Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Seven. Wow. Crowd. Um, the town council starts this way and we were at a meeting of the Carol County Planning Commission and they started with the pledge of allegiance and then I realized that's probably not a bad idea. So, we've got a flag. [sighs]

To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So, welcome to the October 27th meeting of the New Windsor Planning Commission. First order of business is approval of the 9:22 minutes. I wasn't at the meeting, but I did have an adjustment that I asked Dana to make based on some of the feedback I had gotten. Uh, so just she did send the revision out. I assume everybody had a chance to see it. So, could I get a motion to accept the minutes of the 9:22 meeting?

So, moved. Motion from Kevin and seconded by Dave Grayson. All in favor signify by I

opposed. The eyes have it. 70. [sighs] And as always, we work off of an agenda based on information that I get from the town manager or from uh the community. Um and did not get any notice. We've got a couple updates. there was a meeting that we went to we'll we'll mention but in general it's just going to be continuing with the review of the plan and uh I will add that there there had been some urgency from Springdale to meet when we did uh several months ago it was three months ago so about four months ago they wanted to get on our agenda and uh after that meeting when the arch or the the devel were

the architect and civil engineer. Well, the other was the civil engineer. Engineer. That's the word I was looking for. They we've not heard anything from them. So, I'll let you know if we do hear anything and of course if they need to be on the agenda that we will so do. Um, okay. So, the first item on here is town council updates from Dave.

Um, yeah. Couple things I'll bring up. Um, you may have heard or seen through our past meetings that the um, town council decided to purchase an 18 foot uh, Christmas tree for our uh, park up here. The um, you're going to it's a beautiful giant tree. It's from um, we were offered to it from Dream Big and Union Bridge. they had used it for one year um and decided they were no longer going to be using that and supporting that effort. So, they offered it to the town and um I had the opportunity to go down and look at it with our public works guide. It's a big metal frame with lots of big branches and and they're going to include lots of big ornaments and things that go on this. So, it's going to be quite impressive in the park. Um, you know, in the past we've, um, gotten live Christmas trees and tried to get the biggest one we could and you know, having a six or seven or eight.

Still only seven or eight feet tall. Yeah. Yeah. It's just uh, it was great and they look nice. It's just not impressive. And I think this is going to be a really impressive uh, addition to the park. You still have to go cut it down. Come on. [laughter]

So, um, that's and a bunch of these things we talked about last time. I told you we were going to be doing all these things and um so they're all completed now. We did complete the se the uh seven segments of paving throughout town. So you may have had the the uh the pleasure to drive on some some of the new alleys and roadways that were um paved. They did a nice job for us there. still have some of our highway user revenue uh money available that I think we're going to try to get some of the um manhole covers fixed around town so we can bring them up to the right level or lower them so they're at the right level so our plows don't hit them. Um we completed the improvements over at um War Memorial Park. You may have seen the new pavers over there. Uh Eclectic Motors finished the um restoration of the cannons. they were in place prior to the uh Vietnam traveling memorial wall that was in town. So, that was a nice addition. Uh the part the memorial park next door was decorated nicely. It was kind of blocked off with with um some barricades so that the uh people could come and and uh see that. So, that was uh nice.

Who did the cannons? Uh Eclectic Motors. Oh, they actually did it. They did the restoration of the cannons. I know they sent the wheels out to a guy that actually makes wooden wheels and and had that done and then they wrapped it with the with the the metal the the wheels, but they did the the cannons themselves responsible for the p the stone pavers that are there now as opposed to the crush that was there before. We um had that done by um the same contractor and it's slipping my mind right now that did the work up here in Fountain Park and also did the walls behind um the pavilion over in Memorial Park. Yeah. I I didn't I didn't know if it was town staff or not. Landscape. Thank you. Yeah.

Yeah. They did a great job for us there. We're real real pleased with with what they've done. So, great job. Um, and the the U sidewalk, you know, we had talked about last time up at Fountain Park. They said, you know, they're supposed to replace that sidewalk before Music on the Main. And lo and behold, they did, and it was done, and uh they did a nice job on that, too. So, that was uh we got rid of the the uneven bricks and got the new sidewalk in um before our our town event. So, that was great. Uh, one other thing I wanted to bring up, the 211 High Street renovation next door. Um, last month or so, we met with the three interested contractors, um, weaving being the town and the fire department. Kind of maybe gave them a little more explanation of the project and what we were, you know, thinking and what we wanted to do and all those kind of things. And, um, the bids were due and came back in and no one bid on the project. Um we did hear from the the contractors though and they two one of them the the scope of work was outside of what they wanted to do. The two other ones

