Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'm sorry. January 28, 2026 uh meeting of the Union Township Zoning Commission is now called to order. Please rise for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. May be seated.

Mr. McCormack, could you please call roll? Yes. Uh, Mr. Beckman here. Mr. Campbell here. Mr. Tooff here. Mr. Honol here. Mr. Lewis here. We have quorum. Thank you. We have a motion to approve the minutes uh from the previous meeting, November 19th, 2025. So moved. I'll second that. Mr. McCormack, please call roll. Mr. Beckman, here. Yes. Mr. Campbell, yes. Mr. Tooff, yes. Mr. Honorall, yes. Mr. Lewis, yes. Motion passes.

I'll jump out of order a little bit. We'll do the election of officers now. I would nominate uh Daniel Campbell for a chair for the 2026 year. We have a second. Second. You accept that, Mr. Campbell? Well, we'll vote and we'll see, I suppose. Mr. McCormack, please call roll. Mr. Beckman, yes. Mr. Campbell, yes. Mr. Toa, yes. Mr. Honor, yes. Mr. Lewis, yes. Motion passes. So, you would have passed even without you. Exactly. I nominate Mr. Bradley Tooff for vice chair. We have second.

Seconded. All right. Call roll. Mr. Mr. Beckman, yes. Mr. Campbell, yes. Mr. Tooff, yes. Mr. Honor, yes. Mr. Lewis, yes. Motion passes. I am now passing the gamble and the meeting control over to Mr. Campbell. Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Um, so, um, before we call cases tonight, Mr. Lewis, you have a statement to read.

I do. I'm going to, uh, read a statement that outlines the procedures tonight. Uh, please pay attention. We will follow we follow these very strictly and uh request a lot of uh respect from all parties uh in in conversations. Prior to the hearing of this case this evening, I want to provide a brief overview about the process. When the case is called, we will hear from the applicant or their representative first. The commission reserves the right to question the applicant at any time. After the applicant's presentation, we will open the floor to anyone else who wishes to speak in support of the proposal. Then we will open the floor to those wishing to speak against the proposal. Those wishing to speak must fill out and provide us with the speaker registration form. All speakers must speak at the podium [clears throat] and into the microphone for recording purposes. Each speaker must identify themselves for the record. The commission reserves the right to ask questions of persons speaking against the proposal. The expectation is for speakers and observers to maintain the professional decorum of this meeting at all times. We understand that individuals are often passionate regarding their positions and preferences. However, this meeting cannot properly function if it becomes unruly. We ask that all speakers be conscious of the time and that speakers be conscious of avoiding making repetitive statements. Once these are in oppos once those in opposition to the proposal have spoken, the case will be closed for public comment. Discussion at that time is limited to the commission, although the commission may ask questions of zoning staff, the applicant, or those in opposition. After discussion, I will call for a motion from the commission. This motion requires a second after which the motion itself is open to discussion. The vote will be called and action taken on the motion. When a motion receives a majority vote, the commission issues its recommendation to the board of trustees in accordance with the wording of the motion. Our options are to recommend approval for the requested change, approval of the requested change with modifications, or denial of the requested change. The purpose of the motion is to make a recommendation to the board of trustees regarding the case. The authority to grant an applicant zoning [clears throat] request

or to deny an applicant zoning request rests with the board of trustees. These cases will be heard in the next meeting of the trustees which is scheduled for uh February. Let make sure I get the right date. 10th February 10th. So this uh however we move on this case tonight will be heard by the trustees on February 10th. Thank you for your attention.

Thank you Mr. Lewis. Uh first item of business per our agenda is old business which is uh case number 2-25-t which is a proposed text amendment to add article 14 uh which is regarding lighting. Uh now as most of the members of the public I suspect are not here to hear uh the proposed text amendment regarding lighting in the township. Uh, I would uh suggest that possibly we move to new business, which is would be our zoning map amendment case. Do I uh hear a motion to that effect? I do. I I'll make that motion. Second.

I've regularly made and second a motion, Mr. to uh change uh the order of business to put our old business after the new business. Mr. McCorman. Uh roll call. Mr. Beckman. Yes. Mr. Lewis. Yes. Mr. Tooff? Yes. Mr. Honoral? Yes. Mr. Campbell? Yes. Motion passes.

In that the motion has passed, we turn to new business, which is case number 1-26-Z, which is a proposed zone map amendment for three parcels totaling 3.8206 [clears throat] acres uh to be reszoned from single family detach structure residential R1 to uh R4 uh single family variable. Uh do we have a uh case report?

Yes. Um the written report has been distributed. There were extra copies out front and then we'll go over the PowerPoint presentation that coincides with that written report. Uh so this is case 126Z. Applicant is Brookstone Homes. Um I believe right now one one thing I want to make clear is the owner of the property is the board of trustees of Union Township, but the board of trustees of Union Township have not reviewed this proposal. Um, so oftentimes for transactions, um, we have for real estate transactions, we have applicants that want to put forth a development proposal and they put an offer on the property that's contingent on the zoning occurring. And that's what's happening in this scenario. Um, if the trustees would review the application and find it favorable [clears throat] like they would any case, the the applicant can move forward. If ultimately they would find that the case is not um you know favorable or to their liking, they would not allow the zone map amendment. And of course the zoning commission's role in this process is simply to make a recommendation regarding to approve or not to approve um the application as presented. Uh the site location, we have three parcels, but the only addressed piece was 952 Club Pike, uh which there's no longer a house on that particular um parcel. The par three parcels are listed here um on the first slide. It's totaling um 3.8206 8206 acres. And as you mentioned earlier, it's a single family attached residential R1 and we're looking at building of 28 buildable lots that are prepared villas or what has otherwise in the past been known as duplexes. Uh this is a vicinity map of the site. Uh you can see uh to the west Veterans Park. Uh you can see

the old high school site under development here. This is um the site I'm circling now is what's known as Union Commons. To the north of that is the Slate project which was um which is shown here as Westmon Apartments. And then we have the vision project underway that's not quite shown up here in the northeast. And we have provision um living u over here [clears throat] of the site a little ways. We have Weatherbe to the south and the uh southwest. And then um of course Weebold and Larma uh to the immediate um west and and I think Shant Clear is right down the road as well. So there's quite a number different types of development in the area. Of course you can see the new roundabouts in here as well. Two of them and the vicinity map here. Um wanted to point out that Club Pike is a countymaintained road. It is considered a minor arterial two-lane roadway with no turning lanes in the area of the proposed project and the traffic volume as of 2022 was around 6,500 average trips and that's in both directions. Uh this is the existing zoning map. You can see the parcels are zoned R1 and immediately to the east and west you see it's zoned R1. to the north. It's zone planned development and that's primarily the old high school site where we have anywhere in the neighborhood of 12 to,400 units that will to be built total on that site. Child focus is the site is the one site to the immediate north and then everything else is is what what's under development as far as the um other projects that I mentioned here a few moments ago. Um the R4 area that you see here is um different parts of Weatherbe and um there is some estate residential that exists here on some bigger pieces just away from the site. So there's

definitely a mix of of different types of zoning here. Uh this is the site zoomed in as best I could. Um try to get everything in there. The little bar that you see at the bottom is a 200 foot area. I was trying to fit as much of it as I could. That was the best I could do. Um, I'm gonna pause there. In relationship to the 2030 comprehensive land use plan, um, none of the property is in a focus area. Um, and so there is no there are no statements or or specific recommendations regarding the land use policies or guidelines for this area um, like there are for the commercial institutional industrial corridors. I I do think at some point in time when we update the plan, there are areas that are very close to this, if not including this, that will probably be captured when we update the plan, but we just haven't gotten to that yet. Um, so there aren't any inclusive the the plan there there's no specific lane use pattern or strategies for this area, but the plan does indicate that, you know, there needs to be inclusive housing strategies that considers mixed housing types and designs. um promote different densities um including existing single family uh large lot development patterns that are already in a township and um at an a density between two and a half to four units an acre. And then also acknowledging in other areas that you know there are areas that are more appropriate for much higher densities and in some cases in some of those focus areas it gets up into the high double digit per acre um densities. This particular project um currently as it stands gross acreage included is at 7.78 units per acre and the project is tenatively called Cottage Grove. This is the topography overlaid onto the site that this includes two foot

contours. So it's a pretty flat site and I'll come back to [snorts] that uh during the staff report because there's some um residual effect from the flatness of the site especially with drainage. [clears throat]

