Village Council - Regular Meeting

We're live. Welcome to the budget work session for the village of Holly on Saturday, April 18th, 2026 at 9:00 a.m. Uh, clerk, can you do the roll call, please? Sure. Wine Burner here. Wendell here. Ryan here. Pascal here. Cole here. Kire here. Brandon

here. We have a quorum. The purpose of these budget study work sessions is to collaboratively review, analyze, and discuss the proposed budget allocations for the upcoming fiscal year. We aim to ensure financial transparency, engage community stakeholders, and align our financial resources with the villages strategic priorities and community needs. Through these sessions, we seek to foster informed decision- making, promote fiscal responsibility, and identify areas for potential improvement and efficiency within our budgetary framework. No items will be voted on during these sessions. The 2526 financial activity presented during these sessions were current as of April 16, 2026. Any courses of action discussed during these sessions are only for consideration and will only be adopted when voted on during a regular meeting or during budget adoption. We'll start with public comment. Members of the public can address council once recognized by the chair. Comments are limited to a maximum of three minutes. Prior to addressing council, please state your name and address for the record. Looking at the public, all four of them. Hearing none. Seeing none. Uh Tim, the floor is yours.

Oh, great. Good morning. Uh happy Saturday again. Um actually before we even begin budget stuff, I just wanted to if German I was going to ask Jeremy to give like just a twominut quick update on Hawaiian Gardens and all the stuff going on over there. Um just because I know we've gotten a lot of questions about it. So target of opportunity.

Good morning council. Uh, as you know, staff has been out there uh pretty much all week uh trying to mitigate the flood flooding out at both of the Sun communities. Uh, I did a roll through this morning and I was uh floored at the amount of uh water that's receded. Uh they've had 6-in pumps going for the last probably 36 hours and uh all roads are accessible at this time. So, uh, we still have two families that are, uh, displaced. Uh, some communities is put them up in a motel and covering their food costs, uh, until further notice. So, I'd be more than happy to answer any questions or comments or concerns that you have on it.

Is this just Hawaiian or is it the other one, too? It's both. Uh the village uh Hawaii or I'm sorry, Holly Village uh suffered I I believe the most damage uh or had the most complications. Um but as of 7:00 this morning, uh all roads were passable. Uh all structures were secure. uh other than the two that we were uh had the evacuations at. Um but very impressed at the pace, the speed and uh the willingness to work with administration from some communities

and they're also assuring us that they're taking care of people that get displaced. They're making sure as far as we know people at least and they have the pumps until Wednesday. Uh and if needed, they'll increase that rental. Um looking at the forecast, we don't have anything after we get through about 11:00 this morning. It looks like the rain's going to dissipate and we'll get a good 3 to 5 days of drying. So fingers crossed. We're excited about that. Uh as we all know, the village is already wet. In general,

Jeremy, did they find out what actually caused the problems in each park? I would assume. Yeah. You know, we're blanketed information

for for it being April 18th, we're already double the amount of rainfall that we see receive on an average. Uh and the infrastructures approaching, you know, 50 plus years old. So, uh there was nothing that we could do right at that moment in time. Uh but we did give them an extensive timeline and expectations moving forward. Uh they assured us they're going to be cammering their systems. Uh finding out where they have um some infrastructure failures and then they're going to provide a plan of replacement. So

Danny's been out there a lot looking at their the because they haven't some of the their infrastructure their map stuff they hadn't even seen before. So Danny was out there kind of walking them through it saying, "Hey, you have inlet in the p pond here. Make sure breaking that out and getting that cleared out. We had uh the um the railroad out there looking at their culverts, making sure those are all cleared. Uh the road commission came out and cleaned out some of the culverts as well to make sure that um that it was flowing properly. And so I think that we've um we've definitely probably made more headway in the last week than has been done in 1015 years out there as far as making sure that we address future problems.

I have two questions. You said, Jeremy, it's we've received double the rainfall average already by April 18th. Do you mean double the average of rainfall we received annually or by April 18th? Just monthly. Just for the month of April, we average about two two and a half inches of rain in April. We're already over four and a half inches. And then are there any residents without power because of the flood? Not that I'm aware of. Okay. Not due to flooding anyway. Okay. Sure. Yeah. So, just one point of clarification for anyone listening. You said Danny Manager Price. Danny is the utility director. Utilities director. Perfect. And where is the water actually going? So,

so there's uh there's some ditches along the railroad that it's going to uh and then they are pumping it to the north side of Quick Road, which is uh also owned by some communities. So, they're discharging their water onto a low-lying site uh that is on their property. So, we're not just So, it's all going to their property or where it's supposed to be going. We're not dumping it somewhere. No, that's correct. that that is something that we've talked about a lot is like, hey, I want to make sure that, you know, as we're solving one problem, we're not creating them elsewhere. So, the water that the water has to go somewhere and um so we wanted to be very careful about that as well.

Uh yesterday about 3:00 or 2 o'clock, uh Oakland County Road Commission was out at Graange Hall. They opened the culvert uh from Moa Lake to get into Bevans Lake. Uh Bevven's Lake according to Danny was a couple feet lower than a Moaoa. So once they got that covert open, uh I mean it was a mass flow of water going into Bevans Lake and then Bevven's Lake will be controlled through uh Oakland County Water Resource Commission uh that goes into the tribute tributaries of the Shyawasi. So if you look at our our water overlay on for the village, you can see that you know I think it's like

I'm sorry. Thank you for that correction. So you can see that a lot of this area I mean this is all so this is the area we're talking about right here right yeah um nope gra down here um so a lot of this is already wetland area um and so the water is going where the water is going to go naturally um just by like topography and all of that so um it's really how can we and part of this is also reminding us um you know when we are doing when we're approving buildings that we make sure Everyone understands the risk if you're building in a flood plane. All these some many of these have been were built in the 50s. So they're, you know, 75 years ago they were constructed. But

So there's a couple residents and a and a reporter who were concerned about the Mil pond flooding or the dam failing. Is that a concern?

Not at this time. I haven't looked at the dam today, but I was through there yesterday. It looks like everything's flowing. No, I mean obviously the uh eagle last year, you know, presented their concerns about that and that was what predicated a lot of the things that happened last year, but there has been no uh evidence that anything is worse. I mean, the the dates are still open. We did notice that there is some debris, some like pallets that have kind of built up that got washed up. When the water levels lower, we've already talked to the water resource commission and they've relayed eagle that, hey, we'll we'll try to remove that debris once it gets there, even though it's an eagle thing, just to continue to help out to make sure that it's flowing properly.

Hold on a moment. Due to due to Eagle taking over the dam, whose responsibility is it to formulate a plan if the dam does fail? It at this point, it's still ours. It's still our we still own the dam. Um, you know, Oakland County did, you know, is moving towards establishing a legal lake level, taking that over, but it hasn't, we haven't gotten all the way through that process. I'm a little confused because since Eagle took it over, we're not allowed to touch it. So, what kind of plan can we have in place if the pond were or if the pond if the dam were to fail?

It's still our emergency action, our emergency action plan, emergency operations plan. Uh, similar um to anything, we would still be our responsibility, but I mean, right now, it's Eagle just basically said that we can't um raise the water level that would extra um extra not force but extra uh pressure or um we can't raise it but we can tend to it if it fails. Yeah. Okay. And we've done a risk assessment and there's only one accessory structure that would be compromised if the dam were to fail uh to our best judgment. uh and predictions through AI also show us that we should not have any loss of life or or injuries. So

yeah, I think that um in Eagle's worst case scenario um there there is a chance of potential loss of life. It's you know the house that's uh the south end I think it's um the one in the flood plan. Yeah, it but ideally we would have ample warning and all of that. It's really that if you know if the people like refuse to leave that's the kind of uh situation that it would be in. So,

and there's the ready set go plan that the state of Michigan has put in place as you've seen on the news. Uh the Shabboan dam failure they're in the uh set uh ready set. Uh so they're all been notified to be prepared. Um but as we see it's already dropped about um an inch and a half at the Shabboan Dam. So this isn't just localized Holly. This is an entire statewide. Uh I did receive an email from Oakland County yesterday informing uh all community partners um that the governor has not uh declared federal disaster yet. Uh but due to the widespread impacts uh there is a potential that she will uh and they are asking to document expenses uh for overtime, police, fire, DPW, DPS, other municipal personnel, fuel costs, equipment rentals, flood mitigation, debris removal, uh damage to public roadways or bridges, buildings and facilities or municipal vehicles and equipment. So uh I received that late last night and turned it over to administration. So where this is really going to affect us most is our wastewater treatment plant because it's been running at capacity. We've had to have you manning 24 hours a day. Um some of our automated systems because of the stress on it have uh like overloaded essentially and so we've been having to run some things manually. So we're going to be looking at this as well for maybe see about doing some cost recovery for our wastewater treatment plant. Can we um is it appropriate that the village release something so the residents are aware of what the plan is since we're already at a record fall and we're only halfway through April

as in uh I mean we we're doing all the the mitigation efforts we can now. Um I don't I think that um the things that have been done are going to corre are going to correct it. You know, as far as the water flow um I mean we would have to really get more unprecedented rain for it to um exacerbating. Yeah, I think Thursday was the the most stressful for administration. Uh I mean, we were at high alert and we were uh on the cusp of possible evacuations. Um but that was in some communities. Yeah.

Um but with the addition of the pumps running 24, you know, non-stop, um this morning, very impressed with the work. It just doesn't look um plausible to have to worry about evacuations due to the mil. Oh, no. No. Okay. That that was what I was referring to when I asked if we could release a a plan of action in case the dam were to fail. Yeah. And even even so that um the area that would be affected is outside of the village. So like we can make recommendations but we can't do any kind of you know municipal action on something that's in Rose Township. Okay. So Okay. Or Yeah. Rosement that they're uh that they flag us on. Is that standing up to it pretty well?

Yeah. I mean, as far as anything we've seen, I mean, I'm not I'm not an engineer, so I don't know. I haven't gone out there and tried to hit it with a stick or anything to check, but it's uh uh as you know, as I've got the um the people that live next to it, and they're nodding in their heads up and down. Y's over there. Is that being exacerbated by water like them cleaning up that culver? And that is a hazard spot already. Every time we get substantial rainfalls that does overflow right there. Danny is aware. I think he does have some he has road signs.

Okay. I bet I could I bet I could make it. All right. Let's uh let's hit up this budget walk through. village manager and team.

Yep. Okay. So, now we actually begin what we're here for. So, um as the budget walkthrough, again, these are just continuations of our discussions that we had um last Saturday and we're going to continue on. Again, nothing's being voted on today. You is really for all the department heads uh and you know, myself to understand the policy directions that village council wants. Um, I frontloaded the DDA this morning so we can uh, you know, let Kevin do his first budget presentation with us and uh, and hopefully, you know, can get him out on the road so we can continue on. So, Kevin, I'll pass it to you. Your coffee says yay.

Alrighty. Well, thank you. Um, pardon me if I'm a little disjointed this morning. The running joke on Thursday was everyone's social battery was on empty after spending four days being friendly with over 2,000 people. You're like, I'm going to go home and hide. Um, so having not presented to you guys before, I know how we've done it other places. How do you prefer the presentation to go? Um, I I can speak for myself, but I think it seems like maybe everyone likes to really look at the numbers that are showing a big difference, whether it's a big up or a big down. Well,

I mean, on the revenue side at the current time, these are projected numbers. There's no um certainty on it. It's based on a balance of what the previous three years have been. You'll notice last year we budgeted 160. Through the end of a March, you were at we were actually at 181. So, I just bumped it up to 185 to give a a little bit of room for possible increases. Uh, tiff tiff taxes, same thing. You know, because some of that is some of that is a result of taxes that have been overdue that are being collected from the county and they get paid out at a different different time period. So, they tend to show up a lot of times towards the end of the season.

Again, these are revenues we're speaking of this. So, these are things that are really beyond control. just predictions based on big predictions.

Uh sponsorship is the one that we put in this year. Um I did add vendor fees. It's only in there for certain DDA events where we collect vendor fees. So we have an actual accounting so we can look you know what the fees work against the output sponsorships. This year we are moving towards looking for large corporate sponsors for some of the bigger events uh to help offset uh some of the operating costs and to give local businesses and regional businesses great opportunity to get their name out in front of everybody uh because with our our events we pull from a very wide radius to bring people in. So it's a great opportunity for them. Uh grant money uh we're going 35,000 10,000 of that each year is actually funds that come from Oakland County Main Street as part of us being in the program. The others is are going to be a series of smaller grants, five or 10,000 that are applied for for different projects as we're going forward. So, just just kind of where that's at. So, if you put it together, that brings us to 416,000 in revenue is what we're going to be working with. Um, any questions on that?

Do you anticipate to have the um national preservation grant or the um monies before this year ends if not this is to the PIP grant uh the national trust grant um is currently in DC I mean yeah in DC unfortunately everybody who's doing the reviews was in Tulsa Oklahoma with me so they won't be getting to it till this coming week but they're hoping to process it

before they get this they because of the size of that particular grant, they wanted to um get it taken care of as quickly as possible. They they forecast every month what the grant expenditure is going to be. So hopefully soon. Our I'm waiting till everyone gets back next week to get a chance to sit down and talk to these guys and see where that's going from because that's based on percentage based on expenditures. So we got to figure that out. Okay. Um on the expense side,

oh I did have a question. We budgeted like we thought we were going to bring in 3,000 but we only brought in 990. Do we know like did we not have enough vendors or that was probably sponsorships and um that I you know sponsorships are just all being rolled into sponsorships in general. Okay.

I'm trying to streamline some of it and detail other parts of it you know so it's not I don't want a 20 page budget print out when I get done every time. On the expense side, u changes on the first section are not terribly much. Uh some of them, um we factored in some wiggle room on some of the employee side. Um gave a 6% increase over what the uh projected health health insurance costs were for this year. six to 8% is kind of the standard boost.

Well, they is it 15 this year because it's been six for the last handful of years. So, and our increase was 14. So, we just Okay. And then same thing too. I just I know we're not down the retirement. Um I know that you're saying that's basing and also don't forget there's the match. Mhm. So you have to include that if I choose to do it. Yes. But you're doing it now. I'm doing it now. It's got to go into that number. These can these are Yeah. These are just Yeah. Okay. Because I you know it's only been 60 days. Okay.

Welcome to Holly. It's been a fun It's been a fun 60 days. Let me tell you. These guys got five months and they got their first um my big questions on this page are uh memberships, legal fees, and project cost, but maybe not exactly because there's some project costs broken down on the next page. Right. Because I know there is there a million dollar balance because I if we have a million dollar balance, I want to see you guys spending it. You're not supposed to be We are spending it. Okay. That's that's coming on page. Okay. So then for this page then I'm looking at tech funds and contingency. Which one? Uh this tech funds 10,000 or sorry

legal fees. Sorry, legal fees and contingency.

Uh contingency is just a built in just in case if something goes over we can pull from it. you know, because just like when you do a contract for work, there's always a contingency written in, you know, we put it in just have a little um as I say about legal fees, we, you know, projected on the high side because um Tim and I are working on some contract negotiations for services. There are some policies that need to be put uh reviewed within the DA's internal operating uh processes. So, I put I put a high number in there so that there's funds there just in case we need $500 as it has been in all honesty having worked with attorneys most of my career I can barely get my attorney out of bed for under $500 and so for a year $500 just isn't a truly working realistic number

so how how are currently how is our legal fees currently being covered tech funds tech funds we're using we're using money from Main Street Oakland County which should could be used for community development and projects to pay for legal fees. So you think it's a waste using tech funds they could be better marked? Yes. So where is it? Sorry line item because it tech funds I understand is on the revenue. That's a revenue side. We we haven't received the tech funds yet. So we haven't exp.

