Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

of I should have brought tomatoes from a garden cuz I have a lot tomatoes at them with onions, jalapenos. They're just little ones. Okay, then I'll garden. Thanks. Or green beans cuz I have a lot of green beans. Not us. It's 5:30. Charge. Yeah, MacBook. Do you got the recording ready? Okay. But I don't remember what to do. So, welcome to Planning Commission September 9th, 2025. Um, first order of business, the approval of the agenda.

Would anybody will you accept a motion if I make a motion? I would, but does do other people she have to say she's accepting a motion? Okay. I make a motion to approve the agenda for today. Okay. Um, have we all looked at the agenda? Yes. Okay. I make a motion to approve the agenda for today. Would anybody Yeah, I'll second it. Okay. Um, number two, do we have any declaration of conflicts of interest in the items? I want to call for a vote first of of the agenda just to make sure we're all like on board. We had a motion in a second. We had a motion in a second. Now we need to call for the Yeah.

Okay. Um, voting on approval of agenda. Would everyone give their All in favor? All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Any opposed? Any opposed? Okay. Doing great. Thank you. Number two, the declaration of conflict of interest. Do we have anyone that needs to declare? No. Do I have to just approve that or we just move on? Nope. Just move on. Okay. Number three, public comments. Three minutes again. Yeah. Who do you want to record? Um, I can time it. Probably not me.

I can do it.

Okay. I would any e either or both would be great. Okay. So, right now we're opening it up to public comments. Three minutes for each person. Please come up and state your name and we would love to hear from you. Hello, my name is Tiffany Purcell and I am just here to once again represent some of the people and thoughts in my neighborhood. Um, it's a beautiful neighborhood. We love it. We don't want to see it in a higher density housing. I've heard time and time again that we have to make sure we're protecting our property owners rights and I absolutely agree with that. I'm not saying stop building. I am asking once again that we stop reszoning to a higher density. Um the hills, they're not safe for all the kids. I just feel like having a higher density housing really is a safety issue. And time and time again, every time this is brought up, I feel like we're having a decent number of residents come out here and say we don't want this and we would like to know that we are being heard. Um I believe at the last planning meeting, we had 10 to 15 people come up and say we don't want higher density housing. And then shortly after I heard everybody say, "Oh, you know what would fix all of the problems you named is higher density housing." And I'm not sure we're being heard. I'm not sure that we're feeling heard. And we're just asking we like the single family homes. We like the neighborhood feel. We don't want to change that. So once again, I'll say my piece and ask for you not to reszone it. I'm all for development. I don't want it reszoned. Thank you. Thanks.

It's for the minutes of my comments. Thanks. Hi, my name is Christine Epilene and I'm here to represent a to present a report that documents the concerns of a significant portion of my neighborhood. This report documents a clear message. A vast majority of theo the the residents oppose the zoning change as it is a step closer to multifamily housing. With a remarkable 43% response rate out of 281 households on radio a radio hill 80.9% of these households would support a special zoning area to prohibit all forms of multifamily housing. The top three concerns were increased traffic strain on infrastructure and a change in the neighborhood's character. This clearly shows our community's desire to maintain a residential feel. Beyond community sentiment, as stated in a prior planning commission meeting, the proposed zoning directly contradicts the city's own current integrated land use plan. We also have serious fiscal and safety concerns about a proposal that has the potential to triple the amount of houses on the hill. We ask, has a formal trade study been conducted to determine the actual benefit or detriment to the city? In addition, we have vital questions that require a professional response. Has profit traffic flow study been conducted to ensure that 1000 North can handle the increased density? Have there been environmental studies regarding the landfill site and the underground springs? In addition, we have um we are here to protect our community values, not to extort the city for improvements. As evidenced in our surveys, residents overwhelmingly prefer single family homes on large lots with R12 and rural residential being the top two zoning choices. In this in this perfect and this perfectly aligns with the current land use plan. Deviation from a

foundational document required solid evidence to justify the change. With the current current rate of development, we are projected to meet the 2050 population outlined in the current integrated land use plan within the next 5 years. That is a fundamental flaw that provides that proves the plan is no longer a viable guiding document. As the land use institute handbook states, the tendency is for government officials and citizens alike to skip the preliminary steps required to understanding the general plan. Skipping such is is shortsighted and more likely to fail if challenged and more likely to breed cynicism and in those to those most affected. End quote. We are not just asking you to deny this request. We are asking you to take a step back and engage in a collaborative process to create a plan that is actually capable of guiding our city's growth in a safe and fiscally responsible way. There is no time crud here. It would be wise to wait for a new viable plan is created. We are here ready to work with you, but we must be listened to. Thank you. Anyone else? My name is Eric Richardson. I also live up in Spring Acres. And I feel like what Tiffany just shared of we're not being heard. I don't know how many times we have to come back to similar committees or city councils to say the same thing. We're not asking for changes. We're asking to stay with the plan that was already created, specifically the zoning plan that's already laid out on the city website. We don't want to go to higher density housing. We don't want to go to R1 R110s. We don't want to go to 08s. We

leave it at a 12. And I was really hoping the other gentleman in the middle, Rolan, was here because I'm the one that's came back and said, "We need to go to an R20." And that's not my proposal. My point is I feel like some of the city members and some of this committee here in this room are not working to serve the citizens of Tmont. We have a plan in place and some outside influence is pressuring you to deviate, pressuring you to make more money somehow, not you individually, but if you can go to a higher density housing, you put more homes into the city. And that's what we're trying to avoid. We want to stay at the R12 for a couple different reasons. uh a couple years ago, particularly when House Bill 242 came through about secondary water and the requirements of the all communities within the city or all communities in the state to become compliant with metered water, metered secondary water. The concern was we're out of resources. We don't have water. That specifically addresses the RUI, which is a residential unit of irrigation. When you put a secondary water, a home with secondary, you get you only consume a.33 credit. If you have a home that only has your has culinary water, it consumes a credit at a rate of one. So by adding secondary water, you could effectively triple the size of the city. My concern is also echoed by other members of this that have already spoken. We are on track to exceed our 2000 our 2050 growth plan. That means we are growing faster than we would like. I don't understand why we are continuing to push the throttle and to grow the city at increased densities than what's already in the plan. This has already been voted down multiple times. It's been punted from

this committee here. It was also punted and voted down from the city council. Yet here we are again a third time. Our votes and our voices should be compounded. Yeah, there might only be a handful of us here today. How many were here last time? How many were here the time before? It's as if this committee feels like if you stall long enough, you don't have to listen to the people. And that's my concern. Don't change the density. Just leave it as is. Thank you. My name is Lisa Christensen and I just have one really brief comment and that is putting the high density on the fringe of the city um creates an infrastructure lag and the current land use plan advises keeping high density in near the urban part of the city near the urban hub. And this area is on the fringe of the city. And that's that was one of my concerns as well. All right. I'm Molly Teasdale. I live up on the hill. Um, I just have a few things. I've heard five or so words that have been repeated in these meetings. Um, easiest solution and easiest route. Just because it's easiest doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Second, quantify. I've heard that word plenty of times in here as well. Um, we want it to be quality, not quantity up there. We already are struggling for safety just

on that one street. So, um, quality is is kind of where we're at. Um, and minimum requirements has also been said repeated multiple times a year. Why go for the minimum when you can reach this much higher? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Um, that being said, uh, as far as safety goes for the kids, um, with the traffic that is already on the streets, you're also going to be adding construction traffic. How are you going to keep everybody safe from that? Especially with the speed limit is 40 miles hour. It's kind of It's already scary. Um, that's pretty much it. And, uh, just just keeping the integrity of everything on that hill as is. I know that there's a water shortage. If a fire breaks out while construction's happening, what are you going to do? Where are you going to get that water? Anyways, um, that's that's pretty much it for me. I'm not against the growth. I just want you guys to do it the right way. Period. Thanks. Anyone else? I have a a different perspective. My name is Marishia Menlov and I'm a property owner. I my family lives here in Tree Mountain and I'm all about sustainable growth and planned unit development, planned growth, planned for the future. I have four kids. I wonder how they're going to afford a place to live. A lot of the people that we've heard from, I don't know what they paid for their houses, but they probably they bought them a long time ago. So, their mortgage may be $250,

