Board of Commissioners - Regular Meeting

I call the Brown County Board of Commissioner meeting to order tonight to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. First order of business. Um, any additions to the agenda or changes?

Yeah, I'd like to add something. Uh, at the admin meeting about a week ago, you made an accusation that I was false. Uh, we can put that we can talk about it now or we can put it down here at other. Yeah, I don't think we should be disc. That's not appropriate. That was discussed at the meeting. Stop. You can't make false accusations of threats, Clark, against me or anybody else. We're not going to discuss that at numbers. Where else are we going to discuss it? You're off off agenda. Out of order, so please.

No, just just bear with me. You can't make false accusations, Clark. If I can't come in that room back there and have to worry whether you're going to make a false accusation against me, then it's going to be kind of hard for me to come into admin meetings. Is it not Ron? You made false allegations against me. So, it's he said, she said, we got a middleman that it's not professional. Well, did you make it to the prosecutor office to file a client? You can do that, Ron. No, I'm not. Do you I told you if you f Hey guys, if I might, this is this is more of a conversation to have uh not on public time. That's correct. Thank you, James. Our attorney,

James. James, we need to have a meeting about this. To be honest, it sounds like this is something you guys should probably uh take care of behind closed doors. Uh not so much on uh the public public's time. Uh, sounds like more of a an issue unrelated to the uh, purpose of the commission right here. Yep, that's correct, James. Okay. All right. Approval of minutes and claims. I didn't see anything wrong with make a motion to approve the minutes and claims. I second. Okay. All those in favor, we can say I on something like this since we always agree. All those in favor? I. I.

I. Okay. It's approved. New business. Ordinance for petition to reszone 2.263 acres of property owned by Jesse Clark from primary residential R1 to general business. APC recommended disapproval on a 4 to1 vote with two members absent. Kayla, would you want to present the report?

Okay. Do you guys want the entire report or just the certification?

Please. Please. Yeah. Report. All right. This is the staff report for the clerk reszone docket number 26-RZ-01. The hearing date before the ABC was February 24th, 2026. The request is to reszone 2.262 acres from primary residential R1 to general business GD. Petitioner and property owners Jesse Clark. Location 1335 Greasy Creek Road, Nashville is also known as Malo Endeavor's Minor Subdivision, lot number one. The property is located on the east side of the road in Washington Township, approximately 700 ft south of the intersection of Greasy Creek Road and Kramer Road, Cremer Kramer, depending on how you say it. The zoning and current land use. The property is currently zoned primary residential R1 and two accessory buildings exist. The property has a small amount of flood plane though most of the property and buildings are located outside of the 1% annual chance flood area per the effective per findings. One, the petitioner is requesting that the application for RU zone be considered a zoning map correction. He has outlined several reasons that he believes the property should be zoned commercially, including the tax the current tax classification as well as previous business uses. Two, the petitioner purchased the property in November of 2025 and immediately began operating his electrical business. The petitioner is requesting reszoning approval to continue using the existing buildings as the base of operations for Clark Electrical Services. Three. Prior to the petitioner purchasing the property, the previous owner the previous property owner was running an illegal auto repair business from the existing barn in a residential district which was in violation of the

Brown County zoning ordinance. Staff was in communication with the prior owning prior owner regarding the violation. Four, when the parcel was on the market for sale, the realtor and all potential buyers were informed of the property zoning and that a current violation existed on the parcel due to the zoning district. Five, if reszoning is successful, the business will be conducted in the two large accessory buildings existing on property. The barn near the road measures 100 ft x 40 ft, while the barn further east measures 62 ft x 40 ft. Six eight employees are currently employed by Clark Electrical Services, consisting of three office employees and five field technicians and apprentices. Although the business is open 24/7 for customers emergencies, the office hours of operation are 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Seven, according to the Brown County zoning ordinance, general business districts are established to include areas that are appropriate to all kinds of business and services. Eight, a change to GT zoning would allow additional uses at the location, including including residential, agricultural, light, industrial, and a variety of other business uses with and without the necessity of a special exception. Nine, electricity is provided to the structures by South Central Indiana RMC. 10, water services provided by Brown County Water Utility Incorporated. 11, the structures themselves and ingress and egress already exist. Some flood plane exists on the parcel near the road and does touch one building at one of the open bay garage areas. 12. Permit number 1476 was issued and approved as submitted on December 22nd, 2025 for a commercial driveway permit from the Brown County Highway Department. 13. An old septic system exists on the property. The petitioner was advised that if any changes are planned to

buildings, a new system would be required. A septic system specifications worksheet was reviewed by the Brown County Health Department on June 9th of 2025. The worksheet indicates that the soils are appropriate for installation of a system if the system is designed and built 1 foot above the flood line. 14. According to the official zoning maps within section 18, parcels sprinting on Greasy Creek Road are zoned primary residential R1 and flood plane FP. Parcels sprinting along Kramer Road are zoned R2 secondary residential 15. Approximately a half mile north, the Schultz parcel was reszoned in 2023 from R2 to GB. Approximately a half a mile south, annex into the town of Nashville and carrying business district 1 zoning. The Brown County Highway Department and solid waste and recycling center are located. Also in the town of Nashville limits zone business district 3 B3 zoning exists the fairgrounds. 16. The Brown comprehensive plan under overall goals provides to consider the impact of changing land use on adjoining land owners. 17. Supporting policy states that commercial development should have minimal impact on adjoining property, neighbors or public roads. 18. under elements that guide the plan. The desire to discourage economic decline and foster economic development are two sides of the same coin and both are important elements in guiding a comprehensive plan for Brown County. Of the two, the desire to discourage economic decline is the more important for without it there will be too few residents to preserve anything. In this regard, existing economic activities such as farming, logging, arts and crafts of all sorts, tourist oriented businesses, home maintenance business, etc. should be protected, encouraged, and accommodated as long as they remain compatible with the desire to preserve. For the same

reason, the ability of residents to commute easily to jobs in neighboring counties and to operate mail-based, telephone based, and internet-based businesses in Brown County should be protected and where possible enhanced. Almost done. IC36-7-4-603 describes the criteria to be used for review of zoning requests by the plan commission and the legislative body. Both shall pay reasonable regard to A the comprehensive plan. B the current conditions and character of current current structures and uses in the same district. C the most desirable use for which the land in each district is adapted. D the conservation of property values throughout the jurisdiction and E responsible development and growth. Summary. After a public hearing, the area plan commission is tasked with providing a recommendation to the Brown County Board of Commissioners. The recommendation may be positive, negative, or the desired no recommendation at all. After a recommendation by the plan commission is certified to the legislative body, the board of commissioners, they will then either adopt the zoning request in ordinance form or deny the reasonzoning request during a public meeting. Okay.

Did you want the certification next? Please finish this up. I wasn't expecting to read all this.

Okay. This is to the Brown County Board of Commissioners certification. I, Kayla Robertson, hereby certify that the during a meeting on February 24th, 2026, Brown County Area Planning Commission, considered a petition to reszone 2.262 acres of property owned by Jesse Clark for primary residential R1 to general business GB. The property's location is 1335 Greasy Creek Road, Nashville in Washington Township, a description of which is attached tier two. Recommendation voted 4 to one with two members absent to send a negative recommendation to the Brown County Board of Commissioners. This information is being forwarded for your consideration pursuant to IC 36-7-4-605A and then of course I signed that and then the date of certification was February 27th of 2026.

Okay. Thank you, K. Questions from here for the audience. Kale sent is there is there any other way he could approach this? I do not believe so. So I've been in contact with an attorney that's representing him. Uh we just made contact I believe on Friday of this past week. Um I don't believe that there is an avenue through special exception if someone knows of one.

He couldn't he couldn't ask for variance just to do his while he's there. So we cannot we're an area board of zoning appeals and an area plan commission which means we can't use variances are not allowed to be granted by us period. So we can't do a use variance isn't a thing that exists for Brown County or the town of Nashville as of now. So it would be by special exception if there were a way to go about that. I'm not of the opinion that that's possible because of the size of the business and because of what our special exceptions allow, but they could apply to the BCA. Yeah.

If they they would just have to tell me what they're applying for. They're looking for a special exception for an R1 for residential area, right? But it's got to be more it's got to be more specific than that. So for them for them to approve it, something like that. Yes. Yeah. So they can't apply for a home occupation. They don't live there. Um there are a couple other things that that they're taken out of just because of the characteristics or because of the zoning of the property. Okay. So it's either general business or I leave it alone, right? And for the audience, Kayla sends us all the reports. So all the presentations that were made at at your meeting, you might want to turn your mic on.

Yeah. All the presentations that were made at the APC meeting, we've got copies of We've got copies of the letters from people. We got copies of petition. Um I've got a also Democrat did a pretty good job of summarizing the meeting, you know, in in the article in in the paper. Um in addition to that, um it streamed. Um I know Kevin and I, we both watched what was it about 2 and a half hours. You guys covered it extremely thoroughly. I I think any issue or question people may have had, I think it was addressed, you know, by within your within your meeting. So that was kind of the context. Um so thank you, Kayla. Any any questions?

So, can I confirm on number 18 in your report is that from the 20 that's currently being pulled from the 2011 comp plan, correct? Yes. Okay. Mhm. That's the current comp plan that we're operating under. Okay. So, that's all we can use. Well, Kaitlin, then also in the in the presentations, it was brought up by several that that property has been used for commercial purposes in the past, but I think you reinforce that it was used illegally as a commercial property in the past,

especially since so I'm going on four years in the director position. So, in my four years there, we have sent out violation letters to there was only one other person that owned the property in my time there. Okay. So, prior to that, I don't know what happened on the property because I wasn't intimately involved with the violation process. Okay. So, technically now they're working it as a commercial business. They're in violation of the zoning. Yes. Correct. Okay. All right. Any other questions? Not this time.

All right. Let me explain how the process going to work. Um, I'm going to open it up for public comment. We'll start with the petitioners. uh give you 15 minutes for your presentation. I just reinforce we're familiar with with the issues, watch the videos, read the materials, so you kind of summarize a lot of the stuff. Um but give you 15 minutes, other people in favor of it, they can follow you, all proponents, then we'll start with the folks in opposition and then we'll close off public comments, bring it up to the board. Make sense? If you can leave it to like the opening presentations, maybe 15 minutes. Uh if you've got four and against or whatever, you can limit about 3 minutes. If somebody else said the same thing, somebody else said, you know, you might want to just kind of summarize that. Appreciate it. Okay, petitioners. I'm a little nervous. I don't do a lot of public speaking. Is my mic on?

Yeah.

Good evening, commissioners. My name is Jesse Clark and I'm the owner of Clark Electrical Services. Thank you for taking the time to hear my request tonight. I want to start out by saying that I respect the process it takes to approach matters like these. I respect the process and approach that you will take as the commissioners and I respect the process that the area plan commission took. During the APC meeting, members of the public expressed that their concern was not necessarily with our company itself or the location, but with the broader classification of general business zoning and what that might allow in the future. While ultimately sending a negative review, the area plan commission members also expressed that they would like to find a solution that works, something that would not require broad zoning to general business. They also acknowledge that the current zoning structure does not clearly outline what that pathway might be. We appreciate that discussion and our goal tonight is not simply to ask for zoning, but to work toward a reasonable solution that allows a responsible local business to operate while still respecting the character of the surrounding area. Clark Electrical Services is not a retail storefront. It is not a manufacturing operation and it is not for hightra commercial use. We are a service-based company. Our employees arrive in the morning, get into service vans, and leave to perform electrical work throughout the county. At the end of the day, they return, park the vans, and go home. We work uh the work we perform happens out in the community in homes, farms, and businesses, not at the property itself. We are a real and established local business. Clark Electrical Services employs nine people, six full-time employees and three part-time employees, and seven of the employees left right here in Brown

County. The jobs we support at CES provide families with livable wage jobs. Last year, our current payroll was approximately 340,000 with three full-time journeymen, two apprentices, and one part-time administrator. This year, with our current level of employment, our payroll will reach 450,000 or more. That money goes directly back into this community through housing, groceries, fuel, taxes, and supporting local families. Last year, our gross revenue was approximately 1.2 million. Within the next 3 years, we expected the company to grow to approximately 5 million in gross revenue. And uh based on our current business model, that level of growth would support roughly 1.2 million annually in payroll, all going directly back into this community through local jobs and local families. Importantly, that level of growth can occur without expanding the buildings on this property and without creating additional noise or traffic impacts on the neighborhood. In other words, the economic growth of our company happens through the work our crews perform out in the community, not through expanding operations on the site. Over the last two years, we have also contributed more than $30,000 to charitable efforts and community causes. Supporting this community has always been important to us. This slide shows a few of the places where we give. I've raised my family here in Brown County and I've been involved in the community most of my life. While I grew up in Bartholomew County, I chose to move here to Brown County to raise my kids and start my business. This community means a lot to me and to my family. This is home.

Now, I'd like to talk about the property itself. This building has never had residential living use. The plot of land has always been used for businesses and has never been used for residential housing from the time it was built. When I purchased this property in November 2025, I knew it was owned residential and I also knew that it had a historically been used for businesses for decades going back over 40 years. That history is one of the reason I believe this site is uh location is an appropriate place for our service company. We moved into the property in mid December and immediately began clearing up the site and approving the property shortly after we began the zoning process in February of uh 20256 uh so that we could move forward uh properly within the county's process. I was aware that there had been a complaint about the previous business that operated there. Uh at the time of the purchase of the property, nobody had gave me an official violation notice and nor one was given to my realtor to disclose. The only information I was aware of was that someone had complained. We have uh uh when uh when I was picking up uh an electrical permit uh for a job we were working at, I spoke with the building department about purchasing the property. The building department did inform me that there had been a complaint about the previous business that operated there. I asked uh if there was other complaints uh before that business and I was told not that they were aware of. Uh they also said that I would need to go through the zoning process and and that's exactly what we are doing. Uh we we do not view this as a bad thing. Coming into compliance is always a good thing and that's why we're here tonight.

