City Council - Regular Meeting

This is the Dunellan City Council Special City Council Budget Workshop meeting held on August 31st, 2026. Start time is 4.07 p.m. Can we have the call to order, or that's it? Pledge of Allegiance, please.

and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

If anyone in the audience would like to say a prayer or comment. Thank you so much. Proof of publication, Madam Clerk? Roll call.

Roll call, Madam Clerk. Thank you. Vice Mayor Hampshire? Here. Councilman Inskeep? Here. Councilman Lehman? Here. Mayor Green is running in works manager? Here. Michelle Leonard, assistant clerk? Here. We do not have the city attorney present for this budget workshop. And the agenda for this meeting was posted on the city's website, the City Hall Bulletin Board, on Monday, August 24, 2026. It was amended on Monday, August 31, to add backup.

Thank you. All right. Ms. Shawna, we're going to do the proposed budgets? Yes. OK. We're ready for your presentation.

So what are you having me open up first?

Oh, the Excel that I saved. Excel. Okay. Basically, at this point, I have updated all the revenues. The only thing that – the only estimates that I have not received yet are for the gas taxes. Those – I used the payments that we received for July, which is the state's beginning of their year, and that is where I established the gas taxes for this year. I've updated all the expenditures. I do have a few left to tweak a little bit. Mandy, if you go down towards the reserves for council, you usually have a contingency reserved. You can see I put $10,000 in there. If you go down to 541, please, which is Rhodes Department. Okay, you'll see reserves. There are $495,380 there. That is... the road projects that are anticipated for next year, basically setting them aside this year so we have the money to start October 1st. 2026.

It'd be... 27.

Oh, okay. Sorry, sorry. Okay. Yeah. 26, 27.

No. No, 27. Okay. Oh, okay.

This year that we're coming into 20...

26-27. 26-27 is CRA money. Okay, that's what I was just making sure. So this is the money that's going to pay for 27-28. 7-28.

Okay, so 27, October 27.

Correct. Okay, Mandy, if you scroll down a little bit further. Okay, the... under Fund 130, which is CRA, you'll see capital under 541. That is $225,080. That is the money for this year for CRA road improvements. And if you scroll down just a little bit further, Mandy, we have We still have a surplus of $206,872 in general fund and a surplus of $156,840 in CRA. One thing that I'm still working on is getting updated reserve amounts. The reason why I'm bringing this up, uh, we have discussed, um, combining the road reserves. Uh, there's multiple reasons for that. Number one, they're all, all of them have to be used for capital or as one of them is established infrastructure. Um, So they're all basically utilized for the same thing. But by combining them into one, when you have a higher balance, you actually get a higher interest rate a lot of times. So that money would be set aside every year to go towards the road projects in the future also.

Question? Yes, ma'am. If we combine – so those reserves anyway can just be used right now just for roads. We can't take them out and use them for pickleball courts.

Correct.

Okay. So it doesn't matter that we're combining them all. We can't use them except for – roads anyway.

Correct. Yeah, we're talking the money that we received from Fifth Sense, Sixth Sense, the 1%, which are very strictly earmarked specifically for road improvements. There was one that was established a couple of years ago, there again for capital improvements for roads. A few years ago, we had one for infrastructure, which You know, the only infrastructure the city has at this point is roads because we don't have any utilities. Okay. So there's about six of them that I would like to combine.

So just a real quick question. I'm sorry. You're fine. So the infrastructure one that you said that we've had for a few years now. Okay. Infrastructure is not buildings. Correct. Sorry. I had a moment.

Correct. Okay. The other recommendation, the reason why I wanted to point out the surplus on the difference between the revenues and expenditures, it's funny that you mentioned buildings and things. reserve that is used for capital replacement only you can use that for vehicles you can use it for replacing capital items throughout the city. There's a lot of things. I know it was mentioned about the firehouse roof needs repaired. It's a matter of time until we need roof replaced on City Hall. Even Public Works has had some issues with their building over there. Right now, there's a little over $114,000 in that reserve, and I would suggest that we start putting some money aside for the capital replacement of things like the roofs that are aging out. Correct. Correct. Does anyone have any questions? Tim?

No, I've been reading this thing for a long time.

Well, yeah.

Rex, do you have any questions?

