City Council - Regular Meeting

Okay, we will call this meeting to order.

Welcome, everybody. Thanks for being here. We always start with a prayer pledge, so tonight Councilman Wilkie is going to pray for us, and then Amber Ray will lead us in the pledge. So, Councilman Wilkie.

Our dear Heavenly Father, we're so very grateful we're able to be gathered here in this room and we're so very grateful for this wonderful country we live in and this state and the wonderful city of Cedar City. Father, at this time we ask thee to please bless the people of Nepal and China as they're going through their natural disaster that has occurred that they may be able to find comfort and be able to find those and rescue those that are still living. Father, we ask thee to please bless us in this meeting that we may have a good quorum, that we may be able to discuss the needs and the wants of the citizens of this great city, and be able to listen to what they have to say, and take those things into our hearts, and make the best decisions that we can. And we ask these things in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

Thank you both. We'll just jump to it.

Mayor, I would move that we approve this agenda order for this city council action meeting and the closed session. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Thank you. Okay, first, don't have anything listed under mayor or council staff business, so we'll go to our consent agenda.

Mayor, I would move that we approve the consent agenda as outlined. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, fantastic. Look at that, seven off the list. We're cruising. There you go. All right. Action agenda number eight is to consider a resolution to amend the consolidated fee schedule for our water meters. Anything new there, Matt?

My Baker Water Department, nothing's changed. Same as last week.

The only reason we're bringing back to action is because it's a resolution, right? It's a resolution, yeah. So I'd make a motion that we, unless you guys have a comment, that we approve the bid for the waste, I mean, accept the resolution to amend the consolidated fee schedule for the fee for the water meters.

I'll second that.

I have a motion and a second. Roll call starting with Councilman Phillips.

Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Okay. Thank you, Matt. You only have one tonight. He's like, I'm out. Bye.

All right.

Number nine is to consider approval for a bid for the wastewater treatment plant expansion study. Jonathan.

Jonathan Stathis, City Engineering Department. It's okay, I just had a statement that I'd like to read on behalf of the review committee.

You bet. That'd be okay, Mayor? That'd be fantastic.

The review committee for the proposals consisted of five city staff members. The proposals were reviewed and scored according to the criteria set forth in the request for proposals. Stantec's proposal contained the full scope of work, including the required sampling, data collection, model calibration, and alternatives analysis. Corolla's proposal included a lower cost approach with a reduced scope of work by proposing to use available data, an existing model, and previous experience in evaluating alternatives. The city's proposal process includes an opportunity to ask questions and get clarification prior to the proposal deadline. When questions are asked, the city can then issue an addendum, if needed, to all of the consultants. There was one addendum issued during the proposal process but it did not address scope changes regarding eliminating the sampling and foregoing the model calibration. The addendum process is important because it ensures that all consultants are submitting a proposal that allows the city to do an apples to apples comparison. Based on the results of the committee's review, one of the reasons Stantec received a higher score was because their proposal included all of the tasks needed to perform the required scope of work. Stantec's proposed number of work hours appeared to match the required effort to complete the study based on the scope. In addition, the plant operations staff feel that it is important to obtain current sampling information to make sure that the most complete and current set of data is being used to calibrate the model and complete the study. The results of this study will guide the implementation of new infrastructure projects at the plant for years to come, which could cost tens of millions of dollars. Even with Stantec's higher fee, the cost of this study is a very small percentage of the costs that will be needed in the future. The city standard agreement states that the fee is a not to exceed amount with the city only paying for invoice cost expended. We appreciate the city council's consideration of the committee's scoring of their proposals. We just wanted to read that and just reiterate that the committee's recommendation was to award the proposal to the Stantec.

So I have a couple questions. In the folder, Carollo responded to some of the concerns that were expressed last council meeting. Did that alleviate some of your original concerns, those responses?

So we're still concerned about getting the current sampling.

So don't you have the samples and you have them, we provide that data, right?

We do have some of the data. I'd maybe defer to the plan operators to maybe address that a little bit more. Based on discussions with the plan operators, there is some data that we don't currently have that we would need to get during the process.

And is it a two and a half, three month turnaround like they suggested in the email response?

I don't know the answer to that.

Okay, Jeff? Jeff, yeah, if you have the answers to that question.

Well, as he comes up, I want to add one so he can answer this at the same time. When we say samples, are we talking volume samples?

I mean, parts per million samples? Yeah, so... It depends on what samples they want and how frequent they want them. Mr. Ashcroft is here.

Didn't we specify that in our RFP of what samples we were looking for as we look to expand the treatment plant?

We didn't. Did we? I don't recall anything about specific samples. They're generally going to tell us what samples they want for their plan.