[snorts]

uh one felt that maybe there there was not enough uh final information for them to accurately bid and they thought there would be too many um work orders that would come in and raise the price and so they wanted you know thought that wasn't in the town's best interest. the other um the other contractor, he actually had a ton of information and one of his big concerns was the lead paint over there and you know it has to be zero over zero so no lead paint uh if we're going to have tenants in over there and so he had a lot of concerns about that but he actually said you know we sharpened our pencils and we came up with a number we're not bidding but we have a number and he shared that with us and it's it's really in line with the two grants that we have. So, we do have a grant for like $250,000. We put in another grant for $640,000 or $650,000. Um, so we have like $700,000 and he was a hair below that. Um, so that was a good thing because we feel like, you know, we have the money to do the job. Um, and we are not as concerned, we were not as concerned about the lead paint because the that building is going to be gutted totally. um they were worried about windows and stuff. I believe that none of the windows in that building are original anymore. They're already been replaced a while ago, so they're vinyl windows, so they won't have the lead in them. They probably need replaced again, but they don't have the lead in them to worry about. And maybe some of the facade might, but if it was encapsulated, you know, it's going to be painted. It's not within, you know, where windows are going to be used and that kind of stuff. So, we can probably get there. I know Mayor Cornick uh we we talked about that a little bit and we were going to have another lead a person that does lead paint come in and give us the scoop on that and I think Mayor Cornick may have been meeting with him this week. So after that meeting we're planning on getting back together with the fire department um and really see how we we move forward with our next

step. you know, we haven't heard about that second grant yet to see if we got the full money, but if we do get that full money, um I think, you know, we'll be able to go back to these contractors and say, "Okay, here's where we are with the lead and here's where we are with the money, and maybe we'll be able to to to move it forward." So, it wasn't it was unfortunate no one bid, but I don't think it's the end of the world right now. Yeah. So,

anticipated issues with asbestous? Um, we don't believe that there's an asbestous issue over there again because there may be, you know, some asbestous towels that were been up in the ceiling or something, you know, throughout the years, but it's all being it's it's going to be gutted. So, even if we had to do some remediation, you know, with with letter as best as we could get that out of the way and then it would be gone and done. So, It's not like we're planning on leaving anything in there. It's going to really be a shell when when they start building back out. So, that was it.

Thanks. You're welcome.

Hey, good good evening everyone. Um, first item that I I have several items. First one is I brought everyone an updated um packet of the maps. Um we did I understand my colleague Miss Claire Stewart last meeting brought you the packet but we went back reviewed them and basically that we did several changes when it cames when it came to the wording and the labeling and the legend so that there's consistency across all the maps. Those are th those are pretty much the changes that we have. So I will be providing each one of you a packet. I am aware and I do understand that there is a property that we're still pending from your behalf, the designated land use. I understand it's a property that's being um included in the gap. I think it's the huff or her property.

There was two components. One was uh adding the hoff to our GAB and then removing Snater. So for the Hoff property, yeah, for the Hoff property, we need we're still pending the DLU. So once we hear back from you, we'll go ahead and include it in the map. But right now, if you look at it, there's no deal. You usually I want to have those in there because my understanding the way this works is we we've already voted on that here

to make the changes to their growth area boundary. Then once the uh we submit this comprehensive plan to the town council, they will then make a decision on accepting the plan or adjusting anything. But our recommendation includes the Hoff property in the GAB and the removal of the portion and it's reflected in the maps. Yes. Yeah. You you need a designation for that. Yeah. Right now we don't have a deal for that property for just a designation whether designation commercial or commercial agricultural residential. Okay.

It's it's it's residential. What's today it's agricultural, right? And their plan for it to be residential. Yes. Their plan is to go residential, but I don't remember what it was. It was all that, right? Because it's county zoning. Yes. Different than ours, right? So, they were they ultimately wanted to be our 3.5, I believe, to give them the density that will allow them to get state priority funding. Um, however, I think Why am I thinking it's R3? Because that's what they say after that.

Okay, that's what we suggested and they want to come back. So, do you have to put a Just let us know once what designation because right now as it stands there's no DLU for this property. Um, so once you confirm that confirm what designated land use the town wants to go move forward with, we can include it. But right now, as it stands, we don't have one. I I know when I talked with Gary about this when I mentioned that three 3.5 that they wanted us to go to. Show the map while you

I believe the three and I think the county calls it R for 30,000. Is that what it is? They they have they have a little different designation than we do. Thank you.

Oh, I see. I hate to waste your paper. because So this area on on the

so they have it they have it as agriculture right now which is which is what it is and that's what we brought into the growth area boundary. included in the growth boundary that we don't want anything other than that. They have to come to the town and petition if there's some R value that we don't want. So this is okay the way it is right now if you look at map at least the map uh yeah so once you have an update when it comes to that designation just let us know and we'll include it in the map right there's not going to be anything changed by the time we submit the comprehensive plan. No, by the time we submit it, it's going to look like this. If and when if and when down the road the hoff be agriculture for right now. That's the way it is now.

Yeah. The existing town agriculture we did was included in our growth area boundary which we did which we did. If the hoffs do some want to do something different like petition for annexation and the different zoning that they want then they have to do that and that's that happens down the road. I'm looking at the very first map. They aren't numbered, so we got to go back to that because they were numbered before and we're throughout our plan, we're referencing those numbers. So, we'll we'll we'll need to have numbered like we had before one, that two, whatever. I believe it was 13.

And so the you mentioned the numbers for the R1, R2, back to it. Yep. the ones you had before. No, no. Actually, each of these individual maps had a number on them. Okay. So, we'll want to keep that. Um, but I'm looking at this one that's on top, the land use designations, and I'm seeing this area on the lower left. I see the growth area boundary. It's Hallowell to the right, Greenwood Church Road to the left. I'm assuming that's the property we're talking about. Correct.

And why would that not be R3? Because it's agricultural today, right? We haven't approved anything, right? The only thing the only thing we voted on was just to include it in the boundary area. We did not approve or vote or even discuss any type of land zoning for that. All we did was brought in the farm, the 200 acres or whatever it is of agriculture into our growth area boundary. Hence the outline connected to our our town. That's all we did, which enables them to be able to come back at some point with what their future plan is.

