Comprehensive Plan Committee - Regular Meeting

library territory starting screen. I'm finally here and present. Do you want me to run it? I'm finally here and present. Do you want me to run it? Yeah. All right. Can we just go around and introduce ourselves since I've been out and there's some new faces? Okay. Jones Tracy Keller Susan Paul Katrina and Alan's going to be appointed at the next floor meeting. Oh, okay. Shing a few minutes late. Okay. Um from the last meeting okay you didn't apolog Thank you. We'll just hold that for next. Okay, sounds good to me. Public comment. All right. Um, so then committee updates, additional committee members. Yes. So, Alan is uh Alan Turn Lake um has submitted application and I believe the select board is going to take a week next time they meet.

Um, we had a couple members drop out since the last time you were in person and say take one of those spots and we could probably use another one or two and that would be it again for this size. So Kate Chapman had expressed some interest but we never really heard back from her and I don't know somebody from Water. because we have Mike for but then yeah I know I did I talked to Angie she would Angie Delveio here yeah yeah talk to Angie Delveio or even Chris but I don't think I' jump anyway it's we're not a critical mass issue issue it's just nice to have representation from everywhere in town but working. Are we actively looking? I don't know if we're like actively looking. I'm saying uh for all of you put the word out. If you can think of people, aren't we a long ways into the process at this point? And there will be quite a bit of catching up today. I definitely don't think it will be too hard to catch up, but we are ways into the process. I think the town website states that there's four positions available. Yeah, they have a new system. I don't know if you've seen it where it lists like the number of seats for each committee and if there's a vacancy kind of like a data base driven. Yeah. Do we want to ask them to dial that up too? Um, we could. Yeah. I mean, I think that's okay. I don't think they're like actively advertising it anyway. Yeah, we I've

worked on other projects where someone has had to leave, you know, process takes a while and you know, personal life stuff and another person is brought on like, you know, in the middle of it and that end survey update. Yeah. So, the survey is closed. Um, thank you to Kathy and Judy who were at the Memorial Day picnic. Thank you so much. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah, that helps a lot. I think it like we have to think of it as sort of like passive outreach where it's just sort of like even if someone just sees the poster or that this is a thing, it's lodged in their mind somewhere and um just another, you know, point of contact. But um yeah, surveys closed. We're just going through and looking at the um responses that came in since uh the first time we reviewed them. It's looking pretty similar. Like a lot of the sentiment is fairly consistent. Yeah. Um I think we did get more um like younger respondents, younger families through some like targeted like extra emails sent out to the school and things like that. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Did you see that's really good? Did you notice I was thinking you're the only children who might be in school but not um right. So, um, even though the survey is over, it's not the like last chance to get involved and like voice your opinion. So, if you are out and talking to people and as we we'll go through the, um, public outreach for the summer and then kind of talking about the

public meeting coming up. But, um, people can still certainly like, you know, reach out through the comp plan at Mountor email or, um, through you all if they have like just sometimes people just have thoughts and they want to like get them down in an email and send them out. Um we can always collect information like that as well. Yeah. So what's the plan with the results? You're you're still tallying them, right? What will you do with that? Yeah. Yeah. So the first time we looked at them, do you remember how we had kind of summarized them into some slides? So some of them are easily um put into pie charts um to talk about percentages, but we'll create essentially like a survey summary document that'll be kind of like an appendix, an attachment to the comp plan. Okay. Um as part of that and then when we do have our public meeting um there will be a portion of it in the beginning which is like here's what we heard so far from the community. Um yeah, so there'll be sort of like a summarized informal report essentially of this is what the survey brought to light and then in when we do the public meeting it is a great chance to hear from people too like does this resonate with you? What do you think about this? And I think a lot of people will say um I didn't even know there was a survey but actually yeah that does like I feel that way too or I feel differently. So it's just another great way to get more input. I would also add that it will inform can inform our discussions here. So it'll be interesting and then there's some themes that come out of that like you know 100% of the people decided that they wanted to just like it was 1950s or whatever. You may want to deep dive into that sentiment a little bit more like why is that? What are the things about

the 1950s that everybody loves that we want to think about or you know we manage the sentiment of the 1950s but for the modern day changes there's a lot of things that can come out that so I think not only will it be informative for public but also very summary will be developed said that you know Yeah. Any other questions about that? Um, what are you like with the Zoom toolbar? It always blocks the Yeah. Like after all these years, right? I know it's this one. Still rotating the note takingaking. Yes. Okay. I realize that I didn't That's okay. Ask someone to take notes. Is anybody interested in taking notes? You are candid. I just maybe during our comment section also when I was taking notes it's also being recorded so you can Yeah. Thank you. Um, next thing we're going to talk about is just looking at the summer where there more of these sort of opportunities for um primarily that passive outreach, but maybe some more directive outreach as well. So, this is a um list that we had made together and revisited a few times and then we've been adding to it as well. But um so we have the Memorial Day parade and lunch. Thank you again for being there. Um, did anyone talk to you at all? Did they actually like actively do the one of these? No. Um, I brought down the sign and I I

checked in with I brought it down to the, you know, the great and checked in with Amarie because they're running that whole show. Yeah. And asked her about that. And we've done it so many times at the lunches, the community cafe lunches. We brought it there and I put down flyers on different seats and did that several times. So she's like, "Yeah, you can't get rid of this complicated." But um we decided that we put the sign over by where people were collecting drinks and stuff. So I had it was also a windy day, but I brought down a you know what do you call those things? An easel to lay it on, but that wasn't going to work because it was too windy. Well, we sort of positioned it there right behind where people hold back for ice cream and drinks and so but nobody commented or asked me anything about it. So that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Hot dogs. But even if it just registered like oh that's a thing that's happening. That's good. Um no you've corresponded with Tracy Aman about she still this secret here. Well, as far as I know, she said there was a a board meeting coming up or something that I don't know what day. I can't remember the day she said there. She thought it was a good idea, great idea to be on the summer association meeting. They were going to she's going to get back to me. So, I'm still waiting to hear back and I'll check. And I think that is one where like and I go and represent the committee in that case and perhaps do more of like a formal formal formal presentation. That's a really good one. Y um whereas some of these other ones I think can be more sort of that like informal passive outreach. Um right the card table. I don't do you want to add

to that? No, I I just think the premise here is that there's that we had a brainstorm a list with everybody about these are some opportunities for food and I think that the bigger question is there are a handful or less of those ones that would be really probably best to to use our time for as your consultants and then there are many other opportunities where it would be best to use your time and I think the big thing right where you going to be some of these champions and really would be best to use up China. So I mean as Suzanne said I think that some residents association seem to be better for up and again it's not a question of who's better to go with what but more of a where would you like to spend time resources because where did I think the same is true of the seal Harvard B and when is that we don't know but I mean one of the other I think the thousands more like a closed meeting. Yeah. They would have an agenda. Okay. And I think the message that we want to get around at any of those events or locations like farm is come to this event, this public meeting, this gathering etc. Right? means not about the survey any longer or but there's where you can find out more about it, right? Yeah, I think it's a lot of it right now is that we haven't set a formal date for like the early fall meeting that we're going to have. It's the public meeting which will do much as work but in this one can go here to find more information more but and as we get further through this

process of like talking about these different um chapters and having drafts that we feel are you know complete drafts we will begin to put them up on the website, the project website, and so people can start to see the materials as well. Yeah. So, some of it might be like if you go to the state for commerce something just making sure that the poster is there, flyers are there, something you guys are, oh doing that should be checking. Well, we probably should have spent a lot of time doing that until we actually have something for them to check out. So yeah, we don't have that stuff up online yet going I still think that there's stuff that's constantly going to be kind of uploaded there, right? Yeah. Like happening and what we noticed with the Memorial Day one was there's an opportunity that everybody thought, hey, this is an interesting opportunity to get the word up Germans and and it was like two days before that I think we reached out and said who can go to this, right? But those are the you just have we just have to maybe prepare to to be present somehow those events. That's all. So if there's do we want to because the next one's July but I know that'll be our next meeting but do we want to take this and because we can access this on the drive correct? This Yeah. Yep. This is shared with everybody in your call. maybe have people will just reach out to you directly to say, "Hey, I'm interested in doing, you know, the SSville library or something like that." Great. Yeah. Yeah. Versus using like this time here to to select that because we have pretty Yeah. meeting. For sure. Um should we also offer to members of the committee? you guys um do a brief interview with