Um, with regards to the rest of page two and three of the staff report, um, we have in here the text from the Union Township zoning resolution that is, um, that one would need to pay regard to when looking at a an R4 reszone. Um, so we've included all the sections in here from 650, I think 659 uh to describe the process to reszone [clears throat] to R4. And that carries over onto the end uh beginning of page five. Page five, the background is going to mention that the property has been zoned R1 since zoning was established in the township township. Uh, a lot of the zoning around it has changed pretty significantly. Um, some of that you saw on the earlier slide. Property in the past appears to have had one house on it and some potential agricultural uses. Um, if you go back further in time, including crop and woodland areas. This is the proposed um overlay plan with the oblique. It's not maybe 100% perfect, but it gives you an idea of what it would look like without the personal properties. You can see the in the background here the new uh units for the Union Commons building. You can see child focus here. Um this is the layout on the plans that you received. Um the larger units would be on the east side and the smaller would be on the west side. Uh so the applicant's proposal is cons considered a mixed density for sale deed out uh residential plan unit development. Um if not for the fact that

it would is strictly residential. You know they might be looking at a PD designation but it's strictly residential. So they're seeking the R4 designation. The proposed project if it would move forward would bring significant investment to the site um which is a challenging property based on the geometry and lack of topography and poor drainage. Um the these parcels we'll go back to so you can see it a little bit. So in the context of things these parcels as I understand it because I was not with I was not with the township when these parcels were purchased. I think were purchased with the idea of potentially serving the old high school site, which is all this right here. And um as the high school site moved forward um at some point in time, the project became fragmented and got kind of divided into four pieces of the pie like I mentioned earlier where you've got Elmington building Union Commons, you've got uh CRG building the Slate, you've got Vision building VC Lane, and you've got Provision building over here in the southeast. And then you had um child focus um by one of the old school buildings and and is still here in this location. And when that happened, it kind of made these three parcels orphans um for lack of better way of putting it. And so um the township has owned those for a number of years now. I don't remember what year they were purchased. I forget. Um but that they've been in the township's possession for several years. Um in terms of the proposed plan development here, um the development as it consists right now would be bisected by the proposed street which would be tenatively named Paisley Court. Uh I mentioned the larger lots lots being on the eastern portion, smaller on the western portion. Uh we're looking at 28

proposed buildable lots on the 3.82 82 acre site with two types and sizes of lots. 18 lots that are approximately 39 feet by 74 feet and I've got the range of the acreage there and then 10 that are approximately 33 feet by 74 feet with the approximate acreages there as they're [clears throat] shown. Um, I will note that those are the size of the lots and and you know, one of the most important things to note is there's a a a lot of there's a green belt around the entire development that's about 15 ft in width. In some areas, it's a little more. The only area it's a little less is out by Cluff here in this one little corner. Um but but [snorts] that that green space that you see uniformly around these uh yellow and orange lots is a 15t buffer. Um and that buffer for the open space provides 23.3% of the is is 23.3% of the project area. And then in the area here to the norththeast is the proposed detention basin which isn't I don't think fully designed. I think that's just the area where they intend to put it. uh in terms of the open space areas and talking to the applicant, the intent is to leave as much of the existing mature vegetation as possible and to provide supplemental plantings were needed and possible next to existing single family development. Obviously, some of that develop some of that area is going to have to have vegetation removed and we would have to have a landscaping plan put into place particularly if there's anything next to res residential single family residential. Um although some of the minimum lot sizes are smaller than the adjacent subdivision lots huge variety of lot

sizes in that area. Um some are like I said earlier you know four acres or or more and some are even smaller than what's being proposed here in Weatherbe and the high school site. So within six or 700 feet of the site, you you know you do have things like whether it be Union Commons, Slate, Provision Living, and so forth that have comparable densities or even higher densities, but you also have the complete opposite. So it's it's it's a really a mixed bag in that particular area in terms of the density. If you go by what's east and west, the densities are lower for sure. If you go to what's north and south, the densities tend to be higher. Um but particularly if you go 600 700 feet away in terms of the proposed uh building types um there were two examples that were provided of the proposed building types and the only reason we don't have more and I did ask for more are because I think the applicant was working on um you know maybe trying to put together some other examples um and I don't know if they've done that or not but you know they did provide these two examples of what they're looking at for the paired villas, uh, single family attached housing. Um, my understanding these are predominantly two-story structures, total square footages, um, averaging between 17 and 2500 square ft. Um, would would maybe want to clarify some of that with the applicant. And then um of course that would based on what we had discussed and pre-application discussions and and and putting the report together. Um these would result in substantial investment to the area of the township. Um but they can give you the applicant perhaps can give you the price points that they're looking at if you're interested. The proposed minimum setbacks for all the lots are 23 feet for the front yard setback, five for both the rear and side

setbacks, except where there's a shared wall for the paired patio. Those are obviously zero. Um, however, for the rear setback, even though the rear setback is shown as five feet, that 15t open space that I was showing you earlier means that really the buffer is the setback's really 20 feet. It's just that the lot line stops 15 feet before the next lot line. So, there's that 15 foot buffer. Um, Paisley Court would be a Denin Street with an offset culde-sac and an emergency access with a gate and Knox box at the end to the child focus property. and um if this street and emergency access would be established. Um we wanted to note that the township would work collaboratively with child focus and um the applicant to route traffic to Glenn SD Wamsville Road. Go back here a little ways. And what we would try [clears throat] to do is um route traffic to Glennie Withemsville Road v via Illiam this development [clears throat] to this roundabout right here and then secure Judy Lane which is right here from further access and attempt to make it an emergency access as well. Uh, so you'd have an in and if that would happen, you would have an emergency access at Judy and you would have an emergency access here and the child focus and school traffic would all go this way to Glenn SD Winsville instead of going out Judy um and towards Kluff. Again, that takes uh all the parties to make that happen. Um, but that would be the intent if the project were to move forward. The township would be working, the staff would be working to try to achieve that. Uh the [clears throat] new street would also have a six foot sidewalk on the interior and would have

a 4ft sidewalk along Kluff Pike. Um the township has a pretty aggressive sidewalk plan eventually, even in places like Pike, Kluff Pike, we would like to have a sidewalk at least on one side of the road. And so we're working on trying to do that. Um, again, at least on one side of the road, pretty much everywhere around East Gate, Mount Carmel, and anywhere that's going to link potentially to the schools. In terms of some other pictures, I'll show you some other pictures and maybe show some driveby pictures on the Google Drive by because it's hard to take pictures of this site right now. Um, these were taken before the snow. This is looking north from Kluff Pike. This is looking east from Judy Lane. The site would be here on your [clears throat] right. This is looking from Child Focus looking south. And this is looking west into the proposed site towards Weebold Lane. Um I'll come back to some pictures here in a moment. Um, in accordance with sections 440 and 650 to 659 of the zoning resolutions from article 4 and article 6, zoning commission's role, as stated earlier in this process is to recommend uh make a motion to recommend approval approval with modifications or recommend denial the applicant's request to reszone the subject property as submitted. Um, ultimately the recommendation will then go to the trustees. the trustees will take final action because it would change the zoning map which requires legislative action and that would be the final action in terms of the recommended modifications. The applicant in short would need to address the concerns of other departments and agencies and we listed those uh on page six of the staff report. applicant would need to provide statements on the final plans to affirm that no structures would be allowed or permitted within the 15 foot minimum open space areas along the site boundary and also identify existing mature

vegetation that's not intended to be disturbed. Ultimately landscaping plan we would also have them augment [clears throat] where there might need to be some additional plantings. Sometimes that doesn't happen until the project moves forward and they get near the end and then we tell them we have gaps here. We need some some additional vegetation. Paisley Court would need to be recognized as a dead-end street with an emergency access um in the area of the offset culde-sac which would include a gate with a Knox box at the end that only the fire department would have a key to. So the I know there has been expressed some concern about the fact that the gate might be open. That's not going to happen because the only people that are going to have a lock is going to be the township and if somebody for some reason decides to try to open the gate, the township will put a new lock on it. I mean, this is what the township does in other locations and even when I worked in other places, that's what was done in those other places. The it's only for emergency access. Um, and if and if that were to change, they would have to have a public hearing to acknowledge that it's being open as more than an emergency access. Um I don't think there's any as we see it right now. No one would want to divert people through child focuses lot to get to Glenn Wthamsville which is the only reason you would open it up. I guess we would require a lighting phototric plan to be provided u with details ultimately [clears throat] and also an updated signage plan although there is a signage plan submitted. And then um we had some other items that per article 11, section 1131 that we would need for a site plan that would need to be submitted that were not in hand necessarily by January 20th, but some of those things we typically don't see until later on in the project anyways. Um so that is the concludes the staff report. [clears throat] I did want to mention we did receive one written comment that I forwarded to you a week or so, maybe two weeks ago from

Mr. Mark Pence. Um it is a double-sided full two-page letter. Um we also had a um article from the inquir that we put in the in the uh as an attachment to what we submitted to the board. And then I did want to provide you a idea of what it looks like out there. So these are the Google driveby pictures. Make this a little bit bigger. because this is sometimes a little better than trying to take pictures from a car on Kluff Road or Weeble. So, the site is going to be here on your left and these were taken August of 24. So, that's what the site looks like. Um, I'll come back to Weebolt here in a minute. This is the next house down kind of get an idea of what's what's there in terms of what's across from it. We'll look at that as well. Sometimes these drivebys are great because they're up a little higher and sometimes they're not. So that's what's across. This is what's on the corner of Weebold. And so basically what you're looking at is the property that's behind these houses here. I'll try to skip ahead some. You get the idea of what you're looking at on Weeble.

That's the Judy access there and to child focus. And then in the background you can see the [clears throat] apartments being built. And then this here is the back part of the site. I don't know that we're going to be able to see anything else because I don't think you can go back into that, but did want to kind of point that out because honestly, we couldn't even get pictures better than the ones on the Google bot driveby. Um, with that, are there any questions I can try to address? You mentioned a detention pond. Where where were they thinking about putting that? That was um the open spa. I know not in relation to the open space. childare northeast.

Northeast. Yep. It's um let me see here. Current slide. It's this right here. Oh, so the open the area they have marked up for open space now. Yeah. Okay. All that green space is open space, but I think they labeled it there because that was an easy place to label it. But that's where the planned basin is. And it's Oh, the common open space is is detention basin. That's what I That's where I got confused. So all the green is open space, but the area they actually put the label on is right here where the detention basin is. Okay. [clears throat]

Um and that is a detention basin. So it's only supposed to be wet when we have a rain event. So it's not supposed to hold water all the time. One of the other things if they move forward with this project is we would make them put some kind of a barrier there between the road and the detention basin. Post and cable would be one option. I mean, we wouldn't really probably push guardrail, even though that would be an option, right? Or plants that would be strong enough, sufficient enough or burm and plants sufficient enough to keep people from driving into it. Because even though I think it's it's only intended on on paper to maybe be a couple feet deep, when it's wet, if a car goes off on the road, people can drown in it. And I actually had a friend that drowned in a couple feet of water in a similar situation. But be clear that the required common open space shared by all the tenants is actually retention basin that they can't make use of.

