City Council - Regular Meeting

We're good. Good evening. Welcome to our city council meeting for Wednesday, December 10th. We appreciate everybody being here. Probably one of the biggest crowds we've had

in a while. So, welcome. We appreciate you being here and being a part of this process tonight. Uh we're going to start tonight with the Pledge of Allegiance by Katie Kisaw. [snorts] Hope I'm saying that right. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Katie. Okay, we're going to move on to item 4.2, city council comments and recognitions. Anything from council tonight? I will re I will compliment staff on night of lights. Absolutely unbelievable event. Crowds packed inside, outside. Just every year that event seems to get better. So, a [snorts] few thousand people out here. So, we appreciate our staff, volunteers, everybody that made that happen that night. So, so thank you for that. Anything else from council, okay, we're going to go to item 4.3 tonight. So, tonight we are going to we've got a special recognition tonight. Um, [snorts] Council Member Orange Sherry here has served on the city council now for eight years. um decided not to run again [snorts] this year. Um we appreciate Sherry's service. I'm not going to get too much into it. I'm going to let everybody else kind of say some. We've got some stuff. Do you want to

No. Kleenex. You got the Kleenexes. I'm going to let everybody kind of on council take a minute and Jared, I'll start down with you and just if you guys want to take a minute. I got to go last. You're going last. Tara, do you want to go?

Sure. um I haven't worked for a really long time with you, but um what I have really appreciated about council council member Orin is her passion for um freedom and just watching her work with the youth council and talk about that and talk about the importance of the flag and the importance of our country. Um I think that's been really neat for me to see. and then your dedication to your role and um and just being there and doing what you all you can to represent um your district and work for our city as a whole. Thank you.

Uh Miss Sherry, I do want to uh share my appreciation for you. The last four years has been wonderful. You've taught me more about our duties in this role than any other member of the council that I've worked with. um including the mayor as we both came in as freshman as you're starting your second season and um through even the toughest disagreements or the toughest times when we don't agree on topics and perspectives we having that conversation and ability to work through those um and having that dialogue to be able to come back and be like okay we don't agree but it's the right thing for the city and we're moving forward and then your role on the youth council and the water board and uh wash that front recycling. It's it's all been for the good of the city and your what you've implemented in those areas and what you're doing um with the youth and and our next generation is just going to be tremendous and I I applaud you for that and uh thank you for the last four years and I know the four years before that was just as much impactful on them. So, thank you. I don't know if I can.

The tissues. I I always bring my own. I even told my wife before I came tonight. I'm like, I don't want to go tonight just just for this. I'm like, I I've just been avoiding thinking about it. Anytime I do, I start tearing up. Gosh. [laughter]

He's not a robot. Oh man. Um, have to like dig into my leg or something. Have the pain override it. But I can't even describe like how important you've been not just to me but to the city. Like people really will never understand. Um, and [snorts] I can't believe this much time has gone by. It seems like a long time, but then it doesn't at the same time. Right. So, in in in my time here, I I would say not just this city, but every other city I've been involved with, every other um [snorts] say political person that I've that I've talked to, I don't view this as politics, and you're one of the only other people I've met that views that the same way, [snorts] right? that you do everything from a place of principle and conviction [sighs] and complete representation of the people that you truly serve versus a lot of people who go seem to stray away from that. [snorts] And for me, I mean, I kind of going forward are as far as the city business goes, there's a lot of important things to do. I don't want anybody to take this what I'm about to say the wrong way. lots of important things to do. That's why I'm still sitting here. But man, the really tough battles, the the the extremely long nights, um the really I I'll just say flat out dragout fights that that we've had to to wage to to overcome some hurdles ranging [snorts] from separating from UPD, ruined my health, put me in the hospital. you and I had so many I'll say late phone calls. I mean hours at a time several times a day as we as we tried to to do that. The UFA separation um the issue we had with a particular mayor for a couple of years changing

management. I mean, just huge monumental shifts like you you and I have done all of all of that together and in my opinion are the driving forces for for all of those sorts of things and there's there's no way that I could have done my part in those without you there as a [snorts] as a as a true partner and a friend. So really, anybody that's here, you you'll you'll never know a lot of things that we do, but man, [snorts] do we all owe her? That's all I'll say. I was really starting. Sher, I can't add much to what I think is what everybody said, especially Jared. I think I think we've seen that. I don't think residents always understand how hard this role is. And Sherry, you've served with dignity, with class. I love your boldness. I kind of put that in my post, you know, that I mentioned last night. I've never had somebody seen somebody so bold, willing to stand up for truly what's right for not just our community, but for the good, right? What is what is for the good of [snorts] humankind. And I have learned so much from you coming in to this role being able to sit next to you and Jared as Jared said you've fought those battles to let him you guys fought those battles already and be able to just step in and just I guess even write on your coattails a little bit because that's what we I think we've done cuz you fought those battles. You've got all that stuff in place to where things are where they are at right now, Sherry. And I have nothing but respect for you, admiration. Um, Matt has some big shoes to fill, huge shoes to fill in this role. Um, Jerry, your influence, like Jerry said, your influence on this community, on

this council, I don't think we'll ever fully understand the impact that you had on this community. And I hope everybody recognizes that. Um, we're grateful for you. We love you. This community loves you. I know they're not happy that you're stepping aside, but we're so thankful for you. We wish you nothing but the best. We hope you come around still. Um, don't come yell at us if we do anything wrong, but here every every meeting still,

but and I told Steve this today, too. It's interesting because I think every time something comes before us still I I still have Steve kind of in the back of my mind what would Steve say in a certain situation and Sherry that will be with me for these next four years. I will always have in the back of my mind. What would Sherry do in this situation? How would she want this implemented? Because that's how much respect I have for you that you're not going to be a voting member up here but your impact will be felt in my ear for the next four years. And I hope you know that. So we love you. Um, we've got some stuff for you. [applause] [applause] Mayor has more serious. So, we have a tradition here uh when the council step down provide them a picture book, a history book of our team that happened.

You going to karaoke afterwards? What's that? You want a mic? I I guess it's everybody on if we have people online. So, we have the the picture book. I hope you enjoy that. Uh we had a good time putting that together. The other tradition, you probably guess what this is, a street sign. So, we uh we had quite a bit of discussion on was it a road or a lane, but we went with Sherorn Lane. and the years that you served. And this is a a herite hopefully um you will enjoy just as a momento from the city staff to yourself there. Uh

perfect. You can use it on your driveway. So we were joking that we finished Gina Road. [laughter] and and and when Gina Road is done,

everybody will know that it was Sherry's tenacity that got it finished and over the over that line there. Thank you. Is that everything? And lastly, again, we just have this plaque recognizing and I just had the thought come up. Sherry, this has 2018 to 2026, but I think we all know in this room and your family knows your service didn't start in 2018 to this community. Your service started before that. And we know it's not over yet either. So even though there's these dates on this, we appreciate you. We know you're not going away. We thank you for your years of service. We hope you enjoy being a grandma, a mom, traveling, enjoying your family. So we love you. Congratulations again. We thank you for your service. So [applause]

I want to say something, but I want to say it sitting up there. It's okay. Come up to come up. [clears throat] Okay. One, two, three.

[applause]

I know. I almost fell over.

[snorts] Is it okay if I say something now? Yes, please.

So, lots of years ago, um, they started some construction around the house. [clears throat] I'm sure you've heard my complaints before. And I was super irritated and super mad. And there's a employee at the city, JB, Jonathan Powers. And I I tell you, he's still here. And his his skill is working with mad women. [cough] [laughter] He's very good at at calming people. No matter how angry you are, he can set you down and help you understand things and and calm down the situation. He's definitely a value ad here. So tell JB, "Thanks for calming me down." and maybe it wasn't good cuz he calmed me down enough that I decided to run for city council. [snorts] Um, thank you to my family for their support. You can't do this without good family. Um, Jared has been a great mentor for me. He was here four years before I was and um, we think a lot the same. Um, he is a statesman. He's not a politician in that sense. he um very much is here to serve and so I respect that and thank him very much for the kind things that he said to me and the so many uh venting sessions I suppose we've had to have together about situations and things that go on and uh truly am blessed um by all the people I have served with here the mayor the current council councils of the past. I've learned something from all of them and I appreciate the experience. We have an incredible staff here. Um, [snorts] it's crazy the work that they do and the

efforts they put in and the growth that the city has endured and these guys make it work. So, huge thank you to the staff. And I can't tell each of you individually because there's so many people that have have blessed my life. [snorts] I'm thankful that Cody lost by nine votes and [laughter] I won. It was a close race.

