Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

So, why don't we call to order the meeting of the plan commission and we'll start with the pledge of allegiance. Thank you. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Start with a roll call, please. Here. Here. here. Here.

Thank you. So, we have a quorum. Um, the first item on our agenda this evening is consideration of the minutes from our meeting of May 7th. Hopefully, everybody's had the opportunity to review the minutes. is I don't have any problem with the minutes, but would think that would want to talk about an update on on those things if there are any updates. So, I don't know if this is the right time for that discussion or Well, how about if we get a motion regarding the minutes and then it would once it's moved and seconded then it's open for discussion. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as presented our backup materials. I'll second.

Okay. Now, the minutes are open. So, if there are any corrections, additions, any changes to the minutes as presented, now would be the time to go through those. Yeah, I didn't have any uh edits to the the meeting minutes. I just wanted us to talk about any updates that we may have heard about those items that were discussed. 5.1, for example, request to build on the uh East Mil Street. Um, so this was what almost two months ago. So, I wasn't sure if there's any updates to to share. Uh, why don't we discuss that in old business? Fair enough.

Okay. Um, anything else regarding the minutes themselves? No. Okay. All those in favor of approving the minutes as presented, please indicate by saying I. I. I. Opposed. Motions passed and the minutes are approved. The next item on our agenda, moving right in, Chris, it's old business. So, we we can talk about uh anything. We can even talk about it before we get to item 3.1, which I think is certainly proper. So, go right ahead, Chris.

Yeah. So, my my question is, anyone here on the on the board have any heard of any updates or Jim has any updates on these things that were talked about request to build at East Mil Street, etc.? What do you got on East Mil Street on in front of me? Uh East Mil Street 18 and 20. Okay. Uh Ron presented a slide about people trying to build in the location of the old grain elevator property zone B2. B2. Yes. Uh we got a fellow Ron was working with just to get some idea what he's going to build and it's basically like a personal storage for himself. Yeah, I don't think you were at that meeting, were you?

But but he hasn't come back in and filed anything. He's got his permits and everything. That's a B2. It's zone for what he's doing. His use is correct. So, he's allowed to Okay. So, he doesn't need anything from the plan commission. Yeah. You know, Ron kind of guided we wanted to make sure he wasn't renting it out. Uh he's paving in the parking lot, things like that. little better than what they have at uh depot and mill. You know, the storage down here with the trucks and the gravel drives. We just didn't want it to be like that. Okay. So, the work has progressed since the last meeting. He's come in and ask for you for permits quite a bit. So, yeah.

Then there was a code review 5.2 including sidewalk, sprinklers, basketball goals, signage. Ronley presented suggestions for updating the current code. I don't think anything's happened on that. Okay. Is that something we want to keep on our radar screen? I would I don't know that we're ready tonight to do anything on that, but um

I think what Ron's intent was at that time was to go review some of the old codes and see if any of them needed updated. I think similar to what Jenny and and Chief have been doing with some of our ordinances to see if there's any that are out of line. I think Ryan, you you had looked into this a little bit. Yeah. And I'd presented some ideas. Yeah. Uh did I ever send those to you, Zach? No, not that. But you may have, not that I recall, but I think it was sprinklers, basketball goal signage, sidewalks. Um and you guys had done some work on that, you and Ron at the time, but Well, yeah, I I I'd uh

that was again two months ago. Yeah, I talked to Ron and let him know I was going to present that to everybody and I think I gave everybody a handout. Um I don't I don't think it went any further though. It was something we talked about. Maybe we all thought it was uh worth looking into and I don't think it ever went anywhere. So maybe that's something that we need to bring up at the next meeting. Put that under um old continued old business. And uh if I still have my handout, which I I'll check my typewriter, see if it's still in there. See if it's saved on the typewriter. Yeah, see if I saved on the typewriter. I should have that still. So, does that is that an agenda for plan commission or that for the town council? Uh the plan commission.

