Landmarks Commission - Regular Meeting

How you doing?

Okay. Alright. 6PM.

Here you go.

Mhmm. Hi. Okay. Good evening. I'm calling to order the city of Waukesha Landmarks Commission meeting for Wednesday, 05/07/2025. We'll start out with roll call. And Marty, if you would do us the favor.

Marty Larson.

Jennifer Wall. Matt Ratzak.

Carmen Delapaz.

I'd like to see. Aaron Spencer.

Perfect. And I'd like to welcome our new alder person that is joining us. So welcome. We're happy to have you here.

Thank you for that introduction. I'm glad to be here. Yay.

Sorry. Didn't see that talk.

And we're going to start out with a public comment for today. Come on up.

You know the drill. I do. Lisa Seub, 434 Madison Street. So since we have a new older person here, I just wanna give a little bit of background. In February, the state historic review board, took a look at the new nomination for the Blair House property.

It was for a boundary change, so therefore, an a new nomination, was sent in. And, they, decided eight to four, to not decrease the historic Blair property. So then, let me just go through here and make sure I got this right. Okay. So, then in March, I was informed by the the SHPO, which is the state historic preservation office, that they had received information that the mayor had appealed that state decision to the federal level, and that person, which is the is called the the keeper.

So the keeper is the one that reviews and makes the final decision on anything that was appealed at the state level. I did I went back and watched the minutes from the April meeting, and, it was not mentioned, in the the Landmarks April meeting. I don't know if you guys were sent an email, in regards to that had happened or not. So when we petition the keeper, what happens is there's an additional 30, which is added to the timeline that the keeper makes their final decision. When the city had, appealed, it's forty five days.

So, therefore, it their decision would have been required. I believe it was April 28, which meant there would be no additional time for the Landmarks Commission, which had already met in April, if they wanted to take any further action on that. So when we petitioned the keeper, that was accepted, so now that date has been extended an additional thirty days. So I had sent you an email, and that email had included information first from Rachel Labowitz, who is at the national level, and she's the one that oversees the state of Wisconsin. And she I had asked her, is the Landmarks Commission allowed to give their input on their thoughts of it being appealed at the state level?

And she said, yes. The, Landmarks Commission meeting minutes from May 7 or a letter from that commission may be sent to the keeper. I would suggest that those minutes or any letter be submitted as soon as possible after the May 7 meeting to allow for the keeper's full review. And then we had gotten the the keeper's name is Sherry. I believe it's Frear, f r e a r.

And so she sent me an email to acknowledge the receipt of our petition, and it's for a substantive review of the national register nomination for the William Blair House. So her decision is issued, and she says here, by May 26. So but, again, they want it sooner so they can go through all of this information, that we will be sending them and that anyone else wants to send them in regards, to this. So, I'm just letting you know that this is an option that's available to you. If the Landmarks Commission wanted to, you had sent an opposition letter to the state level.

If you wanted to send something to the national level, now you have that opportunity to do so. So I want just wanted to let you know about that and just give you the facts on that. And and one other thing that I wanted to let you know about is that the our property, the Blair House historic Blair House property got their our 2025 assessment. We were assessed in 2024 as well. The new assessment, our land value was decreased by 40%.

I called, and they said they decided that those unplanted lands, they're they're making changes to. So the value

of our land, this isn't the building, just the land, went from $1.35 7 to $81,000. And it's because they decided they're making changes to these old properties, that are unplanted and didn't belong to a subdivision. So I just wanted to share that information with you. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll have an opportunity to discuss all of this further later on in the agenda. All right. So, thank you, Lisa. Anybody else? Nobody else is in the room, so no more public comments. I'm looking for, approval of minutes, Item25Dash00793, the minutes of 04/02/2025, and I will take a motion.

Steve will make a motion. Approve the minutes.

Second.

I'll second it. Yes.

You were here last?

I looked at the me minutes.

Yeah. I have

to get caught up.

Okay. So he can even though he wasn't here, he can

That is

You would have to watch the the video to know if the minutes were correct.

You know, that is a very good point. I read the agenda. I did not you are correct.

It it is allowed to to vote on the minutes if you weren't there. It's

Okay. Normally, we say absent because if we're not there.

So That's a thing that landmark commissioners have typically done, but it is allowed to

vote on. Okay.

I'm just Thank you. I withdraw my motion Okay. For obvious reasons. Thank you.

Great. I think that he could make the motion, and then it's up to you if you want to abstain or not. But we will take another motion just so that we're clear.

I'll take

I will I will make a original motion on this then.

Perfect. And who wants to second it? Second. Second from Jennifer. Thank you. We'll take that to vote.