Um no this is part of the open space but all of this green space that wraps around the site that 15t I don't really see them that's going to be full of vegetation right? Yes. All right. And then down here at the very end and at the very beginning there's going to be open space six almost [clears throat] three quarters of an acre. Mark on your comment the comment two dealing with the space uh if this were to be approved at 5T the green space behind the buildings. If somebody if it was approved and somebody put something in that 5 foot such as a shed or something, who enforces that?

We would first of all, if they came in for a permit, we would tell them no. And secondly, if they didn't come in with a permit um application, we would site them for not put getting a permit and then on top of that tell them they couldn't put it there even if they did. So it's not it's not like a neighborhood covenant. Um, we would s, you know, suggest that they make it clear on the subdivision plan. Yeah, there is a homeowners association. I saw it'll be enforceable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But after a few years, homeowners association sometimes go by the wayside. So, I just wonder. So, the other thing is the property lines [clears throat] end before that 15oot area even begins. So if they were putting it in that

No, I was talking about that five foot green space area that would be actually belong to the backyard. Yes. Yeah. 15 15 would be the green and then five would be right. Talking about that five a structure such as a

so the primary structure couldn't be within that five foot area but theoretically speaking like a deck or an accessory structure could be but the actual house or whatever couldn't be in that area. Okay. Any additional questions for Mr. McCormack? Okay. We'll be talking to you later, I'm sure. Thank uh is the applicant or their representative here to speak. [clears throat] Good. Good evening. Nick Chorse, Choice of Engineering, here with the applicant, Shannon with the Brookstone Homes. So, we're really here, Mark did a good job with the staff report presenting the project. We have 14 buildings essentially with two units in each. It's 28 units. They are a for sale, you know, fee simple product. That's why they're platted with the line between the units so that people can actually purchase the lots. Um, so we're here mainly to answer questions and probably come up later after other people's testimony. Um, I did want to clarify a few things. The detention versus retention that's really shown for now as a stormwater management area. That hasn't really been determined. Um, if the township feels strongly one way or the other, that can be incorporated into the final design if it moves forward. Um, and then the accessory structures like sheds like there would be covenants on the the plat to prevent those basically on this site. So that wouldn't be allowed period. Um, and for the for the street, we're proposing a 40ft rideway. I do want to clarify like visually you look at it on these you know top down plans what we

show in the gray box is the 40 foot of rideway like that is not 40t of asphalt pavement it's just the the platted rideway so the road is 24t wide two lanes basically so I think sometimes there's a misperception that like the pavement is going to be touching the property line on one side that is not what it will look like Um, other than that, we're here to happy to answer any questions. If it's, you know, product related, how much will these costs? I'll defer to Shannon. If it's site related, engineering related, then then I'll probably answer. So, we can ask now or we'll just sit down and come up later.

Quick question, please. I take it these are on a slab. That would be they'll be basement. Okay. Um, are they intended to be patio type homes or can you clarify? Most everything on the front uh one floor for seniors, etc., etc. Yep. Anyone else have any questions at this [snorts] time? [clears throat] I've got some questions,

Mr. Lewis. The uh our 2030 plan calls for in nonfocus area development, residential development, large lot residential. And you look at the surrounding properties, they're all R1 large lot. And the first and foremost requirement of an R4 is that the plan be in harmony with the surrounding area, the surrounding residential area. How did how did you derive the process or come up with 28 units when you're you know with a density of 9 or 7.8 I think. How did you come up with a density three times higher than the surrounding area when the R4 calls for it to be in harmony? And especially with the a roadway going behind houses with 250 trips a day. You've got 28 units at let's say nine trips a day per per unit. So these houses are going to have 250 trips going behind their houses a day. Is that is that correct?

If you look at the trip generation manual on a per day basis, you know, you got FedEx driver, mail truck, you know, all adds up to about what you said. Okay. But how did you arrive at at the 28? It's such a high density with these infill sites, you know, it's it's often you can't match perfectly what's directly adjacent. Like Mark pointed at in the staff report, if you go slightly beyond this, it is comparable densities or lower densities than some of the stuff around it.

But R4 clearly the first and foremost calls for it to be in harmony with the surrounding area. And you look at what you're surrounded by except on the very northern side. There's a PD child development area up there and part of the school, but your large lot even er larger than halfacre lots uh surrounded. And then this comes in at an extremely it just doesn't look like it fits to me. I mean it it's it's a very large uh a very crunched in development and I just I'm puzzled at how we've got so many units when the surrounding area and the requirement of R4 is that it be in harmony. So uh if you don't have any other insight or explanation than what you've offered then I appreciate your time.

Sure. Thank you. So, I do have some questions regarding uh what are the proposed price points and who is the target demographic for these years? Yes, please. Yep. Hi, my name is Shannon Lockman. I'm with Brookstone Homes. Uh so, the proposed target market is 55 and older. Okay.

So, we're going after mostly empty nesters. um the type of product. Um if you're going down the street, the the right hand side are first floor masters. The lefthand side are actually twotory, three-bedroom homes. So, kind of a combination of both. Uh price point is probably going to be roughly 4 to 500,000. Um and then I I think you said one more thing I don't remember. No, those were those address both my questions. I wanted to see who the target audience demographic was for this. And and that also with with going after an empty neester type product, you're also going to have less generation of traffic also. But you there's no guarantee that that's who the market ends up.

Not by any means. No, we are not we we would not make it a certain [clears throat] story. Right. U members of the commission, Mr. Tooff, Mr. Honorlaw, Mr. Beckman, any questions? I think I think we addressed our concerns. Thank you, gentlemen. Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to uh speak for the applicant? Okay. Hearing uh Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Um caught me off guard. Um, are there uh any persons who would like to speak against or questions regarding the development

that list here if speak against? And I will caveat that by I know we've got another a number of testimony sheets up here. If you do intend to speak tonight, we'll need you to fill one out in the back of the room uh and bring it up. But uh Mr. Lewis will call you. Uh I've got quite a few already. So, uh, if you please, uh, when he calls your name, walk to the podium, address your, uh, give your name for the record and your address, please. Thank you. Okay. Laura Needles, please step forward and just I already know your name, so you don't have to reiterate that. Just uh, I live directly across the street.

And you're on Club Pike? I'm on Cliff Pike, the house with the well, and my main concern is the traffic coming out and my hopes was it could get rerouted to Glenn Estie Wmanville to the the roundabout because I could never get out of my driveway until you guys shut down Larma and Weeble. Now I can get out of my driveway and this is going to make me not get out of my driveway again. Oh, you're directly across. Yes. And I think there's way too many homes that are being proposed to be being built there in that small area. Not enough green space.

And that that's my main concern. Well, thank you very much. We appreciate your time, Mr. Loops. Pam Ellis, I declined. I'm sorry. She declined. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Thank you. Uh, Joseph Ellis. Joseph, please just let us know your address, where you're at. 4264. We lane. [clears throat] We old Lane. Thank you.

All right. My our house is the first one on on the left on the west hand the west part of those buildings is being built. [clears throat] Mr. Foreman, could you bring the uh the picture up that shows the the actual house layout the the lot layouts the orange going horizontal? Yeah. And the dark oranges are at the one all the way at the end from Kluff right there. That's the first lot right there to the right right there. That's No, that's Sean's. He He couldn't make it here tonight because he had to work. That one right there. All right.

Now, I was told that that building is going to be five feet from my fence. The side of that building 15t actually, I believe. Side is five feet, isn't it? 15t buffer and a five foot setback. Is that correct? Side. Oh, sideyard. Sideyard. That's going to be five feet. Sir, the buffer is the one in that green space that he's talking about. It's 15 ft. Oh, I saw it. I saw it. Yeah, right there. Yeah. All the way down along my fence road. Good point.

And uh [clears throat] that whole area right there from that house that they're going to build for at least the first four units is nothing but swamp land. It's been swamp land for God knows how long. I know it since I've been there since 2003. But uh I my biggest concern is drainage. I have a biggest problem right now because we're the almost one of the last houses at the end of the street and all [clears throat] that water's running down. We've had a problem up there and the problem still exists at Judy Lane. [snorts] That little area right there, that that ditch line, they have never got that water out of there. That's all still standing and it's taken away from all of our green space that we do have left here. I mean, we have a lot of it's nice, you know, the trees and all that when it grows up. It's all peace and quiet. We will not have that with this building going in. Like you were saying, I forget the the amount of traffic that would generate going in there. And I mean, Cliff Park right now is already overrun with traffic. I mean, [clears throat] that was my biggest concern and same as Mark Pence that you read his letter, I'm sure.

Yes.

