City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call to order the May 27, 2026 meeting in the Fond du Lac City Council. Our first item of business is roll call, done electronically, and I will declare a quorum is present with Ms. Luehring absent. The next item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance, followed by a moment of silent reflection. Please rise at this time. Next on our agenda is a proclamation. And we have a proclamation tonight for Fond du Lac Fire and Rescue with their check presentation to the American Red Cross. So those that want to meet me, those that want to meet down front for there.

Thank you.

Thank you all. Next on our agenda is the consent agenda, which finalizes the proposed actions for the meeting. May 13th, 2026, and the list of claims dated May the 20th, 2026. Are there any questions or corrections to the consent agenda? Seeing no questions or corrections, I'll entertain a motion at this time. I see a motion by Mr. Mullin and a second by Ms. Perrault. Thank you both. Any further discussion? Seeing none, please proceed to vote. And the consent agenda passes unanimously. With that, we have our audience comments. Agenda and non-agenda items are next. The presenting officer shall limit the speaking time for non-agenda items to two minutes and items noticed on the agenda to five minutes. Ms. Hefter, do we have any speakers? We do not have any speakers, but we have Craig Wilson, who is a proponent of the surplus property discussion for later on in our meeting. With that, we'll close out audience comments. Thank you, Ms. Hefter. And we'll move on to our action items. Action item A tonight is the resolution pertaining to the amendment to the sewer service area of the City of Fond du Lac Metropolitan Planning Organization. Planning Commission's recommendation on this is to approve. I believe, Mr. DeVries, you have the introduction on this one? Thank you.

Thank you, President Heisler. So yeah, the city is part of the MPO, which is a organization that encompasses the village of North Fond du Lac, the city and some surrounding townships. And part of what they're charged with doing is setting a sewer service area. So what we do is we look at what lands can be served by our sanitary sewer that goes to our wastewater plant. And that is something we updated back in 2018. And so at that time, we did not anticipate this particular property Maybe if you can pull up maybe the map and just show what we're talking about the area. So this is a land just east of 151, north of 23. This land was thought to be in a possible conservancy at that time, so we did not include it. We actually have an 18 inch interceptor just to the east of this. We have plenty of capacity and we're able to serve this at the wastewater treatment plant. So it was more maybe just an oversight at the time. We thought it wouldn't be included. And now the development, I believe you rezoned and did a special use permit back in March for this property as a senior living facility. And so at this time, when we approached East Central, they said we needed to amend the map just to make sure it was included. which is kind of the legal thing. We'll send it to the DNR when we're done with it, but it makes sense to us. We're not, we don't have any issues with serving the property. It was just more not anticipated at the time when we did the amendment. So plan commission recommended approval and staff recommends approval as well. So with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Mr. DeVries. Great introduction, and thank you for all the context on that. Are there any questions from council for Mr. DeVries on this? Seeing no questions for Mr. DeVries, I'll entertain a motion at this time. I have a motion by Mr. Zimmerman and a second by Ms. Mayweather. Thank you both. Any further discussion? Seeing no further discussion, please proceed to vote. And that passes unanimously. Thank you, Mr. DeVries. We're gonna move on to action item B, which is a resolution declaring surplus property at 28 East Bank Street. That's resolution number 9243. Ms. Hoffman has the introduction on that for us. Thank you. Thank you.

FILLING IN AT PLANNED COMMISSION, AND AT THE TIME, SOME OF THE INFORMATION WAS NOT AVAILABLE TO PLANNED COMMISSION. BUT IT DID SUBSTANTIALLY BECOME AVAILABLE WHEN MR. WILSON CAME IN AND MET WITH ME AND SHARED SOME OF THESE DOCUMENTS, WHICH I DID ATTACH TO THE AGENDA, AND YOU SHOULD HAVE ALL HAD A CHANCE TO SEE. SO YOU'LL NOTICE THE RESOLUTION ITSELF ALLOWED FOR this City Council to either accept the denial recommendation of the Planning Commission or choose a different path and decide to allow this property to be declared surplus property. So whoever would make a motion would need to make those choices on that resolution. And I understand also that Council Member Mullin may have some more information he wants to share. He was there at the Planning Commission meeting.

Excellent. Thank you for the introduction, Ms. Hoffman. Mr. Mullen, as the member on council at the Planning Commission, I'd like to go to you first.