Aye.

Votes. Okay. Marty?

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Like Christine Wolffstein. Aye.

The meeting minutes for last month have been approved. And now we're going to move on to the Landmarks Commission Paint and Repair grant funds, and Charlie is going to bring us up to speed.

All right. As you know, if we could get the thing up, paint and repair grants are typically approved at on an increasing scale, roughly 15% of the cost of a project up to a maximum of $3,000 Landmark Commission may use discretion to change award amounts based on project scope, overall impact, fund availability and any other circumstances. We expect 2025 Paint and Repair Grant Fund to be 25,000 But as of right now, we still do not have the contract for that. And at the advice of the our paint and repair our CDBG coordinators at the county, we are not putting any paint and repair grants on the agenda until that contract is signed. They do expect that we will get the full amount based on what they've heard from the federal government.

And they do expect as of the last time that I had spoken to them, they had hoped that we would get it sometime in May. So hopefully, we will be able to award paint repair grants in at the June meeting. We do have, I think, three that have come in that we've just kind of put on hold. So we'll go back and put those on the agenda if and we do get the contract. We, as of this moment, have $2,850 leftover from twenty twenty four projects that had not been completed yet.

But I received an invoice for the larger of those two grants this afternoon. So that will be sent out to the grantee as of the end of next week. And that'll be down to, I think, it's about $250 was the the other grant. So that that other one, I I will certainly call the the grantee again to find out if he's is able to provide an invoice for it. So again, there's 25,000 available as soon as we get the contract.

Perfect.

Okay. So thank you. We're moving on to new business. Item number 25Dash00794, Landmark's Commission certificate of appropriateness for 301 Windsor Drive. We're gonna review a request to replace the roof and two windows and to tuck point the siding. This is the Cables Park Historic District.

Alright. And on this one, the applicant had called today, and he told me that his work schedule changed unexpectedly. And between that and having to pick up his kid, he's not able to able to be here tonight. He asked me to try to represent him as best as I can. This is 301 Windsor Drive. It's at the corner of Windsor And South Charles Street, and it's sort of in the heart of the Caples Park Historic District. It is the Cahill House. It was built in 1928 and has English revival style architecture. And they'd like to do a number of different things to the house. First, they'd like to replace two basement windows.

As you might remember, previous owner had come in for a certificate of appropriateness for replacing all of the upper storey windows over a period of years. The house has been sold, and there are two windows which are remaining. One of them is this is from the sidewalk, so there's quite a bit of a setback for this house. So this is the view of the basement window that's in a window well. So you can just see the top over the edge.

This is a zoom in of that particular window. And then the other window is on the west side of the house facing towards South Charles Street. It's right in this well that's circled there. So it's the street the sidewalk, this is pictures from the sidewalk. It goes down at a steeper angle than the obviously, the house is graded on a flat grade there.

So there's a retaining wall. So the spot where the window well is, is even less visible there even though it's closer to the street. I had to actually walk up onto their onto the the sidewalk outside directly above the window to get this picture. The window replacement that they're proposing is a vinyl casement window. So it is not obviously consistent with what would normally be approved.

But in this case, they're requesting that it be approved because of the very limited visibility of the window. So that's this Seaway Commander series casement window in white color, which is, again, a UPVC vinyl multi chambered sashes and frames. They would also like to replace the roof. And they have stated that they would like to replace the roof to as closely match the existing roof as possible. The quote that they have from the contractor is for true definition duration designer shingles.

So as you are probably familiar with, the True Definition Duration shingles have been approved for many roofs in the historic districts. The tree definition designer windows typically are the standard that would not be approved. They're above the they have the heavier shadow line and the standard is for shingles with a slight shadow line. In speaking with the applicant, he had told me that basically, had had the discussion with his contractor and the contractor thought that those that style was wood matte would be as close of a match as possible. But he's not he doesn't have strong feelings about it.

He just wants something to be approved basically.

The

we did have for this particular house, the Landmark Commission did previously approve a roof replacement with the higher definition shingles for a previous owner. And the previous owner had kind of made the case that would have been more consistent with the original shingles based on there was another house in the historic district that's just kiddie corner from this one that has the historic cedar shake windows or shingles that are more closely resemble the higher definition ones. So in this case, it would the landmark assumption could approve those in this case than has in the past. So again, this is replacing the basement windows. Pro's windows are Seaway Commander casement windows, which are vinyl replacing the roof.

