Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay. The uh November meeting of the Troy Planning Board will come to order. Uh will you stand please? We'll have a pledge of allegiance. Uh Mr. Dickson, will you lead us please? To the flag of the United States of America and to the stands one indivisibley andice for all. Call the role. Board member Shoufel absent. Board member York here. Board member Scully here.

Board member Dickinson here. Board member Kio here. Have a quorum. First item of business is approval of the uh minutes, the revised minutes of the September meeting. Is there has everyone had an opportunity to review them? Yes. Is there a motion? There's a motion that we accept the minutes of last month's meeting. The September meeting. September. Yes. I second that. Yes. Uh discussion. All in favor say I. I. Oppos say no. And the motion carries unanimous. Now we have the October minutes. Have you all had an opportunity to review them? Yes.

Is there a motion? I make a motion that we accept the minute meetings of October. Thank you. A second. I'll second. Uh discussion on the motion. All in favor say I. I. Oppos say no. The motion carries unanimously. Okay. So, uh, all of the business on the agenda tonight is old business. So, we'll start with 20250054 79 Brunswick Road. The applicant here? Yes. How are you doing? Hi. Hi.

My name is Neil Palone. I'm an architect representing the Catholic Dascese for 79 Brunswick Road. Uh, the applicant's hoping to demolish an existing residential building on their property that was previously used as a caretaker's residence. Um, is that Mike? Um, can you hear me? Is that better? Yeah. You want me to start over? Right out of there if you'd like. There we go. Do you want me to start over? That's good. No, we heard you. Okay.

Thanks. Um, the property has been dilapitated and in disrepair. They're hoping to take it down before it's any more of a nuisance or eyesore. Uh, removing it will help improve the visual access of Brunswick. That's what they like to do. It's not going to be replaced with anything. It is not. Okay. Any questions for the applicant? No.

All right. Thank you. We'll see if the is there any member of the public who'd like to comment on this application? If if not, we'll close the public hearing and we'll open it up to board discussion. Is there anybody on Zoom? Pardon me? Anybody on Zoom? Anyone on Zoom? Yep. All right. Any uh comments or questions for the board? No. No. So uh so it's on before us for final approval. Is there a motion? Like to move to give a final approval to PLB 20250054. I'll second.

Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? Yeah. Should we call the roll individually by accommodation or roll call if you don't? Yeah. I maybe just call the RO. Uh member Scarley I. Member Dickinson I. Member York I. Chairman Kio I. Motion carries unanimously. Good luck. I think we have a preliminary question with respect to uh 2023 0045 is that correct?

Yeah. Okay. So this has a history here I guess is um because of the announced plans of the applicant uh Mr. Corp council do we treat this as a new application? I think this is a different project in scope and uh design. So I think it should must be treated as a new application. All right. It's just all it really shares with the prior project is the same location. Okay.

I'm going to share my screen. Good evening board. Uh my name is Greg Connor with Architecture Plus. I'm representing Unity House. Could you uh get a little closer to the mic? I'm having a little trouble. Can we control the volume here at all? That better? You can control the volume by

Yeah, it's just hard to see the screen closer, I guess. So, um, we presented this project back in May. Um, the project is at 185 Earl Street. It's roughly a 500 foot building, uh, with a 500 foot addition. When we got into construction, um, this late summer into fall, I found that the building was pretty much structurally compromised. Um, we had a structural engineer come out and review the project and it did become a safety issue for construction. So, Unity House wanted to go back to the board. um to de demolish the existing building and rebuild in in similar kind in the same footprint with some minor adjustments um to the previous uh approval. So the overall the site plan more or less stayed the same. We shifted uh pedestrian crosswalk crossing Earl Street down a little further south. Originally we were going through this existing guard rail. The building itself step back six inches. So this entire concrete walkway ramp is now on the entire parcel. Previously the existing stair overlaps the property line. So we wanted to make sure we have everything on our property.

So more or less the square footage of the building has stayed the same. It's roughly45 square feet. Um, previously we did uh put the garbage in the rear of the building and we were looking to do a easement agreement um with the north property which Unity House does own as well to allow for uh garbage to be brought up front to the Earl Street for pickup by private um company. Eric did send the staff um notes. So, there are a couple things that we do have to revise, including sight lighting, um, pedestrian signage for, you know, when you're crossing this sidewalk here. Um, obviously, we still need to get the garbage agreement with Unity House's private pickup, which is Cassella. They have an agreement now currently with their property on Sixth Street. Um, they don't have an agreement yet with this. They do have a an a um commitment letter that they were willing to give But obviously we still need to get their agreement once that's uh the project is deemed to move forward.

Excuse me. What did you say about the easement? Did you mention the easement also? Yeah. So Unity House still has to get the they have to give theelves an easement for the property that they own on the north side. So we just need to iron. But it hasn't been done yet. I know. Is that the garages? Yeah. And so just so you guys are aware that north garage that they did own that was demolished through a permit. So that no no no no longer exists on that north property.

And then we did want to make some adjustments to the elevations of the building since it's being all brand new. Um we wanted to kind of match the existing character of the building to an extent. Um but with costs incurred with de demolishing the existing building looking to just do fiber cement siding some trim details. There will be signage on the building the front which we will be meeting city ordinances. The building will be a two-story building now will not have a basement which it had originally. The other item just to note um in the staff report was the 50% transparency transparency on the first floor because the building is only roughly 25 ft wide. It's a little bit difficult to get the extent of glass in there to meet that.

But it can be the transparency can be on any side of the building, right? To meet that requirement. I believe it's public facing just the public facing street. Is it? Is that correct? We do have a window on the north side of the property, but I don't believe I can account for that in that sign. I think that was about it. Certainly open to questions, comments. What What is your calculation of the transparency percentage? It's roughly 20%. 20. Will they need a zoning variance for that?

And it's also um was noted that there might be asphalt for sidewalks. Are you putting concrete sidewalks in? Yeah. So, we would do concrete sidewalks along this side. We can adjust that. Okay. Is Earl Street one way or two? Two-way. It's a two-way. It's a two-way. And the dark black that we're seeing there is at the crosswalk, correct? Okay. Um, and I noticed that they um recommend it slow for pedestrians. I think it should be please stop for pedestrians. We would follow whatever city requirement, but have to look at the specifics.

Guess the only issue with the seeking the variance with the 50% um we'd certainly be open to providing as much glass as possible on that first floor. um just because it's right at street level um does pose a kind of a security issue with um the driving back and forth. So obviously we like to minimize as much as possible where we can and keep it above the grade. Um if I might u Greg is that the same elevation that you submitted? It's not. So this is

so we haven't had a chance to review these elevations for the record. Well, to increase it with that style building, it's gonna make it look a little odd, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, we're trying to match what the original building was to an extent with a bunch of windows because it's kind of a teaching kitchen. It's not really retail. I know the code says 50%. But did I hear you say you're building on a slab or Yeah, slab on grape. your filling in the basement that was there. Yep.

So, you you've seen the staff recommendations. Do you have any problem with any of those? Just the urgency of moving the project forward. Obviously, it's pardon me. Just the the urgency of moving the project forward since it's been delayed with um the demolition issues. Um it's going towards the zoning variance for the transparencies. What do you expect tonight from us? Would it be possible to have a conditional approval with modifications? I guess that's I think that'll be a legal question too.

Yeah, I I think they have to come back anyways. I'm treating as I mean you're you're tearing down the structure that was there and putting up a whole new structure on the site. So really, it's a new application. Um, you can decide whether or not the application is complete. Uh, though Eric mentioned that he hadn't reviewed the these elevations, but uh, I still think I mean subject to the the staff review of the elevations. I think they've submitted quite a bit of material. They will have to go to zoning though for the variance. They should do that then come back for a final approval here. That's our normal process. And then if we did meet the requirement for the 50% which we did a diagram just to represent what that potentially would look like this is really only meeting 45% of that but without seeking a variance um I guess would be impossible to

even making the the 25 foot clear mostly across except for the door. You're still not at 50%. Yeah, with this diagram it you're counting. So that's not 50%. It's 45%. Really? Yeah. All the areas around it trying to be as accurate as possible. So you do need a variance. We would, but yeah, it's just the time fra time frame that Right. Well, we can't can we do anything about the transparency issue? It has to go. No, that has to go to zoning.

I mean, that's it's unfortunate, but I mean, I can see why they want a variance. Yeah, the design that you presented is, but it's nice for a residential building. It looks almost like cape, but um yeah, I don't think we can do anything until we get that. You could you could still consider the application complete. And yeah, you can do that schedule for after ZVA. Okay. You know, continue on ZVA approval variances. So, you know, basically the big items here are the variance which is in your control really, right? And then, you know, subject to

zoning approval on the variance for the 50% uh light on the first floor. Um, that's where we're at. This might not be question you could answer, but would it be possible to get on the next var of appeal agenda? I know that has passed, but I believe the deadline Angie has is the 12th. Uh, let me double check.

Yeah. Um, I'd reach out to Angelina, but I'm fairly certain that the deadline was last Wednesday. uh see you know see if she can accommodate you but I can't give a guarantee. It's up to her. I mean it is a fairly simple application. So right maybe she'll make an exception for you if you ask her nicely. So but we could say hey this is complete with the exception of these items and then schedule a hearing. Yes. for the next reg for the next right that'd be the best we could do I guess. Yeah, I feel like we're on next next available after they get the variance.

Next available meeting after we get the variance, right? Which potentially would be December at the So Eric is going to be okay with looking at the modified. Yeah, I just made note that he brought up an image that I hadn't seen. There was a different elevation submitted with this packet. So, is that the only real difference between what you submitted previously and and your submission tonight? Is it just the streetscape or is anything else that Eric is going to have to look at? No, it's just a street. Yeah, it's still a second floor, second story building. Okay.

Well, let's see if there any public comment can take some motions. Do you have anything further? That's it. Okay. Thanks. We'll see if that if there's any public comment. Is there anyone here to speak uh with respect to this application? Uh it looks like not. So we can we'll have a little board discussion here and see if there's any motions to be made. For the record, I'd still call this a type two based on 617.5 C2 of the New York State Seeker law. So um so it's still it wouldn't require to make any motions on seeker. Okay. No motions this evening. Seeker is not not in play here, but reconstructing in place. So

declare it complete though. You could declare the application to be a type two if you wanted to. U but yeah, you'll be reviewing the application for completeness. You could schedule a hearing. So you might have a motion to to declare type two for no further review required environmental review required and a motion to determine whether or not the application is com to whether the application is complete. So no further a motion with respect to no further environmental review is required if it's a type two.

Right. So I guess you know that's where I see it going here is it's type two. We're gonna uh and then I would propose that we uh condition the completeness on the submissions of the easement and uh the variance of the transparency on the ground floor which I hope you get. Um so in the garbage servicing agreement do we right which is you could you can condition those when if you schedule a public hearing in the actual approval as well.

Oh even after after we approve we can still condition those things so they couldn't go forward. Yeah, but hopefully the applic you guys Yeah, I I would I would I would create this list of things that you the hearing itself and then they can come back for their final hearing with these items, right? Sort of updated. So, I don't know that you need to condition anything this evening. Okay. We use the term application complete but like it things can still change and be modified and added approval even though we you know move to make the just means it's application is complete enough to the hearing right and so is there first a secret motion

uh yeah I'd like to move to uh call this a type two action or seeker there's no environmental impact second I'll second I know. Any discussion? All in favor? I oppose say no. Motion carries unanimously. Another motion. I'd like to make a motion to declare the application complete. Is there a second? I second that motion. Thank you. Discussion on the motion. Uh, all in favor say I. I. Oppose say no. Motion carries unanimously.

Thank you. Do you want to schedule the hearing for public? Yes. December motion to schedule public hearing at the next meeting, which is presuming December 16th is have been resolved. Okay. I'll make a motion that we uh move to have this at a public hearing on December 16th. I second that motion. Discussion. All in favor say I. I oppos say no. Motion carried unanimously. Thank you.

You all set Joe?

Yeah. Go share screen. Call 20250038 15 to 25th Street. Sketch plan and concept review. Good evening with the environmental design partnership here on behalf of RJ Valente Companies and our application for Bella Apartments which is a 196 unit apartment building.

John, you just pulled the microphone up. Just I would probably just pull it out. Get it? How about that? That's good. All right, that's better.