Yeah. Because I'd like to keep tech funds next year for you know we're looking at possibly a branding program or studies and having that extra money to put towards that expense would be, in my opinion, a better use of the 10,000. That's an an enormous jump to go from a $500 line to a $10,000 line. And I know that the attorney that the DDA chose cost almost twice as much as our village attorney. Um, did they? I'm not certain.

Well, they didn't ask our village. Well, to be honest with you, most DDAs do not use the village attorney where 80% of the pro, you know, the questions can be answered. The 20% that can't be, you have an attorney who has to represent two sides of arguments sometimes and put them in. I see. So, you're suggesting you could use Gilner for the things that require certain an external one. So what some municipalities will do is they'll say I think it's southern municipalities will say you everyone uses one village attorney and then if there's special things that they need then you can have your own attorney to so for instance let's say they're going to buy a piece of property

or they want to negotiate with the village then the village uh municipal government says yes you can have your own attorney for that so you're not you're not spending so for our for for instance if we're trying to figure out what the DDA wants to do our attorney doesn't have to talk to their attorney and pay charge the taxpayers twice. Yeah. But do do please remember I mean we don't like having to use attorneys but we are under PA57 afforded the right and so we you know in order to have an attorney and use them we need to budget. You're right. We should we shouldn't focus on what they can do. We should focus on the expenditure. And I think $10,000

is 200 times more than what that budget line used to be. I think I think it's exorbitant. That's my opinion. Now, if if we wanted to, while P-57 does allow for um uh the DDA to have their own attorney, there is case law that stipulates and clarifies that reasonable limits on PA57 are within complete harmony is what the judges said. So, if we wanted to put a com some type of limit on that, we could. And let's not believe bel this. If if the rest of council has anything in particular to say their thought about this $10,000 line, say it now and then we can move on.

I will say if I could add just in kind of defense to D and Kevin on this is that uh previously when even if they use the village attorney a lot of times that wouldn't get that cost wouldn't get pushed back to the DDA. So this line item wouldn't be just for their independent attorney. if we because now Lisa and I have done a better job of having whether it's engineering or it's our attorney say hey what specifically is this for so we can charge it back to the appropriate authority so this money could also be used to fund DDA questions if they use I think we got that and I'm okay with this we are looking at reestablishing different relationships with the DDA having them

do contracts for police services and stuff like that that is going to cost money and I'm okay with that because I do want the village to recoup what they are spending in the 500 and then uh let's see what about oh what memberships that looks like that might be something good for you guys

memberships we're talking um Main Street uh National Historic Preservation um Bloom in America um I think there two or three. Um, we're also a member of Michigan Downtown Associations. So, it basically it's any membership tied back to uh the DDA's existence and advocacy and information. A lot of the uh groups that we belong to are very helpful with keeping everybody on the cutting edge of economic development because one one DDA can't have all the tentacles that any statewide organization does. No, I think that's great. I'm glad to see that line item go up.

Yeah, we're having, you know, we're getting anything else on this. I have a question. We had talked about having a line item for advertising and I don't see that on here that that goes under promotions. So I thought we had talked we were going to split that out.

We will but I have to the DDA has to board has to give me instructions to do it and since I was out of town for the last meeting I chose not to put that across in front of them without me there to walk them through for questions and that. So it'll be coming. Okay. Lisa, uh, what what do you think mandates the necessity that was redundant? Lisa, can you give us your opinion on having that line item broken out?

So, um, because there's been a lot of questions regarding um the, uh, when they turn in, we'll call it local advertising or just advertising in general, there's questions about it. So, um, things have been miscoded in the past and things like that. So, we And I know when they I think it was when you guys had your main street DBA when Oakland County came we had talked about that and they said it would look better if it had its own line item broken out with it and so then it was they said okay you said when budget you guys want to do that that's why that's so this is for auditing coding. Okay.

Okay. And the next page it looks like you've got um follow-up sheets broken out really nicely to explain this is easy for you guys to follow the thinking for the numbers as I could. You know, like I was I was just earlier mentioning some of this is science and some of it is not so much science because you know these are things that we'll be requesting bids for. So we can't really hard calculate the numbers but you know kind of some guesstimates. Um you know Dickens is been you know was 12,000 last year it's going to be 12,000 this year. Um I we feel it's an absolutely wonderful opportunity since

I'm sorry it was 10 last year, 12 this year. 10 two years ago, 12 this past year, 12 this coming year is what they were telling me. Okay.

And with the number of people coming to town, it's a great opportunity for Main Street and everyone to really promote themselves and make make people see the value coming to visit us. One of the things we've been talk we've been talking about as a board is um Holly has great destination events. We'd like to see Holly become a yearround destination, not just an events destination because we sit surrounded by so much yearround, you know, activity. How do we start telling people, hey, it's okay to come in if you're hiking, if you're just riding your bike, whatever. Come to town. We'd love to see you. Besides the Dickens Festival, Witches Night, and a lot of the other events that bring a lot of people in. And um so that's the holidays. We we left it at 600 as we're still negotiating and trying to figure out what holidays is going to become. We're not quite sure where it's, you know, what the final is going to be looking like. So

um on point 101 101 project cost organization. Yeah. On that follow-up page, project cost organization number two, volunteer appreciation. I know that we had not you and I uh I think Lisa maybe you and I had some discussions when it came to uh doing reimbursement checks for volunteers lunches, dinners. What was that okay? Or was there something about how volunteer appreciation meals were supposed to be donated? I can't remember exactly what the issue was.

No, we were um wondering because the events are usually pre why did they leave again for your sponsorship? Well, part of what they did prior to me coming was and then it was it's a good move intentionally. We don't ask the small businesses to donate. They already do. I'm not going to go to a restaurant that's making six seven% profit yearly and go, "Hey, by the way, I got 30 volunteers I want to feed. Can you donate 30 meals?" Now, if they come to me and say, "Hey, we'd be more than happy to." I'm not going to say no. But I'm not going to go and ask them as they're already involved with to get more money. But for auditing purposes, this line item is okay.

Yeah. Because but what the valiation dinner usually is is all the volunteers once a year. We bring the DDA brings them together, thanks them. We we did it in Oxford. It was a very good once a year opportunity to get them all together, thank them, you know, with the opportunity to talk. Hey, this is what's coming up next year. So, this would negate them the separate receipts for every time for the It would be hard to say. Sometimes it might be factored in, you know, like a bigger event like witches or that there's lots of volunteers. They may buy, you know, we may buy pizza for we may, you know, it's hard to say, but you know, it's an event by event situation.

Something that they would on the board before the event happen when broad strokes. Yes. The the volunteer dinner is very common thing that happens like throughout the state. Almost every community that has DVA that has a bigger DVA does something very similar. Grand Havens, they do it down they do it down at the like amphitheater where tables and it's like more of like a like black tie event kind of thing they do. So yeah.

So I just to be clear, I was not questioning the merit. I was making sure it's allowed for auditing. Number five, create and review policies and procedures. Um I'm getting tripped up how that's not covered under legal. Well, some of this uh these are things that the that they're going to do. So, it goes it'll be covered under legal and if there's any type of printing or anything involved the printing piece. Okay. Thank you. Goes back sorry that y policies and procedures kind of fall across multiple categories depending upon where it's at. So, I just it's in a couple three places. Okay. Couple ones for you. Mhm.

So, the Dickens Festival is one we discussed at the last council meeting and our attorney says we can't do it essentially. So, he he's going to do another opinion on it. I mean, perfect. Yeah, because it is, you know, because technically it does fall under pro business promotion and economic development, which is the broad stroke of the tip. I mean, I I I'm I'm only arguing what he has said. So, I don't I think it's a good idea personally, but I is if he could come up with a different opinion now that would be okay. Um and then a facade grant. So my understanding with the facade grant currently based off the uh requirements it's only for businesses.

Facade grants under tiff revenue and tiff plans can only be allowed for businesses and multi-unit buildings. So there are individuals. So there are municipalities that for sure do give it to residential then they probably don't do it with tiff funds. They probably do it through grants and other types of monies that they raise. So that you think that's stipulated in p57 that you can only give grant money to businesses. Well, businesses are multi-unit developments because it's for business development, not residential development. That's what the tiff tiff is for. It's for stock. So a single family home for instance does not qualify even if they're in the district. Okay.

But as I you know as I said a lot you know a lot of them might you know there are grants available and some DAS that are have a large um residential component sometimes. get these grants and so they'll be available occasionally but not consistently because I think we have a large residential component. We have more homes than we do businesses. But but we don't have those grants. We don't have grants. You can't use T57 funds for that. You're saying yeah. So we'd have to find outside funding. Yeah. The DDA would have to go to something to a grant and apply for it that isn't tied to TIFF revenue because TIFF revenue is defined as to what it can be spent on by the state. So we have to stick with that. Okay. But if we get grants, that's a different story.

So if it was allowed, we could do it essentially. If there was money for it that wasn't ded yesterday. Okay. Um I'm sold on all of this. This question was trying to get out of Okay, I'm not done talking. Okay, you guys. Um I have a question about number six. And I also have a question about when it comes to the furniture upgrades in Battle Alley, are we looking at DD DA? Sorry. Um the disability compliance. Yes. What we're um 80 88. Thank you. Thank you. Soup went out of my head.

Um one of the one of the concern concerns I heard frequently from the businesses was while they look great, the furniture wasn't the most appropriate for the usage. It's not easy to get around for wheelchairs and strollers. Much more of a commercial ADA compliant to make the the alley usable for everybody as possible and to reduce pinch points because I heard a lot of people complaining about getting pinched on the thigh or this or that because the chair moved just you know so we're looking at what's a what is a better quality but a look appropriate set good because those pinch points during events are a real and then uh number six if you don't mind oh sorry under uh project design wavefinding study

yep

all righty guys everyone know what wayfinding is a term we like to use like basically how do we how do we get people around town? Um downtown has some good way finding and it has some not so good way finding especially the further north you go. You know the little sign that says business district this way you know it's barely big enough to read as you're going by it. So what a ways finding study does is they come in they look at the downtown they'll measure some of the traffic flow over the period of time that they're here observing. They'll come back and say these are our suggestions that you put Here you have your signs look like this. Simplify. You know, a lot of times we believe sometimes a lot of verbiage makes more sense, but when you're driving in a car and it says mincible parking this way, a simple P circle with an arrow is a lot easier to process than a busy sign.

Consistency is consistency is big. Um, I' I've joked with Tim, you know, I drive in East Holly Road when I come to work and I've counted 42 signs from the village limit to where I turn off on both sides of the road. So, we have a wee bit of a sign pollution problem and it's not just on on Maple, you know, Sageno and others. What wayinding would allow us to do is start a plan in the way to start to work to decrease it and help us work with the planning or to create a consistent design walk. I love it. So, f color scheme across all the projects. Then Mr. Love might finally give us a seal of approval. And that would be really nice, you guys. All right, Shannon.

Last Thursday, the staff actually drove um for our department head meeting. We actually drove through the village and that's what our focus is on are signs and like, all right, where do we have redundancy in signs? Which ones can be taken down? How can we have consistent? And these are based on a lot of conversations Kevin and I have had about these. Um and so now We're really looking forward to working with the DDA on this. Um, just for even like when we talk about municipal parking, what does municipal how is municipal parking different than public parking? So, words matter. And so, some people might look at the word municipal parking and say, "Oh, I can't park there. That's just for the municipal people." So, maybe we didn't change it to say public parking. Things like that are the conversations we're having about this. Okay, those are my questions. Let's go to Shannon and then Amber and then we'll

Jimmy have one followup. One followup. Can we fix the welcome to Holly signs so they're not floating? Please. Oh, I think it's either fitting with Gosh, if we could fix that, I would be so happy. All right, moving on from Jim. I do have some questions. Um, when I was looking at like some of our what we're spending at the festivals, Dickens is double the amount of their ladies night. Far higher than the holidays and things like that. Dickens is what three weekends kind of deal. Is that actually

because Dickens has its own entity and its own fundraising and its own things. This is us paying to an outside entity for that or is this funds what each business is then using for themselves? That is a sponsorship that puts Main Street Holly the primary sponsor of the Dickens Festival gives name place and then we can we can set it up with QR codes and other stuff that takes them right to the map. It's it's just a jumping because it seems like ladies nights are their big ones that they're trying to spend down there to bring people in throughout the year. But they do they're doing one or two right now. Okay, it's been four.

So that is equal to the amount of Dickens and I am more concerned in how they're doing outside of like do they need this help in May? You know, are we not concentrating enough money to bring people into town throughout the year and we're putting it all in? It's coming. Good. Okay, that is a big one for me. Dickens is great. Love Dickens. I have no problems with it, but it's their one done deal for three times the amount. The other one is Holidays. This is a concentrated effort throughout the whole village. Um I personally think $600 is a sad contribution, but again, you know, they're just starting to talk.

And my other questions were also in like projects and promotions. So in their tiff plan, they have some things going towards the I love that. I think that their idea of having many parklets throughout Sagen is a great way because we don't traditionally promote mid and north. That's been a sad thing in, you know, bringing stuff back. We have a wonderful downtown. There's no doubt. Everybody loves downtown. People come in for downtown, but I want to see Mid and North get some of this. I'm going to I'm going to make one big change that I am making with the DDA and I'd like to start making a little bit wider. When I talk I talk the whole district. Perfect.

When I talk sections of downtown, you'll hear start, Midtown, and North because we need to understand, not just the DDA, everybody that when the DDA is talking downtown, it's the whole length. Now, there is no question due to the nature of the historic part, you know, part of downtown. It's going to at times get more attention just by the nature of the fact that those buildings are expensive. So, facade rats tend to move down there more often because we want to as much as we can. So, I'm trying to, you know, I'm ch, you know, I I joke with some folks, you know, there there are times there disagreements. We use the same words, but we have different different dictionaries. And I'm trying to consistently use every have everyone using the same kind of verbage for the downtown so everybody understands the DDA is the whole district. We understand that we're coming to Midtown. We have some great plans for Midtown that we'd like to do, but it's going to take some time. We can't just I wish I could just pull a switch and go, hey, we have lights, we have streetscape, we have it. It takes, you know, a lot of process.

Consistency is the key. I like the idea of changing the culture

downtown because we had that problem in Oxford. When you said downtown, everybody thought four corners at Berdict and M24 and ours, unlike Holly, ours went north and south from there. So, you had to refer back and forth. It took a little time for everyone to get to understand it. Yeah, just reiterate again. Yeah, holidays again that's centered, you know, we talk about we don't want to just focus, you know, December time for these events. We want to all day, you know, all year long and yeah, six $600 is like we as a parks department will put in more than that and our budget is 10% of course. So, I would like to see a little bit more cooperation and help with you guys on that. and it's bringing people downtown to your businesses. So, I don't understand why

I think we need to have a more informed discussion about holidays in general as a council and because I think last year um I was kind of not ambushed but it was kind of like it used to be a DDA and parks event and then it and then I think they were like hey a new manager it's a village event. I was like wait all the other promotions were always DDA and parks and it was kind of given the name.