I'm just going to ask a couple of things. The gas tax, is that paid monthly or yearly? Or the gas tax we get back?

Yes. We do receive that monthly. And basically what has happened in the past is every month that we receive the payment, it goes into the gas tax reserve. Okay. And at the end of the year, then she would take the... expenses for the roads out of the gas taxes. Instead of doing a journal entry every month, actually multiple journal entries every month, I was going to look at it on an annual basis and move them at the end of the year.

okay and um i've been asking about money for parks but it's my understanding that since we have the penny for the penny sales tax the penny for parks program that may be coming in that uh it would be better than to leave the money available in a just in a reserve until we decide how that goes in and what we're going to allocate for the parks is that correct um i am not real familiar with the penny for parks Oh, okay. It's an amendment that they're, it's a, what, a ballot issue. It's a ballot.

Yes.

That they're going to be putting on the, for, it's $140 million, right?

Sounds right.

Yeah. So.

Yeah, I've been very, watching the ad valorem very closely, actually. Yeah, I know. but I could read up on that and see exactly how it can be utilized and things like that.

Okay, and the last question is, with what we've got this year, we're looking at then at the end of the year, putting our tax rate back to what it was last year, right? Or have we met enough, do we have enough income to do that?

Where we're at right now, go ahead. Right now, the millage rate for this current year is 4.685, and we've discussed keeping it at 4.685. Okay. Especially with, you know, we have the electrical that we're getting ready to have done over at Ernie Mills. Like I mentioned, as far as capital replacement, I think that we do need to focus on that around the city as well before it costs us a lot more money in the long term.

Okay. And to bring that subject up, we of course heard this afternoon, or this morning, I don't remember when, that we did not receive the grant for the yours right but i know we have that already in our budget so it's so we're going to be good without having to find the money to replace it correct correct what's in the budget is the exact number that the quote is from okay yeah that's what i was just yeah so it's like a 62 or 63 000 line item if we would have gotten a grant yeah it would have been zeroed out or whatever yeah this place would

what was the grant for the grant was uh to help pay for you know how we just went through the comp plans right okay so the next step is ldrs and zoning right it was to help pay for that okay the grant got turned down but we already have in the budget the eda's code was covered yes okay that's it okay all right thank you all so do we feel comfortable that we're going to have enough funds for like any extra meetings or all those kind of good things Yes.

Okay. Just verifying. Thank you. And the gavel is handed off to our mayor.

Now, I will give you my position at this point. Now, the budget still has a – there's still a few items in the budget that are going back and forth. Got to get updated before we're going to understand what we can do with the millage rate.

Yeah.

Okay. Right now, we're showing a $209,000 surplus. Right. Okay. The park stuff, that's CRA money. That money's already there, so that surplus has nothing to do with that. Right. The capital projects, that money will come out of a capital reserve that we already have. Okay, the money that, at least my understanding is, we have two years, we have 24, 25, 25, 26, the year we're in right now. that we know we have whatever the number is for surplus for 24-25. We're looking at right now going through third quarter results, a fairly good surplus for the budget year we're in right now. We have a resolution out there that says any surplus at the end of the year is supposed to go into this new road reserve that was created a couple years ago. What Sean is referring to is taking some of that surplus money instead of all of it going to the road reserve, putting some of that in the capital infrastructure reserve to pay for things like roofs and all that kind of thing.

My position is going to be... Tim, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Capital replacement, not capital infrastructure. I just gave her a nearby. Sorry about that. No, no, thanks.

Thanks for correcting me. So with that said, the five-year road plan, we showed this year here that we will be fully funded every year based on existing millage rate and all that. And this year here, as you see, we're showing a surplus of so far 206. My position is going to be, however this all falls out, when all the final changes are made in the proposed budget, whatever the surplus is, we adjust the millage rate by removing that surplus. My opinion is we do not need that surplus. We have never had a year yet where we haven't had it. too much surplus in my mind. You've got to remember, we're taking money from the taxpayers to be spent on specific items. And when you go through the profit-loss statement that Sean was kind enough to develop this year, you can see exactly where the profits, where the surplus comes from. What I've discovered, actually I knew this a few years ago, just finally able to come up with and we've got the budget cleaned up enough that we can actually go after this. What's happened in the past years is we have taken money from taxpayers over and over and over again for the same thing. We have one line item. I'll have to go back and find out where I think the line item was. Shoot.