And [clears throat] uh but the biggest problem is drainage. I don't I can't see that retention pond saying it's going to dry up. It ain't never going to dry up. That's all I think I don't know wishful thinking I imagine. But, uh, like I said, that's all swamp land. And if they have to build that up, that's going to make my backyard a swimming pool or a lake. Either or. But, uh, yeah, the biggest problem I got in considering is is taking away all that green space. If I wanted to live in the city, I'd have went down in the city and bought a house. That's what we're going to that's what we're generating here really. I mean, these people are going to spit in their living room, you know. So,

well, generally we can't stop someone from developing their property, but this is a unique situation where the property is actually owned by the township. So, yeah. Well, I realize, you know, money [clears throat] money talks and and the rest of the people just kind of hang on, try to anyway. We just feel like we're beinged out. But that was my biggest concern is drainage. And I'm sure it's going to be a real problem, a major problem. And I don't know if the township will take care of that drainage problem or well, Brook's going to take care of that problem. So that's I can answer that. Yeah, I was going to say

so when a new development comes in, it doesn't matter if it's residential or any other type of development, the applicants have to um get all their drainage storm water management plans approved by the county. And the storm [clears throat] water leaving the property when it's all said and done has to be equal to or less than what is there now. And if there are existing problems on the property, they have to try to address those things. if the problems are upstream, they they can't necessarily be responsible for everything that's upstream, but they can mitigate some of the things that are happening to the surrounding area. In this area, it looks like it's just flat and it's not draining well. Um, now, as far as whether or not the detention, the area that's planned to be detention is actually detention, it can be retention. It doesn't have to be detention. um they usually don't determine that until after the reszone process has taken place and they start submitting their construction and engineering plans to the county. So what I can tell you is in general no matter where the development occurs in the county, in the township and even outside the county and other places, how they how this is handled is they make sure the volume and velocity of the water um when we have rain events is not going to be worse than it will actually be better than what was there previously because they're the the old rules they didn't have they didn't have um any rules in some cases. So there some portions of the township where there's no storm basins at all. There's no curb and gutter and there's like 30 years of development with nothing to do anything with the water. Right. And that's probably part of the reason why some of the development area here

is where why you're experiencing some issues is because they didn't have storm water structures built when the neighborhood was built. um when regardless of whatever is built on that property, whether it's this plan or another plan, if it's a subdivision plan or anything that is going to require significant review, the county storm water management people are going to make them submit their storm water calculations and make sure that when the water leaves the property, it's equal to or less than what's happening now. Um, so it should any development in general should take care of a lot of the water problems. It may not take care of everything, especially what's on on Judy because that's not on this property, but in general, that's how the process works regardless of whether where the property is in the the county or township. Well, I'm pretty sure, not just myself, but other neighbors also, that the water, ever since they built up here, built the commons and all that up there, all that water, we're seeing a lot more water drainage running down our our streets and that down there, and they have a hard time trying to keep it out. When it gets down to Cleft, it gets bottlenecked. There's two drainages going to one

one drain coming from east and west. I don't I don't know. You'd have to ask the county people um some of the [clears throat] questions you're asking about, but I can tell you for the high school site, see this right here? Yep. This is the basin that's that was built for the high school site. And um when that when that area is releasing, it's supposed to be releasing at a better rate than what was there previously. Now, having said that, if they're not maintaining it right, or if there's a crack in the pipe or something, it doesn't mean you're not going to have a problem. maintenance is going to be a problem for as long as that's there, right? But who maintains that?

Um, it's been it's being turned over to the c the township because we are we have a common trail path that's that's built right here as it stands right now and it'll connect from Glen SD Withersville all the way to Bach Buckton. And so I think I think it's been deeded over to the township at this point or if it's not it's it's going to be um but it had to have been built to the specs that the county said was okay for it to be built in the first place. And then as far as maintenance becomes like a constant this is something we need to check and make sure is um draining properly. You know like you can't get them let let them get overgrown with cattails and you got to make sure the pipes stay clean and everything else. So, I don't know like where that discharges um entirely. That would be information you'd have to get to the county through the county because they're the ones that would have reviewed the system. But I do know that that's the main area for the high school site.

Well, I just consider, you know, the fact that we're getting more water and only since they built that up there. So, it's obvious that it's coming somewhere's up that way. I mean, yeah. And they've also water runs downhill and we're at the end of the hill. Yeah. You I'm also aware like when they've done the the roundabouts, they've changed some of the drainage here. And another example of that is we're look we own property over here. We found that when they put a pipe in here behind Walmart between the two roundabouts, they created kind of a wetland area unintentionally.

Yeah. So, because of all the different things that are happening up there with the new roundabouts, right, we got three of them and the high school development and so forth, like we have we they're still settling some of the storm water problems, but we have to work with the county on all that because that's where all that stuff gets taken care of. And you know, a lot of these roads like Club Pike and Glenn Withersville, those are and ISTs, those are all countymaintained roads even though they're in the township. So, the count it's it's a It's kind of [clears throat] a little frustrating because the township can't always take care of the issues directly. We can take care of them when they come in for development, but if they're tied to a development plan, the county has to do their part of it. And then if it's a county road, we have to go back to them and talk to them about whatever's going on with the county road and the drainage for the county roads.

So, we're kind of overloaded right now with with the maintenance guys out there working. I mean, there's not that many over here in Union Township that's that's maintaining these these we're now straying a little bit further than what this case is about. We've talked about water at multiple sites that is not this particular plan and I appreciate your concern and I'm well aware that there are water issues throughout the township. I think we've I think we've gone driven that horse about as far as it'll run tonight. Well, I think yeah, it's it's not just me. It goes right across club into the houses right there on the first part of club there in front of where this is being built.

So, I think it might be I mean, like I said, that's a number one concern and we appreciate your time this evening. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Yes, we have uh Charles Sims. Please state your address. Uh 948 Kluff Pike. Thank you. corner cloth and weeold. Okay.

Uh my name is Charles Sims. I've lived in the uh neighborhood for about 45 years now in that corner house. Um I do have several concerns about this project. Uh the first one um you already addressed. Um I believe the new zoning is not compatible with the zoning of the property surrounding it. You got about 13 14 properties around there zoned R1. Now you're going to put a high density R4 right in the middle of them. Yeah, that was my first concern. Um [clears throat] I don't feel that the uh proposed development is compatible with the existing neighborhood, that the development is not a planned development as was the property that was developed down at the school. that was part of the whole traffic improvement project. I understand that. So, you know, things are going to march on, [clears throat] but this is, hey, we're going to dump all these houses in here. Um, I also am concerned about the traffic on Kluff Pike. It is likely to cause even more congestion. [clears throat] A lot of times myself, I'm sure Joe, Mel, Ricky, everybody on Weebolt has to wait for all the cars from Shaylor and Kluff to clear. That might be 30 cars and then we can get out of Wee Bowl. Now, this road that they're proposing is about 200 ft from Wee Bowl. So, if there's six or eight cars coming out of there in the morning, we may never get out. Same way with the cars coming past the Veterans Park from Glenasty Withersville. You got a timed stop lightss. So I think they're time to allow people out of Larma and out of Weeble. So you know um that was another one of my concerns. [clears throat] Um

let's see. Next concern I have is um the diversion of groundwater. right now. Um, myself, Mel Sturgil, we get a hard rain, everything from Kluff Pike all the way back to my driveway can be totally underwater. So, I appreciate you, the township, you know, addressing those concerns. It hasn't been addressed for 15 years, maybe longer. So, that is as it may. I think another thing I'm worried about is when Brookstone comes in and they build these properties and they sell them for a nice profit. They're gone. They're out of it. So, what do we do then? What if we get water in our basement? My sister-in-law, they made a put a development in out in the behind the Ford plant. Her house was dry as a bone in her crawl space. when they were done with the project, she had a foot of water in it continuously because the water wasn't vertical. So, that's another like Joe's uh talking about. That's a concern of mine. Um I've done a lot of work on my basement. I know Mel's had his basement, spent thousands of dollars getting it repaired and everything. [clears throat] I don't have a problem now. What about 6 months after these homes go in and then I have a problem? Who's going to address that? Is that [clears throat] going to be stuck on me to pay for or is Brookstone going to jump in and fix my water problem? I would like some kind of answer for that.

It's not appropriate to ask them at the meeting. You're supposed to Oh, I thought they were going to answer our question. No, you asked them the questions. They didn't. I'm asking the question. That was stated at the very beginning of the meeting.

Okay. However, um I'd like to see um an environmental and drainage performed by a third party independent entity, not associate with Brookstone. Um I don't really trust the developer to do their own due diligence. So, uh the pro uh the proposed subdivision would strain the capacity of the property that it's built on. 28 units, 3.8 8 acres. There's no room for anything. That's why they're looking for the close setbacks. The I was told in the last meeting, theformational meeting, that the property setback was going to be 10 ft from my property line. Okay, that puts the home or the deck or the patio, whatever it is, less than about 30 ft from my house. 20 something feet. And it looks like it's a two-story dwelling. Okay, which is means they're going to have a direct line of view into my home, into my family room, into my backyard, into my sideyard, into my daughter's bedroom, which I'm not happy about. Uh, let's see. And I've got copies of this for all you gentlemen. [clears throat] Uh, let's see. The last thing is that uh let's see the homes selling for I was told $400 to $600,000. I'm worried that's going to in increase. The average price of homes in that area. My tax base is probably going to increase and the value of my home is going to decrease because they're 30 foot off my house, less than 30 foot. Um, I built improvements back there,

built blinds so people coming down Pike couldn't look right into my house. My sideyard, my backyard, and you can look at the map if you want. Um, are the last two places I have any privacy. So, I'm totally against this project. Uh, let's see. Uh, let's see. It looks like from the I didn't I I haven't seen any blueprints or plans. These are twostory homes on the west side. Correct. They'll have to answer that. What's that? They will have to answer that. The the orange houses are twostory. Correct. You're correct. Correct. So they're going to be looking right down on top of me

from less than 10 feet away from my property line. So, that was my point about the privacy. Um, I haven't heard any specific uh and I'll ask you guys if if they've uh submitted any specific plans for noise abatement or lighting abatement, you know, if they got lights on these condos or if you want to call them patio homes, whatever you want to call them, they're going to be shining right in my windows. So it's a require it's a requirement in the staff report. It's recommended regarding the lighting phototric plan which has not yet been submitted but they would be required to be uh downward directed shielded and dark sky compliant.

