Board of Selectmen - Regular Meeting

[Music] Good evening everybody. Um it is Monday, September 29th, 2025, 6 PM. Um and I'll call to order the Freetown Boer meeting. This meeting is on Zoom as well in person. Um this meeting will be recorded and will be available on our town's YouTube page. Uh tonight we are having a combined meeting with the board selectman, the finance committee, um the COA and the COA/ library community building committee. So, I will now kick it over to Margaret for the finance committee to I think she's gonna open and close that meeting. Correct.

Hi. It being 6:00, not having a quorum present, the Freetown Finance Committee meeting is hereby canceled. Okay. Thank you, Margaret and Wayne for the your meeting. Good evening. Uh uh I'm Wayne Jay, vice chair of the COA Library Building Committee. Uh we do have a quorum here. So uh we will have our meeting. Uh it is September 29th at 601. Uh for recording purposes if the committee members of of our committee could perhaps for a roll call just give your name. Norman Lander. All right. Wayne J. Pat Deanch

Brenda Mada Jeff Amar where people so we have a very good showing here. Uh we have four items on the agenda tonight. Uh first being if we can go straight to it is an update of the OPM. I don't know if you can hear can you hear me without this microphone? uh in the process of the combined COA library building committee and I suspect Mark you are presenting that update. I am yes please do.

Uh good evening. I've met many of you here in the room. Uh Mark Champagne. I'm with P3 who is your own project manager for this project. And what we need to present this evening is some information so that we can get some guidance as to our direction forward to ultimately design and build a successful project. So, we've distributed some information um shared it with the town. I'm not sure if everyone has seen it yet, but we've got some got some choices to make. And before we go too far down the road of design, we need to establish a direction. So in 2023 when the library program was defined by the consultant group um it uh prescribed a building a library building of 14,000 square feet. I want to speak in flat numbers right in 14,000 square feet for library. Um that is their programmatic view. The library folks here applied for and received a grant from the MBLC uh to pursue the design through about a schematic design phase to get a estimate for what the new building would cost to build. Currently, the town has contracted with the designer for a fee of $160,000 to get to that stage. The con with the grant contract. The design firm is bound to design the building according to the program. There's very little deviation that we can take. Um so if we were instance say it's a 14,000 square foot building.

I didn't do anything. I just got here

um by by the program needs and let's say we said well we're going to take that and we're going to knock it down to 10,000 square feet. we would then would be out of compliance with the grant and the town would have to give the money back or we would have to make the design correct. One or the other. So there's two paths. One is to continue down the path that we are currently on which is to design the combined building with the 14,000t library and a 7,000q foot council on aging facility. There will be some shared space between them, conference space and whatnot. Um the out of pocket to use the grant program to the town for that option number one is just under $14 million. The project cost is about $22.8 million. So the net to the town would be 14 million or so. The rest of it is funded by

the grant. Alternatively, we could design a 7,000q ft library along with a 7,000 ft council on aging facility. The two would be side by side with some common and shared space in between them. The out-ofpocket cost to the town for that option is, we estimate about $14.9 million. That would be without any reimbursement from the grant program. The one twist to this is the MBTA zoning as you all know. So 3A, we have the design grant. we could continue on with designing the project to the grant. Um, if we then find that 3A does not pass, if it's voted on again, then as it stands today, the town would not be eligible to receive the construction grant. And then you would look to redesign the facility into something that the town could afford with its own cash. So you would be back to that 7,000 and 7,000 square foot facility. Um those are the numbers. So my goal here is to establish a direction forward. Um we don't want the designer to continue down a path where he has to we don't want him to have to go through much redundancy in his work. We don't want to incur any additional charges from the design firm. Um, so and again,

the these dollar figures I'm giving you tonight are certainly just order of magnitude numbers. They've not been estimated by a professional estimator. They're not based on a specific design. They are based on they are based on the best opinion of the folks in our office at P3 and the folks at uh Johnson Rogers uh your designer on the project. Um and that's that's where we're at. That's the quandry that we have right now and that's why we're here to present this issue versus having a design to review at this point. Um, you are not the only town that's in this predicament, we'll say. Uh, we actually have two others as well. Um, and it's up to each town to establish what they want to move forward for a path. I will say one other thing. The if we design to the grant, bring a successful a successful design to them, we keep the grant the design grant in house, use that to fund the design contract. If we have to redesign to bring it to scale the project back to something that the town is able to pay for on its own, the upcharge for the additional design work would be in the vicinity of an additional $100,000. That's not accounted for in these figures. You got a question?

Um perhaps you can put it back up on your your two estimate sheets. We're we're talking $14,000 square foot perhaps for the library and roughly $7,000 for the COA. 21,000. But I believe that first column uh that doesn't include the shared space, if I'm looking at this correctly, it's more like 24,000 square ft. There's all told us all total is 24,000 square feet. And again, so so the program and the design is not exactly pinned down yet because we really have not put pen to paper to create the space on paper that's enough for anyone to really take a look at and and swallow what we're proposing or the design team's proposing. There is um meeting and community space um built into the 14,000 foot library square footage. Um the shared space is 2600 square ft. Our anticipation would be that that would be uh used by both entities and that the meeting space that's in the library program could dovetail into some COA programs as well depending on need and the library schedule. But again, those are all things that we are yet to be determined. We put these together as our best guess of how we can bring this together.

Just to understand the bottom line price tag of 13 million7. So is it a 24,000 ft facility or is it a 21,000 foot? It would be a 24,000t facility. Yep. Versus a combined 14,000t facility on option two. Right. Because on in the blue section you have 7,000 and 7,000 and zero in the shared space. Correct. So the shared space is incorporated in that 7,000. Yes. Yeah. And that space would we would probably what we would try to do is design that space so that it's

between the two spaces. So it could be shared uh either way. And the shared space is going to be uh flex space as well. You know, we plan on having movable petitions. Can be a larger room open for larger gatherings, uh, meetings and such. Um, you know, something that could house this meeting here tonight actually or could be divided, uh, into two or three sections, uh, for programmatic needs for either the library or the COA. So, we try to make those spaces as versatile as possible. So the second throng that I'm sure the finance committee and select board um are eager to know this is a reimburseable grant. So if the tenor is to move forward with the program as submitted with the 14,000t library, the shared space and the COA and we do proceed with option one. The grant reimbursements come this way. When you're accepted into the grant, it's 20%. you get 20% of your grant amount, which you'll see is is $9 million, give or take. The second 20% comes when construction drawings are complete. You get the second 20% installment. We can time that so that you may get one in the first one may come in April and maybe the next one comes in August. The catch is it's one reimbursement per fiscal year. So you have an opportunity to time it with the first two reimbursement phases

to kind of bridge that fiscal year gap. So you can put one towards the end of a fiscal year, one in the beginning of the next fiscal year. What has to float? You get 20% when you pull your building permit, which is the project's fully designed, it's been bid, it's been awarded. The contractor applies for the building permit. Once he receives that building permit, you could submit for your next 20%. That 20%, however, is not sent back to the town until we click by another fiscal year. The fourth 20% comes when you get ultimately get a certificate of occupancy on the building which means the building is complete. All the systems are inspected and approved by town officials by the NBLC and all parties involved and the building is complete and ready for occupancy and use by the town. And the fifth 20% reimburseable comes one year after. So the next year is how they do it. So the fund for the the funds for the entire project have to be appropriated cash flow this certainly to present to you. We haven't gone to that extent yet. We can cash flow this. So you don't have not have to borrow the entirety of the delta but there's going to be some there would be some borrowing at that point. um probably to get you through your final 60% of the grant.

Mhm. Um you know, which would be, you know, five about half of it. Call it about half. So be about $5 million. They would actually have to be borrowed, but could be paid down as the reimbursements come in. Okay. questions. With the state's uh fiscal condition the way it is and and what's happening in Washington, is it possible that the money won't be there when we need it? Anything's possible. Has it ever happened that that they haven't paid?

