City Council - Regular Meeting

how that happens. I do think you're ready. Ready? Y.

Okay. Um, I'm going to go ahead and call the um this uh city of Lafayette city council meeting um worst session to order. Um let's go ahead and still stand for the pledge of allegiance. We'll call that an agenda. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and for all. And I'll change that. Brandon, can you please call roll? Councelor Bolton present. Council Burroughs here.

Councelor Carwell, Councelor Gilgan here, Councelor Kit, Councelor Mackey, um, he's excused. And Mayor Malinson

here. Okay, we have a quorum. fairly. Um, so we'll go ahead and get started and if the other two wander in um so this is our work session for our strategic planning um Brandon did create a worksheet for us um to go through but um at any time if you guys need to veer from it please speak up now instead of at the end of the meeting when you had wished it had gone some other direction. Um, yeah. Anything you want to kick off? Oh, wait. I just want to remind us that Brandon is part of this to give some insight or hey, wait a minute and thoughts and maybe help us facilitate, but that this is our goal setting.

So, please respect Brandon's hard, you know, balance of that. Yeah.

Yeah. So, okay, Brandon, I'm going to hand it to you. So, I just want to emphasize high level focus. Um, last time I think some of us started getting weeds a little bit. This is a five-year plan. I know there's things that that we really want Lafayette to do or or be a part of in the next 10, 15, 20, 25 years, but that's more comprehensive. That's more in totality. I think we need to look at the short term um and with this council and maybe the next council um and try to lay out a strategy for policy in five years. Um, I know last time there was talks about schools and and uh and um uh like creating uh like buying public lands for the schools and Mayor Mayor Malcus and I met with the school districts and there's no any there's no plans to build any middle schools anytime soon.

I can give a bigger report on that um at our next council meeting during my mayor's report because it's kind of interesting. Yeah, like water can build up. Um, but with enrollment declining, McMinnville said, you know, they would probably most likely bust. That doesn't mean it will never happen in 35, 40, 45 years, but I don't think it's going to happen in the next 25 to 30 just with with declining enrollments. So, we we want to focus on things I want you all to focus on things that will be quantifiable deliverables that we can go back and we can track and saying this is what we this is what we said in 2025. this is how we want to make it happen because then when I can then I can prepare a budget if it's going to be budget based policy or if it's going to be um just non-monetary based policy. We want to say when we're done in 5 years, what did we accomplish from 2025 that we set out on our goals for and the things you got to think about just the environmental scan where we're at right now populationwise. We're encroaching 5,000 people. Um and we're seeing about a 2 to 3% growth rate year-over-year. Um, we have the utilities, we have a water, we have wastewater, we have parks. We have the SDC's. Um, we have the park updates that we talked about. You all finished the parks master plan. Is there anything in those plans that you want to see come to fruition in 5 years? Um, housing. Obviously, we're talking we just got the grant for the housing capacity. Where do we see housing going? Uh, wastewater challenges, water, the future of water, also the the future of public safety, fire. Um, so we we need to look at where our environment is now and where this environment can be in 5 years. So why I I love to think 20 25 years out, I don't think we're ready for that because we have all these other things that we're trying to piece together to get us to another comp comprehensive plan when time goes. So, I really wanted to kind of really be, you know, a discussion of 5 years policy and I will be able to help where I can in terms of the factual items where we're at with this, what it would take for this. I may not have answers

tonight. Um, but if there's something when it comes down to monetary figures, obviously this is the first of two, maybe three sessions. So, I think this is just where we get the initial ideas flowing so we can actually have a document to build off. I can bring you back at at a third meeting or a council meeting and say, "This is what I'm going to put online. I'm going to work on we're going to have goal tracks and we're going to say every year budget time, how are we looking? How do we looked at last year at at end of 2026? How do we do for 2026?" And um no idea is a bad idea. Some ideas may need to be a parking lot, which is not right now, maybe later, or maybe two staff involved. But we really want to focus on where you where do you see this policym body in five years and how what you do the discussions you have tonight are going to curate that base for the staff to move but also to hold council itself accountable on on strategies over the next few years.

Well, and I think want and need needs to be balanced too. We all can want a bunch of things, but I think we need some, you know, whatever we come up to, we need to balance that that tough love sometimes. I think that also the five-year plan should be even if something isn't completed or accomplished yet. It it could be in process in five years. So,

so I, you know, one of the first things that we probably should all think about, well, you all, I I can I can I can I can whiteboard this or I we could just write it down and I gather these thoughts and I put them together for the for the next document. But where where do you all want to where do you all see Lafayette in five years? Individually, you can write it down. You can discuss it. I can write it down. But I think this is something you individually where do you each individually see Lafayette in 5 years from today? Well, I like the way you're phrasing it there versus here we said, "What do you want Lafayette to be in five years?" Because I mean, I want Lafayette to be a bunch of things. And I think our community wants it to be this, this, this. But where do we actually see it? Yeah. Because of, you know,

at the end of 2030, say you all say, "My time is done. I' i've done my service. I'm able to walk away as a policy maker." In these five years, from 2026 to 2030, what do you want to see accomplished as policy makers? And how do we get there coming in? more businesses coming in and then the waste water treatment facility. Yeah. The only thing I'd add to that is a uh to lessen the expediency of growth in our annual budget. Lessen the expediency of growth. Want to explain? I think our budget is growing too fast. You Okay. Okay.

Okay. I'm sorry. I was like the growth of the people in the budget. Sorry. Okay. Now, when you mean that, let's try to refine that a little bit. Obviously, we have we have the general fund and then obviously we have the business sector of our of our city, the utilities and SDC funds, etc. Are you talking about growth in taxation of of property taxes or just in terms of us overall as a business? Well, because I don't see cities as businesses. That's I think that's a problem. Businesses are for profit and cities are not. I mean, for profit means we're taking more from the constituents who put us in the seat. So I think priorities have to be getting debt paid off

because the less you have obligated to go out, the less you need to come in. And look, there's going to be growth, right? Like our employees deserve raises anyway, right? Like there are things like that that have to happen. But you know, like there have been ideas floated about the wastewater where, you know, if we raise rates to this, then we qualify for debt or we could raise rates for citizens in order to obligate them to more debt. That's a pay more so we can put burden you with debt. That's that's insan. That's backwards thinking. It it's frankly it's municipal thinking. But I think the reason that this year our city is not struggling financially the way some other municipalities are is that this body has thought differently as far as finances go. And I think we need to keep doing that. That's why we're well positioned in an unpredictable current municipal economic status. Right? Like with federal funding being a little unpredictable right now and therefore the states are getting less and therefore the municipalities are getting less. We're actually pretty stable cons considering what some of our neighboring communities are. And I think that we need to continue that fiscal conservative nature. It'll stay that way. And our city is not growing at a rate in which I think justifies the rate at which our budget is growing. And you know, look, part of it is we have a few areas in the budget where our money goes. That is a crazy percentage of our annual budget. We just we got to find ways to not burden our citizens by taking more money for whether it's through water rates, whether it's through property tax. This needs to continue to be an affordable place to live.

So, kind of like fine-tuning. Is there a way to do this cheaper instead? Like I think I think the biggest thing is getting out of debt first. Like we have so many debt. Yeah. I mean responsible poor, you know. I think as a group this this body did a good job of figuring out what could have been an absolute nightmare of a water situation in 2023. And for a few days it was3. Yeah. I don't know. and like that that can get paid off. But then we do have another financial obstacle on getting the wastewater figured out and we need to figure out how to do it in a way that's responsible to the constituents. Yes.

And transparent more transparent to them like um I feel like the last few years we've been we've been really and that's why we're in such a good spot. The citizens know what we're asking for pay. They know where it's going, right? like we've been very train and I think Brandon's helped a ton with his quarterly updates on the budget. Like we've been really good. We need to stick to that, but we also the budget is still growing pretty heavily year-over-year. And I think when budget time comes around, we really need to zone in on that stuff. And maybe it's long-term planning to make sure that we're not taking on more debt obligations to tie the city for 10, 15, 25 years on bonds. Like there's a lot of things we can do there, but for me, it's a waste water, right?

Me too. That's what we have to plan for because you know that's coming. We don't plan for it. The debt's going to be Exactly. Somebody mentioned the wastewater and I think that just was hand inhand with our budgetary goals and that's a big piece of it. We have to be able to provide the essential services and do it in a way that this is still an affordable community to live in. Right. And I think that many times we do that. Um uh replacement of the vehicles. We're looking to the fire truck is going to need to be replaced in before the 5 years is up most likely and we are we've got a a fund for that and we're we're contributing to that. So not not all of the budget is being spent. Some of it is being set aside for building proper planning.

Sure. Yes.