It was a comprehensive plan, I believe.

No, it was where we've taken money for the same project in the last five years. The DEP project?

Yes. Right, yep, DEP project. It was actually considered a grant that we reimbursed DEP for half of their expenses. But we've been taking our half.

So this thing has been on, because of the state, nothing to do with the city, this thing has gotten put on hold. We've paid a little bit. Some years we've paid nothing. Some years we've paid $10,000, $18,000, not much. But we keep taking that grant money, our half of the grant money from the taxpayers year after year. For a line item, I think, again, I should have been more prepared with this. For a line item that I'm going to say is...

Wasn't it like $66,000?

Something like that. We've taken over $400,000 from the taxpayers for that same line. So what Sean has done now is create a roll-forward account, okay, so that we don't keep taking the same money for the same stuff that we don't do from the taxpayers over and over again. The... But we'd have to get guidance from Andy or the attorney on this resolution that we created for the road program because, like Shawna said, we need to beef up that capital account. But we don't need to take extra money this year and serve us to beef that up. We have the surplus from 24-25. We have the surplus that we're going to have this year. And we have the road, five-year road plan fully funded. So I believe we're going to be able to lower the mill rate. It's not going to be rollback. Okay, you know, so it's not going to be where, you know, you write the same check the taxpayers have done, Alan. You know, it's not going to be where they write the same amount that they wrote last year like we've done the first two years, and then last year we actually lowered what they wrote. But we will be able to lower that millage rate, still pay all of our bills, and all that. But there's still a little bit of work to be done on the budget before we're going to know exactly what we have for surplus. Correct.

I mean, I think it's great that we're, you know, and of course I'd love to write less checks than I do now, but I just want us to be very cautious with we still don't know what the referendum is going to be for the taxes, if we're going to have the homestead loss or not, and I just want us to be cautious. Weary of the wolf behind the door. That's so, I'll just, I mean, that's my thought. And that's what a lot of people that I've talked to about have been saying to me as well. It's like, what is this going to do? So, just as long as we're not too budget... So, I mean, with wise forethought of the what if. And again, we don't know, but I would agree with you.

Right. We don't know how the vote is going to go, but we have already done the analyzation.

Right.

Okay, on what the impact is going to be. And the bottom line to all that, I thought I presented it before, but regardless. The impact of all that, we know what the dollar amount's going to be based on $25, okay? So it'll be, you know, just be exponential. Relative, I should say. And we have that factored in. We have it factored in to the five-year road program, and we have it factored in as far as the losses to the city. And where this city is in good shape, With that is is the investments that we have what we that will pay that will actually More than pay for even when we get to the 250k mark if it goes through You know now the key there is Kind of like retire and you know you build up your investments and then at some point as you get older You got to start drawing the interest off of those investments Okay, well based on this Amendment 3, that's what we'll be doing. So the crucial thing is that we don't deplete our reserves and then lose that income.

And all I know is that house values have come down and aren't going up, and that's just another reflection that will be on our tax bills as well.

so except the ad valorem is not showing it for this year yeah this year yeah but lauren's showing like an eight percent hit um i'm just telling you yeah i know i know i know but it's just but it's three per uh okay this is on the proposed tax bill right no no no no what i'm saying is our ad valorem taxes that the county has said or the state whoever said it it is from the proposed taxes that's where i get the values right but i can't remember the numbers eight percent eighteen percent where it's more our tax value on our properties have gone up. I'm hearing what you're saying, Valerie. I'm watching the market, and I don't see that. My sales. However, our government is getting, you know, they've already done it. They've already sent her the numbers, and our assessed values have gone up. Yeah, I'm not sure. Now, maybe it runs a year behind. I'm not sure.

And that could be a very good point, because it's this year that I'm talking about. The values have gone down on people stroking checks for houses.

Yeah, they actually send out the values, I believe it was right around June or July, and they tweak it a little bit throughout budget season.

Just food for thought. I just want the public, even though there's three of y'all here, whoever might be listening, to know that we are trying to worry and think of the big bad wolf that's outside the door that we are trying to plan for him. Thank you, sir. Rich?

