Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, because of our tech issues, we're going to start about five minutes late. We're going to move everybody in that's overflow into the training room so they can actually wa watch live and hear us. So, just everybody, please be patient while we get this tech stuff sorted out. Thank you. Do we need chairs? I hope everybody doesn't have to haul their own chairs. I mean, the metal chairs did come from there.

No, they didn't. They don't. They're wheelchairs in that way. Like chairs over there now. So, those were the ones. I mean, there's not enough for everybody, but I don't think everybody's fixed.

I mean, we should just get it fixed in general. Yeah. Well, we just had this whole place upgraded what, four, three, four years ago and that was all supposed to be fixed and it's already broken again. Yeah, it's the second it's the second meeting. So Oh, no. No. What I mean is like that was supposed to be our cure all for years and it's been three or four buttons not turned up.

I mean, usually Do you need any help? Sarah, do you need any help? Don't rush. Rush, Sarah. I start the meeting. You can take you can get your stuff settled.

Twisting an ankle running back and forth. the big chairs disappeared. I think they disappear. The big chairs that are usually off the side, I don't think they disappear into that room. Okay.

No, I know that's the one single letter.

Interesting. We're going to be on second delay though for any public comment or anything. You're fine. Do you need me to test it or are we good? Give me a thumbs up when you're settled. Are you?

No, but that's fine. Give us I'll give you a second. Do we need to test the audio in here for them in there or do we think we're Yeah, you want me to I can just talk for a little bit if you want to see. Well, yeah. I'm just going to count to 100 and see see if the audio goes. We could sing Lance Happy Birthday. Yeah. You want to sing happy birthday? It's Lance. Lance, great timing today. We have to test the audio and give them a second to check the delay. So, we're gonna sing happy birthday to you as a crowd. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear L.

Happy birthday to you. Are you now? We're going to um give it a 20 second delay to make sure that they get it over there and then we'll be able to start the meeting in just a minute here. So, thank you everyone for your patience while we're accommodating everybody so that everybody can participate. So, thank you, Lance. I feel like you hated that, but I really we appreciate for that. I was like, this will be so We appreciate you playing. We are live. I love I love each and every one of you.

That's because I was leaning away from the mic. So, okay. Thank you everyone for your patience. With that, I'm going to call to order our regular city commission meeting of Monday, April 20th. Everyone, please rise for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We begin as always by acknowledging the land on which we gather as the territory of the Ottawa and Chipua peoples who have stewarded this land throughout the generations. Thank you for your strength and resilience in protecting this land and inspiring us to uphold our responsibilities to do the same. Um, with that, I'm also going to give a quick note. We did just acknowledge Lance's birthday. We thank him for joining us for important business. Um, but also I know that uh the city manager will get to this in his notes, but on behalf of the entire commission, I know I don't say this uh without the support of everybody behind me, but we wanted to acknowledge this is the last week of Chief Tuller's uh years of dedicated service to our community and he is here today. So, we just wanted to say that especially for him and thank you so much for all your service, Chief. He has great stories about his first run with my dad. So, I had to especially call that out. So, with that, we will now move on to our regular order of business for roll call. Can you please do that, Sarah?

Yes. Commissioner Bulmer here. Commissioner Shaw here. Mayor Proton Ness here. Commissioner Treadwell here. Commissioner Anderson here. Commissioner Funk here. Mayor here. And with that, I will, as said, uh, hand it over for announcements from the city manager.

Thank you. Uh, yes, just some announcements for this week, the week of April 20th. As everyone is aware, the city and our region experienced significant flooding, historic flooding, and I just want to express gratitude to the community. I heard a lot of stories about neighbors helping neighbors in ways that were really uh very touching. And uh we're grateful that uh we made it through that event without loss of life and with limited injury. And uh while the impacts have been substantial, I just want to acknowledge and express appreciation for the swift and coordinated response of city staff, first responders, Grand Traverse County, and other additional regional partners. It really was a team effort. Areas of concern within the city last week included significant erosion at the Fish Fish Pass project site uh and in lot K within the adjacent alley. As water levels have receded, these areas are now stabilized and they are under control. Additionally, a sinkhole developed in lot A located in the alley north of the 100 block of East Front Street and contractors are scheduled to begin addressing that area tomorrow. I've authorized a number of emergency uh purchases which will come to the city commission as confirming purchase orders as your purchasing policy allows me in cases of emergency to authorize extraordinary expenses. Uh impacts were observed at the Brownbridge Quiet Area and we encourage the public to visit the city's website under the news section for the latest updates. I on behalf of the city of Traverse City want to extend sincere gratitude to Frank Duri, our director of public services who retired as of April 17th. Uh since joining the city team in 2018, Frank provided steady leadership across essential services and has a tremendous environmental conscience and I'm grateful for his environmental stewardship and his lasting uh connection to the Boardman Ottawa River. Uh Frank's impact on the city's infrastructure and natural resources will be felt for years to come. And it's not a final goodbye. Uh Frank will be supporting the city in

about two months uh as a contracted employee to help see the Fish Pass project through completion. And additionally, with Frank's retirement, Department of Public Services has been reorganized by me. I've elevated the streets division and garage division to full departments. The city is pleased to congratulate Chris Weber and Joel Tapio on their new roles as directors. And I want to compliment Frank for his nurturing and development of a team that made that kind of reorganization possible. And lastly, uh this week, as the mayor mentioned, uh marks the end of an era as we bid farewell to Chief Tuller. Uh Chief Tuller recently celebrated 36 years of dedicated service to the city. that will be as of this Wednesday, April 5th, April uh uh on Wednesday, April 22nd, and will retire on Thursday, April 23rd. Throughout Chief Tuller's career, he's demonstrated steady leadership, professionalism, and he uh has a deep commitment to the safety and well-being of our community. He's also been a dedicated instructor, teaching numerous courses across the state of Michigan and across the region. and he is respected greatly for his knowledge and he's helped make other communities safer because of him sharing his knowledge and the impacts of that some of us may never know but they are extraordinary. The public is invited. Everyone is welcome to join us in celebrating Chief Tuller at a community openhouse on Friday, April 24th from 1:00 p.m. to 4 p.m. That's at Fire Station 1 on East Front Street. And again, thank you Chief Tuller uh for your wonderful service. So why don't we give him a round of applause and I didn't want to make Frank by mad by mentioning him too individually, so I'll let you do that.

Great. Thank you. And that's all that I've got. But yes, we are uh bereft of two very good, experienced uh longtime workers, and we're very appreciative to them. So, with that, I will hand it over to Sarah for city clerk announcements, please. Yep. Um just two quick uh meetings planned for this week. The planning commission has a special meeting tomorrow at 6 6 PM here in the chambers and then Hickory Hills advisories meeting on Thursday the 23rd at 9:00 a.m. at the lodge. Thank you so much. Okay, with that I will have you continue on to consent calendar, please.

The purpose of the consent calendar is to expedite business by grouping non-controversial items together to be dealt with by one commission motion without discussion. Any member of the commission, staff, or the public may ask that any item on the consent calendar be removed there from and placed elsewhere on the agenda for individual consideration by the commission. And such requests will be automatically respected. If an item is not removed from the consent calendar, the action noted in parentheses on the agenda is approved by a single commission action adopting the consent calendar. One, consideration of approving the minutes of the April 2nd, 2026 and April 13, 2026 meetings of the city commission. Approval recommended. Two, consideration of adopting to make permanent a traffic control order for installation of permanent hallway stop sign at the southwest corner of Front Street. Approval recommended. Three, consideration of adopting to make permanent a traffic control order for installation of permanent midblock pedestrian crosswalk signs on Pine between Front Street and State Street. Approval recommended for consideration of adopting to make permanent traffic control order for permanent installation of stop sign at Red Drive and Silver Drive. Approval recommended. Five, consideration of adopting to make permanent a traffic control order for stop signs at Cottage View Drive and Silver Drive. Approval recommended. Six, consideration of enactment of an amendment to the Trevor City Code of Ordinances, which would reszone 523, 525, and 551 Mson Avenue from C2A Neighborhood Center conditionally zoned to C2 neighborhood center as recommended by the planning commission. Enactment recommended. Seven, consideration of the enactment of an amendment to the Traverse City Code of Ordinance, which would update parking meter operations, clarify payment options, and revise related civil fine provisions. Enactment recommended. Eight, consideration of authorizing the retiring of police K9 dog ENO, to be sold for $1 to his handler, Officer Logan Core. Approval recommended. Nine, consideration of authorizing amended purchase order for

snow plowing and hauling services in downtown for the 2025 2026 winter season to increase the total amount as a result of recent major weather events. Approval recommended. 10. Consideration of authorizing an amendment to the agreement with the National Cherry Festival for the 2026 2027 National Cherry Festival events. Approval recommended. Consideration of authorizing a request from Traverse City Food and Wine to allow for service of spirit tasting during its event in the west quadrant of the open space and to allow for the event duration for more than 3 days August 19th, 2026 through August 23rd, 2026 and consideration of authorizing the city clerk to issue the related permit. Approval recommended. 12. Consideration of authorizing an amendment to the agreement for critical building masonry and restoration repairs at the front street lift station for additional repairs and anti-graffiti coating. Approval recommended. 13. Consideration of authorizing a contract for sidewalk sidewalk construction project at Garfield Avenue. Approval recommended. 14. Consideration of authorizing a contract for the 2026 Cape Seal project. Approval recommended. 15. Consideration of authorizing a contract for the North Union Street Bridge rehabilitation project and consideration of authorizing a funding agreement with the downtown development authority articulating the funding that will be provided by them for the North Union Street Bridge Rehabilitation Project. Approval recommended. 16. consideration of waving the competitive bidding process and approving in concept the installation of three sculptures as part of the North Boardman Creative Initiative at 318 East 8th Street and 517 Railroad Avenue. The expenditure of public art trust fund dollars and the necessary documents as recommended by the arts commission. Approval recommended. 17. Consideration of adopting a resolution to amend act 51 certified street map to add in the new portion of Garland Street for purposes of act 51

funding. Adoption recommended. 18. Consideration of authorizing various documents in connection with settlement agreements related to the opioid litigation. Approval recommended. Thank you for that litany. I am just going to say because I know we do have our satellite audience as it were um to that we will allow an extra couple seconds after I open this up to the public after turning to our commissioners. Um, but if somebody in the overflow audience does have something they'd like to pull, please keep careful task and make your way up front uh so that we don't miss you, but also so that we don't have too much delay. So with that though, I will turn to my commissioners. Is there any item anybody would like to pull? Laura number 11. Any others? Number 13, please. Okay. 113.

Two. Two. Okay. Any others? Mitch. Nine and 15. Okay. Any others? Seeing none, does any member of the audience want any item that is not 11, 13, 2, 9, or 15 pulled from the consent calendar? Seeing none, I'll bring it back to the commission for a motion, please. I move that we approve the consent calendar as amended. Thank you. Support. Thank you. All in favor?

I opposed. Opposed. Gez opposed. Thank you. All right, we'll continue on then to number 11, and that is the Trevor City Food and Wine Festival. Uh Laura, you had this pulled.

Yeah, thank you, mayor. I pulled this from the consent calendar, not because I'm opposed. I think the the Food and Wine Festival is a great well-run event, and I really appreciate their addition of the two free new public programs. Um, however, I think it's important that the commission and the public have a bit more context on the full scope and impact of this event. First, the impact on the open space isn't just for 5 days. The actual application is for nine days from August 16th through August 24th, including the days for setup and tearown. And that's a limit that will limit public access to the open space. I think we need to be very transparent about these types of details when making a decision like this. Next, the parks and recck commission approved this for one year only with very clear questions about whether our high impact event fees cover our city costs and whether or not this is costneutral um for the city. And I appreciate the parks and recck commission and that they formed an ad hoc committee to study these issues further not just for this event but for all events held in our parks and I look forward to that work coming back to us. So, I just want to note as we continue to to host host and hold these successful events in our public parks, it's important that we're cleareyed about the impacts, public access, and full cost of the city. So, again, I'm not planning on voting no tonight. I just think the these are really important considerations to outline as we move forward and looking at high impact events that are held in our parks.

Do we have other questions from commissioners at this time, Jackie? Um, I like you heard the very clearly from the parks and recrecks commission about the the one-year approval rather than being grandfathered in as a continuing high impact event. Um, do we need to modify our our u motion to reflect that in any way? No, the policy automatically requires for an event that's more than three days in duration, the event itself has to come before the city commission. Thank you. And can I ask a clarifying question? So will that be for every year? So next year if the application if we approve it tonight and next year the application is for more than three days, it would still be required to come back to the city commission. Is that correct? Yes. Correct.

Go ahead. And would it be appropriate to add on the days of setup and close down if the open space for example isn't accessible to the public, shouldn't those days be included in they they uh they will be charged for all of the days. Uh so that is the you know their their permit covers setup actual event and tear down. Um you know I'll acknowledge that perhaps in the future with the agenda wording we'll make that even clear so that folks don't have to kind of dig for that but um particularly if they're paying for it. They are. Yes. Yes. So really they're paying for a nine-day event. Yes. Correct. Good point. Very good point. Other questions or a motion? I can make the motion.

Thank you. I move that the city clerk be authorized to approve an event duration of more than three days and the service of spirit tastings as part of the parks and public land use permit in connection with use of the open space as generally outlined in the city clerk's April 9th 2026 communication support. Thank you. I'll get that to Ken. Okay, we got a motion by Mayor Pames, a second by Commissioner Funk. Is there any other com or discussion of this item?

Discussion. Um, there were recommendations made by parks. It was it came via email, but nothing was able to get in time or to get to us in time to formalize like this reviewed rate structure. I think that a lot of people have talked about and that's fine. We should honor the agreement as it is right now. But this is something that we'll look at in the future in regard to the high impact events and how much those organizations will, you know, pay to utilize that park space for an extended period of time. So, excellent point. Other comments or questions right now?

Seeing none, any public comment on this item. Okay. Trying to give a little extra time, but it looks like none. So, I'll bring it back for a vote. All in favor? I opposed. Motion passes. Our next item pulled was item number 13, which is the construction project at Garfield Avenue for the sidewalk. And Jackie, you had this one pulled, correct?

Yes, I did. Um I had a concern when when I inquired um I was informed that uh none of this sidewalk actually is being constructed within the Traverse City city limits. Um, so given its location on the east side of Garfield Street, um, I I presume this is either airport property or um, Garfield Township property. This is within the city. The the sidewalk and and I'm sorry if my email wasn't clear, but the sidewalk is 100% Your email said it's not in the city. Oh. Oh, I read that and you said that's not correct. Oh, well, my bad. Words matter. It is within the city, and I apologize if I said it wasn't. All airport property is by definition within the city limits. Yep.

Yeah. Including that row, that right ofway. Yes. Apologies for that. Thank you for the clarification. And and just one continuing with my thought, I would have gone on to remind everyone that Traverse City unfortunately does not not have a seat on the um Northwestern Regional Airport Authority board. and um if if we were building sidewalks without representation, that was going to be a big concern. So, thank you. Understandable. And working on getting that seat back right now. So, um so, thank you for that. Uh would we have a motion then? Thank you.

Let's let's see how my how my new new one works. Um, I move that the mayor and city clerk be authorized to execute a contract with AJ's Excavating LLC from Honor, Michigan, uh, in the amount of $127,37060 with a 15% contingency of $19,1559 for a grand total not to exceed $146,476.19. such contract subject as to the substance uh by the city manager and its form by the city attorney with funds therefore available in the street capital projects fund fund 447.

Okay, I'm going to give that to Jackie and we'll give that to Lance. Okay, any further discussion on this item? Uh Mitch and then Lance. This is an area of town that and it's Traverse Heights neighborhood which uh is partly in the city and partly in Garfield Township, but it's an area that doesn't have very good um and hasn't historically north south uh pedestrian and bike transportation options. So, this won't um be a perfect solution, but it will at least be a route for people uh that don't have to walk through um the grass or right along Garfield anymore. Thank you, Lance.

And I was just going to note this is I I like that this is coming to us uh and that there's the motion uh because if you look along that route, these are what what you'd call like desire lines um where people just naturally walk uh when there is no sidewalk. uh and we have a bunch of those all over town. Um so I'm happy that the engineering department identified that uh and the planning department identified that and that we're putting in a safe infrastructure there. Thank you. Good point. Other questions or go ahead. Yeah, I just wanted to say this is something that's been talked about in the Traverse Heights Neighborhood Association for

not quite a decade, but it's been it's been brought up for a long time. Can anyone comment on the the agreement that had to occur with the airport and the FAA in regard to putting this in getting this installed because that was one of the caveats that we talked about. There needed to be an agreement between the FAA in order and the city. I'm looking to the city attorney and you're shaking your head now. No, I'm not aware of that. Okay. Well, the important I'm just happy it's happening. It's just that was that was something that was it was anformational piece that was given to us as part of like why this wasn't happening for a long time. So I am happy to see that it's happening today.

As a member of the same neighborhood association though I don't remember necessarily having staff tell us that. So maybe it was one of those things that lives in the ether that snowballs and wasn't actually ever official. So a lesson to us all about double-checking our facts sometimes too. And I say that because I sat in and thought the exact same thing. So um we all we all get that. Other comments? Okay. Any public comment on this item? I'm say seeing none. Uh bring it back for a vote. All in favor? I opposed. Motion passes. Okay. And then number two. And was that you again as well, Jackie? Sorry, that was me. Oh, that was Ken. Sorry, Ken. Sorry, Jackie.

No, that was me. Um, I wanted this pulled because I um kind of sticking to the line of argument that I've been using about making anything permanent in regard to the state street until we make a decision on the state state street traffic direction and I feel like making this permanent is working in that in that direction. Um we have a temporary control order in effect right now. Um, obviously it's been past the 90 days and it's expired, but we know that those can expire without any ramifications. State Streets traffic control order has expired and it's still operating as two-way. So, I see that this already operating as an all-way stop right now. I don't see any reason to take this into permanence. If I may just jump in, I asked the same question of our city engineer, Miss Pagano, and she said that this is necessary regardless of the configuration or orientation of State Street, and I invite her to she's shaking her head. Yes. Uh but if you have any specific questions for her, but regardless if State Street is one way or two-way, it's our our city engineers recommendation uh through also consultation with our traffic engineers that that remain in place regardless. Would you like it to come up for some questions or is that a good answer for you?

I mean that that is an explanation. Sure. Great. Mitch, I'm wondering if there's also perhaps a legal component that if uh we have a stop sign for a traffic control order that has expired and somebody runs that and well runs it and gets ticted for running it or causes an accident. if that brings up questions of liability that we have a stop sign that our own traffic orders doesn't exist. Uh I don't know whether it's a liability question, but I agree it's it's better to have the the appropriate traffic control order in place for a sign that's been installed there. So if we intend to keep it more than the 90 days, we should have the TCO in place.

Okay. Do we have more questions or a motion? I move that the traffic control order 745, which provides hallway stop signage at the southwest corner of Front Street eastbound at Pine Street, be permanently adopted. Second. Okay, I'll give that to Sean Bmer. And any further discussion from the commission on that? Seeing none, any public comment on this item? Thank you everybody for your patience while we do these little prolonged pauses. Okay. All right. Seeing none, I'll bring it back for a vote. All in favor? I opposed. Nay.