Yeah. And well, and I will say that the reason we had the reason we had any success at all was Sarah McCanny. She ran that and she did a great job and uh I would love to keep that momentum, but you know any kind of increased you know support we get from the DDA. The DDA was kind of just on the tertiary last year for sure. um back we'd love to have it be a particular

Yeah, we we had got a um now it was definitely a council and parks uh thing and um however we can involve the DDA more in that from like starting like now planning and all of that that the meetings that we're starting to do uh I would love to have it be a true like partnership event because it is a celebration not only of our residents and there but also the businesses and it's a tradition people love holidays they love Nation it is something that you're going to win a million people with doing a nice holiday

well one thing to keep in mind even though I just budget $600 it doesn't mean I can't come back to you guys and say hey we're doing this we have this fund reserve I'd like to transfer fund reserve into that line account I only had my first conversation about not even a month ago. Uh so I'm you know it's still very fluid. So I don't want to put a large amount of money on it to get their hopes up and then something changes and we have to you go hey listen no we have to do I'd rather work in stages and build up to it rather than jump all

and that's the purpose of these meetings is so you can let uh you know let Kevin know what your guys priorities are and things so that he can bring it back to the DDA because I don't think that even though we've talked holidays before Kevin and I haven't really had that much of a discussion about what does that sponsorship and partnership look on holidays. And so letting him know that now can let him us have more informed discussions as well as him have more informed discussions with his board. So again, this is just the initial conversation. So um Okay. So have two more questions. Go ahead. Go for it. Um American Bloom. Can you explain that?

American Bloom. Yes. American Bloom is a nonprofit uh that works in the United States out of Philadelphia. Um now the title is a little bit misleading. So it it makes you think it's all about flowers. That's only part of the component. They're going to come in. They're going to visit us for two days. They're going to ponder the district with DPW, myself, Tim, somebody from the parks. We're going to look at everything. We're going to talk planting. We're going to talk garden beds. We're going to talk art. We're going to talk signage. They're going to go away for about a month or two. Send me back a report and say this is what we recommend. Reason I'm doing this, like I told Jerome, the design committee is there's a lot of different visions of what everybody wants. having outsiders come in who are specialists can help streamline that process. Perfect.

Um, you know, because like one community is like, "Oh, we can't get anything to grow. We can't." They have geraniums up and down their main street now. They're known as a geranium city.

And so, you know, because somebody came in and said, "Well, why don't you try this?" Because of your soil and you can do this. So, it's kind of good sometimes to bring the outsiders in who have the expertise. And a lot of these guys that are coming that do this are experts in economic development and horiculture. So, they're going to bring the best of the two worlds together. And what intrigued me was the art for him coming and going, "Hey, we thought about doing art here, maybe a little art here. We've got murals, which are a good start, but it's like how do we how do we grow the art program?" So, it's, you know, not only districtwide, but moving it all the way through.

And then just last quick question, um, number 17 for project cost, work with parks to implement new steps on the adopted Gansaw park improvement plan. We talked um with our DEA um or our DPW, sorry. Um about potentially um we've got a bunch of there. So, are you guys on board with kind of helping out? Yep. To take care of it. Okay.

U you know, like I've told the board, I've told Tim, um I would have killed for three parks in downtown Oxford in the DDA district. I have one surrounded by parking lots and state high. Um so having three parks gives gives the village a wonderful marketing tool and a be and because one of the visions uh that I would love to see is the ability to walk completely from the north all the way to the south end of our district and feel comfortable have green zones so you can walk and take advantage of these parks rather than have to drive down to the park get out of your car drive back you know get back in kind of kind of create much more I'll use the term Mayberry maybe not the sense some people think of but more of a Mayberry downtown everybody is walking, you begin to know who your neighbors actually are rather than I think he lives across this, you know, those types of things. So,

all right. Um, I'd like to go back to the holidays for a second. What's with the resistance to buy in? You said if something happens, you don't want to make a promise and then it's not a resistance to buy in. It is literally I have no clue what's going on. He's not had that conversation before. We I mean, literally conversation literally. So there's no reason to think that the board is resisting buy in as opposed to digging 12 grand.

They're being very intentional about sometimes what we invest in what we don't uh partially because they're also sometimes responding to what they hear back from the merchants. So in order to overcome some of the feedback they get from the mer individual merchants you know the process of okay this is where where is holidays going what are we doing different you know where where is there a position for the DDA to niche and do something that might help that downtown directly I do remember last year there was a sabotage attempt that was being spoken on and that was redirected and corrected and holidays ended up being okay for it but I just wanted to make sure that's not an ongoing fear that before me Okay.

So, I'm not as I as I've joked with Tim, I'm building a wall. Everything before me, I'm trying, you know, I'm dealing with the issues that come that have to be, but that's the past. I'm looking forward. I'm trying to keep everything positive and forward looking. Uh because I think as a history professor, you know that we uh have to learn from the history in order to avoid the future. The other thing I know is you have to be careful about dwelling on it sometimes. So, it's kind of like I refocus. And so, as long as this isn't something that's a current fear, I'm happy to go forward. I would just like to see something like holidays in the past. Well, holidays in the past used to be ran by the DDA. Well, it also too when I started as volunteer, I started first time.

Yeah, that was my first DA volunteer where I helped him with Well, we have a holidays meeting this week, I think, on Thursday or Thursday. So, any questions on the budget, Thomas? Buster? No. No. back to anyone else. Anything new come up? Welcome aboard. Thank you. Thank you. Now, please, as I I said earlier, please don't be insulted. I have to be in Plymouth by 1:00 to uh support a buddy's son who's doing his first lead role in a musical. So, we don't expect you to sit here for this when you can go to a musical. Trust me, that family high school musical.

Thank you guys. Kevin, thank you. You know, I you know, the process obviously is I have to go back to the DDA board with with these. You know, it's I'd love to say I have the blank and authority, but and it's fine. Once again, that project cost breakout. Loved it. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of your meeting. Yay. Sure. Let's take five.

All right. Are we live? Yes, we're live. Welcome back. We're going to go into the general fund and the fire department and

we're going back to fun 101 again. We've kind of been bouncing around a little bit justs. We're doing things a little We're going to go through fire department building fund much. We're going to go into solid waste. Then we're going to do a debt service review, go over revenues, talk special assessment. We're going to talk our capital improvement plan briefly and next steps all the things that we need to accomplish before we get to our final approvals where we're going to go from here. So, I'm going to pass over to Jeremy. I should turn my mic up. Madam, do I have the floor? You do.

Thank you, council, for your continued support of the fire department and public safety initiatives. Uh, I want to emphasize on our commitment to fiscal responsibility, transparency, and maximizing all of our taxpayer value. Uh, over the past three years as a chief, we have aggressively purs pursued and secured multiple grants, saving the village thousands of dollars. The most recent uh grant we received was we uh received a Polaro 6x6 um UTV vehicle. I did I think I included a picture in one of my council packets most recently. Uh but what we're most excited about is the new uh education and training programs that we launched uh I believe it was July or August of last year. Uh and we've generated almost uh over $9,000 in revenue in our first year. So, as we go through our budget, there are only a couple line items uh that were changed from uh last year. I do want to point out once again on the firefighter line, keep in mind that the firefighters um were uh this is not representative of the uh the special assessment amount that was in there. So add an additional 300,000 onto the this number. Uh it was exactly 300 that we put pulled over from the special assessment to cover uh these expenses. So, it's not a 254,000 jump to 571. It was 54600 was the actual amount. So,

that was my first question. Okay. I I felt it. Sorry, Jeremy. No, you're good. Uh, so I'll answer any questions uh moving forward. If we want, we can go line by line. medical insurance went down. Yeah, that's what I was looking at too. Any reason for the medical insurance to be half?

Well, I So, I think that last year again, if we were looking at what the activity was this year and we're projecting it out for the next year, basically doing a 15% increase uh on, you know, what our projections would be if we were to continue on for the rest of the year. I'm not sure why our our I think maybe our projections were higher, but if we look at our 2425 activity, it wasn't even $1,000, right? Um, but we do have two personnel now that are covered under there because uh Kurt Nichki is now part of it as well. Um, so I think we just

Yeah, you always have. So I think that um so with uh Kurt Mitchki and Jeremy they are both split 5050 50% fire 50% building and so they might have been having 100% of their medical coming out of the building instead of the fire or the fire instead of you know 50/50. So I think we've gotten a little bit better with that and and when we get to building let's make sure that we just have a note that we kind of look at medical insurance activity too just to see if it's over that might be why because represent.

There's really no other jumps that surprise me. I do just have one quick question, please. I know last year we were hoping to add a furnace or something to make sure that you guys had a training room. Can that be reflected? or is it available for you know repairs buildings? You guys are looking a little bit less here.

We are we are evaluating the training room uh aspect because when Chief Watson he has been doing the initial and he can jump in anytime too. He's been doing the initial review of what it would take to actually um modify that extra bay into a training room uh to like all the standards as far as plumbing and electrical. I think that um the the numbers that he was saying are greater than we want to really commit to it right away. We want to get there eventually, but we also know as we're living lean, it might not be an expense that um uh that we can we can justify right now. Although

bring as much as we're he can he's able to bring in money for it, but as far as the the initial capital investment we're going to have to make, you know, when we're doing a special assessment, all these other things, we haven't got everything else figured out. We want to do it. We think it is going to be a something that is gonna be a net positive for us. Not only for uh ourselves, for the area, but also it would be a cash revenue thing for us to do training. Uh Chief Watson, Assistant Chief Nichki have been very proactive on um of it. But again, the capital investment is a little steep for us right now. And I can explain. Uh when we first brought this idea to council, uh there was a sewer outlet in the back bay building. Uh once Danny was able to have a little bit of free time and run some cameras, we realized that it did not attach to the sewer main. So for us to put a bathroom in the back bay, we have to dig up the entire parking lot and put a new sewer tab out at the main. And the pipe runs right down the middle of Sagenov. So we would also have to expose Sagenov. And that expense alone, even with DBW doing a good majority of that work, one I don't want to take the resources from the village to do that. Uh, but the expense alone is probably pushing 60 to 80,000. Uh, and once I realized that we didn't have that connection at the road, I kind of

kind of put a stop to that plan at this time. Is there an option to bring a Cadillac in or something like that for Well, for we have ADA comp. So, we have to have a minimum 6x6 or really 8 by8 restroom uh with accessibility. Uh we can't have them go from the training room back into the station to use the restroom. We have to have those facilities right out at the classroom. Um and I've had multiple folks come out and it's just not feasible. And I don't I meant like a trailer for instance, a portable portable ADA compliant trailer if that would be able to launch that further.

I haven't looked at that, Jim. And honestly, right now, we just launched three more programs. Uh, two of the three are virtual. So, if we can continue down the virtual path, uh, we're still generating money and, uh, Kurt actually Kurt and I can actually do those from home. Uh, because we can sit at our home office and still teach these classes. They live together the way that your guys home. We each have our own office. Kind of red there, buddy. I appreciate that one, didn't he? Sorry.

All right, let's get us back on track here. Uh, so for vehicle fleet insurance, I see we have 35,000 for that, but we already spent 35,915. I want to make sure that we're making sure that we cover that about midway down vehicle fleet insurance. So, I would default um to Lisa, I believe. You know, we did acquire a couple new vehicles. Uh we received uh the 1500 Silverado pickup truck uh free of charge from uh the state grant uh but we did have to insure it. We had the Polaris uh 6x6 which was added to insurance and uh am I missing am I missing one Lisa? Durango.

The new Durango. Oh the new Durango. Well that we took off the Explorer and they put on the Durango. So there was an upcharge uh for the newer vehicle. We do we will need to increase this line item. But you are correct. And so the reason that this one um so Chief Watson was the first uh department head that I worked with a while back to establish these the numbers in the right and the activity numbers that I pulled were from Thursday and so they were there's a lot of stuff that's happened in the last month or so. Um so we are going to have to update those to be more reflective. Now, I don't know. Um I'll have to look at the cost of that. Um like when the premiums are paid, all that like is that the final number for the year, the 35 or is it a monthly amount? Um so that we can

So if that if that's a total, then we're kind of right around where we need to be probably, but um we will probably have to adjust and look at and then just second to contractual same thing. We've got 40, but we've already spent 42 this year. So there like a contract that's coming off or

contractual is probably my biggest uh line item where I funnel a lot of uh my things a lot of my expenses through especially if it's a a contract that we honor every year. Uh one of the ones that we're looking at closely Kurt and I right now is the Oakland County uh Seers. U we have a program now that we do all our medical reporting through is ESO and it's going to we would look to save about 25% if we were to make the switch and get rid of Oakland County. So that will save uh the village approximately5 to 7,000 a year but we're still actively pursuing it. I know Springfield just went to that new platform where they took Oakland County out of the equation and now using a private system. We already have that private system in place through medical reporting. Uh but I still want to do a little bit more due diligence as Oakland County is a phenomenal resource. Uh what are there other uh avenues that open or other things that Oakland County provides through this uh reporting system versus the ESO and the pros and cons of that. So I just learned of this within the last probably two weeks, two, three weeks. And I'm hoping to meet with Chief Cely from Springfield in the very near future. I own a lunch. So I think we're going to sit down and have those conversations pros and cons of making that switch.

But contractual last year uh really hit me too. Um there's a couple notes that chief has also made on this one up here that is I don't think reflective on your sheet yet. So he did want to bump up from contractual from four 40,000 to 45 and down at equipment. He wanted to go from 12 to 2250.

And I think that uh that number 36 is an important one to discuss. Um I have two boats right now at the fire hall. Both are flat bottom boats with a 40 horse Mercury on them. But we have approximately nine bodies of water in the Shyasi River. Only one of those nine bodies of water I can use those boats for and that's Bush Lake because they have an access ways. Uh I have no way or no resources right now to access them. Uh about 30 days ago, we had a a report uh that there was a kayaker possibly drowning in um I believe it was Beans and I actually commandeered Mr. Wingle Meer's kayak.

It was it was a kayak that drifted away that so they always treat as if the person went under. Yeah. uh became unfounded, but what was really apparent was I didn't have a resource to get out there, right? So, Oakland County Marine Division was there. They were looking to bring in boats and go through people's yards and just without uh I just grabbed a kayak, went out there, did what I needed to do to assure that we had and then we were able to locate the owner of that kayak and it just drifted away in a storm. Uh and he said he didn't have enough time to go get it before he went to work that next morning. Um but I do have some images here. We're looking at something similar to this. Uh it's a inflatable 14 foot flat bottom aluminum boat uh which will allow us to quickly deploy this uh in the Shywasi River uh in all of our inland bodies of water to you know in the event that we have an emergency. I'm not calling in additional resources which is a delay in time. Uh and this one here is about 2,200 $2,300 and it would meet a good majority of our needs. I also got three other in here um that you know I think would be extremely beneficial. It's one of our weaknesses right now. Uh and then you know as we've been working with some communities all week, this would have been this could have been a resource that would have been drastically needed in the event that we were unable to um evacuate the homes before the flooding was too bad.

Let's hypothetically say we did let's see get that vote. We have we have an enclosed trailer. Uh we already have a we have a flat trailer. Uh it's not enclosed, but it's a I don't know what you call it, a landscape trailer. We already have trailer. Yeah, we already have that now. Uh and we had one of these boats. Um but it was an agreement with Groveland. Groveland requested the boat back and then once Groveland realized that the seams have all dry rotted out, they didn't want it back. So then I reached out to uh and they deemed it out of service. The scenes couldn't be represent inflatable. So like inflation part of it, a place to store the motor for it.

There's no motor. There's no motor. No. It's all It's all those materials dry rotting. Is there an upgraded version that you could get that's maybe not inflatable? And do we have room to store something that's not inflatable? Well, I think uh the inflatable part of it, it would always be inflated first. Uh The one that we had now was over 20 years old. Uh the lifespan of these are between 10 and 15 years. Oh, okay. He was against getting a swan paddle boat like refurbished. I thought go out on it, but we get you a trolling. One item to consider is if it is for the Shyasi as well. I know that they are very they the

Shyazi River Trail. I believe you had water trail association. They're very particular on how wide the actual cutting is for this path. So, we actually had I don't remember if if you remember, I believe it was early summer of last year, we had some bikes over abandoned Oakland uh and we launched an extensive uh search. We we had a a canoe at that time. Uh it was one of our firefighters and we took that canoe down and I don't see any reason why this boat be able to mitigate through those. I know from doing the trails. Oh, maybe not in the village actually. So, in the village I guess be okay. Yeah. No, everything that we've seen and we went all the way down to the can uh the

I was thinking past the village there's some very narrow areas. So, and it would make it under both of the culberts that are in the village too. And we can have a discussion with um Sue Julian from the head bar trail association to just see because they know that those 82 miles even though that obviously the 82 miles isn't are all in the village but um they uh 88 she's saying over there uh that um we we the last the last six we don't care about. No, but uh the um that they know them very well and could probably give us some recommendations about, you know, this, but the inflatable portion would allow us to, you know, port it when we need to and uh all that.