Not that I know of. Um if the grants established, um it's very difficult for them to do a clawback of grant funds. I will say that I experienced this firsthand with um ESSER funds which were ARPA funds used for schools. Um there are districts that have committed construction contracts. I was with one of them. Um there was a clawback. Massachusetts is still continuing to to reimburse the contract payments for projects that were already under construction. Um, but it's a it's a it's a court fight at this point. So, no one knows, but it is a possibility that it gets it would get clawed back successfully or not. You know, who knows? Gentlemen, anything? Well, that's the clawback part is something that you don't really think about until you realize it's a $22 million project, right, without the grant.

So, that does uh give me some chills. I'm not going to lie. Let me think about that. Wayne, do you have questions? Well, 22 million, if I could just comment on that only if the grant were to come through. And if if we knew the grant was not realistic, the added cost is about 100 grand to redesign. Correct.

Correct. If today we were to hire you separately to do that project, how much would that design cost roughly? Cuz I just wonder like the the difference between the two. So the architectural line on uh on our chart here has the complete the the design fee in its entirety for option one at a million6. Option two would be $1 million.

So regardless, at the end of the day, whatever option we take, even if we had to change, even if we went with option one and switched over to option two, there's still a a sizable gain that we've had through this process. There is and and in both bottom line numbers, you know, we've included everything, all the soft costs of the building. It's it's our fee, the architectural fee, uh testing through construction, uh construction oversight from our office, a clerk of the works on site full-time, um the FF&E, which is furnitureures, fixtures, and equipment. Um technology, um uh any technology that would be needed, utility work, site work, it's all it's all in that number.

Um you know, it's it's a choice again. So, just to be clear, I want to make sure I I I spoke this clearly so everybody gets it is that right now with the grant, we would design to the program.

Mhm. If we get there, you're going to have to write the check back to the state for the grant that you got for the design, and you're going to owe the designer $160,000 to get to the point that he's contracted to right now. So there's that there's that cost. Um, so yeah, it's a it's a it's a fork in the road. It's a it's I know it's a very difficult choice. It's a lot of information to swallow. It's probably not what a lot of folks expected to hear, but and and we have I've sat in meetings with the NLC and had extensive conversations that we thought were going to go well. Um and I mean they followed up with an email point by point by point and that you cannot deviate. Um I believe they said that uh in the conversation we could possibly if we could justify a 10% square footage deviation and not affect any of the programs. That might be okay with them. They might approve that. But then again it's open to their interpretation.

Yeah. So I think like realistically from what we've seen thus far, so the town has not seemed um any willingness to to actually vote in the 3A changes, right? Which is unfortunate, but that that's just the situation we're in. So that so that being said, I still think that there's a chance that and from what I've been reading recently is that they might just force it down our throats anyways and there and and they're going to override all of our our local bylaws and zoning laws to fit in compliance with 3A. That's what we've heard. Yeah.

Yeah. So that that's what it seems like. So, what I'm curious about is what happens if we don't vote it in, but they force us to do it. Do we still are they still going to claw back the grant, do we think? Or I mean, I know you can't make any promises there, but it it's tough to move forward and and say with any certainty that yes, that they would say the funds are available, the grant is there. Would they try to slap municipalities on the wrist that you know they had to force to comply with their 3A rule?

I guess the other issue too would be is if they if we weren't in compliance and there was the next person on the list below us, would they then award them the grant and then the money that was allocated for us is now in probably what would happen. even if we were able to get it back, it's not going to because they've reallocated the funds. So yeah, there's and there's a lot of moving part a lot of things that could happen. But I think what we have to do is think about

my this is my just my personal opinion is if I were Freetown and I've said this to other towns, I would I'd cut it. I go option two. I would do it on our own and uh that's the direction I would take.

Well, the the reason what makes me say that I agree with that is is uh there's a lot of folks in this room who've been waiting a long time for a building, right? Um from from all parties. So, if we go with option one and then it gets shot down again, we're going to be that much further behind again. So I I I think of that because nothing in this world seems to happen fast, but at the same time I'm all of a sudden it passes and then we're gonna be like we can't believe we didn't do it. So

yeah, I another so I mean obviously like if you just look at the numbers like yeah getting a lot more building for a cheaper price if we didn't know all the other factors here it's a no-brainer, right? Absolutely. But but then does this take into consideration I was looking for for operation costs for this does not. We're working on that now. Uh we've had a couple of meetings with Deb's asked. It's one of the first things she asked us about and we're working on putting that together because we know from this building, yeah, I think it it's it's very expensive to run this building, right? And a lot more expensive than I think was originally budgeted or maybe wasn't budgeted at all to be honest with you in some situations. And so, you know, that's just another thing with the option two, we are going to have lower just operation costs.

Oh, you absolutely have lower operation costs. And and you know the thing about operation costs um first utility cost for the building. I've been through several of these programs uh across different uh municipalities across the state that had uh implemented um esco programs. Um you know it was a lease program with an energy contractor. They would come in and make a lot of these promises about energy usage. And it was always and you're always clear to say you measure a building's cost by not dollars and cents. It's by energy use. That's how we do it.

Give you a a usage of energy, heating, electric, which now all the heating is electric as mandated by the state. Um, and then extrapolate what your cost would be based on what your rate is and rates vary. Um, yeah, for this building, we looked at that for this building for a cost comparison. So, you take this building was built just a few short years ago. It's all got all the technology in it, heating, cooling, landscaping, cleaning. We average about 150 to $175,000 a year for all those costs, right? 60,000 about 60,000 for electricity, $36,000 for cleaning and landscaping, then plus heating and whatever breaks we own. So, so if we're doubling the size of that building on option one, there's your cost, right? Um option two about the same. So, if comparison wise, town hall is about 5,000 square feet. So, a little bit bigger than that as far as monthly costs for the extra 7,000 square feet that we're talking about.

How many May I ask a quick question? How many square feet is this building? About 12,000. About 12,000. Yeah. Little bit more, but give or take. What is the selectman's plan for a town meeting to present the 3A uh position again?

Yeah, great question. I think we we have to keep I think trying. I think like we've presented all the facts. We've we I think we've done a especially this last go around, we did a much better job of kind of um articulating what the downsides of us not being compliant are. Uh it all seems to to not work, right? Um, but by us not at least scheduling the meeting and getting on the agenda, then that puts us I think further outside of compliance. If if we really believed that the town that the state is going to force us to do it anyway and they're going to put the zone wherever they want to put the zone, uh that if that's presented forcefully,

I can speak to that. People might the people might go for it.

Yeah. So Paul, I can speak to that. Um recently we we have a a joint meeting seems like week every every so often every couple weeks to a month between myself the um the planning board the chair uh the planner uh our town administrator as well as the state in correspondence where discussions right now discussing where 3A could fit. Could we break it up? We're looking at all the options, but we have received notice from the state stating, hey, you have a deadline of, I think, December 25th to be ready for January for the compliance date to have a vote, right? We're not there yet. We don't know what it looks like because in that letter, it does state what levels of compliance that they can pose impose on us. Some is financial, some is things like this, like grants and other things. So, is the threat real? Yes. Are we there yet? No. I I think we have a couple good ideas and then we of course bring it out to you, the residents, to take it in and vote on it yourselves and we we will do whatever is voted on, right? That's our that's our stake in the game, getting what you want. What does that mean? We don't know yet. It could mean we voted in, we voted out. I I don't know. Um that's on you. We're going to do our best to present it, give you all the information, and then take it from there.

And just uh Select W just did a great job of explaining everything. The the one thing I will add is originally this was going to come back to vote in December and we felt like we weren't going to be ready for that time frame because the state was really saying that we had till the end of the year to to come into compliance. Right. So for us to rush a meeting to rush a meeting to get it in front of the voters and not have things they should be then uh we didn't feel right. So, it's been pushed off, but we don't have an exact date yet, but it'll be after the calendar year. Jean going to present options and one more than one option. Uh, they want they want every option available. Um, and they may still say that's not enough and they'll impose whatever options they want

and and what he's he's speaking of is is the the possibility of breaking up the zoning too, right? So, it could be, you know, in certain pieces and there certain parts of compliance and whatever. So would would you present that to the town that more than one option and have the town vote on different options? That's what we're looking at now. Okay.