like the Islander and with Carrie Jones of the Bah story and then you're writing a piece about I think the Barber story definitely wrote about it as starting but at some point absolutely I think that'll be in around the time of that public after that they might be there. Yep. Um, good job. Uh, okay. Great. I reached out to the Chamber of Commerce. Um, I I see you on there, Heather. Yeah. Great. And then, um, we talked about hanging a fire at Beach Chill Farm. I don't know about school events over the summer. No, um, and then we're going to reach out to Rainey as well. Um, I have talked to Amy Weisard at the library about doing sort of like an open house also around um the summertime. So, we'll take the lead on that and um follow up there. That could be just like a great informal opportunity to learn more as well. Any other thoughts? Well, just I think we need to make some we need to have some information to share in any of those events and I don't feel like we're at that point yet. Yeah. There was a charge to get people to do the survey. Now we need to figure out are we making new goals? Are we changing ordinances to meet those goals? I mean, what are we doing? Because that's when people are going to get engaged in things. So, um I noticed that you brought like an older version of the slides that had the timeline on it. Yeah. So, I mean part of like where we are, we are going to get to that point for sure, but what we're going to initially share with people is like these key findings and then what the survey says. Yeah. So, we're in this process of like trying to get through

these inventory chapters to have a complete set of key findings to share. You mean when we do a public meeting? Yes. Um, that's fine for any public, but I think we're doing ourselves a disservice and the town a disservice if we don't at some point as a committee decide what we want to suggest. Doesn't mean people have to accept it, but we know what the outcome is going to be. Everybody's going to say, "I don't want anything to change and I want to deal with affordability." So you you've got this happen both ways. Sorry. Right. So if we're serious about because afford that was the same thing as last time and nothing really much has happened like on afford really on affordability. We haven't really bent any curves on that. So shouldn't we be trying to come up with specific ideas? Some of them quite challenging but perhaps important and about what we could do like what what what are the what could we do about the zoning or witness? What can we do about fees? What could we do about this? What can we do about prioritizing favoring year round businesses as you know what what could we do to help actually bend this curve? Now, people may not like any of those things, but if we're not just going to go through this and come up with, oh, we need to do something about affordability and but I don't want anything to change, then I don't know what what are we doing? What what So, I want to try to stimulate at some point thinking about what we could possibly do. Yeah. And I

mean we and that it seems to me like we could be in a position if we dig into this enough and we ask those questions. Well, what could we do about land use districts or what could we do about sizes of property lots or you know the density issues put those on the table and see if anybody actually what people are willing to entertain do. Um I don't know where the process would be. Yeah. Typically, I mean, so there's a lot of different ways to do it. So, it's great to be creative about it. Typically, like we come to the community first with like here's what we heard in the survey. Here's what sort of the data is telling us. Where's that planned with you? What are you concerned about? Traditionally, it's sort of like a, you know, it's not just a checking a box public meeting, but it's sort of like this is a checkpoint, a check-in, and then um the committee then takes all of that and all this material and then starts to develop those ideas. Like, here are the action items. Here are the goals and the actions that we want to take. And then you go back to the public and say, here are these ideas that we've come up with. And that's where people start to the public start to really pay attention, right? because they're like, "Wait a second." Yes. Um and so this is like in the typical process, we're just like not quite there yet because the committee hasn't done work yet. Sure. Um but I would say that as frustrating as it's going to be, like you have to set the foundation first. Yeah. And that the vision value stuff that we've talked about in our timeline, which is the next public meeting that we're going to have is that's the question. That's where we start the push and in order to as representatives of the town we're going to have a meeting that basically says here's where we are. I know some of you already have a good sense of this, but the data is just let's just use housing as an example of where housing is, but this is what the numbers are actually saying

about housing is tell you also from experience that it doesn't hurt to continue to reiterate this is what the numbers say about and so we're actually building that foundation and common understanding and then at the same meeting we're going to say all right our next charge is to develop um some understanding of what the community wants for their future vision. And then once we understand that as a group, it's your job to do exactly what you're saying, which is to kind of say, okay, if you said you wanted to do this, this, and this, then these are the things that we need to do. Now, let's talk about it. So, we have to like move to that point. Sure. Sure. And so when we're talking about outreach now, it is still, as frustrating as it is, it's this it's the tenacity to be able to go out there and just say, "Hey, we're working on the comp plan and to not jump ahead to the next step in comp plan." And that we still need people to know that we're actually doing a comp plan. That's the point for the whole time like today until the end. We can't stop telling them that we're doing a compliment, right? So when we say passively out there telling people what we're doing, it is literally very passive at this point, right? And then when we get sort of into the meat of what you're working on, that's when people are going to be like, "Hey, did I just hear them say we're going to do this, this, and this? Holy crap, I go to that meeting." Right? But even up until that point, we need to reach out to the community and get as many voices as we can to participate in that sort of vision values discussion because that vision values discussion is what needs to do that. Like if we all think that the vision values is one thing but we're having a public meeting and they're saying something totally different then there's a lot of disconnects happen. We need to figure out what that is. It's also meant to be like the overarching kind of guiding principles for the goals and action ideas that you do come up with. Yeah. So I as a person who wants

to kind of dive into the solutions first completely get what you're saying but I think we're like always get into the situation to where like I'm just holding you back just for a little bit longer and then we're going to go for it. I totally respect that. But what I really do like is your statement that when we have that public meeting, it ought to be information dense. Yeah. Not just and not ought not to be just feeling. No, no, no. There'll be some of that, but it'll be very structured. In fact, at that SR meeting, got to have all that data right there. That's what you need to show that they're not listening to other people. And what Suzanne's talking about with like even with the library is like more like at this space is it will be more like an openhouse thing where we could either be there to answer questions or just we develop like infographic posters and just leave them enough room for people to see somewhere in the library for people to see but it's more about like just kind of getting the word out and that's yes at SRRA meetings or or the S harbor meeting or whatever like it's the beginning part of this phase is going to be very much like did you know that the 10 X Y and Z because you know that you see and it's going to be a lot of that and then then it's going to be a lot of here's the process and then it's going to be a lot of let's talk let's try to understand what you know they're thinking because we need to kind of get get the common themes of of some feedback from them but we haven't done we haven't got to the point of design questions facilitating but yes that's happening If when we're putting out that information, we could also include here's what the comp plan from 2009 had as goals. Here's what we achieved. We'll go get that before we done. Well, I understand we didn't do much. That's so I think we have to be aware of that

and and take responsibility. Let's break it into different sections of the development of the plan, but we've already that's exactly that's 100% what we're going to do because there's no sense to reinvent the wheel on things that are still good. Yeah. And so we a lot of times what we do is I mean it's it's a slog for you guys, but we have a document that's basically like here's what the old plan said. Is that still good? We have to go through it. Yeah. And then we're going to add new stuff to it. One time we refine this to that. that was talking about Gail when she said like people respond if there's a solution presented. I think they they might even get more engagement at a meeting if options are presented to people and then they're interested in going to because I said that we should just build a hierarchis you know they will show up let me just but let me pose this question because the question the first question is going to be solutions to left like we don't all agree or we don't know if we all agree on what we need solutions for. So the first part of the conversation is trying to find some understanding of what it is that like solutions to what? Yeah. But will they come in the door if they're going to get you know but at that point we can you know I I still think you need to go through but I mean we'll do whatever you guys however you guys want. And I still think you need to just pause. I mean, not pause. It's really just like taking it's a very methodical part and we're actually like expediting some of this data stuff because like we don't people spend too much time but we want to like get through and then just say this is what's happening here. We didn't start to identify the problem you know here are the issues that came from the data that we need to actually find solutions for. That's the phase one right now. So you in order to find action payments, we need to understand