Valerie, I think your point about what the market is doing, the actual market is showing some fluctuation now in values. And, of course, that takes a long time to catch back up, of course, with these property appraisals. Right. So I think we're on two different angles here. But both of them are true. But one's current and hasn't affected where we are. That's right.

Oh, Tim, did you have anything else?

No, sir. I just wanted to mention that. Yeah, no, I agree with you. Both arguments were, both presentations were.

Oh, absolutely, right. Yeah, we were saying the same thing. Same thing, yeah. Right.

Yeah, they're both correct, unfortunately.

Two things can be right at the same time, can be different and right.

And you still put them each in your pocket.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, one thing that I'm very pleased about as far as the way our city is operated is we have not created enormous bond issues. We don't have enormous debt. We have a longstanding debt that we're going to have to pay off until 2032, but no one here had anything to do with that. so we've been wrestling with that for years and when that's out of the way that's going to help us a lot and that's going to fold in not exactly because we're in 2026 but at 32 that'll be gone so if you as you forecast on off into the future which we should be doing thinking how that's going to work that's going to be 175 that's right 175 000 it's not going to be obligated in the in those budgets that's exactly right so if you think about it that way uh the city is in pretty good shape i mean even if you for as long a range as we can see shauna i know i missed the first part of the meeting and i apologize the council into the public i misunderstood i thought the meeting started at five it didn't it started at four but i have been corrected and i apologize Do you, Sean, looking at this and through the years you've been associated with this budget, what is your really heartfelt thought about this budget?

I remember stating last year that with the unknowns of whether or not the ad valorem is going to pass I would like to keep the millage rate at the 4.685 this year plus there has been some capital replacement issues that are starting to come up within the last couple months. That's why I recommend some of the excess actually going towards the capital replacement reserve as well as, or especially the road reserve. Not just to... I can't recall, were you here when I was discussing the balance of the capital replacement reserve? No, I didn't hear that. Right now we have a reserve already established for roughly $114,000. That can be used to replace capital items. know in the last couple months we've heard about how the firehouse roof is needing repairs i haven't heard if that's just repairs or if it's actual replacement it came to our attention today that we need to start looking at replacing the roof on city hall we really need to start putting some money in that Capital replacement reserves so that we can fund These expenses and like Chad and I discussed also about the public works building. I know that there was An issue this year. Well, it's an older building. There's been things needing done to it but if we don't start focusing on some of our Capital replacement we're going to be looking for money at a critical time.

Mr. May, may I? And I just want to make sure the playground equipment, which is in dire need of being replaced, would be a capital replacement, correct?

Yes, and it's also in CRA. Right, right, right.

But, I mean, we even have, I guess, the other park over there is CRA as well, isn't it? Okay. Yes. But still, I mean, if we don't have enough, if we do...

Okay. I'm bringing this up for Chad. What was your estimate on the repairs for the fire department for the wall? Just ballpark.

Expensive was twenty seven thousand twenty seven thousand and how much is a roof?

And this is just for one wall So my question is really maybe we need to really seriously look at a longer-term solution Like I said last meeting that moving them into trailers and look at rebuilding that entire back end of the structure to facilitate that. Because if we're going to spend what you just said to fix one wall, then we're going to spend money to put a roof on. Then generally, if it's that old, the other two walls are going to fail. then in five years are we going to be tearing down new construction to do the whole thing rather than piecemeal it? So I'm not putting it out to spend the money. I'm just saying this may be something that we may need to look at instead of just dumping money into something that's going to get torn down. And that's what our job is.

And to that exact point, that's exactly what happened with the old city hall. or the police station, we kept patch working it up, patch working it up, because we kept saying we were going to do something different, do something different, and then we ended up with a building that had snakes in it and all sorts of things. Your point's well made, Rex.

No, and I want to be clear. I'm not in favor of tearing down the historic fire station. Yeah, you gave me hard computations. But the back part of it, and I've gone by, it's really not that big of a building, I don't know, in terms of buildings, is that we may want to look at a longer-term solution.

Tim?

Do you have anything to add on this?

No, other than... I'm going to need to see in numbers why we're going to need to keep the millage rate the same. But the other thing is, Mandy, we have the resolution that says all surplus at the end of the year has to go into the road fund. Can we amend that resolution so that – We can add money to the surplus money to the road fund and add the end of the year surplus to the capital reserve that Shawn is talking about.