Well and I think Sorry, I just lost my track. All right. Keep going. I think I think the sewer treatment plant falls under my means that like that's the number one thing that pops out to me. But in a way that that question of where do you what where do we see Lafayette in 5 years? I want to see us looking back and go we handled it before it became an emergency. Whatever the topic is, I want to see that we could look back and go, we didn't sweep things under the rug for others to deal with. It doesn't mean we had solved it 100% or got to the finish line. But, um, I think that we easily could give the can a little bit longer for the waste water if we wanted to. And I don't want to even if it's the tough love that's going to happen. Yeah, I think that the wastewater is treatment plant is a um we need to have confidence that it's going to fulfill our needs and not be not be something that's a surprise. So yeah, that is that to me is right up there if not number one.

Oh yeah, to me it's that's why like it's that need, not the wants. Like there's so many things that I want for this town that Yeah. But I think Fel's right. It doesn't mean that we go out and raise taxes or sell bonds. That to me is never my number one. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to. Not saying that we should. I'm just saying, you know, I I don't want to see that as the easy out. Oh, we can just raise taxes. Oh, we can just get the people to pay for it this way. It's okay. Is there a way to do it in another way? Brandon, you look like you were about to say something.

Oh, no, no, no. I was I was gonna welcome councelor Carel see kind of get him caught up. So, we got we were just kind of talking about um thinking very high level. Yeah. Five years from 2026 to 20 2030, what do you want to accomplish as a policym body? And obviously the staff will work on strategies and dollar amounts obviously in the forthcoming meetings that we have with surrounding this. Um we, you know, we had mentioned things like um not paying fines. That'd be a good one. Um population, utilities, park updates, transportation, housing, wastewater challenges. Um just kind of looking at the environmental scan. We we mentioned we talked about I know there was some discussion last time about the middle school. Yeah.

And we had talk with school the school and we don't think there's going to be any middle school development here or anything anytime soon. So I wanted to kind of just really look in the the next five years. Yeah. And that's kind of where, you know, I want to make sure we're all stay. Well, you were all staying tonight. So, um, sorry I'm late. I tried to get back from Sherwood High. They destroyed McMinnville tonight. My son's all super sad. Anyway, okay. Sorry. I was wondering. I was like, I knew you. I was trying to.

No, you're good. Um, so sewer and I think there's other things that might have to happen in order for other things happen like I know before I talked about possibly looking at does our charter need to be updated for that spending limit that million dollar spending limit but to me that is well that would be a a task in order to achieve other um things that doesn't have to be it's a goal in itself like if it comes to it where Hey, we think that's going to be a hindrance. And where that comes from for me is looking back, um, I've been jumping down a rabbit hole of reading minutes back from um, and they they talked about it years ago about that a million dollars is that threshold is not what it used to be.

But I think we have to account for the population size of the town when it comes to stuff like that. Well, also I mean a million dollars is still what six let's see like what 6 point something% of our annual budget if I'm not sitting here and I'm just a resident I want to say it's more than 6% of the total annual budget like one that's what I'm saying population.

Yeah. Well and I'm not saying it has to. I'm saying we have to consider that where the ticket price on some of these items where like for the sewer if I I'm huge on having our voters have a say in things. Um, but it's I'm going to be honest. It scares me that one of our big things coming up and it's not even that. It could be like a big a different repair whatever that is so easy to hit over a million dollars that we have to wait for another election. Well, so that's why we need to start planning now because those things are happening,

right? And I think uh for 4,500 4,600 5,000 people, a million dollars is a lot of money. That's not like you can just send in everybody send in a check for, you know, 25,000 and we'll be there or whatever. It's it's it's a lot of money. So, I don't mind being accountable to for a number. And if we go to change that number from a million dollars, make we need to have a good reason. Oh, absolutely. That's why I said that that's kind of on my radar. if it needs to be discussed in order to move forward but it doesn't need to be its own for the sake of it let's just do it

you know I think that a project of that size and the scope that we're talking about with the water treatment plan um maybe it it should be well presented to the people and the people you know and I understand that emergencies do come up and things happen in a million dollars can can really fast. Brandon, how much was the Canyon view pump thing that we didn't realize was going to What was I think 1.3 million I had applied for for the grant for the Canyon food pump station. Yeah.

And so I I'm trying to remember back like conversations because I think you're the one that first brought up just putting the chart on my radar. Is being at that million mark though, is that going to hinder us from grants and getting grants where um some other cities I've talked to if it's if if to get a grant that's over a million dollars and the givers of the grant know that in order to spend that grant, you have to get it on the ballot. That that that wasn't the tall tale reason for being declined. And obviously there's a lot of projects, but they that was a factor because in every single conversation I had with the state legislators,

they said, "What's one barrier to this project?" I said, "The million dollar vote getting this money and then being able to turn over an election in November to receive that money in this benium." And that was a big thing because then it would have to go to May and then the funds would have to be expended before that. So some of those things, but I mean at the end of the day, I mean that's not I mean yeah, I just I don't think consideration for a grant is a is good. It's a I mean honestly take away say constituents and specific matters a million dollars like like Russ said million dollars is a lot to a community this size. So yeah, it's like it's what six six something maybe six and a half% of the budget something like that like of our entire annual budget. People should vote on that.

Question Brandon on the wastewater treatment center. Are we looking at having to build a new one somewhere in a different location? Are we looking at doing phases of upgrade? The way Gordon and DEQ are approaching it, I think we can stay at our current location and it would probably be around $12 million or so for the head works. No, just for the new up for the plan upgrades. So, we're not we're not looking at tearing that one down and building another one. We're looking at Well, there'll be two options. Okay. And I can tell you this council is probably not going to want to go for about$25 to $30 million wastewater treatment. We'd also have to buy the property. I assume we would have to probably look at expanding and whatnot. And yeah, Gordon,

you can't tear that one down and have nothing while you build the new one where it was. That's okay. And yeah, I mean, everything rolled downhill, so you want to kind of keep it at a downward. I mean, that that's the most ideal place for Lafayette is where it's at right now. That's what I was. Any type of expansion required encroachment probably most likely of that buying pieces of that big lot. That's probably not going to happen. Um, and Gordon Gordon knows limitations as is the EQ. Um, but I mean looking at what other wastewater treatment plants are going for locally and nationally, I mean we're probably looking at about I say in the low end 9 million. I see on the high end 18. Okay. Just for an just for a rehab and exp a rehab and

an expans a small expansion, but a whole brand new one would probably be 25 to 30 like a 20 year solution is what you're saying. No, no, no. Well, I mean, no. any any upgrades would get us to probably 30 40 years before upgrades. Kind of like now if ours was built correctly 25 20 years ago, we probably wouldn't be in the situation we are now. So I remember when we went on the tour, you guys were talking about we really need a new headward. We're having all these trouble, but I didn't know we needed a $19 million upgrade. Yeah. And so potentially next

how long are we looking at for if we were to do all all the upgrades and remodels that we need to do? How long are we looking? I mean DEQ. So the wastewater the wastewater facilities update. We'll have to go to DEEQ. DEEQ would send it back for revisions. Then they would approve it. Then you all would approve it. And that's probably like within another year or so. Like we're DEQ is moving slower than we are on that. But then in terms of like contractors coming in and doing the work, are we five years of projects or two? And I know you might not have the answers. I'm just

Yeah. I mean I mean if if things worked out perfectly when it came to financing, finding the dollars, going out for bid, I'd say by 2028 we can ground break. When do we have to write that check by So that is our priority. It has to be. Well, that's before you walked in. I think that's what each of us Yeah. stated was whether we want it to be or not that for sure and it doesn't mean we can't work on other things too or have more goals and stuff but

well and and that that's just one I mean that that's obviously one thing or other things that we have livability policies I know there's been a lot of talk about livability standards I don't know this is something that round table if there's something that policy-wise for liability or housing there there's things that we need to start working on because planning commission is talking about mobile food cars tonight and getting those established by zone. They're also talking about looking at driveway standards and the LCDO, you know. So, there's a lot of things that we're talking about that have kind of come to fruition about, you know, just terms of housing livability. Is there anything that, you know, the roads are looking nice? Thought I'd say that. I've heard a lot of compliments for Bridge and Thank you. Thank you. I'll send that to the contractors and the team. There's some there's some other work they're going to do um with some of the painting and the striping.

So much nicer though. Major major low cost. I mean, $3,000 as I mean in the in the scheme of government that's a low cost and I think very high impact. Yeah. So that was kudos to you all. We were able to make it work and I mean it was under budget you know. Well, that to me, you know, that I remember when we were talking about thinking outside the box and doing it that way. That not a now ignore bridge street that kind of bought council time to realize that that street eventually is going to need like substantial rebuild or Right. Well,

yeah, but that bought us that bought us 10 years. I'm saying I don't want to sit on our hands for 10 years and what you know where TSP as a TSP works out like the scope of work was approved this week um by ODOT and we're going to go into contractor selection soon um as the TSP is working through and then the housing capacity is working through. Those are going to be major items that are really going to help us saying, "Hey, here's where we're going to grow, here's how we can grow." Um, and then supporting of the transportation system plan. McMinnville is doing theirs as well. So, we obviously tie in a lot. I'm sure McMinnville is going to talk about how the residents have to go. It takes them 20 minutes to get through Lafayette just to go to work. And we're going to have the same comments on our TSPs on how to mitigate traffic. Um, how do we do that?