$300,000 a year. What can you buy for $300,000 a year now? It's really hard. It's really hard to recreate what is there without creating a million-doll house that's unattainable for my kids. I want my kids to be able to live here, to grow here. I want my nieces and nephews to come here. I want my siblings to come here. And through planned unit growth development, when the city has a plan of sustainable growth, developers can come in and help repair some of the infrastructure costs that maybe they lack. A city gets money from taxpayers and from developers from sales tax. So I look at some of the city problems and ask the developers what what can how can you solve some of these problems? How can you solve some of the problems on the hill? The road is dangerous. Okay, can you widen the road? How close are you to a freeway entrance and exit? Ask some of those questions as you're thinking about this development because this development brings easy access to the freeway. It's going to solve some sewer issues. It's going to solve some water pressure issues that are currently on the hill. Um, and you know, I I would assume that a lot of the kids that grew up on Radio Hill would love to live by their parents someday, and this would provide a product that's attainable and sustainable for them. Thank you. My name is Debbie Bratner and um I've lived here most of my life. That's been a long time. Um, I have four children and only one out of them still lives here. So, I don't really see where that's really a problem

worrying about where children are going to live. Um, I really wasn't going to get up here, but um, I saw something on Fox 13 News right before I got here and it was talking about the water issue and it says that, you know, of course we live in a desert and it said something about that because we don't get much rain here and we haven't for a while that our dirt is in dire need. So we keep building here which is taking on more water. So they're telling us conserve water. Okay. So we conserve water. Then we tell the farmers not to w you know not to use so much water. We're taking the water away because we're building so much. Well, we need the farmers to water because how are we going to eat? What are we going to eat if we don't have the farmers? But then, hey, we need it because we're building all these darn houses so that not our kids live here, but so people from other towns and states move here. I don't agree with that. So, I think we need to slow down the flow of building, take care of ourselves, take care of our dirt by what channel 13 says we need to do, and um let's take care of who already lives here. last call.

Okay. I don't know how much she had left you that allowed. It's like 15 seconds.

You're fine. You're fine. My name's Lisa Christensen again and I just want to to give you some input from my perspective of my kids living here. We can even bribe our kids and giving them property and they won't live here because we don't have anything in we don't have enough in Tremont to draw them here. They have to drive to Logan other places to fulfill what they want. So I would like to see you focus more on bringing the businesses the things in here that will bring my kids back here. But as of now, that's not where they want to be. Okay, I think we're closing public comments for today, unless I see anybody stand up. And we're on to item number four, the approval of minutes for August 12th, 2025. I have not seen them. But did you send them today?

She she sent them four days ago, but I didn't get a chance to read them either. Maybe I did then and I missed it because I You weren't here. It was the one that you weren't here for. Okay. Well, I can abstain from voting because I don't know that what happened happened. You didn't tune in on I meant to. I read them because I was out of town on the 12th, so I wanted to make sure I caught up. So, I did read them. Okay, good job. I Yeah, I'll claim that I'm not awesome today. Anybody else though? Are you We all good? Yeah. Okay. Motion to approve the minutes for August 12th, 2025. I'll second. Um the vote to approve the minutes if

All in favor. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. And I mean yes. Okay. new business um discussion and consideration of the overlook development reszone. What we've been talking about already today. Yes. Would you like to help us out, Jeff? Yeah. So, uh Chris and Seth are both here. Chris is the um civil engineer with um and Seth is representing Link Construction who are the developers with the project. Um we have a you might pull out the concept. The reason

Oh, no. That's the industrial reone. Sorry. Is there template? Did it on. There it is. That one. No, I thought I saved the concept. That's it. Isn't that the one we're talking? Okay. So, I'm assuming we want to hear from the people that are here to inform us concept to come up. Okay.

Okay.

This is the sorry my phone. Um the overlook resome came through um and we've been working with them to help cover a lot of the capital capital infrastructure needs that are on the hill between water supply um deadend roads and deadend water uh lines along with um you know 1000 north that the city's uh been planning on improving but we're working on um there's there's some infrastructure needs as we've heard through the public comments. So, uh we've worked with them and we've had discussions about partnering together to to solve those issues. Um they've expressed interest in utilizing the the planned unit development um code that we worked through last I'm just going to ballpark last year. Um, and so their plan is to take the the base density for R110 and put um work on clustering some of the denser units down by the road. And and those large green squares you see in the top right corner um are all R1 or all single family lots. So I think they were 10,000 square feet, Chris.

Yeah. Um and so the gradation is to have I think this this is four total product types in these 80 it's 80 acres right 86 acres

um to help diversify some of the housing products we see in Tmont and and bring products that have had success in Davis and Weber counties here to to help just diversify what our housing market here in Tmont has to offer. Um the plan is that that road F up along the top would eventually go over and and it's master plan that that would kind of be an arc arked road over both the country view and the Valley view estate developments to tie in all of the the stub roads for now. Um and and at least be able to give a give some options for transport for uh connectivity up on the hill. So um we've I'm happy to open up. Chris, do you have any comments before I open up to questions from the planning commission?

Um, no. Just just a couple things just to throw out there just to kind of go over with you guys. Um, the difference between an R10 and R12 zoning is it's 95 units.

Um, that's the difference in in the density. Um, the couple things I just like to point out is that we are doing a 3.27 27 acre park and also um there's 12 acres of open space with trails in here. So 18% of this project is open space. Um we tried to do the centralized park in the middle. The red line that you guys see going kind of on an angle through here, that red line is the serviceability for the water current,

the pressure So this red line here,

that's with working with your engineer. That's where it it's currently serviceable. So this would be where we start our phase one. And so as far as the construction issue or concern, they'll do an access down at the bottom that all the construction will come up from there. So phase one would come down in this area. the first few phases. And then just like I said, like there's open space coming up through here. We're buffering these existing homes here with open space and with larger lots on top.

Can you show Oh, yeah. Don't know how to do that, but we'll try. So, these lots here were put in single family homes, larger lots, and then open space corridor here to buffer these homes. the phase one, the this road will be built first. So, we'll start at the bottom corner and work our way up. When we get up to where the water tank has to go in, um the developer is working with the neighboring property owner to put the water tank in uh to service not just this project, but to service the area. He's going to build a reservoir for secondary water that will service this area as well as improve the city's water system. And sewer is here at this intersection. So, we'll be bringing sew bringing sewer down 1000 north with improvements 1000 north so that we can sew the project. I miss anything?

Nope. than just other infrastructure on 1000 that we've been talking about. Yeah. So ultimately to to meet the pressure demand not just for this project but ultimately the tank would then provide the missing pressure the to meet once you go across the red line. Yes. Yeah. And we can't Pat can't build above the red line until that that takes. Right. Right. What is the density of the first phase? I mean, what are what are those units that are I

um these are town homes. The overall density is the what's in your zone. The overall density with the R110 is 6 and a half units per acre. So overall, um these down here would be a town home unit. These would be they call these uh what do we call those? Six. Six packs. So they have a shared drive in the middle. So you don't have six driveways coming out on a main road. Then these six homes access that private drive that goes down the middle. Um, and then these up on top, those are a twin home concept. Those orange ones.

Uhhuh. Yeah, the orange ones. And so what we're trying to do is transition it down, but um Jeff wanted the types mixed. So that's why you've got pockets of different types of units and then the town homes would be down in the first phase phase of the corner. You know, those six-packs, are they connected homes or they have space in between? Similar to like the the new Archabald area, which smaller lots,

cottage lots. And what the 95 units helps the developer do is spread the cost of the water tank, the reservoir for secondary water, running the sewer line, improvements 10,00 north. We're trying to make these a product that's attainable, not not some if you fill it up with 12,000 square foot lots, then you'll lose the open space, you'll lose the park, and it'll just be a subdivision. Um the the one part two just those six-pack lots for clarification, those are the size of the homes that are actually in the Archbald Estates, not the new ones that Visionary building. Those lots are match the footprint of what's been completed in Archbald. So they're about six to 7,000 square foot lots. Um which I mean those are those are still pretty I mean those those lots will probably go for high four low 500,000. So I mean that's for

so the size the side easements are a total of about how much on those? Um with the PD ordinance now I think we got the that it's um was it 6 feet? Um I think it was 16 ft total. So I think we did you can break it up is like an eight or a six and a 10 or something. But yeah, we didn't want to get them so tight that you you know share rutters. But we might be getting there, too. Just observable trends from Salt Lake, Davis, and Weber counties. Apparently, rain gutters have got to start getting a little bit closer.

