here doing work that matters and oh sorry and the joy. Um, so

right doing work that you enjoy, wanting to come to work, but also taking pride in your work in some fashion or another because most of us don't want to get up every morning and go to work someplace where we're not valued, not appreciated, not heard, not seen. You want all of those things as a human being. So then when that's not happening, then that does steal a little bit of the joy, right? The happiness that that we we would like to have, right? Because again, where are you spending the majority of your waking hours? That's where I'm spending the majority of mine. PS, and by the way, as I'm texting my husband as I'm driving up here, hey, PS, and by the way, I um I don't think I told you I wasn't going to be home tonight.

I'm going to be with the city of Tiger. And he goes, oh, no, no, no. Good, good, good on you. Great clarification. And I actually was sending him the message as I was getting in the car. Send sending the message. Sending the message. Hey, want to let you know fed the cat. The kid's still at home. Don't know if he's really eating or not. He was in the shower when I was leaving. And so, thank you for the clarification. Yes.

No, no, no texting and driving. I was trying to find something to listen to on the way up and my favorite radio station was like this station is now something something because there's a radio show or a sports this program sporting event and I'm like that's not helpful. So I just Yeah, you can cut that out of the recording, can't you?

Yeah, it's live. Great honey. I'm sorry. So when I've asked the question about your one word, this is some of the answers that I've gotten from people. The larger the word, the more times it has been said. So I share that with you again back to the we don't all define it the same way. We're looking for different things from other people. and yet great words. Um that and you know Artha Franklin and her song pops up a lot if you're familiar might have to be of a certain generation. Okay. All right. So, I think that other word that sometimes can pop up because whether you're in a dental office or whether or not you're on a construction crew, whether you're a consulting firm or working for the city, what's our definition of being professional? So, now I will say that when I gave this to the employees of the city, I had these all mixed up and I said, "Pick and choose. Tell me if this classifies or does it not." I put them in in two columns this time and unless I made a mistake, which is quite possible. Um, and I did um adjust some of my bullet points to be more counciloriented in some cases. Uh, so I'll call that out. Um, but in other cases, they are the same ones. I think sometimes it's easier to come up with a whole bunch of stuff that's not professional. it it's in my world it's sometimes more fun to come up with things that are not professional um because honestly from a human resource consulting standpoint this is stuff we get called about all the time

and since the pandemic I would tell you that we've had more inquiries and more challenges and more requests for training and I don't mean quote harassment training I'm talking truly respect and play nice in the sandbox because somehow something transpired for folks. They were gone for a period of time. They weren't with people as much and now bringing people back and having them get reacquainted in that regard, stuff happened. Things morphed or changed for people um and that became a little bit more uncomfortable. And some people don't read tone, don't hear tone as well, don't read body language as well, don't get a joke that someone is sharing and and they're struggling in one fashion or another. And so we are doing more with less. We are backing meetings to meetings to meeting and people don't have transition time. We are doing things online and people can't read all the body language and so that makes it harder for people who need some of those cues to be able to converse with people. our communication is suffering a great deal. So when we think about professional or not, when we think about our own actions or not, because as someone who's done some coaching with people and they're like, I think I am being respectful or professional, but other people are not interpreting it that way. What's what's the disconnect? What's going on there? And do we feel comfortable? Do we feel safe in the moment of being able to ask some clarifying questions about was it your intent to be funny or was it your intent to be embarrassing? Did you just say X and is this what you meant by that? People say nothing at all and then walk

away feeling yucky. Or they'll talk to a co-orker or a family member about it, but they won't talk to the individual about it because it's uncomfortable. Yeah. And yet then we start telling ourselves our own stories and a lot of things could be cleared up very quickly or boundary lines could be drawn very succinctly in don't talk to me that way again or that makes me uncomfortable. But instead we take a step back and we don't say anything. And being silent might indicate what? Acceptance or permission. And that's exactly the opposite of what you were wanting, but that might have been a cue that they picked up and it was the wrong one. Questions or comments or observations?

Yes, sir. Say again, please. Oh, you have to get the microphone so you can say it out loud. Thank you, Carol. Um, so you have a bullet point there that says retaliating or withdrawing. And what's withdrawing mean in this particular case? Like withdrawing from the process, right? I'm not I'm not engaging. Okay.

In it. So, um, depending on the nature of the situation, um, one of the things that can can happen is that people can like try and get even or get back at or uh, one of the gentlemen that I am um, coaching right now, he feels like I just won't say anything. I won't participate. I won't engage. I won't share ideas. I'm just I'm out.

Can you do your work without communicating with any other co-workers or residents? I don't think so. That's not really an option. But that's how he's feeling. But that's that is not going to help the situation. It actually is going to make it kind of worse. But it's a kind of a form of, well, I'll show them they ha they can't do stuff without me, but I've been hurt so badly and I I'm darned if I do, and I'm darned if I don't, so I'm just going to opt out. Like, um, I don't think that's really professional. That's not going to get the job done. So, that's what I mean. Does that help?

Yes. Thank you.

Good. All right. So when we think about bullying and someone brought up kind of bullying or is and I I separate levels of things um from a what remember what happens when we are not respectful, professional and appropriate with each other. Um intimidation is one of the big words that will come up. So are we intimidating people? Is this a use or a misuse of our power or our authority in some fashion or another? Um, anything that we're doing that degrades people, offensive to people. um when we're doing something in front of a group of other people where we're tearing people down. Um taking um doing something that might erode their credibility in some fashion or another where someone is feeling defensive um defenseless that they can't do something about it in some fashion or another. Um back to that word of dignity at work. Uh so being able to be thoughtful about that and it can show up in a variety of ways. Um and it can be it can become physical if we're not thoughtful but usually this is very much a element of power in some portion in some portion of or another. And so usually a bully is targeting people, people who won't speak up or won't defend themselves or want to address the individual. So I'm all about kind of trying to kind of understand the bully uh in that respect. um because they're all about power and control, but that also means chances are good they've been bullied themselves at some point in time and and

then this is their coping mechanism. This is how they deal with things and that doesn't make it right. It just means this is what they know. And we all as human beings have tendencies around things which is doing what we know works. So this works for me. Whatever your communication style, your problem solving, whatever you do, what works for you. Otherwise, you wouldn't keep doing it. You would move to something else. So somebody has netted some results by behaving this way. I see a hand. What do you mean by managing up?

