Town Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening.

[clears throat]

It is now 6:33. We call to order. It is now 6:33 and I call this special meeting of the town council to order. We will begin with our roll call. Councelor Cooper present. Councelor Debe and Brown here. Council Mahan. Councelor Oliver present. Councelor W uh Waterhouse, Councelor Merritt, uh Councelor Goodwin

present. Uh Deputy Mayor Lloyd here.

And Mayor Anthony Harrington here. Um I do anticipate that uh Council Mahan will be here shortly. Uh unfortunately uh uh Councelor Waterhouse is actually at her mom's service and uh we don't anticipate that she will be here today. Um okay. So we'll continue under council business. We will now proceed with old business. Item 2026-51, consider and take action regarding appointment to the Town Planning and Zoning Commission, TPZ.

I'd like to This is an alternate vacancy. I'm just going to state the wordage. Item 202651 is consideration and possible appointment to fill the town planning and zoning alternate vacancy created by the resignation of Olay Ana under charter section 203. The appointment must be filled by a member of the same political party as the vacating member which is in this case is Democratic party affiliation. I'd like to make Oh jeez.

Sorry. I now open the floor for nominations by motion. Once a motion receives a second, discussion will occur on that motion before a vote is taken. If the motion fails, the council may consider another nominee. I'd like to nominate Desiree Cotton. Second. Okay. A second. Is there any discussion? And excuse us. We're just getting some paperwork. So, we're kind of hustling and bustling along. Is there any need one more? One more. I can share with Mike. It's okay. Okay. Is there enough?

So, is there any discussion? And please, if there is, keep the discussion focused on qualifications in [clears throat] the process. Once again, is there any discussion? No discussion. Okay, we'll proceed with a roll call vote. He's gone to Yes. All those in favor? I I Or actually, we said roll call, so I'll I'll go individually. Uh, councelor Cooper. Hi. Uh, councelor Debe and Brown.

Hi. Uh, councelor Oliver. Hi. Councelor Merritt. Hi. Councelor Waterhouse. She's not here. I'm sorry. Uh, councelor Goodwin. Hi. Deputy Mayor Lloyd. Hi. And Mayor Anthony Harrington. I uh there are no nays and no uh abstensions. We do have two missing counselors, but the motion passes and we will continue with the next item. Congratulations.

Uh item 2026-52, discussion and possible action regarding the adoption of the town of Bloomfield FY2027 budget and set the mill rate for fiscal year 2027. Mr. Mayor make right. Is it necessary? Is there someone speaking? There was Oh, councelor Cooper. Yes. Is Is it necessary to make a motion to discuss the uh FY202? Not Not at this time.

Okay. Thank you. We are going to move forward with the town manager uh making the first initial statements and we'd like to welcome uh councelor Mahan. We didn't get your vote on the last but we'll we'll move forward. Pass. Thank you.

Okay. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Madame Deputy Mayor, Council, uh, Town of Bloomfield citizens and and staff, and Dr. Youngberg, thank you for once again being here. Your support from the BOE is greatly appreciated. Um, we're here tonight to hopefully be at a point where uh, this council has enough information to come to a decision on the fiscal year 27 budget. Uh it has been a long journey and um but I I'm I'm proud to say that I do believe uh firmly that we're in a place that uh this council can come to an agreement uh this evening and um and uh and hopefully uh we can move forward as a community and and I selfishly hope this because my daughter's rehearsal dinner is tomorrow and uh and I won't be here tomorrow. All right. I got a wedding to attend on on Friday. So, um I'm hoping that we'll be good. Uh I'd like to thank this this council under the direction of uh of Mr. um Mayor Anthony Harrington uh for having the foresight to understand that um until those chickens are hatched, you really never know what's going to happen, right? And we approached this uh budget the last time that we were together and I was with you uh with the hope that uh we would be successful and receiving some money from the state. Uh but the fact of the matter is um is that that effort uh fell a little bit short, right? But under your direction uh we more than made up for it. And um so what we'll propose to you this evening are some town manager identified cuts uh which will have the effect of uh reducing the 3.51 that was voted upon last week uh by council and taking it

actually down to 3.3% with uh some of the council initiatives that were given to um towards the budget uh to reduce the budget as much as we can. So, we'll provide that scenario to you. But we also have another um piece to it. if this uh council uh was determined to uh pursue a budget increase of less than 3.3% and and it will take us all the way down to 2.7. Uh but I ask you to be very mindful of the the the count town council suggested cuts because a lot of them involve impacting um unionized employees. And when you impact a unionized employee, even though you designate a certain employee from a certain department to be cut, that doesn't necessarily have the intended effect. Uh, for instance, if you're uh identifying somebody to be cut in the town clerk's office, and the town clerk will readily admit that um right now for the size of our community, uh we are overstaffed in that capacity. But when you take into consideration um the labor of work that needs to be done in that office because of decades of um of issues related to that and the compiling of reports uh she needs that extra manpower right now to get her right and when she's rightsized then we can look to um impact that through um by by not filling positions once they're vacant. So, um I just want you to be mindful. So, if we take a clerk out of that, then we could end up having uh an adverse effect on another department who that clerk is has more seniority than and then that that person could then bump somebody else. It can bump somebody

else and next thing you know, we're down to a department where we don't have the capacity to lose anyone because they're operating at maximum efficiency with the numbers they have. So when we talk about uh the suggested um recommendations from council, I know it was given with the best intention in mind, but what you don't understand unless you you sit in my seat and you run this organization as I do uh every day. You don't understand the second and third order of effect of these changes. So I ask you to please just understand that um as I manage this town, I do so understanding that those second and third orders of effect because that's what you pay me to do, right? And and I receive well all the suggestions you have here and I think uh we'll be able to get to some of these um um places that you so desire. uh but just give me the time hopefully to do it and and and the and the plan that I've developed and and somewhat shared with you in a phase two um approach to retirements next year. Okay. So, with that said, um I know Mr. Mayor, you you have your your strategy that you would like to approach this and um I'll turn it over to you as uh as you completed your your voting on on each of the um the cuts that are placed before you. Uh if you need any real time um understanding of how that impacts the present um um uh increase uh which right now we're talking about 3.3% not 3.51 then uh we'll be prepared to uh do those calculations uh to provide uh additional information that will hopefully have this council come to a decision this evening. Okay. So subject to your questions or concerns sir?

Yes. I'm going to turn it over to our deputy mayor if she would like to. You need me, ma'am. Continue. You need me? No. No. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh thank you for the presentation and thank you as well to all of the directors and staff that have continued to work on coming up with um additional savings in light of the lack of expected ECS funding. Um in light of some of the expected um retirements on the town side on a um voluntary attrition model. The board of ed also endeavored a similar um voluntary attrition model which did not garner the number of retirees. And so that changes the numbers, right? That changed the numbers on the board side, it changed the numbers on the town side. The lack of ECS funding also changed the numbers. And so with the expectation of the ECS, we voted on a 3.1% increase, which of course we couldn't walk into Monday night with that same number. very disappointingly um particularly when we look at ourselves compared to other communities and the needs that we have. And so back to the drawing board, did the staff go? And again, I thank you for the wholehearted efforts that you put in. Um as we go over this list, I do see a couple of items that I'd like to address. Um Mr. Mayor, I believe you were going to go down the line again in order. um and I will specifically address those, but I definitely want to give um thanks and gratitude to everyone that's worked so hard on this and we'll save my other comments as far as particular line items when you come back down the line. Thank you.

Thank you. We will start with uh Councelor Death and Brown. Thank you. So, I'm really trying to um make uh some sense of all of this and um I I have a few um maybe clarifying questions that's not necessarily regarding this list that we just received. Can I ask those clarifying questions? Sure.

Okay. So, um, going back to our, um, budget book on page 10, we're looking at general town operations and we're looking at I think I need to get a full understanding of how much we're taking out of fund balance. I thought it was 3 million, but then I'm looking at it's 3.6 and change. Is that correct? We're doing three.

Yes, that is correct. So, we're taking out 3.6 million from fund balance. Not the 3 million. Not just 3 million.

Uh yes. As Good evening, council, uh Mr. Mayor, Madame Deputy Mayor, uh councilors, uh Bloomfield residents and uh guests. Um, you know, when we're talking about the um the overall budget, I like to refer to the calculation of the mill rate page as all the details at a high level that anyone is referring to. So, I don't have the page number in front of me, but if you would turn to the calculation of the mill rate page, you will see where the fund balance use is and has always been. It is currently shown in the town council recommended budget as $3 million apply. I think the language is uh general fund balance applied

and then several lines below there's $665,000 that's been there since the town manager's proposed budget which is to shave the peak off the top of our debt service that occurs in next fiscal year. Mhm.

If you read that line, it speaks to uh I think it's fund balance applied to debt service, but it's from unassigned, right? That is from bond premium that was generated in January of 2025 when we took the bond anticipation notes issued for the libraries and Philly Pond project long-term. It [clears throat] generated $900 and some thousand of bond premium. Um, and the plan at last year's budget cycle was to utilize 665,000 of that to shave the peak off to keep us below 8 million. So, yes, when you put the 3 million for general fund balance applied, the 665,000 for debt service, you get the 3.665 million of fund balance use.

Excuse me. So, um, sorry, out of order, please.

So, thank you for that clarification. Um, another question that I want to ask is now that we have um the amount that we're going to be getting from ECS in the state, did we go back or is it possible for you to go back in, take out the 1.4 million that we put in and put in the correct numbers so that we can just see where we are as a as a jump off point? Yes, I'm happy to share my screen and uh as I do I uh just less than 60 second of remarks to kind of level set for council and the public on what it is that you're looking at. But uh to start that remark, it is [clears throat] adjusting the town council's recommended budget to the revenue reality. The council had voted to include that 1.4 million uh of additional funding from the state um which has turned out to be 500 $586,000 and $586,16. So the delta between the or the difference between the 1.4 million and the $586,16 coming from the state is $813,984. So we'll call it $814,000. [gasps] What I'll show when I share my screen is adjusting the, as you said, the 1.4 4 million down to the 586.

And you'll see that the 3.5% from the town council's recommended has gone up to 4.3%. And that is solely because of this revenue reality and then I'm prepared to adjust as council directs.

Thank you. So I think I just wanted to kind of like level set before we start talking about adding, subtracting, whatever else. I think it was really important that that we see where our starting point is, right? especially since we put the 1.4 million in. So that the numbers that we do have is just incorrect. And if we can't start with correct numbers, then it's going to be a problem. So, thank you so very much for the clarification and thank you for um level setting and sharing your screen. Um as I stated, we just got this right and and looking at this. I I have a couple problems where I'm really really stuck. Um, and then we just got another packet that I don't even know what the packet says, but um I have a problem if we're going to uh put social workers in a time when everyone, including myself, needs as much mental health help as possible. I have a problem if we're going to cut um senior services library. I I have those are those are problems for me and I don't know looking at this if it's going to make any of my problems go away. Right? I see that um the uh incentivized uh layoffs um or retirement plan um I think I had a a fundamental problem with how we approached it. Um, councelor Goodwin had a um modification and as I said as one who uh don't really believe in incentivizing I think his modification was a little bit more palatable than the one that we have uh

agreed to at this point. Um so Mr. Chair I you know I'll go ahead with the with the uh second round. Um, but those are some of my concerns going into this process and nothing here right now is alleviating my concerns. I do believe that we need to have a freeze period. Um, and I don't see that here. I see that we're finding money and once again that's great. Um, but I think the way in which we're going about it, I'm just not all that comfortable with. So, I'll see you on the next round. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, uh, Councelor Goodwin.

Thank [clears throat] you, Mayor. Um, I will say the same thing. I think it is I I want to echo, um, our deputy mayor Lloyd's feedback about I appreciate the effort and the work that's been invested. I will name part of our responsibility is to do due diligence to review suggestions have time to deliberate and think about them so that when we come here we are able to make an informed decision so I will own receiving this in real time I would name for me I don't feel that it's an appropriate enough time to truly do full due diligence so I will participate as best I can but I want to name that I feel that is a limitation and I get the time and the effort that it took but that will impact my ability to be able to weigh in on this um I would say in the manner in which I feel I was elected. So I think that's important to state. Um while I'm not necessarily pushing forward the retirement incentive plan that I offered, I do find myself troubled by what was offered by the board of education and then what we're offering in town. I think there has to be some level of par. If people are being asked to retire, then whatever incentivizing we get, I think there has to be some form of par. And I think that the initial plan that was offered um while generous in nature and I do believe in giving people some form of incentive when their job of employment is being taken away. I think the level at which um that was proposed I think is in congruent with trying to make a budget more palatable for the residents and the taxes and so on and so forth. So again, I'm not saying I don't support anything, but I I want to I'm just naming I'm balanced by what happened in the board of education, what we might do to parody that and if we can tone down what that retirement incentive

plan offered. Um I think I'm willing to support something. I just can't support it at the level in which it was originally proposed. Thank you. Thank you, Council Oliver.

Thank you, Mayor Hansen. Um, I'd like to start with again, thank you for putting all this time into this. Um, but it is kind of being I feel like we're kind of put on the spot with some of the information, not all of it. Um, because we have discussed stuff. So, you know, it's not like we're really being all of us have really been put in a spot. But it it it is a difficult thing just just agree to one thing. And I hope that maybe we can go into the back and caucus on this and instead of going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth and come to a group decision on what we're going to come with an agreement tonight and that that's just my comment. Thank you.

Thank you. So, one thing that I would like to mention [clears throat] in an effort to try to bring back some funds into uh this whole process, uh counselors were asked to uh contribute via the um uh council initiatives and uh the standardization initiative brings 35,000 local small business initiatives. ative 62,000, the trades initiative 49,000 and the barbershop initiative 94,600. So that's a total of $240,600 that has been taken to try to offset some of uh the I can't say unexpected loss, but the the the fact that we didn't get a higher amount from uh ECS.

Point of information, Mr. Mayor. I'm just a point of information. Uh I noticed Summerbridge wasn't mentioned. What about Summerbridge? There is no money in Summerbridge. Okay. Okay. So, it's a total $240,600 that was being uh reallocated for this purpose. Um Deputy Mayor Lloyd.

