Planning Board - Regular Meeting

All right. Second. Okay. We'll call the planning board meeting to order. First on the agenda is approve of minutes from last meeting. So move. So moved by Jen. Second. Second. Scott. Any discussion? All in favor? I. Next on our agenda is to approve Kristen's voucher. Are we ever going to figure out what we're going to say something now? Second, Brad. Any discussion? All in favor?

Tom, is this something that I need to talk to payroll or something? Or is this something that you you can Who who does this? We We never had this before because we had Arlene who had been here for 30 years. It's something special circumstances surrounding your full-time job. Okay. So, are you working on that? I'm assuming talking to Chris about you guys are trying to work something out tentatively, I guess. Okay. I just want to make sure you're not Do we need to approve a voucher? Is that Well, there is no there is no voucher. Yeah. Well, there's a voucher. We don't even

It's not even there yet. Well, when they show up, they would all be approved and they could cut the check if they, you know. Sure. So, she doesn't have to wait even longer. It's been Well, this is just building up. You could buy a new car by the time we pay you. Awesome. Yeah. Okay. On on referrals, um, Norm, do you mind if I add you last? No, that's fine. So I want to add to number four uh some comments on to make a motion for um the article 78 agreement. Add that to number four. All in favor? I. Anyone opposed?

Okay. So right on our thing is application Twinilly City Deli and that's the parking lot. That's you sir. Here come have a seat over here. That's good. Can I see here? Sure. So, I'm just going to jump in real quick on you. Okay. Got it. So, I'm under the understanding that he's doesn't have enough room to put his vehicles in the current location and from his approved site plan there. Too many vehicles. So, they've been parking the vehicles in the old skate park behind the deli building next to tops.

Mhm. which is fenced to completely fenced in and they're parking there. So to make that okay and not bungle up his site plan and his location on the boulevard. He's coming in for tonight for site plan approval to park behind there behind a deli. But hasn't been vehicle stored for a long time even before you were doing it? Uh the owner of the property was storing um a couple of personal vehicles. I don't always know what was I just always remember seeing vehicles back there. How long have you been using them? Years. Okay, we won't we won't talk about that. Okay.

Um under the code it kind of contradicts itself. It says accessessorary uses it's okay and then down later it kind of says it's not okay. He can't he has no room to expand unless he buys the apartment building which is not going to happen. So we gotta do something. We got to grand he's grown. He needs more space. He's technically not supposed to be using behind the deli now, but we need to get everything so

how would we go about doing that? like getting a variance on this one particular code variation. We could recommend that the town board approves his site plan is and that's up to them. I don't think otherwise he would probably have to go to SBA ZBA and yeah I I think that's Can we do it with a special use permit? Doesn't need it. You know what I mean? But that way it's reviewable every year. We're redoing all the special use permits and the zoning code and trying to do away with a lot of this.

I mean, I have no issue with this as it is competitive stuff, you know? So, I mean, he needs I'm just trying to I mean, we don't want him to violate his sight plan where he's at, right? He's grown. He needs more space. He has nowhere to go. So, he's going here. It's back. Is it really bothering anybody back there? No. Well, who owns this property? Um um Paul um Twin City Deli, correct? Yeah, the deli owns it. No, whoever owns. All right. Right.

Okay. So, the only question is is when you're at tops, you can see the cars. that is most that I'd like to get back to go ahead the if they're not the owner of the property, why are they applying for a site plan approval and not the owner? I I was I was advised as the owner of the business that's operating there that I could just like to me that doesn't sound just like just like the guy from the Fantasy Island. He was a renter and coming in for all kinds of stuff and he didn't own the property. Tom, can you speak to that?

I mean, is it really necessary, Tom? I mean, he's the tenant. I think there's a case we made this a tenant. He could come Yeah. I mean, I have a lease contract on the property. You do? Yes, absolutely. How long is this lease? It's It's annual lease. No, I'm sorry. It's a three-year lease. I just renewed in uh December. So he's got three more years there. Okay. Is everybody comfortable with that? Casey, are you comfortable with him? Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So the only the only other question is that you can see the cars from tops.

Isn't that fence? Um it's a chain link fence. It's chain link fence. In the winter in the winter it's exposed. One thing to point out in the summer, um, it's got that red twig dog that's like 8 foot tall now along the side of it. I mean, I can I'll do whatever necessary and whatever plan board would like, but do we feel we need to slat top side? I'm fine with it as it's Scott, does they does Benderson have any concern with paint? I can't speak, but why would they? Okay. Yeah. Anything Benderson builds is that's going to be behind. Okay. The only other thing is there's an RV or something there. That's all personal vehicle.

Okay. Is it possible we could just tell him to park to the south and keep it away from the top side? Is that he keeps it in the corner to the south that that southwest corner. Southwest corner is fine. Right now it's got a lot of snow in the southwest corner. So he move it a little over a little bit in the spring. But yeah, he keeps every he just has two small things he keeps there. I mean RV's kind of big but but he he's all the way to his office to keep it clean for

absolutely and we also try to keep it very very tight and clean. One thing to point out nothing at all is longterm there. It's a very very short term. I mean there's always cars there. Um it fluctuates 10 to 50 at the most. Um but it's a very temporary holding place. Basically, we just need a place where our vehicles when they're inbound can come and stage before we can put them through the recon process. And then our wholesale trades, which we move very quickly, um they go there just awaiting pickup. Um we we auction them off uh on a deal auction online. Uh you know, very temporary. I would say your average vehicle maybe sits there for 10 days. Casey, are are we good with just the dog wood in the summer months and not worry about the winter months with fence landing?

The code does say for screening. Yeah, but what about the winter months? I'm worried about the dogwood smashing all the plastic slats in the summer, you know, growing in the fence and break it. Doesn't say how it needs to be shrink. So, it's up to you guys. All right. But, you know how that plastic looks once it starts. Well, like I said, I have no issue with it with the dogwood as it sits right now. I'm fine with everybody. Okay.

Just um couple things. Um, you talk about a uh a garbage uh disposal area or a something. Do you have that? Where is that going to be? And is it on the side near or is it on the other side? It's the current existing um disposal uh that that's part of his site plan with the plaza. That that disposal is part of our lease contract. So, is it is it within your fence or No, sir. Okay. We don't utilize it. I mean, no operations go on there whatsoever except for pickup and drop off. Um, so it's not utilized, but it is part of our lease contract that we do have access to those dumpsters. They down there. I know that the building department has always talked about striping so they can count cars,

right? Would you be willing to stripe it? I think that's Isn't that gravel back there? Says it's flat top. Um, yeah, I I certainly can. Yeah, I would. I think that that is commensurate with what the building department has said to us in the past. I I in fact I wouldn't even mind striping it because it just gives me a little bit more organization for my lot staff to keep everything lined up like I like it. Right. And I assume you're going to deal with a runoff and so on with engineering. Is there any where does the runoff go?

Uh there's a there's a a I I assume a ditch drain uh to the um north side of it, but there's that must have been dealt with when the original site plan for the skate park came about because there's no change. There's no construction here whatsoever. So So it's just sheet runoff. There's Do you have catch basins or anything or is it just I honestly don't know. I don't think there is because the skate park was there. Yeah. So why don't we just plan for how it was training? Yeah, there there was an original plan. I mean this again this is a pre-existing surface pre-existing black top. Nothing we have done absolutely nothing in terms of construction or change.