Wonderful thing. So two there's to me there are two definitions of managing up. The positive way is from an employee standpoint working with their supervisor who might be struggling or doesn't know how to um maybe delegate or do some things and I'm helping them to say I can take that on or um this is how best to work with me because they they're they can't figure it out. That's a good way of being able to kind of manage up or I need some direction or please help me prioritize because the answer is we'd love it if the supervisor already knew how to do that or could see that I was struggling and would ask me those questions but I'm going to them getting them to it's sort of like helping them do their job but in a very professional appropriate way. Managing up with a bully is they know what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and how to manage you as my supervisor. You're not seeing anything. I'm a star performer in every way. You're not seeing these other behaviors because I'm not doing it in front of you, right? I know how to manage what your expectations are of how you see me. And as someone who's worked with the the struggling employee who's been a bully, the answer is we can't get rid of him or her. They are our biggest salesperson. They bring in the most money. What am I supposed to do? You're supposed to have a conversation with their be about their behavior because nobody wants to work with them. Nobody wants to be on the team with them. Nobody is willing to can you not see that separation when you talk about team they're all about me me they're not about the team there's no collaboration so they're very good at managing that image or that activity with the boss that's managing up

does that help your body language I'm not sure it's like I agree I don't agree I don't like it Deborah don't you know would You give me a different definition. You know, I just haven't seen that. Trust me, they don't. So, I'm trying to

connect the dots. Gotcha. Okay. Spend time with me afterwards and I'll give you all kinds of stories. Sadly, I have lots of examples. All right. But I like the question. I like the question. All right. So let's move from this onto another area that I think could be a concern from a human resource business related standpoint that ups the ante a little bit discrimination. So someone want to give me maybe like a little bit of a definition how you might describe that that word in the context of employment within this city. treating some differently because of a certain trait that they have. Absolutely. I love it. I love it. So, here's kind of mine, right? Unjustified prejudice kind of distinctions based on, right? Something that they can't change about themselves. That's the one of the most important pieces, right? And this is we perceive that they're part of a group or that it's not just a person. It could be a group of people that we're classifying in some fashion. So we're treating them differently based on something other than how they're performing on the job. So if we're keeping this very workrelated and that we would make employment related decisions, what might be what might constitute an employment related decision if we were talking about discrimination? a promotion,

special, time off, special assignment, a raise, and theoretically not in pay equity land of the state of Oregon, but that you know, just saying. Yes. Because not everybody knows that. Okay. What else?

Who you hire to begin with. Yep. Absolutely. Right. So being able to important to think about those things in terms of how they play out, right? So in the state of Oregon, these are our protected classes or our protected groups. These also are uh many of them count as federal protected categories as well. A lot of states have different ones. Our friends to the north have several additional ones. our friends to the south even more so. But these are all applicable in the state of Oregon. When you look at the list, do you find yourself on this list? I see some nods in the room.

Everybody has a race. Everybody has a gender, right? So this list covers everybody. The most important aspect though when we talk about discrimination is what is the action and behavior that has taken place or is taking place and then what is that and who are you? Because some of the actions or behaviors might be under one category but somebody is thinking or stating that something else is going on. And so the It's missing. It's missing the mark. I saw your hand.

There is none. This is all based on the logo of your organization that I put them in. You're the second person this month who has asked me a question about is there a difference between the shading? I had ombre shading and I was like, you know, I I used to have them all one color. I thought I'd just change it up, but now it's become a thing. like paying attention to the details. I love it. No. And it's supposed it's supposed to look really navy blue. It doesn't look very navy blue up there, does it? It does appear though. Yeah. See, it looks it looks so much different up there, doesn't it? One monitor to another.

Okay. Now, based on what's up there on the screen, do you have any questions about any of those? I see shaking of heads. No, there is one up there that everybody does usually ask me about. So, then I'll ask you, what is associated by a protected group? that you all said you didn't have any questions. Then I'll ask you what does that mean? Oh, somebody's got a hand in the air. doing something like attending a protest for said group or acting, donating, working in charities for said group or just being publicly friends with people in said group, family with people in said group.

Yes. And finish it. And and co-workers with people in said group, you're doing fine. You don't have to add any more to that. And the key is is that because it's a form of discrimination that then I'm making some kind of assumption or decision because you're associating with or connected to that group. So that was the finish it piece. Okay. Still have a hand? Yes, please. So if we go back to previously,

right? And here of the protected classes was veteran status. Yes. So that is one of the things that are taken into account in hiring. So is that an issue with discrimination and protected classes?

Wonderful question in terms of the veteran status. So here's the deal. It's only a concern when it's used in the negative way. when we talk about hiring and and people sometimes will get veterans points for being able to be part of the hiring. Um, no concerns there. The key would be more like if someone got a report of a veteran and they were uh dishonorably discharged, then are you saying then they're not eligible for hire because of the dishonorable discharge? Do you know why they were dishonorably discharged? Now, in the quote old days, decades ago, dishonorable discharge meant they did not fulfill their military service. That is still true today, but the reasons why they might have not completed that are completely different. So, we can have a medical concern, we can have family with a medical issue where they then left the service to go address things back home and they did not fulfill that. But that would be a dishonorable discharge. That's not the same as going awall. There's a big difference in terms of that. So being able to think about why would that be true? And in the quote old days, the old times, we often would uh an applicant who was in the service would come with their papers. Most people don't do that anymore. And most people don't ask about the discharge. They do ask if you've served and then can you verify your your service in terms of years or what branch of service in some fashion and with today's technology and information we can verify that.

So really my question I guess slash concern is with our hiring practices in the city are we discriminating against people that do not have a veteran status by giving them preferential treatment?