Roll call, please. Commissioner Bmer, yes. Commissioner Shaw, yes. Mayor Promness, yes. Commissioner Treadwell, yes. Commissioner Anderson, yes. Commissioner Funk, no. Mayor, yes. Motion passes. Okay, the next one we had pulled was number nine. Um, and that was the snow hauling. And you pulled that one correct. Yes, Mitch. Sorry, I was looking at Mitch and Ken. You sorry. I know. Sorry about that.

This is now the second time that we've had to approve an extension um of our snow hauling contract because we had more snow. Uh, I question I mean I think that we should pay this going right now, but going forward I question um how do we better prepare um the city for both this unexpected uh cost and also in our broader themes of uh climate and environmental resiliency. It means that we will have to deal with increasingly uh weather events that um are costly and unpredictable. Not just snow removal, but as we've seen this past month, the um two sinkholes that took out parking. And is there a way that we can they have uh funds dedicated for environmental and resiliency that would then be available for in future budgets um emergency work.

I uh I you know my recommendation is that that's why we have a a fund balance uh for things that come up that are unforeseen. I think as we uh make our way through more weather differences, I'll just put it that way, that that might be something uh to look at, uh there's always the option of when we bring purchase orders for things like this forward that we could have a greater dollar amount so we're not coming back to you. Uh so that's an option that would be more of a level that's more of a question for the board on how much wiggle room you want to want to leave. I don't anticipate us needing any more snow removal at this time. Don't jinx us. Let's hope. Okay. Do we have other questions? Go ahead, Lance.

Yeah. Is uh with this coming back to us again, is there consideration for bringing some of these services inhouse um with what we're paying in contract? That's something that we're we're looking at that for all sorts of snow removal services. Uh you'll be hearing a presentation here in the next few months about elevating sidewalk snow clearing uh services. So, that'll be coming forward. And uh so all the options are being considered. Perfect. Neighbors will appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. Before we get too far down the future conversations, um any more questions about this item? Question. Yeah. Um March 2nd, we approved another $150,000

on what was originally budgeted. Now we're approving another h 100,000. Um, what I asked at the time when that 150,000 was approved back in March 2nd was will the DDA be contributing at all to this? Because one of the things that they market and advertises that they contribute to snow removal in the downtown area. So my question is it's been a little bit of time since March 2nd. Have we received money or contribution from the DDA for thatund, you know, as an equal share of the 150,000 and would we expect a reciprocal sharing of revenue with this 100,000?

I would the the best accurate answer I believe I can give you and Mr. Burke Holder can correct me if I state something that sounds incorrect is that not directly. Uh but we do have the service agreement with the DDA for $630,000 and part of that contemplates the snow removal services. Uh so it's not necessarily a dollar for dollar, but it's just more of a general uh concept of the funding that we anticipate. Is that is that correct? He's nodding his head. Yes.

Okay. Do we have more questions or a motion, please? Uh, I move that the city manager be authorized to issue an amended purchase order to Molan Excavating of Traverse City, Michigan for an additional not to exceed amount of $100,000 to the existing purchase order for downtown snowplowing and hauling with funds available in the streets and parking funds and further to approve a budget amendment for the use of fund balance to cover the authorized expenditures from the streets and auto parking funds. Support.

Okay. Thank you, Commissioners Bulmer and Treadwell. Any further discussion or questions? Seeing none, I'll bring it to the public. Any public comment on this item? Okay, seeing none, I'll bring it back. All in favor? I opposed. Motion passes. Okay. And the final one from our consent calendar is item number 15. Uh this was you as well, correct, Mitch? Yes. Okay. That's the Union Street Bridge. Yes.

Uh we've had very high water for the past week. Well, we had high water before that and then we had uh what is um class as a 400year flood on the Bordon River. We I'd say were very uh fortuitous in the city and that we were able to replace six bridges in three years. Uh Union Street is still one that required a bit of work. Uh but do we have of um an assessment if there was any additional damage that the high water um caused to the bridge?

That is underway. Those types of assessments are ongoing and uh um the state of Michigan will through their uh contractor will also be helping with those assessments. Uh so I don't have a a a direct answer for you now other than that's something that's in the works.

Yeah. somebody that uh paddled through the high water, not at the highest. Um that particular bridge was a choke point that had very um swift and swirling currents. It did rip out uh at least one, possibly up to three trees that were along the bank right next to that bridge. So, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some additional erosion that needs to be filmed. And a further followup, uh, do we have a timeline for when this um, construction work will happen and then when road closures will be?

That's a question I'll have to turn to Miss Pagano on a timeline on when this will happen. Uh, when work will begin and also uh, when road closures and detours will be observed. Looks like she's double checking her answer. So, we'll give her one moment here. Good evening. Sorry, I was just checking with Alex. He's our bridge engineer. Um, we're planning on doing the work in the spring, probably starting in March or April, next spring, and the road will be closed for a couple of months. Okay. Thank you. With detours, of course. Thank you. Okay. Other questions or a motion, please? I'll make a motion.

Thank you, Ken. I move that the mayor and city clerk be authorized to execute a contract with Grand River Construction Incorporated in the amount not to exceed 947,265 in parenthesis $861,150 plus a 10% contingency of $86,115 for the construction of the North Union Street Bridge rehab rehabilitation project. such contract subject as to the substance by the city manager and it's formed by the city attorney with funds available in capital projects fund capital projects contingency fund and DDA TIFF 97 and further that the mayor and city clerk execute a funding agreement with the Traverse City Downtown Development Authority articulating that it will provide $150,000 in funding for the North Union Street Bridge rehabilitation project with such agreement subject to approval as to its substance by the city manager and it's formed by the city attorney. The board.

Thank you, Commissioners Funk and Treadwell. Any other discussion on this item? Seeing none, any public comment on this item? Seeing none, I'll bring it back. All in favor? I opposed. Motion passes. Okay, we'll now move on to our old business and we start with a public hearing for application of clean water. Um, We do a presentation for We do have a brief presentation from our director of municipal utilities. It's Art Kger.

Good evening. Art Kger, director of municipal utilities here with the city. Um, actually our consultant Doug Urkart from Hubble Roth Clark is going to give the presentation, but I'm just going to touch on a few high points before I turn it over to Doug. Um, this is a update of our previous five-year plan uh that we did back in 2021. And what the goal of this is to follow the Eagle stated process to qualify for lowterest loan funding over the next five years. We typically apply once per year. We include projects that uh are part of this plan. And many of those projects get into this plan through the CIP, capital improvement plan project uh lists. And so we're not committing to do all these projects in this plan. We're just making them available to finance if we get funding. And the funding process through the state of Michigan is quite competitive. But I'm happy to say our last uh five-year plan paid off very well for the city. Uh we were able to fund the sewer relocation and retaining wall uh project down on the 100 and 200 blocks uh downtown. And we also were able to uh get a large loan uh near $40 million for the wastewater treatment plant upgrade which is currently underway three-year project. So, um, this would be like round two as far as the next five-year plan. And, uh, with that, I'd like to turn it over to Doug Urkart. He is, uh, engineer with Hubba Roth Clark, our consultant, who's been helping us with, uh, drafting this plan. So, real quick before Doug speaks, he you will be able to hear him, but we're having because this is the night to have it technical

difficulties with the video, but you will be able to hear him and he can hear you. And Doug, uh, this is Benjamin Marinad. I serve as city manager, and I just want to, uh, thank you for being here and say that we've got a packed agenda with a lot of folks in the audience, and so I'd like to ask you to sort of pace yourself so you've got about five minutes for your presentation. Thank you.

Okay. Gravity is the key. All right. Thank you. Uh my name is Doug Cart. I'm an associate with Pub Rock and Clark and this presentation covers the 2026 CWS project plan. Uh next slide. So the purpose of this is to provide a forum for community participation. um go over the loan program, uh the project plan, alternatives, um costs, impacts, uh mitigations and impacts, and then finally get into scheduling questions. Next slide. So, the SRF loan program, as Art alluded to, is a low interest loan for planning, design, and construction of eligible wastewater projects. Um, currently the rate is actually 2.5%. That's a typo. So, these are uh subsidized loans uh lower than the current bond market which is um part of the appeal to the program and it's administered through Michigan Eagle revolving loans section. So, to qualify, the city must prepare uh an approvable project plan uh complete a public hearing and then pass a resolution adopting the plan. Um, as Art noted, approval and acceptance of the loan isn't decided is decided later in the process. Um, next slide. Uh, this is just an overview of the wastewater treatment plant process. It's a membrane bioreactor process which takes in waste water from uh industry and municipal customers and then with UV disinfection prior to discharge at the board. Next slide.

So the history of the wastewater treatment plant was constructed in 1932 uh with upgrades and expansions um throughout the years. The most recent project is the primary treatment UV disinfection project. Um and that's scheduled for completion in 2028. Uh next slide. All right. So these pictures show uh the well I guess the first project from the past um CWSRF project plan that was the Bordman River Wall stabilization and sewer relocation. Um so that uh addressed the resiliency of the wastewater system in um critical area and with that it provided a 1.85 875% interest loan $2.7 million loan but um because this program it has various incentives there's uh there was about $428,000 principal forgiveness associated with with that. So that amount was actually taken off of the loan. Um then the most recent project was the FY2025 primary treatment and UV disinfection project which started last year and scheduled for completion in 2018. That's the $41 million loan at 1.875%. Uh next slide. Uh there are multiple projects associated with this uh project plan. Uh three of them are at the wastewater treatment plant. Uh first is anorobic digestion digesttor 4 improvements. The second is odor control improvements and then third is membrane bioreactor enclosure. Next slide please. And then several projects are within the collection system. Uh the front street

lift station upgrades in force main east front street improvements and then east collection system force main replacement. Uh next slide please. So the needs of these projects um will address uh MPDS permit compliance um reduce infiltration inflow in the collection system. And then one of the the last project addressed um kind of a major need at the wastewater treatment plant. This one um encapsulates uh aging force mains um from both the course guard lift station and the front street lift station. So next slide. The first alternative uh is no action alternative. This one is not typically considered a favorable option um because it results in uh continued degradation of the existing facilities, potential damage to unit processes, surface water quality issues, higher energy consumption and then more costly intervention in the future. Okay, next slide please. The first project would be the continued sewer rehabilitation. So that is um to address aging concrete and clay sewers that are structurally deficient and this would include sewer, manhole and lateral rehabilitation which uh prolongs the life of the infrastructure and also reduces uh infiltration and inflow from wet weather.

Doug, it's it's Benjamin. Sorry to interrupt you, but you've got a a lot of slides left and please keep in mind that I asked if you could please pace yourself to about five minutes. So if you can use the next minute and a half to two minutes to really highlight the salient points. We just got a lot on our agenda tonight. So thank you.

Okay. Yep. Okay. So we got Front Street lift station. Uh next slide membrane bioreactor enclosure. Uh next slide please. East collection system force main upgrades. Next slide please. Uh odor control improvements. Next slide please. East Front Street sewer improvements and then finally next slide please the digesttor improvements. Um next slide please. So the overall cost of these projects so for the 5-year project plan is 26.8 million. Um final cost would be dependent on actual cost bids um and being within the SRF fundable range. Next slide please. Um so the one of the major metrics that Eagle requires is to uh uh clarify the actual cost of the project under residential per monthly cost per residential connection. Um this is not an actual rate increase. It's a rate study would completed later but this is a metric um to identify the actual um impact of the project from a cost basis. Next slide please. Um there's multiple long-term positive impacts um permit compliance and improved maintenance. Short-term impacts are are described here. Um negative impacts of those associated with construction. Next slide please. Um reversal of direct and impacts uh indirect impacts. You can go to the next slide please. So mitigation of all these impacts would be um through uh compliance with required permits and then following regulations. Next slide please. Um finally uh we're required to go over

the project plan schedule. That's it's due on May 1st. So after this meeting uh the city would pass the resolution adopting the project plan. Um and then to be considered it needs to be in by May 1st, 2026. Uh, next slide please. So, the overall project plan is shown here. Um, this was in the council packet and describes the projects through 2031. Um, next slide please. And with that, I conclude the presentation. Do we have any questions from commissioners? And because of this format, can you say your name first and then ask the question to give the audio a chance to catch up? Go ahead.

Yeah, just one. This is Heather Shaw. Um, would you say that all of these projects are critical given that you have them on a schedule for them to be completed in the next four or five years? I can answer that. Um, some are more critical than others, but we wanted to space them out within the five years. Some may to be eligible. If we got if we were awarded funding, then we could build them within that time frame. If we don't get the funding, they the ones who aren't that are not as critical could be pushed out a little bit. Well, then I just wish you the best of luck in this very difficult time for clean water and public infrastructure. Yes. Yes, agree. It's going to be a challenge. Laura,

I have a quick question. This is Laura Ness. Um, so I saw the the timetable for the application. What's the timetable to find out our eligibility? Is it is it a year? Is it six months? Is it is there a typical timetable? Because I I I recently read that this very program is kind of on the the docket to be potentially slashed by like $2.5 billion at the federal level. So I'm wondering if that changes at all the urgency around the application and our strategic priorities. Yes. So it is an annual request that we put together.

Okay. And then you submit early in the year and then you get evaluated and a point scale system gets uh graded if you will by Eagle staff and then you see where you hit with uh the competitive projects that are all over the state. So you find out I believe by midsummer to early fall of this year 26. Okay. Yeah. Each year annually. Okay. Great. Other questions? Lance, I'll make a motion that the resolution adopting a final project plan. No, we do. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I just I know it's kind of a confusing order when we have a presentation with it. Mitch, you guys

haven't opened it yet so you guys could ask questions. Question for Art. Uh, can you confirm that despite the very stressful scenario over the past week, there was no discharge or leak from either the wastewater treatment plant or our broader sewer infrastructure leading to it? That is correct. Uh, due to the flooding, we did not have any elicit discharges into the environment, which is great to hear. Thank you. Fantastic.

Yes. Thank you. That's Thank you for all the maintenance to keep that up that way. We appreciate that. Other questions. Okay, seeing none, and thank you, Lance, um I'm going to open up the public hearing that has been scheduled for the five-year project plan for the clean water state revolving fund application. It's now open. If you would like to speak on just this matter, please feel free to approach the podium. Give it a long moment here. Okay, seeing none, I'm going to close this public hearing. And now, Lance, please go ahead.

I move that the resolution adopting a final project plan for wastewater improvements and designating the city manager as the authorized representative for all activities associated with the wastewater improvement promp improvements project be adopted. Support. Okay. Oh, sorry. Was that Laura? Heather. Oh, Heather. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Everybody's very eager about this one, so I appreciate that. Okay. Any further comments from the commission on this? Okay, seeing none, I'll call it for a vote. All in favor? I opposed. Motion passes. Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you. And thank you online for uh bearing with us there. Okay. So, next we have the application uh protecting local government retirement benefit act. And I'll hand that over to you, Benjamin.

Yes, we also have our uh city treasurer finance director Heidi Shepy here if there's questions for her. But you'd have a memo in the packet and uh really what this is is uh coming into compliance with the requirement that the state has in terms of funding levels for our general employee pension fund. This is not regarding police or fire. Uh and so uh in order to move the needle in the right direction and as discussed at your January 5th meeting, yeah, January 5th meeting, uh we're recommending that uh $1.2 2 million from the fund balance be allocated uh to our defined benefit pension plan to help lower the unfunded liabilities. And this is a requirement of the state of Michigan. We really have uh no option but to comply. So I'm bringing forward this uh to you so that we're in compliance.

Do we have any questions or would somebody like to make a motion? Jackie. Um I did have a question. Uh please correct me if my information is wrong. Um, it looked like last year we made an additional payment of $300,000 and that had put us on track to reach 75% funding in nine or 10 years. Um, this year we're quadrupling that extra payment. And um, I' I'd like to know the thought behind that and does that affect our target 75% funding in nine or 10 years? Does it impact that? And if so, how? All right, we'll turn that over to our finance professional, Miss Shepy.

Yeah. So, um the 1.2 million um was taken from uh the context of the uh the commission's meeting in regards to the uh fund balance policy that we had and uh the 1.2 that will get us to the six million or to the uh 60% is the goal that I had had taken from that meeting. We do have uh we do not have to do the 1.2 million. So, if you wanted to reduce that, you could. just with the understanding um as long as we're moving the needle in the trajectory, the state will be happy. We'll just have to do this. This is our third year we'll have to do it and we'll have to continue to do this every year until we've hit at minimum the 60%.

May I ask a follow-up question? Um, are are we anticipating are we trying to accelerate this to save some money in the long term to reduce interest payments because we think there's a worsening economic conditions ahead? Um could could you fill us in a little bit more on the on the

just the theory of the the uh being fully funded with the pension is um MS has the ability to make more money than I do in in terms of holding that money and um the fund balance policy we do have a fund balance greater than our policy. So utilizing our fund balance to do this, it gives us the greater bang for our buck because MS can have it, they can invest it and they can grow it with greater um returns than what we would have here. Okay, that thank you. That rationale helps. floor.

Yeah, I think it's it's important just to remind the commission that at the January meeting, we talked about creating an ad hoc after the budget season to um address the overfunded fund balance and the underfunded pension as as Heidi alluded to and I continue to support that approach. I think it's important that we have a more deliberate and proactive conversation around both of those funds and it's not something we're going to solve in one meeting. And so I look forward to that ad hoc being created and here and we have that uh slated for September your September regular meeting.

So that's and just to clarify too though that that was part of the conversation for the fund balance. There's a larger conversation about fund balance as well. The other thing I was going to say though to the comments of today and what the request from Heidi is

yes last year we gave money. We've also given money the last few years before that and we've constantly been out of compliance for a very long time. So, we can keep hoping that we'll just get a slap on the wrist, but at some point, if we're not making a concerted effort, I mean, the state's not going to obviously haul away our leadership, but I think we have to kind of show that we're more than just, you know, it's by putting a couple cents towards a thousand donation or a loan. You're not paying anything back and you're not getting ahead. And so, that was kind of the approach here of where we've been at after many years of struggling with this. So, um, with that Oh, go ahead. You just I just want wanted to make one more comment that uh and benefits are increasing in terms of every year. So just just keeping pace.

Yeah, thank you for that reminder too. So with that, do we have more questions or a motion? Go ahead, Heather. I move that the city manager be authorized to execute the protecting local government retirement and benefit act application for waiver defined benefit pension retirement systems and further that the resolution author authorizing an additional contribution to municipal employees retirement system Merse in the fiscal year 2025 be adopted and further that a budget adjustment for the use of fund balance in the amount up to $1,200,000 for the 2025 5 2026 budget be approved support.

Okay, I'm going to give the last one to Lance. So, this one I'll give to Laura. Um, any further discussion on this? Seeing none, any public comment on this? Seeing none, I'll bring it back. All in favor? I opposed. Motion passes. Okay. Next we have our ordinance amendment um for the storm water. And Ben, do you want to kick that off? I'm going to turn it right over to our city engineer and Pano. Then I will slow it down a little because I didn't realize Ann was starting so quickly. So I'll give you a second to get settled in.

All right. Thank you. I promise to keep this to five minutes. Thank you.