Okay. All right. Um let's see. Other than that we're losing the last bit of green space we got. We got families of deers. We got foxes come up there. We got a variety of different birds come in, bird feeders, you know. Um, like Joe said, if I wanted to live in the city, I would have stayed in Price Hill, but I moved out here to get away from it all. Um, I think this is a step too far for this neighborhood. Period. I'll answer any of your questions. Got it. Anyone have any questions at this time? What else is What? You gave a club Pike address. Yes, sir. Okay. He's directly behind the first one.

I'm on the corner. [cough and clears throat] I'm the one I think the big one on the corner. Yeah, they're the closest to me, you know. Okay. Can I uh give you these copies and you can Yeah, feel free to bring them up. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you. All right. Next on the list is Chris Holt.

Mr. Holt, please let us know your address. Yeah, I'm uh Chris Hold. I'm on 959 Kluff. We're the uh probably the only true house that's affected by this on Kluff or that one up at the top corner. I'm here to speak on uh as a proponent for this property. Um I've lived in that prop, our property for uh little over 25 years. I've known for probably at least a decade that since this township has owned his property that there was going to be some sort of project done on there. And to be honest with you, I'm actually relieved that this is the option that they are choosing because based upon some of the other projects that have been going on with the density, I would it would have just devastated us. But for here, you have to look at it as these are four or $500,000 properties. So, we don't have anything like this right now. And when you started growing this township and allowing a VA, a children's hospital, you allow other PE demographics to come in here, you need other places for them to live. Um, I wrote down just a few things because obviously I'm nervous. Um, and I'll just start with this. It is progress. Ever since you voted in and allowed Jungle Gyms to get here and have growth, we know that things are going to change. We've had I'm not the only one that's known something's going on. Everybody here could have had the opportunity to sell the property or move on. There's nobody here that's being blindsided by this. Um, this here has allowed us the opportunity that now I know what you're doing with this property or intending on it. I can actually invest in my property. I like that we're going to have a community around there with sidewalks that we don't have to get in a car and drive down to the park. So for the if right next door is me as a community and I can

walk up and down their sidewalk and be part of it. Hey, nobody on Club has ever talked to me except for Chuck uh or on Weeble uh excuse me. Huh? And my he's my only other neighbor that I know. Don't know anybody else here in 25 years and now everybody's concerned. Um, traffic. You guys have done a phenomenal job. Not that I like roundabouts, but the traffic has gone down so much that there's only certain periods of time of the day where it is busy. And you're going to expect that when you have people going to and fro, but if you go out there right now, I can bet you I could stand in the middle of the road and and not have an issue. So, it's not a big deal. Water, I trust that they're going to do something about it because they have to do something about it. It's a swamp. Okay. And if anybody else went in there, they're gonna have to do something with it. If somebody bought it and just put in one home, they would be spending so much money to try to fix that property that is beneficial to have a a a development like this. Although it's R4 and you know what, things happen. Okay, it's a garbage property and this is a great solution to it. Um bear with me a second here. Uh wildlife. Yeah, there's wildlife there, but also there's wildlife that go on the other side of the Jehovah's. They learn. Okay. And one thing of wildlife, it's not always pretty. It's not pretty when you drag a dead deer out of the road. Or in Mike's situation, Mike broke his ankle trying to drag a deer out of the road that ended up not being dead. I don't know anybody here has pulled a dead deer off and had to bury it. I didn't bury my property. I buried it on that property. You're going to change the zoning, too. Um, yeah, there is w uh deer, there's raccoons, squirrels. I mean, but the scariest thing is those coyotes that come through there and I've had them on trail cam and if that diverts all the nature, so be it. The deer still walk through her yard. They walk through

their yard, my yard. I see them. Okay. Um, let's see here. The sense of community progress. Um, other than that, I think I've tried to answer everything. I'm very proponent for this property. I know it's going to change things, but I've known in advance and I do like what they're what they're intending. These are not garbage homes. If you look at what they're doing at the end of 8 mile where you at um uh 125 and 8 mile where they just put rows and rows and rows and rows rows of everything, that would devastate the area or what they're doing at the end of Vuckton right now. This is a wellthoughtout plan that's going to fit into uh that spot and will very much benefit this community. I know the property value is going to go up. I know my taxes are going to go up. But you know what? Your home is your investment. And that's a sacrifice that we make sometimes to have an investment. And we live in a very, very good community right now. It's still developing. But I love being able to go down the street to JJ's. And you know what? I love that we have six grocery stores in the area. If I wanted to see deer and wanted solitude, I would have to go out to Adams County and then I'd have to drive 45 minutes to get somewhere. This is a sacrifice that we make living where we're at.

Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. No questions for me. Great. Not at the time. Not at this time. Martha's not coming up. I don't think she heard you.

Oh, Martha. I'm Mark the Hall and I'm his wife and I've lived in that 959 Puff Pike for 30 years. I bought it as a two-bedroom, one bath house and supposed to be a starter home and I never thought I'd still be living there, but I like where I live. It's convenient. It's gotten more convenient. And as Chris said, this property was going to be something once the township took it over. I knew the people that owned the property that the township, well, they died and then that ended up going blah blah blah blah. Anyway, the township ended up with it and they were going to put a road down there to put traffic out for the school or something, you know, and I was like, "Oh, God, that's going to be a nightmare." you know, all these people coming and going. And so, like Chris, there is progress going to be made. Something's going to happen with that property. And I like this solution to the township doing this, you know, letting them have this property to do this with. I think it's one of the best ideas people have come up with other than just leave it alone. and I don't think the township wants to do that. So that's all I have to say.

Thank you. Thank you. Last on the list is Tim Gillum. Please tell us your address, Mr. Gillum. He's got a

address is 4312 Wellington Drive in the Chantel Chant subdivision. I live down toward the very end of Wellington uh at the roundabout and we've had a lot of things affect us recently. Uh I've got several concerns here about this. Like when I heard about a new development going in, the first thing I thought of is what's gone in so far with fourstory apartment buildings that they put on the high school property and the effect that that's got on the entire area in that that's around them. the when I when we moved in there 28 years ago and built a house uh all single [clears throat] uh resident houses with nice lots on them and stuff and now what's come in around us has really changed the area beyond belief on there with that and the development there across from the park where the old farm used to be the development that was proposed proposed to come in on the L's farm there and dump all of the traffic onto Shanta Clear and come out right on the curve at Plough Pike. If that if you guys had approved that, that would you know the things are being proposed to put in there makes me concerned about people that come in and want to put in a new development. Are they concerned about the people in that area? What it's going to do to our area? The the I say the proposal on the L's farm there and to dump I forget how many

was. they were going to have uh 28 buildings or something on like the same amount of property that uh proposing now and then have one exit on it to come out on Shanta Clair to come out on the dead man's curve as it's known by and has been for years and we all know how cloth pike is now where you how dangerous is with no easements on the sides and stuff. So it makes me wonder about the people that proposed things to come in here what their concerns are. This poor gentleman has already spoke about, you know, five feet from his property. What kind what kind of drainage thing can they put in an area this wide this wide before he get right to the edge of his house? So I don't that and that's on the paper. That's what they're proposing. So, it makes me wonder how much they really thought about that. Uh, also property taxes. What would the status of property taxes be on this development? Does if this says 28 people owning half of a building, they pay property tax on their what they what they own. Are there any abatements being given would be given to a development of this type where we hear about new things coming in all the time and and the strain that's put on it but the developers don't

don't worry about that. They don't pay anything. They make the money off the sale. They're gone. They've moved on. So in in response to this question, Mr. Mr. Lewis was pointing out there were no abatements listed. These are deed lots. So they they would be paying property taxes on the lots that they own. Okay. Which there's a line that goes through the common wall that they have. So those would be the lots. And to the best of our knowledge, there are no abatements list. And M. McCormack, I don't I've not heard anything.

No, there's there's nothing I've heard of in terms of abatements at all. And then the other thing to consider in addition to paying for the property taxes for their lots which includes the unit plus some of the space, they're also going to have a HOA situation where they're going to have to like pay for the common area. So that will include the storm water basin, right?

And um the open space area and anything that might otherwise be an improvement could include lighting even as an example. Okay, that's that's good to know with you. Uh, and the question is brought up before any problems with this area. Who's responsible for taking care of it? You know, is is it going to go to 28 different people and expect them to fix something that's, you know, to be responsible for paying for something that happens on that property? If it's a water if it's a water issue, you go to the county. If the county can't solve the problem, then you sue the homeowners association. But your first recourse would be you're probably talking to water issue. That would be the county.

What's required a homeowners association to stay there. Please, I I should not have said that. You would go to the county. So, the county would be in charge of the water management system on the property while the development's underway. The developer would be the responsible party. At some point once it's it's built out it would go to the HOA and then in terms of enforcement it depends on what the issue is. If it's a storm water issue the enforcement authority would be the county. So it depends on what the issue would be as to like the street

ultimately it's it's either going to go to the developer during the time that the project is underway or the HOA and then in terms of like which entity to go to for enforcement if you have a problem. It depends on what the problem is. Well, the HOA is the residence, isn't it? There you go. If if problems caused by the developers, then the people that own properties are going to Your property isn't adjacent to this development. Is that correct? So, you would not personally be having an issue with this uh indirectly. You don't know. I don't I don't know on this like talking about lighting and stuff. the new apartments that came in to us right now. Four stories again, but that's a separate development.