Sure. uh there. So I assume that the drainage and all that was pre-existing from the original I just wondered from a you know if there's oil and grease and things that drop and then run into the sewer. Could there be some protection on the maybe we just refer that to engineering? I don't think there is a storm sewer. I think it just drains the ditch to the north and to the west. Plus I don't think the cars are going to be there that long. He's saying they're in and out four or five days. Yeah. How much can they leak? You know, but I don't think you have that type of a No, I we don't have any on the semi, right? Correct. They wouldn't be coming in. Correct. Yeah. Dripping oil all over the place. No, sir. Cars for them.

Um Yeah. But again, you know, this was intended for some parking at some point. So, I'm I'm guessing it does have that drainage already taken into account. It was a parking lot before the state the skate park and then they just built the ramps on town. Yeah. Do you have the original plan? Yeah. I want to see it. Sure. You see the area? Is this it? I might have this. Is this the I don't need to go. Yeah. You see that? He was really a nice guy. Yeah.

Who drew it, Dave? You got that rose for him? No. Cuz this was a car wash. No kidding. When I was a kid, that was a car wash. He came in, looked around, went through the car wash. So, it really doesn't show. Yeah, this is pretty This is You're pretty old. I was I just I remember you right here. Came in. Move. That was a car wash. It was a lawnmower repair shop for a while too. Was it? I remember that. After the car wash. So, in the meantime, good with the dog screening

and that's really the only thing. And even though the code contradicts itself, yeah, it's okay with good. Yeah, I think we need What would be the maximum number of vehicles you'd put back this? Oh, really? That's all? Yeah. Yeah. Again, I mean, we we in a perfect world, we keep everything at our main facility. Uh, but do you have signage or lighting or anything? No. No. And we want to avoid we do want to avoid that. We're looking to not draw attention to the space. No, understood. But I mean, just thinking like a vandal.

Yeah, we have cameras. Um, they have night vision. They're very good. Um, but uh what I've noticed is is you know act that's got the one off the 290 and it's all little. Oh yeah. No thinking about people. Yeah. And our and our uh you know and our operations there are very strictly from 9 to5. So there's no need for it for operations. So and I would just note too there's an error in your in your address. One place it's 2092 and other place it's 2094. So I think that might just be I don't know what that is. You're right. There's probably two numbers.

Yeah, there's like multiple numbers within the plaza. I like the sweet instead of having a sweet number address 400. But I see what you're saying. We should figure out correctly which one we need to use. I I'm very I'm pretty confident it's 209. You can just straighten that. Yeah. So this one494. Yeah, you're going to straighten it out. Then Casey gave us two. Got them all covered. So with striping this, it'll be identified which are through lanes and which is parking area.

Yeah. Well, what I envision is um it, you know, a a longer striped lane if that's okay. Uh because we we do um double stack. Uh, so a longer stripe lane. Um, and then I would like to use some I'd love to use some directionals there just just because it helps my Yeah. In case this isn't a this is parking lot. I don't even see why they even have because that's a requirement. Yeah. You have to stripe lots. I I don't I don't mind striping. I can only help it. Is it all good for drainage? Good for the drainage. You're good. that%. Yeah, if it's put down, it's good now. Yeah, it's all cheap flow.

Okay. What was it the original use? Just a storage lot. I think it was cheaper. Oh, that was the original use. The last site plan. It was says contract customhouse sitewalk. So, something about state parks. Yeah. Okay. We got a motion to approve from anyone. So moved. So moved by Brad. Second second by Amy. Any further discussion? Okay, we're good with the dogwood and he's going to stripe. All in favor? I. Anyone opposed?

You're all set. Thank you very much for coming. I appreciate it. I'm glad you successful with our Thank you very much support. So I appreciate y'all very well and your store looks great and to come off onto the island. It's nice to see. Thank you very much. We really appreciate it and the community has been incredible and nicer and nicer Christmas lights than venderson if I could keep them on. They're a tough one with the 30 mph wind and ice. So, thank you all very much. Thank you so much.

Okay, next on our agenda is the solar law amendments. Tom, do you do you know what's going on with these silver law amendments? Building had no clue. Engineering's got no clue. Rhonda Sony's got no clue. Okay. I think

Well, why are we They've been kind of piggy back together here. or is there some is there something that that's happening with this existing

it was with the sheep figuring out the fencing and figuring that out was a big thing. So when they were redoing that that was one thing we talked about and the egg board was talking about conservation wants to keep like a bigger space under the fence. So there was a back and forth on that and I think from the last time we talked about it, we went through some of us went through the law and made a couple little comments, but we kind of left it like we were okay with where we were and that we were going to leave wherever the sheep needed to land and how they were going to house those how conservation and egg wanted to negate the fence at the bottom high or not higher.

Okay. I remember when the law came in, there was the same thing about the raising the bottom or putting some type of portals in the fence and it was knocked down because if you raise the fence up, kids could get under the fence to get into the solar thing. If you put the portals, the coyote could get in just walk right through the fence to the sheep. So, we kind of said we didn't want either one and we weren't real sure if the rabbits were going to use the portal. And the other part was you had to pull out like a special use permit for sheep

and whatever. And they they were Bridget was switching it over so that using sheep on your property was part of the permissible use if it was in your plan. If when you submitted a site under there few revisions if when you submit the site plan application the vegetation management plan includes the raising of sheep they won't need to apply for special use to be able to use the sheep on the floor which is one of the big messages as far as why they came by together. I think it's just more okay those things need to be made and took the opportunity. Okay.

Battery law is going to be in front of us. I say take this one. Take why the battery. Does anybody have any other comments? We want But I think our big question was how long we'd allow sheep to be on the property. That was the question that was. So it didn't become a farm. Yes, exactly. That was Yeah, it was 14 days I think. And Yeah. Yeah. But I thought they talked about that might not be enough time. Like if there's more expert Yeah. there's more vegetation and you put and you need to only put 20 sheep in there. They can't accomplish the task in two weeks. They need four weeks. But I think as long as 14 days there, then they pull it off for a day, take it someplace, then come back,

come right back. Can't beat. But the big thing is so they don't themselves out of nothing. Make make it a farm. Make it a solar sheep farm. Who's going to police that? I know. chairman. The last time we went through this two months, three months ago with Bridget on the video, she said she was going to incorporate our changes, send them out to us, red line, and I don't know if that if this is the red line or not, and then we would all talk about it again. Are we doing that tonight or not?

No, because the town board is going to have a meeting on the 26th with Bridget. I believe the town board I think me and Jeff Green from CAP. Is that correct? Town. Yeah. And anyone else that wants to come, we're going to have a big meeting at 6:00 on the 26th. Oh, it's moved to five. Okay. Battery storage. Battery storage. And exactly. That one I don't think has been redlined because this came by. Well, we do have a a marked up copy here with changes in it. Did Bridget do that or did

if that's the one that came from her or it may just be highlighting the change? I believe it's conservation eggs Mark that they gave comments back. I used to sit on the egg board that's I I resigned this year but we I think that's what's in there is the egg discussion they had and conservation went through it with her. So I think that's what the red line is in there. whether they're the planning board comments that were made that I can't confirm. I I don't know, Norm, if that's her comments or Cab's comments. We We can't seem to I was down here for two hours today. We can't seem to figure it out. So why don't we comments that she made to the to whether or not they know

so CAB was sending they sent this CAB sent us one thing that wasn't the proper one without their comments remember last meeting then they were sending their their packet with their comments to Bridget because Jeff Green sent it to me and I said, "No, don't give it to me. Send it to the lawyer." Well, supervisor nurse.

