Planning Board - Regular Meeting

all that. Hopefully someone will show there. We got We're good to go. And we're good. Mr. Corren good. Good afternoon. My name is Chris Leak. I'm chair of the city county planning board. I'd like to welcome everyone to our April 10th meeting. Would you please stand and join us in the pledge of allegiance? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. [Music] You okay? [Music] Today's meeting is being broadcast is being broadcast live on TV13 and will be rebroadcast at 10:00 a.m. Friday morning and again at 400 p.m. Sunday afternoon. Our first order of business today will be the consent agenda. These are items for which the petitioner is requesting withdrawal or continuence or items for which staff has recommended approval and no one has signed up to speak in opposition. For our public hearings today, each side will have a total of 12 minutes. There will be no rebuttal period. Once the public hearing is closed and the board goes into work session, no one is permitted to speak unless a planning board member addresses them for a question. For general use district zoning request, the planning board must consider the full range of uses allowed in the zoning district being requested. The petitioner may not

refer to a specific use for the property. For special use district zoning requests, however, the petitioner must identify the intended use or uses of the site and give specific details on how the site will be developed. Items under section B of the agenda will require final action by the appropriate elected body, either the city council or county commissioners. As such, votes taken today by the planning board concerning these items are recommendations that will be considered by the elected bodies during their review of the request. Before addressing the planning board today, we will need your name, address, and zip code for the record. Our first item of business is the approval of the minutes of the March 13th and March 27th meetings. Is there a motion? Move approval. Second. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second by Mr. Grubs. Any discussion? All those in favor? Sign of I. I. Oppose the same sign. That is unanimous. Thank you. uh like to honor the presence of uh one of our council members, Vivian Jordy. Good to see you. Am I missing any other council members? All right. I'm now going to call on Mr. Mark Allred to go over the consent agenda. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First up we have is item B2. This is W3645. This is petitioners Carolyn Long and Brian S. Long. They asked for a withdrawal eight days or more prior to this meeting. So it is automatically withdrawn. Next is item B5. This is F1392. This is a final development plan in MUS two-phase. The petitioner is requesting a continuence, but he did it less than 8 days prior to the planning board. So I will need a vote by the planning board to motion to continue to May the 8th. I want to make a motion on that. Mr. Chairman, I'd move that we continue to the next meeting. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second, second by Mr. Grubs. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I oppose the same sign that is

unanimous. Case is continued. So B1 is not on consent. We do have opposition. So the next case I have is B3. This is W3646. The petitioner is 104 Progress LLC and 104 Progress Court 2 LLC. This is a general business special use reszoning to general business limited use. The petitioner is wanting to add the use recreational services indoor. As you can see on the location map, um where's my pointer? As you can see on the location map, there's general business to the west, north, and east, and general industrial to the south. Um from the aerial, you can see this is already a developed site. Again, there's not going to be any changes to the site itself. This is just an added use of recreational services indoor. to the west, north and east, these are already developed sites and to the south you see a vacant general industrial site. The area plan which is a north suburban area plan recommends commercial for this site. Um the request is consistent with both forward 2045 and again a north suburban area plan and staff recommends approval. Any questions? Any questions for staff? All right, no one has signed up in opposition. Is anyone here opposed to this recommendation? Seeing no one, I declare a public hearing closed. What is a motion of the board? Mr. Chairman, I move the planning board find that the request is consistent with a comprehensive plan. Second motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Grubs. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I oppose the same sign. That is unanimous. Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board recommend approval of W3646. Have a motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Grubs. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I. I oppose the same sign. That is unanimous. Okay. Okay. This is this is also has opposition. It's not going to be on

consent. Y and next is the one that you continue to made the 8th. Almost there. Okay. So, the next item up is C1. This is PBR 2025-05. This is Cathedral Oak Academy. This is for a private school use and institutional and public. See on a location map to the north, east and west is resident RS9 and to the south is institutional public. This site already has an existing school on it. Not school, uh church, sorry, existing church. As you can see, they are using all the facilities from the existing church. So the buildings and everything are already existing the parking area. So this site plan does meet UDO requirements and staff does recommend approval. Move approval. Second. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second, Mr. Grubs. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I I oppose the same sign. That passes unanimously. Okay. So, next is item C2. This is PBR 2025-06. This is a metallark subdivision. I do want to apologize because the agenda is going to have some different information, but I'll explain why in a second. So, this is a 137 lot PRD and RS9 at a 70.77 acres. So, you can see up here there's a portion of site here that says to be excluded. So, you see this creek. it it wasn't feasible for them to connect this property the rest of this development. They're going to have to connect to the north. This is about approximately 4 1/2 acres. So on your agenda it'll say 75 acres, but if you take that out, that's your 70.77. They also added a lot 100 lot 137 which is positioned right there beside that activity center. So again, this is a 137 lot PRD that's connected to the south to the subdivision to the south. There is five active open spaces in this development. um all pedestrian connected together and to the existing uh pedestrian walkway that's along Metal Art Drive. Um this site does meet all UDO requirements and staff recommends approval. Move approval. Second. Motion

by Mr. Lamb. Second by Mr. Grubs. Any discussion? All those in favor? Sign of I. I the same sign. That is unanimous. All right. So next up will be Rory Howard and he'll present the um W203. Once I figure this out. Sorry, Rory. [Music] All right. Good evening everyone. Uh, this first case here is case W2 or yeah, 1203. The petitioner is Wellorn Real Estate LLC and the property is a 2.1 acre piece of land located at the northwest intersection of Peters Creek Parkway and West Clemensville Road. The petitioners are requesting a final development plan for the use of outdoor display retail uh in an HBS twophase zoning district. As you can see here, the property is located uh in GMA3 suburban neighborhoods. In this location map, you can see that there are commercial uses to the north and the east, which are also part of the W1203 resoning case. And you can see residential uses to the west and to the south. the aerial image, you'll see that uh there's one entrance to this property uh from the retail section to the north. Uh and the property is not being planned to be accessed via this ramp or by West Clemensville Road. If we look at this area plan map for the south suburban area plan, we can

