Historic District Review Board - Regular Meeting

be so efficient. Um, do we have to restate all of the things that we said? That's right. Um, okay. So, the question is, do we replace the the uh the casing now? Because right now, am I not correct that uh the casing is, you know, the the siding is proud of the casing, right? Yeah. In all instances, but in this situation, I think it's worse, clearly.

Right. And um the question is whether or not we replicate what is there or we fur out the casing in order to make it aligned with the sighting. I mean I think it out is not that big not that big of a deal. You suggested that that would be doable, right? Um, yeah, it's it's it's I would just I would fur it out with whatever uh diameter material I need to um get it even with the siding is what we want. Yeah. Okay. That that I that's that's doable.

I think that that that seems ideal, right? because we can't really make predictions about the future about who may eventually someday replace or remove said siding uh or what condition anything else will be in. So for the best possible outcome for this application, I think that sounds right. I don't have those samples in front of me obviously. Um my inclination would be the the boral. I don't Do you guys agree with that? That's what you want. Well, that's what you would prefer is the boral only because that's significantly more weatherproof than the smooth surface. The smooth sural.

Okay. So, the the only hiccup with this is the they do not produce a sill nosing. Um, I can either fabricate an on-site fabricate a sill nosing, uh, which will just be with as thick of a material as they make. Uh, looks like they have Yeah, they have 2 inch. They have inch and a half. So, I would just have to fabricate a a slope nose um with that or the only the only material that they make a simulated nosing out of is PVC. Uh but this is a historical northern historical northern uh profile here. That's PVC. Um, the only downside to I guess there's not really a downside to to to fabricating an osing. Um, I just I don't know how this holds up being manipulated in that way.

Um, when you start being cut down when I have to I have to when I have to put an angle I you're basically putting two angles on it. Um I'm just not 100% on how this holds up to that. All the materials that we've approved that are composits um for trim specifically on sort of composite the thoughts right and so they must ex exist if you don't want to you know have to create one yourself. It's it's not I I can I can make anything essentially. I just I don't know how this holds up when it gets kind of manipulated in that way. Um

applications like if it would be if if these other materials would be of interest to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll take a look at him. Um well, I I right now I would prefer that he try with the boral first because then at least all of the uh Yeah. the sill and the the casing are all the same. Yeah. I can I can like I said, I can I can make profiles customly. Um I've I've done it many times so I have no issue doing that.

Okay. So here we have the application as it is now for windows 1 2 3 7 8 10 11 and 14 second story windows. Second story windows. Um the casing is to be brow and that also includes this the sill the window sills. Is there a drip edge at the top or anything? Good question. Uh, not existing. This one has a lower.

No, that's So, this this is an old awning system that they had on there. Um, those are going to have to be that that's going to be removed when I do the cutbacks. Those are at least the holes and all that are going to be are going to vanish. If you take the siding off and you find the drift beds, can you replicate it? Yeah. Yes. U but when I was looking at them up close, a lot of times when they do metal wraps over that drip edge,

they'll either cut them flush or they'll do a little um a little reverse bend up and over it. I didn't see a reverse bend up and over anything in these. So, they either cut it or they didn't exist. A lot of times the tower Yes. Yes. Uh a lot of if there is one could you make it in the same material?

So with the drip edge that that will stick proud of the siding then if we're doing flush with siding with the casing that that would be top of because the casing actually will go flat on top from what I remember that seeing the picture. Well, and not that, but on the front is where we have the casings. You know, for example, that that the casing goes flat.

Well, it depends. I I'll I'll I'll be able to look up and close, but but if we're if my casings are flush with the side with the J channel siding, the siding J channel, um that drip cap will then be proud of that. Is that okay? Or do we want to insert the casing so that the drip cap is flush? Drip cap would normally Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, we that is the application that we have right now. Do I have a motion concerning that application?

You can go for it. Yeah. Right. Making the Lauren is gonna make it, I think. Yeah. Well, but we're making it together. We can't do that. No, because somebody has to second it. Oh, right. We're the only ones here, right? Um motion to approve the application as modified. Um removing the existing window system, including casing, and replacing the new the sashes with a new window and replacing the casing with new casing made of boral to match the profile and dimensions of the existing casing. Yes. Including the drip edge. Yes. And the Yes. fur furred out to be even with the siding flush to the siding to the

the the the sill will be proud of the siding as well. Right. Sill and and weather cap. I I will second that. Okay, we'll start. Kate Lauren I I and I also all right so so that's you got it to approve the application as modified removing the existing window system existing window system including facing replacing sapping and window um for the up all of that can I just want to make

that that'll be and the certificate. Okay. No, actually that's much better. Thank you. Okay. Is any of this mine? Um Michelle, it looks for Todd, I think. Yep. Great. All right. Perfect. Thank you. Email you the uh CFA this weekend. Perfect. Thank you guys very much. I appreciate it. And We'll probably see each other going through. I've gotten a couple more minutes out already. Appreciate all. You guys have a good night.

Okay. All right. In the Zoom meeting this time. Hey, are we somewhere colder or are we still very warm? Oh, it's um it's warmer. I I think I can guess then. I think I know the answer then based on the wallpaper. You can probably tell it's Yeah, I did notice it. Okay. Um so, I'm going to try to be supervision. We played around with um Brian to me in case I have to. Yeah.

Um we played around with a whole bunch of different versions, a whole bunch of field measurements, a whole bunch of different approaches. I'm going to start with what I hope is a workable conclusion, but then can like in the interest especially of time, but then I'm happy to look back through all the different versions, but for a minute I'm just going to start there. Is that okay? Uh I'm going to ask to share my screen. Oh, and you've already given me to do so. Look at that. Okay. Oh. Oh. What do we think?

I can sort of do a little bit of zooming. There you go. There you go. Something like that. And I So I wanted to just start here and I can talk through the different things and there's lots of different versions. But maybe if I just give this a voice over quickly. This has this allows us to have a full deck at um uh nonrailing required sub30in height that is at the height. So this is the same height as essentially that uh stone stoop that's there. Now can you make it bigger so we can like look at the doors while you're talking?

Like the whole I'm gonna I'm sorry. I think I'm zooming and you're zooming. that you stay at the other. Can you change the view in the upper right corner to have the people on the right and then it will be um yeah side by side gallery the third down usually that can Yeah. Yeah.