Becomes a future annexation area if you keep looking down the maps. But I'm I'm But on this one, since I know that's kind of a a key one, the land use designation one, that's the only spot that's black. And and we maybe should be have like slashes or something on there. It's the only part that's there's blank. There's no coloring to it. It's it's not conservation. It's not our one, two, three. It says over on the right hand side in the legend, it's growth area.

Yes. But that that's around No, it's not. That whole area the growth area boundary is that red line going all the way around. Right. But that Hoff property has no coloring or designation should I think should have something. The fourth map has your zoning designation. Right. But this one on this land use designations. So it shouldn't it say agriculture since that's currently what it's designated?

I understand what you're saying. There's nothing there. And it you think it where all the other ones have shading green, red, light brown, yellow, purple. There's no other areas within the growth area boundary that has no shading whatsoever. It's just all white. It's not. And so you think it should be identified design and it's not designated that issue designated land use. Is that a New Windsor determination of these categories or is that a count? Yeah. What new Windsor land use? I'm sorry. There's the heading.

So [clears throat] we don't have a designated land use of agricultural in the GAB. It's one of these other 10. So, I'm thinking we somehow need to designate that area with something. We need our lawyer. I understand exactly what you're saying. If you look further down, it does show on other maps what it is, but it needs to be called something on this for agricultural within

do we need to create something for that specifically? You think we should just zone it? Well, I I I think we we just have injected a whole new element that the county has gone and I guess we we're going to need to take a look at this. You want to maybe tell us the changes that you've done on these because that's kind of

pretty much that that's the only change. That's the only change. Yeah. because the rest is just it's just consistency. Um if you look I don't know if you have the previous packet of maps that we provided you but uh you have for example the in the legend for example growth area you had a different symbology depending on the map. So now it's standard across all the maps like the thick red line, some wording, we have some typos. Um, also we had a rebranding of the department. Now it now we go by the department of planning and land management. But if you notice on the old maps we put department of planning.

Does anybody have the ones that we that Abigail gave us that we've been working off of? I've got the one from last week, our last meeting. That's not from Abigail. That's that's looks like that's following what has done. I don't have one with me. I don't think I have

Oh, I think I gave them to you. The new one, aren't you? way to find out. I had I gave to you. Wait a second. Mark, did you copy Abigail's when you gave us that one set? No, we have maps in there. I don't know which. But that's okay. I have the set you up, right, Glenn? Yeah, there we go. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, it might not be in order.

Well, that's okay. What I was trying to see about the numbering on these things. Yeah. If you can show me that'll be great. So, that way I can incorporate that one. Okay. Yeah, there's a block on all of them. It says map one, map two, map three. See, let me So, I can make sure we incorporate that here. Yes, that do map one looks like map three whatever. And as for my records, we have 13 maps. So, okay. So, I have let's see. I show 14. I do. I show 14.

We excluded one. I'm sorry. No, there was a numbering problem. You'll see that I think it was 12. Y you're right. 12 was missing. Missing just we just was in these were put together by Abby. What is 13 then? It went from 11 to 13. Okay.

Progress because my understanding is that when we submit this plan, we want this growth area boundary to reflect that piece of property. But um in terms of the land use and how that rolls forward, we have to get assistance on how that gets addressed. Okay. Well, I got I did get an email from Michelle saying she would not be at this meeting, but she would her first foray into public meetings will be the town council meeting.

Okay. So, next Monday. Yes. So, you will see her and then and I did remind her that it's a date change because she may not have caught that. Um, and I'm going to be at that meeting also. So, I'll I'll I'll say something to her about not only about this, but see if she'll make sure she's at our next meeting. I'll go pick her up.

But she's doing well, by the way. I guess I should have added that at the beginning. I'm very jealous. She's doing so well. Okay. I also want to mention that um I spoke with Miss Claire Stewart and if you are interested in you can email me a copy of the draft current draft that you have so we can review chapter by chapter just to make sure that um all the required elements are are included in in the draft. So, we'll be more than willing to review what you've been working on right now and provide any feedback that that might be beneficial.

Email us. You don't have a copy. I don't have a draft right now. The most current draft. No, I don't have that one.

Yes, I will send you a copy of most current you just we'll we'll we'll talk afterwards. Yeah. I want to chat with Claire. Well, I guess what I most want to chat about is the and I know that you're still relatively new to us. You only if it's about six months, but that's why my understanding is of having somebody sitting in your chair to be going through this. And as I mentioned last uh Thursday when we were at the commissioners, we have had at least five different people sitting in that chair while we've been doing this. So, the continuity may not necessarily be there, but as I also said to whoever the lady was next to me, we're expecting um we we put a lot of time into this and we're not going to we need you need to be somewhat gentle because we've had somebody sitting there even though it's different and uh we're not going to go through and make significant changes to this plan. Um, we do will need to know what may be missing, but uh, you know, we we've had somebody sitting there throughout this for the last several years to help us. And if we're not going in a direction that there's something not needed or something that there, you know, some law or something like that, that's kind of the role that you [cough and clears throat] you're I know you're the top of the iceberg because you've had others below that. But

yeah, okie do. What else you got for us? Um, in the meantime, that's pretty much what I have right now. Um again, any any other items that you might need assistance with, um feel free to reach out. Um we're committed and helping you as much as possible. So, the offer is there. Thank you.