So the current line of thinking for the 3A is, you know, it was an overwhelming no on on the EOA side of town for exit the density of it all. Right? Then we want 750 units. It's three stories tall. So train of thought is do we divide it between both sides of town? Right? Do we incorporate and try to do senior housing things like that? Right? I know the church came in saying, "Hey, we have land. We tried this 20 years ago. Is this an option?" So, we're looking at all those things to make sure it's what we want as Freetown, right? Um, what does that look like yet? I I don't know. I I don't want to I don't want to get ahead of it and in a sense jinx it. Knock on wood. But at the same time, we are working at it. And quite frankly, every option is not a great option. No matter what we do, how we do it, no one's not everyone's going to love it. And that's just the facts, right? And then at the end of the day, the state's going to say yes or no. And then they're going to come back and say, "Well, thank you for that information. We're going to take that, modify it, stamp it. This is a go." and we have very little say and if we want to fight it that's our decision after the fact. And so

as a as a member of this committee from day one prior to it being established as a joint committee, a joint project, one one of the the common themes was it should be about equality and between the COA and the libraries from a space standpoint, we we we always seem to have supported kind of equalized needs and and then a lot of discussion came up with the grant and a 14,000 foot building has been bounced around for several years and and I for one was not of the the mindset that we needed something that large in this town. Um however and you know a comment was made about or the the finances and economically. So so if we look at it assuming let's assume that a $9 million grant is could be coming our way. What's the bottom line? We end up with a $24,000 square foot building at a $1.2 million less cost than what we would get a 14,000 foot building for. We we get 10,000 square ft of usable space in this town. Let's call it a library. However, I do see in the shared space there's an auditorium.

Yes. That qualifies as part of the library. Um, and maybe it's a larger auditorium, or maybe it's more multi-purpose rooms that perhaps become more usable in this town. I've always said, why would we once we build this large building, then we're going to pay for the heat, the operating costs, but at $9 million, that's like 90 years of operating cost that gets covered. Yeah, I hear you. $9 million is a lot of money. and one of the selectmen I think said it you know it's it's a no-brainer if if 3A was not an issue it wasn't on the table it would be a no-brainer we would probably be here I'm sorry we we would probably be here at with an initial presentation of a new 14,000 foot library

y so the risk is perhaps a little delay and we're used to delay but um maybe added cost of a 100,000 whatever 150 if if we have to go back to the drawing board and if we have to go back to the drawing board what might you estimate the de the time delay would be exactly that's my question would be too

so as it stands right now um we've kind of taxed the designer with saying all right you know our deadline for the grant the design grant is December um can you still meet that deadline if that's the direction we get from the town he said it's tight but we can do it he knew we had this meeting here tonight I understand there may be more discussion that has to happen I don't walk out of here with a direction tonight, but we would need one probably within the next week or so to give him his marching orders to see what direction he needs to go. Currently, to get through schematic design, he's contracted for $160,000. You would be it's included in the option two design cost. So, those would be payments you would make directly to him instead of using the grant funds. the risk on the design side is we designed to the program they would pay him but your your cost out of pocket would be about 100,000 to redesign. So either way if we went option two I'd say that we would have to be a little bit more thorough as we're minimizing one of the buildings and we want to try to build on that shared space concept. Um, we imagine at that point it would be more important to have community and committee input as to how that space were to morph out. I say if we if we had a if we needed a schematic design for option two, I would say we'd be ready for that with a schematic design and an estimate in March. I think that's a I think that's fair to say is March. Could be sooner, but I wouldn't want to commit.

Mark, as we contemplate that, I got a question. Let's say we go with option one, right? And we allocate space for let's say this massive space, the auditorium. We use it for let's say town meeting down the road, right? Which sounds like it's be big enough for that, which would be great, right? Let's face that. That'd be a fantastic instead of going to Lakeville.

How long can we because at the end of the day, the board selectman will decide what's what called, right? It could be a library, but 10 years from now, we call it Taj Mahal, right? It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, board of selectment with committees will change as needed, right? How long after the the fact, right, you said a year for the last 60%. Right. Do we have to wait a year before we do any changes to the library as far as what we call it, what we put on on file from the ML MLBC, or is that something that's a question um I need to research a little further. I I don't want to even give you my opinion on that. I don't know if it would be a a percentage perhaps that you might have to give back. I I I don't I don't see them being in a position to recall the entire grant.

Okay. But again, that's just my opinion. I need to get a I would need to get a hard answer. It's a possibility, right? At the end of the day, it could be a possibility. Yeah. So, that's something to think about. Okay. Or the other thing there could be just a time limit on it. Sure. Certain amount of time. Yeah. You know, and that's not what we're saying we're doing. That's just again thinking long term down the road is if we do get the grant, then we need to change it for something else down the road. We don't want to be penalized for something that the town needs versus what the grant needs. Right? That make sense? Well, we've always called it a COA library community building. Yep. Uh Amy Cyper, the library trustee chair. Yeah. I was thinking something similar that it really it's all the library is a town structure,

right?

So if we have an auditorium I I I mean the MBLC is not going to come in and say was this a book talk only like it's about the community. It's about the essence of that. Um, and I share some of the views here that this might be the most concrete example for the community to see that we will get more if we comply because we're going to be forced to comply anyway. Um, so if we're non-compliant as of January 1, because we're not able to have a meeting before then, this will potentially disappear anyway because it'll be the new year of compliance. But also, that's a really hard sales pitch to say to the town, listen, it's going to cost us more money to do this smaller and by ourselves. And I get the operating co cost component, but th that structure wouldn't be like this one in the sense that this is a 24-hour staffed structure, constantly operational. Um, those have very the COA and the library both have very set hours. Um, and certain things don't run at this, you know, the same pace that our emergency services do. So, I just think it's a really good example to give the town. We've been talking about this all along for months. Like what could we give the town to help them understand that it's coming for us anyway? Do we want to just take the money that we spent two decades earning cuz we've earned it so hard um and just wait the extra six months. It seems like a fair thing. We've already waited say 20 years for this grant. So six more months.

Yeah. So if I could just clar one thing. So the shared space component uh COA library is new to their program to have them allow that. And the caveat as to whether the shared space is grant eligible is who controls the space. It's got to be reasonable. You probably couldn't put a 12,000 square foot conference uh arena on the library and say we're going to get reimbursed for this because this is the library's 12,000t room. But within reason. And so that's why the the way that it's placed and the way that the space is controlled has to do with the grant eligibility of of that portion of the building. You said that site work was was in I'm sorry. No.

Okay. Go ahead. You said that site work was was included in your estimates your estimate estimated estimates. Yes. Estimated estimates. Does that mean somebody has looked at the site and and believes that it can be done that the building can be put there?

Yes. Yeah. We've got the survey from the current owner now. Uh he shared that with us and we shared that with the design team and that's what we've been working with. Um ultimately we would have to do some geotechnical investigation a little bit more so than they've done and we'd have to do a little bit more fine detail of a survey on our own, but we got enough information from them to to get through our first uh our first play at this which gets you through the grant without having to do any extra work on the property. with with the purchase of the land. We've already kind of talked about doing some of those um investigation of ground work because of issues that happened on this facility.

