Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome  to the semianual joint meeting of the Carol   County Board of Education and the Carol County  Board of Commissioners. Uh we're very happy to   be hosting the Board of Education this afternoon  for our joint meeting this time. And uh we do have   a hard stop time of 3:30, so we want to get  right into it. And uh Superintendent McCabe,   I will kick things over to you to start us off.  Excellent. Good afternoon and thank you for this   opportunity to get together uh and discuss uh  important matters for the future of CCPS. Um   and it's really timely for us to gather now with  the 2026 General Assembly having just concluded uh   their work a week ago and you having released your  proposed FY27 budget just two days ago. So, first   let me begin by thanking you for your commitments  in the FY27 budget. We are so appreciative that   you were able to fully fund the board's operating  budget request and meet the capital requests as   well. Um, your ongoing support of our needs is  very valued and we are aware that there are other   jurisdictions in the state who do not enjoy the  kind of collaborative partnership that we have   with you. So, so thank you. And we don't take that  for granted at all. Um, from the state standpoint,   uh, you always sort of hold your breath. Um, with  the legislative session now behind us, we can say   it wasn't too bad. Um, and it can always be worse.  Um, it helped that we are in an election cycle   right now and the state is facing a structural  deficit. Uh so those two factors helped temper   some of the bills that would have carried more of  a fiscal impact right now. Um our projections uh   for state operating funding were pretty accurate  uh from what we had shared with you in the winter   uh with just a few minor adjustments. Um and on  the capital side we're scheduled to receive what  

we would have anticipated although there is one  adjustment there to work through as well. Um and   we'll cover those items in our presentation.  So with that we are we're and it's and I will   say the presentation is very quick so that we can  spend most of our time uh talking. So if uh would   you like to do other um introductions or would you  like to go right into the presentation? I think I   think everybody knows everybody. I mean if you  would prefer to do introductions we can but if   not we can jump right into the presentation. We'll  jump right in then. All right. Well we're going to   ask Mr. Burke our CFO and eventually Mr. Pro Cup,  our director of facilities to present a couple of   these slides. So, wherever you want to go from,  Rob, where did you hire him from? Somewhere good. Look how small that mic is compared to He might  be a little tall. Now, we'll switch. We'll switch. Okay, good afternoon everyone.  Um, as superintendent mentioned,   uh, we are going to go through some brief  highlights of our operating budget. Again,   timely that you all released your proposed  budget uh on Tuesday. So, uh, just going   to kind of share our uh, status as far as the  operating budget. So, as far as local funding,   uh, with your proposed budget fully funding the  board's request, um, the board and superintendent   obviously appreciate your support. Um, we  believe through our budget process, uh, you know,   discussions we had, the, uh, transparency of the  discussions in our open meetings and so forth,   our board and superintendent made some difficult  decisions in arriving at that budget. And so we  

appreciate your support in the funding. As far as  state funding goes, um although we have some high   level information, we'll be getting more over  the next month or so. We project having final   uh state aid calculations uh in miday. So we will  um you be keeping a close eye on that. But our   um in our as far as we look at that, we expect  some minor decreases in a couple of areas of   blueprint funding. Um and so that shouldn't have  any significant impact on our um budget plans as we were working through the board's budget. uh  sessions and I believe at the uh agency hearing   that we shared uh during the commissioner's um  beginning of your budget process, uh we tried to   provide some perspective on a five-year forecast  and what the budget challenges are as we see them   out over the next several years. Uh we've had the  discussion that enrollment is uh flattening and in   this current year was a uh decrease in student  enrollment uh that triggered the three-year   average provision. So we'll continue to recognize  some of that enrollment decline over the next two   years as well. And so as we look out over the  next several years, what we see is a significant   uh slowing in state revenue support funded by on  a per pupil basis. We see increases overall as  

the blueprint funding formulas increase over those  years. So we've kind of got the variables working   against each other. the the funding formula  increasing but our enrollment uh potentially   decreasing. So we've projected small uh increases  there. That's only about a half a percent a years.   And so as we look out over our revenue projections  with the with the state over those five years with   the county, what's included in the operating plan  uh as well as a projection of a consistent amount   of funding for fiscal year 32 that's not yet  in your plan. But just for the broad picture   to be able to see what we see is revenue growth  in the 1011 million range. So that's about 2.2%   2%. And as we look on the expenditure side  at the cost pressures that we've seen related   to compensation and employee benefits, uh other  operating costs from utilities to insuranceances   and and many of the shared operating costs that  you all face as well. we see uh projected co   uh increases in cost pressures on the budget uh in  the close to 5% range. That's about 4.9% per year.   So what we're seeing is a is a variance between  our projected revenues and projected expenditures   looking out over the next several years. And  so, um, we wanted to share that with you,   begin to have conversation about what that  could look like. And, you know, we've got   some perspective over the last two decades when  enrollment and and state revenues tighten up,   what that can mean for the school system. And  so, I think anything that we can do to get ahead  

of that and have those discussions, uh, you know,  would be beneficial for everyone. So, I will just   point out um these were sort of built off of our  recent history. Uh what we did not build in here,   the only piece we sort of know and didn't build  in here yet is the impact of a charter school,   you know, assuming if that comes in to to being  whether that's in fiscal year 28 or some later   year, you know, we won't know until that sort  of happens. that'll be sort of a one-time uh   increase impact that will then carry on uh in the  neighborhood of four to five million additional.   So that's out there as well. So there there also  is a separate handout in your blue folders. Mine   was on the right side and it's the particular  handout I'm referring to is a one-page uh document   that and the heading says five-year budget  forecast underlying assumptions. As Rob said,   these these are assumptions. Um, we don't we  don't know the answers yet. We don't know for   sure what enrollment will be. The firmst  number on the screen is the increase in   your operating plan. That's that's the one  we do know. Um, when we get into inflation,   um, we're just basing it over the last few years,  projecting forward. Uh, for an example this year,   we we projected back in November, December when we  were building the superintendent's budget that we   would have anticipated 8 million in inflationary  costs. the actuals turned out to be 8.1. So we've   been projecting pretty well within a year and  we're just trying to build some growth on that.   Um the maintenance and technology um you're  familiar with that issue this year because   you addressed it with with one-time funding per  board of eds request and those two things reflect   um basically the same ongoing situation with with  maintenance. We used to carry a bit of maintenance  

money in our operating budget to to complete the  tasks at schools that don't rise to the level of   our CIP. So, we're not replacing an HBAC system,  etc., but to fix things in schools over many,   many years as we've made budget reductions in the  past, that money was stripped out and in 2018,   it was gone. and the board of ed made a commitment  to try to offset it by uh using on an annualized   basis some surplus money some fund balance to  shift over into a capital project which you   authorized and we're grateful for that and we  we've been doing that since 2018. This year we   reached a place where a fund balance was sort of  uh spent down to the bottom of of the board of eds   policy or what Gatsby 54 recommends that we carry.  And so that's why the request came to to you this   year. uh technology that one million we spend more  than that obviously on tech on uh technology that   one million kind of reflects the cost to refresh  post pandemic where we inflated the the number   of devices as students started having um onetoone  devices so you know I want to say this especially   for maybe Ted in the room the way we're treating  this in this display is an assumption that maybe   this one-time request might carry forward into  the future and so that two and that one would   not yet be something necessarily that you had in  your plans. I suppose a different way to look at   it could be if if that if those funds could ever  be embedded back in the operating budget then they   wouldn't be showing there as an increase every  year. Um however one way or the other it's going   to show up. If you embed it back in the operating  budget then it's going to be there in that year   and the in and the um the increase you have in  your plan is going to grow from that number. So,   I'm not it may be a distinction without a  difference, but we did want to make that point.   And then I want to say on compensation, that's  very much an assumption. I'll say this for you and   for our friends from the union in the in the back  of the room. That assumes for us a step in 2% per  