Thank you. Um, we got a similar list to the top half of the page a few days ago. Um, and I'd mentioned at that point to some of the staff who are sitting in here this evening that they have already given so much by way of um, staff reductions that I cannot support as well. Additional cuts to social services, senior services. Um, and going back to information that was distributed earlier this week, I believe the library was in at 54,000 and I had said I was not in favor of that either because we had already taken that PTE off the table. So, thank you, Director Lane, um, for still offering up a $4,000. I know the packet probably has a description of what that's related to, but I don't see the need to um, include that PTE. It is not on this list. It was earlier this week, but those are my main sticking points as as well as a couple others that I will mention probably on the second round. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you, Councelor Merritt.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I'd like to point out to people who have this form and that may not understand it. Um, we're also we're basically working off just the top section in case you didn't hear that. In other words, the the one that ends up with a 965 um,72 amount giving us a 3.3. Um, I don't know if you have this latest one. Um, and with an option down below where we have a 240,600, it could be added to that to replace. I'm sorry. Okay, it's in there. I shouldn't say that. Okay, so that that is that that's in there already. 96572 is the number. So that's a major major and I give credit to everybody who's worked on that because it's not a very painful adjustment. There aren't any layoffs in there. At least I don't see one. Um and uh and I I I so I would support that generally, but I I also I also if we could possibly do it would support the suggestions that have been made like um I think [clears throat] our our incentives are a little bit strong and I and some of the people are leaving I I just don't think we can do without. home. Um, but I I hope we can work work that out. But I also think to to not with all the comments been made about operations and communications, I I do I would prefer to see a bigger cut there. Although I know they have promised that down the road um there's one coming, but it's not something that can be put in

the budget. So that may have to satisfy us. But um um sometimes to make these cuts all at one time is sometimes not very bright and uh if you give us a little time we could do things more intelligently which more humanely. So I I would I would support basically what's here. Thank you. Thank you. Uh councelor Mahan and Councelor Cooper I have not forgotten you. It's just easier to go down here and then go online. So, uh, we'll continue with Council Mahawk.

All right. Thank you, Mayor Harrington. Um, so I, um, looking at this stuff, I I agree with some of my colleagues that it would, um, would have been great to get some of this information, uh, a bit earlier, but, um, looking at some of the cuts, I'll I'll make u a few offers uh, myself on this. Um, in terms of uh what I'm seeing here is um of course a an [clears throat] effort by the town manager and his and his staff to um meet the the goals that the town council has for where we want to see our mill rate, where we want to see where we want to see taxes. And I I do thank you for that. Um, I do feel like they are um they have strayed away from the intentions that we outlined and the uh the uh departments and services that we wanted to make sure were uh left untouched. Um I I I don't think that these cuts uh delivered from the town manager deliver um what we're looking to do. Um so I'm just going to throw some things out there. I I don't think that we should reduce PT hours for the library. Um I education and training. Um, we can see of course what that works out to be, but um we already struggle with keeping our library open um for workable hours for most of our residents. Um reducing part-time hours is only going to make that worse. Um I can I can agree with purch moving the purchasing manager to part-time. Um, it's not something I really want to see, but just uh as an effort to capture some of those savings. Um, I can agree to freezing the two

positions for public works were already pretty stretched there. Um, but I do want to get back to some of the other items that we recommended such as reducing operations and communications. I do want to see that department go back down to the fiscal year 2025 actuals which was around 500 500 something thousand. I can't remember off the top of my head right now. Um I I agree with councelor Betham Brown on the hiring freeze. Um I think that's going to be crucial. Uh we can't we're not in a position to really add anyone and I do understand council Merritt um he's been a a champion of the of adding an accountant to the finance department. For obvious reasons, our audits have been perpetually late. Um, but perhaps this just isn't the season for adding anyone. I do agree with reallocating the town council initiatives. I know that's very tough for my colleagues who um have been very passionate about their projects. Luckily, this is a group effort and so we can all make that decision together that it'd be better to uh see that money put back into um our budget. Uh no raise for management and nonuse non-union. We did have the example as well for the four-day furlow for management and non-union. I do think that we should um move forward with that. Um I agree with the reductions in the town manager's office. I I hate to see it, but I think it's something that um would be necessary. Um and that's where at least I want to start. Um and hopefully my colleagues have some cuts on the next uh on their next goround. Um, I do have a question though regarding the retirement benefit because I I um I personally didn't support that and I I even if we were to adjust it, I still can't support that item. Um, and I

I just want to make sure is the retirement benefit something that is a part of this budget or is that a separate policy that we voted on? um because if it's a separate policy that we voted on then regardless of uh what happens with this budget that still moves forward and so I just want to know is that is it a separate policy that we that we voted on and push forward or um is that something that we can um walk back? If I can get an answer on that please. [clears throat]

And thank you for your question uh councelor Mahan and and from a legal perspective I I cannot give you the the guidance that you're seeking but from my my understanding is that um what was voted upon by the council uh gave us the foundation to move forward with this budget uh that we're now at. So, we took into consideration the anticipated savings from um what was produced as a result of the retirement incentive to get to the point where this budget was at 3.51 the last time we met and when I was here. So, if we're talking about going back on that, if we're talking about that no longer being um an option where six positions are going to be eliminated and they'll be seeing savings of um close to over 500,000 this fiscal year and over a million every year going forward. If you're looking to reverse that, then um I don't know if you're legally bound or not by by what you voted on, but that was the basis for us moving forward. Uh and I've yet to be able to solidify that with the um uh impacted employees because this budget has yet to pass, okay, as a whole. So, um so that's that's where I'm at. Um but uh I do know that uh uh you know there there are people that are just looking to have an answer so that they can plan for their lives.

Right. Right. And I I do think that we we should give those folks an answer because ultimately as you said this this is their their lives. Um [snorts] I though I do understand the um uh the fiscal impact and the the savings as we uh coin it as um the the loss in institutional knowledge um I think far outweighs any potential savings that we can reap from this and I I personally wouldn't like to see and I I agree with councelor Beatan Brown where I don't think that we should be incentivizing retirement. we can get a a lot more creative than uh putting out a uh a program like this. Um so hopefully we can get some answers on what the um legal how legally bound we are to that vote. I'm hoping that it was just a guidance vote and not something that we are tied to. [snorts]

Thank you, uh Council Cooper.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um so you know I I've as sitting here I've actually taken a moment to look at both of the scenario right um from a few folks what I've heard it it seems is that um they are unwilling to to give up things and I think that um we do ourselves a disservice because we are in a compromise sides. Um there are directors um thank God you know for this town who see um in order for us to move forward that they uh may not want to give up some things but they have to for the good of the town. Um, and I think that, you know, from everyone who wants to say that they can't see us not having this or can't see us not having that, you you need to look with another set of eyes because we will not get to the numbers that we want, the numbers that we need, the numbers that some folks genuinely worry about, and the numbers that some folks are going to holler about, whether you give them a 1% increase or 0% increase. So I think for us to do a a a balanced budget, we need to look at those things. And if my point is if we are unable to um to have them, you can you can not have them, but if they are found to be that detrimental to this town, you can add them back in later. I think that where we are right now is a budget one has us saving uh almost 800,000. I think the um council

budget has us saving another $2 million uh with some with some drastic cuts. So, we're either going to have to make those drastic cuts, right, or we're going to have to go with the recommendations of what the town manager has given. Uh but what we are not going to be able to do is everyone have everything they want. There are 22,000 residents here. People have to give things up um in order for us to move forward. there is the uh town manager's proposed uh uh uh uh incentive for the folks that you know uh that can retire and again they are not bound um to the town of Bloomfield except in employment. They are able to leave their employment at any time. Yes, they are. And you know the the uh elephant in the room is uh layoffs, right? So you don't want to you don't want to maybe go too far to the left or too far to the right. But nonetheless, those are positions that are eligible. Folks are saying, you know, they are willing to take um what is being offered. Uh and I don't see a reason why that you know they they shouldn't be able to that we should not just come out and say yes. Um the last part I want to say is uh I have heard from day one in these deliberations that we are able to go back and adjust make adjustments. So if there's maybe a slight adjustment for us to agree that yes that the uh um the incentives can be offered but you know maybe there's one area that that might not be given um and I think was a very

small uh area of amounted to about $55,000 but we could take that off uh you know which I I I personally would would you know would would go for but Again, you can't have everything. Everyone here has to give up something and we can't all have everything we want. That's what compromise is. And for some reason, we keep going back to what we think is the most important. There are folks who think the library is important. There are folks who think the pool is important. There's a poll folks who think that, you know, uh uh senior services, leisure services, youth services, you know, summer programs are important. There are folks who want to see that carved bear in the library, right? There are folks who really want to see that. There are folks who want to see the town center um uh have something happen with it. But the thing is everything cannot be had. Everything at this point is a compromise. We are not all going to get it. So I think let's just start from there. Start from there. Make some cuts. get a budget for the town's people and let's move on to whatever is going to come next, which I'm sure that most people in their mind know something is going to come next. If we don't have anything to give anybody, we can never move forward. And I'm going to end there because there's something I want to say, but I'm going to end there. I'll leave it for Thank you.

Thank you. So, we are now going to have a second opportunity. Uh we're going to start at the other end of uh the deis and uh councelor Mahan can continue with his uh questioning. Do you have do you have any direct cuts? We're we're we're giving you the opportunity to continue. Mr. Mayor, yes. Um

just a point of clarification. Um, I think just a couple of us have mentioned some specifics, but no one that I recall has put out any dollar amounts. So, through you, Mr. Mayor, to Director Hill, are you ready at this time to plug in and out numbers if any would be offered? Because I think we have pontificated enough and at this time it might be the time to kind of put some things on the table and then to Mr. Mayor's point, um, potentially caucus on this. Um, again taking note that having kind of just received this information but not and the reason I say it for the public who has this document, the top half we had on Monday, okay, with a couple of adjustments, but the additional potential reductions is what is new. Um, which would bring us below a 3.3. Can

Okay. So, mayor can ask and Oh, yes. So, to Deputy Mayor Lloyd's point, um I wanted to motion that we caucus now before we actually asked Director Hill to start plugging numbers just so that we might get some consensus to then come back and what Director Hill is plugging in, we have some degree of consensus for. Second, Mr. Mayor, if I may. May I speak to that? Before you caucus, if I could do the brief overview just to level set so you see what the percentage is, what the mill rate is, what the revenue adjustment. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Um, so this is adjusted from where council ended its deliberations. When was that? Last week. Um and you will see that the board of education remains at a $1.578 million increase. Um town operations, debt service, metropolitan district commission fixed charges are unchanged. Total budget remains at 119 2681 170. And this yellow highlighted cell that includes 13,894257 is where the revenue adjustment happened. So with the town council's recommended budget, you will look and see that there's a $14 million number there. It's $8 just under $814,000 higher than that. That is the revenue adjustment. The general fund balance applied remains at 3 million. Um 665,000 for debt service. The state motor vehicle uh adjustment uh the grant from the state which actually I probably need to iterate through that. So that might be a slight tweak that I can do uh right after I get to the bottom. Um the bottom half is unchanged until we get down to the increase which has gone up from the town council's recommended at 3.51% to 430%. Which corresponds to the mill rate of 34.81. So the linear math holds every h 100,000 is approximately decimal 1% and every million dollar is a 1% uh adjustment in the percent increase. Uh that's all. Thank you mayor.

I don't understand. Are you saying you don't Excuse me. Turn it back on. Council may have the floor. I are I are you saying we we are not if we go ahead with uh this 965.72 we will not have a 3.3 we will have a 4 three no no um with no council action ads or cuts only the revenue adjustment to the reality from the state the correction of the 1.4 4 million down to the $586,16 we're at 4.3%. Okay. So,

to your point, um, if I add a number right here that says minus 965702. Let me go back. We're at 3.2%. Thank you. Council Merritt. Uh I have experienced too many times um the majority party going and caucusing which I'm not even sure is legal because that's not what really caucuses are supposed to be about. But I and then you're going to come back and make a decision

and we might as well the Republicans might as well go home and not you have to be part of the discussion. I really think I would like to be part of the discussion because you're going to come up with some decisions in there and come right out here. I've seen this happen too many times and we have no vote. We have no say in it. It's not fair. It's not right. I don't think it's even legal, Mr. Mayor. And I don't think I think we should be able to do this in front of everybody without having it secret stuff. Why the heck you want to do it in secret? Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, um, while I appreciate Councelor Goodwin's comment about caucusing and getting some of those numbers and consensus around them, I think kind of going back to everyone airing out at least some initial cuts and thoughts around it will then allay the concern that Council Merritt has just expressed as it relates to the Democrats and the Republicans not caucusing together. we'll at least have an idea where each um of the persons on the party stand before we do have those conversations so we can take everyone's opinion into consideration. Councelor Goodwin thought I'm sorry. No, you're fine. Thank [clears throat] you.

So, I I want to acknowledge it and appreciate what you said, Councelor Merritt, and still make the motion because it can be seconded and you could vote it down. So, I'm going to make the motion that we take the time to go caucus on the numbers and we're going to come back and have a discussion anyway. I don't think it's about done deal, but I would prefer us to be on the same page with the information we now have. So, my motion is that we take a brief recess to go identify a amount of time or no 15 20 15 minutes. 15 minutes. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor discussion.

Yeah. Who wants Do we want to do a roll call vote? Yeah. Okay. We have an amendment to so it in in in an effort to be fair if the Democrats caucus and we have a list that we believe is palatable can then someone maybe Mr. Chair go and talk with the two Republicans just come back to the meeting and list make your list and then we'll just talk from there. I was just trying to help. I understand. I appreciate it.

All right. Okay. All right. So, the recommendation was to

I have a motion on the floor. That's been seconded. That needs a vote. One moment, please. I just want to avoid that. Mr. Mayor, point of clarification. Hi, Council Cooper. Um, as it as it has been suggested, yes, the Democratic caucus has caucused previously and then brought back their consensus to the Republicans and shared it with them in order for um discussions uh and deliberations to begin again live.