Yeah. I mean, build a bridge over contact Sherwood and find out how much cross for that bridge. That be about the length. A pedestrian bridge and it was 32 million. Yeah, but that's my point. I don't see any other ways that push button walk across. Fancy though. In terms going back um going back to like livability like when we look at sidewalks are is there anything like street like is like I'm just trying to open up the dialogue. When we're looking at like sidewalks or walkability like assess is there anything we've talked about trails before not we but it's been mentioned from previous planning commissioners. Is there anything like that we're looking at doing like that you all feel in the five years we should have some headway on

better parking here for downtown build because that's part of the issue here is like there's nowhere to just easily pull off. Yeah, I think that issue will become more pressing at the rate at which businesses continue to move. And look, the last couple years businesses aren't going to want to come in. Well, actually the last couple years we've had, you know, there's a new market in town that did some great work on the building and there's a new pizza place moving in that also did some good work. They'll be hiring fulltime employees by the way. City center market. They'll be hiring 15 employees. You said there will be 150. Yes. We don't need to park them. No, but I mean I think that these businesses will

push the issue and it will, you know, it'll work itself out at the right timeline. I think it's hard to line up a lot of extra parking when frankly we're slowly getting businesses in, right? Like it's not the the time I've always believed that the free private market will pace itself, right? And so as the businesses get busier, the need will be apparent.

Well, and that kind of come like you asked about like what do you see? Do you see trails? Do you see? I would like us just to fine-tune what we have. You know, we just dealt with the this driveway thing or um we've heard from the planning commission, oh, more park land. I I know that we have to look in the future, but can we can we take care of the parks we have? Can we We don't have the money in the budget with this water treatment facility to even be discussing putting in new parks. Oh, no. I would not have to be park SDC, right? And so like we're limited by Exactly. We're limited. Exactly. We're limited by

coming in for it. So like like that's great if we spend all of our money that we could ever find to purchase more property XYZ, but we've got these place, this place, and this place that are just empty lots. Yeah. I'm not I'm not worried about acquiring that like we talked about the the park the what two meetings ago the preliminary design. I think that's great. you know, especially falls within the budget we have through the SEC. But as far as

larger projects, I think everybody here agrees it has to be wastewater. It has to be and and that should the absolute honestly to me if we're talking about five years, that is the absolute priority. Everything else is ancillary and dictated by the dedicated budget through whatever it is, whether it's parks, SDC's, right? streets sec. But as far as our big projects, the wastewater has to be nicable and and it's not close. Well, and it's such a big number one that I know ideally it's oh have this many plans and this many goals and it's that alone start putting things in motion. That's like a circle, you know. Yeah. But I'm just saying like that is a big number one, right?

That's like it almost takes up number one, two, and three in my mind. And and because of the numbers we're talking about for getting it done, it not only is it the biggest priority, it should be the biggest time spent because we need to figure out a way to do this in a way that we we can't have Yeah. We we can't have Labor Day 2023 all over again, right? Like we got to have we got to find a way to do this efficiently. And I mean monetarily efficiently. So I I think that's the the biggest the biggest priority. No matter what comes up, that's got to be the biggest priority. acknowledging that but taking a step outside as far as livability. I would like to reduce how much we spend and how much we tax. Oh, you just missed that convers.

No, no, no. It's nice to hear a second. I think you literally summed up what he had dollar we spend just across the board. That would take off some math. So, the governor talking about So, I know Brandon, do you need anything else from us tonight about the sewer stuff? Um, no. I mean, I think the biggest concern with the sewer and I I talked to Council Gilgan and Jamie about this is that's the one account that we we're not comfortable in. That's the one account that an emergency happens, we're going to be robbing Peter, the general fund, to pay Paul.

Yeah. at a higher and we're gonna have to do it at a at a at a at a interest rate that nobody's going to want to pay. So, as we navigate this, that's when now that we know, I mean, we were already we were talking earlier with Greg and and Gordon about we need to get something done ASAP emergency wise to bring to council for the sewer and it's not looking it's we're going to have to borrow money from somewhere to make to make these things happen. And obviously that's I mean not borrow money from out externally, but to make things happen dollars and cents wise, but there's only there's only much we can do.

There's only so much we can borrow. We can't borrow from our SDC accounts. We can borrow from we can pretty much borrow from the general fund but once we borrow from the general fund then that takes away some of the other abilities we're able to do with the general fund especially we already have the general fund debt for the Mac water light so there's still things that we have to manage with that and what's do you know what's left on the I'm so sorry do you know what's left of the Mac water light about four years right I think four years number we were to write a check to pay it off right now are you offering a year no I said if if Lee were to write the check. Hey, just endorse the check from over.

Well, the will be coming at the next uh she's in my just came my inbox at six o'clock coming to council for the MOU to not have to pay anything on the system for a while. Uh Macwater cut a check August it would be uh 1.2 million. So 1.1 million this last August. Yes. But let me see. We got here we got them at 1.5 annual payment also. Here we go. Uh 590 590,000 is how much? That's what's the balance. Yes. Our total debt is 600 uh 6 6.6 million. Most of that obviously is with the fire bond we're paying until I'm dead. Yeah. Uhhuh. That building.

I'm sorry. The fire you mean for the building? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Luckily the fire station bond it started at 228. keep forgetting about 220.

Would you just say or ask? Is it possible to pay the 590 next fiscal if we cut everything like but do we have the early penalty if we do that? That'd be reasonably. No, because we had talked to them about that if we paid out early and I think they said there would be no remember we were talking interest I think they said who wants I think you point out if we paid early would there be a hit and I think they even said no um I mean yeah for yeah so Brandon if we said we're paying that off next year who's the debt to the general fund or is to Mac water a month Mac water via the water vote so money's worth up more now than later right cash time value money

you Do we offer do that? They give us a break. No, even if it's not huge. No. No. I can ask. I mean, look, the way that public funding is right now, they might be cash strapped. They might want the influx now. They're getting ready for new water treatment plant and then we get rid of that debt obligation. Might open up some lanes for us on the wastewater treatment plant, right? It's if it's anything like my budget where you free up your smaller debt so that you've got bigger collateral. Whenever you do that though, your dryer dies or something. Yeah. Own any dryers.

Well, we actually do it public works facility. Hey, the Malcolm House has bought enough appliances this year to um so if we were to put I mean obviously we're I just sp how what would that do? You said it's possible but what what are we looking at? We're about to freeze up the payments that we have to make each time. No, I meant like what does that do to our budget? Like that you might need to pull James. Yeah. Uh I mean just generally I mean I mean think about we have comfortable year. I mean I mean we have about 400 or so days of of savings for an emergency or catastrophe.

How much is that? That would probably be a lot more than a ballpark. What is 400 days of emergency content? We're on TV people. I know. I think I have the math. I'll just ask them for the flat number. pay for the next 400 days. I don't have to I can get it for you the next council meeting my wrap up next week wrap up. I don't want to quote something and then I come back. So yeah, I I give you an exact dollar amount the next meeting on what that would look like versus how that would deplete our funds without a quote. Yeah. You can give a full um or lower than what it cost

probably like 1.4 million maybe. So 1.4 comes down to yeah 1.4 for maybe comes down to maybe 900 in reserves. We get rid of the obligation. It probably gives us more flexibility for wastewater treatment, I would think. Now, that might be a question for Jamie. Yeah. But that says that loans. Um, and how many days is We got 400. And I know I know you're proud of that, Brandon. I know you are. And I'm proud of it hearing what some other cities are going through. What is the bare I don't want to go with the bare minimum but what is the bare minimum amount of days

well GFOA the governmental uh the governmental financial organization recommends about 60 to 90 days I say a year yeah but I think but I think god forbid I mean god forbid three weeks happen the big one finally happens we can continue services for a year for our residents and we can I mean that's what things like I mean I know we've seen it all the I mean, god forbid something happens in our cyber security system and all of our money's I mean, there's always that that cushion to have. I mean, I know some cities are are okay with, you know, 60 days, you know, but something happens. Other there's, you know, another city that they just had to take a loan out because they didn't have

Yeah. But we knocked that debt out. Yeah. We don't have the payment. That payment would rebuild that. No, it's going to go No, it's going to go sooner. I'm probably going to go to one or two where we need it anyway, right? But it could help possibly with loans and stuff because our debt to ratio. Okay, I'm going to play I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I want to make sure that I am not for having our citizens pay this service fee longer than they have to. But our service fee was created to pay off that debt. It would fall off. It would fall off. Yeah. The $5 one is going to be falling off next

one that would show our citizens, hey, we're not sitting on a pile of money and still making you pay it. What is that service fee producing annually? Roughly. You had easily,600 less than 1,600. We have 600 meters, 1,500 bucks in a piece. So you're tired. The water debt search charge. So the water debt search charge this year, we're projecting about 32,000

which is going towards the math that we worked on for the the backwater repayment. We had that little bit extra flexibility every year. So we're not doing a a big payment that last year. And then just the water maintenance search charge $100,000. Now, I mean, if I mean it could be a bigger discussion, but that that can be flipped to a sewer if it was paid off early. But then I know that because the whole thing is the one thing, especially if we need money from the state, the $15, they would probably rather see that tied into a rate instead of an actual fee.