I like that six-pack concept. I uh I've been It's on my list of things to read to strong towns. Have you read that book? Okay. So, it's it's like the idea of like smaller towns that have that are growing now, right? And it's like kind of like we've done with Main Street of like repurposing the buildings that we have rather than building new buildings for small businesses and things like that. Um, and one of the main things that she talks about is the the idea of like being able to have bike paths and walking paths and things like that rather than just having big roadways for everyone to walk on, but being able to like with her son, whatever the girl who wrote the book, she wants to be able to walk around with him on his little bike and not have to worry about getting hit in a driveway or things like that. So, I love the idea of that six-pack lot because then you're having all of that walkability without having to worry about a driveway at each spot. You know what I mean? That you're not like that's my neighborhood. Everybody's got a driveway that you're make sure you look both ways before you go and pass anybody's driveway.

Well, and with this one too, by combining the driveways, you've actually created a pretty nice hardscape area where kids could go and play together. So with the other five neighbors to to have kind of a a spot where they aren't on the sidewalk um also creates a lot everybody has their circle so much mural room for sidewalk chalk, you know, like well even just like safety wise like that just is really nice to not have to worry about those

when it gives you 24 ft of asphalt surface or concrete. So it's basically each one of those is like having a culde-sac except the city doesn't have to maintain a culde-sac. So it's like having your own private culde-sac but the cost for the city drops drastically because maintaining and plowing and upkeep of a culde-sac and 100 foot radius of or 50 foot radius of asphalt to maintain for your future. That's the way development is going is to keep the maintenance reasonable for the city but yet getting home ownership privacy safety so that just think culde-sac you don't see a culde-sac on here but yet there's several of them and so that's why master planning this way creates safety and I mean you nailed it you hit the nail on the head with safety with trails with not having to if you've got a you know 70 foot driveway with 24 feet wide and you have six people driving up and down it and it's all your neighbors. You're not worried about kids speeding on it or danger or anything happening. So, it gives you that runway for kids to play on and it's a great selling. And again, like I said, it keeps the the maintenance, you know, in 25 years and the city has to come in and redo those asphalt roads. This is way cheaper than doing it the oldfashioned way with culde-sac with larger wide wide big asphalt that's going to cost a lot of money when you have to go fix that. Plus, we've been able to put the we're trying to put structure the density so it comes out and goes to the freeway.

Yeah.

So, we want to keep it so you're not keeping density in a certain area where they're coming all the way through the streets. It keeps the maintenance down on the streets. to keep. So with master planning stuff like this, we're trying to you really really flow and that's one thing Reeves is really good at is we do flow of the streets. How is it going to get the traffic out so it's not impacting the city streets? And the location of this is the perfect place for density because you've got your 100 yards, 200 yards from an on-ramp. So people get in and out on and off. you can have the majority of these people wherever they're working, they come in to work and then they have still have the ability to go into town and so it really keeps the maintenance down. Um, and this is where the growth should happen on a hillside, not necessarily in farm ground, but it's the perfect area for growth to be designed to go. So, with some of the concerns of traffic, uh, where does is the current ending of the newly widened road widened road on this map?

Not quite.

Okay. So, it's further to the east. Um, so will, as part of this development, will that w road be widened to at least the size of the current widening um between there and that inlet. We'll work with I mean Pat and Chris have both been open to trying to to do this because they have so much um so many utilities to go. We'll probably end up with some kind of cost sharing. Um we by state code we we can only really enforce them to improve and widen their frontage up to the standards of a thousand north. But because the project is in such demand, the city will work with Pat in some way to to widen that road from where the improvements ended all the way to their west property line.

And this west property line, you mentioned 100 yards to the exit. I'm just guessing. I mean, how far is it actually to the exit, the exit on I 84? It's not. Probably like a ten I mean, it might be a tenth of a mile. Like after that, it goes a little bit and then just bends into UD do. Yeah. Then there's the road shed there on the right. Yeah, it's a little So if you pull it, so yeah, you can see their property line is just a little bit east of where that road starts going up. And so you can see it's it's not much further to get to the roadway or to the interchange. Um, so

thanks. And then with the parks and the trails, that's open to the public as well. It's not a private, it's not like an HOA owns it, maintains it in the public other um, can I direct? A lot of times I can't talk. I'm not supposed to ask. We're at Tmont and it's fine. Repeat, please. Please say this louder. Eraser. We will repeat it if you don't. So, we would love for you to repeat it. I was just saying that the parks and the trails are open to the public, not it's not a HOA private entity. It's not That was a question I had. Oh, okay. Perfect. I guess based on that, is it a is it an HOA maintained or a city maintained?

City maintained. the HOA maintains the entrance, all the other stuff going in and all of the town homes. Yeah. So, one of the targets that we had with the PUB was we put language in there that if if it the HOA wants to have it that they need to fence it and and sign it to show that it is I know it was a big discussion. I remember that's why I'm asking the question because in my mind I just didn't want it to be where the HOA maintains it but then the public can use it because I just we'll maintain all around it. The HOA will maintain the entryway and all the stuff for the towns, but the rest of it will not be maintained private. It will be public.

Yeah. And we'll work with them on trying to to really cluster all of that open space together as much as we can. So, it makes sense for the city to have it and maintain it as a park. So, if you were to guess how much might the HOA fee be with one of these, like really low to the point where Yeah. If you were to guess like some $35 something somebody could afford probably between 35 and 45 depending on what the cost was for private road snow removal. So we just have to so that runs that for the first year and actually funds it

and then we we're able to go back and say okay this was how much it costs you divide it by per door and then you can you know then you attain what those fees but we don't have like there's not a pool there's not very expensive stuff so it's just the minimal requirements to keep because we do want to keep that's our biggest goal is is we say the word attainable not affordable right now we're getting attainable able housing. So, for example, if you have a homeowner that owns a home or you have a homeowner that rents a home, same income, same person, same just take two scenarios. One person owns and one person rents. So, the homeowner who has ownership, their net worth is around $396,000. The homeowner who rents, their net worth is around $10,000. Same income, same lifestyle. This was a study put out by the state in 2022. So, we're trying to get attainable housing where you can buy a house for basically the same price you're renting it. But if we can't get attainable housing that people are going to be stuck in renting. This is what the state's been working. We're trying to this development will allow us to do the guidelines and the requirement that state is putting in order to meet those requirements for attainable housing. We'll be able to get help people get their down payments down. They get bonuses. Not as a developer. I don't.

So that they can come in and attain and buy these homes and become home owner homeowners. So, say if we did 200 homes that we were able to get people into buy instead of rent, that's changing the net worth of 200 people by $400,000. That's huge. And that's not just me saying that's what the state is putting out. So, this is what we need to do. I think that right there is the um someone mentioned in their comments the external pressures that we as a planning commission have. Our only external pressure is wanting to build people in Tremont and build their net worth. We want people to be able to have a house in Tremont. Like

exactly I in my personal situation I am 31 years old. If I had not bought a house in 2016 when I did, I would still be renting a house and I would be paying more than my mortgage and

and that's not okay, right? Like I don't want that for my peers. I don't want that for my kids' friends. I want them to be able to have a house to live in. And that's right there is why that's the external pressure that we as a planning commission have. It's not really external. It's it's us wanting to build a better life for the people here in town. If you don't do master plan building like this, if you just go back to the old I've been developing for 28 years. We used to develop straight line subdivision, all quarteracre lots, all halfacre lots, that doesn't work anymore. You can't do that. One, the maintenance is so expensive. Tmont's feeling that right now. How much your roads cost, how wide the roads are,

it didn't matter back in the day. Now stuff is 10 times more expensive. And the the problem is again you nailed it right on the head is do you want your kids to live here? Do you want your kids to live in the wonderful city of Tmont? If you don't do master planning like this they won't be able to live here. They won't be able they won't afford to live here. They can live downtown Ogden. That's what they can afford.