I'm gonna watch the clock here. Um, since we had something on the agenda tonight, I wanted to give you an update while I was here on the MS4 permit. We've learned a lot over the last year, and I don't think we've talked about it for about a year. So, um, wanted to just give you an update. Um, our wonderful consultants from Spicer Group are here tonight, Kelsey Slatter and Erica Martell. They've just been wonderful to work with and have really helped us out a lot through this process. So, we really appreciate you guys being here. And if we have any complicated questions, they can help us. There are MS4 experts. Um, so quickly I'm going to just give a quick background on the MS4 program. I'm going to talk about the six minimum measures of a storm water management plan, the status of the permit, and talk about the ordinance revisions that we're requesting this evening. So, first of all, oh, thank you. Sorry, I skipped a thing already. Um, MS4, for those of you that aren't familiar, it's basically an acronym. MSS. So, instead of saying all the S's, you just say MS4. It's municipal separate storm sewer system. So, uh, Traverse City was identified as within an urban area of 50,000 or more people in the 2020 census and that triggered the requirement to obtain coverage under a national pollutant discharge elimination system, the NPDES permit, which is issued by Eagle um, and it's an EPA requirement. Uh, the city was notified by Eagle in February of last year that we were required to receive the permit and to apply for it. and we did apply in August and uh the application included a draft of the city's storm water management plan which is there's a link to that in the memo if you'd like to check that out. So as part of the storm water management plan there are six minimum measures. So I'm just going to go through those quickly. Uh the first two are both

related to public input. So, the public uh participation program provides an opportunity for residents to participate in the MS4 program and to review and comment the stormwater management plan. So, it'll be on our website once the permit is approved and with the ability to provide comments. And then the public education program um the purpose is to reduce storm water pollutants. Thank you Sarah. And uh through public education. So, we'll be working with regional partners to um get the word out on uh educating the public on how to reduce storm water impacts. Um the third is elicit discharge elimination. So, this is basically prohibiting and eliminating elicit discharges um connecting to the MS4. Uh so, this is a new thing that we'll be doing which is um observing all of our outfalls. There's 117 outfalls in this in the city and they each need to be observed once once per permit cycle which is 5 years. So basically 23 outlets per year will be observed and then if we see flow during drier weather it needs to be tested and determine if it's contaminated or not and if it is we have to work on eliminating that contaminated flow. Uh and we also won't be uh required to do training every cycle as well. The fourth is the um construction storm water runoff program which is basically during construction. Uh Traverse City is an MEA which basically means we um issue our own erosion control permits. So we'll be we already have a really good system for this set up. Uh we'll just be continuing to enforce that um and the requirements of the permit performing weekly inspections. we already do that and all the forms and tracking that are required and then notifying Eagle of any um uh sediment or soil discharge to our MS4. And the ordinance revision that we're requesting this evening will also help

us with enforcement of the w water quality standards. And number five is basically for after construction. Um, this is for storm water that flows to the MS4 after the construction is complete and it applies to permanent facilities such as detention and water quality facility facilities within the city. Um, and this will be applicable for new development or redevelopment projects. And again, we'll be continuing to follow the requirements of our stormwater ordinance which was already quite strong. And then number six is pollution prevention and good housekeeping. And this is basically managing facilities operated within um the MS4 such as DPS facilities. I'll just skip over to the next one just to get us to the end here. Um so the status of the permit we applied in August. Uh we addressed we went through one uh version of re revisions and um the next step is to update the ordinance which is on the agenda tonight and then we expect to receive re receive the permit in the next few months and then the cycle will be approximately 5 years and we'll have to do annual reporting through that cycle permit. And then um the ordinance I spelled out in the memo all of the revisions that we're requesting. Again, the ordinance was already really good. It was um addressed a lot of almost everything that was required with the permit and I wanted to thank everyone that worked on it just before my time, but I understand the wershed center was involved too. So, thanks to everyone that that worked on that uh ordinance. Um again, these are minor updates uh mostly clarifications and definitions allow staff to enforce non-compliance issues and I addressed every change in the memo. So if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them or call in or consult.

I have a couple. I looked at the storm water manage man management draft plan and the public education part, the measurable goals, they seemed really light, like you only needed 50 views on social media or one display uh at one event per year. But we're talking about deicing materials, pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers, hazardous household waste, you know, really important stuff. Sure. Um, so are those is that just like boilerplate stuff and minimums? We we put in the minimum required, but that doesn't mean that's all we're going to do. We just wanted to not commit to more than what's required with the permit.

You um the uh watershed storm water education is a specialty of the wershed. Are they being consulted? Are they We're going to definitely be talking with them and um and other good job with this kind of thing. Absolutely. This is really important. 50 views on social media are one display at an event. That's pretty low bar. More people than here.

Yeah. Um I have a question about the Bitner snow dump. Um it it was the only facility classified as high as high potential to discharge pollutants to surface waters given what's happened in the last week. Um I'm looking at uh in the ordinance 1068.05 about sites which uh store or use or generate. Is there some plan here to to protect that area given that it's so close to the river and it's the only highly potential risk we have in all our facilities?

I don't think we have a plan for that at the moment, but we can certainly look into that if that's a concern. I don't remember that being identified as an issue. So, it's in the the U storm water management plan draft. Okay. That's why I have Kelsey here.

Hi, good evening. I'm Kelsey Satler. So, your question is regarding the high facility. Um, so with the process of identifying these facilities, this is for the pollution prevention, good housekeeping portion of the application. And so with the high facility, normally what's done is there's a plan and put into place to make sure that the maintenance and best management practices are being adhered to on these sites. We don't necessarily have one for this specific facility, but it will be uh worked on throughout the duration of the application or of the permit issuance. Yeah. Well, given what happened uh last week, I think it'd be a good idea to put it priority to see what we can do to mitigate any entering into Absolutely. Yep.

Yep. And there's proper documentation and site inspections performed on a regular occurring um basis as well. Thank you. I have one more question. and it has to do with um page 29 of that draft plan draft was managing vegetated properties and it says if you're going to put pesticides or herbicides on anything you have to have a state of Michigan certified applicator. Um I think we agreed last year to have parks and wreck do their own maintenance. So how does that affect what you are doing there?

It doesn't I'm sorry Michelle. We don't have anyone on staff that is spraying herbicide currently. We don't have anyone certified. Nobody's using herbicides or pesticides. Correct. We've taken it out of our program. We are very glad to hear that. Thank you very much.

Other questions, Jackie? Um yes, I'm I'm delighted to hear that we are shooting to um go beyond above and beyond um the expectations of of eagle requirements and um it clearly while while the definition of the MS4 was I found a little scary, it said it's um you know a conveyance systems to carry rainwater to to our waterways and and I'm I'm interested in keeping it out of the waterways, frankly. So, thank you for your above and beyond approach. Um, I'm also glad to hear that Watershed Center is going to be engaged in the specifically in the public education efforts because I think that those are going to be critical to our success. I wondered if we could at some point have some input from you about other pieces and parts of of this. I mean, we're talking about storm water management um ordinances, but I wondered, for instance, is our is our zoning ordinance as supportive of the storm water management approach as it could be? or would there be

ways within our zoning ordinance that we could um set certain distance limits between known uh water runoff or or water contamination oriented businesses. Sure. Um sometime in the future if we could could have some expert opinion on that, I think that would be very meaningful. You bet. Yeah, we'll put that on our list. Yeah. Um Mitch,

yes, this is a a draft plan, but and it will get continually advised revised, but one thing that stands out to me and yes, this is literally the first day it comes into effect, but it does repeatedly refer to Frank Dur as the director of public works, I mean, director of public services in our prior um organizational chart. And I should hope that none of the duties that he was tasked with under this plan are getting overseen, but uh it will certainly need to be updated to reflect where those uh responsibilities fall. Certainly. And that's a that's really an operational matter that we've got under control. Thank you.

Other questions? Go ahead. Yeah, real quick. So, um I agree with Heather and Jackie that these requirements um really need to be our floor and not our ceiling. So, I'm encouraged by um the fact that we are looking beyond just these minimum requirements, but and I'm also encouraged that we are utilizing our local experts at the watershed center, but I'm wondering the EPA has a a series of um best practice fact sheets for this. And I'm wondering if we're using those as a resource or if there's some other examples of where we're looking at going above and beyond these minimum requirements. Best practice fact sheets. Is that what you said? Not the not the forms that are in the the storm water management plan, but is there something else?

Yeah, they have like a best practices fact sheet that has little clips on. Okay, we'll have to look into that. I was going to say we have consultants, so maybe this is we have I see somebody approaching here, so maybe this is something they'd like to address. Yeah, so we would utilize um whatever best available information there is that's supplied by the EPA, but Spicer Group, we've been uh working with various MS4 permittes since 2000. So, we have quite a bit a lot of um extensive um documents and things that we can utilize with the city. Great. Thank you. Do we have other questions or a motion?

I'd like to move uh that amendments to the Triber city code of ordinances, chapter 1042, sewer construction and maintenance, and chapter 1068, groundwater protection and storm water runoff control, which would update language as required by the MS4 permit. be introduced and scheduled for possible enactment on May 4th, 2026. Second. Thank you, Commissioners Anderson and Shaw. Any further discussion on this?

Very good questions already. So, thank you for that. Okay, with that any public comment on this safely say seeing none, we'll bring it back. All in favor?

I opposed. Motion passes. Okay. Next we have the pilot consideration or uh for the Orchard View Apartments. So this is another pilot that uh was already approved by the city commission for Orchard View Apartments. Um it is uh owned and managed by the housing commission, our housing partner in town. And uh this is another instance of uh Misha's process taking a little bit longer than what the resolution the original resolution called for. The housing commission um is planning to um Oh, there. She's quick. I can rescue you.

Okay. I was I was looking for someone in the crowd and I didn't see I was hiding over on the one chair that was um Well, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but renovate the existing housing and build some new um and so uh we just need to have a new resolution to allow for the timeline to uh go forth with MISTA and then hopefully we'll go from there. I just want to do I do want to make one correction um just to make sure we're blaming the right form of government for the glacial speed of government. This is actually a HUD holdup, my friends at HUD um and not at MISTA, but that would be just the one correction.

We changed our form of financing uh partway through the process uh after you guys had had granted us the pilot. And uh unfortunately, when you do that, you start over from scratch with the paperwork and there was a government shutdown in late fall and we're still sort of making up from that. Uh but ultimately, long story short, it gives us the opportunity to retain our capital funds money um and keep it at the housing commission so we can reinvested into future projects here in the community. If we were to have uh stayed with our original financing plan, which was called a section 18 disposition, we would have unfortunately had those funds absorbed by our friends outside of our community. So that is it. Um, thank you.

If you have any questions, we're looking for that uh 12-month extension on the 4% pilot so that we can uh hopefully break ground in August. We wait every day for that exciting email from Washington DC. Um, hasn't come yet, but once it does uh uh we have no concerns that we'll be able to get that started uh hopefully sometime in August. Great. Jackie, you had your hand up. Um, yes. When I was reading the packet materials, it seemed I think I saw a statement in there that um the some of the delay was due to the conversion of the 21 existing town homes to private ownership and I wondered if if that is really the limiting factor. Um is it possible to

No, that's not accurate at all. I explained it when I was here for the original pilot. So the process is HUD is having its public housing properties across the nation transition into public private partnerships that allows capital to be invested in it. For instance, the Riverview property uh downtown was originally a public housing property that in July of 22 was sold to an LDHA of which we are a partner in. So we still have that public part of the public private partnership. And thanks to that conversion going through, all of the residents retained their affordable housing. They transitioned from public housing to project-based vouchers. But what we were able to do was take that private part of the public private partnership and infuse a bunch of money. And that is how the renovations for the first time since 1976 were put into that building. We're doing the identical thing with Orchard View Town Homes, which is our property in the city annexed part of Leon. The original 21 townhouse homes that are currently public housing will transition through that process called the RAD process and become projectbased vouchers. They are finally getting renovated since the early 90s and I know our families are super excited uh because of that infusion of capital with a public and private partnership together in a new LDHA. We are building 33 additional apartments on the property of one and two bedrooms. So that's um what this is about. when we go through these sales and these transitions, we can sometimes keep those capital funds money that were originally given to us for the public housing properties. And that is the purpose of the change in this funding so that we can retain that money and use it towards new properties. As you guys know, we're going through the process with City View right now, the former Copy Central property, and we certainly enjoy having some funding to put into those future properties. So, this was a a great move by our executive director. Uh our board supported it. Um, Commissioner Treadwell is part of that and we're able to move forward which has cost us about three months, maybe four,

um, in the process. Thank you for that information, Heather. U, well, speaking of three to four months just to get this done, you actually only have 10 months of an extension because it goes to February and you're confident that that is enough time and you're not going to have Well, the extension is for groundbreaking, not for completion. It says 12 months extension. So to February and yeah, it's just groundbreaking for um you and that's enough time so you're not going to have to come back here.

The sale happens uh at that time and that's when the pilot goes into play. Uh we applied for and received a pilot from you and it gives you a certain amount of time. Had we started our construction a few months ago like we had hoped, we would have met it. We just needed to buy a few more months. But um the city attorney uh wrote this up in a perfect manner with 12 months because we all don't know exactly what happens. There's the but it's just groundbreaking. It's not completion. Sure. Lance.

Yeah. I'd like to make a motion um that the resolution granting tax exemption for the property at 102000 Carter Road to Trevor City Housing Commission at a rate of 4% and a term of not to exceed 45 years be adopted. Support Thank you, Commissioners Bulmer and Treadwell. And then um Jackie, I saw your hand was up. Oh, just just to confirm that uh low income definition for this particular property is uh below 60% area median income. Is that the threshold? Um

well, there's two different components to this property. The existing town homes uh will be part of a HUDbased projectbased voucher program and that follows our HUD administration plan. So what that means is that of all new people that move into the property, 75% of those that receive the PBBS have to be 30% or less AMI. The rest of it really has to do with math. 30% of a certain income is just going to exceed the unit. Uh the other units, the additional new 33 units that will accompany the 21 uh rens, those will be, you know, I'll be honest with you, I don't know the percentage, but it's 40, 50, 60%. I don't I don't have the numbers in my head on the new ones. Thank you, Lance.

Yeah, I'm excited about the opportunity for us to provide at least 33 more families with attainable housing and upgrades to the ones that are there too. Okay, so the upgrades are very exciting. Uh we have some pretty happy families. And one of the things I wanted to point out that makes this property so unique is when completed, we will have one, two, three, and fourbedroom properties or uh units on one property as family dynamics change and household numbers change. There are only two other properties like that in all of our county. Well, technically that's Leon, but you know what I'm what I'm talking about. Um, so that that makes that a really unique and special property as well. So, I'm excited about that. We have some really cool amenities coming with it, too. That's great. Great news. Any other questions from the commission? Okay, with that, we'll let you sit down and we'll invite anybody. Thank you very much.

Yes. Thank you for the wonderful update. Oh, and happy birthday, Lance. Yeah. And any public comment on this item? Okay. I don't hear any movement over there. So, I will say all in favor. I opposed. Motion passes. Okay. So, under new business, we're going to have um consideration of authorizing the contract for Grand View Parkway. Oh, wait. We forgot the the star of the show.

I had already I had already I wasn't trying to skip it on purpose. I had accidentally clicked it already, so it looked like it had already been done on mine. I was not trying to skip that. Um, so, uh, so I thought it was under new business. That was my fault. Um, so here we are. We're going to have you, um, kick off our discussion of the Carnegie RFP. Many apologies, everyone. That was unintentional.

Yes. Thank you. And in the packet, you've got a communication from Parks and Recreation Director Michelle Hunt summarizing the two proposals that the city received. One from Crooked Tree Arts Center and one from Traverse Area District Library. And I want to acknowledge and express appreciation for the amount of work that folks put into the proposals that they submitted. Both institutions provide meaningful experiences in our community. Uh since the city issued the RFP, we have received a tremendous amount of feedback uh from people advocating for one proposal or another. Uh with that in mind, the city approached Crooked Tree Art Center and Tatt Traversary District Library and I encouraged a willingness uh to explore the possibility of both entities located at the Carnegie building. Uh Tatt Traversary District Library did uh initially provide some strong support and willingness to uh discuss that collaborative approach with some initial asks. Uh, with respect to Crooked Tree, I do want to acknowledge that I first approached them uh, just on Wednesday of last week, and I asked them to let me know if they'd be interested in having these talks now. Also, out of acknowledgement of the fact that that was just recently brought up to them, I did offer to delay having this agenda item until May 4th to allow Crooked Tree Arts Center time to consider. Uh, they declined and indicated that their desire is to move the current RFP process forward. uh consistent with the timeline and expectations. They did say however that they are open to continued dialogue but desire direction from the city commission. Uh they've also asked Crooked Tree that is that uh we consider a lease extension uh should the decision-making process be delayed much further. Uh their current lease does expire October 31st of this year. And so I do think that that request is certainly reasonable and it's something that I would work on and bring back to you. So, at the meeting tonight, I'm

seeking direction from the commission on how you wish to proceed. Uh, and as I indicated in my memo, things to consider include, but aren't limited to my recommendation, which is that the city commission direct me to have uh, conversations with both Crooked Tree Art Center and Traverse Area District Library to convene conversations with both parties to determine the feasibility of joint occupancy. And if so, to negotiate those lease arrangements uh, and bring those back to the commission for consideration. If we have those discussions because we haven't had them yet uh and it appears as though it's not feasible then I will return to the city commission for direction on next steps. So that's my recommendation. The other options to consider include if you desire uh to stick with evaluating the proposals as officially submitted uh to provide any direction on any additional information you might wish in order to make a decision or three uh to direct me to negotiate a short-term lease extension uh with Crooked Tree. Um I do want to say of course at the end of the day the decision is up to the city commission. I do want to make note uh it wasn't included in my cover memo but I meant to uh include it that uh we did increase uh Traverse Area District Library score uh and that is because originally they were uh scored so that they didn't receive any points uh the library didn't receive any points for their credit report because they do not have a traditional credit score just like the city of Traverse City can't have one. However, the equivalent is having a a great bond rating. they have that and so I did uh instruct the team to give them maximum points. So essentially what you have in terms of scoring on the rubric alone is two tied proposals. I think that underscores uh the basis for my recommendation but I um I respect uh that this decision is a city commission and that's all that I've got for now. And then one thing I wanted to clarify is if there's any variation of um

recommendation on the first item understanding that that doesn't oblige anyone to come to that agreement. Three would could still be in play too though, right? Even if we decide to everybody talks there's no, you know, push it out to a worst case scenario or best case depending on which way you're looking at it that there's no sharing and then we bring it back for further deliberation. and that would obviously delay a decision more, but we'd have more information at hand that would then also give crooked a fair shake no matter what. So, um I think that that I want didn't want to say that it was an eitheror out of the three that there can be variations of how we make this work for everybody so nobody feels under the gun or that um we're being unfair in any way, shape, or form. Even if it's a renewal, that can still leave a lot of things up in the air. So, Lance, go ahead. Yeah, I just wondering um Ben, could you tell us uh kind of the rationale behind um changing kind of the process uh on us a little last minute? Uh you know, we had a great I think we had a great RFP process. Everybody submitted uh RFPs um or the two parties did. Um and I'm just curious why are we why are we looking at this now joint merger, it's not something that the commission had discussed in our study session when we were drafting the RFP. Um, and so I'm just curious what what

it's really that uh I mean I I respect that that is the case that the uh RFP was laid out with the criteria the two parties responded with that criteria in mind and that is very true. Uh to me this is one of those opportunities that sometimes it makes sense in my mind to pause and think again. Uh, and it really is, it just came out of the, uh, recognition that we have a tremendous amount of advocacy across this community for each entity. And so, uh, why not try to have a conversation, uh, give Crooked Tree a lease extension, and if it doesn't appear as though there's a viable joint occupancy scenario, then we just don't do it. And um uh so that's really my basis. It's not uh anything beyond that.