No you absolutely are not. you're totally fine because the idea is that you're not making the only decision based on veteran status. You're you're utilizing that as a piece of information. Most uh state federal positions do have some kind of benefit offering to folks that have been in the service. There's no guarantee they're going to get the job. It just means that they're going to be able to have a consideration. We're still looking at skills. We're still doing reference checking. We're still going to do a background check. We're still going to do all the things that we're going to need to do. All of that is going to need to add up to a favorable um point system or whatever it is that how you're ranking or rating the the applicants to be making then a a decision about the who you would be doing the job offer to. So, it is a benefit to the veterans that we still are doing that sort of thing. And that is a that's a that's a good thing. It's a fine thing. So no, you're not discriminating at all. That's in within the confines of the law. Yes, please. Oh, microphone is traveling from one person to another. And if I can add to that, it's partially because it Well, it is because it's the state law that says that. So if you replaced any of those, I think what you were getting at is if you replaced any of those with veteran status, yes, that would absolutely be illegal. But because veteran status is required by state law, that's the difference.

State law. Exactly. Right. Because if we said we award preference points for race, gender, national origin. Yes, that's illegal.

Thank you for the ad. I could have been more succinct, which has never been brought up before. All right. So, one of the things that we also have to be thoughtful of under the discrimination umbrella is what I call microaggressions. And I bring that up because sometimes these are things that we can say under our breath. These can be things that are brought up um based on our upbringing, based on uh things we're familiar with. But these are they're they're usually kind of brief. They often can be kind of subtle. Um they often can be unintentional. They could be also very intentional in terms of what's being said, but they're definitely a form of prejudice. Now, depending on where you grew up and how you grew up, you might not even know that what you're saying is something that a group of people or an individual would find highly offensive because no one has ever said anything to you before. No one has brought that to your attention. But if we are sharing a joke or um referencing something um in tandem with an individual or a group of individuals and someone does point it out, then that's also the opportunity to like are we being open-minded? Are we being growthminded to learn from others? Um but this is the kind of thing when we talk about the your under the breath comment or like when you're in a meeting and you do the little side comment to the person that's sitting next to you. What are we saying? What's the intent behind what we're saying? And would it be something that marginalizes an individual? If it's something that would be kind of a slight or a put down demeaning, then could that be a microaggression? And that's the kind of thing that someone else might be able to help us

learn about ourselves if we're saying something like that. if we're even like if we're profiling an individual or a group of individuals in terms of making a generalized statement, judging a book by its cover, so to speak. And so we need to be thoughtful about that because again to my earlier statement, what we say and what we do and how we say it and do it can give people a perception of us. And so you never you never know who's sitting next to you. You never know who's listening. You never know what's going on. And the answer is, you know, that's not okay, right? You know that people can find that offensive or a group of people or a gender could find that offensive. That's probably not your best choice. Everybody needs a a good coworker who will support them in helping them learn. So I put in a kind of an example here that just kind of says you know when it's good when we say we need your perspective on this but when we are asking a single individual to be like the entire representative of an entire race then then the answer is really I I I'm one person I'm not the entire race or the entire group or the entire gender. or I'm just one employee in that department. Don't we want to ask everybody? Or when we do those kind of backhanded compliments? Oh, you're so professional for such a young person or at your age. We maybe mean it as a compliment. However, what did you really mean when you said that? So, these are the kinds of things that I'm talking about. Often, the second to the last one, um they're just not a very good fit. for our culture. Well, an attorney could have a heyday with the

word fit. They're not a good fit. What does that mean? They don't fit in here. That's just right for put in the they're not a man, they're not a woman, they're not of a certain age, they're not a this, they're not a that. So, that's not that's not a good choice of words. So, we have to think about, you don't have to say whether or not any of these, but can you potentially see yourself in any of these statements in terms of saying something that might have been like, "Oh, I hadn't thought about that before. I might need to check myself at the door." I saw one nod. Okay. So, I'm just saying it's just something for us to kind of think about in that regards because we don't need any teasing. We don't need any challenges to come our way because otherwise, let's go up one more rung. If we're taking this on the ladder, right, we got treat others like they would like to be treated. Nice and simple. And if we don't, could we have like a bully? And if that isn't a thing, could we have discrimination? If we're really going to have challenges, could we end up in harassment? Anybody want to give me a definition of harassment? I know you don't want to. Could you miserable?

Okay. Making's life miserable in one way or another. Yes, please. Repeated targeting. Repeated targeting. Okay. Behind their back to others.

Nice. Innuendos behind someone's back. Okay. Giving me some kind of good examples. So, one of the things that and she's clicking on the slide. You don't like the fact that I have it in multiple parts? I don't think Teams likes my slideshow. That's what I think. That's funny. There we go. Just keep pushing buttons on the screen. Well, something will show up eventually. That's funny. Okay. So, when I first started doing this training over 20 some odd years ago plus, I think I'd have to go back and really look. Um, one of my definitions was deliberate, repeated, not welcome, not asked for, and not returned. And I was pretty happy with that definition. And then somebody said something in class to me one day and I was like, "Oh, wait a minute. I'm missing the key piece when we think about meeting the legal definition." And then because of that, one of the things that I started talking about more in my presentations and programming was the fact that I want to be really clear with people because how many of you have been and we were kind of mentioning this earlier. How many of you have been annoyed at work by a coworker? Okay. How many of you been like bothered? They're doing something that drives you crazy and you'd like it to stop. Maybe you've even asked them to stop and just keep doing it, whatever it is. Okay, I've got two very aggressive hands in the air that may be very

curious and want to learn more, but we'll move on. Um, but one of the things that is extremely important for us to meet the legal definition because as an HR person and employees coming to HR and saying, "This bothers me. This is annoying me. They've got to stop. I quote being harassed. The answer is doesn't meet the legal definition because I am here standing before you to say to you that over 90% of the challenges that then happen in the workplace do not meet the legal definition. They are inappropriate. They are unprofessional. They are disrespectful. They are highly offensive. They are breaking our policy in some fashion or another. And corrective action definitely needs to be taken. A conversation needs to be had. Coaching needs to be happening. Discipline, corrective action, something needs to take place because if we don't, chances are good it might continue because no one has said anything to them. No one has drawn a value line. They got the company handbook. They got the city handbook just like everybody else. But the answer is that was 15 years ago. Have they looked at it since? Has it been revisited? Sure, we've updated it and yet people still Oops. Because people are human and we're not perfect and yet we still have different definitions of treating people respectfully. So inappropriate, unprofessional, disrespectful, highly offensive, but it doesn't meet the legal definition because those items that are abolded here on the slide, back to the reason we did discrimination first, harassment is always going to have a component of

discrimination. It must incorporate that protected group or protected class. It has to have that at a foundational piece. Otherwise, it doesn't matter that it was deliberate, repeated, not welcome, not asked for, not returned. Because if you think about that definition, deliberate, repeated, not welcome, not asked for, not returned. Couldn't that be another definition of a word we brought up earlier?