year. And as you know, we must mandatorily  negotiate with our five unions. And so,   they may have different feelings on what would  be an appropriate about amount of compensation   in a year. We just wanted to use an amount that  we thought was reasonable for discussion. It in   no way signals a commitment one way or the  other and it certainly doesn't signal that   we have negotiated with any of our unions. We we  just tried to pick a number we thought was going   to be generally acceptable for most people for  discussion purposes. It also would would line up   fairly nicely with the amount of compensation you  have in your plan for county employees in those   years. So sort of some balance that way. And so  this is just the conversation the superintendent   and the board wanted to have starting this  year and into the future. Um on that handout,   if you look at kind of the bottom the bottom  sentence there, what this is showing us at least   with these assumptions is that our overall growth  state and county revenue is going to grow at just   above 2% but our expenditures would be projected  to grow at almost 5% and so we're facing you know   challenges in in the outy years as well. Um,  so I think we'll I think the superintendent's   intention is to continue this conversation through  the future budget cycles as well. John, I just had   one question and these assumptions are important  to me. So the 2% a year assumed grow 2.2%. Where   does that come from? It's the combined percentage  growth uh projected growth of revenue for the   state and the county. So state states that 0.5 Rob  about that. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you if you tallied   up our total operating budget and the total  projected revenues, what does that percent of   growth reflect on the total operating budget? It  averages out to 2.2% per year. No, because that's   that's a key. And then the 4.9 is based on sort of  the sum total of the of the expenditures. because  

I they they gave us a history of the budgets  which is great. I love to see the percentages   because it's easier but you know just over time  we look and see the percentages and some most time   it's been well excess of that. So there's been  lean years but there's been really good years as   well. So I think you knowing what your assumptions  are whats are I've said to my colleagues that is   a key and what are they based on based on  what's coming in what what might come in.   Yes, absolutely, Commissioner. And the other  thing that I'm I'm just remembering now that   the superintendent was pressing me for when  we started creating this was there's we also   run into the situation each and every year  where this has been our experience also,   by the way, where when we propose certain things  for reductions, it's curious. We we sometimes get   one of two reactions. One might be where did  that come from from someone in the community   or someone else in the community may say well  you're just raising that to cause alarm to try either revenue and expenditures balance to make  this balance or we have to make reductions to   make it balanced. So there the likelihood is  we're always going to be talking about some form   of reductions in the out years of our budget  planning unless you know unless this picture   shifts a little bit. And I'll just add that um  and I know I've I say this a lot but I think it   bears repeating that uh during ' 09 to 19 uh when  we were uh decreasing in enrollment every year   um you know we cut over 300 instructional  positions. Um, and so, you know, when we look   at cutting programs now or cutting staff, we cut  all of the low lowhanging fruit from 09 to 19. So,   anything that we need to cut now to balance  the budget is going to hurt. It's going to  

hurt someone in the community. It's going to  hurt a student or or our staff in some way. Um,   because there's nothing left that's not painful  in some way, you know. and and realizing that back   when that was happening in those years, there was  only two counties, two jurisdictions that vote,   Baltimore City and us. In the first year, it was  just us and then Baltimore City started dropping   and that's when we finally got the bill fix. It  wasn't as helpful if it would have been the year   before, but that was bad news for us. Good news  for us now there's 22 jurisdictions in the same   boat. So, we'll have a little bit more interest in  in dealing with that than believe if it had just   if it had been Baltimore City too, it wouldn't  have that fix that fix would not have happened.   But there's a lot in the same boat that I think  will be on our same side with the declining   enrollments and and the budget that you received  which you funded um did come with some reductions   already in place. So we cut 15 teaching FTE and  that's a reflection of declining enrollment. So   in other words, it's been a pattern over more  than a decade now that when we've experienced   declining enrollment, we take a look at what the  student teacher ratio was the year prior before   the decline, if you will, and then say, okay,  to maintain that same student teacher ratio,   how many teaching FTE uh could we reduce and still  maintain that same ratio? So that was 15 FTE were   reduced before the budget made its way to you. And  then we reduced seven FTE in a blueprint program   that sunsets uh on July 1. It was scheduled to  sunset from the beginning of blueprint and we   knew that and so we we made we were able to make  seven FTE reductions there. The the other thing   um you know I'll say it's it's on the handout  as well but for the sake of anyone who might be   watching when Mr. Burke said you know a lot of  what we experience as inflation you would also   experience as inflation as a county government.  uh health care, pension, other insuranceances,  

utilities and fuel. Those things I think  are common. Probably the one difference   um or one major difference like a cost item  for the board of ed versus county government   is special education. And so and the 8.1 million I  mentioned as what turned out to be the number this   year for us for inflation. Um a good bit of that  was was increased special ed operating costs. So,   um sometimes that shows up especially as  um services usually meaning people that are   required as their as our IEP process takes  place with each individual student and this   student might need this extra service as a result  of the new IEP or a onetoone assistant who we call   um student support assistance in our school  system. That number we're always chasing. That   was almost a million. Um, and then we also have to  pay tuition, a portion of tuition when we place a   student in a non-public school outside of Carroll  County. So that increase was about 800,000 this   year. So that there is that a lot of the things  would seem the same and are the same. And then,   you know, and I'm sure you have things that would  be different for county government than a board of   vet, but that's that's kind of the big one that's  different for the for the board of vet. John,   can you explain how it works with prek? If  somebody goes to private prek, I know it's   in our budget. That was trying to explain it, too.  We have a whole slide. Yeah, we have a whole slide   on that if you're if you're willing to wait.  I'll wait on on this slide. Um and I recognize   you can't control when the charter school may or  may not open. The 5 million um it's ongoing. what   percentage is is payroll and will the 5 million  escalate through the years or you think there's   things that will go away and payroll will go up?  So that's a that's a it's a challenging question   at this point simply because there's some things  we don't know. First I I'll tell you that their  

plans are underway to open for the 2728 school  year. So that's what they're now targeting and   they're working hard on that. I'm aware of that.  Um the the big wild card or the big unknown is   what will be their enrollment. So and where will  the enrollment come from? That's the question.   So if if does it increase your enrollment or just  move it around? If a significant portion of their   enrollment turns out to be students not presently  enrolled in Carol County school, public schools,   homeschool children, parochial school children,  etc. for private school children in the first year   that's cost that we have to sort of bite off but  then after that September 30 for the subsequent   funding years those students would be in our  enrollment count and so it would sort of catch   up for those students um for our for students  who are already enrolled in our schools we're   already receiving that student funding somewhere  embedded in our budget and then as terms as you   know largely that's going to be personel I'll call  Mr. Kyler, but they have like the structure of and   I might have to call in at O'Neal if you have a  lot of questions here. The structure of the public   charter school law is that as an operator of a  charter school, they can make some choices that   that we can't make as an overall board of ed. So,  they could have different class sizes. They can to   an extent they can control their costs differently  than the school system as a whole. They could be   willing to have larger class sizes and fewer  staff, for instance. Not I'm not saying that's   what they probably intend the opposite in fact but  but they have some flexibility to do some things   differently that can manage those costs. So it's  that first year where we'll now know a lot more   importantly we'll know their enrollment and where  those students came from and then that'll so for   now five million each year don't don't you don't  know that you can save you don't know that it's   going to increase. Yes that's what I would say for  now. And do you have any idea how many students I  