I mean, here part of the problem they don't nobody should be sending anything to the lawyer until it goes through us because I'm not going to waste the money to make changes to their bill if I don't plan to adopt. That's the whole point of having this meeting in a couple of weeks about the conse I didn't know that procedure. No, that's okay. I just again, but at the end of the day, okay,

that's where we've been at you guys. And that's why town board agreed to have that meeting because it makes more sense for all of us to sit down and have a discussion about some of these points. Figure out which of them we do the town board wants to incorporate into the law before we have her draft the law that we're just going to tear up, right? Because she asked about coming tonight. And I kind of said why? Yeah. So the 25th we're gonna we're going to meet on 25th or the 6th. 26th. 26th at 5. So I when she emailed me I was like well why come tonight if we're going to meet? Yeah. Why pay you twice? I mean, it's not my money, but why pay twice?

So, anybody that wants to come on the 26th at 5:00 from our board is welcome to come. Then why would we we go over either of these tonight? Well, I thought we needed to do something.

Well, I got a couple I can't be there. The one thing out in solar law that I I think is I feel strongly about is the tier three and tier four being allowed in residential zones. Um and I think uh conservation talked about that too but I don't think and Q4 solely should be allowed in anything other than B1 M1 and F2. That was sort of my biggest takeaway looking up the whole thing.

Okay. Well, that was one reason why I wanted to meet tonight so that if anybody had any thing they wanted to if they can't make that meeting. Right. So, we have some some input here. Yes. I said that was okay. One of my takeaways. So, does anybody else have anything if if you're not going to make the 2016? Didn't we didn't we discuss that when I believe we did. We did discuss that. I don't think you caught it. And it and it is confusing in here because it starts out saying tier three and tier four and then it only talks about tier three and it includes the residential. Just to be clear, I don't in my opinion we shouldn't have res a

in tier three or should be any of them should be in residential neighborhood myself. Well, if somebody's putting them tier one's just putting stuff on their on their house, right? That's no commercial enterprise is what I'm right. You see in October the town board made a motion to send that to the county. Did has there been any response you know solar? Oh,

yeah. Because you had a motion. Yeah. Is there any restrictions on how many panels a homeowner can have in their property? Whether it's on the roof or an array in their backyard. Yeah. Has to be under a certain me. Oh, is this done by the watt? Okay. Anyone else have any other comments that So, we have this meeting on the 26th. I can make sure I make them if you're not going to be there. Dave, what will happen after the 26th? I'm I'm assuming after the 26th she's going to get the law drafted. Tell me if I'm wrong here, Tom. She'll redo it and send it the final draft to us. So all this copying for this month was or not

JC. So it you're saying it's done by the megawatt. So they can have arrays all over their yard. There's a maximum there's a maximum size that they have. So all I'm saying is I think it should be restricted to their roof. I don't want to live next door to a guy that's got three arrays in his backyards. There's one right on the corner of Staley and Stony that got in the backyard. Yeah, that white that old white farmhouse right on. There's a bunch of them that are ground mounts on the island. Just depends on what kind of yard they have and the setback where they're going to sit. Sometimes they look better behind your house, ground mounted and all over the front of your house

on the roof. On the roof. Well, I that's a whole another story and ahead. Okay. So, to clarify, so the planning board's not going to give any comment on this. We're waiting for Bridget. We're expecting to get the new law back redline before we go further with reviewing another copy. So, if we don't get it by the next planning board, then we won't be discussing it at the next planning board. I just want to make sure I'm only asking D because I've read through these things about 40,000 different copies and I'm trying to it's hard to keep up hours.

The town board will work with Bridget to prepare a revised copy of the law based on the comments we've received from this board from the other boards in incorporating those of which the town board wants to incorporate. Right. Right. I guess that comes back that comes back. It may or may not be here by year now. Honestly, I wouldn't bet on it. I wouldn't I just want to clarify it so that it doesn't say that the tom board didn't make a comment. And the reason we didn't make a comment is because we're expecting to make comment once we get a copy. It's absolutely I wouldn't be surprised if we end up having another public hearing on it because this plan is to do it right. But again, why

now back and forth? Okay, now we're going to move on to number three, the battery law. We have a couple folks here.

So, is there anything that he's here? Anybody have any questions for him? Well, are we going to go through this line by line? Well, again, we're meeting Bridget on the 26th, but if you're not going to be able to come to that, like Dave's not coming to the meeting, I'd like to if you can't make it, I'd like to either have you send me your stuff or you want to go through it now? I'd like to go through it. Yes, I've got five points to make but we can go through. Are we going to come up with a letter like this for the town board based on our comments or how are we right to them

difficult like I I wrote out these were the comments that I went through with the the law um I won't be able to make Monday but these are the things that I that I flagged and was I'm concerned of um so I think you can either do it this way or or mark up go through line by line now with what we have. But otherwise, I don't think we could we could rewrite the whole thing. I think it would be quite be a lot. And I don't know if it would get us any further just because Bridget's taking comments in from the other boards. It might not be our due diligence, but I think we should get comments.

Deb had a lot to say, but they did a good job in part. He did a nice job, too. So, incorporated in the smart copies. Yes. Caps and Yes. Yes. Okay. Let me ask you this question, Eric. The conservation brought board brought up if there was a fire to have some type of evacuation plan on Grand Island. Is that necessary?

No. And and that's not standard. Um when we if should we have the opportunity to submit an application to the planning board, it would include an emergency action plan that would detail in the event of a battery fire of which the risk is very low how um respond. Uh evacuation is not required. Uh the fumes is like something that comes up frequently regarding like evacuation. Um, and the fumes that come off a battery fire are very similar to a normal structural fire. Um, there's nothing specific about like the battery fire that causes um a health hazard. And this has been proven by um like after an incident has occurred. Response teams testing water, soil, and air quality in and around the surrounding area. Um, and it's it's shown to not um harbor increased uh or elevated levels of like contaminants that would be a danger to human health. Um, and not only has it been stated by like fire safety consultancies, but um like the EPA has like fact sheets on us um the state as well because there's just so much information out there.

So if you have your you would be doing the storage facility, your company. Yes, we would be. So, if you have this battery storage thing, god forbid, catches on fire, then you would have a whole plan given to the town of how you're going to maintain the fire, check the soils, and get everything back up to to snuff. Exactly. It's um and it would be coordinated with the local fire department as well. Okay.

Typically, what we do is we submit the application to the planning board. we get like a completeness review. Um, and then after maybe like a first procedural meeting to, you know, ensure that like the application's accepted, you guys kick off Seeker, County 239, what have you. Um, we have like a informal meeting with like fire department staff and we bring our consultant that prepared the emergency. Okay. Because the fire department's saying that they don't have the appropriate equipment to put out this style of fire. So, so is that something that you would provide?

Yes. Uh and it's it's a conversation like every fire department's a little different obviously. So um we offer annual training for the fire department and one of the things we offer you know like every project offer something to the community. We typically offer like a host community agreement in some form to not only like provide for you know the the cost of that equipment but um just you know the fire department really has to kind of uh be trained and be brought up to speed. So it it's one of the things that we like to do is

So let me just interject here because I think there's a a little bit of difference of engineering opinion here. Fire departments aren't going to put out the fire. It's not they're not able to put it out, right? They can control it, but they're not going to put it out. So the idea of extinguishing that fire by the fire department is erroneous. They're not going to put it out. They're not extinguishing it, but there's like different types of equipment that they may need in order to respond. That's just to stop it from spreading. Exactly. Taking out the whole island. Right. And it's very toxic, right?