Laura. Yeah. And I I think in addition to the tremendous amount of advocacy we've heard from both Cricut Tree and Tattle, we've also had I've received a tremendous amount of advocacy to look at a collaborative approach. Um, I've been approached by many citizens who are interested in at least seeing whether or not that's an option that's on the table or that could be on the table. And I think this is actually a really good problem to have. We received two exceptional proposals each from valued community members. And it's a tie like 120 to 120, a plain out tie. And how do we choose between local history and the arts? I mean, for me, these aren't competing uses, they they certainly could be complimentary. If one proposal had clearly outperformed the other, I'd support moving forward tonight. But that's just not the case. Um, I think this is a situation where we have the opportunity to move from a a win-lose decision to what could be a win-win opportunity for potentially both organizations. And as Amy alluded to, um, we always have the option if these conversations just don't work. It's it's it's a slight delay to come back and choose between the two. So, let's not make this a binary choice or a proverbial split the baby move. I really like the idea of a shared model. I think that the approach aligns really well with our strategic plan with placemaking partnerships, shared assets. It's a way to maximize community benefit. Um, as I said, several benefit several residents I've spoken with have told me they want to see more collaboration in that space. So, my personal perspective, it's it's worth taking a little bit of time to explore whether or not this approach will work. I hope that it can. Um, and I support giving staff the direction to move in that direction.

Other thoughts, commissioners? Go ahead, Heather. And then

I don't usually oppose changing horses in the middle of the stream, but it is a little awkward when you've actually gotten to the other side of the stream and then you're changing horses. Um I deeply regret regret that this whole issue has gotten muddled up with bad feelings and hurt feelings and some uh backstory. But I generally feel that flexibility is a good it's a an advantage leads to long life and good bones. Um and I think flexibility is a good thing in this case as well particularly when it is our responsibility as elected officials to listen to all residents not to make decisions based on uh personal preferences. As comm uh pro mayor prom neess said we have a 5050 here. Let's not make it a an all win and all lose. I would very much like to meaningfully meaningfully extend and support Crooked Crooked Trees lease while making space to find a solution that benefits Crooked Tree, the Confoster Collection and the residents of Traverse City. Does that mean a shared space? Maybe. It is a fact that the Khan Foster collection is housed at great expense in the lower level of the Carnegie and that it needs a home for display. I'm not sure that what what the library is proposing is the best solution, but I would very much like to think that there is a solution that can be found with collaboration and diplomacy.

Thank you very much. Well, Jackie,

um I likewise am in favor of uh the city manager's recommendation to attempt to find a a shared solution. I think many times going in with an attitude of yes and can result in a better a better outcome for everyone. So I I would like to see us move in that direction. I think I I foresee challenges. you know, you have two organizations that have different funding models, which led to, you know, an RFP and and scoring rubric that didn't really fit both organizations well. Um, but I do believe that, um, it would benefit the community for us to see these organizations work hard to find, uh, points of agreement and and ways to have a shared space. I'll go over. Mitch, do you want to go first or

You can first.

So, I I wrote down my thoughts just like all the other commissioners on this. And um what probably should have been a routine lease renewal contract extension became an RFP process because of facilities, maintenance, and mechanical needs of the Carnegie building. Whether that was the appropriate thing to do at that time or not, it's what we decided as a commission to do. RFPs were submitted and were evaluated by staff to determine their merits and worth according to our prescribed criteria. Before those RFPs were officially made public, local media agencies were provided special access to those RFPs, which has significantly contributed to the level of concern in regard to the outcome and with regard to competing public interest. During this process, the city staff members exper um a city staff member experienced a catastrophic personal tragedy that has contributed to the lengthening of this process. As of recently, some commissioners, myself being one of them, were presented with exploring the option of potentially sharing the space. I entertained the idea as a possible solution to this burning question of how do we prioritize the importance of the arts versus history. There is no winner in that argument. But as a possible solution to the question of the RFP, it we proposed this question. It didn't seem unreasonable to ask if there was a potential for a mutually beneficial agreement. Could we possibly make everyone happy for the first time in the history of government? As it now seems, there is not enough supporting interest, I believe, in a shared space agreement, which is okay with me and consistent with the initial RFP process's intent. The question is presented as through this process as what do we do with the con foster collection and its importance to this discussion? The city has been sitting on the collection for a considerable amount of time and I believe that it is important that we take action and give some direction on

this. I believe that is very noble of the library to chase this pursuit and a question that came up was if crooked tree doesn't want to share want to agree to share the space are they the right tenant but after some thought I found myself wondering would the library commit to sharing financial and personal resources for artifacts inventory and cataloging if they aren't selected as the RFP so to look at those two in the same kind of perspective and if that's the case is the library the right tenant. Would the city force a retail business owner in a city-owned property on Front Street under the opera house to share their lease space with a potential tenant as part of a lease agreement renewal? I don't think that would be appropriate. The building's maintenance and mechanical systems needs are the city's problem, not Crooked Trees. The Confoster Collection is the city's responsibility, not the libraries or crooked trees. I hope that the library, if interested, will work with the city to continue and exped expeditedly complete the cataloging and inventory process of the remaining Confoster collection so that when it is time an appropriate display and celebration of these regional heritage artifacts can be produced. As a city, we need to work with interested organizations to move this along and or put money behind this if it is a priority. None of this is Crooked Trees problem and is not reasoning for not renewing their lease on the building. As a city and elected representatives of this community, I think one of the highest factors that we will be measured against is did we do what we said we were going to do. In this case, we requested proposals and we received two responses. We need to decide tonight which one we are going to advance.

Thank you. Can I ask I will say I will say this. Crooked Tree Art Center has responsibly and timely met its contract contractual obligations since March of 2015 and through five contract renewals that reflected appropriate rent increases.

Can I just ask I just wanted to clarify you mentioned the media had special access to the RFPs. Can you elaborate on that for me? I'm not sure. I could go into that because I have an email I have a line of thoughts on that as well. But I feel that there was an article I don't want to name I don't want to out anybody. There was an article in the social media news article about the RFPs for Carnegie and Con Foster or for the Carnegie building and for the Beiju. The information that was detailed in that social media article was f was far advanced information than than the public should have known. But that information hadn't been published in an agenda packet or given to commissioners yet. So it was frustrating for me that people had a lot of information that we as commissioners didn't have yet. I will find dates if you really want. We can look.

Yeah, that's we can even talk offline. I will say that um uh media outlet did ask for the RFPs and I did we did share those with that media outlet and at the same time also shared those with the city commission. Uh at least I did. We asked for those because the email response was there seems to be a lot of interest in this. So here they are. Well, that was there was a lot of interest from the commissioners, myself being one of them, because a lot more information had been shared with social media than had been shared with the commissioners or the public in an agenda packet release. So, that was my concern with that and it kind of contributing contributed to the spiraling spiraling of this whole process and people taking sides. So, it's it's a it's a personal problem I had with the process. It doesn't mean that it was wrong or bad, but it was something that I identified as something I would like to not see in the future.

Yeah. Well, I definitely want to have that conversation with you offline. Absolutely. Okay. So, um Mitch had his hand up next or Lance can go.

Okay. And I'll go next. Uh we entered this scenario uh because we have a building that the city owns that has I would say uh not just uh sub substantial maintenance issues but maintenance issues that exceed that of a typical building of its age which is significant. It was not it was built to be a nice building um over a hundred years ago. It was then expanded and updated uh over the decades I would say inconsistently and um that has left it with uh lingering maintenance and needs. Uh that was one of the biggest reasons in addition to the need for more space that um Travers Area District Library uh moved out of that facility to Woodmir. for many years after that um it did provide a space for the uh con foster collection to be publicly viewed to be um inventoried. Did that get the best use of it? No. Uh because there was lingering um funding issues associated with that. Um there was the lack of appropriate uh curatorial staff but it was a continuing purpose of that uh building in that role. It shared uh that space and that purpose with multiple organizations uh the local rock club, the model railroaders club um in a way that I would love to see going forward that being a shared space. Um and while Tattle has presented um that they can modify their uh vision for that space to a shared agreement,

I have uh heard much less um support from Crooked Tree towards a shared use, which I'm a little disappointed by, but I think that we can um look towards a future in which we can embrace both history and the arts and it's um how and where that happens and what the city's role in that will be. Thank you. Um Lance, you had your hand up. No, I didn't.

Okay. Well, I I'm going to say something really quick because we've gone through the I do see you, Jackie, though. Um one thing I just wanted to say was part of the process that it's been brought up. Um yes, we are we were looking at the financial viability of city-owned properties, period. And to the point about businesses, we don't know what'll happen because the business leases are the next phase of us trying to update our work on an updated policy. What we did come out of though, and um I will say this from the last time the Beiju was automatically renewed when it was under the film festival, that raised the question of and I just want to re like kind of resettle a little bit of where this conversation started of if somebody's in a city-owned property, is that an automatic lifelong lease then for the duration of the organization or the or the um business or whatever else might be occupying it? And so that's where started to kind of come along with this idea of 10-year leases with fiveyear checkups or other things along those lines. It's maybe a flawed system too. Maybe we have to look at 100red-year leases with the dollar or something like that if this is going to be if that's where we actually do want to take it. But I wanted to add a little bit of context. This wasn't just about not having money to repair a building. It was also creating a new process. And this just happens to be at it. It's not about crooked. Cricut has been an institution now. It's not about the library having been there before or wanting to go in now. This is just part of a process of kind of no automatic renewals, which is ironic because I think both uh the library and others have moved to automatic renewals if you're running behind on things. But this is where we're at and this is why we're here. And so I don't want it to be targeted at cricetry because they're just doing what they promised. You know, they're just doing what they did as part of the process. And and I appreciate that they when we started these conversations said, "Yep, that makes sense. We're going to bid. we're going to put our best bid forward and that's where we're at. And this new idea has been introduced in the last week. And I don't want to paint them as not being cooperative either. This is a lot that we're putting on people all at once. Um,

but I I do have to say though, the one thing I wanted to point out that has been pointed out is there is the con foster collection in the basement and that is already part of the lease and it takes up a huge amount of space. So, as we're talking about what this looks like going forward and going into it, right now we pay someone a ridiculously little amount of hours a month to go through that collection and it is going very slowly. So, what that amount of space that Tedle gets, we know what they've requested. How that cooperation works forward, I think, is very open to negotiation and discussion. So I don't want it also if we do instruct um Benjamin to go forward to have the feeling that it must be each proposal exactly intact as it is. That's what a negotiation is. And that's where we can get into um maybe some of the the purposes behind having different partners more than just here's a tape line down the middle of not that anybody's going to do that a tape line down the middle of a room and you're on your side and I'm on mine like a you know from a 70s TV show. So I I just wanted to kind of re re kind of reenter that in this happening of we went a long time with some automatic renewals. It was a problem with one of the businesses that's on Front Street that's still there when it had a change over. It was a problem with the Beiju with the um film festival. So that is really the heart of this. It's not about these this particular building or any particular tenants right now. So with that Jackie, sorry I just wanted to put my two cents in.

Thank you very much. Um, this is a I think pretty simple clarifying question. Um, in terms of the the status of um, Crooked Trees current lease, do I remember accurately that right now they are on an extension, a 12-month extension of their prior lease that was granted about the same time last year? Yes. Thank you. Okay. Is that extension a renewal and not any different than the previous four renewals before that, though? because that's what it looked like. When you look at those contracts, it's there are five agree it's addendums is what they're called. And it's just an extension of the existing agreement for another period of time with a rate increase.

Yes. Yes. Okay. So, it's not an extension in the sense that hey, we'll give you some more time. It's a it's a renewal of the lease as it was the first day or for a specific period. Yes. Thank you, Heather. Go ahead. Yeah. and the these extensions, this whole lease thing is really important. I think uh Crooked Tree has been a good tenant. We have huge community uh support. So, I think that um at the very least we we need to give them a one-year extension

with a fiveyear extension attached to that um as that includes adherence to the results of the collab collaborative process so that Cricut will know that they've got a one year plus a regular old fiveyear as long as there's some kind of an agreement and that's up to you Benjamin to use your diplomacy to make something happen. Uh whether it's sharing the space or not sharing the space, but you're going to have to make everyone happy. No major expectations. I really feel strongly that we have to give them the we have to give them the I time.

I agree that we need to give them some time. The exact amount of time is something I'd like the flexibility to work out. And I would just add in too as we talk about the different scenarios, if you're making good progress and we meet on the fourth and they're just not quite there, I would be happy to see if that's the direction the commission goes in. I'm just thinking of all of our options. Some are very linear and very black and white. Um, but if that's the direction the commission goes in, then come back on the May 4th and give them a renewal of however or extension of however many months to make sure that that's fair so that they're not under the gun completely with the negotiation either. and feeling like, well, if we don't agree to something we don't want to agree to, then

we're going to be out in in October and who knows what's going to happen. I guess we have to take it. So, I want us to make sure that if there's some good faith conversations happening or a, you know, obviously if there's a final decision of any kind that can come to that meeting, but if there's some good faith negotiations happening, it's getting some details. I'd rather have us good have good details and a good contract of whatever comes next than feeling like somebody's under the gun because they they have to be out in October or something else. I just want to say in terms of managing expectations, if the commission's direction is for me to convene the parties, I it will not be on your May 4th agenda. Uh but potentially an extension of Crooked Trees lease at that meeting or maybe the May 18th city commission meeting of a year.

Yeah, I will just I would look from a business continuity standpoint, right? We're government up here. Doesn't so much matter because our years just keep going uh on and on and on. Um, but a business has to plan and I worry that if we don't set a date for an extension, uh, you know, then they're going to miss out on grant funding and miss out on other fundraising opportunities because we're just being wishy-washy about it because we can just keep kicking it down, right? We've already put this off a year.

The the library, they've got a millillage. It continues for, I think, 20 years. Um, so they've got a lot a lot of time to plan. Um, and Crooked Tree has a lease that is expiring in October and that worries me that we just don't we're just not giving them a date um to at least business plan. So, that's my thought around that and why I do support, you know, defining something, and then Ken and then Laura. Well, that was I think I spoke before, Lance. Yeah, it

Yeah, I I really I really feel strongly that it has to be a year from October. They have to have all that time. Um, whatever happens, they need that time for it is it's a business decision. You just can't work monthto month. That's and it's disrespectful. They've been there for how many years now as a good tenant. Ken in the morning.

As I said in what I read earlier, I expressed support for the enjoying or entertaining the idea of the collaboration conversation because I was informed that one party was interested. They're both very valuable community organizations. They deserved the see if there's interest from the other party. There wasn't interest. So in that sense I was fine with not moving forward with the collaboration discussion. So I understand that one of the things that happens is when we talk about something we give it life. It was it was something that was worth giving some life to that discussion. But I don't think that's a direction that we necessarily is is the primary purpose of this discussion you know on whether or not we leave here with a shared lease agreement. I'm fine with that. that we can go back to the original intent of the RFP, which is what we said we're going to do, and we can pick one. I think that there is value in the discussion and having the conversation after the fact. Are you willing to work with this organization for to, you know, bring the bring the Khan Foster collection to fruition because that might be displayed in that Carnegie building someday. So, I I do not want to kick the can on this decision. Like, it would be the most Trevor City Commission thing to do is to avoid a difficult decision and push it off another

I yeah I want to clarify one thing though Ken right now Tattle is not in charge of the collection though I know they're not but if but they have ex part of their intent with the RFP was we are interested in doing work with that collection okay that's great right but I was just going to say so going back that would be something that would be negotiated yes but that does not mean that that is part of a shared lease agreement could be could be I because it's could be separate. The collection occupies space. So that could be the you get this space and nothing else. So I I get that. But that's one of those those thought processes that happen after you know we put the RFP out there

as we start thinking about it because so much time has passed. We've had the opportunity to think about all the potential that exists. Especially when we've been able to look at these two RFPs and what was in them for such a long period of time. It does make sense that we look at these and say, wouldn't it be nice if these two could play well together, but that obviously isn't the case and it wasn't what we agreed upon in the initial RFP. So, I'm content with making a decision and going forward with one tonight. I think that's appropriate. Kicking the can is not. And I know that's a hard decision, but we need to make a decision tonight. Does anybody agree with that? That's Laura has her hand up for something else, and I don't think so.

I I would agree. We need to provide direction to the city manager tonight. Um and his recommendation was to have a short period of time to approach both parties to see whether or not there's the opportunity for collaboration at the Carnegie building. I don't view this as a wishywashy kick the can down the road decision at all. I think in what we're what we're faced with is we did an RFP and it's tied. It's it's not that one clearly outweighed the other where we can make a decision like that. And this commission made the decision to enter into the RFP process, not into a lease renewal contract. Those are two very different things. If we wanted to just move ahead with renewing Crooked Trees lease, we should have just done that and not not put out an RFP to establish kind of competing priorities. I think uh

I don't view this as wishy-washy. I mean, I think you had some really new commissioners. Uh the three of us being those people. Um and we were just kind of this was put in front of us as if we're doing an RFP and the option isn't to just renew a lease. Uh at least in that in my mind, that's kind of how it looked when it was brought to us at the meeting. Um

I I didn't view it that way, but I appreciate that that perspective. I I just think we have in a few short weeks we have the opportunity to look at whether or not through some level of collaboration and partnership. Do we have an opportunity to expand programming and stewardship of the Khan Foster collection with with some level of collaboration? If it's not there, it's not there. Um then bring it back to this group and and we will have to choose. I personally think it would be shortsighted to make a decision tonight choosing one or the other. That's a win-lose, Mitch. Jackie.

Yeah. A year ago, we did have a re a lease renewal um before us. And at roughly the same time, we had uh another proposal. It wasn't as flushed out as we see in the RFP, but it was a proposal.

And um we decided at that time, not just that there were uh an upcoming election and there would be new commissioners, but uh that we hadn't gone through a transparent and open RFP process to actually see what the options were. We decided that we would renew the lease for one year and explore the RFP process, put it out and actually see what the proposals we got came back. We spent a lot of time developing what that RFP would look like. We spent many discussions. staff spent untold hours um analyzing them and putting uh the information together for us. So, while we don't have to reach a conclusion now at this meeting, I think we should uh have an idea about what we're doing going forward and respect the RFP process that we are not just looking at a lease renewal, but we are trying to decide what is the best use of the space and what the city's resources should be used for going forward. Jackie,

um I am trying to prioritize community benefit and how broadly the community may be able to benefit. I agree with Commissioner Nes that we are blessed to have two such strong applicants with um distinctly different visions for the space. But I do believe that investing a a defined amount of time into attempting to bring those parties together to act as a convenor um before making a choice is most likely to benefit the largest number of citizens in our community.

I would agree, Jack. And I'll Heather, just if I can really quick sign, go ahead. So that this this is a direct followup to that. I think that if we're talking about um the diplomatic process happening over the next month and then coming back to us then then that's okay. Yes, that is my intent. Any longer than that, we have to make a choice. We have to make a choice within 30 days.