Well, and realistically, you've got the access now to where that new um community has been built where we have that little pocket park where you could get in right there. You're past the culprits at that point. Then you're on the town, too. and still be able to because you can carry it, right? Yeah. And then what is 50 pounds? What is the carrying weight inside of it? Uh, it carries 14 people. So, I believe it's Holy Gez. But you got to remember with our equipment. If we were to have to rescue two people, I think that would be No, I'm just saying be able to carry 14 people just playing people. I mean, you guys equipment, you three or four guys in there. I I I stand corrected. It's 10 10 people. Never mind then.

14. We'll take that off. do have one question for you if we're ready to move on. For vehicles, I know um last year's vehicle purchase ended up being your um unsafe uh Explorer that we were able thankfully to do. Thank you. What is uh planned for this year vehicle? I think it's budgeted for the same amount as last year. I believe that's just for um engine one. the engine one that was purchased two years ago or three years ago or two years ago through council. No, I think he's talking about so the the the line 9 line 981 37. Yeah, this might be um

I don't have anything budgeted for 44,000. So yeah, this is what we like our yearly payment on I thought yearly pay was 50. No, our yearly payment on the uh you're talking about fire truck injured one. Yes. Yeah, that's um 66. Yeah, I think this that number needs to be looked at um right there because I believe but if I can so the 44 is part of it and then I think the um pledges of the rest

so I guess the question now is then the 44 last year is not a budget vehicle was not the budgeted vehicle. Let me look at the um actual GL activity on that just

I thought I think the vehicle that's closer to the bottom. My assumption when I looked at that I thought it was for our our commitment to how much was it to originally purchase I'm sorry how much was it to 666,000

okay so it was almost this this number right here that's the original we weren't sure if that was including No, that was a vendor in this week and he said that same truck this year is 780. So, let's sell it. Flip it.

Uh, with that, I would still like to stay on 36 because uh, as you can see, the 2200 isn't quite the reflection there. Uh but with that new 6x6 uh we're looking to get this skid unit to be put on the back of the 6x6 and this would be used for all of our events in the downtown uh sort park with the disc golf. Uh last year we had an individual break a leg uh way out there and we had to literally carry the individual uh he wasn't a small man. Park in the village. It is really in the township park in the village. Yes. All of them

all the township parks are in uh this one the cheapest money. The cheapest quote I was able to get is 4250 and as you can see this will carry the stretcher where we can put the stretcher right on the back of this. We can have patient care and then it also gives us a cargo unit to carry our EMS supplies. That's awesome. Can we pass that around? Yeah, please. Thanks. So the line There does say 22,500. Well, it's an additional 10,000 to the 12. Okay. For a total for a total of these two expenses. Okay. 36 number. Yeah. Line number on the

up there. Yeah. We don't have those numbers here. Oh, I'm sorry. Um, council, anything else? Okay. Does that include Does that does that fit the uh No, I meant Does that fit the new uh the stretcher that's automatic power? The power load. So, we won't got to worry about buying another stretcher. We can build. Now, do we have an extra stretcher for that? And we're not going to use the power load for that. We have an additional stretcher that was the expenditures on this. This 40,000 was a payment just for the Durango. single payment. It was single payment for the during I knew it came under the budget.

Yeah. So that did not the fire did not come out of that line. Nor were there any payments previous years. So we need to find out that I can't remember.

What about also back to the 6x6? What about putting like god forbid we had a brush fire that happened somewhere? Yeah. So, the last we're so dense uh in our 3.02 square miles. The last wild land fire that we had was over 5 years ago and it was along the railroad tracks. Um so, we are so tightly packed that we are confident that we can access almost all of our wild line area. The only place that would be a question for us would be uh insourcing park one uh if the park were to catch on fire or if one of the mulch piles out there and at that point we'd have to bring in additional resources with tankers

and that would all some of the areas that we uh buddy up to I guess you could say where it's like mutual aid kind of thing. It would be a mutual aid partner response. I would love to have a bus truck. Uh I don't I I you called it what? a brush truck. Uh I think we would get more use out of an EMS response than a fire response for the 6x6. I just do they have a separate They do. I mean I don't know if they could but it's not both. You can't do a fire. Oh, it can't have both of them in there. No, just because the pumps and the hoses wave limit of that would be able to do both a person and the water or supplies. Or is there do they make a trailer for something like that?

We could possibly do a trailer. Um I just think that 98% of our calls are EMS and I at this point I don't feel the village is in a good spot to not waste but use money elsewhere for a brush truck. You're making an educated guessulate. Yeah, I do. That's why that's why I wanted to know. I want to make sure that all

last year our fourth of July festival, July 3rd festival, Independence Day festival, uh we did have the that broke her leg out by the pavilion, out by the lake. We ended up driving the ambulance back there. Uh I was terrified. I drove it. Uh but there was possibility of getting stuck, right? So now that this unit would allow us, any events that go on, is that something we would see around town then? 100%. It would be for all events, parades. You may not see it in the parade. You would see it as a response a response vehicle.

And as you know, some of the downtown events, they're so congested. Uh this vehicle would allow us easy access, get the patient, get the patient out, get him to the alpha unit where we could render care.

How do you think we're doing as a as a community safety wise? I think we're in a pretty good spot providing necessary safety to our residents. There's always room for improvement, right? U you know, there are some events that we have downtown that I I appreciate, Tim. Uh with our new forms, uh you know, the car show is a big one where we the downtown's completely closed with very little accessibility for us. Uh one of the things I want to see is at least a 20 to 25 foot fire lane for all events, especially in the downtown, uh so that we can respond in the event of emergency. But um I think we do a great job being proactive. Uh but you know, citizens and people that come in from outside of communities, accidents happen, right? And we just have to be prepared for worst case scenario for every event. And that's how I try to plan when these special event applications come in.

I um I'm sold. It's $4,200. Like I'm I was sold when you first said it. Oh, yeah. Me, too. Because council, anything else? All right, let's move on. um building department take the floor.

Uh so this one actually there I don't believe there was any increases. Uh I actually had a substantial decrease. Well you look at the overall line it was a $2,000 uh from 3500 to 1500. Uh and that was every three years we had to buy new books uh for the building department, the the NAC which is the National Electric Code, the Michigan Building Code, a rehabilitation code, the plumbing code, uh code enforcement code. There's just seven volumes of books. Uh and we made that purchase this year and in three years we'll have to renew those. But uh as we sit right now, I didn't have any increases. I had another decrease in memberships. I guess uh mechanical inspector, you know, those are third party contractors uh that we bring in. Uh so it looks like there was a slight increase of $500 to his pay, but that's really based on permits, right? If we get a surplus of projects in the village, uh then he would be required to do more inspections. So that's very hard to predict um how how many permits we're going to see in a year. Um, so there's a pattern on both this and the last budget of memberships going down. Um, what's with that?

I think that we really just didn't spend it and uh we're comfortable with the memberships that we have now. So there's nothing you you guys are walking away from or Oh no. Okay. Medical did have a big jump though from 19 the activity we're at 28. That would be I think that's where we were talking about when we were on the Yeah, that's what I was I wanted to make sure we hit that. And full transparency, I rely a lot on Tim and Lisa for the payroll side of things. Uh because, you know, I just really just input the numbers into uh paychecks and then Lisa's team goes through and actually inputs all that. I don't see a lot of the back end, especially when it comes to FICA or insurance. I trust our team.

You have a zero request budget for part time. That's that curve went full time. Okay. So that is the difference and a lot of these the inspector fees you know those are all going to be although there are expenditures they're going to be kind of in and out because we are recouping those fees by charging individuals for them as well. you know, their expenditures, but people pay for them and it covers, you know, Scott or whoever is doing as well as, you know, some administrative fees for staff for processing.

And then council did renew the fee schedule and a lot of those fees were reflected as an increase due to some of the wages going up to those inspectors. keep them on our community. We want to be the same that Springfield's increases thus far. Jim, thank you. Could you just speak briefly to what the building department is and why our fire chief is in charge of it?

Uh, so it's very uncommon. Um, but I'm dual licensed. Uh, I am I was a builder previously, so I have enough C credits to, uh, petition the state to building official license. So, I took the test uh two Februaries ago. I passed the test and uh when Steve McGee left, uh he was the building official and fire chief. So, uh I believe Brandon is one of the other communities near us that actually has um his name. He's a good friend of mine. I apologize. Jason will uh tell he's the assistant. Shame on you.

And and the uh building official. So, it's very unique uh to have a building official and a fire chief as a dual role, but it does save the community tens of thousands of dollars where you're not employing two different individuals to do both those and we're a small community so I can balance that. Council, anything else on this page?

Just training. We didn't have nothing allocated and no activity, but then we have $1,000 for it. Now, uh so there is for me to maintain my CES in um the building side, there's there's two options. One, I can use an online platform to gain the CES I'm required to have in an annual year or there's conventions like Kevin was in Iowa. I wouldn't go to Iowa, but uh they do have one in Bay City every year in May that I will be attending this year and it's roughly $900 and I don't stay. I drive home. I'm not I'm not severely questioning. I'm just saying, you know, C is continued education.

C. Well, I feel like last year when we went through this like a lot of the training budgets got like we all out of everything. So that might be why we had zero. We we've been careful about it, you know, about anything. But also, yeah, keep in mind that this goes until June 30th. A lot of these things are in like June and May is when the events happen. So, although there's no activity yet, there will be activity before. Any more questions on building? Okay, let's move on. All right. And I think that is all I need from uh Chief Watson.

I need a one I need a one minute break. Let's resume in one minute. I'm trying.

Okay, we're resuming and we're picking up from data processing. All right. And so the next um Thank you. next four are going to be kind of tag team shave probably between Lisa and I. So let me grab this. So you know I can I can take lead on it and Lisa when I say something wrong just correct me throw something.

So data processing. All right. So obviously we have a large contractual bump in this. Um, you know, this is, uh, part of this is our BSNA. Our BSNA, we are going to see increases that are probably going to be a nexus to 50,000. This is just an estimate right now. We don't know if we're going to have to move over to the cloud system, but almost everyone is at this point. We're kind of holding out until the last moment until we have to uh transition over because it is going to be a bigger expense. But we've seen with all of our contracts across the board as far as data processing goes that the prices have increased um uh quite um quite significantly. Um so yes

I do have a question. So with BSNA right now we offer um complete free access for things. Does that factor into We do not anymore. No. Okay. Good. I don't I believe we we changed that. Yeah. We are changing that plan. We did it was for the year and now it's just if you're a res and you want to look up your information that's free but now if you want to look up somebody else's you go through the third party and then they get charged so I'm sorry

but will that help with some of these costs will some of our costs or how does that factor Yeah. So this number reflects this year's activity without that 5500. Okay. So because we didn't pay that was due in February and we signed that contract to the third party.

Um so these and so the these did um that's why that number is that when I met with BSNA they again every year they they we have um a service fee contract and numbers are just increasing and because we're on what they call net program they're trying to do away with we're grandfathering in on the net for like they're trying to in a sense force everybody to go cloud and the cloud software is a lot more expensive we already looked into it and we just so what steps are they doing to try to force us into it they're just not going to offer support

upgrades a lot of ours is going to be based on when all the surrounding communities of the county. all of them have shifted over and then you know if if we're not able to speak to each other essentially uh with the state and with the county that's when we are going to have to they they they were everyone was supposed to have switched over a couple years ago um and they keep pushing off the deadline and we we've been dragging our feet on it because there's also been a lot of bugs early on with the uh with the cloud version and so that's been our excuse for not moving over is because you know hey we don't want to transition to a broken system they figure all of that out. So if So I think the township voted to do it. I'm not sure if they've done it yet. They have moved over.

So if we don't move over, that's it. They just say we're not taking your money anymore.

We we um so we in which means we into the tax system through Oakland County and Oakland County right now is in talks with BSN to move to the cloud. However, they haven't done it yet. So again, we don't we're not have to until even when they do it's we don't utilize our other systems like our our um our general ledger or our accounts payable or our building I mean our utility building utility billing and building we don't you those don't speak to the Oakland County system it's all separate so technically like I said we're going to probably hold out until they say that they're not going to support us anymore

so BSNA will not provide functionality for our system to talk to someone else's all within well eventually but eventually they won't even give us support meaning like they won't upgrade our system and then we will also like I'm just going to make this up we're trying to do a functionality in there right now we can call the we say hey we want to do x y and z and then they step us through and help us but if they if they do away with that we're not going to have that opportunity any longer if they don't support any that seems weird to me we're still going to be paying a fee to them but they're not going to support us

correct This is not only just BSNA though. Also on here is our website hosting. It's um some VC3 uh or who do our some of our IT stuff. So there are other expenses. It's not just BSNA that is covered within contractual. Now um Miss Cole did bring up the fact of uh charging for third party lookups on BSNA. Now because that was a fee, does council need to approve that at all or is that something that administration can just do? A fee? It's BSN.

It's BSN fee. They char they we do nothing with it. So when somebody comes out and looks at somebody else's like let's just say that there's a title company looking for taxes and utility bills or whatever. They they go out to the site and then they are connected to BSNA and BSNA. We don't have anything. So we don't receive any of the the income for lookups for third party. Never have. And we never did. Well, there's never been a fee.

Yeah. because we were we were covering the expense essentially. I see. And so what we did is we had them run a like how many of our residents look utilize the system just to compare like of the cost that it costs us in comparison to the expense and it really it was you know really the only people use are realtors I believe primarily and so it was just decided hey and nosy neighbors and nosy neighbors. Yeah. And of me and yeah you that's what I'm saying. So, but like primarily that that's who utilized it. So, we just saw as an expense that um you know is something we could cut out. So, how was it previously? Were we paying per lookup then for for something or was it was it a flat rate? It was a flat rate.

So, then our flat rate has gone down and it's being covered by the individual lookups. No, that's why it's we just got out of the middle of it. We're just not contracting. It was a contracted fee of $5,500 a year and we're just not we just did not we didn't add that additional feature outdoor account. Thank you for doing that for our village. Does that affect our foyer at all? Any kind of foyas or no? So the VC3 contractual stuff now we are budgeting a little bit more for contractual some of this to cover Hoya costs. So, is VC3 um Tim under data processing or is it under Well, I I actually just pulled this up to just check make sure expenses as we're going and there are some VC3 um let me see.

So, I can speak a little bit to VC3 depending on Yeah, there are there are some VC3 charges on this. In fact, a lot of it is VC3 charges. Okay. Well, the VC3 so what's going on with VC3 is they are eventually going to go what's called to dual factor authentication.

So, for cyber And um so they were they're going to get me a quote on talking about that. Um so that's going to be an increase. Also every year just because of inflation their their contracts raise. They came out and uh talked to me and they did an assessment. A couple things too is our um our server is 2019 and servers only last about seven to eight years. So our server is they're telling us that they're going to probably they have to replace our server and he's supposed to be giving me a quote on that. Um, and I think I sent the information to Tim how much I said the server was. I know it was Yeah, I would have to look it up.

Yeah, I have to look it up, too. Um, so I'm waiting on that. And then also the other thing that's um ready to go is our firewall. Now, our firewall is about $3 to $5,000. Well, there's a um and I'm trying to look into um right now MMR has technology grants out there and one of the things is it's called cyber security. So again, our firewall is pretty much security. So what happens if it fails?