what activities as we go through all the material. I can't help myself. I read it and I check on things. I'm like, I have other ideas. How do you want us to deal with that? Just Yeah. If it's like a typo or if it's like a um something like that, just send it to us directly. Okay. That's easy. I have. Great. Um if it's something really fundamental where like we this we need to talk about this as a committee then this is the time where we talk about it. The idea is to um you know we don't want to spend multi since we meet monthly and there's like 10 required subject areas by the state. We can't spend multiple committee meetings like on a certain topic unless we have done it in the past with community like about housing or something that's just so like fundamental to you know um so send us things like that but if there's something that we need to hash out about either like why is this data set not included or um what is you know um can we talk about this differently or if it's you know something really critical to how it's fundamentally presented and let's absolutely talk about it. Yeah. Also, we've built sort of as we've been evolving through these conversations, I think, you know, Suzanne and I sometimes like, well, let's put a pin in that sentiment, but there that's why we have the flip chart too because as we're writing things down, certainly ideas are popping up as part of the conversation. We don't need to lose those ideas now. we can record them and then get back to them as we're coming back to the topics. So what we're doing right now is in even in this group is building understanding of where we are as a community and we're going to get back to each of these topic areas and talk about now we now that we understand where we are as a community. Here's some of the things that we want now this is all we need to start to do about it. These are the questions that

we want to pose to the community about solutions for for these particular things. So we don't I don't think I don't want to lose I don't want to I'm not so rigid that you just like we can't talk about any of your concerns but I think we need to like move through a common understanding of the data. So there's got to be a little bit of that as well. You know I'm comfortable with your approach. I just um I also think that when we get the gestalt from the community about where we're at it does have to line up with the data. And if it doesn't line up with the data, then it's up to the responsibility of this committee to say, "Hey, I know you don't really want to do anything about lot size, but or whatever, you know, whatever the issue is." I think that's where we have a leadership responsibility to try to people make those things work together. And I think that will be an interesting conversation. If the data is saying the community is trending one way and the community is saying, "Well, we don't really care." Like that would be a great conversation. Correct. I know. I know I've asked this you before, but what's what makes the town answerable to the comp plan? Are there any teeth in it if they don't fulfill? Anybody get their pay docs? No. Like why would they why would they follow anything that the community or this committee can accomplish? because the town ultimately has to vote on town specific proposals. So if we if the town says we want to do something about building more affordable housing, but yet the when the rubber meets the road, if the town doesn't vote for it at town meeting to change the only do that, then we're kind of stuck. But I do think that what we should be focusing on as part of this is an accountability section. It's like how are we going to annually build in a review of where we're at and what

we need to do next? I think that's an important will be an important piece. The major component of it where there is like teeth is the future land use map. So the future land use map when we get to that part. So right now we're just in the inventory sections talking about existing land use. But when we get to the goal setting and action setting side, we'll create a future land use map which is sort of a conceptual way of talking about how land use does or does not change in the town and that informs zoning changes. Does that make sense? Right. Yeah. But if they don't do anything, nothing happens. Yeah. So I mean to boil it right down to the basics that there's only very few things that I mean the comprehensive plan is a fundamentally a land use guidance document and an investment document for the community as it relates to land use fundamentally. So theoretically it should guide you know decisions about um you know where investments are made in sidewalks and sewer, water, infrastructure, minimum lot sizes, land use ordinances, all those things are are foundation. The comp plan is the foundation for all those things and it's a statemandated document. It seems like the towns have to do something to take it to court. Hey this Yep. If you were to like say we do well if the decide not do something that's the voters the will of the votes but if the plan is approved and nothing happens that's the question right from so the difference would be if if somebody could come in and say I was just talking about this not too long ago but they want to do this then different area of town that's like currently in their future land use plan designated as like pulp open space or or whatever it is and they want to do more development. And the question would be like if you

decided to change your zoning to make it like a you know 5,000 square foot min area but the future land use plan says this should be open space or recreational area then somebody who does like come in town say this isn't for that provision of for so there are for other towns not necessarily well deserved but I think ignore for um opportunities are tied to having a good comp plan that's consistent with the growth management act and other you know regulatory things you have to deal with but it's a policy document too so it's really up to the policy makers town to follow through with plan and also I don't know actually about this committee but in some towns the complaint committee is a standing committee so you like you serve on the committee for the you know this project you write this plan over the course several years then you imple you are essentially like an implementation committee as well sometimes create different committees to implement it because the comprehensive planning committee is like fried that so um but when when you do write those goals and actions you're assigning them you're assigning responsibility suggested responsibility and the time frame and so um you know if things work as they're supposed to then um the people that they're assigned to the the committee is sort of checking in on the status of those items. And in reality, committees come up with a ton of policies, right? Too too many that are you want to get them in there for, you know, get it down on paper. They're great ideas, but you really have to prioritize and then you have to like hawkishly watch the ones that are the priority and be realistic. Yeah, we're going to want to spend a lot of time, we call it the implementation section, but it's really the the

accountability part, but like here's where the top priorities and then here's how the how it's going to get implemented over a period of time. And our challenge is going to be to say, well, out of all these great ideas that we're going to have is in the comp plan, we need to pick some that we know we can achieve in period of time, you know, short-term goal or medium-term and other everything else is just, you know, for keeping in books and then if you have a good implementation committee you could say yeah we do these now we're going to work on these other things but it's also a good possibility of rolling this into the land use advisory committee beefing that up and actually making a greatation all of the various committees you know the harder committee has stuff on marine and the economic development committee has done that so absolutely it all ties together it's aspirational but it also should like we're not going to suggest things that the the Harvard community is, you know, kind of working on them like totally out of the blue. Like we our job is to kind of understand our job is to understand all these things that are going on and put them in the appropriate context, right? So it supports some ongoing initiatives or also challenges some initiatives that really should be challenged or things that actually should be happening that aren't happening, whatever. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Um I just want to do a time check. It's 5:40. Um this is all really important conversations. I don't necessarily want to short change it because because we only meet monthly like you know it takes time to kind of wrap our heads back around the process um and where we are. But um do people feel like comfortable moving into the um these sections? Can I Well, absolutely. Sorry. And come to the table if you would like. Okay. back there. I can see better. So, it's okay. I'm sorry. Turn around, but I

guess seeing this whole I appreciate this very much. Um, and uh I have this like worry, you know, like that something gets there's a thorough process, good thinking, good data, and then it's kind of like sat on the shelf. And I think everybody shares concerns and people in the public. I think to me all of this informs thinking about then like we're following these processes for a reason and we're committed to them. Um, but then there may be like we're asking questions that other people probably have similar questions or reservations or having have no reason to, you know, give it any energy towards even asking those questions because it's not relevant. It doesn't feel relevant. So even in just that like recurring promotion of the comp plan happening, it feels like there's maybe like it's ones I don't I'm not looking at the materials that we've already been but there's something that needs to be and also in the different beings that we offer these moments like connections. there's something that needs to be saying like this is relevant to you how this is where you engage in this moment whether or not you're being asked to engage now and this is how this plays out like this is like there's something really like just direct like this is how it has impact but I feel like we should figure out how to be like really transparent if we want that engagement and if we want the long-term buy in the outcome you think that message changes depending on what the outreach is that we're trying to get uh in your like what what's I'm thinking uh the phase that we're in right now if we just call it like just the awareness phase a hook and then if we're doing a a public meeting that's asking for feedback on a certain thing there maybe another hook and then if we're moving into let's talk policy in action then there's another yeah I think it's just like really trying to imagine like a lot of people don't care but why should Y yeah. And I

think that's what we're trying to do here in Y. Thanks. Um Okay. Okay. Do you want to be a few notes here? So, um we're going to talk about the marine resources section, transportation, and um existing land use. Oh, before we quick jump into that, we didn't set a date for the public meeting. Is that necessary to do now? I don't think so, but I Yeah, please. Um I think that will be like uh Oh, those are just Okay. Yeah, I mean um I'm thinking like yeah, August into September. Oh, you're welcome. Okay. Um so I might just follow what's on the agenda until it's kind of dependent on how much material we get through these meetings. Um, so that's sort of our like aspirational Okay. Yep. Um, great. Um, so we're going to talk about the marine resources section and um I know Kathy you said you had gone through the inventory chapter self or the um the slides. No, that's what I'm I'm a little confused about. the formatting between something like this and this. Yeah. So, how are we using these differently? These are the factors that will be in the plan in the