Uh it's mainly defensive action. So the battery will like self consume. So uh they may like spray the surrounding area with water just like cool and wet, but they're just ensuring that the surrounding area like a robe, you know, ember or something like that, which is why it's so important to set these away from like, you know, close to buildings and you ensure that like there's not vegetation that's going to catch nearby. I mean, even Dave, even with new construction and all this spray foam, they say when that spray foam ignites, it lets off toxic gas in a residential home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, size batteries are going on the island, how long they got on fire, how long have they burned for? Days?

No. Uh I mean, the larger fires that you see in the news, like some of them had um been like much longer, but it's it's really like four to six hours. Um, and it really depends on like the facility size. I think I think but a Tesla burns for four hours. Exactly. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. These are So, how could that place only burn for four hours when a Tesla or more? It's actually a Tesla battery that we would be. So, how much water would you need for like cool just one battery or

Well, I mean it's it's depends on like how you procure the system. Like we would probably propose a Tesla mega pack. Um, and then depending on what parameters you came up with the code and feedback from National Grid, we would size it uh proportional. And I'm under the understanding New York State is pushing these storage facilities.

Um, yes, there's a upstate battery program. Um, initially there was a like downstate New York City, Long Island one. Um, and and really the batteries uh that would need to be cited would have to meet like those New York City requirements. I think part of the code actually speaks to that. So, um, they kind of like passed the sniff test of like much like closer to like other structures. Um, but then, you know, New York City also revamped its fire code to address this as well. Why do we need the battery storage?

I mean, it helps support local grid infrastructure tremendously. Um, we provide capacity that could be dispatched um in at times of high demand. So uh it actually stabil the more batteries that are deployed it actually stabilizes electricity pricing over time because you reduce the need to bring in um generated power. So it's not it's not the solar fields powering the battery storage. It's separate,

right? It's actually I mean it it does capture like the benefits of like excess renewable generation but um it's it's pretty agnostic when cited uh as like a standalone battery. It it simply just charges um when there's low demand and dispatches during high. Okay. Did you have this stuff and Well, no. I mean it wasn't around when I was still uh at work. But I mean the idea is they're going to be taking off peak power to charge their batteries, right?

Off peak power is at night. So I mean solar is not generating like you know there's no wind farms on the island. So you know the idea and that was one of my comments here of citing those two together is you know we don't need to go there. They really operate independently. Each one is connected to the grid which is just a huge battery by itself. So the, you know, solar firms are dumping it into the, you know, grid during the day and at night, you know, the grid will be feeding the batteries to charge them up and then during the day they'll be, you know, putting them back in.

There is a little bit of a nuance to that. Um, solar and batteries do work well in certain scenarios. So developers will often like size their solar projects to be a little bit larger than the maximum amount of power they can deliver because um you know the panels have different efficiency throughout the day and produce varying amounts of electricity throughout the day. So, in the event that you're actually producing more power than you can deliver to the grid, rather than losing that electricity production, you could store it in a battery so that when your your solar production falls, but you can maybe put out, you know, you're you're generating four units of but you could deliver five. That battery can make up the extra one. Um, so so there is like a use case for like a solar battery coupled together, but

but they don't directly feed each other. They're both connected to the grid. The solar can uh I mean there's a couple different configurations battery um and both can send through the same point of interconnection. Um you could also have them on the same property but they function completely. So how does the how does your tax base work in other areas? Do you pay property taxes? Yeah, it's it's similar to solar. So we would structure a pilot. Um we would go through that standard process. the RTL offices. Um, it's it's very similar. Do you buy the land or you lease the land? It depends. Uh, for the project that I'm looking to do in the M1 district, it's a lease.

It's a lease land, right? And then your your company, how are they a corporation out of somewhere? Yeah, we're I mean, we're based in New York City. New York City. Yeah, we're we're an LLC. How long have they been in business? Just over five years, I believe. Do you have other facilities in New York City? Uh, no, not in New York City. We're we're primarily an upstate New York developer. U, and the reason why we don't buy the land is they're so compact it's could be 10,000 square feet to I mean maybe the biggest is like 30,000 square feet. Um, so you're you're often in a situation where you're buying for property need. So,

and the exterior that they look kind of like a shipping container to me. The exterior is what color? any color. I mean, it could really be any color. It I I think nine times out of 10, if you were driving down the street, you wouldn't you wouldn't know that it was a battery. It's uh the it's just like a shipping container. It's like 9 ft tall, six feet wide, just they're 30 feet long. Um and you just kind of have them have space like five or 10 feet apart. any any if you go past the major transmission thing on White Haven and the giant transformers, are they any more dangerous than the giant transformers? Yeah, sure. Because they start fire in them. Cuz they can start up catch on fire.

Yeah. Right. Spontaneously, too. And in the five in the five years that you've been doing this, have you had any catch on fire? Right. No. Um, you know, we haven't we're not like an owner operator. Um, so, you know, we're a developer. Um, and like someone that has a 40-year operating horizon would them from us. Uh, which is, you know, the process also spelled out in like this code. Um, but no, I think, you know, given the opportunity to provide like a complete application to the board, you know, we'd be able to demonstrate um that they're safe and reliable. And I think that's the standard we'd probably have to meet in order for you guys to issue a special permit.

So if you guys have like a 5-year lease, you say you lease the property, you guys are all said and done, five years come up, what happens? You just walk away and leave the batteries there. You got to pick them up and No. So um structure like a 20-year lease and rules. No, that's what we need. we we'd be fully incentivized to operate better and just like solar plant. So it's not like the restoration requirement still applies. I'm one person. How do you guys cool them? Uh there is a HVAC system um and uh and a coolant inside it.

So no water is necessary to keep the unit running at any time. And the other question I had um would isn't New York State, didn't they just January 1 go to the thousand foot? It has to be a thousand foot setbacks. No, from residential. No, I don't I don't believe so. So there's no water uh because it's electrical. I think it's an electrolyte, right? But I I thought Kathy Hokll had it was a thousand thousand foot setback from any residential that just went in on January 1st of 2026. And the I'll double check it. just believe. So the state actually has a model law for these and it doesn't Yeah, I read the NARA and but don't you have to put the unit someplace close to the main grid?

Yeah, just like um solar just like a solar you're looking at like three-phase electric lines. Um typically like in the M1 or like what about noise? Noise. Um it's it's like a large HVAC unit. So, it's going to be it's going to sound like a vacuum cleaner if you're So, how many dB do you think? Do you know something like that? I think it's 70 dB at 3 meters, but um don't hold me to because it's it's will be stated on the data sheet that we need to supply as part of the package. And

um you move forward with like the proposed code to the the noise analysis. I think it's like a six decel max at the property line above ambient noise which is I think really uh fair and you know for for those units that are maybe on smaller properties or closer to the property line there are like acoustic walls um screening is like as a requirement fencing too fencing screening lighting so similar to a solar park exactly it's chairman are we going to go through this page by page or we can if you like well I just want I just said while he was here if you had some questions you can you can get it right from the horse's mouth here.

The other thing um one of the reasons why like I attended tonight is I imagine uh some folks won't be able to attend like this upcoming joint meeting. So, if there are like comments that or questions like these that I could answer or even like um write out answers, uh I'd be happy to like take those. And let's go, Norm. Um go ahead, start. My first comment I found was on page nine. Dave, did you something earlier on? On page nine under general requirements. Are you looking at the red line?