Yes. So this was at the last, this topic came up at the last Planning Commission meeting. At that time, we had no kind of background information about this, or very little. Subsequent to that, and as a result at that meeting, we voted to deny. Subsequent to that, we found out that Mr. Wilson had been doing a lot of work. The city had made representations to him for many years that this property would eventually be sold to him. And if we had known that at the time, we would have agreed with the declaration. Now I don't, normally when we have these kind of issues where council disagrees with a committee, I don't think it's happened more than once or twice in the last five years, I would normally want to send it back to the committee, but in this case, that would, and since renovations on the property are already going on and repairs to the property, to send this back to plan commission, to have them vote on it again, it comes back to us, it would be an unacceptable delay. And I truly believe that they would approve this had they gotten the information. So with the permission of the president, I would like to make a motion.

I will allow that motion at this time, sir. Thank you.

Okay, the motion will read, now therefore be it resolved by the city council of the city of Fond du Lac to reject the recommendation of the plan commission and declare the property to be surplus and staff is authorized to execute the city council's decision regarding the parcel.

Next one. Thank you for the motion and for the clarifying on that. So we have a motion on the floor by Mr. Mullin. At this point, I would need a second for that motion. We can just do a voice second on that if you guys would like. Thank you, Ms. Brault. We have a motion by Mr. Mullin and a second by Ms. Brault. Any further discussion on this before we would proceed with Mr. Mullin's motion? Joe, we need you to hit the mic.

So the piece of property, they were not gonna put it for surplus for sale originally with the land commission. Was there intent without knowing what you had said previously? And so is it gonna still stay as evidence building for the city or is it gonna go to the gentleman?

Oh no, this is a very small part of that entire parcel. It's just, if you look on there, yeah, it's just that little corner. There's a small concrete building there And that little corner there is what is being declared surplus. The rest of the property is going to stay in city hands. Okay.

Thank you.

Great question. Thank you. And with that, if there aren't any further questions, and we have a motion and a second on the floor, Maggie, are we ready to proceed to vote on that? Let's proceed to vote on Mr. Mullin's motion. And that passes unanimously. Thank you for the motion and the work on that, Mr. Mullin. Thank you, Ms. Hoffman. And with that, we'll move on to the next item on our agenda, which is a resolution waiving the prohibition against possession of alcoholic beverages on specified public ways for Thelma at 51 Sheboygan Street for their concert on Friday, August the 21st, 2026. Ms. Hefter has that introduction for us.

Thank you, President Heisler. Thelma Sadoff Center for the Arts is requesting the city to waive possession of alcoholic beverages on public streets and expand their premises description on Sheboygan Street from Main Street to Merrill Ave for the big concert on Friday, August 21st, 2026. No glass containers or carry-ins are permitted in the designated area. City staff has approved the special event application and recommends approval.

Thank you very much, Ms. Hefter. Any questions from council for Ms. Hefter on this? Seeing no questions, I'll entertain a motion at this time. I see a motion by Ms. Brault and a second by Mr. Biber. Thank you both for the motion and second. Any further discussion on this? Seeing none, please proceed to vote. And that passes unanimously. Thank you all. And with that, we are going to move on to our presentation of input items. We have the update on the designated outdoor refreshment area, otherwise known as DORA. And I believe Ms. Hoffman has that introduction for us.

Yes. Yes, it fell to me. Anyway, the DORA has been discussed. The DFP did a survey which came back a mix. I wouldn't say it wasn't overwhelmingly for nor against. So input was obtained. There's pros and cons for it. The police chief who sends his regrets that he could not be here tonight but did share some of his thoughts with me and he said he did have concerns regarding the possibility of increased Public intoxication, increased disorderly conduct, increased public disturbance. There's some enforcement challenges with keeping it within the boundaries, making sure there aren't minors inside. More trash, more cleanup. So he was concerned about those things. There was also concern about... if there were other establishments that sell alcohol but were not participating and so paying to be part of it, yet they would benefit from it and how we haven't really worked out an answer for that exactly. He was also concerned about just like logistics. and also their staffing. So it would obviously be a strain on police. So there were those concerns from the police department. There was also concerns expressed by Thelma regarding they put on those street festivals, which they pay for, and they use the sale of the refreshments to... support that effort, and they were a little bit concerned that, again, having a door would undercut the revenue that they used to support those bans. So there was that concern. So that's the update that I have so far, and I'm happy to answer any other questions.

Excellent. Thank you, Ms. Hoffman, for the context. That really helps us out a lot as we facilitate this discussion. With this being an input item, just a couple of things really quickly as we begin a discussion of an input item. Remember that each counselor can speak up to twice, and each counselor is allowed five minutes per the topic, so per time of pushing the button. With that said, if anybody would like to weigh in with their thoughts, I'd take them at this time, and I'll save my thoughts till the end. Mr. Mullen, you're in the queue first.