mean my hope is that we bring students back to  Carol County that kids are as you said they're   somewhere else or they're homeschooled they will  come back into this this system and then the next   year we'd get it. What would it take? How many  students does it take to get up to break even?   Do you know break even on our because the more  they bring in then you're getting per people   spending for them then the following year. What  would would it take you know? Well, we've been   losing about what 400 a year this year we did.  Yeah. But if we were to bring people back or   keep them from leaving or whatever. I mean, some  of it is enrollment growth just natural and some   of it is people are not want to get to something  else and no choice. If you brought those children,   how many would it take new kids to break down  the five million? So they have a determined plan   and so they intend to open with 280 students and  then grow to 360. So they they they'll open with   a certain grade band and then phase in a couple of  more grades. So they intend to open with 280 and   phase up to 360. If they open with 280 that would  offset twothirds of the enrollment decline we   felt this year. And how much would it offset the 5  million? You don't tell me how many depends on how   many of those students aren't enrolled in Carol  County today. If a 100% of them are not enrolled   in our schools today, then that would be to the  good. All of that money would be to the good in   the next operating budget. It would also help us  the schools are hitting the APFO adequate public   facilities that it would solve that problem, not  having to make an investment that we could bring   that down and not have to make the investment for  a while. Yeah. Depending on where those students   live. Yeah. And they have by law they have to  recruit within the total geographic boundary of   Carol County. What is total if you can tell me  what what's total enrollment now and does that  

include prek? The funded amount is 25,636 for  fiscal year for the fiscal year we're ending. Um   and that does not include prek which is funded  separately. I'm looking for sex in the room.   the the the funded amount the the funded  enrollment from the state 20 25363 does not   include prek correct they fund pre and I I do have  a slide to uh commissioner Kreb's question later   that sort of shows you just the public or the  not I'm sorry the private prek enrollment but   they the state funds prek on a different per pupil  amount and that's what that's what you're feeling   when Ted's complaining about the bill he's getting  from the state he's making us aware of Ted never   complains. It just makes us aware, right? It's a  It's Well, I don't want to jump ahead. It's It's   like your little piece of blueprint. That's how  I view that slide. We have a couple of capital   slides that Mr. Pro was going to present and then  we'll come back to the private prek question if   that's perfect. Thank you, Mr. Pro. Uh, thank  you. So yeah, the two slides to bring everyone   up to date on where we stand at the capital um the  CFP process both locally and uh from the state's   perspective. So for the commissioners, this is  not this is uh news that they just received on   Tuesday from Mr. Zeleleski and uh the good news  is that we uh that the funding was provided for   uh for the feasibility study for for Liberty  High School. Um that will allow us to determine   what the options are on that site. uh we may put  together an edspec committee we can get moving on   the process for for Liberty to to get that uh  so we we understand exactly what it is we can   and can't do given given the site constraints and  also the inclusion of Centry High roof and the uh  

Piney Ridge uh HVAC so uh so we can maximize state  funding with assuming that the uh the board will   be seeing an educational facility master plan in a  few weeks and the recommendations that we're going   to make regarding uh freedom in Sykesville will  uh the the the inclusion of that money will allow   us to maximize state funding. We as it stands  right now without getting ahead of what the board   is going to see in a couple of weeks uh the data  isn't directing us in any different direction from   from what we've been talking about. So uh we're  we're uh so we so those are were terrific. That's   what we asked for. We and we we appreciate that.  uh when we look at the uh the broader questions   of the uh the viewpoint on modernizations, I'd  like to talk about the state budget first and then   then we can kind of roll back into that into that  discussion. So the um if I have the next slide,   sorry, sorry. So yeah, so in general the state  recommended uh recommended fully our FY27 uh   request, which is which is good news. um except  that the there's a there's a portion of the   formula that that defines how much we get called  the enrollment enrollment growth and relocatable   classroom program fund. Uh and it looks it appears  that based on information we received last week   that that will be reduced by at the moment it's  assumed it's about $3 million. the to temper that   a little bit. It appears that um that there is  some recalculation being done at at uh by the IA   staff that may affect that. So, we're not hanging  our hats on the 3 million. We're not saying that   that's where the money that's the full amount  that's we're going to that'll be reduced from the   current recommendation at the state. Um so, we're  hoping that that will be be somewhat less. Now if  

if that gut does uh occur, whatever money that is  uh reduced from their from their recommendation,   we will be uh asking them to take that from the  Caroltown HVAC project, which is our number nine   uh uh prior priority. That should still leave  enough money in there where we can get underway   on some on design and whatnot on the project, but  we're we have to wait to see what those what those   amounts are. So there there's a bit of an unknown  there. Um, but I but I think the the really the   broader question in all this is is uh is how we're  going to fund getting back to modernizations. How   in the future are we going to fund uh these these  large modernizations? We've got a backlog that   that's not a uh a secret of any kind. But uh the  first domino that has to fall is that the state   is has got to participate before we can ask you  know the county to participate. And the the issue   for us remains that the state funding just isn't  keeping up. Um there's a a chart in your packet   that we put in there. Um Maryland CIP funding  history. Mr. Kane is terrific at this sort of   thing. Um, and really without getting into all  the the details on the big section on the chart,   but the but to look at the the last two columns,  the the funding since 2000 uh 2001 allow in 2001   it allowed us allowed the state to build about 2.8  million square feet of space. Uh today that's down   to about a little less than 800,000 square feet of  space. So it's a quarter of what of what we could   have what we did what the state did overall uh 25  years ago. It hasn't grown in any substantive way.  

There are uh pockets of money, pools of money uh  that have been allocated or dedicated to certain   um certain specific uh issues that that that  the state is interested in resolving. Many of   those don't come our way. we've we we get some  of it. Don't don't get me wrong. It's not that   we don't get any, but we do uh for the most part  that doesn't help us very much. So, the biggest   uh issue for us is is the state funding. It's it  hasn't grown. It hasn't gone anywhere in uh you   know the the one rec will recognize that the bill  tolearn act funds uh were pro allowed us to build   uh east middle at the same time as as modernizing  career in tech without that built to learn money   that never would have happened. Now if if it's  true that there's a a built tolearn act 2.0   know uh in in the works that would be great and  you know if that would be like Christmas day and   we'll thank Santa for the money but that's not  something we can depend on. It's not a way to   make a 10-year plan without having this this this  capital money more uh more consistent growing and   more consistent so that we can plan. Um so that's  kind of where we we stand at the moment in you   know FY27 looks good. you know, this is this  is good, but looking out into the future and   having to deal with the modernization backlog  that we have, we're going to need some we're   going to need the state to step up uh before we  come and ask the commissioners to step up. So,   that's where we stand. So, the 300 million and the  general state CIP doesn't build what 300 million   built 20 years ago, and that's a big problem, and  that's been a long identified problem. The current   comproller just released a report not that long  ago and if you want to sum it up in a sentence  