After purchasing the property, we invested significant time and resources into improving it. Between the purchase of the property and the improvements we have made cleaning up the site and beginning to restore the buildings, we have now roughly a quarter of a million dollars invested in the property. Our intent from the beginning has been to improve the property and operate responsibly while going through the proper zoning process. While I have been doing electrical work since 1997, Clark Electrical Services officially started in 2018 and since then we have grown responsibly while serving the residents and businesses of this county. It's also important to recognize the broader reality in Brown County. Across this county, many service-based businesses operate from residential properties, electricians, plumbers, HVAC contractors, carpenters, construction companies, excavation companies, mechanics, daycare providers, trash services, sawmills, and many others operate their from their homes or rural properties. This happens not because people are trying to avoid the rules, but because there are very limited places in the county where small services businesses can uh realistically operate. The county depends on these businesses. Electricians, plumbers, carpenters, HVAC, these trades keep homes functioning, businesses operating, and infrastructure working. We are part of the backbone of the local economy. We have a great working relationship with these businesses. From the excavators to other electrical contractors working throughout the county, we all talk. We have good rapport with one another. And we support each other in serving the people of this county. Commissioners, the work our company does doesn't just support employees. It

supports the homes, farms, and businesses that keep Brown County running. The current Brown County comprehensive plan and the version currently being readopted both speak clearly about preserving the character and strength of the community. As the plan states, uh, the planning should identify and encourage those land uses that have been positive over time, especially those that contribute to the distinctive character of the special place we call Brown County. The plan also speaks to support home maintenance-based businesses that serve residents of the county. These home m maintenance-based businesses are businesses such as electrical and HVAC and carpentry. Our company is exactly that type of service business uh that that fit the plan. We support the homes of this county. I'd also like to take a moment to address the neighbors who live along the road and the surrounding area. My immediate neighbors, the couple directly next door affected most by our presence, have been supportive of us operating here and have expressed their appreciation for the improvements that we have made to the property. They have said to me that they would like our business to remain here. They have also expressed that they do not want the property broadly zone general business and decided to sign the petition for that reason. At the same time, I understand some neighbors on the road have signed a petition expressing similar concerns about the broad uh zoning of general business since the APC meeting and from conversations I've had with some neighbors. Um uh again that uh that not necessarily uh opposed to my company or or or even operating there. They're just concerned more about the general business zoning and what it could mean for the area in the future. We respect those concerns.

That is why we are willing to accept reasonable conditions and commitments that would limit the use of the property specifically to a low impact service business like ours. Those conditions can include no retail storefront activity, no building signs, no manufacturing operations, no outside material storage, primary daytime operating hours with the exception of emergency calls, and maintaining the property in a clean, orderly condition with landscaping improvements. These conditions can be tied directly to the deed of the property so that use remains limited and predictable over time. We are also willing to keep property uh we are also willing to keep property as own residential with the acceptance of our business to operate that can be terminated immediately uh based upon us ever selling or moving. Uh our attorney Brent Pierce will speak more about those details. Uh commissioners, our goal is simple. We want to continue operating our business right here in Brown County at our current location. We want to continue employing local people, supporting local families, and providing essential service to homes and businesses throughout this county. We have looked for suitable places to operate our business, and this property has been the most practical option within what is realistically available in Brown County. There simply aren't many practical locations that allow businesses like ours to operate uh in a county. Um, and based on how our business operates in our daily activity at this property, uh, it's already consistent with the character of this area. We find ourselves, if we find ourselves relocating out of the county, the jobs and the payroll, tax revenue, and econom economic activity that our company generates will leave Brown County as well. Commissioners, I'm not asking for special uh, treatment

tonight. I'm asking for a reasonable path that allows a responsible local business to operate while still protecting the neighborhood and the character of Brown County. We're simply asking you to help us uh find a practical pathway to make this work within the county's vision, whether through business approval tonight with conditions, through residential approval with exception, or with your decision to table the discussion for now so we can approach the BZA. We are asking tonight uh for this opportunity to continue serving Brown County from our current location and from the community that we have always called home. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Excuse me. Thank you, sir. Any questions or I I have some questions for Kayla with regards to some of the things that Mr. Clark brought up. So Caleb come back up for mic.

So Ron asked a question earlier on about and you basically mentioned we don't allow user variances, right? Because of the way that they're structured with regards to the area planning commission. Um, so and again I don't know if this is a question to me is I know that we have there's a junkyard operating north on 135 in Fruitdale and I believe if I'm not mistaken that particular junkyard is operating he's operating as a general business because it's been zoned that way if I recall correctly. That's a special exception. It is a special exception and that was approved owned it. the special exception was generated based on a covenant that was entered into the deed. Correct?

I don't I don't believe so. I think that's I think that a special exception is allowed for that type of use in that zoning district. In that zoning district. Yeah. And what was the zoning? Actually, I can tell you. Yes, please. Well, I can tell you how I would handle it now. I don't know how it was actually handled. Okay. So, this was pre this was pre pre-ordinance that we have effective today. I I don't know that that's the case. Okay. This is this is definitely preme though. Okay.

Yeah. So it looks like here a junkyard is if I can read allowed in FR with a special exception in GB with no special exception necessary and in industrial with no special exception necessary. Okay, say that again. It's allowed in a junkyard. Okay. Is allowed in FR which is forest reserve. Okay.

With a special exception, allowed in general business and allowed in industrial and those are all so it's a special exception across all those zonings. No, just first. Just the first just FR. Okay. Mhm. Do you happen to know what the zoning is on that? No, but I can go look. Would you mind doing that? Um, as far as that salvage yard goes, I actually run that salvage yard back in like 1990,9. And that salvage yard had been there since back in the early 60s. Wow. That long. And it had been zon I would have had the thought that it was there before zoning was ever created in this county.

Okay. Was zoning created in this county like 1968 or what? 64, I believe. 64. They were they were there and it was actually the Slater's father, okay, that run that for years. I live kind of just behind there actually and I mean I've been in there before and actually when I was trustee I looked at the paperwork and everything and it had been zoned for salvage from what I remember. Okay. Um and I can go check that zoning and I can check the year of the special exception. Yeah. So that's operated for what you see that was 90 60 what is that like 60some years.

Yeah I think I recall seeing an icon on the map from early early 80s or early 90s that I can verify that when I was there we did clean it up up front and had a fence. We're working on that again. And uh that's a condition of their special exception. And then the uh zoning office was calling thanking us for cleaning it up, making it look nice. Maybe you should go help them. Kevin, you're you're in tech for this particular

I'm just again, you know, I hear Mr. Clark expression of wanting to find options to move forward. Again, we're going up here. So, uh, how about I hold my comments and let her do that and she can come back and then we can discuss it when it comes back to the board. That's where I would make that. I'm just asking those questions and and trying to Any other properties you want me to look up while I'm in there? No. Again, it's it's it's it's a tough enough decision. Okay. Kayla, I have a question. When it comes to these reasonable conditions, you guys discussed that during your meeting.

Yes. have different conditions for the general business and and your findings or conclusion was so um from from how I understand it and I believe your guys' attorneys on the line also but that those that the petitioner can request those conditions or commitments. I think I've heard them be called commitments. Um they can put those on their own deed. So that's not something that that the APC makes up. That's not something that you guys make up. That's something that he as the petitioner can offer and then he would actually write those up. If it were approved, it would go along with the ordinance and then it would also go with the deed of that property. Okay.

What would be the timing on that? Would that he present that to the APC for your consideration? He present that to us for the first time. Yep. Because these are his offerings. Okay. But those offerings weren't specific. They're you're just specifically making those now, not not to the APC. So, it's a new thing for us. Sure. Are you aware that that we've ever we've ever passed a change of zoning ordinance to general business with conditions like that? Yes, we have. Yes. Do you know how many? The most recent one I can think of was the Schultz property on Greasy Creek. They had they had their own conditions.

Okay. I think Mr. for an observation. I was on the planning commission 20 years ago and make your That's all I had. Any other questions for Kale for Go look at that if he wants to real quick. I believe the uh was it the guy that was in violation there by working on cars? Was he not also the same one that owns the salvage yard up there? That's correct. Okay, I'll go look that up. Thanks. Thank you. Okay. Next. Yeah. You want to say something? Well, just just come up the podium, state your name, and Doug Pow. Come on, please. Up here. I was on the planning and zoning board 20 years.

Yeah, they can't hear you. Nope. Sorry. Got the mic. Anyway, 18, 19, 20 years ago. I was on planning and zoning board. Dennis Cobble. Doug Cobble. The property, the old Napa building up on old 46 was going to try to get it general business zoning. And there's a lot of concern in the neighborhood. We asked the owner to come back. It was Lisa Panzer. She was a veterinarian to come back with some restrictive covenants that she'd be willing to put on the deed. And that's what she did. They came back and and and had all sorts of things that could not be utilized at that property, but it could be utilized for the light business that's going on there at this point in time. So, there is a historic precedence to do something like this. That's all I want to know. Okay.

Thank you. I remember when it used to be the uh auto part store. Do you have that the old Napa building? Sure. There was there was a little bit of EPA issue because of some of the battery acid. Anyway, it worked out very well. She did a nice job with the building. Fits the neighborhood. Thanks. Okay. Yeah. Other proponents.

Commissioners. Uh my name is Brent Pierce. I'm an attorney. I represent uh Jesse Clark. Jesse covered most everything in this presentation, but I I did want to reiterate that if part of our request tonight uh would be to table this and maybe pursue an alternative through the BZA. Um, that being said, I I and maybe you would heard a different way just now. Uh, amending the deed uh and and you all would I don't know if that'll be tonight if if we could, you know, take this up. I don't think tonight,

but if there's a way to amend the deed and come back before this commission, I would also, I guess, want to tables to allow time for that. Um, but if if if we can do that via the deed, that's great. But my concern, I heard a couple of questions up here, um, was that if if somebody like Jesse, if his only way is general business reasoning and not a variance and, uh, not a special exception like the director said, um, it seems just generally very strictly limiting to somebody like Jesse who wants to start a small business and contribute to his community. So, it kind of puts a lot of pressure on the commission, I think. Um, and I will, you know, Jesse mentioned the the very small footprint of the property and and the business operations, staging, some vans, light equipment, storage, and all of the work actually gets done off the site. Um, so it it really does have a a footprint that's not heavy industrial. Uh, it's not manufacturing. And some of the commitments that Jesse mentioned, I I did share them with um I guess I'll call him opposing council, but he represents uh somebody who's in opposition to this. um you know limiting the property to contractor office and equipment storage, prohibiting retail business, prohibiting restaurants, bars or event venues, prohibiting industrial manufacturing activity, restricting hours of operation, and even uh providing some landscape improvements to the property. So Jesse's very serious about um you know, of course doing the business, but wanting to be in line with neighborhood concerns. So I I think that demonstrates that part. Um

and I would just say Jesse mentioned the jobs that have been created. Uh and it's so it's not an exaggeration to say that people will lose their jobs if he's not allowed to operate there. Local people will lose jobs. Um he said seven of the nine folks work and live in Brown County. Uh, so I I I've I sort of looked at this through the lens of small business advocacy and the commission focusing on and emphasizing economic development. I think that's what this is. Um, now there may be a way through the BCA that we can look into. Um, and we did sort of partially request um to table if that's the prerogative of the commission. Um, you know, that said, if the commission would take it up tonight, they would keep and and support it. They would keep a local small business operating and they you would save jobs. Uh, so I I'll stop there, but I appreciate your time and consideration.

Thank you. Thank you. Can I jump back up? Yes, ma'am. Please. And I brought them zoning mapping, too. They're as old as I am. I think they may be older. Okay. So, um, that property is zoned R1 in the very front by the state road and then FR behind that. Okay.

And it had a special exception. The date on there is just 1975. It doesn't give a better, but it was a special exception for an auto sal auto auto salvage. Okay. And so I just want to make sure I heard you correctly. We have process with Mr. Schultz property on the same road a process for exceptions that allow operation. Correct. He's talking back back on Greasy Creek. Greasy Creek. Yeah. So that was turned into an article. It was reszoned with conditions. Yes. You want me to find those conditions? Deed conditions. Deed conditions. Okay. I'm not an actual variance. Correct.

Okay. But it was reszoned with GB. It was reszoned to GB from R2 in 22 or 23 couple years ago. Yeah. And he lives on the property, correct? Yes. Okay. Thank you. He actually has run a commercial electric business out there, I believe. I was trying to look into that, too. Um, Star Electric. Yeah. from 92 93 something like that. I was going to say I heard somebody say it but come on up ma'am and I I don't know if that was a special exception for a home occupation because he lived on a property also. I just know that

my name is Julie Gabriel and um Jim Schultz is my brother-in-law and he built the house on the hill in 1979 and his electrical business was I'm going to say 40 years 35 years and it was in the back where nobody could see but I worked there for eight years. So he had electrical contracting business for 35 years on Greasy Creek Road. So, thank you. You're welcome. Other supporters of the change. Okay.

Hello. My name is Branson Davis and I'm in favor of Clark Electrical Services. I am a local and I'm a veteran. I was born and raised here and I worked here for a few different contractors in this county for most of my adult life. In that time, I've never worked for a contractor that wasn't operating their business from their home or out of storage units. Even a member of Brown County's own area planning commission is currently operating their business out of their home. Since Dun's Plumbing closed, there are no more service contractors that are operating out of a property owner's business. But none of that should matter because there aren't even enough compatible buildings zone business in this county for all of us to work out of. I was Clark Electrical Services's first employee. Jesse has provided me with a job that I can see myself retiring in. I am now looking at buying my first home, which wasn't an opportunity I had when I worked with other contractors.