All right, so we got a 196 unit apartment building to be located at the location of the former Uncle Sam's parking garage. Uh we were last in front of this board in September um in which there were some uh comments raised by the board related to some of the architectural features of the building. There was a lot of discussion about the uh uh disposition of museum place uh adjacent to the hotel. Uh there was conversation about the uh colonades or the peers that were into the street right away among some other things. So we did uh take that information. We went uh back to the drawing board. Uh we shrunk the footprint of the building. there's no longer encroachments into the rightway from the colonades extending into the street. So, we don't need to worry about that anymore. Um, we also had a meeting here at city hall with the owners of the adjacent hotel to the north and Museum Place. Um, and we came to an agreement that Museum Place uh will remain. Uh we're providing uh I think 13 parking spaces along what is known as museum place for use by the hotel. Uh then we're also doing some minor modifications on the hotel property to help out with circulation uh and number of curb cuts to be able to minimize uh conflict points. Um so we were able to work that out. Um we also uh the architects went back and completed some additional uh elevations which were submitted to the board. We also have some uh perspective views now uh that I'll be sharing with the board uh shortly. um fire apparatus. Uh we provided on the plan.

See this area here. We have added stair access from third street that will give you direct access to the courtyard on the second floor of the building. Uh that was something that emergency fourth. Third. Oh no, third. Okay. Confused me there. It gives you access to what did you say?

The uh courtyard that is located on the second floor of the building. Uh so the way the project is set up point it out the entire footprint of the site is generally covered by the first floor which is a first story parking garage. on top of the parking garage. This dashed line outlines the four stories that are above the parking garage. This area here, and we'll show you in one of the renders, um is designated as a courtyard outdoor amenity space. Uh it's about 20 to 25% of the site which we're looking to do some types of sports courts, outdoor um uh outdoor picnic areas, green space, trees growing. Uh we're using that area of the site as our uh uh pvious area. So there will be a uh essentially a green roof if you will say for a portion of it to meet the 15% pvious uh requirement by the code. Um, you know, definitely had to get creative to try and meet 15% pvious on a site that's 100% impervious when we started. Uh, but that's what we came up with, uh, for that. Um, we have on the basement, I'm showing another view, uh, 236 parking spaces. That's essentially one space for every bedroom within the building. We have bike storage area for nearly uh 80 long-term secure storage bike parking. And then we have uh just shy of 50 short-term which is basically outdoor bike racks uh parking for the facility.

Will they be on your property or on the rightway?

They will be on our property. the beginning here. So, this is looking at the building. We're looking We're standing across the street looking at the building on Fourth Street. Um, centered where you see the N centered where you see the 19 on the building. This is the primary entrance to the residence, their lobby area, um, parking garage entrance on Fourth Street as well. And we're also proposing a coffee shop with an outdoor dining experience located on Fourth Street. Uh the colonades you can see was a a feature that we wanted to keep. However, we did shrink the building and push them out of the rightway. Um so we do have some covered and uncovered outdoor dining spaces.

Does that continue around? Yes. Design for the colon setback. Yes. Before you go off this slide, is that um the white building to the left? Is that the coffee shop area this here? No, the white. Well, yes. Right. No. So, this is the coffee shop. This is on our property. It's on our frontage on Fourth Street. I'm just interested in the windows on that white building to the left. Yes. Is that is that windows all the way down to the street or No. So, this if you look in it, uh these are columns. Oh, okay. And then the front the facade of the building set about 10 feet back from there. What's back there? Nothing. So behind that that is the coffee shop that's set

behind the colony behind the peers or the colonades is the coffee shop. Correct. Basically is what is it? A window or there's a wall there. I assume the coffee shop's not outdoors is it? Right. So if you look uh you can see windows looking into there. basically a uh a commercial storefront on the street set back in behind the colonades to give that But you're pointing are you pointing to the brick bu the red brick style building or the white building next? So it's basically from here to about here is the coffee shop. It's not just set into just the white building.

Okay, I I'll look at the floor. So, so to be clear that, you know, we have sidewalk that's city sidewalk, then you have the colonades and that's a walkway that's kind of got a roof over it, let's say. Yes. That's your sidewalk. Yep. And then the storefront set back, you know, along there. So, correct. Yeah. Well, what I'm getting at is my, you know, what I didn't like about this when it was presented was it it seemed like, you know, that whole street, not only that street, but the the museum side, street side and the third street side and the what is that? What's the next street? Broadway

Fton Pton. It all seemed like, you know, very unfriendly territory for any for pedestrians. There was nothing there except for blank walls all around the whole whole project. So, I mean, if you have if you have a coffee shop there, I guess that's an island where people could escape into if they need to. But what else is going on on on any side of this building as far as, you know, inviting the community in and making it an amenity for the community rather than kind of just a fortress that keeps the community out. So, it it's not not designed to keep the community out, but it is a private building in the first place.

Understand? I'm talking more about the feel of it, right? And and and by doing that, I mean, this is the streetscape on Fourth Street. Um to me, this is extremely inviting for the community to utilize this frontage. We have the the shop front uh appearance. We have shop fronts. We have storefrs. We have outdoor dining experience. I'm not sure how much more we could do. It's better. I I wish you I wish you could think of some novel use for some of that space other than parking on the on the ground level, you know. So, we

I know commercial is not there's not much need for that, but I wish there was something you could think of to make it more interactive with the community. I mean, I'm not sure with what we need to do for the building and provide parking spaces

there. there's really not, you know, room left. However, there is portions of the code and the way the building is set up that the first 30 feet around the building in the future as we look at future development and cars become less in demand and we get more and more foot traffic and more and more downtown. If there's not a demand for that parking, there's the opportunity on Fulton Street, not so much on Museum Place because it's not really public frontage over there, but on Fton Street where additional commercial storefronts um that do bring uh people into the community could ultimately be established in the future. They're not part of the plan. We're not proposing part of the plan. We were told um at a lot of the public meetings, we do not need any more commercial storefront shop fronts in this area.

Yeah, we don't need any more empty ones.

They haven't done anything with nothing record. what we're kind of talking about and some of the information that's been sent to us um which I don't know if you've seen or not but you know the first floor activating the first floor of the building instead of making Falton Street all of a sudden a no man's land on that one side even though you have this great setback with the columns you know which is cool yeah that's all right but all you're going to see is parked cars at the first floor level when you walk by and that's going to create a kind of a desert right going across there. Now I understand there isn't a demand for you know the commercial space but I don't know if you know some brilliant architects could come up with a way so that that we don't end up with a dead uh a dead zone on that sidewalk.

So I mean what we have this is the Folton Street frontage here. Sure. Um there is so that's the corner of Fton and third Fton and Fourth. Here's our Fton. Wait, Fourth Street is running this way. Streets coming into the site that way. Gotcha. So this is where we come around Fourth Street wrap around and this is the proposal for the frontage. So it's not parked cars. There is um building there is a building wall there. There is a facade. There is uh grading. There's vegetation growing on there,

but there's no activity. So, and you know, if I was cold and I needed a place to sleep, that might be a good place to sleep. Well, I I um it it's something we can look into. It is not part of our proposal to create shelters. That's why we're here. Yeah.

I I I don't see that working with this site plan. Well, I'm bringing it up because I'm bringing it up because, you know, this is obviously a very we want the project. Obviously, everybody wants the project and we want to do the best job we can. And looking forward, what if, you know, you're saying, "What if in the future there's more demand?" Well, that's great. But in the short run, what if there isn't demand and we end up on Fulton Street with a parking garage in the first floor in these great apartments above? you know, the community, you know, is it's important that we continue activating the streetscapes as much as possible all around the city. And we've done a great job. And if you look at Fulton Street right now, it's finally activated. There's things going on on Fulton Street that weren't there before and people doing apartments and restaurants and things like that. Um, so the downtown is expanding that way as a foot, you know, foot traffic area, whereas the Uncle Sam garage previously wasn't so much. But I can say that right now, you know, it's a dark area right now, but that seems like an attraction for people to hang out outside of the weather when there's nothing really positive to give us other than the view of the cars. Is there a way we can screen the cars differently or activate it differently?

So that there, as I was saying, there is screening associated with this and so we can still see into the parking garage. I if you're walking up to this this this uh mesh screen, if you will, and looking into it from a few feet away, yes,

you will be able to see the cars. Walking down the street, you're going to see more of a um a black screen with some vegetation and plants we're trying to uh establish and grow there. And as you see, we have the um the plant hangers. We don't have street lights shown on here, but there are street lights. We have tree planters uh that are shown on the site plan uh in the sidewalks um to create a a a green environment as we are going uh down the street.

I hear what you're saying. We can we can talk with the owners. Yeah, I think see what they can do.

This is still a back and forth. You still have some things that you have to do anyway. So, you know, this is our opportunity to kind of present some of the comments that we have or that were presented to us. Um, you know, and continue this going forward. You know, you know, I think that you've done some things that are that are better than the last submitt, the last presentation. You know, you know, we're all on the same page. We want a great project here and we want be successful for you, too. So that's all we're doing that when we ask about where you know where where's the coffee shop you know that's all we're doing just asking these questions we're not demanding you do anything we're just saying this is way we see things maybe this is an issue we should talk about that's all

understood and we'll take it under advisement good is there any entrance to the apartments on the Fton Street side yes and that's uh right here in this area this will give you access to the parking garage an elevator. Believe it's about 2/3 of the way down Fulton Street. Closer to third from fourth. Show that on site. That'll be access controlled I assume for the for the tenants.

Correct. Yeah. The the parking garage is completely keycoded access. Um that's also where the secure storage is for the bikes and trash there as well. Uh this is another perspective. This is looking at the intersection of Museum Place is on the left and third street is on the right. Um this gives our first glimpse of the second floor courtyard area uh which is the outdoor one of the outdoor amenity spaces for the community. Uh you can also see in the center wing of the building on the fifth floor there's an outdoor rooftop area um as amenity space for the residents of this community.

So is is that third and museum place that we're looking at. Correct. This is museum place where we do have an entrance to the building located in this column. Uh the parallel parking. This is the hotel parking in this location. So we're we're looking from the top of that bread building. We would actually be looking out over uh Riverfront Park. Correct. Okay. This is the facade facing Riverfront Park. Okay. Uh we also have and it's CDTA bus is blocking it. There is an entrance to the parking garage centered on that street.

Is that is that the only entrance on that side of the on third street? Correct. The parking garage. Correct. Where's the staircase that you said goes up to the uh it's hard to see it here. Uh but it is shown on the plans. It is in this location over here. Yeah. And is that going to be controlled access also?

Absolutely. So, this is back over on Museum Place on the right and Fourth Street on the left. Again, primary facade, primary entrance to the building, museum place entrance to the building here. Uh, this would be the facade facing the hotel and on Fourth Street. One thing I want to point out the uh first floor in this corner of the building uh is a call it a shop front but it is being uh set up for utilization by the CDTA bus drivers uh on breaks uh when they come back from their roofs they have 10 15 minutes it's essentially a break room bathroom uh for them to utilize so that is something we are doing for uh the community there.

Can I ask you about this courtyard for a minute? So, uh, it's I assume it's not covered. Correct. Correct. So, I mean, I think the experience that I've seen around Troy whenever anybody's tried to create that kind of a outdoor space, it's good for about three months and then it's a problem for the rest of the year and usually it deteriorates and is unused and all that stuff. Is that I mean this this your tenants are going to be using this, right? Correct. What are they going to do there in the winter time? Um, you know, that's something to be talking about. Are we going to have uh skating painted sidewalks? Are we going to have uh skating rink? Um, probably not.

I mean, I've seen so many I don't think our uh climate really is very conducive to that kind of thing. Use it. Well, I hate to get rid of it. I think it's a nice amenity overlooking the Riverview Park and the Hudson River. Yeah. Um, and I think we want it as an amenity space. We think it's a great asset to the project. I would uh really hesitate to get rid of it to determine the future of pickle ball would Yeah. Right. Can we use something that would go longer than So that that courtyard you just said seeing Riverfront Park. U did I miss something? How how would you see the park um from the courtyard? It's this way. Have you got a floor

facing the rivers view? So this view here, this is Third Street. Oh, so that's this is Riverview Park. Courtyard is right here. Yeah. Okay. So that all all of the units are set up or a good portion of them with this angled um angled portion of the building. So, the units themselves have river views associated with them and then the courtyard and the amenity space and the fifth story uh rooftop all have views of the river and Riverview Park. So, basically that is a C-shaped structure. Yes. Almost like

So, so back to Peter's point about and Jim's the the pickle ball courts because that's what they actually look like. Um, would there be consideration to to cover those? Because I mean, the majority of the year the weather is not conducive to to to pickle ball. That court probably doesn't get used. It probably gets wrecked from the weather. So, would there be a thought of of maybe some sort of a covering um a way to cover that, you know, so that it can be used also? I'm not going to say no. Um,

definitely something we can look into it. It's it's a uh it makes sense. I don't know what the expense of trying to do a temporary cover or permanent cover. Permanent cover, I think, is going to hinder some of the views of the building from the height we're going to need. I think you'd start blocking the third story view with it. But, uh, it's definitely an interesting concept. And then, you know, from we're not saying it's going to be pickle ball courts, right? Okay.