Yeah. And I would I was going to have conversation with Deb or whomever that that possibly I know that there was a separate appropriation I think for that. So that could maybe take a little pressure off this as well if we could work with whomever um to get those survey items and geotechnical um study items that we would need for the project included in whatever else it is that you're going to do on the property. That would be great. Yeah, I would um speak with Deb because we do have, you know, we have engineers involved on that facility already currently. So um I would talk with her about that. Yes,

Brando, I believe you had a question. Um, Brenda, um, I hear what you're saying, Wayne. It just makes me very nervous. You know, we've been at the town meetings. We see the what the culture of is a lot of the people in this town and they are not for that you know passing the 3A makes me very nervous that uh we move forward with the option one designing this 24,000 square foot building and it's often not because we're going to it only seems realistic to me that we're going to go back to option two. I just don't see us being able to do the option one and I feel like it's wasting a lot of time and it also seems to me do we need a 24,000 square foot building? I I personally don't think we do but and I worry about the operating cost but I do understand point well taken that you know we're not a 24 7 day a week operation that it's a limited amount of time but it just seems fiscally not responsible for us to go with a building that big and having to perpetuate the cost of that for however long. I'd love to see a bigger building. I just don't think it's fiscally responsible. That's that's my opinion. I flipped my opinion like six times. Well,

let's get some numbers. Right. So, one of the things we did for this meeting and as as well as taking a look at what the because at the end of the day when we discussed it as a a committee, one of the things we all said we don't want to raise taxes, right? We don't want to borrow against for this building and increase taxes and then we wanted to pay for our own. So, Matt kind of our Matt, our accountant back there, he say hi Matt. Um he we kind of looked at the numbers right to make sure what do we have in the in a sense in the bank and what can we afford without having to raise taxes and option two is I believe within the affordable landscape correct Matt as far as what we can and can't afford without raising taxes. Yeah. I actually think technically they both are. Okay. Perfect.

So we can afford this building one one or the other. just what we want to do because operating costs are you know if if you take the 150,000 average 300,000 let's say for that building plus this building luckily by the time that building gets started this building would be paid off which is nice right something to consider and think about but it is a financial burden it is no matter how we look at it there's still money being spent on this building right again 40 years in the making so yeah do we do we save money not having the town meeting in Lakeville do we say if if we could have the town meeting in in our own building. Do we save money? No, we don't we don't pay for this. I don't think we pay for it right now.

No, it's just it'd be in our own town. You know, it's plus other meetings as well. You can do the elections there. Um gatherings and things of that nature. Emergency shelter, it'd be open bigger for what we use it now. So there there's there's plenty of reasons to have extra room, but at the end of the day, it does cost money. Um and that's why the committee's here to really start thinking about that as like what do we how do we want to do this because we at the end of the day we have to present whatever option we have to the town right so far we've gotten the the land right so far everything is going well as far as uh with engineering and everything else we haven't got any bad news to date right so we're moving forward but you know what can we what's what does everyone want to do

when when I started with working with Nicole on the grant We were doing a lot of um looking at other libraries local and when I talked to people in town I use the reference point of Lakeville's library which everyone goes to to avoid our libraries and that's 16,000 square ft and to me 16 on paper sounds massive but then you go in their library and you're like man they've used every nook and cranny of that space. Um, and for residents who are using that right now that are like leaving our town to go do that, giving that reference point has impacted, I think, a lot of people's understanding. So, even if we were like, you know, some of that would be just like they have a community room and different spaces to use, we would decide how that looks for us. My son went there today.

Yeah. It's it's uh spot to go. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something I do see in this let's say everything moves forward. We have a building. No matter what's design, let's say there's a building in place years from now, I do see our local Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. I do see the library being used for the things that we use other talents for right here in our own local town. And I know it's a scary number, but at the end of the day, the town's in that position that we can't afford both. You know, it's without raising taxes. So, I'm poor. I like like select me Matthews. I've gone back and forth, I think, 10 times just from this afternoon. You know, it's I think I think Pat has something to say. Yes, she

Well, I I think we should plan for the future obviously and if this 3A has to come in here, it's going to bring in a massive amount of people. So, a 7,000 square foot building for each area may not be large enough to accommodate the extra population that we're going to get. Mhm. and we want this building to actually serve the community for over 30 years. So,

I mean, I understand the risk, but I also think that if we don't do it and we're saving the town a million dollars by option one and we get everything, we're the we're better off for it.

Yeah, I hear you. Um, right now currently, you know, we what we were just talking about is something right where the people going to other towns. Um, Rebecca, I'm sorry. I don't mean to call you out back there, but you know, she's done a good job of pulling people and we got about 6,000 square feet of space over at the at the COA now, I think, is what I was told. I think that's what I was told with the new Sounds good.

with the new space. um when I asked so uh don't quote me on that but then when I asked it was about 6,000 square ft and uh you know you're utilizing all that space so that gives people an idea it's just just trying to call out a reference point but uh as you do grow um different programs and stuff and to you know space and you know you need more space today than you did you know a couple of years ago when you walk through the door 40 years ago we made the we made a bad decision to go it alone and build a COA in a in a police station uh by using local people and and doing it on the cheap. It was a mistake 40 years ago. It's certainly we know it's a mistake now. Mhm.

Uh and we're suffering for it. I think we should plan for the future and go and do the best that we can for the town. Okay. Um so just we do have a agenda item here for the update on the grant. So Mark, was is that item two? Were you also covering that or was there any other comments on the grant?

There's uh really not an update on my end from the grant. um only in that we're currently in a holding pattern right now um with giving the designer a direction to pursue so that we can stay in compliance with the grant utilize those funds or we're going to step outside that compliance um and give him marching orders in that direction which would be working towards option two. Um so before we move on to item three which is actually for the selectman to vote on a proposed budget. I think the discussion we've been having extremely important and good feedback for for the selectman. Uh is there anyone else that wants to comment on uh from the COA library committee. I have one other question. Anyone else? So the the library had the the luxury of of a matrix to help them design square footage based on collection size etc. And COA doesn't have that. Um this committee and I'm just looking back at at the charge the selectman gave this committee and one excerpt is this committee is going to work collaboratively with the project manager and the architect to develop the final design of the building. and uh it although it says final design thus thus far uh at present we've not had that involvement. So uh I I know that there's some great feedback and uh from our director and very reliable but um going forward this committee needs to be I I believe more directly involved. Well, I will say there really has not been at this point any design work done for us to bring you in on.

We have a square footage. We have a square footage that's based on the paperwork that we have from the library study as far as a library side is concerned.

So, COA. So COA was based on a meeting we had with COA looked at the existing square footage and we felt that that $7,000 within the budget constraints we were given that the 7,000 square foot dedicated COA space with the addition of flex space in the library for other programs, other space for them to use would be sufficient for for her needs. She does have 6,000 square feet today. It's it's it's very disheveled. It's really not functional. It's it's not

it doesn't flow well. It's not thought out well. Um it's just very fragmented within the building. Um, so I do understand what you're saying and and we just haven't been able to get to the point when we put this meeting together was about I think it was two or three weeks ago when Deb and I spoke about having this meeting because we thought that it was important before we move forward with pen to paper which then starts to cost money on the design side that we have a direction to move. Once we have a direction to move, we have had a program meeting with Nicole. We've had a program meeting with COA. So, we have an idea how we want to try to lay this out to start with. And then once that's done, we'll come to the committees with at least two, if not four different layout options to start having that discussion about how to flex the space to meet everyone's needs.

We even given the existing COA space and the pods did a tremendous job of adding space, but even the pods are inadequate. Um, yogurt exceeds that space. They go into the vestibule um set up tables. It's a maximum of 80 people uh in the pod space and that's that's one of the larger multi-function rooms if you would,00 ft I think. Mhm. Yeah.