Our firewall is just like everybody has access like there's no privacy. It's just it's done. So they um I got the quote and going to go out to MMA and see if I can um apply for this grant and I it's a um 25% match grant so it be 75% 25% off so I'm trying to see if I can get at least the firewall cover the firewall if that goes down it can also be hacked

so is this something I don't know how the grants work so um can you just go ahead and and get you know get what you need to get and then ask for the match grant it's already paid for first like a 25% reimbursement grant. Sure. We have funds. So yeah, I I um Yes. I mean that is something I I I believe it is a reimbursement grant. I I don't believe that it's you know like they have to purchase it then we have to pay them. I believe it's a reimbursement.

We've been looking at um changing out our IT service provider too. We haven't been too happy with it. We're looking at doing RFP. Uh Lisa keeps bugging me to to to write that one up that it's a little bit more complicated of one because of uh all the things they do to provide to have an RFP that like really specifies you know it because there's probably things that IT companies out there can do for us that we don't even know about. So we want to write it in a manner that um it's because it' be a full service provider for these kinds of services for us. So we're looking questions on data processing. Let's move on to cler treasurer and then we'll take a we'll take a break. A real one, not a one minute one.

Questions I got to get there. Is there a reason for that? The only thing the overtime is the um the employees, they can choose whether they take cap time or overtime. So I can't that's my best guess if they're going to take time or overtime. So if they're taking the overtime

training training is um so kind of like Tim had said last weekend contractually I'm allowed to go annually to the MML training and I haven't done any of that and then also Tessa requested to go to the MGFA which is a Michigan government finance officers association. They have a um it's called the basic accounting training. She wanted to go to that. That's about $500. That's great. And then what about postage supplies? That's kind of a big increase for postage.

Yeah. So we're increasing postage in case again if we have to send out all the letters for the special assessments and things like that. That's going to increase that line. What about retirement? Why are we seeing we've only used 19 and now we're up to 94.

So Tim wanted to do a bigger delve into that because technically the one union person was coming all out of that and we may be now breaking that up because that person is not all clerk. She's broke up between clerk and I think water and sewer. So in system right now. We're probably breaking it. Water, sewer. I left it high on this because I did not want to put it low based on activity and then us to go back when we do a a deep dive and be like, "Oh, no, we should have because it is representative of these are the um the unfunded pension liabilities that we have that we're, you know, even though it's retirement for only a few people, it is um it's all of that retirement debt that or that unfunded pension liability that they're having to pay off on some of these. And because one of them those uh Even though it might be just one person here, that's still covering for, you know, not Debbie, but like, you know, the other people that have since retired from that account, uh, which is the same Teamsters one as DPW and, um, some others. So, just representative. So, we're and when Lisa and I talked about it earlier this week, I said that's what was specific one that we need to deep dive in to make sure that um the that they're being that we are putting it pulling it from the correct accounts for this.

You know, what percentage we have to fund it too? Well, 110% uh is and which we're scheduled to get to at 2040. Right now, we're at 62%. Um, and that's uh until we have we stop making payments at 110 uh%. Potentially could go down. And the reason I'm saying that that 62% is because of the current grievance that you guys just approved in the last meeting. So those those wages will go into I'll call it the actual figure. And so then we would we're going to be paying that. But again, it's going to be spread out. So when you spread it out like that your percentage goes down

and then printing publications. Uh printing and publications. Uh two things. Number one again special assessment because again um we have to post that paper and um also um does that cover like special meetings too? Special meetings I don't post in the paper. Special meetings I just put on the board and I put out delivery. Um but I mean have to be posted in the paper. They must so um and again all the um we'll just say it like all the letters and all the stuff that goes out when with the special assessment you've got your paper, your envelopes, your you know all of that.

So those those likewise for the DDA we suggested to break them out into further details for advertising. Is that something that we need to break out under printing and publications like line for notices or one line for anything else or is this acceptable? Well, one of the one of the other problems is that we have, you know, our the agenda packets went from, you know, historically being 30 pages to

now being 500 pages. And so that's what we talked about, you know, cutting back on some of the, you know, we won't necessarily print out all of the financial details. It'll be on the digital version, you know, to cut a couple hundred pages off of those, but they're still long documents that we in the past never got printed out. But I think my question primarily dealt with is this specific enough for what the clerk treasurer was talking about though because we we were saying the DDA need to be more specific. I mean we need to be more specific.

Any of these we can break out into like you know footnotes is and that's kind of we already have a little bit of that data. Um you know to talk about like what specifically these things are. Um as far as do I believe we need to create additional line items. I don't think that is necessary. But as far as any any any of these items that council wants to say, "Hey, what does this look like?" We have like footnotes to like discuss like so we can talk about

and again to you know say what you're saying about the DBA they're very vague. They have a very vague number like promotions but now you've got all these things going into promotions. You got advertising. You got people getting paid lunches. You know those are all different things. This is pretty self-explanatory. It's printing and publications. I'm doing printing and I'm putting publications in the newspaper. I mean, so it's apples or Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What about audit services? Audit services that should be well that should be to be determined. I don't know why he's got 50,000. It was we were just throwing a number out there because we haven't picked an auditor yet. It was just

That's what I thought. I figured because we're I think the total we saw was 50 grand. The audits, was it? Uh well, it was 50 grand for just the normal audit. Remember, there was all the other Gazsby and all that. I our audit was way more than 50 grand this year. I mean, for the proposals we received. Oh, proposals we received. It was more than 50 grand. Yeah, they were I think I can't remember exactly. Anything else on claser? She We know it. Take a 10-minute break. We'll be back at 11 on our phones. Not 11. Can we get that clock fixed? It's a we

Donuts. All right. Are we live? Yep. Community. Welcome back. We are on community development. All right. So, that's an enormous decrease. So, we went from um 84,000 to 16,000. Let's see. And the biggest portion was the Oh, CDBG. So,

and yeah. So, the reason that is um the expenditures haven't been addressed on there is um because we are going to have CDB expenditures, but it's for it's going to be in andout funds. Uh it's we um we have money we have to spend from previous years, but it's money that we spend and then we get directly reimbursed for those monies. Um so we don't um it it's kind of hard to say exactly what those amounts will be yet. Um it's not going to be zero. It's going to be but like for code for it's it's I don't want to say that we're spending you know $40,000 $40,000 on something right now. Uh as but it's something that we've been projecting out since 20 19, you know, for for those months. So again, because it's in and out, I was just expressing that as a zero right now because it's an expense that we would do and it would get reimbured to us.

I still think that just go ahead. My standpoint, I still think we need to put something in there because we're still we still reprogram the money to code enforcement and each month we are expensing it out and then we're getting it reimbured through the through a revenue item. So I think we should still put something in there because we still, just so everyone knows, we still have about I'm guessing right about $53,000 in CDBG monies from the past that we have to use and we're looking at potentially right now maybe reprograming that money again for fire hydrants. So, but we don't know yet because we're still going through the

and if you look at the revenue line when we get to revenue line items you'll see that that line item zeroed out as well because I'm not even though we are would get that money in whatever the expenditures would be it would be in and out. So, just for purposes of budgeting, I was going to say that it really is a non-issue as far as because we aren't, you know, it's not like we can adjust it one way or another because it's going to be an expense we have that gets reimbured from CDBG. Um, again, we might spend 20, 30, 40,000 on it, but it's all money that would be reimbursed back. So, until we kind of figure that out, I didn't want to put any specific numbers on there. Council just approved an expense for the mill pond for $36,000. Does that need to be reflected on here?

That would be in this fiscal year. And it's also from It's also from the um you guys have an assigned fund balance. The assigned Okay. Any other questions? Council, why is professional services got a credit of almost $5,500? Let me look at why that is. Well, he's looking for that. Are we expecting any more cost for like stuff? If we are, then it's going to go out balance.

Well, it is general fund balance in general. If there's an assigned amount, I believe there's like 100,000 or something in there. So, we'll be using that money for that. And it doesn't come out of the general. I mean, it comes out of the general, but comes out of their general. I understand where you're I understand. It's coming out funds for them. Exactly. Thank you. Yes. Yes.

The only reason why I was concerned about professional services is just 2425 we had 4,800 and then this year now we're credit and then I just curious.

So let's ask Lisa if um while he's looking that up. Does anyone else have any other questions about community development? In that case, while Tim's looking that up, put that aside and let's move to the next page for non-EP departmental. Um, Lisa, administration fees and charges went up five grand. So, the reason that it's like that right now in activity is because of escrow amounts. So people that had done that have done work or looking they put money in an escrow account for their site plans things for community development for example like scooters or whatnot they've put money into that account that not hasn't necessarily been expensed out to the um you know when we do a row invoice for them or whatnot it hasn't Oh okay gotcha gota

that's what it looks like I mean and um just from looking at the general ledger um from the 5000 not from what April just asked no from of professional services, right? Uh professional services. Yep. The reason that it's a credit on there rather than an expense. Why do we have extra money in there for activity? It's because people have put money because we've done a new requirement rather than us footing the bill for them in advance. We've required people to put money in escrow in order to cover the expenses before. You answer Daniel's question. I was thinking you were answering April. Oh, sorry. That's a new item, too,

correct? You have there there didn't used to be escro accounts in this matter. We didn't uh yeah we are we are getting a lot more productive so because in the past we were you know footing the bill for a lot of things because you know they would uh it would go to planning commission and it would get dropped and then they didn't want to pay the bill because you know it it it got denied or whatnot. So now we're making them put money in escrow uh for our engineering services and all that. I think that's one of the nice changes that I don't know who did that or came up with it but one of you guys. So thank you for doing that saving our taxpayers money. Should we put that as an escro line instead of just a professional services line? We do have escro lines. No, I'm saying under community development.

It's not under community development. They have their own escro lines under trust and agency 103 fund. So they have so the new the new ones that we're using. I think I'll just put some names out there like Michigan Credit Union, Trilogy. Um there's actual line that's where we put their money. So now when the bills coming from row now we're taking it out of those escro monies. Okay. These were es monies that we recouped from previous. Okay. Yeah because I can see there there were like four of them from scooters for example that um so it's probably a back payment of what so

so there probably be have some in journal entries that Lisa will do to make sure that you know that's correcting making sure they're all in the right departments. Uh but again, yeah, these are Yeah. four of them. One one for $1,300 for scooters, $70, $1,800, $250. For example, this one um like Quilt Shop put one in. So like all those names that he's he's giving as examples, none of them had escros. So what happened is we spent the money and then now when they paid us, I had to put it wasn't a cost to us. It was an in and out.

It's a pass through. Now we're now we have an escro account set up for these for projects. Now now it's not that's not going to touch this line item. It's going to touch the escro account. Oh, so it will no longer show up. Yeah. I don't know what the $5,500 I know Tim had put that in there, but I don't know unless there's some professional services that we're going to um utilize for

Yeah. I think if we were using accounts properly, we can this might be a line item that gets zeroed out because we're now doing it correctly. Um, some of these again were just initial. We had a lot of moving pieces as we're doing this budget and so this um this may be one that that ends up just being a zero item because it's just in and out. Okay, any further questions on community development?

All right, head back over to non-EP departmental and Lisa administrative fees and charges went up 5,000. So the administrative fee and charges uh for non departmental. So what happens is is this one Tim that we do a journal entry because I see Yeah, I'm going to go over there and check it out.

Oh, I'm sorry. This is the admin. This is the um uh vehicle equipment rentals. So I think we were talking about this last Saturday. Remember I don't know if it was Tom or Daniel, I don't know. One of you guys brought up about how come there's not fuel charges on one of these line items. And I said, well, because we charge we do a journal entry where we take and we charge them for the amount of time that they use for this. I think that this could be that, but I'm not sure. As soon as Tim brings it up, I can I'm having so I have I get sometimes ocular migraines and so I'm having to use my peripherals to find things right now because I'm starting to get one. Sorry, utilities was an enormous jump, but we don't really have much say in that.

And then insurance went up a couple grand. I am going to talk about

um I am going to advocate for us allocating some sort of CDG funds to I understand that we can't necessarily fund them in the way that some of the townships do where they are just giving them an labelled amount where We have historically given CDBG funds but I think we need to contribute to that also. So I have two two comments about that. So number one we so for this fiscal year the deadline to submit our application was dece in December and Tim and I decided not to ask for any CDBG funds for this fiscal year because we still had monies we had not used in the past. We have a What's that? What's it?

We have to maintain a ratio. Maintain a ratio. So, if we don't maintain a ratio, we will not be able to draw. And so, like I said, we have there's money we haven't spent from 2019. And so, every year when we take money for new things,

we can't um we we can't get it anymore. I asked um I sent a message out and I don't think they'd respond back. I'll double check, but I essentially said, "Hey, we we are we're in budget season. We're looking at, you know, how we can actually support you doing this, but there are certain like reporting requirements that we'll need back from you as far as this, this, and this, as we've done in the past. Are you guys willing to um do that to to meet those reporting requirements? And I don't think I ever received a response back. I can look at when I said that just in a second. The administration fees charge, it looks like, is actually paycheck charges. Oh, pay.

So, from paychecks. So because we farm out our our payroll company that's the invoices that they charge us for the payroll so for taxes and assessments that's what we would pay to the township for our so when it said like maybe we can't talk to the assessor because that's hired by the township in truth we are actually paying that assessor taxes The taxes are on um okay I'm gonna get this wrong but is there a Patter or something like that? There's these drains.

Yeah, there's these drain um we get once a year from the township for these drains and I know that was over six grand of that money and then I believe there is because again as a as a municipality we don't pay taxes but we do have to pay because I think that's a special assessment. Okay. paid to Oakland County. I think we pay the township when the township pays.

So, I sent a message to Haya saying, "I'm currently working to find some creative solutions. If we're able to continue to provide funding, it most likely have to come from CDBG funding. If you were able to provide, if we were able to provide you $3,500, would you be able to provide the invoicing requirements that CDBG has?" I sent that message on March 2nd and I never received a response. I sent to three members of HA as well as Lisa

and Just so you know too is CDBG has say increased their reporting capabilities and they now are even getting more diverse with it because they want to know the nationality and the gender and how many people and I mean it's really like again because right now we also um have money to neighbor to neighbor so neighbor to neighbor when we have like we can't pay their water bill so they go to neighbor to neighbor neighbor neighbor pays they have um as they ask us they ask us they have to do specific criteria on this. So in the past would only say well we we gave um drivers to three high school students that's not good enough for the reporting to then gave 3500 to high then we wouldn't get that reimbured. We have to have all the reporting requirements in order to get that those reimbured and reached out to other communities who fun or they do um like Clarkston gives CDBG funds to their high organization us offering that and then turning in that reporting is not an unheard of task that is actually common practice in these youth areas at least from my research that I found there's very few that are just like here's 500

and that so that my concern with just giving the money is because that's against public act two. So public act two for our financing we can't extend our credit the money of the village residents to another municipal to any other agency without it being like contracted services or showing how the money is being spent within our community. So we can't just give them $3500 without showing that it's actually being utilized within our community. That's why the CDBG standards are there. That's why um like unless it was we were contra contractually doing something they have an office here that we're supporting them in some manner but since it is a broader thing we just that's why the report reporting requirements are not only important for CDG but it's also important for us um in order to meet um the the standards that department treasury have to for purposes

quick summary the answer is yes cluster is our liaison you can reach out to them and let them know they just need to fulfill the public act two requirements. It's pretty simple, but it won't be on this. It won't be on this year's budget because we've passed that deadline. No, I'm looking for the 2627. That's still going forward. 2627 requested budget is zero. Yeah, we would we would be requesting it. It'll be zero. So then it'll be the next year. It'll be 20. It'll have to be 27 28. Well, it'll be we can still request the money at the end of this year for it. So if they're telling us this is what it won't be until the following year, we're always a year behind. That's what I'm trying. And we can all we might be able to reprogram stuff too. And we've also we've talked to them about reprogramming. Let's just get them on the paperwork.

