Planning Board - Regular Meeting

e e e e

e e for the March let's see sorry paging through this for the January 27th 2025 meeting do we have any comments um there's a I believe on page four of 72 in the second paragraph I think they're trying to spell the word meeting so I just think it's a typo meting a read moving with the approval of the agenda or are we on the approval of minutes now I'll make a motion to approve the agenda as submitted yes you are correct I'm sorry about that I'll second roll call please member Ray yes member Perry yes member grocott yes Vice chair Angeles yes chair hubard yes motion carries all right thank you okay so item two is

audience comments do we have any comment cards okay now we will move on to approval of minutes I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from January 27th as corrected second roll call please member grocott yes member Perry yes member Ray yes Vice chair Angeles yes chair hubard yes motion carries okay we have uh let's see here action item 4A election of officers for the 2025 to 2026 cycle um any comment before we get to that okay I'll make a motion that we maintain current status of the board with uh member hubard as the chair chair and member agel Angeles as the vice chair do we have a second second roll call please member grocott yes member Perry yes member Ray yes Vice chair Angeles yes chair hubard yes motion carries thank you and for the next item we need to adjourn as the planning board and reconvene as the local planning agency this is a ordinance 201 25-10 do we have any public comment on this no okay so are you leading this Brandon uh we have Philip de Maria with kimley horn present to talk about this uh he has been our consultant we've worked with him for a couple years now and ready to move it forward if if the board agrees thank you board

members once again for the record my name is Philip Di Maria I'm a certified planner with kimley horn um and like Brandon mentioned Mr Barry mentioned we've been working with staff closely these past few years on the side ordinance um we've had a few workshops in front of you I see some familiar faces I'm some unfamiliar so I'll take a moment um to just briefly uh cover maybe what the purpose of the side ordinance update was U when we first started and uh kind of where we are today and where it is in front of you um so first off you have an existing side Nance and that's division 26 of the Land Development code um and we've performed an up update um with our primary uh goals being quality of life and organization update um really looking at how it's used by both members of the public as well as folks who like your staff members who uh use it um for a means of regulating uh what occurs here in the city and then a secondary but certainly not less important um goal of the side ordinance update was to make sure that we're complying with case law like Reed verse Gilbert uh town of Gilbert was a a town in Arizona and um set a precedent for um the types of language and uh information displayed on signs as it related to free speech and other constitutional um needs um one overarching goal as well was um you know there was a comprehensive Plan update performed and one of um the it identified within was also to reduce sign pollution and improve the look and quality of signage in St Pete Beach as just an overarching policy goal uh as it relates to sign ordinance updates um you'll see that trickles through this proposal and strike through an underline that's before you today um

as a as a way to promote high quality signage through revision revisions to quantity size design of regulations um but what we'll dive into here shortly um first and foremost was recognizing that there are a ton of signed districts within the city of St Pete Beach for um a town of your size um each zoning District had its own regulation and so there was a real opportunity to consolidate and just um make a little bit more concise and approach the signage especially as it moves north and south on G Boulevard um so speaking of which this is um what your zoning uh districts look like today um and there are 15 categories each Zone District had its own sign code effectively within the Zone District you can see on the left side of Golf Boulevard or the West Side may look different than the east side and what that resulted in um U was were different types of signs um and different sizes of signs so there's just a general lack of consistency here additionally um there were just slight differences between some of the sign groups so for instance your rlm Ru uh Monument sign category had a maximum height of 6 feet maximum area of 18 ft uh dcrm signs had two you could go two feet higher and you could get six six feet six additional square feet more of sign area um but didn't really result in any huge material changes so there was just you know higher signs and locations some larger signs and locations but no real uh reason or rationale for it other than that the Zone districts were different um so I'll dive into quality of life and organization some of the goals that we attempted to achieve um in

this update were updated regulations for non-conforming signs improving standards for electronic and LED signs temporary signs and window signs Provisions for inspection of Maintenance of signs allowance for pole signs if it's in landscaped area so including some landscape uh requirements at the base of these pole signs um implementing General sign requirements based on best practices and adjacent communities um that means material and design compatibility modern specific sign standards and clarifies artwork versus painted wall signs you see a lot of that in pelis County so just some precedent codes that we worked in and looked at um both for inspiration as well as to see how we measured up here in St Pete Beach where the town of Longboat Key uh in Manatee and Sarasota County uh the city of DED pelis County as well as the city of St Pete Beach just to see how folks are approaching um signage in their communities um and then I spoke to this briefly earlier on the previous slides but um simplifying permited signs and standards by Zone districts through grouping them together so you'll see new charts within the sign um ordinance that simplify that so we'll start off with the uh legal non-conforming sign so non-conforming status that basically just means that signs were lawful before new regulations but don't mean current ones are considered non-conforming um so right now in the existing text uh there is no non-conforming signs except for electronic and LED signs which was which must conform or be removed by January 1st 2027 and so we're not changing that um you'll see the electronic signs deadline at the bottom of this um that standard is maintained um but we we did include some language or modified some language to include mandatory removal or replacement of signs so if a sign is severely damaged that means that repair

costs 25% or more of the replacement cost as assessed or if the sign is assigned to a building uh where there's significant improvements costing 50% or more to the building then they must upgrade those signs to make sure that they comply with current sign standards um and those are some best practi IES that we see in other communities um we're also we want to encourage the maintenance of signs even if they're not necessarily conforming so you'll you'll see in um the text as well some allowed maintenance um for those non-conforming signs without any structural Al alterations once again just a best practice as it relates to electronic and LED signs this is a really common um uh I guess sign type or um something that we're just starting to see pop up across communities they're very popular with new businesses you can change what signs say uh as often as you like um you can display different messages sales what have you so we're seeing more and more of these signs pop up you may notice them in your community as well as others that you visited um so there are current standards um within the within uh the code um we talked about the Conformity by January 1st 2027 cannot be more than 32 square ft of the total allowable sign area no animated or flashing illumination permitted only permitted in a front yard or front building facade and cannot be closer than 10 ft from the front property line and only permitted along Gulf Boulevard from 75th to 37th um the key here and issues that we identified were some differing views um this is from some of the community feedback that we held both with the chamber members as well as members uh of the community um as well as some of the planning board and commission when we brought this to them so there are differing views on this type of signage whether or not it was preferred or not

um differing views on amortization whether it should be maintained or amended as I discussed we're we we'll be maintaining the um the legality of this and the requirement for Conformity by January 1st 2027 um and then needing to decide if geography or standard should change and those were just all things that came up as part of uh feedback so the proposed standards just in summary um is that they'll only be allowed for non-residential properties along Gulf Boulevard from 75th to 37th so that was maintained um must be in the front yard at least 10 ft from the property line the design must be an integral part of a freestanding sign with a cabinet design matching the primary sign structure so the idea is just that the quality of the sign and how it connects to the properties and the buildings that it's providing signage for there's some relationship between them which is once again a best practice um the size piece cannot exceed 50% of the freestanding signs area maxing out at 32 square ft so ensuring that we don't have huge message boards um up and down GF Boulevard we've assigned some brightness and timing pieces um so brightness cannot surpass um 3ot candles above ambient light at 50 ft feet distance I'm not a um a light specialist but this uh continually came up in some of the codes that we looked at timing messages must remain fixed for at least 1 minute static static images default mechanism and then permitted signs static images and the default mechanism are are clearly some best practices once again I won't spend too much time on these but if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them they they're fairly um logical in terms of why you would include them in a code temporary signs was another piece um that we spent some time on I was really happy to have some assistance