Still to this day is the best thing politically that ever happened to [laughter] me. Um, we've done a lot. Plea, the police department, I love you guys. You guys do so much for our community. Thank you so much for your service. Thank you for I'm So, to me, that's the best decision that we made in the last eight years was to create this department and the culture that's came with that. So, thank you so much for your service. UFA, animal control. There's been so many great things. Justin, thank you for being a leader in the water conservation standards we led out on that. It's a huge issue that we will continue to deal with always in this city and in this state. And um I'm thankful for my time on the the Jordan Valley Water Conservancy District because it just continues to highlight the great need we have for awareness that we live in a very dry climate. Um Youth Youth Council, what a pleasure it is to work with these youth. They're amazing kids. I'm so grateful to anytime I look at the world and read the news and think, "Oh no, we're headed down a bad path." I get to come and serve with these amazing youth that that bring renewed hope to me that know we're going to be okay because there's great leaders here, great kids to be around. Um [snorts] I talk to the youth about the pledge. It is such an honor for me to stand up here every council meeting and say the pledge of allegiance. In our daily lives once we graduate school, most of us never have opportunity to say the pledge very rarely and um it is such a precious gift that we have to live in this nation and the liberties that we have here and we should just so be so careful never to take that for granted. Um I'm thankful to Camp Williams. It's been a fun ride with them to have them as our neighbors. I got to go on two um

Blackhawk rides with them and it was super fun, super grateful for the men and women who uh [snorts] protect us and put their lives into our service. But mostly, I'm thankful for the residents. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity and trust to represent you, for being able to fight for you, listen to you. Sometimes I could vote for the things you wanted and sometimes I couldn't. But I promise you it was always well thought. I promise you I studied and tried hard to represent you. So thank you so much for the opportunity and the honor truly to be here and to serve. I'm sure I missed people, but just know how grateful I am for this opportunity. Thanks.

I'm sorry. We're going to do this one more. Can we give council member Warren one more applause? One more. [applause] Sherry, we love you. I I don't think people realize how united we become as a council when we work. We go through the hard things together. We go through the fun things together, but it's all worth it. So, thank you. [snorts] Um, okay. On that note, we'll move on tonight to our public comment. Audience members may bring any item within the city's purview to the city council's attention. Comments will be limited to two minutes. State law prohibits the council from acting on items that do not appear on the agenda. Public comments for this meeting will be al will also be conducted conducted electronically. Any person interested in addressing the council may submit a comment by emailing recorder@harman.gov or by visiting haramman.go. GV/aggendas and minutes where there is a link to fill out an online public comment form. Your statement will be incorporated into the public record. Council, do we want to

Yeah. Okay. I just want to make sure. Okay. So, what we're going to do tonight, if you're here to speak about the gate, anything with the storage unit, we're going to we're going to wait until that item so you can speak at that time. just we'll probably even let you hear maybe a presentation with some stuff because I usually think it it helps for you to hear the presentation and some of our comments. Um some a lot of times that helps put things in perspective and then and then allow you guys to comment with that information.

That makes sense. We're not trying to put you off. We just want you to be able to talk after you hear some more because this item came up on us fast. As soon as we heard about it, this came up on the we put it on the next agenda we could because we've heard concerns right out of the gate. So we tried to address this right away. So hopefully you can hear us tonight what already we've heard what we tried to resolve already but so if you have a different public comment tonight that's not related to that we'll invite you to come forward at this time. [snorts] Hi, Council Matt Basham. Sherry, thank you. Thank you for representing us um in district three just so well. I've had a a front row seat the last year, a little bit more than that, uh to watch you work. You make it look so easy. And the reason why it's easy is because all the time that you put in that that nobody knows about, nobody sees in a public meeting or listening to it. Uh all the prep time. I I did some calculations. I was just wondering what eight years of service might look like. And I think these are really conservative numbers. So, meetings, city council meetings, board meetings, you're over 500, just so you know. Um, hours conservatively, 15,000 plus. That's conservative. So, you're an expert. Well, you hit that 10,000 mark. You're an expert.

I'd say whatever that number is, you can easily double it because you Yeah, that's fine. Like like said, these are super conservative. Um, family back there agrees with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, [laughter] triple. So the the next calculation I did, nobody does this for the compensation, but you know, you're making babysitting wages in 1995. I don't know, a couple bucks an hour. So, thank you. Mayor said it best. I got some big boots to fill. And uh the only thing I would ask is when you see my number come across the caller ID, just answer. Thank you,

Matt. Somebody told me one time that don't ever try and fill someone else's shoes. Just make your own footprints. Appreciate that. Tell you that. Thank you. [snorts]

Any other public comment at this time? Okay, we'll move on to our council reports. Uh, we'll start tonight with Jared. I don't really have anything to add to the the report that UFA gave us in the work meeting. That was kind of the main thing.

Okay. Okay. KD uh Jordan Basin Improvement District um meeting last month. We adopted our uh budget. There is a fee increase from $33 to $35 um for this coming year. it'll be implement imp implemented in January one uh coming on your next uh sewer or uh Jordan Basin improvement district bill. We do have our final meeting of the year next Tuesday morning um on the 16th at 7 a.m. So that's all I have. Thank you Teddy Jerry.

Um Was Front Rights and Recycling District, you will notice the first of the of next year that your bills will go to monthly instead of quarterly. That change was made a few months ago. So that's going to impact you the next the first of next year. Um there was no rate increase this year but um they the budget was passed and the the decision was made to start charging a fee if you use credit card to pay. So um there'll be many other options that you would pay that you wouldn't have to pay the fee but um there's there's a possibility for that fee also. Um that's that's the biggest ones is and the of course the RFP we're waiting it's to my knowledge we have not received that back yet from them but we're waiting the um RFP language to come back to us so that we can get that RFP done. Um if you're not aware we're trying to change our service providers potentially it would um you know the initial bid we received would save about $5 per month. So to me that's significant. I like my bills to go down because it seems like every time they just continually to go up. So, um hopefully it's going to be in good hands. Um these guys will keep that rolling and we can make some good decisions on maybe reducing some of our costs with associ with our garbage.

Thank you, Sherry. Terry, nothing for me.

Okay. And I likewise don't have anything significant to report tonight. So, we'll go on to 8.1. Uh, [snorts] recognition of HPD's Herma Police Department's 2025 Night of Heroes Award recipients. Cody, you going to run this? Thanks, Mayor and Council. Uh, first, just the chief sends his regrets that he was unable to be here tonight. Um, but one of the coolest parts of the role that, uh, that he and I occupy is the ability to recognize the the work that's done by our folks in the field, uh, on a daily basis, to be honest with you. Um, we have a great partnership with the Mountain West Chamber of Commerce. Uh, and every year, this year in November, they hold, uh, what they call the Night of heroes where they recognize, uh, local first responders, business owners, community leaders who have a positive impact in the community. Um, so we were able to attend that uh, in November and then the mayor had requested that we uh, bring our Night of heroes recipients here uh, to be recognized by you all. So, we appreciate the opportunity. Uh, I'm going to have um my folks if you want to just come up and you can stand here while I embarrass you. [laughter] Yeah.

Yep. Right there's great. Officer Mono, Officer Fairbanks, Officer Miles, and then uh Lisa, who is our victim liaison. Uh I'm just going to read the citation real quick. Uh and then uh if if it's all right with you, mayor would like to grab a photo afterwards. Uh on August 16th, 2025, uh Heron police officers were dispatched to Black Ridge Reservoir on a report of a drowning. Officers Fairbanks, Mono, and Hoover were quickly informed that an individual remained missing, still submerged in the reservoir. Witnesses provided last known location information amid a chaotic and emotionally charged scene. Without hesitation or regard for their own safety, officers and Hoover immediately entered the water to begin an urgent search for the missing individual. Officer Fairbanks coordinated the search efforts, collected critical information, and calmed panicked witnesses while maintaining scene control under mounting tension. Soon after, Officer Miles and Winder arrived and began assisting with family members, friends, and witnesses who were gathering at the scene. The victim's mother, who was distraught and obviously in crisis, attempted multiple times to enter the water. With extraordinary empathy and resolve, Herman officers and our victim liaison, Lisa, provided support to a grieving family. They balanced compassion with control, all while trying to maintain and manage a very chaotic scene. Herman officers and personnel exhibited professionalism, valor, and compassion of the highest order. They navigated an evolving emergency with clear-headed action, emotional sensitivity, and an unwavering commitment to public service. And although this particular incident had a very tragic outcome, uh that does not diminish in any way the actions of these fine individuals who we are proud to recognize tonight. [applause] [applause] Sure.

