Common Council - Regular Meeting

to our meetings regularly um and kind of give us an update on what was going on um the fee schedule that goes on when inside the city of Udica. So I know and if you don't mind if coming up just so that you can kind of introduce introduce yourself like how long you've been there and the position things like that I'll pass those out for you. the uh having trouble with my PowerPoint, but I I printed some out. Uh my name is Josh Ore. Um I'm the executive director for the Ona Herkimer Solid Waste Authority. I took over for Bill Rabio once he retired. Um I've been with the authority for 20 years. Um, I ran their operation, their landfill up north for years and then, uh, I was deputy executive director for two years, uh, right before Bill Rabia, uh, retired. And Bill was, uh, Bill was our leader for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for a long time. I brought Rachel Steel with me just to introduce her. Rachel is is kind of she's our our front face for the Udica collection. She handles um, all the complaints, all the calls. She oversees all the billing. Um any issues with uh with the contractor CWSI pretty much all goes through Rachel. She works with DPW here and there um coordinating some green waste and things like that. Um so I just brought Rachel around because she really is our our voice and our face when it comes to to the collection.

And one of the concerns that I had was number one how much we pay compared to other areas and what the collection is and things like that. So kind of give us a basis of where you started from and what you took over and then go from there. And I appreciate you putting together this PowerPoint.

Yeah. So so I mean just just fashion just just a quick history um you know kind of on uh on the collection. We've been working with the city for a long time since 1988. And and and one thing you know maybe for some new newer council members they may not realize but Udica was one of the first cities to really do curbside recycling. Um you know which which was a big deal. And that was part of one of the reasons that the partnership formed between the authority and um the authority in the city. Um you know and and in order to to uh you know talk about our system you know we all we all got to understand it and we know that we have a pay as you throw that or that's what it's called a pay as you throw system. So it's a completely self-funded system. Um you know we don't we don't tap into tax dollars when we talk about our solid waste. Everything in our in the garbage collection is um funded by two things. A user fee, which is an annual user fee, which is out there right now. We're getting them in. Um and then the bags. So, every time you purchase a bag, you know, you you're not just purchasing a bag, you're purchasing part of the service um for collection through through CWSI. Um we recently we have a 10-year contract with the city currently. That was in 2023. They signed a 10-year. So, we are contracted with the city until 2033. So, that'll bring us really up to probably the next contract with a new hauler. We'll go out to bid in 2028. Well, 2027, but it starts in 2028. Um, you know, what we do for the city, you know, what is what is it that we really do for the city besides um sell blue bags? you know, we procure the the sale of the blue bags. We sell the blue bags. We distribute it to all of the vendors. Uh make sure that we're getting paid from them with the blue bags. Uh we have two solid waste inspectors that work with uh codes who who check with, you know, write novs. Uh

they make sure the contractors are doing what they should. They deliver blue bags. Um and then this time of year, they're just finishing up their uh their inspections for the waste service charge. There are people who, you know, whether it's a vacant lot or um an industry who gets a dumpster, we have to verify that that they don't have to pay the user fee, you know. So, there are waiverss for the user fee. So, those are some of the things that that our inspectors do. Um I on on your uh in your packet, if you scroll, and this is one thing Samantha was kind of interested in, there there's a slide and it says estimated annual cost per single family home. And I think this is really important um because it really goes to show the value of the current system and how it's managed and what we pay. So, you know, I grabbed a couple local communities. We also manage a lot of the villages down in the valley. Um Illan, Mohawk, um village of Herkimer,

Colia, Dalgeville, Colombia. Yes, you're right. You're right. I got it in there as Colia. Um obviously they're a lot smaller. Um but you know it's it's we can compare it in price. Um so if you look the city of Rome um you know I kind of put what services they get. And one thing with the city of Udica is I've never you know after talking to a lot of people all over the state there's really no other collection that get the services we get. I mean, when you look at what you can put out per week, I mean, most of us, if you took advantage of it every week, I don't think most places have enough road frontage to fit everything. Um,

can I just interrupt you for one second? So, I think that part of the part of the issue here, and what a lot of people don't understand is that the blue bag costs keep that price down because it's not just property taxpayers that are paying it. It's actual everybody that whether they rent, whether they own, they're buying those blue bags in order to supplement that cost. Now, and maybe you could touch base on this really quick. One of the questions that is brought up to me all the time, why can't we go to a container that's closed and then you don't have to worry about the the crows going into the bags or, you know, bad storm? Why not go to a single container type system? So, that's and that's kind of the reason that I I I wanted to have you in here tonight because

that was the the whole thought proc behind thought process behind this. Can we get to the point where we don't have to buy blue bags and we can go to a containerized system and still have that annual annual cost per household for that? Do you need another one here? I got Okay.

So, yes, we can we can absolutely do it. And and um one thing I did if if you look in that packet, I actually attached kind of the villages because we do a hybrid model there where it's you can either use bags or toers. Um but yes and and you we can and we're actually at a point where it's actually a great time to have this conversation because starting really this summer into fall um we need to start talking about the next contract this time next year we we need to go out to bid for another five-year contract. We like to bid it a year in advance. Um, so you know, if if toners are something the the that they want to look at, it's it's it's time to have the conversation.

Yes. So I I want to tell you I want to thank you first of all for coming and for the people out there listening. We are probably the one that's service that you guys provide is one of the best things that the city offers. My biggest concern is not so much the blue bag. M my biggest concern is our recyclables. The recyclables in the orange bucket. And I know they don't give the orange bucket. Now you buy your own container, but that alone causes the trash, the damage, and all that stuff way more than birds or anything attacking a blue bag. The blue bag thing,

if you made them a little bit better, they got flimsy a little bit. That to me, this is my opinion as a taxpayer, is not the issue. The issue is the recyclables. And then my other question to you is I notice is there supposed to be two separate people come. Somebody picks a blue bag, somebody picks recyclables. Yes. But then you have certain trucks that have both. Correct. There are some that have split body trucks depending on what routes. Yeah. I don't sleep good, so a lot of times I hear them coming and I I watch them throw both of them at the same time. And I've had people ask me that.

Yep. and and we you know to to say we haven't had issues with that you know would be a lie but it is something we track um probably in the last couple months we we have we have caught the current um contractor mixing and usually so they're not that's not supposed to I thought if they had a truck with two different bins if they have two different bins yes but if they have one bin they cannot do that so is that contractor that takes care of it now Mhm. supposed to pick up both on two different trucks or it doesn't if it's a split body. We call it a split body. One side recycling, one side's um but CW CWSI I'm talking please

it made sense when they bought the trucks and they originally started the contract was they bought the trucks specifically so that it could take garbage pickup and recyclables. Right. And I I just want to understand the procedure that it might not make sense to take. So honestly I don't have I just want to know who's supposed to do what. So you CWSI does both the garbage and recycling, but usually they do it with two separate trucks. Garbage will come through. They'll collect the garbage first and then hit the recycling. Um you know there are times where we've caught them whether it's because of breakdown something like that mixing probably just to keep up. We do find them for that and they have to pay the bill on that truck.

Um you know that that does happen. Um, but yes, there's they are technically supposed to either have a split body truck that is compartmentalized with separate each or two separate trucks. Right. And my other question is when there is an issue Mhm. like people call and half their garbage is in the road or whatever. I always call CWSI and they come and take care of it for the most part. Yep. Is that who I'm supposed to call or am I supposed to call you? We'd prefer you call us. That way we know what issues are going on. And that and that was one thing I kind of want to stress with with the with the council. If you're getting calls or you're getting issues, reach out to us. That that way we can we know exactly what's going on. Um and we can we can kind of go after the contractor accordingly.

I had a question. Sure. Well, let them present first, then ask Well, just in in the in the case where if you were going to use a uh a regular garbage can for instead of the blue bag, um what would you do? Would you rent them cans? Because you you'd be losing your your the monies that you'd be making on the blue bags. So, usually what you'd have to do is you'd in in a city like Udica, you know, like Syracuse just went to to do they do a service fee one time a year. So it's it's a pretty astronomical fee to pay for their their residents. You would need two toers though, right?

Yep. So you'd get you'd get a recycling to a garbage toteer. Um and then in terms of billing, you'd basically either have one large user fee depending on, you know, on on the cost of the contract or you'd break it up into you'd build you'd bill residents twice a year. Um what we do for the valley is we bill them quarterly, the folks, but it's obviously a lot less billing. It's a lot less labor intensive. Um, so for for something like the city, you'd probably you'd probably bill them twice a year. Does anybody have both the toers now? They use one for recycling and one for garbage for the city of Udica. No, no, not I know not the city of UDA. Um, I'm just saying does anybody do that? And how's that work?

It works good. Um to be quite honest with you, um one of the things we found and and you know, if you look at some of the the the current trends in our area, we've lost a lot of haulers. Um you know, there are not haulers beating down the door to jump into this contract. So, a lot of haulers actually prefer having, you know, the towers with one for recycling and one for garbage because what we see, and I'm sure everybody will agree. Mhm. Wintertime last night in South Utica, the rain, we're hit, I mean, they're putting them out in those little containers and we're hitting them

and it just makes everything harder. So I mean for us as DPW the two toers would be what you and even and even residents when they call we urge them to get containers with tops you know years ago we did those orange buckets and it amazes me how many are still out there you know with duct tape and you know I every neighbor but the address is written on it you don't have but the thing was I think people are used to like oh that's what I have to have. So when we speak to residents, we really do push them to buy a can you can buy a bigger container because really your recyclables by volume are probably more than your that that will hold everything with a top.

You know, we we do try to push we push that and maybe it's a campaign that we need to we we could kind of run with um you know this this summer. Commissioner, would you say on what you're saying the biggest problem though it's not really the blue bags, it's the it's the it's not the blue bags at all. It's the it's the recycle, especially when you know when we're coming in to plow at night and you know it's a certain area, you can you can see the look on that plow driver's face that he's dealing with those. And this winter was tough because for a lot of people there was very little places for them to put their containers out except the road. Um, so but we do push that with tops of containers.

So as long as I'm opening my mouth. So I remember like about three years ago when I was on the council, I wanted I was in favor of doing the recyclables. Okay. In in the bins, they basically told me that which I would have been a great thing if we used the AR money and spent that and bought it. It roughly was about $850,000 for the city to get recyclables. Is that correct? It's probably more It's Yeah, it's probably like 1.5 now. No, but I think that's why I'm saying to get two recyclable bags would almost be I mean, you're talking $3 million. Yeah. But I think if we focused on one to start with

and keep keeping the blue bag thing because the recyclables to me is all over especially in the inner city especially all over that. You don't have to do that. So you supplement, can you explain how you supplement the cost per year and how that would actually work if you went to two containerized items on what it would be for the residents and how that cost would would affect the city?

Yeah. So I mean um if if we supplied the containers. So if we if the city decided to you know supply the recycling containers and we actually do this in the valleys for the bag people they have bag customers and then the hauler supplies every person with a recycling tote. Um so you know depending on how you bid it we could make it so the hauler covers it so it's in the bid and then it's you know a one you know it's it's it's a fixed number in that bid. Um you know we could it could be an add-on. hauler supplies the bids, the bins and maintains them. One of the biggest things with those bins, it maintaining them is pretty labor intensive. You know, you don't think it, but it's amazing how many tops crack, wheels fell off, but um you know, you could we could make it so in the bid, you know, or we could do it so the city or the authority, you know, we purchased the bins um and then we the cost of that would just be reflected in the blue bag price and the user fee. you know, it might drive that up a little bit or it, you know, over time it's it's a big initial cost upfront, but over time it, you know, you could you could spread that out.

The one thing I would ask, I'm sorry, I'm Marcus. I'm commissioner, but just to add to this conversation because you guys are talking about it, if you vote for it, it's going to affect what we do. The problem that we're seeing in codes is tenants will avoid buying the blue bags. Mhm. So, they'll throw stuff in their neighbor's bag and leave a mess over the lawn or they'll just throw it out of their window or put it in an alley or put it on a bag that doesn't get taken and then they'll throw it on a city lot. Yep. So, if you went to the totes, we would hope that that would avoid some of the avoidance because it would be a headache for us because it would it would contaminate the recycling because No, I'm saying if you went to a tote instead of a lube bag. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. But you would have to have two separate totes. That's what there was no conversation,

right? That's what I'm saying. So what he's saying is if you only did recycling, I'm saying that doesn't solve our problem of avoidance. No. And that's why this whole conversation started just to see what the cost analysis would be to see what what it would be per year because I mean if you look at the total overall picture on what we pay to outside areas, I mean we're we're lower than anybody. So if you look at that No, I know why you're talking. I just wanted to add that part of the problem that we have with bags and coats is that people try to avoid them and that problem probably wouldn't exist with totes. That's part of all of your calculations with everything else that you have. Right. But it has I mean because it can't be astronomical because even if $3 million of totes gets divided, you just want to know how much it's going to be. Exactly. Yeah. And I have no comment.

