City Council - Regular Meeting

All right. 4:00 show on the road. Let's see who Spencer. City manager. Spencer. Oh, that's right. He's He's This is the second time he's been He's going to be real tardy this time because he's out of the state. Oh, well, we're going to do it. Sort of on vacation slashworking, but um I vacation.

Yeah. Okay. Um I sent out um the recap and I don't really have a specific uh order to go here. I just thought if uh unless somebody had any other ideas, we could, you know, we had a big discussion about, you know, trying to keep the fines lower the first go around and then make them go higher. So, I thought I'd give you all a copy of what Canon Beach has um which is really stringent because they don't allow fireworks at all. And so even something like I'm guessing those little things you throw down on the ground, they go pop probably cost you a $100 and

or a sparkler. Well, sparklers are a thousand. Yeah. So, we need to, you know, suggest something else to the council. I think we're at this point not looking at getting uh down to that level. Uh these are ones that uh we're focusing on the beach and in the city itself the illegal ones. So I'll leave it open from there.

I do like the level you know and I do like at the end where it says uh enhancing the fines you can not ex you know you can enhance at one level or whatever. I I like that idea. Um and level one. Uh well, didn't you all say that last week of warning happens first? Not necessarily. Not necessarily.

No. No. It just case by case. It's like discretion, right? So, if you have um like the case I used is somebody saw the sign on the the sidewalk or the oh my goodness. And they turn around and say, "Hey, I have these. I didn't realize they were illegal." And they hand them. I'm not we don't write them a ticket. who just sees their fireworks and um but people who are and then all the way to the other extreme if somebody's you know for instance one year I had someone who's taking throwing mortars into the like walking by someone's campfire as the family's around throw a mortar in there and boom it explode in their I I arrested them for the crime of it because that's reckless danger possession of fire so there's those extremes right

so yeah so uh the first level you know is that first offense of actually going to write a ticket the warning is just kind of the discretion of the those scenarios that you have someone who oh here please take these I didn't know or you know eliminating it before it gets to the beach hey this is your one chance to get rid of them great here you go give them a warning at that point so well I like the idea of a buildup or whatever

but pretty much always um we try to allow our police to have the discretion to decide where you start or what to do because they're on on scene right they're there. They're in the moment. Uh the rest of us aren't. And uh I feel uh based particularly on how much training and expertise they have to put into this job, they are a lot better at it than I am trying to just say on an ordinance. You know, it's this this and this period. Absolutely.

And I think the the I think the goal is obviously changing behavior, right? So, um, and that's how we look at everything we do, whether it be education, enforcement. So, um, obviously people know, most people know it's illegal. So, that first level offense, you know, the fine, whatever it is, the other key is making sure it's enforced. Like we find them $700, they should pay the $700, right? They that's the other caveat to it. So, we can make it whatever we want, but if if if it gets lowered extensively, it doesn't change the behavior. So that's why whether it be a that first offense at a thou 700 where the ordinance is now or it go to thousand and then you know if they have a second offense or if it's egregious like just going create then the 5,000. So I could see that as that scale with set guidelines you know whatever we determine those to be. So,

and we've mentioned before that we can, you know, we can do something here and recommend the council do something, but in the uh end it's up to the judge. Um, and we will look at outside of this meeting what the rules are and if there's some way to be closer to enforcing that. the uh council is also uh most most of the people on the council have never even met the judge. So, we're going to just have a sit down talk session and this will probably be something we'll bring up, although it might be a little more generic than just specifically fireworks. Well, and I think the plan that everybody brought up I thought was great to have that marketing campaign of education will help build that foundation so the judge is like, "Hey, we've done this, we've done that." So, she's reasonable like she Okay, there to say you didn't know there it's not reasonable, right? So, here you go. So, it's easier, I think, for someone to actually enforce that uh fine when they realize, hey, we've done everything in our power to educate you. you came to Seaside, there was billboards, we had signs on the prom, we have information we hand out, people say you can't have those. It's easier to write those tickets and then enforce them when you're like, there's no way you can say I didn't know. So, you know, I'm curious how you would approach uh and I'm going to pull an example from last year and I believe the year before as well, people throwing lit fireworks from their moving vehicle.