Um and that's a good segue. Uh the next item I have on the agenda, got a an email, gosh, a couple weeks ago, probably about a month ago, just after the last uh meeting that was held here, uh from the Carol County U planning and zoning commission, and they they wanted they requested that we come up and have a chat with them about how we're doing with the comprehensive plan. Um, and one of the they're doing that with each of the towns and there were a couple of us that had not been up there, but they've had six [snorts] they had hit six of the eight municipalities. So Dave, Drew, and I went up there last Thursday and we had a good half an hour talking with the commissioners. Um, and I I don't know why, but I was I was a little surprised that the commissioners, you know, were aware of some of the the the issues that we have in town. Um and that um there was one commissioner in particular who had a a bit of a special interest in New Windsor in connection and um the commissioners I I think and we're seeing some of the the comments from from Javier um I think they were surprised that we were left to be out here kind of on our own and not having you know more assistance as we had had in the past. Um, but as I said to the the the I name is escaping me. Who was the lady that was running that meeting?

Daffany. Daffany. And her position title

your she was saying that uh you know we we we will you know pitch in and help you as much as we can to get this done which is a whole different attitude than we've had for the last couple of years. Um, and the commissioners seem again, I think, surprised is maybe too strong a word, but they were disappointed that we were kind of left out here to do this. So, um, and as I said to Daphne, um, in front of them that need to be general with us because if there's something missing from this, uh, because they we I know part of the process is for the county to review this, um, you know, we we haven't had somebody really been arm-in- arm with us going through this like we had in the past. I know you were here when we did it the last time. Um, so, um, the questions that they had, I I thought it was kind of comical when we were talking about what they did reinforce that they it's not just us saying that there is issues uh with, you know, water capacity. Um, and they asked us about the quarry was is is an option and and they you know to put my hand on the shoulder so he didn't bounce up because of you know that that's going to be 70 years down the line before we're really going to be able to have a you know results of you know a quarry that's work that's finished and we'll be able to get water from that. Um, and then there was a second item that I had. What was it? Oh, yeah. There seemed to be a uh um apparently this is a discussion that the commissioners have been having for a bit of time at least two of the

commissioners about the idea that well you know we're they're running into all the a preservation because Carol County has a significant amount of a preservation in relation to other counties and um how that's somewhat boxing in some of our communities unities and when I mentioned that we talked about our plan and without any other direction, guidance, influence, you know, we're the small town field, there's not a whole lot of opportunities for expansion, annexation. Um, and I mentioned because of all the a preservation and of course the quarry which everybody's aware of and Mount News which is appearing on the southern part of town that came up ski resort.

Yeah. Yeah. There we go. So um so there there was a discussion that they just were kind of bouncing amongst themselves. You know we we really need to address this that we just in in perpetuity we can't take in some of this other lands for the communities. Um but that being said that doesn't really change anything in the short term for us and our plan. Um so those were my couple comments. Dave or Drew did you have any else you wanted to add? just they seem very receptive to our plight and

it's a good word. Yeah, it was a good opportunity for for um Mark to go through the um you know, he had a he had a good running agenda that we got to talk about a lot of things that that we've been working on and where we're going and what we're doing and why we're doing it and um and it was good for them to hear that and um you know, I got the the feeling that you know, they thought we were on track doing the right things and there was ample opportunities for more support from the from the county and they they did offer that support. So

it was mentioned about this uh this agreement between the county and the town and these are the towns has that agreement and that uh that that that needs to be looked at from from our perspective about being able to get you know support for this. So it should be a smoother ride the next time go through whatever group will go through this comprehensive plan. So it's your chance to reopen.

All righty. Okay. The comprehensive plan review the notes that I saw is the pickup table 15. I think it was after table 15 is what I saw. Yep. But I also saw on whoever was the square keeper. Was that you Dave or Drew? Drew did the uh the typing. Kevin did the typing. Okay. Kevin did the typing keyboard. I was and I was horrible. I just wanted to say that now. [laughter]

It was somebody in my body that did that. It wasn't really me. I do notice. Oh, it's not going to work. I guess go back. Um Well, yeah, I will. that there was it looks like you had a lot of discussion at the beginning about making some changes and then didn't see a whole lot after that. So I'll just I'll just go down to table 15. It's not worth rehashing. But what I did see from the scribe table 15 which is where the focal point of starting before after this keep this in with a question mark. You had removed with a question mark.

Same thing. Remove is what you question mark. Um not being here as part of the discussion. So I don't know because the names are all not really valid. Universal Forest Products doesn't exist. It's now New Windsor. I think the thing was a lot of these were gone. Oh, okay. Well, anyway, that's I'm sorry. I was thinking at the table previous to this that I took off the town website. This one comes from Carol Countyy's Department of Planning and Land Management. So, we're getting this from the county. This is what they think of us in relation to the current.

