Historic Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

We were not ever aware of that. The first time we heard of it was Warren, which I don't think is right. I think at least if there's a new resolution. That's kind of like a resolution, right?

That is a resolution, yes, to adopt a new resolution.

If there's a new resolution, we should at least be aware of it, and we weren't. And while you saw me at the meeting recap with the council, according to Sandra, They propose that to compensate staff.

Yeah. Hello. How are you guys doing? Doing well. Can't complain. We're waiting for Fowler.

There has to be a minimum of three members to establish quorum, so we're still waiting.

No worries. Traffic's pretty bad.

Yes, I know. It's terrible. I was rushing to my house.

It's so stressful. We can't start anyway.

Yeah, Paul and I, I'm sure, got stuck in traffic. Well, that's one good thing.

Sorry to see you guys go. I'm actually coming. His client is going.

Oh, you're over here. I just bought. You're the buyer. So I just wanted to. No, not that house. A different house.

Not to confuse you. Yeah, I bought a house on 92nd.

On 92nd. Yeah.

Working on it.

Working on it. Yeah. Hi, Warren. Hello. Hello.

You're kind of tossing the idea around. Yeah, just completely.

Maybe, maybe.

Let me see, I'm going to hang up for a second so I can call Paola, and then I'll call you back. Fire.

Can we just make sure we all have our mics on for the record? We have issues in the minutes lately, so we want to make sure we record them properly.

Okay.

Sure.

Yes.

And for a roll call. So, Mrs. Heatley?

Here.

Chair Bonaduce? Here. Mr. Sade? Here. Mr. Serrano? Not present. We have quorum.

Great. All right. So order of business. We have public comments first. Public comments before. Does anybody would like to? No? Everyone's on the agenda. Any public comments? No?

I'm going to bring up some stuff when we have our discussion.

I would like approval for the minutes.

I move to approve the minutes from last meeting.

Any second? Aye. All in favor?

Aye.

Minutes approved. All right, our first action item, 6A, Certificate of Appropriateness. Owner is Jeffrey Tully.

I am here representing Jeffrey Tully because he has to go out of town.

Would you like to stand up?

Did you want to introduce it first? Yeah, if you don't mind. Just for the record. So the applicant, Mr. Jeffrey Tully, is requesting a certificate of appropriateness from the board seeking a replacement of existing red clay barrel tile roof throughout the residence. The property at 349 Northeast 93rd Street was originally built in 1924, developed by Shoreland Company featuring Cuban roof tiles. It received its local historic designation from Amishore's Village in July 1983. This two-story Mediterranean revival-style home is situated on a 6,350-square-foot lot and includes three bedrooms, one bathroom, and an approximate total area of 2,190 square feet. The applicant is proposing removal of the existing roof tiles, installation of a new red clay barrel tile, while seeking to match the current roofing material as closely as possible while maintaining the historical integrity of the residence. And I believe they're here tonight with a few samples for the board's review.

Wonderful.

He wanted me to call Hinton. Okay, sure. That's okay. All right, cool. Absolutely.

Yes, it is.

Such a pretty house. Centennial home, 1924. It's a beautiful house. Gorgeous. So back story, we just listed it a little bit less than a week ago. Hey, Jeff, we're here. I'm giving them a little back story, and then I'll let you chime in. And being that the roof is perfectly fine in the sense that there's no leaks or anything like that, but for insurance purposes, when a new buyer comes, they're probably going to want the roof to be updated or maybe a full reroof. So he's kind of getting ahead of that process. and going through the motions because he knows that that's probably inevitable. Jeff, you're here on speaker with the commission. Jeff, you there? Yeah, I'm here. Thanks, Brandon, and sorry.

a buyer might want us to read

Great, great. I think we all, living in Florida, understand the sensitivity of insurance companies and roofs. I'm just curious because, I mean, my understanding is red clay roofs last longer. Do you have any leaks in the home?

No leaks. I mean, we had a leak in our flat roof a couple years ago. We'll fix that. We've got no leaks. Yeah.

Yeah, but I think the insurance and mortgages kind of are very aggressive about the roof ages today.

Is there anything else that you wanted to add before we ask any questions?

I have the samples here. I don't know if you guys want to look at them. Could you show them to us?

I guess the Spanish S and then there's the barrel.

And there's just different color finishes based on what I've seen from samples and catalogs of the suppliers. The barrel tile is, you know, seems consistent with what's on the roof now, rather than the Spanish S. And then clay, of course, as well, because it's just got a higher profile.

It's a little bit more pronounced.

Yes, we have we have the the photos which are very helpful I

I don't have any questions. I mean this is what I would be, this is what I did on my house. I use these, the veria tiles. I did, yeah.

I would say maybe to consider, I think that the red roof tile, It's used, of course, in this style of homes, but given that the house is a Centennial home and that it has some history, the other tiles, like the Fumé Aneja.

Fumé Aneja, I don't know if you can hear her.

Yeah, I can. Yes, or if there's comments.

Pumey, Aneja. Other tiles due to the fact that it is a centennial home, maybe other colors like Pumey, Aneja.

Aneja, there's a Jacobia blend.

Jacobia blend.

Jacobia.

I like vintage as well.

Vintage. Yes, just because... When you have a home that already is showing the years, which is also the beauty of it, having the matching roof on that regard makes it keep more of the authenticity. In terms of the material, I think is the right selection. You're being consistent with the style that it has right now. But maybe if we were to go with...

A color that maybe matches a little more where it is right now naturally.

Exactly, yes.

The ones that she's pointing out have like an age, an aging to them, not solid red.

Yeah.

So something that maybe just has like a little bit more of like an aging to it. It doesn't look like it's brand new. To give it a little bit more, it looks like it has a little bit more years. That's just, that's their comments right now. It's just something to consider. Just something to consider, they're saying.

Well, yeah, definitely will be something to, that we, that at least I would feel inclined to vote for and, you know, get it done today.

Okay, perfect. My only concern. On that note, I'm totally, it sounds great.

We'll pursue that. In terms of, you know, as approvals go or permitting or like material availability, I know both companies said that the red is the red.

Yeah, I was going to say that was going to be my concern.

Right yeah, I I agree with that I think vintage Is very nice and still a new roof right like you you know what new windows look like also on a Historic home, so I think I agree with vintage if and if it's not available. You know I'm okay with red.