Yeah. So, When it comes to severity, how would you look at that? And if they're throwing them at people from their lit, I'd arrest them. Well, I don't know if they're throwing from at people. Oh, what I do know is there were enough of a firework to scorch the ground, right? To block my apartment. So, if uh if they're throwing it from their vehicle and we're able to determine, that's the hard part too though, sir, is we determine who threw it, of course. Right. So, um, having that witness that's willing to say that person threw it, this is what they and pick them out, then we, you know, and we would take the appropriate action at least minimum is find them. If not, if it was like caused, you know, damage or anything like that, that would be one that I would think and I'm going to speak what I would do.

Of course, I would arrest them because they've now created this property damage or endangered people. Uh, if it's if we can prove who it is, and that's the hard part. Sure. Is getting someone to say that person through it. They I I'll give a vehicle description and then there'll be four people in it. It's tough to prove who did it. So at that time you're gonna who's responsible for the fireworks? I'm gonna write them a ticket. I can't prove the reckless part of it, but I can at least maybe prove who had the fireworks. So yeah, we've had people throw fireworks um at us from the Windham building onto into volleyball into the volleyball setup. So I mean in my But again, what are you going to do? you ga knock on every room until you find the one like right

actually we've had that in my experience I'll speak from is security's great about that if we can see the balcony they're coming from with the map will tell them this is they actually kick them out so they've been great at that so if you do see that and we're able usually it's we have to see them do it and then I'll be like hey it was this third room in up they're like yep this room they kick them out so you know it's super late when just my three security guys are on you know so we've In the past, I've had very good luck with them taking uh people holding people responsible for what their actions. Now, do we get to charge them because I couldn't see who did it? No. But they're inconvenienced. So,

and then can you I know that we probably have gone over and over this. Um but where is it that that our police force can enforce versus the state parks? Where is like are we allowed to enforce the entire beach? Yes, we are. Yeah, we have a aou memorandum of understanding that gives us the authority to in seaside to uh enforce the beach rules uh from the state parks. It's a second set of tools secondary in nature but it's available. I think the only thing Justin said is that we can't search with the event permit kind of umbrella we were talking about. Yeah, we can't search. So,

um I have a question. I'm I'm not really The judge has come up. The judge has come up several times. Here come the judge. And uh I understand that the bench has the prerogative to regulate the fine as she sees fit. she in this particular but do we have any idea how she I don't know how to say this how she feels about illegal fireworks or how she views them? Um does anybody

that's that's what I was saying is you know I think maybe maybe two of us on the council even know who she is. Uh we were here when we actually appointed her. She actually is appointed by the city council. Uhu one of the few um employees if you want to call it that uh that the council appoints in addition to the city manager as well as um quote unquote the city attorney. Now we actually have a firm that does it as opposed to one person. So, those are are people that the council needs to to worry, but they've never

um Well, we had, you know, three brand new counselors the beginning of this year, and we appointed the judge three years ago, I think. Oh, okay. I thought she was I thought she was new. Does she have So, that will be something the council will, you know, just as explore. Yeah. Okay. Does she have get to know her better because does she have a term limit? No, it's a contract that basically just keeps going until we say no or she says no. So, okay.

So, I I just leave it at that. I mean, that's an avenue that we're going to explore, but it won't be specifically about fireworks. No, I just appreciate the fact that she seems a little bit like a unknown and that is well not an unknown but you want your judge to have the kind of separate authority, right? Because you know it's it's like I hate to use as an example anymore three parts of government. Yeah. you know, judicial and executive and the representation part, right? Um, I guess it's just

I don't want to go down. Let me get the point across. Hey, judge, you know that. So, you know, and we're a small city, obviously, so we can't have a full-time judge. And, uh, you know, that's why most people probably don't know who she is. Does she live here? Uh, I'm not even sure where she lives, but she's not judge. I think she's judged for more than one city, too. Oh, okay. So, she's on task. So, she probably has run into fireworks if she's judge for city on the coast. I don't know. That's something we'll I was just curious because does she have a name?

