City Council - Regular Meeting

Thank you, Jennifer. Welcome everyone to Centerville City Council meeting being held tonight uh here at Centerville City Hall on February 17th. Uh we welcome uh everybody is in attendance and welcome those that are joining uh online as well too. Uh we're grateful that you're all here. Grateful that the council members are here and this we have staff here as well too. Um it's a pretty fun time of year. Uh my day has been spent doing legislative stuff for uh the city, but uh I didn't make my office for a couple hours, but we'll we'll see if we can do do both of them. But uh and uh we had other staff involved as well too today doing that sort of stuff. There's always things that affect uh cities and towns going on the legislature as well as the rest of you and your professions and what's going on as well too. So, it's a crazy time. Uh we let's see if we can do business tonight by seeing if we have a a council present. So, let's do a roll call starting with Councilman Mikum.

Mikum present. Banger present. Cayman present. Hurst present. Plumber present. All five present. and we thank you all for being here uh tonight. Uh we're excited about what we have on our agenda, but uh before we get to the agenda, let's uh do a legislative prayer or thought from Councilman Brian Plameumber.

Thank you, Mayor. I'll just uh say a prayer to start us off. Thank you. Our Father in heaven, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to serve the people of Centerville, to do the things that are good for this city. Thank you for the freedom that we share in this country and thank you for the people that serve this community, our state, and our nation. Please bless them with wisdom and guidance as they make decisions that affect all of us. Please, we're grateful for the first responders and please bless them with safety and and security as they do their and perform their jobs. Please bless us as we continue on tonight to work together, be civil with each other, and do the best that we can for the people of our community. And we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Amen. Thank you, Councilman Bl. All right. If you'd all rise with me and repeat the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Sounds like we had a dog doing the pledge with us. That's wonderful. Well, we're excited. Uh the first uh well, let's do the open session first before we do our presentation. So uh this open session is something that we allow members of the public to uh to comment about things that may be on their mind. Uh we'd like you to keep your comments at two to three minutes. Um there's many times ideas come from these open sessions which we can entertain later. uh we under requirement that we we have to anything uh that we discuss in detail that the public need needs to know about it uh in advance. So that's why we we we take take things under consideration and uh we'll either get back to you personally or we'll bring it up at council meeting. But that's what the open session is for. We don't have any public hearing uh items tonight. That's I would tell you if we had public hearing items that you didn't need to comment on those right now. So, but we don't. So, that open session is available. Uh, anybody that would like to come to the podium, just uh state your name and where you're from and uh for the record and that would be great. So, that's now available. Hi, my name is TJ Riley and my wife Talia Riley. Um, the reason why I want to come here tonight is um to Well, I actually have some stuff printed out. Would you like it right now or after? Okay,

you want to pass it out now or you want to wait till after? Here, you can pass it out now. Okay. So, while she's passing out, I'll go this quarter and we'll pass it then.

Um, I'll just kind of go over a little bit of this real quick. So, we've um lived in Centerville for quite a few years. We've raised our family here and we have four kids. Um and it's kind of coming to this time that we need to think about where uh you know, where we want to be in the next years with uh growing family and um seeing what our options are. So, we live at 84 West Chase Lane. Um we have an acre of land there. is just barely shy of it. And um we're trying to come to you guys today to talk about um looking at and changing the ordinance to allow detached ADUs uh in the city. And I'll just I have about a 11 key talking points I'd like to touch on. So, I'll start by um allowing ad allowing detached ADUs would provide an additional strategy for the city to meet the state requirements for addressing moderate income housing. The city's moderate income plan has already listed in objective 6.B that the city should consider allowing external detached ADUs as part of the implementation with phase one in 2026. Number two, uh North Lake Code. I I'll just stop right there really quick. So, I work for North Salt Lake. I worked there for 23 years and I understand probably a little bit more than than just the average um resident and I've talked to our our uh planning and zoning people and and got a little information. So, I'd like to share that with you as well. Um so, the North Salt Lake City Code from 2018 allowed internal and external ADUs. In seven years, 62 internal ADUs have been permitted. Of those 34 were basement apartments that

had existed for years with no building permit. Those 34 units are added into the census address addresses uh units so the population can be accurately accounted. Only four UDU ADUs have been built. Out of 8,468 dwelling units, there are a total of 68 ADUs, which is 07 of the total housing units, averaging about eight units per year, external ADUs accounted for. Number three, a uh Centerville has 5,786 housing units and would likely uh to add ADUs at a similar or lower rate, even matching the NSL rate at 0.1 per year. Uh it would amount to only five to six units per year, and most of those would be basement units allowed. External ADUs would likely occur at a rate of one per year. External ADUs cost on the uh on average of 180 thou or 100 let's see sorry 180 uh,000. So very few property owners um are in position to afford to build an ADU and even fewer want to be landlords. Uh number five, uh external ADUs allow alternative housing options for aging parents that are not ready for assisted living but can be benefited being closer to family as well as providing opportunities for adult children. Um so a little bit um I'm a little bit more sensitive to this situation because I'm an only child and I have u two parents that are getting older. Um my dad's 78 years old and has dementia. So, at some point I I I'm going to take care of my mom and um this would allow

me to have her close to me um while, you know, she gets older and and is her needs are going to be uh I need to help her more and so it's it's important for that regard as well. Um uh number six, ADUs increase property values to about 35% on average. Um, number seven, allowing external ADUs can save water. A property owner with an acre lot irrigates about 75% or more of the property. Removing those areas from active irrigation can reduce overall water consumption and waste. Number eight, allowing external ADUs is a fairness issue related to property rights. Other property owners that have been permitted divide their properties into a quarter acre or even smaller lots enjoy the full value of the property. But property owners with narrow lots that are very deep and land and are landlocked from enjoying the same benefit or at least of some level if not the full benefit. The only way for them to enjoy the same benefit and rights of their neighbors is to wait for a larger property owner to sell and combine the rear parts of the lots into a subdivision. new infrastructure to be maintained by the city would would put on the public works. Snow plowing, repairing asphalt, maintaining water, sewer lines, and storm drainage. An external ADUs allows a property right to be exercised with little or no impact services provided by the city. Number nine, allowing ADUs allows a property owner to keep their property affordable by providing rental income. Number 10. While the state code already requires cities to allow internal ADUs by right, the legislature may in the future require external ADUs as well, it's better for the city to determine the rules for external ADUs rather than let the state legislature decide what rules for the city should be. Controls that to

be written into the code could be um allowed. Uh allowing ADUs can mitigate impacts on neighboring property owners. Um owner occupancy of the primary accessory unit. Setbacks in the side and rear property lines. Additional off- streetet parking. Limit of size relation to lot size. Height limitations. Orientation of accessory unit and privacy fencing. Yard coverage and landscaping. 11. The last one. Um there are at least eight homes in the city located on flag lots flag lots which are no longer permitted. Um, these are beautiful homes with families that add to the community community and neighborhoods where they are located. The impacts on neighboring properties is minimal and could be argued the impacts are lessened as the land without a home could be overgrown and weedridden at one extreme or a manicured landscape using valuable water resources. An ADU would function no differently than a flag lot except that the owner of both units would be the same family with the owner occupancy requirement. This provides increased oversight of maintenance of the property and by someone who has invested in the success of Centerville City and who cares about the neighborhood. So, I want to take time to to appreciate or to let you know I appreciate um you taking the time and and uh listening. Hopefully, you'll really consider it. I think it's it's needed. I think uh with the housing crisis we're all in and the cost of homes, it's a viable option for cities to really consider this. Um and I think it would benefit the city and uh its residents. I also feel like in all reality this is going to be such a minimal impact uh for the city and the fact of not many

people have the even the size of lot that they can do something like this and for us we have an acre lot that I just want to use my land to build the home that I want to kind of build my forever home and uh and without tearing down the home that I've raised my family in. Um, so I I'd really appreciate if you guys take this in consideration and and thank you for your time tonight. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I don't know that I will entertain this because they're my neighbors and I like them living where they're at right now, but and we do love our new our new area.

Um, this information is fabulous. Obviously, as I said, it's not something that we can get into big discussion about tonight uh because of the need to let residents know, but it's obviously something that could be put on the agenda. And I know with the housing

situation in uh Utah that we we need to address these issues. So, for me, it's a priority and hopefully for the council, it will be as well, too. There's one sentence you put in there. is better for the city to determine the rules for external ADUs rather than let the state legisure decide what the rules for the city should be. We're all in agreement with there and we don't know that we'll stop the legislature from deciding anyway, but maybe we can be proactive on it first. So, so um uh any quick questions without

very well done. Excellent presentation. Great points for us to address. And we do have the general plan which we're currently in the process of of uh updating and this will be very helpful for us to consider adjustments there. Thank you. Thanks for your time. I just want to say Centerville is our home. We've been here for a lot of years and we love it and we've been looking for houses to leave. I just I don't want to leave Centerville and so we're really grateful for for you guys considering that. Thank you so much. And mayor, they lived in my neighborhood before yours. I know they didn't because we because we talked about we'll take them back. So thank you uh others for the open session.

All right. If not we will go to our uh presentation. Uh we're excited about this. Uh we have a recognition of a retirement for Debbie Harvey and uh we're going to turn over the chief. All right, Debbie, come on up. Okay. So today I've been uh pondering on school crossing guards and uh their importance and the difficulty in finding quality crossing guards that uh you know have a long lot of longevity to them and um and it got me thinking about as well about the nobility of of the work and the kind of person it takes to go out, you know, morning and afternoon and literally place themselves between the children and the cars and do so without much recognition at all. Right. because you're you're only interacting for the most part with kids and often drivers and I was I was going to say oftentimes frustrated drivers who who u who have placed higher importance on their you know their their commute than the safety of children and so yeah this nobility of of being a crossing guard and just um the selfness selflessness of it. So, um Debbie has been with us since um 2014, 2014ish.

I would say around there.

And um and she's been working uh working the corner at Parish in Maine for for a good dozen, you know, 10 years. And um did that one for Robin's sake. Anyway, um no, and it it um and I just u want to you to reflect back to, you know, the time you've had. And one of the things that struck me is is is you have the opportunity to for for many of these children is to to give them their first good morning, you know, the first have a good day and kind of their first kind of send them off on onto school. Didn't know. So um yeah, I I thank you for for all your years of spending, you know, your time sacrificing yourself at times for the for the sake of the children.

And so we've uh put mounted a little bit of uh so we got a certificate here recognition along with one of our shoulder patches and and one of our challenge coins. And uh there's four characteristics we have on a challenge coin around the outside. It's a guardians, honor, character, and nobility. So just want to highlight that nobility part today with you. Thank you. That's beautiful. Yes. So um while we have we everyone's here for you. This is amazing. Okay. So I I I think we need to get a few pictures. Um

is that okay? For sure. You bet you. And if I didn't mention she's she's retiring. I think I may have I should have started with that, but it was implied and maybe you caught on to that. Okay, here you go. I think we start with the council and then we do a mob scene. People. Okay, let's come on up here. Okay, I get it. All right, council. You want to come up? We'll do council first and then

Okay, ready. One, two, three. Perfect. Okay, ready? One, two, three. Perfect. You

want your family? She's 12.

I'm 15. Everybody ready? One, two, three. I was supposed to send you.

Thank you. The brand. The brand.

I said, "Bob, how'd you get my name?" She says, "I got bored looking in the baby name bucket." Do you want me to do it really quick? Yeah. Yes. of the branch. Come back in. Yeah, just make them come back. Oh, do I need to move again? Am I looking at you? I was getting Debbie back up because uh I wanted to keep the attendance throughout the meeting. No, what I had asked her to do and she was willing to do it is tell us why she got into it and an experience or two that that was a highlight for her.

Well, when I first moved to Centerville 30 years ago, I was in dentistry and I did that for many, many years. And then when I decided to retire from that, I was like, what am I going to do?

I I mean, I'm on Festival of Trees and I've done that for 22 years and it's my first love. But then I asked my daughter who was a crossing guard for Centerville, "What should I do?" And she goes, "Mom, come be a crossing guard. You're have summers off, holidays off, weekends off." And I'm like, "Oh, okay. I will do that." And so then I became a crossing guard. And I was I was at Centerville and then I was at GDP and then I started working the corner. And it was just um so rewarding to be able to help the kids get to school safely because if you know the corner over by Wells Fargo, it's a nightmare because people just don't stop. And many times I could have sat on a car, they got that close to me, but I would rather be me than the kids. And so, um, I really hope that this program will continue and that Louisa is amazing to help with crossing guards. She's our hero. Um, she's amazing. So things that have happened to me over the years, um I think more than anything is when I see these little kids out and about and they don't know my name, but they know I'm the crossing guard and they will say hi to the crossing guard and that's so rewarding to me. But now I'm ready to move on and we're going to travel and do festival of trees.

Wonderful. Still, but thank you. It's been a wonderful opportunity. Wonderful. Thanks again.

Councilwoman Hurst leaned to me and said she sent her kids for 20 years uh with various crossing guards and she was so grateful to it that I I daughter was one of them that helped my kids cross.