Yeah, me too. My concern with vintage is like the village is so They like cited me for having a dirty roof that would be my concern with the other two yeah it wasn't even really dirty so i would say like it would be nice just as long as you know it's not the ones that are overly yeah right okay yeah so i um but but i think i mean i don't know if if the i mean at least on my end my the

The caveat will be since you have time and it's good that you already are getting ahead of the game trying to change the roof, it will be let's make it into one of the more vintagey instead of the red. I mean, that will be my opinion.

I think my opinion is that vintage works and if it's not available, then red.

So shoot for vintage. If vintage isn't available, then red.

Yeah, we can take a vote on it. I motion to approve vintage and with the backup of red.

Okay.

I second that. What does Patricia?

Patricia has to say.

We have a motion. It would just be a motion. No, just motion. Wait, wait, wait. Patricia, did you hear that?

Patricia, did you hear the two options to vote for?

I will follow you because you can see the material and I will follow what you decide.

No, but I think you would understand if we explain it.

The owner had a comment before the motion?

Jeff, you have another comment that you'd like to make?

Yeah, one last quick thing. There's around the flat roof portion, when they re-roofed it in the 90s, they did a decorative trim of the barrel tile, which is really So I would like to keep it because it's really nice. But in the case that the building code doesn't allow it, just kind of permission to proceed.

yeah i think that's based on building code um and and eddie can help with that um okay well patricia i can recap um so you you have the color of the uh page one in the in the, or also it's on the Vera Clay Roof Tile brochure on page three. It talks about the various shades. Do you see that? Patricia?

I can see that.

You have individual colors, pre-blends, and aged reds.

Correct. The owner had come in with the option of red because of availability. It's easily available. Paola mentioned because of the, you know, the fact that it's a historic home and the age of centennial home that it would be nice that it's a little bit more aged. Vintage is one of them. She also suggested Anejo and Foom, which might be more difficult to get. Jeffrey had a concern that the village requested that you clean your roof when they get to look a little too old. So I had motion to approve vintage, but if it was not readily available to approve red, Jeffrey second that. Paola, I don't think is in agreement. And we're asking, we're wondering how you would vote.

Not in agreement, we'll go with the red.

I think the red would be too shiny, too modern for the house. But if it's

Yeah okay and that's basically what the motion is that they would try. You know, there's another color down at the bottom. If you have to do an individual color, it's called Fumé.

Jeff, they're saying Fumé is also a potential other choice.

Just a solid. If he has to go to a solid color, that looks a little less in your face. Okay.

Which one is that?

This one down here. On page three still? No, down at the bottom? Mm-hmm. Yeah, that might be a good compromise because it's not as in your face as the shiny red but if they can't get the vintage that would be good.

So why don't we why don't we do the motion to like first option the vintage and if not for me instead of the red.

Okay. But it's an individual color.

It's a little different than.

Yeah, this one is the antique. It's antique treatment. Right, right. It's a color. And this is just a solid one.

Correct, correct. So if we have to go with solid, let's go with Fumé instead of red.

Okay.

And if not, but as a first option, maybe the vintage. You want to give them like the three options?

No.

In case this one's not available? Just do it. I'll go down the list, absolutely. Yeah. With vintage and Fumé. But then red, I know.

I understand that maybe the red is the most available but also you know we're talking about a historic home so we're trying well it's our duty actually to make sure that whatever is done is done in accordance mine is kind of is a mix of three different When you do a house that's completely red, it looks like one of those homes that they do in the Doral, you know, where they want to do the new contemporary Spanish, the contemporary Mediterranean that is not contemporary or Mediterranean. So that's why, you know, and this is a beautiful home. I am sure that if we make a little bit of an effort or maybe we wait, you know, a month, if this is not a situation where there's an emergency, the house is going to fall apart or anything like that.

No, they're just looking to sell the home, so I want to be respectful of that.

And in the event, just being devil's advocate here, in the event that there is an extremely long lead time on Fume, like let's say they say it's a nine-month lead time or a 12-month lead time, Is there an option three, or?

I think we should have given them an option three now.

I'd like you doing maybe one, two, and then if that's not available in X amount of time, then they can go to the next best option, which would be the red.

Maybe with a contingency of proof.

Contingency, what?

Of proof. Like, in other words, you know.

Something from the supplier stating that there's a lead time of nine months or 30 days. That is an extreme, extreme long lead time, yeah.

Something more than, you know, because if it's a month, two months, three months, I mean.

Just because thinking, I mean, the reality is if it is an issue with the sale, hypothetically, if they got under contract, you know. Right, they can't. On Monday and the person wants to close in 45 days, you can do the roof change in that time. Right. But if you have to wait 90 days for tile, that kind of, that could throw things off.

so this also i made sure okay um my opinion is that definitely the red will not go to the house and the older ones you can uh go for farther on page 10 that the color this is very nice page 10 to 11 you can see the actual Yeah, we're talking about 20 years minimum Because it's like 30 days or 15 days longer to wait. That's my opinion.

Yeah, I think the issue for them is they have the house for sale.

Yeah, but I think that if somebody really likes the house, there's always ways in the contract to make it work where you could say, look, we are going to change your roof. I mean, if I'm going to buy a house and somebody tells me they're going to change the roof also, but it's not going to happen in the 45 days of my closing.

You can't close, though. You won't be able to get insurance if you don't have the house. Right, the mortgage they won't, the bank will not allow that.

But you have the advantage of getting a brand new roof, which is really nice.

Is there a third option that we could? Did they mention any others that are readily available, or was it only the red?

Jeff, do you?

Vintage is great. Vintage is great. Vintage is great.

Vintage would be what I think is ideal. Yeah. You know, I think... We have to give the third option or they have to wait a month to the next meeting.

I can't make the decision that this is a board decision so either I mean either maybe we don't want to make a decision on this and we put them on hold and you want I'd rather not wait he's got the house for sale and everyone loves vintage the owner loves vintage and we're hopeful that vintage is available even even like Ohio red is better than that bright red okay Ohio red you hear that I kind of thought that too

Is there a way to end the what you guys motion? Yeah, I can. State that. An individual on the on the board or the committee is able to approve something if we can give the You know preference one two and three is what we've done in the past. Yeah, so But in the event that three is not available So for him not for him not to I'm just thinking out loud here if three is not available For him to not have to wait the 30 days to come back for a board approval is there something in the motion that could be stated that states that if you know Jeffrey or Paula is able to give approval on fourth tile you know being that one two three are not available in an email I mean if I would say we're already having the conversation of listing out our preferences yeah so

i think we were the board was more or less in line between the vintage the fume they were talking about the red now we're talking about a red uh ohio red so why don't we just continue in that fashion and then if the board likes they can allow staff to essentially be the middle point person and if if let's say if you run into any issues with sourcing the material, if you can get some sort of confirmation from the vendor that you can provide staff that essentially says this has a lead time of X days and so on and so forth and shows as evidence that you're essentially going down the line of the list that was approved, I think that seems reasonable.