Bullying, right? But see, a bully knows not to cross the line of discrimination because then it moves into something else. That is the managing up piece. They know where the line is and they won't cross it. See how I did that? So, it's important to be thoughtful about that because if we're interfering with people's ability to do good work, if we're looking over our shoulder, if we've created an environment where they don't want to come to work, can't come to work, they don't want to be here because of what's going on, that creates an environment that's not okay. But we have different types of harassment that go along with that. Does anybody know what the two key types of harassment are? I will put that under the umbrella. That is not the answer I'm looking for. But it is a type of harassment. It's got to go under a a bigger It's got to go under a different umbrella. A b a bigger a bigger umbrella. There is physical But that could be that goes across the board. I'll even show you a little bit of a spectrum of behaviors.

Ah, there we go. And see, and your your comment in terms of um the physical because it could be verbal, right? It we've got intentional, we've got unintentional because we could have people do or say something and it's unintentional, but it still could hit the mark, right? But hostile work environment is one of them. So, ding ding ding ding. What's the other one? Come on, gallery. Starts with a Q. Quidd proquo. So, quidd proquo. Something in exchange for something else. So this is the employ the employee or the receiving individual perceives that you have the power or the authority to offer the something in exchange for something else. They just have to perceive that you have the power. So I think you could see where as a council member you might be perceived as having the power or the authority to offer something in exchange for something else. Even if you're not a quote a direct report, you're not my direct report, right? You make decisions on behalf of the city. And if I say no to you, do you have the power or the authority, the ability to influence others to then make my life miserable at work? So this can be then explicit or implicit condition of continued employment, right? Or that you can you can impact the conditions of my employment, change that, influence that or make that a

reality with someone else who then changes it or impacts it in some fashion or another. So quit proquo. Now, traditionally, this has always been kind of like sleep with me and I'll do some favors for you. But I also think this can be out of the non-traditional kinds of work elements. You we you want preferred pricing on something and tell me that you will sign off on that deal and I'll give you the preferred pricing for five years and we didn't go through a competitive bid. Scratch my back. I'll scratch your back. It's doesn't have to be sexually based, but it does come with a right. So, and again, again, impacting the workplace. Then we say, okay, it's not quidd proquo, hostile work environment. So, you'll see these bullet points. Is the conduct unwelcomed? And is it offensive? Who gets to decide that? Oh, I see a hand. Okay. How do you draw the line between a genuine both parties are interested trade and a quid proco harassment?

So get let's get back let's get back to the is it a normal course of business activities it's above board ethical gone through our process or is this the shady deal behind the scenes we're whispering about it we are not going through proper channels kind of thing. But who's being harassed then?

So the key would be is that if there is an element of so typically my my example to you is it doesn't have to just be what we might traditionally think. It can expand the definition because that is not it's still workplace related, right? It's not only sexual, right? Can it impact other things? Because the answer is this. Is this an ongoing relationship?

Is this um are am I making um so think about even people who make deliveries, people who are coming into the workplace, are they making people at the front desk uncomfortable? Are we making expectations of the people making deliveries? Are we saying or doing something that's making them uncomfortable? And the answer is they're not even there that long. But that interaction when we're making um when we're asking people to give us something in exchange for something else and it's about our power or authority and they're afraid to say no or afraid to stay within the lines of does that does that they're they're they're going to say I'll do it because I don't want any of this other repercussions or I'm trying. So it's the undue pressure. It's the we just need to be thoughtful about is it the normal scope of we've got this RFP that's going out and we want you to know about it like everybody else. We're going to post it on the site. We're going to do it through procurement or are we working a side deal and if you get that then I'm looking for something in exchange for that kind of thing. So would it meet all the qualifications? Only time would tell. I just want us to be thoughtful of the power component and the this for that wouldn't just be quote sexually based which most people would put in the confines.

Thank you. Okay. So then when we have the hostile work environment offensive or unwelcomed who gets to decide if it's offensive or unwelcomed? The harassee, the receiver, the receiver. Anybody else? A bystander. Absolutely. Right.

HR if they happen to be the bystander. Yes. Right. So, one of the things that's important is that this gets back to how do you want to be treated, right? Where are those boundary lines in some fashion or another? So, when we talked earlier about what you see as an exchange between people, verifying, asking questions, finding out more because maybe it was nothing, maybe it was something. How many times has someone said, "Oh, it's not a big deal. That doesn't bother me." Okay, maybe it doesn't bother you. Is it still a violation of policy? Does it bother other people? Do we say, "Oh, that's just Jim. He does that to everybody." That doesn't make it okay. Right? And the research suggests that if something is happening, if someone's being harassed at work, they would rather not say anything and they would rather quit their job and go elsewhere than report it. Now, think about the good employees that are working within the city. We don't want to lose good talent. That would be awful because someone is making them feel so uncomfortable and it's not a safe place to report something. And the answer is no. We need to that needs to not be true. And I'm not saying it's fun. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying it's comfortable. But we have to create that environment where people do feel comfortable coming forward. They do trust in terms of that information being elevated to be reported to be taken care of. Because otherwise we've created an environment where it's not okay to talk or share or report things. It's not a safe place to work in some fashion or another. And that certainly doesn't help us from a