And like what you were saying we have seen the statistics on what people make when they live here. And it's not like I can understand what everybody in the comments are saying. Um, my son just got his very first job out of college. He's ecstatic. He's making 65,000 a year. And so this would be what he could do. Um but that being said, we are I I think with her comment as well, we talk about chickens and eggs and people who are living here and then the development of places for people to work to get better jobs and you know afford more as well. Um but this would provide them to be able to get something bigger, better as they moved up as well. Yeah,

I think just like that, how many people how many of our small businesses that are on Main Street are from people who have moved to Tmont in the last 10 years who have now started businesses here in town and are bringing in sales tax and these other things that they're not building new buildings, right? They're not they're not saying, "Oh, we're going to develop these new big buildings to have our our business in. We're going to utilize this downtown space and revitalize it to be able to be a successful downtown. I think a lot of the companies that are now on Main Street are from people who either moved back to Tremont to do those things or didn't come from here in the first place and moved here to develop those things. I think that's important to realize, too. That's like those are the people that are going to build Tremont and keep building it and growing it.

I have a few questions. Did anybody of the planning commission call you and tell you to come and develop this property on the planning commission? Yeah. Like any of us? Definitely. No. Well, because what I think people like get this confusion like that we like go out and like try to grow the city. You know what I mean? And Oh, I've heard that a lot. and we do not and we that's not our function at all. I just wanted to make sure that it was clear. Can you help us understand some of the costs of what it's going to cost you to put in a water tank, the park, the improvements that are going to benefit the neighboring residents? So, if the average what we now unfortunately in order to put a water tank in, we estimate $2 per gallon.

Holy That's what it is now. Oh my god. That's not what it used to be. That is what it is now. How big and how big of a tank are you proposing? Million gallon tank. And then you got to bring the surge charge line from the old tank. Don't forget the PRV.

Yeah. And and so you bring the pump that we have to pump it up to the tank from the tank that exists. Then you got to bring the line down and then you're so high you get so much head pressure you have to put a PRV in. Pressure reducer valve. That's several hundred,000 not not including the line you have to put in. And then it has so much head pressure that usually you can't just do one PRV because if that breaks if you get your a normal home their max PRV pressure reduced valve in their home is 75 PSI. If you go to 85 PSI your faucets they'll all break. Your shower heads they can't control they can't handle it. People don't understand why it's so important to have the PRV in their house because you get influxes in your water line. It can jump up to 150, 180 pounds sometimes. And so you have valve checks inside your house, inside your water meter, all the protects that if you if you didn't, especially the water tank being so high. That's anyway, I'm getting way into technical stuff, but but that's was just to put a water tank in. That's not including the sewer. We're increasing the other. And the water tank is not just to help what is what new stuff I'm going to put in. That's for what's existing right now. The water pressure is dropping. It's not it's very I'm not meaning to offend anybody, but it's just is inadequate as it exits right now.

And I only know that because people have told us, yeah, that was one of the main concerns people had was that they don't have enough water pressure on the hill right now. So, it's going to cost about three and a half to$4 million before I even get to my subdivision. And so if we don't have doors or density to cover that,

it makes it really really impossible. Then I go meet with Jeff. Instead of saying, "Hey, let's make this doable for everybody." It's, "Well, this is what we can put in. Sorry, deal with it or not." And that's what's going to happen because Great question. You did not call me and ask me to come here. What brought me here? I I live in Weaver County. I didn't need to come up here. I have a lot of subdivisions in Weaver County, but what brought me up here is the demand. The growth is coming. The buyers want to be here. They're coming to Tremont. As a developer, I'm It's not build it and they will come.

It's they want it and I'm going to come. So, if we don't do master plan communities, as soon as anybody sells a subdivision in Tmont, it's going to go what's whatever's planned. Somebody will build it. somebody will buy it because there's buyers here right now. If you don't plan correctly, you're going to get subdivisions. I'm sure you've all been in subdivision. You're like, "How in the heck do I get out of here? What?" That's poor planning. That's just developers who don't do when we master plan something, we look towards the we act like we own the entire area and we master plan for everything. We do connectivity of roads, connectivity of trails, we do all the infrastructure builds that we need. we put all of these big it's it's it's very complicated and that's why I have really really smart people that work for me and and that's how we put these big plans together and I'm not knocking other developers do not get me wrong I don't mean that but when they come in and and a landowner sells a piece of ground and say hey come buy my five acres my they don't think like we think they think I have five acres I can get quarter acre lots boom I'm going to put would be five acres quarteracre gloves. Four is 20 - 10%. You get six 17 lots out of that. How am I going to put them on here? What's the cheapest thing I can do? They're not going to care about anything else. And at 5 acres, it's not enough to work with Jeff to put your infrastructure in. You're stuck. And you just got new houses all square. It's not going to make your land use better. It's not making your your um streets better. It's not doing. And that's what's going to happen because developing is development is coming. Growth is coming. I didn't do it. I'm not the mean guy that's bringing the bad guys with me. Growth is here. Just like everybody who didn't used to live in Tmont. The growth came. Some developer built their house. And quick real quick story. I know I talk a lot, but I developed a

subdivision and I fought. Everybody came in screaming, "You not in my backyard. Don't develop here. Don't develop here." And so I developed it. We got it done the first phase. About six years later, I came to do the second phase. of the ground behind. Half the people that I built their house got up and yelled and screamed at me for bringing in more development. I was like, I did the same thing for you guys. And if I didn't, you wouldn't be here. But people forget that. It's not in my backyard. It's not I came here, you shut the doors for development. Well, in a city, if you don't have growth, a city is like a shark. shark. If it sits still, it dies. If a city doesn't have growth, it dies. It can't afford to continue. You can't get new commercial. Commercial is what provides a city with their tax base. That's how they pay for the roads. If you're not getting new homes or new growth coming in, a city will die. I can give you 10 examples that cities die and they go bankrupt. And that's no fun. Then nobody wants to live there. And then industries leave, businesses leave instead of businesses coming. But if you don't do smart planned growth, then you're going to get the growth, but in a horrible way that nobody wants anyway. So the growth is coming. I promise you, it's coming. It's here. It's not coming. It's here. And again, developers don't come in and if we build it, we hope they come. We don't go invest $50 million and gosh, I hope it comes. We do it because we know it's here. It's here. Good or bad, it's here. Let's do it the right way. Well, the thing I learned through this whole process is that all of the people that spoke, all of their homes and subdivisions are what caused these problems,

unfortunately. and uh like the traffic and the water pressure and all those things the the fire risk all that was caused by all the people who already came in technically. This actually is a solution that we wanted when we put the PUB in place by allowing open space and parks and walking trails and all the cool things. And he's essentially going to pay to fix all of the problems that you guys have had. water pressure. Like from a fire perspective, if he puts a million gallon tank up there and our pressure goes from 20 to whatever 70 or whatever the max is, I'm sure our fire protection is a thousand% better than we currently are. Yes,

by far. What did we have a developer that developed all the rest of Radio Hill up there with these other culde-sacs and things? I think there were a few of them. There was multiple my understanding.

Yeah. The question is too is I mean I I'm going to read through this. Um we know that there are sol problems that need to be solved that these guys are willing to solve for us. I I can honestly say that I'm not like I lived in an area that had this kind of housing. I don't know why it wasn't my favorite. Like I think it functioned very well for those for those people. It wasn't what I wanted to live in. Um, I didn't mind like it it still was very clean. It was still very walkable. It was a lot of things. I mean, I think that there's a lot of things that are going to be hard about getting used to this visual for us in this community because most of us moved here for a visual. Like, I love the visual I currently have. And it's gonna be really uncomfortable. Like, it feels like Pleasantville or something with I mean, you know what I'm talking about. black and white that we're living in these little but I mean it is a solution. My question and I'm I'm not actually asking anybody to answer this but maybe afterwards we can talk about this. when you guys had these meetings about the keeping the zoning the way it is. If we ask these developers to reconfigure this whole thing, which I'm sure would cause a lot of money with the current R1 or the R12, what we

R12,

um, they wouldn't be able to afford to do what we're asking them to do as a city. Maybe they'd break even enough to make it make sense. But do we have a plan as citizens? Like if I vote and say no, I need this to to say what I'm listening to everybody else for. Do we have a plan to fix the problems and still assess what they want because they bought that land and they want to use it? So, if if we want to listen to you guys and take what you're saying, we need some solutions, too. Um, because I can't tell these guys know if they're bringing some solutions in my mind that even everybody needs, and it still doesn't sit incredibly well with me. But

yeah, I I understand what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and I would say this, too. The 6 and a half units an acre that this covers is really close to the density that the Archabald Estates is the visionary just finished up. And those two areas on our integrated land use plan are the same our plan to be the same type of the low to medium density housing. So with regard to the to this not being in the plan, it really is like six and a half units per acre. That's a very on par with some of the master plan developments we're having right now in Tmont.