I think that's a good, I think that works.

Okay, so it starts with one. Not available, show it to you, okay, move to two. Two's not available, move to three, kind of, until, okay, perfect.

Yeah, so then our preferences would be vintage, number one.

I just wanted to clarify with the owner, because I don't think the owner really liked fume, but it's not the aged fume. Yeah, it's the individual color fume.

The individual color fume, Jeff. It's not the aged fume, it's the individual color fume. There's a couple of them.

Yeah. That's the aged one no we were I think the preference is vintage and that one is aged but the other one we mentioned is individual colors fume and then maybe the third individual color Ohio red This

you know what it is it's it says Caribbean s-roof tile that's maybe it's a different yeah so we would say that's not the sample is a barrel yeah why don't we say vintage or a different look the fume that's under the age Reds okay in that order. And then if not, maybe the Ohio red would be a third choice.

Okay. Did you hear that Jeff? It's vintage. Then it's the fume and then it's the Ohio red in that, in that order. So one, two, three, Ohio red.

Yeah. There's a sample of that vintage guys. We're going to get it done. All right, yes, I like that. Yeah, he said that he thinks vintage might be, that would be great. Okay, so I motion to approve vintage, number one choice, fingers crossed. The second option would be fume aged red, and the third option would be individual color Ohio red.

Okay, perfect.

Is there a second?

I second it.

Second, all in favor?

Aye.

Okay, great. Excellent.

Perfect, Jeff. We're good. Thank you guys so much.

Appreciate it.

Yes, thank you. Now we've found some good compromise. Excuse me, sir.

Just for the record, can you state your name one more time?

Francis Brandon Brugal.

Francis Brandon Brugal. Thank you.

Okay, so this. Thank you guys. Have a good day.

Thank you.

Thank you. I think you can take, but do they take the appropriate note?

No, I send it to them.

Okay.

But maybe you want to review my notes. It makes sense and. Yes, left-hand side.

Yeah, I would just add that these are aged red and this is an individual color.

Feel free to modify. That's a good point. Individual, okay.

All righty.

Thank you.

All right. Yeah, that's going to look beautiful. Fingers crossed that vintage is available. Hopefully it will be. Yeah, that was his favorite, too.

Yeah.

Yeah, this is a great catalog.

I use this company for my roof. They're really good. Not as good as Warren's company. That's a different issue. That's a whole different level.

I was going to say, Warren, I thought you were here also to present their tiles.

Like, oh, this is great. wonderful okay so we can move on to the next action item discussion it's the houses of the month okay houses of the month discussion item 7a houses of the month And these are, Patricia made some more recommendations.

I also sent some. I think you have a printout there.

So at the previous meeting, the board voted on seven of the ten proposed listings that were sent by Chair Bonaduce. And then before this meeting, Bonaduce also provided a few more properties that are within your packet. And then Mr. Sade also provided a few proposals for the board to consider.

Wonderful.

So I believe there's three available slots.

If I may? Yes.

Sorry.

We have three more houses to choose, October, November, and December. And I made a list of the architectural styles that we already approved in the last meeting. And the more we have in Southern Colonial, we already chose three. So I would like to suggest that we, for educational purposes and to be diversity with all styles, maybe we can choose the remaining three in the Art Deco or Streamline Moderns.

So, Patricia, I do have a question on the seven that we think we approved. I remember us talking about number two, and I thought we decided not to include it. Was I confused? No, you're right. Yeah, no. Paula remembers the same thing.

Let me explain. Let me explain. Eddie, what you put on the agenda was my first suggestion, was not the final list. Right.

This is the new one. I put together a report or a memo. Much better. I referenced the numbers from that list.

Gotcha. Okay, we have that in front of us as well.

Yes, we have the ones that were recommended. Eddie was saying that that was just a reference for this list.

Okay.

So I think these are the...

Okay, so did you want to talk about your additional two, and then I'll talk about the ones I recommended, or how do you want to do this?

Okay, let me pull that up.

Jeffrey, where are yours?

These two are the recommendations we made. This one, these Pathesis making, I sent these out. And this is the list that we approved.

Okay. I recommended two for the three remaining spaces. One is in the Art Deco style, 408 Grand Concourse.

I don't know if you have time to pass by.

with the corner sides and even the potholes for the windows. It's a very specific Art Deco house, very significant. And the other one, it's a property...

Wait, can we talk about that one? Can we just talk? To me, that house is more streamlined modern than it is Art Deco. I don't know if... Is there a record or something that calls it Art Deco? Because... It doesn't look like Art Deco. First of all, it's 1948, which would not have been, I don't think would have been Art Deco. It's really very streamlined modern. The porthole windows on there, the streamline of the curve of the right part of the house, to me it looks like streamlined modern. I like it. I think it's a great house, but I don't think it's Art Deco.

It's a great house. It's a great house.

Okay, let's just correct the architectural style much better. And the other one, it is Art Moderne. It's on 1285 Northeast 104th Street.

The picture doesn't make justice of the property, but that's what I could find online.

which I'm gonna talk about that on board member.

Okay so let's talk about the ones that I proposed.

Recommended a few.

Yeah there's one on 4th Avenue 99th Street and this one is the pink door house. I'm sure you've all seen it. It was on the Heidi Hughes tour a couple years ago with my house. Yeah it's a great house. It's very beautiful. And then the second one really is more of a Monterey colonial so it's a little different. than most of the others. That's Tim Crutchfield's house, which was also on a high degree. Yeah. The third one is an amazing house, but Patrizia has told us that the owner is very difficult and may not appreciate having, yeah, being associated with historic preservation. Patrizia, tell us the story.