My wife even started working with us, turning us into even more of a work family. We actively give back to the community and we are participating in community events which has made this more than just a place to work for me. I don't necessarily look forward to starting the workday every morning, but I love my job, who I work for, and the life CES has provided for me. At the end of the day, we are wanting to keep our business in Brown County so we can help locals like myself find work and help more community members get faster, more reliable service, which is ultimately our goal, saving them money. All we're asking from you, the board, is permission to do it the right way. Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Good evening. My name is Claire Bcraft. I'm a local resident of Brown County. I've also owned my own business here in Brown County and operated it for several years. Currently work for the story in in southern Brown County and I've had the pleasure of working with Jesse Clark and his team. I have had to um hire a lot of contractors maintaining a historic property like the story in I would like to say I could speak as highly of them as I do about Mr. Clark and his team. Um professional, honest, he does what he says he's going to do. His staff is pleasant and reliable. Anything I've asked of them, it has been answered quickly and timely. and I just can't say enough about how much I appreciate them. I would hate to see a business such as his not be allowed to continue specifically growing up here, working here, also been in corporate America for 30 years of my life. I can name and I won't so many people including my husband who's a local Mason who worked out of their homes and it's not been zoned business. I just think that um we need to allow businesses like his to stay in effect especially with the low impact that he's stating he's going to provide for his neighbors. Understand the neighbors. I get that. Truly do. But you need to look at the economic development here and I'd hate to see nine good people not have a job. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Hi, I'm Jordan Davis. I'm an employee of Clark Electrical um and a lifelong resident of Brown County. In the two years that I have known Jesse, he has consistently sought out opportunities um for his community outreach. um not listed in what we showed you today. His support for the CRC um pouring back into the people who are taking the classes, supporting the programs, pulling people who have been through their electrical classes as his employees full around supporting that program, scholarships for the Brown County graduates and CRC uh students who are achieving their GED. Um offering scholarships to pour back into people. We just want to hear how they've poured into their community and the Salvation Army parade. Um, going all out with that. That was my first week being employed by Jesse. Truly, from day one of my time with him, he speaks how he can pour back in to his neighbors. He views his clients as his neighbors, not just his customers. And it's an honor to be employed by a business that runs itself as such. I urge the board to consider a way that we can continue working at this location. Um, it makes a huge impact to the people that we serve. Um, if your power goes out, which I bet we don't have a a resident in this room who power hasn't gone out in the county, it makes a big difference whether you're getting your power turned on in an hour and 45, 2 hours or 20 minutes, which we can provide being at the location that we're at. Provides us a great advantage to being able to get people what they need when they need it. Um, that's all I have to say. Thank you.

Great. Thank you.

Thank you. Hi, I'm Leani and I'm a resident of Brown County. Um, I never really heard Jesse Clark until uh in around 20 23 24 um mainstream who fixed it. Uh had an employee come and to our house and rip our electric out of our house with a bucket truck on accident. And was like, who are we going to call? And I said, "We're going to call the person who supports our girl on the basketball team. He supports the girls basketball team." And on the bottom of this roster, you'll see Clark Electric Electric from 2023. He's been there for our sports. And our girl who's sitting right back here who's here to support him as well, has supported the girls basketball team for four years. You've seen this. If you walk in the gym right now, you'll see a huge banner thanking Clark Electric for for supporting our athletes, but he just doesn't support our athletes. He supports uh if you've noticed, he offers a scholarship to our seniors. He they have to go through the same steps. They have to write an essay and they and it'll be judged just like any other scholarship. He offers a scholarship. He um I mean he's just been there for and the other day u we had an appointment with the glass slipper cuz prom's coming up and guess whose name I saw there? It was Clark Electric. He was there making sure that our girls would be able to have a prom dress, shoes, jewelry, bracelets, earrings, clutch purses, all that available for anybody. And um so but when the incident happened with uh at our home, Jesse was at our house with within an hour and that was after hours and he got us up and running so we could have electric yet that night and didn't have to worry about all of our stuff being blown. We was worried about stuff

we was going to have to replace in our house. He was there for us and he was there the next day to complete the job that we needed to have done. And we also had um work done at my mother-in-law Tabe's place. She's elderly and he just him and his team, we was safe enough. He was safe to be with him. We felt good about the whole job. They cleaned it up and made sure everything was in good working order and she was an approval of everything. So, we're very supportive of him. We're supportive of the of his taxpayer dollars that he has. He employs people. He's a growing business. That's awesome. What a great example to our young generation that you can thrive in Brown County that you can go around and have stay here and be an employee and have a business in Brown County. That is just the most awesomest thing I think ever. If you have that much pride in the county that you live in and you can give back to the community and I I thank you for your time.

Thank you. All right. My name is Anthony White and uh I've worked for Indiana Natural Gas for 38 years. I'm the superintendent there currently and uh we've had dealings with Mr. Clark Parker Electrical Services over the last three or four years with with installing generators uh working with gas meters, upsizing them. Nothing but professional. They're always worked with us. Great guys. Nothing bad to say on the on the gas company side. Uh just recently had to make repairs to my house. Uh they were there two days later, fixed my house. Great guys. I I I've come to know Jesse the last couple years and Jesse is about an upstanding man you're possibly going to meet. U uh he makes so many donations to this this county. I mean you guys you guys have heard I mean donations, scholarships. Uh if if we if we lose this guy, it's just it's just crazy. I mean, the place that we're talking about here has been a business for 38 plus years that I've been here. It rarely had a business out of it. Model concrete had a business out of it. They ran a car shop out of it. Sure. They were all doing legally. How the county is doing something legally? He's trying to do it right. We we have to give him a chance to do it right. um if he's forced to relocate out of our town, we'll be losing a reputable business and and uh was sorely needed and that's just sad. And if he is forced to leave our county and I hate to say this, but but I I I truly believe it. I hope he takes all his donations, scholarships with him to the county would accept it.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Hello. Uh, my name is Justin James. Uh, I am a first year apprentice at Clark Electrical Services. I just want to tell you that the opportunity to work with these group of guys and this beautiful group of women right here has been mind-blowingly amazing. And if you take that from all of us, there's no such thing as community. my beautiful children, my amazing soon tobe wife. They support every bit of us, hands down. Always will. I hope your community does the same. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm uh Warren Cole. Operated a business here lately. Resident of the county for 50 years. I've driven up and down that road for 50 years. And to me, it's maintained its character pretty much despite the fact that there is at one end what used to be Star Electric. later was used for Brown County Coffee and then the property in question with Jesse here like uh Claire and a couple other people. I became acquainted with Jesse because I employed him to do work in the business. Um that's how I became acquainted with him before he actually operated our business. He was working for electric uh worked at Eli at Lily before he founded his business here. I spent many thousands of dollars over time with him. Always found it highly satisfactory. I won't rehearse pretty much what Jesse said. I do think there's a couple points that are important to me, which one of which is that his business pays a minimum of $20 to part-time people hourly. Others make substantially more. He is providing living wages to a number of people. is projected to do more of the living wages, higher wages, a higher payroll over the next few years if he can stay in the county. That seems like

a a goal for the commission. I would hate to see that that he was compelled to leave the county. Um I don't know that I can really add very much to what other people have had to say. What I would like to hope is that even if we can't make this general business or whatever we need to do that there be some kind of compromise, covenants, legalisms, technicalities set up such that the property is restricted and has a low impact. In fact, what he's done already with that property is improve it. It has a lower impact visually than it did a little while ago. So, I would like us to find a way to keep him where he is. Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

I'm Penny Scrogggins. I have Bear Hardware, Bear Real Estate, and Bears Den Vacation Cabins. Um Jesse's done work for us at the real estate office when we remodeled it. You know, there is a a big problem um with with businesses here in the county trying to have a place to have their businesses legal. And maybe tonight's the night we start changing that by, you know, if we can do a deed restriction, if we can do a special exemption, at least the the contractors that live here can continue to do business here and do it legally, you know, and not have the threat of having a zoning violation at all by just trying to operate a business. you know, there there just aren't very many places where they can operate from. Um, and you've heard testimony here that they're doing it illegally. My and and I haven't read up on all the zoning laws, but you know what is different than what he's doing than a farmer does. A farmer has tractors parked outside his barn. They have supplies delivered. you know, they're they're low impact. They're still good-looking properties. Why is this any different? It's something to do with the zoning laws and the descriptions. So, maybe we need to change that so that we can thrive as a county and we can have county businesses grow here. That's all I got.

Thank you. Hello, my name is Julie Gabriel and this is what I came here to say tonight. Um, I was at the zoning meeting and I always want to know why someone would be be opposed to this. So I asked and one of one of the things someone said was the neighbors are concerned that if it gets zoned business and Jesse sells they could build a hoochie bar. And I thought that might be an exaggeration but that's a real concern. So when these legal

that's a lot of eyeball

when people can rob these conditions offered conditions tonight put them on a deed etc. There's the solution. It's like wow put conditions on this so that someone doesn't come I don't know make a pooh hall. I don't know what they could do with it as general business, but if somebody after Jesse, they could ruin this whole entire neighborhood for these people. I think it's a valid concern, but I heard a solution. Boom. Okay. Now, the zoning board also brought up they don't like they're trying to stay away from spot zoning. And I think I could chuckle at that. The reason I say that because you heard it, somebody. It's in the record. Would you say um zoning for this c county started in 1964? There have been people here long before that. So as the Brown County developed, etc. and they saw the need to zoning. They've done the best they can with the circumstances this county grew with.

Nobody's at fault. It's just what happens. And then my last thing is I went on to the Brown County Redevelopment Commission and Comprehensive Plan website. It's on there now. Their aim I don't

excuse me off their website commission. Okay. Their aim is to guide growth through 2045. quote economic diversification while honoring the county's tourism roots. The plan aims to encourage diverse economic growth, including remote work opportunities and light industries. So now I'm going to let you know I may or shouldn't say this or not, but if you start start at the north end of Greasy Creek, sorry, at Bear Wallow Split, and I'm just going to start, there's Miller's Construction. He's been in business I don't know how long, but he's older than I. Um, once again, these may or may not have some kind of zoning exceptions. I'm not aware of any of that. Uh Casey Thompson has a daycare. It's in a residence. It's not near the street. She's licensed. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I'm following down Crazy Creek Spice Refuge. I'm sure it started as a mom and pop, you know, in a in a resident's home. Possibly the trucks were around were around the back, but it's evolved through the years. It's a business and it's not exactly uh you can tell it's a business.

Okay, you can see the trash. You can see the trash containers. Once again, Star Electric. Okay, now they built the house that you see along Grazy Creek in 1999, but their business has been there for a long time. I used to direct semis because they get lost using GPS. Somebody's could come in there and actually back deliver and come out, but they couldn't tell from the street. They just couldn't tell. That's how nicely tucked away that was. But Star Electric built the jail. It built Hotel Indigo. You got one of the

Oh, sorry. Okay. And then I'm just going to end with that. Thank you very much for talking.

Thank you. My name is Brian Tadlock and my primary hat is within the short-term uh rental industry. I own several and uh partner with Moonans Vacation Homes which manages over 50 properties uh in Brown County. And Jesse has been an amazing partner for us um arriving when a guest has an emergency after hours to do things. But I think what has been really illustrated here tonight is the extreme benefit to the community. And I think looking at it from a very high level view, the county has a budget problem. It has more expenses than it does income. And any amount of people and jobs that we can keep within Brown County are crucial to helping to do that. We have one of the lowest property taxes in the entire state. and you know a general business can be such a highly soughta and help increase those tax revenues. Um the other thing I would say is that Jesse has uh put forward a um an agreement or a plan to install lights at the at the uh baseball fields up at Deerrun Park which would allow Brown County to host tournaments. So, not only is it such a great community impact, but it's such a great uh plan for the tourist industry as well to help bring more overnight rentals to help continue to elevate the inkeepers tax and hopefully use that to continue to give back to our residents quality of life um along with our tourists as well. That's all I

Thank you. Uh, my name is Demetri Anderson. I actually work for Clark Electric. Um, I'm not going to say too much about Jesse because he's going to get a big head, all these people talking good about him. Um, but I will say that my 43 years here on this planet, I've always had to live u with a measure of compromise. Uh and as we all grow into adulthood, we know that compromise is one of the things that uh keeps our society together. Uh we you you can't have it all. So there I'm hearing some good ideas about a way that we can proceed with this. And for the uh our opposition, I fully get why they are opposed to it. And that being said is may not opposed to our business itself, but what could happen afterwards. So, uh, with this compromise, we can figure out a way. I'm pretty sure we have some confident people here on the commission. We can figure out a way to get this done. That's all I say about that.

Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Denise Hancock. I've only lived in the county for three years, but my family has been Brown Countyians for 1900s. Uh they have property over in Valley Branch. I have a huge garage that I rented half of it to Jesse last year because he didn't have any place to store his stuff or park his vans as he grew his business. Um I first found him on Facebook. He came and did some work for me and then he came back and did some more work for me and then when he outgrew the space that he was using for his stuff, he asked if I'd be willing to rent out that garage and I did that until he bought this property. He is very respectful. He gives back to the community. He I mean he's just a great guy and I can understand their concern about the the business zoning but I was at the zoning meeting too and the zoning commission said that regardless of their recommendation to you you guys can do what you feel is best and if we can come up with a solution that makes that work I think that's the best thing to do because if you don't do that for him are you going to go back to the people that's running the businesses illegally at their home and their residential property and find them because as everybody said there's lots of them out there. So I just hope we can come to an agreement that allows them to continue there. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Any more? Yeah. I found the commitments for the Schulz reszone that we were talking about and those were committed um prior to the plan commission meeting. So you may talk to your attorney. I don't know if they can be introduced now, but these are the ones from the Clark. I'm sorry, from Schultz. Those are presented at the APC for consideration. Y these up here.

Thank you. Hello. Uh, my name is Tom Pace. Um, I've lived here about 20 years on the outskirts. Had a house in Nineveh. Worked for uh different contractors. Always knew known Jesse for about 20 years also. Um, we're not just a maintenance service. We're vital and we provide utility and uh power uh that's necessary uh the power outages. Um, you know, I believe he's making a positive impact and he's helped me greatly in the class. Uh, we excuse me, we all have a lot of skills. Um, you know, we all have a lot of, uh, you know, positive things to bring into this community. Um, whether it be the kids we raise, uh, the work we perform. Um, we want to do what's right here and, uh, do good things and do the next right thing. So, I appreciate your time and I appreciate that support.

Thank you. Thank you. Any others in Okay.

Hi, my name is Sarah Cooper. I work for Clark Electrical Services. I enjoy working I enjoy working locally and close to where I live in Brown County. I'm one of the voices you hear when you call Clark Electrical Services. I work part-time in the office with Danielle. I feel that we make a difference here and I would like to be given the chance to continue to do just that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Danielle Norcut. I've lived in the county for 22 years. I work for Clark Electrical doing business admin, um, payroll, billing, and I love that I'm working for such a great company and one I can believe in. and I would like to continue doing that um living and working in the same county. Thank you. Thank you. Others in in favor.