see that the property recommends commercial as does the rest of the reszoning. uh the properties within the resoning. Uh and the property is also within the uh the Peters Creek Parkway growth corridor. Here's a picture looking east into the subject property from the Peters Creek Parkway exit ramp. Here's a picture looking east into the subject property from the Peters Creek Parkway exit ramp. So looking with into the property uh looking at the parcel to the north of the subject property. Subject property in the is in the foreground. So, this is the outdoor display retail that the subject property will be connected to and that the outdoor display retail will use this subject property. And finally, uh here is an image looking west from the subject property across the Peters Creek Parkway exit ramp. The subject property is in the foreground. So if we look at this uh the proposed site plan here, we can see that this is a new 169 space parking lot. No prop new proposed buildings that will be used by the existing outdoor display retail property to the north. Um there is a 10 foot there will be a 10-ft streetyard proposed along the Peters Creek Parkway exit ramp. And we're also conditioning that the developers extend the public sidewalk from the north of the property here and from the south and west Clemensville Road also across the front of this exit ramp. Um I do think also that it's important to point out the um expanded uh enhanced buffer yard uh that is along the western property boundary. Uh this this uh enhanced buffer yard was part uh was a condition of the original resoning and it required that instead of the regular buffer yard that there be a

double row of evergreens 10 ft on center with the second row staggered off center of the first row and that's what the developers have provided. Otherwise uh the rest of the site plan meets all UDO requirements. Uh in summary, the request is consistent with the general recommendations of ford 2045, the south suburban area plan update and the Peters Creek Parkway growth corridor plan. Uh the request would allow for commercial informal development along a designated growth corridor and the site plan improves the aesthetics of the Peters Creek Parkway growth corridor by developing uh an empty site. Therefore, the site plan meets UDO requirements and staff recommends approval. I can take any questions at this time. Any questions for staff? Yes, I live in the program. I'm sorry, sir. No, no, I'm sorry. Not yet. Yeah. Any questions from staff? No. Storm water control device. Is there one? Oh, apologies. Yes, sir. There is one storm water control device uh proposed that'll be located under this section of the parking lot here. Thanks. Yes, sir. All right. Thank you. All right. All right, so we will have a public hearing on this. Again, each side will have a total of 12 minutes to uh speak. There will be no rebuttal period. Uh when you approach the podium, please state your name, address, and zip code for the record. Um in support, we have I think this is Scott Miller and Austin Cole or Cook. If you state comes to the podium, state your name and address and zip code and tell us about your case. Thank you, council member, planning board members. Uh my name is Scott Miller. I'm president of MLA Design Group, uh landscape architecture, land planning firm here in here in town. Um I am uh at 5603 Hundley Road, Winston

Salem, North Carolina 27106. Thank you. Um I really don't have too much more to add unless you have questions. Um we'll be happy to to answer any. Uh do have uh the owner's representative Austin Cole here with me should there be uh any questions directed to us with regards to the site plan or or anything, but I think everything is pretty self-explanatory on the plan. Does anyone have any questions for Mr. Miller? All right. Thank you. Thank you. Um how much time do we have left? All of it. Uh we had 11 minutes. 11 minutes. All right. Would anyone else like to speak in support of this case? Are are we talking about this one? Yes, sir. Are are you here in support? Um, no. Okay. All right. With questions. Okay. All right. Anyone else like to speak in support? All right. We'll now turn to opposition. It looks like we have I think this is Steve Lawing. Stephen. Okay. If you would state your name, address, and zip code for the podium, please. My name is Steven Lawing. I live at 3501 Birchfield Drive, which is directly to the west of this property. Uh 27127 is my is my zip code. All right. Um I am not in opposition to to this happening. I am in opposition to any lighting that is going to be facing west into our neighborhood. And this was the question that I had for you is what are your proposed lighting um plans? If they're if they're I have no problem with you lighting because I understand it's a car dealership and y'all got they've got to protect their assets, but I am opposed to it coming right into my windows. So, okay. Thank you. We'll get that. See, we still have time. Is anyone else here to speak in opposition against this case? Mr. Murphy, do we have any um

information on the lighting? Full cut off fixtures are going to be required, aren't they? [Music] Yeah, the question was are there any lighting standards? And there is a lighting plan that's required to be submitted. The you basically you have to use full cut off fixtures. There can't be u the the half foot candle at the property line is the maximum amount of light that can be spilling over onto the property. Now, if you're on the property, you might be able to look up and see the light, but there can't be any direct cast lighting onto the property. There are some other standards, things in here that gets into bug rate and some very technical things. Essentially, what happens is when someone is applying for a permit, they hire a lighting professional that submits a plan. Normally, most folks use Duke Power because they're normally the folks that supply the lights. They'll do a lighting plan and then basically they certify that the lighting plan built matches what was submitted for uh approval. And again, we we would ensure that the cut off lights and all those kind of things are in there. So, it would not spill over onto the property. And you might want to um give a definition of full cut off for layman's terms. Can't see a bowl, ma'am. Excuse me. Um, if you're going to address the podium, I'm going to have you come up, but give us one second. I'll get to you in one second. Thank you. Chris, you want to I'm not a lighting expert. I can't provide a definition of what that is. Essentially, basically, it basically forces the light to be cast downward. I can't I don't know if there's a definition in our ordinance or not. Like older street light shoe box style lights. That's not a cut off cuz the bulb is facing up and out. This is a facing downward light. Go ahead. So, Mr. Fabby. Basically, there's a the manufacturer's glare control package adds what is essentially a metal plate

to the rear of the light fixture that keeps the bulb from kind of illuminating at that angle. Uh, as Mr. Murphy mentioned earlier, the bug rating stands for backlight, uplight, and glare. And there's basically standards in that rating that prescribe the conditions that those types of adverse lighting can spill out of the fixture. So, that's that's essentially what's going on here. Okay. Okay. All right. Ma'am, if you could uh come to the podium, please, and state your name, address, and zip code for the record. Mark, can you pull that down for me? Yes, ma'am. Hello, my name is Susan Benjamin. My address is 3515 Birchfield Drive, and you're in my backyard. And your zip code? 327127. Thank you. Yes. Let us know what you would like because you were getting ready. I would like a real explanation of what you're doing. You guys have not given that. That's all I'm saying. You talk about that you're going to do trees. Obviously, you're buffering for something. So, what are you putting there? Because when I go out to my backyard, people can come up the ramp actually and I can see the cars coming up. I don't like that you already cleared off everything and you put asphalt there. It was nice and green. Now it's asphalt. I assume you're going to put more asphalt and more cars or whatever. We already have a car lot there. What are you going to do? Just be more specific about explaining what you're going to do. You keep going around with we're going to do this. It's, you know, it's all in busy speak. I don't understand that. You need to tell me what you're going to do in my backyard. That's all I'm saying. All right,