from the city attorney on this one um this is one um where some of the um re verse Gilbert case U started to come into play as it relates to Temporary sign so you can see the strike through underline taken directly from the text here um but temporary signage speaks to um whether or not they're on Residential Properties and or non-residential properties has nothing to necessarily do with what they're advertising so one temporary sign per property on Residential Properties not more than 3 square fet on non-residential it could be 12 square fet unlimited temporary signs are allowed on non-residential and residential 30 days before an election until two days after the election um temporary signs for predictable events can be posted no more than S days before and must be removed 2 days after for unpredictable events they must be removed 2 days after and then exemption does not exist to signs governed by a special event permit so if you have a special event permit you can still have include signage within that permit um that might not be regulated or have to comply with these um window signs was another um a Hot Topic as it relates to the sign code um so altering the definition slightly so that it states that windows and door signs mean any sign visible from the exterior of a building um because a lot of folks were using window signs as a way to advertise their goods but not necessarily having to comply with some of the sign codes so some folks saw it as maybe a loophole of sorts so we're very clearly addressing this um and then uh making sure that uh permanent window signs must not cover more than 50% of the window and comply with all fire safety codes that's more of like a general urban planning Theory piece where you you still want there to be some relationship between the outside of the building and the inside of the building making sure that there there's

a maximum percentage ensures that there's a um that relationship is maintained um as far as measurements concerned the route that uh we took here was to make sure that they were permitted um but they count towards the maximal allow attached sign area so it's almost as if they're outside the building if there were an attached sign on the facade those count towards the same maximum areas um and there's some standards for temporary window signs as well um those I think when we think of temporary window signs we think of like a a for rent sign or something along those lines and in an apartment Window or something along those lines um inspection and maintenance um these are kind of best practices I won't spend too much time on these but generally speaking we want signs and their supporting structures if you maintain safe neat and clean appearance and there's some standards associated with that um hopefully that'll help out Brandon and his staff with code enforcement those sorts of things all right here's um some examples of the electronic and LED signs that you may see see around town um we thought it was um you know we had some good pictures of signs malfunctioning um without the default mechanism to turn the display off you can see that on the top right of your screen as well as um in the bottom left as well um that also showcase right again once again there's maximum amount of area that these um that uh maximum amount of area that they can exist on a sign and they're supposed to be secondary to advertising um the business itself which should be on the main sign that you see in each of these examples okay um so that was a lot of text um I think this one is is one of the I'll say um good quality of life

changes that we're including in here and that's consolida of the Zone districts um so you'll see the tables within the text um this results in a consolidation this table that you see here is consolidating AC BR CC1 cc2 cg1 cg2 ins and Ro districts which both are all of these effectively have a very very similar character um different uses certainly on the zoning side different setbacks sure but generally speaking these are um you know uh districts that are very commercial in nature um and the types of signs that were permitted and their sizes and the number of them um were all relatively similar so we Consolidated them um this is for the bhclr and rfm districts uh one other thing in this table and we think this will improve the the um readability of this code is that it's very simple if you're a business you look at this and you understand that okay I have a freestanding sign I'm allowed one per Street Frontage not to exceed a maximum of two um you read in the left side when you can go up to two sides two signs and then um uh you're allowed to go up to three signs where you have um a certain amount of Frontage as well you have your attach signs your projecting signs so you can kind of mix and match you have a menu uh as it relates to signage um and then maximum area and maximum height play play a factor here as well it's tc1 tc2 ubv cdea some of those other districts as it relates to re verse Gilbert once again um emphasis on content neutral regulations that's key in all of this um the lack of censorship or regulation of viewpoints and signage

and messaging and then the sign code updates only pertain to the dimensional standards or signage Within the city of St Pete Beach so once again nothing to do with the commercial content itself um so we did a a thorough review and um this side ordinance that you see in front of you uh complies um from our perspective with the Revere Gilbert president these are examples of the changes made to ensure that there's compliance and we're open and available for any questions unless Brandon do you have anything that you'd like to add um but it's been a pleasure working with um City's staff um you know we over the last month we spent a lot of time together um getting this draft uh before you today um so we'd welcome any questions or any suggestions that you might have thank you sure okay um I noticed that there were some changes about Billboards and I was trying to um get some background or what was the intent of of what was going on with the Billboards sure yeah I noticed that too it was deleted from the definitions as far as I know there's only one billboard in St b beach though right over by the scooter rental place one on top of the pizza yeah yeah I can't think of another one yeah I think do you want I think the basis for that was because and we we currently do this through our code as well we we do prohibit Billboards um through other regulations we prohibit rooftop signage we prohibit signage over in this case it'll be a 60 square feet so we have other regulations that prohibit them without needing to call

them out as a separate sign type okay great question um and I had I had some other questions throughout the um ordinance so should how do you want to approach that just go ahead fire way okay all right so one of the things I noticed um there was a lot in here in purpose and intent it had the size and everything and it said that we were trying to um regulate the appearance and design of signs so they complement natural surroundings um based on our um Reliance on our natural suround surroundings um so as I was looking at some of the definitions the first definition that I looked at was artwork and um if you're looking in your packet that's 15 of 72 and um would you please bring up my my question Ryan can you please do the overhead okay so this is um a sign thing that I took out of the out of a cup and I don't know if you can see it or not but on that first picture um if we can blow that up where on the Second Story down below you can't read it but it says can you read it yeah it says it's artwork no up up one up see the see the block that block if you can blow that block up okay sorry yeah I believe that's the same as the rendering is the one right it is oh St Pete Beach art installation this is an art installation um and if you look at it the picture below what it is is it's St Pete Beach on a concrete

wall um so I was thinking that maybe as part of the artwork definition where it says it can it uh does not in any way um identify a business product business logo or commercial message that maybe we should add the word location because I do not con what I'm seeing here is that if I declare this artwork I can bypass all these sign regulations and to me this looks more like a billboard than a piece of art I think we'll I'd be happy to note that concert concern I understand where you're coming from and I don't know if um staff or City attorney has a I see that as more like a mural like something you might see in downtown St Pete stating the city it's cold it's industrial it doesn't it's not consistent with our desire to go with our natural surroundings I mean if it was a bunch of turtles or you know something else I think it would have a totally different feel um um but to me it's a sign so would you suggest any writing be stricken from artwork well I know I know they're talking about content that's why I just yeah on the artwork definition I was adding the word location um so you're asking them not to put St Pete Beach yes because it's a billboard it that is there's no art there there's nothing referencing our um as it says here in our per purp that complements the natural surroundings and recognition of the city's Reliance on its natural surroundings and beautification efforts I don't find that consistent with our natural