Thanks. Thank you, Chief. And thankful uh to the Harvey family. Okay, let's move on to the rest of our agenda agenda. Let me get my screen back up here. All right. So the first item on our agenda on business item uh is discussion on the cemetery update. Um so in establishing our discussion on this tonight uh I want to point out two things. Uh there's there's there's going to be the discussion of what we have done in regards to cemetery and what the what we can discuss with the public as far as the bond and as far as some of the options we have pursued. Uh and then there'll be another discussion which uh we will go into at the end of the meeting a close session to discuss uh and update uh council members about various properties that uh we have looked at uh for the cemetery and that's something that uh under law that we can go into discussion uh over acquisition of potential properties. So I just would ask the council members as far as discussion of of those certain properties that uh we've looked to purchase that we will discuss those in in the close session. So my introduction to this may be a little bit longer than I normally introduce things. In your packet you have quite a bit of information uh as I went through it. you know, you'd have all the documents there

for the bond, um, that sort of thing. I went down and found something that I'd put together. I couldn't believe that, uh, this was dated, uh, Mayor Wilson, additional cemetery space information on 101, 2020. Um, so that's been a few years, but I was elected in late 2017. And, uh, so I started my term in January of 218. And starting early in 218, these are some things that that I and various council members did. Uh I met with the mortuary to talk about doing a joint venture. They were expanding their mortuary operations and didn't uh have the money to spend at that time to doing a joint operation. I originally met and then I brought in Councilman Ins and Bruce Cox to have discussions with the Fruit Heights city manager and their cemetery committee about a joint venture on cemetery space in their city. They had plans and concepts drawn and written up. Fruit Heights determined that they didn't want to proceed with it at that time. Also, interest in that concept was divided uh by the Centerville City Council. I got from our map department all land parcels that had five plus acre acres. I engaged one of our better known residents to contact some of the owners of parcels. Of the three or four that he contacted, they wanted to use their property personally or develop it for the allowed purposes on these parcels. I also contacted many of those property owners about the availability of their property and receive much of the same responses. Uh in the estate planning world, some estates benefit for income tax and estate tax purposes by gifting property and especially appreciated property. A letter was sent out to these property owners signed by myself and all the city council members at the time about the gifting of their properties uh properties for cemetery purposes. One owner had some interest in that but was hopeful that something else could be done with other properties they owned. Uh I formed a cemetery exploratory group

with a dozen or so resident staff and two of the city council in around November 19 uh to discuss. uh from that uh one I did from that group was the concept of the LDS church selling their ball fields as this was happening in some areas of the world. Centerville has two such properties in our city. I contacted the LDS church real estate department and at this time neither of those properties were for sale. They put a note on those two properties that if they were ever for sale that's that Centerville would have interest in them. Another idea was to do something such as Fruit Heights did and obtain some federal land. I had Congressman Stewart's office ready to move on that we we needed to identify the land. The problem with this concept is that the federal land is on the east hillside and in many areas between where developed land presently ends and the federal land is privately owned land. We were presently exploring the option of access through land owned by Bountiful to some federally owned land. And then uh I also contacted the farming city mayor as they were running tighter on cemetery space about a joint venture with him. he got back to me and it appeared that there was not been interest on from them on doing that presently. And then uh since that time uh uh the bond was passed in uh November of 2021 uh to allow the city to spend up to uh $7 million on uh on cemetery uh um cemetery pursuit. That was a vote by this residents to allow the council to uh search for that and the council has done that very diligently through like I said through identifying various properties and some other ideas. Uh now

about a year ago uh I was contacted uh by Tyler Russen and uh he and his uh father-in-law met with me on a couple of occasions and I brought in two council people uh uh um Councilman Summer Hayes and Councilwoman Hurst about a discussion about some development of property uh uh up on our 160 acres that we own on the hillside. side and that was later brought to the council in a work session uh if you recall council members about uh and also brought to staff about that possibility and that was discussed extensively uh at the time uh it did not appear and uh I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth but it did not appear that there was interest in necessarily pursuing that that we wanted to potentially pursue to other properties uh for purchase which like I said we we'll discuss those in a in a uh close session and then the last part of my note here was just some of the some of the things that residents commented on allowed portion existing cemetery for extremely small spots for cremation. Uh we we've done have done uh a couple of cremation spots at two of our cemeteries or two of our parks uh at Island View Park and at our cemetery. Guess this cemetery is a part too. Uh somebody asked about city owned property on the hillside. Uh some people said no cemetery just facilitates particular custom. Cremation in Utah is not keeping with other states. Lake View Memorial Park in Bano has 40 acres many of which are undeveloped. creation of a cemetery in some of our existing park space. No new cemetery space and layer of dirt over existing cemetery space there

thereby going too deep. Um so have I covered everything that uh some of you uh not old council members but veteran council members. Uh have I missed anything that we've talked about in in my time? And maybe Councilwoman Mika, maybe you had something uh that you guys discussed before my time that I'm missing as well too that may be in these notes as well too. But that's a that's my long introduction to uh what's happened so far in my time with uh potential additional cemetery space. So I did I see a hand from you or or from Robin at all or Councilman Mikum? So that's my introductions. Councilman Banger,

I'm the new council member, so I was not in on those discussions. Mayor, could you just clarify? I I believe from what I read, it sounded like in consideration of the property the city owns on the hillside that there was extensive discussion about it. There was. And and you indicated that there wasn't interest to to move forward. I thought it sounded like there was interest to explore some some geotechnical aspects of that property to see about the viability of the soils to accommodate it. We did not give the city engineer approval to do that. Am I right or wrong? Right. Yeah. Right.

We did talk about that, but we didn't give approval.

We talked about it, but we didn't there were too many other issues that we decided we didn't want to waste that money on. So, so it was discussed in that work session but was discussed uh uh to not move forward and uh I think that our city engineer Kevin Campbell uh understood that and and so he did not proceed forward but it sounds like that's council council agreed on uh that's what they decided to do at the time. So um so that's uh that hopefully that answers that question. Sounds like the council members uh four or five of them were here at that meeting. Only Councilman Summers who's uh you took his place was not here at that meeting, but that was the that was the the thought on that. Uh obviously there was the the hope that maybe some properties would come available in the future and we'll discuss some of those properties. Councilwoman Hurst.

Um I was just going to say I believe we talked about that in a work session. There were some other and I don't know if you listen to that. It sounds like you're familiar with um read what was in a report.

Okay. Yeah. Um the some of it was, you know, just the expense of the road up there to have it improved and be able to access that property was pretty pretty incredible. I don't remember details now. Maybe Kevin could. Well, public works came and talked to us about trying to keep the snow and things off of that road for the funerals. And the other thing that was a concern was if we did put a road up there, we may we had citizens that were concerned that we could be encouraging a developer to want to go up there if we put roads in and infrastructure in there. And we've got to get the water up there, too. So, it just seemed like it was more money than what we could.

And there's I think there was some concern about the mixed uses that are already occurring up there and how the how that worked with a cemetery as well. Um, we currently have a kind of an ATV type bowl and the gun range. Yeah. Hiking trails. um what additional facilities need to be up there if we have, you know, more people going up there. I'm not I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't still investigate that. But I'm just telling you what some of the other pieces were that

I'd just like to say I've had some extensive conversation with several people and during a campaign and uh there is a tremendous amount of interest in our city. I recognize I want the council to appreciate this. I'm the old guy here and I'm the one that amongst the population of the city that's more likely to be interested in interament space. I do want to disclose that I already am taken care of. I have my spot in our current sit cemetery and I hope to be buried next to my son up there. It wouldn't be a personal interest, but there is a lot of interest in our city.

There is there is a lot of interest. There is and we have I mean the mayor had a a board that I was on for quite a while where we met with some citizens looking at all kinds of different you know we were trying to get other people to help us brainstorm to find ways and we looked at the hillside for that. In fact we even looked at hillside up north trying to find a way in on that committee. So we we did we did both of that and then we went over towards Baniful, but in order to get into our property, we would have to have a road come from Baniful all the way over to our property. It would cost more than just buying property here in the city for the road.

That was the one that would have led from like Rocket, what they call Rocket Park. That's what I know of. It would it would have started at Rocket. No, no, not Cheese House. Cheese Park. Cheese Park. Cheese Park. Right. All right. Obviously, we own that parcel of property, so you could potentially spend money developing a road. There you go. You know, I I'm not It It's a tough one, but it doesn't mean it couldn't be done.

The economic viability of it in comparison to other property could make some sense in a lot of ways. Uh no purchase of property would be necessary. I realize I am solely one member of a five member council and I I totally understand that but I do believe there it would be to in the public's best interest and in our best interest to explore it a little further. There have been some further uh understandings and investigation into that property that might have an influence on on your opinions and and our public. Uh we do know that that over half slightly over with with the vote that transpired occurred with with those who the majority voting in favor of doing this by putting their money where their mouth is. they were willing at that time to bond up to $7 million with identified in the resolution how much that was going to cost each property owner, you know, if that if that bond passed and was was if we took a bond that way. So, uh, I think the financial end of things could could be looked at deeper to and some mitigation of some of the other pros and cons there. There would be a number of pros and cons for any property we look at to try to satisfy our needs for a cemetery. I think it would be worthwhile and advantageous to us that keep that property especially in consideration as we look at at ways to mitigate some of the concerns and ways to appreciate some of the value having a road closer up there to access

our trails. A better road access for our first responders and our firefighters to get their equipment up there in the event of a wildfire and emergency. having water available that high on the hill if we brought resources to it for a firet truck to resupply his his pump tank. Uh there there are advantages beyond the cemetery that that road extension could contribute to the well-being of our of our city. I just hope that we can can uh further discuss that as we address options for that. Well, I think it's I I I agree with a lot what of of what you've said, Councilman Bangar. I appreciate it. It is ironic though that we are tasked with this of and how important the cemetery is to so many people in the community. And yet there was a sentiment years ago that it wasn't the business of the city to bury people. And so we missed out on opportunities that were uh adjacent to the current cemetery. And so here we are tasked with a a a very difficult proposition of where to place a second cemetery. Truly, in my opinion, and I've done some driving the last few days just to kind of prospect where a cemetery would go. This truly most likely or the most uh advantageous place for the cemetery is where it's at. And I feel like we and I've proposed it a few times, but have had push back about Island View Park being the uh expansion

for the cemetery and that there would be some sort of fee or some sort of cost there because of some uh deed restrictions on that property. But I feel that um I have some concerns about what u with moving development further up the mountain uh that uh it would lend to some of those uh situations that Councilwoman Mika mentioned which are uh things that I'm um currently I I just feel that we need to not be promoting any type of development up there. Uh that would give developers a cause to think that they can uh start putting residential developments up there. And a cemetery would be something that might be that impetus for uh starting that that trend. And so I I would have some concerns. I'm not I had we didn't rule it out, but I feel like we we did put it on the back burner because the uh the report from the city engineer was a little bit um real as far as the the the quality of the soil. I think that was a and I think that we'd get the report back and it would tell us exactly what we already know that it's very sedimentary that there would be likely a a lot of fill that we would need to bring in and

but that's that's why we would need the geotechnical report because then they can provide you know some suggested options for how to mitigate potentially how that would work. I I'm not opposed to doing some geotechnical investigation. I just think along with that I'd like to see um I know we roughly um Kevin and I kind of back and napkin kind of talked about cost of the road there. There are there are some significant issues to overcome with the road. It's more than just where the property is located.

We did what Councilman Banger said. We had and I don't know exactly and I probably shouldn't say but we had so many properties we'd identified as might be an op option

and we did the pros and the cons for each one of those properties and we had several that we felt like had a lot more pros than than that did. I would say doing with the public cemetery is probably tied with people don't want the hillside touched and so those would probably be the two number one things if you went out into our community. People want a cemetery and they don't want anything higher on the hillside. So people would be very concerned if we get a road up there. We are making and another council after us. we may be saying absolutely we won't but another council may decide that that's a way for future you know and so I think people people did come out they were they were very concerned when they learned we were looking for it up there and then the people on island view were very concerned about sloughing off we took a couple of field trips up there walked it and we were concerned about it coming off but I do think in a closed meeting We could talk about some other properties that probably wouldn't be any more expensive. Even where we don't have to put a road, we may be able to acquire. So

can I can I also I I mean I think there there could be a potential discussion of most of the property in that area is either lot quite a bit of it's owned by the city but um uh I can see one private owner and then there's um like we've got Dual Creek Irrigation Company. I mean, there's a potential that we could consider like a hillside policy, you know, to protect or make sure that we protect something that I think is also just as important to many people in the community is our our residents love the hillside and they want that kind of protected. And so, is there a way to do both? I I guess I would be willing to have that discussion and see what staff could present to us as far as how do you kind of maintain that? It's kind of a treasure that we have right now. And you know, it doesn't seem like most people want to see that hillside developed now, but that's I think Robin brings up a good point that it could always change depending on what's down the road.

Find another city council. So even if we even if we pass something that we think's going to protect it, that doesn't mean that I'm not talking about passing something. I'm talking about creating some type of legacy up there that is, you know, whether that's a trail system or some other things that would help to kind of keep that how it is now. And may I may I comment? Yeah, I'm done. I'm sorry. I I I appreciate those uh those insights. It's been my perception and feeling that many residents are favorable to that, including several in that specific area.

And and I think there are some positives. There's the fact that the cemetery could be a fire barrier and a fire break uh below the fire break road could identify some of those things which is certainly in their best interest uh and would even help with their insurance rates. Okay.

And uh I I don't see it as something distracting from the beauty, the openness and the wonderment of our foothill. I am very very supportive of protecting our foothills. I and I think many residents can see that as an enhancement to to our foothill, not not a detriment, not a invitation for for development. And and again, that can happen. The developers can push that all they want to us or any other council whether there's a cemetery there or not. that is not going to be a determining factor that the council that the city can't still control and have have a bearing and a and an effect with. And might I might I offer, mayor, I don't know, there are some individuals in our audience tonight, uh, one who is a professional at at doing cemetery work and and I visited with him on the hillside. That that view, that setting, that opportunity is magnificent up here. and he while he's not an engineer, he's has a ton of experience with that kind of property. He's an excavator. May we have him take just a a minute or two, mayor, and address us all?

I will in a moment, but I first want to preface it by this. Okay. You're talking about Tyler Russ and his father and Robert who were really helpful and I met with them on a couple of occasions and I seen the maps and uh those maps were given to Kevin Campbell. Those maps were given to Bran Hansen, those maps were given to other council members and and uh Kevin actually I don't want to put words in Kevin's mouth but he says

yeah this maybe could work but so we've discussed those maps in detail. So, I'm just given the and the council saw those maps as well too in our work session. So, so I'm find great great to have Robert come up uh if if if he wants to summarize those for us or if there's new information uh that we have in addition to those but and and maybe you haven't seen those. You've not have you not seen those at all? I saw Yeah. So, I don't know if there's is there more information Come on up, Robert. Is there more information to add to that or to to what we have on those maps? No,

just come to the pulpit and and just introduce yourself. So for the record.