Yes, you would ask that. Judge Judy. Stacy Rodriguez. Rodriguez. Yes. There we go. Thank you. I think the uh I think probably boils down she's actually super reasonable and she like-minded when she understands the importance of the quality of life and how the citizens feel about I think she'll she understands that enforcement what's the goal and the purpose of it. Uh that's a conversation I think will help with the actual this is why we're doing it. This is what we're looking for. Um and then she still has her discretion of course if she she gets to make a decision based on what she feels will one get the point across and benefit the the public and the the person. So

yeah, I I was just asking because I she was like a factor that I have no idea. Well, part of the ultimate goal, right? So that the end of the actual process. So super sure. Thank you. Do we feel that the public has been adequately pulled on their opinion on this aspect of the fireworks? Which aspect? the uh enforcing illegal uh fireworks, having that be uh our task

or something that we should put money in. people that have responded publicly or privately, I would say yes. Most people are concerned about the illegal fireworks, not the public one, you know, the public show or not legal ones. Legal ones people are fine with. It's the only that's the issue. Yeah. Like, you know, sparklers and stuff. Canon Beach one number one or two are just out there. Those are all legal. Yeah, the illegal activity,

but I mean the the uh poll that was just recently put out about u tourism and the public sentiment about tourism, it was favorable for fireworks overall generally, right? Yeah. And it was general. It didn't have anything to do with legal illegal or otherwise, right? It was it was What was it stated in the survey? Do you like fireworks? Do you not like Was illegal in there? I you know I think it was a scale. I think the focus though was on the public side of it which would be our show. Maybe not.

And whether you know whether we uh want to go down that route to see um obviously this once we do something and you know the council's been kept aware of what we're working on here so it's not a surprise. We will hold public hearings at the council level and that's you know we'll give plenty of time for people to weigh in. Um but it still boils down to the illegal ones are illegal. They are and that's a pretty easy choice. I think

I think a lot of it happens in the question if you include in it. You know how do you feel about fireworks? That's a whole different question than how do you feel about illegal fireworks. say most of most of what I've heard from people has been more about how long they're being fired off, which is not to say during the show itself, but into the weeks and months after the July 4th event that before or indeed or that people are having issues with rather than so much the show itself. I just don't I don't know if we feel like we have a a wide enough swath of survey to see how people are feel. Again, essentially, you know, we're having to put money and energy into the enforcement of it.

It's illegal. The state says so, right? And so, we already have enforcement put into place. And so it's do we want the taxpayers dollars to pay for additional enforcement? Um and and what's the sentiment on that for illegal activity? I would say yes. If it makes enforcement easier or more effective effective I I would say that that's generally going to be more supported than withdrawing or saying, "Hey, this is too big of a problem. We're not going to address it at all. I mean, it seems like it would be more like status quo war status war. But I mean,

status quo though has been insufficient, which is why we're at this point. I would think that if you asked people about fireworks, they if they didn't have a dog that gets hysterical, they don't live here. if they don't live around in a neighborhood where people blow off fireworks and or a veteran they're living with a veteran that has PTSD that they would think fireworks are just great because they'd be thinking at the show and so it's you really have to ask the question

and u I mean it's just so many people are in do not understand the the ramifications for some in some situations for fireworks I agree. Can I ask a question? We were I think it was I don't I think it was Spencer that was going to uh and it's mentioned in the minutes about going to um a professional person to do some uh education and wait

that will be one of our recommendations. Yeah. So is there anything done about that? That would just assuming that it would be a recommendation. Okay. Part of the issues we have an awful lot of things going on right now beginning with the weather. So, our staff is uh pretty overwhelmed. So, we're just uh trying to do the best we can to make sure this doesn't go away and it will boil to the top of the list pretty soon.

Staff has swapped. You said it. put on the notes where in order to get the education out in time to be effective or the advertising campaign or whatever you want to call it that it needs to go and be voted on by by the council by I think it was said in it March or April and that was mostly about the ordinance itself the ordinance

trying to get it in place. Um it takes well this one will certainly take at least three meetings. Uh we have separate readings for an ordinance and this one will definitely be one that needs to go all three. So that's six weeks worth and you want to try to get in place let's say before somewhere around March that'll be three months ahead. So,

the piece about the education, um, you know, I I don't know for sure where it's at. Spencer would be the one to answer that better, but they've had discussions with the tourism director. And that's where this will come from. And they've got these the uh the knowhow and the people they can contact to set that up and figure out how to do it more light-hearted, but you know, there's there's something behind it, too.

So, does it does that does does the ordinance have to be approved or adopted before No. working on the campaign. No, the campaign they can both go together. Okay. Unless the messaging has a dollar sign in it. Yeah. The ordinance would have to be approved before the fines can be could be levied. But um the PR campaign came campaign could go and say this is coming. Okay. But we're not going to stop everything the first year.