surroundings I find it as a way to get around the sign ordinance can I ask a question on that one so if we were say in historic fil and there was a mural on the side of a building and it depicted historic passil and said historic passil would that be an issue I don't see that as an issue I guess personally I don't see that as an issue if it's you know again a rendering of well it I guess what's what is here is there there's no and I have a definition of art can you put up the um I I went to my trusted friend Google and okay so so obviously art encompasses a wide range creative expression visual Etc um and so I think if you were doing pass the grill and you had some kind of I don't know Magnolias Turtles whatever I think that that would be different this is just cold plain words on concrete and I I just feel like it's a way to bypass the sign ordinance so it sounds like the the issue isn't the verbage necessarily the language on the sign it's the it's the block lettering it's no different than the design of the building itself in many of these cup situations that we've had Pro had had um discrepancies with you know with the community and saying it's not within the you know it's not the character of not the character because it's it's industrial it's so isn't that part of more of the process of the review process of construction and signage to ensure charact it meets the character of our community I I just don't know how you would out what if the letters were made out of palm trees yeah that I just don't know how you would specifically say location as being a prohibited practice because I think there's cases where you could make it completely within the character of a

community well I'm I'm certainly open to um wording to make it clearer what I don't want to see though is something get pasted that anybody can write whatever words they want and call it artwork and it's really not artwork so I don't know the best way to prevent that but I don't believe this St Pete Beach plaster on a side of concrete is is artwork and it is definitely not in character with the beach so I'm I'm open to whatever wording anybody can suggest I just don't want to see an easy work around to get aside of the ordinance and I think um I'll just add I your Point's well taken um obviously our scope of work was primarily focusing on the sign ordinance itself um so I just my the only thing I would add or something to think think about the sport should think about is do we want to classify that lettering as a sign then that would be something that we would have to have to take a look at as far as if the location indic would apply to a sign code so the only legal trouble with content neutrality is the way to think of content neutrality under read versus Gilbert is to say if I have to read the words to determine whether it's in compliance or not and that's not content neutral so for example I don't know if you've seen the sign like that says love and it's like an art sign or peace you know if you if you have to read Peace Love or St Pete Beach then you're reading the worri to determine whether it's in compliance or not so that would be the trouble there if you have to read the words to determine are they describing a location

or an emotion then that would be content based and that would be unconstitutional right so I don't know Brandon do we have an art review board in the city of St Pete Beach that reviews art some cities have art review boards we don't have an art review board um this would be something that' be handled at the administrative level but I think that maybe independent of the the the text or the con 10 on the wall um it might relate more to some of the design and material standards that the city has especially for that overlay that might be something I feel would be better handled through amendments to that rather than the the content I I understand your concern is just about the the word St P Beach well it's just it's not only this is an example but if if people can do this and declare anything art and bypass our sign ordinance I mean that's the bigger issue this is an example um my question for City attorney would be is the fact that I have to read it to know it says St P Beach and not trade wins does that make it not art makes it content based which makes it unconstitutional would would this prohibit that being installed as written or it's allowable as art it U identifi a business product or business Lo logo unless you can consider St P Beach or product or some commercial message it does say or a commercial message I know for example in Naples they have a postcard in the side of a building um but they asked them to take the words off it so it would just be the postcard of the image of the old time cars going down Fifth Avenue um I I can't I can't person more into

what could be maybe a artwork standards ordinance yeah maybe we could have some criteria under artwork definition ABC what constitutes art what constitutes advertising that's that's where I put the word location was under the artwork definition because there are places where artwork is talked about and I thought it you know that might be that might work I could take a look at it some more okay I I would I would think that would be understand what you're trying to get to right and I understand the concern on the other side too um and if you put the original picture back up again um I saw something else that looked like it was not compliant and that is at the very top of the building it says trade wins and when in the chart that you put up it said um something about not going up more than two two stories or like have to find that chart um and the proposed ordinance yes in the proposed ordinance nothing's supposed to be higher than two stories I thought this is the are which district this is large this is large resort and again I'm not I'm just picking up examples of so a current example I mean not off of a of a proposal if you look at the brand new Hilton Garden in Dr look drove past it coming in and I mean that's a brand new building and at the top of their building it says Hilton Garden and it's tasteful it's their you know but it's five stories up so under this does that mean they will need to take that new Hilton Garden and sign off off of the fifth floor of their building are the height requirements more towards free we can ask the consultant in table 267b correct that's covered LR district for the first question says um at the bottom row third column over shall not appear above the second floor of building that's correct so I guess the first question was this trade wins one um I guess that's already been approved but under the proposed sign ordinance

for that would then be prohibited because it's too high that's correct okay your question was which which one so Hilton Garden right now the brand the new it was just recently redone is on the the top very typical I think to put it at the top of your building one for visibility as people are driving down the street and trying to see which building they're getting to but um so that would need to come down is that large resort also by with uh it's it's within that one of that District yes I mean might be right before a large resort but in the new grouping it is so when would those new signs need to come down by uh there's no no requirement for unless well I could flip back to the pages where there's um if there's damage to the building or damage to the side unserviceable okay I I personally find that more attractive than yet another I do big sign 10 ft off the highway I I I agree with you I think that having them at that you know again when I'm driving down the street and trying to see hotel hotel which hotel I'm going to I think it's if it's tasteful it's new I don't have an issue with it I think any sign within the size and brightness requirements should be allowed on the structure itself cuz it's not you know it's not like a six story high freestanding sign it's on the facade so I think that that should be allow and yeah and if we're limiting square footage there's going to be a point where they can't make it large enough depending on how setback it is so they're going to come up with something that works but how do you determine the square footage of lettering is each sign and individ if it's individual letters is each letter an individual sign yeah it's good point they be to two letters then I thought it was based on the side the facade that they had to that's correct so it's Street Frontage gives you a certain linear amount of feet and then it's one square foot in certain Zone districts one square foot per linear foot of building Frontage but it was a maximum of how many signs three it's one per Frontage there's one per Frontage with a maximum

of two to three per business so is each individual letter if it's its own letter aign and would two letters see there's a lot of this that's just not clearly defined sure yeah actual measurements um we have a we have current Graphics within your sign code that speaks to how they're measured I can flip to that in a second but I just wanted to get clarity on some of the feedback that we're receiving today um so one is the maximum height we um the planning board would would like to strike the maximum height um of two stories and permit at the roof line below the roof line something along those lines I think below the roof line is appropriate one for a couple reasons you don't want that light light if it's back lit you don't want that going over onto the beach side um certainly and to it's tacky but yeah I think on a building facade I don't think that there should be a second story yeah I agree with that you don't think there should be a second story limit limit yeah okay on the on a facade of a large building yeah she not appear above the roof line is what you're saying yeah that's what I would say to for member Ray I I think the fact that we're limiting the quantity of signs would prevent someone from calling each letter a unique sign because they could only have two three letters yeah so many that's yeah but that's my point right if it's would the sign then have to be would all the letters have to be attached to each other just where section I know there's a section that's stricken through just below the definitions that's correct where you had a meas measurement uh what has that been replaced with where it says how to measure sign area and that's been stricken yeah we have um page n of 39 has in here that if there was individual letters you go to the outside