Years that we have ignored this. So I do think I felt like I one I had no idea that we weren't funding last year. So as a le I dropped that ball and advocating, but this year we knew that we didn't give them anything last year or not going forward into this year not offering something. So, we have to figure out something. I don't I don't know that we can reprogram into the public service fund. So, let's not make any promises. Let's just get them working on the paperwork so that we can help support them getting help going forward and we'll see what deadline they do or don't fall into from that point. Tim, and they have to be willing to do it. If they don't answer, they don't answer.

Right. So, but Buster, you can ask them to to go back and look at that email, right? And I just forwarded it to Buster Shannon. Does our our township contribute to Haya? Yes. Thank you. On our recap as township, that's what I'm saying. So we we as residents are still contributing to Haya. Yes. So we will be doubling as a village. Now our residents will be doubling to Haya. So right um so what why is or why have we not spent CDGB funds? Why do we still have them available since 2019? What's going on?

So all right. So there have been there's been things that we've had like for example for a long time we had sidewalk money that we uh submitted bids out to do like a sidewalk program but the problem is when you're using CDBG you have all the additional requirements like that. So we have to do prevailing wages we have to do the um Davis Bacon. I keep wanting to say Kevin Bacon every time I do that. Uh and so we there's a lot of requirements. So a project that would maybe cost us 40,000 is actually 80,000. And so many people won't bid on it because they don't want to do the the requirements. And also it just is a very expensive. So anytime that we have a project, we just can't do it at scale enough because there's not enough money in order to meet the scale that is required in order to to do any kind of project. Um so the money has just sat and so last year we reprogrammed some of that money into code enforcement. We've been doing code enforcement, but the amount that we uh are able to expend is not the level of which like we can actually pay it pay it off. Like we have a lot of we have uh a lot of money we have we're supposed to spend this month and next month in order to meet that ratio requirement. They've been very gracious to us so far about that those ratios, but for us to continue to take in more money, take in more money. It's, you know, we don't it's not money that's sent to us until we actually spend it and we get reimbursed.

If I can just with the code enforcement. So the code enforcement is monies for the CDBG is not for the whole entire village. We have shaded areas that we can only utilize. So even though you were doing code enforcement in other areas, I can't recruit those monies because I can only go in shad. Yeah. And the shaded essentially it's north of Elm Street is kind of like the general line. My take on that whole process is if if for instance we're doing sidewalks and it's going to be a smaller project. There are times where I know we're doing catch basins or or rebuilding out the the maybe not a whole catch basin but definitely rebuilding out the concrete around the drainage

right and if that's happening we already have a contractor coming in to do it and it's probably the same guy we've used for the problem is when they did the actual thing it's for specific like sections and stuff when they did the cont So it's when they when they submit it, it's for this amount of sidewalk here for this distance of feet that we're going to do. So it's not a general fund for sidewalks. It's, you know, for this specific area like for example, we have like this. We're going to be spending some on um ADA accessible equipment at Lakeside Park

uh for uh benches and tables and things like that, but it's specifically for that park. So we have to put even though we have newer equipment in Lakeside Park, we may have to put the new equipment in Lakeside Park and take the stuff out of Lakeside Park we currently have to put them in other parks because it meets that requirement within the CDBG district. Um, and you know, so it's it is it's a it is a game in many ways as far as

I would love to see us win this game and not have to turn down free money essentially. And um I I think Mr. Burton was the one in the township that has previously advocated for cooperation. um between the the village and township and if my understanding is correct if we come together and do it our population's higher this is a couple years now our population's higher so potentially we could get more money so that's something staff is interested in doing too we have a there's another CDBG meeting soon this month I believe Mr. Burton is no

the CDBG requirements have all changed too it's like this last year they went for an all online system it's completely different. You don't It's not even like anything that we had personal touch before is kind of gone. Um it's all like on a online spreadsheet basically that they do. So it's a company that they contracted. I can't think the name of the company does all of that. It's not through neighborly. Do you think we could set a goal to I don't know zero out CDB funds or give

That's been our goal that we've been trying like we've been looking uh we've had lots of conversations about um whether or not we can use it on demolition of like uh some projects. Um but every time we have looked at any like there's just so many additional requirements. Every time we go down a rabbit hole trying to figure out all right we'd like to do it with this we see CDBG has so many requirements for it. checklist for I'm sorry, but there's a checklist for every item. So, like when we try to do demolition, there's there's soil erosion, there's all this other stuff that there's stuff that we have to pay for in order to utilize to get like only maybe $20,000. So, and then the same thing with the Davis Bacon. The Davis Bacon, that's the problem is this this packet is like this thick. It's huge. And most people, most contractors say, "I don't have time to fill all that out."

And only a certain percentage not only the entire county could be used for public service funds. So there's public service and then there's projects. So public service um is um high up. I mean it could be like that's what we would pull the money for. But we've been using it for neighbor to neighbor. So that's the like for people that can't afford to pay their water bills to keep their utilities on. Um that is what we've been using that money our percentage based that we can. It's not like we're not using the money that would have once gone to higher. We're using it the council chose previously to switch it over to do neighbor to neighbor to do to um to fund those those activities rather than hya for that that small percentage that we have the 3500. So if we switch over to doing hya then we're not doing neighbor to neighbor. So we're not helping out people with water bills.

We used to make a choice every year. And to go back to Councilman Cascella's point, yes, as residents, we do contribute to the township's um contribution to Haya because we're residents of the township, but also I feel like Haya deserves more. And I know that this council previously agreed, the majority, and the majority of the previous councils agreed as well. So, if we can get them to be willing to, and I understand the paperwork, you're a real pain in the butt, but if we can get them to start doing that, I'm I'm happy to support them. And um busted Um, any anything else on non-EP departmental? All right, moving on to solid waste. All right,

our pumps are broken. This is This is not So, solid waste is actually trash. This is your garbage. So, if you're putting your Yeah, if you're putting it down the Okay, I have no questions. Council, I think we should try fire. So we're in a contract. We're in a contract. So I think I I don't think there's many outs in the contract. Have we has attorney looked at that? For instance, I think when I looked at it, our RFP does not match the contract at all that we signed.

So for instance, the RFP says the trucks must be within 5 years old. They must do this, the times and everything else. And the contract just says yes or doesn't even doesn't even do that. That was before your time.

Yeah. Yeah. Um I've looked at it because I know that has been a concern. And so the purpose the reasons for termination would have to be and again this is just uh trying to remember it was like we have to establish that there have been they've been violating the contract and that we've notified them that they've violated the contract and they haven't made any kind of remedies. However, anytime I know that people are unhappy with the service. We've been unhappy with the service, but anytime we've reached out to our representative and uh said, "Hey, this is the issue." They've actually been pretty timely about getting back to us. People say, "Hey, they didn't pick up my trash." They will send us camera footage back showing that the person didn't have their trash can out. Uh and things like this. Um I I personally noticed things like, "Hey, you let trash go in the road." I've contacted them. They've sent a truck out to pick it up. Um so I not seen any smoking guns that violate the the terms of the contract. Now, whether it met the RFP standards is kind of irrelevant once contract once council has approved the contract.

So, the more if if people listening or councilman that are scoffing over there in the corner see that they're violating somewhere, you need to call it in because then Tim can have it Tim can have it on record. If they don't remedy within 30 days, that counts as a violation. And after a certain pattern is, you know, reached. At that point, we can consider breaking our contract. But if we don't have a record of these things, there's there's uh nothing to stand on to break this contract. And I can see

there's another thing there's another big complaint that was coming into the office was the fact that they were having a hard time getting the um rolling cans and that was a national order. So I with that point I don't think that we can hold them responsible for They're not making the cans and they can't get them. No, I'm just I'm I'm I'm scuffling over here because I've watched them dump my neighbors trash all down my street. They just don't care if it falls out of the truck or not. They just don't Did you report it? No, that's that's my fault. Yep. Just start make reports in the future and then still they have 30 days to remedy. So,

so I think one of the issues though is I've called in and I've done on the reverse where I said my cameras show the the cans are out there and they have come and pick it up, but we're still paying a staff member to reach out to them to say, "Hey, you guys have messed up. Hey, you guys have messed up." And how many hours is that eating into our staff's day to do everything else they have to do? How many times we got a call and repeated the same problems? So, as I'm saying, if the terms if nobody's reporting it, There's not a staff member to take. Well, I'm just saying I have called in multiple times. So,

well, she said also that people have called in or I believe Mr. Manager said that people have called in saying something and it was proven wrong. So, people are calling in, I think. Good. I hope so. And if that's the case, do we have they have also offered a website now and we have given that out and I'll tell you my staff has seen now less phone calls because of it. So, these people make their complaints directly to the to the trash company. If if the people make the complaints directly to the trash company, does that count for the pattern of um repeated violations and creating that pathway for us to break a contract? So I I've got the contract up right now and I'm just waiting. So

so the under termination so um the village shall have the right to terminate the contract upon written notice to contractor contractor is uh a judge bankrupt makes general assignment for the benefit of creditors or others. If receiver is appointed to manage contractor if the contractor refuses to supply enough labor, material or equipment to maintain collections, fails to make prompt pickup of materials, disregards of the law of state Michigan and the ordinance of the village or otherwise be guilty of a substantial violation of any provision of the contract. Contractor shall have 30 days to cure the alleged defaults. The 30 days of the period shall begin one day after the notice is placed in mail or on the date the notice is affixed or personally delivered. If contractor fails to cure set defaults within the time set forth in this agreement, the village may terminate the contract upon written notice for cause and without prejudice to any other right or remedy award a contract to any other party. So we would literally have to um send them a notice saying that you know this is the the issue you have 30 days to do it. Now, how my experience with him has been, I've emailed um our representative Brett and he's responded usually within a couple hours and he has a truck out there and is taken care of.

And how many of the same offense can they have? None of that is covered. It's as long as they're remedying it. That's seem that doesn't seem great to me at all. Well, contract uh council signed the contract with them. So, you know, and again, this is 2024 um and it's till June 30th, 2029. And I want to as the council that did as somebody that did sign that contract. I think we only had two contracts and Republic was probably a lot more expensive. Priority Republic also leaning on administration. Oh, I'm not I'm not blaming you guys or really the other administration. It's just, you know, obviously

well our whole purpose for going with them was to save money. We were, you know, we were trying to save

and right now a lot of scales for them and there's a lot of turnover is making massive moves making massive moves in terms of waste management. So you're going to see a lot of shake up within that industry here in the next couple of years where you're going to have that and I know with these guys um priority had bought I want to say from GFL and they bought their used equipment and that's what they're dealing with right now. that bought the used equipment of another company and now are having to make those repairs and stuff on them. Not trying to defend them too much, but just a little fact.

I mean, I can give them to their truck broke down right in front of my house and they had to like change tires and do all this stuff. And again, we al also have to keep in mind that they were, I believe, the lowest bid. And even if we look at comparative rates for other communities, you know, if we were to switch to Republic, for example, then it increases the cost, how much residents have to pay and all that. So, if it's I know that a lot of them have said they would rather be paying more, but is that at scale? Is that true for the entire community or is it just a few people saying that

is there any more questions? flood through. So, we're locked into a contract now. Are there any uh other questions about solid waste? Obviously, Tim's going to have his eye on the violations. Question. Um I believe it was municipal analytics said that we're under charging. That's why we've increased the amount on there. Will that be enough then? I mean, so we're not supposed to be making like So, that's an estimate, right? Um we're not supposed to be making money off it. It's supposed to be breaking even. And so we're having to uh the fuel sir charge everything that they charge us.

We're we're we're trying to we're trying to hit it, you know, the nail on the head on it as as close as possible without um you know, subsidizing it from anywhere else. So um again, that's not a finalized number. That's just a best guess about it what it would be exactly at the end of the year. So we're not supposed to make money, but at the end of the year, can that account have a balance?

It it's hard because that money has come from a special assessment that is done for each individual parcel that gets pays towards this. So, it's not like the next year. Um, that's it's it's very difficult to I would have to uh because my concern is if we're still pulling money out the general fund to fund what residents are expecting to pay for, it would make more sense to me to overestimate a little bit and then to say next year we can apply it apply forward. So, we're never actually put it into the general fund. We're just making sure it stays there. So I'm not understanding the question because what we do is so priority charges us per per res. So I'm just making this up like it was $250 for that's what we specialize on the taxes. So $250 per person. So we we charge $250 for for address. So I'm trying to figure out where is the extra cost coming in.

I'm guessing there's going to be a fuel search in there. So if fuel goes up $40 a gallon, let's just say they're not going to say you're still only paying 250 per house. So there's got to be some municipal analyics said we were we were short on this. So that's something we need to talk to John about more and maybe adjust. That's that's where I did the adjustments based off like just projecting out to for the for the next you know fiscal year. I thought he said we were short on waste water too refues I think what he called it. With the solid waste, how are they how are they configuring what to charge each resident? Are they just basic like Jim might have one can work? It's in the it's in the contract. It's a limited can.

It's in the contract. It's by address are they charging by the ton of garbage that goes out? No, they're charging perat. Flat fee. So I I could put 300 cans up and have to pick all 300. You would be my neighbor. Yes. No, there there are there are restrictions within the contract on that. 299 small item. No, they only take the one large item. Prioritize it.

I know previously we've talked about how do we get $10,000 for this project, we don't have it. So, if we can if we can make sure we're saving all the money in our general fund instead of reimbursing for solid waste,

I think it's something that needs to be uh because theoretically like what Lisa is saying is correct is that um like we are if we have a flat like this is how many partials we have and this is how much you know every partial gets charged. I don't know if the reason that it's a short shortage is for it's not accounting people that have that are delinquent on taxes. So our activity isn't showing that you know like so if if a hundred partals don't pay their taxes and so we don't see the activity in there is that the reason why it's a shortage and so if that why would increasing the rates for everyone else uh because we'll get that money eventually through other means. So for instance if that is the case

I I again these are okay sure I'm just just for spitballing here. So if that's the case, money comes from the general fund to solid waste. Then does it come back from solid waste back to the general fund once they pay their taxes? So you see where it says tax adjustment for prior years. So that's going to come into line item because what happens is Oakland County after we do the tax, they don't make us whole until I believe it's July. So that's already into our next year. So you're going to look at this being not this is going to this is going to be at a deficit because we haven't got that money yet. So that's going to be sitting there. I think this just requires further conversations with municipal analysts and what they're looking at when they're saying we have a shortfall on it and recommendations.

I think too just off the top of my head is because something happened here the other day and I was thinking about this. So there's a there's a list of addresses that we hand over to Oakland County for the special assessment. for example, if you get new people that come in that are going to get a receptacle priority is going out and doing that. But my question is is again is it a is it a is it an issue within our administration that are we now adding that address to our list for the special assessment because that's the other thing too is if somebody's getting garbage now they're not on the tax until the following year because the assessors don't put them into the system. So we can't charge we can't charge an for us. It's not in the system.

If I remember correctly, Mville was like 30 grand. They said we're 30 grand. So, okay, 20 grand, whatever. That That's a lot though at $250 per house. So, um I just think that the general fund is where that's really going to benefit everybody if if we're having to pay for our garbage here because someone is not being charged enough or there's something going on with it that it could come back to bite us. Like, we you know. Yeah, I'm trying to pull those slides right now.

