Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

for the uh town of Melbourne Beach planning and zoning meeting Tuesday, May 5th, 2006. Please come to order. And the agenda is roll call. Chairperson April Evans here. Vice chairperson Dan Harper is absent. Member Gabbor Kasheki here. Member Todd Albert here. Member Jason Judge is absent. Town manager Amarie Smith here. Building assistant Steve Freeman here. Town clerk Amber Brown is also present.

Okay. Are there any changes or additions to the minutes? No, I thought they were fine. I motion make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. All in favor say I. I. I.

Minutes have been approved for the April 7th meeting. First thing on new business is site plan approval for 22 222 6th Avenue uh for an addition this as soon as I find the rest of my paper here. This is another one where we've got an older lot with some nonconforming um but it does meet the minimum the lot size um and it meets the lot coverage of less than 30%. Height is 20 in for the second story edition. It's this the stuff we're reading is saying it's meeting the uh side setbacks. I have some issues with that. And just in general, we've we haven't gotten all the paperwork hadn't gotten all the paperwork that is actually needed. If you look between the first uh site plan, like you're looking at the board,

the one that we just got and the second one. Mhm. Um the first one showed the structure less than 15t set back the existing.

No, the new I'm sorry. the addition. The second one that you everyone should have gotten an email about which came in apparently today. um has made adjustments to that. But the plans that we're actually looking at that we would be making our approval on don't necessarily show the proper changes in the size of the structure to accommodate. Um, we also had the issue of not having a drainage plan. There were a couple of other things that this should never have been put on our agenda. We haven't we don't have the time sitting here in the meeting to go through this kind of thing. and and I I apologize to the folks involved in it, but there's, you know, there's a checklist that we're supposed to have in our pock in our packets when we get them. We didn't even get what we have until Thursday. So, that for us to have stuff that keeps rolling in, um, it it just it makes it very difficult. you guys.

No, I had the same questions about the draining plan and the offsets on this one. I couldn't tell, but this one that is clear and that's okay on the new one that we got today, but I still don't have a drainage plan. Um, yeah. So yeah, I'm not sure what the purpose is of essentially having setbacks when the second floor violates those setbacks. It's not the second floor. It's even the first on the ground. It's the first Yeah. Well, on the existing it was apparently approved. No,

be 10 foot five in. Okay. But remember these there are a lot of these but on the new a lot of these houses were built before we had setbacks had setbacks. Okay. And so you know the the the town has chosen not to penalize people for that. Right. But they it it's it makes it nonconforming. However, you cannot increase the nonconformity. So that means if you put an addition on the addition must fall in line with today's codes. I agree. Or you get a variance from the board of adjustments. Right.

Um this again is is difficult. The numbers don't match up. U and and like I said, Steve, I'm sorry to be critical, but this should never have hit our agenda. Now, there is an update that uh Mr. Brown did give me a couple couple days ago that would clarify this. I do have those. At that point in time, I assume that everybody had the plans, so I didn't want to confuse everything, but those are in my possession.

Okay. Well, I I think too we we go into a thing that, you know, these meetings are publicly noticed. Our agendas, including these plans, are available for the public to see. Um, so if the public can't see them, it's I don't think kosher for us to break them out here at a meeting. So

I I think we're talking about the same thing. But when I look at the land survey that we did get or even the one that came in late, it's showing 10.7 10 foot 7 in plus 4 foot 6 in to the proposed addition on the first floor. However, when you look at the plans of the second floor, it overhangs to match the 10 foot 7 in of the original plan.

And that I didn't.