I can commit to that uh that we would be back in front of you uh within a month. And I will say that I uh respect the points that both you, Commissioner Shaw and Commissioner Bulmer, made about we have an existing tenant who's trying to run a business and I uh respect that they shouldn't just be kept hanging there. And uh when I said I'm not I wanted some flexibility on the period of extension. It's that I want to have the opportunity to talk with them about what that looks like. And I just want you to know that I I I respect the situation they're in and I I honor that. So,

and the only other thing that I was just going to say to all of this is um just going back to the kicking the can down the road. I know everybody likes to use that about our commission and sometimes it is, but we also take at least two meetings to decide even on an ordinance, right? We do possible introduction and then we vote. I don't think that we'd be doing the public a service if we only made a decision tonight. Even if there wasn't both options, I think it would be irresponsible of us. Now, this meeting might have looked different. or we might have had presentations from both parties or something else, but just looking at a rubric and deciding that night is just not good governance anyways. It doesn't have to be dragged out for a month inherently. But I don't think that that's really how this commission's ever operated. And so I just wanted to clarify that a little. We don't take major decisions lightly and we like to make sure we have all the questions we can and send staff back with answers and and such. So, um I I think this fits into that. What I'm hearing if we really want to kind of summarize it is people the commissioners would like to hear more of is there some kind of compromise that or or a agreement that could be made between both parties. It might not be but I think that's what I'm hearing from a consensus. Now what that ultimate looks like and what that's brought back to us as might be and I say consensus not major and not over you know not unanimous um will be what we will determine how we go forward is that fair to summarize as we're instructing staff as we move forward right now as where the conversation so far has led

has anybody could you resummarize that sorry I know sorry so the summary was basically that we are instructing staff being Benjamin to go and talk to part both parties to see if there's some kind of agreement that can be made between the two of them. What that looks like and how it gets hammered out. We are not prescribing. We're letting them decide that and have that conversation. And it might be that there is none. Um but we want that information brought back to us before we make a decision within 30 days.

Within 30 days. Yes. And I would like to add if anybody unless anybody disagrees that at the next meeting we will also have some conversation at least or have an update on what that lease could look like too. I don't want us getting to 30 days out and then another meeting potentially and not having a clearer picture of where of crooked having a clearer picture of where they might be. Um, so when you say when you say 30 days, is that referencing the May 4th meeting?

No, I'll have something back. And on May 4th, I intend to bring an extension of Crooked Trees lease to you. Uh, uh, potentially. Uh, and then May 18th is the deadline by which that's your second regular meeting in May. and I would have a report back to you with possibly a a joint occupancy sort of arrangement or couldn't get there. Here's here's where we're at. Yep. But we spent a month trying um and that duration will be recommended by May 4th. We will be voting on a one-year extension of the We don't know how long it'll be. That'll be after conversations.

I' I'd like to I I don't think it's good to negotiate things on the floor terms like this. I I promise you that I will work with Crooked Tree to come up with something that seems equitable, but the the duration I don't want to commit to at this point. If you give me one, I will. I have to. But that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. So, that's

But I I just think I I think everybody here deserves a clear understanding of what's going to happen tonight. And what is that? Well, if if the commission goes this way, uh it would be that I will work with uh both organizations to uh determine if there's a a way for them both to be at Carnegie building and what that looks like uh and bring back uh a recommendation to you on uh lease agreements uh accordingly. Uh and that would be at no later than the May 18th meeting. I might come back to you at that May 18th meeting and say we couldn't come up with anything. uh and and here we are and then the city commission makes a decision and if you want to go with either of the two, you are not and I say this respectfully, you are not obligated to go with either of them. Uh but that would be uh what I would what I would return to you with.

Do we need to make a motion? I would like a Is there a sample motion in the packet? I'm the motion if I can find it or Jackie found it. I think I have it here. Um, let's see if we need if it needs tweaking, but um I move that the city commission direct the city manager to have conversations with both uh Cricut Arts Center and Traverse Area District Library to convene conversations to determine feasibility of a joint occupancy lease arrangement and to return to the city commission no later than May 18th with his recommend recommendation based on those conversations. Perfect.

Second. Thank you, Jackie and Laura. Okay. If we can have any more final thoughts, I'd like to open up for public comment. Okay. So, because there is a motion, we will have public comment. Can I have a raising of hands to see how many people intend to speak? And then there's people in the other room as well. Maybe. I see some may. I see some yeses. Um, what time is it? Let's take a little break. Okay. Well, we can't Can we take a break? You can take a five minute.

So, actually, sorry. We're going to take a five-minute recess. This is in part to um give ourselves time to sit for a captive audience for com for public comment and also students, you can come get your signatures if you would like. Um, I'm very aware of you all in our crowd and don't want you to be falling asleep in your first hour tomorrow. Oh, that's signing. Yeah, right. signatures and all signings for Hello.

All right, everybody. We're going to call the meeting back to order. Please take your seats. No, it doesn't make sense.

Okay, I'm gonna call the meeting back to order. There's a longer we have found out there's a longer delay than we thought. So, if people in here and in the other room, if you want know you want to make public comment, if you can start lining up, I'm going to have Sarah read the rules and we will jump right into public comment then. So, please, if you don't mind, Sarah, go right ahead and everybody please start kind of filtering. Okay. Okay, we ask that you state your name and address. Indicate if you're a city resident, non-city resident, and or city business owner. We have a three-minute time allotment per speaker. When your time is elapsed, the timer will beep. And finally, request that all language be respectful to all parties. And we ask that there are no applause, reactions, or other manners of individual speaking. And if you could please start lining up, thank you very much.

Over to that side. I see some people over here too. So, start line up over there and we'll snake out. Sorry, I know it's crowd management. We don't do that a ton. So, thank you for your patience with us. And I'll let Sarah, if you don't mind, we'll give everybody a second to settle in so we don't interrupt your time while people are are getting situated. So, I want you to have your your full time. All right. And please proceed.

Thank you. My name is Brett Bolter, uh 5920 Boone Road in Traverse City, but I'm also the facility manager for the Traverse Area District Library. And I just wanted to uh bring my viewpoint uh forward about the the two collections, the K Foster collection and the local history collection. Khan Foster enjoys uh a good environment at the moment, although it's not curated very well. And uh the local history collection has great curation uh and could benefit from a better environment. I think there's an opportunity here for some synergy there and I think it's a pretty valuable opportunity. Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Ann George. I live at 8584 Reynolds Road in Traverse City. And I'm a member of Crooked Tree. Thank you. Thank you.

And a short member of Crooked and uh a member of a group that meets every week. So I I have a real value in connection to the organization. I'm also a member of the library and use the library a lot. But I'm disturbed tonight listening to all of you for your very thoughtful remarks. But it seems as if okay, we're going to not do the RFP right now. We're not going to vote on that. But we're only going to consider this one option. We're not going to consider any other option such as why could would it be possible for the library to make use of the Beiju to display the conoster collection or some other displays. Just a thought to throw in. I I know that complicates things, but if we're opening it to a different discussion, I don't know why we're only considering one and wasting a month on one discussion. Perhaps wasting, perhaps not. But that's my thought. Thank you.

Thank you.

Fred Nelson, 2096 Street in Trevor City. Um, I have more than a casual interest living a half a block away from the CargI building. Um, I have absolutely nothing against crooked being a member and friend and all that. However, the bu building, the CargI building was built to be a library. it was built and given to the city. I think that's the use that should be there. Now, if it's you guys work on a co-op deal, that's fine. But I do want to see the city collection resurrected from the basement and displayed where people can see it. Not necessarily all the time, but uh so that people can casually go through and look. Plus, there's a tremendous amount of stuff in the library that needs to be archived somewhere. Thank you.

Thank you. Jan Chapman, 118 East 12th Street, Traverse City, Michigan. Um, I thought about this a lot. I'm going to try and be as diplomatic as I can, but I must say I'm disappointed in how this whole process took place. There were two groups that were asked to submit an RFP. 24 hours before the meeting, change horses in the middle of the stream. That seems wrong to me when you were asked to fill out an RFP and have it done by a certain date. Um the currently crooked is paying $55,000 a year for rent. That's great revenue. The Travers Library is uh um I lost the word, but um they're voted on. Um with Crooked Tree scoring the highest,

Millage, thank you. uh with crooked scoring the highest. Then through communication with crooked, they're invited to redo their or to bring their RFP up to what it was supposed to be. Would that have been allowed if somebody else and crooked was not allowed? They weren't a part of any of the discussions for a joint partnership. All the conversation was with the library. That's was unfair to crooked. Be like if you had two builders that wanted a piece of land and they were both given their RFPs to the city or whatever you desire and then you said, "Okay, guys, we want you to share the property, you know, and you only had discussion with one builder and you didn't have discussion with both builders. Um, I think that was very unfair. Um, I in closing, I hope that the city improves their communication and does what they say they're going to do. In reading the ticker this morning, I got really upset and I don't know how much of I I'm sure it was all valid. I know, Luke, but it says, "A tremendous amount of feedback has prompted city and library staff to propose a new approach. It's kind of late for two entities of the building according to city manager. Crooked staff meanwhile has expressed cons significant concerns about the pro proposals and asking commissioners to continue the request for RFPs as designed and then uh um

thank you. received so much feedback from people advocating for one proposal or another. Your time has elapsed. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello. I'm Susie Louden Matz. I am an employee of Crooked Tree. I am a um Oh my gosh, I've got my husband's talking points. I'm not Michael Matz. Oh my gosh, I can't find my pressure. Okay, I'm a a guest experience associate at Cricut Tree and I say uh I say upfront that this is very personal to me. Not because I might lose my job, but rather because I have personally witnessed day in and day out the tremendous individual, family, and community vitality that crooked generates throughout the year. The reality is if you do not select the library, nothing changes. The main library and its branch libraries continue to function as is. The Confoster collection continues to be cataloged and the Confoster collection addressed in the library submission was not identified to be addressed in your RFP. However, not selecting Cricut Tree, a successful 10-year partner with the city, not just a tenant, will personally impact hundreds and hundreds of people, artists, supportive art businesses, students, parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and visitors across a broad range of racial and socioeconomic demographics. Crooked Tree provides something nothing else in the community does. It is the heart and soul, a spiritual center that contributes significantly to our quality of life. I urge you to go forward with Crooked Tree submission so that the organization could get beyond this process to get back to a focus on growing its programming and further enriching our community. Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm Paul Leaport. I live at uh 6427 Cedar Mir in Peninsula Township. I want to start out by thanking you all here present for all your service for our beautiful community. There's going to be a lot of comments tonight about your unusual approach to the process and scoring of these RFPs and the proposals that resulted. I'm not going to talk about though that part. I want to talk about four cohort groups within the service purview of Crooked Tree and how they would be materially, substantially, and undeniably affected by any loss of space in that that we currently enjoy. The first is paint Grand Travers. It's been in all the papers for the last seven years. You know about it. I don't need to talk about it. we it's on the national uh radar of art centers around the country. The next one I want to talk about is Arts for All was a nonprofit in this community serving mentally and physically handicapped artists went out of business last year and Crooked Tree came up and salvaged the programming that would have been denied these vulnerable citizens. uh and I think that that would be materially affected by any change. The third one is the youth art show. Last week we showed we closed the youth art show annual uh show that represents 30 was represented by 36 schools in this region not just in Traverse City but in

the region and um over a thousand students had their work on display. If we lost the gallery space that we enjoyed, we would no longer be able to have the same impact on those students lives. University of Michigan Stamps School of Design was here and Center for Creative Studies in Detroit, affiliation with the Detroit Institute of Arts was here. both of them with fistfuls of money that were given to students in scholarships to their organizations that would materially be uh subject to a detrimental loss for our community and and for these students. The fourth one that I want to talk about is an affinity group of visually impaired artists. Um, now that I'm legally blind, that means an awful lot to me personally, but it's a an unknown.

Thank you.

Aaron McCall, 1676 Maple Ridgeway, Traverse City, non city resident, but I am the systems librarian for Traverse Area District Library. I'm here to show my support for the for the library because I believe it will use the Carnegie building to build a bridge between the historical past and future potential of diversity. Title has repeatedly shown that they lead through strategic direction and commitment to the responsibilities in serving the community, especially when in partnership with members of the community and that does include Cricut Tree Art Center if the opportunity for joint occupancy is pursued. Bridging the context of history with the importance of the arts. Title has the capacity to be long-term stewards of the building, the grounds, and the Confoster collection within with proven expertise in following sustainable practices. I have my full faith in their ability to carry the Carnegie building into the next chapter of community connections in partnership with Crooked Tree that's on the table and the traditions of Traverse City. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening. Uh my name is Robin Stanley. I live at 229 Birwood Avenue in Traverse City, 49686. Uh I am speaking as a citizen when I thank you for this conversation. And now I'm going to speak as an employee of Traverse Area District Library. I am currently the curator of the local history collection at the library. I'd like to say that uh I've been a curator for a long time, my whole life. uh special collections, art collections, and I've worked around numerous institutions and special collections. There are many elements that go into a successful collections project, and I'd like to talk about one of those because I think it gets overlooked in the project in the process of talking about these issues. I have personally experienced the literal transformation of commitment in regards to the local history collection at the Traverse Area District Library. I've seen the local history collection go from literally a line item in the budget to total organizational support. And I'll explain that really quickly. Uh I'm one of a very small staff at the library right now, but I have seen support from the library in these departments, administration, marketing, technology, facilities, and every individual department at the library. and also our board at uh which has been tremendously supportive of what we're doing. Um the reason is for all of this support is the leadership of Michelle Howard. Michelle Howard has consistently supported local history for this community and lo and and other uh projects as well. but her her commitment to the local history collection has been phenomenal and I wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for her support.

Um, she's done this also not just for the library to say that we have a local history collection or that we're stewarding it, but she's doing it for the community. So what I want to say, the last thing I want to say is um I was asked early on in this whole discussion, you know, what um why uh what why have a the history collection at the Carnegie? What do you think of that? Uh I have unique uh the the I I worked at the Carnegie in the 90s. I was a librarian there. So, uh, it's without it being personal for me, I said the answer was yes. And the reason it's yes is not sentimental. It's not because it's an old building, but because Tattle has the leadership that will take the uh idea of history back into this community. And I that's what I have to say. And I appreciate your support. Thank you.

Thank you.

Peg Siliano, 627 Eastwood Avenue. I am a retired professional archavist and public historian with a master's degree in American history. I am here to support Tattle's uh suggestion for sharing at the library particularly because of its impact on the Confoster collection. It has not not one item from that collection has been displayed for 10 years. it. I know the city has put effort into managing it correctly, but you really need strong professional guidance on how to do that and how to bring it back to the public. The library already has at least three employees that are fully trained public historians that the library is willing to put onto that task and it would be a golden opportunity missed by the city to give us citizens back the view of that collection. I'd also like to clarify that it is not necessary to totally inventory an entire collection before inventoried items can be put on display with proper security and proper display um environmental protections. So things could move forward in a small way without that entire collection being inventoried and I have no doubt that the library has the professional expertise to do that and I would like to see it cooperate with Cook and Treat. I have also written grants over my lifetime and I suspect that losing a bit of space in your facility, the facility that you're in right now, would not completely make it impossible for you to continue to receive grants. And I'd be willing I'm sure you have professionals that already do that, but I truly believe that it's not

direct your comments toward this group up here. Thank I truly believe that it that it and and also arts and history are not two separate things. They really intermingle with each other as liberal arts and I think that that could be a give it a month to talk about it. I think it could work very well and I appreciate your willingness to do that assuming that you vote that way. Thank you.

Thank you. Michael Matz, 309 West Front Street, number 227 Traverse City. Good evening and thank you for this opportunity to provide my public comments regarding this monumental decision for our community. My comments address the proposals as submitted in response to the RFP. Visitation to local history museums has been in declined for years. Once you've seen it, you've seen it is a common criticism of local history museums. Typically static, unchanging exhibits that do not engage the audience past one visit, if at all. The Travis City Regional History Center has a more sustainable approach. Moreover, it is highly unlikely that the planned HVAC improvements will adequately meet professional museum standards for temperature and relative humidity for the proper conservation of paper archives, photographs, and historical artifacts proposed in the library's RP submission. Additionally, natural light, a plus for exhibiting art in art classrooms, is a deteriorating parameter for history collections. In fact, it is recommended that windows be blocked for adaptive use of buildings in a history museum. Clearly, that is undesirable with respect to the character and integrity of the Carnegie building and for that matter not desirable for the addition either. Its age and international style make it potentially eligible for historic designation and would block wonderful views of Hannah Park and the river. In these times, constantly rotating exhibits that engage the visitor are critical to a museum's vitality. The current use as an art center naturally fits that criteria as shows, exhibits, and classes are regularly planned to change throughout the year, providing new enriching experiences for area residents and visitors, provide more opportunities, exposure, and potential

revenue for the area's artistic community, and for broad support network of local businesses. It is the case that unlike art exhibitions which substantially just take up wall space, ex exhibits of historical artifacts necessarily take up considerable floor space, less space for mingling, community events, and educational purposes. I believe there's sufficient reason to question whether the two buildings have the space identified in the library submission for mounting, engaging, rotating his history exhibits. Sorry, breath. relax to both install them and space to prepare the installation for archival storage to support those exhibits and hold permanent collections for archival storage of 2D materials to be transferred to the Carnegie for meeting space study spaces recording studios scanning equipment digital image tools and prof professional staff and office space all identified in their proposal to the RFP. I suggest that the visitor numbers projected by the library as being similar to other branch libraries is not tenable. It is not the same operating function. Again, Crooked Trees Arts programming by design changes shows regularly to attract and engage citizens and visitors.

Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, Margaret Smith. I live at 6195 Center Road, apartment D, Trapper City. I'm a member of the art center and I'm a member of the library and they're both very important to me, but a history exhibit I would see once while I go almost every week to a class at Crooked Tree Art Center. I have a question. The money that would be paid by the library as rent, where does that come from?

It's not a dialogue. We won't answer questions.

Okay. Well, if it comes from the money that they get from the public, aren't we just moving money around? And you would be if you gave it all to the library, you wouldn't be getting the rent from outside sources. Anyway, I feel quite disrespected by you all because you changed the criteria at the last moment to make it even. The art center means a lot to me and to a lot of people. That's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Sherry McNamera, 1526 Northwest Silver Lake Road, Trevor City. Thank you all for taking a lot of your time tonight to consider this for both parties. While I respect the city's interest in supporting the art center and the library, altering the material terms of the RFP at this stage raises serious concerns regarding fairness, transparency, compliance with established public procurement standards, which seemed obvious at your meeting tonight. The introduction of a shared use requirement specifically obligating or encouraging the selected tenant to relinquish their use of premises for one to two months annually constitutes a material change to the scope and conditions of this lease or this agreement. Both are trying to operate in good faith. I am also a member of both places. I teach at Crooked Tree. I go to all of their openings and look at their exhibits. I judge the youth art show which is highly attended. I also attend the library. I love to read and I think there's a great purpose in both things. I think trying to mesh them in one where it is disrupting the business on a daily basis of crooked tree who have in good faith tried to secure this again for their use seems like you're trying to enable the library to make everyone at least all of you perhaps feel more at ease with a decision. It's hard to make a decision that goes against anyone and I understand that. But when it comes to a daily business, Crooked Tree does have a right to succeed in that. They have worked hard at that. The library had been in the Carnegie before and they choose to love it. They chose to leave it. Understandably, they needed bigger space

and they have a beautiful library because of it. Maybe there's a way that this collection could be on display at the Dennis Museum, which seems like it might be worthwhile, or at the college, which we have college people here. Um, maybe that's a better use for learning and understanding about that kind of history. Many of the residents here are not involved in the local history like local people, myself included. It is not something that they might be as invested in. It might be something that a tourist might be interested in, but probably not regularly. The arts and at the art center have been highly attended, sometimes hundreds of people at a time in there. I am there usually twice a week. I see people all the time invested in looking at art. It does move us. I assured all of you are familiar with great paintings. Are you as familiar with a great artifact? I doubt it because that's not something that we are normally um going to be interested in unless we're really interested in history and I'm not trying to discount that.

