Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Amen.

Good evening everybody. Welcome to the Thomas Planning Board meeting. Would you please join us in the pledge of allegiance? Mary, would you lead us up, please? I pledge allegiance to the stands for to the republic for it stands one nation indivisibley and justice for all. Thank you. First order of business is the approval of the minutes from the November 5th meeting. Any questions or comments? Supposed to be the 19th from the November 19th meeting. I should have known that. Thank you. Question or comments. Do we have a motion to approve?

Motion to approve. Do we have a second? I'll second. Jim, yes. Chuck, yes. Mary, yes. Zach, yes. I vote yes for the approval. Next, we will open the meeting to public comment. If there's anybody here that would like to address the board on any active application, you may do so now. Given nobody's approach, we'll close the public input. I just want to recognize we got uh Rob Sanuchi in the audience. He's our uh supervisor elect. Congratulations and welcome. Welcome.

And we'll move on to the first agenda item. This is a um continuation of a signed request for Wilkins RV at 8010 Brutin Road. We're going to finish this tonight, right? Welcome back. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, board members. David Rosanti, Metropolitan Sign Company, Baldwinville, New York. Andrew Diesel, Wilkins RV. Thank you. Do we have any new caller? I haven't seen this.

I don't know how they bring it right on up. And I guess what happened last week had a couple questions last week to what are you looking for us to do because the colors that we submitted or use we use all over the place up down the road. Um I just a little bit of a loss of a loss. Yes. signs themselves. This is

correct. That's correct. Yeah. And it was just because of the the actual area that's being covered by the paint. Uh you know, it's big. There's a lot of it. The color that was presented last meeting was too bright in the opinion of the board. Too brilliant.

The top one, the red is different from our logo and it's the same as the flat. We figured we go with that option. If if the options are you don't want that much red, should we just say let's get the signs approved so we can get them hung up and do you want us to do something different just not have some because red's red if it's muted or it's a little brighter. I mean I can bring we can do this for months bringing a different sample. I don't want to do that but we're already lost.

I understand. Yeah. We don't want you to do that either. So if you want to all this for color only got this gentleman this company have up 30° weather hopefully I thought yeah I thought you were doing it in the spring.

So what we were looking that's from last week. Yeah. Can you bring that up too, please? So, this is what was presented two weeks ago and it was the concern of the board that this with that much area was too brilliant.

No, I think we can do one color. Just something a little duller, a little rusty. We talked about right Mark. Yeah, that's the way they want to go. I think guidelines pretty much primary colors are primary colors. spoke with a different sample today one of those samples if there's an array there you'd be like we're okay with this

I'm trying to be difficult if we're not either yeah we're not trying to be difficult personally I darker. There's some dark shades in there. Yeah, that's more of a burgundy. I like it. Yeah,

that's the darkest. correct. We don't have final approval yet, but it was subject to coming up with the color. Mark, what are your thoughts on that one? That's the darkest one in here.

Everybody happy with that? I'm happy. Yeah. Can you hand hand out the council? Can you hand out the council, please? Reds are tricky, too. So, how many coats are I know, but they're tricky. Like, the more coats you put on it changes the color. Like, how many coats of paint? Yeah, I just wanted to be able to reference the number on the back of it. Sure. When you need Krabby Apple. Yeah.

Williams and Home Depot.

I think the darker looks better on the lower three sections, but leaving the word Wilkins. Wilkins more of a nice red. It would stand out from the rest of it.

That's a red that you normally use anyway in the Wilkins.

Yes. when you moving in. Oh, terrific. Oh, I did not know that.

Do you want these samples back? Neil, do we need a seek? Do we need a seeker for this? Yes. I'll move for a standard seeker. Do we have a second? Second. Jim, yes. Chuck, yes. Mary, yes. Zack, yes.

And I vote yes for the seeker. Neil, would you present a motion for approval as discussed, please? by state and board has agreed to display member There will be no question for scrolling.