So, there's a there's a cave effect that's going over the air conditioning unit. Um, and the second floor goes into the setback by 4 foot something. And I just think a setback as what my experience in these things is that setbacks go from the ground up. And the design of this second floor does not do that. It goes the first the wall on the first floor is here. Then it comes out and then it goes up. And that second floor is about in line with the original first floor. And the way you can see this, I had to go. It was a little bit difficult to tell this, but if you go from the wall that attaches to the stairway and you go in to the wall of the master, it's what is that? 18.1 inches. And then you look at the master bedroom, it's 16.2 in. And this is to the inside wall. Well, that equals 34 34t 3 in. If you look at the first floor going from that same wall of the stairwell, the existing span to the master to the second bedroom is 17.9 in. And then the

bedroom is 11 foot 10 in which is 29 29 feet 7 in. So the upstairs goes out an extra 5 foot 6 in which should be 15 foot into the which is into the 15 foot setback. Okay. Well, we we have we have the folks here uh if they would like to explain that to us. Um I think we should we're willing to listen. Is that not correct? Absolutely.

Come up and please uh give your uh name and address, please. I appreciate listening to you. Thank you very much. My name is

So let's first thing is we we kind of deceiving not deceiving but we misunderstood. We thought we had to have all the permits, all the prints, all this drainage and everything on the same time. Turns out we just need the drainage part. So we've been dealing with this for two months, taking money out of the money market. So, we noticed when we got the first survey back, we were in the setbacks. So, I went got all new prints made, had new survey done again, got you guys 10 more copies. So, we're in compliance with everything. I don't know where he keeps coming up with 10 foot six, but if you look at it on the survey, we are 15 foot6 in. So, it's like 15 uh 4 in. And in the back, we are 5.19 to from the pool to the thing where it was 3.5. So that's five and four inches right there. So we're plenty on the setbacks. Now to siterate the second floor problem, if you've done construction your whole life, you'll know that's can levered out. So it's not touching encroaching the ground at all. I can I did a house on Anchor Key. I can't leave it out the back of my own house 5T one on Sunset right by the guy that does the uh Prince house was just built. twotory house, whole second front porch and the roof and everything's can levered out. So that's just my understanding that it was okay to can lever out because you're not encroaching. Fire truck can still get by there. Electrical trucks can still get by there. So that's why it's can lever to pick up the space we needed upstairs for his daughter.

Okay. I that's the reasoning. I think my concern and and we don't have someone here that can actually answer this question is I don't know that there's an issue with the canal lever but I do know I do suspect that there would be an issue with it encroaching on the setback even though it is on the second floor. You're talking about other houses that the setback front and rear setbacks are substantially larger than they're inside. They're inside the setbacks. I ask my architect, he goes back. My statement was the front and back setbacks are larger.

This is in the front. But anyways, we can go over that, but and we can ask the head building inspector if you want about the can lever part out. Maybe he'll he can clarify that for us. That's who I've been dealing with. Well, and this So, let me ask you one question. If we don't We hired Clayton Bennett. Cost us another five grand to do the thing. He wrote a note saying you have it done next week. So, if we don't get in this time, we got to wait another two months to get a building permit. That's our problem. No, not two months. A month. We meet every month. We meet every month. So, the next meeting is going to be a month from now. Yes. So, that's one month. Then you got to approve it. Then it's 10 days more before you have go in front of the council. That's two months.

No, it goes in front of the council the week after us. All right. Because I thought I thought we had the meeting today and and then the council met on the 20th of this month. Again, the other issue. Let's finish the one question. So, when is the next council meeting after this? Well, the 20th. Yes. And then I think the same thing happens in June. It's 20. Correct.

Days later. But again you need to understand that we need time to look at things also. Uh well so that when we don't get ample opportunity to look at things then we're not doing our job if we just kind of rush it and and we really don't like to delay people. I mean I turned this we live here too. We're your neighbors. Okay. So I turned this in last week. So there's no way that we can get turn these back in and maybe you can review it before the 20th and somehow we can don't have to wait till January 5th or something June.