of the letters but is that replaced we have uh substitute Graphics that aren't included in this draft um but there is substitute graphic that we'd be substituting that and it's it's the same measurement type so for the purposes of discussion uh the outside of the letters of any word um would be the method of measurement so member Ray to your point if someone had 200 linear feet of Frontage and they wanted two attached signs right next to one another you know that that might be an option but they would be forgoing any other kind of signage on their property property yeah correct good what about signs that are interior to the to the property those don't count as long as they're not visible from outside from the public right of life okay so we have a couple points of clarification that we need okay U the next thing I had was under 26.9 or four it's it's on page 22 of 72 and it's in paragraph B and it says um where sign is erected um if I can read this here such that any signed display or device allowed under this division may contain in lie of any other copy any otherwise lawful message and I was looking for the definition of lawful message because I know you're not supposed to read the content but what if somebody does something um you know that's really not appropriate how does that get addressed so City attorney correct me if I'm wrong but we can still differentiate between commercial and non-commercial messages so using a non-commercial sign as a way to allow

for commercial signage would it be allowed for example um there are also certain items that can't be displayed lawfully on public signage um obscenities and and things like that that um you know the state for example reserves the right to use words like stop in red lettering and things like that those those are unlawful messages that we can still prohibit okay okay so there doesn't need to be a definition then it's understood what that means it it might be a good exam a good idea to add that in but that I just wanted to give an example of what we're talking about when we say that we can add a definition okay thank you um on that same page uh 2272 um it says sign permit required in um letter A1 it says under generally the very first sentence um allow temporary and allow permanent signs of the type described in section 26.25 shall be exempt I think in the new document it's 2613 okay and so I think this is just an error for pages on again um 22 of 72 and it's it's uh the middle of the page and what section it says 26 Dot and then five sign permit required a generally and then the one allow temporary and allow permanent signs of the type described in section 26.25 but I really think that's 2613 so maybe I don't have that right but exempt signs yeah that reference will be

updated that's right 2613 as well as and I I thought I might have had a couple other of those as well but might be just good to check them all I know it's very confusing when especially when you're doing the track changes 13 and 17 are the changes yep thank you for that okay does Beach Frontage count as Road Frontage for the multiple signage no and that's under definitions on page okay the definition it's the the fourth page of the strike through under line where it talks about Frontage building it's a single facade of a building or portion of a building occupied by an office building Enterprise which is a buding a street parking area or other means of customer access such as an arcade mall or walkway now we do allow for a waterfront sign for those Waterfront based businesses that's an expansion from what we currently allow um in the distant past we used to have businesses that were only visible from a Waterway we don't have any of those now um but we do still extend the ability for Waterfront businesses to have one sign on that Waterfront so so if if a large Hotel wanted to put like the trade WIS has on the front of their building the trade WIS along that top could they put that on the back as well facing the beach or would that be prohibited they would be allowed one for that business because it's a it's a waterf facing business yes but it could couldn't be illuminated

there's other limitations right because of the turtles and everything okay makes sense is this written in a way that' be compatible with a zoning lot consolidation so even though it might be five businesses one sign right we and I Philip correct me if I'm wrong I believe we were going to add some language in just to deal with those multi-bus properties where it's a consolidation not what you would see with the shopping center but when you have multiple businesses on one property just to limit the total linear footage of signage that could be put up even if you have businesses multiple businesses within a 200 or 300 foot range um if that didn't make it in in there that is something we're going to look at so okay on um page 30 of 72 at the top of the page I think it's just a typo which section number okay my page number is different your oh I see okay 3072 39 pages I don't know where you're getting 72 it's 18 of 39 if you're looking at the P 39 redacted one on the revision mark up go ahead I'm sorry for the interruption no no problem so basically it reads numers shall be at least least 3 in in height if the dwelling or business establishment and I thought it should say is to be located 50 ft or less from the curb so I just thought the two B words need might need to be in there I think with referring to existing structures it can just be is located okay oh at the very top of the page there I see that's in 26

13A I'm sorry this is for street address signs yes it says um if the dwelling or business establishment is to be located 50 ft or less from the curve or improved right away I thought the 2B needed to be in there but maybe it doesn't it's just grammatical rather than is located um you're saying is to be look I understand well hey at least I know you went through this with a fine tooth conb I think we're okay with is there that would capture like applications that are coming forward you're thinking oh this not doesn't exist yet but it's their application so typically we just use the word is and stay away from the passive to be okay all right okay the next thing I had I would need the um last sheet put up number [Applause] eight no that's not the one I'm sorry it's the that one okay this one I know you're going to ask me what section it's in it it it would be on 26 of 39 and it has to do with um Waterside identification signs and it's specifically about the um sandwich boards and that's not on that one let me see if I got another page for it 2618 yes section three it would be it's also on page 27 of 39 it's um boat or Beach boat or Beach concession signs

and then it goes that's letter G and it goes on to Boer Beach concession signs is on page 26 to 39 and it flips over to 27 okay so the code reference is section 26.8 standards for specific signs G G3 yes that's exactly right so when I was looking at this I had a couple of questions um the very first one um talks about setbacks 40 feet from the water's edge and I know the water's edge moves and most of the stuff that I see talks about either a mean high tide or wet sand or something so I didn't know if that was just a known meaning and I just didn't know what it was or if that isn't the best way to describe it that's the way we use it as well so it would be cleaner to be consistent with the rest of the code and use meat high water water line okay agree okay the other thing I noticed is that um the first three has to do with building Frontage adjacent to the Sandy Beach the second one has to do with a tiki hut um and then the third one's if you don't have anything and it looked inconsistent to me because for example um if I don't have anything I don't have to have any setback from the waterline I mean the the requirements seem to change and talking about leaving stuff on the beach at night I didn't know I know a lot from the um the beach orance that they are concerned about leaving structures out in the sand where the turtles are trying to come in so this section to me was not consistent for each of the categories and I also was concerned about compliance with the beach ordinance yeah I think this might be in

conflict with a proposed Beach ordinance these These are good comments I did want to say this was just brought forward wholesale from our current code this is what is currently adopted and it was just moved in but there are opportunities to make it more consistent with more recent amendments so we we'll we'll make those changes would this apply to uh boats that are docked like at uh dolphin Marina where they have boats that are out there they put launch times things of that sort and they set it on the dock so this would only apply to those few properties that are in the rfm district so want to apply attending the marinas this would apply primarily to the Don CeSar and a few of our other properties at the Northern end so so this is like chair rental correct that sort of business so to me this just needed to be made consistent and cleaned up a little bit great comment well will make those changes okay okay I think I can stop there I have a couple more things but they minor CH what view I'd um I don't I don't have anything I I assume like does H Terry does oh oh I'm sorry that's okay yeah go ahead um so if we start back at the top uh 261 and we talk about P purpose intent and scope um and it says uh enhancing visual uh environment of the city promoting its continued well-being we do not say anything about Wildlife protection um and I don't know if that was purposeful or not and nor do I see anything throughout the entire um content with any reference to Wildlife protection specifically sea turtle lighting um requirements or anything like that is that all because it's contained in other parts of code no we can add it I think it's addressed in the