This is in August of 2006 though is what this is from. No. Oh, May 2020 2025. Oh, okay. You're looking at the hard Yeah, [clears throat] you're looking at the hard copy. That's the problem. That's, you know, that was Yeah, we weren't looking at that when I made hard copies for everybody. I had not gone and put in the updated okay stuff in there. Early in my retirement uh that I took that on to go in there and do that. So what's up there on the screen is

look at this. And you know what? I can make that larger too for those. So, while you're while you're updating that, my my question would be for these two charts that are showing businesses, is that something we want to put in our plan or is it something that we want to call out in our plan with a pointer go to county planning departments on go to the new current

and I don't know I mean sometimes it's nice to see that but you know the value of it is questionable I I will go back to again we're we're we're now having a discussion is citizen planners what's the value one way or the other. It's preference, you know, and this was following what we did the last time.

Yeah. And I think part of it is it's a printed copy and you're not going to go from reading it. That link's going to be done. If they have a hard copy, if it's on a computer, they can click it and go to the Well, I'm not even saying it has to be an active link, right? I think it would be great, but the link's great if you go as well and no one's going to be updating my quote. I'm just thinking that we should tell the people who are reading this, whether it's online or whether it's a hard copy where you can find the list you want to find a list of businesses that I don't know because I think the link is going to be quickly and the list is going to be updated quickly and we're not But federal advocate that's the same for almost any of the tables we have.

That's why we have a date and where it came from. So if you want something more current, you can go there. For example, we had 2006 and that wasn't, you know, so we've got something more updated. I just threw that out there. And it's outdated. It's outdated.

I will add from having and and you would you would definitely notice this. Go back to the previous table. Sorry. 14 since you have the old version. 2006 um I went and added brick and mortar versus homebased. You didn't have all the homebased in the 2006. Um and I my guess is there that's probably kind of hard to keep an eye on. I know one of them kind of got started within the last year or two. Um and I'm sure there are other ones, but um it's kind of like taking the temperature And it does have on here where this information came from and when. So, so that does give the perspective. If you're sitting looking at this in 2030, um you would expect to see something different. So, makes no difference to me. I just

Is that a rhetorical question? Javier, would you know what I can do is I can I can verify tomorrow because I don't have it with me the annotated code and confirm if it's if it's a requirement and get back to you. Fair enough. Sure. Bottom you have it's from the source is from May 2025. Yeah. That's not accurate either. What? County Department of Planning and Land Management because there's a lot of businesses. Again, this this is what they have been out years

again that this is

I don't I don't know. bunch of hours is probably gone, right? So I don't know who Yeah. This is chapter 10, correct? Table 14 or 15. Table 15. Okay. I'm not going to go read that right now.

Yeah. Okay.

Well, how about if for what it's worth, what ones do you know? I get DP Smelters is gone, right? Yeah, whatever that's located in Carol County. Isn't there still a Bennett? Because they started going

Yeah. But then didn't he move somewhere else?

Okay. some kind of

business is gone, right? Yeah.

I can't go that fast. I'm sorry. Oh, New WSOR Auto's gone. NewsOR. Oh, but isn't that is that Eclectic? Okay. So, that's Eclectic Motors one location. Is is it eclectic? No, it's actually got another name that's still there, but the school, but the BNB is no longer in operation.

That's Lonear. No, just pizza would be where

store carry out. Carry out. That's

right. from he wouldn't have known that by tracks right next to Rabs. So So at le No, but that's it's not a business. Oh, it is. It's okay. Church. The best should be how does one spell E I S L I S

L I S I M O L I M

Windsor Automotive is gone. It's not wins in it either. That's Frankie. Mark. Um, for Reisimo, it's I don't know. I can't see, but it's double L. I don't know if you have one or two. Yeah. Two L. Okay. This is Frankie. Yeah. What's it called? Frankie and Frankies. Frankies. There we go. Okay. Okay,

Jack's still in business. Sounds familiar.

Well, store two guys. It was It used to be a department store in Baltimore.

Thank you. I gota go. Good luck. Thank you guys. Have a good trip. Thank you. It's called what? Adams now. It's not a state bank. Gotman's gone, right? There's no bank at the end. Well, it's a double bank. Okay.

Garbage is still there. Is that spelled right? Sounds like it should be an E. There's a real estate guy. Oh, yeah. The young guys construction. Windsor construction is

gone. Windsor construction is gone. That sign up is not his office or anything. That's just that's his rental property. one of them.

Yep. I think it's still real estate. No, she worked she worked for somebody

Savas. What is that? Sunday morning at Sav. Yeah, that's it.

[snorts]

I don't know why this isn't fitting. I'll have to go back and get this. Okay. What else isn't on here? This is this is the list that should No, this list came from the county. The one table before this came from the town.

You know, table 15 is the Yeah, I'm saying commercially zoned properties. Is that different than town businesses? Does that make it does that matter to anybody? Yeah. These these this smaller table was ones that were out in our campus, the campus out the road. Yeah. These other this long list was the ones that were in town. That's the difference. This was our industrial area.

Oh, so this table 15 was the town. 16 is not really because you know New Windsor auto is was here in town. Well, that should excavating see the difference now. Well, he's got it. You have it, but this was industrial in table 15

16 was the current was difficult working with what I got. So like if I just have that disappear table 15 now we're sitting here having this discussion but it's crossing like I don't see there's something See, this is one of those areas I feel like I'm flying in a cloud because I don't really have a opinion about whether this belongs in here or not. have the knowledge.

It's a requirement. It's a flip of a coin, right?

But I remember I'm going to just put a marker to verify also table 14 if it's required. Yes. Oh, okay. My note says Price was going to check on this to see if we needed to have this. Okay. Okay. We have different different table numbers. So, did we lose a table somewhere? Is that why?