Thanks. Could I just just really quick before we get into what this application is actually about because I've noticed a couple different of the the renderings. The two windows um on that first floor that we approved are supposed to be four over four. I'm almost positive which one of the renderings that I've saw had them drawn that way, but then other others that we've been looking at show them one over one, meaning one pane over over one pane. But I'm I'm pretty sure back when we did this months ago, they're round one.

Correct. And I'm happy to have them edit that to be whatever was approved in the I'm going to call it the two month ago version. Whatever that approval was. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So what So the windows in in real world will be what was approved during the last round. Okay. All right. So, what are we seeing as far as those double doors?

So, what we're seeing is the two existing historic doors to be put on a slider rail to slide to the right, which there's enough uh space for them to slide fully to the right so they don't break the vertical plane of the two buildings, the sort of dividing line between the two buildings. Um, and that allows them to be, and Todd, I think this goes a little bit to your point, although Ken and Angie did reaffirm. and they're like, "No, we plan to close them." But it then allows them to be even easier to sort of close in front of the glass doors. Um, it shows there's two approaches here. There's one approach is full width glass doors. This image is showing sort of side lights done in a style that is mirroring. So, sidelight, yeah, sidelights is the right term. sidelights that are sort of mirroring the style of the doors um of the historic doors framing the glass doors sitting inside the opening.

What is the um full width of that opening? Uh it's eight I don't know it might be like 711 or 81 but it's 8 feet basically the same as the existing doors the same width. So then the the historic doors would not be hinged but instead would be on a slider.

The sort of building envelope seal is created by the glass doors and the bed lights. So we achieve sort of like the the building envelope success is done with the glass doors but still keeping the sliding door or the historic doors there as sort of a a thing. It actually was in part inspired by Kim's showing that like extra door in in some old historic imagery there was like one more door right where this door is used to be there. I don't know what it was used for because unless they actually did have a porch at that time. I like

loading it. That's I would plan to just keep it. Oh, you mean the detailing of like the rail function. Yeah, I plan to put that behind the doors was what was sort of envisioned was so you're not seeing the rail, but they're sitting the rail is sitting behind the doors. You see it when they're open above the glass doors and then the glass doors would need to be lower. There might be some They're already Yeah, they're already a little bit lower than those doors are tall. That makes sense.

And then the sidelight feels fussy to me. Like I'm not sure. I think maybe I mean I appreciate this is a 3D rendering so you're not going to get into all the detailing here but I'm 4 feet is too wide for them but yeah it just looks like there's a lot going on in this specific image. Uh I I guess the question I have is that you don't need a railing for that portion to the left. I don't and I can get them to go with well you talk because it's not that I think it's like 30 in is the height difference.

All right. The the the question I would have is that they show one riser that's not allowed by the code needs to be either Yeah. Yeah. That step looks it needs to be either two two steps or a ramp. Now, there's no reason why if you're going to take this approach that you can't do a ramp. That's one.

So, we So, I do have an option that is I don't have that rendered in this sort of isometric style, but one option is two steps. Um, and then the other option is putting a ramp between the two for the back half, which allows for accessibility, which was one of the goals. But I do have a version that is two steps here as well. What's the overall distance that you meaning like from here to here? No, the overall distance from um the the side of the the inside of the of the door

to there. This width six feet. No, no, no. I'm talking about along the side from here. Because you you need to have a guard rail. Are you saying from here to here? No, from from there to the door to the other door. From here. here to here. Yeah.

Aha. Um I can probably try to figure that out for you. I don't know off the top of my head is 20,000 ft. Um because um there's a certain you need to have if you have a ramp and you need to have a guard rail. If it's one to 12, uh, and you get what you're going to. Okay. But if it's more than that, if it's like one one to 20, then you don't need a a guard ramp.

So you're saying if this were a shallow enough rise, I got I'm following I think now from all the way from the east or left edge to this point, if it's a shallow enough rise, no rails required by code, right? at the at the right ratio. And what happens to the bill cod doors? So they we've solved for them being flush mounted. They're not shown in this drawing, but they would be flush mounted sort of I'm going to call it the New York City style. So they are sort of in the deck surface um here where they sit now. And there would be no stairs on the the train track side.

And there's no stairs on the train track side. And is there an ADA accessible entrance on the other?

So this we would then have a ADA ramp that you know so I I like Al's idea. So, but for a minute before that was brought forth, which was sort of a big long gradu would be to set in a what we call sort of more of a furniture type piece that sits down that just covers the one, you know, what a six inch gap essentially here on that up against the flush to the building. um because it's a six foot wide depth and so essentially a three foot wide ramp that comes out I don't remember the measurement it was like 42 in or something like that for the 6 in but that is removable and not built into the structure that alleviate ates the requirement for another entrance door on the side on the one terrace side.

Yep. Yeah. 38 other versions, but but I tried to tried to hone in on all the key parts. So, are you planning to keep this weird detail here? Uh, no. That that's already been essentially repaired in the sighting. Todd, any thoughts?

Um, yeah. I mean, I I would I I think we're not going to have an answer on this tonight because you don't know the actual exact dimensions for code reasons, but I I think maybe Al, your suggestion um would be a more elegant solution. I think I I I I don't love the um I don't love the removal of the step right in front of the door. And then the fact that that step leading to the sidewalk is kind of inset into a decking feels kind of clunky and and modern or something to me. Um, as far as this the the rolling door um solution, I agree with Kate. Definitely no sidelights on the glass partition. Um, it would be if these are rolling along the exterior of the building, that is going to be quite proud of the existing siding. Um, which then introduces the question of kind of how does the how does this uh the surround work, the casing um detail um to kind of compensate and cover up some of the the mechanism there. Um, unless you were to do it in a fully exposed way that would maybe be more of a traditional kind of like barn, you know, barn door kind of sliding thing. I don't know which one really I would necessarily prefer. Just sort of throwing ideas out there because if you were trying to hide it. Um, and again, it's surface. It this thing is mounted on the surface of the the exterior of the building. It seems like you're going to we're going to add quite a lot of bulk around that. Um, which maybe is okay, but would need to be sort

of sused out. Yeah. I I would think for a building of this age, trying to hide that uh rail with a sliding door, it is pointless because uh it that wouldn't be what it wouldn't be hidden uh you know when it was built in the 1800s. Yeah, I think I agree with that. I I my take away from this conversation and maybe I heard wrong was that that was the intent though or or Brian is your intent to kind of have it all be exposed uh elements.