it's that the state needs to increase that number  more than 300 million. Um I remember under the   Hogan administration they formed a commission led  by COP the COP commission. Well, but there's that   too, Nancy. Um um you remember there was a there  was a full commission the IEC had this study for   over a year and the conclusion was the state CIP  needs to go dramatically up and it and it hasn't.   And until that happens, our best hope is when the  state does sort of those one-time funding programs   like like the bill tolearn act a few years ago.  We we essentially heard in this general assembly   that there will be a bill tolearn act 2.0 if you  will that the 27 general assembly would enact.   And if that's the case with the commitment you  just made to Liberty as a modernization project,   we would very much be in line to be shovel ready  when that funding comes out. But those have tended   to be well first of all they've tended to have  only occurred one time so far and they tend to   be things that don't repeat. Uh they identify an  alternative funding source for the moment but not   a permanent change to that to that general CIP  number and John as you know with East Middle   and Ray informed me of this you guys were ready  for Bill to learn been ready we probably would   have missed out. So being in that queue when that  time comes is important. And there are some other   things we we could be talking about as well, but  that is really important so that you're not on   the back end of the money. We were on the front  end. They were very pleased with how we operated   that program. Um Maryland Stadium Authority.  It went very smoothly because we do a good job,   but we were ready. And and that's unfortunately  the way the state works, whether it's with roads   or schools, is is getting that stuff in. And even,  you know, there's always a little bit of, well,   the new money might come, but each year there's  always about 10% available for different things   to pop in. And there's also people that give  up their their schools because they're losing   enroll like we just gave up. We didn't get state  approval for these two projects, but if we had  

and backed off of it or they wouldn't that money  would go back into the pot that that's happening   for other school districts. So that means, hey, if  we're ready for another roof or two or something,   we maybe could slide that in. And when you're  talking about we're at 57 cents on the dollar now,   Alex said this year it might go back. We were 54,  now we're 57 cents on the dollar. That's really   good. So we we want to be ready if that occurs  to keep trying to get some of those roots or   some whatever these smaller systemic projects are,  get that out of the way, then it opens it up for   something else. So there there are opportunities.  So, I think we're trying to position ourselves to   to be as ready for those as possible. And with  East Middle, there there was some intention. We   we knew that that was coming like the county knew  that that was coming and we wanted to be there. We   were in fact so ready that I believe they approved  that project before they actually approved their   own procedures for administering the bill tolearn  act, which is probably a good thing that we,   you know, we sort of beat the procedures. Also,  when built tolearn was done, it was for the big   counties. It was really for Montgomery, Prince  George's, and the bulk of the money went to   that. There's been a lot of money's going to the  smaller poorer counties, the ones that are middle,   the middle counties, I call like the Harfords and  us and we're the ones that have been missing and   I think they acknowledge that. So, I'm hoping  that the next round that we all remind them   that the last money sort of we we happen to take  advantage of it, but it's got to focus on those   counties that were not really um the recipients.  We happened to get East Middle, but the bulk of   the money went to the beer counties and they  were they were growing. Hopefully, we'll have   more opportunity on the next round because we've  sort of been we that type of county has been   um not contained or focused on for the other  rounds. And that's been an ongoing I guess this   will sound like a criticism of the state. I don't  necessarily mean it that way. It's factual. Even   though that $300 million has number hasn't moved  for the general CIP other than built to learn,  

the state has done additional funding programs.  Um the enrollment growth and relocatable program,   the healthy building, healthy school fund. those  programs um always start out with the big seven   counties getting their allocation first and then  a total overall remaining numbers aortioned out   to the remaining counties generally by your  enrollment but not always. Um and you know Ray   said earlier it's not that we've never benefited  from any of those funds. We have but not at the   level that that would really move the needle. Um,  there's also the cash flow issue to, you know,   it's not on the screen, but the state will meter  out money over time, which means in the meantime   to keep a project going, we have to turn to you  to say we need the cash to make this continue to   go. They're eventually going to pay their bill,  but they may not pay it for six years, you know,   spread out over six years. So, that's something  that Ted and Deb and others have to think about   over here as well, like where does that money  come from in the meantime? The last slide is   the private prek and I will do my best here. Um,  so this is I was saying it sort of kiddingly but   not this. This is sort of in my my view of the  world this could have been titled welcome to the   blueprint or your little sliver of blueprint.  And um I want to commend and thank Robera and   Deb and and Ted. Um they have been immersed in our  blueprint world for uh the last year off and on.   um they joined us as members of a work group we  had on blueprint compliance and and came to all of   the well as many of the meetings as they possibly  could and participated and probably learned way   more about blueprint than they ever ever wanted  to. But we really appreciate having them having   them involved with us in that process and and  hopefully maybe maybe they learn something along   the way and this will at least my first pass this  will make some sense to them if not to hopefully  

everybody. you get the bill for private prek  students in Carol County because they're not this   this is just the state's logic. They're not CCPS  students and the goal of blueprint was to increase   public school enrollment and then private prek  enrollment at at the same time. The board of ed or   the school system's responsibility in the state's  eyes is to do everything we can to encourage and   incentivize and in and increase the number of  private prek providers who participate in the   blueprint program, but they're not our students.  And so they view you as the funding vehicle   because there's a local share for every blueprint  funding program. And this is the kind of work that   that the three of them were involved in with us  over the last three years. And you fund above   that share. And so it never becomes a discussion  point here for us with you. But anytime there's   a state increase in the per pupil amount for any  program, and there's been a significant one here,   um the state funding goes up, but so too does  the required local share. Now you fund at a   level where we don't have to come back to  you and say we need more because of that.   But the increasing local share, so the  state share grows and the local share grows,   that limits the board of ed's ability to  use your money as freely as they once did   um on their own general priorities that may  be not specifically part of blueprint. Okay?   And and so that's why we ask for more money  because with every passing year of blueprint   that the targets go up in the law, the impact  on the local share of funding in all of those   programs also changes, which which means less  money, even local money, is available for the  

board of ed to do whatever other priority they  might have that's maybe not so blueprint specific,   compensation in general, etc. In this case, you're  getting that local share directly yourself and so   the state has changed the per pupil target each  year. And in fact, the numbers that show for um   27 and 28 far exceed what was originally enacted  in the blueprint law when it passed first in 2020.   Part of the state's response to why aren't the  private prek numbers growing at the rate we   thought they were going to do under blueprint  was to say well we must not be incentivizing   them enough to want to participate. So we'll  we'll dramatically jump that per pupil target   amount in in these two years and then it'll  carry forward after that by inflation. So the   number under blueprint originally, so you're I'm  talking about the original number enacted in 2020,   which would have been through 2033 or 2034 to one  of those two years, never reached 19950. I think   it topped out at like 195 19,500. Their response  to make this go because they don't want to give up   on it was to say let's dramatically increase that  that per pupil amount. So the state share goes up   the lo the local private prek providers get more  money from the state each year but so too goes up   your local share and they're billing you directly  for that local share the last two years. So that's   that's that number changing. Now I heard I  think during one of your recent discussions   cor correctly. Like don't get me wrong, I  understood the conversation. We don't even   know what's driving this number. We don't know if  there are more students or less students. That's  