Thank you. As I stated previously, when we've looked at these things, the places where these tend to work have a lot of businesses, entertainment, bars, in a pretty contained geographical area. which makes it easy to police. The ones that I'm aware of, these are actually pedestrian malls, so there's no traffic running through there. People can run around. And it kind of makes sense in an area like that, you know, that, especially on some of these, you know, they have outdoor seating. And so you have people eating at tables, with drinks, they're outside anyway. So you have to make some accommodation. In Fond du Lac, I don't know that we really have it. I mean, where would you designate a DORA that wouldn't encompass a lot of other businesses that may not want to have that kind of traffic, especially during the day. You know, I mean, you know, that's the other question. Okay, do you make this only, you know, eight to midnight or something like that? I just don't think we're really optimally set up physically to benefit from this kind of thing.

Thank you for the thoughts. Ms. Brault, you're next.

All right, thank you. Thank you to Ms. Hoffman and Chief Goldstein and all the city staff that did work on this and also Downtown Finally Partnership. I know there's a lot of work done in doing research for this item, especially because we've seen it effective in other communities, but Mr. Mullin kind of said one of the points I wanted to make as well, that it seems like geographically with where we have our businesses and our bars and different establishments, that it just maybe isn't quite the right fit for us. And then the other thing I just wanted to share is I had residents reach out to me who had concerns about just increasing the availability of alcohol in the community. As Chief Goldstein had in his remarks that Ms. Hoffman shared with us, that does lead to some current concerns, especially access for minors, if there's people that might have more access to alcohol that shouldn't. It started a conversation also about the issue of sobriety and that some people prefer not to have all of our events revolve around alcohol. There's no issue with people who want to partake should be able to and do it safely. we don't want to stop that from happening, but at the same time, maybe by keeping outdoor refreshments limited to special events, that does kind of give us a nice balance of people who know then, like if there's a special event going on, there might be alcohol, served outdoors on the street, and maybe that's a time that they don't want to be downtown, but maybe they want to be downtown other times and not have so much consumption happening. So I think that's a good conversation that we should keep having. We are Wisconsin. We are a place where alcohol is a part of a lot of events, but maybe it's something just to think about, and I appreciate that residents reached out on this to have that conversation. So thank you. Excellent.

Ms. Burrell, appreciate the comments. Anyone else that wishes to speak? I don't have anybody else in the queue. We've got Mr. Viber up next.

Is there boundaries where it's gonna be held at? What, the street, is it just the end of the?

It hasn't been decided. I mean, various maps have been considered.

Are they just looking at basically in front of the library from Portage Street over to Marr Street?

For our special events, there's been various. It depends on the special event, you know, who the organizer is and where they want to have it, how that's been set up. So we've had a variety of different places have, you know, a special event where alcohol is allowed. But where it was going to work for this, again, it kind of depended what people chose, you know, how they want to set this up. It could be a permanent or it could be based by special event.

I guess I understand concerns both sides of it. What the, with it not, but just see where the boundaries are. They can kind of contain that, but is it going to be for a big portion all the way to Main Street and all that, or just in front of the Thelma?

It's for a generalized entertainment district, not just Thelma. I mean, Thelma does a special use permit and it's contained in those two blocks and that's perfect because you don't have traffic, you don't have people wandering offsite with alcohol outside of that thing. this would be a generalized area, like say on Main Street running from, you know, say Fourth to Merrill. Well, you've got a lot of- Are the side streets cut off too or just for that or just- Well, no, because you can't barricade those streets. Otherwise it would be a special use permit.

I'm just trying to get the, because that's the first time I'm hearing about it.

Like I said, the places where I've seen this work They have a easily secured, for lack of a better term, geographic area and also have a density of entertainment, restaurant, bar businesses and not so many other businesses that may not want people walking around with open alcohol in front of them.

Thank you both. Yep. Appreciate that. I'm going to go ahead and go to, thank you for the discussion, you guys. And I'm going to go ahead and go to Mr. Zimmerman next.