You know, we we're showing some amenity space right now. Pickle ball is the hottest thing. I think there's senior citizens having fist fights at pickle ball courts for getting getting more time at them right now. So, um but you know, we we do want to have an active amenity space associated with this project. So, in the wintertime, would it be possible to put like um gas heaters, you know, the tall gas heaters out there or maybe have um fire pit gas fire pits or, you know, stuff like that where it gets, you know, could use them in the spring, could definitely use them in the fall. um don't know what you do in dead of winter, but you know, give them a little bit month here or month there on either end to be able to use that area by putting out some uh

I'm sure if the gas heaters fire department will allow that is something we would definitely include within the within the plants.

So, that brings up a you know, a question. I mean, it's pretty goodized project. I love it. You know, I think it's great for the city. Um, you know, have you done any kind of research on where you're going to be with what the tenants actually would want in that space? I mean, we've got a lot of parking, that's for sure. Um, some other buildings are going with even less parking. 40% of the people who live in the news have no parking, no car. They're not driving cars. Have you done any is there any market research? You know, this people saying, I want a pickle ball court or I want a a grill. I mean, you know, I think it would be up to the tenants and you guys to decide what activates that courtyard. Um, yeah, 100% to your benefit,

right? And I don't want to say like again what's on this plan today. Yeah. That outdoor amenity space is going to be an evolving area as it is with any amenity space in any community. I agree. you know, if your tenants come to you and and they want to have a tether ball cork thrown out there, then all I guess the question is, have you have you done any you have you gotten any feedback from the people who would be likely to rent these types of apartments? I think they're beautiful. By the way, essentially there I'd say no from an amenity standpoint. Okay. Um, however, knowing the market we are looking at in the buildings that have gone up in various communities and the amenities associated with them that are successful, that's what we're basing what we will at least be starting with

uh in those amenity spaces. So, you mean like Starbucks Island has a wine store? I mean, that would be an amenity to the tenants maybe. I don't know. But, you know, um, you know, so that was just the question, you know, how far along are are you with that type of thing? I mean, we definitely want your apartments to be 100% full. Um, so so we and Yeah. Yeah. It would be, you know, it' be awful if it that doesn't happen. Um, so I the question is, have you gotten any feedback from people who would be likely to rent this type of thing or have you done any research on an inner city development like this that would what do what do people want?

Right. And and again, it's it's based on experience at this point of Okay. the uh similar styled projects in different cities, uh different suburban areas. Uh the clientele that we would expect living here, uh will have cars and likely will be commuting to a job or potentially working from home in their home offices as that's seems to continue to grow in in popularity.

Um so we've looked at those projects. We looked at the demographic that we believe is going to be renting at these locations and we looked at similar projects and the amenities, the parking associated with them and that's how we've come to the to to the initial ideas of what we want to do in those spaces. Can you share with us what that is? What what's your is it going to be one bedroom, twobedroom, three? So it's a mix of studios, onebedroom, onebedroom dens and two bedrooms. And you're do you have a price range in mind yet? Um haven't haven't established that yet. Obviously, it's going to be a uh market rate driven.

Um yeah, a lot goes into the into the pricing cost of the building return you know through through uh you know mortgages and lenders. But max twobedroom is it? Yes. Yes. And is that um on that corner it looks like all glass. Is that stairway or is that part of a residence? Those are part of the residence. Wow. And the same on the other corner of that same building. Correct. And on the other tower. Oh, it's a lot of glass. It is beautiful. Yeah. You do um I noticed you have studio A, studio B. What is the difference between your A and B?

Honestly, I can't tell the difference. I'm assuming it's a square footage difference. slight square footage difference. Um I I I don't have the detail on that. Okay.

See, is this a change from the last presentation? Is the Cornish uh it looks like the elevation, you know, I'm not saying this is a negative. I'm just saying is this a difference from your last presentation? How the Cornish goes around and how the building is going in and out. Um, was that be there before just or is that as a result of our pre comments? It has changed, you know, based on some of the comments and the materials. I think

um our our last presentation had much less brick. We've added a lot more brick. We added more glass. We've changed the materials on the cornice, amplified the uh the depth and the fence duration along the cornises. So, um the courtyard going back to that and you know obviously these are suggested colors that you know you have white um you know the sun really beats on that area in in the summertime. Riverfront Park gets unbearable when there's rocking on the river sometimes. um you know has the environment that way not the environment that you're affecting but the environment as it affects you has that taken in consideration there I mean you know the pickle ball court could be 100 degrees and uh

as we all know old people we don't want them yeah we don't want the ambulance to go get the old people yeah understood you know there there are pergolas shown in that area to create some shade uh if shading is going to

I think more green, more trees, those types of things would you know definitely helpful with all of that. Yeah. So I mean we we are proposing vegetation, greenery, pergas, sun becomes an issue. Um shade sales uh those uh triangular triangular square shapes. There's a bunch of different right uh ways to do that as well. You know, this is a western view. Yeah, it's not a southern view. So, we are going to get the late afternoon sun and hopefully some excellent sunsets as well, if you will. And some days it's going to be extremely hot.

Yeah. And uh you know, the rest of the year it's going to be like, thank God, you know, but uh the pvious uh so this is above the parking garage. all of this and uh we're saying we're trying to meet 15% pvious. Um how is that foot physically going to work? I mean you're not you're not going to the city storm water sewer with the pvious correct? How we how are we making that pvious? So um are you familiar with like a green roof design? Got it. Okay. So there is a you know this is going to be so it kind of just settles into the to the soils. settles into the soils, settles into the filter media, right?

There is an overflow in connection to the city sewers as okay that is required over the the structure. Um but that is you know essentially these green areas will infiltrate the plants will take up the water reduces the amount of storm water that ultimately ends up in the city and into the river. Good. Could you go back to the uh view of the third? Look it up. Third street. Know when to stop. There was a pre that one right there. So maybe not that one. That is third. No, that's not that is not a this one.

Yeah, that one. So isn't there quite a change in grade from say museum place up to Fton Street? Yes.

And what what goes on in your building with respect to that change in grade? So in this area of the site, our sidewalk grade is about two to three feet below the finished floor of the building. And when we get up to the intersection of Fulton and third, the uh sidewalk is actually like two to three feet above the finished floor of the building. And right in the middle is where we have our center access point, which is essentially great. the the car access to the garages on third street and fourth street because of the grade basically. Yes. Yep. We looked at grades and and determined what were the best spots for vehicular access and pedestrian access.

So that three or four foot difference on the north side. Is that a slab then or what or is there another is there another space below ground there or is it a slab at the three-foot level? Basically, it be it'd be essentially a slab at three-foot level with a um essentially the the exterior walls are extended lower in that area. Yeah. Gotcha. Chair, can I ask?

Yeah. Uh have you made any provision or given any thought to snow removal with respect to the uh uh courtyard? Um, again, that's where we potentially were talking about uh heated sidewalks to melt the snow and then the green areas would remain covered in snow. That that not saying that's 100% the way we're going. There's an expense associated with that. Uh, but we are that is one of the elements that we are looking at. And also if we're looking at a lot of pvious surfaces like a pvious porous pavement um many times those are the first areas um to melt just by natural sunlight. You don't get ice build up. They they melt themselves right down into the ground. So uh bigger picture question is you know we're in going into winter. Um, how do you see yourself working your way through the things that you still have to do? How do you see us getting to the point where we have an agreement and approval? Is the construction scheduled to start early spring? Is that the plan?

Construction scheduled to start as soon as we get approval. Um, our our next step is we have developed a full set of uh engineer drawings

for uh the site work associated with this. Um we will be submitting them next week to come in for a December meeting. Um we are hoping at that point in time that the application is deemed complete and we can start the coordinated review and then come back uh after 30 days and I believe it's probably going to February by the time we get through that 30-day process uh and come back to this board in February. The other thing that we need to talk about is we're talking a lot about the architecture and the style of the building. Um there was question if this does need to go to the historic design commission and what needs to be what this board is going to recommend for them uh to look at in addition to their normal review those two elements. A lot of the other elements based upon the staff review letters um we we very comfortable that we're going to have that included with this next submission. We haven't started engineering review of the site. I'm not sure if Chris is going to do that or if there's going to be a third party review associated with that, but I'm assuming that occurs once the application's deemed complete. So, we're we're hoping to come back in December and have the application deemed complete.

Ambitious. been working on it for a while already. Yeah. Yeah. On uh Joe, on your fourth street where your coffee shop is going to be, you said there was store frontage. Are you going to have stores? The the shop front appearance. Um we're saying in coffee shop, maybe it's going to be a different bagels. Bagels. You need a bagel.

You need You got to go to New York to get bagels. So uh but basically half of the frontage is storefront for the coffee shop. Okay. The rest of the frontage is um lobby uh amenity space associated with the residential use but made to look again like a storefront. Anything else folks? Um you've seen the staff recommendations. Do you have pro any problem with any of those? It's preliminary. Anyways,

I I don't I do want to talk to uh Eric a little bit about I started touching on it that 30 foot comment 30 foot reserve parking area. I think that's what I addressed with the future in in the idea the f the future that can be converted to commercial. I I I guess I needed to I'll give you a call on that and we can get a little more clarity on what Yeah. what you're referring to. There wasn't a code reference, so I was having a hard time. I think it was a um I think it was reference to the um front side setback for parking zone. But let's jump on a call tomorrow, this week, and kind of go over the detail.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to get the uh the architect. his heads because this is more more of a building when you get into that level of detail. So, we're trying to make sure that we're we're meeting that. We do need some variance or waiver from it. Sure. We certainly want to know that.

Other than that, I think we're we're in great shape. Uh the traffic demand management plan was submitted um albeit late. Thought it was prior prior submitted, but we did do a full traffic management traffic demand management plan in there. Uh so that is submit that is submitted. It talks about required bike parking, required parking for the building, what the recommended parking for this use is gets into some of the the statistical elements. So that that will be able to be reviewed by the board at the next meeting. Okay. And you have EV for the electric cars?

We we are EV ready. We have to work with the city because we only have indoor parking. Having indoor parking is has been a uh potential fire hazard. So, we got to work with fire department. They may not gas is not. All right. Well, thank you for your helpful helpful presentation, I think. So, we'll see if the public has any comments now. Thank you. Thank you. We'll see you back December, maybe.

Where are the tenants going to be moving in and out from? Let's say the question just depends what type of vehicle they are bringing to move in right there are three elevators three entrances to the building but the elevators are accessed from either the external street museum street and then all of them also have access from parking garage parking garage so your elevators are big enough for all the furniture and and the height of your parking will be high enough for I don't know that we're getting a flower truck

coming into the parking garage that that is something they may have to do temporary parking on the street for loading or in the parallel parking spaces have a loading zone associated with okay and in your garage you don't have to do any excavation you're just throwing down I think we're actually going to uh be filling some of the areas the existing ground closest to museum and third is actually below the flood plane elevation. So we are going to be raising that corner of the building up to make sure the parking is out of the flood.

Joe, I got a question from a representative from CDTA. He asks, did you say that if there was a dedicated CDTA driver break room? Yes. He was wondering if you could point that out or elaborate on it a little bit. Sure.

So start with its location first. share a different screen, I guess.

So, where will they park the buses for them to go use the break room on the street? I think just as they're doing now.

So, we have fourth street Bolton Street, Third Street. This corner of the building is where the dedicated break room is. Zoom in on it on the on the fourth street side or the third street. Fourth and fourth and fourth. Yeah, that's across from the bus stop. Pardon me? That's across from the bus stop. No, fourth and a museum. Where they parked now is on Third Street. Third? Yeah. So mostly they park between dinosaurs and the Uncle Sam monument. There's also a CDTA stop. There is another stop on Fourth Street side next to

Mr. Le. That was our understanding of what was agreed upon location. If if we we can move it to other corners of the building, we have access to that. I always see the buses parked all along that strip on the Third Street side. I don't really see them on Fourth Street, but CDTA should know, I Yeah, we we can work with CDTA and and like I say, we have the ability to move it to a couple different corners of the building if that makes more sense. It might be more logical at museum and third. Yes. Yeah. How do they access that? Do they have a So, they have an exterior door directly in and it's essentially a a bathroom is what is going in that?