But that's but that's insane because rates how many times here have their water rate go down like a a search charge falls off. Yeah. rate increases don't they build? Yeah. And that's what we talked about at our at that big council meeting when we put that in was um the big difference between your process of coming with this debt fee compared to just adding it into the rates was the rates keep snowballing. So if that's what the state wants, are there alternative modes of funding? Is there an institution that would that would actually lend on the fact of search charges rather than rate increases?

I haven't asked. I mean, maybe private private banks would at that point. I'd rather use a private bank. I mean, because you're you're ask the state has essentially asked municipalities to be fiscally irresponsible for their constituents. And that's I mean, that's a problem and I understand that bigger cities have less issues with that, but I I I think most people here would agree that this is a pretty fiscally respon like fiscally conservative constituency. Yeah. Mostly. Yeah. Yeah. No. Who wants to increase their water rates so that they can qualify to like let's pay more monthly for water so that we can take on debt?

Yeah. No, that's that's backwards. Well, I get it and I agree with Lucy, but at the same time, if it's a situation of that's the only way we can get the funding to do this, we don't have a choice, right? And that's why I'm asking, what are the alternative modes of funding? I would much rather see a search charge that drops off for our citizens than a rate increase that will build not just for now, so we qualify for the debt, but then increase by probably 4% a year for the foreseeable future. Because if you increase it by 25% right now so that we can qualify for state granted debt, that 25% grows exponentially to 4% a year. That's not the 25% increase.

It% turns into Yeah. Um

I mean, Brandon, how realistic do you think it is for us in the next five years to get all these upgrades and remodels done on it? And this is just to bring it into compliance. No, this I mean more than compliance compliance plus capacity for life expect confidence there too that you know um and will these upgrades include stability for if we are hit with the big one? Oh yeah. Any any public project has has some upgrade built into it? They say the ground's going to turn to like sand liquefaction. Okay. Just right. You know, it was the great shake out today.

I mean I mean anything is possible and I think I think we're we're all pretty aggressive and I think we all care about the communities that we serve. I think anything is possible. It's just putting dollars of cents into it and wanting to have difficult conversations internally and externally. But I mean,

well, one thing I love I'm going to speak maybe out of turn. One thing I love about this council that I'm sitting with is we're okay with those tough conversations, or at least I which is which is going to hurt the least um if we continue making the Macwater and Life payment every month and something crashes or or we pay it off and start building the fund to be able to make be

well even if we get the the debt satisfied in two years instead of four years you know like that's why we need to be planning now because we can be taking that step into consideration moving forward it might not make sense to make that huge lump sum by next year we make a bigger lump sum then but here's if you made the if you made the payoff next year year after in the budget you could make the adjustment of more money towards the um water treatment plant

maybe, but we got to remember that service charge that's also helping us pay that down. And so if the reality is we can't really break ground for two year, two or three years, it might make sense to budget this and plan this in a way because that is going to help us financially. It's going to help going away once that debt is set aside.

Correct. But when it comes down to uh the big dollars, as we were talking, it's really not a huge amount of money or what? 300,000. Did you say 300? It's 300,000 on $15 search charge annually. Right. Another 100,000 on five. Right. So that's 400 grand a year.

I'm sorry. Right. 400 grand a year. Right. So 400 grand a year over 10 years is 4 million. Over 20 is 8 million. Okay. over 25 is 10 million. So if you can get this in the lower range that you said 8 to 16 or something like that, 9 to 18, whatever it was, if you get it in the range and you can get a lender other than the state who will do it based on a search charge rather than on asinine rates, then you could actually make this work. If we pay off the Mac water and light debt now and we get that searchcharge in place to take care of the water infrastructure for wastewater over a 20 or 25 year note, we could pay it on that search charge and that search charge could drop off. Now look, 25 years from now, I don't know where I'm going to be. I don't know where you all are going to be, but we may not get the reward of it dropping off. But that also doesn't account for growth. How many meters are going to be added in over time 10 years from now, who knows? Maybe they'll develop across from the new development. I don't I think they have to plan not not to be planning on that.

But but with it just on average things grow year over year, right? There's a reason that every 10ear census of the last four decades Lafayette hasn't lost population and we're grow we're pretty much growing up at this point. We're we're growing up not so much out. So we're losting point. We don't have much growth this way. And even this way, but the fact of the matter is with zero growth over a 20 or 25 years, it covers an 8 to10 million bill on us. With zero growth, all I'm saying is don't sit here and budget like we did with the whole pumps coming in. No. Also, there were some bad deals in there, too. And that's that's a different situation. Not this sure charge like, oh, well, there's also the future like Well,

I want to go off the numbers we have now. Well, but with the numbers we have now at 400 grand a year over 20 years, that's $8 million. That's in the discussion, that's there. That's close. Yeah, I don't I don't disagree with zero growth. Now, the one thing I want to make sure you're all cautious about with search charges are seven years a new council comes on boarded. They get rid of they're not going to be able to pay for that debt. If it's a private if it's a private debt outside of the state, they're not going to be allowed to get rid of it. It would it would be a violation of their lending. Technically, they could, but they're that it would be a violation of your to how they're going to pay that debt.

Yeah. Well, and if you do this with a private bank, the private bank and the lending documents is going to say you cannot get rid of this. So, it's going to be a violation of a contract if they tried to, but there wouldn't be some issue with like policym like a previous policy committing us to 25 years of a search charge with this debt. And then if they say we we don't we we don't want this. We were voted out to We were voted to get rid of this. They were voting voting to be sued by a bank, right? Come up with a way to pay the debt or get sued by a bank. So, as long as there's no like early penalty for payoff, that would probably be fine if they could come up with a way to do it. Yeah. But good luck. I think that works.

No, no. What I'm saying is to those future policy makers, good luck. Yeah. They're not going to be I don't see how they could. And frankly, I don't think anybody at this table would say, "Okay, if it's just 20 bucks a month, and I know that's what it is." I would take that over 4% over if they prefer that over their property taxes going up. Well, in addition to when we also talk about the search charge in addition like we're doing now, we still have the search charge, but we're still increasing our rates because I mean, we would have to get our rates to a point that qualifies. So, whatever that rate growth is, that's going to grow at 4% because of the annual 4%. It's exponential, right? And I think for the most part I think this council is looking to move forward with yearly rate increases, right? I think for the most part like as needed.

Yes. Okay. As needed. Like we don't want to we don't want to end up in a bad situation, but we also don't want to raise it just to raise it. Right. Like like I said, I don't think the city is in the business of profiting off its constituents. it. We we want to provide essential services and and some services that the citizens want, but we don't want to just add to the water rates because we want a little more money in the bank. That's not our job. No, I think what we were saying though to our constituents during 2023 was expect that that the water on the water sewers different. Yes, sewer's different. Sewers differ. No, we have to talk about the sewer. at least well because we knew this wastewater thing was coming up. But when we're talking about alternative solutions to solve it,

you know, we want to we want to be able to pay for what the city needs. The city needs in wastewater treatment, right? That doesn't mean like, hey, we got this taken care of now. We're going to raise rates just so we got a little more money in the coffer. That's not the point. But that's we get the map water and light paid off earlier than anticipated. We're showing them like, hey, we're keeping to our word. That's right. And this drops off. Like, but now we're proposing for this. this is what we do and this is what's going to keep it reasonable. It's not going to have to hit our property taxes and all of that. Well, we're not going to have to increase sewer rates by 25 40% just to qualify for state debt and then we have to pay back with that 25 or 40% which is then just get their property tax.

So, couple things to check out then. uh early pay up if it's is that a uh feasible or are they going to hit us with a uh charge or anything because I think you you said before I think and talk to them. I know you said there is no there's no early payoff. I look at that contract there's I think in fact they might write them a check next year. They they might give you a deal to pay it off early because they might want the cash now for expansion by the water. though they may wanted they may have budgeted their budget want the structure really so we don't know

well we don't know but it's a lot of most private entities you know this is the only public entity that I serve on but most private entities would agree that cash now is worth more cash later so we have to make them an offer that it's Mac all right so we we've kind of hit that nail a lot on the head on waste water and water. What about you know um when we talk essential services where do we see I guess we can start with parks, police, fire like um

things daytoday. I think Ricardo kind of started talking about where let's take care of fiscally responsibly the bases we have now and yet you know over frankly my my thought is until we have a solid plan for good outlook on the water I'm not even going to want to be considering upgrades for parks yeah I other than stuff that comes strictly out of the park SDC. Correct. But even that like you know adding to a park with those SDC's I think we just we got to really know

where we're going with this and so we just need to stay in within the budget for what we have right now at least for the next two to three years for parks. To me the one the idea that was presented was it last month or the month? I don't know theyed for the we talked about the giant flag. Yeah. have that like progress. Yeah. No, I'm agreeing like that is let's do that. Yeah. That that's great. That's a huge improvement, but I don't I know a lot of people wanted to see a whole another park.