Picture One, two, three.

[applause] [applause]

You know, mayor, some of them really do hate when we embarrass them like that. Uh, but I want you to know that we do have the finest and best officers in the state of Utah, hands down. I hope you're as proud of them as we are. Uh, and therefore, don't be leaving yet. We haven't said anything about you. [laughter] Yeah. I told them they could leave when they were done. So, they're not done yet. I I like you guys even more. You know your priorities. Council, you like to say anything about speak to this?

Just back to my previous comments. I just so admire you. I so thank you for what you do and I just don't know you're extraordinary individuals to handle the stress and and be peacekeepers in our community. So, thank you.

I just piggy back on a comment Sherry made earlier. I've said this I said this at the time and I've continued to say it ever since. And no matter what I'm involved with here, the most important and best decision we ever made was to break away from UPD and create our own department. We have the best people. We continue to attract the best people because the best people are here. I mean, just just one little, I guess, example that speaks to that. I look at different agencies around that always have open allocations, meaning they're always looking to hire officers. They they can't fill the positions that they have. If we have an opening, average 50 to 100 applicants, easy. We we we simply do have the best people and are doing something special when it comes down to you guys. So, thank you.

Yeah, I I'm going to piggyback off of what um Cody Stroberg said that we honestly do have the best staff in this department. every individual I've had um personal reactions or re relations with and uh meeting them and talking to them on the street, even the brand new ones that are in FTO and coming over from other departments. They come here because of the people and that's what makes it special. Um and I know a lot of you don't live close to the community. Some of you are traveling an hour to get to work and we appreciate that and your dedication and service. um especially during these fun times and then during the holidays and events we have and when everybody's overworked and we we appreciate your boldness to jump right in and run towards the action and the fear when most are running away. Thank you. I'll just add a another quick thank you um for all you do, especially I'm grateful that you're able to receive recognition for um just that a tragic night and to be able to just make things a little bit easier for for that family and for our community. Um in addition to all them other many things that you do,

I remember the night this happened. I remember I was on Mountain View corridor northbound coming from the south end of the city. I remember passing the emergency vehicles as we were sitting here talking about this. Makes you realize as I'm driving north to the comfort of my own home, Anna, you're jumping in the water, risking your own life without a second thought. And I know you did that, but I know every single one of our officers would do that exact same thing. So, thank you for your sacrifices to your families, for your sacrifice. I know to send you out the door every morning, every day knowing that you might put your lives at risk that day. We cannot thank you enough for your service. We appreciate you. We've got the best, like we said, and this just is another highlight of what our people do in our department. So, thank you. Um, congratulations for your efforts. Um, again, awful situation, but the way it was handled could have been so much different. So, thank you for what you do, not only at this event, but every day, protecting our community. So, just thank you. So, [snorts] let's give them one more round of applause. [applause]

And now you're free to go if you'd like. [laughter]

Thanks, Ann. Thank you, guys. Okay, we will go on to item 9.1 tonight, public hearing and consideration of a resolution amending the fiscal year 2026 budget. Uh Kyle, [snorts] thank you, mayor. Uh this will be hopefully fairly quick tonight. Uh there's just two items we as staff are requesting a budget amendment for. Uh the first one is to transfer 37,500 from the legislative budget to the information technology budget. Uh staff would like to purchase uh report writing AI and um data gathering software uh specifically for use in the community development department. The report writing software will be used um citywide. Uh just as of note, this is a test run for this. So if it's successful, um staff would put in a request with the next budget cycle to continue it, but that would end up getting ranked against any other requests that come in. So this is just a a one time let's see how it goes type of thing to try to improve efficiency. And the second is uh when I did the budget carryovers last month, I did neglect to carry over funds to finish our fire uh impact fee analysis, which he was a council's already adopted. So, that would be uh $4,250 from fund balance. And those are the only two items tonight. Uh are there any questions before the public hearing for me? Thank you.

Thank you, Kyle. Okay. At this point, we'll open the public comment on this item. Public hearing on this item. See no comment. Look for a motion to close the public hearing. So, move. Second. All in favor? I look for a motion on this item. Motion to approve resolution number R61-2025 approving an amendment to the 2026 fiscal budget. Motion by Jared. Second. Second by Sherry. Jared, yes. Teddy, yes. Sherry, yes. Tara, yes. And I'll vote yes. That motion carries. Thank you, Kyle. Uh going to item 10, our consent agenda, and look for a motion. [snorts]

Motion to approve the consent agenda as written. Motion by Sherry. Second. Second by Jared. We'll go Tara. Yes. Sherry. Yes. Teddy. Yes. Jared. Yes. No vote. Yes. That motion carries. Okay. We will now move to item 11.1. Discussion regarding access requirements and limitations to Black Powder Drive for Mountain View self storage. Uh Blake. So at this point, we we'll have a presentation. we'll talk about what we've considered and then we'll open the public hearing because you can adjust your comments as needed or whatever and then then we'll have a discussion and probably take some action. So,

thank you. All right. So, this item obviously is uh brought up because of some resident concerns. Um it's a project that is uh almost at the end here. So, I'll [clears throat] just run through some uh details on the project. First off, where it's located. Uh this is right off the Mountain View corridor between 126 and 118 South. This is a zoom in a little bit more on the project site. This project was actually three uh three different things in one project. It's part of a master development agreement. I'll go through that in a second here. So, [clears throat] why we're here is uh there's some concerns with access and safety um and some lighting concerns. And then uh this outline for this discussion, we'll go over some of the project details of what the project is and what that blue area um represents. Uh the approval timeline and then the processes that uh the council planning commission and the staff including UD do and UFA went through for for approving this project and where we're at. So some of the details, there's the north project office area. Um there's an office building constructed there right now. Their main access is off 118th. There's the middle park area and these are the terms that were used in the master development agreement. So, um that might not really look like a park. It might look more like just open space, but that's what it [clears throat] was called. And then the south area highlighted here, that's the one we're here to talk about, is the self- storage area. Um the timeline for the approval, the MDA was um there were several discussions. Um, I went back and listened to every single meeting we discussed this project in. The very first meeting I had recorded was November 13th, 2019. Um, I was presenting to the council at that meeting, uh, asking the council at the time if they were interested in hearing more about this project. It sounded like there were discussions before, but I there was nothing on the agenda. So

2019, the council gave direction that yes, we want to continue talking about the overall project. This was the storage, the park and the storage unit. [clears throat] Then uh April 22nd, 2020, uh the planning department was heading up this discussion and uh there was specific discussion in that meeting um by about an 8oot pre-cast fence around the project and Councilman Henderson Henderson at the time specifically brought up the ride in ride out access for the storage on Mount View corridor. um that the storage unit would be divided from existing neighborhoods and that much of the access discussion for that was actually focused up on the north side accessing um the the the office space. But those two items were brought up by Councilman Henderson about a month after that, May 13th, 2020. Um [clears throat] the presentation showed an exhibit with an 8 foot pre-cast wall between the development and the the neighborhood, but there was no additional discussion on that meeting um regarding Mountain View corridor or access to Black Powder Drive. Uh about another month after that, June 10th, 2020, and this was uh COVID time, so we were always in this room. It was they were long, long meetings. So there was a lot of people weren't in the room here. We had the mayor was here at the time, Mayor Watts, and every council member was at home and staff was either in their office. Some staff was in the room. It was it was uh it's really hard to have conversations back then. So on June [clears throat] 10th, 2020, uh the presentation, this was the first time that a crash gate was specifically mentioned. Um and that's what it was called in the meeting was a crash gate. Uh it was discussed that UD do approval would be required for the Mountain View corridor access. Um that was also stated several times before, but this is where

it really came out clear that UD do was going to be required to provide access or provide the approval for that access off Mount View corridor. Um and then with the crash gate discussion, it was discussed about the emergency access onto Black Powder Drive. it was required by the fire department and a little bit later I'll have a an email from the fire marshall that we can read and see what was was said about that and then [clears throat]

um at that time Councilman Henderson and Councilman Smith uh were asking questions about the gate um how it would be in would it be incorporated into the pre-cast wall um who would have access um some of those questions were never answered we kind of bounced back to uses and what was going on with the uses in the other areas of the project and that ite. And so, um, one question that was asked was was would this be an attractive nuisance and, uh, and would the gate be accessed by electronic controls or siren controls or or how would that be locked? Um, then [clears throat] fast forward to June 24th, 2020, which was a couple weeks after that June 10th meeting. Um, that's when the MDA was brought to the council and it was approved. The right in right out. I'll go through the MDA approval here in a second, but that was kind of a rundown of the meetings and what was said. So, there was a lot of discussion around access to this gate and what it would look like. And then I'll get into where we're at here. So, some of the key components in the MDA that were approved June 24th, 2020 were that UD do have to issue the permit for access. I've kind of highlighted them here. That there would be emergency access to Black Powder through a crash gate and that Mountain View corridor would have to be accessed with a public street. And that [clears throat] was key because that tied into the UD do discussion. So there's the key components from the MDA. And then here's the exhibit that was included in the MDA. There was there's a green line surrounding [cough] the the site um specifically on the residential areas. That's an 8ft fence. Um it ended up being pre-cast wall um per the MDA. And then the access on the Mountain View corridor shown here is a public street. Um it didn't have a lot of detail. it only showed some parking stalls and then it fizzles out um into the indoor storage area and then you can see the access on Black Powder Drive was shown as an emergency access only.