I'm wondering if it's open to the public or if they have a a key a key card. They have like a key a keypad or something. I haven't got into that level of detail. Or they're gonna have a punch code or something like that. CTA,

we're not we're not getting any of this on the recording here. I don't think so. What Dean is saying, Dean is a uh representative of R.J. the lenting is that um we have shown these drawings to CDTA. Um they're working with us on the design. They are going to be running the security system for that. They're going to have their own. They're going to wire it. We're going to build it, but we're going to meet their specs so that they have they have control over the entire area. And this is complimementaryary to CDTA or they have to pay for it. I think you said it was a community benefit. I I I believe it is complimentary as part of the the agreement negotiation with

Okay. Anything else from one more question? Yeah, with regard to the scheduling again. Where are you at with your variances right now? As of right now, I don't know that we need any. There's a couple that have just been um I don't know if there are actually variances listed. Well, I would probably conduct a more full scale review once I have the full set of uh documents to submit. Okay. We don't believe there are any, but okay. There is, we may have to make some modifications. Okay. Garbage locations. How well how are you handling garbage? Sure. So, what we identified at the previous meeting

in the CDTA driver's lounge, they're not there that often. So, the entire building has trash shoots to this location where there are trash and recycling compactors. Those carts will then be rolled out to the third street side and picked up by the the hauler. and then brought back in by staff of the building. So, is there staff going to be there five days a week as like their job sitting in an office or

I I don't know the detail on that, but I I'm sure there is going to be a staff person on site most of the time. Okay. Anything further? Joe, you plan to the applicant plans to maintain ownership of Museum Place and and maintain it and snowplow it. That's a good question. So, they are they do own it. Um, my understanding is currently the city may actually be maintaining it, which makes no sense because it's all private, but it may be an agreement between um

the city, the the hotel and the owner of this building. That's a detail that if we need to get more clarity on, we can certainly work through that. This museum is that city street right now? Yeah, it had I believe it had CDTA ownership and then it been and then I I don't believe anything applicant has ownership. I'm not sure who if I'm not sure it was ever properly abandoned or anything. So I don't I wasn't around for I know well I don't know anything. I don't know if CDTA thought they owned it or Rick as of this month it shows in our system that it's under new ownership under their LLC. I believe that that

but I I don't know I don't know what our system is based on. I know that there are there's a specific state laws regarding how you um abandon a right of way, right? Was it a rightway or was it a city street? Well, a city street is a right of way. Rightway is more general term, right? Uh and I just don't I just don't know the status of museum place really. I haven't done a lot of research on it. Um, but it it may have been properly abandoned. It may have been uh eminent domain by CDJ. I don't know. I mean, it never been a real street. I haven't It may never have been a real street. I don't know. It somehow got the name Museum Place,

but as of right now, you guys have title to what was Museum Place. Is that right? Correct. We We own that portion of land and it wasn't even really It wasn't a rightway. It was kind of had some jagged edges and it didn't look like a 50 60 foot street right away. So, so you've probably done a title search and you know work enough to know that you do have title to the property. Yes.

Okay. Have you um been in talks with the owners of the the hotel about um access easements for their parking areas and off of Third Street and uh or we have we actually had a uh very good meeting here at city hall and I see uh several of the representatives of the hotel are here. Um I'm sure they can speak to the results and outcome of that meeting, but we we thought it was very positive. Anything further, gentlemen board?

Okay. All right. Thank you. Uh members of the public would like to speak, please come on up, identify yourself, and uh give us your thoughts on this project.

Good evening all. Steven Maples, uh South Troy. Um just for this this the benefit of the applicant um I'm just going to basically just bring up the things that I emailed you all earlier today but basically that the um the parking shall be accessed from an alley where such exists and maybe we don't know exactly what if the museum place counts as an alley. I'm sorry I can you talk up a little bit?

Sure. Yeah, I'll do my best. Um so we may not know exactly what an alley is constituted but um between the zoning code and the comprehensive plan it makes it very clear that the entrances to structured parking should be not happening on the north south uh routes. If um section 7.1 talks about um private and under private underground structure parking will be located interior to the development development sites such that it is not visible from the street and access to the underground and structure parking should generally occur on east west streets only. So we have some guidance there. Um we're still in the early stages. So I think that the applicant has like plenty of opportunity to you know u incorporate that into their design. Um as well as uh as you know as several of the members of the board were talking about uh activating that that uh ground floor. Um particularly with as it pertains to Riverfront Park which again in our comp plan it talks about activating specifically that side of uh of this of this property. um talking about you know I mean it says commercial uses will be required at grade along river street to help animate river riverfront park um you know I think you know commercial or community uses I think would be more or less interchangeable there just because it's it's about activating that space that's the purpose of that um so I would love I'd love to see this uh project uh incorporate those those elements um and love to see others is uh um I'm very happy that the board is also keying on these like similar type of things. Um that's all I have. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Is there is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Anybody on Zoom?

Hello, Elizabeth Rodriguez. I live at 1986 15th Street. I'm a local architect. Uh I TAP did submit comments to you earlier in the day and um um I think you're taking them to heart and I just felt compelled to speak because this is such a big project and we really should have more people giving input into it. Uh the previous person's comment about the drives being on the side streets is um a particularly good one that we didn't talk about in our letter. Um, and I do want to say that I do appreciate that they want to build such a large impressive project here in Troy and um, uh, that we have this sketch plan conference to refine it and make it better. Um, and that, uh, the owner would like to make it a legacy project. I think that's wonderful. Um, and I I see some improvements in it. Um the I just wanted to mention that the colonade uh is has been cut off now by uh parts of the building popping out. So what was a colonade is now two kind of recessed areas which I think lend themselves to what you were talking about uh member Scully that that's a great place for somebody to shelter in bad weather. So I love the idea of a colonade. If there is a colonade, I'd like to see it continuous, a place that somebody could see down the whole length of it and not provide corners for uh people to shelter in. Um, and this idea of having uh commercial spaces or community spaces, some sort of spacesh on the ground floor on the perimeter of the building is really important. This is a once- in a generation opportunity for this site. the parking garage got it totally wrong, except for there was a McDonald's there,

which did bring a lot of traffic in back in the day. Um, but it seems like even if these are tiny spaces that they give to non forprofits for a small rate, um, or small storefronts, that's only good for their tenants to be able to walk on the streets that surround their building and have this flow of people coming and going for different businesses. So, I think it's really important that there be more activity at street level for the building. It seems like there's way too much parking. I'm hoping that the TDM TDMP supports less parking um and that you will have a chance to review this again uh when once you have the TDMP in hand. I don't know if they have to go to zoning or not for any of uh uh what they're proposing right now. Um that's it. I just thought I should say something. It's too big of a project to not um have a discussion about that.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Well, if not, we'll close the public hearing. Do you want further discussion? Excuse me. I had a hand up. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. Didn't see that. Yeah,

that's okay. That's okay. It's Barb Nelson. I'm uh sorry I'm not present. Um, and Lisa pretty much made the points which TAP has brought to you. I'm I'm hoping that the board has been able to take a look at the sketch and the letter that I submitted just this morning. Uh, but for the benefit of the public, um, you know, losing just 20, sacrificing just 20 parking spaces would double uh and greatly improve the amount of uh, you know, kind of storefront space. Um, I know that retail uh is very hard to fill and we don't want more empty storefronts. So, there's an easy way to solve that. Make it very very cheap. And and this becomes kind of a an obligation or responsibility of the owner uh to assure that we have enlivened and vibrant streets with storefronts with lights on. Uh they could be small startups. They could be uh you know maybe the Red Cross wants an outreach component. Maybe uh a student club uh from RPI. It could be anything. It could be artists you know that are painting or sculpting or it it just to have lights on at street level. Um yeah, that's what makes it safe. That's what makes me want to walk down a street. And uh I think this uh this observation that these kind of uh indented areas with the with the colonade these are very attractive places uh for people who have no shelter um to hide from the snow um to be behind a column um and that that also you know discourages people from walking by. One point I don't think anybody's made. Um, and this may surprise you, but I like the idea that we can see through the building to the parking. Um, there are

people getting in and out of their cars. There are lights in the parking lot. Um, so it is a a form of activity, but it's not it's not enough. It's not commercial storefronts. But I'm just a little concerned about the lighting. If the lighting in the parking garage is glaring white fluorescent, then all these beautiful renderings, um, you're going to, you know, you're going to see that glaring white fluorescent light coming out, um, of all of those green walls, which, you know, we hope something green will grow on them. Um, so I'd like some special attention paid to the quality, um, and the the color of the lighting in the parking garage, uh, because that is, you know, going to be that I I presume that that's going to be on all night. Um, all right. So, those are my comments. Thank you very much. I hope you get a chance to to take a look at the the sketch I gave you. There are in particular there are some parking spaces at the norththeast corner which are just dangerous to pull out of uh you know you'd be pulling in and out of the spaces as someone is pulling in and out of the garage. So those are easy give up you know giveaways and I think your bike storage is too small. Um that's also another opportunity to have uh glass windows to the street, lights on inside, people coming and going with their bikes because people um who live in a city, you know, sometimes they have a cart, sometimes they have a stroller, sometimes they, you know, maybe some small lockers to keep your helmet in and your uh your basket to go to market, that kind of thing. So, um there you go. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

All right. Thank you, Barb. Thank you. Is there anyone else? Nobody on Zoom. Okay. Okay. So, um do you want any further discussion or there's no action to be taken tonight so move on? Yeah, I think we can move on. I you know the general comments are that you know pretty exciting project. I think that uh you know the input we've had so far is all positive really and that's something to congratulate all of us on. Okay. Good. All right. So, uh, next item I think is, uh, 20240021,

1987 15th Street. got lots of recommendations on this. Uh, good evening, planning board members and uh, uh, our neighbors. Good evening. You have to speak up. I'm sorry. I cannot hear you. Okay. Sorry. Yeah.

Uh, good evening, planning board members and our neighbors. I'm Linda Yu, the owner of the property 1987 15th Street in Troy. And today I I will present you what we want to do with this location. And we'd like to put a building addition that will have 14 bedrooms. It's a dometry for students use only. And first of all for this project uh we already have the infrastructure that's necessary to serve this new addition. There's water and the sewer in the streets the road and sidewalk and everything to develop this project. Secondly, it's zoned appropriately. It's zoned for doaries. We plan on having students living close to the campus. Certainly um Miss Hosberger from Lancing Engineering did a TDMP file project. Uh we can see from this report that RPI provided a a bunch of public transportations uh from campus to surrounding areas and local shopping center and also they provided the uh transportation from the campers to the Amtrak train station, the Albany bus terminal and air Albany airport during the school break and also the CDTA pro provides three routes in and around campus so students can take advantage of this public uh public transportation and u

uh furthermore in Troy zoning code it is encouraged to use public transportation and workability in this in this area. And here's the Thank you. Yep.

Which slide would you like me to get, Linda? Oh, not not this one. Uh the another one

number 16 please. Oh this is the TDMP report from lensing engineering. Next please. In conclusions, I say the student don't have a don't don't need to have a car for the because there's a a a bunch of choices for public transportation. And next, please. Uh here is the Here's an analysis for the site plan. We made some uh minor adjustments. Can you can you talk about those adjustments because this site plan came in really late didn't it didn't meet the uh deadline. So this this site plan has some additional

according to the the zoning code we we will have to have five feet back setback. So we got some feedbacks and comments from the staff reports. So we made some adjustment accordingly. And this area is a open space. We like some uh uh green areas and also we need the here's a dumpster for this building and we plan to have the planter and bushes around the dumpster. So it will not be seen from the sidewalk and also because the dimension of this open space is about 28 ft by 28 ft. So there has um enough space for the service trunk to do the job for this for this building. Well, can you orient me a little bit there? Where where is the street there? Where how is this building?

Oh, oriented. Street would be over here.

Yeah, that's not 15th Street. And where is the dumpster in that drawings? You say the parking lot in front of the building. on the street. What What does the X indicate? Linda, could you please use the microphone? You can take it off of the pedestal. I mean, this is this is 15th Street. Yeah, this is 15th Street. This is the the driveway. And this is a dumpster around by the planters and the bushes. Yeah. I can't What are you saying about the X is what I don't understand. What's the X?

X. Oh. Um, this is uh because the dumpster should not be seen from outside

because that is green stuff. Um, no. It's um I think it's from a aesthetically it's it's better. Sorry. It's It looks nicer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But it's what is it? What? Is it? What is where that X is? Oh. Oh, no. No, no. It's just It cannot be seen from the side. But what is it that's blocking the view of the dumpsters? It's the bl the planters and the bushes. Planters and bushes. Landscape.

Uhhuh. But it's still on the street side, right? Yeah. It seems to me there's some confusion about um we're including the prior property, the neighboring property with this development as well. Is that what we're doing here? Uh there's an existing Yeah. Yeah. There's the existing and that has this part is existing building and this part is a new addition. Right. Okay. So when you're doing all your calculations, are you doing it based on the units, the new units or the combined units? The new units.