So one thing if you if you kind of look look through that the packet I gave you too, I did I did put in our audit from last year. So the one thing with the cost say say you went all to totes just hypothetically talking um you know the cost for those totes would eventually they would be a lot more than the blue bags but you think about the cost of blue bags you know we sell over a million blue bags a year um for the city you know so there is there is a cost there's there's probably a a $300,000 cost a year so you put that over a fiveyear period just the cost of the blue bags you know some of that cost can you know, offset by the cost of the totes. The only difference is you're paying for those totes up front. What's a tote?

Roughly $65. 6570. It depends on it. You know, on I just had one followup question. Um, one follow-up question, too, before we get back into the PowerPoint. First, uh Rachel, it's nice to put a face to the name because we've we've had a lot of conversations and thank you because um you know when someone reaches out, we pass it along and it's the issues handled in less than an hour. So, first of all, thank you for that. Uh second, to follow up on Councilman Beatress's point about the containers with lids and as you were mentioning, have you noticed I guess to the extent possible to track, have you noticed more containers with lids being put out in front of houses? I mean, I don't know how that would be tracked, but um

No. No. And maybe it's cuz I'm always drawn to those orange containers. Um but you know, I don't think we we don't see it. You can't get containers anymore. No. No, you can't. Right.

Yeah. We I I haven't noticed it to be honest with you. No, I mean I think and to your point um I think you mentioned somewhat of a campaign to get the awareness out when we found out about it that all you had to do is go to get the stickers and put it on the bins. I mean it's been you know it's very helpful when you have uh been able to get it with with wheels too. So no thanks. Y my my only issue on that if you had the totals some people that are going to save money and there's other people going to lose money like I barely use any garbage because I've never owned And if I hit one small blue bag, it's a lot.

Yep. And that's one of the biggest issues, you know, when you're And that's one of the biggest complaints we've always got of switching it is that, you know, the the the older the older folks or, you know, a single person that's paying, you know, a larger amount for, you know, the whole idea is pay as you throw. So it it can defeat that purpose a little bit. Does it work? How would it work for like two family houses who invite landlord at a time, right? It would be the landlord because that's who we build the user fee to, right? So then the cost would be passed down through rent, which makes that higher because the landlord is was only responsible for the annual cost per household, not the actual food banks, right?

So that's why I mean even if you gave the option and I think part of the part of part of the problem is that we've seen a lot of garbage. I mean we have very long there's just garbage everywhere and not saying it's the fault of any single person at all like right like it happens it's a it's a winter night say a fall truck hits a garbage bag like now the whole city's filled with and we haven't had a winter like this in a very long time which makes it you know back to the original reason why I wanted this discussion to happen because it has been a long time since we discussed actually looked at these numbers

and and I think what's important is we're we're at a point where it's it's the right time to really look at it and address it. Um, you know, so, you know, if if if moving forward, if if you look at if you kind of scroll through, you know, the last bid we did, we offered basically the same service but with toters. Um, so we offered the existing service with blue bags and then we offered a second option in the bid where it was the same thing but with toters. Um but the city um bought the totters up front, not the contractor. So if you see that price, that's you know they they're pretty close in price, the two um the two options, but that's not with the contractor buying the totters. That's with the city buying and maintaining the totters.

But that there should be three options, shouldn't there? Yeah. And then there's another one with green waste. Well, there should be shouldn't there be an option where if you had one tote in blue bags for the garbage tote for recyclables or you could have two toes, one for each. Yep. Or, you know, and and and that's, you know, we can bid it that way. Um, you know, to be honest with you, like I said, a lot of a lot of trash companies, um, they like the totes because it's all automated, less workers comp claims. Um but we still have all the other things we offer the CND things like that

you know so so you know that's always we offer you know the city of Udica offers amazing things but going down the road from cost um it may be time to also look at does it make sense cutting some of that um you know I'm kind of jumping around but you know that under under the estimated annual cost uh we just bid this fall Illiam and I like to point that out because they saw a 50% increase um in their collection. So if you buy two bags a week um on average your bags are $6 a bag. We we increase them like maybe 10 cents. Yeah. 20 cents 30 cents.

Yeah. One $1.90. And and they're they had to go up to six bucks a bag. Um so what was the reasoning for that if you don't mind me? It was it was you know that contract was bid in 2020 and it was a really low price um five-year contract and just the cost of everything since that was bid was um it everything doubled labor trucks you could potentially see our costs doubling possibly if there I would say closer to 30 40% would be what I would anticipate

and that goes back to my point like again the whole reason why you go to containerized two totes per per household. You still continue to put out what you need for, you know, recyclables, all item, electronic, that price could probably still be around that same price range, which that with that 30% to% increase. Yes. With less aggravation than having to buy. So that was that's that was kind of my question because it was way cheaper to keep those blue bags 10 15 years ago than it was at those

and and and and it it was but but I think what else I'm saying is you know there's a cost for the blue bags and there's a cost for the totes. One of the main differences you're you're paying the the cost for the totes up front. So over time, what you'd pay for the blue bags, it's less, but it would it wouldn't be quite quite as much when you looked over the 5year period. But the other the other thing that comes into play is so I use one bag a week. There are certain times in the spring and stuff that I might have cleaning out. You can put anything in there, you might have four bags. What do you do that week when your toe is filled? You don't have room.

A lot of it a lot of it is you get your toe a week. Um that would be it or you'd have to come down to our facility. Um you know so you are limited. There's a lot of people that put two bags of yard. Easy. The problem I got with the totes is if you buy a tote for $65 start being stolen by people. Yeah. We we see that everywhere. You see, you drive down Illyn, you know, neighbors are fist fighting over their tote. Um, you know, and that that is a huge problem. But they they steal the yard. You know, the

one of the one of the issues with the totes, too, is is it is more labor intensive. So, you'd probably have to hire one to two people to to deal with the totes. If I want to buy my own tote, you can do that. Can you get I'm talking about for for the instead of a blue bag. Can you give us a sticker that you can put on there that's garbage? They got to recycle. You still have to buy the blue bag. Yeah. So, we have a lot of people that do that where they actually put their blue bags in a trash can. So, I can't just skip the blue bag because then you guys won't make any money.

No. No. You also don't I mean they go and and one of the things is can you explain the process of once you pick up the garbage and then when it goes to your facility how you separate everything because once it's in the blue bags it doesn't mean that they just dump it into one they don't they rip it open they go through each individual item. Well for the trash mostly the trash we don't well if if people put the right things in their Right. Right. But but as for recyclables, I mean, we that you know, we still use a lot of hand sort

labor um to to go through to go through uh to go through that material. Um so, you know, that's why, you know, education and getting people to to keep I mean, it's amaz I mean, we could write a book what we've seen come up that line, but um you know, you know, just to protect our employees. And that was going to be one of the things I asked as well is that after this is all done, if we to schedule a tour of the facility. I've been senior operation. I know what you guys do and it's it's mindful. And we've actually, you know, we we've added quite a bit in the last couple years. Uh we've we've tried to get away from some labor, more robotics. Um so we're starting to use to kind of get into some more of that.

Last time I was there, they're testing between the robotics, you know, physical labor. So that would Yeah, absolutely. If we can schedule one of those in the next couple weeks.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, and and you know, I think, you know, I put my card attached to those packets. So, if there's if anyone has any questions or wants to email me, email me. Um, but I think moving forward, this is a good start to for us to kind of look at the bids and then come up with some options and and we could kind of reconvene. Um, we could we could come back in early fall and kind of go over those options if that's something I think it would be useful. That way, we're ready for the bid. Um, and then from now till then, you know, suggestions, we're we're we're open to to kind of look and see what those options would be. Um,

and part of the reason like you go to a new council every couple of years. So, as long as we have some, you know, information that we can provide to the next person that's as well. So, that discussion starting early this year would probably be the best. Perfect. I just had a couple questions. So the portion of the packet beginning breakdown by class to class one two three the full exemption 736. Can you explain that a bit? Yes. Yeah.

So a full exemption would be if you're a business who has um who hires contracts a hauler to come um or if it's a vacant lot. You know we have some people that own vacant lots or businesses um you know. So, with the exemptions, we've just finished the period where they fill out an exemption form and then we send our inspectors over to basically confirm that they either they have to supply us with what hauler they use um if they're using a hauler and we just make sure that they're not taking advantage of of our services and not paying that user fee.

Okay. Thanks. And then my second question, two to three issues that you encounter that if these two to three issues were solved would impact the overall efficiency and just make garbage collection smoother in the city of Udica. What do you what do you see as the top issues that can be addressed and solved? Not to put you on the spot, but yeah.

Um well, I mean obviously one of the biggest issues in in right now is labor and truck drivers. Um that's that's just an industry standard. I'm sure Mark sees it with DPW. We see it with our guys. Um so that's a huge issue that that obviously um really hurt us this past fall and winter um was a huge issue. Um you know the other the other issue is uh um probably the the proper containers. You know, we still see, you know, sometimes folks will, you know, for all different reasons, you know, they'll they'll use a three-sided container or a container that's duct taped where it makes it really hard for for throwers and pickers to um pick up or, you know, just to keep and contain recyclables and and not using the proper size. you know, most of us, we see those orange bins, they overflow, you know, so from a from a uh you know, and then the other the other issue is just cleanliness. You know, that that's a hard thing in our industry. You know, it's hard to keep trucks clean, you know, trucks, you know, when you're when you're constantly running them. Um, and those are things that that with the contractors, we're always, you know, it's always a battle with with everyone.

Thanks. Could I ask you a question? Sure. I see uh I just got this today. I see you have a contract with the city here and you compete with other companies to do the same thing, right? No, we don't. You don't? No. If you have a college track according to this for seven years and I presume it has a lot of written detail in it. Who sets the price of a blue bag? Uh, we do with council approval. Yeah. So, we recommend council approves. So, I'll get to my question.

Sure. My question is, why are you here? Well, I'm here because um with all seven years. No, it's only got two. Well, our contract our our contract is seven years. What is this? It says judge with all they can come in any time and ask for a blue bag increase. It says the 10year contract with authority April 1, 2023 extended to April 1, 2033, which is seven years from now. Yes. So again, my question, why are you here? Uh, well, we're here to because well, first of all, CM did it just to

You're looking for an extension? No. Oh, no. No. We're looking for an increase. No, we're just here to educate and talk about. So, we manage the contract. Yes, I do. We don't we don't pick up the waste. We don't collect waste. So, we manage the contract for the city. Yeah. Um and the reason we're here is because we need to start talking about, you know, within a year we're going to go out to bid for a new contractor to pick up the waste. To pick up the waste. Yes. So really it's to get the conversation started on on what changes the city would like to see in their waste collection.

Well, and and also new contract to pick up the waste and I presume that the blue bank is still in in the offering. Yes. Yeah. So and the price will be set at the time that contract Yeah. It all depends what that contract comes in at. Yeah. Okay. Answer my question. Thank you very much. Anyone else have any questions? No. Is there council? Council member Master, is there anything else you want to go through with your PowerPoint that we didn't touch on? I know you skipped over.

No, I I I think we I think we got everything. Um, you know, and part of it is again, I think the whole point is to start the conversation. I'm I'm glad Sam reached out. Um, and it's great for me to get introduced. Um, I appreciate that. So, again, if you have any any questions or anything, I think we have one over here. Council member Burmaster,

I want to thank you for coming and and and I get a lot of calls because people put the garbage out at 8:00 in the morning and it's not picked up until sometimes 3 4:00 the following morning and and then what happens? The wind comes and it goes on the neighbors and the neighbor says, "I'm not picking it up." And they pick it up and throw it back on the yard and nobody picks it up. And do you govern that? Yes. Mhm. We do. you know.