building because yeah wouldn't HT to add it here um so so a sign would fall under lighting if it was Beach facing yes and and then the lighting ordinance is applicable correct okay and same because I think some of them some of these science on the poles can go high enough that it may or may not go over a building yeah if it's a single story structure and it's a twostory sign yeah not yeah you want to make sure that that's let we just talk about the back that in there um on 26-2 when it talks about Abandoned and describes that and then again when it talks about having I think 90 days to remove from abandoned buildings um signage does that include postnatural Andor man-made disasters IE hurricane fire etc etc are we at that point mandating business owners Etc have signs off their buildings within 90 days where are you uh looking at so it's under um definitions I think that's page 2 of 39 26.2 abandoned yeah 26-2 it talks about Abandoned as being a period of 90 consecutive days or longer but it doesn't talk about anything that has to do with again due to a hurricane or fire or some reason like that that would cause a building to be abandoned that may be out of the owner's control that's not currently Exempted the way that we exempts certain types of use you know what would otherwise be use prohibitions um that would need to be something that we would amend in if if it's something the board is looking for so so under this if a building was abandoned for a hurricane currently we would require that sign to be down within 90 days correct based on this show I think that's could we could we just Define

that abandoned does not include uninhabitable due to storm event or similar we could if that's the board's Direction I think you're taking away their I mean they only yeah opportunity to advertise the fact that they will be you know that their intent is to rebuild if we and putting a burden on them that they're already facing I would ask that we may be tied to a local state of emergency rather than just keep it open for interpretation if that's acceptable so are are the emergency ordinances that have been passed would they uh interrupt this from being enforced so maybe it's a nonissue well um with our amended code it would get for any of event moving forward it would give that option okay so so there's so are we not going to make any change or add any wording to this specifically we'd want to limit it to while rebuilding U due to Hurricane during a local state of emergency so that the business EMP shutters yeah and it's not there they should take their sign down 90 days otherwise we have a abandoned storefront with all the abandoned signs and yeah right right no I absolutely understand the intent and agree with it I just worry about postnatural disaster state of emergency situation so while we're on that could I add that so in some of these sections where there are no banners wouldn't that be an opportunity to effectively put a banner up over the existing sign there are I have cons I mean I think I think this ordinance the changes to the ordinance impact small businesses disproportionately compared to the larger businesses on the beach the trade WIS is definitely going to be able to afford to do what they need to do but the smaller bus businesses are going to have a much more difficult time keeping up with these things uh we looked at a

sign to move on one of the buildings down here and it was almost $111,000 just in costs to get the design and the engineering designs out and most of the small businesses that's cost prohibitive to some of these small businesses so and I'll let you go back but those are some of the problems that I have with with what we're doing so you're saying um so your recommendation would be like if the sign became unserviceable unserviceable because the state of emergency business owner should be able to put up a temporary I would say something like a temporary we we'll be back or you know because we're looking at right now we're discussing an abandoned business or or building right so if there was a way to you know how do you does do they have to file with the city to say we're not abandoned we're waiting for permits so defining abandon I think abandon but it does Define that's actually what it defines the problem is it doesn't clearly talk it doesn't allow for what if it's just listed for sale for 90 days is that abandoned there's no activity going on it it's an empty building well I think 90 days set makes it abandoned is what what it says currently which is my concern because we have businesses that are I think it's too restrictive but we also have to put limits on it so where is the balance is the issue so you want some kind of temporary Banner allowance well I don't know if it's a temporary Banner allowance but if if we're considering a building abandoned because there's been no activity there in 90 days and they have to take down their sign because of that yeah there are businesses that are waiting for permits to be able to to fix their their Billings so I think the ongoing permit should allow them to be to keep the status that there is intent to fix the signs so that yeah I think wording for that would and then if

you put something in there as an actively listed rental or you know for lease or whatever then you also have those guys who could just actively listed at no cost forever so you know yeah there's a yeah well that's why yeah I'd like to I I was thinking of tying it to natural disaster we don't get caught between those folks that are just trying to bypass again an ordinance and just not take their signs down versus someone who's actually trying to get back to but have are dealing with permits are dealing with FEMA reimbursements are dealing with a whole Litany of things that we know our businesses are dealing with especially some of the small businesses to your point you know smaller businesses are really waiting for SBA Loans etc etc you know how do we protect them from additional burdens and costs and citations through this you know through this ordinance sure another option would be to tie it to the state state of um Declaration of state of emergency but those can tend to go on for years we're still under the hurricane Ian for example that was two and a half years ago so um just to um just to run this by the board we could tie it to a local state of emergency which we do have control over it sounds like the board would also be amenable to if a building permit has been obtained in a certain amount of time for Storm Restoration they would be able to maintain the sign for the length of the restoration permit as long as it's kept in good standing with the city is that yes is is is there a sign at the um grocery store that's no longer there I mean would that have to be taken down wind Dixie yeah is it a wind I thought it was a cash and car but yeah it was when Dixie you're right I don't remember um I mean I think there's a sign there that doesn't that's blank would they be

required to take the structure down would they be required to take the wording down it's it's been a few years but I believe we did take them for a variance um it a few years ago we went through this possibly even with hurricane Ian and I remember um they had to go through that process so it was them and a few other businesses and if you're referring to the one on the west side of the wind what was formerly the windexi they they have removed that sign have they yes um section 26.3 applicability uh section C3 it says historic markers for local I assume that means official historic markers not like when you drive down um and you hit the the dawn there it says like there's a sign there it says home of historic P home historic Donar what Cesar whatever it says but that's you mean official historical markers and historic markers for local state or nationally designated historical resources just want to make sure that people don't again get around it um talked about 266 yeah 26 tax six e is where it talks about removed within 90 days of the effective date um that we just talked about uh 2611 signs on public lands item F and that talks about anything that's on publicly loaned uh land and I'm trying to decipher if temporary signs Falls within that or without outside of that where we have uh real estate open house handyman services all the all of the yeah just like I said drive in and you see them everywhere that's public land um so does