We were in one of the events at the library, and we think we were doing some preservation event. And the owner of the house was very reluctant to even consider or mentioning about preserving her house. And she doesn't like preservation or any kind of preservation. events or even taking care of what the house really means for the village. So I think that we could focus on people that really actually

Yeah, I definitely agree. I think that we want to recognize historic homes that we can celebrate and that the owners will appreciate that. So I think that's a good suggestion. And that brings up another point that I want to recap the in open comments I'll mention to share with the board some of the feedback from the City Council in case you didn't Okay, and then the fourth one is a Just like a fabulous Southern colonial gorgeous.

Yeah, the only issue is it is and it's for sale and Oh, yeah. You could buy it. But the only issue is we already have a lot of Southern Colonials on the list.

But I feel like this...

This is probably one of the best examples I've seen. That's the only thing.

It really, really is. Compared to the ones we have. I mean, we did originally kind of talk on focusing on the 30s and the 40s. What I think is interesting is that I feel like we're leaning towards all 30s, which is kind of nice, you know, in a way. But I absolutely love this Southern Colonial 441 grant course, and I would definitely include it in the list.

I mean, this is such a prevalent style. Maybe there isn't a problem with showing more Southern Colonial.

Yeah. I mean, they all end up being kind of 1930s.

And if it's going to be sold, it's actually interesting to be able to show it if it's going to be sold because more people can see it and it can catch attention and make sure that hopefully whoever buys it can appreciate it and conserve it.

That's a good point.

That's an interesting point because would that kind of change the month that we're considering recognizing it? Are we still? I think so. Yeah.

Oh, we could swap it, definitely.

Right. I mean, if you guys agree. I like the idea. Yeah.

The only issue is, Petita, you said the letters went out, right? Yeah, so they already went out to the owners and it tells them you're going to be the March house of the month. You're going to be the April house of the month, so probably we can't. The only one we could probably swap it with is the elementary school. I'm sure they don't care, but that's in September already. It's already out later in the year.

And John probably wouldn't mind. John Song.

John might not mind.

John would probably be okay.

Because it's closer to July and probably the person will be moving in. If I may.

Yes, Patricia. All the residents were, letters were sent out. Even one of them, she answered me very happy. But the schools can just take the place for the elementary school because they haven't been notified yet.

Yeah, I think what Paola's point was that if we could move it up as early as possible because like the new owners would see the sign on their house and maybe, but I think that the earliest we could probably do it is July.

For July schools? Yeah. I think that John would be okay with changing his month because under the circumstances the house is being sold it would be nice to highlight it for July.

He probably will appreciate that as well.

I think he will appreciate that. We can ask him if it's a concern, then we can change it. But I think that, okay, so yeah.

So are we in agreement that we want to include 441 Grand Concourse from 1947? In July. And we'll try to put it in July?

that John is okay with moving his month, yeah.

Okay, and then I like the one that 408 Grand Concourse, too. It's streamlined, we can change the style, but what do you guys think about that? Would that be your choice as well?

I love that house, but I actually kind of like what you said, that it's all in the 30s.

Yeah.

I mean, we have some beautiful 30 homes.

Not that we're not going to show it, we need to show it at one point.

Yeah, that's true.

No, no, no.

It's going to be the 30s and the 40s.

That's what we decided. Yeah, we decided 30s and 40s.

So this one's 1948.

But we end up most 30s, so maybe we do a second year. Just 30s?

You think just do 30s?

Well, just by coincidence. So maybe we kind of like finalize it with the 30s and we do 40s next year.

Here's the problem.

There's not that many 40s, right? That's a little bit of a...

There's quite a few. Oh, there are? Yeah, and the newsletter went out. Did you see the newsletter for March? I don't know if it's reached anybody, but I wrote the description, and I said the houses would be for the 30s and 40s. Oh, okay.

So we have to have one. We have to have a couple at least, yeah. I mean, I feel like in a weird way.

And the April, I had to submit the April write-up today, so we can't change April.

Right, right.

But that's 32.

I mean, it just ends up being there's only one house from the 40s. I mean, I feel.

Well, but we can pick this one, too, and that's 1948.

That's the only one.

No, this one. This one is, the one we just agreed on is 1947. Ah, okay, okay, it's 47.

Yeah, it's 47. Okay, I thought that was the 30s. No, it's 1947. We have 1948. And if we pick Tim's house, that's 1940. Unless you like that one better, or this one.

We need one more. I like this one. I like that one too, but... What do you think?

But if we have more... We point out it could be more educational for everybody because every month with a new announcement of a new house, you know, we just describe the whole architecture and the details. That's educational. So that's why if we just change the Monterey Colonial with Street by Modern, it's a good...

Okay. Okay. All right, so are we all in agreement with that?

We'll do this one as well? What do you guys think?

This is also a streamline where they're known. It is. It's modern and colonial with a couple. On the right side of the house, it has some streamlined modern stuff. But this house is really beautiful.

That's what I'm saying.

And it's kind of the same.

They're both really nice.

Right. But this house is really beautiful. And it's the same architectural style in a way. Which one we have less? I mean. Which architectural style we have less?

We have less streamlined with it. No, right. And we have more colonial.

Well, Art Deco is the one we really need, but there isn't really anything. But there's not an Art Deco, right? There's nothing really great. I haven't seen anything that's really great.

Even from the tour a couple years ago, there wasn't.

I don't remember any Art Deco.

Yes, we did the Art Deco tour.

No, we did the mid-century tour.

Oh, mid-century.

Yeah. The one Art Deco house was on 102nd. There was one. With the big, like, torpedoes and stuff. That was torn down.

Oh.

Yeah. That was the only one that I know that is strictly Art Deco. So I guess we just have to decide. I'm not sure about this one. I haven't seen it. I'm afraid I didn't get a chance to drive by it. So it's one of these two guys.

I suggest even the – we have two 1940s, which is great. But between these two, they're – You know, I prefer the first one. I think we all like it. They're both streamlined more. There's no elements, and we have a lot of colonial. Okay, let's go with that one.

Okay, so Patricia, we're going to go with 1007 Northeast 4th Avenue.

let's decide on the month so we're going to try to are you okay with that yes absolutely okay we're going to try to switch out and they have kept that house very nice and they did a beautiful renovation let's see so we're going to try to swap john's house

And put it in, you want to put, you want to move the elementary school to the end since I haven't presented with anything?

I think we, I was thinking that probably December is not a great month for the elementary school because they close for two weeks, you know?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. So, I actually think October would probably be.