So we're asking them, we're saying that we're concerned about samples and we didn't include that in the RFP of what sample. Help me understand this.

You have to use the samples to profile the current plant and its operation. You can't use data from 10 years ago to build a model of how the plant is running now.

But we do know how much went through the plant 10 years ago and the amount of solid waste and all that stuff. I mean, we take a log every single day, do we not, if it goes through the plant? So that information is current, it's up to date, correct?

Our information is current and up to date. But they may ask for samples that we don't run, like phosphorus or, I don't know, maybe more frequently metals. I don't know what they would ask for.

How hard are those to obtain?

Within weeks. So it depends, if you wanted a three-month set of samples, it would take you three months. When we send them out, there's a number of samples we can't do in our lab, because we're not certified to do them. So we have to send the chem tech forward, and when we do that, you're looking at one to two weeks return time, usually a week.

Okay, Councilman Phillips.

I also wanted to know that there was an item brought up last week, and Jeff, you may not know the answer to this, but maybe somebody can. Does this study allow us to look at new technology, new methods? Because there was a discussion about satellite wastewater treatment facilities. And I would like us to, if we're looking to expand over the next 50 years, we need to look at all technologies.

Do you want to answer that, Jonathan? My understanding was yes. They are going to look at all of that, all of those options. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Okay.

I'll bet.

Yeah. Councilman Schmidt.

Okay. So, Scott, one thing, a little clarification. The volume is really not a sample that really, really matters a whole lot. It's the makeup of what is in the fluids that are coming in and out of the plant. We can't tell that? We can't test all of them. The volume is changing. but the volume is not the samples that they need. The samples that they need is what makes up that volume.

Right now. Honestly, we don't know what they're going to need. We have the basics, biochemical oxygen demand, total spend at solids, chlorine residual, things like that. We have that, but if. Not done. Generally, there are things outside of our normal samples that they will ask for.

So maybe the question I think Robert's trying to get at with that that you were helping clarify, Phil, before you ask another one. So each of those companies, if the RFP just said, you're going to tell us what samples you need, why would we believe that both of them would not do that?

I don't know. We're basing a lot on that question. Yeah, we are. So I was reading on Corolla's statements that they put out, and on number one, it said the points we were making in the proposal were that first, we have a model for the city's process already developed, so we do not have to do this again, and secondly, It generally takes a long time to collect a meaningful set of samples, say a month's worth, and have those sent to the lab and get the results. This can take up to one, one and a half to two months, when we only have three months to do the whole plan. We believe there is not time to do meaningful new sampling, so we propose to use your most recent plant process data the city already has in our modeling and analysis. This will reduce costs and more importantly, allow us to meet the schedule. So right now, it seems to me like Corolla's really Some of this information, they're basing on what the plant was. When was Corolla last at our plant?

2015 is when the upgrade finished. That data was probably from 2013, 2014.

Okay, so they haven't been to the plant in quite a few years. When was Stantec at our plant last? About six weeks ago.

Okay, and what were they doing? They just wanted to walk around and have a look at where we were now and ask us what kind of problems we were having and things like that.

Okay. Well, I think that's pretty important, the relationship that you guys have. I'm nothing against Corolla, but right here, if we're going to do this, we need to have current information.

I don't think they're suggesting they're going to use old information to have a new study. I think what they're saying is they're going to use the knowledge they have and then implement it with new information to come about. And I'm getting that from the email that was sent in a response to last council meeting.

We have to go back to the very beginning in this. We have a request for proposal. We have two proposals. One of the proposals that was given to us meets all the requirements in our request for proposal. The other one did not. That's why they were scored that way.

So going to the rubric on the proposals, do we ever only use 10% on the cost? That's my biggest concern here is three times the amount. 10%, I don't know I've ever seen one that low on a rubric for the weighting of the cost. Usually they're 70, 80% and that one was around 10. And so there's something different in that than, and maybe that's normal, I don't know.

That's for engineering.

I would say that when we're evaluating proposals for professional services, having that cost be a relatively small portion of the overall scoring is pretty typical. In fact, I would say what is more typical outside of our organization is that cost isn't a factor when you're selecting professional services. and then you negotiate the final scope and cost after you have selected the consultant. But our current process that requires that we request the cost, yeah, the cost, while important, isn't as important as is this consultant qualified to do the work. and all of the other categories are really getting to that issue of is this someone that we you know can be confident can come in and accomplish this work and so so that's why the the cost is as low as it is and i understand cost not being a factor if there's life and you know the quality and but i i they've both done this this same work and so i don't understand

the huge disparity in the price, to be completely honest.

Councilman Wilkie.

Do we have a representative from Carollo here? Yes. Okay. Are we allowed to? You can do whatever you want. You guys okay with that? Absolutely. Okay. You want to come up? Mr. Ashcroft, right? Yep. Ashcroft. I'm Craig Theron Ashcroft. I apologize.