Okay. We'll hear for those in opposition and I'd be curious on comments if you could address any kind of conditions that they could possibly put on that that property that would satisfy you. So curious. Thank you. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Clark. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Dan Seir. I'm an attorney with Taganelli Law Group. I represent Debbie Rogers. She's another longtime Brown County resident at 1189 Greasy Creek Road. And I'm here tonight as a representative to oppose the reszoning of 1335 Greasy Creek Road from R1 Residential to general business. This case is simple. A man bought a residential property. He was told it was residential. He was told the zoning violation already existed and he bought it anyway. He started a commercial business there immediately and is now asking this board to make that okay. So, we're concerned about the message that that sends when someone is buying something with the violation. They know it. It's no surprise. That's not how it works. And the area commission already said so. Um, comment here. I want to respond to you, Mr. Clark, about the conditions. there's no um there's no way to enforce those conditions and that's why attorney Mr. Schilling I believe provided some comments. He didn't say one way or the other but you shouldn't put in conditions that you don't have staff to enforce. I think I mean you how many people you have to hire to enforce all of the conditions one lot at a time when when someone comes up. Um what I didn't hear tonight is that he could go somewhere else. I mean, I think they want you to think that there's literally no other real estate in Brown County and that they're all going to lose their jobs. And I don't think that you believe that, but I'm going to go. Uh, the APC voted 4 to one to recommend disapproval. Um, they held a full public hearing that

was 2 to 2 and 1/2 hours. Um, because the discussions after, I think it was past 3. Um the petitioner presented his supporters, employees, customers, and many neighbors testified in opposition. And just to comment on the neighbors, there is a how many nights are we going to have them come to to voice their opinions? And so we hope to have this done tonight if for no other reason, but the nice folks honestly on both sides are going to have to spend how many evenings here to voice the same concerns. we think a decision could be made to unite. And so at the end of all that, the area plan commission, they recommended disapproval. One member abstained and um two were absent. Something about their appointment lapsed. Um they'll be that was the commission's decision. So, and there's been hope, I mean hope that something might work out, but not under the current zoning ordinance. there's no path for any reasonable conditions or special exceptions. Those are coded in your ordinance for categories where those things can occur and we've heard from the director and and I think that there was more agreement at the area plan commission meeting that there was no other path through the current zoning ordinances and you're the legislative body here of course in that way and you can enact new ordinances but um not through spot zoning most of the time you don't want to approve that on a parcel by parcel basis. you want to have a comp plan and and ordinances um and not decide not try to decide these things. I mean, heck, we'd all be coming in with a new idea for our property effectively if if we just have to come here and spend an evening and we could change our property around and that's probably not the way that you want to conduct your business. Um we don't need to argue

about the character of Grecy Creek Road. We refer back to the staff report. Item 14 settles it that every parcel fronting the road, as far as I can tell, is zoned R1 or flood plan. Um, item four settles something else for you to see. In the staff report, when it was listed for sale, the realtor and every potential buyer was told it was done residential and that a violation existed. We think that Mr. Clark was actually more transparent at the area plan commission meeting. He was more both right that he knew there were violations. So I he kind of backed off of that a little bit. So I noticed that um he bought it, started operating, waited to see what would happen. So the three problems, excuse me on time, I'll move along. This is spot zoning. This is the definition. It's surrounded by residential. Um he's asking for a carveout. And the current comp plan calls for protecting uh which I which you approved. The board approved existing residential areas from encroachment by incompatible uses and this is definitely an encroachment. Second, general business means more than Clark electrical. The staff report is clear on that. Um the GPA designation opens this to all kinds of businesses and services. Light industrial uses and other commercial activity with and without a special exception. So you wouldn't just be approving a contract electrical contractor, Mr. Clark. um you would be permanently reszoning a residential parcel and you would not have control over that. Um and so the impact is not actually as minimal as it would have sounded. Um there's marked commercial trucks, eight of eight plus employees, now it's nine. Daily traffic around the clock emergency availability, no limit to that. Um and he had a commercial driveway permit before this this board approved a change. Um so we would ask you to follow that plan. um that's why we have an area plan commission um to take so we we we

feel you would take their recommendation um with some seriousness um and and deny that they're reszoning this we would ask you to make that decision tonight. Thank you. Your microphone has a major static problem as you notice. But I'm Dem Rogers. I grew up here with parents that ran businesses for 60some years, employed three quarters of the county throughout the years they ran the businesses. Um, we just went through the APC meeting. We are hearing the same people com make the support for Clark's business that we heard at that meeting. And so, um, it's it takes up a lot of our time. Um, I am not going to consider special exception and a GP on top of a special exception. I'm not negotiating. I heard Mr. Clark say in the APC meeting that he had thought about building a couple houses on that property. that property got is a a a small subdivision. I've never once heard that Ron Bishop owns a home and 2.262 acres also on that in that small subdivision.

We haven't um you know I'm I'm not changing my position. I'm totally against the general business zoning on Greasy Creek Road. It's all residential from 135 to the highway garage to Old 46. There is one exception and that is Schultz's property. So, in in 2023, Schultz asked for a um an art farm that he would do in on his property that he lives on. Um he then at some point got a general business that I didn't know about. He was far enough up the road at the time I wasn't real considered he was or real concerned he was just going to have an art form. But I what I didn't know is he had a general business at some point. It opens up Greasy Creek Road for the last three years. There are lots of businesses. Um I know someone brought up the um spicers. Spicers from what I understand from my neighbor Brandon Harris. Brandon's done a lot of investigation on that property and on Greasy Creek Road. Businesses that are um old businesses that got grandfathered. I'm sure Spicer was grandfathered. But you'd be interested to know that Brandon says that Spicer started as a business I don't know in the 20s maybe delivering groceries.

So can we wrap up? We're getting close to time. Yeah, I I've experienced this in two meetings already. I'm very aware of the timing.

Okay. But we haven't had our turn. So there only two of us that have spoken so far. Um but um I thought there was going to be someone that was going to do a Zoom. I know some people sent letters and you have received those. Um but um as far as negotiating, you know, like I said, Mr. Clark said he had thought about building a couple houses. He had mentioned to a neighbor he might have a storefront. At the end of that meeting, he asked me would I'd be willing to negotiate. And at that point, I said no. And then 9 days later, I heard he got a lawyer. Um, and again, we've been asked to negotiate again and I've said no. I'm totally against. We've got more traffic, more noise in the last three years. We've got someone working on semis on that road. Um, so there's been a lot of traffic for semis on that road. We've got delivery trucks. We've got the highway garage trucks. We've got uh numerous The traffic is really horrible on that road. I mean the speeds aren't monitored but the main thing is this property wasn't nobody was overseeing it or enforcing the rules for the last three years. Two of us were making complaints. Brandon Harris made a complaint in January of 2025. He signed our names as neighbors to

that. And again, he made a complaint in December of 2025 because he he recognized there were car parts being sold from the man that owns the junkyard and fruit down. We Yeah, that that's that's been told in the meetings. Can Can you summarize it, please? Yeah. So um you know one of the main issues is even as a general business there is not people in the departments to enforce the the rules. I mean that's that's a major problem in the whole county about this and you you're here.

Thank you. All right. Thank you.

Hello. Hello, I'm Debbie Ferry and we are here tonight about land use spot zoning in a residential neighborhood. Our family, my parents, my brothers, and myself,

have a combined 50 acres north of Mr. Clark's property. We have lived in this Breezy Creek neighborhood for over 60 years. We have raised our children in this neighborhood. My brothers and I are fifth generation Brownians. We live and work in LA County. We have deep roots here. These types of businesses are allowed in general business property with no further approval. Light industry, a clinic, farm equipment sales and service, hotel, kennel, retail and hotel businesses, livestock, sail barn, veterinary hospital, warehouse, bowling alley, nightclub, tavern, indoor theater, gas station, grocery store, restaurant. We've heard tonight many people here would not want these types of businesses on the property adjoining their property. Why is our residential neighborhood in jeopardy because a business owner purchased property knowing it was not zoned for his intended purposes? We are strongly opposed to this requested resoning and we ask that you deny this. We do not have a problem with Mr. Clark or his business is the general business and what can happen. We plan on having our property for many more generations. What can happen when he retires? When he sells the property, this is not what we need in our residential neighborhood. Thank you. So ma'am before you step away so in essence what you're saying is like the question that Tim asked earlier is you're favorable of his business and his business operating there but your concern is how do you address the future

utilization of that property correct and so in that APZ meeting yeah the attorneys are talking about conditions but that you really all it takes is an attorney and in the future to fight those and they would be null and void. That's Do you kind of see what I'm saying? Yeah, I understand. I just wanted to clarify can address that if it's on a deed. Canon cannot be changed. Yes, we're against the general business zone. Thank you. Specifically, thank you cler. Okay. Thank you for clarifying.

Thank you. I am Kenny Hammond and I walked around and got the pet petition signed from everybody, most of the people on Grizzy Creek. That's about all I could get done in 3 hours between getting off work and before it got dark. Uh, most everybody is opposed to it being reszone general business. Nothing against Mr. Clark. I think he's a great guy. I don't think anybody's going to lose their job because he can't conduct his business in Indian or in Brown County. There's other places in Brown County. People go travel out of county all the time to work and I just do not want it general business. That's it. I'm Scott Hammond and again I'm opposed to the general business zoning. Um as my sister and same about what it leads to in the future. you know the like she said the conditions if you can't make them legally stick then it makes it all null and void um and I grew up on creek lived there my whole life my parents we paid taxes here in this county our whole lives and if he gets this some general business then it make his property worth more than our property

could devalue our property as neighbors and I am against the general business. Thank you.

It's can you hear him again? Just want to say a couple other things. I heard people say that other people ran businesses on that property. Uh the rear ran the esavating company there. Jackard that well in the 60s I'm sure uh lived on the property. So did who ran it afterwards. Marlo was the first one to run it illegally. U Steve Miller Miller Construction as she talked about lived on the property. Jim Schultz who ran a business lived on the property. Jim Schultz got his property's own general business for the art farm and whatever and now he's renting them out to people, not artist, not all artist. That's all I want to say. Thanks.

Thank you. Anyone else wants to speak in opposition? Okay, we'll close it off for public comments. Bring it up to the board if you hold back on your comments. I mean, that kind of cuts off the public input at this particular point. We'll bring it up to the board for discussion. Um, Kale, you still here?

Yeah, I've got some questions. Okay. You know, on the surface, kind of simple. Um, you know, it's residential R1. Um, it's not general business. Typically, on all the meetings I've attended when it comes to zoning and even in the uh comprehensive plan, when we talk about general business zoning, uh, the target is generally along a state highway, is it not? 46 and 135 because it makes access easier.

Okay. And so it's rare. I Schultz is an exception. Um and then that's kind of unique because I know he's got I think on his art farm as I remember his presentation he was renting that out to artists I think was his intent. So it's more like a commercial rental and he still lives on the property and so has very low impact of people coming and going. It's just individual residents as I understand it the way he presented it. So, um, when we talk about this, it's a simple, and I think you base your vote on that. It was, well, it's it's R1. It's not general business. And and there's maybe you can get a special exception, but it looked like it when I looked at the matrix on what was allowed within R1, it looked like that'd be a stretch for the BCA to to to make that particular exception. Um, and then when people, and again, it gets back to the comprehensive plan. I think even the draft you guys presented still when we talked about targeting commercial businesses is along state highways and that's just been

typically with sewer capability. Yeah, that's another thing I've always heard thrown out. Another plus, but generally 46 135 and more 135 north and 135 south because that's a whole 45.

Yeah, 45 is another one. There's commercial business there along 45. So that's been an established practice. When people see a zoning and it's R1, they expect it to remain zoning R1. And when we talk about that, I mean, I'm empathetic. Great business, great model, super success. Uh, the contribution to the community, phenomenal. Um, A+. I mean, it's it's not a business thing for us. It's a zoning thing. And I guess my concern is when we talk about I guess I'm not real comfortable with the commissioners looking at these uh exceptions or conditions on a general business. That's a whole different issue. And I would rather see if you're going to do something like that to bring it up to the APC and you guys address it from a legal perspective. You got an attorney and that's what happens on the Schultz thing. That makes a little more sense. It's like I'm almost putting that at the commissioner level at this point doesn't seem appropriate to me from a process perspective because um it just it's just circumventing the process. I'd rather it be addressed by the APC and you guys address it from a, you know, from the side and then we can look at what your attorney says, what you guys said. Our attorney's got advanced to look at it and then we have more of a basis to make a decision. The other concern I have is is we're talking about it gets back to the uh the comprehensive plan. It gets back to a comp plan. It's almost like you're asking for an exception, a change within the comprehensive plan to allow different zoning that I'm open to when we have those community meetings when it comes to updates to the comprehensive plan. And that's at a point when you go out in these areas is is when you look at all these and great idea if you can live on a property and run your business and have very little impact on anybody else. Um, but that needs to be spelled out in a comprehensive plan. People need to identify what are those limits. If I'm going to have a business and live on it and and have different types of businesses, folks that live around there need to really have a say in it. What exactly would be acceptable to the neighbors and what what crosses the lawn?

Yeah. And that's a comprehensive plan change, not a zoning change. It's a comprehensive plan change. So, I have a hard time making it. A lot of that is spel Sorry to interrupt. A lot of that is spelled out very clearly in the home occupation portion of the ordinance which was redone in 2018 2019. Okay. The Could you explain that home occupation? What's the difference? If I live on a property and I have a business, I'm running a commercial business landscaping or construction or electric. What's a home business in that situation?

So, a home business there are different types. You can have one with a special exception which is um beauty shop, barber shop, things with more employees. There are more more customers, more public people coming into your office. So, a lot of our a lot of our um you know builders, other electricians that don't have multiple employees, they don't even require a home occupation because it's just a guy going home and he's got a truck and a trailer. So, it's just somebody lives there and they they have a truck and a trailer. You call that home business and he's Yeah. It doesn't need anything. Doesn't even need the $20 home occupation permit. Okay.

So, um something that would need just the permit without a special exception and I'm drawing a blank right now and I don't have my whole ordinance with me. Um, well, I know the board, for instance, when we voted on the board thing, he was in a lake district, which put him in a different category. Yes, he was in an R2. Um, so that his business in R2 would have been a no-go for that kind of thing, but he's in a lake district. And because he's in a lake district, he had different rules within the zoning ordinance that allowed that to happen.