I did get a letter from Mr. Bennett indicating survey. They came out four times. They went and did a topography on our property and they didn't bother front yard. I'm like, why didn't you do the front yard coming out tomorrow doing it and he wrote an letter to that your storm water drain management all those issues are addressed in his subject that gave Steve and I I know uh I don't I don't know what respond but I I know one I have a complication with I'm trying to move my daughter and my grandchildren in my home. My daughter is in a very abusive divorce and every month that she doesn't come in and I know this is not a problem but it cost me $6,000 a month to support her and I need her in my house so I can get her back to work and me as grandpa and and my daughter mother's grandmother can watch the children they ride the bikes back so my daughter can go back to work

well and and I can appreciate your situation however We we have you know we we have a a a list of things that we have to go by. Um so we are restricted and this is not the proper board to get make special allowances and get special consideration. We we have a code we have to go by. So do you have these prints the new prints that I turned in? I turned in these prints last week. The new set of prints. You sure? Steve said he he has them, but they have we have not received

them. And here's your step back. It was a 14.9. I know. I know. I know. It It was But but again, it's a problem. I fixed one in. So, and the Cly report I can maybe go over with what's that guy's name again? The head building inspector? Jeff. Jeff. I can go over that with him and see what the code says for that. Yes. Yes. And if we can get clarification on that then you know and if you can can can take care of the things that so it's not 15. So just to clar just to clarify for me I mean that was one of the hard things about this was it

what is the setback from here right now? What is that distance? I don't have that anywhere. Yes you did. Does that Yeah, I know. Me too. I have here sweating in here. So, this looks like 15, too. Too much. Hey, everybody. There's She's picking up everybody's voice on the recordings. Okay. But turn your mic off down there and be quiet. So, what my issue is with the second floor. Todd, you're not being quiet.

Okay. That's not an answer to be a question to be dealt with right now. We have to have someone the our building official will have to answer that question. Yeah. So, there is nothing else we can do. So, you're you're okay with the surveys for your I don't know. We haven't had an opportunity to really look at it. Oh, so the qu I suspect so I I do have one question that maybe you can answer just now. just on a distance that I'm not clear on. So this overhang here on the south side, what is the setback from here to the property line

from the porch? The setback from 15.59 that's to here. Yeah. Okay. So that can leave a part is it's over here. It's right there. That 4 foot. This is back the 15 foot 16 15. Okay. And in this second floor, which doesn't touch the ground, I'm pretty sure it will pass code comes out to there, but it's up 8t. Okay. So, that's the part that's inside the 15. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Yes.

To add, April, to add one point to that, a typical house, one floor is going to have a 1 foot, twoft overhang, which in turn will fall into that setback. Correct. So now we're talking about with with the overhang that we're going to be five to six feet into that. Okay. So we do need clarification on that. Please I'll get that with Jeff. Yeah. Um yeah, my calculation is it goes 5T. All right. Do we have any which is where the existing structure

do we have any public comment on this? Okay then uh somebody what would be the correct motion? I need a motion. What would be the correct motion to table this until we have all the documents that we need? Yes. I make a motion to table this until we have all the documents that we need. I second. All in favor say I. I. I. I. Oh yeah.

And just to be 100% clear, can you review the documents that you are requesting so that way the building department has it on record before it comes back? We need the most recent survey. We need the most recent plans. We need the drainage plan. And we need an answer to the question about How far a second story can lever into setback?

Was there anything else that we think you covered? Got it. Sorry. Thank you. Is what it is. Thank you.

Sure. Bye. Uh next is the site plan for 2186th Avenue. Uh also an addition just down the street. You guys are neighbors. Um this this is a adding a master suite and if I remember correctly redoing an area that's now going to become a laundry room if it's not already. Um, it meets the lot size requirements. It meets the maximum coverage limitations. We don't have to worry about height with this one and it meets all the setbacks. We have

I think the question the question I have on this one is there are two owners of the property. Look those up in the tax records today. only one is signing the application. From a legal standpoint, do we need two both owners signing this? I don't think so. That's what I was thinking. Not for the permit.

Well, then come down here and sign thing. No. Yeah. Oh, that town. I don't think so. I I suspect if they borrowed money for this, they required both signatures, but um it's not necessary for legalized nature of our mayor. I don't just the permit think it it would be nice to have. Okay. This is another one that not that we think John is a bad guy.