I'm I'm very open either way the way it's drawn is with the rail mechanism sitting essentially behind the face of the historic doors. But I think Todd, what you were referencing and Al, you're supporting from sort of like historic more of a utilitarian like, you know, is a is the kind where the rail sits above the the top surface of the door and the door is hung from it. That's even easier for me and I like that just as well.

Those are my initial thoughts. Do you have any um do you have a drawing of these doors that we could see here? Historic doors. Uh yes. Cleaner drawings so we can like have that. Have you you had a concern about how the existing front door on the left the main door how the existing stone there's a right now there's a stone um

there's a stone step up right to that front door the way the way that it's drawn now does not really it it something seems off to me about it. Um so I don't know if Al if Al's suggestion is feasible where it is a very um slight kind of rise to that entire structure to make it wheelchair accessible um which means that maybe that front corner is actually then at grade um and approachable from either way. Is there can we put that step up to the front door back or that leave that stone that's currently there there?

This doesn't have to be an inset step in this fashion. This brings this creates a step in from grade like at grade this porch essentially. You've got a great photo there and Todd I'm sorry you can't see this essentially photo I sent. Oh maybe you can. Essentially, the the stone is sitting just currently at this proposed deck height. And so, we could just have the deck go all the way to the property boundary, which is sort of the sidewalk. Well, if I remember correctly, this corner over here is actually higher than than Yes.

Um, what we're currently seeing. So my feeling is is that if you take the sidewalk at the corner and that's your starting point, you probably have even a a more gentle gradient to get to uh you know that that porch front of the the door. Well, the the from essentially where the curb cut is for the handicap at the street intersection is the like laser line level with the floor inside the building, which is what I what I was I think I think one of the things that got me last time was I thought I approached it with the railing the whole width and we've confirmed the railing can start from a height perspective can start at the the sort of the dividing line and only be to the right but it does because of the height of it. There is a railing needed for safety to the right of the dividing line, but this whole piece, the porch to the left or the east could be essentially at that grade the whole way across.

So Al, so Al, h, how do we determine whether your idea about this the entire length of this being a slight ramp, how do we how do we determine if that's feasible? Because to me that seems like the best solution. Do you does does everybody or my self-re code like I don't need to put that on you all? Yeah. Right. Yeah. And just their stamp on the on the drawing needs to make that determination. Yeah. I'm h Todd I'm happy to confirm that you know outside of this time and process. Kate and Lauren, do you agree with that? Um, did you say problem

and maybe no inset step? Like I'm also going to sort of It sounds like remove this concept of the inset step. Is there a way to keep that slab there? Yeah. Do all those things. The slab sort of it feels appropriate for that door. So it would be great. And I don't know. Does the porch have to be have to sort of bleed out that much or could it be tighter to the building so that it's I mean I I

I'm going to just brainstorm openly to try and like get there. I think you could in a what I will say sort of like to me feels a fake way in the you can achieve ADA access and do it in a way that like keeps the stone there but the stone is is like lifted and just like made part of the deck and the deck touches and tucks right up and around it. Articulating the moment. Yeah. So they do like nodding to the history but okay when you're working with it. Yeah. Seems great to me.

Okay. I I don't I think I'll have to look at the surface of the stone but I think it's actually quite like accept like I think it's fine from a surface. I think the only thing that you need to work out is that the sidewalk that goes in front of that um you're going to have to wind up dealing with probably a step in, you know, in that location or uh some you have to figure out what the difference is in the elevation there,

you know, because I agree raising the stone is probably a good idea, but um you know you you may wind up um having a couple of risers from the sidewalk to that that landing in the photo. It does not it that the stone. Yeah, that that the stone is really just one one step up. I mean, obviously I don't know the dimension sidewalk, but that looks appropriate. And then to the left of that um to the east you were planning on kind of taper in your original plan tapering that with a hardcape to the to the right. Correct. What if I sort of blend? So on the if we're looking at the thing if the stone sticks out straight from the door

Yeah. to the if we're facing the door to the left or east of the door is where I bring my the hardscaping flush and it's it's stone that touches up to stone. And then stone transitions to deck as opposed to deck cupping. The thing that felt weird to me was the deck on both sides of the stone. I agree.

Felt weird. But Todd, if it's well and everyone, if it's hardcaping that comes around the building and it will tuck in, it's probably like six inches that the hardcaping will tuck in in front of the building to mirror into the current large flag stone. And then the deck will really start about it's probably about four feet in to the edge of the building to the right hand side of the door or the west side of the door. Yeah, I think that is a is a better. So whether the hardscaping is is a is a flag stone or blue stone or brick or something. I

I would probably I mean I would go towards especially if we're keeping that stone I would go towards flag stone style. with a blue stone. I think it's blue stone. Like I would match. I wouldn't go brick, but I'm I'm I'm open to other alternatives, but that would be my guess. But a few times. Yeah, because you're talking about a flag stone path talking about something from here over. Yeah, we can actually far over and over. Yes. And then it just extends down that whole length of the Lara side of the building. Okay. which I've got here. You have drawings of what's happening here. I do.

Here you go. Up on the screen and I'm going to sort of zoom in a little bit. That good. So, what we're And now this isn't this is part of the application now or this this is part of the application now. Not the deck in the back. But not the deck in the back. Correct. um this these details here on this screen are wrong. They're not updated for this issue of the front that we're talking about. But so what we're talking about is sort of a flag stone here that goes all that right now it basically goes all the way out and then I would just carry flag stoning up to the five foot mark here

and then along the side of the building so it's fluid all the way back here. Mhm. Um and then the deck would pick up right at at at the surface height at the elevation that is the flag stone and along the whole depth that is the flag stone and then extend along the front of the building likely confirming with with the architect at a slight ever so slight rise that brings me up 2% grade kind of thing that brings me up to what then becomes a flat platform where we need to have the railing kick in. Does Does this need to come out here for ADA accessibility?

I would probably carry it to the sidewalk. Yeah. For for that that would be the reason to do that. And because then then you got wheelchair access here that then lets you actually get all the way in. But this proposal, you just have it here because they can't get up the steps. Correct. It was here. I don't know why that gap is there, but it was meant to be here.