what's driving your number because there aren't  more students. So, um, in 24 there were 56 slots   and three providers. Three private providers. In  25 there were four private providers and 69 slots.   So, you actually had more students the first year  you picked up the bill. This year you have four   providers and 60 slots. Um, and you're like I  think it was Ted who said, "I have no idea what   this number is going to be next year." We don't  either, but it hasn't moved much over the years.   It's been three or four or five providers. Some  come in, some some go out, but the number hasn't   hasn't moved dramatically over the years, but  you're going to carry that that new per pupil   for the for the future. It's going to be 19,95028  and then it's going to inflate whatever the CPI   is in those other years. That 19950 is going  to go up by inflation. Um the the experience   statewide has been that this program has not taken  off the way the state intended it to. And um some   I think Roberto one day called me and said, "Is  there data on how this is going in other places?"   is and the closest I could get I couldn't get an  actual report but on the AIB's website they have   dashboards and um there's a prek dashboard and  you can get to this number by or get to the not   this number but the how many students there are  by going to their tier one dashboard because prek   students are in tiers based on their family income  level and I I don't remember if that was somebody   asked me that question it may not have been  Robera and when I found their dashboard I could   look county by county I couldn't get a statewide  report. I was frankly stunned to find out that   we were actually in a better position than a lot  of counties that I thought would would be pretty   far down the road. Now, counties like like the  counties you would expect to be pretty far down   the road were no further down the road than us.  Now, it's a small number for us. And to be fair  

to some of those counties, that's thousands  of kids that they're trying to find seats for,   but we're we're not doing any better or worse than  other places. But but that's your bill. It's the   local share of that 19950 times the number of  slots of private prek in Carol County. How many   total prek students are there? Do you you know  that? So there there's about 454 in currently   or this school year in our preks plus the the 60  approximately um in the private providers. And   we have, you know, we have quite a few private  prek providers in Carol County, but most do not   want to participate in the state program because  if they do, if if the private prek participates   and gets this funding, it restricts what what  they're allowed to teach. And so, for instance,   if you're a religious prek provider, you wouldn't  necessarily be able to um to teach the religious   portions of your curriculum. And so, there are  some real issues around why private private preks   would not want to participate in the state. It's  not just religious. They won't even let you say   grace because about two years ago I was on one  of the blueprint implementations with the state   and originally they wanted 50% of prek to be  private 50%. And the author of the bill talked   to before Christmas just about this because I  just was realizing it wasn't really happening   and he didn't realize the low participation and I  didn't realize the other counties weren't doing it   but he was he was surprised and um because it was  always supposed to be 50% private because you want   to keep the private goes but then the whole thing  about the the schools I know I was on the board  

for 20 some years about prek which is a big one  at Wesley Freedom does a great job. you you could   do the religious stuff. When I say religious,  I'm talking about saying grace at at your not   at lunch, you know, that's not exactly, you know,  a religious um they don't want to do that. That's   why they're there. That's why that's the whole  function of why you have it is to bring that that   in. And you could do it before school and after  school, but not during the school day. Okay. Well,   and even the person from MSD that was on the call  said, and I forget his name, you would know him.   He said, "My mother's a a minister and she's upset  with us, too." But again, it was never intended   like that things and that's why they don't want  to do it. They're church related. They get their   free they they want to have something. It's not  like they're giving you they're not getting in   deep into it, but that's their their purpose. So I  think and that that's all over the state. I mean,   we're not the only place that has those. I mean,  there's other areas. Um but the original 5050 is   nowhere nowhere near. You say we're one of the  higher ones, right? And and to be fair, we're not   yet sure what our target is as the public portion  of this. So we and I feel good about what we did.   We took sort of a phased approach to building more  prek classrooms and we're in between sort of in   parts of two phases, but we're going to pause and  make sure we we need to continue that trajectory   in our capital plan because if we build um seats  for public enrollment and those children don't   materialize, it wouldn't make sense to continue  the later phases of construction either. So,   and sometimes it could be for the privates it's  the things Dr. McCabe said also their they their   teachers have to all be on a pathway to  certification. Their assistants have to   be certified. They have to go through a certain  certification of their program and facility that  

could require minor changes to their you know to  their literally to their uh real estate. There's   a lot of reasons why if you already are operating  a successful business, does it make sense to you   to make that change? Um, and in our case, it can  also be we might have seats a available right now,   but the the students who are eligible on the  list, is that okay? Is that convenient for   their parent to drive them from where they live to  that school where the seat is? And that, you know,   those are all factors that don't always work  out. The one limitation you just mentioned about   I think they have to follow the public school the  scales and stuff like that. They they have to have   their own career ladder. It doesn't have to be our  career ladder but they have to have a career. The   only reason I'm asking because obviously part of  the school is going to be the prek that's funded   and then other others if they have three-year-olds  or and then how do you differentiate between your   staff and they try to keep it affordable for  the people that pay in their own way. And if   you have both kinds of enrollment, you've got a  conflict because this teacher's getting this and   this teacher's getting that and you've just raised  the price for the people that are paying their own   way. So I'd like to understand from the providers  what other obstacles there are because we the goal   was 50/50. And we've had like the four we have  today aren't the four we've always had. So some   have come and some have gone. And I don't know  if Nick has any more feedback. Yeah. And I think   the I I think it's the just in general it's the  regulation and requirements. Um and then there's   a supply and demand issue. Our private preks  are in tremendous demand from our families and   our community. Um so there isn't that motivation  to make that transition to do all of to meet all   the you know the regulatory requirements when  there's tremendous demand and and and like Mr.   new had said they're running a a successful  business as it stands and some of the smaller   providers have their own very you know important  uh parts and components to to their programs and  

they want to they want to maintain that and I  think the data says that's what our community   wants and other communities want as well too.  So, um the staff has done all that we need to   be doing about recruiting and informing. Um  but we've we've had providers come on board   um work through it and then providers who have  been candid with us and just said it's the it's   the regulations and all the rules and requirements  are just too much for us to maintain um even with   the funding. So, at the end of the day, the  additional funding may not be worth their while   um to be able to do that. But yeah, we we started  at three, we're at four, and we've had a couple   of change, you know, over time, but um but just  not the, you know, not the interest that that   I think the the law intended. I think that's  it. That's it for us in terms of presenting. So, we talked about the budget, the five-year  plan, the CIP, we have something on our agenda   about a future CIP AIC meeting. Was that something  that I mean, I just sort of it rolls right into   the county CIP discussion. Um, I know all the  realities of school funding, but we got to find   solutions. We have a lot lot we need to do. So,  given that I, you know, I did talk to Alex. Well,   first of all, we went to um, Mako and listened  to his presentation and his presentation had a   theme and I've got the presentation. I read it  again. and I brought it home with me and spoke   with him then and I spoke with them uh recently  and it really was they want school districts   to get outside the box with how they look at  buildings because of the the limitations that   we have and with the declining enrollments with  that space and how what do we do? So I, you know,   I just wrote down a bunch of notes and he said  it'd be nice to have a small group get together   and just him talk about what other people are  doing just there's many different things and  