Thank you, Mr. Heisler. I just want to weigh in. I think this is kind of a mute point. I mean, I never even heard of it until you guys brought it up a while back. There's no citizens asking for it. I mean, I think we're kicking a beehive that we shouldn't be kicking because until the reporter posted something on it, nobody was talking about it. Nothing was real positive. Our police chief is asking us not to do it. I think that's enough right there to say, hey, there's no need for this. I mean, in two full terms on council, the same events show up on our desk every year. It's always the Thelmas on Thursdays and the couple festivals downtown. So I don't think there's anything that really says that we can't handle approving this on a biannual basis when it shows up. So I would say we just recess this for a while or move on from it. So thank you.

Appreciate that, Mr. Zuman. Anyone else want to weigh in? Otherwise, I'll give my thoughts. Go ahead. Go ahead, Ms. Mayweather, go ahead. No problem at all.

I agree. I think a lot of people weren't talking about it beforehand, but I think it sparked, at least from what I've seen on social media, a lot of conversations, and it's definitely pulling some different audiences to Main Street. So I do understand both sides, but I think this also, we are in Wisconsin. I think it also pulls... a lot of good foot traffic as well to Main Street. And then we do have those businesses that are open late that could be pulling in potential customers as well. So I can understand both points, but I also do think it sparked an interest in downtown. So I think that also could be a good point as well.

Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Mayweather. My thoughts would be on this one. When we first discussed this, the intent, at least from my standpoint, was to look at this and say, is there a way we can kind of streamline some of the paperwork that we do, right? Because we approve a lot of special use permits and all that sort of thing. And after some further conversation, both with the city clerk's office and with the police chief, knowing that the paperwork isn't as tedious, as bad, and also knowing about the safety concerns that I echo, and quite frankly, without, like Mr. Biber correctly pointed out, without a clearly defined boundary, I don't think that we need to move forward with this unless and until we have a better frame for this. I would say, you know, unless there is a significant amount of public interest, I think we can table this for now and I think we can come back to it at some time in the future if the public would request that that happen. I'm grateful for the discussion because like Ms. Mayweather pointed out, I think it really does highlight some great things that we have going on downtown. I mean, I think the growth of downtown has been wonderful. We've seen that a lot in the last five, six years, shout out Ms. Krupp. And I think overall we've seen a lot of positive momentum, and I think Adora may contribute positively to it, but also may have some downside, as the Thelma concern pointed out. In having some conversations with some of the folks at Thelma, such a large percentage of their budget is... frankly, those Thursday night concerts, and they're not charging for that, which is an awesome thing for the community, but they're dependent upon that alcohol revenue. So I think we need to make sure that that continues to be able to be sustained by them, because otherwise those concerts go away. And that's not a situation where we have a chamber that's sponsoring the concerts. Thelma's doing that themselves, and I think that's a wonderful thing. As far as for me, I would say this has been a great discussion, and I'm grateful for everybody's input. And I think we've come to the point where we can kind of table this and then revisit if there's public interest. And if there are no further comments... I'M GOING TO MOVE ON AND CLOSE OUT THAT INPUT ITEM SO WE CAN GO TO INPUT ITEM B. AND I BELIEVE THAT IS GOING TO BE THE WINTER PARKING RESTRICTIONS. MR. JOHNSON, ARE YOU DOING THE INTRODUCTION ON THAT, OR IS MS. HOFFMAN DOING THE INTRODUCTION ON THAT?

I'LL PASS IT TO MS. HOFFMAN IF SHE WANTS, BUT I THINK IT'S ME.

OKAY. SOUNDS GOOD, SIR. FOUR IS YOURS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