Okay. And then you mentioned you'd ask Zach if you'd sent. Is that is that

Yeah, I I thought I'd gave everyone a handout uh regarding uh you know sidewalks. You know, for the first year the typically the HOAs um are in charge of the side or the homeowners in charge of the sidewalk and then the HOA takes it over. Um you know, things like that. You know, basketball goals need to be maintained in a neat, orderly manner. there are no irrigation systems uh within the rideway cuz I know there's been some sprinkler systems uh being put in between the back of the sidewalk and the street and if we ever have to do any road maintenance in that area uh that becomes problematic and then um you know the town doesn't need any more sidewalks to to maintain or take care of. So realistically it should be up to the HOA to to maintain those and make sure they're ADA compliant. Um this is something that we we do in the county um responsibility of the the HOA and stuff and especially with the size of the subdivisions. It's just not something that uh that we need to that the town needs to fund. So these are all things I brought up. I I'll see if I can find that. Okay. I think the sidewalks is the ordinance that has to do with the subdivision control plan, right?

Yeah. It would be in the covenants of the the neighborhood when they submit the plaque, right? Yeah. It would be in those covenants that uh or covenants that um that after the first year, then you know the the homeowner's responsible for it the first year, you build a house. That's just the way it goes. You build a house, you pay for the sidewalk out front,

right? And then after that, the HOA is responsible for maintaining the sidewalks if they get cracked, broken. Um, or, you know, if you get a rightaway permit to to do work in your yard and you have a contractor that comes in and drives across a sidewalk and bust it, then then it would be up to the homeowner uh to fix that. That way, the town's not out repairing sidewalks. like, you know, if somebody in Copperstone gets something done in their backyard and they drive a Bobcat over it, we don't feel like we should have to, you know, my tax money shouldn't go to pay for their care. So,

that I don't think everybody's that the town shouldn't take on that burden anymore in the future. We need to delegate that to the to the neighborhoods that get built. And if we put that in the covenants, I think we can handle that. when I think you what you had marked up at the last meeting was either something from the subdivision control plan ordinance or some other part of the ordinance I believe. Yeah, I had taken I don't have those notes with me but

I had taken um uh context out of some of the research that I had done on the county level pulled some of that verbiage out and and changed some of that verbiage to fit the town. So that's kind of what I did with the basketball goals, sidewalk maintenance, and the irrigation stuff. So, it's copy and paste really. I mean, no reason to reinvent the wheel. Uh, so I'll put that under uh we'll do that under old business for the next meeting for sure and see if we can't get something finalized on that. Okay. The next thing on here was axe heads expansion. We heard anything else? Okay.

Potential barn conversion. I don't think I think that was the the building uh east west of town. Oh, that's right across the street. Oh, it is. Okay. That's he's converting that it's a R3 which is rental. He's converting that into two rentals. Is that kind of the same thing that that's it's zoned? It's Yeah. Okay. It's got an architect working on the building. That's progressing. It's going to be a big improvement for that barn as well. So it'll make the main street look better even, right? Yeah. Make that void spot look better down that street. Okay. Housing addition annexation. I That's just So it's kind of a standy thing, right?

Stand. Yeah. And then which is probably why these ordinances that we're going to talk the one we're going to talk about here and the one that we just talked about are there's some urgency there because we want to get those architectural standards in place. Yeah. before anything came in front of us. Again, I think that that dubtales perfectly into item 3.1 on our agenda and that is discussion regarding the architectural committee. Um so I'll just open the floor regarding that. Sure.

So this is going to be just for discussion tonight. No, if a public hearing was not noticed, so that will be at the next meeting. What we all what we need to do tonight is establish a date for the public hearing and um tonight's uh discussion can be um any amendments that you see fit. Um of course all of you were at the town council meeting um and I made I did make the recommended amendments to this one. So, if there are any further amendments, discussion, addition, uh, councelor Reid is here as well. Bear with me. I'm trying to find.

So, we couldn't make those amendments tonight. We would have to We could just discuss those and then we would have to have the public hearing then come back then make the amendments. Correct. Adopt it. Yeah. We're not ready to adopt it, but we can talk. We can certainly discuss it.