um he talked about pre that's folks here. Um we  talked about school capacity and you know it's   what it is what it is and we we talked about the  middle school capacity and we'll come back remind   me to come back to the middle school capacity um  special ed you know state rated capacity versus   local rated capacity or functional capacity um and  the middle schools and the team teaching and state   is not going to change from the team teaching what  they do they they make some differences from it   but they're not going to change that there 85%  of utilization and you know that the funding is   based on state ready capacities and So districts  are doing it both ways. Not all do it. Some are   hybrid. What we we were referring to when we talk  about APFO. I think they were referring to having   it in our law. And we put it in our law years ago  when I was on the school board because we asked   them to we asked the commissioners to put it in  the law because of how we were doing the teaching.   So it was a choice that was made. It was an  agreement. But the state they'll they'll deviate   from that sum, but you have to show why. She gave  me the Kent County um they have one high school   I think and they they made an exception a little  bit Howard County if you look on their enrollments   it'll say this is the board of education's like  wish it doesn't say wish but it says right top the   enrollments this is their what they would like but  it doesn't have I don't know that it has in their   APFO like we do that like stops building if you if  you get over this requirement so we've got to talk   maybe we should take it out but then the question  becomes what how would it help you is there other   ways that we can get if we really need space at  like Sykesville Middle. We need office space.   He would like to chat with us about that. But we  voluntarily we the past boards of commissioners   long ago put it in law because our board asked and  Phil I mean so so and we could take that because   it is muddying up the water a little bit for APFO  for building. We just we just did two exceptions,   but we have other ones that may be coming and  we don't want to be overcrowded, but we also,   you know, we they want us to look at space in  the surrounding close by schools and, you know,  

so that's that's sort of forcing us to do that.  So, we've got to talk about that as a board and   then sit with you and say, "Hey, where do we where  do we see this go?" And we have approved two small   ones, but there's some bigger ones coming. And  you know, what does that mean? And what they're   saying is we're not going to pay for schools if  you we're not going to pay for brick and mortar   if you got brick and mortar next door or down  the street in a reasonable area around it. Do   the what you want. So So they're looking for that  because it So they suggested and you might already   do this. Uh he says it's it's too expensive to  build schools and not use all the rooms. Build   a team planning room. These are his ideas.  Um talk to Mary Pat superintendent might give   some ideas what other counties are doing. PreK  additions they're unaffordable on large scale.   not affordable to add prek to every elementary  school. Least efficient way of doing it. Again,   I'm just taking notes. Must have first floor  bathrooms. Harry County has a prek center that   they're they're renovating an old school to  have all prek for four or five schools in the   community. I think it's in Colombia. I'm not Is  it the old Faulner Ridge Columbia school just an   idea for their community? Is one school all prek?  Um he suggested that we have a look at all needs   meeting just like brainstorming with a small group  and then just look at what other counties are   doing. Site may work for there may be a site that  works for a full day preka program. Uh Frederick   is the most coordinated the most readiness for um  whatever they're I guess they're growing a lot.   We need to have a strategic conversation because  we have these older buildings that need renewal.   And I think we've got to do that. years ago, we  were so focused on building new schools when I was   we built six schools in four years, but we were  neglecting the the modernizations back then. One   was North Carol Middle School and they were kept  get put pushed back and back because of building   schools. Now we're like sort of in the opposite  same problem but with an opposite pro. We're not   building new schools. We don't need more seats.  We actually have more seats than we need. They're   just not where we need them. So he understands  that the older buildings need renewal. Um,  

we need to make things easier and simpler,  think outside the box and be flexible. Costs   have more than doubled in the last 20 years.  State appropriations have not kept pace. We   understand that. Um, but you know, if you take the  total number of dollars by the enrollment share,   that's adjusted by wealth. That's what we can  expect. But there is extra money target allocation   plan for eligible projects, which we're trying to  make sure our projects are eligible eligible. And   um the extra dollars could be allocated to other  projects because of what we talked about earlier   that there is that extra 10%. It's always flexible  and someone might let a project go and then it's   available. And if we're ready and I think we're  in a position to try to be ready with some of the   smaller things or bigger things and they have  750 uh million in requests and 300 million to   re to award. Um and he said something about it  used to be able to ship projects around called a   black box. They don't really do that anymore. the  counties have hit a fiscal wall, all counties. I   mean, so it's not just us in this uh um situation.  We talked about the bill to learn act. Um 78% of   it is built out and um many of the counties were  shorted that most of the money went to the bigger   counties. We were very fortunate to get that. U  it was a boost to the CIP by almost $2 billion.   It was a 1.7 billion um and it it had to be spent  within the 10 years. The one good news that I got   out of this conversation is that now they're well  then they included the A&E in the planning costs   which is good. That means they're covering  more of the costs and they they're planning   to do more of that in the future. They're now  counting things that you never used to like with   furniture which that always used to be extra. So  having them participate in that larger amount is   um a big deal. Uh it did say that um because they  were the replacement of East Middle was able to be   take advantage of the ability to learn because  they were ready and positioned early for the   funds needed to be distributed to the 17 smaller  counties. So there were 17 smaller counties in  

the same pot for this little bit of money and we  happened to get it which was wonderful. Um and   they were supposed to issue 2.2 billion in revenue  bonds from the Maryland Stadium Authority. So we   got 16 million dollars this year. We're we're  targeted for the 16 million. Is that right? I   have 7.5 enrollment growth funds and then 8.4 in  project, but you said something about the three   3 million might be questionable. That was the  enrollment growth fund. Okay. Pre session we were   at 8 million and post state CIP we were at five  something. So well this is just a couple weeks   ago. I don't know if it's changed or not. And then  middle schools obviously the IA just revised the   square foot funding capacity utilization. It might  have gotten more. the average project they're   allowing us is seven to nine% larger and being  built. So that gives us a little more. I don't   know if it's going to make us qualify for it, but  I think we've got to discuss you putting stuff on   the plan that is not qualified for state funding  because we're losing out on those dollars. So, uh,   you know, he said we need to modernize policies  to account for changes in use. Every countyy's   different. They don't want to tell us what to  do. ideas. Shift schools 5 to 8. Portfolio of   schools, reassess, consider redistricting, large  maintenance, you know, large maintenance budget,   consider school size and reconfiguration. None of  these are they're all depends on where you are,   what school district, but um private prek to  to push that more. Um and prek could go to   other schools and have like a prek hub in a  in a a school that you is currently there if   they have space. Um and he said we'll know exact  figures for projects by May. Uh and keep looking   at the prek additions. So they talked about in 20  FY26 which was last year we were at 17.4 expected   to come million to Carol County public schools.  Does that sound right? 54 we were at 54% state   participation for FY26. Does that sound right? The  cost share. Yeah. Okay. With the cost share. But  

that that was that was that was good. um at 54% um  annual allocation versus big projects because my   big thing was how do we squeeze in a big project?  We haven't had project this size for a long time   that they participated in, right? And that's what  I'm my goal is how do we do that? Um replacement   or modernization. Um he said a lot of the costs  are now covered design, furniture and fixtures,   additional square foot above the square foot  allocation on the state uh share for Carol   County next year is 57% of eligible costs. So, if  we apply in that year, does that stick with us all   the way through? Like, if we would apply for that,  would that number the year that it's approved for   funding? That's right. Okay. Well, that would be  good. I mean, I'm not sure how that would work,   but because we're going to go down after that.  One thing I'd like to to address in in what you've   brought up is is the topic of redistricting and  and the Sykes, and Freedom additions. you know, we   really don't anticipate having to deal with that  anytime soon since our enrollment is decreasing.   So, um, years ago, we put together the Southern  Area Redistricting Committee. Um, they gave us   some very, very thorough plans, uh, for what they  would recommend. We're not going to have to do any   of those, um, especially if our enrollment keeps  decreasing as it has for the last few years. So   that's really that discussion is off the table for  us. Well, it is for now, but and we have a couple   communities. I mean, one thing you mentioned in  one of your slides is that the deferrals could   cause enrollments to go down. Our deferrals that  don't affect any is one of the slides that was   put out um or in the letter or something. The  deferrals do not affect any students because   it's all for retirement homes and they're over  55. So the stuff that we have it it should not  