inventory section. This is what the appendex the data appendices and the key findings are sort of the way that people these are the key findings. They're just repeated in this format for the purpose of this meeting that make it so this is just for us. It's just for us right now and then we're done with all of our chapters. We can create sort of a booklet of slides of the key findings from each book area. Does that make sense? Okay. Sort of like So right now they're for internal use of this committee. Yeah. But someday they may be put together at public events or something else. Yeah. Yeah. And again they they come straight from the inventory chapters. Um, so the the two main pieces of a comp plan are these like data analysis appendices and then the what are you going to do about it part which is the goals and the policies. And right now we're in that data part um just look so nice and finished. I thought how do these which are horizontal format fit with these which are vertical format. Yeah. So, we made these as a way I bet they can do that. And it's just a repeated intro because it's just it's a synthesis. Right. So, we want you to see the chapter that ultimately is the full chapter and then the highlights. Um, Right. Exactly. So that we can talk through these ideas more efficiently as a committee. Now, in an ideal world, everybody's bat all the time, right? and there everybody's at home reading these chapters with their red or blue pen and thinking about it very critically. Um we don't want to spend our committee time going word for word through these sometimes 20page dense inventory documents. So this was our way of trying to like touch on the highlights um and but we do rely on you to skim these and see if you think anything is missing or you know does that make sense about the difference? Yeah. Okay. And

and all of the rapids in where do you get all of these and how much control do you have over changing these things? Yeah. So they come from a huge variety of sources. So these are coming from uh the department this one on this page for example. But you you just picked it up from there and included it here would include it in the thing. Yep. Yeah. I mean, if you mean like changing the heading or changing the I'm thinking one of my questions on here was this is hard to tell from this that visual there what it is we're looking at. Is it this lighter blue area? Yeah, that is the shell visual. Yep. The shelf. It's just the colors that are so we we in some cases like this is getting into the weeds on mapmaking but in some cases the state makes these data layers available and then we can edit the symbology and in other cases we can't. So, it kind of depends. And in a dream world, this is an update, right? So, we're not like starting from scratch or doing, but in a dream world, we would have like um you know, all of the um everything looking and we'll make it as consistent as possible, but sometimes with the beginning with habitat data, um we need to use what the state provides. Like that's what they're looking for. Um, and we can certainly go back to them and ask if there's ways to like make it more readable if you think it doesn't translate well. And I think that's good feedback. Yeah. And I just think in a lot of these instances, it's just the colors choices that people have made. It's like, you know what, these colors are way too close together. And I can't tell our town from this county maps aren't great, but sometimes it's less. It's better different color. No, it's sometimes kind of think like Suzanne was saying we could go in and said we're going to create a series of maps that are just going to be like here's our you know our

map reserve map that's kind of blah blah blah. depends on what data is actually available for us to do that. But it's also like a lot of work. And so the priority has to be what is your priority and as a camp and we sometimes make a judgment call to say this is important but it's not that so we're going to just use this map and it's not a great map and it's people that made the map that don't have a reference background and what I can say from Suzanne is like a really good map maker. So we often have these conversations with why listing software but for for there's there is a costbenefit analysis that has to be done at some point we make these excited to make the other thing I would add to this is that um what you're seeing right now isn't necessarily like the final product of the the inventory sections. So we still have the opportunity to go back in and polish things up. But what's really really important for now isn't that polishing it up. It's making sure that we have the data that is there. Are we interpreting the data the way that you're interpreting the data? And are there other things that kind of jump out at you that we might have missed as we're looking through the data? Because that's the foundation that we're trying to build. And just so I want to just make sure everybody's kind of clear because you could come back at the next meeting and just go through here's a here's the table of contents for a comprehensive plan. What are your complaints going to look like from table of contents if that's helpful? And that document that that will kind of like summary slides is like a separate part. The comp plan is one thing. This is just a different tool that helps consolidate findings without having to go back through all

the stuff, all the words. So, what is most what is most important? That's what's in there. Does that make any sense? Yep. All right. Great. Um so uh why why don't we start out by going through the sort of key finding points and then if there are like specific um detailed like questions or comments that you found Kathy you wanted to raise or anyone else um can jump into those but um the first one is marine resources play a critical role in mountains economy um no surprise there and um just the idea that northeast marina seal Harbor Dock provide critical infrastructure for both commercial and recreational marine activities. Barton sanding to that. Thank you. Is there going to be anywhere we can talk about is there any way to aggregate the whole economy of the town? So you look at $650,000 that sounds like a big deal but is that 10% of the project is I mean so sure that creates a different sense of significance. Um so talking about the next one commercial fishing and harvesting in the towns have fluctuated over the last decade. Um we express that in terms of overall economy getting trend lines maybe [Music] um anything else jump out there in terms of

um sounds like elers do really well And um there's nobody we thought was really interesting too is that like shellfishing isn't really a big deal anymore because there's not a lot of places to go shell fishing but yet I mean it's a concern. We met with the shelters committee as part of another project, but um they said that like they're people just aren't really pulling licenses as much as they used to. There's less interest from like the young community is that also for lobster. I mean, wasn't as recent. I think it's interesting to think about where how like just call it commercial fishing as a big picture really fits into the overall marine economy and it's in some towns it's a lot bigger than others but I would say in map desert it's not as big as other parts of the marine economy the question or the sentence harvesting ended in 2017 likely due to harvesting restrictions do do we actually not know that it was due to harvest restrictions or is it likely due to that it's long that question that sentence likely also what the map shows is that the main areas that would be for claiming are closed because of um pollution basically and that's part of what that we can invalidate so I have to go back I think on the next slide there so we can I guess we wouldn't know because the decision the harvester made was it's too small of an area or it's too or it's

closed. It's closed. Also, for some of these, they're moving further north, too. So, that making a living at this is is not sustainable. Correct. Right. Therefore, then it's not being passed down to the younger generations. Right. And then if you don't have the area on short of land products I mean you might live in Mont but you might be landing your catch elsewhere. Yeah. and their thoughts on that one or questions. I was just going to say to build on that point as I was just writing down because we don't want to forget but the question is that we're seeing like fluctuations in the commercial fishing economy and it is a part of the marine economy. question for the comp plan as we get into this is what does that mean for the marine economy and do we what do we do? How do we start to think about our changing marine economy? Not just does it mean we you know double down on or does it mean we think about new ways to support a changing commercial fishing industry? ask questions, not just those are the kinds of things I always run like you know how important is it to maintain existing access to the shore you know facilities that you might have supported or access that might have supported shell fishing but don't today but we don't know what's going to happen

in the future need to continue to provide better dock space because we're bringing in a different catch but you know it's just things like that absurd where different kinds of boats. I mean, I'm I'm thinking at the marine resources, it's not just about fishing, but it's also about recreational looting, right? And what businesses do we have? Has that changed over time? Are we seeing more cruise ships, you know, small tours around a whole business that has grown up, right? Y um andor on the retail side, you know, I think that for instance, FT Browns has changed what their offering is going to change further because people aren't necessarily buying things there. So where do they get where do people who need rope or anchors or something else? Where are they getting all of those things? And how has the economy changed for that side of the business? And don't we have Hley right here? Um you know, do what are they doing there? I'm just thinking that there might be more to marine resources beyond fish. What's the economic impact and how is that changed? Marine resources is a big thing. It's not only just like a habitat, but it's also then there's the marine economy which classifies all the things that you were talking about. kind of uh thinking back to the 2009 comprehensive plan. I read that a while ago. Um seemed like there was a section on history and some of the challenges the town had been through before. We logged the whole thing. We caught fish the whole thing until it was extinct. We had dairy cows. Um, some of that history would be good

to emphasize in sections like this where like previously cod fishing was exploited and we had to change marine activities just to remind people that things are going to change again. So we could say we should put in more claming infrastructure. You know, maybe that's a haircut forward shellfish. We could find a way to use green curs. That'd be great. Well, they people are working on it. Okay, great. That's all really great. The next part is about scenic views access point. thinking about marine resources in that section. We spent a little bit of time last meeting working on a map that um just to idea that you know these scenic resources and access point links to the water do play a role in the economy. I just like to change that one word tourism to activity. Okay? Because it's not just for tourists. Everybody loves the views when you drive around, you know. So recreational activity in the town might include people that live here rather than just y. Okay. And I think Bartlett is Bartlett Landing, not Bartlett Island. And I wondered about completing

Gilpatrick Cove, which is beautiful. If you do drive on Southshore Road, it would be beautiful. Okay. And we left off. Okay. Should we include that? Yeah. Um on the next page it talks about marine water quality is generally good. Um the main marine resources monitoring of 18 water quality sites amates low contamination levels. Um typo there most sense um levels that again not to pause here but if you have a typo just send us the type um go ahead. Yeah you I want to help what format because I can like type changes on my ver version of this but I don't I don't dare yeah I mean if there's like do you want me to just text it put it in an email? Yeah, that's fine. Three things that remind you can be like on page the second page. I will do that because I need Yeah. Um and waste wastewater management varies across the town with some areas relying on private septic and other supported by public infrastructure. So any uh questions, issues, concerns about this? Where's she going to go?