Pro's shingles are Owens Corning Duration Designer to match the existing colors and then tuckpointing the masonry sections, which I did not mention before. And of course, the new mortar must match the hardness and texture of existing mortar and must match the color as closely as possible. And in this case, the applicant had checked on the application that he would like to plans to apply for historic preservation tax credits. So if you want to approve it as it is, since this isn't a slam dunk what they would normally approve, it seems like it would be a good idea to determine whether if the historic preservation tax credits require him to make changes to his plans, if he has to come back to have those approved again. Or if he can just go ahead with that approval.

Okay. Does anybody have any questions?

Yes, I do. I'm confused. Charlie, I think I remember approving those other shingles, but that wasn't that long ago. Did that person not go ahead and do the work or what happened?

Yes. It looks like he had not replaced the roof and ended up selling the house and moving.

So he sold the property instead?

Yeah.

So the shingles that are being requested now are the same or very similar to the ones we approved at that last meeting?

Yeah. They they were the higher the more distinct shadow line that I guess he had made the case that this particular historic district, it's newer than some of the the McCall Street Historic District is from 1890. Those would have been the wood the old wood shingles, whereas in this one, it would have been cedar shake instead. And that the higher the more definition shadow line is more consistent with the cedar shake shingle. So that's what he wanted to go up.

Do you know the date of that, that approval?

I believe that was 2023. 2023? Yeah. That it was either two or three years ago.

I've I remember it as well. And it and I remember having the discussion about the the high def. And I think I think the color was more in line with the cedar shake wood color. The image that was on the screen, I mean, almost looked like a slate imitation that multicolored seemed very busy.

Are you talking about this element?

No. The new proposed roof. And I don't know if that's the color they're thinking or not.

That was just what I got off the

I see.

Website. So

Yeah. I I I think we had a sample or an exact choice last time that that wasn't that, you know, brown wood looking family. And with a higher def, you know, I I I think that makes sense as a, you know, wood shake imitation, cedar shake imitation, but multicolored would not be, I I think, desirable.

I think that we should have them for sure give staff a sample so that you guys could approve it and see it just to double make sure because they could say something and then it ends up being something else. So that if we do go ahead and approve this, we would I would recommend that you guys have just a second

look. Yes.

I have two comments. The first one on the window, particularly on that sunken one looked like on the north side of the property. I highly recommend that good quality vinyl only because it is a raised centerline basically that I can't believe. I'm surprised if that thing's not damp all the time. I'm surprised it looked like a original wood window down there.

I can't imagine that's anything left of that from the homes I've owned. But particularly on the North Side, I really recommend a vinyl type product for both those two windows. And also since we're requesting some samples, maybe even some color of tuck point, it's basically we're asking them to on your honor to match that. But if they're gonna provide some samples, it's probably real easy to say, oh, tuck point brick fifty six forty two or whatever that is. Long as we're asking for samples, we might as well do Mhmm. The tuck point as well to help speed things up.

Yeah. And in this case, because they are basement windows and they're hardly visible, I'm totally good with vinyl because it's like, make them put something in that's not gonna last as long?

It's better than glass block.

Totally. Yeah. And and and, you know, and you're right. Where it's positioned, it's just receipt. It's a waterfall there, I would imagine. And so I I have, just for the record, I have no problem with breaking that rule for for vinyl. And I think that if they're going to go for historic preservation tax credits, that will be the double check for everything that we're doing. And if they're gonna get a hard time, they're gonna get it there.

Oh. Mhmm.

And I know from RDA side of things, is this I know there's the downtown district, but also there is a business district. I don't know if this is located in that area. There is special money set aside from RDA for roofs as well.

Would that be it was at the the affordable housing rehab loans?

Yes. It was leftover ARPA funds that got rolled over. They can they if they're in that not only the downtown, but the downtown district, there's extra loans available for projects of this scope, windows and a roof, because I know some people have gone through RDA before with such a request.

Okay. Yeah. The Cables Park Historic District is not eligible for paint repair grants because they're unfortunately, they're outside of the low to moderate income census tract. But yes, they certainly would be eligible for the affordable housing rehab loans. And I'll talk to Jeff and make sure if they're eligible for any additional ARPA money that we'd

make them aware of that.

Does anybody else have any or comments, concerns? Charlie,

could you bring up the pictures of the basement windows there, So on this one here, what are the replacement colors of the new ones? Are they going to be white? Yeah. So this one is not noticeable because it's black. And then you have the front one that has the slats in it. And that's also not getting replaced with the slats that match the windows up above. So is there a concern there as far as matching? I wanna ask my other commissioners what they think of that.

Will that one be styled in with the same panes? Or do you know if it's just gonna be

It looks like the the quote that we have, I think, is for it's just casement windows. So it doesn't it doesn't show styled pants. Guess that's something that you could require certainly.