Okay. I mean, I I appreciate your position. This is a multi-unit development coming in just like the other or not just like the other

and when I saw this as far as being condos, I was relieved that it wasn't going to be, you know, some other type of development. So, that it looks pretty nice. Yeah. um the the the safety on Cliff Pike. I've already talked about schools, you know, when you get a high density developments coming in and uh the effects on the schools now we're getting so many with the um development across from the park, apartments going in, you know, farther down Cloth Pike and stuff and apartments coming in here. We're getting so many multi-unit developments that I would hate to have my kid in Clough Pike school right now. If we get more and more high density developments in here, are as taxpayers are we going to be as property taxpayers, are we going to have to foot the cost of a new school to handle that?

Well, that's speculative and and that's not the purpose of this commission. I will also It's an effect that such a development would add to. I will also correct that these are not multifamily units. These are single family variable structure units. So these are not apartment buildings. Yes. Like a duplex house is what it is. By dividing a house owning half of a building, you are single resident. I I thought that was a little tricky. These terms have specific definitions. I know. So what [clears throat] we're talking about is not multif family. Yes. Okay. So that's savantics there. No, it's a legal definition.

Yeah. Yeah. But when I when I hear single single res or single family homes or single resident properties, I think of a house. We're turning our area from R1 to R4s, R3s, or or whatever. I think kind of have to look at what's our whole township going to be known as. Is it going to be uh gone from little farms and little houses or regular houses, smaller lots or stuff? Now it's apartment buildings everywhere or condos everywhere on it. I think that kind of affects how people, you know, want to live there or not. I think that's pretty much all of my concerns I have on there from the school. How did how did the township come about owning that property?

That was already discussed. Yeah, that was that was discussed earlier in the meeting. It was acquired as part of the development of in on the school site. So that wasn't this commission didn't acquire it. I didn't catch that. I couldn't hear. So that's good. Okay. I think it was intended to be a roadway at some point for the school. That was what was discussed.

That's what I'd always heard that they were going to do that I [clears throat] which made sense to me at that time on that. Uh only other thing I had was lights. Like say how's that affect me on that? I'm thinking about these other people with like say twotory things overlooking them and the lighting and stuff. So I kind of agree with them on that and that's all I had. Thank you. Thank you sir. Uh anyone else would like to comment? Yes. If you could bring that sheet up to us. Thank you. Uh, please.

My name is Mike Maher. I live at 960 Club Pike. Uh, also directly I'm the little green pie chart right across from the road to be built and I have a just a couple concerns and uh not necessarily for or against anything here. Uh, but the street seems to be well two things. If you're turning right out of that paisley, you have about a 60 66 degree turn on a narrow road. Matter of fact, today somebody hit a mailbox and ended up in the ditch. Uh I'm just wondering if the green space at the end, and this is probably for, you know, you consider variable or, you know, proving with variables, but if you could square that up perpendicular clike in that green space, you'd have a 90° turn to turn left or right. The other thing is the lights right now may be hitting my house on everybody coming down at night and our bedrooms on the front of the street there, you know. So, um, if it was turned a little bit last 30, 40 feet, just a few degrees, it would shoot in the there's a woodsy area that also I don't want to beat a dead horse, but it's a three-foot ditch, 100 ft on my property, and the storm water comes down both sides of Cluff Pike, crosses the road into my yard, and runs across a driveway going into one of my neighbors, and then into this lady's house or her yard. And when that backs up, it's a 40 foot ditch. So, but you all know that it's a swamp land. Uh so that's my two concerns is uh a lot of lights [clears throat] coming down the street at night just hit my house or I'm not sure exactly you know the final well obviously that's not the final claim but if you look at where the road is or bring up the picture of my well you

can't do the u the one on the okay on the house that that little roadway is aiming at [laughter] and you can see how that angle is a pretty sharp angle to turn right. It's it's almost hard right now to not turn right out of my driveway, which mine is rectangular or mine is 90° without crossing the center line. And with all that traffic, sometimes that means I have to wait twice as long to get out on the fluff pipe just because of the, you know, because they're coming from both directions and they're never timed right. So that's all I got to say. water and lighting.

Thank you. Thank you. Um, anyone else wishing to make comment? Yes, sir. Okay. How you doing? Doing well, thank you. Could you announce your name?

Ricky Panther. I'm probably the youngest on the street. I love the street. Union Township. It's a great area. Uh, you know, we moved here. I did move from the city about seven years ago and uh about three years in my son's car actually got totaled in front of our house because of how busy it is. I live like not the corner house but I'm the next house in and uh actually the girl took off running. One of my mechanics got her caught her but my son got t-boned out there. You know I love all the neighbors. So the man behind us saying he you know we never talked. I help every neighbor. I love all of them cuz this area is great but like it is becoming overly dense. The traffic some days my wife waits 20 minutes to get my son out to school. You know that that is my main concern is the traffic now. Water it's terrible. It sits at my two corner neighbors house. It puddles in their yard horribly. I mean like out in the ditch line it's it's it's bad. like you know good rain it does and I know you know that there's fixes to that and it's not you guys it's it's well beyond that next the sidewalk I have no idea how there will ever be a sidewalk on Club Pike they would get killed it is dangerous that area out there is you know a racetrack and you know that's uncontrollable you guys can't control how fast people drive up and down club Pike so you know there's a lot of major concerns I love it it's wooded you know we do get a lot of animals. You know, my kids love to play in the yard. You know, I got a putting green in the yard. It's just like it's it it is a very, you know, pretty area where we live on our street. You guys caught us acted. It was a cutthrough street. That was a drag strip. It would back up well past our house. It's much better now. You know,

the only traffic we get is child focus. That's it. It's great. But, you know, getting out on cluff, that's the main concern. It's blind. You know, you got that curve there at Chant Clear. My friend lives in that corner house. They go into his yard a lot. So, you know, just that's a few of my concerns. Okay. Anyone questions? Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Anyone else wishing to speak? Okay. Uh at this time, we are going to close the public comment portion of the meeting. So the meeting will still continue but conversation is going to be confined to commission members to deliberate. Uh we do reserve the right to ask questions of the applicant or anyone else in attendance. Um Mr. Corman I do have two points of information for clarification. Yes. All these lots were required in 2015. I did figure that out. Okay.

And then the question of where the drainage goes upstream north of the project site. um that all drains from this basin here over to this lake over here. Um so that little more information, some of it's relevant to when the property was purchased and then the drainage where the water's coming. And then of course, you know, the other comment I would make about drainage is if nothing happens with the project, the d the water problems that people have will continue until some project happens down the road to take care of the drainage issues. So general question on another one. The last traffic study you mentioned was done in 2022. That was the traffic counts. Okay.

Um so that was the last count I could find. Okay. And one of the other things is probably worth mentioning is a lot of the traffic patterns right now in the Eastgate area. Cleer Glenn Estie Wthamsville um Kluff Bach Buckton East Gate South. We they're not we don't know that these patterns are permanent yet. Okay. Cluff is not going to be super low volume. That 2022 counts probably in the ballpark of what it's going to be. However,

you know, 32 work is still continuing. That's throwing some things off. Originally in 25 we were supposed to have a project on Bach Buckston that was going to um add sidewalks from Cleer and Bach Buckston all the way to the high school and even branch off into some of the neighborhoods on the way there. That project got delayed to this year because they're going to put a roundabout where Cleer meets Bach Buckster just south of that intersection. There might be a second one in there too. So [snorts] even though the 32 work's not completed, we're going to have another roundabout construction um that's about to start and the sidewalk work. So we probably won't really know what the traffic patterns are until like end of 26, end of 27, like when things stabilize, assuming that there's not another big project that's put on the docket at that point. Usually the projects have to get scheduled a couple years out. Um so the we the the patterns that are there now they're not completely normalized. Um they may be inflated a little bit in some places and this might be one of those areas. [snorts] It's hard to say until we can go back and count after the the projects are over with but the 2022 period might be might have been done early enough that it's closer to what it was before. Correct.

You know that's the best I can say. And to your point Mr. McCormack u I mean a great deal of development in the township was done before the requirements of storm retention or detention which is why a lot of our older neighborhoods and we hear it a lot have storm water runoff issues and generally new developments because we require storm retention or detention tend to alleviate those issues usually gets better not worse. So, um, but I'll open it up to members of the commission to discuss this particular proposal. Would anyone like to Mr. Yeah, I do. I do. I really do. Um,

you're saving me from having to call on people, which is great. Thank you, [laughter] Mark. Um, are is a developer required to do any kind of phase one or two studies on that? Do you know? The reason I'm asking for my former employer, I bought a very large parcel for them and I had to do phase one and phase two, which got us into the wetland concept, which became a real problem.

Yeah. So, as part of the due diligence process for acquiring the property, that's something that they can do. I'm not aware of of any work like that that's happened with the township. I don't up until recently I had really not significant knowledge about the property. We you know we've owned it for far beyond the time that I've worked with the township. I've been here about three and a half years. Um, I would say it doesn't flag on anything that I've seen as having um the closest stream, for example, is um to the north and it looks like the blue line stops before it hits the site. Um, I've not seen anything like the OKI en environmental viewer is a pretty good resource. I didn't see anything on there about endangered species being flagged in that area or you know there's no flood plane. There's no obvious wetland area.

We didn't have that either. But so normally what happens is when the buyer is um looking to buy the property, they have the option to do that. If it looks like there may be an issue, usually somebody will at least do the desktop review or the phase one. Um, you know, prior to the last couple weeks, we had no reason to think that we even had anything to worry about there. Um, it's something that could be done, but right now, um, it hasn't been done.