Yes, you can just adopt a resolution that would supersede that resolution.

Okay. Because while the road reserve fund is fine, We're funded for the next five years. We're showing where we can be funded. And with this end-of-the-year surplus, if it almost makes sense to me, you know, we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. We're not talking a little change. We could take that end-of-the-year surplus from last year and this year, put it into capital, and we would have more than enough money to do everything that we want to do. And still... lower the millage rate by whatever surplus this budget ends up having. All right? Because at the end of the year, bar none, okay, when you go back as far, you know, five years is what we typically go back, you're going to see we have hundreds of thousands of dollars in surplus. And I don't remember what 25, 26 ended up being.

Actually, we're in 2526 now. I'm sorry. One of those years. It was... Okay, we had $943,337, and in CRA we had $124,463. So see, there's almost a million dollars if we take that money.

uh, that's sitting there right now that was, that is supposed, you know, at some point is supposed to go to the road reserve, but we're funded. Okay. Right. Um, so we don't need that. So that'd be a million bucks. You know, as soon as Sean gets caught up with the books after, you know, all this season that, you know, adjust the, uh, modify the, uh, And we're going to slap $900-some thousand right in that account for roofs and all that kind of stuff. Because right now, with the numbers, the way that I see the numbers. Now, behind the scenes, Sean will correct me.

Okay, I'll go as far as to say this. I have to confirm for each year of the surplus that any of the gas taxes that were not spent on roads has to go to the road reserves. That's true. So there's a lot of things that I actually have to look at. as far as the surplus to see where the money actually came from.

Sure, and I'm with you. So based on what she said, the main number may not be $900, but based on what I know with gas taxes and all that, it's going to be pretty significant, especially when you add this year here and when we're done with this year. Thanks for not embarrassing me too bad, Shona. I wasn't trying to embarrass you.

Well, thank you. Rex? Anything?

No, sir. Thank you.

Well, once again, you've done a good job. Thank you. You've given us a frank view of what we need to be studying and what we should be considering for the citizens. Of course, along with this council, we want these taxes as low as we possibly can keep them. We did real good last year We certainly have about 74,000, was it, we put back? Wasn't it 74? Something like that, wasn't it? Yeah. If nothing else, maybe we should look at that as a target. And whether we go above that, I wouldn't go below that, because it's a signal to the citizens that we're continuing to be very conscientious of what we're doing. So somewhere in that area might be a suggestion. And I'd like to reduce them as much as possible. Because everybody, including myself, sees the expenses of trying to live in our hometown, and it's very difficult for a lot of friends of mine. And they need help, and we need to be responsible to our citizens.

And if I can add to that, it's a domino effect. So not only does your... Personal property tax bill, get in your pocket, okay. When it hits the businesses, they pass that on to the consumer. So domino effect.

Yeah, and that's a – I did a survey several years ago, and about 7% of the people who own businesses in this town live in the city and are able to vote. It was less than 10%. And I don't know that it's much varied since that point in time. I've not done that in a long time. It's gone around and just figured all that in. But I did that years ago trying to figure out the balance between our businesses in this town and how much influence they have over the decisions we're making. And we see the imbalance that a great deal of it. This was when we were having millions of dollars of investments when Publix was coming in, and we were seeing stores remodeled and things moving along. Millions of dollars went into our city. Well, that's great, but you have to remember that they have very little say-so about what goes on, and we want to be realistic with them, too, because they're paying a great bulk of these taxes. And that weighs on me, and I'm sure it weighs on the whole council.

Yeah, I always tell every business owner that they have as much voice here as anyone else, even if they don't live within the city limits. Because they are bringing people in, and they are helping our economy. Otherwise, we're nothing without them as well.

Well, things were real bad. And I did that survey. I went into two small businesses in town. And both the owners of these businesses, before I left, they were in tears. They said, I've invested my life savings in this business, and things are bad. And this is when our economy was real bad. And they said, I just don't know what's going to happen. But I need all the help I can to be able to sustain myself and my small business. And my back is against the wall. And there were two of them that actually were in tears before I left that meeting. So it always dwells on my mind when you meet a small business person and you realize they've invested their savings. And we need to be so respectful of that. And that goes along with anybody that invests in our hometown. We want to feel for them, too. But that's kind of where I am with it. And when do we, what's the last say on this, Shawna? When are we going to make the last determination?