And I don't know what would be better or worse, but if there was a grid with a vinyl, it's probably between the glass and the other grids are outside of the glass and those two different styles right next to each other. Is that more of an objection than no grids at all?

I'm not sure. Yes, I'm just not sure. I know we don't like to take away from it usually once you know there's a full replacement we try to restore it to its original being there. And then if on the roofing as well if they're just looking for an approval on the previous owner that made a request before for different types of shingles. Why don't we try to sway more towards the what a traditional landmark shingle would be then in this case, you know, trying to make it right?

Mhmm. Well, I think that that they're I agree we should do that, but I also know that they'll get pushed back on it from the historic preservation probably because they don't want that.

Right. So just a couple of thoughts here.

What do you think, Charlie? Charlie?

I guess it's hard to predict what the historic preservation, what the architect at the state will do because they do look at everything individually. They have those standards that they publish that they're recommending that are followed. But they might look at it in this case and say, yes, this shake would have been consistent with the original. So they might they could I could see it going either way, I

All right. So either we can either probe and ask for more information to come back with more specifics. Or we can give it to the staff for further approval. Or however you guys want to tell you guys as a commission what would you like to do.

It would have been a little easier if the homeowner I think was here and we were able to discuss what possible changes they could make and work out with us to make it a little bit more original. As of right now, we're probably have that discussion with staff and the homeowner.

Do you know when they're planning to do this work?

He said he wanted to get it started as soon as possible.

My comment is it is springtime. If this was late October, we would have a shorter window to do these projects. But since it is springtime, he does have a little time, but that's just my input is that. It'd be nice if we could go if it was as little far back as '23, it'd be nice to see what we approved then. That would be helpful as well.

So why don't we do this? Why don't we get pulled back up for the next meeting, the 2023 approval parameters, so we know where we left off? Everybody knows where we left off. And we ask the homeowner to please be here for the next meeting so that we can ask pertinent questions such as this. And apologize for the delay, but he still got the full rest of the summer. That fair?

Yeah. I mean, I I think, I guess, in the position of advocating for him, I I think he would it might be a little easier if you could approve something with conditions. And then if he doesn't like the conditions, could come back. But if you want to do it that way, that's certainly your decision.

I'm open to whatever you I'm just making a suggestion. I'm happy to hear other options. I'll jump at once.

Yeah. I'm not trying to be

a sole commissioner here.

We're fine on the windows and the top pointing is the roof. That's what I understand. Or we are not fine on the windows?

Well, they are all different. They're both different windows, two different colors, two like I said two different types of windows and we're going with a standard vinyl window where we've not approved it for even less on other houses. So I think if could if the staff could communicate it to the homeowner of some of the concerns and, come back with a few more solutions as in, okay, there's these type of different windows and other landmark acceptable type of shingles. If he's just looking for a quick approval on that, and then we can get them set up and ready to go.

And really stress that we're not opposed to a quick approval. We just aren't sure what we're approving. You know what I mean? Yes.

If I can just give a quick public comment. I think a quick call to the, the tax credit people will give you your answers. When we had applied, they at that point, you had to have three tab shingles, and if you didn't do that, you weren't getting the tax credits. So a quick call would let you know if they would allow the vinyl. If that was an original well, which a lot of the houses had back in the day, they may require, that it be a wood window. But if it's something that was put in possibly for egress, then maybe they don't care. But that could answer stuff really quick, I think, if they really want the tax credits.

Thanks.

No, I agree. And I think that that's what I said earlier is I think that the historic, well no, there's two different things. Forget it. But either way, they're gonna get double checked. So I I think at the end of the day, is everybody okay with just telling the homeowner that they need to come up with more solid information and we would feel easier with making these decisions. Bear?

Do we have to motion?

Do we have to motion, Charlie?

You don't have to. You certainly can.

It would be preferred. Okay.

Okay. Well, let's do the preferential. I'm looking for a motion.

I motion to hold this COA twenty five zero zero seven nine four till next month, May.

Second that motion. Yeah.

June. Excuse me. June.

It is May. Right?

Perfect. We have a second.

I'll vote according to based on I'm agreeing with this based on the early in the construction season. I would be trying to speed up the process a little bit if it was later in the season, but since it's still technically spring in Wisconsin, we still have some time. So I will approve this.

Freddie?

Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Perfect. Thanks, Charlie.

Alright.

So moving on to number 25Dash00798, review and possible comment on the architecture history investigation of the Waukesha Water Utility Facility at 1430 Southeast Avenue, 2320 West Sunset Drive, and 223 Southwest Avenue.