And would somebody like to make that a motion? I'll make a motion. And do we have a second? I'll second. Jim, yes. Chuck, yes. Mary, yes. Zack, yes. Yes. You're all set. Sure. Absolutely.

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Our next agenda item is a continuation of the site plan review. This is for proposed America's Tire at 8079 Brewer Road. Good evening. Okay, good evening. For the record, my name is Chris Boyet. with Bowler Engineering. I'm back before you uh hopefully to address all the comments and questions and items that you guys had requested regarding our development of a vacant lot in front of the Walmart. It's adjacent to a Mavis Tire and a Federal Credit Union and we're looking to uh propose to build a brand new America's Tire facility. During our last meeting, the board um came up with some comments. Just go through those and how we've changed the plan so that uh it addresses all the comments to date. It was brought to our attention that Allen has recently over the last year adopted new landscape standards as well as building design standards. And while uh they are guidelines uh this

board did say do your best and come back and see what you can do uh so that we can review it. In doing that we had to push the building further back away from uh the state highway. And the reason for that is because the landscape standards uh requests that we put in some sort of trees and landscaping um along the state highway and there's some utility easements out in front and we can't plant trees in the utility easements. So we physically had to push the building back. So, we were able to push the building back u away from the road, go to oneway circulation behind the building, and that provided us room to put in uh all the landscaping per uh plan. There's a tremendous amount of landscaping as you can see put up on the screen. um just tremendous amount u ranges from crab apple trees to u honeyloust trees to a bunch of uh landscaping that's lower uh in on the towards ground cover. So I think we're good on the landscaping uh aspect of it. Um and this board also asked uh if we could move the dumpster away from the state highway as well. So, it was uh put up out up front originally and now as you can see on the plan, it's in the back right corner. So, it is uh located to the rear of the site that's there. This board also asked if we could make sure that we do a nice trash enclosure with vinyl fence. Uh that would be included. I think they did one better. Sometimes it's preference, but they're proposing a masonry splitfaced actual dumpster enclosure. So, uh, way more costly, more way expensive, but, uh,

they just don't feel like Binyl is going to hold up really well. Um, and so they want to go the extra mile and put in a masonry enclosure, and that's shown on the plan. The board asked if uh, we could put a note on the plan that just said no exterior tire storage. And so that has been added to the plan. uh one member and I can't remember who but asked uh if we are going to do New York State inspections at this location and I didn't know the answer at the time. Uh I do know the answer now is no. Uh there they don't perform any brake work here or um uh you know mechanics. This is just a strictly tire business. So uh they do not do uh New York State inspections at this location. And then I think the last item was uh building standards. So just like we did with the landscaping, took a look at the building standards in this area and um reviewed the code and came up with some site design um that fit for this location. So this is the standard initial application that was submitted to you. This is the one that you said, "Can you do better?" So, this is what was submitted. Um, it is a good look. We're proud of this look. We build it a lot across the country. Um, this has got a little bit more cornice detail on the top that's there. Um, it meets a lot of the standards that are out there. The one standard it doesn't meet is the amount of glazing or glass on the front of it. So that was the hiccup for us is how do we incorporate more glass into this for

the glazing. I think the requirement is up to 50%. That's a large requirement of glazing but again we talked about us not wanting to put all of our u baggage on view like you know we're going to have the doors face the main road. It'll have a nice look, but we don't necessarily want everybody looking in at John or Sally changing the tire of somebody's car, right? Uh it isn't like a retail where you're trying to say, "Hey, this is uh you know, buy what's on the mannequin," uh kind of thing. So, what we've done here, as you can see, is we've added a lot more glazing uh to the actual overhead doors that are there. Uh I will point out it does not meet the 50%. But as this board asked do what you can. Uh we feel comfortable with this that this we could live with this. It does add some cost. It adds some operation um cleanliness that we have to maintain so that it it presents well all the time back there. But I think it does get you more of the uh glass closer to the code as it stands. And with that, I'll turn it back over to the board. Uh I believe those were the only items remaining. Look forward to uh continuing the conversation and hopefully moving forward with uh the project. Thank you. We'll open up to questions. Jump.