And uh with the traffic master plan from 2025, uh it is planned for 10,000 to have that much traffic. There has been traffic studies done with that area and it is already It has from the state I guess does the traffic master plan on that state. We worked with wall consultant group to to update that but they used a lot of view dots modeling standards to to make that and update those different versions that you see through the plan. Yeah.

And believe it or not, we actually do our own traffic studies too because the last thing I want to do is come build something like this and then we have a bottleneck and everybody hates it. So we've done our own traffic studies and it's a great location for it. We wouldn't come and invest and do all this even try if our traffic study says no. So, we've got about I don't know $300,000 invested in this project just to make sure it's something we want to do because if we're not going to come in here and do it if it's doesn't flow right or if it doesn't meet or if it doesn't, you know, so many different things have to work and flow and and go to or I have to fix them. You know, I don't just walk away. It's like, "Oh, well, I need to fix this. Oh, I need to fix this or I need to fix this." You know, so there's different things. But we did already do our own traffic study because it's great to use other people's traffic study, but if they're wrong, I just banked a lot of money on their knowledge. Instead, I want my own. So, I'm just concurring with you with an actual traffic study that we did. So,

perfect. Well, I was talking to an engineer earlier and they told me that there's multiple roads that they've dealt with throughout the state that they have a two-lane road that runs 50,000 cars a day. So, the roads are capable if they're properly adequately sized and maintained. It's not I mean, we're not even clo we're not even in the park of a traffic problem in Micah's opinion just because that's my Travis City said the same thing. Yeah. I mean, we're not even we're not even on the map of a problem with traffic, you know. And we do understand that as parents we understand that having kids and buses and all that that is different than necessarily the uh numbers on a paper saying that traffic is okay.

Sure. But as far as like road capacity is what I'm talking about, you know. Well, I think if the shoulders were improved a bit, I mean the shoulders on that road from the current improvement to the exit at the the freeway freeway is kind of bad, you know. So if the the roads were at least improved with better shoulders that would help

walk you know to address the there was an issue brought up about safety and I currently work for the transportation department of the school district and one of the challenges we have in that area is not enough ingress and egress for transportation and that's why the students come down to the highway come down to 10th north to meet the bus because we can't get in and out of there. And this would solve that problem. That would enable transportation to bring buses up into that development and get the students closer to buses. Right now, the state guideline is students can be up to secondary students up to two miles away from their bus stop. Um, a mile and a half for elementary students. And so, but the challenge we so we we want to come up in there, but we need better

Yeah. better ability to get in and out. Uh, and right now that's not available. So, this is one thing that I think would improve safety with the students because we'd be able to improve transportation to the schools. The big final question I have, what's the difference in the plan for the R112 plan of what you could do versus the R110? Meaning if we were to approve this, you know, what benefits to the community, the neighboring, the city, the everybody can you bring or you plan to bring different than what you can afford to bring if we don't approve it? Does that make sense?

Great question. Yeah, that's a really really good question. Um, so we would take out the open space, we'd take out the trails, um, and we would be 96 doors less. And so any demand, not demands, that was the wrong word. Any requests other than what I have to legally put in, we wouldn't do one. We wouldn't do anything else besides our frontage, what we own, and that's it. So the difference is the PUD concessions basically. Is that right? Partly some of them. Yeah, a point system. Would you Can they still use the PUD on the R12? They can. They can, but they just won't get as much.

You just you you start hitting minimums. What's the minimum open space? Here you go. What's the minimum? Because so much of this project is having to cover so much infrastructure costs that you're going to start designing what we were hoping to get out of the PUB down to the minimums. Um, so we might have the open space, but like the pickleball courts, pavilions, and all those features that they're showing and and willing to help put in disappear and you get a nice long uh lawn.

Well, and there's different open spaces that we can do. So, we cut back. We we do what's called cluster. We cluster all the building to one area and we leave big huge open spaces like a nice little retention basin that just has all the grass that dies and it puddles everything wonderful and there's so many mosquitoes that live there. Cool stuff that's not as nice and it just affects the uh as much as we can. We'll still do it but it's just not not aesthetically pleasing.

Correct. And and it doesn't we we can't return as much benefit to the city. That's just where it becomes the problem. And it's it's just math. It's it's all it is. It's just math for us. What can we sell each lot for at the end? Our margin my margins are the same. And so it's how much do we sell the lots for? How much because I have, you know, I have investors I have to meet. I have performers I have to meet. It's all just a mathematical calculation. And so we put it in and what can we spit out at the end? And so it just gets reduced. When you did the traffic study, if you're all the way done with everything, did it say that there would be any backup on I-15 as you're coming off the freeway? Like if at the end of the day, do you know what I mean? Like, you know how you have to slow down really quick to

So, I think our traffic study is like 62 pages or something. I look at the last page. It says, "Is this really good or bad?"

So, it said good summary. I read the summary. Like I have a geotech that we do on every single project. We do on this one. I think we did 26 holes. I don't read every single one. I look at it says, "Can I put a footing and foundation in? What size do I have to put in? And can I do basement?" So I have every piece and I will gladly look it up for you, but I would hate to tell you the wrong thing. But it was it was on a scale of one to 100 and 100 being the worst. It was way way down here. was not even it wasn't even a concern to be honest with you. So I apologize but I could look at that and get you more answers. Like I said it's 60some pages. I don't know. It might it might bother me 50 years from now but okay.

So I think one thing I'm thinking um my read all 62 pages.

No no not at all. No. Um, so my sister lives in Rexburg, right, right outside of Rexburg. They their county is building this nice, beautiful development right behind them. She lives, she has horses, they have pigs, they have all these wonderful things on this lots that they have. And the development that is coming in, it's a it's with the county because it's not part of Rexburg City. So, they don't have to have as much regulations and things like that. They're coming in. They're building this big pond for the water and it's going to be right by her house. And they went to every single planning meeting and every single city council meeting and they for months asked for things not to happen because they don't think that it's going to be the best thing for their neighborhood and it's not really what they want next to their property, right? But ultimately it passed, right? And they're now building this lot, right? And now she has neighbor friends that are building houses in this neighborhood right next to her and she's actually really excited about it, right? But for a long time she really opposed this and didn't want it to happen and she still doesn't really think it's going to be the best thing. But overall the county and all the planning commissions and all these things, they went through and said, "You know what? This is going to benefit a lot of people to build these houses here. And it might not feel like it's the best thing for you right now, but ultimately this is what's going to benefit the county, right? And so I see you guys here every single week, every other week, whatever. And I know that's also what you're feeling, right? She's my sister, obviously. I I get that. I have heard her complaining about this. And like I understand how much it sucks. But I also as someone up here looking at this saying I'm a volunteer trying to choose what I think and what my family and what other friends and people that I have here in this town are what they want for

this city and what they want for growth and for our families and things. And for the hundred and so people more that that can become homeowners through this by changing the zoning and by allowing that growth and that um what did you call it? Their net worth to grow by so much just by becoming homeowners. Like to me that is so worth it. And I understand how hard that is. I understand that it's hard to not feel like your voice is being heard and I'm really sorry, but I also think that as a planning commission, we are here to make the to help make recommendations to the city council that we think are best for the entire city, not just for the 10, 15 people that come every week. So, I'm really sorry that you guys feel like we're not listening, but I also want you to understand that like we are trying our best and there are how many other people in this city that are not here every week that want to buy houses, right? I have friends who want to buy houses that cannot afford houses because there's no affordable housing for them to buy because houses are sold like that that they want. Um, so I'm that's my thoughts. Just want to let you know I get it. I understand. I really do. But I also think that this is what is best. Well, in my opinion too is that we have kicked this can a lot of times at this point at least. I mean, I assume that everybody has felt that way as well. Do we feel like we've got all the information that we feel like we can derive from this situation other than potentially reading this over the next two weeks?