It's a good problem to have. It's it's it's one of those it's not a great problem, but it's one of those problems like we built it and it came and now we know we need bigger, right? So that's Yeah. Sorry. It's just I'm I'm happy that people are coming in and using the space that we put there now. um which speaks well to the need for this library and council of agent building. So,

and to to just throw it out there, you know, to be said and people talk about utilization of the new the new buildings, you know, we've been involved in several COA projects, uh, several library projects, and, you know, a lot of folks will say, you know, that that's a big library. You're proposing a very large library, proposing a very large space for COA to operate in. And the truth is, when you build it according to the program, the buildings are utilized. uh we see enrollment and participation in programs in COAs bump in some some towns 300% increase

in utilization um and some of them are big we're working on one right now that's going to be about 24,000 square ft just a COA and they're working out of a currently about a 400 square foot space that's kind of annexed off of another building it's it's really not but they've been working at that for getting a new area for 10 12 years. So it's a it's a long road. Johnson Roberts designed this Townson building with a joint joint COA library with a with some shared space in the middle. Do you know what the square footage was of the library and COA in that in that? Which one was that? Townsend. No, I don't off the top. I don't I don't know what that was. That square footage. I can find that out though.

They This is what they showed us their I I visited that building, but uh they show it in their brochure. We're just wondering um what the breakdown in size was between the COA side and the library side. I can find that out. Certainly find that out. And again, those are that's a lot of the information that we'll get into. Um we we try to design the projects that fit Freetown for Freetown. We do bring in some comparatives and and that's some some of the tools that we use to configure what this building um would be. And again, we just haven't we haven't gotten to that point in this process yet. Yes, sir.

23,500 square feet for combined. Combined. I'll have to get what that breakdown is. 15,000 ft for the library, 3,000 for the senior center, 5,500 for a meeting room. Okay, there you go. All right. So, if everyone has, you know, everyone spoke, they would like to I think I'm going to I'm ready to call for a vote here on our direction. Um, can I just get Mark and you're all set then? Yeah, we're good on If there's any other questions, I'm I'm here. I'm not running away. I'll I'll call a vote and then you guys can close your meeting, right? And we'll see how this goes. I'm curious to know how they vote. All right. You know, as far as Are they vote? I think it's only for us to vote on,

right? I I'm just curious to see what their opinion is as far as the committee. Seems like a mix. I think you've heard a mixed opinion um from members. Why don't we take a poll? Yeah, I'd be curious to see what you folks think. You you're you're in the committee. Um well, the entire committee is not here. Right. Just this doesn't this vote doesn't count in a sense other than just giving us your your your feedback as far as what you're thinking at this moment. So option, we know option one then is with the grant. Option two is without.

And to to get the size building that you just said, 24,000 square ft, you'd have to go with option one with the grant in order to get that square footage to make it work and roll the dice and hopefully we everything goes smooth. So I vote for the larger building at this point. So you're option one. Option one. I'm option one. Option one. Option one. Option two. Option two. Excuse me. That's four to two at the moment. Option one. Option one. Five to two. Separate. I mean option one.

Six to two. Uh that's it for members. Yes. Jeff. Yeah. You vote in six to2 option one. Perfect. Good. Yeah. And so my view here is that I think I think realistically unfortunately we might end up at option two based on the current information, but I'm not ready to give up on option one yet. So I think we still move forward with it. I think if we're we're trying to build a building for 30 years, right, at least I think that if we unfortunately do get delayed by a couple months because of a redesign to to go with, you know, what the option to, I think that's I'm I'm okay with living with that. You know, it's not great, but I but that's okay. So, for those reasons, I'm going to enter a motion to move forward with option one.

Do I have a motion? Um, I'm torn, man. I really am. I want I was like almost like, do I want to hold the vote and and think about it till the next time? I It's a big decision. It really is. Um, I guess the part that gets me is I sit here and I think about it and I say us holding on this vote right now just continues to delay it. The the other part too I'll just say is that okay so say say we move forward with option one at least design is starting there's going to be and if we have to change that to go to option two it's not going to be all all thrown out right we're still we're at least getting the ball rolling

and you know yes we're going to have to pay for some that out of pocket I understand that but at least we're moving forward with our best possible options and then we can deviate from that with the change cost understood to go with option two if if we do not you know if we lose the grant

right keep in mind al also this grant process was voted in at town meeting right to go for the grant to get us to this stage today so it is still in line what the residents voted for u two cycles back right so here we are today with the grant option now there's some some juggling to do with the 3A that's for sure that's certain I I am on that on that meeting maker and there's some good options being out there you know, there's a there's a chance that the state comes in and says you're out and there's a chance the state comes in. Well, you're still in compliance. They've already said they won't claw back the design phase, which is nice, right? So, that's that's that's assured, right? We have that email. It's I'm going to hold on to that. It's going to be on the wall forever, right? However, is there a period that we might be held up because of the 3A discussion? That is a possibility. Then, per the state, they're going to make us do it anyways down the road. So, at some point, I'm sure there was just we're in the game. It's like playing the lottery, like power ball. You can't win unless you play, right? But I'm also a cheap guy, very fiscally conservative. So, I I understand your your your heart your heartburn on this because it's a lot of money. Um, but ultimately, the residents, we're still following what they want is uh moving forward with the next phase.

But, so I think Dev's your Deb is online and has a comment. Deb, you there? Your decision, too. you know, yeah, I I am here. Um, I don't I don't necessarily have a comment. I think I think the risk is, you know, we move forward with the grant and the risk is $100,000 in a few months time. I I think that's an okay risk to take for the $9 million grant. Um, but just so you know, you didn't second the motion, so we discuss forbidden discussion discussing.

All right. Thanks, trying to keep us out of out of, you know, out of trouble here. All right. Thank you. So, my motion is there for uh will will someone make the motion for option one? Motion made. I second it. All in favor? I I. Selectman Lopes. Yes. Selectman Zagger. Yes. Matthews. Yes. Okay, that's a fun one. Yeah, that's that's tough. And then the last step here is uh we have next steps of the combined COA library building. So, I think Deb, you're back there. What What are we looking for for for actual next step? Is there anything specific we need to do or just talk?

I think you should set the perimeter for the budget, right? And you might want to get get a little more information from Matt. I know we I know he's prepared. Um I I I think he can tell you what we can afford or at least with, you know, with the information we have today, what the town can afford realistically without raising taxes. And I think that my number has been around 15 million, but he can confirm that. And I just think that might be with what's going on today. Just I'd like the selectman to solidify that's the budget or it will be not to exceed number, not to exceed 15 million. At least that gives everybody the perimeters and the directions. And I'm not sure that that's the number. I'm I'm going to ask Matt to confirm the number based on what information we have available to us today just to keep everybody sort of in line. I mean, one of the things I was listening to was um the COA think maybe they need more space. I think, you know, if we're looking at, hey, we're going to we got 15 million and with the grant we're going to spend 13, do we, you know, do we need 300 more square feet for the COA and is that doable? I think having the budget drive the plan on some level is very uh is very makes good sense, right? That's how we all live our lives. We we have a budget and we go buy a car within our budget. This is really should be no different. Although most municipalities don't operate that way. I want I want to operate that way. I want to know realistically what we can afford without having to go to the taxpayers and ask for a debt exclusion or ask um for an override. Um again, we never know what's going to happen, but I think that that would make prudent sense to just say, okay, this is the budget based on today's factors, what we can afford.

Okay, perfect. Thanks, Matt. What can we afford?

All right. Uh so right now between stabilization and overlay surplus, the town has $1 million available. Uh we'll probably get another 2 or 3 million in free cash once that's certified uh in a week or two and then we can pretty comfortably borrow 10 million. Um, I think Deb seems to think there's like a possibility that that the BP uh regional district thing is going to like the cost will skyrocket. So, I think it's a good idea probably not to borrow more than 10 million. Mhm.

Just to leave wiggle room there. But that still puts us uh like well over $20 million. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I I don't want to go that high. I was going to say I'm not going that high for the record. Yeah, no one does. Let's get that out of the way. Nobody wants to spend that kind of money, but it's good to know that it's the options there if something catastrophic happens down the road. But this also also means there's other projects in town that's needed. So, we're looking out for that as well.