I like to tell people that the Theron Ashcroft Observatory was named after me, but it was actually named after my grandfather.

So really quick, my quick question having to do with the sampling stuff, can you maybe shed some light on this and where we, I mean, so it sounds like at this point in time, neither company has updated data. You've got older data. They have no data. You're saying, and what we're hearing is that Some people are interpreting what you've said as, we're gonna use the old data, and obviously we know the other people are gonna have to get new data. Where are we at? What's really going, what's your opinion?

Our position, our opinion was, we know your plant, we designed your plant, we helped the startup and training of your operators with the plant. We know the data that you are collecting. And our proposal was not to use old data, it was to use your current data. And as I mentioned as well in my email, we really need to see the seasonal variations in your data. So we need to see how much it varies seasonally and how much the concentrations vary and how much the flows vary. And so we propose to look at your last one to two years of your existing data that you have and then use that in our model for evaluating the expansion. And we feel that that's adequate data. Now there may be more data that we want to collect going forward, but like PFAS, forever chemicals, maybe you've heard of PFAS, it's an emerging contaminant. Maybe we wanna start collecting PFAS data, but we really don't have time in three months to collect meaningful amount of PFAS data It can be something that can start being collected and can aid us in the future, but for the three month study, it really won't be very meaningful.

And then another question that I have, thank you, by the way, another question that I have is a concern that was brought up. And we see this across the board with all of our, when we bid things out, when one is, when there's a large price, just, you know, difference between the two. And we always have a little bit of a worry about change orders. So what are your thoughts? I mean, are you confident in the scope of work and that... Because that's one thing that.

We are confident and I addressed that in my email a little bit as well. We've designed several other facilities in Utah that are very similar to yours. Yeah. Recently, we've done significant master plans for these agencies that have evaluated the same things that you're looking at. How can we expand? How can we use innovative new technology to maybe reduce expansion costs, to get more out of the facility that we have. And the fact that we've done literally three different studies for other clients that are looking at the same things that you're interested in allowed us to reduce our costs to you. And as far as change orders, a scope of work is given, a fee is given for a specific scope of work. Now, if we add to that scope of work, there needs to be consideration of is there additional fee that's justified, or can we reduce our scope here to evaluate this over here? So if there's an addition to the scope, it can result in a change order, but it's a change order that's justified. We have never gone to a client and asked for additional money when there's been no additional scope of work increase. So that's not something that we ever do. We're not gonna come back to you and say, oh, we underestimated this. We need more money to do what we told you we were gonna do. We're very confident that we can do what we told you we were gonna do and get it done in your schedule, which is very aggressive.

Thank you. While you're up there, Mr. Ashcroft, I mean, you've been in this business for a long time. I don't know how many years, but I believe it was like 37 years. Yeah. So in your opinion, your expert opinion, because this is what you do, what other kind of data, you kind of alluded to it, but What other data would we need to be looking at, do you think, if we look to expand? I mean, what is it that you think Stantec might be doing in getting that maybe you're not or vice versa?

You know, it really kind of depends on if you're going to be varying your disposal alternatives. And, you know, not that long ago we did a study for the city looking at how you could utilize your effluent. If you're looking at groundwater recharge, for example, the state of Utah has very stringent anti-degradation rules when it comes to groundwater. So if you're going to put water into the ground that can contaminate the groundwater, they have very stringent regulations on that. There may be a whole different set of samples that we need to really start collecting and evaluating to design the treatment for something like that. But if you're just expanding to get additional capacity, we don't really think that there's a lot of additional sampling you need.

Okay, thank you, thank you.

I have part two to this question. Okay, go ahead. But it may not be you that answers this.

So I guess my question then would be for engineering or perhaps for the wastewater treatment folks is I think there is some value in looking at data collection because different, I mean summer is very different than winter time in terms of what happens out of the wastewater treatment plant. So I think there's some value in looking at it over a long period of time. My question is, What is the urgency in having this completed in such a short timeframe? I mean, this is going to be millions of dollars to expand. So we are not gonna be going out to redo this expansion in the next six months. This is just not gonna happen. So I'm just trying to understand what the urgency is on the timeframe.

Jonathan Stathis. The timeframe was set forth to try to meet the budget timeline coming up in the next fiscal year. There's one project specifically that we need to find out fairly soon whether we need to move forward with it, and that's at the headworks of the plant. But then we also wanted to see if there's any other projects that we'd like to budget for in the upcoming fiscal year, and also we're in the process of a rate study, and so that plays into it as well, if there's some things that we need to include in that, in the rates, and so.

That helps, thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, John.