Alright. So as as you know, Waukesha has transitioned to using Lake Michigan water, which is piped from Milwaukee. So the water utility no longer has a need for some of its wells that had previously been used, the deep wells. So they would like to decommission the wells and basically cap them off and sell the properties for redevelopment. They have applied for an EPA grant to help fund the decommissioning.

And as part of that, there's something called the Section 106 review, which is a it's at the federal level for any federal permit that involves property that may be, you know, that basically anything that's old enough that it could be considered historic. They have to have an investigation. The investigation found that it is it was basically worthy of surveying. It reached it met the criteria for that, which is that it that it was relatively intact and that it was from a time period that was more than 50 years old. So the city did have a its historic preservation consultant provide a report on the eligibility for National Register status for those three properties.

And it was found that they are not eligible. That was the finding of the report. And then they sent it to the SHPO reviewers, and they responded to concur that they feel that it is also not eligible. There is as part of that process, there's a standard request for comment that always goes out to both any local historic commission and local historical society. So it went to the Waukesha County Historical Society and then also to it went to me to go to you.

I get these fairly frequently most of the time, therefore, like a cell tower being added a mile and a half from any historic property. So I can just on my own initiative just say no comments. There's nothing that is remotely historic. In this case, since it is city owned and since there are buildings, I thought that it was most appropriate to bring it to you to determine whether there is any whether the Landmark Commission does have any comment. So again, this is three properties, 2320 West Sunset Drive, 1430 Southeast Avenue and 223 Southwest Avenue.

First one, this is 1430 Southeast Avenue. This is just to the south of the President's Plaza Strip Mall. It's a large concrete well structure and then two utilitarian storage buildings that was built the three buildings were built between 1953 and 1956. And the second one is at 2320 West Sunset Drive. And that's so that's adjacent to former Fox what was that?

What was the hospital?

Yes, the hospital that had replaced the Fox Run shopping center that's now closed. So and that's very similar large concrete well structure, the reservoir and well and then these similar utilitarian buildings. And then the third location is and it's described as an astylistic utilitarian building. It's just been used for storage. It was originally constructed in 1930.

And this is on a very small lot right adjacent to Southwest Avenue. This is the only one that is closer than I think the other ones were almost in my aisle from any historic property. This one is about 600 feet to the south of one historic property, which I do not have the name of and what I have written here. It's at the corner of College And West. This is a very small property, which based on what I can see has very limited redevelopment potential to even put a single family home there would require definitely require a variance at least.

So then and again, the building there is an astylistic utilitarian building, and this is the appearance. So the recommendation is that the Landmark Commission have no comment, but I wanted to bring it forward in case you did choose to comment.

Yes. Right? I

think we agree. Oh, here are the comments.

Yeah. That's fine. We'll just do we vote for that?

If you want to, you can. If you don't want to, you don't have to.

I just say no comment. We're good with it. Thank you.

I appreciate your transparency though.

That's that was huge.

Thank you.

Good to know for sure. Now if I could make it a wood shop. Alright. Number 25Dash00795, update and possible action on the application to adjust the boundaries for the individual national register listing for the senator William and Henrietta Blairhouse.

Alright. So the city did appeal the Wisconsin Historic Preservation Review Board's decision to the keeper of the National Register. And that appeal is possible because the state historic preservation officer had recommended approval of the boundary decrease. So that's the again, the city staff recommendation was approval, and so was the state recommendation. The letter that the Landmark Commission sent was forwarded on to to the National Register, to the keeper of the National Register along with all of the other correspondence that the State Historic Preservation Review Board received, and they have confirmed that.

They've sent us what they sent to the state, and that was it was included. So your input has been heard on that. We have not provided the input in the past because it's not it wasn't our understanding that there is any requirement for further input, that there's any reason for it. I will give future updates if the Landmark Exhibition input is needed. But at this point, giving on every step of the project and wouldn't expect to be giving

them

on

a monthly basis. As far as whether to make any further comments, I want to recommend in the strongest possible terms that you do not make any further comment. Again, the landmark submissions letter has been forwarded to the keeper of the National Register. Your your statement on the project has been heard. And this is not a recommendation because I have any worry about changing the keeper of the national registers of decision.

It really is more about the Landmarks Commission's relationship with the council, with the city. And all of you need to recognize that the Landmarks Commission is not an independent board. You are created by the council to advise the council and to make decisions on historic preservation. But the do you there's a limit to the amount of activism that you can do as a as a board. And the statements that had that landmark commission has made up to this point have gone right up to that limit.