recruiting standpoint, let alone a retention standpoint. And as a complete bystander, there are other cities one can go work at, and they aren't even that far away. We want them to stay here. Good skills don't just grow on trees these days. We need them. We want them. So if people are feeling unwelcomed or something is offensive again to how do people like to be treated? This is an important factor. So I often will say to people if someone said something or did something didn't pass the flinch test, did people cringe? I think the young people say cringeworthy these days. That's not necessarily a good thing. Then the little hairs on the back of your neck stand up. And that's my tellt tell sign that something is not okay because my little hairs do stand up. When we repeat something, something's repeated after we've given notice. When we've drawn that line and we've said stop or we don't like it or please don't. When we think about severe or pervasive, and that's words that are used in the law, how severe or how invasive is something. So, has it grown in intensity, frequency, more people are involved, not just one person, multiples? That's a concern. It's one thing if it was said one time and someone goes, "I'm sorry. I didn't know that that was I didn't mean to. Please forgive me." That request for I apologize. But when we have somebody who apologizes over and over and over again and keeps doing it over and over and over again, they are working the process.

They are managing up because they know how to apologize, but they're still getting away with it. Those are what I call hardcore harassers. When an organization or a department or an individual knew or should have known that something was going on, knew that something could be a potential challenge and we didn't step up. We didn't respond in some fashion or another. This could lead us into a hostile work environment. This can be reporting something. But this is also if we go back to just the thought process of the golden rule. I would say a golden rule for me is providing people with education. The golden rule is we all went through the education. We all have it. Now behave accordingly. Then we all knew or should have known something was not okay for somebody. Someone shared it with a coworker and did we as a bystander say something? Something is not okay for this person. I went to my supervisor. I went to HR. Something is not okay. And how did we respond to that? How did we take care of that for the person? Because all of those bullet points could be true, but we don't have a hostile work environment yet. The only way it becomes a hostile work environment is that last bullet point. And again, all those elements could be true and we would have violation of policy, something that needs corrective action that needs to be addressed absolutely positively, but it's not going to meet that threshold of the legal definition of a hostile workplace. That would be considered harassment, but we might have a toxic workplace.

Different considerations under the law. Still not a good place to work. Yes or yes. That is where you're supposed to say yes, Deborah. So here's my spectrum of behavior. So when we think about what it could look like, and this is not all encompassing by any stretch of the imagination, you guys, but visual, verbal, written, physical, power, threats, force, when you look at this chart, your observations, your questions, I have two questions. Number one, what is magazines mean? Just it's just the word magazines, and I'm not quite sure where what that means, what that looks like. So, um, periodicals, magazines, like at the grocery store, doctor's office magazines.

Yeah. So, a lot of times, sometimes certain magazines might have some pictures. Oh, yeah. Okay. There we go. So, that because they're under the visual, some pictures might not be appropriate. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then, how is anything under force not considered harassment with first occurrence? Okay, great question. How about if I ask somebody else in the room to explain the column under force for harassment?

Got it. Bigger fish to fry. Sorry. Bigger fish to fry. It's a more serious harassment could be a component of each of those

Yeah. So from a workplace standpoint, one of the things that um one of the reasons why I put that on there sadly is because these are things that have happened in the workplace. So and we've had unfortunately we've had clients who had situations where this has occurred. Okay. Um, how we handle that matters. Um, and to be perfectly frank with you, um, I've had a client, and this is many years ago, but had a client where an employee um, was taken advantage of, um, after a, uh, employee gathering, not company sponsored in any way. Someone offered them a ride home and took advantage of them, came back to work on Monday, and she said, "I can no longer work with them." and the HR person said, "Friday was fine. Monday is not. You got know any more than that." Of course, this was quite traumatic and she didn't really want to say a lot, but it came out and so the um this is not a uh gleaming uh recommendation for the HR profession. Uh they said because it didn't happen at work, it was not workrelated or work sponsored. It's not our issue or our problem. Go back to work. in the cubicle space that they had which was kind of a pod of four and the answer is absolutely the wrong piece of information to share. Um she had gone to the hospital she had uh had a rape kit taken care of um administered um and now there would be criminal proceedings um and that took on a life of its own. Um, but both of those and and depending on company policy, physical assault might be grounds for immediate termination depending on how things are written. So, I put that up there because one, I want people to ask questions and if they don't, then I'll share. But when we

think about this spectrum of behavior, again, it can get out of hand. And what sometimes will happen in those cases, physical assault can be a variety of things, but under the the the other category, one of the things that can We can have employees that are dating and then they're not dating anymore and the relationship isn't over for one person, right? Or someone feels like someone's leading them on or or or or um and so this is something that can take place, right? Or when we have gatherings and alcohol can be involved, other things can take place. So unfortunately these can be real situations in our workplace that then an employer has to deal with. Um and these really are criminal acts that are then going to be handled in another way. And how we handle that or how we report that is going to matter because that again would then be something that would be greatly elevated to we're turning that over reporting that to the police because now we are in that respect a mandatory reporter. something that we we've come to understand that is true. So great question. Other questions on our chart. So you'll notice several things have asterisks, right? So to the definition kind of before about deliberate and repeated, the law also says some things only have to happen once and it could still rise to the level of harassment. And usually those things that are visuals can get us in the biggest trouble. Um and yet there are plenty of businesses that have visuals like um our uh places that do a beer distribution. They still have some still have those founders or posters promoting their their special beverages and whatnot. And

the answer is are all employees okay with that and how you handle that is a thing. Um but at the same time um one of the things is is what's the culture of the business and have we asked employees if they're okay with everything and do we have a method of if I'm now not okay with it can I report that and what are our adjustments because I've had places where it's like we're okay with that unless somebody comes forward an employee you need to understand your calendar is on the verge like up in Seattle with the sea gals it was Okay, everybody signed off on it. As far as I know, it continued to be okay. But at least they addressed it instead of like, we'll just keep our fingers crossed and hope everything's okay. That's not the right route to go. Then we have the slurs and the hate mail. Okay, these are things that there can be no doubt about what we're doing. And just so that we're perfectly clear because people go, "Uh, Deborah, hate mail via email." No, this is like threatening someone's life or using those protected classes, using um the slurs in conjunction with this is, you know, someone of a person of color who's getting a you're going to have a a noose with your name on it hanging in the locker room if that happens again. So, it's these kinds of hate mail that there can be no misunderstanding. And there was some here in the in the 2000s too, emails that have been sent like that in this country that I am aware of that have made it through a court system. So these are things to pay attention to, let alone under our physical number two box touching someone's wheelchair. People who are using apparatus for their mobility see it as an extension of their body. And you can think you're being helpful. six ways to Sunday, but that's