All right. Well, we like it. I do. I think I might be under 30 minutes. Well, we should talk about the doors, though. Oh, sure. Like a lot, I think. Well, not a lot, but like we should maybe talk about these more. Okay. And and am I correct that we're not doing the stairs as you're showing it? Correct. That's why this is just the version that I had in print that pulled out that had the door in this kind of perspective. Okay. Uh how about the uh enclosure under the under here? So what I um had shifted it to was a it renders a little bit poorly. It's like the trellis car.

It's the trellis style vertical and horizontal match directly matching the house to the east of L terrace. Yeah. On the to the east of L terrace. Um in style white painted wood wood deck wood rail. Wood deck wood rail. Yeah. Something has to happen with these doors. I don't know the best solution given the width, but do you I'm happy to either frame it in so that the in the doors are actually just a little bit smaller from the inside

like the cladding just comes up to, right? And so then when this when this when the historic doors sit in front it's they're they're sitting like over the they're sitting where they were historically but then when you put pull them to the side the opening is a little smaller than it was historically. I think that probably would be a good idea so that when they are closed they actually potentially read as fully closed because you're you won't be seeing what's beneath it being or glass or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. You know if the corner uh aligns with the floor level there is no ramp.

Well it comes if the floor level aligns with up here but then the it does actually like slope down a little bit. I know but why why why would you do that? meaning take my level all the way across to here. And then you're essentially, you know, because you want to be level with the floor at the door, the the swing door. Yes.

Yes, sir. So, so you would want to maintain that elevation and then that goes straight across to the floor at the at the barn door. So, the only reason that you then have the uh the rail is because it is above the certain height point. At a certain height. Yeah. Now I and I chose to anchor it in line with a dividing line sort of irrespective of that to create the space. It's sort of seen a little bit better in that one. Um but essentially like you can see that it sits

Yeah. more vertically. Okay. Wait. Can you show actually that again? Mhm. It looks like the trellis is a little easier to read in the Oh, sure. And then these doors, are these different from the doors that you showed us last time? I the thing I would pivot would be to a dark metal. Um I have I have asked for but don't didn't get yet uh the exact options of color metal but essentially they but they yeah they've got numerous options of dark metal I just asked for

um and how does everybody feel about the trellis versus is it possible to do this to ask um this brick peer under it and then not do a trellis the brick Well, typically when we have brick peers, uh either the trellis is to the outside or trellis runs between the peers, but or would we require a trellis? Well, I I I think you know because the you know the building next door right across from Lun Terrace, it's got the u the lattice that trellis and lattice.

I think I'm just seeing this in in all the concrete. There's this little like brick pier down there that you can barely see, but I just think it might be nice to kind of use that as your bag for um Well, that's block. No, there's a little bit of brick in there. They use some bricks to fill a spot in. I don't think it's up here. It was a hole that they because I I saw it when I looked. You're you're talking it's like right sort of here. Yeah. I just I don't I'm wondering if it would look a little more utilitarian and less like domestic if they that was

Well, you know, I mean that that is a good point. I I think that um but see the thing is is that if we go with a wooden uh guard rail, uh I think I I find it a little bit more acceptable. Wooden guard rail. Yeah. The railing. Yeah. But I think the lettuce would you like that better? Yeah. Could we do brick and and lettuce?

Well, see see the thing is you still need to deal with the uh the portion of that porch which is to the left or to the east of that. Mhm.

And and that gives it, you know, again, that entire addition with the door and and the the guard rail um you know, is it its own um um aesthetic language as opposed to uh the original building which was to the left. So uh the question then becomes what do we do? I I I think I can very easily see that uh the part with the guard rail has the lattice but the other Yeah. The other part doesn't.

Okay. And maybe that becomes brick. Well, I think you're sort of saying this piece the sort of long triangle piece, right?

I don't know. I think I disagree with that. But I think if it's lattice, it's lattice the same way that the house east of Lterrace is. I I I don't love the lattice. But I I if it's if you know, it's clearly it's clear that this is not like a solid element of the foundation of the building. This is an add-on that then to me it's it's a wood deck and the lattice kind of makes sense the way that that house is. I think if it's solid, it's solid and if it's not, it's not. I do feel like the rest of this the block foundation um would be much more elegant with like a brick veneer or something on it on the sides of the building and the rear. But to me again it's like if if if it's lattice um and that house also goes from a pretty big drop off at the at the west side to like a nothing drop off. So it it you have kind of precedent for that that style and that triangular nature of it. Um literally right next door. I I don't think breaking that, you know, midway and then doing solid just to the left. Plus, then you are going to introduce these doors to the basement, which, you know, that's another element to then introduce. Um, whereas if we keep it all the lattice work, you've got, you know, presumably metal doors, I would imagine. You haven't mentioned what they are going to be, but you've got wood and metal.

That's correct. And on the brick um on this on this the foundation uh around Is the board supportive? Because that was actually part of my application was sort of the whole surround of the building. I had stone. I'm happy to shift to brick. I think that was the direction that the board was happy with. A veneer. A veneer. Uh yes, I I I agree with that statement. Well, so I'll include that in my sort of like the final details. Okay. So how do we proceed from here? Um

do we need to plan for the situation that could arise if if by code that the ramp al that you suggested does not work? Do we do we need to have a backup answer? It seems like maybe we should uh actually or no I think there is no ramp which which is I I hear you because that's sort of what I was I proposed the first time but that some of what I think uh solidly that was that the railing extended the whole way like

I I think that you need to verify that But even if there is a ramp, you know, it it would be so small that I I I don't think I'm concerned about having a fallback position. I guess I'll make sure it's what we're bringing before you as code compliant. Yeah. If we're comfortable now, are we fine if the flag stone steps up so that it's flush with So in your thing, it would then Right now it sits one step below the door and it would step up to be flush with the sill, right?

Do we have a problem with that? No, I think I I think that you know the lifting the stone was something that we acknowledged needed to be done because uh it would it would provide a handicap um access to that door. Lauren, can I follow that? Are we are are you suggesting that the the flag stone be raised to the the the entry of the the door? Yes. To the sill. Why why would we do that?