Okay. Yeah. Initially when we started this there was a request for hard copy when we started to do this review after Emily left. So I gave everybody some people want hard everybody got a hard copy but the data had just gotten census data be started to become available. And then also after then after we got started on this, Javier joined and he was able to get me some information, but when you got your hard copy prints, it had the old data.

I never gave you guys new ones. I think I actually did. And then there was a lot of head shaking and frowning when I said, "How about if I just do another print and give all of this to you with the new ones?" It's like, well, we got and rightfully so. You had your notes all in the other hard copy that I had given you. So that's how we got to this. I should have reminded you of this last month. So Okay. But I was saying the hard copy you gave us this particular chart, New Windsor businesses um show up as table 15. Yes. Yes. I don't remember but early on there was something that was repetitive.

So yes. So for those keeping score, I'm the third scribe of this. If you recall, we started with the county. I'm sorry. Uh, somebody from the state, Joe Griffiths, [snorts] had somebody on his staff was here and then he came here to tell us essentially, "No, we're not going to do that anymore." And then we had Emily for a while and that crashed and burned and now you're stuck with me. So, I'm not going anywhere. So, um, no, we've beaten this to death. So

Javier is going to check for us to see 14 and 15 so far. And when we leave here, I will send you I'm not I'm not on the internet here. I I will send this this latest version to you and I and I know everybody won't necessarily like it, but I'm going to send you also this version also. So you'll have the most recent Or does everybody would everybody like to have a hard copy?

Okay. So, I will get a hard copy. I mean a a soft copy.

Well, Well, we're going to be reviewing it as per um the statement uh annotated code. Okay.

See the when we did it the last time we had somebody kind of guiding leas that knew what that was. So that oh you need to do this, you need to have this. Now, we're putting this together without that knowledge. And then theoretically, you know, somebody's going to review and say, "Oh, here's what the code. Oh, you got to do this. You should have done this." So, that's that's where the being gentle comes in because it should be okay. So, 14 and 15. I'm just putting a line through it for now. We will revisit whether that goes in here or not. And I'm actually going to put a second line on this because I think we're going down the path with this one, but we'll wait and find out. Okay. So let's see those two tables. So current conditions. So we talk about the employment campus area. Okay. I see the wording now and we don't didn't even address those. We just used the words of those. And I got a table of the town businesses inventory and description of commercial areas.

That's this is what I got from the county. No, I don't have did not get that. I got this current conditioning there.

You did that last time. I I think that wording seems good. I think where we get off is these tables whether we need to have them in here or not. And it could be we could just not have the tables and just have the wordings that we have in here

under neighborhood businesses. I mean the parks are still there. So actually table 15 does go with this inventory and description of commercial areas. I guess it's this one with the New Windsor town businesses. Okay. labor force and employment and your hard copy wouldn't this table and I took the 20 census and we had before was the uh 1990 census compared to the 2000. In this case, we've got the 2000 compared to the Even though the last plan has 2007 and was amended in 2010 was using 22 excuse me 2000 census data and below that then I get into the wording that goes with that. If you want to take a moment and read that

When you look at this education, health, social services, the these are the categories that you know the census grouping. Um and I will add that I added this column percentage change. public administration was the big big increase if you will whatever wholesale trade is and what that definition is but you see we had a big jump in that drop off in agriculture forestry fishing hunting mining 10 people down to three

yep that follows national That's what I was saying. Does that include the uh employees at the public libraries? Is that including that number?

Does that include I guess the fishing is empty. [laughter] He's one of three. So, if you're used to taking a look at numbers, you can look and see the changes. And I I I took this table as we had it before and then I took the liberty of doing the highlighting. Um we Oh, you know what? Now that I got this as a larger on the screen, it doesn't see goodness. this down the same page. 125. Maybe we can have all of it together and everybody can see.

All right. So, this was the next one in there under the labor employee persons by occupation. same 720 those are the census categories. So, let's see where we are here. This acreage of industrial, commercial uses and zoning My note was the price was going to provide that.

So we Is that something you can help us with, Javier? This would be Boy, this is really got be on page

right after table 17. Let's see. I'm going to Table 17. I know it's actually this right here. This this section here county zoning maps of 2006. 65 acres of land are zoned industrial. So you want updated numbers there? Yes, that would be great. Can you put a little note like you're doing like highlighted updated data? I don't I just put your name.

Thank you. based on the Carol handling zoning maps. what we have there. I'm gonna slide down here and see if one of these can help us. No, this is this is dollars.

That's accessible tax base by land use. Yeah, I don't Okay. So, [sighs] industrial and commercial tax base.

What was the guidance for these categories, these tabs, these sections that I'm just following the cookbook of what we did last time. I residential development contributes the largest dollar amount to the county's revenues. And as you can see, 77% go 2025, excuse me, 75%. 76% almost residential dollars. Agriculture 11% and industrial is 13. You see that every five years the change but residential consistently is three out of every four dollars accessible tax base is residential. Now, kind of to your question, Drew, you know, we don't have, you know, we got agricultural here in in the town. I would think 11% that sounds like almost a high number. Talk about the town,

but For what it's worth, it's at least it's it's whatever this really is, it's consistent essentially 75% Residential over the six two seven periods two four six periods agricultural is low teens and 5 to 7% for industrial

you have a bump in the industrial Which I guess would that make it by Hoover? No, that would that maybe that's the agriculture. I don't know what's industrial.