So, there was a second to that uh motion. It was You had the second, right? Yes. Okay. So, let's do a roll call vote. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hey. N to secret meeting. Deputy Deputy Mayor. Deputy Mayor. Why do you have to do it in secret means it'll be faster and more productive? Mr. Mr. Mr. Mayor, they're not you bang the gap. Too much chatter on the dis. Mr. Mayor, please. Please.

Yeah. Now it's your turn. Council Mahan, please don't. Nay. Uh, councelor Cooper. I Okay, the eyes have it. We will take a 15 minute pause.

We could do that. Okay.

Okay. Nothing wrong with caucus.

Stop doing it. Pause. You're going to say something. Oh, okay.

They're calling to order.

Thank you very much. We're just waiting for one more counselor to return and then we will again.

So we will start with uh counselor dean Brown.

Thank you. So, um there's two scenarios before us, right? And I'm suggesting uh for scenario one that we add back, um parks and wreck and leisure services. We're adding back social services. We're adding back senior services. We're adding back the library. We are considering um extending the delay in the MGMT and um from the bottom portion. We are um eliminating the one position in operations and comms and we are considering some other positions that were not presented. So we would like those other present other positions that were suggested presented so that we can make a more informed decision. Thank you, Councelor Goodwin. Sure.

Okay. I just um are just want to make sure that we're capturing um things as they're coming down. I was trying to uh situate staff. So, uh do you have that written down, ma'am, that you can provide and and I can take from you? Uh I'll I'll restate it as well. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You mean the additional positions? Um, everything that you said. Oh, yes. Yes, I do. Okay. If it's written, thank you.

Okay. [clears throat] And I'll essentially going to restate it. So, again, from the top half, restore parks and wreck, restore social services, restore senior services, restore the library. If you go down to the bottom of operations and comms, we would eliminate the one FTE at 156882. Thank you. I thought we were eliminating council Oliver. I I mean, we just went back here to discuss to come with an agreement and I'm just going to agree then repeat. So, thank you, Deputy Mayor Lloyd.

Okay. And um I think if we look in our packets, the um addendum packet with explanations, these expenses and revenues on parks, recreation, and leis leisure are derived from um additional revenues going into 2027 year budget with the increased fees to the pool and other amenities and classes as well. The expenses um that derived the 96572 at 82,000 is actually not able to be moved. that is based on the fact that currently we subsidize the afterchool program as well as the summer program to a certain extent and with um the increase on fees that changes the expenses. Um what has been presented by the director is that this is going to cause going into next year a reduction in the need for staffing because of the changes that are proposed for FY2027 Elisia services. So it's really not able to be kind of put back in as being suggested. So I just wanted to make that clear. Um I concur with the social and senior services um through attrition. They have already given much. Um I think there was a question and it should be in our packet um regarding the police and those expenses that derive um some savings. Um, I agree with the management nonUNG GWI conversation. Um, and then Mr. Manager, um, there were some other positions, although there are some others here that you have delineated. Um, we certainly, um, appreciate you putting forth some of this information. We would like to not have to affect the union uh, situation right now because we know it's a lot of jumping and hopping and takes time to execute as well as negotiations. So, with that said, I'll yield to the next counselor.

Councelor Merritt.

Um, I haven't heard anything yet that I object to. I don't don't think these are there's things I still don't like, but they aren't important enough to not pass this and not agree with those things. So, I I would agree with the social services and senior services and the library, although $4,000 isn't going to make or break anybody. Um, so and and uh I I don't know just we haven't heard any numbers yet. So, I Why can't we uh put some motions of numbers on the table and have our finance director see what happens?

Thank you. Uh, council Mahan. Yeah. Can we see where that has us so far? Then I can then provide some input from there. There's a number I need to input.

Yes. Did you include any of the suggestions that were listed from the previous comments? Excuse me. Uh councelor, I'm sorry. Um he wasn't here so we have to move back to councelor uh Goodwin and dean Brown who initially gave that information. Perfect. Okay. So that so we can see where we where we are now. Okay, cool. Yeah, there we are. So, we're asking to put back the social worker in social services. That was $42,374. Okay, bear with me. [sighs]

Mayor, can I ask a point of clarification? Um, as [clears throat] we're doing this, I'm sorry, I didn't hear it. Can I ask a question? a point to a clarification because my question is the scenarios aren't fully baked in to the module anyway. These were given to us but from my understanding you haven't exactly played with these scenario numbers into the right so it's I think it's going to be more than just adding them back we would have to take away everything else we also agreed to like the bill like these numbers have to also be removed the building and land use the police the human I mean anything that we Mr. mayor if I may in the top

but they're not in I'm trying to figure it out. We're just trying to figure out the best process here to work with the top scenario in the budget. Um

Darl,

thank you. So, similar to council's prior deliberations, um I have the ability to show you where you are with any number that you want to add or eliminate um just by inputting it here. Um but I need to know what that number is. So, if we want to go line by line and add a bunch of things in, right, none of these items or reductions or the additions of revenue are included in the base. This this currently reflects at the 4.3% as I said before your caucus um the town council recommended budget adjusted for the revenue reality. So anything off of this page that the council wants to do I need to input but all I need is a number and I can put it in to show you where you are. So, can I just ask another clarifying question on the bottom where it says um police eliminated three FTEEs for FTE held vac? So, do you have that number? Do you don't have that number at all either?

Um, right. Is it baked in or not? There is nothing on this list. Okay. That is included. Thank you. And this this is the town council's recommended budget. Okay. With the adjustment for the revenue reality. Okay. These are for council's [clears throat] excuse me council's consideration and action. Okay. So let's let's go ahead with the numbers. So social services we're adding 42,374. what we are going to do with

just a I'm sorry another point of clarification. Um so to uh Director Hill's point since none of these are added in. I don't believe in our budget you reduce social services correct by 42 37. Did we do that in No. So we don't need to add it then if it's not reduced in our budget. what I'm

it's not reflected there. So, we don't need to add it. If it's not if it's not in if it's not cut, we don't need to add it. It's [clears throat] so we will need to add it. Okay. So, we will need to add it. Okay. So before we move forward this budget just so this budget has social services reduced by 42374 no right that's what this model does not he's going to make the adjustment for anything you don't want to accept I I don't

I don't think that's what he's saying you would have to run the entire scenario and the budget as presented for us to modify it and because it's not there you wanted to Mr. Mayor if I may.

Yeah. Yes. Thank you so much. Um, as you look at the second portion of the sheet, which talks about town council suggested, if you see a zero available, that means that has already been accounted for in the budget and it is already baked in. Okay. All right. So, as you look at the top, right? And and there's a lot of ways that we can do this. We can add everything that's in the town manager identified and then we can go back and and we can remove what you determine that you want removed. What is the easiest way for us to accomplish?

Let me ask uh Mr. Hill. Mr. Hill, how would you rather do this? Would you rather [clears throat] add everything and then subtract out? If we add everything, then we're going to get to the 3.3%. and then we start to subtract out. We're going to raise above that 3.3% and they can see that as we're um taking it removing it from the budget, right? Uh yeah, yes is the answer. Um is that [clears throat] the way that you think will be most efficient for us to proceed? Then we can do that. If you have another way that you would prefer to do it, then we can do whatever way you suggest. The only question I would need answered is one we're focused on the top portion. I think I understand that correctly.

Yes. And of the items listed, are the majority of them council supporting and want to see in and then there's one or two or three that need to be removed or is it the vice versa? It's the majority of them being supported. I would s it's vice versa. So only a couple of things off of this list are going to be added reductions are going to be supported. Yes. Okay. So, I'm I'm confused now because when we went through the first time, I counted four removes. So, that to me means the majority of them have been supported and we're going to remove four from the top. So, if I understand the question right, the majority of them in the top that get gets us to a 3.3 are going to be removed.

Yes. And then we're taking from there the bottom four or so. Correct. Right. And then we're going to take some stuff from the bottom. Yes, ma'am. So understand if I understand that correctly I would suggest that everybody looking at the sheet we have uh 9 and $65,72 removed which brings us down to 3.23%. And then whatever items you want from the top section to be removed, right? I can back those out. Yes. One by one.

I I believe that's the fastest way, most efficient, [clears throat] but it's a Mr. Mayor and council's um discussion, however you would like to do it. But what he's suggesting is instead of listing each of the line items, we just get the total amount that we know those savings are. And what we'll do is we'll back out and identify by line what those reductions are. And that way, you know, we don't have to list everything. We know it's included because it's part of the 965702. So, are we just you just want us to put back what we're going to what we are backing out, right?

Okay. So, what we're backing out of the 965702 is $42,374 for social services. Mr. Mayor. Yes, Councelor Cooper. So, I I think and and and just excuse me for a second. I thought the the first order was to put in all of those um cuts and see where we were and then come and then come back. That's what we're doing.

If if you could ask Mr. Hill and uh town manager if that's what we were doing or are we going to are we going to put in all the additions? Town managers just mentioned that that's what we're doing right now. Okay. So, if we're doing that, are we going by are we individually going down a line and saying what we want put in or is this going to be a council decision?

The top portion of this model. So we'll call out them individually uh at this point. So we just added 42374 for social services. We have an additional 40,000 for senior services to add 4,000 for 4,000 for 4,000 for the library. Right. I apologize. [clears throat] 40,000 services and 4,000 for library.

Yes. Yes.

No. Okay. So, there were four items. This is three. The other one was the parks and wrecks. And we're saying that that would need some more discussion. Some more discussion on parks. Okay. Yeah. So, we're pausing on that one. Okay. So, want to move down to the additionally moving down, we had uh ops and comms at 156882.

Mr. Mayor, for clarity, you've moved on to the second section. Yes, I'm sorry. to remove operations and comms at 156882

to you want to add that reduction that's you folks are actually saying that that's we're taking that out you're saying I'm sorry Mr. speak. [clears throat] Yes. Okay. If I understand correctly, you are accepting uh the town council reduction of 156882. Yeah. From down below. That's the intent. [clears throat] Right. Right. If I understand correctly. Right. Okay. What's the next one? I

think that's the last one. And I think we we asked for some more clarification on some other positions that were recommended that weren't we don't see um reflected here. Deputy mayor. Oh,

as shown at the top right, you're sitting at 3.15% and a mill rate of 34.42. We need some more cuts. Okay. So, are we going to move down the line as we were? We were also thinking about um delaying the M MGMT.

I'm sorry. We got to go down on this. Right. I move the budget and it it won't be it won't be long. Uh council counc

I apologize. So we're just asking what we want to take away at this point going down the line. Correct. Mayor. Yes. Um if there's anything else. Well, I mean we don't have a solid number right now, do we? Well, we know that ops and coms 156882. Yeah, I'm Oh, this is these other numbers here. Yeah, they're up there that we've done so far based on our conversation. I think what's missing is the other positions that we that aren't represented here. And then some clarity about the parks, wreck, and leisure. Correct. Can

we verify part? Yes. Can um Mr. Mayor, deputy mayor,

if you could please have uh Mr. time manager or director h to explain the impact of the parks wreck and leisure number so that the public can understand this is reflective of a small increase to the summer camp and the shift in the afterchool program with a fees increase so that everyone in ingesting and digesting this information will understand that we don't have a lot of latitude there unless we choose not to accept the fee increases which will reduce the revenues or if we change the model on the fee [snorts] structure for the summer camp program and the number of staffing that has been um thoughtfully baked into this number which it was a higher number. It was higher than that,

right?

The expenses were upwards on almost 200 um initially from the model we saw on Monday and that was at no subsidy whatsoever. That was just as a model because I freaked out too. So, I'm going to say it. I'm I'mma preface before I say it. Um, that would have been having summer camp at full price with no subsidy. And this number was upwards on expenses around 200,000 with no subsidy, which means summer camp would have been well over 300, almost close to 400. So, I emphatically said I couldn't support that. Um, and so, Director Mlesco went back and rehashed the numbers. And so this is with a modest adjustment to the rate which we're very reasonable um comparable to Windsor who's 200. We were 195 last year. I think there's a recommendation of 210 this year but understanding that we're talking about fiscal year 27 which means we're talking about what is summer camp going to cost June, July, August of next year. And I believe this is reflective of the camp costs going up to approximately $250. So creeping up. I don't know how high it'll go. At some point I'm going to draw the line in the sand personally as a resident who utilizes those services. But that's why these numbers are immovable unless we just change the whole model. And I believe um that information is here if the counselors want to kind of take a look at the more detailed explanation of that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. You

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Oh, you No, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, let me give um first opportunity to uh Mr. Dave Mlesco, if he's on the line, and if he's Oh, he's trying to get him online right now. Okay. All right. We can have um Mr. Hill uh who's worked extensively with him this afternoon to get to this calculation. and as soon as he gets on the line, he can add uh some substance to the discussion if there's still a need for uh more clarity.

Thank you, Mr. Manager. I'm uh looking for Mr. Mlesco's memo as it is a um as the deputy mayor has indicated, it is involved with uh multiple uh divisions within parks, recreation, and leisure. And and Mr. Mayor, if we can come back to that to when um Mr. Molesco is is situated at home, he he was traveling, then we can circle back and provide more understanding of this this item that uh understandably uh people need to you need to um understand before you vote. So, I'm sorry to use understand so many times. [laughter]

Did you have any? Not yet. Okay. Not yet. We're almost there. I don't know why we're not finishing up, but Okay. I have nothing to say at this point.

Council Mahan. Uh thank you, Mayor Harrington. Um I don't have a don't have an exact number for this. I don't remember uh the number. Um, but I I do want to see what that fully year um a full year u management and non-union um uh GWI what that looks like. I don't recall what that number is. Do you remember, Director?