I'm good. Chuck, looking at the three main overhead doors and on the 11 side. Looks like the only glass is two rows in the middleish of the doors. Is that what I'm looking at? Yeah. The upper portion of it. Um it's not quite in the middle. Um you kind of look at Okay. Right. If you look at the the man door, right, that's over here. That's a full height person. Okay. And if you draw that along, they would be having to really try to peek into that top bottom window. They're they're still quite tall.

Okay. So, you can see lighting and activi some activity, but that's the extent of it then. That's it. That's it. As opposed to full glass doors. That's correct. Okay. All right. I think it's a nice nice look. All right.

Um, thank you for addressing our concerns and specifically adding more landscaping. I really appreciate that. Um, I just wanted to ask about the material like what is the white in your elevations? What material is that? So, this white material around the top of the building is called ephus and it's um almost looks like a stucco finish that's there. Okay. So, it'll be rough.

It's like a rough almost like a textured ceiling look, you know. Um, it's white. It comes in white. Okay. Um because part of our design standards, we require different colors. Um so is the bottom gray lighter than the dark or the top? So you've got uh the light gray doors. You've got a um a darker gray. Okay. Um up here, just the doors. Yeah. And then you've got the white or the cream up here and the black.

That's correct. And then we're carrying that same door color over here. And then the bronze for the storefront. Okay. I don't know. And there's more distinction on that than up on the screen. That's why I asked. Yeah. Sometimes projection. Yeah. This is Yeah, this this is better. Probably a little bit more realistic is how it's definitely two different grays. Yes. And it's different material, too. I mean, keep that in mind that, you know, this block here is different than that brick, right? It's got another whole section, right? Different texture that's there. Okay. Thank you. Check.

I'm all set. I think everything looks good. I agree. I appreciate the work that you put into it as well, and I'm happy with it, Mike. Yeah, we're good. You're all set, Steve. So the material that faces the road at the front of the building at the top is ephus. Was that on the first plan proposed to be ephus? I believe it was. It just probably it might not have been called out. Thought the design standard said no eus on the front of the buildings. I'm sorry. What?

I thought the design standard said no eus on the front of the buildings. I just reviewed Anony's comments and it wasn't picked up. So I'm wondering if it wasn't labeled on the first first go around. I don't know the answer to that. Again, I I know that there um guidelines and when we look at this, we used to use ethus a lot like on McDonald's and um kids would lean up against the building and you can poke holes with your pencils through eth. Yeah. Um

so it gets it could get damaged or bumped, right? We've got masonry at the at the base. This is just basically going out uh to hide the trusses, right? The flat trusses. It's up. It's almost like a parapit that uh is up there. So, um it's the appropriate spot for it uh to be used and it breaks it up. Uh there's a lot high up is what's what's the height where it starts? The height where the ephus starts up here is 16 feet tall. The total building is 26 feet tall. Okay. So, it's it's up there. No pencils. No pencils are going to, you know, get poked through the eus. Are you looking?

That's all I had. Sure. Are we good with it? Mark, do you know the ethuses? I don't recall. You think it was discouraged?

If it if it was discouraged, would it be because it if it was on a lower level, it could get nicked? I think because the remaining the concern. Yeah. The remainder of the sides, it can't be closer than four feet to the to the ground. That was the that was the one of the concern. And this is the upper level. Mhm. Yeah. Mark, anything additional?

Us to provide a clean out for the sewer. So, it's not shown on this plan, but there should be a 20 foot wide sewer here. So, we'd like to get a clean. So, let's call it about 10 ft from the connection point here. That's going to delineate the responsibility between private side public side. So I'd ask that you know approximately that sounds reasonable.

And so we we can do an approval condition. With that, I'll make a motion for a standard seeker. Do we have a second? A second. Jim, yes. Chuck, yes. Mary, yes. Zack,

yes. And I vote yes for the seeker. Neil, would you propose a motion as discussed, please? the application on the table properties LLC retail facility two will provide a on the connection. And would somebody like to make that motion? I'll make that motion.