It is my sincere opinion that the any further statements on this subject will cross the line. So that is my recommendation. That is coming from as a person who also cares about what the Landmark Commission does and does not want to see any further any further harm done to the Landmark's Mission standing with the city.

Thank you for your candor. Does anybody have any comments at this point? Questions?

I have a question, and it's just a technical question. You know, legally, there are generally two kinds of reviews. One is a review on the record, and the other is a substantive review where you can submit more additional information. Is this strictly a review on the record where they're just taking a look at what was previously provided? Or has the city or anyone else been given the opportunity to make additional input to that previous record?

My understanding is that it was basically they forwarded the information from the from the SHPO along with the request from the city. I I don't know what the if there has been a change to the the standard of the review as a result of the petition that was made. I can't tell you that. So

Are they going to have a hearing or are they just No. Gonna There's not a hearing. They're just gonna meet and review everything.

Yeah.

Okay. And then my other question is, does our new alderperson member have any comments for us on this?

I do. I've spoke publicly about this several times. And to the sobs, I did not get your email. So in the future, please include me. Now I'm on landmarks.

I've spoken about this, and basically, my view in on the council side of things, was we viewed it as a parking lot, not an overall area, including the the white stone building east of there. So council wise, we viewed it as a parking lot. Now regardless if the parking lot is historic or not or has any historic significance, we viewed it now. I'm not I'm representing me, and this is what I spoke on in in public comments that I was viewing it as a parking lot at the time. You guys talked about it, reviewed it, went to it, and I do believe we voted on this at least twice.

And that was my comment on that. So I just basically repeated what I said in common counsel. Did I answer your question on that?

Sure.

Okay. I tried answering. If he certainly has any questions, you can ask me.

Well, when you were saying you viewed it as a parking lot, I assume then you were in favor of the boundary reduction. Is that correct?

I was basing my comments last month and the month before that based on what city staff has recommended to us or not recommended, but presented to that. The actual definition of what the keeper, I do believe, called it and various other entities that we're sending the recommendation to, I'm gonna review again what staff said and take staff's recommendation on that based on I know once it does go to common council based on the numbers of councilmen and women, all the persons voted on it, I don't think that's gonna sway their vote. Does that does that give you more clarity? Sure. Okay.

I'm trying not to be disappointing. But I've I've those are my comments that I said in the past, and I have to be consistent on that. Unless I've given more information that would change that. Right now, I don't have more information on that.

Above or beyond? Yes.

Just to, to Lisa Sellb, fourth third of her Madison Street. To Mike's comment, I sent the email out on Monday. In April, Elizabeth Moulton was, assigned to your seat, and it was just last night that we found out that there was this change. So, and she had recused herself from from this topic, so that's why I didn't send it to her. But in the future, I will definitely send things your way.

Thank you.

I I think above and beyond, like, above and beyond anything in the future, my question to us as a commission, because we've already had our information and our letter of our position already forwarded and stated, is there or would there be anything above and beyond what we have already stated that we really wanna say? Again, I I feel that we've already positioned ourselves. We've made our opinion. It's been forwarded forwardedededededed. And I just don't know what else we could say that would be above and beyond or more.

I don't know. That's my question.

And I think that's probably true, Carmen. You know, I mean, it start feeling like, who was it? Horton the elephant? I meant what I said and I said what I meant.

Right.

Will we say it again?

So So, you know, it's and and I thank you again, Jennifer, for writing it. And I think it was solid. And as long as I am guaranteed as a commission chair that that was included and forwarded, you know, that I feel is a strong statement, and our position is has been stated. And the same thing, you know, we we bottom line, the city is a business and it's being run like a business. And to a certain extent, we can state our opinion, but just like the more MUD's hotel, what's going to be done for the business is going to be done for the business.

And I know that's difficult for the Salves to hear. And I wish that I could think of something else that could be said, but I really feel like everything that we have said, Jennifer positioned it really well. I signed it. We all agreed with it. It has been forwarded. Yes.

And just going forward, I know I'm a new member of the team here, but I can separate myself from all my other committees that I am and also elected official as alder. I just I had to state what I've said the last over the last three, four months on this. Like, I couldn't change anything, so that's why it was basic. But going forward, if there's any new material, I can separate myself from Alder and focus on what we have here in our mission. I certainly believe in our mission.

We have beautiful things all over the city. My wife and I still drive around and look at houses, how they're decorated and stuff like that. And your awards you gave up last night, you know, really reenergized. I'm very proud to be on this commission. Going forward, I'm not here to battle anybody, but I just wanted to make that statement.