[clears throat] So this is this is the that language that I showed and this was what the staff had to um hold up as a standard to the developer on what was required. [clears throat] Um, as I said, the master development agreement went to the planning commission for recommendation, was approved by the city council. Then following that, once the development agreement was approved, the developer worked with UD do and staff and and got the plans to a point where they could apply for a commercial subdivision and a conditional use permit. That went to the planning commission. Both were approved. Then [clears throat] after that, civil site plans received final engineering approval from the city and went through the city's review process is they're sent out to multiple departments. So planning, public works, fire marshall, and then the utility companies like sewer district. Um and during all of that, Mountain View corridor access permit was um totally independently approved by UD do the city applies for that. So the developer prepared all the materials. the city was the applicant and then UD do reviewed it. So, we'll get into fire marshall correspondence. This is the correspondence I found from November 1st, 2018. So, there obviously were conversations going on before that 2019 meeting. Um, this one, [clears throat] the fire marshall says that uh some of the original plans had buildings between the access road on Mountain View corridor and Blackpowder Drive. So, the road would have had to go in. you'd had to go into the complex and go around the buildings and then it would have been a true emergency access out of the site from the storage units. And so that plan is I think what was getting spoken about here by the fire marshall saying that building might be in the way. The fire truck might not be able to maneuver around it. So that might need to shrink or move to make this work. So that's

[clears throat] that's one part. They're talking about square footage of the units and if uh if a second access would even be required, which they determined it was later. Then we had the UD do correspondence. This was from an email March 10th, 2021. I've kind of highlighted the key pieces here. The developers requesting access off Mountain View. Um what's being requested here doesn't meet the access requirements. Um, UD do Herman City had an existing cooperative agreement that required that access road to be to a public street. What they were trying to do was what was in the original plans, have the parking lot come in and then you'd have to go into the complex. U DOT didn't accept that. U DOT required that you had to get from point A to point B. [clears throat] And then uh they wanted to make sure it was a actual road. So the pavement needed to be wide enough to carry the vehicles they planned on carrying. And so UD do at the end of this says they wouldn't accept these plans. So the plans went back and forth with UD do the city submitting these plans every time and it turned into this road here is what UD do was accepting. The other option would be the access wouldn't have been granted and they would had to scrap everything and come back and only have access off of Black Powder Drive for whatever was going to be developed there.

[clears throat]

So, the final plan provided um the engineering was approved on June 21st, 2024. Was kind of getting ahead of me on the planning commission stuff, but uh [clears throat] with that, remember the language and the the exhibit. There was an 8ft pre-cast wall around the development. There was access on the Mountain View corridor that was a public street and the emergency access on the black powder was protected by a gate that was approved by the fire marshal. So, so that checked all the boxes, but I think there were spirit of the law and the intent or the the you know the intent of the law were were a little bit different on each side here. So you can see here existing photos, aerial photo. Um you can see the access road was built per the plan. It goes in and the gate was built per the plan that was approved but um perhaps not to the intent of what the council was thinking at the time. Um took a few more photos here. This this gate on top is one that is the security gate that goes into the actual storage units. And then a closeup of the gate and the ballard um protecting vehicles from shortcutting the road um [clears throat] on the bottom. So with that, the staff is just looking at that this was brought up by the residents and the council has asked to um look at this further. So, we're we're looking for direction from the council and I I think there's a lot of people here that are interested in saying what they were anticipating and uh and then the developer is also here and so um if you'd like to speak to them, I think they might they're willing to speak as well on this item.

Said we will address the the lighted sign as well.

And the lighted sign, I didn't prepare anything for that one. Um, we did receive an email about I think five or six weeks ago from a resident and uh we reached out to the developer. They were more than willing to do something and so we we discussed putting a timer or a dimmer on the lights. um they they opted to go with the timer to shut the lights off and I was told um several weeks ago that that timer was in place and that the lights shut off at 1000 p.m. at night and then come on when the the sun goes down. Um [clears throat] so we we did that, found out that it was done. Um planning staff reached back out to that resident that had um sent in the complaint and sent an email and said, "Are there any concerns? Does this work?" And we haven't heard anything back. And that was I think two weeks ago. And so we we hadn't heard anything back and uh so we we hadn't done any additional on that.

And that might be miscommunication between me and council members and and other staff. [clears throat] There's been several that I've been communicating with and Well, I I think we found out, but this agenda was primarily on the gate, but certainly you can talk about the lights. So when we get to to that portion, if you just have that um the ordinance pulled up with the sections that you and I talked about that we can reference. So if you don't mind maybe me speaking to that for just a second. Right. So um so I've been out there several times. I've taken pictures during the day, during the night. I have I've been those staff. We'll have those ready to go when when we're ready to look at that. I don't know if you want if you want me to go through those now or

Yeah. later. Yep. Let's do that. Um, so the the continued complaints are that well now that it's I believe when the first one came in, I don't know if the light had changed or not. And first I'll say I apologize for the poor quality of these photos. You were with I I don't Oh, you're on the parked. You're on the shoulder. Yeah, I'm parked. Um, I I think that I think that if there's a good attorney around that does class action suits, they should really look into Apple's upgrades and see if they're degrading the quality of your cameras because mine certainly is getting worse with every stinking update that they do. John's is awesome though.

So, and I as I was sending them to Jonathan, I thought I should have had him come out and take real pictures. So, as I went through this, if you can just go back to to the beginning, I tried to give views both at day and at night. I've gone out several different nights. Um, I've walked the the length of everything. So, this view is from Mountain View looking towards the north. As you can see, the road curves, and I think that's the biggest issue with the s the sign that's in question is the one that's facing us in this picture. At night, it's lit up. Um, the the store the those are indoor storage units, right? So, like closet sort of things that are brightly lit at night as well. Um, as you continue up the road, right, you can start to see how it's more pronounced. And as we go up the road more, you'll see that it really starts to face the neighborhood more than it does the road because it curves, right? So, the the storage units are built in a straight line, but the road curves. And so this sign is on the end of it ends up pointing toward as much towards the homes or more so than it does the road. Let's go ahead. The next one, Jonathan. So this is from um obviously the the homes that are back there. These are forplexes, you know, owner mo, as far as I know, mainly owner occupied. So again, this is during the day. And so this is kind of the closest view I could get a decent shot of with my phone. And then I worked my way back to where the two fences intersect. Now, this is just the fence that that is behind these homes. The actual Mountain View corridor fence is farther to the west. You can see it there.