A second. Jim, yes. Chuck, yes. Mary, yes. Zack, yes. I vote yes. All set. Thank you. We appreciate the help and look forward to bringing another business to town. Look forward to having you here, sir. Yes. Thank you. Welcome to Cisero. Next item is a sign application for a proposed circle I'm sorry for Circle K at 5565 Bartal Road. It's the first one coming in.

Good. Thank you. How are you? I have nothing going on this project whatsoever except for corporate ID solutions as me to be president at the board meeting for them. Lucky you. So I don't know where you guys stand on this project but know about it and you have the packet. I just received it like today. So you're requesting a sign. It's 100 foot tall, corporate ID solutions and square footage 400 something. Yes.

Yeah. So, this is I'm presuming at some point going to have to go in front of the ZBA. It's Yes, we received this zoning uh board application as well along with this, but I wanted to get it before the planning board initially to get their thoughts on what's proposed prior to going to the zone zoning board. You may not be aware, but they actually have signage right on 81 for those, you know, services being provided at the next exit.

They have them on both directions. What's and you probably don't know what's what's the the purpose of this I assume is to catch traffic off of 81 but the signs are already there and it's exceeding our limits by double going from 50 max to 100 max. So those are the arguments are going to have to be presented at the ZBA and that's something I would have a question of. I also I took a trip recently to Michigan to see my granddaughter and I have the GPS map, right? And when I needed gas, I just pushed a button, ask for the next gas station. So I Googled it. 95% of the commercial truck drivers have the same service. So what's the purpose?

Signage has a purpose. It's to catch people's attention. I mean, that's the bottom line. So uh is the only purpose of the sign is to throw that up here so you can see it. This one in particular is going to have the LED display on it so it shows the fuel prices on it and that's something you're not seeing on the side and especially if you're driving a tractor trailer and you're pulling in and buying several gallons of diesel fuel at the time. Might want to skip one station less a gallon per diesel. Yeah, good point. But they're not going to have that sign at the next one. Not in Cisero.

This is I what I can tell you for sure what I need solutions doing is upgrading all their signs across the state. So down by right near our building location they just did their signia just north of water. They just approved their sign last month. So circle is just revamping all their locations. So, you know, the variance, we'll leave that to the in the good hands of the ZBA and whatever they decide we would handle handle the site plan process of it. Jim, do you have any questions? Okay. So, the existing sign you can't see and it does it doesn't have the fuel prices on it.

So, the existing sign as far as I can tell I just received this at 5. No, it does not have fuel prices on it. 50 tall and they do have did you guys receive this packet? Yes. Yes. Okay. So, they did some shots from Interstate 81 where you can actually see like they've circled it red is not where this one and it'll have the prices. Correct. Chuck, does this replace the 50 foot sign? That's my understanding. Yes.

Okay. We'll be at the station position uh of 81. In other words, on the west side is sure. Yeah. It's station over here. This is Captain Road. Their property include this little bit over here. Okay. The parking ride is over in here. Uhu. the existing proposed existing signs here that will get replaced. So that that's very it will be in the safe zone. Okay. Okay. Thank you Mary. Yes.

So in the packet it includes a picture of the Cracker Barrel sign. How tall is the Cracker Barrel sign? It's not 100 if I remember correctly. It's might be like 75 ft. And that is plenty high enough. I'd have to go back and and look and see it. That's from years. Yeah. Years ago.

I'm not opposed to a higher sign, but doesn't need to be that tall. One of the things is I don't know how long I don't know how visible sign is for how far away it's visible.

So it it's been in place for over 25 years because the applicant called it a precedent that we allowed that and frankly I think that hurt your the applicant's request because that was 25 years ago. Things change relative to And actually, we'd be creating a precedent for new signs if we move forward on with this. One of the thoughts that I had. I'm glad you mentioned that. Anything else? Nope. Zack, I'm all set. Thank you,

Mike. See? No. So, we'll just follow up with the applicant for the earliest ZBA meeting. This is also going to get referred downtown county because of variance is required for it as well. Your concerns uh heightwise you'll report back to the applicant. That was question. No. Okay. Just want to make sure. So I'll take You are you are here for the applicant. I'll take that and I'll I'll report that back to them. I'm sure they'll they'll do some more research and they'll get back to you and they'll send me back out here again for the next meeting on this. Let me just check council anything additional.