Um and and and in terms of of that issue, we had a lot of issues um this fall, you know, late this fall into early winter and and there was a lot of reasons why um whether it was, you know, a lot of it was staffing, um staffing and then the weather came in and that that when you're doing something like this, it's hard. But um I have to say, you know, we we monitor when they're done with collection. We get notified really in the last 3 4 weeks. Um they did get some the company that handles it got some new management and and I can say without a doubt it's gotten a lot better. Um and I think it's going to continue to get better. Um but to to say there wasn't an issue would be a lie. Um and and I think it's we do monitor it. Um we do push the contractor. Um it was a very stressful winter slashfall. Um but I think with the new management that that the current contractor has um you know they've been able to retain a lot more employees um keep keep employees. Um we had some nights where you know the temperatures dipped pretty low and you know I don't not many guys would show up. So there was a lot of issues this this winter and I can truly say that moving forward and I hope I hope some folks can see it. It has gotten a lot better than where we were, you know, in in December.

He's he's talking about specifically though putting out garbage early and how do we enforce that? So So that's good. So a year or cult will do it. Yeah. Right. And but the problem is that we have with the garbage put out early is a lot of times it's hard to attribute because the person putting out the garbage isn't always the person that owns the house. Yep. So sometimes it's like a tenant and we'll have to call the landlord and the landlord's got to watch the tenant. Some people go to work early. Some guys are truck drivers, so he drives a truck. He puts it out on Wednesday and because he's leaving for that night for a week. Um and and then some of it is just avoidance, right? Some of it is they miss the garbage truck on their day, they put it on somebody else's lawn, so they have to hold the garbage.

And and that was one thing. I mean, we met what, a year and a half ago, probably. And that was one of the biggest topics we talked about. Um so what we started to routinely do is we ended up getting more door hangers and and issuing more notice of violations. So, our inspectors, we changed up some of their schedule. Um, so now we have an inspector that will deliver bags in the morning and then his duty right after that is to start tagging people who have early put outs. Oh, very good. Like to know the people that do the garbage at 8 in the morning doesn't have garbage the rest of the day when they know they're coming at night. Honestly, we do a notice of violation.

They call us, they complain, they don't do it again or they'll say, "I'm on vacation." And I, you know, those aren't the real people we we want to target. It's it's the every t every week or the people storing their blue bags at the curb. You know, those are the people that we're really targeting. So, yeah, there are those instances. Um, we give them a warning and you you don't see it again. So, we have a couple questions. Councilman,

I just got one thing I just want to verify for the people out there. I understand it. So, like when the judge up there was talking about there's seven years left on the contract, there's two people that are in a contract. Solid Waste has a seven-year contract, but there's a second fashion, which is CWSI, that is going to be they're the pickup. Yes. You guys run the show, but Solid Waste does the pickup. So, I just want everybody to understand. Yep. CWSI does the pickup. We do the Yes. Right. Okay. Thank you. We administer the contract. Councilwoman Wookski, just have a quick question. First, thank you for coming tonight. is someone new on the council. I appreciate this. So, thank you Sam for setting that up. Um, I just have a question. When people call you, there's Sean, I believe, who said who? Yes, Sean.

What is that direct number that so I can put that out there? So, I can number if you could just get that just so I can put that out. We'll send it over. Okay. Yeah. Or or you can use a 7331224 number right on my card and just that and it'll go. Yep. That'll go through. Okay, thank you. Y and we would prefer please if if you talk to people push to have them call us. You know, that way we we track the complaints, we track the calls, you know, it gives us a really good idea of what's going on. Yeah.

I got one council over here. Bob's I think some of the people more in the winter time put their garbage out in the morning because when they leave for work or eight and nine o'clock when they come home it's dark. Yeah. So they just probably want to get it done before they go to work and come home in the dark and have to do it in the dark. I mean I you probably see more of that in the winter time than summertime. And and I think Bob's point was is that they put it out and it's supposed to get picked up at a certain time, right? Like 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock. And because they're behind on that schedule, they don't pick those up till the following day, 3 4:00. And then we got a call. I think I messaged you. Whoever does your Facebook page does a phenomenal job, too, because they're pretty they're pretty

good questions. The the one last thing that I wanted to state is years back, we went from actual blue bags to the actual blue bags and we went to the recycle recycled blue bag. Um And a lot of the complaints were that the the bags would get wrapped very easily. Can you explain that if something like that does happen and they do have a bad roll that they can bring it back to? Um yeah, you know, one of our one of our frustrations is we honestly don't get a lot of complaints on the quality of bags. But then when we talk to people, that's the first thing, you know, in general conversation, that's the first thing they bring up. Throwing the garbage out. Um and it's it's a difficult thing. A lot of times they over stuff it, right? So then they do break when you retire.

But we did but we did I mean they might be used a little better with the res but there was a problem. But there was there was we we actually during CO lost one of the the the best manufacturer of the bags that we had. So we go between these two other bag companies. Um and when you're selling a million bags there are defective roles. So what we tell people and and you know it's it's hard because we you have to tell them something you don't want people to take advantage of. But if they get a defective bag, if um if there's an issue with it, they can bring it back to the store and exchange it. That's the problem. And that's the problem is is so they would know if the bag broken off or something like that.

And and we want people to call us because if there's a defective roll at a bag, we can go we can go change it out. Um but thank you for coming. Sure. Sure. And then if you if you've got any more questions, don't be afraid to reach out. The only The only thing is is obviously for the council what would be a good day for everybody? Maybe a Tuesday. Um obviously after spring break to go visit to Yeah. I mean that's fine. So just Yeah. We're flexible. Monday, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, whatever. I mean earlier during the week then we'll do we do we have to come as a group or No individually.

You can come individually waste their time. go on two separate groups and you know I'm I'm down there quite a bit so it's not it's not a big issue and I'm sorry that we had to wait this long it's fine it's just as much my fault so all right thank you yeah thank you

so it's uh it's about 5:45 now we have about 15 minutes but um In followup to Councilman Beatress's point about the smaller containers overflowing, I think it might be worth looking into if um you know CDBG money can be utilized to maybe fund a certain number of the larger containers with lids throughout the city. it's maybe some kind of program where people sign up for and there's a certain amount allocated to possibly do that because to your point I think that would solve one of the bigger issues that we see of the o overflowing garbage. So maybe just food for thought as we move forward just something to consider to see if it might fall into the criteria that those funds might be utilized for.

That's the point for for the recyclables. Exactly. The overflow recyclables. Yeah. Just tell a president to buy a container. What a top, right? I do. I have a container with a top supposed that's not right now because we offer the blue bag service next year. So, a lot of people don't know and that's why he was just he could actually they could do a better job campaigning stuff like that to try and get people to go and we can do a better job telling people to pick their garbage up. I oh I but it's not easy it's not that easy to just we do have to set all contract and if they go for bid we got to see the cost analysis um on what the increase would actually

I appreciate I've got nothing else for this for this meeting all right we could transition out of this we have less than 15 minutes if we want to go over anything that's in committee or any other city business that can we do the the updates that they had for the vacant housing and the der properties. I saw that something came out. Oh yeah, they're not here. If we had lawyers, I mean, I can talk to you about sort of the operation of it, but there's two laws. Do you want to give us maybe just a broad overview and maybe we could set up a committee meeting for something tighter? Broad overview, but again, it was it happened mostly in it's ordinance 16

and ordinance 15 in our package. All right. So, our our codes commissioner is going to give us the broad overview of what's in committee. It was ordinance number 16. Yeah, you said I saw the updates for the vacant building, but the derelic properties. I just kind of wanted a briefing on from your standpoint. All right, guys. We're going to get an update from coach commissioner here. annual and this is in regards to what's on the books.

So, so what's on the books now is a vacant housing law that I think this particular one was modeled at skity a bunch of different municipalities in New York State had we've been over it before never got enforced. there were parts about it that um the mayor didn't like our version of the law and the city's version of the law and there was labor issues and so he said let's go to the table let's put all the interested parties together and try to figure out how to solve problems that I think are still unsolved here and very quickly can you just explain when this law was introduced and when it was put on the books and how it kind of went from one administration to the next little history on that

22 explain your issues with the law because I know there was some issues when it was sir. So 22 or 23 the current vacant law we have was put on the books. We went through um presentations some people on the council were here um it ended up passing the council. We met with other cities and how they do it and stuff. Our biggest issue involved was with what we already have. I don't I told the council at the time and they voted for it anyway and I told the administration at the time

with with with the staff that I have unless there was more money put into the staff I don't think I can do it like it's physically a lot more work than people said. So at the time she she would she's not here but at the time the council was like don't worry the clerk will do it. It's like no it's not that easy of a process. It's so it was it's very involved and we still haven't figured out the labor issues. Um, so like I said, that's part of what the mayor addressed and um, but he also didn't like some of the functionality or text of the law and so he asked law and he sat down there and they came up with these two different registries instead of one. So there's a vacant housing registry and a dilapitated housing registry and the dilapitated housing registry holds the more severe sanctions penalties

and that's the one that we have right now. Those are the We have them both in. So, no, what I'm saying is number one 15 and 16. Oh, no. I'm sorry. The second der derelict. Sorry. Yeah. So, there's a derelic one in and a vacant housing one in. And they're both in committee.

So, the So, the Derelick one goes goes very specific into what you can do in order to update that. And I think that when we were originally trying to amend the actual city code, part of that was an ordinance amending section of the city or determine an unsafe building. That would be the one that I was that I was trying to amend the code. I think that what the derelic one does is also includes that to that naked registry and coincides. So there's two separate registries. Now if you pass both of these, it's not it's not two, right? Okay. Yes. If you pass both of these, you would have to resend and replace the one

the current one and there would have to be two separate registries and then from a codes commissioner standpoint I would look at them as two different things. One's a vacant housing registry, one's a derelict property registry and we would try to maintain and keep and um that's going to be the talks that we're we're going to have to have. I mean the mayor I think he's committed to seeing it and get through and I can do anything. It just becomes a question of yeah, priorities, resource allocation, funding, you know, and so he says if we get them through, he knows where we would need to improve and we're going to try to do it.

I mean, which one you just like All right, so let's go back. Which one do you think could be enforced more that would hold more? The one that's on the books or the general property? So, what's on the books is is sort of like um it depends on what we're given. I think that's the question. The one that's put on the books is irrelevant to me kind of because it's it's been here for a while. It's two years old. Isn't it the goal to pass polls? The goal of the administration is to pass both, right? Okay. It's not it wasn't like an either or. It's to replace what's currently there. So, to resend that, and to pass it with both of these new registries. So, he wants a derelic candidate again.

Yes. So, I guess what's the difference in that? And are you doubling the work that it's going to take you to do those things? Because me personally, I'd rather see one or the other. Um, that's that's why I said I'd rather have um Yeah, this is meant to be a broad overview. Well, then that's why I'm telling you, I don't mind talking, but I would rather have like I'm I can give code's perspective, but the mayor's going to give his perspective of why he thinks two is better, and the lawyers will give their expense of why they think they're legally. I can tell you what's different, but I can't give you sort of like an administrative interpretation of, you know what I mean? I mean, I understand. I guess why don't you just put them under the same law and then you have the vacant registry which really doesn't technically consider doesn't have to be a derelch property, right? Right.

Like why wouldn't you just put them under the same and then have a vacant property and derelick property and obviously underclassified two different things

because they're two different things. So we would need two different registries. So I I can give you the short of it of like what I was told and how it went through. So, the vacant registry is we've had problems with people breaking in, creating fires. We have to monitor more. There's a real cost to us monitoring vacant housing. So, there should be a fee associated with leaving your property vacant for a period of time, right? Because those are the houses that we have public safety issues with that we have to devote resources to. We have with zombie properties, banks holding mortgages. They're often in LLC's, so we can't take them to court. So this was a way of saying occupy or sell your house or pay a higher fee for all the services that that house is going to take. The derelict property was the mayor is concerned about blight and he's saying our biggest problem isn't the vacancies, it's the blight. And some people leave their houses vacant and they look nice, but that doesn't address the blight. So I want you to people that have chronic have three code violations in one year, two unresolved. I want to put them on a more punitive registry because that will address blight

and that's what this that's what the derick one does. Yes. Not more work though because you're either going you're going to go the same codes guy's going to go to the house he's either going to use this or that. So it's not like he's going twice. I think having two registries is is well first of all somebody has crazy in my opinion.