Yeah, Councilman Schmidt. So right now, it's my understanding or my impression that we are looking quite closely at utilizing this excess water that's coming off to go to farmer's fields, to be put in ponds, to be pumped out. This is not just a plant expansion. That's not really even why we're doing this. We're doing this because, one, we've got to expand, but two, we're getting a lot of the Water Conservancy District, the council here, We've had several conversations about piping, about putting pumps in, about getting it out, putting it on irrigation fields. And so I think this project entails a whole lot more than just plant expansion. It's to utilize and get the other building that we have on track going. There's actually quite a bit that's coming down the road for this expansion.

So a lot of the expansion pieces for the secondary is already being planned through the Conservancy and a different process.

But we have to do, but they're planning on where it goes, but they don't have... The plant, we have the plant. We have to make sure that what's going, they're taking care of maybe pumps, maybe piping, different areas, but we have to make sure what we're sending out of the plant.

Yeah, but that's already, correct me if I'm wrong, Jonathan, but in the last meeting we had, that's already in process with the UV equipment being added to the secondary, and that's a separate process. I think it's part of this.

And to follow up on that question, was that included in the RIP? That we were going to do that. I mean, if it's not, then it's not comparing apples to apples.

Was that in the RIP, do you recall?

Yeah, there was one section to look at the type one reuse, yes.

And did they both include, they both mentioned it and said that they had, that was going to be part of their thing?

I can't remember for sure.

Oh, okay.

I'm pretty sure Stantec did, but I can't remember about Corolla.

Okay, Jonathan, I got one other question. Stantec tied in with the firm that is doing the reuse study right now, and Councilman Wilkie, you talked about Stantec and the data. They actually did the sewer line master plan, so they have data that's within three years, which they took from the plant and multiple places around town.

I was going to mention right now, Stantec does all our sewer modeling. They did our master flow plan. There hasn't been any complaints. I checked with Randy. I said, hey, how's the response been? He said everything's been going really well. So Stantec's very familiar with us. The thing that I like to pay attention to is the four people that voted or pointed the way that they did or gave the points the way they did, all have a pretty close working relationship with the plant. And so they know the plant, they know those things, and they're professionals, they've been here a long time. I think we need to listen to them.

Jeff Leonard again I do want to add about so they have to tie this study in with the reuse and they have to kind of be separate because like right now we have a phosphorus problem where we have this continuous phosphorus loop and that needs to be taken into account because that's going to affect the reuse part of it so it all has to come together yeah okay so some changes to the plant will happen because of one study and some will happen because the other one so

Cool. Thank you for that.

Mayor, do we have anybody from Stantec here? I just want to make sure if they wanted to say anything, we gave Carollo a chance to speak.

Does not look like it. Thanks for asking. Any other discussion?

Somebody ready to do something?

Well, and I don't want to discount you guys working firsthand with it, but I still think they're both similarly qualified and one's for three times the price and it's a study. We spend so much on those and I know they need to be good, but I think based on both of their experience, they can both get the job done. And so then I go back to the price. That's the big catching point for me, is there's a huge difference. If we were talking a much smaller difference, then we could have this conversation about preference or whatever. And just a few weeks ago, we gave the other contract a low bid because they were the low bid, right? I mean, and had that discussion.

And so I... Councilman Schmidt.

Jonathan, on this contract, how was the contract documents written? Were they written that this would be a point-based award or this would be a low bid award or is this either one? What was their direction in the contract documents?

In the RFP?

In the RFP.

Is that what you mean, the RFP? Yeah.

Yeah. So in the RFP it says, so there's a section titled proposal evaluation procedures. It says the proposal shall be evaluated by Cedar City staff in accordance with the criteria described in the guidelines for preparing proposals. So that's where we go through the points and review it based on the guidelines. And then it says final selection and approval of a consultant shall be by the city council. So it's not real clear exactly, other than just saying that the staff will review the proposals based on the guidelines.

And then they have access to those guidelines?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

So they were given the rubric? Yes. Okay, sorry.

Councilman Gallant. That's okay.

I understand obviously the elephant in the room is just the big gap between one price and the other. I'm having a really hard time reconciling the pushback from the staff that is involved in the processing and managing and the future of the plant in spite of that big delta between the two companies. And this is where I'm stuck. I've had some conversations with Kent, you and I had one while we were up north last week. I've read all the documents and I still am uncomfortable with the explanations from staff as to why they voted that way. Maybe because I don't understand it. I'll be the first one to tell you I'm not a chemist. I don't know how your world works. I'm very impressed with the way you manage it to begin with. But there is this disconnect that is incredibly difficult to reconcile. And I don't know, Kent, I don't want to put you on the spot. You and I had a fairly good discussion the other day. You opened up your thought process. Do you want to share that with us? Or would you rather not?