not how they view it. So, back to that comment that I made, it has everything to do with you and nothing to do with you and how it lands on someone else, how they take it in. You're trying to be helpful, but you're still touching them because that's an extension of their body. So, it's always always a good idea to ask if you can assist. Just like best if you say, "Is it okay if I hug you? Because I know many of you have heard, don't hug in the workplace. I'm of the mind and I will say to people, yes, that's probably the ult most best practice there is. Don't even get close. And yet the reality is we're human beings and some of us are okay with that and as long as you ask, you ask, it's safe. But I still can appreciate why it would be none. That's okay, too. You have your boundaries. Back to boundaries. Any other questions on this? Okay. So, when we think about making sure that we're doing all things right, best practice, keeping in step to make sure that we don't find ourselves getting in in trouble when there then is requests or reporting things out or whatnot. When we think about our role on the council, communications, decisions, interactions, requests for things, um when I think about um minimizing um risk and liability, um just to give you the quick snapshot at HR answers, we used to provide HR support services for uh an employment practices liability insurance

policy for 1,200 insureds across the country for 10 about 11 years. So when I think about managing risk and all the things because we were only focused on like harassment, discrimination, and retaliation and there's a lot of other risk capabilities and areas that we could have focused on, but that's was all that the insurance policy was covering. Then I think about what's discoverable, what can be reviewed, what can be asked for, what's what's the pro um what's the the right of the public versus not, what's under privilege, what's not, what goes into um special session or not. So we have to be thoughtful about when we're communicating what's informal, what's formal, what's under protection, what's not, what gets requested for public records. Um, and as someone who does not work in that space, the answer is I even sometimes will ask, I want to make sure that I'm being appropriate with. Is this something we need to focus on? I want to make sure that my information is being reviewed before. Is that something we need to because I don't know all of the guidelines and I want to make sure I'm operating appropriately. So that would be true in terms of one of the first times I went to a conference for special districts. One one of the gentlemen said to me, I'm like, "Well, they can come over here and we can all sit together and have lunch." And he said, because it was it's lunch at a conference. What's the big deal? And he's like, "Nope, they can't come over here." I'm like, "But you guys are from the same district, right?" He goes, "Yes, exactly. No, don't come over." like, "But weren't we talking earlier?" And he goes, "Were there three of us there?" I don't think so. I think there were just two of you. But he goes, "Exactly. You can't have three or more of us. Only two at a time." Like, why? Because

people will think we're caucusing and we're strategizing and we're I'm like, "What? We're having lunch. It's over some salad." And he's like, "No, Deborah." And I was and this was I don't know, I don't know, 15 years ago or something. And I was like, Okay, I don't think like that. I'm not suspicious like that. But it was an education about be thoughtful. Who are we with and what are we talking about? But also what will other people be thinking, right? And I assume that that occurs for you in a lot of respects. Yes. Getting some nods in the room. So when I think about all of us in terms of this topic and quote in some respects probably many other topics it's when said leadership and when I said this is an everybody kind of topic when things are issues or concerns that we address things formally things have to be escalated that they result in action Because again back to the knew or should have known and did we act on things. The law will will tell us that we need to respond in a timely manner. The law doesn't actually tell us what's the definition of a timely manner which is unfortunate. What we believe at HR answers is 24 to 48 hours is a timely manner. Now that doesn't mean you've completed everything. It means things have been addressed or reported elevated because if if we aren't addressing it or we don't know about it then we can't do something about it and we always want to address things inhouse as quick as we

can and as thoroughly and respectfully and appropriately all channels have been taken care of so that people are not going to the outside world because in this regards in all serious this is there's no personal any of this. This is an organizational thing. This is the law. This is this is compliance. This is protection. This is risk minimization. It's all of those things because if we don't move to action, we get penalized for not being timely, for not doing something in some fashion or another. So being able to be thoughtful about our actions matter and being able to move forward and and you tell me whether or not the memos because I this is coming out from the let's move forward, let's advance, let's what's been our communication is misconduct will not be tolerated. But that also means we have to follow through on our own behavior and hold ourselves accountable to ourselves and to others, right? And so having a a kind of a third eye on ourselves. What are we doing? How are we doing it? Is it coming across the right way? Verifying that. Um so what does accountability look like? What does it sound like? Self-accountability. How are we asking each other to help hold each other accountable? What are we asking from others to hold us accountable? What are the role modeling expectations? What does that really mean? We can say a lot around expectations. I again I work a lot with supervisors. One of the gentlemen I was talking to this week goes, "I thought I understood the expectations, all these things, but I'm still getting kind of in trouble." And I said, "Well, did you clarify this? Did you ask questions around that?" He goes, "No, I think I know what all that is." Do you? Because otherwise you might not

be having some of the challenges you're having if you truly understood question. Did we take a step back and ask some questions? Because I believe that this is one of the reasons and it's the training supports your commitment. I mean, this is really supporting your decisions, right? So, what are your expectations? What does that look and sound like every single day, every single evening, every single Tuesday? Because when this first conversation started, this is no joke. I was like, "Let's go and look at how often do the council meet? When are they?" And I was like, "Do they meet like every Tuesday?"