I think even with reading this over, it won't change it. It's not going to change my decision. Um, and I mean, we we're all we are doing is recommending to the city council and they get to ultimately make the decision

and we'll see. Maybe they will wait until after the election to make the decision. Then it'll be somebody else's problem. Yeah. And that's where I'm caught right now is because I feel like my due diligence is to read this, but I do feel like we have talked about this over a lot of commission meetings at this point. And so I guess I will say this. Um, who would like to approve? I will make a motion to approve the zoning changes of overlook development z reszone or the overlook development reszone from R12 to R10.

Okay. Would somebody like to second it? I'll second it. Okay. If I can vote. Yeah. So, we are now voting about the rezone of overlook development. If you would like to continue with Is this right? Um, yeah. What are favor? Yeah. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Any opposed? Any opposed? Seeing none, motion carries. Seeing none, motion carries. Thank you, Micah. No problem. Someday.

I've done it. I wanted to make a comment. It's kind of weird, but I had another idea. It could potentially be possible to work out a special improvement district to offset the costs of said developer by burdening the neighboring subdivisions who caused part of the burden. And no, I'm serious because maybe he's willing to trade density and say, "Hey, if I don't have to fix all of these costs and problems that were partly, if not all, caused by the neighbors that maybe it would actually be a thing where it's a win-win if they can help the costs and the city doesn't have to pay for it. Then that he can remove density and still make it a project that would still fly.

We're charging 50% more on our taxes." Well, that's that's what a that's what a special improvement district is essentially. charge of the just an idea. Just an idea. Why was it us and not the city who approved the development? Why was it our fault? Can't talk about that right now. We got to move on. I'm just saying it's a conversation for you guys to have outside of this room. We can't do it, but you guys can. In other words, this is a motion like this is an idea that you had as a solution to this problem that could be talked about between now and the time that the city council approves it. Well, and at least have the conversation if the city was even to have that convers if the city was even willing to entertain such that conversation.

But I mean like the fire issues, the access, the roadways, the safety, all these things, the water pressure, you know, are really not just solely his problem necessarily, but he's willing to fix it. And that's the easy like approach for the city. But another approach could be to do something of that nature. I don't know. And then it could be determined who was burdened with that.

Well, yeah, because they can go back and see who put it all in and how it was supposed to have gone because in theory, if it was done correctly, we shouldn't have any of these problems, you know, in theory. But I think it's like he mentioned when you have a little development and then you have a little phase and then a little phase and a little phase, pretty soon you get in and you're like, "Oh crap, we got like 80 homes off of a single entrance and what's bucket that had a problem when there was a gas leak." You know what I mean? I mean, there's all these safety concerns, which I appreciate everybody bringing up because in my mind, it's actually much worse than I anticipated and is actually more critical that we do it because all these issues are much more critical now that we've been aware of them that we didn't even notice previously,

especially because we're not living there and suffering with any of the water problems. True. But just an idea. Okay. Well, at least it's been spoken that that's a solution. may not be a fun one. Um, okay. Um, 5B, discussion and considerations of chapter 1.08, commercial industrial zones. Woo! Guys, we got to it. We got to it. We have 20 minutes. All right. Ready? Hey, thank you guys. Thank you so much. Thank we really appreciate you guys coming and explaining all of this to us and helping us see it all.

You guys want this to hit? I actually would like to hit Micah with it. Can I have it to hit Mic? That would be awesome.

Okay. What are the changes for this commercial zone stuff?

So, all these changes are focused on the industrial districts. Um, we've talked about this talked about this on and off for a few months, but other pressing matters have continued to come up. So, what I've done is there were a few different drafts and I um was able to combine them all into this one. So, everything that is red is a potential change. Um I don't really want to go through them one by one, but we can get to highlighting them at least. So, as we go down a little further, we're changing um no up to big all the big red paragraphs. We were just changing some of the we're changing how the zones are defined. And we really wanted this in terms of a a flexindustrial business park so that you could have um a kind of a hybrid between commercial and industrial uses. Those have they've become quite popular through um through the Wasash front honestly where you've you've got an office space in front but there's enough room and and in the back of the shop to have some kind of packaging or kitting or some kind of of manufacturing light assembly type work. Um, these are not the type of businesses though that get the freight traffic normally associated with industrial. And so they're honestly a good spot where you can get some startup businesses that maybe need to be doing some 3D printing, but they don't have the noise or air quality of heavy industrial. So that's the flex industrial business park space. Um, light manufacturing and distribution. we start getting into a little bit heavier work where we have some conditional uses in that start saying, "Okay, we're okay if if you're producing, we're okay if

you're doing some some traditional industrial work, but there's going to have to be some conditions set forth mainly because of the zoning that's you're adjacent to. um that you're adjacent to maybe some existing neighborhoods, maybe you're adjacent to heavy commercial area and we don't need, you know, the the biggest Acme industrial plant is a child that grew up on Looney Tunes. Uh you know, sitting right next to to a spot where maybe it's not best suited. And then our heavy manufacturing and distribution is the zone that like post and auto leaf would go in where you've got freight traffic. You're thinking of of um Lakeshore that's having semi- traffic per day. And we're trying to keep that close to the interstate so it it's it's it's on and off and it's not coming through town. It has its own designated route. Um and so those are the changes that we made so to the manufacturing zone trying to make the definitions more robust. So as we go down through the use table, I'm not going to ask you guys to make a motion to approve this tonight. I'm just giving you a rundown and it will be the first thing on

October's agenda. I will we'll cover why September isn't being met in a while. Um so the use table, I've gone through this a handful of times now. I'm feeling very comfortable with where they are. But if you ask me to do it again, I I may change some. Um I just tend to tweak it a little bit every time and I don't it's just to tweak it. It's not for better or worse. But I would love input from the planning commission on this use table and the changes of what's conditional, what's permitted, what we don't want to see. Um as we go down a little bit further, why is alcohol and tobacco permitted versus conditional use

on MFB, M1, and M2. You you put them as permitted. I was just thinking maybe that would be a place where conditional would be for that for like the M1 for all three of them probably just that we make sure that they've met all of the potential concerns of the neighbors, you know, conditionally. Yeah. just if somebody was putting in a tobacco and alcohol specialty store, I just feel like that that's in a whole another compared to like a home or you know a commercial or

Yeah, it's just a whole another realm of like complication that maybe only in Utah. Okay. Only in freaking Utah.

Um yeah, we can look at that as as a consideration. I had where it was where it was the actual store and things. I I was like envisioning that okay out in front of a retail spot that sure if you're going to have a smoke store being in front of the industrial like I know people smoke. I've I worked on floor shops for a while and yep every you know what everyone who went out and and had an outdoor break during and then who stayed indoor to have snacks. So, but that is one of those that, you know, happy to get cons feedback from the commission on and of no, we don't want to see that in this zone, but we're happy to have a conditional in this other one. Um, I was it it really is a hard balance I was having with the the flex business space of I don't want to overcommercialize it either. Um, I want to make sure that it still has that industrial purpose to it. uh leave so that if they do want to you know subdivide and and there this space is reserved for commercial that they have to go through that process of actually doing you know getting that zoning as part of the subdivision and development agreement. Um so that was the current um problem I've been working through with the use table right now. Um if you don't mind continuing to scroll tiff. Yeah. a lot of uses. Uh, a few more uses.