I'll share just a couple of things. So first off, I think this particular proposal is a good illustration in my mind of why we should be looking at the procurement of professional services differently than how we look at procurement of widgets or construction services. I think that it really should be more of a qualification-based selection, which is what the vast majority of states in this country require. Utah does not, and so Utah gives us the option of doing essentially a bid for professional services. Most states don't, and I think this is a good illustration of where that's problematic. What I'm used to seeing on a professional services contract is that the agency puts out a draft scope to show what it is the agency's hoping to accomplish with that. The proposers end up giving their approach to the work, what they think needs to be done, their whatever innovations they feel like they can bring to the table on that and select what experience they have, right? and a consultant is selected on that basis, and then we look at okay, so we had this draft scope, is this the right scope, and we negotiate that scope, come up with a good scope, and then once there's a scope that's agreed to, then that selected consultant can go ahead and put their hour estimates to it, and we can put our own independent estimate to it, and we negotiate that, and if we can come to terms, then that's who we recommend get the job. That's the process I'm accustomed to when you're procuring professional services. And in my consulting days, any client that asked for a price, we weren't interested in. We did not want to be bidding our professional services. Those were proposals we would just pass on because we wanted to compete based on qualifications and then negotiate from there. So I think, you know, is that always the way we've been doing it? Is it always something that brings about an issue like we're dealing with on this one where there's this big conflict between price and some other issues? No, it doesn't always happen, but this is a good example of how it can happen and one reason why I think our process needs to change for acquiring professional services. So that's one point I wanna make. The other point I wanna make is when I reviewed this, I was one of the five that reviewed these proposals. I looked at these somewhat differently, I'm finding, as we as a committee ended up meeting and as we've met subsequent to that initial meeting, I realized I had a little bit different view on some of this than some of the others did. But in my scoring, when you look at all of the other lines in the matrix, I had one firm a little higher on one line, the other on another, but you take out the cost line, I had them dead even, essentially. That I felt like both of these firms are well qualified to do the work, and the difference to me was that cost line. And that's why my bottom line score had Carollo ahead of Stantec. The other four reviewers saw it differently. And the other four reviewers saw the scope of work that was included from the city in the RFP as being more absolute than I did. I looked at it, I took what Carollo had presented, and in my mind, that was very valid, what they were saying. I could see, in fact, when Craig sent his email, Mr. Ashcroft, with his explanations on those different points, it was, yeah, that's exactly how I read the proposal. That wasn't anything new to me. That was exactly how I read the proposal, and I scored it accordingly. However, I will say I'm one of five reviewers. I have a lot of respect for the process of the evaluation team doing what they do. I have a lot of respect for the opinions of the other reviewers. And so as I told Councilmember Gallan, I can certainly support the overall recommendation. I was part of the team. The team did make a recommendation. To go with Stantec, I can support that. My own review would have gone the other way.

So just as a follow-up, if I may, Mayor, I appreciate the explanation, again, of how the process should work. And I think as a team, we ought to consider that seriously and begin to take steps to change, perhaps, how we contract on the professional services. Having said that, there was a portion of the evaluation that measured the qualifications of both parties if I understand it correctly. So while the process is different, the evaluation took place, correct?

Yeah, that is correct.

Okay, so clearly I think your proposal in terms of how we should go forward will provide even more clarity to the process and probably more sanity at the end, right? It's a different discussion, it's a different process to evaluate, it's much more robust and focused on critical skills and knowledge and experience and so forth, which is what we want. Having said that then, I'm still at a loss.

Here's a question. This is maybe a legal question. Are we able to pivot to that process in this situation?

No.

No, we'd have to redo it. You've got to stick with the process that you put the bids out for. Yeah.

So whether you're gonna change your overall purchasing process to move to a different system shouldn't be a consideration now Because there's a whole other side of the conversation that needs to be interjected besides The engineers opinion that that we just look at qualifications and forget about cost The FAA does that and every time they bring a contract in here. We think they're nuts So that's got to be part of broader conversation so this one to award this contract, please don't venture off into that.

Thank you. Carter.

Unless there's any further discussion, Mayor, I'm ready to make a motion. Go for it. With that, I would move that we award the bid for the wastewater treatment plan expansion study to Carollo. I'll second that.

I have a motion and a second. This one's just, well, we can just do it all in favor.

Fine.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Opposed? Nay. So I got that as a 3-2. Is that accurate? Okay. All right. That one is decided. Next item is to consider disposal of city property and easement to UDOT for the South Interchange project.

Nothing's changed on this. The offers are still the same and it's that strange little triangle piece kind of over by Costa Vida and it's the easement by our pump house next to Maverick on South Main.