Yeah. But there was like meeting meeting because I was like, "When are they going to want to meet? When are they when is that going to look like before Laura and I even had a chance to talk?" So I was like, "Oh, it's going to be an evening meeting." No problem. But which Tuesday does it? Because it looked like you were meeting a lot. And so I was just like, "Okay." Because You're making a commitment when you say you want to serve, you're making a huge time commitment. So, not only is it a personal commitment, it's a time commitment, but then you have all these other kinds of things on top of it. So, when you say these things, what does that really mean? What does that look like? What can others expect of you in terms of the employees within the city? What does that look like in terms of the community? So when we think about why people might not speak out in terms of these commitments, right, and the fears that might be there, back to I'd rather quit my job. I think that's something we have to pay attention to because that's that's not what we're looking for. All right, forgive me. I've got this I have got a set of slides that are advancing and not advancing. I already did that one. Sorry, I went too far. I really think that I'm having problems. Okay, there we go. So, the city has a policy around harassment

discrimination. What does that look like? What does that mean? How will we handle things? and most entities are in tandem with those that have um everything to do with um the work the workplace fairness act that the state of Oregon has and yours is in compliance with that. So when we think about all employees, community members treated with dignity and courtesy and professionalism, one of the things that I'm also thoughtful of is you even have it here in the room is your five E when you think about equity. and environment, economy, engagement and excellence. When we think about serving the community and serving of excellence and being e equitable, this is in tandem with a respectful workplace, right? So, it is part of our five E let alone the core values of this organization and thinking about how those tie in. So when we think about our purpose and our why and our commitment to then things that are already established within your uh core values within your five E that's in tandem and in step with what you're doing and why you're doing it. So when we think about how we interact with every representative, every every employee is a representative of the city, right? Everybody that we come in contact with. So again, and I would be interested in some observations from you. When you think about something that you're doing intentionally every day to build trust, to foster collaboration, what are you doing as council members to make that a reality with each other, let alone with your people that you serve or or employees of the city? What are you

doing to foster that respectful, trustful, collaborative workplace? Is there something specific, tangible that you know that you're doing intentionally to make that a reality?

A sense of appreciation. Oh, sorry. Thank you. Sorry, Carl. Thank you. Um, no. I mean, uh, if we receive something or there's a followup, just a sense of appreciation of the time that went towards providing that to us or something specific and um, and you know, to do that authentically, uh, not like, okay, so thank you. Uh, but that it's genuine and that the appreciation's real.

Gotcha. One of the words I often will use in conjunction with that is that there's true gratitude with that, right? Because um appreciation, recognition with true gratitude actually takes it up a notch, right? Did I It looked like you might be gonna say something.

Thank you. um just showing up and being respectful of people's time and and uh yeah I not wasting people's time and I think those are valuable observations. Anybody else? So, I would ask you to think about that because that's, you know, maybe you have answers and you just don't feel comfortable answering out loud, but that's the kind of thing that when you when you show up to the council meetings, when you're interacting with employees of the city, when you're working with um people from the public and they're coming to the meetings or things like that, what are you intentionally doing? How is that person interacting with you? How are they perceiving you? Um what are they paying attention to? Because I I I only know from being someone who stands up in front of others and doing training when you're sitting in these seats up here, people are watching you the whole time, are they not? Right. And so people will watch the strangest things. They'll pay attention and then they for me they comment on something weird and I'm like I was hoping you were paying attention to the content but thank you for acknowledging my shoes. Right? And it's like thank you. And so it's it's things like that that When we talk about everybody contributing to a welcoming environment, I've walked into places of business and the vibe not good from the second you walk in the door and it's like that that's palatable and that and I haven't even talked to anybody yet. So when we talk about welcoming and inclusive, a sense of belonging and connection and I will also share with you if you don't already know and haven't heard this before and I know I shared it within at least one of the employee groups is that in this country

we still are having a challenge. Thank you pandemic where people are feeling a sense of isolation at work and these are people who are showing up to work every day working side by side with others and yet they're still feeling isolated. they are not feeling a sense of connection and belonging. So now let's add that to a building trust, building a safe place, having collaboration, creating a respectful workplace that's safe to do and share ideas and all kinds of things, let alone the very least is being treated respectfully in every interaction that we're having with everybody. So what are we doing intentionally to making that a reality for folks? So if we're responsible for conducting ourselves in ways that uphold the mission, right, and our public service standards as part of a team, professionally with respect, communicating constructively, flexible, positive and professional image. Can we yes in some respect check the box, but are we on purpose? Yes, indeed. We're doing all of those things because then we can have all these things that are not where we want to be, right? The misconduct or inappropriate um misuse, any violations, our ethical standards, our resources, all of those kinds of things could be potential problems if we're not thoughtful. And if there are concerns, then we've got a reporting policy and practice in terms of within the city. And this is what's important for everybody to know that it's the business partner, HR manager, senior business partner or HR director. And this is in keeping with what I

mentioned earlier, which is the workplace fairness act is identifying who people can go to. That is a requirement under the state. where can employees go to if there's a concern and that we don't name them by name. We may name them by position because they can change in terms of by by the person's name. And clearly people can go to a supervisor. We also then train to the supervisors, please understand you must report up. You must elevate that concern because if you don't then you hold the liability and the risk and that not be good for the city and that not be good for the individual, right? And that would be true when it comes to a council member as well. Questions on that? this I I think it would also, if I'm not mistaken, be safe to say the risk manager, the city manager's office, the finance director, and the city attorney would also be viable options should there be a need to go there. And I actually had somebody who was in a um large conference um aboutund and some odd people in the room, someone in the front. You really have to uh enjoy the humor of it. Who said who said out loud um after during the session, harassment isn't a thing. I was like, do you want to clarify that statement? because I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say that because um in my world, yeah, it is because I've worked with countless sadly countless organizations um and internal factf finding missions to find out stuff. Um, and so I think about that when she says that because