this prohibit all of those regardless of timelines it it does just like it does today the the one exception is when for example we have the banner for the gulf beaches school um right over the bridge we do allow for that because that's something that we took action to allow okay so uh section 2612 B Window signs um might this over here too so does that include when you are driving by any of the like local gas stations and they're plastered with the your sixpack of beer costs this much your big Gul costs this much or this and this and you can't see anything but like the various crazy signs so that limits those those signs it is and that's that is currently the adopted standard I know our code enforcement's out from time to time addressing those situations so okay thanks think there was a slide in the presentation that showed that and then I think on uh 2613 and it's um that just came up when we when you talked about when during the presentation we talked about signs on residential um uh multif family residential so if I have a a condominium and every one of those is independent and each one of those 12 of those are for rent each one of those can have a sign in their front window saying for rent as it's currently written I'm sorry this is 2613 L6 it would be a temporary sign it was under temporary signs and it was under your um presentation that's what temporary window signs and temporary signs yeah it says each multi each multifam unit that's what I'm asking is can each unit in a multif family dwelling post a sign in their window

that could get really I think so the way it's sure how the other folks in that sometimes in the multif family Condominiums and apartment buildings they have their own internal declaration restrictions and rules about what you could post in there okay but as it trying to allow um you know a person that lives in a condo to put for example a freedom of speech sign in their window whether it's to vote for a person or express some political idea or which yeah brings me over to the same 2613 M and I'm just not sure how folks feel about this but you a resident can have any an unlimited number of temporary signs for approximately 32 days on their property for during voting period they may want to have have like you know if there's um State officials you might have a candidate for the State House candidate for the State Senate candidate for governor candidate for city council candidate for County Commission you see during the election sign some people are I guess really into the election and they want to put someone they V for and everything other people maybe just put one candidate or two candidates so this is to and so does that sign specifically have to be for a candidate no you could say Freedom so they can put any number of unlimited number of signs for 32 days around any election and it doesn't have to refer to a candidate you're not allow I can find elections all the time I assume you're not allowed to regulate the content so you can't say you can only post Governor signs or city council signs or local election signs or national signs if someone wants to put any kind of freedom of expression uh stop the war um they're allowed to put that up during an election period doesn't have to have candidates name what's defined what are you defining an election period as I guess then because

otherwise I'm going to say official election that takes place in the city okay is that defined or when anytime we have precincts here running an election so then I would just like to Define that because otherwise again you're just opening it up to say well there's an election in you know Missouri locally and we're from Missouri and so I want to put a at the sign that election definition we do say an election event held within the city that is part of the temporary can I jump in on that same number okay I just want to yeah make sure especially once we start not saying anything it doesn't even have to do with the election um what is a wind sign can I ask that question on prohibited 264 sorry 26 14 e what is a wind sign a wind sign means a sign which uses objects or material fastened in such a manner as to move upon being sub jeed to the pressure or to pressure by wind oh yeah shall include penants ribbons Spinners streamers or captive balloons however the term wind sign shall not include Flags Okay I think that was it we addressed the second story and then again being District 4 I'm a little um concerned regarding no specific historic um limitations for the passil overlay action area yeah I thought also there might be something we could do for um exempting certain historic uh external signs that have a history uh that specific sign replacing or well again theater sign on Cory I me even new signage that doesn't require any characteristic and I'll I mean oh review the isore of the you know stop and go sign which is the very first

corner is a perfect example of you know the lack of um Conformity with the character of an of a historic overlay District um so to not have the historic overlay District kind of called out separately I consider a concern typically would they go to the uh historic review board or only if they were asking for a variance or is it part of their site plan approval not typically unless it's part of a new development and currently the we have specific standards for the overlay as um Mr D Mar P mentioned but it's it's only a limitation on illumination we don't have material or any other kind of Standards uh we we could look into something but it maybe a little outside the scope of this at this time but it's definitely something we can work on as as staff um we are amending the passag grill overlay district and the uh crd 8th Avenue so that's something we could maybe look at bringing back and hand with that something that maybe like shall not detract from the histor loal character yes significance of the particular historic district contributing structures who would decide that though that's unless we have a formal committee well they have a historical they don't have the authority to do that currently you could send them through the historical review board if you wanted to that sounds like a good option or are businesses required to conform with the aesthetic completely though not currently yeah it seems a little unless we're living through the exactly that of of them not with with some of these businesses coming in that we want to try to yeah when this had initially been taken a workshop there hadn't been a lot of interest from from what I perceive to for there to be internal

consistency or consistency between signs and buildings I think where we did make a recommendation and that was accepted was um having landscaping around freestanding signs um we're allowing poll signs based on what's drafted here but it would require it to be set within Landscaping instead of in the middle of a parking lot or you know at least get some kind of aesthetic benefit out of that um but I think there was a was that the perception you had at the time it's consistent I was going to say we could um as it relates to the pag gril area and crda um perhaps make sense just under the um table 2617 C have a second note and just say that they're they're um subject to additional standards as so forth in the overlay District that's great thank you my comments thank you sure should should we consider maximum widths in any of the districts for residential for example because if you're allowed 24 sare ft you could have a 1T tall 24t wide sign I think residential is limited isn't it limited to three Square ft it's 24 square feet for freestanding sign I think you're looking at page 25 of 39 worried about thin sign possibility yeah cuz sometimes people try to spell something out in multiple signs and then you're instead of dri paying attention to driving you're paying attention to what is this spelling as I drive by so so I will say that the bur sign yeah yeah so I will say especially for the Standalone residential Districts The Core residential and even the the downtown residential which allows some very limited commercial those are specific to businesses I don't believe we have any businesses that are currently non-conforming but that would apply if we were to ever get some kind of a um assisted living facility or or facility like that they would be limited

but it wouldn't be for typical residence it would just be in those specific examples okay so yeah that sounds fine so I just want to make sure I heard your right Brandon it's for commercial buildings or commercial use buildings in a residential neighborhood correct okay but a resident is still limited on a sign in your yard to 3 feet that is correct okay so I wouldn't be maybe want to make that make sure that's clear here in 267 uh D permitted for commercial uses in the residential R1 R2 um one thing I'd just like to draw your attention to as well the uh Graphics that I mentioned as well as the method for measurement is located at 2615 um which speaks to the uh 261 5 2615 C area calculation area calculation I think maybe C3 might be the um okay like directly apply yeah you put the graphic in there correct okay should there be some kind of ratio restriction um as as it relates to both height and width like we're just discussing yeah that' be at the will of the board if there's desire for

that that would work cuz if it's 60 square ft on a large commercial project you could make it 1 by 60 something else so maybe a maximum of it's also something we could do some research on and and come back with maybe some suggestions okay I one more DAV sure yeah okay um on page 19 of 39 letter M you w talking Terry about the temporary signs but there's before number one in that paragraph it says signs may be freestanding or attached wall signs and shall not be of a type prohibited in section 2613 temporary signs but 26.13.6 anything else can I couple questions do we know how many businesses would be required to completely replace signs at this point also because of the 25% and and is it all of them no okay no