And so isn't it over um down pretty marshm like Jack led better old house down there seal cove but then if you were to go in towards the park area you go the town of Mount Dert I think part of it is in the town of Mount Desert to you can circle back on the roads. So I think part of it is thank you. Yeah. Um and then the last point, climate change poses risk for plant marine resources. So um you know the town has been working with climate to thrive. Uh I'm not closely familiar with if it's been sort of like a an analysis on marine resources per se. Um but I think it's important to include this piece here. Um, this is one of these areas where like we could go into a lot of analysis in the comprehensive plan, but it's it could also be recommended in the goals and strate action item strategies section to say like this is something that the town should study further through its own like standalone process. Does that make sense? Yeah. Well, it doesn't sound like we actually know what's going on with the town. I mean, it's not reflected in this text. What's actually going on? Yeah, I think so. sort of like a um we may want to tighten this statement up a little bit more but it's really to target you know this is a pretty you know there the facilities that support marine resources are one thing that could be threatened and then it's habitat and which in by extension is is partially economics based so there's there's a few things we can to tell that I think

I think one of the things about the areas that's closed, my understanding is that SS Harbor actually turns over. It's water very slowly. Yep. And that's one of the reasons why people need to be vigilant about Yeah. I mean I think the conclusion that generally water quality in in in is pretty good but there are areas where um you know sh in particular exposed due to pollution some in the old days it was because there was a lot of discharges and there's more and more not as many of that as a much of that as a problem and then I think part of what you're saying Gail is like just sometimes by nature of there's there's a covert there or run and it just doesn't flush out enough that those one of the question I have was about the the the assessment just saying the water quality around is pretty good. Um how is do we do we need to take responsibility for knowing how that's actually being measured? Um do we need to make sure that that's actually accurate? You can say um all my all kinds of my health lab values are are normal but what's normal today what would have been considered abnormal 25 years ago or 30 years ago. So I don't know what metrics they're using. Sure. Part of our job is to collect the publicly available data and sort of report it out. So okay um we have another staff member who wrote this chapter and like she would have gone and looked at a um in the part where it says 18 water quality sites indicate low contamination level. So it's it is a generalization. Okay. Um coming from the state but initial reaction to what you're saying would be a it really depends on what you guys want to do is an action language. you really don't trust the the

data or maybe in other situations I would say well if the data is starting to come back to say well you have a real large quality problem I may want to put some more action toward that okay we really need to understand because these these indicators from a high level are saying this is something we need to pay attention to but right now it's you know it's not that I don't trust it it's just like if he had to actually articulate it to anyone who asked you're only like well I just it's good going any deeper than this state tells us it's good we can probably get some more data into the not more not the key finding but the not looking yeah we got one problem yes this is talking about marine water I mean I guess all water is marine water but it's salt water that you're talking about and not lake water. Does that need to be identified? Because this graphic has big pictures of ponds on it. Yeah, that was in the natural resources section that we talked about last week. Okay. Freshwater, but I just freshwater. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Great. So, that is in a different section. All right. Thank you. Did arsenic come up in that other section? Um, no. And so that would have been like a you mean like from hot water and stuff. I was back checked and get the thoughts all the way be interested in first checkpoint. Yeah, I'll have to go back and look. Typically, I don't think we would have gone back and like tried to find out what are all the individual water tests results as much as uh like the park monitors water quality and all the lakes or people, you know, for

freshwater concern with um overt you know crossings and those kinds of things. Um I think question development rad um okay let's move into transportation and again this is not the last time to talk about as things continue to hurt you definitely Um so the transportation section um generally looks at things like you know what's sort of the transportation network composed of um what kinds of uh transit opportunities are there? Are there any like um high crash locations? A lot of the data just come straight from the state department of transportation. um where if there is any you know where is there pedestrian infrastructure or cycling infrastructure things like that um so findings we have here the town is primarily a vehicle oriented transportation network um excuse me there are some areas that face traffic congestion um pedestrian infrastructure is strong in the village areas, but biking infrastructure is limited. So, we like we had a conversation about, you know, there's you can bike on any of the roads, right? But there aren't necessarily designated what did she say? Um, but there aren't necessarily designated bike lanes or bike infrastructure the way you might see in

other areas. Um do you have thoughts on that or Yeah. Yeah. The role that the state plays in the major roads I mean group 102 and three or state roads. Yeah. And we have to work carefully and for years to make changes. So that's that's an issue because I know there was a crowd of people avid bicyclists who wanted to have anybody drive have a bike would remand it. I don't think anything ever happened. Okay. Are they getting ready to redo that road? Isn't that coming up? Peabody. Isn't there something because there's some concern about it falling something? I remember meeting a meeting recently. There have been rock, right? But I think that's come. It's like from it's almost from past is still they've got sections of it. But I thought I was at a meeting this year. Well, it takes years. I mean a meeting about some stuff bridge at least two years for what they're just starting take a long time that's an impact on those if we want to improve that we have to work with states so that's something just to acknowledge somehow you think if anyone commutes on a bicycle um yeah our tenant Steve Anastasia works at for the park he rides to bike he bikes up to the headquarters all the time Almond Rose. He can go into the park when it's open. Yeah. And there was another woman by himself that traveled to the road to Nobody did anything. Nobody liked them there. Can we go back to the other bullet for just one second? Are there other first of all so everybody agree that that primarily uh everything is vehicle oriented transportation network and I

think um we're going to get to this in the other in the following bullet so we're going to jump ahead I was thinking about congestion areas we're going to identify like obviously the S's light is like a key pinch point pinch points what says well it says those been housing distance in my house. When you say that needs um benefit for improved traffic management and safety enhancements, why'd you have them all? Yeah. Because why should we I mean first of all I think that you know having built that turn lane a few years ago that's made a huge difference. Oh existed. Oh my god, too. Every day to make the home every day. Enormous. Horrible. That was a big move for the island. The wife going north to taking the red on harbor sound. Well, right now this either, but that light was not always a functioning light. Oh, summer. That's right. I mean, it used to not turn off. Yeah. In the winter. Yeah. So, you can go off to that corner from from here over in Stonesville and you can go if there's no traffic and now you have to sit there if you're a law abiding person. Yeah. Sometimes Yeah. both ways and I go I'm like a rent just and that won't happen. Yeah. That's so interesting. Yeah. I remember my first year in B Harbor when the light at Mount Dessert and Eden started flashing. I was like that has been broken for so long. Yeah. Okay. So going back to N's question though, do you agree that the town is primarily a vehicle oriented transportation? Sadly, yes. I guess but then going back to Gail's question stick to maybe because I don't think making roads bigger is ever I'm not Robert Moses kind of person. I don't think making them bigger is ever a

solution. Anyhow, we can definitely rephrase that. Yes. Well, things that um I briefly was involved with the community school and like they have students who live right along. Yes. Um in some soul there that walk to school. So they're two. Yeah. What's that? How many do they actually have that family? Two. There's one family like right now next. They have two kids. So two kids. Yeah. Yeah. But um I think it's a good reminder right that there are people when the infrastructure is there they have that desire to walk to school naturally um and they were really involved in uh that bridge reconstruction the games um so I don't know those plans in great detail but I'm imagining that there will be a sidewalk like a really clear wider structed sidewalk across like up to the community school. Yeah, I think so. So, that could be a safety enhancement example. Yeah. Any other thoughts on that intersection aside from Sounds like the Turnway is a good development. Yeah. I don't see how you just you're just going to keep taking more more landing. Um it is a lot better. It's like a a lot better. Yes, especially summer and it could never be a traffic circle or probably not. We do traffic. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely not. I mean, ideally the the the southbound lane with maybe on the other side of the intersection maybe two lanes. That's a little narrow, but they sort of did the best they could with what they had. It works. Yeah.