Okay.

I mean. If we're, no, September's a good month. They're back at school.

Let's just leave it in September.

But these two have a lot of holidays because they have the Thanksgiving holiday too.

So let's leave that in September. Let's move John's to October.

John to October.

9328 Northeast 9th Avenue. And then we'll put 441 Grand Concourse in July. Yes. Okay. Then we can put, what's that?

I suggest we end with the 441 Grand Concourse. That could be December.

With 441? Uh-huh. Well, we were trying to put it in as early as possible. Why don't we do 408 Grand Concourse next? That's one of the easiest lists.

Yes. This one. Yeah. The beautiful one. Yes.

And then finally December would be 10,007 northeast. Okay.

That sounds good. This would be 408.

Okay. Good.

And then this would be northeast for us.

I think we're done with that.

I think these are so nice of all of them.

They look super nice pictures.

Yeah, very nice, Patricia. Did you get the pictures off of Zillow?

I got these off the internet.

Off the internet? Yes.

They are nice, right? I got them off the internet. Yeah, it's crazy.

All right, we got our houses.

And Patricia, you got yours off the internet too, Patricia, or no?

Yes. She says Zillow.

Yeah, okay.

Nice, great job.

So that's done, right?

All right, so we got our 1930 and 40 homes. And I see Warren patiently waiting. Yes. All right. So item 7B, historic plaque for 565 Grand Concourse. Next item.

We have it here. we're just not sure I haven't been able to identify the next step is is it that we provide it to the homeowner and they usually what we do is we first

S, coordinate a date for the ceremony with the owner. Yeah, so first the plaque is installed. And then you would know when that has to be installed, yeah.

So first the plaque is, ah, wow, that, yeah. It's heavy, yeah, it's nice and heavy. Look at that, oh my goodness, beautiful, yeah. Forgot how heavy it is. So first, yeah, Eddie, that's our understanding is that First, you coordinate the installation. The city installs it with the homeowner approval on location.

Yep. So maybe we do it in June when it's going to be the house of the month. What do you think about that? Wait until June?

Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah.

Because it's good for the ceremony.

Yeah, that's nice.

Yeah.

May I see the flag? Because it's such a big delay.

I can hold it up. It's heavy.

Let me send you a picture of it. My hand is a little bruised. It's heavy.

Do you see it?

Can you see it?

Patricia?

I can see it in one minute because the video has one minute delay.

It looks just like the other one that we put up. It's the same size and everything, the same shape.

Very nice. It's really nice.

Okay.

So the first time we did it, we thought it was the proof because it was plastic. And we're like, oh, that's a good proof. And she's like, no, this is it. And we're like, what? No. That was our first home designation in 25 years. And it was plastic, right? It was plastic. What was the material?

It was plastic or something. I can't remember.

like, no, and they had to redo it and we got this. And it was like, no, yeah.

So, Patricia, do you want one of us to coordinate with Eddie? Do you usually, like Claudia would do it, would call the owner, but maybe one of us can do it if you don't know who.

Sounds like I need to track down, because I asked the management team and they weren't aware that the village did the installation. So, I need to figure that out.

Who in the management team?

I need to figure that out to see who, what agency within the village would perform that function. I need to figure that out.

I thought it was Public Works, but I'm not sure. I'll start there. Yeah, it was Public Works. They installed all of them.

So, you know, there's been...

But we'll check, Patrizia will call the owner and try and coordinate a date in June with her. Okay. And then.

Give a couple options because that's always.

You can tell the village that it needs to be installed by that date. Okay?

I think we should aim, if we want to do the celebration, we should aim to have it installed in May.

That's fine.

Right, because it usually takes some time. If it can get installed in May, great. Because I know, I mean, we can discuss a little bit about the ceremony.

Right. Yeah.

For June.

Right. And, Patricia, if you can shoot for the first week in June with the owner, that would be great.

Okay.

Because.

I can take opportunity. Well, the letter, maybe they just have received it. That was the same month that they will have the sign, the garden sign.

Right. Yeah. They have a big happy birthday sign in front of their house. I go by it today.

He's going to look into Public Works and see if they can have it completed by May. That should be enough time, Eddie, I think, for installation. I hope so. Okay, but it looks beautiful. Very nice. Okay, great. Okay.

mind if I okay yeah introduce Warren first so that he can leave if he needs to so so no it's not a specifically on the agenda so Warren has brought to our attention that there, as you all know, that there are a set 25 homes that were declared national historic landmarks in Miami Shores. That was done in the 1980s. There was a proposal that was made to the, I guess it's the Park Service that has the National Register. And that was called the thematic group. It was a group of houses that were centennial, they were shoreland specifically, centennial houses between 1924 and 1926. We didn't know until recently that there was a proposal in the 90s that was done for a second set of houses to be submitted to the National Register as a thematic group two. And these are still 1920s houses, but they were, or does it even go into the early 30s? I can't remember.

Well, it goes from 1920.

Okay. And this is another proposal that's already done. All the work is done. And Warren has a copy of it. And I did submit a request through Eddie for public records. And Isabella said they found the original.

They found the original.

They found the original. So, but she said it was not possible to reproduce it because it's bound. So, that's why. They could maybe scan a page or two or something, but the whole thing is bound. But why don't I just turn it over to you and you can go ahead and discuss.

It's a 1927 to 1933. Okay. Yes.

Yeah. Well, Warren Bittner, 287 Northeast 96th Street. In post-tour conversations with one of the members of the board, it became clear to me that you folks did not realize that this board had with the collaboration of Barrow University come up with and drafted a National Register nomination proposal for thematic group two. And that would have been for the new Miami Shores Company. That was the company that took over from the Shoreline Company after it went bankrupt. and was liquidated in prior to Bessemer, right?

Pardon me? Prior to the Bessemer company, the Bessemer properties, right?

They were in the 30s.