Yeah, you're right.

Not 2025. double between from 20 to 25.

Oh, I don't know what that is.

Industrial 70 million

water and sewer system. Industrial controls are not expensive.

Okay. Okay, I'm just going to move to the next cloud or mud puddle. Taxbased New Windsor as well as countywide has traditionally been heavily weighted towards residential land use. Primary economic goal of the 97 plan was to increase the commercial and industrial tax base. You know, I I can remember us having this discussion because we just we're just saying the same thing. But

well, no. I mean, no. I remember having this discussion 12 years ago. Do we want that in there now? Is that I don't think so.

Okay, I'm going to strike that. What's creepy about this is theoretically we've gone over all this already before with Emily. So, I don't I don't remember us having a discussion about this, but

Emily was somebody that she came to town council meetings and expressed an interest in being helping the town in some capacity or something. Um, and she volunteered to be the scribe to to do what I'm doing right here. So, we actually have already gone through this entire plan and then She had wasn't able to continue. So that's where we are picking the pieces. That okay. Oh, good. I'm sorry. I didn't

Good. You want to lead me? What What are we taking out that table? No, no, no. I'm talking about that sentence. Okay. Yeah, it's gone.

Economic. Yeah, that's gone. Okay. I don't know. Overall overall man land zone with some type of commercial industrial employment is increase. I don't know what that's based on. We don't Wow.

There has definitely been a lot of work done in this area because this looks this is looking different than what we had in the last plan. So, it looks like she's done some I don't know if it's freelancing because we would have discussions and she would take what she was hearing and and kind of adjusting. So analysis we're in the analysis that community needs, right?

Yeah. All right. What's the pleasure? You said it wasund

112 pages. Yeah, but this is commercial, industrial or employment campus. So that would be included theoretically in the 187 or the 208. All right. I'm going to locate the tables. There we go. Okay, I believe we do have a table. The index this way. the maps tables. I know we have zoning ac

Okay, there's 407 that commercial, industrial or employment campus. 80 for industrial. We don't have commercial in this. There's 107, which possibly could mean why the numbers change. 87 Okay, now this isn't going to help anybody sitting here flaming around.

What's actions? Yeah. I'm going to send out this latest version. This this version has the tables in it with census data. And let's just not do anything with this chapter 10 tonight. And take a look at the chapter 10 that we can go to next and look at next month and move on to chapter 11 because if it's really would be the first time you're seeing these tables it's kind of hard to look at this especially while I'm scrolling around trying to find the others. uh I'll send the entire plan and I'll also if you recall I have this this is a word document and I have another word document that I sent that has the index and that it has the list of tables and that isn't that that's where I'm kind of

keep scrolling back and forth on um which is not an easy thing to sit there while somebody is doing that Um, still no substitute for hard copy. I'm sorry. You can flip back and forth, but that's that's what I'm going to suggest for chapter 10. Chapter 10 has census tables in here. Um, there also all the other tables beforehand that we've had or updated. that I know you were looking at last month. They would have hard copy would have been the old ones. The electronics that I've sent have the new ones. I will send you out the most recent because I also have the most recent verbiage that we've changed. Okay. Going to chapter 11. So I see all kind of notes here on this chapter 10. when we got down to recommendations from Emily here. All right. Chapter 11, historical and cultural resources. Anybody have any notes on on I don't have anything at the beginning of this.

I'm seeing that we this site currently houses is not the brethren service center prep was something we pointed out. So, I think what we're we I I think it's pretty safe to say 10 is when we started to run chapter 10 is when we started to run into uh losing Emily. Preparatory school was they call it Springdale preparatory school. That's what I'm going to call it. Thank you. Uh oh, I got a note here. So Drew was Yeah. What? But that's all I have was true. So I don't know what that history is the history. Wow. Why is this such a mess 19th century?

Okay. So the first section, anybody have any notes on that? Historical context, historic contest context. Right. But I'm talking No, thanks. But your notes from from when we went over this before? Anybody have anything that you had a note that needed to be changed? Yeah, I did that one. Yep. Yep.

That was kind of the only note other than Drew's name. And I don't know. I can't see anything there because you weren't here in the 18th century. So,

he is an old soul. You know, it's funny. That's where I have Drew's name. [laughter]

Why? What? What's that? I don't know how much pieces all time piece. So we got any notes any word choice you want? It's

Saturday afternoon, early fall. There's no peace and tranquility. You want to call it old

where

it says popularity. That be Consider historic New England. this inventory of historic structures. Um did not get an update. But would the historic structures change? So I felt that was safe to get rid of that. Okay. Then there is this. I do not recall why.

Yeah. I mean we elected to do this but I kept it the same. These are all different historic preservation

resources. Yes. I did not have any note in there to take it out. Take it out. I mean, you know, I don't recall going this far into

I got Randolph offered to update the historic properties historical structures for us, but I don't know if that's they're not that looks like a bigger list than what's in the old in our original version. No, we just did it in two columns. We did it in two columns one initial

I don't know if those table that table preservation resources um I don't know that it's accurate for one thing I know of are but I you know there's a long list that I don't

list I'm not sure you know to leave it in we would have to go through those like Maryland rehabilitation tax credit is that still the way it is that program in today's environment still there we'd have to go look at each one of those research it does it belong itong someone that kind of think number three that's probably my guess is with this one Barb that was something

important with her she would have known stop and that that's probably where all this came from. So, do I hear strike this?