The preliminary hearing is on September 9th at 5 o'clock. And the final hearing, I believe, is September 23rd, also at 5. Okay. So we've got... What I can do is... I should say, which millage rates would you like me to weigh out for you? Do you want the 4.685 and something else? I could, in fact, if I would have thought about it, I could have had the, I have the rollback and the 4.685 and, the preliminary millage rate all in a worksheet already, showing the difference in revenues depending on what we're looking at for the values for next year.

We're going to have a balanced presentation as far as as close as you can see in your recommendations of these different amounts.

Yes.

Melanie?

I definitely would like the 4.685 and maybe like a 4.45, 4.5. I believe rollback was right around 4.45, right around that point. I mean, my gut says 4.5. That's just a Valerie intuition. Thanks.

I'm good. I agree.

Tim?

Okay.

You know, nationally we're building a budget on the existing millage rate, okay? Rather, for myself, rather than have a target, I would like a lifetime millage rate. When the budget is complete, we're going to show a surplus, and then the millage rate that I'd be looking for is, if that surplus was removed, what would that millage rate be? Okay. You know, rather than... The Valerie guess? We're not going to hit rollback. Okay. You know, I don't see that. You think? I haven't really done that math yet, so okay. I love your expression. One of the few times, but not that I don't love you.

Actually, the reason for that look was it is possible. Okay.

Again, rather than have a target, I think the numbers ought to be what they are. So we have this surplus. We've removed the surplus. We're able to pay all of our bills. We understand what we have coming at us in the future. We're covered there. And rather than trying to create a target, I mean, that's what I'm looking for. Whatever everybody else wants, by all means. But that's what makes sense to me. You know, I'm a firm believer in it's not, military should not be the same or not be less it ought to be whatever the math tells us it is you know and I'm not in the political world even though I'm sitting up here I'm in the numbers world and I want the math just to work out and that way can explain it to anybody anybody that has a question whether they like it or have a gripe whichever side of the fence they're on I can wholeheartedly explain every single line item, explain the methodology, and I just don't know how anybody could have a problem with that, any reasonable person.

Well, I would think that would give us a range because what Tim's suggesting is the total amount. And then there may be some room between the council that they want to suggest something in between or somewhere along in there. But I think we're on target. Does everybody understand? Yes, sir. We're all in key. Did you have anything else?

No, I'll have these for millage rates before the next meeting.

Okay. Any further council comments?

No, sir.

Public comments? Anyone in the public wish to speak on this? Yes, sir. That's okay. If you'd like to speak, of course, we're always interested in hearing what you have to say.

Hi, Dan Myers, 10925 Southwest 186 Circle. Forgive me, I'm kind of late for this party. one time i was very involved 20 25 years ago was involved with the first two cras that were done cras community redevelopment and the whole thing is supposedly geared at increasing property values which further increases the money coming into it and at that time Part of what helped us get us over the hurdle is explaining that part of that funding could be used for basic infrastructure needs. And I think it's unfortunate over the 25 years, I think virtually all the money has been used for basic infrastructure. And we've seen very little community redevelopment effort. And I would encourage you to do more of that. One thing, just general appearance upgrades. were something, and there were various mechanisms to accomplish that. And the other thing was encouragement of more activity downtown. I think your special events ordinance specifically, anybody that reads that is going to say that Allen does not want any special events. And I would encourage you to revisit that issue. CRA specifically is supposed to support special events. And I think more of CRA funds need to be used in that direction for appearance and special events.

Thank you, Dr. Rice. Anyone else wish to speak? Anything else, Dane?

I did send you all a letter. I don't know if you got a chance to see it yet. I did. And one last thing I'd mention is that to see what can be done, if you visit Bristol River, Inverness, or Gainesville, you'll see some of the things that are possible. I think this city is diamond in the rough, and we can do better than what we're doing.

Thank you. Anything else? No, sir. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. There's a motion on the floor and a second. Discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye.

Motion to adjourn. See y'all on the 9th now.