The new units only. Okay. So I don't I don't understand how that's this the addition is there and then this building that's the back edition connecting those two buildings there it is. Yeah, that that's a rendering. We did the two set of plan. This one is a uh with a more modern look. Like don't like it. Yeah. Okay. Next one.

The night wheel. So the where your fences in the front with the three lights on top microphone is that 15th Street in front of that. No, this this way it's 15th Street. That's 15th Street. Yeah. So how does your other how how was that other drawing that Eric had up before number 16 or whatever it was? That wasn't 15th Street on 15th Street. Where where's the dumpster in that picture, though? Oh, it's right there. That's right there. Yeah. Yeah.

So, that that will wheeled out. Is that where you're doing? Is this a pedestrian entrance here or is that an auto entrance? Oh, I think Yeah, it's pedestrian, right? Yeah, it's So, there's no access for a commercial company. Yeah. To get to the dumpster where it's located. Correct. Uh yes. Uh we have to make some adjustment. Now when you calculated the dumpster and how many pickups you going to have, did you calculate based on the 14 bedrooms or or the combined units of what is it? 20 27 26 29. Yeah. The the combined units

29 for 29 bedrooms. Okay. Have a lot of garbage in the rooms. Okay, here's a floor plan. This is a basement and uh uh this is the primary entrance and this is the open living space for the students. That's your entrance is in the basement. Is that what we're doing? Yeah. Um that that can't qualify as a basement. It's it's not a basement. Okay.

It's the ground floor, right? Yeah, it's a ground floor. Okay. And um here is a small gym or a learning room. And uh in in the ground floor there's a twobedroom apartments. Two Yeah, there's a twobedroom and the living space and the kitchen. And this one is similar. So there are two twobedroom apartments in ground floor. Excellent. Next. And that's uh first floor. You want me to keep going?

Yeah. No. Um here's a lobby. And here's uh two onebedroom apartments and one twobedroom apartments and the studio. So it's five bedroom and the second floor plan. It's a similar. So where's the kitchen?

Oh, they all have a kitchen. Uh this one bedroom living room kitchen. So here is a c another kitchen. And uh here's another kitchen. They all have their own kitchen. Oh, I thought they were going to be shared. So that's changed. I thought there was going to be shared kitchens.

I I thought that as well. Um because um we did some research about uh uh we we ask a student what they need. Nowadays the student don't want to share with other kids heads. Sometimes they would have some conflict conflicts. So um on that ground we provide the cleaning service and also uh we provide more facilities such as the the kitchens bathroom so they don't have a share.

So your original plan was shared now nothing is going to be shared. So you're going to have a twobedroom apartment with a bathroom and a kitchen. Yeah. All separate entrances for each. Yes, that will be much convenient. How many how many kitchens in total, Linda? Will there be 29 kitchens for for each or excuse me, I'm sorry. Um two bedrooms. You've got a couple of two-bedroom apartments. So somewhere 20 something is kitchens kitchenets. Let me see. How many kitchens? 11 kitchens.

Okay. 11 kitchens for 29 bedrooms. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. And there would be 11 bathrooms. 11 or four. 14 bathrooms. 14 bathrooms. So 11 kitchens for 29 units. So, are some of them going to be three-bedroom units or um for because in the existing buildings there are uh students who have a shared kitchen and they still will have shared kitchen. Yes.

And here's the elevations. Let me keep going.

So the two the two buildings are connected. Yes. Where's the dumpster we were talking about earlier? That little box right in that. Can you Can you put your This This one is the dumpster. Okay. But that's going to have to be a wider entrance. Is that going to be a Yes. driveway then instead of a ped sidewalk? Yeah. Is exposing it more to the public. What? What's on the right of that slide? What's What's next? What's next? Is that a street next to this building or is that another building? It's another building.

Another house. Another house. That's what I thought. But the the uh the renderings are showing it looks like an RPI building over there, doesn't it? No, the house it's all it's pretty much res on this side. Is that uh residence as well? Yes. Or is it is it student housing as well? It's a fraternity. Fraternity. Yeah, fraternity. It's a it's a fraternity. Yeah. for both sides. But it's a big definition, but

but it's an old building. I mean, it's like their twostory building now. It's not that dissimilar to the to the old to the buildings that are there, but it's residential. Yeah. Excellent. So, there's they're not going to be required to have any parking. I mean, just because they're so close to everything and they don't need a car doesn't mean they're not going to want or have a car.

Um, I think we have the flexibility to have a few parking space, maybe three or four right in the front, but we have a we have to balance because if we have the parking space, then we don't have much more green space for student to use the existing building. How many people do you have living in the existing building now? 15. There's 15 people in there. How many bedrooms? Uh, yeah. 15 bedrooms. There's 15 people. Each person has their own bedroom. Yes. How many cars do they have? Oh, probably a few. Few.

Yeah. So, you're getting 14 more bedrooms and a few more cars and they're all supposed to park on on the street on the street. That Well, that's what the people on 15th Street were having a problem with last time with taking up their parking there. It's not there's no way that some of these students are not going to have more cars. Additional question, what is behind the property? Is there any Do we have anything that shows me that? I think it's a few. It's a It used to be a uh it's like there it's like RPI's practice soccer fields.

There's no alley behind the property. So, there's no access to the back of these properties at all. Correct. Has fire, you know, does fire have an issue with that at all? They're here to speak on the proposal. Okay. Okay. So we have no is this your final elevation? I mean is that what the building you want the building to look like? Is uh we we did we actually did uh second design. That's your second design? No, no, no. This is the first. We actually have the second one because you have another design. Yeah, because we got a feedback from the staff report and from the community.

Okay. But we don't have that. Yeah. No, you you guys you have a deadline to submit stuff so that they can study the proposal and a lot of the stuff that you submitted came in late just at the end of last week. So they're they're not reviewing two sets of elevations. So it's that's why it's important to make sure that you have your intended design here on display. So, if there's a second design you're intending to go with post the staff report, then you want to make sure that you have that design featured in the next submission of materials so that they can review that with a timely um you know response period.

Okay. Thank you. Uh but I think first way we would like to have some idea what it will looks like in our rendering. Yes. But we're we're at your first official meeting, correct? No, I think it's a second second. Well, the first meeting you had was a sketch plan concepts and so today you are seeking uh determination of application completeness. Okay. Yeah. Or was this meant to be a sketch plan conference?

Oh, because we got uh feedback from the the the the planning department about two weeks ago. So, we we did another set of design. I think it's um acceptable, right? uh because we responds positively from the

when you get when you get a staff report that's essentially an analysis of the packet that you submitted and that's the packet that you have to present on if you make changes based on the staff report that's fine but they're not able to be submitted in the same time period. So those changes would be introduced at the following meeting and and that's kind of where where we're at right now. Does that make sense? Is it you guys you guys all understand? I think we have to see more. Yeah. Yeah. Can you Is there um

It bothers me that that dumpster sitting there on 15th Street and I know how these dump dumpsters work and they'll be half closed and there'll be boxes and crap hanging out of them and all that kind of stuff right on 15th Street. So, is there any way to reconfigure your whole site there to get that away from 15th Street? Um okay but um there's some uh limitation because uh according to the zoning code there's a uh five ft side setback. So it's it's hardly we can put the dumpster uh in the back of the the building. So

because you have no access to the back. No. No. It's What about down the side? I mean, I don't know how much how wide your lot is there and how wide your building is, but you could make the you could stretch the building or compress it so that there was access down the side. Then do you are you saying that you are required to have your building set back that far from the street?

Oh, uh that's a we have a we have made a lot of adjustment according to the the feedback from the city. Uh first we proposed to build another new building and then the city told us that uh we'd better do a addition not instead of a new building and they asked to tear you proposed to tear down that building and build a whole new No no no no because we have actually two lots. Yeah. So we first we propose to build a new building uh but uh we get feedback from building instead of attaching the two

the departments uh they told me we better do addition instead of new building and we we better to move backwards. Mhm. So we maybe trying to get too much on the lot might be a issue. You know, I don't know.

I think she's referencing uh Mr. Reeves's previous report that he issued uh in the workshop that that was had um with their former engineer that was on the project. there were discussions u made about trying to avoid certain variances and things of that sort. So this you know is the product of those those discussions.

Mhm. So, the letter that Russ wrote in January of 2025, um, pertaining to the first building with all the violations in it, has any of those been cleared up? So, so the yeah, the violations in the existing building, I believe, have all been remediated. Um though the the the conversion from a two family to the dorm essentially is why they're here now. You know they have to encompass the entire project as a dormatory.

Okay. Uh during this this summer uh we did the renovation for the existing building and we also uh installed the the sprinkler system and the fair alarm system according to the feedback from the fair department and building department. So we we're already corrected. Already what? Corrected. Yeah. Yeah. So has your wiring been corrected on the Yeah. The wiring has all been redone? Yeah. Bearing, plumbing, everything. So it's a much safer building right now.

Okay. And somebody had referenced, I think at one of the meetings that there was something in the attic, kids staying in the attic or something or my Are you talk converted the attic? Yeah. Hadn't they converted the attic before and that was not supposed to have been or something? But I don't know. No, no, no, no. Is it there there's a unit in the existing house in the attic space? Yeah, that's after the renovation. We got a permission from the building department. So, it's all confirmed to the building code.

You have an existing certificate of occupancy for the 14 bedrooms that you have now? Yeah, you do. Yeah, we do. And then next, please. Next. Yeah, this is a second design. Uh we got the feedback and we think this set of designs will better match the uh surrounding buildings. You have to submit one set of elevations or have to consider this as a sketch plan conference. Okay.

So, I think they're going to have to come back obviously here. Um, so that's I'm sorry. That's the same building with a peaked roof on it, right? Yes. Basically, exciting. Um, I I don't think there's any action we can take tonight on this, is there other than table it? I know we also did the rendering. So, yeah, you're you're looking at two different sets of designs here. Yeah. So, we have to officially get the second design. They have to come back with one with one

they have to come back with one design that they're that they're steadfast on, right? So, you guys kind of confuse confusing because uh we did this this modern look, but uh you told me you prefer that one uh with a gable roof, right? And so we we did a second design and you told me you have to choose one but I don't know which one is acceptable. I think it's both workable. Um but I I'm so confused. That's okay. When when you come up with a design, you know, we review that design. That's what you pay for the planning board to review.

Yes. Um but having two different sets of designs is not applicable for determination of application completeness because you have to decide on which design. Now if the staff report comes back and it says based on the design originally submitted that you require variances or you know adjustments then you would work with your design professional in order to get there for the second meeting or you would you would take whatever deviations from the design regulations you'd need uh to to conform conform to the code. So you have to in in short you just kind of have to choose one design to go with and then once the board has the opportunity to comment on that design then you come back to us with some updates such as this if that's what you you know ended up wanting to do. Does that make sense?

Yes. So Linda this this design shows a driveway rather than a sidewalk and the dumpsters disappeared. Where where would the dumpster be in this? It's right here behind this question. Is that a wall there? Uh along the driveway. Yeah, it's a planter retaining wall. I understand. But this would be now in this design just you know for feedback. Right. So is that a curb cut? Is that an access for an auto right? Now access. This is access for this. for a car for car. Oh, yes. This is access for So,

I guess the question is, is there a legal curb cut now that you could drive in to that property across the sidewalk? Oh, there's actually right now there's a a driveway. There is a driveway. Yeah, there is a driveway. So, there's an existing curb cut. Yeah. Okay. Next, please. So there's the building. Well, this isn't sign that we can do anything with because it hasn't been submitted,

right? No, I understand that. But um we can tell that we prefer the second design. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. So, how do we resolve where we're at right now? Well, do we have to address the um dumpster issue or is it

Well, yeah, maybe it's a good this is a good point uh in the presentation. So, I guess I'll just read right out of the the book, but the um the placement of the dumpsters required to be on the side or the back, but the planning board can wave the requirements. So, I'll just read the following chapter 28566 uh garbage refuge storage areas. Um, so, uh, all dumpsters, garbage cans, or other containers for refues associated with non-residential uses and multif family dwellings of four or more dwelling units shall be located in a side or rear yard enclosed by walls or opaque fencing when feasible. The planning commission or planning board in this instance shall determine the feasibility and may wave this requirement due to sight constraints as part of site plan review. Actually, our neighbor puts a dumpster in front of the building because there's no other space. It's on 15th Street.

A dumpster. The buildings are close together. Well, I know, but that means, you know, you're trying to put too much on a on a lot is basically what that comes down to, right? Okay. So, well, that looks a little better, but I think it's still going to be very visible from 15th Street, you know. Okay. And it won't be pleasant. She's got it hidden pretty good.