Okay. Um, to the developers, can this be downsized at all? I mean, you got what, 28 units going in on the orange. Can you go with two less on that side? I I I have some empathy for the the neighbor that has to have the house right next to the property line. But you're talking about this one units 19 and 20. Yes, that's kind of where I'm at. Make that green space which

two things we can do there. One, you could go with less units and then we could also shift everything out. That was mine.

All you have to say, that Yeah, [laughter] no, no, you're fine. You're fine.

All right, I'll go next. For me, I'm a big fan of R4 and we've we've had some really good R4s, but if we recommend approval of this plan, then we're saying that these regulations are meeting us because this thing does not fit the R4 regulations. [snorts] The R4 steps right in and says it has to be in harmony with the surrounding area. But this is this is not in harmony. This is a density three times what is existing all around it. the the the 2030 plan calls for uh large lot when it's not in a focus area, large lot development, two to two to four units per acre. That means it should be like eight units uh in there, maybe maybe 10, but bottom line, R4 [clears throat] is also supposed to be a clustering of homes with a common shared open space that people can use. The last two R4s we've gotten aren't R4s, and this is one of them. It just doesn't have any common open space. It doesn't meet and if you get to the technical requirements, it doesn't meet nearly the formal. It's submitted as a formal plan. It's missing a a great number of the formal plan technical requirements. In fact, it doesn't even meet all the concept plan requirements. It's missing concept plan requirements. So, it it in my opinion, it it fails in in both areas. It doesn't meet requirements of the R4. And we have a a unique opportunity in that this property is owned by the township. It could be considered and and and stated slated as green space or possibly a passive uh park or a uh a bird sanctuary. And if the township so desired, we could put in a water management control in the center of it. Put a little little detention pond. It could be left as a green space. There's been so much development. If you zoom out on the map, you look at the intense level of development around here or around this this area around Weebold, around the school, around across the

street in Weatherbe. Uh there's been a tremendous amount of of development and to have a little green space, you know, not even four acres, I think, would would be ideal. And that's what my recommendation would be is for the trustees to consider dedicating as some type of a green space. again, passive uh could be uh public access, no parking spots, but it could just be a a passive green space and water management could be done, but it it just doesn't it it it fails the 2030 plan and it fails the R4 requirements clearly. Uh and and that's that's [clears throat] my position and and we need and we got to stop getting plans like this that are so far out of scope of of what the requirements are. It it's frustrating. I find it frustrating. That's all I got.

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Mr. Tough, I'd concur with him. Even Even if you max out and say it's four acres, you're talking 16 if that maxed out. So, better number be 10 to 12. Yeah, I'm thinking 10 to 12 like you said.

And u you know, again, we can't speak to the water because that that comes later. Uh traffic along that section. Um again, depends on the time of day. I'm a mile a little bit further down. Took me about eight minutes to get out of my driveway tonight coming here just time of day. Um so I I sympathize with all that because again the other question is these don't appear to be so much empty neester uh type of places with basement and second stories. Uh it might be a little bit more upscale outside of empty nesters. usually empty nesters, you see a ranch style home. Um, at least as far as what we've seen recently.

So, you're not climbing stairs. Yeah. So, um, that was my my main concern when I saw a second story on the on the ones down this way. Um, and basements and all the in all of them, both sides of the street. So that would that was it raised them again a little bit of a red flag because the the empty neester type of developments we've seen in the last several years have been not this. So if if I'm recollecting correctly. So those were my concerns.

Well, right. Well, and traditionally our four cluster homes, shared amenities, that that's what you would look at and when you're gearing towards, you know, aging in place is a goal of the 2030 plan and being cognizant of our aging demographic. Mr. Hon and I agree with what you just said. Um, it isn't make it a lot more dense. There's going to no question about it. Class bad enough as it is. Um, I I agree with your comments that you've just made. What are your thoughts?

Uh, well, I have the same concerns, which is um the 2030 plan is guidance that we have on this. And the 2030 plan, [clears throat] we're outside of a focus district. We're not in a specific corridor. And it's large single family lot, correct?

Development. and this proposal, although there's a lot to admire about high quality building materials, they're very aesthetically pleasing. Um certainly, you know, attracting high dollar investment in the township is usually a positive. Um the problem is it's too many units on too little land. Um, and it's hard to square that density with our with the [clears throat] guidance that we're given, which is the 2030 plan. And Mr. Lewis also brings up very important uh aspects of, you know, a formal plan and a concept plan and what are the requirements and the the zoning resolutions are clear that if if we don't have it, it's to be denied.

Correct. So, um, and we're we're being pushed further and further. Every time we we get one of these plans, we're being asked to to dump these requirements back to the to the staff to the to the zoning staff to fix the the developers shortcomings on the plan. And that that's wrong. That's and that's not what the regulations call for. And, you know, like you said, alone just by missing the the the technical requirements, but it goes deeper here. This is just a a a inappropriate plan for the location it is in.

It may you know if it was out in a field somewhere it it could be fine but it's surrounded by large lot development completely surrounded except for the school side on the very north very small piece. So I' I'd be happy to make a a motion recommending denial based on the points I made. Uh and if there's support for it great if not uh what would you prefer to do? It's your question. Well, now any member of the commission is permitted to formulate a motion and if that motion draws a second, we'll call we'll call the question. I mean, that's how this works. So, Mr. Lewis, if you would like to formulate a motion, that doesn't bar anyone else from doing correct.

Anyone else wants to make a motion as as well? Correct. And for any members of the public who wish to stay after the resolution of this case, we do have a a proposed uh zoning resolution text amendment regarding uh lighting regulations in the township. Lighting has been brought up a lot tonight. So, if anyone wants to hang around for that portion, normally we don't get as much public participation when it comes to text amendments, but uh you're more than welcome to stay.

It might be illuminating. Very funny, Mr. To. They can stay around before. May the applicant ask a clarifying question.

Uh I I'm willing to allow you to ask a question. Yeah, if you would please. Mr. Lewis is saying that the the plan is missing things, but you know, I'm looking at the formal plan [music] contents list and I'm just curious what he thinks is missing. I'm I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but you know, I looked at the same list [clears throat] when we put together the plan and I'm curious what is deficient because I don't want that to be a reason to to deny. And that's understood. Mr. Lewis is digging it up as we speak. Sure.

I mean, Mr. McCormack could list them out. I mean, the lighting plans missing, detailed vegetative plan is missing. The uh uh So, we have a landscape plan. Missing. I'm sorry. We have contours on page two. We have a landscape plan on page three. That landscape plan is very short, but that is where the landscaping is proposed. So, if you're saying it is you want more landscaping, that is certainly [clears throat] your prerogative. But to say it's completely missing, I think is unfair to the applicant. You know, the lighting, it's it's noted on there that post lamps, one per lot, will be installed. Like again, that is that's not what it calls for.

I on the on the uh the topography plan that is barely visible. I'm not seeing the notation as to bar what the what the dips are, what the what the graduations are between the uh I'm not seeing any context on it unless it's really really light.

The the contours are on yet they're probably too light with the aerial on behind it. That is fair. supposed to show the existing topographic features at two foot intervals. Again, I'm not even seeing the topographic lines on this on my thing. the existing contours and it is flat but they are on page two. We typically do a plat looking plan that has cleaner lines of lots and then more of the utility layout contour type things on the second page.

And my my plan does not show any storm water retention. I know when it was discussed, but there's nothing on the plan that shows storm water retention. There are pond contours shown on that gap in the lots where the low point of the site is. It's just called open [clears throat] space. It's denoted as open space. I think he's referring to the circles. Yeah, the contour. Those would be the contours of the So you're saying So you're saying the open space?

So you're saying that whole big circle is going to be the detention pot, not open space. So the open space like Mark said earlier is labeling all of that green hatch is HOA maintained buffer area including the storm water management area but that section you're referring to with the contour oval is where the pond would be correct. So it's not it is open space but technically it's the detention

detention. Yeah, I mean some of these items are in my some of the items that we're talking about we knew were going to we would be addressed at a later point in time. For example, like with the lighting, we told them they just need to note that all lighting is going to be downward directed and shielded, dark sky compliant, [clears throat] and that they were going to prepare compliant lighting plan later because a lot of applicants don't want to pay someone who's a specialty person to do that plan unless they know that they're going to get the zoning part approved. with landscaping. They showed some plantings on page two. The part that I wanted clarification on was are they is the intention to retain the existing vegetation? And they said, "Yes, that's what we want to do." And I said, "Well, you're going to need to label that so that that's augmenting your landscaping plan." Um, so a lot of these items are here or were addressed by note. Um there are some kind of smaller things that could be addressed at a later point in time,

but really this is a concept plan with the idea being that the formal full development construction plan would be submitted later if the reszone gets approved which is what normally happens with many other big projects. They're not. So while Mr. Lewis and Mr. To were speaking, Mr. McCormack just clarified. I believe that the intention is that this is a concept plan and not a formal plan. Although it

we would get the construction document if the rezone would move forward. We would get the more fleshed out document details after a reason would happen. We would get the development plan aka something that's called a construction plan, a formal plan, whatever you want to call it that would have all these details that you're talking about. And the other thing is with landscaping plans, and this is with a lot of landscaping plans, when we get a landscaping plan, even when they call out the details of what the plantings are going to be, that plan can totally change come next year because it's all dependent on what the landscapers can get them. Correct.

So even if they planned on putting white pines in there, if they can't get them the next year, they're going to have to switch them out for some sort of arborite or something else. Right. The And so it happens all the time. They they and the applicants don't want to spend money, you know, having an LA person do a plan and then have to turn around and pay somebody to do it again the next year. It's pretty common. So, we tell them, you know, give us a plan, give us a reasonable idea of what you're going to do, and then we'll flesh it out during the construction process. All [clears throat] right. I'll uh I'll leave that section out out of the motion. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate it. Really. Thank you.