And it and it allowed him to live on the property, uh, repair boats. It wasn't wasn't that big a business, but enough. I mean, he was repairing boats and then storing the boats in and out of repairs, I guess, was the point. And given his property and location, all that, zero, almost very minimal impact on his neighbors. Um, and and that seemed to work, that particular zoning thing. So, when we're looking at stuff like that, that happened that worked for him because he's in a lake district nearby a lake. Yeah. Nearby a lake residential district. So, he had a different option. He had an AV option as opposed to a GV option. Okay. So you have you have additional options the closer you are to a lake district or something like that. Yeah.

So really it gets back our current comprehensive plan does not support this change. Correct. Okay. But under the future revisions of the comp plan we can certainly address that because they brought up great great examples of great examples and we got to look at that. We want to retain those kind of businesses. That's a good thing. Um but but it's just not supported right now in the complaint. Am I am I good act good conclusion there?

And that's what the AAPC the 4 to1 vote took those those five items A through E into consideration the comp plan the current characteristics of the property. So the APC took that into consideration before their vote too. Right. So, ideally, if we can come up with a solution on updates, changes to that comp plan, we probably do, you know, I don't know if we can do it in pieces or whatever, but I really like to take that one on is to what will people want in their area? What are those lines? What are those conditions? What are those conditions that the neighbors would accept? And yeah, and you know, everybody comes out ahead on something like this, but we don't have that now. So, okay. So, so question don't go anywhere, okay?

You're going to spend a lot of time talking. Okay. So the question I have for you with regards to enforcement, so I know that you made a point and I want to reiterate that point in this audience here is is your current organization as it's staffed is basically enforcement occurs typically at either through the a complaint process. Correct? Only through complaints. Only through complaint process. And then the other enforcement activity typically is when we're being approached with requests to take action through either a a reszone of this nature or if they're going through BCA and asking for spec special exceptions and that's to just make them and bring them within compliance. Correct. Correct.

Okay. So, and this is a hypothetical and you're going to put your hat on here. If we were to go down the path of trying to again and I and I heard a comment here saying, "Well, if we're not going to enforce it on all businesses, what would that staffing look like if that were if we were down that path?" And again, I know there is not a strong I know there is a strong want not to go down that path, right?

I mean, you would need you would need probably one at least one other person. We're pretty bare bones as it is right now, okay? But you'd need at least one other person depending on how many of these you approved with those conditions that would or the commitments, I'm sorry. Um, that would keep somebody pretty busy if if we were to keep going like that. And I I don't like the idea of that. I I like the idea that this community is one that tries to work things through itself, right, and work itself out. Um, but I also understand that we have a very independent-minded residency of approach with utilization of their of their land, right?

So, um, matter of fact, my father's one of those. So,

I get I get the challenges, right? So, it's a very difficult decision for me. So, um, I if Jesse, would you mind stepping back up to the microphone, please? Don't go anywhere, Kayla, because I just remember something else. But I want to ask this question while I have time. So again and again, it's it's been made the statement here is that that's you know that that this is going to completely destroy your business if you don't go through the exercise of getting a a zoning to general business. Meaning I I hope that's not the case. Is that is that a is that a deep consideration and challenge on that? Uh the the reality is that no, it's not going to destroy my business. U I'm going to keep uh uh running an electrical company, whether it's in uh Bartholomew County or or Monroe County. We serve both. U you know, I I've I've looked uh in in this county for places to operate. I've knocked on doors. Um, you know, it came down to asking a customer to to rent a place for for a while. Uh, as we crew, um, uh, knowing the history of the of the place, like again, uh, this this site has never had a house on it. It's always been used as businesses. Uh I I knew there was a complaint, like I said. Um uh and and I knew that cleaning it up would go a long way. Uh I haven't never had complaints before uh when when Aaron's own it and uh when Models owned it. Or maybe they have. I I I don't know. U but uh you know, I feel like this is a a topic that uh needs needs to be addressed. uh as far as uh uh you know people that want to operate a

business here legally and and and responsibly and uh provide an infrastructure to the community. Again, a comprehensive plan that does state, you know, we should, you know, really encourage and and make room for home maintenance based businesses. Uh and that's what we are. Uh so so uh uh the reality is you know I've looked along 46 and 135. Greasy Creek is a is a main corridor that connects 135 ambulances use it. The county highway uses it. Double yellow line road. Um uh and and the countyy's growing. Um we're here to provide service to the businesses and the houses and uh uh um uh again uh even if it stays residential um um you know if we can run our business uh with an exception that terminates if we ever do so I'm a okay with that. You know, I I respect the privacy and we all move out to Brown County to to my normal businesses and then have have our have our uh piece of heaven on earth, you know. Uh I get it, you know. Uh we're not invasive to the community or or or our neighbors. Um we do good work and uh this is like again uh this uh this uh site's never had a house on it and it's always been used of business if to the point that was being spoke earlier. uh if uh you know saying I was going to put houses on a property uh that's not true. Uh I'm able to uh given

the zoning as residential and and approval of a present system. Uh if it means that I need to put a house on there and live there, I'll move I'll move a mile away and and live at the property if I can get a residential exception. Uh I live in Anadale neighborhood right now. Uh I was out on a land and ridge before before my divorce uh six years ago. Uh but uh uh again I said starting a business is uh as a decision I made uh was my maker almost had a heart attack uh driving driving an hour every day and and doing more work for other people and businesses and industries and and uh I said you know I'm going to I'm going to operate here and home closer to home and start doing the things that matter to and uh and all the doors have opened uh so far in this venture and I'd hate to see this one close. This Brown County is important to me and uh doesn't mean we won't service Brown County if we move to Bartholomew County, but I'd sure hate to to move there where the where the business zoning laws are more clear and and uh available.

Thank you. No, I haven't completely forgot what I was last follow. So, I'll ask you a completely different question. So, one of the other issues that I identified when I went through the exercise of reviewing is part of your review which you mentioned I think and I don't remember who mentioned it was that there was a commercial driveway that issued from the highway department in December on that. Um, so the question I had before December was it? I think it was June. I can look back through my packet. Now you I'll look if you want to carry on.

Well, that's my question to you and this just just process question that's not necessary germaine to the decision on that part is is there any tie off with the highway department when making sure that we're giving proper driveways as far as based on zoning. So he he was asked by the by the zoning regulations to apply for that and be granted that as part of his Okay. All right. I was trying to understand why we would issue a commercial driveway pit permit for something that was residential. So that's required by us. That was required by you. Okay. All right. Thank you.

I just want to reinforce on the economic development. Um I started looking at our economic numbers now starting back in 2016. And when you think of Brown County, we always I think the the story is we're we're a tourism community where tourism is our economic engine. Tourism is is the economic engine for Nashville, but not for the county. We're a residential community. Um we we 77% of the wages earned in Brown County earned outside the county. And so when you look at uh total wages that tourism brings in gross wages is around 21 million. Everybody else is $510 million. And so we have over 50% of our land is in in forest or state park, national park, different things. But even though that lowers our tax base, it that's what encourages more people to live here. And so that's our economic strength is getting more residents to live here. And you have to make it and that's why you see the emphasis in the comprehensive plan as to hey what's in the best interest of of the entire county that be residents and business as well. And you look at the job numbers, you know, total jobs is around 38.40. The number of tax returns that are filed over 7,000. So, a lot of retirees, a lot of people, a lot of retirees that that that move down here to to to live there that people now we're getting that can work from home and people that want to they either live here and they work somewhere else. So, our economy is a little different. So from an economic development standpoint, the residents is is a is a a concern and and you're careful not of maintaining that balance, but at the same time, sure, we'd like to have those small business, and we do and encourage that, but at the same time, not alienate, you know, the the silent majority, the residents just want to enjoy the county and and the country and the terrain. So that's all I had on that. Any other

I'll speak here in a minute. Do you have any other thoughts on Mr. I do have one more question. I remembered what I was going to ask her. Good job. So, uh the So, if the action tonight, so again, this is my second time going through this with these types of requests. The last one was an approval. So, the question I have is what happens if there's nothing? What if there's a no vote to approve this? Is there is there an attempt to go back and reapply with you know proposals like Tim was saying through the through him and that's entirely up to them. Huh? That's entirely up to the the

are the restrictions on the timing of when that can occur. Is it you can't do it within 90 days after? And then obviously if there's a question that goes down that and that's a potential which again I don't know if that's the case or not. Sounds like, you know, maybe. So, their application here has no, let me make sure I'm understanding what you're asking. Their application here has no bearing on when or if they can present an application to the BZA, correct? No. So, let me let me clarify my question. Okay.

Okay. So, not going through the BCA. I understand that they can go into that approach and then again I in my brief understanding of it is I kind of agree. I don't believe there is an avenue possible there in just looking at what the special exception but I'm not an expert on zoning. Okay. Um and I've only read the zoning or this twice. Right. So this is number two. What I'm asking is Jesse mentioned that there were and I asked the question to Mr. Schultz and he went through the exercise of getting a special ordinance with identified can't be this, can't be this, can't do this, can't know this. Mhm.

Okay. To me, that sounds like if those kinds of things were to be considered and the APC would look at considering those, it would have to still be considered zoned GB, but with a proviso or an ordinance that would allow them allow these conditions to exist, right? Okay. So, is there an hindrance? Is there a refiling? I can't refile to go and petition again because you already went to GB or or That's a good question. I'm sure there's a time limit. There is. James, I give you a heads up. Stephanie sent me a uh an email today. She said there's like a one year. They can't refile for a year.

Yeah, that's what I saw in her email as well. Okay. A year. Okay. All right. So that and that's if we vote tonight and say no, it's a year. Well, okay. Can I ask the attorney a question? Sure. Hi, this is Kayla. Hey, James. Kayla's got a question for you. I will uh

I'll take notes. What do we got? Okay. So, my question is if the commissioners would decide to send the petition, can they send the petition back to the area plan commission or are we still in the 90 days without action equals defeat is the way I'm asking that. Does that make any sense? Basically saying that there's a petition that's been filed that started the clock and there's a response that's required within 90 days. Y if if we were to send it back to allow some discussions about modifications to what's being to the petition, does that stop the clock and restart it or does it continue on that 90-day period?

That's a good question. I don't know whether it tolls the clock because I guess if you guys reject it, that's that's an action. If you accept it, that's an action. But you're saying if you send it back, do we count that? And honestly, I'm not sure. The statute probably is not quite clear enough on that point. Uh but I can take I can keep taking a look while you guys talk. Okay. And they could they also just resend it at this point and then and then petition you guys refile with you guys.

I don't know if that could be the one year thing. I think there are like five lawyers in this group. If we vote, if we vote, it's we vote one way or the other, they got a year, as I understand, before they can reapply or re resubmit. So, Brent, you got some insight on this?

Probably not. Um, but if this if if the commissioners table it this evening and it's on an agenda 60 days out for consideration, could we bring uh with us basically a restricted deed that would allow you all to consider that compromise approach or do we have to because that's a different substantively different I'm just thinking if we could come if we don't have to go back through APC and we could get back in front of you guys again um with that compromise approach uh of some pretty comprehensive limitations. Could could you take it up? This is my question.

So do the basically do the commitments need to go before the APC to be considered by you all? I would prefer I would prefer that approach that approach. Okay. because I'm a guy that's got 14 months in this job and I have not, like I said, I've only read the zoning ordinance twice and I've gone through the comprehensive plan once. So, I would not feel comfortable without getting eyes that are more familiar with

that along with Mr. shelling your attorney to to provise of that, okay? To to review it and look at it. And my greatest concern for us, it sets a precedent. It's just not your case. It's countywide. And as soon as we do it for one, guess what? Hasn't it been done? We want We want the same. You open up a Pandora's box. Hasn't it been done before, though?

We're talking precedent for the entire county. is that if we make if we make this deviation to the the normal part of the process, we establish a precedent for the entire county. So basically, we're modifying a comprehensive plan for one business that impacts that has significant impacts and I'm concerned with the fallout and second third order effects for us to make that kind of on the-fly kind of decision. Yes. Return to Yeah, you the attorney. Yes.

Yes. Um, real briefly, I mean, just as an or like kind of a point of order type of thing. I mean, the reason you have an ordinance is because that's when you make those policy judgments about the balancing between business, residential, and you get to make those decisions and they last. And when you make your next comprehensive plan, if that's within your terms, you'll want that to last, whatever your decisions are. And so, that's generally why it's from a policy standpoint, it's probably not good. um to essentially reinvent zoning when you have an application. You would like to do that in a more organized fashion. I do disagree.

And and that is why the statute is the way it is. It gives you those factors and you don't consider the person really. Um it's not Mr. Clark. I mean, it is his crown right now, but uh it may change. And we don't have I've never heard of a commitment that would just expire when the person leaves. I mean essentially I don't think that's legal.

It's not really a thing that would be recommended or that the precedent that you want to set because when you make your decisions and you want to send a message to the next board of commissioners 10 20 years down the road, you you do want them to try to honor your policy judgments when you do that planning process. And I just I just think there's a there's a wisdom in the way that boards most commonly like yourselves like to approach these decisions. Thank you. Understood. Thank you. Uh Julia Julia, didn't former commissioners zone stuff before that was uh what would be considered spot zoning? So the presidents has already been set.

The president has already been set.

Okay. So Okay. So let me clarify that. Okay. Presidents is based upon who sits in the seat. So just because prior commissioners perform that action doesn't mean that that that action can't change. Again, we're in a legislative body. You see things changing in laws and ordinances all the time. So I I again, so if it's talking about precedence being set, it would be precedence being set for this board. But we Tim and I don't make it around the next thing. And now you've got two new commissioners here who have completely and totally different perspective on what zoning needs to look like and what the ordinance need to look like to do that. So

let me let me just say if let's let's try and reason this. Yeah. Okay. We have unanswered questions. Would it would it be totally out of line if I was to make a motion motion to table this until we can get everything clear? I mean, Mr. Clark's practically willing to do whatever willing.

And again, I the concern that I do have with the prior gentleman stood up is that we're basing it upon an individual. And again, I think the other part of that is I think I heard Kayla stand at the back door saying it's not legal. We don't know if it's legal or not. I don't know. Right. I I've been told it's something called a sunset clause. Again, not an attorney, but um that ex expiring either special exception or resoning once the ownership is changed, that's no longer allowed. That's something that we saw done um especially here in the '9s before for special exceptions. It said, "Well, only as long as Mr. and Mrs. Smith own the property." Okay.