So so first of all and we will resource it. First of all, somebody has to document all of these things and and put it in a physical registry. So, if there's two registries, then the address, the secretary has to set it up, put it in the registry, put the contacts, put the evidence from the case in. We need pictures, we need notices and orders, we need to prove that we had notification. We need origin of calls. Right? So, that's that's for each registry. We would have to do that. So, vacant, you got to prove it's vacant, you got to say there's no utilities, right? We have to say we have a neighbor deposition that says nobody lives there. Our codes officer signed the death um never seen anybody there. We have boarded windows. So we have to put all that evidence in with that property to say that property is vacant. For a der house we got to say we have sent them three different notices and orders this year. We got to keep track of all three of those notices. Prove that they were true and then two of the violations aren't fixed. So we put them on the derelict property. Then when they get fixed we got to take them off the der. So I guess my point is what's the pro what's the difference between that and a public nuisance abatement and and that goes back to my original point and maybe this is how

this goes to the taxes. Well I mean so does so does any component of our actual or city code of ordinances if we're abating it but this would be more structural. So we're not going to abate a porch. So, if your porch is broken, right, theoretically, you'll be put on a derelic property registry and then there will be a fine attached with

I mean, maybe I'm talking apples and oranges and maybe it's really not that big of a deal. I just don't know how we have a public nuisance abatement law on the books and you could actually take the vacant registry that's there. Look at the ordinance amending the Udica code of ordinances which was when the original problem when I talked to the public safety commissioner and added that component if there are persons found inside evidence of corporation council which allows emergency access to the building within I mean that's that would be an emergency like a derelic property is not just a regular building so I guess why wouldn't that go under the code of public nuisance abatement and well because nuisance abatement is so I I guess it depends on what you think nuisance abatement is so nuisance abatement if there's a nuisance the city has a right to evade it. So we have to prove it's a nuisance and then we evade it. Right?

So let me ask a question right that right there. What's the difference between a derelict property and a so der it's a codes violation and not a nuisance. So but codes violations go into that public nuisance baitment. I mean you have the police department, the fire department, everybody are involved in that as well. No, some of them and you emailed me but like a nuisance is like um you have a pest problem and it's spilling into the neighborhoods, right? That's like a nuisance. A derelic property is you have chipping and peeling paint. You have a hole in your roof. Your chimney's got to break off. I mean, do you really think that that's a derelic property? I mean, I guess Well, if you have two of those three things, then you're you qualify for this list. The way the law is written, there's a lot of properties in the city that are that are there. Like, there will be a lot of properties on this list.

What would be the fines? I guess they're there. The corporation council wrote it. Like I said, I don't I don't always feel comfortable explaining the law because I'm not a lawyer. Yeah, but they're in the legislation. Are we going to have a special meeting on these two? I thought they were going to be here tonight is what we said. A committee meeting. We need to have a committee meeting on these. Yeah. So before we before we wrap up before we wrap up now,

well before we wrap this one up now, um I think we had a couple of topics the council wanted to discuss in future committee meetings. If you just want to schedule a committee meeting for 5:00 before our next April meeting, we could do that and then move forward. Have a separate committee meeting and just go through it so that you're not in a time constraint. You have each department head here and then you don't have to worry about it. I mean, you don't want to rush through it. I mean, it was nice to have we had cell waste authority that took almost this going to take more than more than an hour. We could schedule it. We could certainly schedule a separate day at 3 4:00, whatever works. Yeah, I'm good with you guys, but they can't be an hour before.

All right. So, any other order of business or are we set to adjourn this one? Oh, Council Member Master. Yeah, I'd like to schedule a committee meeting besides that because I've had some calls about the towing and about the towing. From the tow the towing towing. I have not gotten one complaint. So, this is the first I'm hearing about it. Who's that? Who is that going through? Where are you getting your planes? Is it through the police department? Uh, I got one from J Auto. I got one from Right. But do we have any issues as far as the city goes? I guess deputy chief, if you can kind of vendors reiterate. Is it more coming from the towing companies complaining or is it a city problem?

So, there were two two towing issues that were dealt with by the police department this past two weeks. Uh the first one came through county 911 center. Um Shantino's towing. Um so, long and short, they they obviously the 911 center takes care of our tow rotation. Um it's totally promulgated by them. Everything is is is taken care of by them. Um they skipped Sharantino's on the tow rotation and it was by accident. They listened to all the recording. It wasn't on purpose. It was by accident. Shantino somehow figured that out, called county uh county dispatch center and talked to them about the issue. The county 911 center told them that it's a digitized rotation. So they were unable to manipulate the software and put him back on top of the rotation. It would have screwed up everything. It wouldn't have been it was just wasn't

because he would have just got twice. So his his answer was, "Well, why can't you just tell the dispatcher that's working today, put me on top of the rotation?" And the answer was, "That's fine, but it they work eight hour shifts. So if you don't get a tow rotation in that eight hour shift, the next the next dispatcher is not going to know. Even if there is a pass down, it's going to get broke. There's going to be a problem. And here's the thing that aggravates me is because they literally had one person on that till rotation for the entire cycle for the whole entire year. And we went and amended that and then made sure that everybody was back on that till rotation. So, I mean, a mistake is not done by the city of Udica. It was done by mistake. It was theirs. But

at the end of the day, we ended up getting it. We ended up saying, "Okay, we'll put him back on just put him back on on top for for the 8 hour shift. let's see if we can get him get him a you know his get him get him back the the the the uh toll that he should have gotten right and that was able to happen so it's a mute issue it's done it's all set um there um there was also another complaint through Jay's auto it came through the chief's office it was very detailed uh the traffic unit looked into it found no violations um I don't have it in front of me I have there there's an investig ation that was done. They did not find that whatever the complaint was. It wasn't validated. Um, and that's that's really all I got.

And we also still haven't uh fixed their storage prices. I know that's something that the council had to do. That wasn't you guys. No, I was going to request

we did do it a long time ago. They weren't happy with the storage prices on them and it just it it it's it's it literally got us to the the whole reason why this tow rotation started to begin with was because under the pulary administration they went to one towing company. Under that towing company they signed that contract. It wasn't fair to the rest of the towers inside the city. So they had to breach that contract because that was done in November before he left. They had to breach that contract. I think it was maybe three months into the new administration's new term that they had to break that contract. We went through it. They sat here. They went through everything that everybody was fine when they left and then all of a sudden everybody starts getting complaints on on fees and stuff like that. So I haven't received any complaints from anybody since then. So I mean whatever anybody whatever legislation anybody wants to submit that's fine. I have no problem with that. But to say that there's an actual issue on the city's behalf is is a problem as well.

The first time I've heard this exactly three years ago. I think it has to be that big of a problem.

I can I can get you more information on that complaint because I'm sure there's probably things that I'm missing. I just don't have it in front of me. I know it was detailed. It was it was looked into. Um and they didn't find whatever the issue that was that was alleged. They didn't find any issue. Um now when I did talk to Mr. Sharantino, he did allegate that there's there's there's plenty of other issues. Um but we didn't get into it. It was the our conversation was totally about the the mixup with the rotation at the county. I think we I think we should um I still think we should hold the meeting just to let them hear hear them out and everything that's going on. I don't know if you guys feel that way.

I know, but I wasn't there. And they've reached out to some if they didn't reach out to all of you doesn't mean that we just disregard it. They've reached out to some of us on the council. And if if nothing's wrong, I feel we should give them that opportunity to be heard. So, uh, so given the time right now, I think after this meeting, so we don't cut too too far into the premeating conference at 600, uh, we could follow up via email with the requests. Um, council member could pass it along as long as we have a quorum. We could set those committee meetings up, uh, and discuss each of the topics that we that we're looking at. Um, thank you with that. Councilman Ber, last one is I do want to call a committee meeting for the flock safety, but also I know UPD is here tonight, but we need to have engineering and it part of that in the future as well. Yes. Okay. and we could follow up on um I'm going to put my two Councilman Beatric.

Yeah, I'm going to put my two cents in on two topics. So, as far as the tow truck goes, you guys want to have a meeting, we have a meeting, but every time there is a mistake, there's no need to have a meeting. Obviously, we know what the rule is. The deputy chief just told us what happened. I mean, what are we going to change? We already we've already had it. I guess if we want to go, so they can come and tell us. But he just explained it to us. There's other issues. So So well that's not okay. So what are we going to do in two months when there's another we're going to keep having meetings about it. I just don't know how you don't. And then lastly to even know

lastly council person Ielo wants to call another meeting with engineering and all that and I'm all for that. But if we're so concerned about what is being said to the police, then nobody should have went public and brought something out that we didn't know about. So, I'm very glad that these guys came here tonight and I'd like to get a quick version of it and then if you guys want to call another meeting, I'm all for that. Thank you. All right. And again, we do have UPD representatives here, so I suggest we adjourn this committee meeting and then we could transition into our premeating conference. Motion to adjurnn.

Well, I add one one last thing, deputy chief, on on this tolling, are they going to fix their software to to make so this doesn't happen again? Are you addressing that with them at all? So, so the mixup was simply the um the dispatcher looked at was told it was was late night. She looked at the rotation. I'm assuming I understand through 15. She she she read it as precision was first not but but they have a software package that you can't put on the list. No, no, they couldn't fix it. So they they just couldn't they didn't their their IT department their IT department wasn't able to

wasn't a they would have had to do like a software change to be able to to be able to to be able to to to be able to um the rotation is was the rotation they would had to change the software to be able to get um shortinos put back on in front and it wouldn't it wouldn't screw up all the the other rotations. It's an issue with the software taken. Yeah. It was just they they weren't able to do it. Just give him a call and say we're leaving. Well, they they he wasn't accepting of of that. I mean, you know,

just just so you know that when they talked to me and and told me it was more than this complaint and it's been going on for some time and I figured if we could have a committee meeting, have the UPD and the 911. Bob, no problem. But please have them forward the complaints before we actually have a committee meeting because I want to see how many complaints there actually are because that that legislation's been on the book for a couple years and I haven't heard one complaint. I was actually the one that drafted that legislation and worked with those guys for a number of months to get that where it was supposed to be. I understand. You know what I mean? So I'm just saying I I received a lot of phone calls. I did. I don't We're just talking about it right now. They call us.

You guys have a complaint. The rest of the council this I just got yesterday. Has anybody from the council contacted you in regards to We just got it the information. Again, I mean I I I haven't been contacted. It's very possible that that the chief has been I don't know. Okay. So again, what we'll what we'll do from this point forward, we'll send an email with a request. We'll establish a quorum and then call a committee of the whole meeting on the specific topic that any council member would like to discuss. All right. I'd like to take a fivem minute break and we got we got to journ this one. Go ahead, Joe. I apologize. Go ahead. Second.

I'd like to start this meeting at uh 6:15. Sounds great.

to call this meeting in order. Thank you. Can I get a second? The first one, propose ordinance number one. It's an ENA transfer and street cleaning. Everybody good with this one here? Take a look. All right. Second one is it's an authorization for sale of beer to Mount Carmel the blessed sacment parish. Take a peek. Thank you for putting this in now instead of calling a special meeting in the summer. Everybody good?

Next one. Proclamation honoring the future stars of the Kresnik Soccer Club. Everybody go with that? Y. Thank you. Thank you. Next one's an ENA transfer fiscal year 2526 controller for miscellaneous revenues to for the ski hill project. Everybody good? Next one is a authorization supplement military leave. We're going to put that in committee. Correct, Sam? Yeah. Yeah, that one's going to committee.

Um the only thing the only thing that that this does just to give everybody a heads up is that it mimics what the county does. Um for those that are on military leave. Um it would go from 22 days to 30 days.

Thank you. And the last one is a resolution approved the appointment of the Udica city clerk's record access officer for the city of Udica. You got somebody you hired for that or me. You're it. All right. It's me. I'm gonna designate um Priscilla. She's been doing it for the past few years. So, okay, everybody go with that. And I got one more we're going to pull, but I'm waiting for our uh Did you Did you make a call on that? Director, we're good on that. And I'm going to pull the last one is going to be uh amending the section 2-2624 regarding sewer uh proposing ordinance number three. Okay, everybody good?

All right. Wait, where are you pulling that from? It's in committee. It was in committee. Yeah. Which number? It's proposed or number three. Ordinance amending section 2-26-48 regarding sewer rents. Yes. The two the February 4th one. Sewer rent number one. February 4th. I checked with the budget director. We're And then we can dispense the other one. Right. We're going to get rid of the other one. Okay. Anybody else need to pull anything else out? Which one? The last one.

Five on the bottom. You have to pull out. Which one's that?

Sale. You all right? Okay. Everybody good with that one? All right. Anything else? I'd like to close this meeting. Uh, actually I I disregard uh we have the police department here that we're going to discuss the uh the shots uh issue that uh it's been going around in the city here. Deputy Chief, would you like to speak on that?

Uh yeah. So, um, we put together some fact sheets for the, uh, ALPR system. It explains all that and then also the gunshot detector, shot detection system. Um, both, uh, you know, lock systems. Um, pass them all out so everybody has that. Um we're really, you know, here to just take any questions that uh anybody has regarding it to maybe clarify some things. Do you do you mind if we have the floor for one second? Go ahead.