All right, thank you, President Heisler. Winter parking restrictions. As everybody knows, city of Fond du Lac has parking restrictions from November 15th to March 15th, where he restricts what side of the road you can park on from 8 p.m. to 8 a.m. to allow for basically winter operations. We had a complaint from a resident that was wanting the city to possibly look at changing those parking restrictions. So this item went before advisory parking and traffic back in April. The discussion was can the time to be adjusted because in his particular case, he was getting a ticket like at 9 o'clock when he had friends coming over saying past 9 o'clock coming out, getting a ticket on their windshield, not knowing or understanding the parking restrictions. THE DISCUSSION AT ADVISORY PARKING AND TRAFFIC, IT WAS JUST AN INPUT ITEM ALSO. IT WASN'T ANY PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THIS, TO OUR PARKING RESTRICTIONS, BUT IT WAS WHAT CAN WE DO? WHAT KIND OF OPTIONS COULD THE CITY LOOK AT TO HELP OUT? FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S REALLY A REAL BIG ISSUE WITHIN THE CITY. I THINK MOST PEOPLE HERE KNOW WHAT THE PARKING RESTRICTIONS, THEY KNOW THE TIMES, THEY KNOW THE DATES. IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOR many years now, so well established. But that being said, some of the discussion items was to maybe delay the implementation of parking restrictions from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. Again, that would have different ramifications, because then some people go to bed early and then have to wake up at 10 to move their car to the other side of the road where there is no parking restrictions. So there's always pros and cons in making those changes. One of the items was to compromise, maybe say nine o'clock, but again, it might've helped some people, but it's gonna hinder other people. Lastly, I mean, we kind of looked at maybe a enforcement window where we put it into the code that, you're allowed to be on both sides of the road for maybe a window. But again, those items also have consequences, especially on some of your narrow roads. If you allow parking for even a brief period, you have basically a one-way road. That being said, our engineering is still looking at maybe some options to see if we could amend the parking restrictions to maybe make them better. We don't have a solution yet. I don't know if we will have a solution because to make them better than they are, many cities across Wisconsin have these parking restrictions. Times might be a little different, but the gist of the restrictions are the same. That being said, if there's any suggestions, I'm more than happy to review them and see if there's something we could do. But as of right now, I would say let's keep the parking restrictions as is. But we will still try to find something later and then possibly bring it back before advisory parking and traffic if we come up with some good solutions.

All right, thank you for the introduction, Mr. Johnson. Thank you for the background. And also before we even get started with council discussion, I'd like to thank all the members of advisory parking and traffic for taking a look at this, because I mean, the hardest work gets done in committees a lot of the time, and that's certainly the case in this instance. So we're grateful for all the work they did to bring it to us and the background that they gathered up to this point. With that being said, I'll have anybody that wants to weigh in on this. The queue is open and the floor is yours. I'll go to Ms. Brault first.

thank you um so thank you mr johnson for all the the work that went into this um in my time on council i've definitely had i feel like every winter somebody has some sort of complaint about the winter parking it's not always the same issue sometimes it's that there hasn't been enough enforcement on somebody's street sometimes it's somebody who got a ticket i'm pretty sure i got my first parking ticket from winter parking way back when so i get it you know it's it's It can be frustrating, but at the same time, I've also lived in a community that had no winter parking at all. And we had a narrow driveway, so we'd have to figure out which vehicle had to be in first. So not being able to park at all on streets overnight is also frustrating, but that's what some communities do. And so I did have some back and forth with the gentleman who was interested in possibly pushing things back to 10 p.m. I understand why he suggested that. But at the same time, I do worry about the... later enforcement time. My own husband now has an early morning routine that he has to get up so early for he's going to bed at like nine o'clock at night. So, you know, if people have to go to bed early and then still have to figure out how to move their car at 10 p.m., that's just, we're just moving the struggle onto different people. So at this point, I think I think what we have is probably the best of maybe, maybe there's no good option, but I think what we have is probably the best compromise that I can think of right now. And I know that the police department does a really good job of putting out notices on people's vehicles as street parking before it begins, that if there was vehicles parked on city streets, that they get a notice that says, hey, you know, winter parking's coming up, please make sure you know you need to be on the odd or the even depending on the day. So I think that's a good thing that we do to try to make sure that people are aware of it. And so I think it just becomes then more, you know, if people do have visitors coming over, just make sure, hey, you know, at eight o'clock, we gotta just move the vehicle if it's on the street to try to not get those parking tickets. But also it helps with the flow of traffic too, especially as you said, on those narrow streets, if people, if we would try to do a window where there's no enforcement between like eight and 10, well, if people are parked on both sides and if there's already snow and ice on the roads and stuff, that just could impede traffic and not be a good situation either. So while I appreciate that people reach out about it, and I think, you know, I'd definitely still be interested in thinking about different ideas. At this point, I think what we have is what I'd prefer to stay with, but I appreciate all the work and thought that's gone into it so far. So thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Broad. Mr. Zimmerman, you're next.

Thank you, Mr. Heisler. As elected officials, I think we all know we're not going to please everybody in the city on a regular basis. So we're not going to win this one. If we start changing things, we're never going to make everybody happy. We're just going to take off a different group of people. So once again, don't fix what's not broken. I don't know how many times I'm going to say that up here. So I really believe we need to keep this in place as is. The only... It's well advertised. Like you drive down Main Street, it's on the board. It's on the Facebook page. They put the notices on the car. Like the information's out there. We just need to obey the law that it only happens from November to March. I guess my only question not to put the assistant police chief on the spotlight is what is a ticket for that? Price-wise?

I believe it's $20. $20.