I respect you for sticking to what you said, and and and that to me is what we need for balance in in any commission. You know? So I I'm gonna stick by my guns when I gotta pull the guns. And right now, I feel like I need to lay my gun down to a certain extent, and this is where we are.

Thoughts? Yep. I I understand that we're at the will of the council. It's just it's hard for us to do our job if we don't know what the council's doing and probably vice versa.

Right.

You know? So, you know, obviously, it was brought up and it was taken, I think because, at least, since we gave our opinion and the opinion wasn't the opinion of the city, that if the city wanted to go ahead and go to a higher level, that is fine. We've set our our peace. But letting us know that it's being done just would be appreciated by the council members here because we're sitting here, and then all of a sudden, we find out it went to the federal and the federal changed it all out, and it was like, oh.

Right. No. And that's exactly why I asked for it to be put in the agenda with possible, action. I don't. I can't think of what that action would be, but I do feel like we at least should be given that opportunity. And and I think that that's the bigger statement here, is just to please continue to regardless of if we disagree in the past, we're still in a relationship and marriages are based on disagreements. So, you know yeah.

We did have I'm not saying a larger turnover of council, but there is a lot of new council members as well. And there are many things that you guys have brought to us in my last four years here that, you know, we approved and agreed on almost almost all the time unanimously. Sometimes it's 11 to four or something like that. But I just basically, council is willing to work with you and just reach out to whoever your alder is. I'm assuming not everyone lives in the city, walk.

So I reach out to your alder and certainly give your opinions on what do you know, we can base our decisions, not only what comes on the agenda, but actual our constituents and and residents of the city of Waukesha. And when More Downs was going on, I was getting five, six phone calls a day and probably twenty twenty, 30 emails a week. So there is other ways to reach counsel on that.

Great. Thank you. Does anybody else have anything else to say? We decide to not do any further action? Unanimously, yes.

Charlie, as long as you guarantee me that that letter's already sent.

It it absolutely has, ma'am.

That's all we care about. That's all we can do, and I thank you for that.

Yep. Council wise, I was not even aware of that letter going out. I don't remember seeing any emails on that. Perhaps there was, but I am new to the email list. So thank you.

Great. Okay. So we're going to move on to the Alderman report. Do you have a report? Anything to report?

Not at this time. Beth filled me in with a little bit. I had a couple nice conversations with Charlie. Thank you for welcoming to the team. I don't have anything to report right now. And I just thank Beth and Cassie Rodriguez. I know she served this council very, very well, and I I wish still Cassie was still around as alder. She's a great alder, she certainly worked well with you guys. And that was the other thing is, hopefully, I can bring some things to this, to the common council just like Cassie and Beth did in the past. So hoping to work with you guys and counsel.

Perfect. Thank you.

I was gonna say before you're done, could you give us a little, you know, like, who do you what area do you represent and what your background is so that

I've lived on the North Side Of Waukesha, District 1, pretty much for the last thirty years. There's two years my wife finished her degree up in u w w Walker Green Bay. Excuse me. So we bought my wife's grandma's historic home in a historic neighborhood, in historic Holloway. So it was on the famous plat up in Holloway. So I did own a historic home, but in fact, the entire area is still pretty much historic because it is unchanged. I've been in the city of Waukesha for a long time. Three of my kids went through here in historic Saint Mary's. But my background and passion is buildings. I lived in many, many old homes.

Really, the neatest one I lived in was built by some Germans in 1875. That was a parsonage off a a church, and everything was still original even up until they moved it. It was such a nice building. They actually moved it. I love cisterns. I think cisterns should come back. That's a great way to save water. But my professionally, what I do is I run Milwaukee's largest homeless shelter for the Salvation Army. I teach truck driving at WCTC, and I've managed properties as a supervisor for the last thirty years. I've been on Waukesha Catholic.

Now they're all combined, but I've been on their buildings and grounds. And everything we do on buildings and grounds, we take take the historic things into place. That's why I'm pretty good with tuck pointing and windows and stained glass and roofs. And I'm I feel I'm very good. We'll serve this committee very well about what needs to be done, what can be done versus what materials and scientific advancements in building materials. So I can balance all those things and make comments on that from roofing materials all the way down to foundations. So I can answer any more questions on that as well. Great.

Wonderful. Thank you.

Moving on to the springs report.

The only update that I have is having gone out and results of And And And still with working with the parks department to try and figure out what that might be at Hobo. There's some leaves that were basically, Hobo Spring was flooded all winter, it looks like. So there's a lot of dead leaves that are kind of rotted in the basin that's happened in the past. So that needs to be cleaned out. The only other work that needed to be done was is a little bit of cleaning out that. Then second

year,

And cleanup this spring for with volunteers. And the yeah, I guess that's all I have for the Springs report.