Yeah, well, I'm not, this doesn't concern the Bessemer property. Yeah, right, yeah. This is New Miami Shores. Correct, yeah. So, in any event, this was done by a Barry University student for the board, This was sent to the state historic preservation office in Tallahassee for initial assessment. We communicated with them and I have provided you with their correspondence and there's another copy of the correspondence here in and essentially their response was although this is adequate for the time period that it covers that staff person in Tallahassee recommended that the board do a little and she called it a little extra work of by doing a third of the proposal for covering the dates 1934 to 1945 now it was at that time that the board of That took the project off the rails for my board. We did not have any interest in covering that time period. We thought this was sufficient. We had asked staff up in Tallahassee to give us the guidelines and back then the internet was kind of new and So all of the bulletins the National Park bulletins, etc were not readily available We asked a number of times if she could send us that we never got them. I Looked up the bulletin myself just a couple days ago. It's now online. I printed it out. I read it This was in my view sufficient at that time to go forward at it as is and frankly maybe we should have pushed harder but we didn't have the the resources and the internet and stuff back then to make it anyway in preparation for this meeting I decided that it would be appropriate for me to Pass the baton to you guys from 30 years ago. This is the proposal as submitted to us by Barry University. It includes 37 homes. And I'm going to just hand it to you.

And you went and copied it and.

Yeah, I copied the whole thing from cover to cover. Thank you so much. Really, that. Wow.

I'm glad Isabella found her copy.

That's amazing.

But it's.

Wait, wait, I need one.

What? What about the. Lauren, I need one. No, don't make him copy it again. No, we'll copy it. Somebody will copy it.

The copy I just gave Michelle is appropriately for the chairman, so that's your copy. So if you all can give that to Patricia.

And John volunteered to have the library make the copy. Yeah, and you can make whatever copies you need. Yeah, so she said that they would do that. Now, just to clarify, if we were to submit this, you think that

it is everything in there is still applicable that we wouldn't have to change anything well here here's what i think you need to do number one oh yes we have to do this is 30 years old right right uh someone needs to go through the list of properties and see a Are they still there? Did it get demolished? B, has it been so altered that you don't want to submit this to the National Park Service? Assuming that you get through all that and there hasn't been some disastrous changes that have happened, and I know there is one in there that it has, happened to. Okay.

So we have to vet them.

You need to vet it. And you're going to need to take pictures and the correspondence between the Tallahassee and myself, you can see that they're asking for black and white pictures. They're asking for the owner consent forms to be done. They're asking for GPS coordinates, all this kind of stuff.

That's the other thing. We have to get the owner's consent.

I think we need to get the owner's consent. Of course. I think it's required.

It's required. For historic landmark.

So you had gotten, originally you had gotten all the owner's consent.

No, we had not gotten to that stage. We had initially submitted it just for an initial assessment to the Historic Preservation Office in Tallahassee, at which point they responded to us, and I sent you their correspondence, and it's there in the front cover, and she details why she wants us to go do a little more work. Sounds like a lot more work. That was a lot more work.

Well, that's great, though. The fact that it exists is really exciting, but we have another problem. And that problem is that in our ordinance, it doesn't match what's in the county or the state. Our ordinance says that in order for us to recommend a house to the National Register, it has to be locally designated. It's a Miami Shores ordinance.

Oh, really?

This county and the state. I'm sorry.

I'll repeat it.

to have that ordinance because I couldn't find it. And that should have been after, you know, these 1988 designations. I don't know. Somebody has the ordinance?

I have it. Chapter 11. It's, which one would that be?

It's 11-4 C-2.

Ann Marie Buerkle Eddie sent us the link a couple months ago.

Okay, here it is, 11-4 C-2, the nomination to the State Historic Preservation Office for inclusion in the National Register of Historic Places, a structure that has previously been designated by the Village Council an historic landmark. And so many of the houses in there are not historic landmarks. And that clause does not match what's in the... Is it the county ordinance? Yeah, the county ordinance, which does not make that requirement. Right.

Because we know the county actually...

Yeah, I mean, one of the county ordinances that... Basically, in the county of Miami, in Miami-Dade County, you can recommend a house to be put into the National Register without being locally designated.

Right.

Here it has to be locally designated. In our ordinance, yeah. So the proposal is to match Modify the ordinance with the council's approval and all the processes to remove that specific Clause that says it has to be historic a local historic And then while we're at it Warren has recommended a few other changes that might be good for us to make General yeah, so I don't propose that we go through all that today and Maybe we can talk about it the next meeting I'll have any put it on the schedule for the next meeting we can review it okay good all right so we'll do that I'll I'll send the changes that you've recommended to Eddie and then we'll have him put it on next month's agenda I know you won't be here in person

Yeah, I won't be here, but I can be on. You can call.

Oh, you'll be on the phone? Yeah, you can call me. Okay. Patricia, did you have any other questions? No. All right. So, Warren, I don't think there was anything else we wanted to talk about, right?

Warren, did you, the issue with your plaque, did that get resolved?

Is there a solution? My resolution is to wait for the library. Let's see what happens with the library and then I'll go further. If I have to hire an engineer myself, I'll do it, but I think that the library's marker will solve the problem.

Okay, yes. And the library has said, is there a date to install the library? There is.

Well, there's a date for the ceremony. It's the 21st. And I met with Michelle. from the library to this week and we've kind of worked out a schedule of things. I'm sorry? 21st of? 21st of May. Yeah.

And so. I know she's been in coordination with the building official. I know they've discussed and she may be vetting out engineers or a design professional to assist her. Okay.

Yes.

That was the last update that I had.

And I told her to tell them that the village marker here and the one at the community church did not have that six foot requirement.

Did not have the building footing.

The six-footer.

Yeah, the six-footer. Yeah, I mean, that's a building.

It's ridiculous, right?

It's a little bit too much for the... Yeah, it's too much. It's over-engineered. It needs to be a building footing.

Like, yeah, Arliss said it was over-engineered.

What she did tell me was that if it is a requirement, that Ismael's going to enforce it. Of course.

Of course, but that's building code, and if it's building code, it's building code, but I don't...

But you have to wonder how they installed this one in the church when there was a requirement and they didn't do it. Yeah. So we'll see. Okay. So anyway, so that's that. So that's the 21st.

So the library has confirmed. Okay, so she's got it. I mean, they have to get the marker in first.

Yeah, she's coordinating that. And we picked a time of 530 because we have a board meeting at 630. So what she thought we would do is we'd have a ceremony at 530 and then have a reception at the library, and then we can come to our meeting here.

You think? Yeah, because only one hour for the reception and a celebration?

Well, for the dedication, which we'll do in front of the library, and a bit of a celebration reception inside.

It's usually been, like, it's basically, you know, a few words, a couple pictures,

Usually, yeah. Is it, I mean, is it, Eddie, is it possible to move our meeting to, no, 7 o'clock would probably be too late, right? 6.30 is when we need to start. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So I can ask her if she wants to, if she wants to reach it to 5, you want me to?