Well, the red line. Yeah. Okay. general requirements. This is P27 um paragraph three where it says goes on to say about um they shall pay the cost of town engineers. Now what I'd like to add at the end of that and whatever other cost are required for inspection testing after decommissioning because if they have decommissioned they should cover the cost of that too. So we would need a decommission clause similar to solar.

Y they they would be responsible for covering that cost, right? That's what solar says you have to decommission pay for. Yeah. So you would want the same thing here

over on page 12 under safety. Paragraph B, item number four. Um, the last sentence there, a report summarizing all maintenance activities and operation records shall be filed annually. The special use permit renewal application. If we don't have any operation data, we don't know if it's in service. So at least annually we should have a record of what they have put out because otherwise we can't deem is it in use or not in news. So you I suppose we could have went out and listened to it.

So you're saying if he closes it down we wouldn't know. No, not unless you went out and inspected it, right? So that we should get a copy of their operation records which would I think show either a a day by day or week by week, month by month output of the unit. Is that something that you guys have? I think it's an issue. I think uh we need to come back annually for like reacting permit. Um and also I think I'm sorry if I got this wrong, but I definitely know it's part of the solar code is uh like we need to show u that this is slight ongoing operations otherwise that's what Norm says

clause go ahead norm okay um on the next page there uh 14 permitting requirements this is Jen this is where that thousand foot came in but in paragraph paragraph to setbacks. It talks about a minimum setback of 1050 ft.

My my my what the proposal and some of that I gave you guys. I think the setbacks really should not be um they should be on the use of what the the unit is and and what their buildout is on them on the actual building itself because there's so many variances on and when you read through New York State code and some of the you read through some of these codes that's how they really propose it that it's hard to set definitive setbacks. It really has to do with the land use and what the what the what the battery storage unit is on the property. But it looks like the change that was made here. Yeah. I'm was crossed off. I was very confused by all Yeah. That's why I was just That's why I did what I did.

I don't believe that. That's correct. It's my So, do you have a number in mind? Well, for you or we just want and the note off to the right of that, you know, it's saying that a thousand foot setback from residential is what's required as of January 1. So, that has to be investigated. I don't think we're going to have a lot of residential on that wall. Well, this isn't near. No, one of the spots they're talking about corner of web and baseline, there's homes, right? There's close. Yeah, there's there's homes right there. Yes. That's why I really So on and Medel as well, right? Yeah. Where's the other thing there? Look, Medell where Medell. Yeah,

that's why my thought of an overlay district is kind of ideal because well the solar firm is there on one side. There's part of that that if you met then you can all of these all these numbers we can actually look at the properties that these would actually fit to and then every we say this is you know acceptable versus it it puts safety guidelines on the next page where they incorporated the um Grand Island fire departments in one case they they had what page

page 16 in paragraph uh I design requirements three in the middle there where they they call Grand Island Fire Department they call it GFID. So just a typo. Um moving on to page 17 there. Paragraph nine screening. Evergreens planted to be used as screening must be a minimum of six foot tall at the time of planting. Wouldn't evergreens be a fire hazard? Yeah. Yes, for sure. Only if they're dead. No. Oh my gosh.

Break a branch and light it on fire. Yes. The sap. That's what's fire starter when you're out.

It's evergreen. So, I I looked up the thousand foot setback and it's just a bill that's proposed by um some folks at the state level. It's it's not anything that's endorsed and um it it actually goes against a lot of what the state has been recommended about. Uh and that's because the batteries themselves uh incorporate some pretty robust fire propagation mitigation. Um so for screening uh every town that I'm permitting batteries in has requested caniferative screening um and you know would it be offset from the sense uh from the fence similar to solar um if fire propagation like is the concern I think um holding that as like a standard an applicant would need to meet and you guys having the subjective authority to deny a special permit on the basis that we can't prove um propagation won't occur. I I think that would be like what I would love to see as an applicant like put the onus on us.

Um rather than incorporating in the code, you're immediately telling me I need to seek a variance. Uh which makes it a lot like less palpitable. Um but that to answer your question um yesiferous screening evergreen bushes these are all things that are in um most if not all the battery I'm permaning on go ahead I don't think it's a good idea to use evergreens my two sense a higher fence could be required with like an opaque vinyl screen um with or you could have like a chain length fence with like privacy slats um

I think it would all depend and what the boundary of the property is. That's again that's why I keep saying where where the actual storage system is versus what the size of the property is. So if we wanted to create screening that was you know this is a twoacre lot and they have something little like there's so many variables in that that's how I was looking how far the unit is from screening. Yes. Exactly. What it comes down right we could do a site plan approval. they submit a site plan and we could say well wait if you're gonna put here we want the screening you know it's not important I think there's so much more in front of that before okay go ahead

like beho on page 23 there 23 is a typo paragraph seven hot war zone layouts That's their supposedly their emergency. Well, they've been changing it, but depending on how the operation plan's going to be. So, in order to see, but what's the war? Yeah, war. I don't know. Warm warm. Hot, warm, cold. They missed the They missed the M. Okay, go ahead. Norm,

I'm used to reading the proof read that's things come up. better than me. Um, and then I don't know where it was, but once again in there it said that they should be colllocated based upon the CAB's comments. They should be at the same location and I do not think that's a necessary. It may preferred to be at the same location. Same location of what? Solar or other um sources of energy. Okay. I don't think it should be a requirement and I think they've got it in here. I think they do. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Um I mean it's you could put it it's preferred that they would be because then you could the screening could take care of both but it should not be a requirement because the two that you know are on the books right now are not in a location where there's other energy sources. Okay. Is that that all you have? That's what I have for now. Dave, you're up. Yeah. I I don't think I got that copy to edit. I got a different copy to edit. So, mine might be in different uh different order. But first I add was the um I think under definitions have the battery energy for the storage management system.

What page are you on? I'm on page three of 17. Oh, that's I think we got that last week. second. Go ahead, Tom.

That um it says um it should be disconnected from the electric power grid. What needs to happen in the energy management system? It needs to have a remote um indicator to the fire department that there's a thermal issue going on because once shutting down the system doesn't do any good. Once it's in thermal runaway, it's gone. So, there needs to be an early warning system that goes back to the fire department that alerts them that that there's a heat increase and there's a problem. Eric, is that something you do? Yes, it's a required component of all of that. Okay. But it should be in the law nonetheless.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, the second is I still think and I said this before in my memo, the definition that we have in here for tier three is not correct. Tier three duck is wrong. The um on page seven and you want that you want tier three to be what I wrote two two months ago. It's from the December meeting is that tier three three and four not to be allowed in residential. I'll get to that.

Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. That's just the definition you should know the uh on page 717 and I forwarded this to uh I guess to use to Bridget the requirements for New York City. New York City does not approve uh installations. They do not improve an installation. What they do is they depend on approval from the manufacturer and they're not going to come to Grand Island to approve the installation. So it needs to be clear that it's a certificate approved by the manufacturer, not by the New York City fire department. Is that standard, Eric? I'm not sure, but I mean certainly New York City. Oh, near

right. Um on that same just because that's the same thing we're talking about. So that was something that I had put in there that um that UL 954A fire testing data is the standardized meth method which shows the heat release flame flame propaganda gas generation and spacing and separation implications but that system testing um should be configuration specific and not just a generalized across the systems. the true safety data of the specific plan should be submitted as a whole and in tandem but just not its parts that New York City this is fire sake but as a whole. Yeah.