But what also could we charge them a fee for being our tax company like Auburn Hills? Do you ever see on the side of the truck? So they say like Auburn Hills refuge pick up license blah blah blah year to blah blah year in a new contract. Sure. But you can't rewrite a contract. Well, I'm just I'm just saying because like to cover wear and tear of roads and wear and tear and stuff because you see Roy Auburn Hills. So it may be what Miss Cole said that they they don't have one particular contractor, right? Or some communities I think do their own trash collection.

So all that they said was revenues are just shy of expenditures and fund balance is zero. General funds must subsidize any shortfall. rates should be adjusted slightly to ensure revenues are sufficient to fully fund solid waste services. And I can let me see if I can actually look at the math on that too. Um what number is this? This is 226. We're at what 13 minutes before we go over I think n 10 11 12 one is ours. One is ours. That's just wishful thinking. Good job. I thought it was good too. I don't remember anything. Well, the general fund is where I'm not.

Um, what what are you looking up right now, Tim?

Um, we can move on. I was trying to find out specifically where he might be pulling that data from. Um, so it looks like All right. So in uh looking at some historical data revenue versus expenditure solid waste fund. So 25 there was uh the revenue was 449,000 the expenditures were 479,000. The year before it was a shortage of 4,000. The year before that it was 26,000. This last year uh or projected out based on what we did the difference was $2,000 or not even. That's um the difference is yeah like $1,500 is the difference.

You remember we've had talks about how do we get 10 grand to do a project. Well what what I'm saying is like our projections that we're doing now and that we are assessing for it is a difference of like $1,500 in comparison to two years ago where it was a difference of $26,000 of the of the per like so we're we're close. We're we're getting in there narrowing it in but yeah but we would like to get it to zero. I don't know if they'll ever get there without being unfair to residents with over overcharging them for services um until we like how could it be unfair to anybody if it still stays in the fund and it always goes toward that that bill

if so I guess so if if uh where where I and again this is uh just spling if Republic service says that this that it will cost per resident $275 a How could we charge them 300 when they we already know what the expense is per residence for that? Well, and this $1,500 is um change per our 6500 residents. That would be a change difference, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not Yeah, it's about what she's saying is if you split that up.

So, now it's going to be $250.15 per person. I'm making up the number 15 cents obviously, but I mean we're really close here. So what I'm all I'm saying and I didn't mean to but all I'm saying is we need to find those six residents that we're not charging for. That's what it is in a nutshell. So there just some clean up. Ideally it's zero. It's like again we they tell us how much you're going to charge. We charge the residents for it and then we get that money back. So maybe I misrepresent that. How much was our deficit last year? So 1500 was projected for next year. for that's for next year. Like would um um

didn't you say 4,000 last year and like 20,000 the year before? So 24 it was uh revenue was 372,975 and then expenditures were 376,500. So and again this just based on the math John sent me on this. So is this could do you need anything else about okay solid waste today? Okay, let's move on to the general fund on revenue. I'm going to drop a bunch of things at you because I think they can all be answered for many of them could be answered um as a group

of trailer park fees, delinquent tax penalties, property tax admin fee, electric permits, building permits, rental registrations, business registrations. Those are all things that went up along with next page. Rental inspection fees, DPW cost recovery, fire ALS cost recovery, fire training revenue, plan fee reimbursement, fines, forfeits, and penalties, interest, um, settlements and recoveries. Oh, that one went down. So before that, a lot of those things probably have something in common. Like, do we have more inspectors out there saying pay up? What's happen? We've updated our fees. The fees had not been updated for many years. Increased the fees. That's right. This council updated the fee schedule. So

the fees, there we go. Okay. So that's good stuff. Yeah. Had a couple of things that went down. Um will the state share that went down? That's the state balancing their own budget. There's nothing we can do about that. That's just um that's just a a crappy thing that the state share and state revenue sales those both went down 20 grand. Yeah, we the only thing we can do about that again is if so this is a $40,000 loss from state share and state share revenue sales.

Just wanted to point that out. Um that needs to be heard. And again, that's the that's the state balancing their own budget using what um uh how they provide money to us. Um and so, but even with that 40,000 down from the state, our revenue still went up 200 something thousand. Am I mapping? I don't math well in my brain, you guys. We went up from uh Okay. 3.9

3.9 to the 4.2. Yeah. Well, and I know we talked about this gosh probably three years ago where we were talking about the state share revenue that yeah like after like 0809 we just took a cliff dive and like communities are no longer getting what we used to essentially get historically.

It's going to continue to go down I believe too as as the federal government and the state government. So there's there's uh constitutional payments and then there's statutory payments that are within their constitutional payments. So we're talk when we're talking about state revenue share mostly we're talking about the 6% sales tax that uh people have. So it's uh constitutional payments are this is complicated of that 6% it's 15% of that 6% um 50% of 4% of that six% of sales tax collection is done by a per capita basis using our population as a factor of how they give us the money. while the statutory payments um are like the what the legislature the legislation um will give us based on our what our local needs are and that's where they take off uh the money because when the state is looking hey we have to balance our budget uh they will take down those statutory payments that based on their legislation um so that's that's where we are seeing the biggest decrease it's yeah it's complicated I think they do it very complicated on purpose. So,

well, um, great job to the staff for increasing the fee schedule because our revenue still went up almost $300,000 even though we lost $40,000 from the state. One item missing is the um, you could talk to us today about potential sharing of expenses with the DDA.

Yep. So, those are ones that we still need to um, uh, talk. There's several expenses on the DDA that we're we're negotiating right now. We're in the process of starting to negotiate as far as how are we accurately because we want to accurately collect back money when you know when we do road closures for them when we do when the DPW is doing work in their area when police is operating there when fire is an area we want to make sure that we have it in a resolution a joint resolution between both bodies our council and the DBA that says this is how we are going to collect that money back that's part of it that's part of those things that we haven't figured out and it might be a budget amendment depending on how long it takes us all to do it before because we want to make sure both sides legal uh you know signs off of it. And then the other part of that which we haven't drafted up yet, we've kind of started but is their use of this space here because they're um if they're a separate entity like they want to be, they will have to pay rent essentially. They have to pay rent, they have to pay for supplies, all those other things which hasn't really been uh articulated out like in a specific contract. We need to do a contract with them that says this is your monthly rent. This is, you know, for, you know, uh, clerk services that you're getting for your paychecks for, we have to define all those things since it's never been done before. We're kind of slowly going through that process of what does that look like? Um, but this is something that many other municipalities do. I've worked in a municipality where we had that kind of agreement before. So, it's not unheard of to do those things.

Something else potential and WA we are also doing similar uh with WA right now and they're uh in agreement um to uh you know pay for you know their utilities the space that they utilize all that that has never been done before but um WO has agreed to do it we're just working out what that that looks like so those are additional streams of revenue that we haven't uh fleshed out yet but we have the parties that are in agreement to it I don't want to project out revenue that we don't have a contract for yet because I don't want us to bank on things that we don't you know I'm on all of these I've tried to be very um on the expenditure side I want to overestimate the expenditures because I want us to come under those and on the revenues I've underestimated revenues because I would much rather have us have a flesh fund balance at the end of the year rather than us outpacing our expenditures because we didn't project out so

something else we're looking into I just want to say is so like you see the words as a fire cost recovery um it was only 1500 at 1500. Um, fire department has built out over $10,000 in cost recovery. So, what we do is we only right here, again, as Tim was saying, we only take in what we only put what's taken in. Well, I got with Tessa and um we have now solidified a collection agency. So, this even though the collection agency will take a percentage, but still we'll get something back. We should be able to get something back once they council. Any further questions on the revenue?

One other item. Um, for mobile home communities, do we um charge or they pay a rental fee inspections every time they rent out the house? So, that is something that we just recently um uh I've had uh several discussions with my uh building inspector because they had previously never done rental inspections for mobile home units, but they still are they should be required to do if they're renting it out. Most communities have a rule that you can't rent out mobile homes or modular housing units that you have to they have to be sold. Uh they can't be rented out. We don't necessarily have that within our ordinance. So people can rent them, but they need to be they need to follow our same inspections. Um, so Kurt and I and Chief Watson as well, we've been talking about we have to build out that program because we've not done them in the past, but they are going to have to start doing the rental inspections. So, we're going to see an increase on uh you know the recovery the not not only our program is going to be bigger because we're gonna have

20 uh we're have several other uh you know homes that we're going to have to do uh inspections on but Kurt is aware of it and they're working all that. How is that fundamentally different than what we currently do with rentals?

It it just increases our workload because it never been done before. So like a lot of the rentals, it's just we're in maintenance mode for it, but we have to build a uh a new program and also there's different requirements for modular homes than there are for you know a a loft bedroom in the downtown. So there are different like you know fire requirements and things. So they not that it's uh it's different as far as how we go about it but there are different requirements that they need to do. Now luckily uh chief uh assistant chief Nishki's wife has worked her career in this environment. So she's actually helping him and us develop this program within like how to do these inspections for module homes. So business registrations

and business uh business registration for short-term rentals uh business in general. Yeah. In general. So our ordinance says that they're supposed to each year pay a fee for business registrations and we have not been doing that historically. So I put together packet and letters. So, we're going to start sending those out. Yeah, we've um across the board, I mean, as you you've already seen probably if you're looking at activity, we've outpaced some of the things that we even projected out. Um and we're going to get more. We've got Lisa Breakabon over here doing collection,

right? Uh but but it's you know it's again we're not necessarily doing it to make money but we're doing it to accurately cover our cost which our costs weren't covered before. And so that's the reason we were at a deficit. So that was in the ordinance that there should be a yearly renewal fee for a business. Yeah. Uh 110 I believe it's 110 or 118 in our I think we just approved a fee for that too, didn't we? That was for short-term rentals. There was also we also did we took on the fee schedule we off

just quick question for donations and other so we had 49,000 last year we're not expecting any what was that donation was that for the player um yeah let me look at what that one actually was again for for donations and grants of course I'm expecting more you know I'm going to I'm hoping for grants. I have many grants out there, but I'm not going to put them down as expected revenue unless I have it like locked in. Um, and so I don't want to spend money that we don't have and I don't want to be unrealistic. So, if I get a grant for $2 million for leadline service replacement, yeah, that's great. And then we can put it in there and it's going to help us out with that. But I'm not going to, you know, we have to do these projections based on what we know is going to come in, not what we're hoping. So,

so do we know what that 49? Yeah, let me look at what it was for Was that the dispensary?

I know. Next time I think I just wondered I know we talked about the fire truck and like how that money was donated. So I wonder if that was All right. So um Okay. So here are the donations for that that were uh stash was uh there was a $10,000 donation. Um there was actually two $10,000 donations. Actually there was three 10,000 stash is the dispensary. That's the $30,000 that they put in. Um Nope. There's five.

Yeah. Nope. I'm I'm as I'm going down I'm seeing more and more. All right. There was five of them that were uh no one, two, three, four, yeah, five $10,000 donations in that. Um there's also some expenditures in this. That's why it's not uh uh activity. There was uh some holidays donations for hot dogs, which you know about. And yeah, so the total of the credits versus debits on the it was we had uh 50,500 with the expenditures on this line as um the uh so some of them were like the covering recovering of the cost of uh like the hot dogs when we purchased them and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Um hot dogs. I do have a question for Lisa afterwards about just remind if Lisa can just put a note that there's a um some high visibility vests on this line too that I want to see where they if that was a purchase or anyways we can talk about that later. Council, any further questions? Revenue. Okay, moving on. Let's go to major roads.

Major roads we did last week. We should be on uh now actually that's all of the uh expenditures revenues. Now we're going to go on to just our uh debt service review. So that's our um if you go to your um like these like bond payments and such in your packet the ones that look like this the general obligation debts the water sewer debts all of those. I think you're missing I think what April was saying is you have major road local roadies. Look at all the Oh, revenues. I'm sorry. Yeah, let's continue on revenues because we didn't do all the revenues. Sorry. I I did say that was enough for revenues. So, that was that was my bad. Okay.

All right. Council revenues for major local roads, solid waste, sewer, and water. Any any further questions? Again, these are just projections based on uh you know what we're looking at. Could you talk briefly about what Metro Act fees are? Um, all right. We don't reset at all.

So, um, so the Metro Act, um, and Lisa, if you know better than I, um, I wish Chief Sir Danny were here. So, there was a Metro Act, I believe that is for when, uh, like different cable like companies like AT&T and them are coming through and they actually are doing um, like work within the village. there was the Metro Act that we would receive payments in advance for things like um when they were doing like rightway work and all of that. Let me verify that. I don't know if I'm

think I remember right Brian was saying it used to be something that used to be included with the monies and then they did it and so they're no longer offering that state was giving us the money for something that they no longer funding. So that was my understanding too. It was had to do with right away I thought and my concern was um the the company I guess we can't limit utility companies coming in to do work but we can take bond payments ahead of time so performance bonds or something like that. So if they don't finish the work like we had an instance with one 123 net for instance they came through and it took them over a year okay just about a year whatever it is doesn't matter to fix the the stuff. Does that have anything to do with the the fees is my question. because we're still having like one 123 that came through last year and maybe I don't know it was the year before who knows at the time but AT&T is now doing work in the

so they still have to give us a bond they have to renew their bond each year as long as they're doing work within the village they have to renew their bond and we keep those on file um so they so one of the examples and yes they did because what happened cancer. So they they gave they sent us new bond. So we're actively enforcing the the bonding. Yes.

Do we know if it's like $1,000 $100,000 bond? It looks like these expired 2024, but I'm still not um I I haven't done much research into because I've been told that it was um that they were I can follow up with the utilities director.

All right. Should we move on to the debt services review? One question about a minute budget part the 97500

last year we were transferring that fund so they didn't have enough money so they were fund balance that's something we budget for we have not We're still in that phase. They haven't yet got it yet, but they're working on it. It's in progress. Okay. And that's for limited tax bonds.

Are you for this one. Sure, I can try my best from what I remember in my head. So, this particular one, the first one, the 2015 general obligation bond. So, in um in October of this year, we'll be making that principal and interest payment and then that bond will be paid off. So what's that mean to the res?

I can speak to that. So on finance, we talked finance comm. We talked a little bit about this. Um and this is for water and sewer bond. Correct. That's a that's a this one is a this is a general tax. The next two are water expiring. So essentially our original 42% roads and 50% water. Yes. This is the 2015.

So for the water and sewer um the original uh study that we we saw from plant man I don't know if the numbers are going to change but was something if I recall correctly they were advising over $20 million in spending for improvements and fixes to the current system. So there's going to have to be bonds there otherwise the system is going to basically deteriorate and you're not going to have a system anymore. Um, actually I can do this while we're So you're going to essentially be trading bonds. That's what I'm saying. I mean, is it going to keep going and we take care of that and then re something that we've talked about, right? That our infrastructure is

Oh, no. I'm not I'm not agreeing that. I was just curious of what if we don't have another thing that to go in place of that bond that we're paying off would happen. We'll lower rates. But if we have to put something there like i.e. refixing infrastructure, it's going to cost then we got to rebond that out. So where there's nothing change, it's just a go. Not necessarily. So I think we'll also be proposing some changes to how water uh sewers build out for uh what's now called the readiness to surf charge or coming up. So different basically different users that put different demand on the system will be more representative of

I think a good idea too. So, in theory, we haven't seen numbers yet, but you'd have to imagine the the bill will shift quite a bit because right now everyone pays the same amount no matter what you use. I've heard a lot of people say recently that they've seen their bills decrease. That would only be based on usage. I'm I don't I just heard it from Hey, we'll take it. We'll take it. Thank you.