it's not we we had a surprisingly few number of destroyed signs in the last storm um there were a few on Gulf Boulevard we're working through I'd say maybe four or five were just completely dismantled and need to be replaced based on our current 50% limitation the 25% is is intentional we did lower that to address um you know signs during more Blue Sky periods to make sure that they eventually do need to come into compliance it's currently 50% and you can do a lot of the 50% of the value of a sign when it comes to just general maintenance so we did intentionally lower that to 25% to accelerate compliance with the sign code and and I I get that I think timing might be bad with with uh you know the the burden that's been put on small businesses from the storms uh I think that should be taken into consideration during this time um I'll come back to my question in regards to uh the ability to be able to use banners what do we do or how can businesses that have seasonal um offerings uh offer those if they're if they're not able to make changes or put different signs up well currently and what's proposed under this code is effectively the same as regards to banners we allow them for transitional periods um when a sign is conforming and it just needs to be you know it's an alternative to a sign sock or another way to to show a business before they get a ter a permanent uh placard for their sign was there a time limit on that um just just during the you know inter room period but it needs to be on an existing sign it just can't be a you know free standing element on the on the property we also allow them for a month when a business is under grand opening uh we allow that as well

so if I had a quarterly promotion I could quarterly change my sign with a banner it would be an association with a new business tax receipt that's what we tie it to so when a business locates into a space uh we issue business tax receipt that gives 30 days but that would be just for granted opening not a seasonal change that's correct we would have to amend something in to allow that um I guess kind of my my question or comment really is is that sorry I'm trying to find it on the page under uh it is Page actually page 139 a says to encourage the effective use of signs as a means of communication in the city and I think a lot of the things that we're doing is actually limiting businesses the ability to be able to communicate and I think a lot of what we have here isn't defined clearly enough in my opinion to be able to make a decision for approval or disapproval at this point I would agree with that yeah and I did want to say there are a few um additional permissions that were extended to businesses for example currently um we pretty heavily restrict those businesses that are allowed to have a Sandwich Board sign we are extending that to any business so now they now have that changeable sign copy it's not expensive it's something that almost every Business Center could take advantage of um but there were restrictions on it from where they could put it right so if you were on Corey you probably could would you be able to put one on Corey uh there' be limitations especially if those businesses built at the property line that would be difficult yes so what do we do for a business that's built at the property line and ordinance would actually have them put their sign 10 ft into their building they would be Li well and we

would restrict electronic Message Board signs on Cory regardless um yeah electronic boards I'm not even I mean they would meet the 10 but it would they'd probably be limited to an attached sign or a blade sign so if they're at the property line now they probably have Windows they could use signage on maybe and but there's also restrictions on that 50% of the window right would you have see through you know what I'm talking the signage that you can see through mhm how does that affect it if I had a hole every other inch is that 50% if it covers the entire window or like a wrap yeah the wraps that are see-through something we'd have to take a look at but generally speaking if I'm a business owner I'm going to figure out a way to get around whatever I can get around and I'm not trying to do it to I look my concern is is that businesses are struggling right now and we're putting uh an ordinance on them or we're suggesting an ordinance that I think makes it more restrictive for businesses to promote their business and we find this at a time when we know that they're struggling I think in the end what our goal is is to clean up the city and make it look better but if you make it to the point where businesses can't generate enough business to stay in business it's detrimental to what we're trying to to accomplish in my opinion to your point on timing you know knowing that there is this in the works how are you addressing the businesses that are just coming out of the their hurricane and putting new signage up are you are you somehow to grandfather them or are you giving them guidance to say this is what we recommend because this is where we are recommending the code go I mean I would hate to see a lot of businesses come out of this and say like

oh great here's we're in with the existing code and here we go we've just spent thousands of dollars putting our signs up and now you know four months from now they're out of out of um or worse they spent thousands of dollars for the engineering to put the sign up and then we changed the code right so so how would we address that interum perod knowing that there's so more than normal noral businesses that are in the process of of upgrading and redoing signs MH so for the two sign I mean surprisingly we have not seen that many come through I I know that there are going to be a few coming down the pipe but I I have tried to give them information about the upcoming sign code but again we we don't know at this point What's going to be adopted I will say that both signs that I approved met the current code and they will meet the code if it's adopted as drafted so they're in the clear Brandon have you had any discussions about a house 102 um the radius of Hurrican in and more burdensome codes if I don't know if that might give some so there there is currently legislation just like with with hurricane Ian where there was a moratorium placed on code amendments um it's unclear if it's going to affect us here but if it gets passed there's a good chance just because we were so heavily affected um I believe that's what you were discussing so we were bringing this more for guidance we were looking for recommendation but it sounds like there are some changes that we need to make and we can can take this feedback and move forward but I do want to would especially address the um storm recovery Provisions or potential suspensions we do have different ways of addressing that for example we're currently suspending through resolution some parts of our code not related to signage but it gives the ability for property owners to renovate on Sundays for example or um you know move forward with other elements of of restoration so are you looking

for permanently greater permission for potentially temporary signage or loosening restrictions on the substantial D or the damage regulations I I mean that's a discussion that I think you have to look at uh I don't know I'm not asking for either of them I'm looking I and I I apologize and I'm always the guy that says don't bring me problems bring me resolutions I have no resolutions for you I just brought you problems that's that's fine is is that house bill written in a way that's retroactive to the day of the storm like the last one was yes and it only covers um regulations or plan amendments that are more restrictive or burdensome same language as last time some of the language we have in here is not more restrictive or burdensome it's kind of either the same or less restrictive so those could go forward okay for example the sandwich signs so anything the portions of this ordinance that are less restrictive could move forward but those that aren't would have to roll back to what it was before would if the bill passes would be stricken would be stricken yeah so that 50% would remain we don't know if it's going to pass it's still in committees and all that stuff right now and it can change as we're going forward so we're not sure okay so now we kind of just keep doing our business as usual and then if it happens then we revie it at that time okay that might be helpful as you go forward Brandon and kimle Horn if you keep in mind what's allowed now and which Provisions are more restrictive and which are less restrictive so we can identify them and in the future make it easier and there'll probably be similar questions at city council is this more restrictive than what we allow now or less restrictive for the different um tables and things

that we have and some may be the same just explain differently or put in table format it's good recommendation I would like to get some degree of consensus from the board though particularly as it relates to banners because we are so currently so prohibitive on the use of those is that something that the planning board is open to either during storm periods and in the wake of storm periods or potentially used as transitional signage between occupants of a of a building would the board like us to come back with language that addresses that well certainly from a transitional standpoint if you have someone who is took over the Windixie and the sign was there I think a banner sign could be put in place until if if a permit was applied for maybe uh we're putting in a new sign and we put up a banner sign in in the meantime but I also think during this storm you know it's it's a it's an extremely cost-effective way for these businesses who don't have signs to be able to advertise I would like to see something that allows it during these times now of course within we Pro then you have to set the standards for the Banners at that point right and I would think with that we would probably limit them to the same square footage as what they would be entitled to with an attached sign I think that's him so I think fixed banners should be allowed but they would have to be secured in a way where they don't flap around or it says here you know balloons and pendants I don't know I think we can make a more restricted definition of a banner what comes to mind to me is the Indian beastro at Dolphin Village had a like a kind of canvas sign that was held up with string that was on the facade that was