So I I'm Rob Vandergrift and I was asked uh a little over a year ago just to see if this property is even feasible, viable for a cemetery. I did not know. I was asked by Tyler Russen if I'd go up there with him. And uh the ground itself is is you don't see any erosion up there. There's no erosion. It's very sedimentary. It's a little bit rocky, but there's no erosion. In fact, there are gullies up there, several gullies that go right down into residents and they don't have any problems. The key thing for this, I think the cemetery after reviewing it, doing our drones, doing our elevations, the road can be designed in my opinion, engineered if you want to. It can be engineered to give us us less slope, make it wider, do retaining, and I've I've shared some of the costs of that um to Rick uh did you get that email?

I did. Okay.

Yesterday. just, you know, some really close costs on this thing. But it has the potential in my opinion to be one of the most beautiful cemeteries in the state because of the setting. Now, the engineering once this if the soil's passed, it's a matter of how slloppy you want it. It's digging into the one side of the hill, raising up and and you could have the cemetery be similar to the Centerville cemetery in slope, maybe a little more. But we set drones up there and set elevations because I I didn't know. And I put it all on paper and a map and we did a fly little fly through with a rendition and I think it has a lot of potential. The ground is stable. I would be surprised if it's not. I did talk to IGES, one of the bigger uh soil engineers in the state, and they know that ground and they think that it they'd be surprised if it wouldn't work. So, but it's it's thinking outside the box. It's different, but it just in my opinion, um it it could be an unbelievable cemetery. So, I don't know if that's That's helpful. Can we could we ask Kevin? Kevin, as far as like a geotechnical report, can you give us a like some thoughts on what that would entail and how many how many holes they'd have to dig? And

while while Kevin comes up, uh, like I said, I met Rob and Tyler a couple times before I brought in council members and, uh, they gave estimates of what they thought the road would cost. But, but he said, "Don't hold me to it." And so, never talked about those amounts. and that that that's get that's getting down into the to the wheats and authorizing staff to pursue this, you know, to really get what those estimates are. And maybe Kevin will address some of that as well too, what Councilwoman Hurst just asked.

Okay. So, yeah, as far as the soils, um, they'll probably be very similar to what we're experiencing up at the tank site. Typically, they're very sandy, grally. There's probably some rocks, but in general, the hillside is very sandy. Um, up at the tank, we used in order to stabilize the slopes, we use some some gunnite or shotrete while the tank's being built. If you've been up there, you'll notice there's a few inches of of shot. So, that's a technique. What kind of got sprayed up the hillside? Yep. Exactly.

Okay. And so that's used in order to, you know, those sandy so soils, they like to slough off. Sometimes the erosion is not there when you have vegetation, but then when you cut in a road, like you'll see the road going up does have erosion because when you denute a site, then you can um you can kind of introduce possibilities for erosion. So in general, I think if we got a a geological hazard study, they might find some minor faults. They might find a fault, but does that make it so you can't build a cemetery? Oh, probably not. you can't build a habitable structure, but um geotechnical study is probably going to show that you've got soils that have been there for over 30 years. So, they're consolidated and they're um not considered fills. They're going to be native natural soils that um have consolidated over time. Um, you know, so I do think that they probably allow some cuts. Uh, they probably are not going to allow much fill to the west. Um, that's probably not something that where you have some steep slopes, they're not. So again, terracing, how much can you terrace? How much can you cut? And and then in the end, like how much flat area can you get? How many spots can you get? Um but yeah, that that's would be my take initially on the soils from what we've seen on projects in the hillside.

Do you dare hazard a guess, especially with maybe some of your experience with the tank site just because that's recent? Could you hazard a guess to what it might cost to do that geotechnical study and maybe provide a conceptual, you know, is it possible to do it? I know we talked about that maybe so, but with conceptual, could we come up with some type of cost estimate that would be more? Yeah, I think get pretty good study done for around $10,000 would be kind of a ballpark like number that you could go up and they take some bores. They maybe

half a dozen, three to half a dozen bore samples and they'd go and study those and come up with a report. Maybe if there was I don't think you'd necessarily have to find the fault. I mean, that's maybe something they would look for, but there could be some trenching that could be done to see if you could establish where the fault lines are at. Kevin, if we did that, uh I know I talked with Bren, our city manager on this as well, too. We didn't. Is that the first thing you do or should would there be other process we we should do before spending 10 grand on doing that study?

Um I think and this is kind of a little bit of a personal take, but I think the group needs to decide, do they really want a cemetery up on the hill, you know, and that's kind of where we were at last time. Okay.

Yep. Does want a cemetery up on the hill? If that's something they want to study, I think, you know, Yeah. the $10,000 would be well spent. But if the group doesn't want a cemetery up on the hill, I just it's uh we can give you a general idea of what the soils are going to be like without a without a geotechnical study. We we have a pretty good idea from the debris basin that's up the dual creek uh mouth of the canyon. You know, we have those studies. We have the studies the tanks a little further away, but uh the uh debris dam that was built up there is really pretty close um close by. So we could look back at those and and um it's going to be a lot of sand and a lot of gravel. That's what's going to be up there.

Kevin, if you were to just take those previous studies, I agree with you that I'm not sure that we it seems like you're right. there are some existing structures in place that we could look at that. Could you like what would be the complexities for you to maybe look at some of those? I I do think we have sort of a conceptual idea that Robert drew up. So, I'm not sure that we need a whole lot, but just maybe looking into that to see I feel like you have a a good feel that you could generally say, well, based on what's already there, we you already know what we could maybe slope it or terrace or cut in kind of make it work.

Yeah, I think for some of those um analysis, you may want the geotechnical study because you're going to need to know, okay, how much can we cut? How much can we fill? What slopes are safe? Okay. Um, you know, how much can you retain? What's that going to look like? Um, so to get a very, you know, very good concept design and concept estimate, you know, you might want to have that geological hazard study, geotechnical study completed.

Otherwise, you're kind of guessing it like, okay, yeah. So, so I'm hearing like if we really want to look at it, we probably do need that geotech report so that whatever you analyze, you're actually doing it with some accurate information, not just guessing. It'll change how we engineer it. Right. Right. Right.

So, it's hard to give an estimate without knowing all the information that gives us the foundation. And of course, the other cost to consider what the cost for the utilities to get up the hillside. So, there's more than just a road and a slope. there's the utilities um widening that road that's actually on dual creek property. So there's a lot of other factors that we discussed and we need to consider. So I mean my recommendation again mayor I don't mean to step is if you want to explore this further I think a work session where we really talk about all those factors not just the survey but we say okay is it worth just understanding what the potential costs of all these items are but we won't know until we get the geotechnical because it will change how we run our lines. it'll change where the potential tank is that would feed the water for the sprinklers. Drainage has always been a concern for us up there. And so we might need to invest in the drainage um a little bit further beyond the cemetery. So

well and I agree with you because obviously this isn't the only option. I mean we'd still have to discuss the properties that we identified as well too as other options. I think that the council as a whole uh knows that that many people in this city want a cemetery. Just been finding the way to do it where you can do it at uh a reasonable cost. Um and you can do it the cemeter cemetery that works. I know that when I campaigned my first time, I really didn't have an agenda of anything. But the what I found that that the people wanted is part of it was I add a lot on mental wellness. Hence that's why I did the consider center of cares program. I heard a lot on uh bike trails. I heard a lot on um pickle ball courts and I heard a lot on cemetery stuff and and I think we all did and that's why we continue to pursue it and come back and back to it just hoping way finding uh maybe that uh by some chance that uh something happens people want to donate some property or something and we keep discussing it because uh I think that uh we all see that concern, but at the same time, we don't want to spend money that we in my opinion that we don't have any intention of doing anything with. Uh uh I I look at that same property and there was a study done uh on a on a bike trail that we uh paid somebody to do uh when I was running for office and and we didn't do anything with with with that uh that that that study that came out of it. So if we if we go that route and we discuss

these other options for close session, we have a work session, uh, and we make that determination of, hey, do we want to spend 10 grand or more? Uh I think my opinion council you're saying that you're that that's an option and you're looking to go that direction and that's that's feasible and you get a lot of people hopeful and you know I'm not giving up on it because I've just gone with you what I've gone gone through. Uh I don't think that everybody wants to visit the Fruit Heights thing again, but the new Fruit Heights mayor I got to know very well and working on the uh airplane show on the 4th of July and uh you know I could I could go down that route road as as well too. So and chase some other options as well too but but uh I won't because I don't think that that people want it if we do get a cemetery want it outside of Centerville. even though it could be we may be close but so uh yeah we got this this is a definite option but we got to look at all the options in my opinion.

Any other thoughts

along those lines? May I just take the liberty to to share a quote? Uh, and I and I say this understanding that that there are a lot of costs to a cemetery and ongoing costs and maintenance. And I know it is not a revenue producer for a city. It's probably a a physical financial draw and will be for years to come. Uh but there are so many more elements to take into into consideration with this. And this is a quote from British statesman William E. Gladstone. He's he was just prior to Winston Churchill uh and renowned in his time. He served four times as the prime minister of England. Show me the manner in which a nation or a community cares for its dead, and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender sympathies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty to high ideals. I I think that's a very good concept to keep in mind. And I'll close my remarks with that. So, we did we have this on uh it it's morphed into the 160 acres on the hill. Was there any other concepts outside of uh properties potentially acquire that we'll do in a close session that options that people wanted to bring up? I just threw out there that could, you know, I go to the Fru Heights option again, but I'm not going to unless tell somebody tells me to. Um any other options that do we have that we can discuss in in an open session like this on the cemetery?

In my travels um stationed in Germany in the army I learned that they turn over their graves every about 30 years. So you can always I'm not recommending that but in in in international countries there is actually this tradition where they actually will reuse or reberry their dead in their cemeteries. I'm not arguing we should do that. I'm just saying it's fascinating. Cemeteries fascinate me. So, I learned a lot about that when I was traveling. Anyway, fascinating. What it is in New Orleans, it's all above ground because there sea level and so you can stack people after people up and that has been discussed, mayor. I mean, we've had proposals and mausoleiums. I council member Plameumber has brought that up as as something for us to possibly consider in previous meetings.

I'd like that because I don't really want to be buried. I have a spot, but I don't really want to be buried. You build a mausoleum for me. I'd like it. You want to be above ground in a Easier to get out of

as long as it's closed, right? I went through some crypts in Italy and uh that they they weren't uh they were gory. Have we mayor, may I ask I drove around and I I was looking at different places or just driving the city and you know I I'd mentioned Island View. It made the most sense to me as far as location is concerned. But what about other parks within the city limits? So were they ever I mean you had mentioned that you had reached out to the church and that was actually something that was on in the back of my brain is there's so much land that the church has that they don't use per se as far as for the the baseball fields and such. So for me that is another avenue that I I would suggest that we relook at.

So, Council Member Plumber, I will bring up that I'm going to quote exact Mike's dumb idea, Mike Carlson. Mike's dumb idea was actually on the west side of Smoot Park. That is an underutilized part of that park. In fact, it's hard to water. So, when we were having these meetings, so yes, other parks had been considered Smooth Park Westside as one of those potential locations. Again, we haven't gained any traction or explored that any further, but um again, I I think all options have been considered and we'll talk about that in the closed session where we have explored many properties. Um and I've I've got a sheet that I'll share what the potential cost would be this. But anyway, there's other properties for sure that we

Yeah, I don't I don't know who gave me the lead on that, but somebody said that the LDS church around the world was selling off some of their old baseball park, softball parks cuz back in the day they built that at every building cuz softball was a uh a big sports program that every LDS stake did. So, they were selling some of them off. So, I got the hold that they had real estate person at church headquarters downtown Salt Lake. And like I said in that report, they said they weren't selling any off at the time, but they keep us in mind. Now, that's been a few years, so we should remind them again. I was specifically looking at if they were going to sell off the the Rock Chapel. There's that that baseball park there, softball park there. And then there was another acre in between there and Home Depot.

Yeah. that you would have had to get from uh Home Depot as well too. But we explored what it would take because there's kind of wetlands in there. There's a lot of drainage. So, what would we do to potentially how do we bury that and and get that out of wetlands and expand that one acre into two or three acres, but again, now you're adjacent to a pretty large retail area. And again, we're trying to be somewhat respectful of of the dead in some way and the services that happen. But again, all options have been on the table. Very good.

And mayor, may I add a little insight into that perhaps that'll help? And I am very favorable to the hillside property, but but with respect to the LDS church, as I think most of the council knows here, I worked for the LDS church in this area for 11 years. And I did buy no I was involved in the sale of three parcels of property in Centerville from the church for various reasons. It usually takes for the church to have a motivating factor to have any interest in even considering selling a property. I'm not I'm not uh saying how the church might feel about that, but if a city approached them for something such as a cemetery, I do believe the church would be more amanable to considering the sale of some of their reserved property than just contacting the real estate department of the church and asking if they'd consider because that's not how the church works. But uh

well, I did more than just the real estate department. So I won't use I won't name context that I went to but okay and I wasn't I didn't I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply that but but there but I'm not saying that that can't take place. They couldn't change their minds. So yeah I agree I I agree with you.

So uh other options before uh we move on. It looks like we'll bring this back for a work session but uh when we get some of our other options in mind. Um, one comment I would make is if you want to study the hillside and you want to do a geotech geotechnical report, you need to kind of take a look at do you want to look at the bowl area as well or if you just want to look at the area below the bowl. So that' be a discussion that you'd want because anyways I would hate to go up and just do a geotechnical study below the bowl and then say, "Oh, hey, wait a minute. What about up in the bowl area?" So it'd be nice to define what areas because both are in the city's property, I guess. So that's just a comment or kind of question that I have.