We can so the last couple of lines if you could take out so it just I mean if it's a real finding it would just be this experiences congestion during peak travel period right during peak anytime school can you just get rid of that you just say um discussion area ended there because congestion times are expanding. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Fewer words. Great. Well, again because I do think how how long have people sat at that traffic light even in the song. What about the now when the RV tipped over? Well, that was off island, I think. But but I think we're all smart enough when that happens. building so something alter we could propose. So I would say that the finding is that it does just land and the addition any if you look at lizards from transportation this is the it is the there may be more that's the question it really is the key intersection in town and it does experience congestion period I'm serious that I don't know what you mean by that because I I I that's right next to my apps and that's always where what I have to go through. I don't recall since that road got changed. I do not recall having to sit in traffic unless they're working on the roads and they're stopping people. I don't recall having to sit in traffic then. I really don't. I don't recall ever having to wait more more than lights stop and then you go. I don't recall ever having to not get through the light of the when it changes

and then have to wait. I just don't recall it. sometimes in the summer at you know 3:30 400 pm like if you're going up 198 where you're headed um you can really sit there because you have contractors leaving the island you have um Jackson Lab you have you know people visiting that have left the oh somewhere that direction I've been stuck at Mount Campground a few time even I agree with you but but it's not as bad as it used to be. Now, what I'm suggesting is that it we're not So, this is a statement of fact. Okay. Is it a fact or not? You know what happen? We're supposed to be having this conversation. So, but I think the question of what to do about it might just be it's like we have to recognize that and then maybe getting back to Suzanne's point as an action item would be ensure that work with MDOT to make sidewalks. you will maintain the sidewalks that aren't turning a little bit because there is more because I think because of that bridge you can't do a turning lane coming off from correct that road you can't do a turning lane that's long enough to keep yeah to get out y I would and I would also say like some bill it's going to be interesting conversation particularly that part you think about know when we get to the future use discussion because currently That is one of the areas of town that is zone for pretty dense development. So what's going to happen there, right? Doesn't mean it has to be, but it is. You put Yeah, you put a water supply in. Let's do it. Um this point is transit services such as the island explorer and down transportation plan found that

they're limited year round but this is you know part of part of the asks you to reflect on what types of transit options do exist. Um I really think trans public transportation all that great. No, I mean see I have a daughter who drive so it's it's like wow wrapped here it's not bad in the summer but from say November to it's there's really and we begged them to when they first started please do it during the school year so kids can use it but it's they just didn't have the drivers for kids and then when you have after school activities that that the problem that the schools have in trying to get late buses that's just like mass panic. So who has the buses that leave like and go to the lab and go to Hancock Brewer? That's transportation. That's down east transportation. But that's subsidized by the way. Yeah. Yeah. So I would do we need to rephrase this find it needing to be more sometimes also phrasiology is more like hey let's let's highlight at least what's a little bit positive and then try to bring in the negative part so it's not all like transportation not your own public transportation sucks like hey here's all and we're gonna keep that right have some good things going for us to very limited but I also hope not to like play devil's advocate in the free if you think this is like just as an example not necessarily this one if you think there's like a really important point to make where you're like I just know when we get into setting our goals and strategies like we are going to like go hardcore into the public transportation recommendation you can phrase it in a way where it's like more transit options

are needed or something like that that's very direct and simple um and then the followup can be like this text here. So, if that's something just as an example um that you felt strongly about, it can be like because ultimately we're helping people connect the dots between like you know here's the finding and then it logically informs the goals and actions. It could be but more transit option more year round public transportation options are needed. I also think that on the section about Cranberry Islands, I think that's an interesting possible conversation to have like how much what's the need of the Cranberry Islands and how much more of our towns should be devoted to parking lots of Cranberry Islands. I I mean we have to figure out what works for this is a focus on what works for the town desert and we also have to focus on the regional concerns. thought, should we actually have more parking lots? Like like when I go out and try to do something around the elementary school and there's no parking spaces like when you want to park in the cranberry island block and get towed, you know, I figured this out. They don't own that lot, do they? They don't own that property, do they? They rent, do they? From the town from the Catholic church. From the Catholic church. Oh, no. By the elementary school. Yeah. What was What's that? This is town. Mhm. Then they park over here, too, right? But they have to get a permit. I mean, it's all Yeah. Yeah. Do you need a permit for that one up there, too? Yeah, you do. Otherwise, you have to go. One thing we don't talk a lot about in this is parking. And so, some of these we work with, it's like all about parking. Yeah. We're not going to do a count of parking spaces. Well, it is the biggest issue that comes up anytime anybody tries to do anything. I think we

need another key finding about people talk about wanting to put commercial stuff in Sville. Excuse me. Underground. Yeah. Can I ask a question about the northeast drivers of Idaho? Yeah. Can you remove the word mainland because we are not the mainland. True. Yeah. We may be bridge but we are. It's a geography stop right there. Okay. And Katrina and I have talked about this in the past. We need a multi-level parking garage. Oh, we've talked about it. Could I put that plug in that when we redoing the marina that we have had actually did a like a like it was a Google SketchUp version of the parking garage up there and I cannot find it but it was totally in about it was nobody wanted to talk. So be happy. And there's also there are fairy services plural. Sure. Thank you. So you said the parking garage option was too expensive that the time we didn't get we couldn't get further into the conversation because everybody thought it was going to be thought going to be piece of the cheapest structures to build. They're empty. their honey for itself. I think that's a good time parking garage is here already. You could just do another debt. just out, you know,

could have had the whole floor or whatever and then wouldn't have to have your cars in the winter under that road. Yes. All right, that's a good fight. Let's talk about parking. No, I think the question was we didn't have key parking as a key finding, but it sounds like it should be. So, how going to that? There are there are parking requirements for building any structures in town. Yeah. Well, not really. Well, yes or say adequate parking shall be provided. Yeah. and COA couldn't get an occupancy permit on that building for students until they had secured off. No, they very when we approve the permit for for we met we went by the ordinance but I don't think any way shape or form there are enough parking spaces there aren't today when I was definitely full ordinance so it uses the word adequate so that's well no yeah but it was I can't remember what it was but it was car one long one lot of space for well are those little houses can You pull up to those and park, but you know a lot to one car. You're limited to one house and that house can take at least two f, you know, like Yeah. Yeah. So, so the other vehicle has to park elsewhere, right? And so I asked all those questions, but there wasn't anything we could do about it. Yeah. Wow. But so here's another thing to think as we're thinking about parking as an issue because it be is becoming a deterrent to being able to do good things in town because there is a parking perceived parking issue. One of the things that we have to think about is what is what is a good set of

kind of solutions to that and other like have you know a lot of towns have thaw provide x number of parking spaces per table per square foot for different uses and whatnot that factor given the the geography and just development this area so is part of really a problem in that yeah it Well, because we were in Tracy and now there's signs all along there. No parking. No parking. And then this year there's there's some no parking road. Is that Yeah. Now there's no parking. I assume they were. I don't know. Yeah, I assume it was Tom. But also the Seal Harbor Sand Beach is a problem when the Jordan staff parks in the sand beach parking lot when the contractor the bus come any contractor that's up on the hill and they're going to be there because if six guys drive to work at their pickup trucks then don't groom at the property right so These are PJ and parking for the property. So what do they do Jordan P? Does the bus go by? They can probably jump off the bus. Yep. I mean a lot of people that want to hike in the far seal harbor Jordan pond we put up a bunch of no parking sign. Well that was happening here too when Bar Harbor went to paid parking. People were parking here jumping on the bus to Bar Harbor. They're willing to walk a mile to get to the Jordan house to then go. They put on the bus, can't they? The bus goes there walking Yeah. They'll either walk the seaside trail down the beach or walk Jordan Bond