Mr. Chairman, if if if I could, the Keep in mind the the number of this case is case W1203. Right. The the reszoning decision to reszone this commercial was made in 1984. Uh, this property has been zoned commercial since 1984, but the concept is a two-phase petition. And what that means is that the re that the zoning was set in 1984 when the overall shopping center was reszoned. But this was an area that had no specific plan of approval. It was a blank slate and it's been sitting there like that since 1984. The site plan that was before you that was recently displayed up there is their plan of development and essentially the use is outdoor display retail and that essentially means it's going to be a car sales facility. The site plan shows and that that's what a cutoff white looks like. Going back to an earlier question, the site plan in question is essentially a parking lot for hund and some odd cars that will be for sale. It shows the landscaping and it shows the buffer. That is the use. So again, the the the action that's being asked here today is to do a planning board review and approval of a final development plan for a reasonzoning that was approved 40 years ago. And that's so in other words, the HBS zoning has been there since 1984. This property has been vacant since 1984. Uh they started some work out there prematurely without getting the necessary permits. They're in here to rectify that. Now, that's what this action is doing is approving this final development plan. And what will be on the site and what will be constructed is that parking lot right there with the landscaping that goes along with it. Okay.

Thank you. Uh the lighting, were you going to address that again? I see you were getting ready to say something. Oh, no. I was just going to tell you we had 10 minutes and 15 minutes. Okay. All right. Uh we have 10 minutes left. Would anyone else like to speak in opposition? Hopefully, Miss Benjamin, your question was addressed. Mr. Law, your your your question was addressed. We have 10 minutes left. If anyone else would like to speak in opposition, if you state your name, address, and zip code for the record. My name is Vivian Joiner. Um 101 North Main Street, Winston Salem, 27101. Um my concern would be how you get 60 plus vehicles in and out of that lot. Um since there is no independent exit in and out from Peters Creek Parkway, um there's several of the several other businesses there and it gets a little bottleneck with the uh drugstore and and the business directly beyond the drugstore and even just coming through uh Arby's parking. So that would be a concern. um that I think that the residents directly involved would be having an issue with and I have an issue too as being a neighbor in that area. Let's see. Mr. Already, are you going to address that? Yeah, I'm pulling up the aerial to help address her question. Well, while Mr. All red's pulling that up. Uh board members, the primary access or really the sole access in this cake is case is through a cross access easement that's

already exists through the CVS property uh through the ABC store and to the uh automobile dealership in question. Mark, if you want to show where we're talking about with your cursor where the automobile building cross means. Basically, it's a recorded uh pathway through a parking lot that allows traffic to have a legal means of access. And uh as Mr. Alred's showing on the slide, there is a right in right out connection onto Peters Creek Parkway. So, what would likely happen as folks are test driving the vehicles is they would take a right, get on Peters Creek Parkway, and when they come back after their test drive, they would be probably heading north on Peters Creek and do a U-turn uh at the light with South Park Boulevard and enter the site via the same CVS entrance. So hopefully uh as as council member Joiner mentioned, Arby's and the Wendy's there would not be affected by this since there is a more direct connection. Thank you. How much time do we have left? Uh let me pull the timer up here. We have 9 minutes and 20 seconds. All right, we have 9 minutes and 20 seconds. Would anyone else like to state any opposition to this case or questions? All right, seeing no one, I declare the public hearing closed. Any discussion or is someone ready to make a motion on this case? Um, I just wanted to say I think it's a good thing for the neighbors to come out and speak their concerns and to ask for clarification because all of us can get used to this. Yeah. and the language and the vocabulary and forget that everybody

does not know what everybody's talking about. So, thank you for asking your question. And Mr. Chairman, I I didn't mean to Oh, no, no, you're fine. Okay. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I move the planning board find you move up to your mic. I'm sorry. Uh, I move the planning board find that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Second. Have a motion by Mr. Lamb. Excuse me. A second by Mr. Grubs. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I oppose the same sign that is unanimous. Mr. Chairman, I further move that the planning board approve the final development plan for W1203. Motion for final approval by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Grubs. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I oppose the same sign. Motion passes. Thank you. If anyone needs to leave on this case before we go to the next case, feel free. We'll take a 40 second reprieve so people can leave. Yes sir. Yes sir. So, uh, the second case here today is F1657. Uh, the petitioners are Tanya and Leslie Hardy. The property is a 27.89 acre site located along the east side of Hastings Road between Interstate 74 and High Point Road. Is this the one that we moved 1657? Isn't that the one we moved for next week or next meeting? No. No, that would have been 1392. Okay. Sorry. Okay. I marked it off as you

might check the minutes because I think there were some issues. The the agenda was in the the the materials in the book were correct. The agenda was incorrect as far as the order. This case was always case five. Okay. So, so what's what is continuing? the 1392 the the Brookberry case 1657 phase seven of Brookberry was continued to your May meeting. Got it. Okay. All right. Thank you. The item on Hastings Road 1657 is being heard now. Got it. Now, thank you. Okay. Um the petitioners here are requesting so a special use reszoning from AG to RM5S uh specifically a town home development. If you see here on the overall legacy map the subject property is located in GMA3 suburban neighborhoods in close to the southeastern corner of the county. So, if you look at the location map here, you will see that the property is directly adjacent to the Union Crossroad High Point Road activity center to the north and northwest, which is meant for a variety of commercial and residential uses. Uh to the south, directly to the south of the property is Interstate 74. And you also see here uh there is a neighborhood across High Point Road that is Weatherstone. is an RM8S uh zoned property uh which has both single family and town home usages. So looking at the aerial image here, I will just call once again call into the into your attention the