Well, you can't do that. The special exception goes with the property by law. But what I was going to suggest, if you do table, and if it's just to get some clarification from attorneys, can I ask that you table it to the afternoon meeting unless you're going to take public comment again? I just don't want the clock to run out. And if you are able to send it back to the APC if you decide to do that, I don't want that clock to run out while he's waiting to get on the agenda for the APC and then waiting to get back on the agenda for you guys because you'd have to refile, resend out notices. Okay. Why would we want to Okay, now clarify. Why would we table it again?

I mean, we've got you guys recommended a no vote. Um, you considered the conditions, you addressed that. Um, you had a four to one uh not to recommend approval. I think that's what Ron was saying is because we have so many unanswered questions. What unanswered questions do you have?

The various kinds of fractions with regards to the the again this this ordinance here again it sets a precedent and I understand that there's there's it's functioned this way and it has happened and I I noticed this was a two two one vote for this ordinance. I I I'm just asking questions. The question is is is it going to I'm going to ask this question myself. Is it going to dramatically change my where we're at with this? I don't know that that's the case. That's the question I have. And Ron was saying, will you table it? So Ron, you're saying if we table this, what things would you like to see come before you to further your discussion or further a decision? Well, the attorney hasn't answered the questions yet.

You're talking about the the James James? Yeah. I mean, are you asking just about the timing part of it? I mean, that's Yeah. Yeah. If we vote If we vote, uh, we agree with the APC's recommendation. Does that they can't refile for a year? Yes. That part they can still go through the the the separate processes, but they go through the BCA, right? Yeah. Did you just put the guy out of business? Well, okay. We just had a gentleman stand at the microphone stand. It's not going to put him out of his business. It is put him out of business at that location. That's correct.

So, I I mean, reasonable conversation. Is it is it worth it if we withdraw this application and go back through as opposed to getting a couple of nos tonight up here and go back through the process APC with the deed restrictions? I don't know if it's going to change minds, but we might get another bite of the apple doing it that way. That would be my preference. Kayla, I ask James if that affects since it's been voted on by only one board. How's that affect the timing, James? James, if they resend rescend their petition, can they immediately

Does the clock just Is a new clock start? I'll be honest. I I don't I don't know right now. I'm I'll talk to Stephanie and try to get an answer ASAP, but like I'm just not sure about this particular case. Okay. Could you you think you can do that within the next within within 30 minutes or so or do we want need to table that for our next meeting to get that answer? I'll give her a call uh and try to find out. Okay, cuz we can move on. I don't want to, you know, look, I don't want to do wrong by you guys and everybody's asking the question like you guys want an answer. I get it. Okay, Mr. Clark has something else to say. And we've got Yeah, we've got about a we got more on the agenda. So we can

I I have a question. Um that police Thank you.

I I have a question for for whoever can answer it. Uh I'm a little clear about the comprehensive plan both existing and new. Doesn't it state in in both plans that we should encourage and make exception for home maintenance based businesses? Isn't that clearly written? I I don't I wouldn't consider this spot zoning. And it says clearly written in the comprehensive plan both of old and new that that we should encourage and make exception for homebased businesses that that provide infrastructure to the county and that and that that that that is us uh uh some people that couldn't make it here tonight that spoke out in support and did write letters to to to the commissioner boards and and ABC uh were stating as much as well. Um uh I'm not sure if I'm allowed to speak for people who aren't there aren't here tonight. Uh that's neither here nor there. Uh but there's several uh prominent uh business uh members with uh deep deep ties to the community and and family and opposition that uh uh that that uh are in support as well. Uh uh so I mean this is a uh a sensitive subject for for for many or all of us. Uh uh we need to to find a way for for for business like mine and so many others to to operate without without uh knowingly being a gray area or or afraid to come. uh a few of the builders tonight uh and and people I work with uh you know are nervous and I understand that they they want didn't feel comfortable coming up here tonight cuz they're not they're not being

uh uh uh considered for for reasoning. Okay. Well, so we're waiting to get an answer from our attorney comprehensive plan also limits general business encourages general business along the highways on 46 and 135 and 45. It also specifically states that because that's a preference from general business preference but not only um the other commissioners like I said have zoned other piece of property what would be considered spot zoning.

What I'm wanting asking is to table it until we can answer the questions and to see Mr. Clark is willing to do whatever to make this work. I mean, in consideration to him and all his employees, and I mean, there's unanswered questions, I make a motion to table and give everybody time to look everything over, not do a rush decision, and possibly mess a lot of people's lives up. I'm not voting for it. I'm voting to table it.

So, I ask that you clarify. Would you be willing to stipulate a time frame on to table it for next meeting our first meeting? Typically votes like this happen in the second meeting. So wouldn't that be like the 15th of April? That way we're not doing in the afternoon because it's a big vote. Ron, what's your questions? My question is do I get a second on table? Now the question is what questions did you The question is that are questions answered by the attorney.

What specifically do to is the question you want to ask the attorney. We asked James about the one year if we if they can resend it. Can they reapply through the APC and then put those conditions in there? That's the that's the one question that James is working on right now. Do you have other questions for the attorneys? You said it sounds to me like it's too complicated to all pull together. I'd rather take the time and get it right as to rush the decision. I'm asking for to be reasonable and show these people some respect. Okay. So, I take offense of that statement. Pardon? I take offense of that statement. I'm trying to be reasonable and I'm trying to I've been very accommodating in this conversation. So,

you take offense? Yes, sir. I'm sure. Well, I'm sorry. I've taken offense too before. Yeah, I get that. That's all right. I'll just let you know. So, so the there's two questions there's two questions that I have that I have asked that that James needs to answer. The question of is from a process standpoint of I made the statement is if there is a again is it better to withdraw because there's considerations that need to be done here and does that restart the clock? Again, if you can get that answer tonight, great. But I hate to again I don't want to bring people back to a second meeting.

I'm gonna say from from our perspective um talk to Stephanie that I think withdrawing and restarting would restart the clock because you guys haven't taken an action and it would kill the proposal. So there's no there there. Um you guys always have the option of voting it down and you know killing the clock for the you know a year or whatever but if the uh motion were allowed to be withdrawn I think that would that should at least stop the clock on from our understanding. Okay. So if we go get my ordinate, my ABC ordinate.

If if we request to withdraw the application tonight, we're not waiting that year to to file it again. Um will we go back to the the APC and go through that process again? So yeah, this is specifically a board centric answer. Uh the APC's own time limits or regulations are not what I'm talking about. This is purely just as a motion before the board, meaning the commission. The commission, sorry. Yeah. And it's the board's preference, right, that if we tabled it for 30 days to put together the deed restrictions, you you would want to go back through the APC.

And again, I'm not even going to guarantee you that that's the case, right? Again, here's an expectation that I would have with that is that you would end up having a conversation. And it sounds like Miss Rogers is one of those that said doesn't make any difference what you propose. I'm still a no, right? Um and then but again the the the the concerning thing for me in this conversation tonight in this zoning is that I've heard people say I like the business and I like that but I don't want it to be freeforall after that fact, right? And so the question becomes is and I think I also heard another discussion that says well you can put anything on paper but unless you go through the exercise of enforcing it's not going to have any any teeth to it right and we do have a working example of that right now with a junkyard that is on north 135 because they are not in compliance of covenants that are deed restrictions and that are operating restrictions. Um, that's kind of off topic compared to this, isn't it?

I mean, we're talking about Mr. No, it it goes to the point of enforcement. Yes. Right. So, and it goes to the point of enforcement and complaints. Are would you be reasonable enough to let them withdraw it? I'm fine if they choose to withdraw it and fine if they want to. Is that okay, Mr. Clark? So, if you want to make that motion, let me ask. Mr. Clark, are you okay with drawing your motion to zoning so you can try and figure it out?

I I would like to uh uh refer to my lawyer or for an answer, but tonight I think we would request a withdrawal and and I we can do some more research. No, what?

They haven't voted. Okay. Um area plan commission rules and procedure. So this is just when it comes before us, not when it comes to you guys. So final disposition of cases, a case may not be withdrawn by the petitioner after the vote has been ordered by the president. No case which has been denied by the commission shall again be placed on the docket for consideration by the commission within a period of 6 months from the date of the decision previously rendered. So to file again if you withdrew and refiled for ABC it would the way I'm reading this six months from February 20 was the 24th. I left the rest of my notes in there of course.

What was the first part of that? A case may not be withdrawn by the petitioner after the vote has been ordered by the president. Is that that's for APC? That's for APC. Not for not for this. Yeah. So we we can let them withdraw it and then they can do what they want and come back. Six months. They can't refile before six months for the APC. Is that just for general business or or uh with with Yeah. So even if you added commitments, it would still be the same petition. It would just be adding commit commitments. Is that correct, James? That's our ordinance. He doesn't know. That's a that's an IPC question, but I mean what she's saying makes sense.

Yeah. Are the uh the commitments that are something I'm supposed to already have on the deed or No, and I don't even I got questions on that was saying that we again we've got an example. Do we want to set that as presidents? It sounds like one of our members doesn't. I don't know that the I don't know that again and and I'll just make the point that you know there's two more of us and I'm not sure that I'm comfortable setting that precedent. Ron you speak for yourself. Well, well then I guess I'm back to wanting to table it.

That would I mean I'll I'll try again. the uh if we table it and I know you don't want to. I'm just throwing this out there again for what it's worth. If it's tabled, it stays as an application with with the board.

Correct. And then 30 60 days it would come back up uh for consideration and you know by then you know we could have done some more research some more deep diving and and could see if that if the compromise way would work and not go through the APC and that's the fastest route for Mr. Clark. If it's if it's withdrawn it's 6 months from February right? the other attorney. Well, if it's denied, it's one year to reapply to the uh I'm thinking to the board of commissioners. Yeah. Six months for the APC. One year for us.

Okay.

Appreciate allowing kind of both voice sides of the matter to speak on this side. I don't know that you've closed off com little comments, so we'll try to keep it short, but essentially um we could be a situation where we're kind of just kicking the can down the road because there's it's a decision of either are we going to make this residential or are we going to make this business? And we um you know, you don't need any more. We would respectfully submit you don't need more information. you already have a zoning map puts us in R1. Um, could you have adopted a commitment reasonable conditions? Could those have been committed to the APC or not or or tonight? Maybe. But what it all boils down to is do you want to set up those kind of uh those rules on a property and do you want to do more of them or do you want to just keep the ones that you have cuz you can't get rid of them. I mean, that's the fact is a legally non-conforming business once established, it can continue in an operation. So, 1964, if they were doing it, there's nothing illegal about somebody who did something a long time ago. The difference on these ones is they were not legally non-conforming. So, they were not in compliance. And so, there's not like a grandfathering effect that he can benefit from. And so, that's what makes these kinds of cases different. I I don't know that I know all the answers to the APC procedural questions, but I do know the answer that um you know what you're discussing is whether you want to accept a written commitment or voluntarily committed by the applicant or whether you want to to impose reasonable conditions. And the interesting thing about that is you don't have a lot of options. Um, and so you're you're I don't know that you really could put reasonable so what reasonable conditions would be on general business. I mean it is a it is

the broadest category of business that you have. You would be very narrow. I mean what you're basically talking about is a PUD uh a plan unit development ordinance that was discussed at um the APC. They vetted that option and um Mr. Robertson, I believe, could speak more intelligently to that, but essentially you don't want PUDS all over the county. Um, and there's a lot of different requirements to do that. And so, I guess I just wanted to highlight that for those who weren't there or didn't hear the APC meeting. those concerns were addressed because you can I mean fact I'm I'm well aware of how a PED might work but that is probably not the kind of direction that this one is needing to go if you are trying to keep it residential. So if you have it I mean I'm happy to answer those questions but I I don't know if that's appropriate.

Okay. So if we put the restriction on it that it's only for Mr. Clark to do his business there. You can't. Can't. Well, and then when he leaves, it goes away.

So, I guess the question would be it it really kind of goes straight against the comprehensive plan. It goes against the neighborhood. It I'm not telling you what you what you can't or cannot vote on. I mean, you're you're you're here. Uh I don't I don't sit in your your your chair at all. So, um I want to be respectful to any decisions that you choose to make. Um but the idea of imposing reasonable conditions would be legally problematic. Um if he were to bring forward a voluntary commitment, what you would be saying is we're essentially kind of creating a new zone definition and and PUDs are for that, but that is a whole process. And I think you've got to decide as a board, do you want to have something which kind of raises to the level of a PUB here. Um, which yeah, I mean, commissioners can do those sorts of things and we would be strongly against them for the reasons of what would act the uses that would actually take place. Um, and so that's what we're against. We're not we're not really arguing about your rules or or the timing of anything. We're really just saying we think the main concern is do we want a business on this street? And our answer is no. And their answer is yes. And I I realize you that that puts you in a tough decision, but I don't think it's a procedural question. I think it's more of a policy judgment. Do we want a business or do we want a residence? And I think the APC was saying doesn't really so much matter is those cons those conditions were brought up at the APC. He didn't use legal ease, but they were they were there and that didn't I mean for I'm not able to to change our position on that. So I don't know if that even answers your questions were do my best.

Well and I don't think it address the resident's concerns either. So yeah, I don't know that we could honestly and and we could come back in 30 to 60 90 days and we pro honestly we would be saying the same thing. So, we think it should stay residential. And

I just I disagree because I have to, but also because I think Mr. Clark and his employees and their families have made a pretty good case tonight to continue doing business. So, another bite at the apple, I don't think it's unreasonable. I think that what they're doing and I think you there's been precedent set. I know that there was a comment about, well, that was a different board, but there's been precedent set about deed restrictions being a part of approval by the board. So, just trying to let you know that, you know, it's our position that I we should be able to uh withdraw and go back through the APC. Deputy Barry, my question is for an attorney, are deed restrictions forever?