Uh because uh that would give you a handicapped uh well I guess then is the door handicap accessible? We don't need for the internal movements. It's like I think it can work for some I think some people can get through it with a wheelchair. I it doesn't meet requirement if that makes sense. I don't have a requirement to go ADA, right? I'm just seeking to be accessible. Well, I uh to answer your question, uh Todd, the as you go closer towards the corner of Lerris,

yeah, the the sidewalk slopes slopes up. So, from the from that level, you can put a a straight line going all the way across to keep the stone where it is without raising it. then you will in fact have to have a ramp.

Are you sure about that? Because the the picture that I'm looking at in Google Maps right now looks very much like four to 5 ft to the left of that current flag stone under the step. The the side I mean it could be an illusion, but it looks like the sidewalk slopes upward enough that you could fill that area in, which you would need to do anyways for your flagstone terrace, and it would very much meet the height of where stone is. Yeah, we agree. That's right. That's totally correct. So, the stone does not need to be raised. Well, in this image, you can see the stone hasn't been raised. And so, then there's a step up by the time you get to the barn door. So, we're just trying to reconcile that step, this step by lifting this platform to the left.

It's already higher as it is. I thought suggested that we would have be able to avoid that be by having a very very slight increase in in pitch from left to right across the front of the building. Right. But we could forgo that ramping al together if the two doors have equal. Yeah. Um and

I think what I hear if I if I'm hearing it correctly is the board is pretty open and if I go really closely tune the site and understand the site conditions and create something that like achieves these goals using the flag stone in place with hardcaping wrapping around the leras length of the building. um with then the deck only commencing slightly to the west or right of the uh swing door and ideally at flush level to carry us without a step or without ramping but if the if there is ramping needed it's probably so gradual and I will be responsible for confirming by some design that it's code compliant level ramp without railing needed and that it is a um shallow enough ramp that we don't need a railing or that Um, and then there's some brick details and some artistry at the table.

I'd like to seed my time to But I I do feel like this looking at this this corner, I I I feel like this is a very anchored building, it's a very kind of austere building and and having that those like spindly details below the deck is really it's not anchored out. So if we could do something and this is along a lot of historic buildings, these brick peers with trelluses in between. I don't think that's changing the language, but I do think it it could just help to anchor it and it's still its own vocabulary. I have no problem with that. And then that sort of echoes the brick.

You want to see my really my crappy sketch? Yeah. Can you sketch? It's not crazy. Really nice sketch. Yeah. Um, so brick peers with lattice in between it's not I'm gonna take a picture of it and text it to you detail that would be really cool or just like just to kind of anchor right and so I'm not sure if it's like setting back this portion of um the window so there's some like remnant of that space being wider like this Oh, I see what you're saying. I don't know. There's just instead of pulling the siding all the way in because then that takes that away,

right? have the sighting end where it ends and still have the frame where it is and then in I mean yes something I mean that's a design decision for you and your team but I just I was just saying something on this for removing the side lights

uh plan style for the door and Todd I'm sorry this is on paper and you can't see it um so like here's the trim the exterior trim right now and the siding right is from here from the door. So it's it's a very deep wall. So I can set I think I understand your point. So what I would do is I'd probably build a small stub in here. Uh that's too shallow. Some more like this or this. It's just a built-in stub of the wall. But I I'm leaving a remnant of the original opening. So I sort of do this and then the glass doors frame sit inside here.

Yeah, I think that's right. And then maybe those are still these are in Yeah, like this proud of doors itself. But are you saying this is a solid piece or that's going to have cladding? Let me draw that again because I I really just messed that up. So here's the molding and here's sighting. molding siding and then I think it is to your point I think it's that it's it's built in here some amount and goes probably all the way back to the interior wall flush right

just yeah just something if it's not these glass side lights something that's sort of acknowledging that there's the opening was wide where did where did you see the door sitting more at the flush front side on the interior side, but it might it might look too busy. I'm not sure. Um I I think you just hang it to the outside of the because ultimately it's got to be to the outside of the wall here. You're talking about the slider. Yeah, the slider will sit outside of this uh molding, right?

I'm just talking about the remaining opening that doesn't look like glass doors. If it's not a side leg, what is is the siding then just getting extended? So the opening looks like it was six feet and not eight or those remaining two feet, one on either side somehow represented. What is the clear opening right now? Clear opening is eight. Eight. So what we're talking about is uh you know having two two three-footers and uh one foot on either side. What is that one? Yeah. Is it just that the siding eat it or does it sort of pull back somewhat? Does it have a I I I think um I mean my feeling is is that it can be a lot of different things.

Yeah. And and and it would look well it's there's nothing historic about it. So my feeling is is that um whatever they feel like doing it. I I think a sidelight would be nice. What if it's just full glass? So then it's not busy and rem remnant of history echoed and it's just full pane glass mirroring the door. Is that could be better? Yeah. Better a little bit less noisy. Say could you say that one more time for me?

No, we can't. Instead of having those sort of historicy sidelights that are glass on top and solid on the bottom, just having those be all glass instead. So it's so the whole open the whole 8 foot wide opening is essentially once the historic doors are slid to the side, it's all opening. I think I I don't um I I I'm open to that. I think that really depends on what these doors are um and how they how what what material they are constructed out of because a steel profile is going to be very very small and delicate and would probably that would work um with that. But if it's an aluminum,

it's we're talking a lot more mass and material. And then that 12 in is not going to end up being anywhere near 12 in of glass. and you end up with a bulky, clunky, very ugly situation there that is very clearly like, oh, we needed to fill some space in. So, we did that with uh so, you know, not an immediate no for me, but it really depends on what the door details are.

And so, I say I agree with Todd on that can get really nice details and I think we all agree that that would be nice, but if it's aluminum, don't do details. And does that then look like that it's framed more like a the door frame is its own self-contained unit like the whole door unit is like a window. It's its own self-contained structural unit. So it doesn't need this for structural support really. Well, one one of the things I I worked on this project where uh the architects had to come up with details for um a uh curtain wall and they detailed every possible permutation combination. uh when it came to construction and it was based on a certain manufacturer. When uh it came to construction, the uh contractor picked a different manufacturer. So all those details were pointless. Ultimately, I think that a lot of it depends on uh the the system that that you're using for the glass door

because uh it doesn't it doesn't necessarily have to be fat if it's aluminum because I've seen systems where uh you know the strength really comes in from you know they they turn the the uh profile sideways. And so you have a very thin prof thin strip which is the outside edge the depth. Yeah. Huh. The depth here. Yeah. Yeah. So I I I think a lot of it depends on on what you finally get and uh you know we're sort of me

sitting into the wind here. We'll leave it up to you to come up with something beautiful that will thrill us. Okay. Hopefully I hopefully I did okay this way. My phone is such a mess. So don't Yeah. Okay. The screen broken. Have you seen both a week away from a new phone which is a little akin? Yeah. Okay. I mean this is just a quick Google but you know Okay. But but I I think you know the question is is that there are obviously things that you need to follow up on and narrow down but I think that we're all in agreement with that this is a viable approach.