cured I they might still have it I don't know if they changed it or put a sign up but I think that sort of thing is acceptable okay and you know while they're waiting for a new sign or building the inside I think the requirement for securing it is is really important again hurricane season one lasts a while here you don't need a bun of sign flying around out there either so so do we need a is do you need a permit to put a flag pole up yes and you can have up to three flag poles per property is it three I think it said three flag polls and then could my flag say whatever I wanted my flag to say I think it's it's one flag pole three flags I believe yes we we don't we don't regulate again it's for for I think we can differentiate between commercial and non-commercial messages but if someone wanted to fly the United States flag or a you know Peace Flag or what whatever they like to do I believe that's that's permitted does it Define that it can't have a commercial message uh Flags contain yes Flags containing a commercial message shall be part of the computation of the allowable area for freestanding sign so they would still be able to have it but it would count against their maximum so you did did that answer your question or do you well and and once once we're done with the discussion I did just want to go through the recommendations from the board to make sure I captured everything because we would when when we

bring this back you can absolutely disagree with with what we drafted but we do just want to make sure we captured everything so we at least have the framework for a you know successful successful ordinance um I know there's some ambiguity and questions on how we address some of these things but I just want to make sure I got all the points so I don't have anything else okay anyone else you want to answer okay just start at the uh top um looking at freestanding signs a limit for multi-tenant developments talking about businesses when they occupy the same Frontage of a property that's been Consolidated how do we address that um potentially look at artwork or um if it doesn't work within this ordinance possibly bring back other um amendments to our code that look more at design and location context for um for signage um let's see the board is okay with signs being above the Second Story um keep them below the roof line a definition or a better description for what a lawful message is uh there were a few Corrections related to references um using mean high water line instead of Water's Edge for setbacks including requiring nightly removal of sandwich boards regardless of whether these Sandwich Board is associated with a beach business or not uh that needs to and and all of that language needs to be made consistent with the beach ordinances drafted add Turtle protection to section 26.1 General Environmental Protections um which I believe is consistent with our ordinance so we could definitely bring that in um dealing dealing with abandonment of signs um waiver of the

abandonment requirements when there is a local state of emergency and when the occupant has an active building permit for performing restoration work making sure that there's additional signage um requirements to be consistent with the passor grill overlay even if we don't currently have restrictions within the overlay um alluding to that so they could be amended in in the future and setting forth additional standards for the um the 8th Avenue overlay uh District as well make it clear in sections 26.7 D that residences are not allowed attached and freestanding signs that are listed in that table includ look into including a maximum width or aspect for signs in section 26.7 so signs can't be overly wide um again more Corrections and looking for Banner signs to be allowed when a building permit has been applied for for new signage during those transitional periods or when a sign's coming down allow a banner temporarily while the uh new signage is under review um those would be fixed banners so they would not be able to be um strung up or be wind signs they could be attached to the facade of the building um potentially also look at tying allowance for banners to a state of emergency so they would be able to be used during emergency periods uh those were the major items I wrote down did you capture anything else um the only thing that I'd ask for that's consistent with mine uh Brandon the only thing I'd ask for consistency on is we primarily spoke to the maximum height not being above the or being permitted above the Second Story um within the um large resort District um I just wanted Clarity if that would apply to all districts where we have a maximum um signage height because that is one that um would obviously have some effect on

design so this would apply also to um table 2617 a we spoke about 17b in 17 C and D there's a maximum height above the first floor I would personally think larges ORD in perhaps rfm uh but the the rest keep keep it as is could you differentiate the two signs attached to a building as opposed to poll signs is that what we're and this is specific to attached signage um I the way it's currently drafted the the resort districts as you mentioned they do not have that story limitation the districts that allow for mixed use where you would typically have one or two stories of commercial at the ground level and then residential or lodging above for the larger developments they do have that limitation keeping them at the the second level um so I would to to be consistent I believe 267b there would be no height limitation um 26.7 a would be permitted signage taller as well as the tc1 and two out of c um so we could just completely remove the limitation on height we could just limit it to the height of the building it of course can't be on on the roof as directed or we could limited to the we could effectively just bring in the current limitations from the code and and apply those in the particular districts should there be a distance off of the crest of the building as well a maximum we could do that as well I think our current language prohibits anything

above the any structural element of the roof I'd have to look exactly how it's defined but would you just nothing above the even line or pared what language like that worda the fascia okay cuz that would prevent if a building had a more sloped roof I don't think we'd want signs mounted to a sloped roof sure understood you could just say nothing on the roof right only yeah we'll take a look at some different options but I think we've got the the intent there yeah thank was there anything that we missed in our summary anything else all right thank you okay we will journ as a local planning agency and to motion before no no we know yeah it sounds like you're going to okay modify bring it back okay anything else we need to take care before we uh leave under discussion items I did just have one quick announcement um we have scheduled the we had a successful um engagement meeting for the kickoff of the comprehensive plan last week we have scheduled the remainder of the meetings uh we have one meeting before the planning board next meets as well as one on at the very beginning of May uh the next meeting will be pertaining to the Town Center zoning districts and that will be on April 17th um May 1st will Sor I'm sorry I got them in in Reverse April 17th will be the large resort May 1st will be the Town Center one and two land use

categories those will both be held at the community center Ballroom sorry Rec Center ballroom and they will be at 6:30 so we'll be posting these on social media we'll be sending out notices to those within our mailing radius but I just wanted to make sure the board had those and I know I stumbled over this a few times so it's April 17th for the large resort District May 1st for the Town Center districts and that will be at 6:30 in the recreation center Ballroom okay um I should we we should adjourn as a local planning agency first right before we have discussion items from the board yes that'd be great okay uh we'll reconvene as the planning board um the is there any ongoing reporting that you get from the consultant as these meetings are held so we can see what concerns are voiced before the next meetings occur we should be getting information in um I'll speak with our planner handling that you would would you like those reports as they come in that would be ideal because or or if you receive public comment from people that aren't able to attend those meetings uh we can perhaps voice those concerns for for them or ask those questions but also it it would help to know what people are thinking as this process continues so we can perhaps give thought to what they want to know or what they're concerned about and and come up with their own questions or concerns MH absolutely so chair har I did attend the last one um and it's all public comment so I I'll start by saying that it's uh it's a very much like they start with a phone po poll um and ask um you know what do you can consider to be you know your priority for the for the city um you know what would you like to see more of what would you like to see less of and then they broke out into um basically uh

panel boards with had um pictorial um large resort residential and just um pictures of different types of construction um modern um key kind of style like and had people put dots on everything and just say like so it's very interactive and I just say that in capturing comments it's the whole thing is comments it's super it's very impactive form that they're using so was interesting yeah we we had one of those uh I think the FD sponsored it uh I feel like it was a year and a half ago and then I never heard anything else on on Street ordinances and widening and narrowing and um so it it would certainly be useful if we could hear what was coming out of it versus uh we'll send you a report in a couple years and well I I'll I'll speak with our planer and we'll send over what we have okay anything else okay uh this meeting is adjourned thank you