Um then under permitting I circled up um for tier three battery systems um not allowing them in residential areas only in I mark up M1 and M2. Uh, I guess there could be a debate, but I think those are the only in my opinion the only appropriate places to um put these the design requirements. I'd add within 200 feet of a hydrant. is there's no way any of the fire department trucks can carry enough water to get one of these fires under control by bringing water to the site. There needs to be a hybrid nearby. We could argue about how far, but uh there needs to be a hybrid in when they do catch on fire, god forbid,

do they put them out with water since they're electrical? No. No, they just spraying area and just like a like a forest fire. So, you know, spray around so it don't spread out. Exactly. Okay. Got it. But you need to put a lot of water.

Okay. I just want to understand what the heck it is because it's not in the fields. And I said um under uh permitting requirements to be um in agreement with the NFPA, which is the National Fire Protection Association, and the New York and the New York State 2025 fire code. Neither one of those were were referenced in the in the document. And the last thing I had was under army report just uh signed by a PE licensed in

thought they had covered. I didn't see it nor I um Casey Wood sealed by New York State registered professional the New York fire inspectors inspect this thing like part of your permit. You know how you build a house? I have to have the underwriters come and inspect the electrical. They do the same with the commercial the commercial environment. Yes. So it has to be inspected for local code. Is that what you're um hearing that? Yeah, that that would be part of it, right?

But the design should be in concert with the NFPA and the New York State the current New York State fire code and those are they reference some other codes in here but not those two. Okay. Is that something that you generally do, Eric? a state fire code of course fire code you need to comply with and I believe the FDA is correct as well and we may have also cited that in public responsibly those are my number that conservation quoted all of them anybody Jen you got are you coming to that meeting or no come on

you going to give me your list then so that I can yeah I gave you one and I gave Okay, this is yours. Yes. And um David, in conservation they did in here they quoted the the uh EPRI and the NFTA. Yes, I saw that. Okay. I just Yes. I was hopeful. I think the conservation advisory board did a nice job together. Yeah. So, they had some good funds. Yeah. Anybody have anything else? Okay. So, we got some I just want to officially put these in there. I spent hours on them. So, you wanted to give this to I did but so that I say it out loud.

Eric, is there any comments you want to make that we're off the rails here? No, I think uh you know I mean so the I would just say in regards to like department response uh it fire departments have responded to battery fires without even needing to supply the water. So the most recent fire that I can recall was at a site in Warwick, New York, and fire department responded and actually did not apply um any water and and it was a pretty limited response at that. So, um I guess rather than I guess I would lean on like your subjectivity as like a board and also like consulting with like advisory departments and boards like u fire department had said something.

I think we would have to ask the fire department, hey, if if the fire hydrants 350 away, is that gonna, you know, mess things all up? They might say no. I don't know. No, but I think like uh it would be beneficial I think for us to be able to hear the fire safety expert and provide like proof of the things that we're speaking to and you know should the fire department advise you on like adding this additional requirement because we need to demonstrate the code that requires you had a dry summer where everything's dry. It doesn't matter if you're saying something happened in May now and you're in July and this happens. Fire department got a thousand gallons of water on it and they're they can throw it out in a minute, right? Out of water.

Yeah. I Whatever the fire honestly whatever makes the fire department and the town comfortable. I guess I all I'm saying is uh you might not be able to be exhaustive now. So the intent to be overly prescriptive like you might not be able to capture everything and there may be things that the fire department says you know aren't as big a deal but because they become a requirement. code we otherwise need to comply with or get a variance or something. Well, it in in my mind, yes, the air the fire department might get there and say we're going to let it burn and control it, but you need to give them the option of plugging into a hydrant and pouring a lot of water on it. We can't make that decision.

I almost say the residential meters hydrants are Casey, my right, are they a,000 feet apart or 600 feet apart? No. Yeah. So, that there might be one over there. I don't know. So that means you're within where is it on the site? You're within 300 ft. Yeah, but if it's within the street and if it's on a M1 parcel and you're putting this thing in the back because it could be combined with something else, it could be behind a shopping plaza or something. Think about Love Road over there. Who knows? It could be anywhere. Yeah. But they've got to be someplace where they can get that power to the grid because I'm under the understanding it's too much money for you to run a line to get to the grid if it's four miles away. Right.

You need to get as close to that grid acceptance as you can. Right. Correct. Like the solar, right? Yeah. The point is you could have fire hydrant on the property that you're going to put it on but still have it further than you want. Right. It could it's could still be five six hundred feet away. either draw the line and make it make sense or right don't draw. Yeah. I guess my my comment would be like if there if the fire department

wanted you know to have water in the event of a response even if we were able to demonstrate it's not necessary. Um like solving that for the end in the code can be overly prescriptive when there's other ways to address the same problem. Like frankly, uh my proposed project would be on Bedell Road across from the solar project. Uh and we would likely locate that on the southern side of the parcel away from the road frontage. So we could be several hundred feet away from the road, but be able to demonstrate that, you know, in the event of an incident, we could still provide the same safety as if, you know, there was a hydrant nearby.

Okay. Um, I'm glad you mentioned about the location. Someplace in here, it talks about locating these things and where they shouldn't be located. And I made a comment. I'm trying to find it. They shouldn't be located adjacent to a public thoroughare throughway. Yeah. I mean, think about if something like that and you had the smoke and everything coming off of this thing, your through be shut down. Yes. So, I mean, I'm trying to find the page where the wind was blowing east. Well, how you going to tell me that?

I think that should be added to this should not be located adjacent to a public thorough. How many feet away? Well, let me ask you this, Eric. If they do catch on fire, not at worst. Huh? It's not at Well, let's just Well, okay. when when it supposedly it catches on fire, which I don't know if that's true to say, but if it does catch on fire and it's a crazy fire, I mean, does it shut everything down within a thousand feet around or No. So, the I'm just thinking about if a house catches on fire, it really does nothing. It goes up.

So, I think that's the same thing and it's it's really an education effort on our side. We're the subject matter experts. for doing this. Um that's why we asked what the onus to be put on us when we could put a full application. Um there battery these batteries have been along around for a very long time. There's thousands and thousands deployed that you would never hear about. I think like these type of batteries maybe there's like 26 fires in the last decade. Um and so but that's like for us to show. Um, it's a new use, so it's a little confusing and not fully up to speed, but uh the the building on site could catch fire that's next to, you know, and it's the same there. There's nothing particularly unique about these batteries catching fire. It's just they happen to have

What about the temperature difference between a house burning? No. Yeah. What's the temperature difference between a house going up in fire and one of these batteries the same? On a review from the fire department, the fire department put these words in. Lith lithium ion best systems pose thermal runway risks that are effectively inextinguishable using conventional fire hydro meth methods. These events may burn for days, reignite without warning, produce flammable and toxic gases, including hydrogen chloride. They create explo explosion hazards. The draft ordinance acknowledges general firal code but does not uphold the specific hazard. that I'm speaking for myself is what I'm concerned about

and and I think it's very accurate from my experience in industry.

Yeah. Along with that these require often 30,000 per I asked about the water because I was concerned about how much water it would draw from and they're saying 30,000 gallons. The operational strategies of multi-day operations require dedicated on-site water supply of at least 30,000 gallons with hydrants or drafting stations with hydrants or drafting stations positioned outside the hazard zone or reliable hard connected hydrants allowing uh 1500 gpm flow. So my question with that that's why I asked about water. I wanted to know how if how much water you would be using to cool this and and or and I'm not picking on you. I'm trying to educate myself. I'm just trying to learn from you two um on this is that you you need quite a bit of water to cool this and it's there seems to be a quite a concern that you have to have good water sources close by to be able to help if these things start on fire.