Let me ask you a question, Kevin. How so if we were to get this study done and um we have it, how long does a study like that last? like could we say that um we put this on the back burn let's say we don't move forward with development but we have this study how long would that study be useful for years months uh it's good it's good for years and years until unless someone started moving dirt up there and then you'd have to maybe restudy it but if nobody was moving dirt up there that study would be good for a long time okay

thank So, uh, this is a public hearing matter, but I'm going to allow this gentleman because he's been raising his hand to take just a couple minutes really quick. Uh, and we'll say this is part of the open session again as well, too. Well, if if this is not appropriate for an open session, then no, just just stay where you're from. So, we don't

I'm Dennis Davis. I live on 1200 North. Um my I have a couple of questions and and a comment I guess. One question is um what is the mandate based on the vote that was taken? What what year was that vote taken? 2017 2017 so eight n sorry all sorry 21 okay 21 21 for I'm back to when I first ran that was that was my it was the same year I ran so 21 17 plus 4 I just I'm a CPA I'm bad on math so

but your point is is valid in that uh beyond that we've been looking at this issue for a long time. And so my comment is let's spend the 10,000 or whatever it takes to find out whether or not you've got a viable option on the 160 acres. 10,000 out of 7 million is and uh my second comment is uh how committed are we based on the vote that was taken? I I don't know what the terms of the vote were, but uh does it give us a mandate to come up with a symmetry some why can't we just say it's just not feasible? We can't do it or or put it to the vote again. I I I really think that uh resources are not going to get any better. That's for sure. we know how much land there is and unless you go to a different part of the county, you know, some place where they've got land out west and but then that kind of defeats the purpose of having a Centerville cemetery if it's in Syracuse, you know. So, uh I say let's do what we need to to put it to bed.

Thank you. Appreciate it. And actually your question uh the um the wording we have it here in our packet was do the citizens of Centerville I'm summarizing want to allow the city council to investigate the potential of a cemetery of uh through a $7 million bond. Uh and and that's that's what they've been doing. They've been working hard on investigating options for that. obviously a $7 million bond. The residents were also saying that uh if we if we decide to put in a cemetery that we're taking out a bond and their taxes are going up. They're they're going to pay for that uh to repay the bond. So,

was there a sunset on that? There was 10 years. 10 years. 10 years. Uhhuh. Yeah. 10 years. And Mr. Mayor, I actually looked this up while we were talking. Uh, with regards to the mandate, there were 2317 votes cast in favor of the bond, 286 votes casts against. So, approximately 52% in favor, 48% against.

It's just a lot of time.

Thank you. Okay. No. Uh no other ideas on what we're discuss uh close session about properties and acquisition of properties. Okay. Uh thank you. Um uh then let's move forward. Um, let's go to item number two. This is discussion on meeting minutes. Um, uh, can I turn it over to you? Uh, Brent, do you want it or does Jennifer or?

No, sure. I'm happy to introduce it, mayor. Thank you. So, with the conversation we've had at the last couple council member or council meetings, we we've had discussions on on how to proceed with our minutes and attachments related to those minutes. Uh so we thought it'd be very helpful for again as staff we really just want to get clear direction on what the direction is on how you want to handle uh particularly attachments to the minutes. Um we we've had a practice for decades and we have an understanding and interpretation of the law in our mind and so we we've been challenged to maybe look at it differently. Um, so ultimately we just want to have that conversation with you and and again just reiterate what we believe the law states and the interpretation thereof and what we mean by attaching it to the record and Jennifer is going to go through and and show you how things get attached to the record even if it's not part of the minutes. So we'll have Jennifer will go through that as well. So ultimately, mayor, that's that's what we wanted to do is just again just have that conversation of how we interpret it. Um, and get clear direction as we proceed so we don't have a a conversation 20 30 minute conversation every time we try to do a minutes. So, uh, we just want to streamline this as quickly as possible. So, Lisa, is it okay if I hand it to you as far as the interpretation? Is that okay?

Sure. Yes. Thank you. Uh I did a little bit more research on this provision in our Utah statute that says any other information that is a record of the proceedings of the meeting that any member request be entered into the minutes or reporting. So it's a fairly unique clause. There's about two or three other states that has something similar. Um the reasoning behind it is for transparency so that members can say I want this to be included to reflect what occurred at the meeting. Um but some of the other statutes say which I think is helpful a member may request that information be included or reflected in the minutes. And I believe that that language better reflects what staff's interpretation of minutes, which is a summary of what occurred. So when you're doing statutory construction, you also try to look at the the rest of the language in the statute, which talks about um you know, a summary, a brief summary of public statements and uh a summary of what occurred in the meeting. So again, this is a unique provision. I was unable to find any Utah case law and the other states did not have it, which basically just means no, it hasn't been litigated. No one's ever argued about these provisions in the four states that have this provision. Okay. So we also look to Robert's rules of order, which we have adopted, you know, informally. And so in my opinion, the public body does approve the minutes. Um, and so absent this statute, if a member said, "I want this," but the body felt like that actually wasn't accurate and that wasn't what happened at the meeting, the body can say, "No, we refuse to add that

that you've requested." Now, obviously, in this situation, I think our facts are typically yes, this occurred. You know, should it be attached to the record? But one other statute I'd like to bring up in reviewing our minutes policy as well as the open meetings act um because I I was saying whenever somebody brings electronic so once we started getting electronic information or people would show a PowerPoint remember those people the the legislature changed the statute to say hey if you get if someone presents something electronically you need to either get a hard copy of what they presented or an electronic copy copy so that that electorate information can be included in the public record. So again, this is staff's position that if things are handed out or public comment is given that that it's more appropriate for those things to be included in the public record, which is for instance the staff report. And when the general plan comes forward, we will be forwarding as part of the public record all of the written public comment from below. Um and so I I believe that we have done that or we can do that um attaching it to the staff reports um which are also maintained. Uh I do understand that the the meeting minutes reflect the official record of the proceedings. Um, but our reading is more that it's a summary and um I like I would more I would interpret the statute to information that can be included to reflect what occurs, but we're still talking about, you know, a summary because when you add something verbatim that one council member wants or one attachment, it looks like the rest of the council members were not

prepared or didn't have anything to day because it's not in the summary of the minutes. So taking minutes is an art and making sure that you are um consistent and accurate with how much information you're including or not including because you you put in again a verbatim page or you know clause then you're going to continue to want other things or in my opinion at that point it's not an accurate reflection because you're pinpointing one particular discussion. I do agree that our minutes can be more detailed and I think staff will work towards that to make our minutes uh more detailed because the open and public meetings act not only says that the minutes and the open meetings act is for the purpose of reflecting the vote that occurred but also the deliberations. That's why we have open meetings is so that the public can hear your deliberations meaning how you came to that decision and what what issues were you struggling with in making that decision. So we don't just put this is the motion. That's not the most important. I mean it it's reflective of the action that was taken but also your deliberations. So

and then Jennifer could you show how we attach items to the record?

Sure. So just just like any other for example this is our meeting currently that we have here you can see each individual item and all of the attachments that are on here. So just as an example of a similar situation at our January 14th meeting of last year. Council member Summer Hayes put together um a you know a write up of his um uh housing affordability opinion and that was attached to the record here. The the item was discussion land use planning and you can see right here Summer's general plan land use discussion and this is where we attached his attachment to the record and it's a and it's available right here.

So Council Member Summer Hayes just requested that be added. didn't require a vote to this body to attach it. It was a request that was given to Jennifer and requested be added. So we right and if anything is ever provided a handout or you know something like this is ever handed out in the meeting or provided to the body it's attached to the packet. That's where it goes. That's its place. And so I mean just I know we had at our last work session we did have um council member Bangader wrote up his priorities and it has been attached to the record here and so the so this is our meeting you go to and I'll just even show you show the process if I'm a resident and I'm curious about

this is all going to change tomorrow when our new website goes live but as of right now your process isn't though. Yeah the process process will be exactly the same. Here's our homepage. this first button right here where it says agendas and minutes. You click here and then you can search by any meeting. I'm going to scroll back to our February 3rd city council work session and and open it up. And then right here, here's council member Bangador's priorities that he presented in that meeting. So the the current question is we did have a request to attach this to the minutes. However, staff believes that a more appropriate place is for it to be attached here to the packet as part of the public record

which is the public record which is very Go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say Jennifer I so I I wrote down a couple of suggestions which when you're done I'll

but could I ask is there a possibility when you're attaching these that we somehow differentiate that this was a written submission that came in like I like I would like to know like oh this is this is the um item that Councilman Bangader brought to the meeting. I I can see that it is his um I can see that Spencer's was his item, but also just say this is this is a written submission that was given so that we know that was not in the actual packet. It came up during the meeting. Not really. Because the way that civic clerk is designed is this is an agenda management software. And so all of the attachments have to be attached to an agenda item. And so we could have label it that posted written submission. So right here, this attachment, I could just rename it and put, you know, even in caps before it, I could title it as written handout dash, whatever the title is we want to call it,

just because I think it makes it a little easier for us to go, oh, there it is. That's the thing I was looking for. I just can't do it. Sounded like you were asking like do another like bold section heading. I can't do that because it has to be tied to the agenda item. So I had I had two thoughts. I was like, so this is not how I usually go into the board port portal which I was like well could we have we have the open session could we have at the bottom you know this is the written submissions that were received during this particular meeting and then there they can be attached there so nothing's there it's like like we could I'm fine with whatever I'm not telling you how

we could potentially do something like that but you see the way the agenda is here we have the open session section in order for me to add an attachment, I'd have to add an item under that, which I could do. I could just label the item open session handouts or something and attach. So, there's workarounds. I would I mean, in for that, but

yeah, I mean, tonight I'm going to hand out a couple of things, you know, when the mayor asked me for if there's anyone else that wants to report on, you know, council items. So, I just wondered if generally speaking, it could be posted somewhere. I'm fine with it where it's at. I do like your suggestion of maybe just calling out that, hey, this is this is Councilman Bangoder's handout so that we know, oh yeah, that was the it wasn't part of the staff. It wasn't part of the staff packet. I think that I think that the community was very frustrated at some point with um Councilman Summerh's packet because they thought it was an official city document where it was more of his

opinion. And so I'm trying to say let's let's keep them separate so that people know oh okay this is and I think the simplest way to do that would just be to rename the file itself and put a header on it and say you know public information handout and then whatever the title because we we don't want it appear we're endorsing something when the

that's what I'm worried about is that and that's one of my that's one of the things that I said is that we need to remain neutral in tone and I I think I think staff has done a very good job of always doing that. I do like that things are being attached. Um I support staff's you know opinion on that it should not be attached to the minutes because minutes should be a brief summary. I'm okay with saying in for example um this is what so and so came to the open I mean we have one tonight right that should be attached into the public record. So this is, you know, this is TJ and Talia Riley's discussion point in the open session. We have an attachment that the minutes clearly delineate. There was an attachment, but then this is in the public record part, which in my mind is what you just presented. The other thing that I would like to request is when you're doing that in the header, I'd like like um Councilman Bangaders to say attached per request from Councilman Bangader so that people can see he was the one that brought it and he was the one that asked it to be attached. I think it's important that people just like with with um Spencer Summerhaz, we'll throw him under the bus because he's not here. So,

I'm not meaning to, but I just But what I'm just being funny, but what I'm saying is he he did that, but it wasn't necessarily the feelings of the rest of us. So, I don't want it to look like it was all of us that wanted that attached. He was the one that asked it to be attached and so he was the one. So, I did a lot of calling around today and I called other uh city recorders and I talked to one who kind she she said the same thing that you guys are saying that they do the attachments um to the record, not to the minutes. That the minutes is a summary of what happened. So, this didn't happen in the meeting. If somebody didn't read the whole thing that you could and if you if they did then you would summarize it. it wouldn't be. So, if somebody wants it as an attachment, I'm great with that. But I think we need to state who requested it to be attached. And I do think for something to according to her, for something to be attached, a council member had to ask that it be attached. So, she said we have a council member that would say, I would like to s I would like this to be attached. But I think that that's a good thing to have put on the top. So, like like with with Councilman Bangader, he's put that in there, but none of the rest of us, we all brought

um

notes. We all brought them. So, we don't want to look like he's the only one that came prepared and the rest of us didn't. So, if it says he requested this to be done, people know why his is in there and ours are. I slightly though disagree with that just a little bit because I think when I read all of the documentation, if we receive something written, it probably should be attached in the public record, which Jennifer has been doing. So, she's been in my mind she's doing exactly what I read in the law. Whether it's requested or not, it I think it I it's fine if we need to say that in the council meeting that it should be attached, but I don't know that it shouldn't like Councilwoman Bangador did hand out a written thing. I didn't I did not give you a written thing. So, in my mind, that's

I don't know that that means anything different to me. He did hand it out and I think it should be recognized. I want them to know that he was the one that wanted that to be in the record. I'm fine with that, but I just think I don't rather or not it's requested. Shouldn't we be attaching something that's written that's passed out to all of us? The the c the one that I talked to said that it wasn't attached unless a council member requested it.

I I'm fine either way. Is it something that has to be requested in the meeting? And if it if so if if it is something that must be requested in the meeting to attach something to the record, then wouldn't that then be reflected in the in the minutes that Councilman Bangoder requested the his written statement to be added to the record or we uh had a public hearing and the Riley's brought in a written statement that is now going to be submitted to the record. I I feel like that is that would solve a lot of issues is we we state in the minutes that these have been requested in the rec to be put on the record.

What legally has to happen is that if it if they've requested it, it should be attached to the public record. Only a council member, not the public. Okay. And and I'm saying I'm saying if we've received something written, I think it would be nice if I if we need to make that statement, let's make that statement, but if I received something written, I would like it attached. You may not want everything attached to the record, right? So you may not want everything attached. Agreed. And I was gonna I was going to comment about that. May I please?

I'm first of all, I'm in complete accord with where you're going. that that gets the document that was desirable by a member of the body into the public record. It doesn't need to be part of the minutes, but it's it's it's referenced and it's explorable easily by anybody who's interested that I'm in total agreement with that. And and to Gina's point, as far as anything that the public presents in writing, uh I think we had an excellent example tonight. I suspect it sounds like Gina might even be suggesting that that be included as an attachment to the packet. Uh and and one problem I have with saying that Gina Council or excuse me, Councilman Hurst, you know, suggested this. Well, there might be five of us in total agreement. And I and you know, I'll say it out loud. I don't want Gina to get all the credit. I I think that's a good point that it definitely just because one person suggested it, you're right. There would be probably others that may want it attached, but maybe it's just a matter of saying it was re I mean, can we just does it have to be stated who requested it?