Well.

To give us more time?

You just think it's too much in one day.

No, no, well, if we move it to 5, so maybe people don't go. Right. And you want people to go, right? You want people to.

That's the other problem, if you make it too early. If it's too early, people don't go.

I mean, I do think that that is a topic worth discussing. How can we get more people or I don't, that's kind of a challenge because honestly the last ceremony was very poorly.

Nobody came.

And it's a library. But this is a library. Library is bigger.

It's probably going to be, this is probably going to be more well attended.

And it's usually the event. At what time is that supposed to be, at 5.30?

5.30 on the 21st of May. Is it at 5.30 enough people are going to go?

You know what?

You can leave whenever you want. I'm sorry. I don't want to hold you up. Thank you so much. This is terrific. Thank you so much, Warren.

Do you want me to forward to Eddie the, I sent you the proposed change? Yeah, I have it. I'll send it to him. Oh, you sent it to him. Yeah, I'll send it to him. It included that email. It did. the county code establishes minimum standards for municipal codes in historic preservation and our code is deficient in We're, for instance, in demolition. That's something that Patrizia and I are working on now. The county code requires criteria to be specified in the ordinance, in our local ordinance, for you to assess when you're considering a demolition. Minimum criteria and our ordinances So is it okay if he sends it all this stuff to you or do you need to get it for me Okay, you know what why don't you send it just to make sure I don't skip something because I know I did I did I do have what you said. What I said, Jeff and Patricia, is since you were considering going to the well to fix this section, why not get as much water from the well at the same time and fix this entire section? There's a whole list, laundry list. Yeah, we don't have that even though we do it Yeah to have a seminar, to have a party at the reception at the library.

But it does say to educate at the very beginning, yes, at the very first year. Oh, yeah, educational, economic. Yeah, so to me that. Educate the promote so this purpose of this chapter is to promote the cultural educational economic and general welfare of the public through preservation and protection of historic or architecturally worthy building structures of the village so to me that does imply that we can have a tour or an event. Sure.

Yeah. And you have inherent authority, I think, to do that. However, it would be nice to just spell it out. Sure. And there are a whole bunch of things that the county The county spells it out. Specifically spells it out that is missing from

Yeah, the more specific, the better, in other words.

I agree. Okay, if you'll send it, if you have time, if you send it. You don't have to send it tonight. You're leaving tomorrow. Okay. Thank you so much. Have a good flight. Safe travels. Okay.

Okay.

I just had one other thing to talk about today. Do you mind if I just go ahead? Sure. John and I talked about a potential date for the tour in May. We talked about May 3rd. It's a Saturday. It's at the beginning of the month so it won't be as hot. But it's still during National Historic Preservation Month. So what do you guys think about May 3rd?

And we usually do it in the morning. Yes. Right. I mean, I like it. You know that, I mean, this is silly, but we have friends in town going to Formula One or whatever. But I think it's in the morning. That's fine. I mean, it is cooler.

Yeah, I think that's fine. For the record, what is the tour in regards to?

We have an annual tour of homes that we do.

For Historic Preservation Month in May. Right. And so this would be the fourth or something like that.

Yeah. Tour. Fourth annual tour.

During the pandemic, we did walking tours and then driving.

Oh, we did the bus.

The bus was the mid-century. And then last year was the centennial home tour. It was beautiful, right?

So I'd like to suggest that we form a, what do they call it?

A fact-finding team. Fact-finding team.

So that we don't have to discuss it only in the meeting. We can get together separately from the meeting. board members, if we are just talking about that specific topic, because I don't think we need to be in a board meeting. We won't have time.

Right, we can't really organize. Yeah, it's too much to only have it in the meeting once a month.

So we were told, Paola, that Claudia, right, that we're able to have fact-finding teams right without violating the sunshine laws so Eddie does that okay that's right okay that's what she's okay finding two to three people her we have like committees

I don't think it has to be limited to two or three, though. No, I think it could be the whole board. If the whole board wants to meet, whoever wants to meet, I think so.

As long as we stick to that topic. Right. Okay. And then we can talk about other things that are not related. Right.

Right. We wouldn't be able to talk about anything that could potentially be here. Correct.

Correct. Correct. Okay, do we need a motion to establish that fact-finding team or is it just something we agree on?

Make the motion to to start the fact-finding team All right, so we have approved the fact-finding team for the May historic tour great

to our tour and everyone is in agreement with May 3rd, Saturday, May 3rd.

I may not be here, but I'm not totally sure. Oh, you're not sure yet? Okay.

I mean. I go to Peru on the 8th, so. On the 8th? Yeah, and I'll be gone almost three weeks, so I really like to go.

So, yeah, no, that's fine. Okay. I mean, since it's not, I'm not completely sure. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I'll initiate the first meeting and we'll have it at my house. Okay.

Okay, and I just kind of wanted to give a little recap to the board of the It was a workshop That I attended representing a historic Preservation board a workshop with the council So So Eddie sent it to all of us. I think I was the only one available to attend. It was a very last minute thing. It was like a Monday fact finding on Tuesday. I remember it was very, very, not a lot of notice, but about attending the workshop because the, Council had requested, I think through Isabelli, having this workshop to better understand the board missions and objectives and things like that. And so they asked questions. So somewhat of the summary, I mean, I think the majority of the board really acknowledged and appreciates the work that we've done as a board the events they said were very educational you know the tour they mentioned the tour they loved the tour so I think that was great there were a couple of things that kind of came up in terms of the questions and one of the questions from the mayor was he asked the attorney, he didn't like the part in the ordinance about, can I see the ordinance a second? About that a home could be designated without owner's permission and that he asked the attorney if that could be taken out of the ordinance, that he's not in agreement with that as a property rights advocate. So the attorney said that she, you know had thought that that was dictated by the county ordinance and I also mentioned that was my understanding that that's something that's in the county ordinance and that you know that based on the county, you know, needed to be in there.

I also... Yeah, county supersedes whatever local...

Right.

Yeah.