I had concerns about the um the letter from BSE. Is this another one? We don't have the actual That's correct. storm water stuff. That's correct. is do we know what the hold up is on that? I would probably ask Mr. Silver comes back. Please state. Please state your name and address. My name is Dave Silver and your

with Elevation Contractors. So, we have the drainage plan and I had a little bit of problem getting in touch with the town's engineer to get my engineer the information needed. He got that actually sent over today, but it was after 4:00 a preliminary storm water. But I need to get clarification because right now it seems like we have to prepare for 8 in of flood and it's causing us to have to put a drainage ditch in the back, a retention pond. And it seems like we're we're factoring for the whole house, the whole lot to go towards the back, but the from the from the front half of the house and the driveway already drains to the front. So, I need to get clarification because that would change the whole thing because right now we're planning on everything going to the back and it's not set up that way currently. So, we should only have to factor for our addition going back draining that way.

Correct. Again, that that's an engineering thing and we're not engineers. Understood. Um and and part of it is as these folks I'm sure well aware that drainage is is an issue in our town and particularly when somebody starts doing an addition uh water starts changing directions and so that's why we we require at a certain point that you have to come in and and redo all this stuff. Um, and so that I I I mean I'm hoping we can maybe get something where we can get can we get an approval contingent on the storm water because we have everything else. It seemed like it's been looked at and well,

we have the as far as the sign and seal drainage and the plans and surveys. Again, that's that's one of those things that we have to to track that real close and make sure it doesn't accidentally get put on the commission's agenda. Um, how how confident are you that you will have

Well, I got it today as long I mean, I literally I just sent it to you this evening with with my engineers questions just to confirm. Are we literally planning on even though the driveway and the front of the house drains to the front? Do we have to plan on doing a full thing for the 8 inch hundredyear storm to the back right now when the back's not the front of the house is draining to the front? So that's where I just need we need engineer clarification. Okay. And and if it comes back that yes, you you have to put this big then it's already designed then I'll have it stamped tomorrow

or by Thursday. I think the engineer can stamp it on Thursday for me if I need to because it's already designed and it's in Steve's mailbox right now. So if I have to keep it that way and we have to do the drainage that's like that then I'll have it stamped and I can have it Yep. If that's the only issue that we have, I'm I'm okay with that. Do a contingent. Okay. All right. Um, and if I get clarification and we modify it, I can still have that also by Thursday. I just want to I want to talk to your engineer again and my engineer just make sure that is truly what we have to plan for. Okay. Well, like you said, as as long as you're you're willing that if if what they're saying you need to do, you're willing to do that,

right? Well, at that point we'll discuss what we have to do, but that's what we have to do at that point. Then I said that if it's it's already drained right now. The worst I mean it's planned for the worst case scenario. So I can either have it stamped or modified and I can get it done this week and we can do something as far as the permit. The permit can't be issued unless this is fulfilled. Okay. Okay. Well, it's just that, you know, we're we're short staffed and I I definitely understand that this is a time when things happen that should never have happened, but people are carrying too big a load and so on and so forth. Okay. And just for clarification on my building permit, do you want me to have both sign on the the permit application itself? Okay. No,

just want to make sure. Thank you. Do do we have any public comments? Okay. Can I get a motion? Like to make a motion that we approve the plan for two which was 18 18 6th Avenue contingent on receiving the information about the land engineering the um U right? Can we make it on the approval of our town engineers report stating that everything meets town's compliance for drainage? I will take that. Correct. For drainage. Thank you. Second.

Second. Amber, did you get all that? Yes. All in favor say I. I. I. I. There's a pen. You're more than welcome. Sorry we couldn't give you better more joy. Um, thank you. a sign. No, no, no. We're good. Thank you. All right. All right.

Business. All right. Now, just totally lost my copy of the agenda. I have it buried. Got it. No, I don't. Okay. It's on this side. We We're going to get to y'all. Okay. I know. We're working on 200 Shannon. That's it. Yes. It's 200 Shannon. Yeah. On the back side of this. That's what we have to find. Oh, is that what it is? Front page. Second page.