Thank you. So the the reason that I asked this summary to be here was some of the questions were why did this get implemented? Um what happened to go from the spot shooter that we had to the flex system? Um in a basic summary of what the difference is, does it track people's voice recordings? I mean, we heard a number of things over the past few days and I think it's imperative that the police department explains what happened, why it happened, and what's the difference between those. So, that would be my only explanation and then obviously any questions that I have after that explanation's done, go from there.

Yeah. So, real quick, um, you know, I know there was a little confusion about when when the imput implementation happened, right? And so, um, Mud Curley's here. He's our lieutenant and C. uh the criminal investigation division. Um he's been our point person for this whole program. Um we've been a part we've been utilizing Flock for several years now, right? Um but the shot detection system um just came in they just came out with it not long ago and we and um they came to us uh there was a couple there's some reasoning and he'll go through it as to why we got involved but at the end of the day um and he'll get into all the specifics but at the end of the day um it was for a trial period the shot detection system right we already had flock um license plate reader cameras here in the city. Um, these aren't cameras. It's shot detection. Um, and so the mayor the mayor's office was briefed on a trial period, why we wanted to go into this or why we wanted to enter into this trial period. Um the the understanding after meetings with Flock was that the detection system was going to be implemented on existing infrastructure just like the uh detection system that we have right now uh was implemented. Right? So we didn't have any issues there was there was zero or there wasn't many questions with the with the detection system that we have right now. So, um, we thought it was going to be, you know, just another run-of-the-mill implementation, right? Um, so the mayor's office agreed, the, uh, our off our our department got with Flock and said, "Hey, let's let's go ahead and we'll we'll enter into this agreement

for the trial." And at that point, um, Flock contracted with a third party, um, company to put the, uh, detection equipment up in the city. That's where, um, things fell apart a little bit. The, the third party contractor ended up putting up poles um, and didn't put them on existing infrastructure and utilized the poles to put the equipment up. And that's where all the questions started coming in because people started seeing polls going up. So you now you had a poll on the rightway in front of your house poll. Uh some of the polls were uh possibly blocking some signage and there was just some lot a lot of questions. Right. So that's where the mayor's office stepped in said, "Hey, you know, there there's some issues here. We got to stop work." And work has been stopped at this point. And now um we realize that, you know, there's there's some questions that need to be answered. and that's why we're here tonight. Um, so Mike Curley is going to take over. Uh, everybody has the, uh, you know, the fact sheets. Mike Curley will be here to answer any questions you have, but that's just kind of a a quick snapshot of what happened.

And I don't know if Lieutenant Curly on this, but there was a cost analysis and the difference of what the SP the Can you just touch base on that as well just to kind of get the monetary amount into why that was an incentive to go to for that as well?

Yeah, I can get that in a sec. I just want to give a little historical context with respect to the technology program and the overall violence reduction program that we have. So in 2023, we entered into a program with Flock for license plate readers only at a cost of about $39,000 for 13 different LPR locations or different cameras at six locations because you have to have them shooting opposite ways if it's a large enough street. So you capture the entirety of the roadway. Then uh a year later, we thought that it would be most advantageous to us in large events or other places that we need them if we needed further coverage to get what's called flex LPRs. Those are removable solarbased LPRs that we can put up. So that brought our total context to 15 LPRs. Then something called the law enforcement technology grant came out in 2025. That was a large project. The state of New York put about $150 million into the state to get just things. Part of that we wanted to increase our footprint. We felt most advantageous to us with respect to flock and things like that. So we got another 10. So currently we stand at 25 flock license plate reader systems across the city. Those were designated and we call hotspot locations determined by temporal and hotspot data where the shots fired are most prevalent in the city. It wasn't just a a happen stance. We did a lot of data driven stuff to figure out evidence-based stuff where we should most advantageously put these places with respect to where the shots were firing, where we think the cars would be leaving or entering into the area and how they would assist us in investigations. So that's where we stand now. Then about 18 months ago, we partnered with Sound Thinking and Shot Spotter to have an acoustic gunshot detection system in the city of Utica that currently covers two square miles. Again, as evidenced by the most prevalent locations where shots fired happened in the city of Utica, right, we did a lot of deep diving into where we had historical shots fired, where we had historical hotspots, where we've had historical nuisance properties and

things of that nature and place those particular locations at those places. Just recently, I just question just to make sure I got this in a head. So, you have you have the one that just you got the 25 plate readers are out there that are just reading plates, right? And then you put the then you got the other system that picks up shots that are fired. That's right. And that's the shot system, right? That's shot spotter nomenclature of the particular program. And how many of those do you have out? Uh that is proprietary information that even shot spotter will not give us how many sensors they have around the city. It's two square miles of coverage. Why wouldn't they tell you?

They will not. I I don't they I don't think they want people knowing exactly how they triangulate their data. It's proprietary and that's what their stance is. So people don't. All right. So Jack, so those sensors pick up it triangulates, right? And they triangulate and give and and give a really credible

location for where each shot took place. If there's multiple shots, they'll give a a credible location where each shot took place. And it's all has to do with triangulation. And it's proprietary. And that's why they don't want to let us know exactly where they put them and how many are out there because then then other competing companies could utilize that. And and one last thing on there and I'll let you continue. Now these these shot spotter systems they they do not pick up human voices. Is that correct?

They do not continuously record in an effort to pick up human voices. If there is an alert at the time and someone is speaking under a sensor that is alerted, it will give a very half a second to 1 second snapshot of a recording on that device. So to say that it can never pick up a human recording would would be false, right? But it is not recording human conversation. It's not recording with the intent to capture anything but the triggering event being gunfire set off on that second. How many seconds does that run for? It's It's instantaneous. We can certainly bring one up and play. It's within a second. So the voice where it picks up the voices just for one second you're saying.

You wouldn't even get You wouldn't even get an entire conversation. You may hear a voice. Just trying to get it in my head. You would have no context of what is being said. Okay. It's not a long enough recording. Can you just explain what an alert is on what that would actually?

Yeah. So part of the two-mile system uh with respect to shots spotter we'll get come back to the the Raven system with uh flock in a second. With respect to shots they have an algorithm initially that detects a loud sound we'll say that is akin to gunfire. We have had some false alerts, say a dumpster dropping, say fireworks, something of the nature that is of the same acoustic timber that a gunshot would be that would set off that alert. Right? We are very conscious to make sure that we alert them when it is a false alert so that it doesn't one come in our statistics and two we're not continuously responding to false alerts so they're improving their system. Um that is whatever that is. So with Shot Spotter, that alert is picked up through their system. It goes into an AI system that further filters out anything that believes not to be gunfire. And then they have a secondary alerting system that it goes through a human entity that then confirms what the AI system says. Once that all is confirmed within a 60-second period, it is dispatched or the officer self-dispatches. Right?

Does that make sense? So what I'm getting is you got you got a speaker over here, you got a speaker over here, you got a speaker over here. Boom, it hears a noise. The system goes live for a second. So it could triangulate exactly where it is. It comes back to you guys. It tells you your whereabouts that that gunshot was fired. Is that the gist of it? In essence, I yeah, I don't want to speak for them with respect to their technology, but that's exactly, you know, it's going to give us the closest sensor and a distance from that sensor to the alert and then give us within 90 ft of exactly where that gun fire is. and give us a dot. Does everybody understand how the triangulate works? Well, it almost sounds like Alexa with the buzz word. Once you say Alexa triggers that

where wherever wherever the noise is coming through where where where they where they cross where the beams cross, that's where that's where that where it was shot. Triangulate isn't exactly the right word, right? If we're going to get real specific, it's how many sensors picked up that sound in the area and then which sensor was closest with respect to the time of the the incident to the reverberation back to the sensor. So it could be five sensors, could be six sensors. Say triangulate would institute only three. It says how many sensors in that particular area. It just tell you the closest sensor that picked it up.

And the these really are not for preventing crime. What it does is it alerts you. It gets you there to maybe de deescalate the situation quicker and also give you a better chance of catching who it is. What what what I hope this whole council is I'm getting off the subject for a minute. We got to realize these things are going to get us to the place quicker. They're not going to stop it. What we need is we need more police. Crime is getting very bad in this area. I mean, Mohawk Streets had some incidents. We don't have enough police on the road. I hope everybody starts getting through this head their heads. I've been saying this since I've been on the council. I got on the council for safety. That was my main thing. This council's got to start backing the police. The public's got to start backing the police. That's the only way we're going to stop crime. This is going to deescalate a problem. This maybe help us catch the people that did the problem, but it's not going to stop the cause. Presence is only going to stop the start of it. And everybody on this council's got to start backing these people. The public's got to start backing these people because we're going to have a serious problem five down five years down the road. And I sound like a broken record. We're not going to have enough cop to bring in here and ask questions. That's it.

And if I may have the floor as well, unless you're are you still I have a lot more to say, but I'll certainly ask answer questions. Oh,

I'll hold it to the end. Hey, just real quick then I'll I'll summize it quick with respect to the councilman's things. Prior to our total I will call it the totality of our nonviolence or our violence reduction strategy. We had over 200 shots fired in the 22 23 year. We're down to 60 shots fired in the calendar year of 2025. We had over 40 non-fatal shootings in that same period during COVID. We were down to 11 last year. We were down to 11 homicides at our height. We had six, you know, with four gunshot homicides. the totality and and to that point I believe that it is also a strong deterrent factor to know that we have these programs as well as the couple with

well other things like that. Exactly. You know probation has bracelets we have this we are looking into some other technological programs. So there are aspects that in an argument can say that we are reducing crime along with a a strong robust technology program. Um those are just some statistics. I want to get back to the initial questions where we came prior to the thing. So about six months ago, uh, Flock came to us and said, "Hey, we also have a gun detection system. You live in our ecosystem otherwise. Would you guys be willing to partner with us for a six-month free trial to try our control gunshot detection?" So, back to the deputy chief's thing. Um, it's long. The polls aren't owned by the city of Yuka. The physical pole, any any non-metal pole, let's put it that way. any wood pull across the city which are the majority of them are going in cooperation with uh tele communications companies such as Verizon AT&T as well as national grid. So without permitting that takes almost 18 months to get a permit on a particular pole, not to mention the hundreds of poles that we need um would take 18 months each pole. If we had existing infrastructure such as conic boxes or the arms that we own, right? We own all the you guys know that we own the metal arms. You can put stuff on the metal arms as long as it doesn't hang over a DOT rightaway. Once it hangs over the DOT rightaway, we have additional permitting problems. So there's a big problem with putting stuff on existing structure. So, what's Flock's point was in here is that if we want to give you a six-month trial that you can go arguably head-to-head with Shot Spotter in your contract period to see if you like our product and if our product would be advantageous going forward, we need to put these polls in as a trial basis, not as a permanent thing, we can come up with a permanent solution. Should uh after extreme evaluation decide which product we like better, we will determine exactly where the permanency of those PS will be. These bowls are just for the the right now for the trial period to get up our sensors. Uh there are about with respect to councilman's question flock will give

us the number of sensors in totality. Shot spotter will not we have a stop order. So we're lacking about 35 polls currently. Once those are up we will have a full three mile square coverage area of this particular system versus the two-mile system of shot spotter. And it is a cost benefit analysis. It is a usability analysis. It's a technology analysis. There's a whole lot of factors that are coming into which product we like better and we won't know until it's really live until we're going through it all. I think we're about 70% um 70% complete of sensors that were going to go up have gone up. So 75 70% have gone up. There's about 30% that are the ones that gone up working.

They are live and working. So when you say working flock can detect accidents, loud screams, fireworks, and gunshots. We have disabled everything but gunshots. We don't care about anything else. We don't want to know anything else. We are simply in a head-to-head trial versus two gunshot detecting systems. We, as police department, will get dispatched to firework calls through the regular dispatch process. We'll get dispatched to car accidents through the regular dispatch process. Loud screams and fights will get dispatched to the regular shot. We we don't one we don't want to listen to those things and two we are only interested in a head-to-head comparison between two technology. Can you put that all in your original?

Yes, we're certainly not trying to hack things. So a lot of this was simply that we don't know what product we like better. So we didn't want to go wholly public and put two competing competing companies against each other. That was never our intent. We're not in a battle of economics. We're in a battle of what works better. Is it an economic advantage to us to get a further square mile for a little bit less coverage or is shot spotter such a superior product that it is worth having a little bit less coverage but the product they provide is better and that is what we're testing and see that's my speech

so let me ask a question so we're talking about these polls so when you made the contract or the agreement with this you knew they were coming to put polls up. I'm one minute. I thought you said you didn't.