All right. I've got the first I've got the uh the summary of what we've got. All right. I'm going to make a uh a motion. Case 1-26-Z. Applicant Brookstone Homes. Excuse [clears throat] me. Brookstone Homes, parcel 413102 A205 413102 A206 413102 A007. zoning commission finds that the submitted R4 plan application and zone change request is not consistent with the Horizon 2030 land use plan and does not meet all the plan development application requirements of an R4 concept plan in this case concept or formal. Therefore, the commission recommends the submitted plan be denied based on the finding followings of fact. The gross density of the proposed development is 7.8 units per acre. The Horizon 2030 land use plan recommends residential densities should respect existing single family large lot development patterns already established in the township and typically achieve the densities between 2.5 and four units per acre. Fact two, the first fundamental requirement of an R4 proposed plan reference 650.1 is that it be in harmony with the residential residential areas located in proximity to the site to be developed considering the nature of all adjacent properties. The submitted R4 plan is not compliant with this requirement. Recommendation of the commission. As this property is owned by our township and considering the high level of development and the overall surrounding area, this commission recommends consideration be given to setting aside the proposed site as permanent green space or very low impact park area or bird sanctuary. That concludes my motion. We can ask if anyone uh has any anything to add to it before we do a second. Or we could do the second first.

Correct. So the floor is open on Mr. Lewis's motion. Second. Well, I I have a regularly made and seconded motion. It's the motion is remains open for discussion if anyone has anything. Anyone want to modify it? I think that's succinct. And we had a second there. Yes. Regularly made you discuss the motion. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So the the motion is open for discussion, but I'm hearing no discussion from anyone. Anyone? Very well. Mr. McCormack, if you'd call roll, please. Mr. Beckman? Yes. Mr. Campbell? Yes. Mr. Lewis?

Yes. Mr. Tooff? Yes. Mr. Honoral? Yes. Motion passes. Okay. [clears throat] And just for everyone's edification, Mr. McCormick, this case will be heard by the Union Township Trustees on February 10th, 6 PM in this very room. All right. Thank you. The me the meeting starts at 6. The actual case depends on what's on the agenda.

We do have one other item. going to say I I we're moving uh to case number 2-25T which is a proposed zoning resolution text amendment regarding article 14 lighting sections 1400 through408 including cross references sections 8 9 and 11. For those leaving if you could please uh get your voices down and you can continue conversations in the atrium. We still have a meeting to finish. Thank you. We appreciate your attendance. Okay. I don't think they heard you then. Hey guys, everyone.

A public meeting is still ongoing. If you would continue conversations in the atrium. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate your attendance. So, we're on the 2-25-T. Yes, Mr. McCormack. We have a staff report.

Yes. The this is the for three of you. You have seen the lighting um proposed text I think three maybe four times. And so the last time the zoning commission reviewed this text um I think was the third time and um there have not been any changes since it went back to staff legal counsel. What happened was the trustees put together approved the resolution to formalize moving forward with the process. They're sending it back to you more or less saying they think that everybody's good with it. Now they want the recommendation the formal recommendation from the zoning commission to send to them. So if you've seen something in here that jumps out of you that you didn't see previously, let's talk about that. And if not, and if people are good or if they if the new members have questions, um, we can talk about that. And if if there aren't any questions and people are good with the language, then we can make a motion to forward it to the trustees to hear at their next meeting. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say for the new people, we've gone over this a couple previous meetings and and flesh it out fairly well. But that being said, you have questions. You're here uh and your opinion matters and you're acting as commission members. So, um any questions or comments regarding this proposed uh change to the zoning resolutions? No, I do not. Okay, just so you know in summary, we currently do not have lighting standards. Correct.

We just have one a one liner that says everything has to be downward directed and shielded. Doesn't even say dark sky compliant. So, what we're doing is we're establishing numbers for the phototric plans or lighting plans that are consistent with like what I've used elsewhere and Cory's you may be used elsewhere. And we've also put some things in there that the neighbors can't put lights that are directed towards the neighbors. You know, same thing can't happen with businesses, of course, and so forth. But, um, it's it's just to provide some standards that we really don't have at all at this point.

Well, and just for the public codification, it's it it's true regarding what you've just said, but we have been enforcing lighting standards via plan approval processes. So when we've had a zone map amendment like a a plan development go in, we have been we've been including enforceable standards in it that way. But this is a a better cleaner way. It's also a way for anyone any member of the public or any proposed developer to come pull the zoning resolutions and actually see what the standards are. Yes. Uh without having to meet with staff directly as part of that process, which the problem is if you rely simply on the staff, it can vary. Correct.

And by having it written down, that that variance is part is taken away a lot more clears and you're not having to be dependent on who you're talking to, you know, whether there's change over in the staff or you're talking to one planner [clears throat] versus another or what have you, right?

Um, so yeah, this is this is I think fairly safe language. Next month you're going to have a meeting to talk about text amendments. I feel like at least one of those items may still have some wiggle room to change and that's the short-term rental text, right? Because I think the neighbors are still going to have input and the board of zoning appeals still has um interest in it and they may show up even at the meeting. I've heard, you know, at least one of them say they may show up and just talk about it. And so that one out of all the ones we've been reviewing, I could still see maybe some tweaking going on between now and whenever something gets passed. But this one's pretty been pretty good and and the other ones that we've talked about today have been pretty good. There's a new one next month that you haven't dealt with that probably will generate some discussion as well, but this one and the the maintain long um draft that you'll see next month. Those were we thought pretty easy ones.

Yep. No. So that I mean it's just a good thing that we we get this on paper. it makes sense for all the reasons you articulated. Um, so I normally would open it up for public comment. No members of the public are remaining in the room. So we'll close that section now. Bor the last one and we we've already we've already discussed this uh at length. So if everyone's comfortable, I'll go ahead and proceed to formulate a motion. Again, that isn't to provide a chilling effect on anyone else from formulating their own motions. No, I don't have a motion to make. I'm gonna let the new chair do that now. Go for it, young man. So,

I've made motions before. Um, so

case number 2-25-T zoning resolution text amendment. The zoning commission finds that the proposed text amendment the Union Township zoning resolution is consistent with the intent of the uh zoning resolutions and the comprehensive land use plan 2030. Uh the modifications being considered applied to article 14 lighting sections 1400 through 1408 including cross references to section 8 9 and 11. Uh this commission therefore recommends the text amendments be adopted as submitted to con to the commission on January the 28th 2026. And that concludes my motion. I'll second that motion.

We've regularly made and seconded motion. Any discussion hearing? None. Mr. McCormick, could you call roll? Yes. Mr. Beckman? Yes. Mr. Lewis? Yes. Mr. Tooff? Yes. Mr. Honor? Yes. Mr. Campbell? Yes.

Motion passes. Uh, I already went over. We will have a meeting in February. There will be no case for February. There will be um the text amendments that I was mentioning. Um the short-term rentals, the maintain yards are um one case that you've seen in the past. And then the other one that the trustees are forwarding to you has to do with the number of marijuana dispensaries allowed in the township. Pretty much it's a matter of changing the number. I think for now the numbers the number existing number is two. I think the draft is going to be six and we're going to wait and see what happens at the discussion from the zoning commission and also the trustees meeting as to whether or not they want to change it and if and if so what number they land on. That's really the only thing that they're looking at is the number

pop like the vape stores now. So, interestingly enough, there are no limits on vape stores. We have talked we had talked about putting uh limits on vape stores. And the thing is the marijuana dispensaries are are regulated very strictly, right? In a lot of ways. Um the meeting you want to adjourn and we Yeah, I was I was just about to say we're we're now straying past our agenda,

but I wanted to make it for our new members. There's just a couple points I want to make about our previous case. I I the developer successfully diverted me from another important point about the regulations. What's going on with with R4s is they're being submitted to us the last two that do not are not in harmony with with what's e either they're not in harmony with what's surrounding or another and that's number one and and 650.3 is provides common open spaces for the preservation of the site's physical assets andor recreational utilization by the occupants of the development. The last two R4s had no shared usable open space for the occupants. And that's a key function of the R4 is that there's com there's you allow clustering together, maybe even a little higher density, but there's a common usable open space. That's what an R4 is supposed to be. And the last two we've gotten don't have don't have that that open space. This one was not in harmony and didn't have the open space. And I should have included that in a motion and I didn't. I got distracted and that's my fault. U the common open space is important to the R4 and it clear it's it's the third lit item on the on the fundamental requirements of the R4 and we're seeing these plans come to us that that are not consistent with the regulations and when they're not consistent we're very upfront we're supposed to deny it right off the bat and that's that's is that's an important technical that's an important aspect of an ARO as much as the the technical aspects on the under concept plan and contents and formal plan of contents. So R4s are are very useful. We've had some great R4s, but they're not coming to us recently. These things without any common shared open space where they try to cram as many units in there as they possibly can and not meet the intent or the written requirements of the R4. That's that's what's frustrating.

Do they have the binders? Yes. Okay. Just making sure. Um, having reached the end of our agenda, yes, I solicit a motion to adjourn. Second. I'll make a motion we make it. We have a second. I'll second. I've regularly made a second motion that we adjourn the meeting. Mr. Fick, if you call roll. Mr. Beckman. Yes. Mr. Lewis. Yes. Mr. Tooff? Yes. Mr. Honol? Yes. Mr. Campbell? Yes. Motion is passed. Okay. We are adjourned at 8:58 p.m. Quick question for you on