the other market rate houses for families are  moving forward. It's only retirement communities.   So that should not affect it shouldn't affect  our students. I mean it shouldn't affect our   enrollments that that temporary that temporary  pause. So anyway they just basically said maybe   consider again talking with them. I know you guys  talk all the time, but just as a group of us to   work session will go ahead one decade and include  the IA, superintendent of schools, facilities,   board president, two commissioners, CFO, whatever  we want just to look at timing of projects, how   he can suggest maybe getting some of these other  things in the out years and um uh how do we align   our current CIP with I asked him about alignment  of the CIP with the this current schedule. Um,   you wrote us back why you couldn't do it. I think  there is a way to do it just because they say they   need. When we look at this stuff, we're looking  two years behind on enrollments. And when we were   growing, we were always behind because we were  looking two years behind. And now we're going the   opposite and we're still, it's not just us. It's  the whole, it's the whole state. And I talked to   Howard County, Kevin Ball, and his, they said  they're there. So, like, we ask that question   all the time. Why can't we change? Why can't  we do things sooner? And I think we can. It's   just a matter of you can be ready. That's because  their report is not due till a certain time. It's   aligned with the state budget. But if we like you  all knew the enrollments in November and you were   telling us, okay, take it off the CIP or we're  going to we intend to do this. But then we were   hesitant because your CIP still said do this. If  you have the availability to do it in the year   that we are acting on the budget and acting on  the most current information, whether it's going   up or down, it makes us make the best decisions.  And I think just because this the state says this   is the schedule we need, does not mean that you  can't give it to us earlier so that during this   budget situation which we're in now, we don't  have your official CIP if that's possible. Well,  

I mean honestly I guess a few things on APFO.  I I don't I wasn't here so I don't disagree,   but my my best guess would be APFO was enacted  as it is in a period of tremendous growth and   that hasn't been our experience for 20 years. So,  we have no real reason to maintain a functional   capacity other than it's in your APFO. So, if  that's something the county would like to change,   that that's up to you. Um, we meet with Alex  relentlessly, but we have no objection to bringing   him up here to meet with you. Um, Mary Pat Fannon,  the last time she put together a workg group,   she asked me if Bill Kaine could participate.  So all our conversations at a staff level are   ongoing forever. But if you all want a work  group, we'll I'm sure Alex would be happy to   come up here on the CIP. I I guess Commissioner  Crebs, really what I was trying to get at and   what we wrote was it's not so much it couldn't  be done, although I I would also argue that,   but it seemed like to me what you're arguing  should happen is happening. We we did forestall   the additions when we saw the changes and  it's a six-year plan so there's nothing not   not getting done because those are on hold. Um  when the superintendent came to you in March 19   she said please move up Piney Ridge and Century  because we're not going to do the two additions   and we won't access state money if you don't make  that change. And you did make that change. So I I   guess it sounds like to me what you're trying  what you're saying you wish would happen is   actually happening. But once we turn that CIP in  before the general assembly, we can't change the   CIP and the CIP goes to both bodies, the state  and the county. And so for the county's sake, we   can't change. So what would be a situation if they  won't again when when you were building schools,  

you had to like look and say where are we going  to build? You had a lot more decisions to make.   Now we're in the opposite situation. So if the  enroll was coming in in September and you're   doing all the calculations, Bill does the fancy  calculations done in November, you got some pretty   good idea by November. So even if we had it by  March officially like you gave us a letter saying,   you know, we plan to take these out, but they were  still in and Ted was uncomfort not uncomfortable,   but it's still your CIP said X. That happened  with another school years ago that was very   problematic. And if the enrollments had caught  up, we would have said, "Hey, the enrollments have   gone down. we no longer need this. So, I've seen  it on the way up and on the way down, the delay of   just being able to have it officially addressed.  And again, in this day and age with everything   technology wise, you can run things. Is it is it  problematic versus a letter that we would have   all the new enrollments? Because when we say we're  losing enrollment, it's not it's different places.   Tony Town's growing. I mean, Tony Town that might  that be might be different than somewhere else.   So even though we're losing net in the system,  it might in different schools be different. So   that's why looking at it more carefully each  year in a more timely way, if possible, would   be helpful. So we're looking at the whole thing,  not just taking out these two projects. I mean,   I think what we can do is is we can't change the  official CIP because it goes through we can't   just, you know, that's a yearly process. But what  we can do is is have that and then have something   on top that says this is what this is what our  CIP is for the next six years. This is what   we're seeing. Your CIP is due to them at a certain  date. Can tell you when they have to prepare it,   right? You know what I'm saying? It doesn't say  you have to prepare it by this date. says you must   have it to us by X. Doesn't say you can't prepare  it by by different date. It's just I there's other   areas that school districts that are looking  at the same thing saying the water just left.

Are you talking about CIP or are you talking  about enrollment projections? No, the enrollment   projections are done in in September. The  calculations are done by November and then   you base that your CIP adjusts for that. So  did you want the enrollment projections in   the spring or the CIP or both? Just it would  be accelerated instead of you do it in May.   Right now you adopt it in May or June. Is that  correct? The educational facilities master plan   in June. In June. So if that if that same plan is  based on the numbers from last September and in   November they're calculated if it could be done so  officially. So we'd have it by March just before   we adopt our budget. So we are really looking at  the most recent versus but we don't know what's   been funded until the general assembly concludes  and you conclude. So it's time pretty good idea   I think. Okay. I guess it would be helpful to  understand what's not occurring. What problem   are we solving by trying to do that? Well, back  when enrollments were growing, we were always   delayed. And this was years ago. We always were  delayed. You knew the schools were overcrowded,   but it didn't show up in the CIP till two years  later. And then as they're dropping, we were not   Manchester Valley High School. They were dropping.  We were using two years old data and everybody's   looking, look at these numbers. Well, if it had  been one more year updated, they would said,   "Hey, these numbers aren't that they weren't there  anymore." And again, that's just it's a history,   but it's the same sort of with Sykesville and and  and Freedom and people want to they're looking   this needs to be done because but it's based on  a year ago, 2024's enrollment that we're still   looking at here today and then we're taking it  off. I don't want to belabor it. I think it could   be in a more timely manner and almost every  county I've talked to with several I've said   the same thing. I talked to make, like, yeah, why  can't we have it sooner? And we keep saying it's   the state's requirement of when they want it. They  want it for the next year's budget. We just want   to have it as up to date as possible for this  year's budget. So it just doesn't mean anything   changes with the state their requirement. It just  means you would have it done sooner if possible.  