Mark, um I say this the way this is proportioned is kind of kind of asymmetrical. I don't know if they can I know you probably want both the same height, but it's possible stacking on top of each other so you have something that's more like big. The answer to the question is yes. This is essentially so again it's not not my decision.

Sure. One thing I would be consider what I'll make sure to do when we come back to the next meeting then is I'll actually have some good quality photos for you of the designated exactly like And obviously it doesn't

is it the same height? I don't know the answer. I want to tell you yes, but I don't. It's a lot taller than the one that was there before I played. I'm not going to be in that. Okay, I will uh I'll make sure I know the terrific. Thank you. Good job for last minute notice.

You as well, sir. And the last item on the agenda is also for a sign request. This is a proposed Burlington sign at 5671 East Circle Drive. Good evening.

Can you can you grab the mic, please? So, uh, my name's Ronnie Cassiss. I'm here from Cassie Signs. Um, I'm working with Blair Signs, who is the one that are making the signs, sending it to us to install. Um, so we're representing the new tenant um that is going to be moving into that building and for their exterior sun package. So just kind of looking to see what would get approved and what would approve. You want to kind of go through what you're looking to do?

Yeah. So we're looking to put up four sets of letters. Um going to be one on the north elevation, one on the south elevation. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. So one's going to be on the north elevation, one on the south elevation. one on the east elevation and then one on a parapit wall on the west elevation. Um so they're just looking for their exterior sign package. They also have some smaller signage in the front just like a blade sign um and some wall plaques as well. So just looking for updating to their new logo um with that red background and the white copy on that main front south elevation. Um and then the rest will have the red faces because it's a secondary signage so that it's a little bit more easy to read from the road. So,

these are pretty much where the the Office Max signs were. Yep. It's all in the same spot as the old Office Max signage. Open it. And everything says Wow on it. Yeah, I think it's it's part of their new because they used to be Burlington Coat Factory. Now, I think they're changing it to, you know, kind of more things that apply more to what they sell now. So, they kind of sell more brands. Kind of like a TJ Maxx, though. They're not really a coat factory anymore. So I think that's why they're switching it up now. Chuck know there was a Burlington over there. Yeah, there a new one new tenant there. Yeah. Are they operating? Not yet. No. Oh,

probably next year they'll probably be open. Oh, they're moving out of clay. Um I think it's a new location. It's a brand new location. Okay. Well, they used to be here. Oh, gotcha. Okay. Thank you. Mary. So, we're back to the big red sign. I know. I was I saw you guys thinking about the other red. I was like, well, I have a lot more red. So, yeah. So, where your letters the signs where your letters are red, that doesn't bother me as much as the big red background. I think we'll need samples of the red.

Can you go to item C? It's in jail. Any thought of flipping it and making the background white and letters like like that? Yeah, I can check to see because I they do they are pretty flexible. Um I know this is their main signage and it's their main um like their primary new logo. So now they're more towards the white letters with the red background. Um I actually pulled a picture from their new Hartford location that has it's the same red background, white copy because it's kind of what they're moving towards now. Um which is why the secondary signage is the red copy. It's their kind of fallback, you know, logo style. The problem is the red background. That's not the sign. That's the facade. Yeah. So, they would be changing the facade.

They're going to change it. Change it back to white. Yeah. I'm not sure if they're painting it or just adding because this one has um panels that they just painted. So, I think they're just going to paint the existing storefront and just install on top. What Mary is saying and I would agree with her is that you got to reverse those colors. Make the letters red. The sign Wilkins is a color scheme for sure. Are the proposed differences?