Well, that need you need to address not so much, but no, not that's what I'm saying. Need to address about these deed restrictions. Is that forever or can they be changed? So those deed restrictions from my knowledge from just the example we keep talking about with the the with the salvage yard and 135 right those have been there since 19 what 60 they're longer than they've been longer there been there longer than others so those restrictions are there and that is a course of action so that means that US

if that were things put in place would have a means by which to go through the exercise of exercising civil law they would go with the deed. They would go with the deed regardless of who owns it. That's correct. Run with the land. Y and that would be when you would zone at general business with the deed restrictions and it would again that again that's a question I don't have the answer to and and that's why we're concerned. So, so general business, the gentleman, Miss Rogers, attorney, can you raise your hands and come back with

my my understanding and your attorney can correct us is that commitments are things that only Brown County government gets to enforce. And so we would respectfully submit that if you're going to accept either a written commitment or impose reasonable conditions, it doesn't make us feel very good to know that we would need at least one more person on staff to be able to handle it because we can't enforce it. There's nothing we can do to enforce a commitment that is only for the county to enforce through its office. That that's just want to make sure I said that correctly. Jesse

Yeah. Um, so, uh, I I just want to reiterate before any kind of vote or or table decision or or or with the restrictions. Um, we have presented the restrictions tonight. Um, um, we we presented them to to Mr. Andelli over here, the law firm. Uh, we didn't know who to present them to. Uh, between ABC and now. Uh so so we address uh Debbie's uh lawyer uh uh the woman that's uh in opposition uh all out opposition. Um again many of the neighbors here tonight uh are are are saying that and and and members of the ABC board are saying that uh you know we want to find a way that that doesn't mess with our property. Right. But but the main thing I I'd like to reiterate that this plot of land again has never had a house on it. Has always been used for business from the time it was built. Although while being on residential, I I understand it's not the way it is. Uh but but there's no real difference happening in the neighborhood except the fact that we're cleaning it and we're putting rules in place that keep us from trashing it out. Um it's been accepted uh for for since the 60s as business location. Um whether that's legal or not, I I understand and I like I said, I just want to throw that out there.

You know, I understand. Final final question. I bet you're going to say there were houses on there. Yes. Yes. Okay. Thanks. They were torn down. Let me ask Mr. Clark. There is one There is one house still there, but it was subdivided on that property. It was lived in by the owner Evelyn and that was a recent change. Mr. Pierce, let me see if I can get my head wrapped around this. Hold on. Go ahead, Ron. Thanks. Let me see if I get my head wrapped around this.

Did you ask uh are you still asking to have it u not not maybe tabled, but you still asking to pull it? And that would give him six more minutes. Okay. Yeah. And I think we was in agreeance with letting him pull it since I wasn't really getting I wasn't really getting a a no from

I think I think you may have slightly misunderstood the APC. She's saying that they can't reapply, but the votes already been taken from their side. And then I I'm not sure that uh at this point I mean he could pull it but he couldn't reapply. Yeah. He's going to be a half a year because we're saying I again I wouldn't want to consider a half year to APC and then a year to you all. Is that the Yeah, that's how I understand it. A year if we allow him to withdraw. It was a year be one year from today if we voted. No, it' be a year is the way I read the email.

Yes. Yes. But we've already voted, so we have to do it for 6 months, but then you guys have to wait the additional 6 months if they vote. If if you vote, if we vote, correct? If you vote. Yeah. Well, and then we're back. It's the kicking the cannon issue down. Now we're back in the same thing. You've got residents standing up. It's been residential. No matter what what these conditions are, they're not acceptable. A lot of the risk is we can't afford it. There's no history of enforcement. Am I reading that right? I don't think any you're going to accept any conditions on that particular property. Just know that general business that's position. So we're back we'd be back to the same meeting.

Do the commissioners have to accept my res withdrawal of the but can I just say I'm I'm withdrawing our application again. It triggers your time frame right year. That means in essence what you is have an operating property that's not in compliance with ordinance which we don't enforce.

I'm going to make this statement that we we don't have the bodies in the in the APC to enforce the ordinances. The only tool that we have as the board and as a county at this point in time is the enforcement at the point to where the questions being raised and where the petition's coming forth. I believe that will make the point back in the back row. So, so if we go down this path and take a no vote, I mean there is the risk that he could continue to operate his business in defiance of the ordinance. I would want some guidance from you all to Yes. That's because the APC is again saying, well, is this something the commission is going to want to go through and pursue and we need help with enforcement?

Yeah, I yeah, I don't understand that position. The other one I preferred that this was in the this was a change to the to the comp plan, not not the deviations to to what that stands. We need to address that comp. Is there a timeline for them being kicked off the property if you guys depends on it? Again, that's Kayla's the expert on that. I I mean, I've given as much grace as I'm I I think I've given more than I'm really supposed to give at this point. I don't want to keep kicking the can down the curb because that's not helpful cuz then it's weak. We're weak on enforcement.

All right, anything else? I think I'm back to turn the table. Okay. And then a motion. Motion to take. Is there a second? You know, no second. Another motion.

I hate to do this. At this point in time, given the conditions and looking at the comprehensive plan, my motion would be is that we not reszone this to general business. Okay, I'll second that. Okay, roll call. I'm not agreeing with them. So, my mine would be a no. Uh, yes to reszoning. You voted no. Correct. I'm making the recommendation that would you do not reszone general business. Okay. We're accepting APC's recommendation. Correct. Okay. Some No. Okay. So, Ron, no. Tim, yes. Kevin,

yes. Thanks everyone. Again, the business model, your experience is great. What that wasn't the issue. It's all about owning the land. Sure. I still don't know.

I think you need to stay here, too. I think you're probably not. That's it. That's it. Not that I'm trying to run out or anything, but it's mine. You can you can you can try that.

You can try that. I put in my barn. Yes. I don't need to have my vans there. They're buy a company logo on my own. I'm not I'm not transition. Maybe they could park their vans at home. What's that? Maybe they could park their vans at home. Yeah. Uh do that. They just go there to your barn to get what you got stolen in your barn. Possibly you could, you know, build a house there. Come back. Thank you guys. I'll put you move you up. I

appreciate it. Then the rest of it is just pretty much boring stuff on our part. Well, should put her up on front. Yeah, it's okay.

How's that? Robert be proud of me, right? Somewhat. All right, Maller. again.

Okay. So, um we'll start with the grant because that should be the easiest thing to go through. Um so, um every year, uh community corrections rights grants to the Indiana Department of Corrections for um funding for our program. As most of you know, we do not um ask for any county monetary um contributions. Um the I went before the council on Monday and got a signed letter of support um stating all the inind services that the county does provide for us. Um and so statutoily I have to have commissioner approval um and a letter of support for our grants which I come before the commissioners every year. Um the grants are due April 1st. um our advisory board has has them and um I have enough votes right now to move forward with them on from the community corrections advisory board. Um so I had sent out a copy of all of our grants, the corresponding budgets, the community corrections collaboration plan, and the 2025 annual report, plus a draft of the letter that I have um provided to you guys tonight. Um, so what I'm asking is that you vote to approve the grants and sign the letter of support tonight.

Okay. So, I only had one question. Yep. Um, I saw in the documents that you provided were your operating numbers with regards to your budget versus your I can't remember what the second column heading was, but is that those other numbers outside from what you're from the grant? Outside of the grant? Yeah. The project income is what you're talking about. Yes. Okay. Income. Yeah. So the project income, so we operate from um the grant dollars that we receive from the state and then everything else outside of those grant dollars um we operate out of our project income which is what we've collected from user fees on an annual basis. So

Yep. And then we have another fund that we do operate out of that is not listed on our budget because we don't really touch that throughout the year. It's kind of another budget that I a fund that I keep as an extra rainy day. Okay. So that project income is being generated from whatever fees you're collecting or whatever actions you're correct. It is not nothing um that the county gives us. Okay. All right. Great. Officer I don't I've went through her letter of support and I went through and reviewed the information the grants I know that you've applied for um since 1986. So, I'm going to make a motion that we proceed with approving the go forward with the grants request and the letter of support.

I'll second. Okay. Tim, yes. Kevin, yes. Ron, yes. Okay. And then if you guys can sign that letter, I'll take that this evening as well. You just need this sign letter. Y. Okay.

Thank you. Um, okay. And then on to the next um thing that I was on the agenda for. Um I had provided the com commissioners um well first we came to the commissioner admit meeting just as an education um and to educate the commissioners on um our kind of proposal that we were going to be coming here tonight to propose to the commissioners regarding juvenile detention. Um I was asked to put together a fact sheet which I had sent out and I also provided copies to you guys um tonight up there for you. Um so juvenile detention um you know we are require there are certain things that we have to detain juveniles for there are just some that we cannot get around that the bills that we get from that are paid out of the commissioner budget. Um on average it's anywhere from $140 to $300 per day per juvenile um that the commissioners are paying when we detain a juvenile. Um in the fact sheet I explained what juvenile detention is. We um gave the expenditure history um since 2017. Um and then we have our proposal. Um so with juvenile detention we only really have one option. and it's either leave them at home with no sanction um and no um immediate court involvement or we have to detain the juvenile and they have to go to a detention facility which can be in a surrounding county or it can be all the way to VO County um depending on where we can find a bed. Um that requires an officer then to be taken off the road and transport that juvenile to said detention facility. Um, and like I said and I we explained, there are just some that we have to do. We we don't have an option for not only their

safety, but community safety. Um, or because of a court order. Um, however, one option that we would like to have the option to do is to have a detention alternative of placing juveniles on home detention, which is a cost of $7 a day. Um, and so having that alternative, the goal is to one be able to have an alternative when we don't have a bed space, to be able to have an alternative for kids that we really don't need to detain, but we need to have immediate intervention. Um, and so then we have that alternative instead of our only option being detention. Um, and also the other goal is that we potentially and hopefully will help alleviate that commissioner budget and the expense to the commissioners down the road. Like I said, there's some that we just cannot avoid. Um, unfortunately, um, and I think we reviewed even just last year's, um, it was the three same juveniles that we were seeing. And so when you have that, we kind of get stuck. However, then we're hoping to alleviate some of the newer juveniles we we have that potentially um would not need to be detained, but have it sanctioned and before the court at a much quicker time frame. So our ask is that that $7 a day during that kind of pre-adjudication phase where it would be detention that the commissioners would pay for that as an alternative to detention out of that detention fund.

Okay. So your proposal is that. So I don't do we need I mean you just basically need us to nod our heads in a vote to say yes we'll support this. Yes. And we Yes. when we have a plan, we are um set for the law enforcement inservice training to roll this out with law enforcement officers because there is a document that they will have to fill out. We've already received approval from the judge to move forward. Um the commissioners are kind of the final step for us to start actually implementing. Just just one question. Yeah. Okay. So, they get to ankle monitor, they're at home. If they commit an offense after that, they come out of the home.

Um, that is at the discretion of our juvenile officer and if we have enough probable cause to do anything about that because they still have due process and we still have to abide by their constitutional rights in obtaining probable cause. Um, and and you know, if they are on an ankle monitor and and do commit another crime or you know, cut their ankle monitor because that does happen. um they do get a new offense and there will be even more repercussions and they could end up in detention versus on an ankle monitor. This allows for an alternative for we do have quite a few kids that you know they would they really don't need detention and they would probably benefit from having an ankle monitor monitor on cuz what happens is when they go to detention if they are not ones that we feel necessary they're they potentially are being exposed to people that have committed worse crimes or have done worse things that than what they have done. So that's also a deterrent and part of the reason we want to have this option. Okay,

I'm good with it. Yeah, I'll make a motion that we Sorry, Tim. No, that's good. I'll make a motion that we support the proposal that's been presented here by Mallalerie to uh offset the cost to the county under the commissioner's budget line item for juvenile detention by allowing the use of You done? Yes, sir. I Kevin, yes. Ron, yes. Tim. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you for your patience. Thank you for your patience. Yeah. Glad I could spend time with you guys. On her birthday. Oh man. Get some coffee with you.

I will. I already have it. Thanks. Thank you. Okay. Well, we'll be rolling that Kim. Auditor contract. Honor contract. So, Ron, uh, so I read the contract. Um, there's language in there for termination clause. Our attorneys reviewed that was presented. This was a contract that was entered into before. I'm sufficient with that. And so, do we need to have discussion on it or you've been with it, Julie? Yep. Okay. So I basically make a motion that we accept the auditor's contract for the homestead production audit. Second management.

Second Ron. Yes. Tim. Yes. Kevin. Yes.

Um I'll take the next Let's move this along. So we did go through the exercise of looking at the attorney contract with the county council. Their contract was in order for the review that was conducted by Barnes and Thornberg. I looked at that. I did make some recommendations on renewal as it goes to consideration for actually having a much more formal clause on uh related to the time frame whether it be an auto renewal or something of that nature. along the idea along the lines of also identifying who can trigger the actual um cost incurred, but they have already said that they were only going to take action if the president of the council engages with the attorney. So,

uh is there a u what word am I looking for? A budgeted amount for their attorney? No, there is not. There's none. No. and we can't require that. We can make a recommendation and that was one of my recommendations and they said they basically said that they would it's going to be as needed which is what they've been doing. We kind of had a problem with this because we started out with them, you know, they was under Barnes and Thornberg spent $1,000 a month retainer and uh I believe last year it was over 30,000

and um I think u I just don't know, you know. Do you have any They're the fiduciary they're the fiduciary body. They get to dictate how much money that they spend on their legals. Okay. So, unfortunately, I mean, I'm can sit there and say, "Hey, I'd like to have that." We've seen it in some of our contracts where we put an expending exception or spending limit as to that, which I we place that on ourselves. We wouldn't have to. So, well, okay. That's that's just my two cents. Yeah. So, again, that review, they've they've already approved that contract, so just it was an update.

Okay. Thanks. Good. um adoption of the Indiana code. Hang on just a second. Yes, sir. And this this here we just approved from Mallerie. I think there's just um two signatures available in whose paper. Am I looking at that wrong? No. What's that with the model? Oh, that's a test. No, that's a test. A test. There's two a test. You only need one. So, this one's probably Go ahead and sign it. Kevin, you want to sign it? I think there's only two signatures there, isn't it?

Yeah. Okay. So the next item was the resolution in to basically allow us to access access the build operate transfer uh model. Um our attorney reviewed that. It was standard. It's been crafted to us. Um I would prefer or I would like to proceed forward with implementing it so that we have a second tool in our tool belt that allows us to build buildings differently than we're building them today. I uh I kind of take issue with this particularly down here general conditions. It says proposing firms shall not contact county commissioners, county council members, or any other public officials during the RFPQ process other than the RFPQ committee's representative. The representative listed below listed below unless authorized or directed to do so by the representative. All correspondence questions for this RFPQ should be directed to representative as follows. And it's got Dan Cartright listed. We have we have done two major projects using DLZ.