And so this this for me, this picture shows you the kind of the biggest issue here, right? Just because of the way that the storage units are facing. This is on supposed to be on the side of the storage. It is the side of the storage facility. It's facing right into these people's homes and and and windows versus you can see the the Mountain View wall. The roads on the other side of that. And then if you want click through again. So this is just at the end of that fence where it turns to meet the Mountain View wall. You can really see it here. Right. So just the direction it's pointing is wrong. And then I tried to take the same angles at night and just kind of click through those a bit till we get to the houses. This is looking directly west in front of the homes, right? So, if this is the side of the building, we really shouldn't be able to see this sign at all and it's pretty bright. So, I tried to just get all the kind of the same views as we go. And then this is from the opposite side of Mountain View to give you an idea of the frontage that they have. that that is well lit and has signs. So, same thing both during the day and at night. This is that's beginning at the north end and then going to the south. I couldn't fit it all into even three frames. This is just the main sections. And then this is obviously this is at the corner where the Mountain View wall starts looking north and you can see where the main gate is and then it continues farther to the south and then this is from the opposite direction right from the north end looking to the south where the Mountain View wall starts. The storage units continue another 119 yards or 350ish feet

beyond where the Mountain View wall is. And this that that final sign that we're worried about on the side is at the end of that run. And I tried to take the same ones at night. So you can see that we're not lacking for signage and and frontage. And I tried to get the on the opposite side of the street as well. Again, this is just from the north to the middle where the where the road is. And then if hold there, Jonathan, on the very far right end, you can see one bright light above the the dark. That's that's that sign at the very end of the storage units. That's the 350 some odd feet um that it runs until that sign's at the end. So, I just wanted to kind of give that perspective. Um, as I went through looked through everything, how did the planning commission miss this was, you know, a lot of times the the pictures that we see show the project. It's not showing the curvature of the road. It's not showing the proximity of those things, etc. I can see how it was kind of overlooked. In addition to the fact that our ordinance isn't great, and as a result of tonight, I'm going to ask that we look at rewriting the ordinance going forward. We we can't make it retroactive necessarily, but for me, when it comes to the sign, I think the easy thing for us to do is to talk to the developer and the and extra space, whoever is is operating that and see if they'll just agree that to be good neighbors and just shut the light off at night.

The big one. Yeah. So, so ju just the one on that end doesn't need to be lit.

It does doesn't need to be lit. It's fine to have the sign there, but to have it on and be that bright, you know, disrupting people's sleep, right? All the quality of life, all those things that that we're concerned about, that that's the easy fix for me. This if they're not willing to do that, then this is where I'll look to Nathan to to look at the code. Right? So, the code says that normally this wouldn't have been allowed if if they were single family homes, but because they're forplexes, the code the code says you can't have a sign a commercial sign within 200 feet of a single family home, but because they're forplexes, the right, the letter of the law says that they can put it there. Well, then you have the planning commission where and I know a lot of uh the residents did did participate in the planning commission meetings and again it was the the line of sight I think was overlooked right the way that the road curves and how it shines that way. Um so that was kind of the the first oversight. So, if they don't agree to just not turn the light on, um, then the next option is this section of the code. And I'm going to paraphrase Na paraphrase Nathan. Correct me if if I'm way off base or if you want to read the actual thing. There's a process that that we could have them file. They could, if they choose, file an official complaint that goes to basically Blake [laughter] would be the person that hears the complaint and works with the two parties to find a amanable solution. If you go to the letter of the law, if they want to dig their heels in and don't want to turn it off, we can't really make them. Um, but I believe that through that process, we could require them to dim it and turn it off at 10. But even dimming it the way it's pointing, like as you saw in those pictures, it's pointing more towards those homes than it is the road. And with the frontage they have,

it's not needed. So, which is why I phrased it. Hopefully, they'll just be a good neighbor and and shut it off. So, is it not because I'm hearing seeing headshakes when they say it's not turning off at 10. We've been told it's turning off at 10, but we're saying it's not going off at 10. And it may not be. To me, the bigger issue is that during the winter, it gets dark at 5. Yeah. 10:00. That's five hours of a really bright light shining in your home, disrupting everything, especially if you're a shift worker, etc., etc. Do you remember the Seinfeld when the red light was on? Yeah. Right. Cranmer. [laughter]

That's that's kind of that's that that's a [cough] great comparison. That's really what it is to me. So, I mean, for so that that's the next step. So Blake did a good job of saying we've already been in contact with them, tried to do that. That's not doing the trick. We have not spoken with them again since. Um in the in the interim, I've been talking with several of you about both the gate and the light and we haven't reached back out to them. I asked that this get on the council agenda so that we can kind of address it. So that's why I'm putting it out that way that those for the sign. I think those are the two next things for us is one we talk to them and hopefully they'll agree just not to turn the light on. It's not needed. It's, you know, 350 ft removed from the facility and they have I mean, if somebody doesn't see it, the rest of it to put in perspective and measured the whole thing, the excluding that 300 some odd feet, it's by by my strides, I'm six foot three, right? So, each step is at least three feet. Um, so for me, the rest of it that's shown in the pictures is 765 feet. Right. And then you add that 300, you're talking a thousand feet of frontage that is comp that is lit with with signs. It's it's just not needed. It's pointing the wrong way. So hopefully that will be the solution is we just don't turn the light on. The sign can stay there, but just don't light it. If they don't agree to that, then I'm sure through the kind of appeal process, we could require them to dim it and and have it shut off and then we have to monitor it from there.

Good so far on that one. [cough] Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. When it comes to the gate, I'll say thank you very much for going back because it's this has been years and years and many many meetings and conversations and it took a lot of time for them to go back. That wasn't just reading minutes. They had to go back and listen to the audio [laughter]

of of those meetings because the minutes aren't word for word. They're, you know, general summaries. Um, and that largely matches with my recollection. The big thing for me on the gate itself, one, the requirement is a Nox box. There's no box there. It's just a chain and padlock. But moreover, my re and I'll just say my recollection of those conversations, as is evidenced in the record, I was very concerned about there being no access from the neighborhood right from start to finish. Um, I wasn't concerned about them having access. My response to having access from Mountain View is if they can get it from UD do, you know, great. If they can't, then they can't. But there's no way we're going to have a commercial access, you know, through the neighborhood, especially the way that neighborhood's laid out. makes zero sense whatsoever. Um, to put a few things in perspective, when it came back around several years later and go back through through several things, but one consideration, at least for me, was that the city doesn't own this property, never owned the property, right? The the private organization and developer owned the property. they could pursue to develop it and as was stated earlier only have an access through through the neighborhood and we wouldn't be able to stop them. Um we could try to we could absolutely vote no you can't put anything there but we'd be violating property rights. They'd sue us and we would lose. It's pretty much that simple. Um, so looking at as their their proposal for that was high density condos and we flat out said absolutely not. Well then what commercial use can be there? It's a bad piece of property. Then we put in a restriction that well if I knew full well having done this even at that time [laughter] for a few years that the easy thing to do is to put up the storage units. They can do that pretty fast and easy and start making money. They they came in selling the the office building and so we pushed back and I think that's why there's so

many years in between. Yeah. I I thought it was a hurdle that they wouldn't clear. It took them several years and came back and and actually did is that they had to actually do the office building. I forget the requirement they had to have they had to actually put money into the ground. They had to actually put a foundation or something. We

It was to obtain a building permit. So they'd had to pay all their fees. they had to do all the engineering and basically incur a cost of I mean a significant cost to do it before they could even begin on the storage units. So we we were trying to find a good a good way to to do things that wouldn't hurt the neighborhood. And then even at that you mentioned Councilman Smith and I came back to there needs to be no access to the neighborhood. We need to protect the neighborhood both with the wall and no access. U came back and said that we'll allow an access but there has to be a public street. can't just be an access to a business which then began the discussion of the gate and my recollection of that was always I'm not happy with just a flimsy gate like the one we see in the picture right when we talked to fire etc. Well, it needs to be accessible. It needs to be a crash gate. And the answer I was given to a crash gate is that could be literally anything. It could be the rollaway. It could be electronic, you know, ballards that come out of out of the ground. it it's a term that could be used for anything. I'll hold my hand up and say I should have known better. I always say devil is in the details and as you said we went back we had so many conversations over so many years. Um, I felt like we had asurances that the the we'll figure out the gate and it will be more than just what we see here was was my feeling and one of the main reasons I'm driving that we talk about this gate because while it might meet the minimum standard of the MDA and that's where I say I hold my hand up. Usually I push back. I'm like the devil's in the details. We need to make sure that MDA because all that matters in the end several years later is how these things work

is what is what the words say. Um, and so I I'll hold my hand up there that they didn't push back with enough force on that particular detail. But I also feel that the developer has been really responsive and amanable. But if if they don't want to to do anything different here, I do feel that the city has given on more than one occasion, not just council, but planning commission people have called in and they've been told that there would be a a better gate there, whatever that whatever that means. Most I think most people picture the the kind of rod iron black gate that you see is what we all kind of had in mind. So my opinion is that if the if the developer doesn't want to do it, they have fulfilled their contractual obligation. Then I feel that the city needs to do that to make good on the expectation that we set with residents. Apart from that then you can see the the pedestrian access that was never discussed. It was never mentioned anywhere I'm told. that the reason that's there is we as part of our commercial ordinance, we require any commercial business to have a um a pedestrian access. And because Mountain View is just a frontage road right now and on this side of Mountain View there's no walkway, you know, planning department and this is not their fault. They rightly kind of looked at the plans and went, "Well, just connect it to the existing sidewalk right there and that will satisfy that requirement until Mountain View." But then that gave further access through here that we said would not exist. We we we gave a pretty in my mind we gave a pretty clear um expectation to the residents that there would be no access

here. So then my conversations with um Nathan and others has been well what what can we do with the gate? I think that's what we what we can do. Then the question is what do what should we do? What do the five of us want to do? When it [snorts] comes to the pedestrian access then I asked two questions is well again what can we do and that the answer do was pretty immediate from legal that we cannot just put a gate there because of the federal ADA laws. It has if it if there if it's accessible at all it has to be fully accessible is my understanding. So correct me if I'm wrong in this. My question is, does it have to be accessed at all? Can we just close that off? Right? That there's no need for it. The only thing it accesses from And I wish I would have I should have thought I had to take pictures of where that trail goes. It goes to further just open dead space before you hit the homes there because it's the power corridor.