Yeah. Awesome. So, and I know just historically there's been a lot of interest whether it's the plan commission itself or creating a committee. But we need criteria so that when a developer comes in or a potential uh builder of a home so we can give them something that talks about setbacks, lot size. um density, parking requirements, uh any other requirements that we deem appropriate requirements,

all of the architect landscaping requirements. Um you know, those are things that many municipalities already have that in place so that you know you don't run into a situation where somebody comes in with a site plan that most people would look at and not be in favor of. So you've set minimums um you know and it's it's not binding but at least it's telling them this is what we want to see. Gives us more of a leg to stand on.

Absolutely. A and to me the biggest advantage is just letting people know in advance what's expected. And within that same criteria, you can outline things that you would not allow. So that's something else. If we create an architectural review committee, you know, looking at the standards, there may be certain building materials um or certain types of structures, whatever. There may be things that you want to specifically say these are not allowed in town limits, whatever that is, alligator pits or whatever. May I say something, Zach?

How does that fall into the Fair Housing Act? Is it is that relative, you know, when you try to zone and I kind of know where it's going, but how do you be careful because you're walking kind of a rope there, you get into trouble. Sure. As far as like prohibiting certain um housing within certain areas, um that's a a complicated and loaded question. Um,

yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I can answer that just right off the top of my head at this moment, but it's something we do need to pay attention to as we move forward with this. And um as well as um it it it well it kind of dubtales my next point is is it your all's view or um desire to give this architectural review committee teeth or enforcement um capabilities or is it purely a vehicle to um recommend things to the plan the plan commission and you all be the so-called enforcers of of town standards.

I I guess I would see as we look at the roles and responsibilities here, which Zach, you've added the first one that I was bringing up last at the last meeting to establish standards, regulations, commitments, and provide recommendations to bank mission. So that's creating Well, that I think that's the language I said last at the last meeting. number one thing this group needs to do is create the standards, right? And then make recommendations to the plan commission. Plan commission quote unquote enforces those standards. Yeah. And I think that having the architectural review committee being advisory

is the intent and then it is ultimately up to the plan commission. Um, you know, if for whatever reason the plan commission disagreed with the architectural review committee, I can't imagine that they would, but if they did, then I would think that the plan commission should be able to to trump that. Yeah, absolutely. It is have to be that way. Sure. Or should be that way. So, I think does that help, Zach?

That does. Yes. because there are other municipalities that have architectural review committees, for lack of a better better term, that that do um essentially enforce standards separate from the plan commission. So that would seem to me delegating their responsibility, right? Which is not what Yeah. Well, and you want to do

so back to Jim your your question, Lynch, and I'm just this is 100% arbitrary. I'm not saying this is but just a scenario. Let's say that the architectural review committee says that the only fencing that is allowed in a front yard is a vinyl or a wood picket fence or or something and specifically said you can't have a chain link fence in your front yard. We don't allow fences in the front yard. See the committee is already one step ahead. That's why that's why he's using an

a hypothetical. Let's say your backyard, you wanted to put up a chain link fence and say the architectural review committee wanted to say it could be no more than 5T or 6 feet or whatever. I don't think you're getting into any fair housing issues. You you definitely are getting into pricing issues. Those could be delegated back to the the builder itself. Those could be key, you know, components to say, you know, this is kind of what we want. what we're saying and then they put it in their bylaws there.

And it's like anything that's set. If somebody were to come in with a compelling reason to say, "Here's why I need an 8ft fence or a 10-ft fence or whatever, then so be it." But just coming up with the criteria, it lets people know upfront. Yeah.

Don't bring us a subdivision that has a 12T setback between your front door and the sidewalk. I I think we've seen something close to that because you can't park two cars and then that means all cars there'll be many cars on the street and when you have cars parked on both sides of the street then you can't get a fire truck through the street. So I mean that's exactly the kind of standards that we want to identify um so that there is no question and then a developer right up front they can look at the size of an of a parcel it's 80 acres and based on these criteria and these setbacks this is how many homes or lots I can get and I'm either willing to invest or I'm not because we had a scenario where a developer said it's take it or leave it. I won't change anything and thank goodness we said leave it because it it was not a safe design. But that's what this committee should be doing is coming up with those criteria.