So, should we have a copy of that letter? It's in the It's in ours. It's in the fire. You could look in our packet that was on the board. So, uh, I'll reiterate the fire that most recently happened in New York, there was no water used during the response. Um, the amount that you're of water that you're describing is a a super large amount. Yes. On an island, that concerns me. Do you know in

we do our own water? um in the event that like water was required to respond to an emergency event. I'm not sure like h how much like uh water like how they came up with that number. I know that um the much larger battery fires that are probably in the magnitude of 200 times the size that we'd be proposing here. Yeah. May require

in respect. Yeah. And I understand all these can all be different and that it just I was that that I reason why I asked about the water is because I was trying to um and I'm same thing this is the first that I this the town has gone in tech at this project but when I had asked you about water respectfully I the feedback I got is we don't really need water we don't and we don't cool them because these fires aren't put with water. So that's why I'm and and your system could be one or whatnot. So that's why I was seeing what what you How did you get that? Right here. It's okay. Wait a second.

Are the water just loose? It's this. Yes, it's this. This this is the technical appendance appendance that they put. I'm sorry, Nor, G. dry hydrants and drafting station hydrants and drafting stations positioned outside of the hazard reliable connected hydrants allowing 1500 I I think think go ahead I'm sorry I was reading I think Eric I think everyone wants to make sure that right island safe but yet I don't don't feel we should make the law so stringent that you can't do something you can't invest your money here but that's my opinion yeah I think I mean I think we just learned that recently.

What um with the hunter's property, I think it's important that it's safety measures and yeah, it's still a a business as a business and whether you're in the battery business or you're in the storage business. Well, if they were land owners, I would probably agree with him. I I know I don't I didn't like that with the solar that this guy owns it the LLC's in California you know like I I was didn't feel like I didn't feel comfortable with that either but that's the way

it's not that but I think like safety governance is really important when it comes to the these systems and I think as we're looking at the law that's we shouldn't be building on on this or that we should be really looking as to what the safety is what the controls are and where where once we put that that form out as to where that could fit into our uh the town of Grand Island and the proper zones and go from there. I think it's a matter of deciding those factors before we would be looking at any individual property. Although I very much respect your guys feedback and I'm not and I know I'm being vocal but I'm not saying you know get out of town. No, we appreciate, you know, ease of opportunities and learning, but

sure. Do you have anything

855? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. I don't know what it means by that. A great question. We'll ask you flagging that also. Yeah, it's possible. Chemistry works and expelled, but actual testing show that aren't buddy for that to happen and it actually doesn't we probably use the same expert ESRG. Yes. So, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide. So listening systems

and the question about lithium ion batteries not being able to be put out by water. If you directly apply water to it, it can. The challenge comes is you have a cell within a pack within a tray within a cabinet. So everything is closed up and testing actually shows that it's hard to get it to go from one cell outside all the way to the out which is why operation distance is 10 ft from these units. I mean we're fine with whatever the code say but the fire code actually says you know within 10 ft you're good. Okay. So which is why water for I'm assuming you're just a five nugot community

where these ones just think of it as like five school buses are that's about how how big they are. Yeah. So if the area 30,000 gall insane so taking just taking all the info. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it because again everything is contained within the unit. That's why you don't open them. If there is a thermal event, you let it extinguish itself. And it typically happens within four to six hours that it extinguish itself. And you'll at most have a couple cells, not even the whole tray. Um that uh experiences a thermal event. Okay. I I understand what you're saying. So you guys aren't working on the same project?

No. So your project is where they're comparing the one by the way. Are you sure? By the way, it's from the solar farm web. So yours is owned by web and

web and where behind Dins's property. I think though we this board hasn't proposed any of those projects. So I don't think behind that property. So it would be by Yeah. So they go all the way to the throughway. His is over by his is the contract and the throughway over. Okay.

If I could just provide one more comment and it's it's the number one comment I wanted to provide. Um these are like nuance that's understandable. Um, and you guys seem to be doing like the best that you can to get information and and learn about these so that you could, you know, permit them and and decide what's safe for your community in the event that there is a code that allows, you know, it isn't overly prescriptive and allows like applicants like us to feel confident in submitting a package. U one of my comments was on the escro amount we would have. It's it's large. Yes. But um I think by giving us a pathway to like reasonably submit an application,

we have to provide funds in escrow for the town to hire consultants that are experts that could advise you on whether our projects meet, you know, snip test and and they would recommend special permit. Yeah. um the sooner that we have the pathway to apply, the sooner we provide those funds and the sooner that um you guys could like have those experts and should you still choose Yeah, we've we've done that with some previous projects that have come into the town. Um I I I'm leerary to say because the planning board hasn't received any of your proposals, right?

So I personally don't know what has been given to the town. It's a discussion that we know that and um it's nice to meet you, but there was two that were considering it. So, I don't want to direct any of our answers directly to your personal projects because we're Yeah. for us. Oh, no. Totally. Yeah. I get it. Totally get it. I just want you to remember too that we're looking at this as a core of the law and not when when you're saying, you know, on ours or if we could do this or ask and all that. We really we really I can give you my own, but as a board um that's not really that and I'm sure these two gentlemen agree with

um the industry is moving faster. The codes are well I don't have to. So the codes that we reference many cases don't cover what you're doing. All it really covers what you're doing is good engineering and good engineering practice because even NFPA and the New York State Fire Code do not address specifically what you guys are suggesting here and how you deal with it. I think engineers like my company are writing the codes that we're using for our customers and I'm sure your engineers are doing the same thing. I I believe the New York State Fire Code was updated recently to specifically address

it got close, but it didn't uh didn't do everything it should have because there's a legislative process that just takes too long and you guys are moving at warp speed. Politicians don't go that fast. They don't. Everybody good? If you could give him a copy. I only had the one of that last one. Oh, Casey, could you make copies? Yeah, Eric will get it to him. You can scan it and email it to him. Okay, moving on, folks.

Moving on to what we added for number four. Oh, yeah. Article 7. Yeah. So, this should be exact. Oh, no. We'll see. Oh, I thought you were talking. Norm's thing. I had no idea. No, Norm's thing was probably sub. Yeah. Okay. No, I was just I was just

Well, I just didn't have a chance and we already got Okay, Norm, you had uh Thanks guys for coming. I appreciate your time. You guys are both going to be on the 26th. Okay. Thank you. Take care. Uh number four, Norm, we want to discuss or make a motion on something on our last meeting on the settlement of the article 78 meeting about the article. You wanted to make a motion

back in December. We made a motion to file article 78 against the town board and it was passed unanimously by everybody. Um at the last meeting spoke a lot about it and felt that in forward we could work with the town board with their say guarantees but uh thought that going forward they you know could do better right. Um and I quite honestly Tom has done phenomenal. Okay. But we did not officially stop the, you know, moving forward with an article 78. Not as a board. Not as a board. And I think to do that for the record, nothing else. Okay. I agree. So I just came up with some language that Go ahead. Shoot.