Well, like talk about comments. Well, the I'd be more into embracing community members if they wanted to do Yes, it did take a business also, but Will of Mine is Plump Park that also was the community stepping up a little bit too. I'm game for if a community wants to on their own raise funds for a park stuff, cool. I I'll work with them. But I just don't

I want to protect I want to protect our our city both us as an entity and our constituents pockets that we could be having some bills coming. You know, I we're going to work so hard to keep rates where they are through the sewer thing, not just so that we can like raise them with a park fee or something like that's not even in my radar. That's what I'm saying. I just don't see really besides what we're doing right now. I don't see any big changes in the next five years. No. So, so after this done, you don't see any policy growth or policy related to Commons Park being done

with money that we have. What I wish, yes, but I don't see it. I don't see us I think I'm just going to be so fiscally conservative that we know with this waste water. I'm just not I'm not going to be comfortable with it. I'm cool with having it kind of on the radar really. So, we're not going to have more in SDC's. So that really kind of limits our ability. Now, I'm not saying in two to three years we don't kind of redisuss this. Yeah. Do you have any ideas outside of what we've talked about regarding the water treatment plan? Can I add one more thing to the water treatment discussion real quick before you answer that?

Okay. uh if we pay it off and and the the the math water and light debt and Dayton still wants to make a deal instead of just becoming covering costs, it could become revenue. Well, Dayton's pretty much backed out of the inner diet. Everyone's going to want to um I think right now their immediate focus, which we're bringing to council here soon, um is theou on we're we're pretty much completely locked out of the system. We're taking that money and we're putting that towards extra water we're using for Mac water light and we're having a little bit of cushion, right?

Um going back to council carwell. So with this with this regional water plan, they're going to be looking at a lot of assets and the value of those assets and I I even joke with you know Emily the newspaper yesterday when we're at the wastewater plant. I'm all like things going to happen where this system could be taken over by somebody else. Not that I would ever want to see that, but um

privatiz Yeah. Um I've seen that happen to cities before where they couldn't afford things and then a clean water services comes in or another one, hey, well, let's take a customer base, let's take the ownership of the system. I would never want to see that happen. I think I think the immediate thing that I think is in terms of utility, we I would like to see how we can back out of our ownership with the waste with the water plant with Dayton. It's a money pit. It's been a money pit. I mean, I made I made a I made uh a mistake a few days ago when I told you about the $30,000. The $30,000 wasn't for the screens. That was 10,000 to fix the screen. 30,000 was to clean our well that we're we're barely getting the production out of.

So, looking at looking at the um do we we don't even need to rely on Dayton's water. It's our main secondary source according to the state, the wells. Yeah. Well, yeah. our our shared wells with the that's our main secondary source and then our secondary secondary source is going to be Mac 10 online. There's no reason why we can't have Mac 10 as our secondary source. That's what I thought.

Yes. Um but we we still have financial and operational ties to the plant and I think from I think Dayton's goal is to do um an analysis on their water system and their financial their financial outlook because they got that fish and farms property and I think they want to do some stuff there too but looking at what it would cost to just take over our the rest of our system buying those rights and then becoming their like doing their own thing. Um, but how long is Macwater and Light committed to giving us not giving us, but I mean we have as long as we're as long as still wholesaling their water, you know.

Um, but I mean I think that's a big thing that I think especially when it comes to staff just manage having we we're 50/50 in this waste in this water plant and over the past before I came on board there like they pretty much just put SCADA on us. Hey, you're going to have to pay for SCADA. what we didn't budget for this year. We just had it. We just went from one city manager to a new one my first year. And I was like, and that's so that's why I put theou coming in front of you all. No, no major capital, no major capital improvement can get done until it goes to me and council to approve it as part of a budget. And so there was talks about still putting money into the system even if we're not using it.

And I said, I don't want to put nothing into the system because I have a feeling we're not going to be a part of that system in five or 10 years. So I think when we talk when we're talking not just the the wastewater side but I think we need to look at on the water side like look at our main look at our main source of water with the wells and the waterershed ASR injections but then also look at how much more how much better of a provider is Mac water light than our joint system with that yes it costs wholesale but water is already the water's already curated I mean it's it they're employing the team that so in terms of that it's it's caused more of a nuisance since I've been here than it has for us to get out of that system. I'm sorry. I would love for us to get out of that system. Yeah. And I think they would love to too about that for years. And we haven't pulled our share of orders. No,

even before I got here. They didn't want to go in with us on the water tie with McMinnville, but then they try to come in the back door. Yeah. Um we should just get out of it. Yeah. Um would that be a goal? Be my goal. I I feel like that's been my goal for a while. I've been pretty vulnerable on Oh, would would a better goal be refined because they would buy our rights to it, right? There would have to be some type of Yeah. Yeah. Because we own those rights. But when we get rid of those rights, that could hurt. I mean,

I don't think it's going to hurt us with the amount of water that's available at Macwater and Life. But m but I think with the regional system macro water and light if we if there's any type of pro prospect to buy into a regional water system for future that may be a cle that we have that they bring to the table. Actually, I do I do remember that because that was one of the things I know they were trying to use with trying to get those are attractive water rights and Mac can develop those water rights because they have the resources and the time, you know. So, then rather than us selling it, why don't we just have Dayton pay us?

Well, well, right now, right now, we have we have that shared water right. So, I mean, we're doing our 50/50 on that. We have our own water rights for our role wells and they have there for for the joint wells we have shared water right they're going to use like if we're not going to use them and they're going to use them why don't they just pay us to use them well because we're the owner of that permit and then the state because we got the state involved and they said well you're still the owner even if you're not going to use it unless you're fully disconnected from the system you have to own that water right well I understand that if you own it yeah are they they pay us a monthly search charge to use it so over this past year they've been pulling more than their share, right? We've allowed them to have first. Not I mean they've we've only been pulling like I think 30 or 40% of capacity and it's pretty much all gone to them.

That's what I mean. They've pulled they've gotten first pretty much. Yeah. Because of it and we get what's left. So we haven't used it forever. Yeah. So over the last few months, have we been compensated for that? No. Because there's there's nothing memorialized about that. So that's what I'm getting. That's what Yeah. So, we pay X amount a year for something we're not for something that we don't by time they're done with it, there's no water in the bucket. Well, well, the permit's not really. I mean, the permits, I think, a $2,000 over the five years that But I have to get on that to all the, you know, all the upkeep. Well, they're paying all as part of the MOU. They're paying for everything. We're not going to pay a single dime anything.

But that's what's the the thing that's coming, right? Yeah, Q is going to say we're ceasing all dollars and cents into this system for the next couple years until they figure out what they're going to do long for for their water. So, we just need to see that we Okay, I just want to make sure once you see the you'll understand everything pushing our rights to it. Yeah, we're not really cursing our rights to it. They're going to pay for everything. They're paying for maintenance. They're going to mow everything. They're going to pull all the water. the h the hundred something thousand dollars here that we're paying for the system and the debt we're keeping that an hour which is I think accounted for in here. Sorry, I went down a rabbit hill rabbit trail. We can get we can go back to where we were at.

So, um looking at parks, it looks like no major projects until we figure out the water other than the one we've discussed. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty in progress. That's different. Correct. Just put it. All right. What about police fire? I know that's that's been a hot topic. I know there was discussions earlier this year about what are we looking policing. I know we've had conversations. I don't know if this is something longterm or if this something we just say, "Hey, we put on the back burner. We're not worried about it." I just don't see it being able to happen in the next 5 years. I love our sheriffs and our deputies. I love our firefighters, but we spend way too much of our budget.

Way way 67% of So, we get a million dollars a year in property taxes. 67% or 63% is going to fire. It's like 62.7 or something. That's 6210. Yeah. Because councelor Burough and I met Council Burroughs and I met with um um Commissioner Johnson and then um Fire Chief Hec um previous fire chief Terry who's now the fire chief in AMD and um he came out of retirement.

Yeah. and then another um and then um one of the new Carlton Ford fire district members and we're actually going to bring the council um if there's any type of discussion they want to have on fire, but that'll be coming at the next meeting after I do a little bit more research on what that looks like. If I'm looking five years out, I don't I this isn't something I want done in the next five years. Well, I mean five years out would be interesting to start exploring the idea of internalizing the police force. exploring. If it doesn't add up dollars and cents wise, then the exploration will be shortlived. But I I do I love the deputies who serve this, but they're awesome. Yeah. But

they couldn't work for us either, but but we spend a lot of money like like a lot and it look it may not be feasible. It may be something we look at and we say, "Okay, yeah, we can do this if we want one officer to run the whole place, right?" And then it wouldn't be feasible, right? But you know the rates at which this this is increasing annual spend it might make sense to explore it every year. Yeah. Every year that term, right? Yeah. But uh it might make sense to explore it within the next five years. Again, not saying it needs to be like done. But I think also exploring

a feasibility sense in in five years maybe have a feasibility study looking at those but yes does that also kind of mirror a thought process for the fire department like right now we have a like that's a lot of money yeah for fire I think that that I I would like to see that happen too. I think it would be easier to do the fire department than it would be to create

I want both. I just picked one to say all that. So, I'm good with this. I think that the doing the fire department, we have the facility, we have the equipment, we have I think it's to me it seems more feasible to So it sounds like things like the fire department and the police and stuff, the whole point of that isn't that we're not happy with services, it's can we trim our budget with it, which to me falls handinhand on what we first started the conversation of What? How can we keep our budget from growing? Yeah. We're spending a ton of money on this. Yeah. Ton of money.