Agree. So, so Zach, you you mentioned that you made the updates from the town council meeting and I know that the first one here was the role part one sub uh section D roles and responsibilities. Correct. What other what else was updated from there was a mention of uh where it was now but um the use of the word shelters uh we removed to be um more inclusive of any building as a whole within the town. So I think I think there was some libing language uh structures of structures as well.

So the term and so I I removed I believe I removed some language so that the architectural review committee would have um oversight over anything within the town not just what whatever the word structure was. Yes. And also on subsection D roles and responsibilities uh one it was uh we had review applications for their compatibility with all applicable standards regulations and commitments. That's what was and you changed it to establish standards regulations and commitments and provide recommendations to the planning commission. Correct. So yes, because there were no standards to go by

and as I understand the process and Zach, please help me if I'm wrong that our next step we need to schedule a meeting where we have a public hearing. Correct. So that's the next step because ultimately we want to make sure procedurally we go through the right steps to create the committee. Correct. Then the committee can be appointed, established, and start preparing the standards and the things that we want them to do.

Exactly. Yeah. Uh got to have a public hearing. Um and then it can go back to the town council. It can still be amended at that time and then adopted. Um and it it as as soon as it's adopted, it it will take effect within the ordinance. So um it's kind of Okay. So, in the meantime, we we can read over this information and then wait for the public hearing and we can take public input on this as well. Correct. Then we can have another meeting and make amendments and the recommendation back to the town council because we'll want public input on this too because

absolutely. And can I request that in the notice that we direct people to our website so that we put the proposed ordinance on the website so that people can see the same thing that we're looking at. I mean, I don't want to publish it newspaper, but at least make it available and that way it'll make for much more meaningful public input. Sure. And I I believe most of those notices will have language saying that the proposed ordinance is on file at at town hall. So yes, they can stop in it and available on our website. Well, yeah, I think yeah, I think you say it's on file here and also available. Most people probably want to check it on the website and it's easier to do so.

Yeah, some people still like to come in. They're welcome. Right. Exactly. We want them to. Right. Absolutely. So, okay. So, let's talk about scheduling the next meeting. Um, if if I may. No, absolutely. Just one there's a there's a typo here, Zach. Under roles responsibility section D, it's one, two, three, and the five. Is that I mean, if we just change that to four right now, we don't we can do that. Yeah, that ready for the next meeting.

Yeah, fair enough. to get this going. Do we want to um schedule a public hearing for August 6th before the next town council meeting? There's no other commissions that are um meeting at that time. So, we could set it for 6:30 on the 6th the 6 and make it 6:30 instead of six. There's no other no other meeting. So, I don't think And well, how about if we Yeah, because we'll have the public hearing during that meeting. Is that correct, Zach?

That's correct. Yeah. You open it, gavl open, and then gavl it closed if no one says anything. Okay. So, it goes longer. We can make it six if we want. At that point, we're talking 30 minutes, but Right. I mean, worst case, the town council meeting just gets delayed. Okay. Well, and the good thing other than it might even if the town council meeting did start late, you can always start late. You can't start early. So, but if we make it six, then at least I don't care. I'll be here either way. So, you tell me what folks prefer.

Could either way. I don't I've been wrong before, but I don't know that we'll have a ton of turnout of the architectural review committee, but I've been wrong before. Say it might affect their sewer roads, right? Nobody's saying that. Nobody is saying that. There's no food truck discussions. Okay, let's do 6:30. 6:30. Okay. So, let's make a I'll make a motion that we schedule a meeting during which we'll have the public hearing for August the 6th at 6:30 p.m. and request that notice be put out so that we can have that public hearing.