It literally took the words out of my mouth. I was going to say there's too many other things that need to happen within this town. And I I want to give um both these groups um everything we possibly can, but I don't want to take everything and and you know throw not throw throwaway is a terrible term, but use every bit that we have available to us on this one building. Um, so the cost of town here I'm seeing so it's my look at 154. All right. On option one, am I making that up? I'm looking the bottom the bottom line there. 13782.

I might have I think there's a new one that I today. Okay. In the packet. Oh, all right. Cuz I'm in the packet saying the same thing. New one's a little bit lower. It's a 13 and change. The next one's 14. All right, that makes more sense. I was getting a little confused earlier because I'll show you. Yeah, we gave it a little tweak in my packet. Okay, I definitely do. All right, so that so that I was going to reason why I brought that up is I was I wasn't going to go I don't think our top number should be below that. Right. So, but if that's that gives us a wiggle room at 15 million if So, um so I'll enter entertain a motion here that this project shall not exceed 15 million. Motion made second.

All in favor? I I select Lopes. Yes. Selectman Zer. Yes. Selectman Matthews. Yes. All right. I think we're good on this part of the agenda. Yeah. want to close your meetings. So just before we call for adjournment uh in case anyone asks next meeting we'll just have it as to be determined. Correct. Yeah. Mark if you could get with the architect and see what the next uh time frame where we can start meeting as far as next steps next phase and then yeah we'll get it I'll get that done first thing in the morning. Have them get a schedule hopefully can get you a schedule of proposed dates um by the end of this week if not the end of this week. the very beginning of next week. No later than Monday or Tuesday next week, but I'm going to try to get it for you this week.

And does during the day still work for for everybody? Like if that if that works out, so we give you a better option. Okay, that's like we did last time. Yep. Great. Perfect. And I just like to say thank everyone for having Thank you to everyone for having like thoughtful like you know interesting debates without getting upset about anything. This was this is refreshing and this was a very good constructive conversation. So we have a good group. We have a good group. Thank you for supporting the project. Thank you. Uh, it's 7:02 p.m. If I could call for a motion for an adjournment of our committee. I move we adjourn. Second. Who may motion? Paul. I second it here. Thank you. You do need to roll call because Ron zone. I beg your body. You have to roll call cuz we're on zone.

Yep. Okay. So, roll call again. Oh, mom and Land. Wayne Jam. Paul Luben. Brenda Melro. All right. Okay. All right. Thank you. I think we're good, right? So, we're going to more than welcome to stick around, but if you don't want to, we have a a pretty big agenda coming up now. Good job, Wayne. I'll just let Yeah, we're going to take a moment while everyone clear out.

I was here. I don't know. We were all here 40 years ago, right? When we decided to to try to build a COA and a police station with a terrible decision. I was here when they wanted. I was only 5 minutes late. That was terrible. Yes, I was. We were all part of that. We're all part of that. We made a big mistake not to go with colony at the beginning. We're going to suffer for that. We nobody we uh the cost of it is but I think that it's because they have more they have more choices more choices you know I'm struggling

they going to have big deal. So, I'll see you guys.

All right. So, um All right. So, moving on to agenda item five. So this discussion of vote whether approve open session minutes from 992025 and 924 2025 I'll entertain a motion to approve those open session minutes. A motion made second. All in favor? I I selectman Lopes. Yes. Selectman Zer. Yes. Selectman Matthews. Yes.

Okay. Agenda item six, discussion of vote whether to authorize Council on Aging director with Council on Aging board approval to utilize formula grant monies from fiscal year 2024 and 2025 for anything that supports Freetown seniors andor the Council on Aging. This seems to make sense to me. Are you coming up? Come on down. Okay. You just want to come up and say hello? Sure. Yeah. So, is this just to kind of u make it a little easier to to utilize the monies? It's exactly that. Okay.

Yeah. I've been having to come um pretty much for any any larger purchase that I have to I wanted to add with the formula grant or pay for out of the formula grant, I've been having to come back. So, it just makes it a little bit easier for me to um especially the routine things. We spend um you know the formula grant on instructors and just different things around the center. It's it's very routine. So, it's that makes a lot of sense. And uh Deb made this recommendation that we just kind of loop it all in so this can stop. Yeah. All right. Any questions or concerns with that? That makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, that makes complete sense.

Okay. So with that, I'll entertain a motion to um authorize council on aging director with council on aging board approval the u the right to utilize formally grant monies from fiscal year 2024 and 2025 for anything that supports free town seniors andor council on aging. A motion made second. All in favor? I I select Lope. Yes. Sleman Zer. Yes. Sleman Matthews. Yes. Item seven, discussion of vote whether approve the 2026 senior workoff list. I mean, any problems there? Yeah. No, they they've been doing a good I've been seeing them everywhere. So, good job for them.

Just a just something to mention, the program doubled in size this year. Um it's almost 20 people. It's 19. It went from 10 to 19.

It's a lot of volunteers um to manage. So, I have put out emails to the town hall to try to think about things maybe um some of the volunteers could do. We started thinking about more things at the senior center that they could possibly volunteer at. I met with Principal Ward at Freetown Elementary uh to see if maybe we could um have some volunteers in the classrooms there to to help with a variety of different um help the teachers in the classrooms. and uh he was very very receptive. Um it seems like they were trying to partner with the the town as well. So it was one of their action plans. Um so it seems like it was a good situation. It's just a lot to manage.

I can imagine. Yeah, they I I do um know that other towns with higher populations, higher older adult populations have limited more than what we have. Um it's something that we may want to look into. We limit it at 30. Um I Middleboro has like triple the population we do and they limit at 15 to 20. Okay. So it's something we may want to look at in the application. Um it's a tremendous amount of work uh to manage the volunteers. They can go up to 133 hours. Um and they need guidance on where to find those hours. And um so if we were to hypothetically down the limit it would be like on a first come first- serve basis. Okay. That makes sense.

Which is hard. It's hard, but I It's hard. I think if it was up to 20, it would be Yeah. But and I think we should do it based off of what we can theoretically look at and say what can what can we do where we're not just having them there just to have them there. It gets to that point sometimes. Yeah. And I guess so to your point why you're reaching out, right? So if we say well now we're talking with principal ward, maybe it's the food pantry, maybe it's something, right? where we have all these different things and we say okay now we'll have this x amount of hours it makes sense ba budget the amount of people based on the need

correct and I think if we were going to add places like the food pantry if we were going to add because there are very specific things on the application I think it has to be within the town we can't yeah and actually there was even a question when I brought up principal ward there was a question that I I couldn't do schools I wasn't thinking about budget but it on the application. So, I'm I was a little confused. Um, yeah, I I wasn't Yeah, no, that's okay. It's a wonderful idea. I would love to be able to Yeah. that option, sports fields, things like that, like how physical, you know, Yeah. It gets tricky, right?

Where it it gets very very tricky. We have people with emotional disabilities, physical disabilities. Um, and we can't discriminate. Yeah. becomes very very complicated. Yeah, I can understand that. And if we start getting and this is it's not a good problem, but it's a problem. If we get to the point where we're we're having to limit the amount of people, we're probably should we should probably come up with parameters for the following year because I wouldn't want Rebecca to apply and get denied this year and then reply and get denied again next year, especially if we're having to do some sort of lottery or something. We should probably if it gets to that point where we're reaching capacity and we truly are that we come up with some parameters to try and make sure

we are right now. Sounds like Well, she's saying we were up to 30, but that's double from last year. So, I'm just anticipating u a situation that we are going to have trouble managing. Okay. Okay. All right. That's very good. Very helpful. All right. So, but I think we're good with this year's list. All right. So I'll a motion to approve the 2026 senior workoff list from the agenda. Motion made I second. All in favor? I I select Lopes. Yes. Selectman Zagar. Yes. Blackman Matthews. Yes.

Okay. Agenda item eight. This is discussion of vote whether approve the request to close the council on aging for the annual holiday party hosted by Senator Rogers, Representative Fiola, and Representative Ol. I can't pronounce that one. and have a COA staff to work from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. that day at the BFW to assist with this event. Make sense? Mhm. I think it's kind of self-explanatory. Anything you want to add there?