It can just be stated the council. No, but I don't I don't think you can make a policy that and I don't know they are, but that we attach everything that's handed out because some things are not appropriate. Well, we may not want to attach everything, right? I agree. There could be two lengthy ones. There could be profanity laced things that come in and but that's where we put this. It's only we who can suggest what be submitted and so it seems like there's some building control over that and I mean I would trust that my fellow council members wouldn't do anything of the sort along those lines. Can I make a suggestion?

Sure.

In my two years that I've been here, I've never seen anybody that has submitted anything that is profanity laced or that would otherwise be inappropriate or that's overly lengthy. And so rather than stress out about trying to figure out which materials we attach, would we be willing to consider a default policy that says if anyone, a member of the public or council, hands out anything during a public meeting that the default is that it will be attached in the way that Jennifer has indicated. And we could of course have an exception, a veto where if the council, somebody handed out something that was inappropriate, we could say, but we don't want that one to go on the public record. And then the default would be that it's going in the public record. We don't have to have a debate about whether it's attached to the mits or not attached to the mits. It just happens automatically. And if we feel like somebody is handing out something that's inappropriate, we could say not that one.

I would love that.

I would be concerned about that in the sense that we then are um liable to be accused of censorship if we have a default policy. If we just have the uh option to uh every session or every council meeting to say I would like after the comments are made to submit this to the public record then we are taking it case by case. But if we have a default position that says everything gets through except wait that not that then we are censoring you know. Well, I would make an argument that the default is not censoring. In fact, the default of allowing everything in is the exact opposite of any censorship. And if we're doing it on a case- by case basis, we have a much more likelihood of people saying you're picking and choosing. So, but we have that option as a council. We have the right to say I'd like this put into the record and I don't have to say I don't have to say this can't be put in the record.

So, with I don't want that to happen. I I don't want somebody to bring something that would be, you know, inappropriate and then say that's inappropriate. We don't want that one. I would rather just say, hey, let's get

attach all the things tonight. So that I I think it's more proactive to say, you know, as a council person, I don't have to they can't come out and say I'm censoring. If I have a right to say I want it in the record, I say I want it in the record. If I don't say anything, it doesn't go in the record. So I don't I don't think we're putting ourselves in as much of a risk as But I What Lisa, what do you think? Well, the Open Meetings Act, I'm not aware of something that talks about anything handed out has to be in the public record, right?

But we do have other bodies. So, for instance, with the planning commission, we often have applications with an applicant and if the applicant brings something or we get written public comment, we put that in the record because that's part of what the planning commission used to make their decision, right? So, it's different than just open session at the city council, but our other bodies don't have that. So, anyway, staff uses their discretion. You know, as Jennifer's pointed out, we attach things whether the council had requested it or not and whether the planning commission requests it or not. But, and I'm okay as long as staff's using their discretion. I trust staff. I think we have a great staff

if it's relevant to the application. If someone comes in and it's not necessarily relevant, then we don't even have an agenda item to attach it to. So, you know, so I mean that could be it like I guess at the open session if the council member says, "Oh, let's I would like that as part of the record because we don't have something under open session." I mean I don't know how we are committee members and planning commissioners uh given the same um perview for requesting the same statute applies to them as a public body.

Yes. Lisa, can I I I mean, this is kind of slightly different, but um we attached something to the minutes last time and then just a couple of days later, we received an email from that individual with an updated. How do you track or do you track when they send an email that's revised? We don't just go in and put that into the public record. Only the thing that was presented in that meeting at that moment is put in. Right. Correct. So I guess what I because it didn't happen if those corrections did not happen. It did not happen in the meeting. I'm sorry. You can come to the next open session and again this is how you get

that's fine. I just want to convey that to that particular instance. I kind of view that as anybody at any time can email the city council with questions, comments, attachments, whatever. Not all of those are going to be part of our public record. like some people can just email you and be like, "Hey, I have these suggestions for the general plan and that can happen at any time whether it's part of a public hearing or not like like you're accessible, but that doesn't mean it's going to go in our packet. It doesn't mean it's going to get attached to minutes." So that comment that was made in the meeting, we obviously made an exception and attached it to those minutes for that meeting and then the revision came after. So

right. So in the case of when we leave uh a public hearing open for a time period so that people can send emails are those attached to the public record and by public record I mean civic clerk. I have requested all that that planning staff attach those to planning commission meetings as you know if we have these

that you know for instance on the general plan. Yes I said make sure that we attach all of those because we left the public hearing open, but it's a lot. But, you know, the city council can go back and look at those or we can attach them again to the city council staff report. It's a lot easier to just say go look at the planning commission staff report and all of those attachments. So, we're not reattaching hundreds of pages, right? And, you know, storing all of those records. But

I'm hoping I was hoping that's what you were doing that if that public hearing is open then that email is viewed slightly differently because we usually say either come back and comment next time or send us an email. And in my mind if we say send us an email the community is viewing that that is being heard and is part of the record.

And may I put out a little food for thought? I think great discussion tonight. Uh I in reviewing how many cities uh how lengthy some of their their minutes are or unlength uh I noticed one of the cities I can't remember which one but they had a comment in their uh instructions or direction for the public session that the city council highly recommends that presenters in the public session have a a one-page maximum outline line of the topic they want to present not requires recommends. I think like we saw tonight, that was a very well put together, a lot of thought had gone into it, concise, and if our presenters uh took a little time to do that, it would be a whole lot easier for us to be able to say, "Cool, put that in the in the in the record." And that's transparency. That's wonderful. And that's giving our our residents a chance to feel that they're being heard and that something that they presented is available for the public to see. And I I would like to recommend maybe that we adjust the the direction just a little bit there in that public hearing to maybe suggest something like that. Maximum one-page typewritten uh summary of what you want to present.

In speaking about the minutes, I I know that there's been discussion to include a little more detail. Lisa mentioned that. I I think that that's a really important thing. I I really think um as we're doing that in an effort to keep it neutral and I would love to see and I think I think this happened Jennifer the last time when Councilman Bangador made some suggestions and then you went back and reworked those minutes. I thought you did a really good job of getting kind of the overall viewpoints of the various council members, but maybe that could just be also part of the policy of the minutes is like I I do want on record if you're going to track, you know, oh well this this was the vote and here's why this is this is where you know Councilman Plameumber felt this way and you know maybe maybe it's multiple council members or I would like to see that we just get a if it's even one sentence. I felt like you did that, but I just wanted to say I thought that was great last time and I if we're going to put a little more detail in, I think that would be great if it kind of included like this is why council members voted the way they did. I mean, I'm I'm assuming you can usually decipher that based on what we say in the in the period leading up to the vote. stop.

I think she can just talk. I think she can give a oneliner of the discussion. She can't know why I voted the way I did. I could say one thing and I could I mean, she can't say, "Well, Robin voted because she's against this." But she could say, "Councilman Mikum said she's concerned about this for this reason." Just summarize maybe what I said. She can't decide why I voted the way I Well, I I agree with you on that. That's an important clarification that it's you should probably it's probably what you can you can say that you're concerned about something and then still vote a different way. Yeah. Or

but Robin was concerned about this but she voted yes. I mean just so that I mean lots of times we've voted and said well I'm voting for this but I think I think that's fine to say I I like what you said so and so's concerned about this but I don't think you need to go. And then she voted just I like how you do it at the end just this is this is who voted for it. This is who desent it. All right. So you're doing a great job, Jennifer. Great job.

So back to Council Member Bangers. He brought up a proposal or an idea and I just again I I just want to make sure we we address it now and solve it now so we're not so we make sure we're all on the same page. So Council Member Bangers put forward an idea what added to the agenda. Is that what where you would add this encouragement? I wouldn't make it a requirement. I I think a lot of people when they come to the podium sometimes if you ask them to do homework they're not going to come and then you're not going to hear from them at all.

I will share that in in previous cities what we have done is is there's a form that would be outside of the council chamber. So if you if you wanted to speak you would fill out the form your name your address the ID you want just a little brief summary and then you'd actually hand it to the city recorder and the city recorder would hand it to the mayor and then the mayor would call the people up saying hey here how I'm not saying we need to go that route. I'm just saying that was actually the more formal way that we took in previous cities to address potentially those topics or getting idea what they care about and that would be attached to the record. We used to do that years ago. Used to do that, right? We used to have it outside, right? I've had people ask me why we don't have a signin sheet and there used to be signin sheets.

We used to always have a signin sheet and I've had people come and say there's no signin sheet. What am I supposed to do? A lot of cities still track that. I know. I wouldn't mind a sign-in sheet, but I while I I like what you're saying, I just don't want to prevent anyone from feeling like they can get up and say something. You know, sometimes they're here and they hear somebody say something maybe during a public hearing and they feel compelled to get up. I don't want them to feel like, "Oh, I didn't fill out a paper. Now I've got to go back there and fill it out." And that's why we shifted away from that, right? Because you didn't want them to get up. Not even public open session. somebody says something, it makes somebody else all the have have sudden have the courage to get up and say something.

I want them to feel like they can just get up and say something. That's back where I began council. I said that we could recommend they do a one-page deal. And mayor, when you open the council or the public session, you could identify that, you know, council appreciates a one-page written summary, but it's now open and make your comments and you're free to do so even without. I guess that's where I'm asking where you'd like that what you're proposing if I'm changing the way we do if we're change the way we do the agenda or versus what's just being stated. That's that's what I'm just asking for clarification on is how council feels about it and directing us and what

you want a motion. I don't there's not no motion because it's not an agenda item per se what you're talking about. It's just direction. You know if there's a general feel in in what's happening. I don't know how you do it. I I'm I'm fine with suggesting that maybe people bring something discussed. I'm not inclined to say to somebody as they come to the podium, hey, we recommend you you bring a hand out and you didn't bring a hand out. You know, I'm not going to do that. So, type of thing, you know, I think, you know, I mean, let's just get rid of the open session. We're going to do that kind

on the agenda itself. It says open session and then underneath it says the open session allows members of the public to comment or address the city council on matters not listed on the agenda. Open session comments should be limited to three minutes per person. Please state your name and the city of residence for record. It is recommended that you could have this is me adding it is recommended that you provide the city council with a brief one-page summary of your thoughts or and that would be I think all counciloman's requesting. I might think that written comments may also be provided.

I was going to say so I I would get away from the recommended because if you see that they're going to say that's homework and they're not going. Yeah. Can I throw devil's advocate out here? You're then setting them up that you're discussing that motion with in public that night. And I still don't think people realize we can't go in detailed discussion on something that hasn't been put on the agenda. So could you just say at the end of it you can give your public comment or written comment or written summary a written summary not say required not say you know one page if you tell me I got to write one page I'm going to have a heart attack soc I'm just going to say you know accepted written summary is accepted

if I went to another public meeting and it was said recommended to do that I'd be like oh I didn't do that I guess I won't say my Can we at Lisa's recommended language and see if you're okay with it. I just say, "Yeah, written comments may also be provided." I like that. I like that. It's not a requirement, but it's saying that you could provide something and that you're not arguing it'll be absolutely attached to the agenda, but you're just saying because we do that in public hearings as well. People come up and they only get their two minutes, but they say, "Hey, I' I've typed out two pages." And so, we accept it. We will add that to the open session if there's unless there's any dissenting then we can make an agenda item for the future. That is that okay with Councilman Bangader.

I feel great with that. I would rather say recommended but I'm I'm agreeable to to written comments being accepted. You know, the other thing I like about that, Lisa, is that you could have people I mean, it's very intimidating to get up and talk to their body and that could encourage people to go, "Oh, all I have to do is write it and I can just walk up and hand them my paper and then go sit down and I don't have to stand and talk in front of people." I could see some people being like that would be a good alternative option to publicly speaking, but then they could get the information to us. So, I actually like it for that reason. I would like a clipboard where we did have people write their names because sometimes people are here and afterwards I'm like I don't know who

but not everybody fills it out and this becomes the challenge. You have 30 people here and five people put their names down because they don't that's their prerogative. But but at the same time it doesn't represent who was here if only it says well only five people showed up for this item when there was actually a whole house of hundred people here talking about. So I think it could misrepresent who was actually in your audience. Okay. Okay. I unless Jennifer I was just gonna say that's why we stopped putting out the signup sheet because we were putting out the signup sheet even since I have been here at the beginning and

we had a lot of full house public hearings, you know, pickle ball courts, tattoos, stuff like that. and the signup sheet was out there and this whole room was full and I'd go to pick it up at the end of the night and there's three names on it. So, I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore. So, well, if it's not accurate, I don't think it's helpful. So, we can we can have we can have Bryce out there saying, "Hey, before you come in, you got to sign this." I like that idea. Maybe add a pole tax to it. $5 to enter. When I was just kidding.

When I was in Newton not too long ago, a month ago, the room was packed and they they literally kept record by each person stating their name. They went around like this. Yeah, Bryce proposed that when he came back. It was the great I had never seen that ever. So, and since we're on the topic of this, I do want to say that as city attorneys, we've talked about and I think the recommendation now for privacy and other reasons is to just ask for their name and you can also say in city of residence because that it is, you know, on certain things we want to know, yeah, I'm a resident. Okay, you're taxpayer. This impacts you, but it's just your name and city of residence.

Yes, I like that as well, too. They always get concerned about uh yeah maybe people if they you know on those tattoo you might not want your address out but you live here or not. All righty you got your guidance in. Thanks for the presentation. Yeah question answered Brent. Yes. Perfect. Thank you so much.

Okay. All right. Let's move on. Mayor, I'm sorry, but I had one more thing I just wanted to point out on the minutes uh with respect to to the topic. Uh we've talked about we agree that we're going to provide more detail than has been traditional in the recent past. Correct. I I just want to identify that that two important words to understand in in the statute in the law are the substance of all materials proposed, discussed or decided. So the the tough thing here for Jennifer, bless her heart, what is sufficient substance? I don't think it's hard to identify all matters. That's law. We have to do that and substance is difficult. substance being in Webster's the essence essential nature. Uh that's that's important. And so as we talk about how much we in we include uh please let's keep in the essential evidence and let's keep in mind that transparency is important to I think every one of us on the council and staff. There is there is no harm in going too far and let's error if we have to on the side of a little more detail. Not every detail, not all detail, but if there's any question, let's error on the side of providing more information rather than minimizing it and and help people be better informed and and understood. Then the other well I'm not talk about that one.