interstate on the southern section of the property as well as Union Cross Elementary School to the northwest of the subject property and the Carolina Leadership Academy to the northeast of the subject property. So looking at the southeast foresight county area plan update, uh the plan recommends for large lot residential. Um it is re it was currently recommended as large lot residential because of the existing agricultural use and also because of the lack of public sewer that was available at the time this plan was put together. Um the developers are can uh are proposing a public water and sewer connection to the property as I will uh display later in the site plan. And of course you can see here the property is adjacent to activity center. So here's a picture looking north and Hastings Road. Subject property is to the right. You can see up here, let me just get my pointer out. Uh you will see here Union uh Union Cross Elementary School. Uh it's right over there. Uh looking east from the subject property from Hastings Road, you can see the existing uh agricultural use. Looking south on Hastings Road, subject property is to the left. And looking west from the subject property across Hastings Road. Now, here is uh the current site plan, and I want to call a few uh a few important factors to your attention. The first is that this is a 138 proposed town home unit. There are two connections to Hastings Road, uh, two internal streets being proposed, and an overall density of 4.95 units per acre. There is one centrallylo 15,000 ft² common recreation area with a connection

to a 19 lot overflow parking area. Um there is as I referenced earlier there so there is public water that exists along Hastings Road and public sewer is proposed to be provided to the property as well via an access easement off High Point Road. Uh and finally, there are two storm water devices proposed. One to the west central area of the subject property and one here at the northeast corner of the subject property. Here are the proposed elevations for the town home development. So in summary, given that this site lies within GMA3 and is proposed to have access to both public water and public sewer, the request is therefore consistent with the general recommendations of legacy 2030 to allow residential development uh at a density of 0 to 8 units per acre in the serviceable land area. Uh the request also conforms with legacy 2030 in providing a variety of housing types throughout the county. And in addition, the request would allow for needed housing units not only uh near two schools um and an existing activity center, but also in a growing area near major employers. So therefore, uh the site plan meets new requirements and staff recommends approval. and I'll take any questions at this time. Are there any questions for Mr. Howard at this time? All right. Thank you. So, we will have a public hearing in this case. Again, um as a reminder, each side will have a total of 12 minutes to speak. There will be no rebuttal period. As you approach the podium, please state your name, address, and zip code for the record. First, we

have the proponents in favor. We have Greg Garrett, Vincent, I'm sorry, Vince Townsen and Leslie Hardy. Mr. Gio, would you want me to open next? All right, I got to get my timer going. I don't see it anywhere here. So, okay. So, um, good afternoon. My name is Greg Garrett and I'm the owner of Braxton Real Estate and Development Company, which is the petitioner for the subject site that's before you this afternoon. Um, I have been developing communities and Sorry, Mr. Greg. Can you give us your uh address? Absolutely. Sorry. Thank you. 6420 Hampton Null Road. That's Clemens 27012. Thank you. I've been developing properties in uh the Triad for the past um 25 plus years and um have done similar similar communities as the one before you today. Um and they've been very successful and um came across this opportunity and I've been working with the planning staff for about 6 months on this. It's it's had a lot of iterations. Um but I'm pleased to to be here today and and tell you more about it. Um it is 138 two-story town houses. They're for sale. This is not planned to be a rental community. This is for um people that are in the workforce that are looking to um have housing and um there's there's so many business parks in this area and um there's just a tremendous need for housing and so that's what we have in mind here. Why town homes? Well, um it is actually a way to get to the affordable um price point these days.

Land and infrastructure um are are just um very very expensive. And so this is um a good good way to to bring housing in at a price that's uh achievable achievable for um people that are in the workforce. And so, um, that's why we have that, um, product, um, proposed for the the project. Um, I would like to, you know, again, who knows by the time we actually start building where the where the affordable price point is, but, at this point, it looks like it'll these these town homes are going to sell uh, starting off in the 300. So, um I know for most people that's hard to fathom that that's the new affordable, but um that's that's a reality um that we live with these days. Um but anyways, I would love to share with you um my site plan that has been colored up um for um Did I get the right one? There we go. Okay, you can zoom out at the top. Could you center the Oh, yes, sir. So, one of the unique features about the proposed development is we're we are proposing over 75% open space. I'll say that again in a different way. Twothirds of this property will be unbuilt upon. Twothirds much of the pasture area, particularly what is bordering Highway uh 74 will be left um as as currently um you know pasture land. Um of course um we have the homes kind of clustered up more into

the center of the property. So all that will be developed but then um where it's not built upon it will be um grass back over. So, I I like this this slide because it illustrates just how um open the project's going to be. Another um important characteristic about this um property um is that we're actually I believe and my engineers here Vincent Towns and he can verify this but um we're actually I think going to be improving the storm water situation. As I did neighborhood work, um both of the churches um that adjoined the property expressed concerns about storm water and we had noticed that as well. There's a at the uh I guess the north uh east corner there you see the big uh blue um pond. um that feeds into a pretty pretty uh distinct um drainage feature that uh has had a decent amount of erosion over the years. And what this pond is going to do is hold water and release it um over time um so when it rains it doesn't all just go right into the natural drainage features. And this is something that's not required in this watershed. Um but it's something that we felt would um one of the ways that we're trying to uh soften the impact of this uh development on the on the neighborhood. So I do do believe it will actually probably help the situation. Uh even though we're creating more builtupon area, the pond's designed to really hold uh a lot of that runoff, the initial, you know, runoff. that's not all going to go straight to the uh drainage areas. So, if you have more questions about that, we'll we'll definitely bring the civil engineer up to to answer your questions on that. Um

I did I did spend quite a bit of time reaching out to the neighborhood and um for the most part, it's really kind of an unusual situation. I'm I am um in my 500 ft radius. I have two two schools and two churches. And so they represent uh the line share of the the 500 foot radius uh property owners. There are definitely some that um individuals that back up to the property and I even uh went door to door, left notes on the door just so we could have conversations and and I'm uh thankful that most of those individuals I was able to speak to. um and their their concerns were more around buffering because they adjoin the property. And as you look at the site plan that's up on the screen, you can see that we have a required buffer yard. And so I believe that that's going to really help um soften the blow. As a matter of fact, it will and you know help because most of this property doesn't have trees. So you'll have more screening than they had before. Um, so that that's a positive aspect to this project. Um, then um as I did neighborhood work, I learned about um a group that had assembled that was organized and and so that was the reason for the first continuence cuz I wanted to make sure that we had time to um to converse over the proposed project. And um it was in that meeting that I learned just how concerned the folks were about traffic. And I'd like to emphasize this. This is an existing condition. Um I have a a traffic engineer that's already started to work on this project uh looking into the to the traffic counts. Um and he