Just that they kind of came up with this date without me this year. So, like it was well past it wasn't part of our We usually do it on Thursdays, so it's not even an issue. And then they came up with a Friday and it worked better for Lakeville and uh Berkeley. Um, so I said, "Well, I'll ask you guys and see what you say." My team's okay. I've already talked to them about it. They're okay with working uh 10 to 2 that day. Mhm. So, yeah. Do I have Wait, do I have a day here? It's um Friday, December 12th. I'm sorry. Okay. That was No, no, no. It's I didn't put it on there.

Okay. Um All right. So, I'll entertain a motion to um close the cuts on agent for the holiday party on December 12th from 10:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. Motion made. Second. All in favor? I I. Sleman Lopes. Yes. Sleman Zager. Yes. Blackman Matthews. Yes. All right. Agenda item nine. discussion of vote whether to declare the cook right 60-in gas restaurant range as surplus and whether to donate to the veterans of foreign wars post VFW 6643 in East Freetown. And I saw your note here. So we got a new one, right?

Yes, we've had a new one since we um started the Tuesday lunch program. So pretty much since early 2024. Um this stove um that we're talking about went to the fire station. Yeah. After us. Um, and I don't know what happened with them and this stove. Tell you all about my my experience. There's no automatic start on this particular stove. So, you have to bend down low to get at it. So, the new stove has an automatic start on it. Okay. So, that's better for the people that are using it.

Fire station didn't need it. It's just kind of stored at fire station 2. Deb suggested to see if the VFW could utilize it and Bruce Wilbur said that they would like to have it. All right. Perfect. Perfect. As long as someone's, you know, that's perfect. Good that someone's using it. It's not just sitting still collecting dust. Okay. So that Sorry, Debbie. You good?

Yeah. This is a commercial stove and when we went to put it in the fire station, we were going to have to put this incredible Anel system that was really expensive, which the COA has, but it didn't make sense to put it in the fire station. So, we just decided to not utilize it in the fire station. It's a brand new stove. Um, and the VFW is all set up, and they're such a good partner to the town. They let us use their space frequently. Um, we have our Christmas parties. They let um the the Bob Clearer, the veterans agent, use their space often to meet with veterans. So um it's a win-win for the for them and for us. Perfect. Thanks, Deb. Appreciate the background on that.

Okay. So with that, I'll entertain a motion to declare the Cookite 60-in gas restaurant range a surplus and to donate to the VFW Indies Freetown. A motion made second. All in favor? I. I. Selectman Lope. Yes. Selectman Zar. Yes. Selectman Matthews. Yes. Okay. Moving on to agenda item 10. I think you're all set. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Pleasure as always.

Okay. So, agenda item 10 discussion of vote whether increased the winter 2025 and 2026 plow rates by $5 an hour. And Chuck provided or we have provided the rates in the packet here. So the 8ft plow is at was at 105. 9 foot plow at 111 and 10 foot plus was at 130 and a loader with three icy bucket. I don't know. Three 3 cy. Wow. Cubic yard. Cubic yards. Can't read. Sorry guys. Was $150 an hour. So all of these will just go up by $5 an hour, right? No. Yeah.

Yep. That is it. And obviously this is just to try to uh not have the crisis we have every year where we can't find enough drivers, right? I think Lola could confirm. Did you send the applications out like two weeks ago, right? And we have nothing back. Yeah. Not a one. Yeah, that's happened. Yeah, sounds familiar.

Well, I was going to say the $5 helps, but it's still not it's not going to make a lineup of people. It's really just to do with the insurance, the amount of people who are actually plowing, the amount of snow that's fallen on the ground and people not wanting I mean it's all things we've already talked about, but I mean the $5 an hour is very much in line with you know not being crazy. So yep. Okay. So with that though do what we can. So I'll entertain a motion to increase the uh winter 2025 2026 snowpower rates by $5 an hour. Motion made. Second. All in favor? I I. Sleman Lopes. Yes. Zagger. Yes. Sleman Matthews. Yes.

All right. Agenda item 11. Discussion to vote whether to approve the road opening permit for water service at 118 South Main Street in Sonet. So, um, per the chief, they're going to also need a road, well, sorry, two things. They're going to need two police there on site to close the road details. And they also need a what's the other one called? Trench permit. By the building commissioner. Okay. So, we can appro we can approve the road opening permit just um pending those two things. Right. Correct. All right. And these folks, they lost water. Yeah. Their whole well

the well failed. So, they're luckily where they are, they can easily connect into, but these are the things we got to do. So, so with that, I'll entertain a motion to approve the road opening permit for water service at 118 South Main Street Sonet. Um, with as as long as they get the trench permit and um and follow the chief's rules of having two details. Motion made second. All in favor? I I select Lope. Yes. Sman Zer. Yes. Sman Matthews. Yes, you can clean that up. That was a terrible motion. Okay. Agenda item 12. discussion of vote whether authorized town administrator to approve inside the agreement between the town of Freetown and Mccclure engineering and professional services for the South Main Street Bridge Preservation Project.

Yeah, there's another one that's coming up.

Okay. Any questions or concerns on this? No. No. Everything seems like it's in line. All right. All right. So with that, entertain a motion to authorize town administrator to approve and sign the agreements between the town of Freetown and McLar engineering for the professional services of South Main Street Bridge preservation. A motion. Second. All in favor? I I I. Selectman Lopes. Yes. Selectman Zer. Yes. Selectman Matthews. Yes. Jen item 13, discussion of vote awarding the milling and paving overlay of Leslie Lane and Various Streets project. And it looks like this the low bid tiozi. Miose Miozi. Mhm. Miozi. And they came in at what? 30 315 $315,000

$610. $610, which is significantly Yeah. lower than everybody else. We got We got a good amount of bids here, too. Yeah. And I I spoke with truck and asked him and he said that we've done uh business with this company in the past. Uh it's been a few years but uh had nothing but good things to say about them. So um they were currently in Berkeley working and then they were coming right over to Freetown. Perfect. Yeah. And they have all the insurance, everything they need, right? Yeah.

All right. Great. So, now that I intend a motion to um to award the milling and paving overlay of Leslie Lane and various street projects to T Mazzolei my LLC, it's a good Italian name right there. Yeah. Do I have a motion to award that? Motion made. Second. All in favor? I. Sleman Lopes. Yes. Sleman Zer. Yes. Sleman Matthews. Yes.

And I only have to say this company one more time. Uh and then agenda M14 is discussion of vote whether to approve the agreement between the town of Freetown and T Miozi LLC for the uh milling and paving overlay of Fuzzy Lane various streets. So it's just to approve the agreement and entertain a motion to approve the agreement. A motion made second. All in favor? I I select yes. Zagger. Yes. Matthews. Yes. Agenda item 15, discussion vote whether approve and ratify the signature for the service invoice for emergency repairs of fire engine 3 in the sum of $9,12811. And this is to what's that company? It's always a funny company. Bulldog.

Bulldog. It was like a bad um sensor of some sort. Coolant leak. Oh, I thought maybe I read something else. There's a lot of things on the list here. I had to find where the coolant was coming. Oh, yeah. I just I just read one of them. Okay, there's a whole bunch of them. All right. Well, we got to keep our fire truck on the road, so I don't think we have much of an option here. Yep. Any questions or concerns? No. All right. And I'm sure the fix has already been made, so it doesn't really matter. So, with that, I'll entertain a motion to approve and modify a decenture for the service invoice for emergency repair of 53 in the sum of $9,12811. Motion made second. All in favor? I I Sleman L. Yes. Slman Zer. Yes.