Yeah, this is a no-brainer to me.

I would move that we approve the disposal of city property and an easement for UDOT on the South Interchange project with the proviso that the sale of those funds be set aside to cover any unanticipated costs associated with the South Interchange project that the city would be responsible for. Can I amend your motion? Of course you can.

Can I say that we estimate what those might be? the cost and not hold all of it back, but estimate what the surprise might be and just hold some of it back, not all of it.

But we don't know what those are going to be. I know, but we can. My only, continuing the discussion, with the large size of this project, we could easily see a $700,000 who knows what come out of nowhere. So I'm in favor of just letting the whole thing sit there.

And the reality is you can always come back and say, Hey, we've got another need and we're gonna release this to use it.

So we just hold it for now.

Unless the council acts differently. Scott, make your motion again.

So I'll withdraw my amendment to his motion.

Okay, so we have a motion.

And I'll second the motion.

Great, so the motion is to approve the disposal and the easement with the money being held aside. in case there's a need for the South Interchange project if there's a need of overages.

The city would need to be responsible for anything that UDOT is not currently responsible for.

So just to clarify, that stays in the general fund, just stays earmarked is the term?

Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, thank you. Next one is to consider an upsizing reimbursement agreement with BZI Innovation Park for the 30-inch sewer main.

So last week there was some edits made to the contract at the last minute. Those were emailed out to you Friday, I think it was. Sorry, I missed the packet. There were the, so you can go through the document. Everything in blue was new or struck out, was removed. essentially we'll we'll reimburse them over five years at a cost to us of yeah yeah it was a hundred and forty five thousand eight hundred thirty dollars and sixty three cents a year

I understand that BZI has agreed to this, correct? And how about the county? Because the county only has a small portion left, correct?

The county's already paid theirs.

Yeah, except for a small portion. No, they're paid up. Oh, they're completely paid up?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, well, I'll make a motion that...

So, wait one second. To answer your question directly, I have no idea if the county approves it or not. Okay. I don't know. They have to run it through their county commission, just like we have to run through our city council.

Well, there was some discussion at one of earlier meetings that they were waiting to see what Cedar City was doing.

I think we worked through it. We had a meeting with BZI, the county, and us, and we left that meeting with this. So I'm fairly confident, at least from the staff perspective, that they were in line with this.

So Mr. Howell is totally aware? Oh, he's on board. Okay. So I'll make a motion that we... Do the reimbursement agreement with BZI Innovation Park for the 30-inch sewer mine as agreed in the... As written. As written.

Okay, we have a motion. Second. And a second. All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, fantastic. Thank you. We now have our public comment section. So for those that are new maybe to this part of our meeting, you get to come talk to us about anything you want. You have three minutes to do it. I have a little timer that goes off just to be respectful of everybody's time. But you can come share anything you'd like to.

We also have tomatoes that we throw at you if you go past that.

Mayor, could you maybe, because I know some of the comments, you know, one of the people I actually invited to be here tonight, could you maybe preface a little bit to kind of set the expectation of what we're going to be allowed to do and kind of where this may or may not go tonight?

The public comment section, because it's not a public noticed agenda item, the council can't engage with you on resolving a concern that you have. It's really just an opportunity for your voice to be heard to council. And then we can work, if it's an issue council wants to take up, we can work on getting it on an agenda to have it then be public notice so anybody can come and be a part of that discussion to make sure it's a fair and open process, that it's not just snuck up on the public that somebody comes and brings something up and the council makes a decision. So don't expect the council to engage with you because we really can't because it's not a public notice agenda item, if that makes sense.

Thank you, Mayor.

Yeah, thank you, Carter. So anybody that would like to speak, come on up. Just state your name, if you would, at the beginning.

Not a problem. Hi, my name is Leslie Curtis. I just had a quick question. I'm not sure if this is your guys' department, but I noticed this thing in my neighborhood. It's the Iron Hive Project. It's an industrial-size, I think, plastic factory, but it's right in the midst of... residential, it's out towards Enoch, right past the roundabout, you make a right, it's maybe... Oh, so it's all the way in Enoch?

It's in Enoch. If you hit the roundabout, it's not Cedar.

You need to go to Enoch City Council?

Yeah, so ours ends about the bowling alley is where Cedar City ends, and then as you go north from there, it's all Enoch.

So with the tomatoes that you throw at me, onion, cilantro, jalapeno.

And just so you know, if you do want more information, that gentleman right there might be able to grab you.

He'll get you some more information. He's the economic developer for the whole county, so he'll probably know something about it.

He can tell you what's going on.

Great. Okay, thank you.