Which so I feel like everything circles around we got to free up money because of this sewer. I don't Here's I don't even necessarily believe that. Like we do need to find a way to fiscally be able to handle the wastewater treatment situation. I think the concern is over half our property taxes are going to generally don't even are not all inhouse. I think just as a general principle, I prefer not to spend wastefully. And I'm not saying it's wasted. Their services are fantastic. But if we can get a similar quality service for lesser of our constituents money,

then we should like that's our job. We we shouldn't just, hey, this is easy. They put the contract in front of us. Let's just sign it. I know it's more than two. That's not the way we should do things. And I don't think we do it that way. But if there are alternative methods, we shouldn't look at them. If it's the fiscally responsible thing to do, regardless of where those savings go, if it's for waste, if we didn't have a wastewater project right now, I would still be saying this. Oh, yeah. We shouldn't spend money we don't need. Well, that kind of brings up what Brandon was talking about. I mean, you know, most private enterprise does the job better than government. I'm sorry to say that, but So, what about privatizing? Privatizing which court? the water treatment. I thought you were about to tell me police and I was

Yeah, if they prioritize it, then they control the rates, right? They would control be like another PG. You would you would have to have a service providing agreement like we have with Recology where it has to be within a certain profit margin in order for them to raise you. It would have to be such an airtight contract. Yeah. Which then they might not even be interested in. I would How do you do that? Sorry, staff. that I you're going to hurt me if I'm not saying this, but then that reduces staff because then you don't need water. I love our staff, but yeah, I I'm all for essential staff.

I'm not I'm not coming to this table saying, Brandon, how can we randomly cut personnel? But then but when going back to if we privatize it, it's kind of like going back to police and fire. eventually the costs get so and then we can't control it then so it's like you damn it if you damn if you don't you know what we have with the sheriff I think we have a better better idea with like search charge and stuff like that I'd rather pay ourselves

I mean not that if we if we become a city of 25 30,000 and 2100 you know maybe at that time it just just a whole thing of like I I even in in our water in our regional water meeting uh last month I think when mayor was even I even asked Hey, because I think even Mayor Frank and Dayton have been asked the same thing too. What happens if like we just wanted to like get rid of all of our I mean give all of our utility infrastructure to Mac water and light for utilities because of all the anti-PGE sentiment out there locally. I mean that would be a conversation I would be open. Yeah that conversation.

Yeah. I mean it'd be ridiculous. It'd be it'd be expensive but then you would also have to get the buy in from Mac water and light and then having a seat at the table again of not us not having a seat at the table because they need to set rates for us. So we don't have a seat at the table. I know. I know. Way more friendlier than PD. Oh, I know. Very friendly when they came in here the other month. The whole gaz. That's true. I was friendly enough. Maybe we remember. Yeah, I watched the video and I went, "Wow, they just creeped him out." That was Lee being friendly guys until he spoke.

All right. We bought parks, we bought police, we talked utilities. Um, are there any concerns with I mean I know housing we're growing up a lot, but I know there's been talk about, you know, the parking and busing at the seams. Are we worried about some on just how growth is going like I mean there's only so much we can do to statewide to contain growth because I mean we're kind of forced ahead by the state on that is happening a lot. Yeah, I'm not but housing capacity wise I'm not worried about. I think if marketers like if a big developer comes in and wants to buy something that needs to be you know UGB annexed or whatever like that'll work itself out. I don't think we need to go out of our way. They would have just left it at 25 miles an hour.

I think that might be off the top. You got a parking lot. Well, no, but I mean I mean we are going to have a tsp done in 2028 and there's going to be deliverables for the city out of that. I mean that's my point like that. Mhm. But the traffic is an issue. I just don't know how to fix it other than building, like I said, a stupid bridge. You'd split one ways and and that's that's been discussed on what Second Street and Third Street look like compared to Newberg. Um what that looks like. I thought you asked about gross capacity for housing. Well, I did, but I was just there's a switcheroo. In order to have housing capacity, you got to be able to get the cars in and out. I would say this. So yesterday I was coming back from McMinnville

cuz it's not going to keep growing here that much. I was stuck in traffic for 20 minutes coming back from McMinnville at 5 at 550 yesterday. Yeah. And I was just as somebody Yeah. I was like, man, it would really it would it would really be unfortunate if I was traveling not to Portland, but just like as a work in McMinnville stuck at that thing. Yeah. It's like man, but it's like there's only I mean we have a rideway that's only going to go so far. I mean we can only do so much in terms of length of I mean width of a street. to to Kayla's point, that wasn't an issue before they changed the speed limit to 20 miles an hour. It was just not as bad. Yeah, it's got because the problem is is now you have people who do 20 and 25 18.

And so then driver meets behind you. If everybody went 20, then the space between cars wouldn't change. People would be able to turn out someone goes 20 and someone else going 25. There's no Someone's trying to be nice, so they stop to let you through. But you don't know if you're letting me through or not. It's my The point is that's all O do control. That's out of our control. Unless we're going to do turn like Second Street into a oneway, fourth street into a oneway, and then there's you're going to have to work with ODOT on how those merge back into third. That is a massive project we're talking about.

I know. And we have the water treatment issue going on. Every time we have one of these planning sessions, I'm like, somebody's going to bring it up. It's already in the plan, right? And it never comes up ever. What the the split one waves? I don't know if it's in the plan. It's been I mean, it's been talked about, but it's actually formalized in the plan. The state the state may say, "We love this, but we're not paying for it. Good luck. Help. We'll support you." You know, I think there was even talk about cutting it into the right. At one point it goes, "Yeah." Yeah. So at some point it would break apart and then there'd just be Oh, it seems like baby can't do that though because it's not wide enough. It's pretty easy to force maybe.

So like one thing I noticed last year during the tree lighting because we messed up with you know the traffic flow. I didn't realize how many cars come in from Madison and they already turn left onto second to skip Madison and all that. That's what I do. They already do it. Yeah. like second has more traffic than I thought. Livid. So then there was nobody there and I was like, well, I'm going right. Honestly, the best way to go, you get you get to the you get public works, make a left at you make a left right there in front of Robin shop and just take a right there. That'd be nice. I don't want to be that guy, but I think we've gotten a little off. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Um

Okay. Okay. So, we've talked police, we've talked parks, we've talked fire, we've talked um uh well, we go back to housing. So, you me saying about housing. Yeah. I'm just I'm not concerned about the I don't think it's the city's responsibility to be like, "Hey, let's add some space for private developers to purchase and build." Like, if they want the space, they'll come to the city and say, "Hey, we want to get this annex because we want to buy." I think that's the way to approach it. I think proactivity on that is going to bog down the efficiency when we're trying to pay attention to other bigger projects and And frankly,

I think the city is kind of split down the middle on who wants to add room for growth and who doesn't. Well, I think we already the because of the city or the state's rule about a single piece of property that's would be a single dwelling home that they can now put a duplex on that as long as it

we're already going there's already that little bit of wiggle room as I mean I drive through town and there's plenty of properties that need redeveloping because they're inhabitable and so I think there's already a little bit of growth opportunity like you that were building up, not out. I don't think we'll I don't know. It's I mean, there's a lot across the street from my house and I'm I'm bracing myself for if that finally gets bought that a duplex is going to go in there. It sucks because of parking, but still an empty lot right there.

No, it's a hard one to develop on a slope. the slope and there's a the corner with a fire hydrant and I think it's built. Anyway, we're going off tangent, but there's still pockets to when interest rates come down. I'll probably sell probably actually. I bet you that happens pretty soon here. It's what they keep saying. They've trickled down a little bit already. Can I unanex my house? I'm just kidding. In the middle of town. Yeah, but then they're going to have to pay. You're going to have to pay a toll to get to and from your property. You have to be a constituent to be eligible for city council, too. I think so.

Oh, but you could be your own mayor and your own be your own emperor. Why stop in mayor? Build a giant tower. Son, I won't say. Okay. So, Brandon, what do you need from us? Um, I guess I mean going back to downtown, you know, I know council Paul Council Pollson said something, you know, making, you know, downtown, you know, helping out businesses, making more accessible. I think we've thought a little bit about that with helping them with the outdoor. I got some push back on the outdoor charges already, but I said that the board of commissioners celebrated it today. Very impressed.