road to almost in the village. I mean, years ago, we used to park right by the gate to the pit and walk go in there and walk. And then they then when the park put the rocks along the side of the road and drive, I said I said one day I said, "Well, there goes our parking there." And my husband said, "Oh, people aren't going to walk there." I said, "Next year." Yeah. Put up more parking signs. I was like, "Why have any more spaces? Why park?" Well, people are leaving their cars like at that intersection if it's safe. Well, I did see someone was saying they may start taking reservations for Jordan's house. Yes. Or Beehive Sand Beach, that area. Yep. Well, we're saying because you can take the shuttle there, right? Yep. Well, we'll see how this new transportation center and Yeah, I can't. I know. I know. I can't If I was on vacation anyway. No, I know. Exactly. Not forced to use it. Yeah. I I'd be riding and something like Venice, it's like where you park and get them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't We talked about Seal Harbor Beach um and areas in Sil Harbor. Um and we talked about sort of the role that parking minimums play in development and the impact for the new. We know that every business along Main Street complains about too many people parking there for too long for one reason or another. They it it inhibits customers into their into their business. Well, the other side of the point is that too many cars in fact impact the quality of life. Yes. In these towns where the cars parked every you know you pack park as many cars in as you want to. If you don't have the infrastructure to put cars and you don't have a way of limiting you can't you can't do the development and like you know I brought up Stonesville there's talk well why can't

you have a business here or there's no place to park and you're not going to widen that road it's like a massively traveled road. Yeah. So you guys want meters on Main Street is where you're actually bringing that up. The public meeting will be advertised. Southwest was here the last few summers. Oh, I know. Is it Southwest? Wasn't that brought up at a meeting or something for Southwest? I thought I read that like the Bar Harbor story or something lot in Southwest. Yeah, that's a private lot. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There's parking on this. There's like one side of the road, right? Any other spots? You know, any trail is pretty congested. Yeah. I'm going to be talking with park uh pretty soon. Okay. Unless they don't park in their Well, that's Yeah, we have plenty of parking in my probably two, but not I shouldn't say Long Pond. Yeah, but the meeting was Oh, part of it. Long Pond of Long Pond. That's a problem. Yeah. Yeah, we're doing a public access study with Main Coast, too. Definitely looked at Yeah. all of their all the public access points to water. Um, so that's definitely on the on the radar. So as a as a chapter section, do we say like parking is a resource like it's a limited resource that we have that we have to share with community members, visitors, businesses. Yeah. And it has to be managed. Yeah. I think so.

And it's a public I mean there's public parking, right? And so it's something the town is managing. Um I think in an inventory it's you know acknowledge that it's a challenge in these aspects in these places and then you know tea up a key finding that kind of hits on that leads to some excellent work by the I suspect there's no data on number of complaints filed oh that's a really good question we could find out we're trying to avoid like counting the number of spaces you can recommend a parking study right like in the comp plan or if you think there's particular areas where there needs to be a park. Well, it matters how many how people park. They get a little off. Some one person can throw off that whole little strip there. And you're like, "Oh, we're two cars now. No." It depends on how they park. Yes. So like a little long pond may be a more efficient layout of the limited space that you have available would help with parking, but something like a downtown northeast harbor might be a parking study that really starts to evaluate their public parking and how to best use public or expand public parking. And then you're just going to have to limit numbers. You're just going to have to limit numbers. You can't infinitely increase seasonally the number of people who are just crowding in. Yeah. Well, you have a limited number of spaces and that's it. And you can't like you can't do the overflow away along the edges of the road. I like that bubble. There's like what? You either get one at home or not. Yeah. You get there and it's frustrating. Yeah, it's very frustrating. This area here is like the poster child for this. So, if you know together. It is literally like there's a toddler wandering here. Yes. People on hikes, people throwing open their doors, people going

60 miles an hour, they have put in that new Yes. Right. Yes, that's And then there's Oh, where's that back there? Oh, but are as long as they're signs, I guess. It's um so for Mount Dessert's version of that, it's over at Decadia Mountain. Okay. Yes. Right. Well, that's that pinned. Yes. Yeah. And yeah, that goes to Does anyone park there? I don't even That's awesome. So, they work with the park to address parking on land. Yeah. So, what are parking things that the town actually can do on the way? They did that was landing guard. I want to go back to Kathy's example of the CLA project. Maybe you were talking about like parking. They were not allowed to get an occupancy permit until they had entered into an agreement for off-site parking for x number of cars. And it's their responsibility to figure out where that's going to be. Yeah. They had to get it. They had to go find a a lot spot or like a um they rented they entered into an agreement with the Catholic Church with St. Ignatius and for Exo spaces, you know, during the school year. But it's not enforced. That's a little scam park. I think a lot during this school. I mean, so we get calls about it still. Oh, you okay. But I think where this question in North Star manifests yourself is similar if somebody said I want to do a business. It's it's so much small but like if if one of our goals is to provide multiple or like encourage retail on the first floors and residential or office space on second floors in the village. Then how do we deal with this perception of parking? It's a big is a problem. It's not a perception. It's not reality. How do we deal with the reality parking?

That's what we're going to have to correct. Yeah. Correct. Because we can't just pretend it's not a problem and just let them build and let's do this stuff and then say, "Oh, you stop and walk on too." What I'm saying is it's bad enough when you have like a blueberry festival. People are buying pies once a week. It's like it's really Oh, I love that. Yeah. It's really hard to get I just say I'll put on like It's not a car accident. It's just a pie sale. People be freaking out. We can't I'm like pie sale. Okay. But there's there do it's worth thinking through because one goal would not work without some solutions to the other right seems like the marina great well livability so you can't in functionality you can't just deny the reality of that problem and say well we'll just let people park on the sides of the road on 102 and Yeah, you just can't. I mean, it just makes no sense at all. Well, because I mean, it doesn't make any sense. Many other that we're starting to see is not only are the vehicles getting bigger, but you've got the massive construction vehicles. And if you start doing that, you limit it. You almost narrow it down to a one lane road for some of the biggest, right? Yeah. Oh, easy. One lane road this week down by the fleet and it's a road this week and last week and next week by the dangerous right now. There's no flag or there's nothing in dangerous and just the overall increase in visitors and activity bridge gate on the bridge. It may be over this year. Every might be a little bit quieter this year with the

world event, you know. So, we'll see. Yeah. It hasn't looked like it so far. I was in Bar Harbor today and I had a meeting and I came out and there were plenty of cars parked around, but there was nobody on the street. I was near there all day. I was like, did the apocalypse happen while I was in a meeting? It was really creepy. I know. There were plenty of people. He just would have [Music] they are dead. We have lots of friend I mean they are it's the moveing. So um we're going to move on to the existing ladies. That was great. Thank you. Um and [Music] so I think having monetary I I personally like you know one of my uh I think one of the most fascinating things about this town and this plan opportunity is really to think about how you have these villages right it's so unique and um so when we talk about existing land use here I think that's sort of like a really big overarching um element to emphasize. But um so we have the the villages map um there front and center and I think it's a second bullet point. But when we think about like discussing land use, just putting on our future hat for a second, like discussing land use in a town like this that is um made up of these different villages that are very unique. Um I think it's just important to think about how like the the things that ultimately decide will definitely impact each of these villages in different ways. Um so let's start with the second bullet point just that the northeast harbor serves as the primary service hub but uh and map dessert is defined by a network of snake villages. I got the hand from

Gail. I don't think Northeast Saber is It's not my primary show. No offense, but but it isn't. I mean, it used to be much more than it is now. Yeah, I was actually going to ask that because I mean, so I was we were working on this. I was thinking about how northeast is supposed to be like town center if you will just because so how do we want to just So that's sort of the premise of this, but that was the question. It is a municipal center but the population has definitely shifted. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also where the school is. Yeah. Yeah. So a mun municipal center. So how do we want to describe it? It's really a question because I am it's a hard one when you get into what Suzanne was just talking about which is like you got a bunch of these you know villages around sometimes you know if you're over in pretty much like northeast northeast cyber serves the municipal center of the uptown. I say it's so much about one stock, the bank, the post office. That's my world. Pretty much this. We got it all right now. But it is a big I mean what stuff it can be. Yeah. It could be packed. Oh yeah. We also got a medical facility and it'll be Yeah. The kitchen's building there and Yeah. Yeah. What's going on there? You could say the it is the municipal center and the largest commercial build of the town. Yeah. Yeah. The only commercial stuff in Seal Harbor. Yeah. Yeah, any other bill. But I also wonder if you look around the