I'm Will Smith, the poet. And today I would like to share one of my poems with you and let you know that I would like to be a part of anything that you can include me in to make it hopefully better. Yeah. So the name of this poem is I'd like to. I like to see people's eyes light up and enjoy the beauty of their smile when I am doing my poetry thing. It makes me feel so good to share my words which come from God knows where. It is not enough anymore to just create, but to share my words with others is my glad fate. This is year number 54 since my mistress, poetry, came to my door. When she first came, I I was in an angry mood. I grasped her as a drowning man would. I punished her, wrote bad, negative verse. Yet she, like a true mistress, has always been there for me. When misfortune came my way, she absorbed it and left me able to plot on. Hopefully, and with the dawning of each new day, some of my misery would wash away till I, like a true Christian, Was born again. Thankful for all that has been. And looking forward to all that is to come. Thank you, God. And thank you.

Well, thank you. That was a good, unique thing that doesn't happen in council meetings. So you did bring a smile to our faces tonight.

Thank you. I thought it was Thomas S. Monson there for me. He was a little larger.

Welcome.

Thank you guys for being here, and thanks for your time. I'm Steph Nairns. I'm a mom of three.

Stephanie, so what was your last name?

Narens, N-E-H-R-E-N-Z. I'm here to talk about West Canyon Park, which I know is probably like a sore in your thumb at this point. On Friday evening, I just finished a shift at the hospital and I was picking up my older two kids and my four-year-old jumped out of the car and wanted to play for not 10 minutes before she ended up cutting her chin open. and getting five stitches. While she was getting injured, we were helping a mom who had fallen flat on her back while she was holding her tiny baby. My older kids were falling on their butts. It's a slippery park and I know that we all know that. The next day, a kid had the same injury and also got stitches as my four-year-old. I think it's a more eminent problem than we're giving it credit to. I know that people are like, I don't want it shut down and I don't want it shut down either. It's a fun water feature. Um, I have to say, I think St. George has been able to figure it out pretty well. Um, and I know it's rotary club and I know that it's not all on you guys. And I really am here. Like, do we fundraise? Do I have friends? I throw a birthday party tomorrow and they show up with boulders and sands. Like we are willing as parents to do anything to make it safer. But like I said, I work at the hospital, and I see so many kids who have problems where we can't do something about it, but this is something we can do something about. And I think it is an immediate danger, and I don't want to see a fatality before it has to be shut down or fixed immediately.

So thank you for trying to bring solutions to a problem. That is very refreshing, and we appreciate that. And we're aware, and I think we're going to do what we can as soon as we can.

I know you're working on it, but do you know how soon we're working on it?

Last week.

Last week, okay.

Do we have anything on our agenda for next week to continue the discussion?

All it takes is one of you to put it there.

So let it be written. Yeah, I mean, there's probably things, so let's go, can we add that to this?

We're not aware that we've gathered the information that you requested last week.

Okay.

So we would bring that back to you as soon as we get it.

Okay. So we'll put it back on staff then to tell us when we should have it on the agenda as soon as we've got the data.

Okay. Well, what if in the next four days someone does die or a bigger injury does happen?

We can go fence it off.

I know. I'm not scared of that. I know that's really unpopular opinion, but it was like left and right and every parent falling down, every kid falling down. It felt safer before the renovation with the concrete, but it's just not working. And I know that I'm the naysayer and a lot of moms and parents are really mad at me, but I just know I've seen the worst and I don't want to see it happen. I really don't. I mean, we're not St. George, but we're the best city, I think. Amen. Yeah, we are. I think we're better than St. George. And I think we're smart enough to not let such a huge liability sit there like this just because we love crops, we love our water, we love this.

We are working on that, and we are conscious of the dangers that are there. So we're trying to get some data to make the final decision, but we're going to correct you.

We'd rather be safe and have you shut it down because we know we can do better and we trust that you're going to make us happy as moms. and have something horrible happen. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Stephanie. Thank you for coming.

Okay, anybody else?

Jennifer Hunter. I've lived in Iron County for 25 years, all of the cities. I've only been back in Cedar this last year, so I have a couple questions just because I haven't read through all the laws and ordinances.

Well, first, welcome back.

Thank you. Great place to be. Is there a leash law? Dogs have to be on leashes if they're on city streets and parks?

Anytime they're off your own property, they need to be leashed or inside of some type of six-sided container.

Okay, so if I see one not on a leash, who do I call?

Animal control with the police department. Non-emergency dispatch can assist you and get you there.

Do you by chance have that number?

Now you're really pushing. No, but I can get it for you. Yeah, I bet you can find it. Hurry up before the three minutes are gone.

It's been a while since I got my Utah driver's license, but I swear last time I took the test, it's parking 30 feet from a curb. Is that true?

From a corner? You mean from a corner, yeah.