Yes. Door sliding on more historic classic utilitarian type barn slider sliding to the right railing picking up. No. To not to the left of the dividing line, but to the right of, right? Uh if possible, full flush level deck. If not, shallow ramp. If not, steps all meeting code compliance. Right. Um uh uh hardcaping to the east or left side of the door with the flagstone remaining. Deck picking up from that point forward. Brick veneer on foundation. Um I'm going to take a picture of your sketch. Uh um I will that's great. I think that's great. Put brick peers with right

in between. Yeah. Brick peers supporting the uh the you know the porch porch trail the porch uh uh loading dot kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Are we um sorry are do the brick peers continue the whole width just for clarity or are they just here? there. I I don't know because you've got a break in the middle there that you have for your u bill door, right? Uh hereish, right?

So, I I don't know if that really makes sense. And you're going to have to you're going to have to figure that out how you want that done. But the they'll also they sort of won't be peers. They'll basically be like a brick or like two brick like once they get to the ramp. Yeah. Once they get over to this side, it's not very tall once you take away the fascia board like the deck board. The fascia board things. Well, what's here is this tall, you know, kind of thing. What is the the material of that portion of the what used to be the ramp? In other words, what what is the construction from there? right where you're

uh was wood decking um running perpendicular to the face of the building uh the whole way. Okay. Other than the Bilco door sip and it might make sense to pick up the brick veneer that would be part of the foundation. Okay. But moving depending Well, I I have I have to agree. I mean, you know, it's kind of silly to to have, you know, lattice that is maybe 6 in wide. Yeah. Right near to left. Yeah. Cool.

That would be nice. Can I just ask something really quick? Um, are we all in agreement or am I on the outside as far as that flag stone staying where it is and not being raised because I think raising it is not ideal. Is that is that where we landed or no? Well, if this flag was to remain in place in location, but I think it it sits some of the it sits below the door. I think that what is the what is the issue if it is raised a little bit to accommodate egress? You think it will look funny?

I think it will look funny. I also think it's a a weatherproofing issue as well if it's flush with the interior floor. Are you saying raising it couple inches or raising it to be like flush with the interior flooring? That's

well you you have to remember that the code used to be that uh the exterior landing needed to be 8 in down and that was because of the of snow and rain. But that has changed once we got into ADA. With ADA the exterior landing needs to align with the interior landing. But looking looking at this photo, it doesn't seem like it would really That's what I keep saying. That line there, right? Yeah. I think the drawing on the screen to see if the drawing,

but that I mean, we haven't moved it, but this is Did they Are you looking at Google? Yeah, because that has this piece like the drive or the walkway. Yeah, it does have an exceptionally large um trim at the bottom. Yeah, it was like my screenshot.

I guess I I I still I my my comment and if listen if I'm on the outside then I'm on the outside on this one. But my comment is really that it there should be a step up to that front door and a very very gradual pitch across the front of the building to get to the main double door entrance is much more preferable to me than that decking being straight across. Even with the front door, you're going to have water and snow going in the front door. And that's I I get it when there's a when there's protection, some kind of awning or if the entrance is recessed, you see that more where the floor might be um you know, but that that's just my my two cents. So, if I'm on the outside, that's fine. But that's my feeling. Well, the other thing is is that you know we are going to have the um uh that granite paving along the lung uh the lerish facade

and so what does that align with? I mean, you know, that there's enough length that you can, you know, make whatever moves, but it seems like, you know, we're we're um I would think it would be preferable to have that uh stone landing align with everything else that goes into the the building. I mean, as it is, uh, you you've got the same sort of thing at the, uh, the double doors, right? I mean, the the landing there on the outside aligns with the floor in the inside.

Todd, I I hear you. I feel like at this point, we've given him like we're all pretty much on the same page, and Hudson Design should maybe take that on if they're concerned about waterproofing details or, etc., they can fine-tune this in a way that is what they want and then we can do, you know, have one more look to make sure it all aesthetically is working. Um, but I I feel like we wait and see. Close to in that place is absolutely possible, right? Yeah. I I think you've stated the case and and uh I I think that let's throw it into Hudson Designs lab and let them come up with their design for it. Sure.

Okay. Uh cool. So last time we discussed the idea of doing a you So I'll get this all matched. I think I' I think I've got it. Um uh and we'll create one set of thing not numerous different versions but all in one clean version. Uh how soon are we comfortable meeting again? The next meeting is the third Tuesday of February, right? Our next month meeting.

We discussed the last time the idea of doing a special meeting. Well, I I guess my question is that do you think that you'd be able to get it all resolved in time for a special meeting? I mean, we're talking about um Yeah, I think I'd be ready by the end of this week. And then by Ken and Angie Breathing down in in a good way. They're lovely people, very eager to to get their bakery open.

The signage will need to be reviewed, materiality and the detailing and then all of this not signage, but we'll need to go to public hearing, right? So, I don't know. Do we do we think we need a public hearing for this? We agreed we did. The last meeting you came to the res the conclusion that you didn't. Yeah, I think so. I'm okay with this because of essentially like the scope got sort of constrained. If we could find a way to do this, then this could then this if it was just this then that sort of kept down.

All right. And let's have a special meeting where we can review um you know the details and the materials and so on. Um, signage I'm not all that worried about just yet because uh, you know, let them come up with their uh, signage package that I can see at the next meeting. But, um, that doesn't affect their I'm happy to they have a signage concept. It's that they're taking their exact same logo and they plan to just put it on a wood something on the rendering. Yeah. I mean I uh on one of these slides so if you get everything ready and they're like essentially

I want want to make sure it um it works for your Yeah. Here's here's the um what are the two things that we have available concept and I I'll it'll this wasn't done by Hudson Design so like it's proportionally a little bit off smaller but I felt Yeah. January um I'll have it done so that it meets all the signing constraints. Okay. So then how about first Tuesday but they wanted centered above the doors there. First Tuesday in February is February 3rd. I don't have 3rd 10th and 17th right 17th we have our meeting.