The adjustments would officially be made done not  in a letter and it would be done for the whole   county of what your needs were. So we'd have the  most recent things. But this the CIP can change   depending upon a need of the school like HVAC the  roof if we do see a projection of a mass increase   in one particular area where we might need to look  at possibly putting an additional one. So those   things can change at any given time. I mean any  given time a meteor could fall through a school   roof and that's something we would have to take  care of immediately. um an HVAC could go up and   that has to be taken care of immediately. Yeah, we  can. That's why we have like our calculations and   our scores where every year we get updates on this  school is going to have to move up because we're   noticing this is going to be a greater need of a  modernization or an improvement that needs to be   done. And but those costs can change too. I mean,  we saw that with East Middle. You know, we had an   estimate of how much everything was going to cost  and unfortunately things happen where it's like,   well, there's a massive amount of rock, so that's  going to cost a little bit more money. Even with   projections, I mean, yeah, it those things  can change from time to time, but the CIP that   that's that all that's all comes from the state.  That's a lot of times the state either says yes,   we're going to participate or no. And like you  brought up with Man Valley, that was one of the   biggest issues. There was supposed to be this  mass amount of growth and then it ended up not   happening. So I don't want the county to go back  into another situation where they're stuck with   flooding the bill because the state goes, "Well,  never mind. Now your projections have changed."   But I I don't believe this. You're making that  point. We want to use the most up-to-date numbers   that we have. If we're using two-y old numbers,  they're not up to date. And if an HVAC comes up  

that's not on the list, we have HVAC's listed for  the next 10 years and and roofs. If some emergency   comes up in between, we might have to juggle and  switch them around. But um that usually is not   usually preventive. If it doesn't, you just switch  two projects around. But we've got them built in   the roofs, the HBAC's based on what you believe.  They don't usually just crash. We get 10 We   usually get a decade extra out of these uh roofs.  I just think about it. I think it would just   um conceptually be a little bit um easier. So,  we're we're still doing budget stuff, but maybe   during the summertime, the next few months, it  would be nice just to sit down, see what some   of these other counties are doing. All I know is  I can't make the state give us I can't make the   them put more money into the total. I just want to  position ourselves for as much as we can working   with them because sometimes they do have extra  and if they see that we're doing we're trying   to use our stuff effectively um we will look favor  be looked favorably upon and then we will um maybe   get another slice at something to move some more  things forward so we can do some more projects.   So I think maybe the idea of a study group as  was suggested maybe a couple of us couple of   you looking into these issues a little more in  depth is a good idea and uh because I know that   our time is rapidly running out here. Does anybody  else have anything that you'd like to bring up in   the last 15 minutes that we have? I will say that  um I had conversations with two of my colleagues   already to to answer Commissioner Krebs. I think  um Dr. Malvo and and Miss Zimmer would be ideal   additions to that group if you are able to meet  with Alex Donahghue. Just just so that you know,   I just want to bring up one more thing and I hate  to keep blabbering this stuff, but I've been on   both sides of this issue and I I I know how to  play the game with the numbers and you quote   things and it's election season and people are  quoting that you know they we're 24th in funding   in for people funding and that's the chart you put  in the chart that was put into your thing that I  

guess when you presented the budget. We have been  24th in funding since long time. I mean, we're   almost always 23rd or 24th forever. However, as as  we try to point out and I've, you know, learned,   you know, we are one of the highest in what the  county puts in, and we are ninth or tenth always.   The state, we're not bottom on that many. We're  like 16th and I don't know, but everybody keeps   using this one data point and I I think you guys  do a phenomenal job. As you pointed out last year,   Blue Department, we have the lowest administrative  cost in the state. We also invest in something   called career and tech which is expensive but we  don't like get extra money for that. We don't get   extra funding for doing that but it's a phenomenal  program and we support it. So that sort of dilutes   putting into the other places but we think that's  important. So I hopefully I'm going to try to we   need to put out the data points of what county  is trying to do and how good you are working   with that amount of money. Even though it shows up  24th the state formula has never been our friend   because we don't have as many much in poverty.  English language learners and even um I always   complained because of our industrial tax base  and that that's not true anymore either because   Steve Guthrie got on the um the Kerwin commission  and I was so excited when he didn't stay through   the end but that was the big thing I kept saying  Steve we got to get this formula fixed and I don't   know all the details but I remember him saying  the formula the way that they did it it wasn't   any of the things we thought there was no real  fix to the base so given that I think we need to   just continue to salute the fact that the county  has been I mean I I asked for lots of information   like staff rate county but we have always been  over maintenance of effort except maybe one year   historically and considerably over it and we do  good with it and we try as hard as we can. So I   just want to make sure that people get up there  and say we're 24th in people per people spending.   I know that but look at what the county tries to  do and look at what we do with it. Um, we we're  

ninth or tenth. We're we we I think we shoot above  our uh weight our weight. And I will tell you the   latest figures I saw, we're no longer 24th and per  pup people funding. I think we're 20th because 16   somewhere good. We're still 24. But you know my  point. I mean just let's look at it in in context   and present it. I mean put all the charts in. But  I just when one one person gets something gives a   certain data point. I'm like I'm telling you that  was the same data point years ago and we do lots   of other good things with the money that we have  that the county has always done done a generous   job with maintenance of efforts. Absolutely. Sure.  I think I think sorry yeah to answer that more   broadly I think if you were to have watched that  whole meeting where that was one slide we also   had handouts that showed county funding over there  were a lot of handouts that slide has tended to be   something that the superintendent has used as part  of um a speech she's been giving about managing   people's expectations. Um, so partnered with that  was always a conversation about how the board of   ed cut $40 million over a decade and closed three  schools. But we continue to get calls saying   nothing should have ever changed. You know, like  why isn't the grass cut as frequently as it was 15   years ago? Why? It wasn't a that slide wasn't out  of context to say the county did something wrong.   It was part of this broader discussion during  the budget process and that's what causes the   stress and the strain on not only leadership in  Carol County Public Schools but on the teachers   and the staff in this school system because we  keep doing more or the same with less every year.   And it's it comes to a point and I I talk to the  board about this all the time where we have to  

manage people's expectations. It it can't keep  being the same if we can't keep up. And so um I   want our staff to be able to stay and have their  careers here. And um it becomes more and more   difficult as we keep as we keep our expectations  here for what we expect in student achievement.   Um yet we have fewer of those resources that we  had in the 90s. And you and remind them that you   guys were the first one of the first to get to  the 60,000 minimum moved two years early. And   half the counties as of a month ago and half the  counties have not met that. And we all and I I   keep saying this, but when we compare ourselves  to other counties, you got to compare apples to   apples. You want to work in Montgomery County,  you can't live there. My daughter worked there.   Nobody lived there because it's so expensive. They  have more resources to put into it. So, correct.   You know, if you want to drive an hour to go to  work, you might have to do that. So, we've got   to be realistic to what our folks can afford. We  So, I'm just saying those anecdotal things you can   do. I can drive an hour and go somewhere else and  make more money in DC. But, it's just I think we   do have good effort and I want to continue to have  good effort. We also want to be able to pay for   doing some of these school projects. And we just  modernized Kuran Tech, which is your guys came in   today without the tiny homes. Really, really  exciting things going on. I'm proud of that. All right. Anything else for the good  of the order? Hearing nothing. I need   a motion to adjurnn. So moved.  We have a motion. Do we have a   second? Second. All those in favor? I.  We are adjourned. Thank you everybody.