So, so initial initially in talks with Flock there, they were supposed to go on that they there was they were supposed to go on existing infrastructure. Okay. But once that once the implementation process came about, it was a third party vendor contractor was hired to put the to to put the sensors up. They came in, they they they realized that, hey, we're not going to meet the deadline for the six-month trial period if we put it on existing infrastructure because of the permitting process. Okay? So, they made the decision to put up the aluminum poles that you see around in the in the cities right away,

but they didn't tell they didn't tell anybody that was not there was a communication failure.

Okay. So, why if we know the answer now and we're 70% active, what's the hold up now? Well, so there was people were, you know, there there was some questions that were coming up. Hey, uh there's there's polls going up in front of my house. Why? What is this? It looks it looks suspicious. It looks like it's some type of equip. I don't I don't you know, people were were were getting, you know, they they were they were worried. So, the mayor's office was started, you know, getting questions, complaints. They stopped it because they went they they looked into it and not and noted that all the permitting that should have been done wasn't done by this third party contractor. So, he stopped the work. It's currently stopped. We're working through that process to find out um exactly what needs to happen to make this right and hopefully restart the program.

Right. Well, obviously you gave the statistics for the last three years and we're way down on gunshots and homicides. So, I really can't understand why anybody would be um I don't know the word, apprehensive about somebody putting something up that's going to make the city safer.

There's also a note that in our studies through two years of Shot Spotter, over 82% of gunfire does not get called into the 911 system. The only reason we're getting dispatched gunfire is because of gunshot technology. And we've solved at least three lives and we've made over 17 felony arrests. And I would say and I would say the fear the fear factor with these here up and around people are thinking twice before they're running around on the street with a gun shooting it because most likely they're going to be apprehended. So thank you guys again for coming. Councilman.

Yeah. Just um so sound sound thinking shot spotter verse flock. What was the what was their elevator pitch other than cost? You know why why go with us? we do this this and that that shot spotter doesn't do just wondering about that. So we have an existing eco ecosystem within flock. We are continuing to want to build that ecosystem based on the LPRs. It would in some sense make sense to have one vendor that we're one one vendor to pay one vendor that may be cheaper and two just we have an existing ecosystem with respect to the software that we use as well as then the hardware and we're not always trying to on a two-year rotating basis trying to sign different contracts.

Which uh if we know which company has been around longer was one first to the to the market with this technology and then the other followed or they kind of pop up around. Shot spotter's been around longer with respect to the gunshot detection in of itself. They're about even in existing in the world for time period. Lieutenant Curley, as far as the mile range goes as well, Flock was able to range further than Spot shooter was as well currently, right? Um so I mean even if you're talking about cost analysis, I think that that range and what you're paying for might have less detection systems because you're able to go further with the city with the So that was probably one of the points that Flock made. Hey, we could cast a wider match.

And I don't and I didn't I wasn't in those discussions, but I would assume that just based on that analysis, they were able to go further. Our school analysis showed that we're we're looking for a three mile radius. We're looking for that three mile three mile coverage. Um we have a two-m coverage with Shot Spotter. Flock knew that and and and was able to offer us the three for that trial period. And that's so that that's why we, you know, we're looking to get that three mile coverage. Have you run into any problems where uh Frank you've got these I got Katie's next. Go ahead Katie. I didn't see her raise her hand or anything. She did. Sorry. You know you Why don't you finish and I'll go after you. I was just wondering having had problems when you had these shot warnings.

The heck, Jack. Go ahead. I She had to ask to to ask a question and go ahead. What the [ __ ] Um, have you had the problem where you haven't had enough like officers to answer these calls yet or like you haven't had enough patrol like you had maybe got two or three different shots fired at once and you only got two patrol cars on? Has that happened yet? I will let the deputy chief answer with respect to staffing things like that.

So at this No, that that that hasn't that hasn't been an issue as far as um so call volume varies every you know throughout every shift, right? Um and um so it's at at some points uh during a shift we might be voluous with with with cars and there might not be a ton of uh calls that are either current calls or pending calls. Um but you know so and it varies throughout the shift. Um at times there we're we're you know we're thin, right? I mean, um, there's the the the call volume is voluous and we don't we don't we may not have enough cards and calls are backing up. There's also time to go to to the shot. You might be doing something and have to leave to go.

I mean, that happens all the time. That that does happen. That does happen. But at this point, we're not seeing any serious um manpower issues as far as not being able to put police officers in cars. Um, uh, not at this point. Um, so I I don't know if that answers your question. Yes, sir. Um, you know, but it all depends on what type of call volume we're getting at that time. It's a good point. Okay.

Thank you. Uh, I just want to reiterate, none of my concerns about this are about the police aspect of the system or about whether or not we should have gunshot protection, gunshot audio detection. uh it's really coming down specifically to flock safety and I uh provided both of you both um white papers and it it discusses over 50 findings on the flock safety vulnerabilities and compromises and I can share with the rest of the council as well and that's something we can follow up it's about 87 pages long so we can follow up at another time but I think a lot of people when we're talking about this as long as we are worried about people's safety a lot of that is also their privacy and uh these have been known to be compromised easily, very easily. Um, and I think a lot of people are assuming that this is just a trustworthy system automatically. I think we'll find out, but uh, some things I want to address, I guess when I was looking at the policy that we have for these things. One of the things that I think that we should have, and I don't know if you already do, what is the incident response plan? If it's hacked, who investigates it? Uh, is it shut down? Is the public notified? Are those anything that you can speak to now or should I

I cannot and and I with respect to Flock, I would ask that their experts provide some of that information to you. If they have an overall policy, um certainly either alleviate or try to answer or if not, well, do we have a means to detect if the devices are compromised? Uh so we they are pretty robust with respect to a functioning device. I'm not sure if there's an alert internally to say, hey, it's not functioning because of a hack or because of something. So, I would get it further. Flock has, you know, does have a representative that will and is willing to come out and talk to common counsel, any any community representative that wanted to

we could certainly reach out and um set a date and time and and they're they're more than willing to come and answer questions. Does ever come? Did they ever come to like the city and give a presentation or just just They are more than willing to. They've been here dozens and dozens of times to meet with us. So they're not adverse to coming. You guys have not compromised at all throughout your dealings with them as far as the system that you have in place now. Not that we're aware in any capacity, you know, never handle it. Uh yeah, as far as Yeah, I just find them to be uh data brokers more than they are in the interest of security and that is I would love to speak with them and that would be great. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Venice, you're next.

Um, yeah, I I'm getting a lot of questions about the data sharing and I see you got on here that um data sharing is controlled by the department. Well, what's happening is a lot of people are looking online at um this particular detection and they're saying that um a lot of the information is shared with federal agencies um including ICE and other federal agencies. So, do you guys have a policy on what you're going to do with that? Are you going to share with federal agencies? We not only have a policy internally that we've released numerous times with respect to the city overall, but as far as the hardware, we have turned off all sharing with federal agencies. We do not partner with them in any reciprocal sharing of LPR data in any fashion.

Okay. So, what I would like to see is as you go along with with this particular program that the council does get a report on if you do start or if you don't start. We have absolutely no intention and in fact the system has been administratively turned off to allow sharing with federal partners. Okay. Thank you. But if it ever changes, thank you. Piggy backing off of that, is there any uh agreements with the state or you said just federal? So state does have access

within 200 miles the system is set to a default to automatically share. The whole purpose of the system is that if a crime happens in one local, you can then either track that vehicle and or be aware that a hot list is what it's called has been entered in that plate is wanted for a particular crime or that individual is wanted who is the registered owner. So it is advantageous to us to have that geo fencing where we have that on all the time. Anything outside of 200 miles, that particular uh jurisdiction andor law enforcement agency has to physically request shared data. Um we vet each and every request individually. We haven't found a reason to not really, you know, get a lot of requests.

Uh they come in batches, right? So it's it really is dependent on who's signing the block or if they're new. If they've been existing, they probably already in the sharing network. Yeah, they come at times. All right. Any other questions? Joe, just one. Um so Flock itself, do they have a data sharing policy? I think a couple years ago you were on the radio discussing rings, Ring cameras. They changed their policy a couple years ago. How does that work within the company?

Flock does however flock does not own the data. Everything you see with respect to those things have been foilable requests from our understanding right have been foilable requests that a particular entity or several entities have partnered together to coate that data to put it on a website. So it is not shared from flock. It has been shared from multiple government agencies that an individual has taken the time to then push that shared data out. We own all the data. So all the sharing is it our request our behest if we determine it to be useful in a criminal justice system. We do not push that out in any capacity. Flock does not own any data in or that they could even share if they want.

You mentioned something too. How how would that work for foil requests related to that data? Has that been approached or broached or discussed? Purged unless we save it after 30 days. So even a foil request comes in, there's a good chance that unless that has been saved with respect to an ongoing criminal investigation, which couldn't be foiled anyway because it's an open investigation, that that data has been purged from the system, there's no accessible. So by the time the foil came in, was processed and went through, it wouldn't be available anymore. Sam, go ahead.

Lieutenant, is there anything else that you wanted to add in that might have heard from the public that could possibly, you know, put at ease to the public that's that's paying attention and anybody that's reporting on the news? What you the new release that discussions that we had today could be summarized and maybe just wrap up like the difference between the flex system that we had before the flex system that we have now and and really you know understanding that this isn't we're not just putting it up to put the put these things up there there's a reason for it and there's data data behind it.

Yeah. And just real quick with Flock, they have been super proactive with respect to upgrading their systems to encou their job is to make their customers feel alleviated that those kind of sharing techniques are are both legal and and not out there. They've done a great job. They've upgraded all their systems that used to run on not to get, you know, a certain Android system. They've upgraded to the latest Android system that has more protections. Uh I I know the concerns are out there. All I can say locally is we have had none of those problems. I cannot speak to Flock as a company in general nationwide. We haven't had any issues. We haven't had any breaches. We haven't any concerns about sharing. Uh and I and I think the biggest thing is that it is just a six-month trial period with respect to clock. There is a whole lot less data collected from gunshot detection than there is from LPR. And in the three years that we've had LPR, we have had absolutely no concerns from the public with respect to our having flax systems and the the crimes they've solved. Um I I I personally believe that a lot of this is just as a result of those polls being very visible and very visible locations. Unsightly for one and concerning because we probably did not do a great job of getting out there ahead of this. It came to us. We're now trying to do it better. But it was a lot of because it wasn't a system that we had totally sold into yet. It's a trial period. We were weighing our options with respect to two different vendors and we didn't know what we wanted and what's the point of talking about something that never comes to fruition in six months and we're getting rid of anyway. We created a whole lot of buzz for nothing. Um we are very happy with Shot Spotter. Very very happy with Shot Spotter. Um it's yet to be determined what sound thinking or what Flo gives us that Shot Spotter does and except for maybe a little more coverage and respect to cost. That's obviously a business negotiation. And I just would like to say uh that all of this funding comes from grant related services. It comes from the DCGS give grant. It comes from the LA tech grant

that we talked about and it comes from a a violent crime reduction rural technology grant. None of this is municipal uh monies. It's not in a budget from the police department. We at no point have any intention of asking for any kind of municipal funding from this. Obviously, it affects the public, so it's good to know. The money will all be coming and budgeted through proposals that have been vetted through both the police department and DCGS approved and that's how this technologies. All right, last questions going around. Anyone? I don't got any questions. Thank you for all the work that you guys do guys coming in as well. I just want to verify that in six months say we love this and this is great. How it would be grant funded is that how and how much would it cost in just ideally?

Uh so numbers are varied right? numbers vary by time. Currently the bill due in 2028. So it wouldn't it's it's kind of a revolving cycle every three years. So we sign what our term of contract with flock is is every three years. So uh this year you want to know the total cost of everything we're paying for just the gunshot detection. Just yeah total would probably both answers both. Okay. So 71 of 26 we're going to owe 39,000 for 13 LPRs.

Uh seven next. So our give cycle runs 71 to 630, right? So that's how we budget our our technology. 72427 we're going to owe 7,000 for the two flex LPRs, which are the portable ones. 31428 we're going to owe for the LA Tech grant for the town LPRs and the additional one. 2028 is when the audio detection bill would come due. Currently, obviously, we're a ways away from 2028, but the price quote at this point for three square miles is 105,000. It's a bit more for two square miles with something. And that is certainly a consideration that we have to take into account with respect to the totality of the projects and what is the most advantageous to us both financially as well as a software and hardware perspective.