U based upon recent discussions between members of the planning board and the town board. It was agreed that the town board would follow all applicable Grand Island bylaws and procedures going forward and that it was recognized that in the recent proceedings regarding the Gunrete PPD associations, town board did not follow proper procedure. An attempt to working together better going forward, I make a motion that we drop article 78 proceedings against the town board. Okay. Can we add the grass and maintenance law to that? Oh jeez. Well, you're mentioning the Gun Creek PDD. Well, I mean, that's what I think got this going. Well, it was both. Well, one and done the second,

but they discussed the the law and cutting the workshop. The workshop, so they're aware that they That is my motion and second. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? We agree with the wording on that. I think all in favor, Tom, does that sound fair enough? Yeah. Tom Tom has been knocking himself out. I mean, thank you, Tom. I I do appreciate it. I think we all I I'm going to speak for everyone. We all appreciate it.

Uh you you've been really supporting the planning board 110%. So, I appreciate that all of us. Okay. Communications. I'm going to say received and filed. Okay. Unfinished business. Okay. And Tom, jump in if I'm wrong here. According to the last workshop I watched about Dave's motion to resend the law, the MA grass and maintenance law I'm talking about. Uh the attorney said that it it was a legislative thing and you just don't resend them, you adjust them. So you don't take it away. You just make adjustments to what's already there because it's passed through the legislative.

You can't take the 17page document, say this no good, and rewrite it. Right? So, what you got to do is what we need to do is all of us come up with a list of what we didn't like in the grass and maintenance law for next meeting and then we can put that as a package together and send that off to the town board and then they can Haven't we already done that yet? I don't think we all made I think we did we had a talk we had a lot of talk tank but we never made like a list that says here's our recommendations. We had a lot of discussion did not

right they're looking for us to say why what's your reasons am I correct Tom am I following this right so it's because the the law that we passed a series of modifications to existing laws so it's going some of them some of them were new additions but the point was you we can't just go back and pull that chunk out we need to go through and either amen we can remove certain I think ultimately gets us where we want to go anyway and that's having an actual dialogue trying to fix it. The study had come up with a half a dozen things that were in the minutes November. Yeah. But we never as a Well, that would have been after that was after the

right. We never like formally said here's our motion the following A through Z. Yeah. And here's our points. Here's our motion. Here's our vote. You had a list. Norm had a list. We had a big talk tank, but we never formally sent the board anything. And if I'm understanding what I watched in the last workshop was that's what we need to do to see if the board will take our recommendations and amend the law. Now, they might they might not. They might take some, they might take none. That's up to them. My biggest issue again is there's no enforcement. Well, and you want to pass a law, we have to have somebody designated in the town that's going to go out with it.

We got to come up with it right now with tape measure and start measuring tape because you can't do just one. Write it down and it has to be equal. I mean, and that's the biggest issue in this community. We even talked about a fine true based enforcement is appropriate, but it's somebody calls in. I mean, we can choose to just hey, enforce laws that somebody neighbor calls in. But that to me is part of the problem. Like, I don't need my neighbor to not like me and know that they can mess with me by calling them. Well, that's exactly what's going to happen. Sets a bad Well, that just happened to Jim Dler.

He built some BMS or something. and I haven't seen him and he's not cut in the grass and the neighbor found the grass law on the somewhere and called in and complained. I would also add that sometimes we do go out and do everything we possibly can and the lawn still doesn't get cut right that was just that there is a reason we're not enforcing it equally to everybody. Sometimes we get to a roadblock and that's it. That's much we can do and the line is still not cut. I understand that. And I was yakking on my cell phone and I got stopped and I got a $200 fine and a mark on my license

and I've never talked on my cell phone again. If you want to show you probably your phone is so he said, "Is that a toy? Is that a toy?" You want to know if it was a toy that I had? Of course. code that cell phone had the antenna to plop. So, I mean, I understand that we want to go fix the situation, but do we really want the town board and the building department and the grass cutting business and the snow removal business? But no, we need But it's there now. We need to come up with some stuff, right? Some clean.

Okay. So, could everybody kind of come up with their their pet peeves and next meeting and we'll get something. Everybody should bring their list what they want. Does that sound fair enough, everyone? When's the last time we saw the Yeah, that's true. Motion to Yeah. When Yeah. What packet is that in the last draft of that law that they passed? Thank you. Who cares about the last one? Final one. So, can you email that all to us? Okay. So, everybody,

can we get that quickly though because we have to go through this by next month. Well, don't I don't want to I don't want to get it in March. Okay. Did we adjourn? No. Motion to adjurnn. Don't move. Well, I Oh, come on, Nor. One of my pet peeves is training. We always run out of things at the end of the year. We're trying to read these things over and over and how many times we've all read them. Just did something. So that would that covered us for last year though. That was and we always hear that we're going to get people in to talk to us about various subjects and it never seems to happen. I have both the attorney's office and engineering some

and and I was thinking it would be good to have somebody come in and talk to us about solar projects and well now projects now I was told that's not considered true training but it's something we're learning about right now I know planning we've been I've been here for what eight nine years I want to say and eight n I'll tell you afterwards and eight, nine years and we've always I mean we've had whoever come in and your firm came in I mean you weren't a registered training firm you know and it was all good good stuff Judy from the Cessor's office came in and

it's one thing to argue whether it's appropriate training or not training but right now we we can't even argue that because it's no training right we just had the one thing and that was it go ahead Whoever told you that, I would question how explicitly any training requirements surrounding planning boards would technically apply to a board that's only advisory and not a decision making body as many other planning board properties are. Tom, I am making this stuff up. I got I've got more things to do to make up stuff like this. I mean, just telling you what I was told, right?

I mean, even at this point, the presentation that Wendell did about the the water system. I mean, that was five, six years ago at this point. Yeah. We could redo that one. I mean, we'd be happy to come back and I mean, because there's so many new members that haven't heard that one. Um, I thought that was very good. Stuff I didn't even know. Yeah. I'm throwing that out for Yeah. And I think like this battery stuff and the solar stuff and even seeker even seeker to get us more well we did have a seeker one probably six eight years ago. Yeah, but

we did a webinar last year. Wasn't that seeker? So, seeker review was on federation something that you set up or I got if you want to do a single one that the attorney's office could do. I did like So, you will move forward on that. Give me ideas of topics. I'll find some. We'll take anything. But, all right. I'll reach out to them about something. Just Yeah. I mean, you just heard everything we were talking about. Yeah. We'll take anything you can give us. Would you guys like me to just continuously put one of those other packets in? No, we've done that. We've done them over and over. I just didn't know if something we're looking for something that's going to further our ability.

And once again, NFPP, we're still not getting the magazines or we're not getting the emails about the, you know, training sessions that are online that those are supposed to count. So that's why like you know like I yeah I I did like seven of them first on the board just on some things. I mean they're an hour so I'm at home I listen to them whatever while 12 to one. Yeah exactly. But we're not getting any information. Yeah. They give you the certificate and it's supposed to count towards your Did we pay our dues? I thought they paid the dues last year. Yeah. They paid the dues because they sent me one and I did it not knowing it wasn't sent out to all you guys. Yeah. They trooped it in the budget. Remember Tom, we talked about that was having issues paying.

So, did you pay or you did the I I got something and I did it and I got a certificate. I gave it to Kristen. I'll follow. Okay. So, maybe we're not getting the emails because if you did one this year, I just did one year. Send it to all of us. Arlene would send them all to Well, I don't know how it got sent to me. It's not on you, Kristen. No, you talked about how you were going to forward that to me. Right. Well, I haven't got another one, but I didn't realize I just thought, hey, Dave, and I thought all you guys got the same email. I didn't realize it was just to me. Okay. Motion to adjurnn.

So, move. Second by John. All in favor? Okay. I know. Let's turn off that recording thing. Do you want to talk to your high