Yeah. Right. No one is going to be walking even if you live in that neighborhood. I I really doubt that any of your friends and neighbors are going to be walking to that storage unit to get things or take no one with good intent,

right? Um if we're not required to, again, I think the simplest, easiest thing to do with the pedestrian access is just close it. Regardless, we'll have if we can't do that, we'll have to do something because that opening is seven and is easily seven and 1/2 ft wide. Um one of the residents sent me a picture. They didn't get the person actually going through it, but took a picture as soon as they could. The car was on the other side. Watched a car drive through it. It's a tight fit, but a compact car could fit through there. Those ballards are just too far apart. So, we'll have to do anything. Sorry. What's that? A motorcycle. There's different

Oh, yeah. Motorcycles. All the ebikes and the attractive nuisance. That That's a legal term that I learned 30 years ago in in college in my business law class, right? that the attractive news is is that it's there and it's a dead space and it's attractive for kids to go and hang out and and do things that so that that's kind of what that discussion was earlier and I think it it's an app description as it is now especially with that adjoining kind of power corridor etc. Um, it is it does kind of having that access creates somewhat of an attractive nuisance and I'll I'll bet that at some point the storage unit people will probably agree at night. I'm sure PD will end up agreeing. So, Rutzsworth, those are there's my summary for you and suggestions.

So, Jared, let me summarize. I think what you're trying to say publicly is I think people misunderstand that as council we're sitting watching these projects happen and we're you know we're approving a gate and we're approving like this the council in 2020 before a couple three of us were even involved was approved by a previous council with some understandings right at that point it for us it's kind of out of sight out of mind if in a way right it's not our involvement is the zoning right the use of the property and then the MDA is the thing is the is the agreement that then we can add all kinds of things including the requirement for the gate etc. Right. Yeah. And

I guess what I'm all I'm trying to say is as soon as we were aware of this from you from the residents we put this on an agenda to solve we we recognize as well that there were some issues with this right. So let me just say that right like we recognized right out of the gate this was not what was envisioned five years ago. Right. So let me just say that. So that's where this wasn't a council being lazy. This wasn't a council trying to like this was they built it there and this we can't even fault the contractor. They build it according to what they were required to do. So now this is our role now is to step in. Residents have brought us a concern. Now we're going to try to come up with a resolution. Right? So that's what we're doing here.

Hopefully you see this good faith effort. The next possible meeting we could have it. It was on Morgan and I have been on the like the next possible meeting. We brought this forward to try to come up with a solution. So that's what we're here today. Again we'll take arrows. We're not saying don't come up here and but just know that this was we didn't kick the can down the road. We didn't try to like we're here to try to come up a solution with you tonight. So just I think that's what Jared's just trying to say. This is how we got here. It's not worth really it's not worth going back and trying to you know at the end of the day we're where we're at today. Now we've got to figure out how to make this better. We've got to come up with a solution today. So that's where we're at. I've just found over the years that it's [cough and clears throat] if when I started out sitting in those seats, so be careful. I always say this when you come to these meetings,

you might just end up sitting up here because that's how I got involved in this stuff as I wasn't happy about something. Um, but we've I wanted to give you a full description of kind of what we've been doing, what we're looking at, or at least my point of view for it before you you make your comments so that you have that information to incorporate into your comments.

Um, also also a quick point, we're we're kind of limited in exactly what we can legally or obligation do. We have to be good stewards and take these options, what we come up to with the property owners, the developers, and the people that can make these changes. Um, so we may come up with some amazing ideas, but it's still a process of getting the end user to agree to those and make those changes to whatever they were supposed to do originally and required by the city and our our rules and then what they are obligating or what we would like them to do or correct or change. So, some of these corrections are very easy and minimal. Some of them may take a little bit more time and creativeness. So, let's do public comment at this point then. So, now you've kind of heard the background where we're trying to head. We'll still kind of talk, but we would like to hear your you know, and I'll I will say I told Morgan this when we were on the phone last night. If you've got an idea of what you would like to see, again, we can't promise, but I like when people come with solutions. You've heard, you know, is it a rot iron fence you want? What is it? Again, I don't want to shoot for the moon and say this, but because we'll talk about what we have, but what are are we okay with a rod iron fan? That kind of thing. what are you after? And then we'll talk about what we can do up here. So, um, we'll go ahead and do the public comment at this time. Then I'll start with the three forms I have. You didn't have to send in a form necessarily, but I'll start with the ones I have. So, we'll start with Katie Kaw.

Do you want to reiterate the two minutes or And again, just two minutes. You've got two minutes. And yes. Hi, I'm Katie Kessaw. I'm the one that sent the email. Apologize I missed you. Um, I think I originally reached out in September and didn't get a response either, so I kind of gave up, honestly. So, thank you, Jared. Sorry, it's a little stressful to stand up here. As long as I'm not the only one tonight, feel [laughter] better. A

little stressful. We're not public speakers, so please forgive us. It's anxiety. Um, so I live in the house that the sign faces. My windows are green. My children's bedroom windows are on that wall. That fence is 20 ft from my home. Now, I understand that we need to build and we need to develop and we need to add things to the city. And to your points, um I was very happy to find out it was a storage unit and not higher density. Um I think a comment to remember is that we can't afford to live in single family housing anymore, but we should be treated the same. We have children that live in those rooms that do need to sleep and it does affect us that way. Um I would just love for you guys to review the code. Um I reviewed the code. There's lots of things that are outside of that um from the trees that weren't planted that are in the plan that would provide a barrier between our home. Um the sign is very bright. I don't think those pictures do it justice.

I would love for you to come over at night. Uh, the sign has been turned down. That's true. Um, it was turned off at 10:00 for a few days, maybe a few weeks. I stopped keeping track. It's back on. It stays on all night. Um, sometimes the sign gets turned off, but the display windows do not. Um, they're purely display window. That light is not needed for access. Those are not storage spaces. So, those lights, sorry, those lights don't turn on and off when someone walks in. They're on all the time. Is is there also a way even if they're in there so people can access her units. There's certainly a way that you could film the windows or something so that Well, that's not an actual window. That's a storefront window. So, it's just fake.

No, no, no. It's it's a window. There's like closet door storage units in there, but they're on that bright all the time. I didn't mean to take your time. Which is part of the signage. The the other the other end is just like it, right? But to me, that that's part of the signage. Look at any of their buildings around and whether it's Extra Space or others, they do that. But that that's part of the signage. Yeah. So that so for the record developers whoever like we'll ask that they turn that off as well. It can do me a motion light when somebody enters that space. They can turn it on to access a film on a film on the windows. Yeah.

Yeah. Um to my knowledge I've watched it built. There's nothing in it. It's a display showcase. So um it'd be great if the development could be completed with the trees. There's uh utilities on the roof that are supposed to be shelded. the fence is supposed to be painted the same color. So, if we can build all this into that, um to the point of the fence or the gate in the back, I would just say a security issue. I think an important thing for us to remember in our city and our state as we continue to grow, other states haven't done a great job of protecting that's a quick access road. It would create more crime. So, something to look at. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you, kid.