informed me that the um the number of cars um on Hastings Road south of Interstate 74 is only 400. Now what we don't know is how much is Union Union Cross Elementary driving. And that's what I've I've hired a traffic engineer to study and to um give us concrete um data about what are those traffic patterns and make recommendations of what can be done to help that situation. I don't know that that's something that this project can can bear, but I think it's it would be good to just get a professional to look at it and give give folks ideas about how it could be improved. Um, so that was one of the things I did in response to my uh meeting with the neighborhood group. Um, and then the second thing that was expressed is they're very concerned about this development pattern coming on down Hastings Road. And if you could do that, um, do the sanitary sewer. Yes, sir. And so, you know, I've been developing property for a long time. I generally know where the sewer trunk lines are and um and what I've explained is that this property is totally different from anything else on Hastings Road because you can actually get into the uh sewer with with gravity. Um so no pump no pump stations needed. There's also water public water in front of the property. Um, is there a pointer that I can Anyways, this is a sewer map and and it just shows you um where the um where the the trunk lines are. Do you have a pointer? Yeah.

Oh, okay. So, you're on the PDF. You're just going to have to use the mouse and do that. Okay. So, I peak is us and then this is Hastings Road and this is this big area that's mostly agricultural and the area that folks are concerned about this continuing to develop is the way I'm proposing and the reason why I have this slide is I just wanted you to see that the trunk lines are over here. This is a ridge line. So if there's it would take a very significant undertaking to um open up this area with a public sewer. We're talking about a very large pump station and anyways just significant investment and um I think this is what the future land use plan had in mind when it said large single family homes. So um I'm running out of time here. I'm going to just uh close it up. Uh, so I believe this project's going to serve the public by providing housing for folks looking to re relocate to the area for for jobs that are available in the nearby employment centers. Um, I hope you agree with your planning staff that this plan is compliant with legacy uh 2030 plan and is a good use of the public infrastructure that's already available. Thank you for your time and I'd like to introduce you to Leslie Hardy. He is the property owner. How much time do we have left? Minute 30. Okay. State your name, address, and zip code for the record, Mr. Hardy. Leslie Hardy, 3615 Hastings Road, Kernersville, North Carolina, 27284. I've lived on the property since 2020, and we just feel it's time to to do something different with the property. Um, I know there's concern about school traffic, but I've, like I said, I've

been there for 25 years now, or I've been there since 2000, not 2020, excuse me. And, uh, I've never had an issue coming out. I mean, we all know when school lets in, lets out. I've sat there maybe five minutes on Hastings Road trying to get out. Um, the biggest problem I have is down to Leadership Academy when I lived next door, 4340. I'd have to come around through the back to get out because that line's up way up Union or High Point Road. So, I guess that's pretty much all I really have to add. Thank you. Thank you. How much time is left? 45 seconds. We have 45 seconds left. If anyone else would like to speak in support. Uh Vince Townend. Uh I'll make this quick. Um I'm the engineer. Still need your name and address. Yeah. Vince Townsend, 1A Wendy Court, Greensboro. Zip code 27409. I just wanted to express uh my support for the project. and I've been doing this a long time and this is going to be one of the nicest town home projects I've ever been involved with just due to all the open space. That's all I had. Thank you. 30 seconds. 30 seconds are remaining. Anyone else like to speak in support? All right. We will now move to uh opposition. We have one no dona. Yes, sir. All right. Keep state your name, address, and zip code for the record. Mr. Deano, we'd appreciate it. One second. Let me We're trying to get something set up, I believe. Okay. Apologies. Hold on one second.

Everyone assistance. It's all right. So you Oh, there. He's right here. Okay. There you go. Uh, good evening board. Thank you for the opportunity to express our strong opposition to this case. And in fact, we couldn't more strongly disagree with the comments that Mr. Garrett and Mr. Hottie have just spoke of. But I'm glad that we're here to discuss this this evening. I think it's very important for us to get some of the facts. Mr. Dabona, if you could give us your name, address, and zip code. Absolutely. Yes. My name is Noel Dabona. I live at 5542 Lewis Cells Road in Kernersville, 27284. Thank you. You're welcome. I first wanted to just let you know that your board is a very impressive list of people here. Um, you have a strong presence in the community and you are all very accomplished in your areas of expertise. It's very important that we maintain our level of objectivity as we go through this analysis and I know that you can do that because you're obviously all very successful at what you've done and you've always made good decisions to get yourselves there. So today I please ask for us to exercise prudent judgment and uh based in strong evidence. I also want to say that we have a strong opposition to this a coalition and we have resources and time and energy to continue this regardless of our outcome this evening. And I'm just saying that because I really look forward to all of you making a concerted effort to really

do the right [Music] thing. I wanted to respond first and foremost to the affordability issue for this project. This project is uh aiming to solve a problem of not enough affordable uh housing. Well, it's my understanding that at $315,000 of average cost of the town home that based on HUD calculations, the area median income in 2024 for Scythe County for a family of four is approximately $85,000. That means that only people that are able to uh purchase at that rate of pay, 80% of AMI, can only afford a house between 220 and 240. There's a lot of people in this room that are teachers, technicians, trades people, and you know, that's not very affordable housing. So, I don't really know right off the bat what problem we're solving with this. I'll also say and my family has lived in multiple states over the course of the last 30 years or so, but I will tell you that the development of Kernisville is quite problematic. There's nothing about it that really is making it very attractive with a prepoundonderance of commercial property and um the activity center that was discussed in Rory's report. The activity center, there's no walking path to the activity center from Hastings Road. The activity center is at least a half a mile east of uh uh the intersection of High Point Road and Hastings Road. And that activity center consists of a sheets gas station and then further east there's a whole bunch of different places you can shop and there's a huge huge um apartment complex over there. So if that's the activity

center that you're talking about that certainly isn't supported by uh the southeast foresight area plan which was conspicuously missing in the analysis uh for Rory's staff report. The Southeast Foresight Area Plan is a policy document. How it contradicts the southeast foresight county area plan is as noted is as such the utilities. While the plan originally anticipated no sewer availability, municipal water and sewer lines in the proximity reached the possible via High Point Road as Mr. Garrett had stated and based on my conversations with Mr. Garrett on the Weatherstone development across the street, there just so happened to be a sewer connection there that we could tap in that they can tap into. However, that does not negate the land use policy which still designates the area for low density and agricultural uses. Absolutely. Reszoning to more intense residential districts is generally discouraged in this area according to page 16 and 17 and map three of the 2014 Southeast Foresight County area plan. The growth management area GM3 described as suburban neighborhoods low connectivity uniform low density patterns legacy 3030 2030 I'm sorry page 37 promotes infill infill development and compatibility opposes greenfield high density