Yeah. So the issue with 200 Shannon came down to what Dan Harper brought up that Yes. And I think that that question was answered every iteration of it was answered the same way. Um, in light of the discussions that we had at our previous meeting, I find that this particular application meets all of our standards. Does anyone have any other comments? I do not. I make a motion.

So then consequently, there shouldn't be an issue. That's true. Yeah. I make a motion to approve 200 Shannon Avenue. Second. All in favor say I. I. I. Unanimous. Sorry folks. You were delayed for a week a month. Do they have any public comment? Oh, do you have any public comment? Excuse me. Do you have any public comment? Do you have any comment? public comment about it? No. Okay. All right. All right. Um, and do you have any public comment about anything?

Just for clarification, you said approve. Yes. Correct. Thank you very much. It was it was kind of good. We we all kind of knew. Yeah. Yeah. So, thank you. Thank you. Uh, all right. There there's nobody left here to say anything. We have a report from our town manager. Anything she wants to tell us about?

Yes, I do want to um mention um on Riverview there was a um site where a number of uh old oak trees were taken down. That was permitted. Um but this has caused a row in the town and uh uh we have gotten people have contacted us um residents about um the um I guess the native plants uh I guess it was a policy that was drafted by the environmental advisory board and so

there was um and they contacted some of the uh commissioners as well. So I just wanted to mention that uh there is a renewed interest in moving that forward and I know that you all were talking about uh taking that in chunks and looking at that but I did want to mentioned to you that we did get uh we did get quite a few calls about that in emails as well. Yeah. So it's, you know, like you say, Maria, it's been proposed that we take it in kind of small chunks. Do we want to escalate that? Well, it depends on what all else we have to deal with.

Yeah. At our next meeting. And and I actually had considered the same thing because we had said chunks of of three. Yeah. And the first three I don't think we're going to have a whole lot of discussion about right

potentially. But like I said earlier because these, you know, these are public notice meetings and if we say we're covering items dot dot dot, then I suspect that if we go further than that that we couldn't might not should vote on that those particular ones. U I I have no objections to us going further. just recognizing that we wouldn't actually be able to vote on it probably until the next meeting. Does that make sense? It does.

Yes. Um, so there is a couple different ways you can go about it. Is the agenda doesn't have to specify. So it could just say whatever the exact code provisions. Okay. Just that we're talking about that. Yes. Okay. But then just be mindful that you might have people showing up that want to talk about item Z, but you don't get there. So, it's just a fine balance of

you don't want to leave it too broad to where residents are showing up because if it takes five meetings to discuss and you have residents that are showing up every meeting and you never get to what they are here for. Um, so if you leave it broad, I would say you might need to do a get it done quicker or you can specify exactly what provisions you are going to address, but then you'll have to stick to just those provisions. Yeah, I know. Well, I know we could discuss it. We just couldn't vote on. Yes. So, I'd say in the next That's one of the reasons that months ago I asked us to have a workshop. Yeah.

Uh because then nobody there's no voting going on. It's just you you get a feel for for what's acceptable to all parties and all sides as opposed to having it in a formal meeting before we've actually had good discussions among ourselves. So, and and if the board wants to schedule a workshop, you absolutely can. And then you could leave it general because then you would allow the public to discuss any of the provisions and that way when you put it on the agenda to actually vote on it, you should be able to get through it fairly quickly because you hashed out everything in a workshop.

Yeah, I just like workshops because in this kind of situation because they're well they're they're more informal and there's not as many rules but then you're also not voting on anything. I How do you feel about that? I think a workshop is an excellent idea for this for us to discuss it. Um because there are questions and thoughts that I want to know what everybody else is thinking as well and obviously I can't do that outside of here. Yeah. Well, I mean and it would be a work I would think a workshop that would include uh members of the environmental board. I would hope so. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, we kind of know where some of them are. And uh I I just because there was this big push for us to do something, it was like, okay, we'll officially start going through this, but I I personally would rather see us workshop it first. Um, could I just confirm what you said was the old trees were permitted to take down? Yeah, we we approved the site plans. Yeah, but that's because with plans to landscape to meet the replace or are they being covered by a house?