I mean, if we were going to do something, I mean, could we reduce it from 20 to 10? I mean, that's something I would talk about before we change the times or anything like that. But my thought is we leave everything as is right here.

Mr. Zimmerman, not to correct the assistant police chief, but I believe it's 30. And the only reason I can tell you that is because my wife got one.

Thank you. So 30? Yes. Okay. So, I mean, maybe that's what we look at.

Yeah.

You know, is there a way to like give a warning and then, I don't know, then maybe the second one you didn't find? I don't know.

You got an interesting point there, Mr. Zimmerman. I just wanna quick weigh in on that and then I'm gonna get back to you, Ms. Mayweather. Thank you for joining the queue. I wanna also, though, give a shout out to the police department because there has been a couple of times, I mean, I've been in downtown and living in a place without a parking structure for 16 years now. And since my wife and I have been there together for the last six, She's had some winter parking challenges, but on this first couple days, she's gotten a grace period for sure, guaranteed somebody's seen her car and guaranteed nobody did anything about it. So we appreciate the grace that's given, and we know that that happens more often than people give credit, especially on social media. So thank you to the police department for what they do in not only the notices, but also a little bit of a grace period at the beginning of the winter parking ordinances. Thank you guys very much for that.

Thank you for the correction. It's been a while since I wrote a parking ticket.

Thank you.

No problem at all. All right, Ms. Mayweather, it's yours.

Thank you so much. And I completely agree with what everyone said here. I think the biggest concern that I see and that is brought up to council and myself is the start time. I don't think people realize if we think about Fond du Lac as a whole,

Places closed down 9 and 10.

People with families get home about 8 or so, but that's the only ones who is getting home at that time. Agreed, you're not going to please everybody, but I think if we think as a whole and realistically what time the restriction can start, I think that would be a really good place for residents to... Kind of like you said, obey the law. But I think if we think, you know, places don't close tonight, people don't get home after meetings, we have meetings. So I think it's just the thing where if we look at the start time instead of that 8 p.m., can it be that grace period there? But yeah, that's it.

Understood. Thank you for the feedback. Mr. Biber, the floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. Eisler.

As the only Floridian here, I do know it's November 15th to April 15th from 8 to 8. So, no excuses, I guess. A couple of things with it. I guess the main thing is from the city's part, the main whole point of the parking is because of the... snow plows have to go through correct correct at what time is the earlier time better for them or on some or does it matter or they do it early in the morning and yeah i know when it snows that's fine i understand that part they're trying to stay on top of the operation so it right

No, unfortunately the snow doesn't come at 8 PM, it comes- Right, right, I understand.

I'm just- Why are you scheduling that, Chris? What are you thinking? I'm trying. I mean, come on, man.

I guess my point is that you guys gotta get out there early by 8 PM if it's bad before or all night and also that's part of why the earlier time for that 8 PM. And that's the main reason of the whole why we're doing that. And then I do have at the end of my block, I have people that park on both sides of the road. They don't care. They're always there on both sides of the road every day of the year. So I think a lot of it's kind of excuses almost. You know what the rule is. You just got to get out there. But I do understand some things where that 10 p.m. would help a little bit too. But I'm with Brett. It's not... Don't need to fix it, but maybe look at what takes it. And like Keith had said with the grace thing, sometimes that helps. And I hope you never get busted down that you're doing the parking tickets either.

Thank you. Excellent. Well, and you know, and thank you all for a very productive discussion on this. If there's no more, no more input, I just, and I just want to say, you know, we do have an appeals process through that way too. They can, you know, they can challenge if, if needed and they can write and say, here's my rationale as to why this happened, that sort of thing that has worked for some folks that I know as well. So there it's a, it's a, Like everybody said here, there's just no perfect system. But biggest thanks goes to Advisory Parking and Traffic for taking a look at it and continuing to do the work that they do. Because this is probably one of the toughest things they have to deal with, for sure. We appreciate it very much. Thank you for the input, Mr. Johnson. And with that, oh yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry. I don't think, well, I don't know. If it's on winter parking, I can allow it. If it's not on the agenda, I can't. Okay, yes, thank you very much. So with that item being closed, I'm gonna move on to the closing out of all of our input items. And Mr. Zimmerman, it's your time to shine. I'll take a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn.

Push your button. There we go, yeah, now we got it. Okay, we got a motion by Zimmerman and a second by Mullin. This is not debatable, please proceed to vote. And we are adjourned. Thanks everybody, great meeting. Yes, sir.