intrusions legacy 2030 or GM3 rather is not a zoning entitlement. It is a policy tool and must be harmonized with local area plans. In fact, when Mr. Garrett and I spoke, and I found Mr. Garrett to be very pleasant. When we spoke, he had admitted to the fact that you guys don't have a local area plan for the community and you really need that. But you have a 2016 policy document that you still must uphold. It's not been revised since then. The planning department misattributed a quote in the F1657 staff report. The statement about promoting a mixture of housing types within the servable serviceable land area and transitional land uses near activity centers is incorrectly cited as coming from legacy 2030 when it actually refers to forward 2045. This misquote undermines the credibility of the justification in our in our [Music] view. While the staff report refers to proximity to an activity center, the intersection of High Point Road and Union Crossroad does not meet the definition or function of a true activity center under forward 2045. The intersection includes a school, a church, utility infrastructure, and some undeveloped corners, but no mixeduse core or concentrated commercial development. Sidewalks are present on one side of High Point Road and both sides of Union Cross Road, but the retail and denser housing did not begin until approximately a half mile east along Union Cross.

Traffic impact 179% increase. Yep. It really should trigger a TIS. And I'll tell you the reason why. UDO chapter 12.2 paragraph C subp paragraph 1C on page 12-4. A traffic impact study shall be required where a reduction in safety is expected at intersections or roadways. Obviously, Mr. Garrett thinks it's so important he hired a traffic engineer. I didn't need him to hire a traffic engineer to know that there are only 400 cars that go up and down Hastings Road south of the I74 bridge on Hastings Road. We know that. That's that's published data. But what you don't know is how many cars are there when it's really during school hours. And when you have people stacked up, it's not very good. and Hastings is a dead-end road. So, the only way out for the neighborhood is to go through this area. I don't want I don't want this to penalize my time fiddling with this computer. But, I'm going to put up a quick video here. See if I can get it over to where you can actually see. It's just 43 seconds long. This is an individual driving. That would be east on High Point Road. And on the right side are the cars that are stacked up at the elementary school. And you will see that it's now common practice for people to jump at the median, which is exceedingly dangerous. And at the very end of this clip, you may get to see the image of a pedestrian that was crossing the street. And it might have been cut off just a trip. There it is right there. You can see. And there's a crossing guide there. There are no lights or

anything to exacerbate that situation. Coming from the opposite direction west and coming east, you also have a lot of cars going to the North Carolina Leadership Academy. We got over We got over 290 signatures from parents, administration, neighbors, concerned people that are in the area of 27284 because we do not have an updated community plan. And as a result, we're left into situations trying to get all of this data at the last minute to figure out how in the world we can um help you to see how much of a degradation this is to the community. It's not a benefit. I don't really see that there is a benefit to the community when you really look at it. If you want to make a benefit to the community, then maybe there's other things we can do with that land. a nice park uh some type of environmental uh center for the kids to school. Um the existing housing pipeline in Zip 27284 is close to 5,000 homes that are already under construction. The advertisement for Mr. Hott's property also uh showed and and we have copies of this when it was advertised in the property. It was a high traffic area. Nothing to do with more affordable housing. Believe me, 315,000 bucks a pop times 138. We're talking about some real money. Finally, I'd like to say that Mr. our attorney Fred Johnson. We don't necessarily buy his uh his rebuttal on the on the spot zoning because we believe out of five criteria, four of those are

satisfied. F1657 meets four out of five criteria commonly associated with illegal spot zoning in North Carolina. While granted, the parcel size is large with typically weighs against a spot zoning claim. The proposed reasonzoning is incompatible with surrounding uses, inconsistent with adopted plans, and lacks a clear public benefit. It is being justified by utility access, not by strategic planning policy. Therefore, this case raises substantial spot zoning concerns, even if it may not meet the narrow legal definition, it meets the practical pattern of spot zoning that undermines planning integrity. Ladies and gentlemen, you are tasked with making a decision in favor of the community, not necessarily in favor of a monetary gain. Mr. Hottie owns property on High Point Road that could easily allow this development to have an access road. So, we're not dumping all these new vehicles on Hastings Road. We have a lot of public we have a lot of letters that we sent to you um over the course of time. And our final position is this. It violates the southeast foresight county area plan of 2014. Large lot residential or agricultural use was conspicuously again missing from the staff report. misapplies the legacy 2030 comprehensive plan. GMA calls for infill and compatibility, not green field development. This is not an infill site obviously and is incompatible with the surrounding rural and agricultural zone properties. The GMA3 is a guiding framework. Mr. Dona, I'm sorry, your time is up. The timekeeper just gave that about 15 seconds ago. Very good.

Thank you. Yep. You're welcome. Any questions for Mr. Deono? So, go ahead, Mr. Deono. I I just want to clarify one comment you made um regarding I I believe you said our duty to make a decision that's in the interest of the community good, I believe you said, and not monetary gain. Um who whose monetary gain are you concerned about? I'm not concerned about anybody's monetary gain. I'm a capitalist. I believe in the free all of that, free trade and everything. My issue is that you folks have a charge to safe keep the community safe from people wanting to just cash in and make lots of money. And we see this as a cash grab as opposed to a benefit to the community. If there was a benefit to the community, you wouldn't have to rely on marketing this to people that don't even live in Kernersville that are coming uh into the area because they are um young professionals. There's not a lot of people in Curtisville right now that going to buy a $315,000 town home. So, that's what I mean, Mr. Grubs. And I also mean that as far as the board is concerned, all of you in your professional endeavors touch touch all of these subjects in your day-to-day work. I think you know what we're saying as far as I don't know what you're saying. Why don't you go ahead and say it? Well, what I'd like to say is that you, sir, being an attorney, you very well understand all of the ramifications for reasonable development. Because what I hear you saying is that the people sitting up here making the decision are somehow going to monetarily