No no PR camp, you know, even if we get 3% the first year, it'll send a message for the years ahead. Exactly. I just want to make sure that we get it out there in time to be somewhat effective the first year, but we don't want to say come to Seaside and the $5,000 fine to if you light up your fireworks, you get a $5,000 fine. I mean, you can't say that until that's put into place. I would say you could get a $5,000 fine, but I wouldn't start with a $5,000 fine. It's like

first offense not not as much as the second or third offense and I assume that you can track that. There's just a lot of pieces to this, isn't there? Yep. Welcome to city government with that on a first offense. I do like the idea of enhancements for behavior or multiple or you know so certain I like the range. Yeah. And defined on what you had explained, you know, it's like are they just lighting off a single? Are they endangering other people? Are they in close proximity? You know, does it affect property? You know, like fire season. Yeah. I mean, I really like the fire thing. I love that.

I I I like the range of saying here's the minimum, here's the maximum. The officers take in account what's going on as they see it and and make an educated decision. Yeah, I agree. So, who's going to set up these levels having these meetings? We would be the ones that make the recommendation. Okay. So, and then the council would vote on the council will decide and but the recommendation comes from us for the level. That's why we're here. Yes. Yeah. Looking at these levels, it seems like the only ones that would really fall into what we're trying to work with

is just the level three. So, if we're going to do levels, it would be more about from understanding first defense or or you know no enhancements versus second or third and and you know this is just canon beaches so right we need to think about it ourselves and figure out okay what would be more specific to seaside but this is a good place to start at least it gives us a springboard

and I I don't expect you to come up with it all right now on a late on a Monday afternoon Uh part of the deal is in my meetings here I set up on the third Monday, but in January and February the third Mondays are city holidays. So I don't really want to pull in our staff and make them I'm assuming it's a state holiday too. So um part of I think of this will be uh probably January. Just do your homework. Uh come up with ideas. tell me what you think this ought to be and then I'll submit that and and put or put it back out to all of us. We'll probably have to try to find a different day in February to meet to make sure uh maybe late January uh to do it that way. Um, and it may be just u, you know, depending what we come up with, maybe something that um, I create something that says, "Okay, here, city council, here's what we want to present to you."

Um, so our homework is to play with this and come up homework is to play with this. Yeah. And see, you know, if we can come up with three levels or, you know, first defense, second offense type thing. Yeah. Um something in there uh you know like I said somebody else said too the enhancement part of it you know one would certainly be danger to people or or pets or u beyond just the uh fire season. It's almost always fire season when these are going off. So, it seems like fire season's getting longer and longer.

It is. Shouldn't it just go off like middle of October? End of October. Yes. When the rains came. Yeah. Would you feel comfortable then if we had something to go to the council roughly by February? Well, I'd say meeting, right? or late January if I can figure out a time that works for everybody. All right. I mean, I think we need to have a date in mind. I'll talk to Spencer, too. He gets back, see what fits into staff schedule.

Yeah. Would it be different levels based on the location? So, if they light it off in the dune, if they light it off within 30 yards of another person, if they light it off within 30 yards of u structures, something like that. I think no I I no I think if if recklessly I think we'll encompass and that will be that determination whether it's it so close to a person it blows up or I don't I don't think we can you don't want to get that to oh if it's because then you have to create like the firework free zone or like like we do a drug free zone downtown we have a special enhance you know just for that for um so I think I think that might just get too much in the weeds to do that um just make one blanket whether because it's not I mean it's on the beach. Yeah, we got dong grass. Well, it's up in the neighborhoods. Yeah, you got homes and forest. So, I think it's either way it's be a bad scenario. I think the enhancement of like the fire season is a big one. um because it's all combustible there. But I don't think put certain locations or within people or I think we just add that engaging recklessly or however you want to put it

because it they go off, you know, not just the beach but neighborhoods and you know what about the the idea of somebody coming along and throwing it in your beach fire pit? Those are those cases where you're going to charge them with reckless endangering other people and take them to jail. leave that out of this because that is already something big trouble with. Would the fact that there's another charge going with it be an enhancement? Um, not likely because the charge of that I understand where you're going, but the reckless and danger would go up to the circuit court level. These ordinances are going to stay municipal court level. So, we would just keep it one case clean and we wouldn't put, you know, our charge. are much more familiar with the circuit than

because there's more teeth there too, right? So, uh we're not going to charge them there and then also site them out of here to make them go to two different court dates because we also have to not inconvenience them too much so we keep in one area. So, so that's a whole different level then. Yes, ma'am. And that be the assumption too, correct LT, that if uh you know OSP site people or the sheriffs, they're going to go to their default court. So not all will come through the city. Uh and our citations generally are cited into circuit court. Yes. And so if they those additional tools are used, right?