$200,000. I would like to see that instead of uh the 34,000. Um what um in addition to that I would like to see um further reductions to the operations and communications budget um beyond just the 156,000. Um, and you know, I want everyone to know that these decisions do not come easy and they don't come with thought. They're they're very difficult decisions because the staff here are very impactful. A lot of folks um that I've had great experiences with. So it it doesn't doesn't come easy at all, but the the position demands um weighing our responsibility to the residents of this town. Um so the I mean these decisions and these these cuts, they do not come easy uh weighing them, but um but they're necessary. Um so I I do want to see that. what's uh difficult for me to I do want to hear um also some um get more context on the that reduction public works but also um I saw the elimination the elimination of three uh FTEEs for the police department was that is that taken into account here already and 900,000 I I don't see how we can possibly do that I wouldn't like to see that um in our in our budget. So I would like to add that 175 back in and use the use the reduction the

further reduction in the communications budget to compensate for that addition. So

sorry I meant 270. My apologies. My apologies. Not 175. 270. [clears throat] Where is he? That's why I'm asking if that's factored in here already. Yes, it is. It is fac It is factored in jail. It is not. That's why there's a zero on your long sheet. Mr. Mayor, if I may. Middle part. Hold on. Let Hill.

Thank you. So, my my prior remarks about the way this is structured was with regard to the top box, which is why I led with we were focused on the top box. council has since moved to the second box. In the second box for clarity, the suggested column is as the title indicates, but the middle column that says available um is what you all have to consider and the note off to the right explains it. So, as councelor Mahan has suggested the second line item under police uh which suggests 270,000 but shows that zero is available and the note indicates that there are four FTEEs held vacant in the town council recommended budget. So, for clarity, in the town council's recommended budget, there are four FTEEs held vacant. And then there's an italicized uh statement at the end that says additional patrol reductions create staffing issues.

So, is this is are the elimination of the three FTs that that's in addition to the four that are being held vacant? No, it's that there were three uh that were there were four that were initially uh indicated to be held vacant and while council's deliberations were occurring there was a position filled which is why during deliberations I showed it as three. Got it. The chief then identified uh an additional position to hold vacant which is why we have in the town council recommended budget four vacant FTEEs in the police department.

Okay. And if we uh restore one more of those positions, what would that look like? Um I can give you an estimated value. Sure. Give me a moment. Was off your budget. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, I I just I can't see holding

for FT's vacant. They're they're already having a tough time um tough time with patrols. 3.3

in addition.

[clears throat]

in addition. I would like to Okay, we already have that factored in. No. I know approximately $130,000.

Okay. Can I also see what that further reduction to operations and communications would look like? I want I wanted to get down to the uh fiscal year 2025 actuals from um the 88,000 that's proposed. though getting that budget down to 542,000 instead of the 88,000 [clears throat] and sorry 840,000 824 that's what I'm seeing here down to the 540 to 54 to176 so a further reduction of $298,000 that's in addition to the 156

um that is A good point. I think no, that includes the 156. My apologies. So, a further reduction of 141,000 and 766.

Council Mahan, can I move to Council Cooper? Excuse me. It's okay. Excuse me. Please, sir, I can get you out of the market. Yeah, please be quiet. So, I also do want to see what it looks like with that 200,000 you mentioned from the uh fouryear management and non-union. Mr. Mayor, if I may, just point of clarification, um hap happy to do whatever is is we're doing. Um as individual counselors ask, might I add them in? That's why multiple scenarios is helpful. I

mean, it's how we did deliberations previously, but we started the meeting in a different way and I just want to make sure that I'm doing what it is that the council wants me to do. So, this is further reduction. We did caucus. Uh we did not unfortunately caucus with the other side. Um, but most of what was discussed was agreed and we had intended to move forward with that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, council man, are these the two that you want to see or are there other

also the non-management and oh, sorry, the management and non-union GWI that you mentioned like $200,000 or something to the effect something like that. Wait. I'm thinking So actually um

it's in part uh it's part of the it's part of uh the 965 that includes two months. So this would be 10 months. Um so 151 17 [sighs] step There's nothing. There's one. Okay, I think I'll uh stop there for now and then just in in hopes that we're going to have another round. Is that the case?

Council Cooper, that that was a question. Are we going to have another round? We'll see. Not certain. We'll see. Lovely. Councelor Cooper. Yes. Uh one one second. U Mr. Mayor, I just I wanted to look at something from gray to glossy color real quick. So are we're we're doing what we want for add-ins or removals right now. Is that what we're doing? Yes.

All right. Uh the comms and ops uh cut was 120,000. Correct. Total 1568.882. Uh I I only want to see that at 120. I unless that was, you know, some consensus I you know or no. Yes. Go ahead. That's with uh fringe benefits. Okay. So we so so you can the available is 156 as it stands, right?

All right. So I want to see that. I want to see the 150 out of the permit. building and zoning. Uh the 44 out of building and land use, the 132 943 out of the town clerk's office, and the 110 636 out of the tax collector's office. Um, councelor, if you would confirm that those are the four line items immediately below operations and communications 156882.

Yes. And I can repeat them if if you'd like, but unless you have them. No, if it's the four, I I have them. Okay. Thank you. Just a point of clarification. Uh most of those are union too. Two are union. They're all They're all They're all They're all union. And And if you impact our ability to um do buildings and inspections and collect um fees, then you're literally taking away revenue. So for each person you look to impact with that uh you're taking away significant revenue for us.

So where we're saving what you see as a salary but we [clears throat] are eliminating revenue to the town and it's going to be that much longer of a process to approve everything else. We can put the building clarification we can put the building and land use back of information. Okay just one second Mr. Mayor. So, we can put the B building and land use back in.

Um, but for me, um, if the chief, uh, uh, Bluefield PD is willing to let those positions go, uh, for right now. Um, take I would like to see those taken out. Um, and I will explain myself. Um the reason why I am saying all of this is because if the town finds itself in a dilemma that it is not able to perform up to par that these positions be added back in again and that special uh uh some special circumstances um if a a hiring freeze is instituted be allowed. allowed for the town manager to circumvent that and to add these positions in

one of information Harrington. Thank you. Thank you, Council H. So I I guess a quick question because I'm I'm a bit confused here. um the Democrats caucus and you came out of that caucus with recommendations but then councelor Cooper who is also a Democrat has separate recommend is he representing a different Democratic party or is it the same Dem I'm confused here point of order Mr. Mayor that is [clears throat] just not a good question to ask and certainly isn't any of council man's business

and just that we move on thank you Mr. Wait one one one moment. One moment. Councelor Cooper was not in the caucus for the bulk of that conversation. So he some of the ideas that he is presenting were not with the the five of us that that met. So we are open to his suggestions, but we just want to clarify that he was not in that caucus. Okay. So they do or don't represent. He was in the caucus. He got disconnected. Just Just being clear. He was disconnected. He was disconnected. Just being clear.

So obviously he had some thoughts as well. I don't know. Thoughts. Okay. Thank you. So at this moment, each counselor has had an opportunity this round to buy their ads and reductions. Just one moment.

Just one moment. Can you clarify if The permit uh building and zoning position is uh union. That's uh 150,952. Yeah, that's a union position, sir. Okay, Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry. I did ask for that to to not be on the block. Okay. Thank you.

There was no movement. It was just a question that uh Okay. Yeah. Uh Council Beth Brown,

while we have to make difficult decisions, we have to make difficult decisions. Are there any non-union employees that we can look at? Are there any other positions that we can look at? At the end of the day, I get it. Union, non-union, I understand that, but we will have to make some difficult decisions during this budget season. So if there's other employees, other places that we can look, give us those options as well.

Thank you. Uh councelor Deb and Brown, in the second area, there are quite a number of positions that have already been identified as being eliminated. The zeros represent that. Okay,

I'm not talking about the zeros. Counselor Cooper wants to take everybody out and then we're being told that there are people here that are union people. So, the uh the town clerk is union, the tax collector is union. Um building and land use, I just think I heard that they're union. permit building zoning their union.

I do have one uh recommendation regarding building and land use and that's the elimination of the half of TE. I believe that is $44,21. Yes.

Oh, so yep. But we have a lot more than we have a we have a lot more than that in in in the the the grand scheme of things. There's there's more that we're going to to need. So I think it's it's only fair to bring the council all the information necessary so that we can make the best decisions possible. That's all I'm asking for. So my question is when we met and we started delving through all of this, we were pretty settled except for a couple of underlying areas. We've now sort of opened up.

No, no, no, no. That was counselor Cooper when we met. Right. The one that we were kind of stuck on was the town clerk. And then we heard that there were other suggestions made that we don't have here to consider. That's what I heard. So, what I'm asking for is the other suggestions that we can consider. That's all I'm asking for. Give me all the information so I can make the best decision. Thank you. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, Mr. T manager, we know that you looked at other departments in addition to um the middle of the page. I know that you spoke with all of your directors regarding other positions that had or did did not have potential for um reduction. So, for example, I'll say there's a department that's already at three and that's kind of industry standard and based on their workload, three would be the minimum. So, maybe that director, I'm just kind of making up a scenario, said to you, we can't go below this because we actually need another person. Can you elaborate on some of the other positions that were contemplated or departments that were looked at? And if they're not on here, can you give us a little insight on why? And if there is anything else that would be able to be considered, I guess for me would be a clarifying question.

And thank you, Madame Deputy Mayor. If you're asking me for a complete analysis of the town, um I can tell you that that's a very robust study and effort that takes um more time than was allotted for me to get here. I took the guidance of council understanding the areas in which you were willing to have a reduction in services and I made um decisions. I I provided them all to you right and and everything on this list you can execute if you like but but just understand it's not a snapping of the finger and uh they're going to be repercussions that you cannot experience and know of until they occur. So if if the council wants to get to this point, then okay, that's what we'll do, right? But there's going to be ramifications to this that are not being thought out well at this moment. And um and that's the reality of it. So when I put together my town manager identified potential cuts that was given thorough analysis to understand the impact of of of services and um and and how we believed that the services to the town would not be compromised. When you talk about taking a um someone from the tax collector's office that's a threeperson office. I have one p two of them of which serve at the counter. So now you're talking about reducing that to two. Now I'm going to have the tax collector herself and one of the two clerks. Now she has to leave her duties to now become a clerk at the window. So once again we'll do as directed but this is where we are. you know, this is where we are and uh and I just hope there's an understanding and appreciation that um that that the due diligence was given and um and if you want to reduce further, just tell me what to do and and I'll do it.

Um [clears throat] right. Okay. This this listener on the screen Mayor Harrington. Yeah. Um, may I add one more suggestion?

[clears throat] that.

Thank you. Um, so I, you know, I do want to see, uh, some of these positions, uh, make their way back into the budget. But before we go there, um, I do remember an IT department where we operate, at least on the town side, with um, I think it was I can't remember if it was two or three people uh, were able to operate that IT department um, uh, in previous years. Um, and it was a bit of a stretch. Um, but I think I think it's still possible to operate the IT department with three people. So, I do want to see what that would look like. Uh, what it would look like if we uh eliminated uh one of the positions.

I got I got T to Uh, councelor. Oh, okay. Manager, can can I see what it looks like first? Um, position. Um, I Well, we'll uh can we look at both the um I guess let's let's look at the let's look at the assistant director position and see what that looks like. respond.

Once again, folks, I mean, this is it's not easy and it's not something that we're taking lightly at all, but we do have to consider all possibilities. Um, so I, you know, for any of the any of the members of staff that are listening, this isn't something that we're taking lightly at all. It's agonizing things about, you know, these are actual people, but council to actually fully consider it. Apologies. Uh the town manager would like to respond to. Can I see what it looks like first before the town manager replies? Yes. Okay. And does that include the um is that the full compensation?

Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um and I do respect what um councelor Mahan is saying, particularly when he says he doesn't take it lightly. So sir, as a result of not taking it lightly, can you please share with us what analysis you've actually conducted, what observations of our IT uh department that you've actually conducted and um and your understanding of industry um standards to help us keep ourselves in a position where we would be not impacted by cyber attacks. because what you're talking about and doing is uh tearing at the meat and fabric of protecting this town from cyber attacks. And I know what that means as a former director of the Connecticut Intelligence Center. So I I understand you're not taking it lightly. If you can please share your knowledge that you're basing that decision on, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh thank you, town manager. No, this isn't based off of any analysis of cyber security or anything any of that. um that's that's more your field than mine. What this is based off of is the residents that I know and I've come across and have said that they're sick and tired of the tax increases and can't afford more tax increases. So, like I said, I'm not taking this lightly and it may require us to look at things that make us uncomfortable and uh you know, things that give us pause, but we we have to take a look at it. uh we and so I'm putting up all possibilities like the rest of my colleagues have u the rest of my colleagues haven't listed any uh any studies or uh analysis or whatever the sort that you're requiring from me but um we have to look at all possibilities um I've seen this department operate leaner um it it's not the most ideal like I stated before but I have seen it be possible We've seen it in previous uh in previous budgets. It it is possible. Um like I said, once again, not ideal. None of this is ideal. We wish it it would be best if we could have uh passed a budget with no increase in all the positions and all the services, but that's not reality. So, we have to start looking at how we can reduce things. I and I I appreciate that you've even looked into your own office for for a reduction. You know, those are the things that that we need to see. Not an easy decision, but necessary.

And Mr. Mayor, can I speak to him? Sure. When I'm not interested in back and forth with the town manager, honestly, he's not a counselor.

He's not a counselor. What I would like the public to know and and this council to be aware of are our increase in staffing. It is necessary for us to be able to provide the town the protections it needs. When your first acquaintance with our IT department was had in terms of IT technology changes leap years in shorts amount of time. So what we're facing and and what we're at consequence and risk of is putting this town, this municipality, and this was the first thing I addressed coming over to the town of Bloomfield because of my experience. I do not want us to be held hostage by a foreign adversary because of our inability to protect ourselves. And what you're talking about is making us vulnerable to foreign adversaries. And I know what that means. And I'm trying to share that knowledge with you because this is not the concept of operation when it first started in the town of Bloomfield. Things change, things evolve, and if you understand technology, you know that. And not only is it impacting us, now we have a a a crossjurisdictional relationship of shared services with our our board of ed as well. You're talking about putting the board of ed at risk also. So, if we want to do that and and hold us hostage to millions of dollars uh to save that $150 uh thousand dollars you're pointing out there, that's a council decision and I respect it. But I just need you to do some analysis.