Yes. Monthly meeting. All right. So how about the third? We'll have a a quick meeting to go over the final layout. Yeah. Do the vote then. I'll have what I Well, I I I guess what we needed it needs to be a voting meeting, right? Because that's what you're really interested. You want the CFA. Yes. complete. Yeah. So, I think one thing special meeting you're saying a special meeting on the 3rd would be a Ca meeting. It would be

not a workshop. Not a workshop. Not a workshop. Still take a time challenge and make it very efficient. And And you'll plan to do your put the signage in that application as well. Yep. And you'll show the windows as approved and all

windows as approved. Yes. I'll make sure that we update. I did ask her because she had she still had the like outlets floating differently. There were still a couple things that hadn't carried forward and I did catch those. I didn't catch the window detail. One thing I just would request too about the the um the doors, the glass doors that are going to be in the is that those all of the details around those glass doors are really well um kind of explained and drawn out um especially as relates to those sidelights that there's a lot of there.

I have the specs for the doors that were planned that all I was waiting for was a different color of metal. can show you those if you want to weigh in. They're not quite they're not they're aluminum I think. So our concern Todd articulated a concern about aluminum sidelights and the the glass opening becoming so small really festy. So the reason that you it may require a little more work on your end is that you know sales people are sales people so they're going to tell you sometimes just what you want to hear. Uh, and if you're saying I got sidelits, they'll be, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah." And then you get something delivered that's just not what what you wanted. So they may not it may not be a standard kind of

I was So this is ideation, but what I was sort of meaning over here about it not being structural is what if I do just do the sidelight in more of what I will call sort of like a window style, where I have a window panel. One of the bigger window manufacturers is one of my close personal friends. I can have just custom insulated panes created with no framing. Just a glass pane,

just a pane that I do essentially as we used to build windows, right? Essentially thin like quarter round type molding that holds the panes in place because I will double check, but I think the anchoring of the aluminum of the swing doors is not depending on anchoring at this point. It's not it's not creating stress at this point. It's vertical. It's top and bottom. Is there real anchoring of it? I mean, normally it would be left, right, and top, but if you if they can do it top and bottom, um, yeah, maybe it could work. I think that we're all just hoping for like a really

detailed, beautiful, detailed solution to it.

Yeah, some some enlarged details would be helpful for those. Yeah, here is the door details. Let me go to Zoom and share my screen. If I go here, that's sufficiently showing. Yeah. So they are, you know, there is sort of a kick plate height at the bottom,

right? Usually the base and is wider, right? And then uh it doesn't have a dimension here because I think what you're talking about is sort of the width here between the amount of metal that is this the frame of the door that is not the glass of the door. Right. Structure the structural surrounding door. So that looks like it's two and a well but um

that's two and a quarter. And then this dimension the the part that is metal inside the door it doesn't have a dimension of it looks like probably 4 in or so based on if that's two and a quart. Yeah. What I see is five inches maybe. What's the thickness of the the uh the frame? Is it That's what he's looking for. Yeah. The this kind of thickness from here. Yeah. The door frame. I mean the styles and the you know the uh cross piece of a top that's usually about four or five inches. Huh.

It looks like it's about four or five inches. So there's a two and a quarter dimension but the other ones don't have. But so those are the kinds of dimensions we're looking for that would be helpful for you guys. Yeah. But and I think also to see it drawn out in plan like that also with the sidelights, you know, with the correct dimensions for what the sidelight frame detail is going to be. So you can see what we need to see like that drawing. Yeah. And you can see there's the frame for the door there on the lower right hand on that uh plan view.

Yeah. So it looks like it's 10 in total from the sort of this this piece back here. What is that like two and a quarter inch the frame itself? Two and this is the glass. It's in Oh, right here. Right here. I see. Yeah. So it's three Two and a quarter. No, no. See, this is part of the door. Okay. Two and a quarter.

Two and a quarter is is what the the frame that the door is set into. Okay. So, subtract that from the foot the 12 in on either side. Right. So, you're down to like 11. No, you're down to No, nine and nine and nine and three4. I mean, my that assumes that the glass goes right into that door frame, dead ends of the door frame. And

and you're hiding whatever the frame is where it meets the wall, you're hiding that inside the wall. But typically, if you had an exposed frame on either side of that piece of glass, you're at 4 and 1/2 in. So that means your 12 - 4 and 1/2 is you're down to a 7 and 12 inch piece of glass. Yeah, unless you can have your unless your your your pane of glass can can can kind of be set into the the the back end of that door frame or your frame where it meets the wall is hidden in the wall. But I think it's I I think that's weird. Normally, you want to see you want to see some framework that piece of glass

uniform on like left, right, top, bottom. I mean, are you married to these doors? Can you no or other at all? Yeah, I can frame doors or something maybe. Yep. But I think Yeah, I mean I know there's cost considerations and but it these doors are I'm not in love with them. I think it's so much material and this will work well if there's minimal frame. Um, and I think detailing it out right now probably I don't know I'm losing steam again but and there's Yeah, the solution needs to happen with your team probably. Okay. Yeah. Well, February 3rd I'll have lots of other things.

Yes. February third. And what I may do is if I do find some other door options, is it okay if I email them and just get feedback? No. I like that idea, but I don't think we're allowed. Okay. And he's asking if we could get feedback like before the meeting if he shows up some doors.

Well, the thing is is that uh we can give you feedback and and vote on something uh as long as you comply with what we suggest. In other words, it doesn't need to be a fade of complete design. There could be some loose ends which we note as part of the uh certificate of appropriateness. Okay, that makes sense. But he's asking if he sends us like a cut sheet of a door, right? Except except we need to do everything in a public setting. Yeah. So, we can't do that. Okay. Got it.

Yeah. Thank you. We did run a little bit over but it's our fault. But I think this really the special meeting next week or in two weeks? Is it the week? Two weeks. Okay. The third.

All right. Well, thank you, Ryan. Look forward to seeing you in two weeks. I look forward to seeing you in two weeks. Okay. The other thing for minutes Thank you sir. Who is missing the 16th?