You're absolutely correct. He brings some good points. So like when so I've requested OSP to come again and help us, but they're they won't enforce ordinances. if they find something that we want to enforce an ordinance, they may call us over there for us to site them. But like state parks has their own rules. OSP works under the the Oregon provised statutes and then like if Canon Beach came up to help us, they aren't going to write for our city ordinance, but we can. So, does that make sense? Your perfect point, Justin. So yeah,

the always look I this is me and I'm going to speak for myself because I know what I do. You always look for what's the most serious part of the offense. What what Right. And that's where No, that's where we're going to go because you know if you acted in that manner, I I'm not going to give you a break because that's you put people in danger, right? you know, so yeah, using that that uh if it's if they're being used maliciously that that malicious factor could be used as an enhancement. Corre Well, if it's maliciously, then I'm just going to go to the criminal offense,

right? I'm not going to even I'm not even going to worry about the ordinance because if you're doing maliciously, you're intentionally recklessly endangering others or enga then I'm just going to go end of it because it's not that's that's a whole different ball game. That's the most serious. Absolutely. Because you're not just enjoying the firework, right? And breaking that law. You're you're acting in a manner that's whether that's intimidation or harassment or else. Are you seeing that a lot annually?

Uh no. No. You might get one or two every once in a while. The one the incense was five years ago when I saw them throwing it into the fire pits and we finally chasing them and catching them. Um, and then I once saw we saw a group that was setting them off in the in a parking lot, but they were it was it was insane and it actually caused damage to vehicles because it was so and we end up chasing them and catching them. So, those only two scenarios in my head that I remember being involved with. It's not as common, but when it is, it's absolutely enforced. I mean, that's there's no question about that. So, I'm thinking times with like uh I know some veterans in town will put signs in their windows or out on their yard saying, "Hey, veteran lives here, please be respectful. Take your fireworks somewhere else. And seeing people see that and then set off the fireworks in their yard or in the street out in front of their house or, you know, their parking lot, what have you,

which would be malicious, but not necessarily rise to, you know, I'm trying to cause harm so much as I'm harassing or intimidating. Yeah. I mean, it's another scenario. It'll take some investigative work to decide where it is like that. what was the intent the minds you know so that it may not be able to get to that level but would absolutely will be investigated that way I think at least I would I'm going to speak for myself

but yeah because if somebody purposely sent off an MA right outside that's I would see that as egregious so and I would try to prove that so I could enforce that level so and if I couldn't prove it but I could prove they were in possession of it I might go ahead and go with the crime at that point so just because it's just a crime to possess it so if it's an illegal firework. And so if I can't prove, yeah, you were malicious, so I can't show you're the recklessly endangering person, I can still use that as a tool to make sure the hey, this this was not acceptable. So don't think it's being done, right?

And with a hefty fine ordinance that still might actually get that same effect. Do you feel that the as like as you encounter folks those who have them in possession versus those who have them in possession and are lighting them off like that's a level like I'm just trying to understand where where that jump is on the level. What do they have to be doing in your eyes to need another level beyond the 700 750 700 700 700 you know 700 possession. Right. Right.

So then possession and they've lit oneoff possession. They and they've been out there for five hours and and they've just blown 4,000 of their $5,000 fireworks show. Like where what

you remember that the whole point of that first offense segment is so let's say I see you let off one. I go and I reput or I warn you. Um or let's say I I I saw it come up from this area, but I don't know who he did. So, I went over that whole area. I said, "Hey, just to make everybody aware, these are illegal. Do not set them off." And then I leave and then they do it again, they should be fined. Now, they shouldn't be charged with the criminal like all the way to the max because I did warn them. So, they're going to get a fine, but if they continue to do it, then then they can enhance. So, that's where I look at it. Like now the high-end ones, like the first ones are those ones that are recklessly throwing them or like bottle rockets at each other. We see that every once in a while, that's where I think you can start elevating. But I think once you've told them and they see the signs and they let one off and you you don't see who did it, but you go over there, hey, just so you know, I saw one come up over here. This is what it is. This is our fine. And then enforce it after that. If you can't prove it, you educate them. Then you see it do it. Get the fine. It can even the judge because I you can write it to the judge. They can ultimately decide too. I warned them. I I enhanced it to this level because of this. So if you warned them and they do it again after you warned them and didn't prove it, I think you enhance it to that next level. So