benefit from whatever decision we make. Mr. Grubs, I couldn't be further from the truth. You disagree with that and we're going to have to agree to disagree about what the exact duties and purpose of the planning board are. I'm not sure I completely agree with that. Um, but I I want to state for the record that none of us have any monetary interest in this or any other development project we hear. If that were the case, then the folks that had that interest would have to recuse themselves based on our ethical rules. So, I I don't appreciate that. Mr. Grubs, you draw on an inference on what I said. What I'm saying is that the folks that you sit in the chair of the planning board, your responsibility is to make sure that you balance the decision from people wanting to make lots of money in a very short period of time to what is actually good for the community. Yeah. Again, I'm I'm going to disagree with that being exactly how our our duties work. Again, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. But thank you for answering my question. Thank you. If you don't mind lifting your mic and and before you ask your question, I know we ran out of time, but just in respect of those who took their time to come out, all of those in opposition, would you please stand so that you can be recognized? All right. Thank you. I miss Miss I want to and I want to thank you for speaking what you what you were thinking regarding that and I'm sorry ma'am I can't hear you. Okay. My comment really is just to really clarify a little more what our duties and responsibilities are. And we have a set

of regulations, standards, some guidances that our responsibility is to take the information we get compared to what those standards are with the idea that these standards and regulations have been developed over a long time and from a lot of input, not just us, not just staff, community input. These are the regulations that will provide what's in the best interest of the community. They they are changing. They're developing. But our goal, our charge is to conduct our assessments and discussions, listen to everybody there, and have our decision comply as best we can with what our guidance is to do. the in as far as the benefit of the community, you have the immediate community that we love to hear from. We're glad to see everybody here. We have a larger community in terms of economic development, uh, subdivisions, farmers, everybody that's there is a part of that. So, we consider all of that when we make these decisions. And it's not trying to one side over the other. It is what our framework that we have to operate in is how we're making these decisions. Why didn't the staff report include the possibility of the reasons behind doing the TIS as it stated in the UDO where safety is a concern? A TIS can be can be requested. So Mr. Dono, I will address that. I u had a conversation with Mr. Murphy this morning regarding the TIA TIS as we call it. Mr. Murphy, if you don't mind giving the explanation that you and I discussed this morning because my my that was my exact question. So, if you don't mind sharing

what the requirements are for a TIA, right? And Mr. Deona did give the proper reference and basically a traffic impact study shall be required according to any of the following any proposed special use district resoning planning board or subdivision that will increase the approach traffic volumes at intersections or roadways by 100 or 50 more vehicles in the peak hour. That's case number one. proposed development in the vicinity of areas previously identified as having levels of service E or F, hazardous locations, or other similar adequacy concerns. Where a uh C where a reduction in safety is expected at intersections or roadways, a traffic signal warrant study may be uh may still be requested by NC DOT or Winston DOT even if a traffic impact study is not. And then it goes on, when a proposed development has been approved in the past and there's changes to it, there's another uh methodology there as far as doing that. Basically, this is what's in the ordinance for that. So, there are, you know, there is specific warrants that Winston Salem DOT, they're one of our development partners, look at whenever they're making a determination whether or not a TIS is required. This project in and of itself will not meet the 150 trips in the peak hour. That is the first determinant in determining whether or not a TIA is needed. If you have an existing situation, you if you take the uh situation that Mr. Deona talked about with the school and you have an existing traffic situation with a school and we have them all over the city and the county. It's not unique to here. Under that logic, if you built a house, if you built two houses, you know, you would have to theoretically do a TIA because you have an existing situation and any additional traffic is going to make that worse. Well, this development isn't making the situation that's already there. The the traffic is there. So,

you're adding additional traffic, but it doesn't meet any of these warrants. That's the that's what's in the ordinance. NC do has a uh warrant that basically says if the project itself is generating more than 3,000 trips in a day then a TIS is triggered and again this was reviewed both by in NC do and Winston Salem DOT and this project will is anticipated based on the number of units to generate anywhere between a,000 12300 depending on which um trip generation you're looking at again nowhere near that 3000 trip uh warrant. So in looking at those, you know, it's one of those things where from a staff perspective, we're giving the direction to the applicant. You have to do A, B, and C in order to meet the requirements. They in and of themselves may have hired a traffic engineer based on their discussions with the neighbors, but it's not anything that's required based on what's in the ordinance. Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions for Mr. Deono? No. Okay. Thank you, sir. So, the public hearing I'm now going to close the public hearing and uh discussion amongst the board. I've got a question for staff. All right. Um I understand that there's a there's a note in the staff report about the proposed use being inconsistent with the area plan because of um basically you draw the distinction of the fact that there's now public utilities available at the time the area plan was developed. They were not. Are there other suburban area plans um that contemplate large lot

residential in spite of the fact that there are public utilities available? No. Generally speaking, whenever you have public sewer available, the default recommendation is 0 to 8 units per acre. There are some limitations to that. And again, I you know, I'm painting a broad brush. If you're in a if you're in I mean, let's there are that there is some sewer available in the YR district. Well, our YR stands for Yaken River and there's a minimum lot size of I think three units per the acre. So again, there are some exceptions to that, but generally speaking, anytime in a suburban area whenever you have sewer available, the default land use recommendation is single family residential 08 units per acre. Again, single family. Um, but one of the things I believe um, Miss Smith was referring to are changing conditions over the course of time. Uh we have had a lot of cases over the last couple of years dealing again dealing with housing affordability and the fact that town homes are a more affordable product to build than single family. That's kind of been a changing condition with the economic reality that we're in. So we have made it somewhat a consistent policy that as long as they are meeting the density recommendation that we would also support attached products as long as it's a density neutral type thing. So I realize it was a broad question that that answer. Thank you very much. Any other questions for staff? Any further discussion? Would someone like to make a motion? I' I'd like to make a comment before I make a motion. Um, I've got concerns about this development project. Um, that have nothing to do with traffic, that have nothing to do with the proximity to

schools necessarily or the proximity to churches. Um, doesn't have to do with storm water, excuse me. It has to do with um the fact that we do have some very very high density development to the north and east, mainly the east I guess of of this property. Um, as you go back up Union Crossroad towards Kernerville, um, mixeduse development. You've got a mix of retail, very, very high density residential, um, you know, services, more schools. Um, and then you've got a gap between there around the Union Crossroad, Interstate 40 interchange. Um there's this gap of pretty low density but high intensity um industrial and then still a a good bit of agricultural land um and then we get to the end of Unic or not the end but the intersection with High Point Road and you you've got some higher density residential but I'm concerned about sort of this sprawling effect of moving more high density residential out away and and leaving that gap in between. I realize there are some big employers there that need employees. I think there's some opportunities to um provide that that housing stock that's so badly needed closer to um where there's higher density development already in place. So, I'm not supportive of this because of that and I I don't intend to vote in support of it. Not because of Mr. Dabona's presentation, but really quite frankly in spite of Mr. Dabona's