Thanks for saying the prayer. Thanks for leading the pledge, too. And like Sherry said, thank you for being here. We appreciate you guys. I know this is nerve-wracking. We've all been here. I think this is how we all got involved was being in like Jared said, we brought a frustration. So, thank you. It's I promise we're just normal people here trying to help you. I promise. So, thank you, Katie. I've been the mad woman on that site before, too. [laughter]

I think we all started that mic. Trina Jacobson, did I say is it Hello. Um, I live just off Black Powder. I have been talking with Jared. He's been great. We've talked to Blake a few times as well. I'm just going to kind of voice my concerns. Um, I will say when the storage units we heard they were coming, I was kind of relieved. I do think that was the best solution for that area. Um, I think me and my neighbors were a little dumbfounded by an access first. I did call the city and they did tell me a gate. I was kind of assuming it would be a little bit of a nicer gate. Um, and my what I was told it kind of sounded like it would be completely closed off. So, having it open was kind of a shocker. First of all, we weren't really expecting that access. Um, and then having the gate go in and seeing the large sidewalk and then the opening. I don't know, the picture shows a very large opening, just a stop sign. Um, I am a little concerned about safety. There is a park not far from there, just a little tiny park. Um, from a mother's perspective, if a little toddler got away from you, they'd be on Mountain View in seconds. Um, the kids bus stop is also right there. Um, junior high bus stop. Um, my daughter actually came home Monday telling me that somebody pulled right up to that gate, got out of their car, got back in their car, and sped away. So, I do have some concerns with safety for the kids that are standing there alone at 7:30 in the morning. Um, my other major concern is it's ugly. [laughter] Um, it's very industrial. Uh, we don't live in an industrial area. We live in a beautiful residential area and I just was hoping the standard would be held at a little bit higher for us residents.

Thank you. Perfect. Thank you, Trina. Thank you. [applause] Jen Bangader. Jen, haven't seen you in a while. Good to have you out. [snorts] Jen knows how involved. This is how we get involved. Jen, that's how [laughter]

um my name is Jen Bangader and I live just down the street from Trina. And our biggest concerns are the safety access, right? The open thing. Um, something that is a little bit intriguing to me, I I thought I took a screenshot of it, but I didn't. But on I think it's August 2nd of 2023, there's like a a list um of like all the attachments, right? And and it and it shows like the gates and everything in there. And on that plan, it looks like it is just like the other black gates that are there rising up. It looks exactly like that. And so from my perspective, when I saw that, I'm like, "Okay, they're gonna have an electronic gate that goes up just like they're having for all the other places." And so I felt even though I didn't want this storage unit there, right, I felt satisfied like, okay, they're going to make sure that this is not access accessible at all, that they're going to keep the boundary of commercial and residential completely separate like it should be, right? Minus whatever the fire department says that they need. So for for us it's like that felt it feels a little deceiving and and and I know I don't read blueprints, right? But like it it was very obvious a a contraption to control it kind of thing, you know, like it looked just like the other ones that are now the Black Iron Gates. So, so that um felt a little misleading to me, like I was okay because I felt like that was what was coming up, you know. So, um but just like the others have said, my concerns are the same with safety. My kid is one of those kids that rides that bus and

you know, teenagers and other kids and there's just a lot of open space right there for the for problems to be caused. And so there's a lot of little concerns that just pile up. So, and thank you for your time and effort and what you're trying to do to help us. So, thank you, Jen. Good to see you again. You, too. [applause] Okay. I don't have any more forms. That doesn't mean you can't come to speak. So, if you'd like to come make a comment, just I would just ask that you state your name for the record at that point. If and if not, we'll discuss. Okay.

Yeah. [clears throat] So I'm Jeremy Jacobson. Um been doing construction for 30 years. Um so I'm very familiar with um commercial residential. So if we are required to have a ADA access for wheelchairs is what they're calling it. We know no wheelchairs are going to have to enter that off of black powder. Could we put a rod iron gate there with a a push button push electronic push button with an arm that if somebody does have to roll their wheelchair through that they could that gate could open up for them. that would at least deter the honest people from seeing this wide open sidewalk. The other the other thing too is why do we have to have like a 4 foot um opening over on the south side towards the concrete fence? Like if that if that sidewalk has to stay, which none of us residents want it to stay, but if if there's no way around that, why can't that sidewalk be tight to the to the concrete fence and um close that that big enormous opening there? And then on top of that, I second like why can't we have a nice looking right arm fence just like the the rest of the community versus, you know, uh just a swing arm, you know? So,

thank you, Jeremy. [applause]

Stephanie Campbell and I live in the building right next to Katie Kesaw. We're in the circle and my front door faces east, but my neighbor has all of her bedroom windows and her living room facing what we call uh, you know, towers. And it's, you know, been really upsetting to see that facing where you feel like you have to keep your blinds closed so that you don't have to look at that. Um, when the lights went on, we were really surprised because originally we were told, and I was at the very first meetings, that the buildings would not have any lights shining down into our property at all. And also that the building height would not exceed much above the fence. just a little south in by the in the culdesac, the um buildings that are across from me in the culdesac have a um storage unit that is built for huge vehicles and such and so it comes up higher than the rest of them. So it faces their bedroom when they were building it. She said she got up in the morning and there were workmen right there in her in right next to her, you know, building. So, I don't know if that poses a fire hazard or a problem there, but the height again wasn't what was agreed to. So, our only thing that we can see is hopefully all the lights go out uh on that tower because it's very unnecessary. It's not serving any purpose ex because they have plenty of um uh advertising as it is and um I just appreciate working with Jared because he can see that we look like we've been

living in Oz. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] I'll just add while the next one's coming up, right? The pictures don't do it justice. Like if you go out there, it's it's pretty bright. It is bright.

Hi, good evening. Matt Prince. Um, I live right off of Black Powder. Um, just want to reiterate, same concerns with the gate with with safety. Um, you said you wanted ideas. I think at least from the res the neighborhood residents that I've talked to, we don't want to see any access, right? Which was the the intent. Um, even if we close off the dedicated pedestrian access, which is there right now, which we would was a great idea. Love that idea. With the current gate style, there's still pedestrian access. somebody can easily, very very easily get through in and out of that gate uh for whatever mal intent they may have. Right? That's I think the main concern is is the safety of the neighborhood and and um also like was mentioned little kids right next to the park. Um I got a 2-year-old and a four-year-old and a six-year-old that you turn your head, they're going to be uh running out, right? And we we we utilize that park. So anyways, appreciate you you're paying attention to the matter. So thank you.

Thank you, Matt. [applause]

First of all, thank you for your time. Appreciate it. My name is Rebecca Parker. I live right off of Black Potter as well. So, just east of that gate. My main concern is the safety issue. As everybody reiterates, it is not a well secure gate. In the original plans that I looked at, it said it was a chain link breakaway fence. It's not at all. as you can see from the pictures um not only the concerns for children but I have watched teenagers go in and out of that constantly since it's been being developed um is also safety of animals too going across to Mountain View corridor so if we could address those concerns of that safety that would really help secure our neighborhood appreciate your time thank you

thank you Rebecca Hello, I'm Brenda Campama and I've only been living in Haramman for a year and six months. Um, I came here from a place filled with nature and beauty and skies that I could see the stars and so I was a little disappointed actually coming here but my children are here so I'm here. [laughter] However, there are very many beautiful places in the city. But where I used to look out my window and I'd look past the walls and try not to hear the traffic and look up and I could see the stars and it was really nice until I looked out one day and there were neon green sign in my window and my neighbors that are closer. It's even worse. So now I'm wondering I I don't know what you can do about it. I know you're willing to do something and I'm not very clever on a lot of things, but I'm wondering about these if we couldn't have the windows if you can't do anything else. Can these people's windows be replaced so that you know that light isn't shining blindingly into their bedroom? Something if you can't do anything else. And I don't know what I'm going to do about seeing the stars. I'll have to go to my daughter's house. Thank you for listening.

Thank you, Brenda. [applause]

Preston, you don't live over there. I do not, but my daycare is there. Yeah. [laughter]

All right. I'm about to uh probably not hopefully you all still like me after. Um my name is Preston Oberg. Uh good evening Marin City Council. I'm actually a resident of Herman. I don't live in the area. I do commute into that area daily. [snorts] Um [clears throat] I my my comments regarding this access point. I actually come from a different perspective. I believe that if I had been a part of the planning commission at that time, I would have been strongly opposed to the closing of the road. I actually think it should be open. Um, I advocate for the full opening of the road for a lot of reasons. Uh, first of all, I believe that the decision to close the road, while intended, is for meaning to listen to the residents, was counter to good planning practices and connectivity. A core principle of urban planning and traffic engineering states, [clears throat] "Never under any circumstances, construct a new road that will tend to divert traffic from a major artery onto local neighborhood streets." [snorts] Uh, the closure of this road actually runs counter to that concept. Instead of traffic flowing out of the neighborhood onto a major corridor, it forces the flow through a significant and confusing amount of neighborhood streets. Uh, [snorts] some interesting points. There are three daycarees and preschools at the very minimum found in this neighborhood. To access these daycarees, you must enter and pass through nearly 2 mi of neighborhood. There's a large programmable park in the heart of the neighborhood that hosts various youth sports programs. This traffic is also forced to filter through these neighborhoods. This area, by my count, has 700 residents with only three access points. It is already closed off to the Riverton side. Fully opening this road would reduce neighborhood traffic, not increase it. That would improve safety, not reduce it. [snorts] Because drivers would flow onto the major corridor over navigating through the neighborhood. There are businesses newly opening to the west side of Mountain View corridor. It is common sense that greater access could also increase patronage there.