Sorry, question about residential facilities for elderly persons and persons with disabilities. Um, it it looks like the C chapter 1.19 supplemental regul regulations regulations is crossed out. Are there no more? So, I'm working on putting that those is into actual pulling them out and and combining them. So, I was outlining them here, okay? Because I'm in the middle of that into because chapter 19 is quite extensive and there's a lot buried there. And so, because this is a use that I think we might see coming

as we continue to grow, I would prefer that those standards are out in a chapter that's more visible and they are buried together. So,

perfect. Thank you. Um, also trying to combine a little bit because there was a lot of duplic duplicity between the different how they were broken out. So I anyway um instead of having all the footnotes that you saw u I worked with Sam to uh to make this special use regulation so they're at a re legible font. Um, and we can add to this too if we feel like stuff in the use table needs to be defined further. Um, continue to scroll. Um, so here are some changes to lot regulations. Um I I'm hoping we don't have loading docks in the business park or if they do it's it's just for like box trucks and it's not your full like

loading like 18 wheeler loading dock with green flashing lights. But that's an item I have noted on my version on my laptop to go through and continue to figure out. Um continue to scroll to I got 13 minutes. I'm great. Also, as a side note, can you bring the we we ought to bring up the the commercial trash enclosure and have that conversation again? Yeah. The more I've looked at it, the more I don't like it. We need to like look at it more closely. Mhm. Cuz as I drove around like it's just it's really costly and like all the MAT pulled all their gates off because they're so painful.

Yeah. Well, and I was review it. I was down in in uh Karen's old stomping grounds this weekend and it was funny how many the variety you get between um enclosures in Sandy and Draper and Lehi and where they're at and are they gated? Are they CMU? Are they out and so it would be nice to we might be the first city in Utah to make enforcable uh trash enclosers if we got this figured out. Yay for us. Yay for us. It's a small win sometimes. Yeah. I just I just think we got to look at it, you know, maybe in conjunction with this, but um that's something I can bring up in the commercial code because that's going to be coming up again.

It also is parking included in this because I didn't note like I know we had talked about chapter seven.

Okay, that's what I was I was like I thought we already talked about parking lots and stuff like that, but that's not part of this. Okay. Um then we go through and and talk about the need to go through and get a site plan permit. And then this infrastructure demand report is going to be a um one of the required documents at the site plan application that they come through and they give us an anticipated water usage, wastewater generation, uh power demand. We will work with the developers because some people just stick build their development and they aren't really sure what's coming in and what's not, but they they have the faith that if they build it, then someone will want to come. Others are waiting to get tenants and then they'll build. So, we'll we'll be flexible on um but we want to be able to communicate this with Dominion Energy and Rocky Mountain Power um where those are the other two service utility providers in the area. And so having a report that concises all this that we can send on to those will just help keep all of us on the same page.

Yeah, I really like this actually. And I actually wonder if we need to actually go even one step further and quantify the penalty actually

because what I don't want to have happen is we approve like a West Liberty Foods as an example and then pretty soon we blink and they're taking 50% of our whole entire water system and they didn't I mean my gut is I don't know for sure but my gut is they didn't pay the impact fees equal to what all the homes have to pay for that same volume of water that they're using. You know what I mean? Like, and I'm sure we probably have tough going back, but if we have it in the code that says, "Okay, if you bring in a company and you say you're going to use this and then you use this, well, great. You got to pony up that impact that you stole from us as a city plus your usage. You know what I mean?

It might actually be to build off that. It might be nice to create just an industrial build business license so that as they have to renew that, if you find something that's out of It gives you a a trigger. It gives them a trigger to sit in and review that and make sure that hey, this is the demand you said you were going to have. This is the demand we're getting off of your meter because there's a discrepancy you're going to be paying that on when you renew your operating license. Yeah. I just think I I I think they would want to be fair, too. I think we just want it fair that that it's all set up so that we citizens don't ever have to potentially subsidize the industry

that I mean we want the industries to do their thing and we want them to grow but we also have a limited water supply ultimately that again the business or commercial industrial business license and that way then what what it just helps with us on the processing is right now we just have a general business license so it's hard to differentiate between uh what commercial, what home business, what industrial and and so Greg and I have been or even commercialwise residential. We're trying to work on dividing that and I think industrial is another leg we could look at at improving that that brings utilities into that conversation. Yeah, I think that would be it's too diverse to narrow it into enforce. Yes.

So to make it more enforceable is what we're looking at. Yeah. But is that is that is that the place we should do that or is this in the code where we should quantify that says okay or is that in the actual impact fee ordinance? Um the I'd have to see it what how the impact uh fee analysis um transitions. It might be nice to have this water capacity be expressed in terms of erus.

Yeah. and and so that's the language they have to write their water impact by and so not just that it's gallons but what are your gallons and and then what does that translate to erus so you could really be able to take that through the impact fee analysis and and have them do the do the provide the math but then we at least would have the information as a staff to go through and say okay they're only supposed to be taking up this much water and that's this and and try to it is a little difficult comparing different uses between commercial, industrial, and residential in terms of water use, but that's what the erus are really there for. So that I love that idea. Go ahead.

Sorry. Would that consideration avoid some of the problems that happened with West Liberty Foods, for example, when they're affluent contained a lot of biomass that cause problems with our sewer systems? that study show and and later I mean instead of building their settling pond or whatever that is after the fact you know maybe include that upfront rather than having the problem later on.

Well and and like I said this would at least give us a basis of what information they're providing what their anticipated use is as they're coming to build. And I mean, if they're within those margins, then yeah, we're good. But it's what it I think we'll probably need to put as we outline the report and this probably is the best spot to outline those guidelines, what we're comfortable with in terms of standard deviation because depending on what their production capacity is, you know, maybe they only they may use 10% more this year. Okay, why was that? and if they can show why they did it and it was useful maybe they or whatever reason but at least it gives us a basis to have these conversations around yeah

the current city currently doesn't have anything for well and even more than that it gives us ability to make sure that we're monitoring and if they dramatically increase us especially water but I think probably sewer should tie in because we need to quantify like uh I can see a whole bunch of potential questions like if they did take more impact. Well, now what impact fee do they pay? The the fee that was cheap when they built the building or the fee now that's 10 times as much when they took it. Y

you know what I'm saying? Like it all needs to be quantified. I feel like especially if we're going to open up hundreds of acres into the inland port that we don't want to be burdened as a city with that potential risk, especially in water. I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but if if it's not in here and they come in and say they're going to do this and then they do something dramatically, we probably don't have any teeth to charge them anything other than usage, right? So, again, back to that, we're trying to put things together that's actual enforceable. Yeah. as we're doing good.

Being someone who worked at uh post uh maltoill before that post and going through the changes that they made in water use. I don't know if that was it, you know, because of the city's concerns or because of post's concerns of the amount of water that they use, but we dramatically reduced our water usage because I mean there were times when we were cleaning in that place that there was just hoses running 24 hours a day trying to clean equipment where they discovered eventually that dry cleaning is just as effective in bacterial, you know, monitoring. So, and prevention. So, I mean, I don't know if it was impelled because the city said you're using too much water or or it was internal and they decided to use less. But

well on the flip side then though like if if we said that this you know this is the standard that you're this is what we expect your water usage to be anytime you come under under that when you come in to renew your business license like we can we can rebate that business license because okay your impact you're actually trying to conserve water you're coming down from what we were expecting and that's one thing that's the one thing we found is if you're gonna if you create a program. The state normally views it that if you create a program to penalize, you also have to find a way to reward um businesses for when they do conservation acts. And so that's something that

it'll probably take some take me some time to go through and get that. But I it's a great idea because it'll it'll incentiv hopefully it will incentivize conservation not just of water, but I mean wastewater generation as well. I mean, anything we can do to help push the capacity of our wastewater plant as we're drown is a great thing. I also had a a question about this noise pollution standard. I wondered if the freeway would already exceed the noise pollution standard in in most of these industrial areas. Yeah. So, if you want to go talk to DOT about some sound barrier walls, I'll let you take that one. But I just wondered how you measure it. If you put in there 75 dB measured at the property line and the freeway is 80

or the freaking train depending on who's driving the train and how loud they are with their freaking horn. But you know the train's just random but the freeway is constant like 247 that thing is roaring and I just wondered how you measure it in that instance if even if a place is being loud

and then normally in our I think in our noise standard which is one of the other chapters I've been looking to review too is most of the time it isn't just spot noises that exceed that but it also involves how the duration of how long is that you know exceeding this the the pro the provided sound limit and so that's the other part too is I mean you can always get short bursts or something that exceeds that but duration also is the key in noise pollution so I guess we just as long as they aren't putting a you know a gravel pit right next to the an an industrial crusher right next to the property line. Most of the time they're they're pretty aware of these.

Yeah. I just didn't want it to be something that could uh be argued that they don't meet even if they're not creating the noise. It was concern. Yeah.