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.

Hello, Jeff Underh Hill, 109 West 11th Street. I'm a resident. This was written prior to the change in occupancy strategy, but uh thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight regarding the leasing strategy for the Carnegie building. As you evaluate its best use, I respect respectfully urge you to prioritize a lease agreement with a private sector entity rather than a taxup supported institution like the Traverse Area District Library. My concern centers on three key principles. Fiscal responsibility, adherence to core mission, and public transparency. First, from a financial standpoint, leasing to another tax supported entity creates what can be best described as a circular transaction. When the library pays rent to the city, those dollars ultimately come from the same taxpayer. No new revenue is created. Funds are simply shifted from one public account to another. In contrast, a lease with a private business or an independently funded nonprofit introduces new dollars into the city's general fund. Second, this proposal raises concerns about mission creep. The Traverse City residents have already made a substantial investment in a 53,000 square foot main library facility. With thoughtful planning and creative use, any museum related programming could be explored within this ex existing space. Expanding to a separate building to operate a museum represents represents a significant departure from the library's core purpose. It also brings with it substantial ongoing operational cost and staffing that the residents will financially bear. Finally, this situation highlights a lack of transparency. Public trust depends on open communication. Yet, this proposal by the library system has been developed without meaningful public visibility. Recent library board agendas do not reflect discussion about operating a museum and the library's newly released

26 through 2028 strategic plan contains no reference to a museum business. For a project of this scale to be absent from these public facing documents suggest that important conversations have not occurred in a fully open and transparent setting. To maximize the value of the Carnegie building, we should seek an outcome that generates true economic benefit and maintains the highest standard of transparency. I respectfully ask that you decline the Carnegie building lease proposal to the Traverse Area District Library and instead pursue a private partner that brings new investment and transparent accountability to the community. Thank you for your service.

Thank you. My name is William Bard. We live at 22 uh 02 Chelsea Lane and Hartman Road just out of town. Uh we had three things that moved us to come here. We retired in 2000, the wife and I. We settled uh very near Higgins Lake, but Travis City had so much to offer, we decided we definitely should move. The first thing because of her age probably was the hospital here. And we did utilize that by the way. And secondly was the art center. Okay. And probably the third thing was the beautiful scenes you have here. You have the beaches, you have the water, you have the trees, you have wildlife that won't quit. We spend probably two days a week at least stopping by uh Boardman Lake to watch the waterfall come in and go. Uh our association with the Crooked Tree Arts Center has been all the time since we've been here. So I would say it's probably been probably seven years and it's been a very gratifying experience. Uh the whole community and the surrounding community uses crooked tree. You have children, you have old adults, you have all age groups in a lot of separate interests. Uh we were astounded

one day to have I would say eight-year-olds, nine year olds come in with their portable sewing machines. Okay. They had something going on in the basement, a sewing class. All right. We currently, the wife and I, who's here, Joe Carroll, uh we both took a a class there probably two weeks ago. In the meantime, she's tooken she's taken two additional classes there. Okay. So, there's a lot of uh usage by ourselves. Uh I think the community would be shorter if they had shortened time or shortened exposure to the art here. The Indian museum uh approach doesn't seem appropriate. Uh maybe a second building beside the art center, which probably nobody wants to spend the money on, but that might be something to think about. But definitely uh the art center should be looked at in in more uh a higher level of interest than it currently does. Thank you.

Thank you. Howdy. Scott my uh 630 South Union Street. Um city resident, also a library employee. Uh the Carnegie building is owned by the public. It should be open to the public as much as possible. You shouldn't ever need to pay to come inside to attend a program, a class, or event. The public should be able to use public restrooms whenever the facility is open. The city issued an RFP. Only two organizations uh applied. One of these organizations has a history of providing consistent public service without barriers to everyone in the community. Only one of those organizations lets the public use the restroom whenever the building is open. The library is a premier public service organization in our community. It has a track record of providing top-notch public service for programs for all ages and all backgrounds. It has the infrastructure and it has the people to help preserve and share our history. It is governed by a locally appointed board. Having a public organization like the library providing service in the historic building granted to this city by Andrew Carnegie for library purposes, protecting and enhancing our history and our community provides more value to our community than continuing to lease the space in perpetuity to a private organization. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, excuse me. Melissa McKenna, uh 8651 Lake Anne Road, um resident of Elmyra Township. Um and I am the assistant director for outreach and adult services for the library. And I do have something prepared. I wasn't sure I was going to give it, but I would like to respond to something else that um was said earlier, and that's what my remarks are about. Um, so I do want to tell you about the hundreds and hundreds of local history questions and inquiries that we get at the library every year. My department, my staff at the reference desk are the ones who are the people who get those questions coming in and every day we are helping citizens, local community members learn about the history of this place. But we are also a major tourist destination. And you wouldn't think that as a library, but those of us who work in a library know that's what we do when we go on vacation. Um, but I will say that those people are coming in looking to make connections with Traverse City. They chose to come visit this place because of its beauty, but also many of them because they have a family connection. They have history in this area and they want a place to go to learn about that. The library is not that place. We're not a museum right now on Woodmir Street. We are not a museum. We are not a historical society. We are a library. And so there are limits to what we are going to be able to do in a space that is set up and designed to be servicing as a library. I would also like to say that the library I've heard a lot about the library wants to do this and the library wants to do that. The library is not making a proposal because it's something that the library wants to do. The library doesn't decide to do things. The library listens and the library asks questions such as we do in

our strategic planning process and we say what do you want? And the community tells us in a variety of ways just like they tell you guys what they want in a variety of ways. And so that's really what we're responding to at this point is this request from hundreds of people on a regular basis all the time. And when we talk about not wanting to necessarily interact with physical things, I can honestly tell you that one of the most popular things at the reference desk is the assortment of antique typewriters we have behind the desk. Everyone of every age that comes up to the desk wants to talk to us about those old artifacts. They are not forgotten. They're important and even the kids know that they're important and they want to know more about them. And so that's really what we would like to do here. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening. I'm Peg Yankov, 101 West 19th Street. So the question is is what is our city Carnegie building's next chapter? The first chapter of the building was made possible by Perry Hannah's gift of land and Carneg's gift of the building. The building, including the Cornwell edition that was added in 1964, served as our city library from 1905 to 1999. The second chapter involved the building's extensive renovation work that began in 2000 until 2002. I co-chared a 20 person capital campaign committee that raised over one point one $1.4 $4 million for building renovations. Thank to so many. The third chapter was the building's reopening on June 22nd, 2002 as the Grand Traverse Heritage Center that included six history related partner organizations. The name was changed to the History Center of Traverse City in 2010, but ceased operation for several reasons in 2014. The fourth chapter has been the Cricut Arts Center for the past 10 years. I am a member of the art center and I support its mission. However, like the building's previous chapter, they are a tenant with a contract that was extended. I wish there was some way to share the building and in partnership work to enhance its educational potential. The fifth chapter that Tattle proposes includes a city museum with art and evolving history related exhibits, special collections, library, and community center. I support Tattles's proposal for three reasons. The first reason is the fact the library is growing and running out of space. Gifts are continually being made to the library, such as Perry Hannah's journal and never-beforeseen photos of Mr. Mrs. Hannah's daughter, Clarabel, and her husband, George Gardner. All materials were professionally scanned and can now be enjoyed on Tatt's website. Michelle and staff envision moving all history related materials, including the 2D collection housed in mobile cases, to the Carnegie building. Michelle has unanimous board support to look for more

space, is a proven partner with the city, serving as a voting precinct, for example, and has no debt. A huge second reason is the building would be open to the public at all times, just like our library, including the restrooms. The library's proposal will be included in the current millillage and yet to be determined city financial support for their work with the Confoster Collection. The third reason is the 3D collection project. A very very part-time person has been working on the conoster collection for the past several years. It's been 12 years since the collection has been in storage and chatt staff has this the expertise to expedite this project. They want to help professionally sort through this collection, preserve it and share the history of our area. A very successful example of Tattle's vision is Chicago's former Carnegie Library building on Michigan Avenue that is now a cultural center. I hope this public asset can be shared. Thank you.

Thank you,

Michelle Howard, 435 West 11 Street. And I'm also I'm a city resident and the library director. Um, and I just want to thank you and say that I fully support the city manager's suggestion of having a conversation given the scores that the R of the RFP were the same, both parties scoring the same. I think um in these contentious times sometimes we want to choose an en enemy, but I really truly believe that we all have more in common that we than we have um differences. And this process though non-traditional allows us that space to have those conversations to see where we can build into build maybe an idea of something that's even better than what we've come up with. So um I just want to thank you for that process and um my manager uh my HR or not HR sorry marketing manager couldn't be here tonight but she wanted me to invite you all if you want to see some of the magic of the library stop by this weekend. We have Makerfest at the civic center and it's a beautiful idea. It's a beautiful example of how we come together with over 40 partner organization to do something for the community related to STEM and um and resources and recycling. And also if science is not your thing, we also have our poets night out event on Sunday night at the Kirkbride Hall at 7 PM. And that's another partnership we partner with Michigan writers and a bunch of groups to honor our poets in our region. So, um, thank you for your service to our community and your consideration on this very important topic. And that's all I have. Thanks.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Katrina and I live at 7-Eleven East Orchard Drive in Traverse City. Gosh, my heart's really beating. Um, I've asked a lot of people how they feel about the library and the Crooked Arts Center and which one belongs in the Carnegie building. And they all answer, "Well, it was a library. It should be a library again." And so I start the argument over and I try to be more unbiased and more fair to each side. And I say, "But they've been there forever and they just want to renew their lease and we care about the arts." And the answer is always, "It was a library. It should be a library again." And so I really had to think about this because as an architect and as having some a little bit of a background in historic preservation, I couldn't understand why they just automatically thought the building should be a library again. And after giving this some thought, I think it's because we all fundamentally understand that a building and how it impacts you changes your perspective of what's in the building, right? And so when little kids come up to a building like the Carnegie building and they're going inside and they're on their first history tour and they're going to see all of these artifacts, they walk into a building like that that's so grand and civic and their experience with those artifacts is so much different than if they were going to a tucked away corner in the library. And really that's where our archives are right now. They are tucked away in a corner of the library and that's probably where they're going to remain because they've been tucked away in places like the basement for 10 plus years now. And so as much as I love the arts, my degree is in the arts. I was an art assistant for years because I love it so much and I don't think anyone ever wants to put crooked tree out in the dirt. But there are other places that an art center could be. And I would go to an art center that was in a strip mall or some back tucked away corner because people who love the arts, they seek the arts out, but we don't always seek out history and we don't always

understand the value of it. So, we need our spaces and our places to tell us how important it is. And so, I really think that the Carnegie building is just it's the more appropriate place. And I think that's the question here tonight. Not who can raise the funds and who's more deserving and what do we love more. We're not choosing between the arts and the library. We're just trying to decide, is this building more appropriate for this use or this use? And it's not personal. It's just what's more appropriate. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello, I'm Tina Soy Ring. I live at 519 Fifth Street, Traverse City, Michigan, city resident, library user, Cricut Tree Arts user. Um, I want to thank you for your thoughtful consideration tonight. There's been great discussion and I really appreciate it. Living where I do on Fifth Street, I have to say that I see so many people go in and out of Cricut Arts Center on a regular basis from toddlers, infants, teenagers, younger people, young adults, older people, and I see so many people go in and out of there. I never saw that many people go in there before. It's been a great use of the building. Um, I know people who have stopped in there to use the bathroom when the art center has been open and they weren't necessarily members. So, that could be a little bit of a fallacy. Um, I don't think it's an issue of not being willing to work together or enemies. I've heard that a couple of times tonight, which really concerns me. I think it's an issue of timing and I really like some of the comments that I heard earlier tonight. Six months for a business when they thought they were going to be staying in their same location to all of a sudden have to relocate and try to find a place to be is rather difficult. And there's a good faith component that as a city we've been putting forward in the past. Um, in my eyes, I feel like that's been eroded a bit and kind of pulled out from under crooked tree, even though they knew they had to apply and it wasn't a guarantee, but in my mind and the way it looks, especially after reading the record or the ticker today, um, it just raised some concerns. I find it very hard to believe that Kristen would not be willing to have a discussion and take

a look at how to share space if she had more time. Maybe move forward with a one-year look at the RFP. Move forward for one year allowing crooked tree to stay where they are and then take a look during that time of how you can share possibly share that property, how things could be distributed a little bit differently, but allow time for that process to work. I live in the historic district, our local historic district. I value history. I don't think that's unimportant, but there's a way to take a look at this process and make it worth work for both groups. I do agree that as valuable as history is when it comes to the teenagers and some of the younger people I see going in to crooked, they may not be as excited about that. Um, you know, when I visit historical areas around the country when I travel, it's usually my population that I see, my age group, not necessarily the younger people. I've been in Crooked Tree.

Thank you. Thank you for listening. Some last call here for public comment. So, there we go.

Hi. Um, my name is Christy Bodc. Uh my address is 5098 Stonefield Drive, Traverse City, and I'm the managing director at Cricutree Arts Center. Thank you all for having the conversation. Um I had like things written and I'm probably just going to just talk because there's a lot going through my mind. um in 20 in December 2024, I came here to um have our lease renewed and that was on the docket and uh another entity came and said we'd like to halt or kind of pause that. So, we have been working on renewing our lease essentially since December 2024. uh we got the renewal to 2025 full understanding in December of 25 that we were going to there was going to be an RFP process. Here we are and it is it is dragged out and I I respect and I I understand the um the feeling the mutual feeling that I see from this this group to have conversations. I have I have so many projects that I have had to keep pushing back because I'm working on the RFP. Now there's this now I need to work on this. I owe it to this community and I want to thank everybody who came tonight. I'm sorry I forgot I'm not supposed to address the group. I apologize

for everybody that came here to support Cricut Tree from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. This organization means the world to me and I just want to be able to put the best foot forward. I apologize for getting emotional. Started my day at 5:00 in the emergency room with my husband. So, it's been a very long day. Um, the idea of sharing a propo or proposed shared space will would require us to step back in the programming that we are doing. The programming that continues to grow. We will now have to scale that back for shared space. We are trying to meet the community's needs and demands and stepping back is not the way to go. I also want to bring up a couple other things. Um, somebody made a reference about getting grants. It's not about do we have enough will we have enough space to write a grant for. It's the fact that I can't write a grant right now because I do not know where we are going to be after October. That's that's where if you see that comment, that's where that's coming from. The other comment about the bathrooms, people can come and use the bathroom bathrooms. If you see a sign that says you cannot use the bathrooms downstairs, that is because we are protective of the children in the building. And if there is a preschool, elementary, middle, or high school class. I do not want strangers going downstairs. We get busy with other customers. If I don't know where they're at, we we don't want them hanging around the bathroom. So, we do open up our bathrooms for the public. We just when we have a young class going on.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Christie. And I appreciate that. So, any other public comment at this time, please.

Hi, I'm Angela Morris. My address is 2090 West Sheridan in Paskki. I'm not a Traverse City resident. And good evening. Thank you all for your time. I'm the executive director of Cricut Arts Center and you know we approached this process in good faith from the very beginning. Um as Christie mentioned the timeline we followed every requirement that the that was outlined in the city's RFP completing the site visit the interview the full proposal process and we invested a lot of staff time board time and volunteer time to to complete that. Um, and as we was noted, our submission received a perfect score reflecting our strong, viable, and experienced plan. At our core, I just want to reiterate, we are a community art center. We serve thousands of students and adults of all ages, supporting over 600 artists annually, and we maintain a consistent year-round operation in this building, and we have been doing that for 10 years now. We are growing at capacity, and the community demand for our programs continues to grow. So, we respect the process that was put in place, but moving the bar this late and continuing to delay a decision really negatively impacts our organization, the people we serve, the staff um and it just really puts everything at a halt. So, we really believe it's important for the commission to move forward with a vote um on the RFP. We do value collaboration and we have a strong history of partnering with other organizations through events, workshops, and shared init shared initiatives. So, we look forward to continuing those kinds of partnerships in ways that expand access and benefit the community. We're proud of the role that we play in helping the community thrive and we're excited about the opportunity to continue building on that momentum in the years ahead. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other public comment at this time? Please approach the podium as everybody has been, please.

Hi everybody. Thanks for having us. I'm Brian Eer. I work at Crooked. I live in Lake Anne. Um, the Commons was invented as a mental institution. Should it go back to being a mental institution? Um, just came up with that here. Couldn't help it. But thank you. Um, I would like to invite you all to come to our next opening, which is on May 1st, and see what crooked is all about. Um, there's five exhibits opening uh from 5:00 pm to 7 p.m. or any day after that. They will be on for the whole month of May. and just to see how we use the space and how we use every last inch of it. Thank you. Thank you. Any final public comment?

Okay. Just want to make sure and we do have the audience over there, but I think we we sent people to notify them as well. So, I just wanted to bring it back and first of all, thank everyone for your comments and your public comment and being so respectful. I know there's a lot of people with a lot of passion here tonight and um we understand that this process has been flawed and that's an admission on has come out on all this as well. Um because we are um this is public comment on a motion. I just wanted to bring it back to that the motion right now is that we would engage the city manager to talk to both parties to see if there is some kind of an agreement that could be made. It is not required to those who pointed out that the RFPs have been made and the proposals are there ultimately that those might be the proposals we are deciding between this is a a step that is the purview of the city commission as the um kind of responsible body for our city properties and and I understand that I hear the frustrations and I understand the hours that went into it and we thank everybody who is involved at Crooked Tree and at Tattle for the work you put into the initial RFPs and I wanted to thank you all for that and acknowledge just how um much I appreciate how much our community has handled this discussion tonight. And so um with that, I think Benjamin, did you want to say a couple things?

Yeah, I just wanted to uh respectfully just clarify a couple points. Um uh a speaker had mentioned that we changed the criteria at the last minute to make it even. We did not uh change the criteria. What I believe happened was uh I just didn't agree with the assessment of the library's financial like their their credit rating. The library does not have the capacity to have a traditional credit score. It would be like uh dinging someone the state of Michigan for not having insurance because they're self-insured and they have the equivalent of that. So I just want to very respectfully say the criteria was not changed in that regard. And then just I I've said this publicly before, but I wanted to reiterate for everyone. I know we're talking about a lease extension for Crooked Tree. Uh really no matter what, but I would have I would never support giving uh a nonprofit like Crooked Tree a very short period of time if the commission did decide to go in another direction. I would advocate for providing them with with a respectful off-ramp. Uh and so I just wanted to just say that and it's not meant to sway anything or discourage public comment. I just wanted to provide that context. Thank you.

Um, thank you for that. And given all the public comment time that we've had, um, Sarah, would you read the motion back that is before us? As best you can to your ability at this point. Um, I have a big note that says double check video. um that the city commission direct the city manager that the city commission directs the city manager to have conversations with both Crooked Arts Center and the Traverse Area District Library to convene conversations with Crooked Arts Center and Traverse City Area District Library to determine feasibility of a joint occupancy lease arrangement and to return to the city commission no later than May 18th with an update. Question mark. Okay, that's fine.