How are you guaranteed the grants are going to come in and cover?

We're not we're certainly not. Uh and that is a a value we have to make. You know, we are pretty much guaranteed through the extent of this state administration and this is the third administration that has saw that gun violence reduction is a priority through the state of New York. And overall, it's only $36 million compared to a $9 billion budget. So, it's it's a real drop in the bucket. You know, obviously 36 million is a lot, but when you look at totality to be able to push for something that's really affecting communities, I don't think they're going to get rid of it. Uh there is a another tech grant alleged to be coming out this year that would give us a significant amount of money. We got about 900,000 last time in 2025. I think we'll be asking for somewhere around that. If we get that, we'll be funded for a 5year period with respect to all this stuff.

Thank you. I appreciate you guys coming in and sharing your Well, I'd like to thank you gentlemen for coming in and uh telling us what you know and and for being on top of this. And if you hear any anything else coming in, please be feel free to come and share it with us. And in the meantime, uh thank you very much.

I just want to say one thing like in the the police department and these Well, I mean, it's it's important to know that they are here and they're accessible. I mean, there's not a time that you could not call one of them and ask for this information before you go public with that. So again, I mean, anybody any officer that I've talked to or especially Lieutenant Gurley and and Deputy Chief Hull and Chief Williams, like they they are they are there for questions that you have before things get blown out of proportion to actually get the accurate information to put it out. So that's why it was important for you guys to come tonight and and dispel any any misinformation. And I want to say I agree and thank you. And I know uh Chief Williams isn't here, but he I got to talk with him for about an hour last week and appreciated that even on his time off and thank you for all you guys do. Thank you.

All right, I'd like to move to close this premeating. Can I get a second? Motion to. All right, meeting is over.

people first. Please take your seats. Yes. What's that? Council members, please take your seats.

This meeting will come to order. The city clerk will call the role. Hyello, Burmaster, Betar, Carone, Irvin, Beatric, Wazooski, Clasimotesta, Lamemetico, Drew President.

Please rise for the pledge of allegiance followed by a moment of silence for the deceased members of the common council. To the flag of the United States of America and to the stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Is there a second? Is there a motion and a second to dispense the reading of minutes from the previous meeting? Motion. Second.

Thank you.

We have a public hearing tonight on the purpose of sale on West Street and Sten. We have one speaker, Francis Brown. First, I want to be clear that I am for the building of the Udica Thrive project, but the lots up for sale by the urban renewal agency are on the sten side are part of the Martin Luther King park. If I am reading this legal notice correctly, the buyer impact uh Cornhill LLC plans to use the lots for the construction. Then it should be converted to parking for the impact center. If it was going back to a park, I would be fine with it. But turning it into another parking lot, I'm not okay with building parks, not selling them off. Granted, the impact center is putting in a 9,000 square foot impact uh recreation space, but it will be it will be the use of the impact center only, not to the general public. The general public will lose about 13,636 square ft. Do the math. Does that make any sense? What is it? Is it really going to What's really going to hurt me is the two old trees that will have to come down. I wrote my second or third council speech under them trees, getting the vibe and courage of the man that the park is named after.

Where do you think I got the idea of I had the dream speech? We are selling it for a mere $100. The mayor says we are in economic crisis and willing just to take $100 for 13,600 square ft. A land assessed value of about $4,800. And that's not even the full value. One of the trees alone is worth way more than $100. So Udica is getting the raw end of this deal. Granted, Udica has to has to thrive, but not to the cost of our green spaces. So, no matter what I say, you're going to pass this. But it's going to show Udica that you have no care for our park system. What's next? Start selling off Proctor Park. And that's what I have to say about that. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. You want to vote on this right now? Yep. Motion to pull ordinance five. Yeah. Okay. I have a motion and a second to pull from committee. Motion. Second.

Thank you. A resolution authorizing Motion and second for proposed resolution number five. Yeah. Ordinance. Yep. Second.

Yep. Ordinance approving the designation of Impact Cornhill LLC as an eligible and qualified project sponsor pursuant to article 15 of the general municipal law for the purpose of the sale of 318.6-211 West Street and 318.66-2-50 318.66-2-51 and 318.66-2 52 St. Ben Street for $100. Whereas the purchase of offer for this property has been received by the Yuka Urban Renewal Agency from Impact Corhill LLC and the developer proposes to purchase the lot for $100 for a payment of $100. Votes, please. 9

is adopted. Public comment period allows for three minutes per speaker. Our first speaker is Francis Brown. Francis County Council has provided you a copy of section 3244 public comment period. Are you in agreement with the rule? Yep. Thank you.

Free speech, the bedrock of American dis uh democracy, should not be infringed upon ever. The public comment rule 3-2-22D 2 is unconstitutional underneath the Sullivan case law. Those who won our independence believed that public discussion is a political duty and that it should not be a fundamental princ principle of the American government. They recognize that the risk of which all human institutes are subject but they know that the order cannot be secured merely throughout fear of punishment for its infraction. that is a hazardous to discourage thought, hope and imagination. The fear breeds um repres representation and that representation breeds hate. That hate menaces stable government and that path of safety lies in the opportunity to discuss freely supposed grievances and proposed remedies. Justice Breen delivered this opinion from the Sullivan case 376US 254 270. With that, when is the city actually going to take action to protect the common and lowclass citizens much as the campaign contributing community? The common council has passed all ordinance they want but not enforced. What what good are they? Last meeting the registry of vacant properties was just for show put on for the fire on Genese Street not a couple hundred yards from these chambers.

The broad the broading the boarding ordinance passed recently must have been a fail if someone entered that building. I'm still waiting on the city to hold these bad actors like the 18th floor partners and their multi-shell companies accountable for their numerous properties. Due to urban renewal o owning most of these properties at one point I think something shady is going on. It's hard to get to the bottom with the threat of trespass if I go into urban renewal. What was was I given a reason? No. Am I entitled to due process? Yes. 184 just like the city is about to learn. Once I start paperwork, I do not stop. No deals but a nice trial to expose the truth. The bricks will fall one by one. The Budica police deadline on my notice of intent. I

Francis, you're going to last meeting is just about up. the sergeant blinding me with that spotlight while doing a constitutional in New York State legally protected activity. My time actually up. Your time is up. Three minutes. Okay. Thank you. I'll continue this on Facebook to all my fans. Next speaker. Next speaker, Ron Vincent. No,

Ron. The common council has provided you a copy of section 3244 public comment period. Are you in agreement? Yes, I am. Thank you, Ron.

My name is Ron Vincent. I want to thank our DPW department. Um over across from Kennedy School, there were two trucks and two drivers over there today picking up all kinds of waste all over the ground. Spring is here. They did a nice job. A lot of that stuff is garbage that's blown all over because people don't know how to maintain their buckets. But a lot of it is also by the people that come there every single morning to drop their kids off at school and then take their litter bags and go and shake them outside the car. I wish something could be done to stop some of that, but I know it can't. Also, yes. Uh, Monday, there were three gentlemen in a truck from the DPW at my house. I have a big creek in the backyard of my house, and they were down inside the creek picking up limbs and branches and things that could clog the pipes. They went around to probably all the creeks in North Utica to do the same thing. They're pretty religious about that and they do a damn good job. I really like to thank the DPW Parks Department for what they do. But springtime is coming. There's going to be all kinds of crap all over. The wind was terrible. And with the flooding issues coming, if anybody's going over into North Udica on their way home tonight, do not go down where they have. On my way over to the meeting, half the street was flooded out. I went over to

Mohawk River. It's going over the banks and it'll be flooding out where is real good. We have a big flooding issue due to the Mohawk River. About three years ago, I went to a meeting in Rome, New York. It was the New York State DO and a bunch of other organizations there, and they were talking about the Mohawk Valley flooding issues and all the ideas they had to fix things. One of the things I suggested to them, and they were pretty well aware of it, was to dredge the Mohawk River. Because if you go down Dyke Road and you go over the Mohawk River, the water's running maybe one to two feet deep. Up here by the canals zone, the water's probably about 30 ft deep. That's why that this area gets flooded so badly and uh especially the War Zav area. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Rob. Our next speaker, Boddon Rabarski. vote on common councils provided you a copy of section 3244 public comment period. Are you in agreement? Yes. Thank you.

2026 marks the 110th anniversary of the annexation of the southern part of Deerfield to form what is now North Udica. What is the largest district of Utica contains a throughway which is a gateway to the Anoranic Mountains and beyond. It contains the Eerie Canal, the Mo River, and now recently reopened Harbor Point. After some research, I found in 1909, a well-known Udica civil engineer, John R. Baxter, devised a plan to utilize a Knoxville segment of the former Moawk River as a harbor. In 1911, the New York State legislature approved his plan at an estimated cost of $695,000. Construction of the Udica Harbor connecting the barge canal in its entirety was completed in 1918. The lock at Udica is the only one in the entire canal system that is outside the main channel of the uh serving only the branch that leads to the harbor. Along with the two hotels that are projected to be built are also 120 housing units overlooking the r the water, a 40,000 square foot entertainment complex which will also be included in the U district District vision for Udica. Many East and West Udica residents took advantage of the home building boom of 1954 19 through 1968 where once stood farmland now stood now stand single family homes. Over the years, many invested in businesses have opened up uh including recently announced two coffee shops coming into North Utica. To celebrate the annexation, the North Utica Neighborhood Association is planning a party on on Saturday, May 16th at 1 p.m. at the North Uta Community Center in Riverside Drive. All of you will be receiving your invitations, but for now, I want to let you know to mark your calendar. The Weaver family was the biggest land owner in what is now North Utica. They still have homes in use and streets are named after them. I thought it would be

an honor to find a descendant of the Weaver family. Well, with a little help from the Nuna family and social media, I was able to find a descendant living in Poland, New York. I've spoken with him and plan on visiting him next week and he's agreed to attend our celebration. I want to end with a little bit of history about the annexation that many citizens may not be aware of. The information I have is from a book by Deerfield Town historian Virginia Loin called Deerfield, New York, a glimpse into the past and from Howard Bushinger's book on North Utica called The Look Back in Time. There were three reasons why Udica annexed the land from Deerfield. One, in 1891, 249 acres were annexed to straighten the Moawk River and control the flooding over the railroad tracks. The large annexation of 4,100 acres occurred in 1916, which is why we're celebrating 110th anniversary and that's what formed North Utica. Two, the small town of Deerfield didn't have the funds to replace the Leandav Bridge over the Eerie Canal. Before the annexation, Leelandav was called Miller Road. Udica replaced a bridge and part of the annexation renamed Miller road to Leonav. Coincidentally before annexation warts was called proposed street. Three, it would give Udica control of the Deerfield site of the railroad tracks that contained brothel in the area referred to Hoboken and it gave Udica the authority to tear them all down. I leave you with that bit of history and hope I see everybody there.

Thank you. Our next speaker, Caroline McCleas.

Hi, Carolyn. Common Council's provided you a copy of section 3244, public comment period. Are you in agreement? Yes. Thank you.

Don't like it.

Why don't you just put up a sign at the entrance to the city that says the three mile center of the city is under total surveillance. license plate readers, things right in front of your house that pick up conversations and it's not even foilable unless you do it within 30 days. So you say and what is flock doing with the information with the data? You say you own it. I don't think so. Thank you.

Thank you. We do not have a guest speaker. No communication from the mayor. Report of city officers. We'll start with um our budget director, Elmer Caltech. Nothing to report. Thank you. Thank you. Stephanie de Giorgio, corporation council. Nothing to report. Mark Suckalowski, our DPW commissioner.

Yeah, I got a couple things. I just want to let everybody know that we start, you guys all got your postcards. April 12th, green waste. I know people are putting it out now. We saw a lot of it last night floating around in the city going down the street. Number two, last night my five my five sewer department guys were out there for 15 hours and we had minimum flooding and I appreciate the hard work they did for those five guys. And LA and the parks department as well with the litter. We are out there doing black top. And lastly, I want to congratulate my secretary Danielle who's going to take over the human resource department. We're going to miss her, but you can't leave people. You got to let them do what they want to do. And I always told her, just go for what you need. So, we're going to miss her, but hopefully she doesn't rat me out in human resource. That's all. That's all I got.

Thanks, Commission. Deputy Chief Holt.