You that your new building looks like it has really two components. There's a the left seems to be made of two living spaces essentially and then there's a third one on the on the side, right? Is it we got a floor plan? Is there Yes, we have the floor. Well, is it can you make that building smaller is what I'm asking you and get the trash where it's supposed to be. Yeah. See that whole top second plant layer could be gone.

Is there do you own so is the the setback on the north side of the property? So to the top right how much room do you have on the north side of the property between you and the neighbor's property? Is that two feet? 10 feet. 10 feet. Okay. Is it 10 feet to the property line?

I'm showing here. 4 feet. One inch. Okay. So, I I think my question was from the edge of your building to your property line, how how far is that? Is that the four feet you're talking about, Eric? Okay. Well, do you want to deal with that now or later?

I think we I don't you know I don't know what action we should take here other than you know they got to come back. Let's look at it again and you know they still have some staff comments. Eric mentioned that there's multiple different renderings so they need to choose yeah what they want us to see. I don't think we should be trying to to act on anything at this point because we've seen uh variations of different renderings. So, I think uh they need to come back with a decision on what they want to want us to see. Actually,

I I I agree with that. But I think maybe in fairness if we should give some indication whether or not we're going to allow the dumpster to be in the front yard because if we're not, they're going to have to change a lot. Yeah. So, um I don't know if we're ready if we're ready to address that question or not, but they we they should probably know the answer to that before they do too much more in design work. Do do you think that should be worked out in the department or the planning board? Um no. No. I think that you guys have this jurisdiction. So,

okay. Um, to me the question is, you know, the frequency of the pickups. I mean, you know, if you're picking up garbage five times a day, you need a small dumpster wouldn't be a big deal, right? But she's got 29 bedrooms, you know, and you know, if you're going to have one pickup a week, obviously that's not enough. Yeah. You know, you're gonna have you're gonna have a problem. So, how many people do you think are going to occupy the 29 bedrooms? Can are they allowed to have more than one person in a bedroom? No. You you control that by lease or something? Yes. Their friend can't come over and stay and produce trash.

Um I think there's a few solutions to this question. We can have a smaller dumpster and we will do the pickup maybe three times a week. I think that will solve this problem. Yeah. More dumpsters are not going to be more attractive. They be less attractive. Yeah. She said more pick. More pickups. Yeah. Small dumpster. Small pickup.

So, what are you considering the size of that dumpster that you think is in the plan now? What size was that dumpster? Do you know? Um I don't know exactly but um I think there's a dumpster in the in campus uh apartment in RPI. So I think it's the same size. Another question the existing So right now correct me if I'm wrong you have 14 aart uh bedrooms in the existing building. Yeah.

What are they doing with their garbage? Uh we have roller uh garbage can. So we will uh they will collect the garbage once a week. The city. Yeah, the city. So the So she had city pickup. Yeah, I think it's enough. Um and uh not not all the students cooking. Sometimes they just order pickups. or they eat in the restaurant.

So there were not there will not be much garbage. Right now there are about 14 yeah 14 students and we have three roller uh garbage can. You have three large garbage cans from the city and a recycling. Yeah. Two. I think two. Yeah. No, right now it's two. Two garbage, one recycling. Yes, I think it right now it's two story. You have to have two garbage cans. Have to by the number of units. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know how they handle it with with a dormatory, but Eric has pointed out that that was a two family residence before it was converted. It had been converted before without permits and without proper wiring and all that stuff. It's a violation, but it may be on it may still being be being treated as a two family by DPW, right? By sanitation. So I I don't I I don't know. So there would be two dumpster two wheeled two 90 gallons

would go with a two family unit. But lots of places now understand and lots of places for whatever reason have more than one can sometimes. I don't know you know our sanitation men if it's there they pick it up right but I'm not sure I'm not sure how they're operating now. We could ask. Yeah. I mean can I can see it on Google Earth right now. I mean of July 2025. So that's what's going on right now. The CO issue. That's pretty well that's pretty recent.

When when when did you get your CEO for 14 bedrooms? Uh I think it's by the end of August. Okay. Do you want to defer and wait till we see more? Yeah, we have to. Yeah. Yeah. It's a concern and yeah, I I hope you look at that issue because for me it would be an issue. Okay. I don't know about the others, you know. So, okay. Well, we uh do some homework and uh we will come back with our solutions. Mhm. But by the way,

maybe you could have a trash room on the uh in the new building. You know, you'd have to sacrifice some unit, but Okay. But either way, you're going to have to provide dumpster instead of using the city cans because of the number of units that are contiguous now. Yeah. And there, you know, this is no longer a two family house. It's it's a dormatory which is commercial and so therefore you have to have private collection and you may even have to have private collection on the existing property. So we're gonna have, you know, this is something you have to be take seriously. Okay. Okay. Okay.

All right. Thank you. So, uh no action. So, I just want to know the um so we we did some adjustment according to the the preference of the from all the departments. So, well, I'll give you a hint and again I don't know what how the rest of the board feels. I think that's too modern for the neighborhood. I think that at least putting on makes it more acceptable to me, but I don't know how everybody else. Yes, I agree. Make it look like it fits. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Uh so you'll work with the planning department and get them what they need so they can get it to us and hopefully we can do something next meeting. Okay. Okay. Sure. Thank you. Thank you. You want to still let the public speak? Oh, yes, of course. Absolutely. Uh, is there any member of the public here to speak on this proposal? As long as they have they all left us. There we go.

Hello, Elizabeth Rodriguez from 1986 15th Street. I live across the street from the property. Uh I already sent some comments to you and mostly about the discrepancies in the plan and that there we needed some clarity there. But I guess my overall comment is it's just too much. And I think that's why you see the garbage at the front of the house and uh some confusing images. Is a garbage truck going to drive into that patio and go in and turn around or is it really a patio with tables on it? Um, I personally I know some people in the neighborhood don't want to see that pressure on the neighborhood for more cars. I don't want to see parking in front of a building. That's also in our code to not park in front of a building. So, I like that they took the parking away. Um, it's too close to the north property line. they uh will need some sort of retaining wall or area well to um build the building that close to the property line. So, their renderings make it seem like it's greenery there, but there's a sidewalk.

You can take the mic over there with you if you'd like to. The fraternity is right here and there's a sidewalk right here. So there's not no treat, no shrubbery there like they're showing. And here they do indicate this retaining wall here because they're changing the grade. The property slopes up from the sidewalk. So they're flattening it out, putting this retaining wall that doesn't show on their site plan. So, I'd like to see plans that are more consistent, uh, where the renderings and the site plans and the building plans all match up. Uh, I don't want to see the garbage up front. Perhaps a private um, pickup person would do cans and they could do the inside solution. That would be wonderful. Um, let's see. Yeah, I think that's basically it's just too much. It's it's not a big site. They're trying to put too much into it. I don't want to see this uh remain a driveway. Um they can roll the cans out to the street like they do now. Um and there's already 15 people in this house. So, do we really need 29 people on a 50 foot wide piece of property? Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Anybody on Zoom? Yes. Uh I have a Zoom um fire department. Fire department. Somebody's iPad. Um but actually if you if on Zoom if you don't mind just um holding so that we can allow those that have attended in person to speak. Thank you. That's fine. Thank you. Good evening. Uh Michael Bailey, battalion chief with Detroit Fire Department. Speaking on behalf of the fire department. Uh I spoke here previously um last session. Pull that up closer to

I think it was sometime uh uh last year. Our concern would be the same as it was uh last year. Basically overall building safety. Uh, other dormitories, if we're going to classify it as a dormatory, are required to have a building safety inspection every year. RPI does it on their own. They police themselves. Russell Sage places themselves. This would basically be a dormatory with no teeth for us to be able to inspect it every year for building safety. Uh, we do multiple properties throughout the city. We do uh nursing homes and daycarees. They're mandated by the department of health to have us come in and do a building safety inspection. The schools in the dorms, you know, uh public schools are mandated by the education department and RPI and Russell Sage. They they police themselves. They have fire and life safety departments that go through all their dorms yearly to check the things that we check when we go there. egress doors make, you know, however the sprinkler system is laid out, nothing hanging off of the sprinkler system, which happens a lot, which RPI polices weekly in their dormitories with, you know, using them as hangers because that lessens the flow and the broadcast of the water if if there was a fire. You know, as far as the setback goes, we we the fire department cannot require access all the way around the building. We don't love it. We don't like it. We don't like how far back it's pushed. But there really in the fire code, there's no nothing there that say, you know, we have access to three sides of the of both buildings, which is adequate. Again, we like to be able to get to the back of the building, but when it's pushed back that far, we can't.

Fire drills. The schools conduct fire drills. I conduct fire drills at nursing homes, believe it or not, and they do it. They're required to do it. Uh, e-mobile people sometimes, uh, assisted living all have yearly fire drills. So, we would like to have something in place if this does go through that they are required to submit to this type of things if it's if it's possible or feasible or they agree to it that we would be in yearly to conduct these type of uh, inspections. Can we make those kind of stipulations?

I don't know. Do you have agreements with other uh private facilities where I I I don't know of any other private dormitories in a city. I think that's our that's our point. Everything else has some sort of education law or correct something like that. some sort of mandate that allows us to

to uh get in there. Uh a fire watch. If their alarm system goes down or the sprinkler system goes down, they would be required to post a firewatch, which we have, we carry that paperwork and somebody from the building responsible would have to agree in writing to conduct that firewatch while the alarm system is down. places like RPI, they have staff that will do it. So they would be sub I if they have a sprinkler system, they've already installed one, I'm told, in the other building. So they so there is

I think state law requires that that sprinkler system be certified every year. Correct. Correct. And so if it goes down, they either have to vacate the premises or or or immediately repair or install a firewatch. I think No, it's a and we were doing we would do an a I've seen where the fire department has done an agreement with a facility that the the sprinkler was not repaired. And uh that's for a firewatch. Yeah.

Right. For a firewatch. But we don't with this particular property, we don't we're not sure who would do that. There's no staff. is their local, you know, somebody responsible, a representative from the owner would have to come in and stay there and conduct that firewatch while either one of those systems were down. We just want to make sure that there's mechanism in place if if that comes up. I realize it's going to be a new building, but you know, sprinkler systems do malfunction, alarm systems malfunction, they go down for any number of reasons. So a fire watch would be a person awake 24 I mean three people 24 hours a day.

You basically walk each floor every hour. You have another way to you know you have a cell phone. You have a way to contact the fire department. We give them a set of instructions. They sign it and they and then this is the firewatch they're on and then they call when the when the system is is back in service, right? So we just want to make sure those mechanisms are there. But many other residential structures in the city of Troy, I'm just doing a thought experiment here, but I mean, um, the facility, the one right here on King Street or something like that, it's it is sprinklered

and, uh, the ones up on Sixth Avenue or are sprinklered. if they go down um you don't inspect those fac well the the city code department right gets a certification and they're not dormitories and they're not dormitories but even so if their sprinkler goes down are they on firewatch too yes somebody from the whoever their maintenance people are somebody representing the owner has to stay there while that system is down and conduct the firewatch or they would have to vacate why would this be different I guess in other boards. We just want to make sure we know who the staff is. If they're going to have staff, if they're going to have they're going to have a responsible person that would come and and do that.