Okay. And I think that it's went fairly well. There was some issues. They got took care of and we move forward with it. Um I don't the bot you say the bot's different. Do we have a copy of the bot or is that something that comes later?

Copy of the actual bot. So the actual process is build loan transfer. So in essence what happens is we the county incur no cost until we actually go through and award the bid. So they will be going through and engaging with all of the stakeholders along with our commissioner's office and them through Dan Cartright in order to define what our requirements are and then they will go through take that information and then propose a set value or bid of to what it takes to build that building.

Yeah. And then at that point in time that can can go through a couple of different organizations to do that and then we go through review it and at that point design starts and then that's when we start incurring cost associated I'm just kind of going to pull some numbers here. Um, if I'm halfway correct, I want to think it was around $64,000 for design and about $64,000 to manage the uh project of the uh courthouse and that was a million. It's somewhere in the range of close to what we're looking at for the uh prosecutor office. Mhm.

The numbers, I'm kind of interested in the numbers on what these this company, this bot, they're not doing it for nothing. Uh, and then we got Dan on top of it at $75 an hour. You know, I kind of like to see some numbers before. You won't get those numbers until you exercise the bot process. Well, that's why I'm not in favor of the bot. Well, this is just a resolution giving us that option now. And Julie, we need a number on the a resolution number. Okay. 2025 2020 26 26 2026. Sorry about that. I'm still in 2025. Uh what? 03 03 18

18 0000.

So just go back up to let's just back up with the DLZ DLZ. So, in the recent project that we've had with the jail, they basically came forward with two change orders that were basically pushed back on by us and those change orders have disappeared. But in my take, in my experience when managing projects of this nature, it is there was negligence in my opinion on what the work they did. Be careful. So they did not go through and do a when they did do their walk through and all of that stuff, it was missed items that should have been caught on that walk through.

Now you understand the DLC don't get the money from the change orders. They just change orders. They present the change orders. The contractor is asking for that. I understand that. And what I remember was you said something about some $2,000 sensors that come uh and you actually I believe used the one that the maintenance people had taken out. Is that correct? That is correct. 2000. So the contractor had to eat the 2000 on the sensors is what you're saying. Basically went through the company that provided those sensors and they they basically furnished those sensors through the providing sensor company. So then the other change order was kind of minimal.

The other change order was much larger than that was over 20 thou almost over $20,000 and it was again because they were sensors that are in the unit that they did not forecast or see through the exercise of DLZ when they went through that and we removed the existing sensors and then units and use them in the new units. Well, in million dollar plus construction, you're going to run into issues. Uh,

on a on a million dollars, I don't think that was out of line. It got took care of. DLZ is a multi-million dollar company. Your own words, Kevin, you said DLZ is a multi-million dollar company that has the resources. They actually use their same attorneys that we do, but you're wanting to put it all in the hands of this guy here, this other guy, Dan. Basically, that's Dan's our representative to basically communicate what we have. That's $75 an hour. So, how many hours is he going to put into this project? He's going to put in the hours that's needed to take to do the project. Yeah. So, that can So, again, so a week for a year.

So, here's the thing. So, again, there's not to exceed clause on that as well. and it's not going to consume all of its time. So that's the project in and of itself is going to be defined that way. So we want to go back down the conversations with regards to is it the right approach. I think the approach that we've been using has not been effective because we just found out today after we had the power shortage in Nashville that the generator is not hooked to the sally port nor is it to the security area. Generator to jail. The generator at the courthouse is not hooked to the sallyport, nor is it hooked to the security area.

So, I would have thought that that would have been something that DLZ would have caught during the design phase. So, I'm sorry. I don't have I don't really speak can speak on that at this moment. Well, that's what's being looked at by our maintenance guys right now. Okay. So, and then we've had to take care of a drainage issue at the courthouse that should have been fixed and taken care of. Wasn't that the drainage stopped up? No, it was not the drainage. They inadequately placed the drainage locations in order to handle the water shed that was coming along the street. Yeah. Well, the contractor actually come back again and changed the size of that drain. He did. And it still did not fix the problem. It is kind of downhill.

Okay. So the Sally Porton what? Sorry. Was it not hooked to the Sally Porton whatever? Sally Porton the security area. The new security area. All right. So I prefer to basically equip myself with a second tool to allow us to look at other ways to build the prosecutor's office. So my recommendation is we adopt the resolution. Let me let me be real clear here. I'm not against building the prosecutor office.

Understand that. I'm just you're going down a different path. We've already done two over a million dollar deals with the DLZ and the problems have been resolved. Any problem construction there's problems other than now the generator supposedly and there might be a reason for that. So I'm going to make a motion that we move forward with the resolution to adopt bot. Okay. Is there a second? I'll second. Tim, yes. Kevin, yes. Ron, no.

Takes us down the quality of life committee. Update on that one, Kevin. So, I'll try to keep this short because we're well past we are reasonable hours. So the quality of life committee is basically an advisory board to the CBC. That committee originally was basically put together to get public support from the various inkeepers and other members of the community to adopt the increase in the inkeepers tax. That was its main purpose from the very beginning. Um it rolled over to this whole thing of once the inkeepers tax came forth and the legislation was able to be changed to now look at as supporting uh from a community group of partners uh from the community foundation, the council, the commission's office, the school and things of that nature to help identify how those funds that are being used can be applied in a grant process that the CDC is putting that the the quality of life board is putting structure around. Um and then basically they're also putting in working on having finalized everything at this date with regards to quantity of life the governing documents and structures. They're close we're close on that board. Um the capital project so the framework for this the grant aspect of it is going to look in three key areas. Capital development grants pro program grants meaning continuing education things of that nature. Promotional grants and and means of advertising and tourism. So, some of the things that would potentially fall under under the capital development grants uh to fit the infrastructure and facilities that will help the county relieve a burden as far as some of the maintenance cost is the cover bridge uh the historical park uh buildings down here below the historical society parks and recreation improvements, updates and projects which is things that are being done. some of the CDC has done some of that now and 4 fairgrounds improvements

and updates and projects. Um the other part of that is is as a method to continue or try and increase focus on engagement in the community. Um we've engaged in a sustaining with IU and their sustaining huer sustaining huser communities program and that particular program in of itself is um basically had two brainstorming information gathering meetings to talk with various I don't know how many we got the results back this past Wednesday. Okay. So how many people actually attended? It was um it was over 120 which we're the smallest county that they've partnered with so far. were the seventh and we were the most attended.

Right. Wow. And I can I can I can I know it's late, but I mean if you want me to I can email you. No, but yeah, email me that and then maybe we can schedule the something of more detailed depth of what's come from that in our next meeting in April.

But the there will be an official kickoff with IU on August 23rd at the seasons. So the process that happens with sustaining user communities now they take those projects they look at their course work throughout the year from their programs whether it be business whether it be the engineering technology those kinds of things and say how they can isolate what projects seem to fit best in the community that they have and then apply what their resources to it to give us some kind of idea how we can move that forward. What's that date again? August 23rd. It's a Thursday. Let me check. And so the other part of that, so that's moving forward, I'd say that there's August 20th.

August 20th. Okay. Correction. And then the final thing in there, which again, um, there's discussion through the various members that they're looking at an economic development corporation that's privately funded. Good. Okay. Okay. There has been no discussion on the EDDD that's gone any further than an initial discussion. I have I have been told that Owen County does not want to is being the blocking mechanism. Okay. All right. So, that's fine. I'm fine with that because I'm not sure that I'm a huge proponent of the ED.

ED was proposed in 2024. Ron, you were on the on the board then and there was no support from the commissioners. Well, maybe one commissioner u the council and the EDDD. The whole point the economic development agency falls under the department of commerce. The whole point of ED to get the federal grants was job creation and then the the infrastructure you need to support job creation employers. So if we got a so okay what's the problem if we're going to say hey we want to do this and we teamed up with Owen County Monroe County um and Brown County. So it's kind of a you you question that one but the thing was again jobs. So, it's like, okay, what's the problem? Do we have jobs and what's the problem? We have employers and what kind of jobs we want, what kind of employers we want. Um, that's what's the problem. And so, that's the issue I have is just the facts on that one. And, uh, and federal grants say, okay, that that's my concern. So, thanks, Kevin. I appreciate the update. I read about it in the paper and I see you're on there and it's like, well,

what are you signing us up to, buddy?

I'll be doing a better job of trying to bring those. and they do a pretty good job, you know, rolling rolling up. I guess the last thing we have up up here is on the update the comprehensive plan and I'll tell you timing wise, this is the kind of meeting the zoning change we had just identifies, you know, why we need a little better plan. Um, if you guys recall, the APC worked on it. They had I think it was $37,000 uh grant the foundation provided $27,000. The money had to be obligated by the end of I think it was December 2024. um APC kicked in 10,000. So they did a kind of a accelerated modified kind of update. Uh there was one two meetings on the same day and they did a survey. Um and then they went through the process got the approvals and then when it came to us it's just one community we our concern was there was no public engagement widescale public engagement for the plan. So we kind of put a hit on it. So we said we kind of tabled it and we didn't chose not to not to uh move it forward. Then we decided at that point when you looked at APC they have the role on these comprehensive plans but the commissioners have we can provide comments to the plan is what we'd like to see different. So what we did is we said okay can we get more money um out of okra $60,000 for a comprehensive plan. So, we worked with our grand administrator. We worked with Oprah. We looked at what that load to moderate income level was throughout the county and they said there's just no way we're going to qualify.

Yeah.

Um, we came out at 40 40.4% on the low to moderate income level. You needed 53 53. Well, you need 51%. And I know when I did the uh income survey back in 2017, we were at 53%, but they allowed us to do a statistical sample. they didn't have the data from the Census Bureau at the time. So, um they just said there's no way we'd be eligible for that $60,000 grant. Then to support community engagement, we we applied for another grant with our grant administrator, the rural economic development grant, Red. Um we asked for help on a community engagement strategy. Um and they and we got kind of turned down because we didn't have community engagement. So, kind of a catch 22 at that point. you know, we uh asked the RDC to come up with a community engagement strategy, which they did. They kind of drafted an RFP, which they did. Um I gave that to uh uh the the company Cynthy Bowen from REA Associates that did the town's plan to take a look at that and say, "Hey, could we do a community engagement kind of prototype at Van Beurren to test this concept that would support uh the you know, the updates to the comprehensive plan?" and they gave me kind of an gave me kind of an outline and said yeah they can do that from a planning perspective. It's called a sub area plan. So we've got an idea from the commissioners as to how we can get that community engagement get the information we need to to put a viable uh updates to the plan. So if we can do it in like I say one township we do in others and pilot that and get the input from citizens. Um, so at that point I got Kayla last Friday, took the uh took the proposal, boiled it down to two-page summary with a couple attachments and and uh we're going to talk to the APC and then identify next steps.

And and then Tim, if you want to use the CBB's mailing list to get that word out for these community meetings, please let me know and we would be more than happy to assist.

Okay, we'll keep that in mind. Yeah. So next test we just get with ABC and say hey here's our comments. Where do you want to go from here? And there's different options. So got to get their buy in. They can say thanks and no thanks and keep that draft plan on the on the shelf if you want. But uh we we kind of don't want to do that. So that's kind of it from the update. So I'll let you know. Um next step is getting with the APC. We'll go oneonone. We can have a joint meeting, whatever they want to do to work through it. But if we can combine the 2011 and the draft with the notes that we made and the expectations we have for the plan, I think we could have a pretty decent plan and that kind of plan we'd have to address. That's when you address this issues on the businesses and zoning. Got to find out, got to drill that down by areas and identify what residents are going to accept when it comes to those businesses. Got to do it. I mean, these guys just reinforce how critical that is. So that ought to be a, you know, a get it going moment. So let's let's fully expect we can do something with that. So that's it for me on the comprehensive plan. Kevin, back to the legal review. I got you March 19th. Town's going to look at that.

So the town's attorney did go through the exercise of looking at the partial transfer. They found no issues with it. Um we didn't have to cage attorneys any further on that. Um, so the communication that I have from Sandy Jones is it will be signed in their meeting on the March 19th. And so once we get that, we'll get it recorded, make sure that we have everything in spot and then we'll I'll put that in the hands of uh Mark Shields and ask him to start working on getting the power back at the uh Salt Creek Trail so we can put the things back online. Okay, please. Stacy, you got anything from the Fisher and Ben standpoint? You good?

I'm good.

Okay. Highway department. Um, we're going to we're scheduling interviews. Uh, we we've got several several resumes and we'll be well, we got we're in the process of scheduling interviews, uh, hopefully next week. Um, and then we got the draft bridge inventory rating inspection report and, uh, and we're taking a look at that. That's pretty interesting. Um we had a an estimate of replacement of eight bridges at a cost of around 88 8,360,000 rehabilitation needed on 27 estimated cost 9,670,000. Um on a posted degraded bridges interesting we had 38 38 of those. What's nice Kevin and I both learned you learned a little faster than I did. When we have a posted weight limit on a bridge that's that's like it needs work.

Oh. When they build a bridge, they build it to the maximum weight that bridge should handle. And when you have depreciation or issues with the bridge, they lower the limit. And so they have to post it. The post keeps us is is for our insurance purposes. That's actually

So when you see a posted, it's like needs work. And so what's nice is and what we're do a little different once we have like a database of these kind of bridges because these typically these past reports kind of stand alone and then you look at maybe what we what we're about 18 million that's about the same amount of money we had maybe the previous bridge report I remember Sarah Clifford writing about that and it's it hit my hit my radar when she threw out the numbers. So the numbers seem like pretty stable because we go in and repair and replace and and so we we keep our head above the above the water, but we I don't know if we're making much progress. So if we can monitor this over time, which is what we intend to do, then we can see what kind of progress we're making and on these bridges and and uh make them a little higher quality for everyone. So pretty interesting uh report, very detailed. So that's that's all I have on on uh legal. Um, James, anything?

Nothing for me. Okay. Hey, appreciate your help tonight. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Hey, a motion to close. Motion to adjourn.