retaliation is also very much a thing because someone came forward or because someone participated in the factf finding mission, the law is very clear about the fact that we do not retaliate against those individuals for doing those things. And so when we think about the fact that is prohibited not only from our policy standpoint, but it's prohibited against the law in terms of that. um that we cannot discipline or threaten or any innuendo or mistreat someone for coming forward. So when I say to you that people would rather leave their place of employment than coming forward when we have protection against that still is very concerning to me. So whether it's discrimination, fraud, harassment, safety, legal or ethical concerns, right? It matters that we know stuff so that we can deal with it. So we can stop it, so we can address it. So it becomes a better place to work if we ever have these kinds of challenges because nobody needs any of this. We I'm guessing you all have enough on your plates to deal with. You don't need more stuff to address or to to tackle. But maybe that's just me in my workplace. So to make sure that we're on the same page under the law because I don't want us to be missing that piece, retaliation is defined as an employee must have participated in a protected activity. Right? Um adverse employment action then is the consequence which ties back to our definition earlier of discrimination protected group of people protected activity adverse employment action right in terms of discrimination

um and keep in mind that employees will always or the person on the receiving end will always draw kind of a straight line. This happened and then this happened and there's like nothing in between and that's where that's where all the shades of gray are. I wish harassment was black and white or discrimination was black and white. It isn't. There's lots of shades of gray in terms of what else is going on, what else has transpired, what else what other conversations have taken place. So if there's this casual connection between the protected activity and the adverse action, the employee will say something like um I'm being treated differently. Well, we need to understand what does that really mean and how is that playing out and is that going to fall under those categories? Because this also means an employee can leave and retaliation can happen after the employment relationship has ended because if we're not giving out a appropriate work reference and we normally would or it's an exaggerated something to quote make the person go away, right? These are things that can happen after employment that would be a concern that would impact a potential potential claim. Uh and so I often reference wording of back to that inappropriate, unprofessional, disrespectful, um offensive kinds of language and we don't use the word harassment is that we're always getting a report of something. We're getting a report of something, not a claim. That's a legal term. We're getting a report of something. Someone has come forward and shared some information. We have a report of something that's highly unprofessional,

disrespectful, offensive. Because the answer is we do. I have any attorneys in the room. Okay. You can be attorneys and you can use that language. The rest of us, we be common folk. And the answer is that's not our we don't want to go there. We want someone who's that's their area of expertise. Let's let them go there. Let's have them be the identifier, not us. That's not our job. We stay within our expertise. Does that make sense? Especially for those of you who hurt like two or three times. Okay. All right. I know you're hanging on. So avoiding it, strong stance against it. Make sure that we're being thoughtful about our own actions. Obviously, investigate things that pop up. Um, document, document, document. Just like location, location, location for a house, we document everything. Um, and when we think about all the decisions that we are making, why are we making them? What's the purpose and and the why and the premise behind everything? Because something that we're doing six months ago might pop up here and the answer is that documentation is going to protect our Heiney each and every single time. It will protect our Heiney because we've made the decision. We've documented why we were doing what we were doing and what decisions we were making. And it was a discussion point here. It may have come out here, but it was being discussed way back here because that employee again saw that straight line. And the answer is no. There was there was no straight line. We made that decision way back here. But it wasn't public knowledge because it wasn't ready to be public knowledge yet. But that's all they can see is what's

happened to them right here, right now. So, it matters that that takes place. Whether that's a council decision, a supervisory decision, an a city decision, rolling out new things, it makes all the difference in the world. So, one of the things that I'm thoughtful of on your guys's behalf in in all sincerity that I haven't referenced with you is that our intent to be funny, our intent on messaging does not override an impact, right? Our intent in messaging is you have no idea what the person heard or interpreted, right? um when we think about um what what kind of harm could come to individuals, when we think about what we're doing or how we're doing it, the decisions, the interactions that we have, there's still potential for risk for the organization. There's still an opportunity for quote liabilities to happen. We can do everything right and we can still have some challenges. But definitely if we're not doing things right or if we're avoiding things or not discussing things, we can have challenges because harm will still be there. Risk can still take place. But when we talk about being a role model, when we talk about leadership being part of everybody's job, and you've got leadership here, they're here tonight to support. I promise you most people don't want to sit through my programs more than once, right? But hopefully you got something the second or third time than you did the first time. But leadership is not what you intend. It really isn't the the intention. It is what other people experience. So, I know that I've said that message at least three times tonight, but that matters what what you're walking, the path that you're walking, and how you're

walking it because people pay attention to that each and every day, each and every night, at every meeting that you have. And so, I just want to keep reiterating, leadership is being demonstrated right here tonight in terms of what you guys are up to. And that is a very good thing and I just commend that in that regards. So opportunity for questions that you didn't ask and I knew you were just dying to ask during the program or any follow-up information or any reinforcement of time um from from a council and mayor standpoint. Now is the time to do it because it's four minutes before 8:30 and dang you guys don't understand that is not my pattern of behavior because you guys have been on the receiving end. Yeah. Oh yeah. So any questions any clarification any anything observations or feedback for each other? Gratitude that you're here. You don't Thank you, Council Anderson. Gratitude that you're here. Gratitude that the leadership team is here. Um I don't know if I should apologize if this is your third time, but thank you. Thank you. and then also to our fellow counselors and to the mayor uh for really um making sure that this is key, that this is important and providing that leadership as we move forward. So, I just want to say thank you.

My pleasure. I learned a lot tonight about legal definitions. Even though city attorney Raala has done a fantastic job, I've learned uh some new things. So, I feel better prepared moving forward.

Good. And I appreciate that because that usually is one of my questions is did you learn anything new tonight and also just some I'm hoping what is some friendly reminders in terms of what that looks like for you and maybe an opportunity for a reflection too because I know sometimes when I go off to a program or something um for myself and I'm on the seated side it's like that's a thing. So even today at a lunch meeting, the gentleman was talking about something and I'm like more permissionbased questions. Deborah, do I have your permission to pursue something or to ask you a question or to share an example? And I was like, got to write that down because when I do my coaching work, more permissionbased questions. And so being able to so every time going someplace picking up a nugget to then use it for oneself or to share it with somebody else because that's the other question is who will you share the information with terms of a takeaway, right? To to pass it forward, right? Anything else for the good of the official order? Well, then I will just say thank you very much for your questions. I appreciate some more active than others. I like it. That's good. And uh thanks for you guys being here too.

Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. There being no further item agenda, the meeting is ajourned. Good night, Tiger. Good night, Tiger. Good night, Tiger.