My understanding come to these conclusions because you don't understand the second and third. My understanding is that the only the only employee that we're sharing with the board of education is the director. Are we also sharing the assistant director with the board of education? There's some help that he's providing as well. But that's the but that's the director of the director. If the board of ed contacts us and needs assistance, he's going to answer the call. Okay. And we're we we need we need to move. Okay. We have councelor Cooper and then we're going to go line by line. Oh, councelor Cooper Oliver and then we're [clears throat] going to go line by line.

Okay. Thank Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um there were actually uh two more changes. I think we added in we added in uh senior services I think right if I'm not mistaken [snorts] and uh senior service and the social service reduction correct

I I would still like to see those reductions um placed back in uh you know as councelor Mahan has has said um there some of these are very tough decisions and and I get that uh you know, everybody wants everything, but that's that's not going to happen. We may put them back in, but I at this point in time, I think that the pain needs to be spread out. Uh and and it needs to be uh the weight needs to be evened across uh the town of Bloomfield. Um we might have our favorite things, whether it's the police department. I also think that those positions need to be uh put back in as being remove well be put on the removal list uh you know where those positions are are not um will not come online. So I want to see those uh put back in as not coming online and the senior and social services I want to see those as not being put uh back in online um along with the other cuts that I've suggested. uh this is going to be across the town. If it's going to be I don't think that we're going to have we should not have a department um bear a lot of weight where we seem to be losing um you know some of our uh leadership things of that nature and some who uh hopefully have uh you know folks in place. But again that is not my point. My point is is that this needs to be shared and spread out. You can always go back and put some things in, but if they're already in, your budget remains at a high number. And so if you're trying if we're trying to get

to uh a lower number, let's get to the lower number first and then go with our priorities. I know that the town manager certainly has some uh others have some for other reasons, but I think that those all of the cuts that have been proposed need to be put in and then removed. Right? We we are going back and forth about what we want to see in. Let's just take out everything. Take it out and start from there. What is a priority? What do you want to pay for? What do you want your rate to be? What do you want your tax increase to be? That's how we get there. It's not going back and forth, putting in this, taking out that, doing that, doing that in that fashion. We're going line by line. We're It's It's It's a long process. Put everything in for a cut.

Right. Thank you, Council. Yeah. Thank you. Uh, Councelor Oliver, and then Deputy Mayor Lloyd. Thank you, Mayor. Um, my answer, my question was already answered. Well, my statement was already made that um not to down counselor Mahan's um proposal. I just wanted to acknowledge that they also work for the board of education. So, there's a crisscross there. That's all I wanted to mention. Thank you, Deputy Mayor Lloyd.

Um through you, Mr. Mayor. I just kind of want clarification from councelor Cooper on what you just mentioned about social services and senior services additional reductions that was put in as a no. That's why they were put back under additions. You want those taken out so that they would suffer further cuts. I just want to be clear because we'll be having to go down in order and that exactly. Yes, ma'am. Okay.

Um I do have one more question for Mr. Town Manager. Um on this list in the middle it says building and land use suggested 170 available 144 eliminate 1.5 FTE. So why is it only 44,000? Where's the other remaining amount of the 170? What is that attributed to? If only 44201 is available just to understand that. So for example, town manager's office says 175 suggested. It says zero because that's already been baked in. Right. Mhm.

If we look at ops and communications, it says suggested 120. That's salary. And then available is 156882 including fringes. Right. No, I follow the question. Let me ask um Mr. Hill if he can explain that. I don't know it off the top of my head. So, um, Mr. Hill, can you bring some clarity to that, please? Yes. Mhm. Bear with me. No, we didn't. We didn't take away a full time to play.

[clears throat] Uh, that is an error on my part. The formula should include the additional 148,101 for the full-time FTE. in your room. My apologies. I'm sorry, Director Hill. Could you say that again?

That is an error on my part. The formula includes the half FTE, but not the full FTE. The adjusted amount with me one second. The full FT is valued at 148,101, which would bring that line item up to a total of 1 192302. And that would be one FTE, not one and a half. That would be one and a half FTEES. It is one full FTE and one half FTE, right?

Both of which are union Uh the half FTE is union and the one FTE uh full FT I believe is not but let me confirm it is management. Okay, thank you. Okay. [snorts] Um Yeah.

Um so, Mr. Mayor, if we look at this list um with recommendations across the aisle and from both sides, if we could kind of revisit the model that we did or the exercise a couple of weeks ago and just go down the list and get a vote from the body here um so that we can see what is being supported and I think that will move us closer to understanding what we can accept as a budget at this point. But we do need to speak as a body to each one of these items. Can we please um run through that exercise one by one, council by council on a roll call vote to see where the support is for these things at this point and apologies to the public in advance because the way some of these are worded, you're kind of voting in the inverse. If you want something, you're voting no. And so we have to be very mindful as we kind of go through these questions the impact of our yay and nay based on whether it says remove or

say that again one correct 95 614 um if you're referring to the building and land use question that I Jay just asked about that is not included in the in the scenario so it doesn't impact anything here by phone. So it would affect it if we used everything on the list and we have not. So we're just plugging in any additional cuts into this model. So these are just for consideration. Thank you. And I'm I apologize because I shouldn't have taken a question from the floor but because there was an air

because I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm not the mayor. I cannot recognize you but I will finish. Our apologies. Our apologies because there was not to be any banter back and forth. I

um I apologize for opening that up with you, sir, but because a director uh said that he had made an error, I felt it worth answering your question for clarification for everybody. Um, I defer to the mayor, but I had already asked a question if we could please move through this list and refine this list by way of vote in the affirmative or negative or abstension so that we can get closer to determining what a budget might look like tonight. If we could please do that exercise, I would appreciate that. Let's move forward.

Thank you. Y thank you so as we begin at the top of the list regarding proposed additional reductions or additions that were based on proposed reductions. Starting from the top, Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we remove the social service reduction of 42,374. I make a motion that we remove the social service protection. There's a second. Uh all those in favor I want a roll call. You want a roll call? Yeah, probably. Roll call. Thank you.

Uh councelor Cooper. Councelor Cooper. That'll take all night. No. Uh councelor dean Brown. Yes. Council Mahan. Yes. Council Oliver, yes. Council Merritt, yes. Councelor uh Goodman, yes. Uh Deputy Mayor, yes. Right. And Mayor uh Harrington, yes. So, the motion passes. Mr. Mayor, regarding removing the senior services reduction of $40,000, I make a motion we remove the senior services reduction of $40,000. Second.

Second. May May Harrington, may I ask that we do a roll call and if we hear any dissenting voices, then we go into a um you do roll call in the event any dissenting Yeah. If we hear any dissenting voices, then we do a roll call. That'll move much quicker. Um I I think um we had gotten direction a few weeks ago entering into this um most particularly this endeavor that for the purposes of our minutes, it would be most advantageous if we had a roll call vote on every item such as these. But if there are no dissenting voices on a vote and that means everyone has approved it. You just check everybody. That's just and you go in call if need be.

I hear you. Councelor Cooper. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, I vote yes. Uh, councelor Dean Brown, yes. Councelor Mahan, yes. Uh, Council Oliver, yes. Council Merritt, yes. Uh, Council Goodwin, yes. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, yes. And Mayor Harrington, yes. Okay, that motion passed. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I make a motion we remove the library reduction of $4,000. Second. I have a question, Marington. I I do want to note from uh Director Lane, how much because it it indicates here um

Oh, where is it? Oh, jeez, I lost it. Um it says it said training and PT. Yeah, there it is. There it is. PT hours. Um education, training. How much of that is PT hours? How much of that is education, training? That is all for education and training. Yes, that's our entire education and training line. Yes. None of it is for part-time hours. Correct. That was a leftover from Monday's document that we all received. Okay. So, that they just didn't cross out that one little part. Okay. Okay. Because I was looking to restore the part-time hours.

Absolutely. It was 54,000 on Monday. So, they just low typo. There we go. No error. So, yes. Okay. Thank you, Council Cooper. Oh, was it okay? So, should I repeat the motion? Second. I made the motion that we remove the library reduction. It was seconded by Council Dean Brown. Yes. Okay. Uh, Council Cooper, yes. Uh, councelor Debeam Brown, yes. Council Mahan, no. Uh, council Oliver, yes. Council Merritt, yes. Uh, councelor Goodwin, yes. Uh, Deputy May Lloyd, yes. And Mayor Harrington, yes. Motion passes.

Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we remove one FTE from ops and comms in the dollar amount indicated at 156882. Second. It is seconded. So, um, uh, Council Cooper, no. Uh, councelor Dean Brown, yes. Council Mahan, yes. Councelor Oliver, yes. Council Merritt, yes. Councelor Goodman, yes. C. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, yes. And yes for Mayor Harrington. The motion passes.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I make a motion of a further reduction of ops and comms in the amount of 141,766. Is there a second? Second. Second. Okay. Uh, Council Cooper, yes. Councelor Dan Brown, yes. Councelor Mahan, yes. Council Oliver, yes. Councelor Merritt, no. Councelor Goodwin, no. Deputy Mayor Lloyd, no. Mayor Harrington, no. Uh so we have we are deadlocked at four.

I think there may have been a misunderstanding. So understanding this motion was to further reduce ops and comms putting them at approximately I don't know 297 whoever correct my math almost 300,000 in total reductions. Yeah. Like do you agree with the reduction? A further reduction. Further reduction. So yes. Do would you like me to take out more? It'll essentially you take out Okay. So, so I need to It appears that the question was not understood. May I repeat the motion? Yes.

So, the motion again based on recommendation from councelor Mahan was to further reduce in addition to the 156 an additional 141766 from ops and comms. Okay. Councelor Cooper. Councelor Cooper. No. Okay. Uh, councelor Debean Brown. Yes. Council Mahan. Yes. Council Oliver, no. Council Merritt, no. Councelor Goodman, no. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, no.

And Mayor Harrington, no. One, two, three, four, five. Mr. Mayor, oh, you finished counting. Thank you, sir. So, I make a motion that the management and non-union GWI add 10 months for a total of 170,000. Second. And may I also ask Mayor Hington that everyone uh votes with their mics on? I don't know if everyone's mic is on when they're voting. Mics on. I don't know of anyone that isn't. Okay. Is it possible to make a friendly amendment to that motion? Absolutely.

Instead of 12 months, can we do 6 months? I [clears throat] would accept that happily. I make a motion, Mr. Mayor, the management and non-union GWI add 10 months or add 6 months total of 6 months from the two-month delay. It would have that amount needs to be adjusted so I could call it out. It' have to be agreed to by whoever second finance director would like the floor for so I will await the actual number looking just for clarification Mr. Mayor um in the first item the 965 there are two months delay of management and non-union GWI.

Mhm. This line item number seven was to make it a full year and is it looking for an additional four months? Four. Thank you. Thank you for a total of six. Does it have to be accepted by the person that motioned and seconded? I believe so. Yes. I don't accept that. Okay. Brenia meant fails. Still friends. Absolutely.

I'm waiting for the adjustment on the number. Yep. Probably we don't have to adjust the number anymore. We just have to right the um well point of order. I'd actually like to check whether my whether the motioner is the only person that has the latitude to accept the friendly amendment because you had stated that you did not. And so now where does that put us? Because I did. We have to vote on the motion now and you can vote down if you'd like. Mr. Mayor, uh point of point of order, point of clarification. Council

the person who makes the motion is the only one who has to accept the friendly amendment or not per Robert's rules not [clears throat] the person who is that from our motion. Okay. Okay. So, can we possibly get add four months and find out what that total is so we could have it for the record as the motioner speaking? I think that would be an additional 68,000. Yeah.

Four months would be 68,000. Additional four months for a total of six. Yes. The two months are already baked in. additional four months would have a $68,000 value. Okay. Thank you. So, I'll repeat the motion. And if you'd like to change it on screen, instead of add 10, add four. That's I'll leave that to you. But management and non-union GWI add four months for a total of 6 months. It says 10.

Is this a new line item or was the amendment to the prior request? an amendment to that line item that we made a motion for the 10 months a friendly amendment was recommended by councelor debum brown for a total of 6 months so we would add four to there we go okay so I'll go back and read it again so we have the number and it's clean management and non-union GWI add four months for a total of 68,000 I'm going to ask that second there's Okay. Okay. Uh, council Cooper, yes. Uh, councelor Debon Brown, yes. [clears throat]

Council Mahan, no. Council Oliver, yes. Council Merritt, no. Uh, Council Goodwin, yes. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, yes. Mayor Harrington, yes. The motion passes. Uh, Mr. Mayor, uh before we move on, could I ask uh through you um Director Hill to slide that uh screen up so that we can see the rest of the um line items we're going to be voting on, please? The line items. Yes, Mr. Mayor, there is nothing below.

Uh we can't we can't see it online though, per se. Yeah. So, just right. Oh, just a little more up. A little more up, Mr. Hill. I'm trying to size it so that you can see the mill rate and the increase at the top as well. Thank you for that. Also, Director Hill, can you see the entire screen, Council Cooper? Yes, ma'am. So, the there are eight line items. 10. 10. Okay. Uh yeah, I well I can see up to number eight, but you know um

yeah so well he'll move it up but I think the important part as well is to see the mill rate and the percent increase. Um yes ma'am which is the driving factor for this whole conversation. So, um I believe we are at town clerk eliminate one FTE in the amount of $132,943. Second. Council Cooper. Yes. Council Debean Brown.

Oh. This is regarding the town clerk one. Yes. Uh, council man. No. Uh, council Oliver. Yes. Council Merritt. No. Uh, councelor Goodwin. No. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd. No. Mayor Harrington. No. One, two, three, four, five.