Thanks. All right. Thank you.

All right. Let's go to uh next item. This is our summary action calendar. Uh um this is a boiler uh award that we have here. And we all know over months and years of discussion uh uh about the boiler here in our building. And so we have an award bid award here to sen uh centerville city boiler uh to mechanical system service. Okay. We have Cameron here. Uh if you have any questions for him uh obviously this is one we're looking for a motion on is it is in the budget correct? Yes, it is in the budget

including what it discuss is the additional uh 10 to 12,000 uh be integrated with the HVAC operating system. So, any questions on this or do I have a motion?

Mayor, I'm sorry. I do have some questions. I'm not sorry. I do have some questions and maybe it would help if Cameron could help us enlighten us a little bit. And may I may I first identify a couple of concerns I and I want to be helped with understanding and protocol. Um, and again, as as you as you know, as most of you probably know, for 11 years, I worked for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as a facility manager, and I managed 57 buildings for 11 years that had several of them had boilers in them. and I had uh uh a way the church recommended and I'm a general contractor and I'm used to the fact that when a project comes up being often times one who is bidding on projects other times a general contractor soliciting bids for projects you know looking for the best price the best deal the most competent individual to do it and the right company the right contractor to hire. Okay. I uh so understanding that background, I'm I'm interested in how we went about the process to identify first of all, Cameron, what the issues were with the boiler. Uh because there are many ways to address a a situation with a boiler. There are minor repairs, there are retrofits, there are are uh upgrades, there are complete replacements, and everybody's going to have different opinions. There are professionals in the field that can be hired as consultants without conflicts of interest, not working for a particular mechanical company or or whatever, but there are

professional consultants who do that for a living. uh when they come and you have a project as big as a boiler replacement and they are always going to be 50 grand plus we're talking a big expenditure. So I uh the way the church would do it let's let Cameron describe how how he did it all for um I took over and then then and and it was a process of not just you getting bids but leading up to it. So just kind of describe that then then the council is open to ask questions.

So this was put in the last this this year's current budget by Bruce. I took over in July for facilities. Um our we have a contract with Carrier. They told us they were bad. I said okay. I called another contractor which is MSS and got a second opinion. Okay. They one of them's dead. That was a consensus from one and we actually had our boilers inspected by our insurance company. He poked around a little bit said I can't say much but there are some problems. Okay. Um so he did he had to decommission the one. He said it doesn't work. I cannot pass this off. That's our insurance company. Um the other one is working. Okay. We have both of them replaced. Um, both of the contractors that I did get bids from recommended doing both of them. They are 20 plus years old. So that's about 20 30 years is a long time on a boiler. Um, so these two, uh, when we posted this, um, they both, cuz they knew what they came out for, said, "I want your opinion." And they said, "If you bid this, we're interested." Okay. Now, we followed state and city procurement policy. We posted it on the state website and it was up for 17 days. were required to do five. Okay. I did let both of these contractors that bid on it know that it was posted and that's pretty much the extent of it.

So, okay. Yeah. Um, are these the original boilers to the building? No, I do not think so. Okay. 2005, I think, is what the certificate said from the state. Okay. Okay. Originally, originally we thought originally that we thought they were in the budgetary, but I've found different on the certificates and these are the only two bids that you received. Correct. Correct. But it was it was posted on the Yeah. the state and city procurement policy. Okay. Well, if we replaced and replaced the other ones in 10 years because the building was built in 93 95. It was it was built in 93.

93. Okay. 93. They lasted five years. Oh, maybe it was 94. 9394. It was built the same time my house was. I don't know. They knocked the houses down at the same time. Okay. I don't know the circumstances on why those ones were changed out. Okay. 94. So the question so uh I don't know do you want to give us some history or B Bruce isn't here a bit of what we've been going through with these boilers and we have done ma maintenance and repairs for Bryce Bryce is rubbing his hands obviously he's felt it over the last five years cold right now.

Yeah. Right now luckily we've had a mild winter so I wanted to see what overwintered looked like. Um, and then it completely died. Um, and I didn't I didn't feel it was right to continue throwing money at it trying to get it to work because we had this budgeted and knew it was coming. So, we had carrier come and relight and then say everything's fine and then a week later have this was last year. I was having to reset it daily every every morning. So, yeah, resetting it daily every morning.

Wasn't keeping a flame. We've changed I can tell you in our we we do have a contract that's just gone out to carrier again and I've changed the language and some wearable repair parts are in that contract to extend the life of these based on different research and talk about that contract. Can you talk a little bit about the proprietary side of things that complicates can potentially work on these boilers? And our

we have in the ceilings dampers that open and close and can provide I mean it's one essentially one unit that pre you know produces the heat and then it's fed through the building. The dampers open and close um based on the thermostat. Um there are 28 of them in this building. Um, and we are on Carrier's proprietary software to run all of that. It's Carriers controls in the ceiling. Um, it is not open source. We're stuck with Carrier unless we want to spend over six figures to change out all those things in the ceiling to go with another company. So, we've just reuped our contract with Carrier. They're really good at air conditioners. The boilers are we've struggled a little bit.

So when you said the two bids were from who? MSS and Carrier. Okay. So, but we're moving away from Carrier. No, they're still using a carrier. They're going to MSS can install this and then that 10 to 12,000 would be for Carrier would have to come in and then hook it all back up to their stuff to their Okay. controls. So it can be that would be on top of that 69,000. Correct. Yeah, that's in the notes on the they estimate about 10 to 12. So it's 79,000. But we budget for it. Correct. But that would be we go with that contract.

That would be on carrier carrier. I made it very specific. We were not doing control. So it was apples to apples with carrier. So it would be another 10 to 12 on top of the carrier bid as well. Right. For both of them because it was the exact same bid. and and he's got to give it to us this way because this is what was bid. I I guess I also want to point out both of these contractors are on state bid. I didn't have to do any of this. So by doing this, this is a potential $40,000 savings. This carrier is our our go-to. Wait, I don't I don't understand.

So yeah, Councilman Banger. So state contract is one of the things to avoid if if you're kind of in a process, you can avoid an RFP if they're on state contract, which means the state has agreed to this pricing structure for those items. But you still want to go out there and have them compete against each other to get the lowest bid, which here you could have gone with carrier and not bid it out at all and paid the $100,000 to Carrier. However, again, trying to save money, we still went out and bid to see if we can get a lower cost in state,

which is commendable and and understandable and and fine. Uh my my concern still is I think most industry standard is to have three bids and and then vet those who you even ask to bid do an RFP or whatever so that so that you're comfortable that you're using competent individuals. one of these was almost ruled out before you sent out the bid because we're obviously not liking Carrier. Uh, and then I have a a big a big concern and you all know how supportive I am of local business in Center. And we have we have four HVAC contractors that I know who have a business license that operate in our city and who may well be able to and understanding this as a contractor myself doing work close to home is an advantage to your employees and your labor pool and everybody involved. Familiarity with it, understanding that you're going to get the call if there's a problem. So doing doing the work effectively, efficiently, and thoroughly. Uh it's a motivation if it's your neighbor, if it's your city, if it's your And I I'm worried. What are we saying to licensed businesses in our city? Now, I think one of those four HVAC contractors does not do boilers, but we have three options. I don't know what could reach out to

saying Councilman Bangader because it only had to be listed for five days and it was there for 17 days. So my response to them is obviously they're not interested in work that's on that's on the website to bid on-c because they didn't bid on it. A lot of a lot of contractors are not interested in governmental work. That's what then that's what I'm saying. Maybe they're not. I mean, I want to support local business for various reasons, though. And so, they don't they don't recruit or they don't. But it's not right for us either. I want to support local business, too, but it's not right for us to pick up the phone and start calling our local businesses to bid and not go through the process. We We at least still have to go through the process. I

This isn't like us selecting something at our homes. It's going through the process. You know, I use local guys at my home project. They could have bid. It was on the state website. They didn't Cameron actually said that he had called the other two. Why didn't we call the other? If we if two calls went out, he did identify two companies and they were called. So why we call three in our city?

Because they're they are the companies that have worked on our system and are familiar with them. I've never worked with Salmon or any of those other companies. In fact, I did I do know one, but they don't do boilers. Okay, this is a commercial thing. And I that's who I'm comfortable with. I mean, I'm a I'm a general contractor, too. And if I want to go looking for jobs, I peruse those um notices, and that's would be part of my business plan. If if you're busy as a general contractor because you're you're competent and you have a lot of referrals, you don't have to look for work on the governmental role,

but you can still be available for work that you might be very interested in in your own city. So, all I can say is I follow I know one of the names and I know him very well. So, I'm going to call him up and say, "Are you interested in city work?" If so, I'm I'm going to let you know when that's happening. If you want to give me the other names, we'll do the same. They may not be interested in city work. Do you know that they're interested in city work? Mayor, they may not be. They may not be. But that's is it not in the best interest of of Centerville City to participate and partner with our local businesses who contribute so much to the city. What do we have to lose? What that's what I'm saying. I'll I'll call them up and I'll say, "Hey, are you interested in our city work?"

Okay. Okay. Then I'd like to make a motion, you know, but we postpone the Can I make a motion? If we're done asking questions, that you guys done asking questions? I I'm done. Okay. So, do we have a motion on this?

I'll make a motion that we postpone the approvals be because I'm hearing we've lived with this problem. I talked to Brent today. I don't want to have our employees, our staff, our administration here in total discomfort because we're freezing the rest of the winter. But I think we've endured it as we are for a few weeks. So, I'm going to make the suggestion proposal uh uh the word the the motion. There we go. that we postpone approval of this of of this bid for two weeks and reach out to at least the other the uh licensed the well the HVAC contractors within our own city and give them an opportunity to to bid this project. Uh I personally have a very good acquaintance who did multiple projects for the church who lives in Roy. I highly suspect because he was usually extremely competent and and uh underpriced from many of the other contractors because the way he operates his business. And I would suggest that somebody like that have a crack to look at it to to bid. But that might not near as important as the four contractors in in our area. And I would I would hope that that staff that all of us if you have resources to know of people who might help us save some money and have good recommendations that we'd we'd feel okay about receiving a recommendation for for uh somebody to help us that we might have

familiarity with. Uh we know how good a attorney Shayin is and recommend her if we're looking at a labor dispute. I mean and North might not know about that if I if I mention somebody like it just seems so common sense. And so this one I know we didn't I didn't have any knowledge that we were going to be replacing a boiler. I would have told Brent, you know, man, let's get a let's get a bid from from this individual and certainly our four our four contractors in the city that are in that line of work. So, okay. So,

is there a second? Yeah. Is there a second so we can Okay. Comment. And when I before I do, just just a minute. And when I second, I'm going to say Cameron, I appreciate all your work on this. I really do. I just feel like it is a good idea to expand it a little bit more to the city companies and see if we can get uh some interest in this and if we don't we'll come back to what you've done but I feel like this is but Councilman Bangader's suggestion I would agree with I my concern let me just step in. Yeah. From administrative standpoint here's the challenge. This is a sealed bid. So when we get my question cards are playing right now. I don't think you can roll it back.

So this is a sealed bid. So it would be completely unethical for us to open this back up particularly since other parties have seen what other people have bidding. So you're I I would argue point taken for future projects. But this one it would be completely unethical for us to undo and reopen a bid that's already been divulged and shared publicly. Now Lisa, I'll let Is there anything else? No, that's what I was that was my question. That is unfair. That is unfair to the two to the two.

But I think you also have to be careful about not providing special privileges for certain companies or others which is under our ethics act. So this is government. We have a procurement policy. I'm happy to give you a copy of it. If it's over $30,000, we have to follow formal bidding procedures. So that's what this one is. Informal. If it's under 30,000, we can get on the phone and call three people. That's all we have to do. So, we may be more similar with the church in terms of something under $30,000, but over $30,000, we are required to have formal bidding procedures and a sealed bid. And yes, the council can either accept this tonight, you can reject it, you can reject all bids, but we cannot go back and table it so that our friends and family can bid on this.

It's called independence in my profession. And now we're not required to have three bids. We we've left it open and we're not required required to post it on the state want website and follow state procurement policy which has happened. So, if we put it out and we only get two bids back before we even open the bids, we could potentially reopen it to get that third bid, but we can't um open them and say that's not enough and we want a better pricing. If we open it up, maybe we get better pricing. We can reject them all. You we always reserve the right to reject all bids and start over. But, you know, we you're not going to get people bidding on your projects if you play games like that,

right? Okay, I'm gonna take a little issue, Lisa, with you inferring that we can't do otherwise and invite our family and friends. Uh, that's offensive that you would infer that. That's not what I was doing. And and then I do not understand the procurement the state procurement laws. I understand they may be different, but from what seemingly was explained, we can in they don't have to be on the state registry list, but it's recommended we should get good pricing if we use that list, right? But we can invite contractors outside of that list or not. So the state contract so you're either an in we follow informal or formal bidding procedures but you can do away with both those procedures if it's an exempt purchase. So for instance, if you are going to hire an attorney, you don't that is professional services that we want to have a relationship with and understand them. And so we don't even have to go out for bid for those kinds of services. And the state contract is one of those exemptions. If if the state has already negotiated prices at the state level, cities and and other governmental entities can rely on that state negotiated price. we don't have to go through these formal bidding procedures for that. So there is a laundry list of of things that are you know or sole source or emergency. So, for instance, for a while sometimes carrier was our sole source because it it's all of their equipment. But at this point where we're going in and and changing such a big portion of it, um I do think that the formal bidding while we were not required to because we could have found one of those exemptions under the state contract, we said no, let's try to get better pricing and and have

this competitive uh formal bidding process. So does the state so do these companies that are on that register have a an advantage over Centerville companies that provide the same service potentially. I mean when you get a state contract which is very thorough process to get a state contract um it's highly competitive but ultimately if you get a state contract right it's you have to require certain warranties you have to require certain things to get state contract which sometimes the service

is better like you get better warranties going through state contract but you're also paying for that warranty right so there's some level when you go through the state contract it is more competitive they do have advantage because some cities particularly smaller cities who don't have staff to go out through the through the formal RFP process can go to the state contract. The unfortunate thing is they may overpay unless they bid it out, right? So, there is an advantage potentially for those businesses, but some businesses have chosen not to. Let's talk about like Young is currently the the state contract to provide vehicles for state vehicles and counties and so they have the contract. It doesn't necess Ken Garf or other cities don't necessarily want it and they didn't bid on it because they didn't want to meet the state requirements to get that bid. So, there's all sorts. not easy to get a state contract, but when you get it, you have certain warranties with it. So, does that help?