Um I think we're making a headway in terms of like other business friendly initiatives or or policies. Is there anything that you all think as a council that maybe more, you know? Yeah, I think we should look into businesses that have buildings and they're that aren't operating and they're sitting there vacant for years. Yeah. The vacant buildings. government gets involved and tells them to start using it for commercial purposes or sell it. Do we do that? I'm going to vehemently disagree with that. Private property. I think if you own the property much more something we can Yeah. Well, it's really ridiculous when you have one person who pretty much owns a bunch of them and controls it and we don't have businesses. You have selective enforcement. I don't want to do that. Well, then I say that we start finding them.

Can we talk to them? Can we can we discuss it? Can we add this at the council topic of what our abilities is and our desires is I actually we're not going to be bringing it a business that's using it for something that it's not supposed to be used for like that's a code violation that's fine and I don't know if that is or not but code violation for it to sit there vacant for over a year but yeah I don't just discuss you know that could be yeah can we just I mean that's not a fiveyear plan, but that's just it's not an email that fiveyear plan for me is my that's more immediate smaller like

so here's how well this came up at an LBA meeting um council Paulson and I were talking about there was like is anything going to be done about the vacant buildings and in Kansas we the council had wanted to do a vacant building ordinance program where we were telling owners either put it on for sale or you got to do something with it and it got so hot that it trickled up to the state legisle. This our little ordinance became a topic at the state level first and it wouldn't surprise me if that happened. Yeah. Um and so let me chase I mean if you want me to bring on the next agenda I'll get some more clarity from David and chase down those emails but I can do that something more of a short-term thing and we can at least have a discussion talking about as the government forcing people to sell their own property. Yeah.

No, there's other options. A discussion was what I said. Yeah. I discuss for that verse. Great. It's on the market for $50 million. You can buy it. Well, actually in in Kansas, the way the city attorney and the council had drafted the owners had to be market rate. If there's anything over inflated, yeah, they would Yeah. Okay. So, that let's put let's put that as a conversation whether we move forward anything or not. I think there's that could also lead into a conversation of vitality of downtown. Like if we can't go if we can't do anything from growth and so if we can't do anything then what what else can we do if we we I'm literally aware of the fact that people have literally gone to

understood try try to lease and rent these places but the owner it's theirs right like and here's the other thing I think we need to recognize that there are a couple of institutions in downtown that have done a great job with their buildings and there are new businesses that have moved in and they're doing a fantastic job of making those buildings look doing great. Great. By the way, our new people right here. Yeah. No, I bakery's doing great with their aesthetics. The Aostasto their rehab. Honestly, the last three years, we've probably seen the best improvements downtown that we've seen in decades. Like things are on the right track. I don't think with things moving in that direction, the government has any business telling people what to do with their building. That's crazy.

Okay, so put it on as a discussion and if we decide that we have no right to say anything, then what do we want to do instead? the government can control what certain buildings go in certain places or we could always put a a I mean one one thing that we really haven't talked about is you know I know we're not the you are not we're not in the capacity of the urban renewal agency board right now but I mean we're year four about to be year five of the URRA and it was all contingent on that piece of great property right there.

Yes. I had a conversation with councelor Gilgan. I won't den that conversation because I don't want to bring another whole rabbit hole for 30 minutes up. But um that's directed if you No, no, no, no, no. I mean I mean I mean I'll be candid. I asked like what would it be like if we partnered with the developer to maybe purchase that property or with the state? But that but then that comes into like wanting to create debt to buy something to stimulate the economy and that's not something and then obviously what happened in McMinnville with the uh the old mill and how that didn't turn out too well but I just you know I I but they don't even want to sell that property. Well, they do but it's an extortant amount of money. Yeah. But that's I mean so to me they don't want to sell it.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to pay I just think that there's a different opinion evaluation. Yeah. He was with the 100year flood plane thing now they still have that those thoughts what so UGB not UGB UR or you whatever it is the urban renewal district how does that impact our our next five years if it's it's not kicking off it's not

I mean when you when you get to the last two years of the 10ear plan you look at it and say okay we have I don't know I'm going to throw about that. I don't have it on for me. I'm just throw number. $750,000. All right. Well, we have $750,000 to do some street street improvements, sidewalk enhancements, plant some trees, signage, lights. Cool. There's that's that's what we're able to accomplish in 10 years of this URD. So the year ID is only good for 10 years and whatever we Well, the initial the initial discussion was let's take a look at this in in 10 year increments because all the financial planning went out 10 years and then he had additional like we're kind of building the K the you have to renew it. I think 10 I think this one has to be renewed every 10 years at this point.

Yeah. So I so something to think about as well. I mean, obviously not tonight, but you know, how that downtown, you know, what downtown can look like. Um, uh, so we touched the base on that. Um, signage 99, utilities, um, roads. Roads. I know. I know. That's another good one. Streets. I mean, well, we talked about next year, that one big project over here,

but yeah, outside of that, what do we I mean, we'll have we'll have we'll have that money spent and we'll continue to get money yearly or do we want to focus on Canyon Road or Canyon View the other one that has some issues that we

Yeah, bring that. But I'm just talking about like in as as as the staff starts looking at how we how we approach street projects is the council okay just staff brings what we feel and what we look to have the the the is the biggest issues or are you want to focus more on residential I mean I mean we we we've been we've been detering to Gordon for the most part outside of bridge because that's been here since I got in the board but you know obviously you know we we did Monroe And then we're doing Madison. We're looking at some, you know, market and and all these other things. I just don't know if we're looking at we want to focus on the residential area more. We want to focus on those ancillary projects are on downtown and the connector streets. We want to I mean,

well, we have the TSP coming that will give us some of the fine tuning things. My thought, my focus is the infrastructure aspect, not even the usability, but like like it's not that I don't care where a stop sign goes or doesn't go. It's the maintenance of it. I don't What is it going to take for us as a council when we're done and I know some are done before others are to hand off our main roads in better shape than we inherited bridge like we already did

really I think. Yeah. With the plan staff should just keep coming to us. you guys have been I I see some better off 99 parking and I don't know how how the city would be involved with that. I think that that would that would enhance somebody visiting a business here if they had a good place to park. Is there a way to turn the at least part of the park over here into a parking lot? What part of the commons? one where there's a the baseball field that they common.

I mean, yeah. I mean, it's kind of like the fire one across from the fire the fire department. I was asking one of the volunteers cuz somebody came up to me and they're like, "Hey, we have some uh EV charger money." And I did EV charger stuff in previous organizations. And I was like, "Oh, cool. It'd be great to put two EV chargers right across from the fire." And I was like, "Well, how often does you know does that fill up?" said, "Oh, well, when we have trainings and when we have major catastrophes when everybody has to roll out." Um, but that just got the idea of like downtown parking because especially now with, you know, with with the growth of downtown and like I know like Aman's talking about putting eight or nine different tables and chairs out in front of the rideway, but then you take away a park when to do that, you know.

Well, I think she's asking us to add park space. I mean I mean that is a struggle walking downtown always been the one spot that I thought that we had for available for to turn into parkings especially since it's like three blocks from another park park that we lacks parking iron I think that to excavate Terry to make into parking would be way yeah but that's a longer walk but this is right here but it's supposed to provide parking if only we were in a church that has so much parking so jealous of their parking lots Um I mean there's that property right behind us this way. I mean sorry. Um camp.

No. No. So where they were staging all the the work for like the 99 a couple years back right here behind us. Um on was that across from uh where pre what is that? Adams. Adams and pivot right here. Yeah. Isn't that right where they wanted to put that? I'm pretty sure. I know. Okay. So, yeah, I mean that that's a lot. Finding parking, finding parking for downtown and what we can do to encourage or what we're allowed to do for these businesses. To me, that's all one big topic of the vitality of downtown.

Yeah. I don't think I think that if people can stop and park and park looking at it over here, right? I'm not too into oh well LDA itself is gonna grow down. I feel like we've ro that road and they haven't and we as a town within without infringing on rights or whatever this whole section is what can we do like I know what we Jefferson that I don't think it's our job 42 Jefferson I agree but I don't think um the vault is going to buy an empty lot to make

no here's I think parking is one thing but I don't think it's our job to like try to boost business private survive the the usability of what we have. We're looking at building up downtown. Sure. The idea has always been, could that be a parking? I like the idea of parking next the in the the park by the community center because that also adds parking for the park that's riverfront and has no parking. Yeah. You know, it's two blocks away, right? Like and on that side of 99, it serves a city purpose. Is it going to benefit local businesses? Sure. But like it's also going, you know, like if we if this town ever wanted to do like a concert series in the summer at that park, there's nowhere for Fields of Park right now.

And half of that park is still a big park, right? Yeah. And all the field shows. Uh Jim Jax brought up the u the west end of that park, that partial street was uh city-owned. Um, is there is there a way to create some parking there that without um interfering with the private homes that go over there? Okay. So, because it goes nowhere. So, I guess the topic would be looking into where parking could happen. Even thinking outside the box,

it'd be ideal if we didn't have to go spend money to acquire land. That's why park it would be a great and I'm not saying the whole park has to be turned into it. No. Yeah, because the other half can be used for the food trucks. I'm just I'm just waiting for us to get a dang food truck here. Some tacos. Hey, knock this place down. We put the new city hall next to the community center. Yeah. Parking right smack in the middle of downtown 99. I want to know where where my statue is going in all this. 30 foot statue.