I'm just hearing it from people, you know, my bill. So I I think that so what um you know I just I have municipal analytics slide that they had up there when they were talking about it and we we're going to talk more in depth about this. Um we in many ways we were waiting for um an outside analysis uh to provide us just more informed data when we were talking to the finance committee about how we're going to move forward. Again so everyone understands all of these debts were for previous things that already occurred like for improvements that were done several years ago in order for us to pay for those capital improvements. If we want to continue to make capital improvements to our system that is 30 years old uh or older in some areas, then we're going to have to um you know, as you see, we can uh we can adequately fund what our debt service costs are, but we're not going to be able to do new capital improvements in order to fix the infrastructure on the road to fix some of these INI issues that we have. Um to

So, just let me maybe make it a little bit easier. So, the Like as you saw, there was $975,000 that came out of the sewer fund to to finance for the lift station. Eventually, there's going to be no fund balance left. Your t So, what you're doing is you're kind of taking your savings and you're you're doing the capital improvement. Well, that's what we're trying to say is if you want to do any more capital improvements, as you saw Danny sit here last weekend and say we have 13 lift stations and four of them are in, you know, are e repair. So, at at 890,000 or $900,000 a piece. That fund balance is just gonna so you have to you have to get bonds to fund to do further projects.

I know there's putting stuff into the savings account once we deplete it then we don't have

Well, yeah. Exactly. So I and I think so there's certain contingents within the community that would say we'll just use your fund balance in order to pay for these expenses. The problem is what happens when we have an emergency that we need to repair something like that, you know, and if you have I mean Ortonville is an example of this right now where you know your checkbook's depleted and if you need to actually pay for any kind of expenses then you know the bond process isn't a quick process. So like you know if we had an emergency we have a our our skater system at the wastewater treatment plant is not working. We have to replace it. We have a Morrison Street pump station go down. we have to do a hundred,000 mil a million dollar repair. If we don't have that money to make that repair right then it might what we could do in maybe a month is going to take six months to get people water and sewer at their properties. So you have to maintain a fund balance in order to do some of these emergency repairs. Um

well it's just a smaller subsection of what we've done on large as a village, right? We were continually spending our savings as a village instead of bond and the infrastructure getting older and older and older. Again, it only lasts so long. Now, you're going to have to at some point start replacing things because again, it's just going to be in this roof on your house or whatever your shingles might be. And I think also, if I remember correctly, um the the rates that we're actually charging for bonds aren't even covering all the bonds. Correct. Correct. Right.

So, we're taking Yeah. So, we're not taking enough for the bond payments to begin with. So, the rates aren't covering it. So, um and that's one thing as we talked about the ready to serve charge and stuff because when we we were discussing um I know that there's people think, hey, well, we've paid off this bond or we're paying off this bond. The rate should drop. Well, the rates are in the totality of the bonds for the entire period, not for hey, you've paid off this bond, this one drops off or this. It's it's supposed to pay over the the lifespan of all of our bonds. So, that's what it's it's the payments, my understanding, are based upon that. One other ready to move on.

Still sewer, water and sewer. Um, has municipal analytics weighed in anything on about the uh pilot payments payment in le of taxes for our water and sewer? During initial conversations when we discussed it, he uh was not a fan. He thought there were other oper options that would be a better way to move forward with uh getting similar reimbursements. Um, but I can't off the top of my head I can't remember exactly what those were. I would rather him when he comes to talk to finance committee I'd rather just have those direct conversations with him. Um I we did we did discuss pilot. Okay. Um but his initial thinking about it though there's still Yeah. His initial reaction was I think there's better ways to move forward other than pilot. So perfect.

Yeah. So that first one zeroed out after the October 1st interest payment. That was for the general obligation limited tax bond. The next one is zeroed out after the October 1st 27 payment. That's for the water supply revenue refunding bond. And then the next one, the wastewater is zeroed out after the interest payment in October 1st or was zeroed out

after 25. So I think we can combine those while we talk about them. Um, anything else that council has questions about, comments? Couldn't some of those bonds now be transferred into repairing roads? What's that? That would be your local water. You would need a different Yeah. Or or roads or we could either do bonding out for that or you could do like a roads millillage and have people vote on that.

I'm just saying that these one of these bonds paid off like 414 $4.1 million. We're Now, could we bond that out to or do we still have to use that as a water? Well, what we're saying is we need that for future infrastructure needs like when gave us our report saying you know like $20 million to do this road north road a pump station and I think there's another road I think was saying that we needed $20 million just for water. So even though million You still need 20 million. Oh, I No, I understand. I know. I know. I wanted to make sure that we were

you can't spend water sewer money on. Yeah. And that and that figure just so they're not saying we can't do a a bond for roads. I'm just saying we can reopen the bond back up to the water. It would not be reopening the the same bond. It would be getting meant by reopening because we're we're paying back money we already our options here with these ones it sounds like is continue the bonds or allow the system to fail and kick the can down the road to do that. I think we said we will have a discussion too about what bonds to do. So it's not going to be plantar can come back and say in the perfect world this is what you need and we might say well this isn't a perfect world and that's not well it won't be point um

then you got the schedule of principal and interest requirements any questions comments well what was the capital improvement on that bond that we did that 2021 Yeah.

Was that was that it rates were lower that time?

Yeah, a little bit before us. That'd be what 22, but I know it was a refinance. So, we just took a bond to lower Tim, did you want to speak on the special assessment?

Sure. Um, you know, I think that we saw actually, let's go back to our municipal analytic side, right? Um, we we saw this on Tuesday. We didn't talk about it too much, but just I think it's important for us to look at um you know what would have happened if we didn't do the special assessment last year like on the screen. All right, we would have bottom out this year and you know but I think an important thing for us to look at is um I need to give you a pointer. That's right.

I can be loud too. So that the amount that we did on the special assessment, all right, this is um you know our target fund balance minimum, we're kind of right underneath it. Um what this tells me is the way that we did obviously we didn't want to be there but the amount that we did was kind of almost exactly where you say there there is without

that's without the special assessment. This is where we would be like right now you know obviously just you know going down. So this is where we are right now with the special assessment and we're just right under where we want to be with fund balance. All right. This is if we continued on the special assessment amount or got the same amount of revenue another way which idea. Um so we're we're okay. We we bought ourselves breathing room. Obviously if we were way above our target fund balance minimum we'd be taking too much in like we'd be taking more than is needed. Um obviously our expenditures could increase we get additional services but this is just keeping us health like you know where we need to be. So if we you know projected out we didn't have the expenditures have anything basically that bought us breathing room on to 2037. Um our current way that we had done the special assessment was for a 5year period. until we make different changes in revenue. If we got rid of the special assessment, we'd be right back where we were um where we would have been without it. I think it's obvious that we have to maintain it for the foreseeable period until we have another way to make up the difference in revenue or else we're cutting services whether it's a road back.

What's that? Can we do a road back? Where is we can do we can do a heady override. Um, and that would reset our um it would reset our it would go to a vote for the people and it would reset our millage rate to um where we started which was 20 20 mills. Uh we wouldn't have to charge 20 mills but it would be the maximum that we could. Now we look at it and we would say all right based on this rather than you know being at uh this next year 10.56 whatever the number will be um we would go just it's essentially the same thing.

Shannon and I were having a discussion about that the other day. Do you does anyone on council feel like we have the trust from the public to manage our money with a headley roll back or a Hley override? So the difference with the special assessment is this special assessment is for police and fire. That money can only be spent on police and fire. We can't say oh we need it for water sewer. Oh, I need this instead for roads. It can only be spent for police and fire with a heavy roll back. It does change our mill rate which then opens up money that can be spent other ways. But yeah, and I'm gonna go back to my seat so I can Yeah, appreciate that.

No, I think Yeah, again I think that is what the people have been asking for, right? Is for them to be able to make the choice, right? And so I guess that will be up to them on whether they want a community that thrives or that I mean I say we I say I mean it was me I'd say we just we told we'd look into it in a year which is about what we got to do now we say okay we put it to a vote well and so I think that but then we got to go back for special assessment

I don't think we I mean we have currently we're going to have to continue on the special assessment like we have to I mean in my opinion we're going to have to continue to do this until we make up another decision. So if we do a headly override or something like that, if we able to get approval of that, then we can remove the special assessment and go from there. Right now, we don't have that. If I'm speaking completely candidly, I think and you know when we asked if if we had trust in the community, you know, James is back there and he and so I I I I truly think that there's so, you know, as we're looking at with municipal analytics, there's other ways that we're going to be able to increase uh money or or revenue such again I think I I you know, I talk about city hood a lot. I think that is in ways that already that accomplishes what a headly override would do, but it also allows us additional revenue streams. It fixes a lot of things for us. I think if we work if we were to work hard on a Headley override um by the reaction that I just got there and the I think that it's first of all, I think it's doomed to fail. Um and I think that it also is would uh remove any political capital we would have in promoting something like cityhood or something like that. So, um I I I do think it needs to go up to a vote of the people. I think that it needs to I think that we're still in like the emergency uh um mode right now where we're hey keeping our head above water. This is what keeps our head above water as we move forward. We need to look at all right proposing cityhood uh that needs to go through its whole processes. But Jim Yeah.

Well, I was just wondering how this is any I was mimic my mean to myself preparing the question. So, I wasn't trying to interrupt you there, but All right. Okay. Um, the township does a special assessment, too. So, it's it's not unheard of. I mean, they do one for public safety, and theirs is more than ours. For just fire. Exactly. And they do review it. Sorry. They review it every year just as we would. And that is so you're not collecting more than you need.

Yeah. I don't have anything against keeping the public safety special assessment um going after cityhood. Headley override's an option, but I I also agree that I I think it's doomed to fail as well. But we have another option because the the other big thing that needs to be taken care of is the road. So there's bonding or there's a mill right now. How does bonding work? Is that a vote or is that like of the people or a vote of the council? Um I mean you could go about it a couple different ways. So um usually it would be a vote of the council, but there there could be um I think all the other bonds here have been council council approval over the years.

Madam President, I hate to stop real quick, but I want to go back to the head the uh set thing because we did make a promise to our our citizens that we would look into it each year. And I would I mean we're doomed to fail, yes, but that's that projection is running all the way up to 2047. Yeah. Our special assessment district's only for five years. I want to make sure that our citizens know know that we're not going to try to, you know, over extend what we did offer what we did.

I I think the diff so the difference between um Headley and a Headley override and the cityhood thing truthfully for me is because a Headley override would um it would allow us to reset things, but it wouldn't allow us for additional streams of income that would be able to have us lower the taxes for residents. idea for us is to lower their taxes taxes overall to create more uh options for revenue. If we can do that, if override is not going to fix anything, I mean it will fix things as far as

how much we can we can bring in to cover for those services, but it doesn't fix things for our residents. The cityhood thing actually addresses that where it allows us to get more revenue in from not only having a increased taxable value from you know surrounding areas and it increases our state revenue sharing all these other things. Um it allows us to essentially lower the taxable respon tax responsibility for our residents and that's the idea of what to do. A Headley override would allow us to all that does is allow us to charge more and that's

and that's not the idea is we don't want to we don't want to have to charge more. We want to be able to get more revenue in from other means that that we can cover the expenses for them. Um and that so that is why I believe us putting our energy into cityhood is a lot better for our residents than putting it all into a headly override. Um now could we go for a headley override? Of course we could. I mean, that's something if that's the direction council wants to go, that's fine. I do not think that's in the best interest of our residents over a longer long term period. I I just think that because we're going to just have to charge higher taxes and that's not what we want to do. We want to be able to lower taxes but increase services and the only way we're going to do that is by doing some uh changing the way we do things.

Okay. And what's your opinion on roads? I have one more thing. Um for me, I'm in disagreement on that process. It's From my understanding of it, we're just pushing our problems onto a bigger population. Why do you feel involving our citizens, but now we're adding all those additional taxes onto the people that brought it? I feel like we're giving those people who are on the border services and and we have a budget that's completely manageable. They also get a chance to vote. So, they can choose that. Nobody is taking away their right to vote. I mean right now

it's up for them to make a decision. Do they want police and firep?

I do have a question. Is being able to put forth a road something that could happen in the next few months for like a November election? What is the timeline for a mill? Because I do think that is something the voters should vote on, right? Let's send it out to our neighbors. Do we want to fix these streets? We don't have the money to fix them right now, but if we did do a village of some sort and they want to vote on it, can we make that at an election time? I have um let me grab for my office. I have election the time tables. Okay. I mean, this is uh I don't know. Let me grab this.

I'll add the reminder for for those watching that there's never been a line item for bigger road repairs. There's been a line item to you know do hot and cold patching and that's it. So this is something we could have added to our savings over the time but we don't have one. So we just have to correct course now one way or the other or you know sink holes I don't know. This is not an issue that's going away. Yeah. just your current single.

We have to have there's there's different timelines for um when you need like different ballot language on and all the and sinkholes is not um fear-mongering. There is a sinkhole by Johnny's Auto Body Garage. That's the only one that I've been made aware of so far. Yeah, I'm sure if there's one there's more. So cones can only handle sink holes for so long till they fall. There's I mean there's 20 pages of deadlines up there. So it's probably take a little bit I didn't like that post. I don't know where it was at. I can hand this over to hand this over to one of the

Somebody went through and put cones and all the ples here. I was like, man, if they did that here, we'd be out. We wouldn't have no cones. I don't think there's Well, there might be one of us who live on a road that isn't crumbling. So, it's not as if we don't unfortunately. I think I'm the only one. Your road isn't crumbling. What kind of special treatment do you get? I goty it all.

I I have to drive down Oakland or North. Either way, I go like this. Do you know how many times I've been pulled over? Well, now you guys can, you know, when they don't put your garbage cans out on the curb, they leave them in the roadway. Now you can dodge potholes and garbage. Listen, throw the garbage cans into the pothole. It's bad. take you back to your police uh driving training. I always I always said my road's good because the sewer treatment plants on the end of it. They want to make sure the crap goes away. Jeep Wrangler is not looking like a bad investment right now. Oh no,

he drives a little car. So I I'm sorry, Thomas. I forgotten. What are we looking for right now? Ballot language time. Oh, got it. question about I do I do like the way you put that together how you said for us to do the a set of the millage on the road I think that'd be better than trying to have the road back or something like that because I think we get I think we get better just also too for if we do a mill on streets it can only be spent on streets exactly that we can say like oh

and those are two different problems we're talking two there's two different conversations a heavily roll uh takes care of the general fund considerations we have. Road millage is only used for road millage. There's like it doesn't fix our place fire service issues and things we have. All it would be is additional taxes residents are paying for uh on for all these other things but doesn't fix our basically we had the rolled back to let's say like you had said 14 mills whatever it is we could special assessment the same way that way it goes to with our special assessment we're currently collecting 14 mills so that no not four oh okay total total not special I was just picking

number it's whatever it's 4.1 for the special assessment and then for the regular bills it's just under 11. I was just paid on their taxes 11.3254. Okay. Then they for

I was just I was trying to say is I was just I just brought the roll back just because I' heard before I wanted to make sure. So, we're still I think a break would be good. We're still Daniel. I didn't mean to. We're still recording. Let's take a break. We're on break.

We are live.

Okay, we're live. Um, courses of action. We've kind of been discussing that. Uh, Councilman Ryan saw that if we wanted to consider a millillage, we have to for the November ballot, we'd have to have our the submission in by August 11th. If we wanted to do the primary, it would have to be in by April 28th. So, that's just not going to happen, right? But, yeah, we can look at and that's fine. We we need time to study this anyways. Um, we want to do the election. So, it wouldn't have additional cost for us to run This saves a lot of money. Yeah, I think so, too. We want more people to be able to go there.

They went on the primary, would it would if they voted if it passed, it would be pass. I think do you have to have a certain percentage of the population show up to vote for it to count? Because I know that's how the research. No, I think Well, we're not worried about that because it's going to be at the November one anyway. I was I was just asking just so we so people would be known. Okay. Any any final questions, gang? Okay. This meeting's adjourned. Hi. Hi. Huh? Jim, you got closed.