Yeah, I I'm not certain if that was the question, but we have five factors or more um in terms of So, we wouldn't necessarily just because you have a state contract in Centerville, our procurement agent doesn't necessarily give them an advantage over anyone else bidding Centerville or not. We're gonna look at how long have you been in the business, you know. So that that's fair. So I'm just saying the state contract. Is it the low? We don't it's called lowest responsible bidder. It's not just the lowest. We don't have to pick the lowest. You know, we can say where Yeah, we're

Lisa says, "You know what? I could put in a boiler." And she has no experience in it even though she only offered to do it for 10 grand. We're not going to select lease to put in the boiler. Right. Yeah. They don't that's not the lowest responsible bidder.

So the question comes up uh my best example I have is on the pickle ball courts. We had some numbers come back which some of us weren't happy with and said we felt we could get this lower. Did we got formal bids on that and we rejected those bids and went back out? Is that what we did or was that just estimate? We had a cost estimate that was significantly high and it was felt that we would get it for a better price and when we put the RFP out if I remember correctly it did come in quite a bit lower right I think that's what happened removed amenities to bring it within yeah we we did take some amenities out too

so on a situation like this it's uh either accept or reject it is that right that's that's my opinion is I agree with Brandt that it's unethical to open sealed bids and then roll it back. I don't think we can do that. And no, well, Lisa has confirmed that as well too, it sounds like. So understanding that I agree and I rescend my earlier motion but I hope

we can resolve this in a way and so that moving forward we can utilize resources available locally and hopefully save our city taxpayers some some expense and some revenue

and and I will share again what I shared with our conversation earlier. There is always the intent of trying to include our local vendors. Bryce does a really good job trying to include our local businesses. Uh Bruce has always done that as well. We always try to do now now to put forth and say on everything we do, we don't know all business. So we say, "Well, they're capable of doing this." And I mean, if you're asking us go a little bit further and research every business here, are you capable? That's that's a little bit of work. We can just advertise. We put it on our website and maybe we can do a better job saying, "Hey, local businesses, please always look at our solicitation." And we have it in like 10 different pages right now, right? Bryce is giving me grief because I'm speaking with my hands. Um, but we can do a better better job of again just trying to point our business to that. And that's where council you can all help us saying go look at our solicitations. I I think it's going to be hard for us to try and find well there's this bid for how many businesses here can are capable of and then we're making phone calls that might be an unfair advantage in the 30,000 plus where we have formal bidding. Again, we've just got to be very careful about how we select businesses. Can we can we put some kind of like I know with the state procurement like the contracting there when when our company has watched for things we can sign up for emails through the bidding services that let us know like oh here's a job

particular Utah public notice website there's a way that they can sign up and get an email that says oh centerville is looking for a new boiler and maybe the city can just put a button on the website that says if you want an email about things we're looking for for procurement. We don't have any room for any more buttons, but I that's fine. But Bryce does have it on like several pages of

I just know there's several websites that offer, you know, that go out and hunt for those things and them back. The point I was getting at going back to the very important start of this discussion owning a business myself and working with uh all my clients being closely held businesses as well too there's a certain way they pick up their businesses and uh if they if if Salmon or since you threw out that name I don't want to use particular names but since it was thrown out or any of our other local businesses is that if that's I've always felt if that's their way of picking up business then they are registered with the state website and they're seeing when bids become available and determining if they want to bid or not. I uh you know that's that's that's how my businesses operate and that's how I operate. I mean you know uh maybe they don't want to do government contracts, maybe they do. I don't know. But but uh they should have somebody in their marketing that's looking for that stuff. And we and we certainly could say, "Hey, if you're interested in in uh our work, you know, get involved with that website, you know, but

I would love to use Centerville businesses, but I also think we need to be really careful. If we don't know who all the HVAC companies and we notify four, and I own the fifth, I'm going to be pretty tick."

I thought the same thing. And so I would rather have them on our website and then somehow notify all the businesses in Centerville. This is where we're going to put if we're looking for something so that I mean I know we we had problems once where even our rec center did a somebody was willing to give a real discount on dance lessons. But I had other dance teachers calling me and going why did you use them? I'm like, well, because they offered us a good deal, but I wasn't in on any of that. But that would be my only concern is making sure that we do um sorry that we let everybody know and be fair about it. I don't want somebody to be coming and saying, "You let three companies know, but you didn't let the fourth and fifth know." So I think we need to have it in an area where everybody's looking or do you see what I'm saying? I don't want

I I understand that. I understand that perspective. There's a look I'm a huge proponent of using senator. Better ask four of them though and miss one than ask zero. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.

I don't know the answer to that either. That would just be my only concern is I don't want somebody calling me mad and saying, "Hey, you asked so and so and so and so and you didn't call me, you know, and I might know that they're an HVAC, but I don't think about it." Or I didn't know we were putting it out for bid for boilers. I mean, so I I don't know, but I do I do would like to somehow advertise a little bit better to our city businesses. I think that's a great idea. Do we I do a motion? Yeah, you rescended a motion. He rescended. He rescended. So, did you have one last thing? And then we need a motion on this.

Thanks, Mayor. I just wanted to publicly apologize to council member Bangador, my reaction to my ethical concerns with my flippant comments. So, I apologize. Thank you. Nothing. We're good. Thanks, Lisa. Okay. Yeah, let's do a motion on it. I'll make a motion that we approve the bid award for the Centerville City Boiler replacement in the amount of $69,100 to mechanical system and service. Second.

Can I ask a question, Cameron? Uh why what's the difference? Um is carrier going to give better or have better parts? Is their labor more expensive? It's the exact same thing. So, I don't know. Yeah. And so I mean philosophical reasons why some companies will overbid because if you're going to give me the work, I'm already booked out. But if you're going to pay this price, I'll I'll prioritize your job, right? Council member Banganger. I mean, right? You if you're already worked, you throw out prices and if you take it, great. If you don't, then that's okay, too. We're already booked. So, but there's no difference. It's we're not using uh parts that are

inferior inferior which was I'm assuming was part of the procurement process is that I very specific things were identified and yeah we've learned in the water department to be very specific on what you're requesting in parts right we even did a pre-construction meeting where I had them come and look at everything measure make sure everything was going to be the same and then I even sent out an addendum with their concerns They they probably had an opportunity to ask questions and you didn't add them to address those. Yep. All right. Let's vote. Councilman make them I nay. I I

I passes 4 to one. All right. Let's go to minutes for appro approval of February 3rd work session February 3rd city council. Uh do I have a motion for approval on those?

I do have Hang on. Got to find it. Um on the work session under my priorities it says improve telecom telecommunications franchise agreements. I'd also I I think in that meeting I also talked about just city policy about some of those things would not necessarily be included in a franchise agreement. Um some of the things that I brought up which are mentioned below would just be part of city policy. So, I guess I'm saying improve telecommunications policies and franchise agreements. Okay. Can you see where that is? Yeah. This one. Telecommunication.

Yeah. Sorry, I should have given you a page. No, you're good. But you got it. Policies and franchise.

Okay. Uh I I also have a recommendation on the list that Councilman Bangader provided and put forth. It's it's identified several of them there. Uh preceding the fourth dot if you're looking at that Jennifer uh protecting the neutrality of city council dis I did state and I would like it identified there. I would make a recommendation that we address that issue only if the continuence of the display of the non-approved flag continues on the city dis that was both written and spoken verbally. And then there are two proposals that were overlooked or somehow didn't make it on my list and I would just like to make sure that they are included and that being the uh the recommendation for a discussion on all city department heads attending all city council meetings and the other one being the consideration of a citizens public relations committee and those were discussed were mentioned verbally and handed out physically and I would like those included in the minutes.

All right, do we have a motion? I have one more. Sorry, I can go.

Are you okay if I just With regard to the change that council member Bangador suggested, he's indicated that he wants the addition on the fourth bullet point of his list to be only if the nonapproved flag continues. I think that that is ambiguous as to what it is what who is approving and not approving because I am displaying my pride flag in my personal capacity exercising my first amendment speech rights. It's not something that has been approved or disapproved by the city council. Um so rather than say that I would propose that it read only if the display of a pride flag by council member Haymon so that it's clear that that is what you're referring to. I chose not to particularly call you out, Councilman

Hman. I'm totally fine with being I I think that we need to be specific. So, if that is what is intended, then I that would be my recommendation. Let's just say it. I'll accept that amend amendment.

Jennifer, I'm sorry. My only change is on mine. Um, one of mine was to keep spaces open for current um, don't remember how I said it, but I didn't want to overbook our work. Yes, I current issues. I did not want to overbook our work sessions so that we did have room to deal with current issues. Okay. Thank you.

I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes as amended by Council Member Hurst, Council Member Bangader, Council Member Haymon, and Council Member Vikum. I'll second. Motion second. All in favor? I I uh Okay. Council report. Councilman Banger, uh report on your committee assignments. Do I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm sorry. When is the appropriate time to request that these get added to the record? Would that be after the entire session or is that the dad? Is that what your issue that you're requesting? This is the Riley comments.

The the Riley comments. Would that be appropriate after uh minutes to add that to to request that these get added to the record? I think you can request it any time during the meeting. Okay. Interrupt anywhere. Say, "Hey, what these attention?" Mayor, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I apologize, but can we uh add these the Riley comments to the record, please? Yes. Thank you. Cool. Thank you. All right. Uh Councilman Banger, do you have anything on Dual Creek and Centerville Citizen Corp?

Dual Creek quickly hopefully uh just uh Councilman Hurst enlightened us last time she reported on this. There is a a big concern about the urgency to get the meters in for funding. Uh we are they are struggling to get parts and and so there's been some delay. Uh there's also some other concerns that I've appreciate a chance to talk with Gina and the mayor alone with about the board. Okay.

Uh that's enough on on Dual Creek. Oh. Oh, I did want to mention I don't know the appropriate place to do these kinds of things either, Brian, but it respected water conservancy and talking about dual creek here. A resident of Centerville passed on to me something that he had happens to be Gary Smith who owned JNL garden centers. a very good document here about using bath water and preserving energy or waste water during our current drought and the situation we're in. Uh I I I just think maybe the city maybe Bryce take a copy of that and if somebody inquires you've got a little information I I think there's some good points came from a citizen in our city. Okay, that's Dual Creek. Uh the other committee is the citizen Centerville Citizens Corps met with the chief and his group at our our IOC building down here. They're tremendous. A lot of good things going on. Want to make you aware with that that on April 16th will be the Great Utah Shakeout, which is the mock uh earthquake preparedness that we'll we'd ask everybody to participate in, city to be aware of and maybe advertise. And then on September 26, Chief, was that date confirmed? September 26th for the the uh emergency preparedness fair.

Uh no, we're still confirming that date. Right. We're still exploring on whether there's enough interest as a county amongst emergency manage managers to hold a preparedness fair on on the countywide level on that date. So we we do have a meeting set where we're going to be talking about it soon. So, okay, that is a tentative date that we have set aside, but nothing's been decided.

They had some great discussion about whether to do some interactive stuff with that fair and do some things that might uh elicit more desire for participation. Uh on my committee with the Davis Chamber of Commerce, just will make you aware that uh both mayor and I involved with that committee. uh that opportunity. Uh I will probably be plugging into the legislative affairs end of the Davis County uh Chamber of Commerce and following some things with businesses and economic development. Hopefully opportunities that we can take advantage of here in Centerville. That's all thank you.

Thank you. All right. Um, anybody else have anything critical to uh their committees?

Yeah, I do. Um, I'm going to pass these I passed them officially to Jennifer first before um I have been on the committee for the South Davis Greenway Trail and um that's in just the planning stages. Um it is a trail that will run from Farmington down through Centerville into Bount Salt Lake. Um I'm giving you a newspaper article um a couple I think it was was it 2023 that the state legislature did set aside money for a trail network. Um so I we right now the way this is is it's a plan and there's no funding. So um that would either land on the cities to fund it or we would need to look for other sources. So um with that this this is um there aren't too many property owners along frontage road as you look at this particular handout. But um the the trail then the proposal then comes up Chase Lane and goes south along 400 West connecting to 200 West in Bountle. Um they are going to be getting there is a little video clip that they have that I believe is live on their website. Did Mike send that to you? I'm just trying to let you guys know these um this information is going to go out to property owners along 400 West so that they know what is coming um hopefully the end of the week. Correct, Mike? And so this is just mainly letting you know this is in the planning stages. There's no set plan to construct this trail at

this point in time, but this is a multi-ity effort. Um it's being funded by the WFRC. And um with that, let's Would you guys be interested in seeing the little video clip that they did? This is several um elected officials talking about the project just so that you're familiar with it. So if you have questions from residents, I just want to try and get that information to you for watching this. Yeah, let's go. This is the right one. I I guess. Is that the right one, Mike? I haven't I haven't got on the website. So,

I hear it from citizens all the time that they love places to walk and bike with their kids on their own, go jogging. In Davis County, uh we have a great mountain trail network that we've been working on, but what we're lacking is our active transportation, our ability to move people safely around the city.