This looks like Yeah, I would have to check with our customer because it's kind of a I'm this is really early in their process. So, I would have to check if what they're planning to do on the building itself. I'm not sure if they're, you know, renovating the whole building yet. So, I can definitely check with our customer and see what they're planning. Yeah. The other half is still going to be the the tenant that's there.

Yeah. I think you want to keep the facade all got to work together, right? So, I think you want to see the whole the facade on each side and keep it continuous and again the red is a facade and that's not consistent with the rest of the plaza you know what's there again being so bright primary color so it seems these more muted tones would be more appropriate for the top and what you do with the letters if those are red

yes Steve, how do you handle that when you're dealing with the new tenant and the the U CL is being handled through your office relative to the coloring of the building? Well, that's the why this is here because the red I think we could have dealt with it without that red. So, that's why we're not you're what you're saying is we're not sure what they're going to be doing with the building.

Yeah. Um I'm not sure if they're much. Yeah. Um because I I the main reason I think they want that red um because they're they want to paint the south elevation just the storefront and then the parit wall where the west elevation signage is going to be. Um mostly because it's pretty far from the main road and it's more facing towards the plaza. So I think they wanted something that's going to kind of catch your attention a little bit more. Um, I printed out some pictures as shows the distance from the road and then it shows on Google like how I kind of circled where the building is. So you can kind of see how far out that is to show that visibility which is why I think they want that red to pop a little bit more. I have another copy as well if you want to pass around. It's another copy.

Thank you. I won't go any further. So that um I think that one was I think the closest to the main road where you would see that sign, it would be almost 600 ft from there. So that's why they kind of want to get you so you can see the signage from driving that way. Also got signage on pylon signs large signs for marketplace that are going to have Right.

Yeah. I think they just want something more to pop so it's, you know, consistent around all their locations. So if anywhere you look for a Burlington, you kind of look for the same storefront. That's kind of the idea that they're looking for. So I can definitely check with them and see if they're willing to change it. Um the red faces. Um it's just something I would have to ask with them first. We're gonna we're going to want that. Yeah. Just so you know. Question. I mean, so we've had this come up for two different things in the same meeting. So, should we as a town have approved Red's offer? So, we're not going back and forth.

Well, so what we're telling her is that the lettering can be red, right? That's the sign. The red building is not acceptable. That's what we're telling.

We don't make the rules. We just every single site is going to be a little different. Every single application in front of you, you're going to go against us. You may like that. Thanks, We touched on it before, but doesn't guidelines discourage primary. This is pretty much a primary color, right? Yes. So, it's a standard already in in the code

these types of are using that word. I don't know exactly. Go back to that street view. different building, but could you aim over towards Lowe's?

Uh, you go back up to the aerial. You got some more. So, you know, for the most part,

I think if you go more left to the main low sign, I think they have a colored background, too. It's It's blue. But yeah, you keep going too. There's more. But again, this was not a long time ago, right? 20 years ago. Right before Stanley. Yeah. Years and years ago. But it doesn't look bad. There also is that MO too. I I don't know if that's a current tenant. Would that kind of fall under the same They're current.

It's there. But again, the signage and all that

we have updated standards I think within the last six months. It's been a year. It's a year. Yeah. Does how far it's from the road determine the color? Like one's closer to the road, you don't want it versus something that's set back. Does that make a difference? No. Red's red. Okay. Mary, you I'm all set. Thank you. I am as well. Mike, Steve, that's all I have. Yeah,

Mark. I don't have anything else. I think Do you feel you have enough direction? Um, I think my only question would be if they do switch to the red letters, would that fall under a regular sign permit or would I still have to apply for a variance? If they're not exceeding the previous signage and square footage, then you'd be all set. So, it would be approved if it was switched colors. Okay. You would handle that internally? Question. So, that's what Wilkins is, right? Just the opposite of the pan, right? What's that? Wilkins is the other way around. Switch red, white versus the on the sign itself with the Wilkins.

You all set? Yes. Thank you. So, thank you. That concludes our agenda items. Any discussion from the team? If not, do we have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. And do we have a second?