We're testing you tonight. I know, really. It's 30 feet on the approach to a stop sign or stop light. It's 20 feet from the intersection any other direction.

Can we have the police patrol and watch for that? We've got a number of cars by the schools that are at the corner. The front tire is touching the... Crosswalk. Thank you. That word. And you can't see kids and schools back in session. So could that be...

So noted. Thank you.

I've been told there are irrigation ditches that run in our normal sidewalk gutters on the north side of Cedar High School and the west side of the post office. Is that true? They're all over town. They're all over town. Okay. Is it the city's job or the owner's job to keep it clear so that crap's not going into our... Irrigation companies.

Irrigation companies that own them.

The irrigation company will maintain the main ditches. The ditches that go back behind your houses or up to the individuals? No, just in the streets. Okay.

When do they come out and clean those?

It's an irrigation company. I don't know.

So it depends on where you live. We'll tell you which the irrigation company is, and they all have a water master, and that's who you need to contact.

Okay, I just do a lot of walking, so it's not in front of my house. I just am seeing things that are blocking. Sure. And there's one house behind the post office that almost flooded recently, and I think part of that's because they poured cement to make a driveway, and they lessened the flow rate.

Is it just on 100 West?

The street behind the post office. Right behind the post office. Yeah, that's going to be in the post office. And it's a house directly behind the post office.

So our crews go out and do some maintenance in those ditches as well.

Okay. I was just playing in the water. Great.

We'll put a note on that one too to go look at it.

Okay. Is it the city or the homeowner that's responsible for the sidewalks? Like no leaves, branches?

Homeowner.

Homeowner. Okay. So if I've talked to a homeowner about cleaning it, And you can't walk on the sidewalk. You have to go into the street. What are my?

Code enforcement. Code enforcement. That same non-emergency number. Just call Mrs. Ferngully.

I can do that. Last question. And this could be a rumor. I just heard recently that city offered $3 million for the Lent building. And I'm just wondering what the plans are for that.

There are currently not any.

Okay, so is that just a rumor?

Right now it's a rumor.

Okay.

And property negotiations, just for your information, are in closed session, and rightfully so, so that there's a competitive process if we were to do that. So you wouldn't hear until it was public. Public, yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anybody else?

Did she draw the short straw? They've been pushing each other for a while.

I'm Melissa Gilmore. I am the bomb that started the petition for the Canyon View Middle School for the crossing guards. After briefly speaking with the mayor, it seems like it got some attention. I'm just here to make a face, and now understanding how it works, to kind of get on the agenda to talk about it to keep kids safe.

Yeah, for sure. Is it us or is it the school district? That's just my only question. It's a combination.

We employ the crossing guards. If it involves a cross guard, then we technically employ them.

We've never put crossing guards by secondary educational institutions. They're always by the elementary schools.

What about a light, like a red light, like a little traffic light right there? Yeah, so those discussions are... Just like high schools and, you know, not just high school kids, it's parents as well. So it's everybody.

Is there any way we could reach out to hunters?

We already had a meeting last week with the chief and school district to start talking through the solution. So it's already in process.

So if there's something that needs our attention, you'll bring it to us as soon as it's ready.

One thing, so you guys know, the police have been out there every morning. We've had at least two officers out by Canyon View High School and Middle School in the area of either the driveways going into the parking lots and or that crosswalk going across mid block. So they've helped a lot with the traffic.

That was like the short term like quick thing to try to help.

They are doing more than what I guess there was. However, the officers are sometimes just sitting in the car or talking to each other sideways. And when I spoke to the principal about it, she said, what do you want them to do, stand out there? My response was, yeah, a kid got hit right there, first day of school. Like, I could have killed him. And my son watched it. So it's a big deal. And I think it should be not just officers sitting in a car and just saying that they're helping. They're not. They're sitting in a car. So it needs to be a light or something or officers standing out there. Just a police presence is enough, not just a car, because we are still going through it regardless.

Thank you. Perfect. Thank you. Is that all I do? That's great.

That's perfect. Good job. How do I know it's on the agenda?

So it will only come as an agenda item if there's action that the city council has to take on it. Okay. So right now the discussions are being had between the school district and the police chief because they're the ones that would facilitate between the two organizations. Okay. So like I said, you got my number, so you're welcome to reach out to me anytime and I can update you or get you involved in those discussions as we need to. Okay? Thank you.

But if you want to follow the agendas, they're on the city's website under the Agenda Center, and they usually get published to the Agenda Center on Mondays? Monday, yes. Yep. So every Monday, you can look.

Thank you for engaging. Okay, anybody else? Okay, seeing none, I will entertain a motion

Mayor, I would move that we adjourn this public meeting and go into our closed session. I second.

I have a motion and a second. We have to roll call down this one. Councilman Cox?

Aye.