The South Davis Greenway is a big idea. is going to be a separated pathway and it's going to allow users to be able to get to and from different places but do so in a way where they're separated from traffic so they feel safe and they have plenty of room to navigate. This project will include um active transportation users that are not comfortable engaging with the current situation with vehicles. We have road widths that are wide so that we'll have plenty of space to accommodate vehicles and the greenway and some buffer space that'll separate the two. It'll really make for a pleasant experience for both those in cars and those utilizing active transportation. The great thing about this is it goes kind of through the community and so that helps in accessing commercial areas, our library, some of our schools and parks and it provides then a beautiful way for you to get from point A to point B. I think there's been some good stuff into where the actual greenway would be located, how it connects between the cities.

It's kind of going to serve as a backbone to the community. It's going to be able to provide more trail access to thousands of our residents. Really, the most important thing I think is just the um familyfriendly fill of this corridor that we can create and make it accessible or being sure that your kids have a safe ability to travel and you know, maybe pop down to Main Street for some ice cream or maybe even commute. They could get to the front runner station in Farmington or they could go all the way to downtown Salt Lake City. Just the health of our community in general.

Can we work together city to city, North Salt Lake, Bountiful, Centerville, Farmington uh to create something that uh serves our residents across all of our cities. The coordination between the cities, I believe, is really really good. It seems like everybody is kind of on board, wants to make this happen. When our cities work together, we're driving down the cost a little bit, the cost of designing it, engineering it, and we can pursue costs of money that are out there uh much more effectively together.

The feasibility study is going to run through the summer of 2026. partners will then begin to assess how to fund and and figure out when the project will take place. Go to southdavisgreenway.org. We'd love to hear from you.

So, I think the the main thing is that they're going to be letting homeowners along potential routes. Not just homeowners, there's a lot of businesses, especially in Centerville, because it is cutting through on 400 West. So, that's the main thing. And then obviously with any plan um hopefully we can tap into some funding. The governor has a trail network initiative. The legislature did approve several million dollars for that. And this does align with the master plan. The reason I picked this particular newspaper article is because that shows you where you can go and look at the trail network master plan. they show a little bit different alignment um than 400 West, but um probably 400 West is the better opportunity to to have a project like this work. One of the things that the property owners are going to be um ex the thing that they're going to have explained to them is that it doesn't impact private property. It will impact public rightway. um it could impact um parking or some other things around their homes that that we want them to have a chance to weigh in on. So, will they allow electric bikes on it, electric scooters? I it really this is an urban trail so I I don't know if there will be rules or regulations on speed but I would think that as long as you're obeying you know that might be a city decision that we have to make but

but since it's a I would assume that it's a multi-use path it is a multiuse path but whether or not they're going to deny electric we haven't talked about any without stuff. The the idea really is um to create connectivity not just not just for um recreational getting to some of those places, but also it's a potential way for people to get to the bus or and that's why I was I mean a lot of people that are so we could we could tap work on their electric bikes.

We could tap into DOT lastmile funding. Um there's that's why I think it's important that we understand that. And then as this is finalized, we obviously need to we want to start looking for funding. Um some of that can possibly be some of the funding could possibly be taken care of with the um I-15 expansion. You know, what's going along road? We do have UDOT is going to improve some of the sidewalk and obviously that's kind of a double. It all kind of aligns. So, I don't know. Did I miss anything? Mike. Okay. Anyway, can I pause the project?

Can I pause and give a shout out to Bryce for the super great way that our new logo looked on the jacket that you I know. And I wore it. How much it popped comparison to the other cities. So, way to I I had another I think I was coming from LPC that day or something. And I had to run home and get my jacket and I was like, "Oh, I'm so glad I have a Centerville logo to put on." So say, "Yeah, I look good." These part of the record. You look good in the jacket. I'm sorry. What? Do we want these as part of the record?

I don't need them to be part of the record, but I think it's fine. It was just more informative. So if you get some questions, you have a couple of things to kind of look at. Thank you for asking. Yes. Thanks. Uh, okay. I'll be quick on my report. Uh, February 25th, I got an email. The chamber's doing a ribbon cutting uh for the new Caldwell Banker Realy offices here in Centerville at 12:30. They wanted me to uh about a 20 minute thing. uh they wanted me to say a couple minutes of comments and invite all the city people. Um remember uh March 18th and 19th our budget retreat. Um, I attended legislative night at the at Centerpoint Theater where uh a week ago Monday where they invite um the elected senators and representatives uh to come and we had probably a dozen or so. Uh it's a little different ones every year, but couple from St. George that were in town and uh and and it was it was nice and and Ced Point took care of them well and and Danny told him a bit about the theater. I want while we're on that vein, I want to remind all you that you probably will get invitation. If you don't, don't blame them, but if you haven't already, you will. April 10th is community night at CPT where they're inviting uh city councils uh from our our cities in southern part of Davis County. Uh and I asked Danny if I could pass that on and he said great. Uh so that's April 10th. Um, uh, the youth council did their day at the

Capitol last week instead of tomorrow and, uh, we juggled it around a bit and I was able to go down. I, uh, missed the first hour or so, but, um, uh, Kate Dreamer, the, um, youth mayor, did a great job organizing things. Um we um Paul Representative Cutler took him around from 7 to 8 a.m. and then uh Senator Adams met him in the Senate chambers at 8:00. Uh they just had Senator Adams 101 on on the floor of the Senate for a half hour, 45 minutes and then we went to committee meetings. Uh after that split out to two different groups, committee meetings. Um and uh that that that was that was a treat. Um and then um after that uh went sat in the gallery and represented Cutler did his best to bring them all down to the floor and uh then they grabbed some lunch after. But um I was talking to some of them and some of them said a couple of them said that's their favorite event and so it it it turned out pretty well. It was busy day at the cap. Lots of kids were up there that day from buses and that sort of thing. Uh remind you of the ongoing Episcopal dinner uh that they have another one tomorrow night 6:00 at the Episcopal church. And then the last thing obviously is um uh LPC uh specifically HP 184 uh that's rewards bill uh the league of city and towns uh has taken a very strong position and I happen to agree with them on most of the points and I don't know that I've ever seen so many cities and towns in in agreement with uh how they oppose that bill And um Representative Cutler sits on the board that's going to hear that. They're going

to hear it again tomorrow. Um we met with uh Cameron Dill, Jean and I after meeting today and he just said, "What do you just have and not let it come out of committee? Uh but uh I think it's going to um I've texted Representative Cutler and heard back from him. Um I've also texted Representative Ward. I don't know that I'll hear back from him or not, but um uh Jean just has got a two-page hand out here on on on why why we oppose it, but um

this was this was given to us today at LPC. Um if you'd like a copy, I can get you one. We didn't know when we when we came in tonight that it was going to go back to committee tomorrow. That was that's been a late decision. We are receiving an action alert on that one. So, in your email, you'll probably have an action alert to reach out to representatives on that, but you probably want to know why you're calling them. So, if you're going to call or text them, uh, read this and see if you agree with it or not. I mean, yeah, it's we don't expect it doesn't help to just oppose it. You've got to Yeah, we don't help them with specific things that are concerning directly to Centerville.

Do we feel like do we know if color is for or against? I think that there is a lot of desire to find some some affordable housing options that make it a little bit easier. Unfortunately, this bill does not, in my opinion, the things that they're trying to do to make it easier are actually in my they're concerning to me. They undermine our zoning. they undermine um the legislative voice of the cities and the people.

Um I I'm worried when they say, "Well, they should just be able to turn in a sketch and within a very short amount of time get approval for that." Um anyway, they they go through very spec I mean, this is packed with information. So, and I I probably agree with most of it. and we don't know where he's standing right now. Um I when I sent him a text a couple of weeks ago um he said cities can say no but the problem is it sets a precedent that I just I if we if we do say no and we don't have a really solid reason why I think it's asking for potential litigation at some point it the state has said this is the preferred way to do it Right. And so then if we say no and we don't have a you've got a short amount of time. I think they've increased the time a little bit, but I don't I'm not familiar with where the third revision is at. So I would just say this is all based on the third revision. So

which bill is it again? House Bill 184. for I I think there was some thought that if it could just be held then it can get worked on in in the interim but if that doesn't happen I mean we they did they did say today please pay attention to this one and when that action alert comes out they need a response so that so Gina help me when we we're not voting because only you and the mayor and Bren voting, but you're just we can that's solid soliciting our input to our representatives. Yes, exactly.

And I don't know what the action alert says. I saw it pop in on my watch. It's come in since we've been in council. Let me just It's pretty detailed. It kind of goes over the points that were shared. Yeah, it says tell your legislator on the House Economic Development and Workforce Services Committee. So, that would just be Representative Cutler for now. He's the vice chair on that committee. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think it's it's one message. I mean, you're welcome to call Representative Ward is is one of our representatives. So, you're welcome to call him as well and express your thoughts if you want to do that as well.

And and when we had our work session with all of our representatives, I mean, I stated that I'm supportive of finding solutions. Unfortunately, I don't think this is the solution. And um I it could be worked on and maybe get there, but there's it's blurring some lines that just do not follow typical city standard process through the planning commission and then through the city council.

I can't find any of our southern cities that are in favor of it, including including Battlefield where where it was. Yeah, we we had a few members of the Bountiful LPC contingency today and they they were very aligned that it's let's let's find a solution, but this isn't quite right. Now, since this is a House bill, what about Senator Wy? Should we be contacting him? I think right now it's just Representative Cutler because he's on that specific committee, but because it's Representative Ward's bill, Representative Ward, it's his bill. Uh, so

I think Mike Egggot listens in and I've seen a nodding of head too. So, um, I haven't talked with him specifically about it, but uh, doesn't sound like he he loves the bill either. Not at all. So, I talked to Gary Hill walking to the car. That's uh today that's Battleful City Manager. Mhm. And uh they're not in favor at all. They're not in favor. Mayor Bradshaw wasn't in favor. So, and I've talked to mayors and city managers of our other southern Utah southern Davis cities as well, too. So, anyway, if you'll give me a second, I'll get you a copy of this. This is this is all I've got, but we'll

That was the big one. Ice knows how to help me get a copy for you. So, that's a big one. We have an action alert on uh were you did you did you have any others that um

I do think I I do think that we should I'm not exactly sure where um House Bill 501 is at. That is a water bill that is in order to receive state funding. Um the city would have to be at 1 and a.5% modified adjusted gross income into the water fund. Um we've talked about this when we increase the water fee a few years ago. That's how I calculated what I felt like was the affordability guideline. That's what um the Division of Water Resources does to calculate when they do a loan. The issue with that bill is they have exempted um they've exempted secondary water which I include in those calculations because we and we don't control what the secondary water companies charge us and so but in talking with Justin Lee after the meeting today it's they have removed the 2031 mandatory you will participate in this. So, I don't I don't Justin said they will not change the language because they they exempted secondary water fees out of it. So, they're not going to put it back in. But, I don't think it would hurt to just it it doesn't actually work. It's not fair. If a if a city doesn't have secondary water and they use their culinary water to water, they get to pay less. They're they're paying one and a half percent and we're going to have to pay more to qualify for state funding. So, there's some issues with it. I am going to reach out to that one's by Representative Bullander. I'm gonna reach out to him about that, but my understanding is they're at this point I don't think the league is as concerned about that just because it's um they're not going to require

cities to join by 2031 to participate by 2031. There's still all the property tax bills. Uh we discussed those a lot. They're still working through those. We did

slidal pulls on those. Those are the ones they're cutting cutting back your reserve. that's you can have um uh what are other provisions that uh that they did. Of course, President Trump came out last week saying abolish property tax as a whole and so there's no bill like that out there right now, but some of the the House members are feeding in that way. So anyway, but there's no action alert on those right now. So, all right, Brandt, city manager report.

All right. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Uh, you addressed a lot of the LPC or the legislative topics. Thank you. So, really the only thing I have to report is the website goes live tomorrow. Uh, Bryce has been working really hard on this, working a lot of late nights. Um, and of course, he's got staff and other other staff members have helped. So, again, there's a little bit of kinks probably just on the roll out, but we have to get rolled out because the other one goes dark. And so we're getting it out there, but if you see anything that please let us know of any errors or things we can add, but we're we're slowly getting everything going, pictures and information. So be patient, but please look at it, check it out, let us know thoughts, but we're pretty excited about it.

Will it continue with the notifications to the public who have signed up for for notification of public meetings? I presume no. I think that's part of Civic Plus. um only. Yeah, we'll have to figure that out.

I don't Yeah, we don't have a lot of people who have signed up. So, we might be able to reach out. Yeah, we we need to do a big push to get people to sign up. We haven't really advocated for that just yet. But that's once we get this new website live. And that's been the problem is we've been kind of in this two years now kind of waiting on what we're going to do with the website. Um anyway, so yes, we we plan on doing a big big push and if you sign up for utilities, can we find a way to just start using emails from utility signups? We got to careful about that. Anyway, we we've got some things we got to work through, but we'd like to see more people sign up.

That one in particular worries me a little where we got the general plan coming up. How are residents going to know when our meetings are? uh every other way we post it. We'll still be doing all of the same noticing as we were before. Yeah. So, we'll still still publish things just because I don't get that email. I I don't know, Bryce. We can look at how many people have signed up. 13. We will we will visit their homes, shake their hand. I'm signed up. I'm one too. Bring them a fruit basket.

That means we have 11. One thing that Bryce and I were just talking about a couple days ago is right now on our website all of our public hearing notices. I'll just show you all of our public hearing notices show up on this news flashash section over here. And we're actually going to create a new page that's specifically for public notices for public hearings because it this news flashash it kind of gets intermingled with all of our other notices in the city. Um and so you really have to look through all of these. So we are going to have a a page dedicated to public notices and public hearings that people can go to to look for what's coming up in meetings.

You're not going to see this. This page is kind of a catch all. You're not going to see this anymore. The home page is going to be really clean, easy to navigate. Sure. Hope the mic picks up your voice back there. We'll see though.

Thanks, Bryce. You got anything else, Brent? No, that's it, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. That's questions for me. Any questions, Brent? All right. Need a motion to adjourn not to come back. I move that we go into close session. There you go. To discuss the purchase, exchange or lease of rail property with an intent not to return. All right. So, do we have a second? Second. Okay. I need a vote. Council me. I I I I I All right. killed.