So that's kind of what the attorney said. She was going to double check. But it kind of got the topic going about, you know, and I think that council also agreed that you know not in agreement with Sandra with designating and so I did mention to the council I said just to to be clear our board has never as a board recommended designating a home without the owners permission there hadn't been any designations in 25 years and we have all of ours have been volunteers through our activities of education and tours and celebration they've all been voluntary the four or five that we've done and the markers of course so I think they were appreciative of that So I think it was interesting it did. Then there was a topic about I think something's got a little confusing in the budget because there was The attorney had said, well, you guys.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, the attorney had mentioned, well, I know there's been questions in the past about this board and whether or not its scope is educational. And I said, I'm surprised to hear. The attorney said that. And I said that I'm surprised to hear that because, and I read the ordinance. I had the ordinance that Eddie had sent us. I specifically said that it is to promote the cultural education. So I'm surprised to hear that. And she mentioned that I think it was in terms of budget, right? And then they mentioned that, you know, for the centennial we had, I said that was just once every hundred years because... We had requested $10,000.

Which was, by the way... For the centennial celebrations. And we did. Originally. But they turned it down.

Which Claudia had said that we should... once every 100 years, but somehow I feel like there's, and I told them we're very sensitive to all of the budget pressure that the village has with the seawall and the septic tanks, and we understand that. And for the most part, a majority of ours are self-funded. Self-funded? Yes.

For the most part, yeah.

For the most part.

I mean, I thought the bigger issue, I thought you told me the bigger issue was like the staff.

I think that's the issue.

That they didn't want to provide staff for the dedication ceremonies.

Do we need that? Right, that was what, so what I think.

We were thinking maybe not, except for something like the library maybe.

I think the library has their staff now. I think the library has their staff too.

And the library has their staff and their staff can dedicate some time to that.

They can.

She said they take care of the reception and everything.

But they actually mentioned that the library has the funds. They have the funds.

Yeah, and the library gets a huge chunk of the funding of this village.

Of the village, yes.

The village. They have a budget from the village.

They have a very large funding from the village. So the library's not... From all the taxes, in other words. Yes.

I don't think the library is an issue. I think it's when we do dedications in individual homes. We usually have them set up tents and chairs and bring a pedestal and music.

And that is overtime for the village. And they've been very poorly... attended other than us and yeah and you know the mayor's always there and one of the other council people jerome has always been there but that's it and that's overtime so i think my interpretation of the budget concern is most like, because remember the budget lady one time said at a city council meeting that, you know, that the historic board costs money. And I think it's because of the night.

I think it's the effort, yeah.

I think it's the cost to the village for the night event.

Okay, I'll turn it, we'll turn it over to you in a minute. Is it finished?

So, I mean, that was just it. I think there was a little bit of miscommunication or misunderstanding because of the budget. But you can tell that there's not much of a budget, right? And if we can be as self-sufficient as possible, which we have been, and we've done a good job of that, but to be, I think we should be considerate to these kinds of plaque ceremonies, and if there's a way of minimizing the overtime to the village, I guess is where I'm netting out.

Yep. Petita, you had a comment?

Well, I have three. Let's start for one, and then we can continue. I would like to... to make comments about that workshop that Michelle attended for all of us, which I appreciate very much, Michelle. Yes, thank you so much. I watched it online and I was in shock because a couple of things with the village attorney. First of all, she wasn't aware that designating properties without the owner's consent comes from the county and not from the village, so we cannot

No, I think just to be fair to her, Patricia, I think she did know, and she mentioned that I think the mayor has asked this question a few times. So I think she was saying, no, we did look into it, but I'll look into it again. But I think the mayor was the one who.

Yeah, because.

Another thing with that journey, she was questioning our tools. And believe me, our tools have been self-funded We haven't asked for any penny for doing our tools. And indeed, you were right. Those are educational purposes. So I was really impressed. I don't know. I felt the lack of support in any way. But that's my personal opinion. I think it's being misinterpreted was a comment that I don't know if it was against the whole board or maybe directly to me when one of the village council members said that a member of the board went there to threaten the designation without the owner's consent. If it was me, I think because it's the only person who was answering questions if that was legal or not was me. I never threatened anybody ever in my life. I'm an attorney, and I know you cannot do that, nevertheless, in public. And if I just was informing the village, it was because I was informing what is written in the ordinance. It's simple information. I never threatened anybody, and I, you know, we have been very friendly all the time, very conscientious all the time, and as you just said, Michelle, we always have designated with the owner's consent, and it's been amazing. After 27 years, you know, we had designation almost every three months. So I wanted to clarify that, and All of us have been working so hard and I think we deserve to be appreciated for what we do in our voluntary work. So I think you did a great job there and hopefully they will get better informed of everything that we're doing. I don't know how more because we're very public, but it's okay.

I, you know, I do think there was some misinformation that they had, that the board had, that the attorney had because of, I guess, other, and so other board questions, and I think it stemmed from the budget request, and then I think that it then also because of the comment from the financial person that the board costs this money because of these events. And even the manager, because I said, you know, then we need to look at the budget. Like, you know, nothing happened for 25 years. Now we're designating homes. Of course, there's a cost. And even the manager kind of got like, well, no, you know, but that's in the budget. And I'm like, yeah, for the plaques and the markers, but not for the overtime of the village. You know what I mean? So it was a lot of information. that it was you know I tried to clarify things but I think there is some misinformation on the board and I think I think the attorney was reacting to him from you know comments from the board and other things like where this budget was so I think they appreciate the overall and I hopefully they are you know, understand now a little better, but I think that we probably do have to be just sensitive to the budget. Because they are definitely, and they mentioned the library has plenty of money, like they, yeah.

I mean, as far as the library, I don't think it would be a problem. I do want to clarify that we still have, you know, the centennial tour was a money maker for us, and we still have, We still have some money left from that.

Yeah. What I did tell them.

That's held here in the village.

That's great.

It's supposed to be in a separate account.

Oh, fantastic.

And Kathleen has refunded us expenses when we submit receipt for things. But I believe there is still some money. I mean, it's not a lot. It's probably like $1,000, which isn't a lot.

Yeah. Because I did say there is some cost up front with the events and then we get some income from the ticket sales but it's like you kind of have to front a little bit before the reimbursement as you know.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that took a long time to get reimbursed. Yeah, but that's okay. We finally did get reimbursed. That's all right.

So we'll just have to really think about that in our fact-finding meetings. We'll have to think about that because You know, and even probably ask the village manager or the budget person to, I think, what's in their budget, like confirming this $1,000, but also it's the plaques.

I'm not sure exactly how much, but I'll find out.