All right. There has to be some owner or owners representative. Correct. I believe that's all I have except one point on the original building. Um the third floor is occupied space now, but it's been sprinkled. So, it's sprinkled on all three floors. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else here in the building that wants to speak to this application? Yes. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Donna Miller. I'm at 1994 15th Street and I agree with very much with what Lisa has said and what you yourselves have pointed out as issues with property. Um the congestion, the size of the building, the inappropriate presentation of the building, it just doesn't fit with neighborhood. And those are my objections and parking big issues. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else present in the building to speak? Okay, so we have someone on

Yeah, go ahead on Zoom if you want to

un good evening. Uh Darren Scott, 1986 15th Street, right across the street from this property. Um so I want to start by saying thank you to the board for your comments. uh and then uh pivot to uh what may be moot, but I I uh really question the decision on the zoning use. Uh I disagree that it's institutional. Yes, 90% of the block is owned by RPI and I think rightly should be zoned institutional. The block face that faces 15th Street is residential. Uh and I would like it to remain that way. uh in in the character that it is. Uh I also disagree with the zoning intensity. Uh it's currently neighborhood three. Uh I think it should be neighborhood too. So given those two things, uh I I believe that we probably won't be here uh commenting on this project if it had been zoned properly. Again, it may be moot. Um but moving on to the proposal. Um I just want to add my uh I want to agree that it's just too much program. Uh 14 units was too much. Uh and 28 units is way too much. Uh I think the proposal is idealistic, not realistic. Um to think that or to propose that uh nobody will have a car uh it's just unrealistic. Um there's they're parking on the lawn the lawn right now. Uh and I think that you know once they get their approvals um there's not going to be any lawn furniture. Uh there's going to be cars parked in front of this building. That's just the way things happen. Um

I also am concerned about the amount of parking that's going to be on the street. Uh I I really don't think that the uh the the engineers uh letter is realistic either. Um students drive a couple blocks from where they live to to park close to campus. That's just a fact. Uh the the neighborhood streets around the RPI campus are just flooded with cars on a daily basis. It's something that we knew when we bought the house and we put in a driveway uh because of that because we couldn't find parking. Uh and it's just going to be exacerbated by um more uh cars because of all of these students living in this uh proposed project. Um I also think the dumpster uh situation is unrealistic in that whole design of that front front yard. Um the dumpster is going to be much larger. I don't see how a truck is going to get in there and and do the three-point turn. Again, the the uh front of this property is going to be taken up by uh cars. Realistically, uh it just doesn't work. And I think it goes to what the board has already identified and the other speakers have identified and that there's just too much program on this site. They're trying to design it to work like a Swiss watch and it's not going to uh it's not going to work like that in in practicality. Um so in wrapping up I want to say you know there was no communication with the neighbors that I'm aware of. Uh and we would have said that this is an inappropriately dense proposal. Um the approach has been incremental. First 14 units went in to a two family house and now we're looking at another 14 units. The impact the overall impact is 28 units. uh and that's just too much.

Uh and I think the incremental approach is is um is not genuine. Uh and then lastly, you know, I would encourage the applicant to purchase and fix up other properties in the neighborhood. There are properties that need fixing up. We could use more housing. We could use density, but it all doesn't have to be on one site. So, I would encourage them to do that instead. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you. Is there another Okay. Uh, do we do secret tonight? No. No. I think you have to table it so that they come back with a definitive design.

Okay. I'd like to make a motion to table this project until uh further uh opportunity to review. A second. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? All in favor say I. I. I. Post say no. Motion carries unanimously.

2025 0049 30210th Street. Hello, my name is Gina Kim. I am a member of Tiger Mama LLC, the applicant. I'm also um the owner of the said building um at 30210th Street. Um I'm also a restaurant owner in downtown Troy. I've been there for uh 10 years now. Um and so uh we're presenting this new project to you. Oh well uh we we had stood in front of the board not I myself but um the other members um at the last meeting in September um and so this would be our second instance. So we've made revisions um and have voluntarily gone forward uh in presenting and and producing a TDMP um just because of the heavy traffic at the site. Um, in terms of uh any questions uh of what the space is intended for, it's going to be a shared workspace for working parents and uh where they can bring their children along with them. So, it is a very novel idea. It's not something that fits right into um a single, you know, code or it's not something that we see yet even in Troy um even though we have shared workspaces. So this is something as working mothers ourselves, we're presenting um a fresh perspective. I think there were some questions on um what the intended use is and how it had been used previously by other tenants. Um but we want to make sure that um we we emphasize the fact that we're entirely new applicants. Um we're the first ones to even stand in front of the planning board even though we do not have any proposed changes to the site. is is simply a change of use. Um is to start a new business. Um two of us uh Lydia and myself were existing business owners in Troy. We're present at the Troy Farmers Market. We live in Troy.

We're very much um invested into our communities. And so we're hoping that um our track track record can speak for itself in terms of how we will utilize the space and be mindful of the community um that surrounds um uh this open neighborhood. Um, and so we've made um I'll let our architect talk a little bit more about the alterations to site plan um to accommodate for parking and traffic. Uh but when it comes to anything about the the space and the intended use itself, um I'm here to answer those questions. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, my name is Adam Patella. I'm the architect for the project. I was here in I believe September was our previous meeting.

Yes. Um there's kind of a lot of I would say moving parts and it's kind of a few kind of chicken and egg kind of situations. So I thought maybe the best way to kind of address these would be to just go through the staff recommendations uh on the provided um comments uh discuss how we've addressed these issues and then open it up to be able to answer questions again about things that I think are uh less on paper let's say and that those would be maybe more directed towards Gina and her team. Uh so the first one would be to um supply information for utilities in the application uh the utility module on the application. Um this is in regards to the current water and sewage usage of the building. Uh I've been trying at great length to speak to the uh DBW and uh the water department. It's been really a challenge to get a hold of anybody who can give me the correct answers, but we're certainly willing to pursue that. Um, I would say right now the building has two bathrooms and uh, we would be supplementing them with additional bathrooms as required by the building code dependent on the actual occupant load which is partially determined by the actual type of use of the building. Um, but it wouldn't be a drastic, you know, we wouldn't have all of a sudden 10 multi-user bathrooms or anything like that. There's currently two single-user bathrooms and one kitchenette and we'd be adding one kitchenette and increasing potentially maybe two bathrooms uh, at most. uh identify business signage on the plan. Uh we would be able to produce locations for business signage as well as the like signage application process that's typical for anything else. Uh it would likely be mounted on the building as far as I know, but we we would go through the formal signage application process to be able to determine if there'd be a monument sign or just something on the building. Provide exterior lights

post from previous. So, uh, signage

Tina is telling me that they would use the existing monument sign and, um, but again, I think what I'm trying to reiterate is that we would go through the proper channel through the city that you would use to apply for any regular kind of sign permit. Uh, provide exterior lights and identify locations on plan. So, we've added lights on the kind of connecting bridge between the two buildings, which is now being considered as one building. Uh in addition, there are a number of lights on the building itself that if they are currently not operable, they would be repaired to be operable. Uh there's at least two on the long side and one on the short side of the building that would be used by the tenants. Um and I believe there's a couple on the existing firehouse, but either way, any that are existing would be uh brought back to use if they're not working right now. Uh provide security cameras and register with the Troy Police Department. there would be an agreement in place between the owners and the police department on camera number of cameras and locations of the cameras. Um I think that's uh I'm sorry.

So there's already been some cameras installed. Um we be able to document that or get whatever kind of paperwork you need to be able to see that. Uh snow storage is not advised to be only at this location. This is referring to an original snow storage location which was near a retaining wall on the 10th Street entrance that has since been uh moved. It's a little hard to see in this PDF, but it's been moved from what was up here to more kind of closer to the building along this edge of the retaining wall. Um, there's a comment about how we might it might jeopardize Also, I love this microphone. Like, you don't how it would potentially jeopardize that parking space right there in the event of a snowstorm. We'd also be able to provide documentation of a snow removal contract. Um, so that if parking was lost, it would only be temporary. Um, the drive aisle is only wide enough to be a oneway. So, we've since changed the traffic flow through the site to enter through uh off of 10th Street here, travel through the site, and then exit through Oakwood Terrace. This was in conjunction with Dan Hersburg, who was the engineer who completed the TMP. Uh we would extend the curb to uh what he recommended to be 16 to 18 feet uh width instead of kind of like the probably 30 or foot so width that it is now. The 30 or so foot width promotes two-way traffic. The narrower entrance would prov would promote a one-way kind of flow of traffic. Uh this would also address another comment which was um if people were turning onto 10th Street making right turns only, how would they return back to Husk? So instead we are entering off of 10th Street and returning onto Husk Street.

Wait, I'm confused. So your exit and uh Oakwood Terrace is a left turn only, correct? You can't make a right under who's you know from here. So there's no light on terrace or anything. Right. Right. So you make a right turn only on on right turn only on. Right. Okay. So that that would require would that require um new an oakwood terrace new striping? I'm not sure. It's currently a public street that right that cars are entering and exiting onto.

So if you're coming out of there and how do I know that it's only a right turn? I guess the So all the traffic going through the site is now going to have to go this way. You can't go back out onto Oakwood Avenue. Yes, you can. Right. the the um the issue or the questions that were being raised was if we're suddenly increasing traffic through this site, especially by um removing the the Husk Street entrance, y what happens when you need to make a left-hand turn, for instance, across 10th Street, okay, to exit the site. So, what we've done is made it a oneway where you enter here and then exit the site here back onto USK Street.

Okay, so I don't know anything about going in there. I get into the site. I want to leave. I want to go east on Huzzik. What do I do? Yeah. I I guess you'd have to make a right-hand turn. I don't I mean I don't think the if the only way out is to go north on Oakwood. You're gonna have to go up somehow, go to St. Mary's Hospital, sit in the emergency room, whatever. Come back down and wait for the light to make a left onto Husk. Yeah. I mean, this is the issue, right? Where there's no way to make a left. There's no There's no way to make a left and a right out of there's no way to get out

out of this site at all, right? So, that's kind of the problem, right? Is that Husk Street is kind of the um the animal that it or the beast that it is at the moment, right? So, we're trying to

Yeah. Um and also that we've got the the entrance to the site is so close to 10th Street that it's hard to promote any sort of queuing up to get out there as well. So, I'll just go continue through the list and maybe we can go back to this. Um, consider maintaining the curb cut on Hus Street and use a gate barring entrance and exit rather than raising the curb. So, we're totally fine to not change the curb cut itself and either install a fence or a uh like an ondemand use gate. The on demand use gate, if that was the instance, would not be for like at least I guess we could discuss it, but I would assume that it would not be appropriate for kind of continual use when you're entering and exit the site. it would only be for like a delivery or in the end of an emergency or like a special kind of special condition. It wouldn't be uh members using it as like a private gate or anything like that. Um and then the final comment uh was that the applicant to clarify what types of events they intend to use the space for. So I think that's something that Gina can address. There's a number of things within the TDMP kind of heading um that I think have been superseded by the most recent TDMP insight plan which was provided after this kind of round of comments were provided to us. Um, yeah. So, I'm happy to give the mic to Gina for your questions. Continue to talk about the traffic flow. Um, whichever the board prefers.

Board members. Yeah. Um, I thought in September we had asked if there was going to be any events at this space and the answer was no.

Oh, I'd like to clarify what kind of events. It's not the 250 person club party that happened last year and and for that reason we had to evict that tenant and went through very lengthy um uh proceedings for that. Um we're very different. These events we're we're talking about are office parties, um birthday parties, uh workshops, educational programming, um different types of events really intended for the community. And um we're in uh uh we're in talks with Oakwood Community Center um to to work with them um and and the youth and the children that they they are serving. And again um you know, we're just we're just moms. We're not trying to um host large scale events that maximize the capacity of the building. Um we have a a structure that's going to be anywhere from 600 to 800 square feet um of indoor playground space and then have workts surrounding it and really just um using our own knowledge of what it's like to work with little ones at home.

Okay. So Rich, I have a question. Um, so there's a catwalk connecting the two buildings. Does that constitute this thing as one building then? That's what I'm reading in the staff report. I I disagreed from the beginning, right? I mean, that's the whole reason we're here. Okay. Right. Is because separately they are not they don't we do not exceed the threshold for site plan review for this project, but they're considered as one structure. So that puts us over the 10,000 square foot threshold. Okay.

Because usewise it's an approved use I believe but uh because of the area we require this review. Also just to comment on the previous uh question about events. We did discuss events at the previous meeting but they were similar to what Gina discussed. They were um kind of not not multiund people parties. We discussed kind of member only or like semi-private events like birthday parties and things like that. So, is is there a tenant in the other building now or? No, they've also vacated the firehouse, but but the lease with Tiger Mama is just for the 7,000 warehouse portion. Tiger Mama is going to be in that building. Do you have a future intended use for the other uh the the rest of the building, whatever we're calling it here

and that I can speak as the owner. Um they just vacated. We're doing cleanup. Um just a lot of yeah aftermath kind of things. Um, but we are going to be very careful in our tenant selection moving forward. That's for sure. Okay. So, I guess I don't feel like I have an answer. Are we looking at the property as though this is one building or are we looking at as though it's two buildings and different uses? I mean, so right now right now you're just looking at I mean yeah their proposed use of the right of the northernmost structure I guess

right but so activating the other building would cause concerns with the traffic patterns and the parking and the snow removal and the garbage and all that stuff I believe so but that's right now so would they have to come back? Yes. Okay. question about the parking. The last time you guys came before um and this was before we talked about reversing the flow of traffic. I think there were uh if you come in off of Huzzik, you kind of go up a hill there. Um and there was three, four spots, maybe parking spots up there. There were a few spots, right? What? Yeah. Go ahead. Are you referring to off of Oakwood Terrace?