The motion does not pass. Yes, we got five. Five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that the tax collector eliminate one FTE in the amount of $110,636. Second. Motion is seconded. Uh, Council Cooper. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. So, um, through you, uh, Deputy Mayor, voting yes, right? Eliminates that means that they do eliminate the one FTE, right? Yes. Yes. Yes, it does. Okay. Cuz it all right. Cuz it seemed as if it was working backwards there for a second. So

some of them are, but this one is straightforward. Straightforward. Okay. I think you did say that, Deputy Mayor. What? You did say that it would be like the ones at the top there. [clears throat] You mentioned that previous straightforward. Yeah. Councelor Cooper, very clear. Yeah. So my vote is yes. Councelor Death and Brown. No. Councelor Mahan, no. Uh councelor Oliver on the tax collector, no. Uh, councelor Merritt, no. Uh, councelor Goodwin, yes. Councelor, uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, no.

Mayor Harrington, no. So, motion pass. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The last motion will be it eliminate deputy director 160900 $160,900. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Is seconded. Uh, councelor Cooper, no. Councelor Dean Brown, no. Councelor Mahan, yes. Councelor Oliver, no. Councelor Merritt, no. Uh, councelor Goodwin,

no. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, no. and Mayor Harrington. No. Motion passes. Uh, councelor Merritt. Uh, I I'm going to mention that on this bottom list, um, which I don't completely understand which one's where we what's in, what's out, the zeros, I guess, are in. And, uh, I don't ever remember voting on these. Uh, I certainly haven't, but uh, so maybe I was missing sometime. Well, that one I understand.

The zeros represent whatever the four cops. I don't She's not worried about can uh, you did vote on Bington. Well, I'm uh Council Mahan,

I I do want to revisit our discussion on the um on the retirement incentive plan and perhaps walking some of that back. Um, now we I discussed it earlier and I I would like to see us actually discuss perhaps reversing it because it it seems like or um altering it because it it does seem like there's an appetite for that on the council at least from what I've heard from my colleagues that there's an appetite to at least alter the current incentive program that's that's in place. Um, I would like to see it completely eliminated. Um, but I know that we at least have an appetite to change it a bit.

Can we explore what that what that would look like? It's not a done deal. Do not um [clears throat]

these were from here. Um, and they did not build an land just Yeah. Was that a motion? Are you making a motion?

Just put it out there for us. I was just putting it out there for us to explore that further because uh I' I heard some folks murmur about um not being too happy with the current incentive uh program and wanting to see that changed a bit. Um I want us to explore also complete elimination of it. Uh so you know those are a couple conversations to have. I I understand that it's going to change these figures right now. Um but you know I guess one of one of two things if uh folks the town manager would probably say you know we of course cannot uh hold anyone here and and if folks want to leave they will of course leave but um incentivizing them to leave. You know if they're going especially if their mind is already made up to leave anyway to pay them to leave seems uh a bit counterintuitive. But um I do want to at least hear my colle the colleagues that did want to alter this program. I know councelor Goodwin had a suggestion that he put out there and flushed through quite a bit. I do want to hear what some of my colleagues um would like to recommend for that.

Deputy Mayor Lloyd

and I'll leave it to the body to decide if they want to move forward to have the numbers crunched on that. But distinctly, I remember the variance between the current model and councelor Goodwin's model was about $75,000 a $75 difference on the incentive um to take the retirement. So, if we look at what we have right now, we're at a 3.07. Again, I'm not saying not to go through the exercise, but distinctly he brought forward with his model um being a little bit different structured upon um a band of years of service like 10 to 15, 15 to 20, 20 and more um with an incremental increase in the incentive based on those jumps. It was about $75,000. So, if you think about that variance,

I think it was a little bit more than that. Um, the most conservative one was like 75 or 78, but it wasn't over 80,000 per model. We have the sheet. It was hand. I know. I I Yeah, it's probably in my car, but when we're talking about 178 compared to 78, I think that's a little big difference. So, I can I talk? Sorry. Um, the I have two thoughts here. The first one is in baked in the current model are conversations that have already been had.

I am uncomfortable with asking people with under one scenario having that conversation with them getting a commitment and then doubling back to shift that and again the group could be feel different about that but that was where I said my vacasillation was for me. I I wish before the conversations had been had we had settled on this. But I I I don't want to do a bait and switch model where we had these conversations, people made decisions based on that information and then they pulled back. On the other alternative, I will offer that the model that I proposed wasn't just about the immediate savings. It was about the impact in future years. And so the what there is a big gap between the savings we would have made on that model I proposed in future years versus the immediate savings. So I just wanted to clarify that. So to me it's a little bit bigger than just the immediate 70s something thousand or more. It would be how this would impact our budgets in future years because we're going to be here in this conversation again. I'm willing to stand down on that though with you. I don't want to have conversations with people, have them make serious decisions of this magnitude and then pull it back right

now that we're in the budget conversations. And I know it's not set in stone and nobody signed anything, but it to me it's just not a way that I would want to do business in terms of employees lives. But again, it's open to everybody. That's just my two cents.

Councelor Dean Brown. So, while I empathize, right, I was the one who probably voted against it and still don't believe that we should be incentivizing people to leave. I also am a little not confused. I don't quite understand the idea of losing all this institutional knowledge because if say I was here for 30 years and yes I'm at retirement stage but I wasn't going to retire because I love my job and I have all this knowledge and I want to help people but now that you're incentivizing me to retire well of course I'm going to retire. Um, so I I I stand on the fact that I honestly don't believe that we should be incentivizing retirees. This is extra money coming out of our budget that could go someplace else to the library, to the police department, to it, to whatever. Um, so I don't agree with it. However, as I said before, it's a little bit more palatable if we're saying to someone, "Okay, we're going to give you x amount of money for your years of service." That doesn't equate to someone's part-time job, right? So, I I thoroughly don't agree with that at all. Um,

but I I I Shamar, we might be in the minority here um with with this situation and it's absolutely okay. I think we're close to that. Um I do have another question, but maybe you want to finish this conversation first. Yeah. I'd like to call on councelor Cooper who has his hand raised about this topic because I do. Yes. So can I just ask the the the director to probably try to get some information from me in the meantime? Director Hill, can you give me the percentage? I know we've had this conversation before, but the whole percentage of the increase. We're going to do this again. What things are you referring to?

So, the other day when we um uh maybe you can explain it a little bit better. I you know cuz every time every time we get to this project, it's like I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, sure. I'll pull it up.

Thank you. [laughter] Well, last week we left off at a 3.51 that we'd hoped to achieve with the ECS money and the tax increase on average more or less depending on your home value and the results of your reval was 7.78. So now here we look at a 3.07. So one thing we can rely upon is that it's likely to be less than that as a average tax increase. Am I remembering right? 7.78 based on a 3.51 and right now we're sitting less than 3.51

while while Director Hill is compiling that information. Uh Councelor Cooper,

thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um I just a couple of things. um you know did thought about the the revisiting um but that with Council Goodwin weighing in certainly and I I do I do agree fully with him that we've actually already gone through the exercise. Um and I'm going to say something on a personal side. Uh I think that you know us going back and forth um with some employees who may be affected. I don't think that is fair to them. I I truly don't. I just, you know, that that sticks somewhere, you know, in my craw that I just I don't like it. Uh and I think that, you know, the town manager knows his staff. He probably went to them with the best, you know, [snorts] that he could could offer and folks are probably locked into that now. I don't think it would be fair to pull things back, number one. And so um yes, most of us agreed to it and I think we should just move on with it. There may be the two counselors, you know, certainly council methan brown has pointed out that she and councelor man are probably, you know, the the two dissenters. Uh and so I would am not in favor. I would not second it. I would not vote for us going back on what has already transpired and that we move forward. And lastly, um there was the uh adjustment to the uh offer uh to swing it out for some months in order for um there to be some transition. So uh as you know, folks who probably do want to um Awesome. Thank you. uh but they're they're pro the folks who who who who want to pour into people they are going to have ample time to be able to do that and so again I

support the move as it is as it stands and we just go ahead and move forward. Uh certainly being able to do that and having reduced this budget uh once again I think shows successful smart and collaborative work in getting it done. Thank you. Thank you, Director Hill.

I um yes, as is shown on the screen at 34.40 for the two properties from uh council's prior deliberations. Example one and example two. Example one is at a home value. Um last year that was at 250 or I'm sorry, this year that's at 256 thou 50,000 um with the uh average increase. And similarly for a home valued at $400,000 this year uh at the average increase uh the yellow highlighted shows the uh mill rate where council currently stands. Thank you.

Um a little bit more. There was a part of I think this window that showed the percentage average percentage tax increase. Oh my mic. There was a part of the screen last week that showed the average tax increase. I don't know [clears throat] that I saved that file. Um, [sighs] do you want to see the percent? Where is it? I'm going to say 7.3. Yeah, I'm going to say 7.3. 7.35. Let's see who's closest.

You can do Is that what you're looking for? 5.8. M [cough and clears throat] um just clarification, if we were at a 3.51 and the average tax increase was around 7.78 and now we're at a 3 0

7. Um I'm not sure it would go that low. Something's missing. I'm just using my Bloomfield math. Born and raised Bloomfield math. I think we're probably closer to seven.5. I said 73. So, let's get a prize and see who wins to go home in a minute.

Well, I um if there uh is a question about the math, I'm happy to talk through it. I'm taking the difference between this $9,434 and the $8,910 and dividing it by the $8,910. And this is the percentage. I think the variability that you're recognizing has to do with uh the average increase, which is uh average increase in assessed value, which is 9.7% townwide. that being used for both examples is why the uh percent increase is the same. An actual home that had, you know, one the $250,000 house has an increase of 35% and the $400,000 house has an increase of 55%. They would return different increases. But because the assessed values shown here are growing at the average the same growth when you couple that with the mill rate growth at three whatever it is they're going to return the same value. I understand you're taking the variance um between the 26 and the 27 um estimated taxes. I get that. And I heard you say that you're basing it on um an average of a little over a 9% increase.

9.7. Okay. 9.7. Yes. 9.7 is the average increase on real estate for residential. So I thought there was like a formula like you take the 3% you probably double that and add something

that that was our layman's that was our layman's number [snorts] because if you take four and a quarter which I I think it bears saying so we've said it in many other meetings but I think it bears repeating because some people have not plugged into previous meetings right so a couple of things we knew coming into this year a few assumptions that we would have to use a couple few million dollars from unassigned fund balance We knew that was a significant possibility. We knew on average that because of the phasing that we would be looking at an average of 4 and a4% tax increase before the budget increase. Right? So last week when we were saying four and a quarter on top of 5.1, it came very close to the number that director Hill had come up with more precisely on his calculation. So, I think that's kind of why we're trying to say it should still maybe be a little more than seven. Yes.

Um cuz last week the numbers were jive in that way and so now based on the calculation they are not. But if we could kind of if we could revisit that because we are not done and I'd like to see um us get to the bottom line and I want to revisit council man's comments because I don't know if he cares to make a motion um on the conversation he began about the retirement incentive notwithstanding all of your colleagues comments. Yes, Mr. Mayor. Councelor, that was uh councelor Mahan. uh we can revisit with you following his comments.

Thank you so much. We'll come back to Todd with that thought. I I'd like to I'd like to motion to um Jeez, I'd like to motion to um eliminate the retirement incentive plan. it. And the reason why I'm having a little bit little bit of difficulties is because I feel like we could probably get more support for the alteration for going to councelor Goodwin's plan, but it seems like

uh most folks are going to vote it down anyway. I'm just motioning. We're not discussing it. We can come back to you. My apologies. Second. I'm just Yeah. thinking out loud. Is there a second? I make the amendment to that later. Do you should I just motion for councelor Goodwin's? Okay. I motion to change the retirement incentive plan uh adjusted to councelor Goodwin's compensation uh package. Is there a second? Okay. Roll call vote. Uh councelor Cooper.

No. Councelor Death and Brown. Councelor Mahan. Yes. Council Oliver. Councelor Merritt. No. Councelor Goodwin. I'm abstaining. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd. No. And Mayor Harrington? No. So, the motion has been motion carried. Carried. Uh, councelor Debe. Oh, I would even at I'm sorry.

Oh. Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Councelor Cooper, you were next and then we'll move. Yes. So, I'm going to I just wanted to go back to you were asking quickly about the [snorts] uh tax increase. So, we are we're at 3.51% the last time. This is very simple math. Uh I think it's uh this is Harford Public High School bath. Um as councelor uh Lloyd likes to say. Um and we are owls. But uh we're at now uh what is it? 3.07. Mhm.

So just take the percentage of the reduction of uh 3 of 3.07 07 from the 3.51 and apply that percentage from the 7.88 and you will come up with the figure that you need and it's around six 6.1 or 6.2 or 3% is what you're going to come up with.

Thank you Brown.

Thank you. So, I have a a request. Um, once again, I'm still asking for the positions that were not being considered um that was suggested that we don't have. So, I'm asking for that. And I'm really also having a very hard time with taking $3.6 million out of fund balance. And I just have I want to get that on the record. I'm having a very hard time taking $3.6 $6 million out of fund balance. So, I would like to get that information. And as far as the other um [clears throat] positions, um I would really like to see um our our average increase to about a 6% total. Um, and I might once again might be in the minority for that, but I just want to put it on the record.

Thank you. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd,

I'm jotting down. Um, you said several things and I think it's fair that we take them one at a time if you want them to be um, properly revisited and maybe discussed. So the first one again I was um the the extra positions that that I think the town manager said had been vetted through his um directors and didn't have feasibility for additional cuts in those departments is what I kind of felt like he said after he he weighed them. But I heard I heard the question you still want to see what that looks like. And then what was the other question? I'm having a hard time I'm having a hard time taking $3.6 $6 million out of fund balance.

$3.665 million to be exact. Can we vote on that? Is that a motion? And then the third one. So, you don't have the floor. I thought so. Point of information, Mayor Harrington. Point of information, Mayor Harrington. I I was asking if there was a motion to be considered. I wasn't making a point. I was just asking clarifying question procedure. I hear you. Okay. If I motion, what's your motion?