Got motion to strike it from Kevin and a second by Dave Grayson. Okay. just took everything out of the paragraph that

Yeah, you'd have to take that sentence out. They are available on the county's website. Oh, I don't know. You're going to find these on the county website. I say you can reach out to Barb Lily. She retired somewhere. Last thing I

Yeah. Yeah, clearly that somebody had some expertise. That would be my bet. Okay. Okay. I think I know what to do. Heritage tourism. No, this back when we were doing this, this was that something of the Civil War. Civil War. Yeah, the Civil War trail.

Oh, there it is. Heart of the Civil War. Yeah.

I I mean, I've seen them in other towns. We don't have one. They mentioned the raid. No, there there isn't one. There isn't one. The heritage committee has been talking about getting some either contributing money for that or getting something from the state because there was a time period we were talking about this. I don't know if it was here because it was my early days in town about this. all the communities because the Civil War trail was there was money in the state for that.

Yeah, there it is right there along with it. Certified Maril Heritage Areas Authority in July 20, 2006. Yeah. So, Don't know.

That was right when we were hot and heavy into this. I have a note here under this paragraph certification enables that price that's out. Anybody else see anything on that? No. There's target investment zones.

Yes, I have that as that whole. Yeah.

And I alsated

Yes. You got a couple of them up in Westminster. Were you there, Drew? Were you there? Neil was

What's the preference? We strike this or

it's gone. And then I would say I would say News is designated Maryland's part of Civil War. Put that in there. I heard remove. What you want remove?

Does anybody know Carol County did receive designated portion because that doesn't make sense. Similar national effort on way beginning in the fall of 2006. Yeah, I think that's

I think this is I think this nearly all the designations that should all So I think both I think that last paragraph should go. A similar national effort on the way beginning may may designate this. So New Windsor has received designation. that we've received was certified July 26 or 2006. Okay. Okay. So, this is all kind of stating something. We're just not going to unstate it. Okay. Anybody have any notes on the community needs? Yeah, I do too. And before that, I have a highlighted note to include something

about Frank's book, the video. What's the time? What is it? Everybody read that times passage times crosser. Times crosser. So everybody, have you read it, Drew? Yeah. Have you read it, Kevin?

Oh, stop up at the heritage committee at her the museum. It's a Emmy awardwinning video about New Windsor former resident. What did they get? Times Crossroads. Times Crossroads by Frank Bavic, who has slept at 302 High Street many times. [laughter]

He did. He was there like 12 years or so at that. Yeah, he's down in Charle now. Wow. He's down Charles Town now.

Frank Junior follow dad. He's the director of MPT. So um does anybody else have that note? at the quality of life, sense of place of communication, toolkit of many strategies. Yeah. I have a lot of

Okay, this capital Are town officials still interested in developing a pattern book? Oh, okay. about the pattern upon that.

I have towns developed guidelines as part of and use. That's why I have it all crossed out.

What you said, but it sounds like that's end here. 725 Mark,

is this the copy you're gonna be emailing? Yes. Yes. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Y here you go. Mine with all the notes marked up on it. Just, you know, this thing has been through so many changes. Let's see. It's up to 78. We still got 20 pages to go. Mark, just to just to clarify. So from my side on chapter 10, I have three items. Confirm if table 14 and 15 are required. When sectioned,

correct? Table 17 also on chapter 10. Uh let's see. No, no, we're good. 14 and 15. Yeah, 14 and 15. And then there item that I have in the area. It was just after 17. There was a section about acreage

acreage of industrial once you use this you need updated data because you're using 2006 correct exactly so our next meeting is the Monday before Thanksgiving the following meeting is the Monday before Christmas.

So, it's the 24th of November and the 22nd of December. Normally, we don't meet both of those because of I don't know how it evolves. We usually miss one, but how does that look for everybody? We still I think if we had two more meetings I think within two meetings we can finish this. We can get it to a point of and uh before I do when I go home tonight I will send this latest version to everybody. Looks like we just want it up here. say where we stopped off around page 78 is what I recall. You want to make a note. I've got it noted in here. 879 actually is where we stopped. Y and it's like 102 103.

All right. Um for the 24th was that for what you know right now you think you'll be here I mean that Christmas and Thanksgiving often are travel times but you think you think you'll be here yes 24th yes

24th and then we can chat then whether we're going to meet Christmas week or not But that's that also is the next one after that. Also on your calendars, please mark, we don't often have a a high turnout from this group, but it's one of the, you know, opportunities to get a little bit of a kudos from the the town is that the 13th of December at 9:00 at St. Paul is a is a town breakfast. And we will not have Neil's trivia. Why not? Is Is Kevin going to come up with new trivia?

Kevin's going to have to work up something. We're we're we're we have to go on a retreat to plan that. So [laughter] I like that. Yeah. In eight days. What's the time on that? Right. It's 9:00 at St. Paul. That's what I thought. About two hours. Yeah. It's a Hawaii retreat. We have to I see. You weren't invited though. I was going to say I want to be part of that brain trust. $3,500 to this. I'd let the town spend that on me. [laughter]

He's able to afford it because of the free water that people is recorded. This is all just free water or free trip to Hawaii.