on that first warning, could you confiscate them? Oh, absolutely. Confiscate them. Period. As soon as I see them because they're again illegal to possess. You have enough staff to do that. Well, if you're already there seeing them, you're just um and then what we've been doing because it is hard to transport. We'll usually fire has been great about helping us with their side by side or we'll try to get some kind of beach vehicle to come pick them up. We stage a vehicle. We stage a couple vehicles in town that we can if we confiscate them, put them in and secure them and then take when they get full, we take to the PD and unload it or we take it to the fire department and unload it. So, we do stage vehicles to to get rid of illegal fireworks. But if we seize see them, we seize them. That's not a

can I put them back in my car? No. Okay. We take them because it usually doesn't go back in the car. CNCs. We do. Yeah. But folks are stealthy about it, right? Oh, absolutely. It's not like they're like laying it out on the table be like, "Which one's next?" Like they're packed away in their bags or whatever. Right. Does So, when you confiscate them, do you also like get a record of who you confiscated them from?

A lot of times, not always. If if we have a lot going on and it's super busy and I can't get into dispatch, I usually take them if if I don't have a a property receipt on me, and this is just what I do. I actually give them my business card and then I say, I just put seized fireworks. I'll hand it to them. If they want to follow up, they can. Once they're seized, we then transport them to the police department and then Oregon State Police comes down, confiscates them, and then they dispose of them. So, yeah, but if we see them, we seize them. We don't go the open way. We we take them. So because we had too many where so in that scenario where you saw one shot off and you go over there and you go I don't know who did this but guys blah blah blah and you look down and you see that there are four bottle rockets set up them and you say by the way I'm taking these.

If I see their mortar tubes, we take them. Yeah. Um because it's not funny. It's actually pretty pathetic. We'll say something to them. We'll start we'll get about 20 feet away or 20 yards away and then boom, there goes another one and you're like set it off. Yeah. So, and if you ever want to know where the police officers are on the beach, it's where the fireworks stopped for a little a little bit and they're off everywhere else. But yeah, if we see their mortar tubes or something, we just take them. You don't you can't set those off. We're going to take them. Yeah. So, you ever experienced having a mortar get launched at you or through your vehicle go through a fire vehicle rather than through the window?

Yeah. So, they're not afraid. folks aren't afraid to launch them near first responders. Yeah, it's a they think it's the safety in the masses, right? So, there's so many people it's hard to pick out, especially when you're down, you know, ground zero or whatever you want to call it and you're like trying to look around for it, it becomes difficult. And he's right, it is chaotic. So, yeah, that's why the early enforcement, the early we can get in there and try to eliminate as much as we possible. Are we going to fix it all? No, you're right. we're not for a while, but we can probably make a dent if we can start enforcing it. And

yeah, so I I throw out there too that with the potential study ordinance if the city chooses to do that, I think you're going to see people try and find the lowest common denominator for their activities. So as a state parks person, you know, works on the beach a fair amount, I do get a lot of concerns from the arch cave community, from the surface community, from Kenna Beach has kind of died down given their enforcement stance. Um, I would think that that might be a noticeable change for folks. They may see that potentially, and I know this is a city committee, but some consequences may be that they move folks may move around and then maybe there'll be unincorporated communities that want to push for for different things, too. So, so it could be a thing. People will find the soft spot and right

some of the same people that come down here for the fire show, we know spend the night up on Class of Planes. there's some movement up there. And so it's kind of a system, a continuum of we just we still do our 5 a.m. wake up cruise on class of 20. That's one of our biggest things we do for the year presence. A lot of lot of tents out there. A lot of people don't want driving.

That's for instance, the tents you bring up. Um, so we'll go and write if they're impaired, we side them. I mean, I can't make them. I'm not going to make someone drunk drive, but we do sign them for camping orders violation, stuff like that. So, and then usually in the morning, we get phone calls and start going tot gets there. So, that's a whole another topic. Okay. Well, I'll let you have 20 minutes your life back.

So, you want to try to plan meeting in later on in June or January? January. Yeah. Or early February. We'll see. And we can email all of our ideas to whatever your ideas are. Go ahead and send them to me. Yes. I'll try to uh because you need more emails. Oh yeah. Actually, this is my last meeting for the month. I can't believe it. Have to leave town for that. No, I have one meeting.

Okay. Well, thank you all very much. Thank you.