Not me. I was asking it sound there was some dialogue there. It sound like a motion was being formulated. So, I wanted to know if there was a motion. I believe there was some questions. Right. I'm asking for information and I'm also stating my disquitude with taking $3.66 million out of the budget. I agree. Do you have a motion to Mhm. Council Dean Brown? Is that a new word? Anyway, um well that's um I won't even tell you Northwest Catholic High School English. Uh anyh who are you ready to make a motion

Mr. Mayor point of clarification before we move to that? Yes that yes so and I will address this statement to Mr. Hill that he clarified that it is 3 million. It is indeed fund balance but 3 million is coming towards the town operations budget but the other 665 uh00,000 is going to alleviate and pay off debt that has nothing to do if I'm correct um it is in the budget but as still coming out of the same pot

I I as again I understand that That is exactly what it is. However, I think the conflating it with the budget, this is a one-time shot. And what it is going to do is position us to um not owe as much debt and to have that that burden be returned back to us with payments that we won't have to make. So through you, Mr. Mayor, I'd like to ask Mr. Hill if that is something if I am correct first of all because I believe I am and what type of impact it does he can he offer right now.

Thank you Dr. Hill.

Um yes there is 3.665 million of unassigned fund balance used in the town council recommended budget. um albeit 665,000 of it is uh for onetime use on debt service. Um they were separated out and continue to be separated out because in the town manager's proposed budget there was no general fund balance applied. It was zero. It was only the debt service line and at the town council recommended there was $3 million added to it on the general fund balance applied line.

Thank you. And and so Mr. Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry. So, Mr. Mr. Hill, uh if you can if you're able, if not, that's fine, too. How does this affect um the uh because it's on the upswing, right, that that that uh debt that we owe? Um what impact will that have on it as far as the debt? Will our payments be less? Will what we we owe be less? And and how does that impact going out into the future? Is there any cost savings that you could identify for us? Just

there there's no ongoing uh benefit or um positive or negative uh impact of using this uh 665,000 of fund balance as was discussed and planned during last year's budget cycle. That this year because our debt service was peaking above $8 million, the plan was to shave the peak off. And that's what the $665,000 is being used for. Okay. And and so that does nothing. It just shaves the peak off. Are you saying? Shaving the peak off is something significant. And thank you.

Proposed budget book, the recommended budget book. Uh under the debt service tab, there's a graphic um that shows the peak in 2027. Um that's what that $665,000 is addressing. Thank you. Uh, councelor Merritt,

I was going to say that uh the we're not really reducing our fund balance um because every year more money goes in as well as comes out. So we have some at least 15% of our budget this year in in uh fund balance and uh we expect to have 15% of our our budget next year in the fund balance at least. So this idea that we're drawing down the fund balance isn't correct. Our estimate is it will still have the required amount in the fund balance. Thank you. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I additionally would like to add that while nobody wants to have to use fund balance, many have said it's a rainy day fund, it's raining, it's pouring, it's a tsunami. If we don't utilize this amount of fund balance, which many times we don't use what was allocated and it comes back, some won't care about more cuts on the town side, but 3 million can't be made up on the town side. So then what does that look like? It looks like BOE, which everybody in here, I believe at one point or another over the 15,000 sessions we've had this budget season, has spoken up for the board of ed. And this 965,000 is just barely covering the gap on the 1.6 million that we initially intended. based on giving credit to councelor Mahan's initial scenario that we started off with, right? Four scenarios three and a half weeks ago, but all the other ones had it too, y'all. We will have to make that up. Where's it going to come from? Don't want to use the 3 million. And I'll say this again, I would love to be able to tap that 4 million, but guess what? If you want to buy a house and you tell the bank you're putting down 10% and then you snatch it back because you have something come up, you can't buy the house no more. We have two applications in Q for our town center development and that's important too. We've been wait I born and raised here. I've been waiting 30 years for some development. I had a bowling alley. I had a movie theater. Not the one you guys know. The one that was Chuck-e-Cheese before it was Windsor Federal.

Some of y'all don't even know what like like what I'm talking about. Buster Brown shoes, right? And all of that. The movie theater was not in the mall. And so if we don't keep that set aside, we're done. It will be another 30 or 40 years. So we need it. So let's cut the 3 million. But we going to have to cut the schools and we'll have to cut five, six, seven, eight other positions. If that's what folks up here want to do, put it out there. make the motion because we're at the point where we know all the dynamics and so I agree with that we should not have to use it if we but we have to otherwise everybody suffers more. It's where we're at. This sucks and I'm being Cindy outside of this room would have said something else. Um, and even with as much as this stinks for us comparatively to other communities, my god, they are in such a worse position. Windsor got hit with the reval in 2023, the year before we did. My family friends are complaining and crying over there as well. They're hurting, but there's so many communities that have the similar mail rate we have and have an even higher increase. We moved at 3.51. We have recaptured at least to equalize the board to the ECS level that we anticipated and now we're down to 3.07. We can do this back and forth as councelor Death and Brown would say all night.

Oh, you said 1:00 a.m. and you was okay with it a couple weeks ago. Yeah, we're where we are. I don't know what more there else is to say. uh councelor person whose taxes are paid by my excuse me excuse me my my community and my rent goes up every month no comments from $150 month which is equalized to a lot of what you residents that own home mayor

experience as well so just to clarify cuz I've been getting bashed online for that I pay in another way my property owner and every apartment dweller's property owner gets a tax increase for that residential multifamily property. So, we all are paying in addition to our motor vehicle. Now, my back is about to be excused for a moment. Thank you, Council Shamar.

Okay. Thank Thank you. Uh, thank you, Mayor Harrington. Um, so you know, I um it's hard for me to to justify the $4 million uh when our our schools are going to be left hollow um as a result. We're going to have a a blooming talent center, but then our schools are underfunded. It just doesn't uh make much sense to me. Um, we can in future at least. Okay, let me go back to when that $4 million was initially allocated, uh, what was stated over and over again was that this money, if we do need it, can get pulled back. But now we're being told no, it cannot get pulled back. the initial idea versus where we are now. We're in two uh there there are two different narratives uh that are being pushed. One when it was initially agreed upon versus what we're hearing now. Um, I think that if we are going to be prudent to ensure that we have that we're maintaining our fund balance, which a lot of our residents uh prioritize, um, but also funding our schools, we should pull back on some of those some of that $4 million that's there just sitting there at this moment and utilize it to ensure that our schools have I I would like to see more. I know my increase was initially 1.5 million, but I would like to see a little bit more for our schools. I may not be [clears throat] able to get to the full number that was proposed uh by the board of education, but I think a little bit more can go a long way. Um, you know, the the statements over the over the previous sessions have definitely been impactful and brought me back to thinking about when I was one of those young people in a Bloomfield public school and how important it was for me

to have that increased staff, to have those folks that were looking out and recognizing when a student was getting left behind to bring them up to speed. Um, you know, my fear is that if we don't increase the funding for our schools, we're going to have more students that are going to get left behind. So, I would like to see um increase more funding for our schools. I and I would like to see that through tapping into that $4 million fund, not using, excuse me, our unassigned fund balance.

Thank you. So, uh, I'm just going to take a moment relative to I'm sorry, uh, just, uh, shares your privilege for a moment. Uh, this money has been talked about at many of our council meetings. And uh I just want to reiterate the fact that that $4 million was set aside to put us in a position

where we could move on the Wittenbury Mall or the downtown project. It required in the proposals that we submitted both to CIF as well as the congressional and senatorial proposals we've recently submitted that we had a $4 million contribution to the project. We can if that money is taken out to any extent eliminates us from contention for those dollars. and the town has said this is what they want and we want to make sure that we ensure the the probability the opportunity for us to get a new downtown center. Um it it's unfortunate the predicament we're in now financially but we have committed to keeping that money set aside until such time as we can use it. Now, for instance, if the next CIF uh grant proposal period shows that we don't get that money or the senatorial or congressional, then that's a time that the town may say, you know what, it doesn't look like it's happening. Um, let's let's take another route. There's even consideration possibly at uh the owner coming back to have discussions. But see, all of the all of this is is is not really uh under question right now. What it is is that we need that $4 million to make the right moves in order to secure that property. And it's rightfully the time for the town to take a more responsible position in obtaining that property. Deputy mayor,

which that property along with all the apartments bring hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue. They contribute to the economic development base on the commercial side, which is what we need to do in Bloomfield so we can reduce a lot of the burden on the residential side. That's why we're here because of the shift from commercial to primary responsibility to the residential. So we need that development as well to offset the taxes and release some of the burden from the residential side. Can we get a motion? Motion.

Are we going to councelor Dean Brown and then Yeah. Thank you. So I I understand that we have to use something from the fund balance. I just thought the three million was the total. So, I want to be very clear about that. And I understand that we probably thought um coming in we were able to take more money out of the fund balance, but I don't think we were thinking that things would be so dire, right? So, that's the only reason why I bring it up, right?

And yes, I believe it's raining now. I believe that we're having a thunderstorm, um maybe a tsunami, but we going to have a typhoon coming cuz I don't think things are going to get any better. And that's why I keep on saying that while we're doing the budget for FY27, we can't just think about FY27 because FY28's going to come and FY29's going to come. So, I don't understand why we're also not looking ahead, right? Um, I did hear someone mention Windsor. Windsor planned for their reval before their reval actually happened, right? So, when they have a mill rate of 28.45, 45 when they planned for the reval or when they're looking at a mill rate of 29.75 and they're bigger than us. They planned and I don't know if we planned for 26 properly or if we planned for 27 properly, but I think we have an opportunity now, right? Right. And I know that everybody wants to vote and you're going to do what you what you feel is right, but I think it was someone at the meeting um on Monday and and and maybe the weeks prior that says whatever we do now is going to show what our priorities is for our town. And I just want us to to be mindful of that when we're talking that we are um taxing our residents when and and I'm just being real with my stuff. I said it the other day. I went to the gas station and I put gas in my car and it was still empty. Like literally, right? I go to the to the grocery store,

there's there's five people in my house and it's ridiculous because by the time I finish grocery shopping, I can cook for Saturday and Sunday. So, I just think we need to be mindful of what we're doing. We all have to tighten our belts. Exactly.

Right. And and and and not sometimes I don't think we we're we're thinking this all the way through. I suggested and I do hope and pray that it will be a part of the budget that we have a hiring freeze should nobody be get and it's in my email so it's not for politics it's an email that I can share with Joe public we need to make sure that that's a part of any decision we make and should nobody be hired and if they were hired so we got to figure it out okay and if we're going to call for a vote tonight with the way things are I can't support it and I might be in the minority and it's okay too.

Thank you. Uh Councelor Goodwin,

um since we're making statements for the record, um I I think for me, I'm trying to ground myself in terms of the fund balance with we can't say both things at the same time. We can't say we want to reduce the tax burden but also save this particular pot of money. they both won't work and I think we've identified so many different things on the table and so for me I do believe that prudent budgeting would be to think about the fund balance in this particular year in this scenario there are a number of things that were not ideal in this budget cycle from planning to information to the fact that we were still in the middle of an audit to all of those things that I hope and we've stated an expectation that those things are corrected, that they are being remedied now so that we wouldn't be in this exact same scenario in the next budget cycle. So, I don't want to I'm not ignoring that this continued issue of the decision made to spread this reval over the next few years won't continue to the word I would use is haunt us over the next few years. But I also am not going to copy paste this exact same scenario of this year onto future budgetary years. 3.6 million is a lot of money to use out of a fund balance and it is desperately necessary right now. We can come back, we can ask for more positions, we can do more things, but at the end of the day, next year we are going to have to use the fund balance again. I just I want to be realistic about we can't say both things out of our mouth at the same time. If we want to reduce the burden, the 3.6 does that. Is it does it get to the number that you suggested, Susette? No. But it does. It's more palatable than what we had before at the 3455. So, I'm just I want to level set because I know we went into this saying there going to be

people who are not happy people who are not happy on either end. And if I while I have the bully pull to say one last thing. I think we have to be careful that if in a civil organization your comments are about principles and ideas and our beliefs about numbers, they aren't about people. And I want to believe that Bloomfield is better than making commentary about the people

from calling them people. I've been called morons and idiots and you can't do all that. Again, we can be better than that. You can disagree with my proposal about the retirements or somebody else's this. That is fruitful and part of your first amendment and everything else. But when it comes to drawing attention to personal attacks about whether you rent so therefore you're somehow less than me because I own a house. That is when we become a group of people that I don't believe we are as a town and as a community. And the fact that we accept it and we encourage it and sometimes we applaud it. I think we can do better. And

I know that I've been accused of polyianish and this is what I'm but I'm telling you who I am. And who I am is that you do not have to tear somebody down to make your point valid. And if you look in the mirror and that makes you feel good that that's what you've done. It is not a modeling of who I think you really are or who we want to be. So, I just encourage us, please disagree with my beliefs, disagree with my votes, challenge me to be the best counselor that I can be, but please let's not denigrate each other. I have faith. Thank you for that. Thank you. Are there is there

any other a motion? Yeah. that can be placed to the floor. Uh, council man, before uh before we uh because it seems like the conversation of course it's um around making a motion for the just one point of order please, Mr. Curtain be quiet.

Um so because I I think this the conversation is um moving toward a motion on utilization of the fund balance. I would uh before we decide on the fund balance, I think it's best that we try to hammer out more of these numbers to have a revisit the conversation on the board of education. Then we can have a uh a more thoughtful discussion on how much we want to use from the fund balance and whether uh whether 3 million is adequate, 3.6 is adequate, 2 million, whatever that number is. I would like us to have a conversation on the board of education again. Um see if there's appetite to increase um what their what uh their budget is um and then decide on how much fund balance the body would like to allocate. Can we do that?

Deputy mayor light through you Mr. Mayor to council man. And so with significant cuts already identified, are you saying that you want to increase the use of fund balance to further fund the education? No. What I'm saying is that I would like us to flush out all the numbers before we consider how much we want to utilize from the fund balance. May you please bring those numbers back up, Director Hill, through you, Mr. Mayor. we and and revisit specifically revisit the conversation around the board of education.

We have um conversation that has ensued about individual additions and subtractions. So if you want to place a motion on the floor then I think that's how we do it. 301. If you want to make a motion number 11, increase board of education, whatever. I do want I I am trying to work out a number. Um I'm trying to work out a number. I do not have my previous budget book here. So I'm I'm actually failing on having the uh the figure that the board of education was looking for

2.6 million. Then we got down to 1.5 almost 1.6 million. Okay. Um, I would like to uh motion to add uh 500,000 to the board of education's budget in addition to the 1.5 that's there. Is there a second? Can someone second so we can at least have a conversation on it? Thank you.