Matthew. Yes. Agenda. Item 16, discussion of vote whether to approve the letter of agreement for professional engineering services for MS4 general permit assistance for fiscal year 2026 between the town of Freetown and Apex Companies LLC. There you go. And this is something we do every year, isn't it? Yeah. 10 year permit. This is year 10. Year eight of the 10. Mhm. That's crazy. How long storm water management permit that we're required to have? Yeah. I'm just I'm just thinking like I guess I've been around for a while now. Okay. Cuz I remember when this was not your

Okay. Any questions or concerns? Nope. No. All right. All right. So, I'll entertain a motion to approve the letter of of agreement for professional services for the MS4 general permit assist uh assistance for fiscal year 226 between the town of Freetown and Apex Companies LLC. Motion made. Second. All in favor? I I roll call. Roll call. Sorry. Yes. Zer. Yes. Matthews. Trying to pull up the map for the next one.

Appreciate it. All right. Agenda item 17. Discussion of vote whether the town would prefer to sell or retain for it purposes a property foreclosed upon for real estate taxes located on Chase Road parcel 240-16. And it looks like conservation would like this property. That's the That's the latest and greatest information. That is correct. That's great. So the vote here, Deb, is just retain it for conservation or how do we do this?

Just retain it for for our own purposes and then we'll figure out from there if we want to actually transfer it over to um conservation or what we want to do with it once we have it. Okay. Yeah, because I was just going to say why at this point if we have it, why what would be the benefit of us putting it into conservation, we might as well hold on to it for now if we decide we're going to keep it and just keep it as general land that's under the town's guidance,

right? I I mean, we may come back and say, "Hey, you should put this into under the covenant of conservation land, but for right now, I would just the vote would be that we're going to retain it and not sell it for town purposes and then we'll go from there." Yeah. Yeah. There might be some kind of like liability like what happens. Someone gets Yeah. I don't know. Okay, perfect. That makes sense. So, with that, I'll entertain a motion to retain the Chase Road property uh Chase Road parcel 2416 um for the town's use. Motion made second. All in favor? I I second Les. Yes. Second. Zagger. Yes. Second M.

Yes. Okay. Item 18. So this is discussion and vote whether to send a letter of support requested by state representative Chris Marky for support of bill H99, an act establishing a deer population control commission. So this one's interesting. It's a it's a great proposal. Yeah,

it's you know as a hunter you know we have a lot of deer and this proposal it helps with the population and everything else. I know some people don't care for that kind of thing. That's okay. That's that's their opinion. However, there is a need. It it is a safety thing as well as as well as feeding not just feeding families, but you know, when we have too many in one thing, it it gets a little dangerous.

I saw 13 deer on Narrow Road the other day in one in one psych. I stopped my car and I counted 13 deer. It's crazy. and a couple. So, um, you know, my questions also Hunter, um, how do they plan because I couldn't find anything about how they plan on downsizing population? Is it going to be through added permits to hunters? So, the way that what he's trying correct so one extending the the time frame as well as extending permits to hunters so that they can better call the population of theirs in different parts of Massachusetts and Okay. And it'll be um thought out over time. It's not going to be a one-year.

Correct. Well, he looking at this proposal, it looks like it's it's a longterm thing. It's something they want to keep stay on, see what's the population trends, and then just go from there. But it looks like it's probably a longterm program. Yeah. Because we do have quite a bit of them out there. Have a couple beautiful ones in the backyard every single day. No. And I as long as it's something like that, I'm Yeah. obviously for it. But it's just making sure that um it's done in a in a reasonable No, I agree. And this is something that hunters do want. Um I I've have had a chance to go with the gun clubs and everything else and ask the hunters about this and they're like this is a great idea. One extends their season in a sense, but also gives you more opportunities to fill your tag once you do get it, which is nice. Yeah. So,

yeah, I just wasn't sure if it was going to allow people more permits, more, you know, I didn't know. So that's what I was really trying to grasp on it and I really wasn't seeing anything too concrete in what I was reading. So that's what I wanted to ask. I looked at it was extra chances of fill in your freezer. Mhm. Yeah. All right. Sounds good. So that entertain a motion to send a letter of support uh to Senator Representative Christopher Murphy for support of bill H99. Motion made. Second. All in favor? I. I. Sleman Lopes. Yes. Sman Zer. Yes. Sleman Matthews. Yes. Is the draft letter in the packet that was provided okay or do you want it changed? The draft letter that was a draft letter to send of support. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

Okay. Um, thank you. So, now I'll take it over to personnel. All right. That is me. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right. Number 19, personnel board. Uh, rescend the appointment of Trevor Matthews as regional school negotiating committee board of selectment representative effective 99205. I so say and you have been rescended. Select members.

It agenda 20 discussion vote on whe to approve the following appointments. A Nicole Keller as library director building committee representing library council on aging library community building committee library representative public records clerk and library effective 1014 2025 through 6:30 2026. Uh Nicole um has been thoroughly interviewed by both the the library trustees as well as u us and uh she is a fantastic candidate for this position. So very excited. Yeah. So are we.

Um and then B we have also have Toby Christian to conservation commission 922 2025 through 6:30 2026. All right. If there are no comments, questions, or objections, I will uh well, I will make the motion to appoint uh the individuals identified as uh 20 A and 20B of this agenda. Make that motion. I will second it. All in favor? I I sle Yes. Suckman Zer. Yes. Sman Matthews, yes.

And lastly for personnel item agenda 21, discussion vote whether based on prior experience to provide more vacation time for the newly appointed library director. So a question came up uh a year or two years ago regarding other department heads that we had in the way our bylaws are written in town. Well, we since semi amended those bylaws to allow a provision of 15 days, right? 15 days meaning 15 working days, which is 3 weeks vacation, which is a change from what it used to be. We did this based on the feedback from other department heads and other employees to make sure that we are able to select and attract the talent here to Freetown because let's face it, we're all competing against the same pool of of candidates for different towns, municipalities. By having this as an additional option, we're able to not only hire but also attract new candidates for different positions we have here in town, especially the department head. So,

um, do we need a vote? I think. Yeah, we Any questions, concerns on that? That's, you know, it's one of those things that No, I mean the the the stuff was changed for a reason because it's a need. It's what the way that um candidates are looking now more than just a lot of people don't look at just pay. They they look at the overall package. So, we had to change it to be competitive. And I'm okay with it because it's what it is. It's it stinks, you know, for some people, but it's it's great. I think I'm I'm happy that we we were able to make the changes for going forward.

Absolutely. And the beautiful thing about about it is it was feedback provided by the bylaw employees that that that came to us at different meetings and discussion of that discussion to say, "Hey, this is what we can do to not increase budgets but also attract people. So, it's it's a win-win. It I'm glad it's here." Me, too. And and she has experience, right? So, that we can look at it, too, because we've done different things with different people. We we did it with a police officer one time, right? Where we made Yeah. some changes based on his experience with other towns and stuff. So, it's you know. Yeah.

All right. Uh I entertain the motion to let me see how let's see how we discuss this. Uh I'll make the motion to make that amendment to for the newly appointed library director based on prior work experience to go to three weeks. Two to three weeks. Correct. Up to the 15 days vacation days. All right. All right, I'll make that motion. I will second it. All in favor? I I. Select Lopes. Yes. Slickman Zagar. Yes. Sleman Matthew. Yes. Okay. So, we're going to sign and then adjourn.

Jeez. Just made a big mess. These are just you

just me. Yep. I mean, I'm not a hunter personally, but I, you know, therefore, I'm not I'm not one to speak on this topic, and I do like deer meat. So, there you go. It's funny. My wife my wife is uh looking at our freezer. We had a power outage on the long go and our freezer has been, you know, a little chest freezer and I saw a Home Depot ad uh from Maine that said one deer, two deer, three deer. Who knows the size of the freezers? I was like, we need to go for the stand up three deer.

It so happened I was reading the thing from the senator marquee and I'm going, you know, this is was meant to be. It's hilarious.

So this way everybody Yeah. easy. I think shaking the hand like my grandpa. All right, we're good. So, with that, I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. Motion made. Second. All in favor? I I select. Yes. Ser. Yes. Matthews. Yes. Thank you. [Music]