No, just life size. Okay. So, parking and downtown, especially with the walking and we have we have good amount of sidewalks downtown. Does that baseball diamond ever get used? Sorry. I hear it does, but I've never never seen anybody. It's not regulation size, so you're not going to, from my understanding, you're not going to get like park and wreck from Mac bringing, you know. I think I I would like to see us do the the pavilion. I think it's used more for harvest uh harvest festival, for Saturday market, for whatever. You get a pavilion down there with some basketball,

but you need parking for stuff like that. So, I don't get that. Okay. That's why the other end of it over there on the had to be a whole another work session during a meeting of it doesn't look as big actually on the map but what the park com commons it's because there's green space behind it all that uh that buds up to the river it's all it's not developed behind it so at least in my mind so when you're looking at the park it's not like there's buildings right there oh right I I Oh, we can put a parking lot across the street from my house. Brandon, does that bar connect to Terry? No. No. Close to it, but it's super.

Yeah, there's a railroad track in between the two, isn't there? I'm not going to say that. It's too bad that section for the urban growth boundary didn't get go through that part right there. That's a nice giant section of town. Could be. What do you see, Lee? A lot of numbers. Are they dollar signs? Are they housing? Numbers. Address is number. Yes. Interesting. Okay.

What is this here? Right across from the What is all this? That is um just great. It's natural, but I think it's owned by I think it it's owned by No, I think there's a resident. I think some It's not a lot. Okay, Brandon. The railroad has between the park and the river. Who owns that? There's not a lot. Was that railroad? Oh, we do. We own that. I think we had before I got here, there was a land swap with council and the city with one of the land owners because I know some of that abuts the the railroad. But yeah, no, we we have rightway right there from what from what I've been told. But it's in the flood zone, isn't it?

Yeah, but you can build a parking lot. You could put a parking there. Yeah, I was thinking more of turning the existing baseball diamond into a parking lot. You'd have to do some kind of land bridge or tunnel to walk through the rail rightway to get to this other section. But I've seen a permit though get done. Build a job. I've seen a permit get done for lower though to build a trail. It hasn't. We're not going to talk about trails and rails, but I've seen it. Yeah, but I don't I don't know what the topography is down here at first. That's probably the one place of town I have yet to step foot in just because of the accessibility. It's not possible. Maybe it's true. Yeah, I have a question. Not right now.

We go surprise planning commission on the window. No, Brandon, I'd be interested in what is that like I would lot number. There's no number on it. I would be interested in learning more about that property. I didn't realize we owned it. I I think we own it. I've been told we got I'm going to verify it back to the possession a meeting and tell us who owns it and that sliver right the orange on on the paper lot right there. Right. Yeah. If we own it, is there a way to It's Yeah,

that's pretty big section. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I remember there was a I remember there was a like a code complaint with like the Union Pacific and like some dumping, but then Robert and Greg were like, "No, we had to go clean up because that was ours." So, let me double check and I'll I'll come back with you stuff you're talking about. And I just remember like part of the issue was with the fact that the the railroad have something or owned something with it like Yeah. Um Yeah, that would be interesting. Yeah, I was told that the I like maybe had the president acquired with the council like years ago like something like that but yeah let me something very vaguely I'm remembering yeah there is

something but I didn't know which direction that was going so I think I think because zoom is such a big thing that's our you know until we get that squared away pass well we're going to kind of roll on to something house maybe. Uh what's happening with the sidewalks and curb repairs? Oh, for in front of people's houses. Yes. I'm waiting on So once we get done with the RV and some of the front yard parking stuff that's been taking the plate, um we're going to probably be working on that. Okay. So I'm I'm not trying to do everything all I'm trying to just focus on that because I will tell you the past three months have been very stressful

um regarding a lot of the driveway and the RV and the parking stuff. And so I the budget coming. I'm sorry. Only going to get worse with the budget coming. I know. Your stressful time of year is coming. The budget's okay. It's It's not once we get our hands on it after, right? Um Yeah. I think what you're hitting at was kind of when I was saying I want to see us fine-tuning what we already got. You know, I got I do. Look at you. Now you're gonna have to screenshot that submit it for public record.

Before I forget that I got to finetune on on the sidewalk those repairs rather than giving people six bags of concrete in their Mini Cooper or whatever they bring to pick it up and us carrying this stuff around. I'd rather for a project that may be done or may not be done, maybe not correctly or not. I'd rather see us uh give a financial aid to once the project is completed, you turn in the plans just like you have planned, but once projects completed $100 check for financial aid. I don't think we approved the Yeah, there was it was just going for said

I know it was just a thought, but I put thought also. I had I had a thought and I just want to make sure I wasn't mistaken. No, it hasn't hasn't moved forward, but I'm I was just thinking more about, you know, we give out uh this concrete, like I said, the project may be done, may not be done, may be done correctly. I'd rather see the the if we approve something to to come about once the project is completed and approved a rebate or something a rebate financial aid how whatever you want to call it if scholarship oh I see yeah

scholarship whatever and for a you know we talked about a limited period of time two years or 18 months or whatever get this done and So, Brandon, is there any big projects or anything that you're not thinking that you're thinking that we're not thinking of in the next 5 years that you think should be on our radar or that's important to you? Um, besides a city hall, Brandon, that's not No, I mean, honestly, I mean, it sounds new, but I know there was some issues before I got here, but the um I I know I'll probably never see a city hall in my time here as a city manager, but I do think we need to do something about this sign outside. staff. I mean, like it looks like I'd rather tear it down than it stay.

Yeah, it looks bad. It's honestly the staff that comes tear it down and you sit and you got to do two hours to sit there and do this. Do you want the the monument on the ground? That's like the electric. I I would love something that's going to take us two minutes to type something up this weekend. thing council like and I know I wasn't here but I know there was I know there was a certain you know and I don't know there was a I think you were may have been on the planning commission at the time and I think there was some narrative about digital signage in town and yes the proposed plan violated our own codes yes was it I wasn't here for that I try not to look back a lot of the history but was it revising the plan for the city just to put something there or was it like not inclusive for the whole city it was like the footage of the sign or something

and they want they wanted to put a digital sign up, but uh yeah, it would have violated our own code the way they were doing it. And they were trying to do it that way to save money, but it would have violated our own code. So, does a is it a rolling digital sign that violates the code or just a It was just uh because of the It was something in the Give me It's been 10 years. Give me that. 2015, 2016, right? I was on the planning commission and it was uh it had something to do with they said they're not changing out this sign so it's the same sign so therefore I think it had to do with like the length of the someone was upset about the pool being ugly with a big new beautiful sign

it was going to be the size it was going to it was the height the height of the pole was the problem but I think the city admin at the time was trying to say well it's the same size like well if you take down the whole sign and put up a digital is not the same. Yeah. But then later after that we were looking because this was a big thing Maurice Sprout was pushing for. Um she it was ones that it's like the one inund. Yeah. And it's electric and I thought we were looking at like 30 or 35,000.

That's that's probably low now. Just I'm currently replacing that before. But if that's something, you know, with the budget coming up, maybe that's something that we look at, see if we can I I would like that because we we have so much going on now and it's more modern. And honestly, like the first thing you see passing city hall, you see that sign the sign go away than what it looks like. I I just No one No one I love that you're updating it and you're trying to put stuff on there, but like I I know what it means. Yeah. But 12 16 or whatever council. Yeah. No one knows what that mean. I know. And we have we don't we don't have like

And so what were you saying about people driving in? No. They drive in like that's one of the first things they see like it's a beat up old Wendy's sign when even Wendy's has gone digital with their hey 99 cent you know 99 cents anymore but the chicken nuggets you know like it'd be cool just like I know I mean we're doing what we can to the community center and city hall with what we got because just of limitations financially and space but I think that would really fresh up downtown if we can do something with a sign that says mark you know we got a little pumpkin marketfest this weekend or city council this weekend or like it just feels that like

so with coming up for again the new budget the next budget maybe if you have time or staff look into it and then put it on the budget as a possible project first of all nobody reads the sign with that voice in their head that's way too exciting for a council second I also pull over my I'm literally in the midst I met with a sign company I'm in the midst replacing a sign very similar to that. I would try to get as many bids as possible because the ranges are all over the but it should be electric. I totally agree with you. Electronic

maybe whatever like to have a little sponsor. I think I I I mean that I think that would go I think that would it make staff very happy too because I mean I have to pull public works out there and they're out there sitting here for an hour spelling sees Brandon or it's black and red and it's all like and they're out there sitting there it's cold out I've seen them do that and I'm just like it would certainly on the cost I don't think so let's have a conversation about fine. Keep it, replace it, toss it.

Honestly, I that would be something I'd like to see done within a year. I'm glad Brandon brought that up because that was a big thing that we were trying to do with the council before and yeah, there was just a lot of hiccups we ran into. Let's just not violate our own codes. True. Or just for us if it's beneficial to that worked out that the time that this was I think this was a few years before