So, um so that I mean really that demand reports the last um change for the industrial code. After that we get down into some of the commercially related. Oh, I guess there was this for bulk. This was some of the things um or sorry that 18 that 35 that 10835 that should have been read as well. Um, but those those were changes that I found from Salt Lake City's code in in with the industrial port

that I thought were applicable to our our standards that are applicable to to just helping our general industrial layout, but I'm welcome to see feedback on that as well. So, okay. So, announcements about when we're meeting again. Um, I have a conference on the 20 I have a conference on the what 23rd that I'll be in Sandy for. So, the that meeting will be cancelled and then we'll plan on meeting the um the 14th of October.

So, you mind making a motion though to table this until the 14th? I Yes. Um, a motion to table Bain. I entertain a motion to table part B, discussion and consideration of chapter 1.08, commercial and industrial zones. I make that motion. I second it. Okay. I don't know. Can she second? Can I second anything? I don't know. I never seconded anything. I don't know if it's possible. We know. We know you never did. You're a voting member. Yes. Yes. Don't touch me. All in favor? All in favor? Yes. Yes. Any opposed?

Having no one be opposed to that, we will move on to comments and reports. Commission comments and reports. Do we have anything to comment? I had a comment. Okay. I was really grateful they got the sidewalk in uh Did they do it? I'm going to states it. Looks good.

Good. Good. Apartment's great. Um the APA conference, APA chapter of Utah is having their fall conference in Salt Lake on the 9th and 10th of October if anyone is interested in going down. Um nor I they haven't released the agenda yet, but normally one of those days is uh they have an entire uh section of the itinerary for um like people they call them citizens planners. Um Karen, I remember Karen and Ashley were at the last one and Micah. Micah. Yes. I was a part of it. What? I was a part of it. You were part of it. Okay. I apologize. It was April.

Um it was when Jordan ruptured his Achilles. So it was a little bit crazy that week. So if anyone of you are interested, the city will pay for your ticket. Um I will let you know if it's that Thursday or Friday what day they're planning on having the citizen planner agenda. Um but they just haven't released it yet. So, just mark the calendars if you're interested. Um,

the other thing we need to bring back is the signs, the visionary sign ordinance stuff. I don't know exactly how that applies. I mean, I read it, but I gathered that what they have doesn't necessarily meet the ordinance, but we should review that again and just go through that. They seem to be popping up on every freaking corner. They just want you to be able to find because Google Maps doesn't work for new development. Well, it's easy. Just get an Apple. Forget Google Maps. It's true. So, you have anything, Andrew? Yeah, but it's it's after this.

Okay. Um, the last item I was going to bring up is just wanted to get a feeling from the planning commission. We have public hearings when we bring topics in. So, I just wanted to ask planning commission, are you interested to continue to have public comments at every meeting? Um, or is or uh would you prefer just have the public hearings when we bring items up? We need to keep having public comments. I would agree. Do we need to talk about when we're having them? like like I feel like a lot of people have asked me that they don't get the information that we get until they've already commented and they want to make more comments later. I don't know.

I think it depends. Like last time when you weren't here, we moved the public comment to the end. Um did that go before we voted? I maybe we did because it was a public hearing and public comment. So we moved the public comment to the end. Well, probably what we should do is just move if we have presentations, move them to before the public comment, then have the public comment, then have the business. So then it's like all in the right order. So we're not like cuz I went to a county meeting and and that's what they did and I thought it was tacky, you know, where they actually voted on it and then had the public hear the public comments. Yeah, that is tacky. You know, I think it's dumb. Yeah. I think it just depends on the the situation. Yeah.

Okay. So we'll have All right. So yeah, if we have people visiting or like things to inform. So have like for example do the approval of the minutes and then presentation new business or then like public comment then new business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's ideal. I was also at Garland's um is that last week and they read this whole paragraph that basically said if you heckle, clap, speak out of turn without being called on, you'll be removed from the meeting. Wow. Uh, did they hire a bouncer? No, I don't think so. But I just think it's like it's nice to be said

sometimes it like devolves into like this heckling and we want to answer all their questions. It's just not a good venue to do that. We need to do it separately or we need to do something different than just like heckling and like like maintaining classroom control if you're the teacher. Yeah. like and I'm not sure how to do that, but I feel like it needs to be in a different forum than just like the audience like you know impacting you know cuz like if everybody's clapping, cheering for or against anything then it creates like disorder. Well, not only that, but it the other people that maybe want to speak in a different uh arrangement, you know, they don't feel like they even dare speak because of the

safety wise. It's not like heckling and like, you know what I mean? if there's 10 people against and you're the one for it, it's like you're not even going to speak. So, we only hear we only hear like one side and then it turns into like this disaster just because of the control of the meeting. So, I actually really liked what Garland had said. Uh and like you know, I've tried to speak in their meetings and they will not let me speak. Okay. Which because you don't live there? No, because I wasn't called on and I wasn't on the agenda and I actually thought it wasn't that bad. You know what I mean? just because at least they maintained order. I don't know why, but it made me think of like the British House of Commons when they're all screaming at each other and they get nothing done.

Yeah. I don't know. It was just a thought. I don't know. I just wanted it to be like So, it doesn't feel because we're like up here and we we want to have that conversation and the interaction. It's just not like a good forum to do that in this meeting. Like we you know what I mean? It just doesn't work. No. But at some point we could have answer their questions, but if they're here, they need to be quiet, listen, and go through the business, speak when they're up for their minutes, and we move. You know what I mean? Move along. Yeah, I agree. My opinion. Also, sorry, the Boxelder count uh annual summit is the 23rd. Something Dustin emailed about today. Oh, is that like the economic summit thing?

I liked that. Oh, it's I think it's the 24th. October. No, September. September. The second annual um boxelder summit registration. It is um it'll be held at the USU Bigham City campus on the 24th from 9:00 a.m. to 2:30. Um so if you're interested to the city, I mean it's it's a whopping $15, but you can go down. They've got presentations for the whole day.

Um their tenative agenda is loading on my phone. There it is. Um, look like they'll have a keynote from I think Michael Jeanfro is with the League of Cities and Town. Anyway, um, it looks like they're covering a lot about the county water master plan and preserving open space or how um, anyway, it looks like they're having Chris Sans from Cash County come over and talk about how they're pres trying to preserve open space. Um, but yeah, looks like it'll run from 9 to 2 with lunch provided. Cool. I want to go. I like that. Yeah, sign me up. Mark, Jack, anyone? I might. Let me

on that day. Me, too. Yeah, I can't either. Okay, I'll reach out to the few missing two and finalize account, but plan on going there. Perfect. I make a motion. We journ. Wait, I had to comment. Oh, sorry. Sorry I keep doing this. Brett wants to talk in the last meeting. We have a meeting at 7 o'clock. So, oh, well, very quickly, I just wanted to request that at some point, let's get a clear copy of this without all the

markup so we can digest it a little clearer. Um, one thing that came up and I think uh, as a developer mentioned and I think we realize it that our master plan is definitely maybe out of date for what we need to do nowadays. So, we ought to really consider getting into that or you know the city council whoever does that. And I did want to go on record and express my appreciation for all of the members of the neighborhood up there that commented at last meeting. I reviewed those minutes and I really enjoyed their comments and especially for all the work that went into this report and um we I think we got a clearer understanding of how everybody feels uh but also recognize you know that we are in a different time when we maybe need to consider something different. So

I had a hard place. Yeah. Yeah. Question for you Jack. So going forward, would you would you like me to send a an a copy with the edits and then a clean copy? Yes, that'd be good. Compare them both. Yeah, that'd be nice. Double the work. Greg, I'm going to need you. I like the edits myself just cuz I want to go to I like the edits, too. I like to be able to see. Okay. Are you going to make a motion to join that? Well, unless Brett had something or

No, I I think people need to I I have a people a lot of people ask why I don't say more in this meeting, but remember, I'm I'm not here to sway or I'm just here as a representative of the city council. That's it. And I listen. And so, I'm not here to make any decisions or try to sway you guys one way or the other. So, I'm here to answer any questions you may have like Jeff and and everyone, but that's it. So, Okay, I make a motion we adjourn. I second you. So, all in favor all in favor say yes. Yes.