December. I was Those are the December, right? Wait, where are we? December 16th meeting. Oh, yeah. I left there. Oh, I I guess I guess you can't vote on these ministries. I can't. Well, we can't vote on that. Um, anything else you need? It doesn't only helpful as much,

right? That's the only other thing. So, what do we want to do? Do we want to defer this until I think we have here vote on it. It would have to be Kim. Well, Todd, you can't vote on Yeah. Okay, we'll defer the is here like Todd. Your mind is here, which is probably So, you could vote on these minutes. I can vote on those. No. Yeah, you have quarum at the at physically quarum. You're here if I vote. Oh, is that true? Yeah. Okay.

Okay, we can vote. Are those I feel like I read those and responded to that or am they're December the December 16th minutes. Oh, okay. Then I I include the original 113, but we're here tonight again. It was that meeting. Did you say you didn't get these? Yeah, I responded to those. I responded that that day. Um on the December 16 minutes. Uh yes, I the January ones. Yeah.

Seven Cedar Street should read a little more like and then I included a sentence. And then the same thing for 11 Church Street. I included two two sentences. Um, Lauren, you agreed with my edits. Kate, you were not there. Yeah. So, do you want do you want me to forward those to you right now or text them to you and then you could read them into the Let me just see if they were picked up.

Lauren, I just texted them to you. Sorry. Back it up. Yes.

Um I I guess on 15.

Okay. That's something that I also have to look at. Well, the board 11 Church Street starts the board discussed window and the board explained that PDC is not I appate All right, it looks like your comments are picked up, Todd. Okay, cool.

See you in two weeks. Two weeks.

Um, okay. 15 Pauling Avenue. Um it's not exactly what I um what I said one cable connecting the conduit together. That is not really uh first of all, there's an S that's missing in my name. Requested to have all of the panels connected. together with with a minimum Um, conduit that request conduit together with the minimum of

with a minimum of conduit. In other words, it just it was supposed to be one conduit connecting each uh each panel and coming down to the inverter. I think that that's a little bit to me that's a little bit makes a more sense. Do you guys agree? Yes. No. Lauren. Yes, I agree. Okay, that's that's the only

that's the only change that I have. Okay. Request to have one cable connecting connected together with minimum conduit. Right. You got it. Uh, should we just make PVC all caps?

Church Street.

Okay. All I've got. Do you have anything else? No, this was on the table. Yeah, that's for 55 Main Street. I just called in two days and I printed out the most recent event that was also to this. I'm sorry. 55 Main Street Don Foundry Rose. Here are the

updates. Have you reached out to him and he gave a response? I think because at some point we recorded in our um monthly report to the board that we were going to send 55 Main Street a revised notice um saying that we basically have photographic evidence that they put the windows in. And I just like has that been done? Is that something we don't want to do anymore?

Well, um, what we said is that the tenant says that the smaller windows were installed before their tenency, right? But then Todd found a bunch of photographs and we we sort of put the pieces together and realized that they that's not true. They misspoke. Yeah. So, um, what was the photograph? I mean, when was the photograph taken that you're talking about? Last fall. 24. I when I photograph the entire district, I have photographs of that building that show that the windows that are there now were not there. Then I've emailed this to everybody. I can forward it to everybody again, but it a couple times I've emailed. So,

okay. Yeah. So, what we this was all over email, but what we all said was that we would send them a revised notice. I will Yes, I will address that. Yeah. like sort of mention that. I didn't want to word it incorrectly just so um I did say like if this is the most updated notice at this time if there if it isn't then you will be I guess informed. Yeah. And what about I know Brian was just in front of us but he said he was going to take care of the brick wall for nobody's deli and it's been

right. We forgot we should have mentioned that to him. Well, let's try to remember that in two weeks, right? Well, I guess the question is is that do we want them You're talking about the painting and the the brick. Um, do we want them to do that during the winter? No, they should have done it in the fall, which is when he said they were going to do it, right? Right. Okay. So, uh, what we can do to follow up is, um, is remind them that he needs to do that and, uh, copy the the, uh, building code official.

And then the same for Cozy Corner. They also haven't come around, right? The the whole business about the signage and signage and the existing astroturf and Yeah. So, this is all to say I I have a draft going to the village board saying that this is this is where we're at. I'm holding off sending it out for us to review cuz I thought we should do that first. Okay. And then um I want to make sure with everybody that we're also adding um my god what's that like our name the Manitoba store if you put the entrance on without permit. So that should what was it? John.

Um so we should keep that on the letter too. Sorry you're looking at the back of my head. Um that that guy should be there on that. And then um I don't know. Have you heard anything about that vinyl fence that was put up on Main Street by the pool lead? Yes. On the agenda for a second. It was on the agenda, but he hadn't submitted new material. I think the last communication was something about

he was referencing something that Todd was explaining in a set of minutes and I know Todd explained it but I wasn't quite sure what his assumption was. So, I just this might take a little bit, maybe like more than a week, but I do want to compare what he's saying to what was actually said because I don't I don't know. I just I want to make sure that it's Do we have the minutes from that meeting approved? And they don't explicitly me. I think at some point it was removed. So, um the email from from Vlad recently there was an email and then Todd wrote back and sent him the fence rule. Yes. Yeah. I don't I didn't He was saying

you guys wrote back to him, but you haven't heard anything since then. Okay. So, is that somebody that we should be including? Okay. So, I think that before our next meeting then, Al, you're going to you're going to specifically notify the Foundry Rose people and then at the next meeting, can we look at Lauren's list, finalize it, and get that plan on from now that that gets issued to the the village board? Yeah. and also in copying the code enforcement. Yeah. Well, we don't have am I correct that we don't really have that many things spending or you know as far as applications the big addition on that?

Well, and I mean it kind of clears the deck for us to sort of start chasing down some of this stuff that we have asked people to do. We haven't voted on the minutes either, by the way. So, Oh, okay. We should I move I move to approve the minutes as revised. Second it. All in favor say I. I 301. So we'll pick the violations back up next meeting. Yeah. And I'll have a draft out. Okay. Okay. select before

it's 55 carzer and apothereet I can all right now and I have do I have the most important motion motion to jar in this meeting I'll second okay all in favor say I I All right good night get home every family. Have fun. Thanks,