Yeah. Yep. So there's 1 2 3 four five spaces there now. So they're what are they because you're changing the traffic flow. Are those going away or are they going to No, there's uh there's I don't know I want to say a 10 foot if not 12t height discrepancy between there. There's a retaining wall there. Okay. So the entrance and exit would be right here. Got it. I mean if you want to speak I'm going to do a duet after this. Okay. So, you did um I noticed that you did move the dumpster up to the back. Yeah. Yep.

And another snow removal, I think, up there, too. Yep. So, uh we we altered the parking such that um the dumpster and snow removal would be up on the corner of the space of the of the lot. That would also allow for kind of equipment and trucks like that to be able to do the turns that they need. So, Oakwood Terrace, is that oneway street? Is that a dead end? What does that go to once you You know, off the top of my head, I don't really know. It's It's like a glorified alley kind of thing. Let me just It's definitely two-way, though. Two way. Yes. Yeah. But even from the aerial view, you can't see like there's a building there. So, when you get further north, it looks like it's got

I mean, it kind of disintegrates into the caliber collision parking lot. Uh, I thought so. Yeah, view. I saw the aerial view somewhere. I'd say it's an informal street. You know, to be honest, I'm not sure if one could turn right onto 10th Street and then right through the Caliber Collision parking lot. It's really almost like a dead end. And I I don't think you could get through collision. It's not a throwway. Yeah. And currently, we've observed traffic patterns while being inside the building. and a lot of traffic from Husseek they'll come off and cut through to get on 10th Street. So that's been a very dangerous um So they're cutting through your side.

Exactly. Yeah. So we feel that having the fence there is really important for the safety of are they going through the existing curb cut? Are they going through it with terrace? No, they're going through the ex both. So So they get queued up by the red light and then they get frustrated and they drive through the existing site like this. That's like But our our plan is when we're closed, which is at 6 PM, we're going to, you know, um or even chain off the um the exit ramp so that people can't go through it. Yeah. I I thought you were going to keep it closed most times except for like scheduled entrances.

The gate that would close street entrance. She's talking about I think just this ramp. Oh, the exit ramp to to Okay. But the other the other one you're planning on fencing off. Yes, correct. Fencing off or the the the temporary use uh gate if that's more appropriate for you know emergency vehicles and things like that. I think that once the kind of you know 25 30 foot wide curb cut off of directly off of Husk Street is clearly no longer available to cars. I think that the option to use this as a through lot is going to be significantly decreased. I don't think people are going to be driving up Oakwood Terrace and and all that kind of stuff. Um

I agree with that. There's two cuts too close to each other. That's no. So on Oakwood Terrace, is there public parking on the street? Is there street parking on Oakwood Terrace? I mean, I don't know that it's explicitly parking or no parking. Let me see if I can look. It's such an informal street. That's what makes this kind of a little bit challenging. The only public parking that we've uh accounted for that is accounted for in the TDMP is um the one off of uh 10th Street and and other surrounding areas, but not on Oak Terrace. Yeah. I don't think there's any public parking on Oak. And there there's residential driveways and Yeah. Yeah.

And you you are going to Sorry, Chris. Um I read that Oakwood community will give you parking if you need it. Yes. Yes. Whatever. Yeah. Because they're in need of parking spaces for their evening programming and then we're in need for the daytime. So um we have a verbal agreement with with Sha where um we can have that on paper as well if need needed. Good. What is the motivation of closing the Who's Street entrance? The uh previously discussed that's the motivation to to stop the cut through. Yeah.

It's also very hard to go in and out of Huskix Street even for um the cars that are accessing um the site.

Anything further? So there's no problem with anybody if they just make that one way going in off of tent and then coming off of Oakwood Terrace and having to take a right. So it's right turns off of both entrances and exits. So it's a right turn off a tenth and it's a right turn off of Oakwood. So like you said, if they have to come Well, then they have Yeah. They have to go up towards St. Mary's or go downtown go to downtown Troy. Yeah, that's that's I mean I'm not sure that there's

or they just go instead of going out of going out of you come up to Oakwood Terrace and you're come down and take a lot. I mean there's no signage dictating which way you can or can't turn on Oakwood Terrace right now. There is no sign. No. Well, that the way advisable to get a sign. Yeah, right turn only. I guess I'm just uh suggesting that we are exiting onto Oakwood Terrace, the street Oakwood Terrace. And then I guess technically speaking, you go wherever you want to go on Oakwood Terrace. Oakwood Terrace. Yeah,

I think it's fair to consider it given that the Huzzik Street entrance is closing now. And you know, Okerris is your exit towards Oak Terrace is running parallel with who's it great. So it's almost feels easier to to go to the left for cars because they're facing that direction. Now they're going to do a U-turn to take that right. So I think it should be discouraged the the left across the uh the Hatchiel aisle. I think that's a fair request for vehicle safety. Yeah, we can we can put up signage for that. Yeah, because there's no way that somebody's going to take a left off of Oakwood Terrace to go east. It's impossible. Oh, oh, they will try.

Oh, I'm sure they will. They're going to be sitting there a long time across three aisles of traffic because that's the turning that's the turning lane. I understand. Maybe we should illuminate who's street instead of don't look at the other way. I think I think what I'm trying to get at is that we can only put signage right on our property. I suppose. So, we can certainly put signage that says when you turn on to Oakqua Terrace, you have to make a left or right only. I just don't know how we would be responsible for putting up signs on city property and things like that, especially on Husk Street. So, no, that's not true. I mean, all these pro these projects commonly include um improvements to the

No, I'm saying we're we're fine to agree to be part of that that process. I just don't know how we provide I just don't know how we do that. So the the city traffic engineer would would be consulted and right he would agree or not I guess to to a a sign being placed there perhaps at your expense. I don't know because you're causing the the increased traffic coming out of Oakwood Terrace. Sure. But that the city engineer current traffic engineer sitting here so he can think it through. Yeah,

you can chat. But it's also a DOT uh maintained roadway. So they they may have a vote on there too, which really does make me more concerned because we start, you know, we approve something like this and then I get a call from DOT and they ask about it and why weren't we notified? Why isn't there a highway work permit? I think it's it's worth having a discussion with them. Work your magic, Chris. Work your magic. good relationship with DOT all engineers, you know, we're all we're all friends with each other. Anything for the folks?

What What's your plan for fire truck access?

I mean, the excuse me, the oneway drive aisle allows um the required width for a one-way the right width for oneway drive. So firet truck access would be as if it any other oneway drive. We're happy to stripe it to prevent parking along the building if that's necessary. I think also the gate could be could be part of that solution as well. Um, you know, thinking creatively, I'm not sure if there's a way to to activate the gate based on the fire alarm going off or something like that. Uh, but I'm sure there's some some way we could work that out. Do our trucks fit under the skyway?

I don't know. I think we would have to know that. Maybe. I mean, what's the height of the skyway? Is it like 136? Is it 136? The clearance is written on there. I'm trying to look. You think that was designed that way for the fire that's an existing condition? Yeah, I would I would imagine it's an existing condition. And I'm just I'm just saying if the if the right now the entrance on Husk Street could accommodate a fire truck to have access to to most of that northern building. But if the skyway blocks it, then the fire department has only access

to two sides. One either on um Oakqua Terrace or maybe maybe through So right now we have 13 foot six clear under the bridge. I mean that's we have a representative of the fire department here.

I guess will your biggest truck get under the microphones? Should be enough, right? 136 should be okay, but we just found about this tonight. I guess we would just need more time to uh to review it. You need to look at it. Yeah, we need to look at it better. Yeah. does say they reviewed it and there's no other solution than to go through who's street and you know you don't want to pay for an automated gate system or they they don't trust it is does leaving open kill this project or affect your site plan in other ways?

No. Um we're we're open to that and which is why I think we also had these ongoing discussions with the planning um board or not not the uh the planning department and and we thought this was the best solution but um we're we're fine with not paying for another gate at Husk um except for that you have traffic going through your site which creates a liability issue more police somebody wrecks a car in there

you got your hands So we we think this is the best alternative considering all the different factors and considering um the uh the engineers recommendations. I mean it's just a tough spot. We really want to activate this space. Um believe me we we want to see activ like good activity at this spot. Um and and traffic is going to be a problem. I think it will self-correct. If people don't find traffic to be an issue, they will not come. it's not going to work. Then we'll have to come up with a new idea. But we believe um what we're trying to do it has it's not going to have a big impact. We also want to serve people who are walking, who are taking buses. Um there's a bus stop right in front of the building. Um and so we we really feel that uh the impact will be minimal and if if it is posing an issue, then we can't have any business in there. Anything further?

I have one more question. Yeah. Is the uh the the building the northern building the one where you want to have the community what are you calling it? A community work and play space. Work and play space. Yes. Is that sprinkler? Yes, it is. And it's a newer edition that was built in Yeah, I know it's newer and and so that's why I thought it might be the sprinkler system is active and Yes. Yes, it is. Yes. Okay. They have um I don't know who I asked. They have a sign um their uh banners. We took them down after we we we didn't know that temporary mesh banners would pose an issue, but we took them down as soon as we became aware of that.

I'm done. Everybody done? I'm good. Okay. Thank you. See if the any member of the public wants to speak. Any member of the public here to speak on this? You gotta say so.

Hello guys. Uh Steve Maples. I I think this is a great project. Um I do think that the concerns um as a employee of the New York State DOT uh I I think like if we need to have those conversations my colleagues in district in region one could easily you know resolve any a lot of these issues but I I honestly think from as a transportation planner I think what's recommended is by far the the best idea. Um it it it solves the most problems. Is it completely without concerns? No. but like nothing is, you know. Um so I actually think this is by far the best um proposal for this space. Um that you could when we're talking about traffic flows, there is a you could turn right out of from Oakwood Terrace. Um you would still need to cross some lanes of traffic, but then you could turn left into Stewart's turnaround and start heading east. So there is creative solutions to be had.

Coffee. Exactly. So, so it's buy a lot of tech. Exactly. Then go to Brit. Exactly. Yeah. The interesting thing is is that this is a really high traffic count location. Yes. Which in commercial real estate is what you're going for, right? Absolutely. But, you know, the bugaboos are the, you know, you know, like if you're doing a drugstore years ago, you would buy all the property, grade it, boom, create the traffic pattern you needed. Exactly. Make sure there's no stacking. you did that exact and uh but that's not what we have. We have existing conditions and they're actually cool buildings, right? And uh

and I do think like this is the kind of thing that there's I think there's adequate parking. I think the the TDMP I have side thoughts about the quality of the TDMP. But I think it at least proves proves the point that like the the demand here is not great. Um, and it is, despite it being on Husk Street, which is a car sewer, there is lots of uh walking there's there's lots of neighborhoods that are walkable nearby, and I think that's the point is to be catering to those folks. So, well, so I didn't look at the the traffic uh plan, but um how many people are you going to have in here at any point in time? It's daytime, you know, but do you want to answer that for me?

Okay. I I mean, so the numbers that we've been crunching um to be sustainable is 50 to 75 children within an entire day. So they're not going to stay the whole day, but they'll stay maybe a couple hours um and then uh maybe uh 100 to 125 on the weekends. And so that was the estimated um or or that's our hopeful projections to to be in business. The parking you're you're talking about right now is for staff and for moms.

Yeah. But when we're talking about, you know, a lot of moms have more than one child with them, and and that's what we're considering, too. Um, and again, not everyone's going to just be uh uh driving and parking there, but we want to be accessible to folks who are in the in the neighborhood, surrounding neighborhoods, and who are um taking public transit as well. So, there's not going to be any children there that will not have their parents with them.

Correct. It's not a daycare. It is not. So, that's why it's a little different. But we we really want to try this and we think the community needs it. Uh we have a lot of young moms living in downtown Troy who are begging for it. Um we we all um you know the three of us live in Troy. Um and we just think it's it's a service that um we could provide. Um so we we want to take this risk at this location even though it is a high we we understand the high risk associated with it. All right. Thank you. changes. Anybody else? Okay. Um,

let's see. I guess it's up for us to approve it or table. So, this was a this was official hearing on this project at this point or we already have a complete application determination, right? So, this was a scheduled hearing. I don't I understand it. Sorry, it was I misspoke. Sorry. You misspoke. I misspoke. I told you it wasn't a public job. Okay. Um well, I'd like to move to make a motion go forward with final approval on this project. Second. I second that motion.

Discussion on the motion. Got beat out there. discussion. All in favor say I. I. Oppose say no. Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much. Good luck. Good luck. Thanks. It's 8:59.

Did you guys make a motion to end the meeting? No, we want to we want to stay. I got to go see basketball. I I didn't hear. I'm sorry. I I make a motion that we end this meeting of I second that motion. Okay. Yes. Motion made and second to adjourn the meeting. Uh all opposed. Position is dark.