I believe the word was recommendation. Thank you. That worked. Okay, perfect. Okay, go ahead, Heather, please.

Yeah, I just I just have to say the line between an historical artifact and a piece of art is very thin. It's it's sometimes so thin that it is invisible. Uh history informs art just like art uh informs the future which will be somebody's history which will be somebody's art. Um art and history are natural fellows. They inspire each other. They challenge each other. I don't see that we we're dealing this is just not a binary decision we we have here. You have a very challenging uh assignment ahead of you, Ben, and uh I hope you can be inspiring.

That is my desire, my find that thin line where everybody can stand.

Any other comments from commissioners before the vote? Go ahead, Mitch. And then Ken. Yeah, I would just like to thank uh the public for being more outspoken on this issue than literally any other issue in my five years that I have served on the city commission. And uh I was the most frequent member of the public to show up to city and planning commission meetings for three years before that. So in the last eight years, nothing has reached this level of public engagement. And that really points to the fact that uh both these groups and the broader community feel passionate about the arts, about history, about uh the history of that building and uh its role in our community. Um I kind of wish that we had a little more attention. Not saying that we would have um dug up something with the $26.8 8 million uh sewer upgrades that we were earlier on the agenda today, but that is a larger chunk of change than is at stake here.

Thank you, Ken. Um I Yeah, I trying to unpack this and think about the difference between the importance of art and the importance of history. And we can't if if that is a criteria alone, we can't decide one way or another.

So I'm left with what did we decide to begin this process with? And that was an RFP where we said that we would select one. Towards the end, I was engaged about the potential interest of sharing the space and my understanding was that if both parties agreed to it, we could go forward with that. It seems that is not the case, but there is an opportunity to potentially share space and look at the historic artifacts after some lease renewal discussion has been has been had. So, I don't know that I necessarily need to push this tonight. I think we can make a decision and I think it's the right thing to do. That's my stake.

Okay. Any final thoughts from commissioners before we call the vote? Okay. And with that, I will call the vote. All in favor? I. Opposed? Nay. No. Roll call, please. Commissioner Anderson, yes. Commissioner Shaw, yes. Commissioner Treadwell, no. Mayor, Commissioner Funk, no. Commissioner Bmer, yes. Mayor Promess, yes. Mayor,

yes. Okay. Okay. So, with that that um has moved that forward and Benjamin is in in I can't talk tonight. We'll be talking to everybody and bringing us back an update and it wasn't in the motion, but I want to be clear that part of that update will be coming back to us with the update on the lease for the next next business meeting. Yes. Thank you. Okay. So, with that, we will now and thank you to everyone. Um that is where we are at. So, that is what passed. Um, we have more exciting things on our agenda if you'd like to stick around, but I do not blame you if at 10:10 at night you would like to leave. So, we are not going to officially recess, but we'll take a moment to allow you all to to leave if you don't want to hang around and talk about uh contract amendments about um irrigation. So,

yeah, it's important. I agree, Mitch. It's important. I wrote down the one quote before about FHWA. Oh, yeah. I don't even have my computer. I'm just watching everyone's actually moving. They're all moving.

We're here. I'm not going. Well, I didn't want to call official. We are past pumpkin time. Richard's pumpkin time. I have faith in the rest. I have faith in us. And it's like this big. I was ready to keep on going with the discussion. Don't ever do that that time of night, Mitch. I know.

Okay. I want to thank everybody who in the public who engaged with us and we just gave them a moment to clear for those who might be watching at home. Um so with that though, we are going to um move on to our next which is a contract agreement for um the irrigation for the center median of Grand View Parkway. Um, this has Benjamin's name, but I want to thank um Michelle Hunt and Anne Pagano for joining us up here. This is also or giving Ben a chance to get back. This is how we will be trying to do when we have um calendared and regular scheduled um items is have the um staff in question sit with us versus standing at the podium um because they are our staff and part of our team. So there I gave you enough time, Benjamin. Now if you want to kick that off.

I'm gonna turn it over to the experts Michelle Hunt and Anne Pagano if they would take it away. Thank you. Um, so for the commissioner, newer commissioners, this project, um, back whenever MDOT first approached the city on redoing the Grand View Parkway, we started the irrigation conversations back in 2021. And it was always known that the city would be responsible for replacing any irrigation that's existing or that we wanted new upon the construction of the Graanby Parkway. That was always a city responsibility. it's not something within M dot scope that they um reconstruct. So we began conversations back at that point to focus the landscaping where we had irrigation and then work on quotes. So we did it in two phases. The Grand View Parkway was in phase one and then we're talking about phase two. So in 2025 we did the phase one irrigation which is everything east of division and the irrigation was put in. The landscaping was put in and it looks great. And then we came back to the city commission in the spring of last year to continue with the planned irrigation for phase two which is everything west of division including the new roundabout. And in those conversations, the decision was made to take the scope of work and modify it so that the irrigation is rem was removed from the center medians, but we were permitted to continue with the north and south side of the road rideway and the new roundabout at the 2272 interchange. Um, and so because of that decision, MDOT removed all of the planned landscaping for that center island. So they could not commit. They did not want to commit to planting trees that were not going to be irrigated. So as the median looks today would be what

it looks like in the future because there's no irrigation to support tree planting. So there is no landscaping going in on M DOT's um contract for the center median. So it is about a 12 to 18 foot wide median varied lengths down the parkway and it's just going to be turf. It's what they call roadside seed mix. So we re-evaluated the contract when they were finished with the phase well the first phase of phase 2 irrigation and because the contract was awarded in the original amount of 398,000 which included the contingency there's money remaining. So we approached um Elmer's who holds the contract and we said if this was something that you could do what would be the cost and city staff feel that it's an opportunity if we irrigate the median then we can vegetate the median that would be something that the city would do so MDOT would not plant the trees city parks department can plant those trees it's something that we do anyway and it provides an opportunity for the central median to have trees which would match the east side of the parkway and would look really nice. Um, and so we're coming to you tonight to ask for a scope agreement to give us permission to um, I guess continue with the contract with Elmer's so that we can put the irrigation in the center island so that we can eventually put trees in.

Okay, we'll have any questions right now? Uh, Lance and then Heather. Yeah, I'm just curious if you have any um, data on potential water usage. um and what that would bump up against. I know we've had water conversations uh and we're going to have a broader regional conversation around our our water treatment. Um so is that I'm assuming it's treated water. How much water are we using? What's that look like?

So the system is all adjustable and it's um everything that we're talking was previously irrigated all up until the con the reconstruction. So this is not new irrigation. We are replacing irrigation that was removed. And um so we run there's multiple zones there's you know there could be upwards of 10 zones they can run for 20 minutes at a time every other day that can be adjusted it really also and also we have a parks department staff member who's our he is our irrigation person and he goes and adjusts them so if we're getting lots of rain he'll shut them off so we don't run it continuously no matter what the weather is. And then second question, um, timeline for planting the trees that will be in the fall. In the fall this year.

Yes. Okay. Okay. And then Heather, did you have your end? No, I have a statement, so I have to wait till Laura, please. I have a question. Has there um, so for the roundabout median? Has there been consideration given to sightelines with trees? So, as a frequent user of that roundabout, sight lines are already a little difficult. And I'm wondering about having something raised like trees and being able to see what's coming at you from the roundabout and whether or not trees are appropriate there. Should it be something lower like shrubs or flowers?

So the um that's a good question because we talked about the roundabout a lot during the landscaping design last summer or the summer before. So that um that is already in plan. it is in plan to plant and originally the plan was like smaller shrubs and then it was really MDOT who did the research and they have you know their standards where they said what trees we can put in there. So staff recommended kind of for lack of a better term we were like can we make it prettier than some of the other roundabouts around town because it's kind of our staple spot. Um and so we asked that MDOT look into um better landscaping and so we did end up go with four different trees that will go in the roundabout and they did approve those. So based on the studies that they do, they said that that was fine.

I I would have concerns about trees and sight lines there and and potential of of just cars not being able to see people coming. But that's Well, I just want to back up though because this has already been planted, has it not? Yes, I remember at one point as part this was part of the discussions of all the governmental bodies including the band Leela and and Grand Travers and the city at one point had all kind of conversations not about what they wanted to see there. Um so that doesn't apply to this one just to clarify. So and we have Laura telling us that. So Mitch, you were next. Yeah. Well, question. I'm ready to make a motion.

Okay. that the mayor and city clerk be authorized to execute an amendment to the agreement with team Elmer's installation of irrigation in the center median from division street to the roundabout at M72M22 intersection as outlined in the March 16, 2026 communication from parks and recreation superintendent such contract subject as to its substance by the city manager and to its form by the city attorney support

and just a statement. I'm a little disappointed that we couldn't have uh packaged this into one irrigation contract and one landscaping project and it all be done. And okay, there'd be still some brown this time of year, but the grass is greening up really quick after last week's rain and uh those tree buds are just about to break on the rest of the trees. So, I am glad that uh we do have this back before us and it hopefully uh we will be able to move forward and I'm really glad that there was a large enough contingency that it can still cover using the original funds.

Heather, you had had your hand up before for comment. I see you. So there is a very long and complicated story behind this agenda item and it has to do with why we have a very wide median between uh division and the and uh roundabout and a a median that required the cutting of trees along Bay Street. Um, we have a new commission. We have a new city manager. So, I am not going to rehash it, but suffice to say that that was a real low point between the commission and the staff. I will not be supporting this. The commission did vote two years ago to reject the median irrigation and suggested using rocks instead as a way to save resources and management time as well as to discourage pedestrians from hanging out on that enormous median. while jaywalking across the parkway. If the goal, as stated originally during the reconstruct, was really traffic calming, then keeping that median slim in line with with what is east of there would have done the trick and saved the trees. And it seems to me that there are many better ways, particularly after what happened last week, to spend $90,000. Uh and and that's a price that does not include plantings or the maintenance. So MD DOT's no irrigation solution is to plant roadside seed mix. If you've been driving around Michigan the last couple of years, you might have noticed that the standard roadside seed mix is now little blue stem. It's a lovely perennial grass that if left unmode reaches two to three feet high. It is beautiful during all growing seasons. It can even stand up under snow, although probably not in the median. It's a major source of food for a huge variety of northern bo birds, but not geese, and it is native to the old

prairie of Michigan. Little blue stem uh is a lovely light bronze in the fall with fluffy seed pots. It is drought tolerant and it doesn't like fertilizers. If left unm mode, it will save staff time, maintenance expense, and $90,000. It will also serve as a deterrent to jaywalkers on the Parkway. Voting no also respects the last commission's wishes and restates the importance then and now of respectful commission staff relation. Ken, Mitch, Jackie,

I'm gonna wave off of my comment and Okay, we'll move to the next one. Mitch, Mitch, then the last vote that we had was a 43 vote in support, but it's a contract that requires funding. So, that was required of five votes in the affirmative.

That is true. Thank you, Mitch. Uh Jackie, um I concur with uh Commissioner Shaw on her recollection of last year's decision that um we were cutting down trees ostensibly for safety purposes um was was rather frequently cited as I recall and now we're putting them back in um two lanes over and uh I have concerns as Commissioner Ness expressed concerning um safety, uh visibility. Um I I would certainly I wasn't aware of all of the benefits of of that particular roadside grass, but boy, it sure sounds good. And I would I would definitely be in favor of uh a solution that does not require spending $90,000 and that does not contradict the decision of our predecessors in the last uh city commission.

Just to clarify that there was a majority on the last city commission that voted for it, but not the super majority majority. Yes. So I want before we say that there was a universal statement. Ken, did you want to take your um You don't have to. I just am offering it back.

I just u I did not have the entire history of this conversation or the context and that's interesting. Very interesting. Um definitely not going to turf this to another meeting. We'll decide on it tonight, but I really I just want to tell staff and the design team, I appreciate your thoughtfulness about this for the tree planting. I I hate that we had to cut trees down during the Parkway reconstruction. It was it really it it contradicted everything that we represent when we talk about that we're a tree city and we protect trees and the links that we're going to to talk about protecting the cemetery right now from the airport. Like it it was it was really upsetting to me that the best time to plant a tree was yesterday. Second best time is today. And if we're going to plant them, we're going to water them. And this is this is the right process. Um hopefully this grass can grow underneath it as well. So,

I do want to just say the city didn't cut down any trees. MDOT did within their right of way. So, yeah, it's not us. But, yes, fair point. But trees were lost. So, fair. All right. Um, any other questions from commissioners at this time? Seeing none, um, any public comment on this item? Seeing none, I'll bring it back. All in favor? No. Opposed? No. MO roll call. Sorry, not motion. We're all tired. Yeah. Um, Commissioner Bmer, yes. Commissioner Funk, yes. Commissioner Treadwell, yes. Commissioner Shaw, no. Commissioner Anderson,

no. Mayor Prom, no. Mayor,

yes. Motion fails. Okay, so moving on to our next agenda item, we have um let there be a rotation of chairs here. the city attorney position. Um Lauren has tendered her resignation. Um we do have a little bit of time left her with her. So now we are left with the discussion. Um as city commissioners, we have three duties. We employ the city manager, we employ the city attorney, and we pass a budget. Um those are the requirements of us. And so as we are venturing into this discussion, um we have Lauren here as the current position holder as we would anybody else who's offered the resignation. We have some input from her, but we ultimately are deciding on this process ourselves. So um Lauren, I just wanted to hand it over to you to kind of go over some of the options you outlined, which are kind of what cities do, um so that we can consider them.

Sure. So uh several commissioners asked me, you know, what's next? Um and so I put together um some options for the city commission to consider. Um the first one is just to post the position. Um and uh the HR department could do that. Um and if in that case you'd want to uh review the job uh the job description and then um go ahead with that. You would want to go through uh a an interview process. Uh that would probably be at least two interviews. Um and then you'd likely be looking at somebody um having to give notice wherever they are currently at and maybe relocating. So that would be sort of a timeline um that you might be looking at for that first option. Uh the second option that has been used um for uh these two positions is to hire a third-party firm to kind of like a head hunter to look for qualified applicants and um bring them back to you. Uh and that would require the city commission to identify that third party. Um and then you would vote to hire that person. uh there'd be some time again for uh working with that person on the job description, making sure that's up to date and then uh the process would be somewhat similar um but with that third party bringing forward candidates to you. Um the third option um and this is also what many cities do have is that they um contract a firm to provide those services. Um, and that would require the city commission to put an RFP. Well, technically not. It's a professional service, but I would suggest that you put together an RFP. Um, that would require uh you to take a look at a scope of services similar to with a job description. Make sure that is uh

covering everything that you might want to see that firm handle on behalf of the city, and then put that RFP out for a certain amount of time. Um, I would suggest three weeks probably would be enough for firms to uh respond to that. And then you would want to uh probably have a rubric of some sort um to have uh the characteristics balanced and weighed. Um I would suggest choosing uh some of the top contenders to maybe come and interview for that as well. um so that you could get some facetime and understand uh if there's a good fit and then you could contract with the firm and um in all likelihood they'd be able to start right away uh because they have the resources to do that. So those are just three of the options that um that are possible and uh what would be good is for uh us to understand at the end of the meeting what the direction is that the commission would like to go in because uh we could bring you at your next meeting either a job description or a scope to look at. Um I will be here till June 30th. So I'm happy to help in whatever way you might need. I understand this is completely the city commission's uh prerogative. Um I'm a resource if you need. So uh I can help you through that. And I don't know if Ben has any thoughts. Um he works with uh the city attorney very closely. Additionally, um Becky Euing is here. Um she has a very unique perspective because she has been doing um the reviews for this position. So, she's heard a lot of the feedback and the needs from the commissioners along the way as well as department heads. Um, and that is something that I would suggest that you uh you look for the feedback from staff as well as commissioners when you're looking at a job descript description or scope to understand what

the needs for services are from those individuals because the city attorney advises staff as well as the commission um basically daily. So, um, you'd want to make sure that you're not missing something that staff might need along with that process. And Becky has spent a lot of time with staff hearing feedback in that regard. So, um, we invited her to to see if there's any way the commission might um, wish for her to assist.

So, the to really quick before the tools in our tool belts have been laid out for us. Now um one of the question I did ask because having gone through some of these hiring processes now over the years is you know these are options these are the models that people use um we realistically are looking at two monthsish month and well month and a half sorry I forgot what day it was today um before we don't have a city attorney and we have a very heavy load for our city attorneys. So, one question I did ask is if we were to look at an RFP process, could would it be feasible? Would it would it firms take or be interested in taking like a year-long contract? We gave ourselves time to um keep the business of the city moving. Also, then evaluate how that process was going since we've never tried that. Well, we haven't tried that model in a very long time. um in a few months after that and then be ready to either move on to hire somebody new at the end of that term, look at hiring firms. And so I'm kind of offering that out there as a potential gap filler because all of these processes, maybe we could have a law firm ready to go maybe for if we were permanently doing it, but we'd all have to have decided mutually what our long-term thoughts are and our RFP process would look like an individual, we'd be looking at months before we'd bring somebody in. So, I had a concern about that timeline. And so, that is something that's available to us as well is kind of a temporary fix with the idea that we'd have a longer process to gear up for it after um kind of taking care of our immediate needs. Lance, go ahead. And then, Jackie.

Yeah, I think I'm generally in favor of um engaging like a third party human resources uh company that could come in and interview your directors, uh Ben, and interview you and kind of get an understanding of what what everybody needs. uh and then you know work with uh Becky and make sure that uh the commission's voice is heard in that sense too. Um but I was concerned uh because I think that's the way to do it. That's how you find the some really high quality candidates because they'll go engage a national search that none of us are going to do. Um and I would hope that if we did that, this is just my opinion that that firm is local. So they have skin in the teeth or skin in the

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's late.

It's late. um skin in the game. Uh but my concern is what's the stop gap because uh I sit on a different board that's not cityappointed and we've been trying to hire an executive director for the past n year and a half. Um and so it is not a fast process. Um but then again, does it have to be an RFP where it's going to take us a whole bunch of debates and meetings and or or is there something Benjamin, this is more of a question and maybe even Lauren to you guys. Um, is there a threshold? Is there are there firms that you already work with that we could fill as a stop gap um in the meantime that you could even bring to us and say, "Hey, this could we could do a three or four month uh contract with this firm um without having to do a whole RFP?" I don't know. It's just just thoughts

as these are positions. I'll have Lauren answer that. And I just want actually really quick. I just want to be clear. The reason why Becky here is here is more of if we are formulating an RFP for information. did not the the intention was not to have her lead any kind of a search or anything like that. It was just more the perspective. But go ahead.

Um I think the answer is yes and and um I did just uh go through an RFP process for um tax and labor council which we already outsource. Um and so um and we did have very good qualified um responses to that. So, we do have at the moment um uh some qualified firms that have responded for those services. Um and I would uh I would be comfortable with any of them. Actually, I've said to the city manager, we can't go wrong with any of them. They're all excellent. Um and so if the commission wanted to simply uh go from there, I think that's possible. we would need to reach out to those and say, "Hey, you know, would you like the whole enchilada?" There are others as well that I know um in the state of Michigan. So, if this the city commission is permitted under the purchasing policy for professional services to forego RFPs if you wish to do so. Um and so I think the the short answer to your question, Lance, is yes. Okay,

you could do that. And that's a really good suggestion as well, Lance. Um so, thank you for that. Uh Jackie, you had your hand up and then Laura and then Mitch. Yes. Thank you. Um, do I understand correctly that Grand Traverse County uses a a law firm on retainer and then, you know, call from call on from their staff various specialized skill sets and individuals who can advise them on on a wide range of of legal topics. Um, is that the model that they use? I don't know exactly what they what their um retainer agreement says, but they do have an outside contract for um for civil counsel.