presentation. Um, as probably you know, um, this vote here today is an advisory vote. this case will be taken up by the county commissioners regardless of what we decide and you'll have another opportunity to be heard there. If you want to be successful there, I would suggest to you you might think about putting a different face on your um lobbying um because I don't think what was presented to us today was all that effective. I I don't like hearing the hardworking folks on this planning staff um being accused of trying to slip one over on somebody because I I don't believe for a moment that's what they were trying to do. I don't like sitting up here and being sort of backhanded accused of somehow benefiting from a decision I'm going to make. And I can tell you the county commissioners aren't going to appreciate that. So, there were a lot of you folks out there, some of whom I know that I didn't get to hear from and I think might have been a more effective advocate for your case than what I heard because if I were not familiar with the area, um, I might be voting differently, but I'm not going to support it in spite of what I heard today. So, all right. Thank you. Any other comments? Uh my only comment is that and I appreciate all the concerns. Um but for me looking at the site, you have two schools, you have two churches, and you're putting town homes adjacent to those uses. Giving out given all the personal

concerns aside, if I were to see this anywhere else, to me it makes sense. Uh you It's not particularly high intensity. It is just more dense than what people are accustomed to in the area. You have the neighborhood across the street which is somewhat more dense of a single family neighborhood and you are backing up to the highway. So to me it makes sense but I'm prepared to vote. All right. Well um again and after the vote today this will go before the county commissioners. I think this is something we're going to face a lot going forward. We need housing and we we have agricultural space. we have beautiful land and people feel like we're encroaching on the land. You know, I think everyone knows there's a shortage of housing and I can understand neighbors concerns. Uh we've dealt with this on numerous occasions where we're having to decide is this the right thing for the neighborhood. And I think this that is a case there. And I I will echo Mr. Grubs. We in no way benefit. And if we're just taking it the wrong way, my apologies, but we in no way benefit from any decision that we make. You know, uh I feel like in in my profession, I'm I'm a fiduciary of assets, and I take that same responsibility here on this board. I feel like I'm a fiduciary for every citizen that I look at and that I speak with on a daily basis. So, would you like to move forward with your motion and we'll see how the vote goes? I move that the planning board find that the request is inconsistent with the comprehensive plan. Second. Have a motion for inconsistency by Mr. Faraby, second by Mr. Grubs. All those in favor sign of I. I. The same sign. That is

unanimous. I move that the planning board recommend approval of F1657. Have a motion by Mr. Is there a second? Second by Miss Smith. Any qu any questions or comments? All those in favor? Sign of I. I. I. oppose the same sign passes. Five to one. All right, that this the motion does pass. It now goes before the county commissioners and I'm sure you'll get the date for that. Thank you for coming. Uh we really appreciate it. We're going to let you all exit the chamber unless you want to stay for the remainder of the meeting. We'll take a few seconds. May without

Yeah, you know that if you don't mind. Um, Mr. Chairman, we're going to the I'm sorry, that's okay. To the staff report. I knew where we were, but that's that's fine. We we we have staff report. I have uh just three or four items. First of all, I'll turn to Kirk, who will give you a work session preview for um later this month. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the board, at the current time we have three items for the April work session. Uh the first item is going to be a annual report from the Historic Resources Commission. Then we're going to have a report on downtown Winston Salem investment uh in the last year. We usually bring you one of those every year at this time. And the third report is going to be uh a report on residential development activity uh particularly preliminary subdivision lots uh approved in the last year or so. So that's what we have right now. We may uh have something else on the agenda, but as of as of right now, we've got those three items firmed up. Thank you. Uh Mr. chamber board. The the second item is I will turn to Mark who will give you the preview for your uh May zoning cases. So you do have one new resoning of course you have the one continue resoning F1392 which is the Brookberry phase 7. Um similar to this resoning you're you're butdding up to Lewisville and I expect some opposition to show up for that one. Um, you do have one planning board review and two plan

residential developments. And uh, just similarly to what we had earlier today on the Peters Creek Parkway case, the F1392 uh, Brookberry phase 7 is a final development plan. It was a two-phase area that was shown. So again, it comes to the planning board. There is a public hearing so there's chance for public discourse but the property was reszoneed back in 2003 2004 when it originally came through. This is this is the one there were only a couple phases of Brook that were truly two-phase and because there was nothing shown there. So this is a two-phase area but it will if if you are so inclined it will be approved at this body. It will not have to go forward to the elected body. the two and a half to three other things I had. If you'll notice, Mark does have on here there is a walking business tour MWBE housing honoring diversity awareness month. Um that is available. I just wanted to highlight that. It's Thursday, April 17th from 12 to 2. That's something that that the the city is offering um to be able to go and take a look at those minority and womenowned businesses in the downtown area. Uh similarly uh but not by the same entity. There is something going on uh Saturday May 3rd. It's the it's uh historic related. There's it's the taste of history and the local historic landmark walking tour. I don't have any specific information on that myself, but we can uh we'll get that information. We'll email it out to the board. That's just something I had on there to mention, but we will get that out to you as well. The final thing that I have uh is I did want to introduce a new staff member. Uh Veronica Romero uh is here. She comes to us from um the federal government. She was a USGS employee and

uh if you would like to come up to the podium and say a brief word about your background and u get any grilling from the planning board they want to ask you. She is uh she is our environmental planner. Uh so with that, I'll turn it over. Is this a good volume? I don't want to blow up the mic. Um yeah, my name is Veronica Romero. Um my background, educational background is an undergrad in sociology and a master's in community and regional planning. I focused on environmental topics, um including flood mitigation, but also agricultural land uses and local food systems. So I did quite a work there. And then with the USGS or the US Geological Survey, I was mostly doing research in water use and land use um national level but also regional areas in the west and the east coast. So that's what I'm bringing to the planning team. Super. Welcome aboard. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That's all I have. Anything else for the good of the order? We have our motion to adjourn. Second. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.