One of I've been active in local Boy Scout troop one hundred fifty nine for the last twenty years or so, and one of our Eagle Scout projects was Hobo Springs. I was working with alderwoman Cassie Rodriguez on that. My Scout troop will clean up Hobo Springs area.

Great. Thank you.

They don't know it yet, but even if I have to do it myself.

Awesome. Thank you. Communications and publications. Anybody have anything?

Communications? I don't I don't know. It's just a thought process. Obviously, have historic buildings in Waukesha. Signage for those buildings, is there any standard? Or if somebody so, like, Saint since I go to Saint Joe's, and we wanted to put a sign out there that put a little bit of history of Saint Joe's on it and its historic building number blank and blank. I mean, is there any parameters or anybody that we the city has used before that we should go to and say they know how to put that together?

We as far as, like, signed permits, there isn't really there certainly, like, a historic marker would not be considered a sign. So you wouldn't have to get a sign permit or be within the sign permit standards. Typically, in the past, what's been done is I think the historical society donated a bunch of those historical markers throughout the city. And they just they put them together and they put the wording together. And then I donated them.

All of them are kind of freestanding, so they're not on the buildings themselves. I know the Landmarks Commission had like plaques that went on the houses for some of the individual local landmarks. We still have a few of them, but I think they're for landmarks that were never designated. It's like landmark number 40. So but I don't know if we still would have one for, for instance, for St. Joseph's or for

What he's talking about is a style guide.

Right.

You're looking for a style guide for signage, for historic signage.

Because we're we're right next to the courthouse. You know? So if people are coming to visit and they're wandering downtown, you know, if they see a same style, they understand right away this is a historic thing.

Don't do we does the city have a style guide for things like that? Do you know?

No. Not a there's a little bit more in terms of the sign code, there's a little bit more it's a little more prescriptive about what can be done in the downtown area than it is for the rest of the city. But it's not specific to historic buildings. It's we basically, the way the federal government has ruled on sign regulations, we have to be really, really careful about making any regulation that has to do with content of signs. And that that

I'm talking style guide is font, size

Yeah. You

know, colors. Material. Materials.

Yeah.

You know, like specs for

you know

what I'm saying?

Yeah. We don't have any anything like that.

How do we do that?

Put something together in terms of a voluntary guide? Is that

We have a we have an answer down here.

We did the same thing at Saint Mary's, and I approved it. Basically, it was a parishioner that wanted to do it, and the parishioner pretty much paid for everything. We disapproved it. They contacted both the state and the national as far what it should look like. And it's you know, they brought it to us and said, hey, you know, that looks great. And then since they were taking care of all that, we disapproved that it's on the Hartwell side of the new North I guess, the new North X. So I can get you the name of the person that did that if you wish. But that's how we did it at Saint Mary's, I'm assuming something very similar could happen at Saint Joe's. There wasn't any as soon as you looked at it, you said, oh, I recognize that style and that font. That's hopefully answers a couple questions on there.

Yeah. And I'm just because I'd like to encourage other historic places if we wanna be walkable and bike lanes that it's something for people to stop and look and get educated because if you don't educate, they tend to forget. So I just

don't know. We as a commission I'm willing. Let me get past I've got five commissions on my plate right now.

Only five?

Yeah. Four will be done by Friday. But then I'm doing the one for the park. But I in between that, I I would love to over this summer, I'm happy to take on creating a style guide for the city and just I mean, we do it for magazines and all the layout. You know, it's like, this is the font. These are the colors, this is the and the city pretty much has color selected. The city pretty much is consistent with certain fonts that we need to come up with. So let's just put that on the back burner. I volunteered to do that and I will get back to us on how we might be able to proceed. Deal?

Great. Thank you for doing that.

My pleasure. Thank you. Okay? Just another thing. No. It's a pleasure. And and it's in it's my wheelhouse, so it's not a problem. Okay. Anybody else have any other comments, concerns, editorials?

The only thing that I have is you might notice there's some some yeah, in in the landmark

and Basically, display

Rebecca Peterson, the she's the director of communications and engagement. She was looking for a place to put the to put all those items. And she asked if if she could put them there since it wasn't being used. She said if if the Landmark Commission wants to use it for something else or just doesn't like them there, she's perfectly happy to remove them.

No. We'll leave it there for for another month or so till till I get past some things, and I will get back to putting the tile project in there. Okay. Deal? Alrighty. So this meeting is adjourned. Thank you everybody.