Going to do a roll call. This is just to open up dialogue to open up discussion. Okay. So, we have we have a second on it. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, [snorts] I think we have gone around this Malberry Bush a million times. I think there's folks that on the DIS may want to add further dialogue, whether it's uh new or repeated information. So, um, I know where we are. I know where I wish we could be and I I can't add anything else unless Council Mahan wants to open up the unassigned fund balance for the board because there's nothing else left at this point. Thank you, sir.

Do beef and brown. Thank you. And so that's that's my challenge, right? Because I already have a problem with the fund balance and that's that's my quantry and I don't know. I have thoughts. I really have some thoughts um because of where I think our priority should be. But um [clears throat] I I I I don't see the appetite for the thoughts that I have to be able to give the school some more money and I can't really agree with spending more fund balance.

Thank you. Well, I know last year what? Council Cooper's hands been up for a while. This is true. Be fair. Councelor Cooper, then councel Merritt.

Oh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I really appreciate it. [clears throat] Um, I am first of all, I I'd be against it. I think that we have all uh both the board of ed and certainly the town operations side have poured in uh more to this budget um than originally thought that that folks could. Um and everyone seems to have cooperated very well in getting to a place where uh the point that I want to make um and it's going to take me a minute. uh you know I came on this this council we had a a budget of 1.99% increase next year we had a budget of of of 3.9% increase we are now at a 3.07% 07% increase. I am probably going to find it very difficult for us to move any further lower than we are. uh in those other years did of course did not have uh revaluation and in this year we have a revaluation right and have so we've done remarkably well thanks to all of the talented folks um who poured into this budget and my next uh request is I would like to see a vote on this budget um I think it is is natural I think we have come to a conclusion um with what we are able to do. Uh and and certainly I I applaud, you know, councelor Mahan for wanting to revisit that. Uh but again, I think we have come to the place where everything everything corner has been looked at and so I would

hope that folks are ready to take a vote on this budget. Thank you.

Thank you, Councelor Cooper. Councel Merritt. Well, I agree with that that we it's time to vote. Uh I think we're show voting now and fall all over ourselves trying to be in favor of of the board budget which I think a lot of us are. I I'm the only one here that uh I think about five or six years ago I drove in the middle of a council term. Uh, I got I I got the votes finally after fighting with the majority party to give the boys another million dollars right in the middle of the year because they were class sizes were getting too big and we wanted to hire some more teachers and we finally won. I won't tell you who the who were the majority there but the two of those people were in this room um mayor and deputy mayor at the time. Um, so I, you know, we all would like to do more for the board and I if if I I I think it's a little, it's late in the day for us to take this up if we don't I I went over the the finance director where we should be with our reserves. And I don't think it I would take more out, but I think it would take us below the 15% mark. And I don't think you really want to do that. So, um, you know, I don't think anything bad things would happen, but I don't think that's the intention of this group. So, I I I, you know, let's let's let it lie where it is. The board has gotten two million a year, the last couple years addition roughly, and we're giving him that this year. So, I mean, it's not and this is a bad year. So if we're giving him that much in a bad year, that's that's pretty good. So I,

you know, let's leave it where it is and make the best of it. And I we found out we have they they have generously um given us the u gems building, which is on the books worth $2 million. And I think we should do everything we can to solve it as quickly as we can. Then maybe get that cash if we got get got some of that cash. I don't think it'll be 2 million because probably the value of a building like that today is not worth what it was a few years ago as an office building. Somebody will have to convert to apartments. And uh so I I I just we can't count on all that 2 million, but we should get get that in the works because we're going to need it in the next few years. I I don't think we should be using it probably in this year's budget. But [clears throat] but think good things are coming. We won't we won't have a a $800,000 plus increase in our debt service because we cut off the peak and it's going to start down. So that we've had that for last year, we have it this year. That's the bonding of a library and that's a big chunk and that's a big part of our problem this year. Million dollars isn't small and u so but we won't have that next year. So good things are happening for next year. So I don't really think we should be worried about the debts or our our reserves. But on the other hand, I think we should I I you know, I think I think we we've been fair with the board and I I'd like to give them more. But I mean, let's let's let let's move the the budget we have now, which is not perfect, and if there's some disaster somebody can think of over the weekend, we can change it. But, uh, I I really think I'd like to go home. I don't think we're going to accomplish anything more tonight. Thank you,

Council Oliver. Council Oliver. Yeah, I would like to call a question. Hold on. I I had my hand raised this whole time. I had my hand raised this whole time. Councelor Mahan, I didn't and I didn't get to make a statement. I just made the motion. I didn't get to to discuss the item at all. You made a statement. We We were looking for a motion. I yeah I made a motion and we allowed you the platform like throughout the evening get to speak on the item miss uh councelor Oliver has not had the opportunity to speak to the question

right to end debate his it was his turn I had my hand raised before council Oliver sir sir I was notified of councel Oliver's interest prior to Then you have I've called you each time you've had your council. May I make my may I make my statement before you call the question?

So call the question is a motion in Robert's rules of order used to immediately end debate and vote on a pending motion. It requires a second. It is not debatable and requires a twothirds vote to pass. A member must be recognized by the chair to make this motion and cannot interrupt a speaker. Councelor Oliver just call the question. You are really something I got to tell you. So we're calling the vote on the question. Calling calling crushing. Excuse me. Yes. It requires a twothird vote. Yes.

Correct. individually. Uh calling um councelor Cooper I. Councelor Debean Brown. Councelor Shamar. No. Muhammad whatever. No. Uh councelor Oliver. Yes. Councelor Merritt. Yes. Councelor Goodwin. Council uh Deputy Mayor Lloyd. Yes. Mayor Harrington. Yes, the motion passes. One, two, three, four.

So now passes the vote on his motion. Take the vote on his motion, please. Can you repeat the motion? You can just take the vote. Okay. Are you asking me to repeat the motion that I made? We'll take the vote. You just asked me to repeat the motion. Fine. Go. Would I? Okay. Thank you.

By the way, the you know there are many ways to find the savings in order to increase the board of education budget by 500,000 including decreasing the communications budget further um to the 100 to go. Uh we need to go if we also Yeah, that's why you should have allowed me to speak. We wouldn't be here. I'm going to speak now and I it doesn't phase me at all honestly and you know this Tony if we Mr. Mayor, I I vote that we did the full The motion is to add 500,000. The full GW board of ed budget would have been very helpful. Is there a second?

The full GWI would have been very helpful. That would have allowed us to that would allow more money for the board of education. Council Cooper. No. To add 500. Councelor Debe and Brown. Councelor Mahan. Yes. Council Oliver. No. Councelor Merritt. No. Council Goodwin. No. Mayor Lloyd. No. Mayor Harrington. No.

That's one. You guys wouldn't even hear a plan on how we can get the funds for this without touching our fund balance further. Asking to put There we go. Mr. Mayor. Yes. Um these are the council priorities. Can you return back to Thank you. Um Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we vote upon the scenario as our adopted budget at 3.07. 07% budget change with a mill rate of 34.40 4 Z is second.

All in each individual counselor. Uh are we allowed to discussion? Is there discussion? Do I get to speak now? Council Mahan. Oh, thank you so much. Um so um you know it's it's unfortunate we we had an opportunity and I I wish I would just allowed the time just a great

and want to apologize first for my outburst but it's very frustrating to be constantly cut off and that like this only happens to me. It's it happens all the time. Um, we if if we just listened, I could have laid out a plan for us to find some of those funds for the board of education. Now, it required a few further cuts that we were uncomfortable with, but I think would be necessary to ensure that our schools were fully funded. Uh, or not fully funded, but at least funded a bit more. Um, going into this, we knew that we weren't going to be able to hit the full number that the board of education wanted. that was very obvious. But even if we were to able to get them another $500,000, I think that would be very impactful um in our schools to our students. One of the things that kept coming up during this budget deliberation was uh we are this budget is going to reflect the priorities of the council. Um, and one of the things that our residents kept saying was that, hey, if we are going to pay more in taxes, we're comfortable with spending money on services. We're comfortable with spending money on our schools. Now, I understand there are a lot of us that under the t under this the tax burden that we've had with the revaluation, with the uh increase in the mill rate, it is very difficult. Uh, councelor Bethan Brown spoke about it in length. Trust me, we are all feeling a squeeze. Everything is more expensive. Uh but we're dis we're discounting the experience of our of our young people and even with sides from town staff while I'm speaking we're discounting the experience of our young people

uh for [clears throat and cough] anyway I mean it seems like a foregone conclusion but I I just wish things were a little bit different on that and I I can't support this budget as it stands. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Any other discussion? Right, Mr. Mayor. First, we have uh councelor. Mr. Mayor, then we'll call. I'd like to call the question. What? We're discussing. He did have his name. I know. I have my hands up, too. What's his question is? Yeah, it was. Uh, I am able to do that, though, right? Yes.

You didn't get a second, though. So, we're going to make Roll call vote. On calling the question. On calling the question. Roll call vote. Councelor Cooper. Yes. Uh, Councelor Dean Brown, no. Councelor Mahan, yes. Councelor Oliver, yes. Wait, we're voting on accepting the question. Yes. Councelor Merritt, yes. Councelor Goodwin, no. Uh, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, yes.

And Mayor Harrington, yes. Sorry. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Okay. Motion passes. Two, four, five. Sorry. Correct. Yes. Thank you. I think there was a miser. No, he's about to run the roll call vote. There's a roll call vote on the calling the question. Call vote. What are we voting on now? The question. You did a roll call vote and call the question. Correct. Yeah.

So, we're voting on my motion to um adopt a budget at the 3.07 with the mill rate of 34.40. Councelor Cooper. Hey, I'm sorry. Councelor Cooper. Hi. Can you not hear me? Uh, not initially. Sorry. Okay. Uh, councelor Death and Brown. So, I mean, we went through this thing and we just moved so quickly. I had asked if we can have a hiring freeze as a part of this budget. I'll accept a friendly amendment.

Second. Can we do that in the middle of voting procedures? It's a friendly amendment. I'll I'll take a friendly amendment. Okay, we've already started vote to adopt this budget with a 3.07 with a 34.4. That's what happens when we brush when we just, you know, kind of with the addendum that there is a hiring freeze for FY2027. Second. Can't do that. Can't do it. Can't do it. Can I Can I offer? We can. Can I talk? Mr. Mayor has to recognize you.

Okay. When we're talking about a hiring freeze, Mayor Debeam, I I I hope there was consideration given to I'm sorry, Councelor Death Brown. My apologies, Mr. Mayor. I hope there's attention given to what that actually means. we are retiring people and in retiring people we're talking about in this budget giving enough time for the transition of certain positions. So I think to say that we're not able to hire after we retired uh significant positions in the town is it's not going to let us get to where we need to go to excuse me sir

during this budget season. So I can take separate direction from this council at any given time. It does not have to be a fix to this budget and and I'll comply with whatever direction you give me. But I think to tie it to this budget is it's going to uh make means mean that we're not able to provide services with some of the significant positions that need to be filled. There's only six of them that I'm eliminating. There's others that are going to need to be filled. So I just wanted to make sure that that was understood. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Doesn't matter. Mr. Mayor, I mean, doesn't matter. We can always give the permission to be somebody be hired. Correct. Case by case.

Yes. And we've done this before. It's not a problem. There you go. Got it. I'm just saying we we have done hiring phrases before. They've been very effective. And it means that the council has to be asked before somebody's being hired. And we always are willing to accommodate the need. When you have to hire somebody, you got to hire somebody. But u so it's just that we don't want those positions to be automatically filled without some consideration. Correct. That's it does work. You have recognized Derel.

Recogniz Goodwin. Um can I add an amendment to your statement? Can we add that language higher? I'm sorry. I I can't can't hear you. I'm sorry. I was asking for the person who made the friendly amendment. Can we add that language to that? I will add it. Yeah. That Joe is

one more time. Could you put the screen up cuz those numbers escape me. I'm still on a no coffee thing. So I will make a motion that we adopt the budget at 3 07 with a mill rate of 34.40 with the caveat that there is a hiring freeze except to the extent of sheer necessity. Hires will only be made with the approval of councel. Second. Oh, is there a second? Second.

Have a roll call. We

I had my hand raised already. Can't we to the town manager's point? Um can't we treat that item instead of tying it to the to the budget? Can't we treat that as a separate um item? perhaps add it for discussion in our next agenda. um for uh can can we add it for discussion, possible action, our next agenda instead of tying it to the budget because we have we have language of um if necessary which is subjective and um and uh I forgot the other verbiage I was used but we have done hiring freezes outside of budgets previously and I think that's probably the most prudent way to move forward. we can approve this budget which is on these numbers and then do a separate motion for action on policy.

So here's is is that doesn't matter. I want clarification because if you don't mind it was my motion and it was seconded [clears throat] by councelor Cooper. So are you asking me to amend the friendly amendment that I've already I'd like you to throw the friendly amendment out. I can withdraw it. I can I can withdraw it. I can withdraw it. We just need to get through this. yet my motion still stands. I'm fine with that addendum. I'm absolutely fine. To your point, it can be done as a separate issue, but I've also been here where it has been

um put in through the budget process and later in the year, there were some bare necessity hires that occurred and they came back to council for authorization. So, I think that's a six on one, half a dozen on the other. I thank you for your friendly amendment and I do accept that um friendly amendment and I have put forth my motion already, Mr. Mayor. And it was seconded. So we will call each counselor. Councelor Cooper. Um I think for the third time. Yes. Okay. Councelor Death and Brown. I can't vote on these numbers. No. Council Mahan. No. Council Oliver. Yes. Councelor Merritt. Councelor Goodwin.

Yes. Deputy Mayor Lloyd. Yes. And Mayor Harrington. Yes. The motion passes. Two. Motion to adjurnn. Second. Yeah. or if you want.