They Yes, the house is the the house will, but they are replacing them with I guess newer younger trees. Yeah, these were big old oak trees. I know the one Riverside. Yeah. Uh yeah, that's the one. Yeah. 206 206. Yeah. So, um on Oak Street, that's a banyan tree, isn't it? That was taken down. I was told there's four oaks. Four oaks. Building official was out there and verified everything according to the plans. Yeah. Those are the four that was taken off. They kept two of them. Well, you know, this Okay,

this just becomes, you know, a sticky the the way our code is written now. If if the tree happens to be on a buildable part of a lot, we can't say right. No. Um, and it's it's there's good reasons on each side for for doing and not doing. and and you know, telling somebody that they can't build on a section of their lot because of a of trees is going to upset a lot of people. That was an undeveloped property from my understanding.

No, there was a house there if if we're talking about the same house, but it does help us if we have landscaping plans, drainage plans. Well, and that's that's why I had asked Steve to give us a copy of this because, you know, these are certain things that if all these things don't exist in our packet, then we we can't assure ourselves that we are following code and that we're making good decisions. Um, and and it's and it really is kind of tough when we don't get them until Thursday. We used to we weren't getting them till Friday night. This is this is Excuse me. Go ahead.

I'm just saying that, you know, sometimes particularly if you have plans over the weekend and you don't get an opportunity to look at them. Um it it makes it tough and and when you have some confusing ones like we had tonight that I just had to keep going back and I hadn't even picked up on the the thing that that you did.

No, I just was looking at the other numbers. So Um okay. Well, what do we think about in lie of addressing these items at our next meeting unless how does anybody feel about doing a workshop prior to next month's meeting? I think that's awesome idea.

I think it's a good idea. And either way, we stick with at the very least we do the first three or five next month at the regular meeting. If we can get ahead of that through a workshop and get through all of them, that's great. Okay. Um, let's compromise on going to Amber, you got a good date for Well, this is be something we have to check with all the other TNC members and the envir environmental board. Yeah,

I apologize. The next uh regular town commission meeting is on the 21st, not the 20th. I forgot they moved it. Thursday. Yeah. Okay. That's strange.

Okay. Um I'm All right. For right now, I'm just talking about for us. Amber, can you reach out and see how that would with our two missing board members. Sure. Um so somebody throw a date out in in the next three weeks the 19th. Was that too much for that week?

Well, this is workshop. All we have to have is clerk ish type person. Turkish Turkish never knows what somebody to record us. So what I will say about that particular date is that is the day before the court hearing. Yeah, we can't do that. And can't do it before that or probably after that then. But a question. Do you need the town attorney for any of this? I don't think for discussion. We shouldn't. Not for discussion.

Not for the work. Okay. All right. And but if if in the workshop we have questions that come up that we believe will need some type of of legal interpretation, we can have who whoever clich. I can take them to the attorney and I can follow up on that. Yeah. If there questions that come up in the workshop. Oh, okay. You you plan on trying to attend? Oh, yes. Okay. Um, how about Thursday the 14th or the 26th of May, which is Tuesday.

I like 26 of May. 26 will work for me. Um, so let me just put issues on the table. So if you do the 26th, anything that is either a your packet for June's regular meeting will have to be late because it won't make it in there because it's that's the exact week the day the packet should come out. That's all right. So, your packet will either come out late or whatever is discussed won't be included in that packet. I don't think we'll have everything resolved. Oh, we we won't. But I think it'll give us a place to start.

Yeah. And also May 25th is Memorial Day. So it's Memorial Day weekend. I just want to make you aware of that. I don't know if people Well, and that's why I'm saying we we got to have a date to throw out there. I mean, it's um we can all sit here and say it's a wonderful idea, but if we can't make a suggested date to others, then it's a starting point. Um, so I mean another issue is the end of school and I think exams are that week of the 25th. You look kind of Are you tied to Are you tied to Tuesdays?

And my wife is taking him to New York. So, um, sorry, I couldn't pass that one up. What about Monday the 18th? That's fine with me. Yep. Two days advanced to the uh in lie of the 26. Correct. Let's do the let's try for the 18th. Okay. And what time would we do this?