room here, you'll find that there are actually eight because there's sound and yeah, Beach Hill. So, Sound Village and where is it? Beach. Beach Hill. Let's go back to this. Those are pretty ancient suspect. We're trying actually distinction get notified. Oh yeah. You go to Tmont. It's like what is sound down where the road sound and all the way. Where do you live? Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Right on Giant Slide Moon. [Music] Okay. All right. I never called Okay. Yeah. No, it it lost it. Try to get it back. is one of the earliest villages of the richest settlement. I didn't even pick up on the church made a statement that uh Northeast Harbor is the largest commercial village, right? But um then Stephanie would say, "But I I really go to Florida." Oh, no. Northeast Harbor is in the economy section. We're talking about things that are serving the local community. I mean, I don't know you, but I I don't buy groceries. No, I don't either, but you know, it's busy. Working here. Yeah. High school kids. The other thing I don't think like the actual service area has to be defined by walkability, but the Fsville is really you're popping in to get gas. You're just across the street to the bank. Yes. So it's Yes. It serves some of those immediate needs, but it's not a No, it's not. Who still has businesses in the building across the street? Like Dr. Steve moved out. There's a Yes. There's a new aiologist

there. Okay. Yeah. So there's the physical therapy. Physical physical therapist went for [Music] sale. Okay. Is there food? Okay. Yeah, I just think it's important to note those are both those kind of notes. Um, okay. And the first bullet is really just about we have a um like a land cover. There's a national land cover map that you look at and you can summarize that like how much of the land is undeveloped versus developed. And so the idea that this is a predominantly undeveloped landscape obviously because the park and and garden preserve. Um the third bullet down, new development in Mount Desert has been modest but is dominated by renovations and so um looking at like permits that have been pulled um those were pulled for renovations or dexter garages. If you're the new permits that were pulled, 120 new permits. So you're saying more were pulled for renovations. Is it important to have that number in here as well? Yeah, we we have that in the data. Okay. But we could add some of that in. We're actually we're going back through and just double checking that as well because we have all the permit data. But it's how that certain permits were described and we may want to bring we're going to may revisit how it's broken down because some of it would be like a new construction could be something that was like a vacant lot that was then redeveloped. Then there's a lot of permits that were like we tore down this house and rebuilt something totally new. So it's also kind of new. I mean a renovation could be an eight billion

project. Yeah. And so I think the conclusion there might be though that there may be a lot of renovation projects which is like could be an add an addition or or taking up like a deck and things like that but like a tear down rebuild or could be adding a a garage apartment or something like that. But there's not been as much like there's a vacant lot that beats that has been newly developed and that is actually kind of an interesting fact and doing that next Thursday having two new houses there not that many I mean I don't I think 120 so we have to go back and recap some things but the reality just that's like really interesting difference land is expensive or and is there not a lot of land for sale I guess like not I mean there's like a lot of big subdivision projects before the county board is going up by North Street. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Where South? I'm not sure. There's a house and then there's like a art museum and then the other side there's to this container there's container buildings and those are houses. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You know, I think one of the things that we're talking about land use, we're talking about density and we're talking about building up more accessibility. If we've got centers like northeast and some other places and like infrastructure like parking that sort of thing is a huge problem we've got 80% well there's a mistake in the description of this because uh about that uh in in this sectionsville well first of all some of the some of the towns have sewer they

don't have sewer throughout the whole thing so I should say some of that and also Sville doesn't have water right So that it's described as water and sewer and that's not correct. But um but I would say that this strongly suggests that we should be kicking the tires on how to grow the community also outside of these more concentrated areas. Okay. How to increase the in density? How to increase activity outside of areas where we know we already have a problem? parking cars and we already have a problem getting do that with the land use. Yeah, we need too of subdivision, you know. Yeah. But you also that's that's the really tricky thing is because you don't want to cut down all the trees and get rid of all the natural lands. Well, most of this 80% is park and preserve anyway, right? So, exactly. It's not that. But but you're not going to what what do you I mean I'm pretty understood this all. We're going to make it really more dense in northeast. I mean are we really talking hard? There's an in between of like before you get to high No, I know. I know. Like if you go through Bar Harbor or as we call it, Bar Harlem, the little south right there, it's super that was all like families like in arms length of each other. Yes. And that was fine. And Seal Harbor, you look at the two D bars and it's like the houses areoom. Yeah. And there was a school there. Yeah. And so and it worked for a long time. And it worked for a long time, right? um and I wonder what the problem is. Yeah. Um but going to uh park meeting I went to, they have a strategy to concentrate impact in specific places. So instead of encouraging people to go to different trails and do different things, they say everybody should go to sand beach,

thunderbolt, Jordan pond and then we can build wider trails in these three places and we can do erosion prevention in these three places and we don't have to deal with the entire park being trimmed. Yeah. Right. So that's their strategy. So, would you want to develop along 198 if you have to put in a new water line, a new sewer line, a new lane for cars, or would you like to just have Northeast Harbor get bigger? I mean, there's not a lot of land left in North Well, but remember, we can now have a second dwelling. Yeah, I do lie. Yeah, but still it's pretty stiff. Actually, the legislature was talking about making it even more dense. We have to allow Yeah. Yes. Very intense. So, it's one of those things the unintended consequence of trying to spread people out is either we get sprawling subdivisions or we have to expand our utilities. Yeah. And traffic and parking like the Oakhill Road. We want more houses on the Oakill road because coming out into Sville that Russia is never going to work. Um but there's lots of land there. There's 24 acres right up the road. Yeah. Right. I mean I look at that land. I'm like what is this? And then Mark's like found it as a swap. But don't you write about exacerbating the halves and have nots if you like jamming more people into smaller and smaller parts of the town and then letting everyone else continue to live on their estates where they don't see anybody else. Some people like jammed in living and some people like living where they don't see any neighbors. Exactly. I don't think it backs down that clean. I think it's about having options, right? And fundamentally wanting to put people where there is infrastructure already in

place. But would would you think anybody would ever suppose that we get to the point you're saying we can have x number of houses in the town? This is we're never going to exceed this number. Nobody. No, I don't think so. I think they also addressing your concern. So there's the potential to have a town of renters, right? If everybody's building multi-analing units, we're going to have a whole bunch of renters who are not building equity like or owners of both. Yeah. Right. So that's the thing like should we encourage condo or something where like smaller lots at least you own your land, you own your building, right? but smaller instead of exacerbating the problem of there are people with acres and then you have a shoe box that you're renting and you're here. You can house a lot more people in the smaller area than like if you had a an acre minimum, you know, you have the Huea project is an owner but smaller whatever foot. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's I hope that will end up being a very interesting demonstration because I think that's a proof of concept there. It would be good to see that it's like oh this works and then it would help calm people down. Yeah. Calm down. The last of this bulb says the zoning reflects rural coastal character but make constrain new housing. The town's development regulations are rooted in the vision of small town coastal living. While this framework helps preserve community character, targeted updates may be needed to allow or encourage new housing options that support year-round residents and meet local workforce needs. So, this is very much about housing, right? And this existing land use applies to all land choices chapter. So, do people have any responses to that

or want to add additional key findings or things that like we talked about in the transportation section like we need to talk about parking? Um, what about here? Can you remove the word workforce because what happens if someone wants to have a smaller newer house but doesn't want to move in housings at Maple Lane and wants to sell their bigger house and they're not going to work. Right. That was the issue was race. So there were a lot of older people living in their houses that have bedrooms, you know. Yeah. People live there. They didn't say you're going to kick them out when they're no longer in work. That's right. That's right. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, if you and if you just remove the word workforce and still support your residents and local needs, right? Yes. Yeah. Thank you. To say anything else about ordinances or findings related to those land ordinances? No, not yet. Not yet. Do we talk about infrastructure in here and yeah, there's all these section that um because I think that that's existing agencies if you're going to develop certain areas is the town should the town be obliged to help and the town is helping I mean we just voted in approval for for for so nine more houses we're going to put in extension to the sewer line so that's a huge commitment shouldn't we do that in other places as well should we make that long-term goal so that yeah fewer septic systems and more or water.

That's something with not I get listening right now. I get listening for I know I'm just going to be like I went to the game. Yeah. Yeah, you know because Okay. All right. It's almost 7 o'clock. Sounds great. Oh, yeah. I think the next meeting we're going to dive into housing. When are we going to know? still in the books. Yeah, lawyers all say sometimes but at least you can start that up there on Yeah. So that's a good that's a positive