Uh, just real quick. So, I know there are some concerns uh that there's been some incidents over at Proctor Park and uh we call Plaza East, but it's 11:22 Mohawk Street. It's uh McDonald's Plaza, Hannerford Plaza. Um so, I know there's been some concerns there over the last week, couple incidents. I know Proctor Park had a few fights, Bazise had a few uh you know, issues there. Um we we do have a plan um with with the good weather coming up and uh with spring break uh on the horizon here. Um so on starting on Friday, we'll have increased patrols, UTV patrols in Proctor Park and we will also have uh designated targeted patrols um uh at Plaza East from Friday through so this coming Friday through Sunday of next week. So that whole spring break period there, we're anticipating, you know, a lot of kids out on the streets, things like that. Um so we'll have increased patrols uh to deal with any problems out there. Um the patrols at Proctor Park will be um dependent on weather. Um so if there is going to be if the inclement weather is is projected, uh we won't have the the patrols that day. It just wouldn't make sense, right? But um uh if weather is, you know, going to be cooperative, we'll have the UTV out there. And then for Plaza East, um our proactive uh unit, the tactical unit, they'll be handling the designated patrols there at Plaza East. Um we have talked with um the Plaza manager and also uh the owner of McDonald's, let them know what's going on so that they know that, you know, we have a plan and we're addressing the issue. That's uh that's all I got.

I just have one. Thank you, Deputy. One quick question. Um Council President Judy, were these school age kids or were they older? It was a combination of both because I saw that there was one person that was arrested at Mock Street that was 20 for the for the for the pre for the last incident then. Um yeah, so some school age and and and then other uh not school age. Lieutenant Curley. No, sir. Thank you. Thank you. There is no cash report petitions from citizen appeals. We'll start with first district council member KDL.

Thank you, Mr. President. Uh happy first fiscal day of the year, everyone. Big day. Uh but Elmir, I know this isn't really Q&A time, but is is the new budget already posted at Munis? It's going to be posted by Friday. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I'll probably be here Friday. Oh, well hopefully you're you have your holiday off, too, as well. But thank you. That is all I have. Thank you. Second district council member Robert Burmaster.

Thank you, Mr. President. Just so you know, next Wednesday, West Utica, five points, six o'clock. I I don't know the topic is because I didn't have a chance to read my phone. I've been here for the last couple hours, but uh I want to echo on the what the commissioner said about the sewers. I um one of my neighbors actually did my sewer the other night and I I I was surprised because he's a young kid and I didn't expect it but I it doesn't hurt you. I live on a corner. Doesn't hurt me or or my family to go out and take care of my sewer, but it makes a difference. You know, clean your roads and it shouldn't be on the DPW. They do a great job. Thank you. Thank you, Robert. Third district council member, President Protemp and Committee of the Hall, Chair Joseph Bar.

Thank you, Mr. President. Uh, just a couple comments in our committee meeting earlier. It was a a pleasure to have a representative come in from the Onidita Herkimer solid waste authority. I certainly learned a lot uh and having UPD come in to explain um learned a lot there as well. And from the looks of it over the next month or so it looks like we are going to have uh some other committee meetings on a variety of different issues. So looking forward to that because each of these committee meetings uh listening to individuals speak and discuss and give uh their perspective and their background on certain issues. U I enjoy for no other reason learning for my personal knowledge and it's uh it's always helpful to have more information. So again thank you. Thank you Mr. President.

Thank you council member. Fourth district council member Frank Kerkall. Thank you. Fifth district council member Vennice.

Yeah, I'd like to thank um um the DPW department. Um I've been watching them. They've been really out working hard on the parks, especially about the park. I saw them cleaning that up. That was pretty good. Um thank you for the police department coming tonight. There were a lot of questions that um residents had uh about um some of the things that they saw going up. So, I think you gave him a little bit of information tonight, but it would be nice if you get the more information out just to the residents. Um, what I read tonight answered a lot of my questions, and I'll get as much out as I can at my next um um neighborhood meeting. So, thank you for that. Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you. Sixth District Council member, Joseph Petus.

Thank you, Mr. President. So, uh Mr. Vincent stole my comments. I uh I was going to thank Mr. Sakalowski. I I I know I am probably a pain to him with my emails and requests. So, I tried to save him on Friday. I called I tried to save him on Friday. I called uh Mike Ferraro from the school district and told them the mess in front of Kennedy needs to be picked up since you guys blow all plow all the snow into the banks. And they usually did it. And this morning I was going to email him again and say you forgot when I went by it was already picked up. So thank you and uh sorry to be a pain all the time but you guys do a great job and your parks team does too. Um I would like to recognize the uh Notre Dame high school girls varsity basketball team. They were eliminated in the state championship two weeks ago making their third consecutive imper appearance in the state finals. two years ago they captured the state state championship which is an incredible accomplishment. Reaching that level year after year is a treatment is a testament to their hard work and dedication and I want to commend them on that. I have invited them to the council chambers while I will be presenting a proclamation at the time that works with their schedule. Lastly, I would like to recognize my wife's aunt, who's also became my aunt, Vicky Peritano, who passed away this past week. Vicki began working for the city of Udica around 1960 in the purchasing department before moving into the accessor's office where she spent the remainder of her career. A few years prior to her retirement, she was named the first female assessor of the city of Udica, an achievement which she and her family were incredibly proud of. I'd like to say, Aunt Vicki, rest in peace. I'm sure

you're up there taking care of your family just the way you always did. It's all I have, Mr. President. Thank you, Council Member. Council member at large, Heather Wlooski. I don't have anything for today except for thank you for coming out and explaining everything tonight. Um, also I did want to say uh their department's not here engineer. Um, Nick's done a great job answering my calls on lights. He's always gets back to me within like a few minutes. So Nick, if you're watching, thank you. Um, and that's it. Thanks for president. Council member at large and minority leader Samantha Kalisla. I got nothing this evening. Thank you, Mr. President. Okay. Thank you. Council member at large and majority leader Jack Lameico.

Thank you, Mr. Mr. President, I'd like to thank the police department coming down and explaining the the shots and the flock system. I think it's a good system or whatever which one you use. Um, you think about it, it it replaces police officers that we don't have on the street that we're short at this time. They make up for a lot of issues out there and it and it catches the bad guys. You know, if you're driving around and you're worried about that you're getting your license plates uh tagged, well, if you're not breaking laws, you don't have anything to worry about. So, thank you very much on that. Mark, thank you for taking care of those street lights this this week for you. Very much appreciate it. That's it. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, council member. Okay. I have a motion, a second to introduce proposed ordinance number one. Motion. Second.

Thank you. ENA transfer fiscal year 2025 2026 be ordained that the controller for the city of Udica is hereby authorized and directed to make the following transfer of funds. Um account A5817.402 street cleaning supplies for um fire retirement teamsters health and police retirement for $367,5855. Votes please nine adopted. Motion and a second to introduce proposed resolution number two. Motion. Thank you.

Thank you. authorizing sale of beer and wine to St. Mary of Mount Carmel, Blessed Sacrament Parish. Um, Sa St. Mary of Mount Carmel, Blessed Sacrament Parish Parish Festival. Friday, July 16th, 2026, 5:00 p.m. to 10 p.m. Saturday, July 17th from 5 to 10:00 p.m. Sunday, July 18th from 12 to 3:00 p.m. Location St. Mary of Mount Carmel, Blessed Sacrament Parish, 648 J Street, Udica, New York, 13501. Votes, please. 90s adopted. Okay. I have a motion and a second to introduce proposed resolution number three.

Motion. Second. Thank you.

A proclamation honoring the future stars Kresnik Soccer Club inaugural U14 girls team. Whereas the city of Utica recognizes the importance of youth sports in fostering teamwork, discipline, leadership, and confidence among young people. Whereas Future Stars Kresnik Soccer Club has demonstrated a commitment to developing young athletes and strengthening community ties through inclusive and accessessible soccer programming. Whereas in October of 2025, the club established its first ever all girls team, the future stars Kresnik Soccer U14 girls team, making a a significant milestone and expanding opportunities for girls in the athletics within our community. Whereas the creation of this team reflects the dedication of coaches, family players, and a community that has all worked diligently to build program promoting inclusion and empowering young women in sports. Whereas the team represents the spirit and diversity of city of Udica, bringing together young athletes from across the community and contributing to the continued growth of youth soccer in the region. Whereas the future stars Kresnik soccer U14 girl team serves as an inspiration for future generations. Now therefore be proclaimed that the Udica common council hereby recognizes and honors the future stars Kresnik Soccer Club U14 girls team for its season and its contributions to youth development and community pride. Be it further proclaim that the common council extends its best wishes for continued success to the players, coaches, families in this outstanding program. Votes, please.

I just wanted to ask briefly, you didn't want to invite them in or are you just going to present them with the proclamation? We'll just present it to them. Okay. I don't mind being a co-sponsor to that as well. Yeah, if we can do full counsel if everybody's fine with that nine adopted. Do you have a motion and a second to introduce proposed ordinance number four? Motion. Okay, I got a second. Second. Thank you.

ENA transfer fiscal year 2025 2026 be ordained that the controller for the city of Udica is hereby authorized and directed to make the following transfer of funds. Miscellaneous revenue $257,000 for the skill skiill project $257,000. um to incorporate explanation to incorporate additional funds to the ski hill project using ARPA interest. Votes please nine needs adopted.

I'd like to make a motion to put um resolution number five in the committee. Second. Anyone opposed? Why are we putting it in committee? So here's here's the thing for for this one. The resolution authorizing the supplemental military leave is that that's right. So that's number five. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Authorizing Yeah. I mean that's that's just putting that. Okay. No one's opposed commit. Okay. I have a motion, a second to introduce proposed resolution number six. Proposed resolution number six. Did you just want to make an amendment and put the name of the person that you were putting in that position? Yeah.

So, as long as I know you were saying you were designating somebody for that. I just wanted to ask if you just wanted to clarify that that she was the one in that role of that responsibility. She's been doing it. Yes. So, she's going to stay doing it for as long as she Okay. But you're okay with it just saying city clerk and designated person. Okay.

Yeah. Thank you. A resolution to approve the appointment of the Udica city clerks as records access officer for the city of Udica resolved that pursuant to section 22122 of the city code of ordinances. The city clerk is hereby appointed records access officer who shall perform the duty set forth in article 5 of the city code of ordinances until such time as said appointment has been rescended. The city clerk may designate a person within the city clerk's office to perform the duties of the records access officer under the city clerk supervision. This appointment and approval should be effective immediately. Votes, please.

Nine is adopted. Thank you. We get a poll ordinance number three out of committee. Yep. Taking a motion in a second. Second.

Yep. Okay. Ordinance amending section 22648 regarding sewer rents be ordained that the section 22648 of the code ordinances of the city of Udica fixing the amount of sewer rents is hereby amended to read as follows. Um monthly billing cubic feet first u 1500 cost per 100 cubic feet will be 2.433 next 18,500 cubic feet cost will be 2.032 032. Next is 280,000 cubic feet cost 1.697. Next 1,200,000 cubic feet cost 1.380. And the last one 1,500,000 cost 934 votes please.

Nine adopted. And Mr. President, a motion to dispense ordinance for committee. Okay. I have a second. Just

just a point of order before we close the meeting. Um obviously resolution number two with the piece established. We didn't pass anything. So whatever's on the book now is what we have to go by. Um we still have softball coming up. Um tennis there's there's several things that need to be addressed. Um organized. So if we want to call a committee meeting, I would suggest the fee schedule for that. Um obviously the property registry and the vacant property registry that that's on the books. Um and then the only other one was um the resolution for the um military leave. So

following Tuesday afternoon, do you guys want to call special meeting or that would be a committee committee meeting? I mean that way we give you let's uh let I think it we might be better start following via email and picking a day for each of those topics because some of them are going to take several hours I think versus some might take a half hour. So I think we might have to get outside of our Wednesday. I mean I'm okay with Tuesday. I I would recommend send an email so everyone can give their times so they look at their schedule before making a decision tonight. Right. So I'm okay with the following Tuesday. Um I think it's the 14th of April, the day before our regular council meeting, our next regular council meeting. Yeah. I mean that way if we have to vote on anything or have any requests for the department head odds to be there on Wednesday. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Do we have a quorum availability?

That's that's all I'm saying. That would just be that Tuesday the 14th just to just to send it out. Repeat the date and time for the clerk. Yeah, I mean I'm okay with any time whatever everybody's what everybody's five o'clock 14th 14th the 14th and we could do it in increments of everybody's time of of all right we'll put a we'll put an agenda together probably going to need a couple things no I agree I think we're I think we're going to need several committee meetings for everything that uh is coming up have a motion a second to adjurnn adjourn