Um what's going to work easiest for staff? Um and of course for us I'm open on the 18th also. You guys want to do daytime, early evening or daytime? I talked about just after lunch. What? After lunch, but before cocktails. Definitely. My schedule's pretty flexible. If there's any cocktails that day, you have to have cocktails.

How about this? I will put we'll put out an email seeing if May 18th works and then see what the earliest time in the afternoon someone everyone can attend and if the majority say we can attend no earlier than 2 3:00 then we can set it for that or if everyone says no earlier than 56 we'll set it for that. Okay. Okay. That sound good? Yes. Yeah, at this point I think we just I I would prefer to be considerate of staff. Um we could bring pizza at lunch. Been known to do that. Um okay.

And and just as long as you know everybody understands it's a workshop. Nothing gets voted on. It is truly to to get some input so that once we do go into real meetings with this stuff that we can efficiently. Yes. Would you want a presentation by the environmental board or do you want do you all want to do a presentation or how do you want just read right what they have what we have and see where everybody stands on it. Okay. Okay. We've had presentations. I'm sorry.

Okay. So then we'll just as an attachment we'll just put the draft. So what they currently have is what our current ordinance has and then what EAB is proposing and what they have previously discussed. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And what's existing? Yes. Yeah. It's just that if we start getting some of this and there's some areas that this board may not agree with EAB and we're doing it during a regular P&Z meeting. It could go on a long time.

Sure. Absolutely. Um, and I'm hoping that if we are all sitting at tables facing each other and not on different levels that the communication will be kinder.

Okay. Okay. All right. Anything else? Uh, no. That was the the main thing. Steve, do you have any additional words of enlightenment for us? And I'm sorry to, you know, publicly called you out, but I got thick skin and know I don't have anything.

I I think you knew that was probably going to happen. It is the hardest thing for me to do is to sit down and tell them what they need. And to put drainage in perspective, they have to provide it. Once they come in with that permit, that's the process. They want to just here's your plans, here's your survey, what do I do next? You need a drainage. So now they have to go and find one, somebody to do it. Okay. Well, we used to have and and this wasn't really what I was talking about. This this helps, but at one time there was a sheet and it had a a box for check marks.

We need that as well. It exists somewhere. It may need to be it's probably been amended and added to and taken away from, but um what's the chances of something like that being located? probably pretty good. Okay. It would just take time because recordkeeping is joyful. Different for every single employee that it has Yes. been here. Yes. Um I mean, but Steve, it says very clearly number four under number four, you need a drainage site plan. And if and it's

and I fight it every every one. I mean, there's very few that I get where they submit pretty close to what I need. Yeah. To do it. I mean, it's it's been a fight. So, outside of me saying that some of the drainage plans I got is the survey with a bunch of squiggly lines driven drawn on it, right? They don't understand. The thing is, too, it cost three or $4,000 to get a proper one. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it's not it's it's time.

So, this is always the lagging portion of these PNZ reviews. So when they come in, they see dates, you know, they'll come in with that package on the date they needed to without a drainage package. And I have to tell them at that point in time, you're probably not going to meet next month's P&Z meeting. You're already behind. Well, you know, I I suspect that if if we can locate slashrecreate this thing with literal big check boxes on it that you can give to them and and tell them until every one of these boxes checked, it will not go to PNZ.

And we need to get our engineers to be more speedy at times. Sometimes if I leave them for weeks, they won't address it. Okay. Ranch here or correct. So some of the ones January, February, March, I've had to say, "Hey, where is the where's the report?" Yeah. And I'll get it at that point in time, but I have to ask for it. Yeah. You Yeah. you you have to follow up. Well, again, we're short staff in your department also. I know. I know. Um Okay. Anybody else have anything they want to put on future?

I'm good. I uh make a motion to adjourn. Second. Have a second. Second. We are adjourned. And I'm sorry the meeting took so long. No worries. Oh, what? Oh, Amber didn't realize this.