I'll second that motion. And does that need to go in the newspapers? It is. And I'll draft that and get that to you. Yep. Do we have discussion now? Yes, absolutely. Is a 10day notice. Is that right? in 10 days, but we have to get it from the newspaper. Yes. So, uh the And it doesn't go every day. That's correct. The uh Daily Reporters, the Greenfield uh Daily Reporter, they um publish on Wednesdays uh and Saturday

and and Saturdays. Correct. That um for a Wednesday publication, uh the notice will be due this Friday by or Friday by 5:00 PM. So, that leaves plenty of time for um a 10-day notice. So I I'll have that published uh or sent to the Greenfield reporter by Friday. Okay. And you're doing you're sending to the reporter, correct? Perfect. So there's no logistics they have to do then and and post it. Advertise and post it here. We'll take care of the publication. You'll see. So you have Jenny. So she's I can cool. Yeah. Yeah. If you CC Jenny, that make me feel good. So then she knows. All right. Nailed it. Okay. discussion. Perfect. No further discussion.

Set up another meeting. Uh, new business. Yes. Oh, yeah. We need a vote. Oh, thank you very much. We had a motion, a second. We had a lot of discussion. All those in favor of the motion having that meeting on August the 6, please indicate by saying I. I. I. Okay. We will have a meeting August the 6th at 6:30. Um, Ryan, you're saying we need to schedule another meeting. We we need to schedule schedule another meeting before the 19th because the one that's set right now is what the October 16th or something, right? So that's the only thing that's scheduled.

Okay. So we need another meeting in August uh before the 19th. Yes. So what about a week from the 6th, which would be the 13th? Does that happen? Does that work for everybody? Why do we need this one? Sorry, clarify. Um, we may need to fill a spot to Yeah. the the composition of the plan commission. We may need to take action.

Timeline wise, the 19th is the deadline. So, we need we need to do that before possibly. Can we need a meeting to fill that spot? Can we need Yeah. Isn't that appointed? Number one. Number two, we do that on the sixth actually because it's correct. Well, depending on this handy dandy handout that somebody whose name rhymes with well, and I could be wrong about that. I don't see president. This should be a president of town council. So, there may be action on that. Um, there won't be.

So, so let me ask if there's a position to be filled, who is the body that fills it? Okay, that's a president one. So, the council will make that determination, not us. So, we don't need a we don't need a a meeting for that. So, the only thing we need a meeting for is the follow up on the public hearing. Correct. to update the ordinance for the architectural committee. Correct. Right. Is that how you read it? Yeah. That's correct. Which we could do on the 20th, right? Maybe right before the Good. I like that.

Let's do it. Yep. I'll make a motion that we have schedule a plan commission meeting for August 20th at 6:30. I'll second. Is there any discussion? All those in favor, please indicate by saying I. I. I. Okay, great. I am not aware of any other items, but certainly open the floor. If anybody has anything else they'd like to discuss, now would be the perfect time to do so.

The only thing I'd like to say is the so the August 20th meeting now has an agenda to follow up on the ordinance for the architecture committee. And then we're going to have old business on the on the commit on the agenda a standing uh agenda item for the signage and the basketball goals and on that on that ordinance for that that discussion. Yeah, we can discuss it here. Yeah. So though so we have we'll have two things to talk about on the 20th if I may. Kind of exciting, isn't it? The August 6th meeting is now moved to August 20th. Is that what No, no, no. The August 6th meeting is the public hearing.

So after that, there's you don't have to follow up on any part of the of the ordinance change. It goes to the town council then. So you just have one you just have one part in this. So after after the public hearing if you approve after the public hearing goes to the town council it doesn't come back to the to the so we have discussion and and update this and then we approve it have motions and approval the same meeting as as the Yes. And then it then it's to the town council for final approval. Okay. And then that would be have to be updated by you or somebody before it goes to the council. Correct. Per our discussion. Correct. Okay. I'll make a motion that we cancel the plan meeting on August 20th at 6:30 p.m. I'll you go a second.

I'll second. Okay. Is there any discussion on that motion? All those in favor of cancelling the August 20th meeting, please indicate by saying I. I. Perfect. Okay. Do we have a motion to adjurnn? I'll make a motion to adjourn. I'll second it. Okay. All those in favor of adjourning, please indicate by saying I. I. We are adjourned. Thank you.