Okay. And and then do I remember that certain of our current contracts for services are for for instance a five-year period but released one year at a time so that there is an an a potential exit point every year even if the the retainer agreement was for a longer term. Is that an option?

And some agreements do provide for a termination. I mean they all do. So like there there's there's some arrangements where it's every year it's sort of up for a renewal. Uh but there's also a provision to terminate sooner if that was a desire. And I think you'd want to retain that option of course should you desire to exercise it.

My my general preference is um that of retaining a firm as opposed to hiring an individual. I think in this transitory period that we're in, it's a great way of um getting acquainted. It's also a very good way of retaining a lot of flexibility in terms of our access to a variety of legal services and um you know establishing a a professional relationship. Um I would like more details about how that looks

in real life. you know, do you have one one key client contact legal representative and then they are the ones who farm out the various needs to the to the best qualified folks on their firm and um I wonder also if we retain a firm rather than an individual, what does that mean in terms of them being our employee? you know, how how how do you evaluate the performance of of a firm on retainer as opposed to an individual? So those are those are some questions that I had

and and that and I appreciate that because that is definitely um part of the conversation where even if let's say we did mutually decide that we want to go with a firm at least for a stop gap or maybe longer um but not a full RFP process, we can still send Lauren and um you know Becky or others to kind of formulate a little bit of like here's the questions you want to ask or here's the questions we're asking of you at the May 4th meeting. how do you want this handled so that we can be a little bit more clear instead of just saying hey do you want to come work for us we could kind of hammer out that you get so many hours on retainer that you know commissioners can ask questions during and these services and I've been informed that oil and gas we will still always have to be independent because there's only like two in the state but other than that you know what what would that look like for us so we can still refine that a little bit and if we whatever decision we move forward with tonight we can still refine it a bit at the next meeting without delaying a lot of time um so those are really good questions Thank you.

And one question you had, Commissioner Anderson, uh you would have to the city commission has to appoint an individual to be the city attorney. So if you retained a firm, you're retaining the firm, but there is one person under the charter that has to be made from that firm. Right. Thank you. And that is how um how tax and labor council are currently structured. We retain a firm with a specific attorney to be the lead point person for that. Great.

Thank you. Laura was next and Heather in your hand. it's late so I had to increase the size of my font on my computer so because my glasses weren't quite doing it but um so this is a really critical important uh decision that the commission is going to make and it is our job by city charter and I don't necessarily think it's about right or wrong it's what best fits our needs at this time so I come from a healthc care background and I think of an in-house attorney like a trusted primary care physician someone who knows the organation They're accessible daytoday. They manage most issues really, really well. And at the same time, just like a great PCP, um, in-house counsel can face burnout from competing demands and really long hours. And there's times when you need a specialist, whether it's complex litigation, labor law, or specialized areas like um, we just noted oil and gas. And perhaps that's where a firm or outside council comes into play. I think it's fair in my few short months as a city commissioner to say that our acuity level has increased complexity in terms of u the issues that we face. Our legal needs have become more complex and that likely means means that we need a more consistent approach and a a deeper bench if you will. And so we also have to consider timing and and Lauren's transition and with her departure on June 30th, I'm not I don't feel like we have the time to find a search firm, recruit, hire, on board, have that candidate, give notice, bring them in. So I really like the idea of a stop gap or a kind of a a shorter term contract with a firm to give us a chance to have that coverage. It also might give us um a chance to date before we marry with a

firm um and then determine whether or not that's a model that we like and whether or not it fits. So, I'm I'm in favor of um for the near term potentially engaging with a firm, whether that's through an RFP or I like kind of this hybrid approach of maybe we take some recommendations from our current uh city attorney while we evaluate what model is going to work best for the city and the city commission. Thank you, Heather. I I agree with everything. All right.

I you know, we're a we're we are a small town. We need somebody sitting in the chair who's gonna, you know, to stop by the office to solve our problems, to speak to our doctor. We need that. Um, we also need somebody with local knowledge. We we saw we have witnessed the pitfalls of hiring somebody with no local knowledge or even the knowledge of a m municipality of of our size. Um but it's going to take time.

The only problem that I foresee I can um with the stop gap is um if it's what do we do about an issue like historic districts? How are they ever going to understand that unless it's a local law firm? Well, I I know that we like to think of ourselves as very unique and and we are we are special and we do live in the best place in the world and it is special and I say I'm not being sarcastic. I really I really mean that

municipal attorneys um see things like this regularly. So it it's their job to understand each municipality in its unique and special circumstance. So I do believe that um that a firm would you know another municipal attorney will be able to get up to speed on these things. I I do believe that I do I will also I am very committed to the commission to the city to the staff. I will make sure that the transition is as smooth as it humanly can be. So all of the things that are going on that somebody needs to get brought up to speed on, that will happen. Um so I I don't I I don't want to leave the city in the lurch. That's not um that's not what's happening. I I'll do what's what needs to be done to make sure that the that everything gets handed off appropriately. But I do think that, you know, it's complex issues, but attorneys, that's their job to to get in there to understand it, to immerse themselves in those issues. So, I I do believe that that is that's what will happen.

So, really, I'm really Yeah. really quick. I think what I'd actually like to do given the hour, I'm kind of having a Richard Lewis moment here of we're going to move this along. I want to poll everybody here of and kind of like we did with the DDA meeting, quick answers. um firm for a stop gap and have that brought back to us. Uh would you prefer it be somebody we're already working with or a quick RFP? Those are the things I want from you. So firm yes or no one we're already working with or RFP and then whatever we decide we can have brought back to us with two options of end of the year or something like that or a year or some kind of t term period so that we can evaluate and then decide if we want to go back to a city single attorney or keep a firm and that would like uh was said we can try before we buy a little bit too. So we'll start with you Lance please. Yeah. Uh definitely a stop gap uh RFP if we could do if it's quick. Um with also bring up some recommendations. Um and at the same time I would like uh I would like to see our city manager engage um some potential uh I don't know the word we used in here um head hunters uh to put it lightly but I I would like I think they can happen at the same time. that I'm going to say that that is our responsibility for us not to direct the city manager to do. So if we want to do that, we could have that as part of the conversation of that is that the will of everybody at the next business meeting as well. Do we want that? Do we want to wait a couple months and hire the head or we can add that to that conversation then? So thank you for that note.

Talking right now stop gap firm basically and is it an RFP or we think we're going to get better results from an RFP. Okay. So firm RFP. Great. firm RFP. I feel like I don't have enough information about the capacity either locally or how big a scope we would have to go to find uh so an RFP. Okay. Yeah. I mean, we have multiple attorneys with Mun. I don't want us to at all assume that the attorneys here are just waiting for us to dump our case load on them. I want to make that very clear. Maybe they are and they will answer an RFP or get in touch with us. But go ahead.

Firm RFP. And I would suggest um at least a two-year period for for that RFP. Um so long hoping hoping to attract more interest. Great. Good point. Um the quick the quick stop gap with the firm RFP process. Um, I hope that we will eventually look long term to possibly fulfilling that with an in-person consultant or with an in-person attorney, but I I think I don't think two years, but I think 18 months because if we fill this quick stop gap that gets us to when Lauren or Laura leaves, Lauren leaves.

I know. That's my my eyelids are spasming because I've been listen focusing so intently. But that takes us to um winter time, which is hopefully a less rigorous time as far as things that are on our plate because it seems like spring right into July is budget time and the things that we've kicked down the road as well. And then we want to enjoy summer so that winter is the time where I think 18 months puts us in that like appropriate it's a little bit lighter load that time of year. So 18 months is what I was thinking.

Okay. So what I'm hearing as consensus is um longer period may anywhere from 18 months to two years um whatever that might look like as initial RFP uh or sorry for an and an RFP from a firm to get us through and get us on solid ground. I'm going to Lauren's our expert in house. Um kind of have her think about what that um the questions that go along with that charge are that attorneys would in general. We will give input at the May 4th meeting as well ourselves. This is not Lauren making the decision. It's her using her expertise to kind of create help us create this. It will be ours just like we have with any staff thing that gets brought to us to put our requirements and what we're looking for in that. So does that sound acceptable to everybody?

Yes. Oh, go ahead, Jack. just a suggestion. Can we get a head start on the rubric for evaluating what comes in on those RFPs? Yeah, that's something that we talked about already a little bit um in that question because Amy and and Laura and I talked about it for a minute and um what I would suggest is to bring to you at on May 4th a draft RFP, a draft rubric and then in between now and then I would sort of pull the staff to understand if there's anything um that they specifically would also like to see as far as services. Sounds great. So yeah,

fantastic. All right. So, we've got the direction out there. It is late. This is not an agenda item or a motion, but I'm going to be generous if anybody wants to take advantage of it. Does anybody have any public comment on this item specifically?

Uh, sorry. Grant Parsons 895 Washington Street. You're not taking notes. I should be talking over here. Anyway, uh, look, I appreciate the discussion you're having. I appreciate I thought that Carnegie discussion was fabulous. Uh, maybe you've thought of what I'm going to say already, but I'm I've thought about this. I've talked to a couple of people. I'm not in the running. I'm retired, by the way. And I think Fred Bimber is, too. So, we're not This isn't any hat I throw in is not mine. But you live in a attorneyrich environment. We have more attorneys than bicycles in this town. We got more retired judges or wannabe judges. and you have a very experienced city attorney. I think you ought to call on some of the expertise. Maybe you've already got the rubric done and and finished. I called Phil Rogers, one of the great uh judges that we ever had. And I asked him if he would consult or sit on a panel when you're when you're when you're uh interviewing people or making the rubric. He said he would. I can give you his if anybody wants I can give you his number privately so it doesn't show up on wherever this broadcast is going. Tom Power is another one. Pete Doran I don't know Pete's still alive or around here but he's a former city attorney. But you I I I would I would start out with a presumption that you want to save the money. I I appreciate the head hunter uh fix in society uh because I've gone through enough board replacements to understand that's how it's done. But I'd save the money, use some of that local expertise from the 8 million lawyers you have in this town. And the questions are very specific ex ethics expertise uh specialty in municipal law uh availability. And I do think given the

land use issues that come up here again and again and again that some local knowledge is really going to be helpful. And I would tell you with the salary package you have, you are not going to anybody with hat in hand. You are at market rates and that pension and the things that go with a job. You you you can uh you can do what you want to do. Hold out for the best because you're you're you're in the running. And it's not just the half of the bay is the pay. It's or the bay isn't half of the pay. You are you are right in the running as you say for a beautiful place, beautiful beautiful everything. Thank you very much. I would really suggest if you if you pick me up on calling Phil Rogers, you know, Phil, he's going to have an opinion and he might really be a help. He's a former mayor of city uh mayor of Traverse City, long-term judge. Give it a ride. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other public comment on this item? Okay. So, bring it back. Um, in the meantime, since we have the directive to staff, if Phil Rogers or anybody wants to email us about the short-term um, rubric, we'd love to hear from that, too. Um, but in the meantime, we'll have staff bring this back to us on May 4th and we'll get moving with some kind of an interim short-term conversation that will continue in the next couple of weeks. So, I thank you all for that. So, moving on, we still have a couple of appointments here. So, let's move to the uh election commission. And this was uh Lance uh Heather and Mitch. Any comments or want to make a motion? Oh, Heather.

I recommend that Pamela Deurl be appointed to the term expiring December 11th, 2028 on the election commission as recommended by the ad hoc committee consisting of Commissioner Bulmer, Commissioner Shaw, and Commissioner Treadwell. Support. De Murl is great. She's great. She's been on other boards. Um, any public comment on this item? Seeing none, I'll bring it back to commission. All in favor? I opposed. Thank you for the ad hoc for doing that great work. Uh, next one. Historic districts commission. This is uh Jackie and Ken and Mitch. Yes.

Yes. Uh we recommend that Martha Mloud be appointed to the term expiring June 30th, 2029 on the historic districts commission as recommended by the ad hoc committee consisting of Commissioner Anderson, Commissioner Funk, and Commissioner Treadwell. Of course, I was listening in our meeting earlier. Okay. Well, thank you for that and thank you to um Martha for being willing to step forward again on that role. So, Marty or Marty, sorry, that's right. I have interviewed her before. That's right. Um, any public comment on this item? Seeing none, I'll bring it back. All in favor?

I opposed. Motion passes. And my fingers aren't even moving fast enough right now. Um, okay. Human Rights Commission. Uh, this was myself and Lance and Mitch. Out of hand to call all three. Yes. Yeah, that's right. The look of the draw early on, huh? I'd like to make a motion that Laura Miller be reappointed to the term expiring June 30, 2029. Elliot Ratner for appointment to a term expiring June 30, 2028, previously held by Leia Moscowitz and Ana Nison for appointment to a term June 30, 2029 previously held by Merrick Roman on the human rights commission as recommended by the ad hoc committee consisting of Mayor Shamro, Commissioner Bulmer, and Commissioner Treadwell.

We want to thank everybody for the previous support. Oh yeah, sorry. And that we'll give Ken that and uh thank you. We want to pre thank everybody for their previous service. Um any public comment on this item? Seeing none, I'll bring it back. All in favor? I opposed. Motion passes. And lastly, we have our quick um this one's a little bit more of a discussion, so we won't run through this as quickly. Um but we are have changed our rules. So, we have a city commission appointment on parks and wreck. Um I know that commissioner um Shaw has expressed an interest in this. Um do we have any other discussion on that or does somebody want to make a motion? Well, I I know as someone who sat on the the um parks and wreck ad hoc that there was interest from Mitchell.

Okay. And one of the discussions that we had was there is not enough continuity between the conversations that are having at the parks commission or is it the committee or commission? Parks parks and reccks commission and the city commission. And we felt that with the amount of interest in in parks in general in the community and the support that they gather that it would deserve some commissioner representation on that board. Yep. And we certain Yeah. Laura, do you want to speak to this at all because you were on that ad hoc with

Yeah. I mean, I I think the idea originated in that ad hoc interview process and um parks are extremely visible in our community. we saw tonight several parks related um issues that came forward and I think that the the um connection and communication between city commission and parks and rec commission has never been more important. So I I think that is really important and I um I would feel very comfortable with Heather Shaw serving in that role. I think she's expressed an interest and she has been very engaged in parks and wreck issues. Um last year when they were talking about the master plan and how that was going to be developed, she attended several meetings and um I was impressed with her knowledge and willingness to just jump right in. So I'd like to make a motion to uh nominate Heather Shaw.

Support. Thank you. um was that to be appointed the parks and representative uh beginning in an exeicio non- voting capacity and will transition to a full voting membership on September 1st6 term expiring September 1, 2029. Thank you, Mayor Shamro. Thank you. Um and sorry, who was the second on that? That was me.

That was Jackie. Okay. Um and in as the motion was made in that note, I know that um parks and recck used to have a representation on the arts commission and then that was whittleled down. So, I know that that is a hat that Commissioner Shaw already wears as well. So, um that that's what we'll do. Um any further comment from the commission on that. Any public comment on this of our one member of the public? Um okay. Uh we'll take a vote. All in favor? Opposed? No. Roll call. Um Commissioner Anderson, yes. Commissioner Shaw, yes. Uh Commissioner Treadwell, no. Uh, Commissioner Funk, yes. Commissioner Bulmer, yes. Mayor Prom,

yes. Mayor, yes. Get Okay, so motion passes. Thank you for that and thank you everyone for working on the rule change for that and that we have that better continuity. Okay, last here. Um, any reports from anybody's boards? Marorrow is planning commission. Thank you. They're they're um the car wash. The car wash is coming back. We have the results of the traffic study that was requested. Okay. Well, thank you for that. Um lastly, any final public comment? And I believe we do have one very special one. And

true. Well, we'll give as much time as he wants to since he waited through this whole meeting. He's spent 35 years waiting for this moment. 36 year commission. 36. Yeah, I've got a 20-minute prepared statement. You deserve it.

Actually, just two things. One, really quick. Uh big hand to Lauren. I uh can't express uh how uh supported and uh calm and good to go that the firefighters are that have to get involved on occasion with the legal system just by the nature of what we do as emergency professionals particularly in a emergency emergency medical field. uh they're going on a call, two years later, they get a subpoena and they get deposed. And without fail, Lauren has always made time to uh take my calls, uh see my memos. Sometimes it's, "Hey, Lauren, you got a minute? I need a ruling." And she always makes time. But uh um and I've participated in some of the reviews from time to time over the years, and uh I wrote on a couple of them. She looks like a sweet Sunday school teacher. But in in the courtroom, in her venue, don't mess with her. She's very very tough and very very committed. And uh I'm certainly going to miss you and thank you for all your support. Yeah, you're welcome. Uh also too, um I did a little bit of quick math for those that might be interested. And uh so over the about 17 uh plus years I've been chief and with eight and a half years on the city planning commission, I figured I've got about 478 meetings in this room which comes out to almost a thousand hours which is about four months sitting here in these chairs. And um I feel based on my experience um sitting over here on the side or up on the um up on a dis up there that um the city commission and the planning commission too, but the city commission

in particular is heading to a really good place. Uh different place. Uh there have always been um challenges and there's always been time for good conversation, but especially with tonight and I got my money's worth out of this meeting for sure tonight. But with all the public comment, everybody's interested in uh being respectful and in a discourse back and forth. You're always supporting each other. Even if you don't agree with each other, you're still supporting each other. And that's so important for this public body uh to keep up uh that support and keep up that pace and that momentum because things are always going to come at you. And you know, we have a very engaged community here. I'm sure you can tell by tonight and with other issues. And with that comes a responsibility of of uh you know gritting your teeth and getting through it because there's always important issues that are coming at you and not a lot of them can wait really really long because there's a lot of eyes watching. There's a lot of staff watching. There's a lot of the employees watching on what's going on. And uh I think that you're you're on pace to do really good things coming at you. And and truthfully, all kidding aside, I'm going to miss seeing this. Uh these are the things I'm going to miss. Um one of the many. And uh I just want to say that uh having had a small part of it over the years, I wanted to thank you for the opportunity and uh looking forward to the next chapter. But uh thank you for having the faith in me, for the faith in the department. The projects we've brought here, I like to say, stand on their own two feet. Um, you know, the the time and the effort that it takes to bring projects here is worth it. Um, it's not personal, but sometimes it's hard hard to separate out the heart and

the compassion for what you believe in. And uh, and uh, so, you know, just understand that when other projects are brought as well. It's not personal, but they care and that's why they're here. And I know that's why you're here, too, as well. All right. I'm kind of talking to the choir here, but uh thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. We we've suspended the rule, so let's just do that.

Thank you, Chief, so much. Is there any other public comment and getting a wave off here? Um I actually want to I don't want to go on too long because Chief expressed it so well, but I did want to take a moment tonight to thank everybody on the commission. We've had some long meetings recently. We've done really good work, though. So, I think the RFPs we've put together in the last few weeks, the conversations we've had, and it's just I really appreciate everybody up here for how sincerely and um honestly you engage with each other and we all engage with each other and the way we elevate our conversations. So, thank you all. I really do appreciate and I'm I'm very h lucky to serve with you all. So, thank you. With that, we will adjourn for the night. I I'm not going to get a MIS night on Duolingo yet. So,

I'm working on my