Opening this road would improve access for many of those 700 residents. Um [snorts] I know I'm out of time, but I just reiterate that I strongly actually oppose the closure of this road and would like reconsideration of that. You want to go sit by Cody now so we can protect you? [laughter] Thank you, Preston.

Love you, Preston.

Um, my name is Rachel Nay and I live in the circle that is actually behind Black Powder. So, what we get is the traffic to the park and we also get the traffic that is trying to cut through from 118 to 126. I have four children. When we bought the house, we were super excited cuz it had a backyard and my children wanted to play there. However, they didn't. They wanted to play in the front yard because they could use their scooters and slide down the driveway and they had lots to do. And um so for me the idea is a safety issue and I don't believe opening the road is going to um impact the traffic. I think it will increase traffic and increase the fear as a mother who sends her child outside hoping that there will be responsible residents driving or responsible drivers coming through the area which several times we've had drunk drivers driving through. We've had to put up signs to say please slow down. Please watch. Be watchful of the children. And so, no, I think opening up a passage to include more traffic is not the solution. It is to close it and to secure the safety of [cough] the kids, not the accessibility for other drivers.

Thank you. [applause]

Correct. Correct. My name is Morgan Bangader and I live on Friszzone Way, which is like the culde-sac sack that comes off of Black Powder. Um I was today years old when I learned that Preston is our planning commissioner, I think. Is that LinkedIn told me? Okay. So, thank you for your service. I do appreciate it. Um one of the concerns that I have with the way that it's situated. Um you're going to have people coming with trailers to get their stuff from the storage unit. I am worried that they're going to prefer to come through our neighborhood rather than trying to get on to Mountain View corridor. Um, and then also the pedestrian access, uh, it makes it so people have to come into our neighborhood. The reason we were all opposed to the town homes and the high density was that there's already too much traffic inside of that neighborhood and it just is so clogged and if people are parked on both sides, it's really difficult. So to leave an access road that would then bring more into the neighborhood is a really difficult thing. Thank you. And thank you all. And no, I have no plans like [laughter]

Thanks, Morgan. [applause]

Okay, seeing no further public comment, we'll turn back to council. Any other thoughts? Sherry,

I'll just share. I was definitely part of the discussions when the MDA came about. Um, and whether it was detailed in the MD or not, my vision was definitely not what I see currently. I was actually pretty shocked when I saw the the gates. I had envisioned it would be like the black gates that we saw in the in the picture tonight was it would just be the intent was just to make it to where there was no access other than a fire access. That was my my understanding during the negotiations and and that that would be worked with with the fire department to understand exactly what kind of gate needed to go there. But I very much envisioned what you guys have been talking about. I was also very shocked to see the pedestrian access because it seems to me like it brings up a lot of safety issues, people walking in and out of there. I don't know what the stats are with some some maybe illicit activities sometimes going on in storage units, but that'd be a nice place to quietly pull up there and pick up what you needed and pull out undetected. I don't know. It it just seems like maybe it's not the best place to have pedestrian access, ebike access, motorcycle access, tiny car access, anything like that. I I I feel very much I agree with exactly what you guys have been saying. That was not my vision when we were discussing this. I had thought it would be a more substantial gate that you weren't going to walk through and the only purpose it was to serve was for the fire access because that was important. Well, maybe I'll I'll ask this of staff and Nathan maybe you know Todd I don't know my two questions are and maybe Whittison you may have to help too that's my first question do we have to have that access can we eliminate that somehow and two is will a rot iron fence as I think we're all envisioning does that meet the definition of a crash gate

so I think those two help us frame some options or a knock box accessible One of the issues you need to be cognizant of is that ADA issue is more for egress from the building. And there's nothing that says that this employer may hire somebody who's in a wheelchair. So, it's not just to access the site, but it's also to leave the site if you are in needing an accessible path away from the building and you're supposed to travel to a safe, you know, designation, a safe public space away from the building.

Yeah. The building he's talking about is the leasing building. So, that's what spurred the safe egress. It has to be ADA compliant, of course. And so there's discussion and I don't have the building official here to ask, but getting into the public space could be out into the road and maybe not all the way to black powder. So there might be an opportunity. We can look into that a bit more. Um, and then there's something else that spurred my mind.

I did see that there was a note as doing some research that it can have a gate though on that on that safe egress path. And and the other thing that brought up the sidewalk as I as I look through everything was where that required was required to be a public road. We have our public standard for roads. There was a deviation to the standard approved that allowed them to not put sidewalks on both sides and [cough] only go to one side and it was all in in you know in compliance with this egress and then the sidewalk on one side. Might be why there's space there because there's supposed to be a park strip and a sidewalk on a public road and we got rid of the park strip. put the sidewalk up against the curb.

Shortened up the the rideway width. Um, all in the name of being a public road so that you do would approve the access. So, my first question is, can we close it? Does it sound like we need to research on that? Probably get the building official. Okay. [clears throat] Okay. So, let's look into that. Okay. Woodison, can you speak to the fi the crash gate is I mean to me that you'd have to knock that down anyways if you're because that's locked, right? I'm assuming that's locked with the Well, there there's a chain and a pad chain and a pad lock.

We would just access it with a bolt cutter or it hopefully there would be a box that's there that we would have a key to as well. But so we could do that with the rod iron fence as well then. Correct. Yeah, as long as there's I'd have to work with uh Wade Watkins, fire marshall, just to make sure what I'm saying is accurate here, but just the intent would be secondary ingress and egress for that area, right? That if there is um it's the main entrance is blocked or there's mechanical fail failure with that other gate, there's a way for the fire department or public safety to get into that area or public to get out. I guess my first because my first thoughts were not an electronic gate. I don't think

for me it doesn't need to be electronic. You you put the the nice rod iron fence there on wheels. It's got the same work with the fire marshal, but I I mean I've seen plenty of other gates than what I've I'm looking Yeah. than what I've seen there. Right. It's just on wheels. You got the same Nox Knox box with the key. Unlock it, roll it up, roll it out, and we're good. Yeah. Ideally, it's a Nox box and we can gain access without causing any sort of damage or minimal. If not, there's bolt cutters or Yeah. Whatever. Jaws of life. Chop it up. So, I'm not trying to like short circuit this conversation. To me, it sounds like and I'm just if I'm hearing everything,

I think we need to do some research on let if we can do that and then if we can close the pedestrian access like I think those are the two or gate it, right? I think those are the two big issues. If we solve those, I think we're the lights and the lights. And I think Well, I think we Sorry, I just I think we addressed the lights. That's why Mayor I think hold on to Todd's got something. Sorry. Um part of the research also needs to include the UD do approvals and their permit if there was any additional stipulations or conditions that they put on it. Okay. I mean from from the proprietor's view I would want my commercial property enclosed and secure among having not having kids and children and

other people come through. they'll end up having as many of those issues as the residents. Yeah, for sure. So, and then I know the the fence was brought up about being painted. I'm pretty sure they're waiting for weather. It's probably not completed or 100% or signed off yet. So, those are a couple smaller things, but um [clears throat] thank you guys for painting some very detailed pictures of what what it's been to you and your life on those comments. So, mayor, would it be acceptable for the developer to come and and speak to some of these concerns? Yeah, sure. Chase, is that you? If you want to, we're not going to make you.

And I will say Chase was not with the developer when this happened either. So, Chase actually was our city attorney at Were you the city attorney at the time? I had been working here for about three weeks. Three weeks. Yeah. So, you can blame it all on me. Yeah. [laughter] Done. I think I think that's how it goes, right? your first year, you blame it on the old guy and then you have to take the credit after that. I'm hoping for eight years I can blame the old guy. [laughter]

No, I I I appreciate everybody coming tonight and and engaging in this discussion and sharing their concerns. We're obviously not trying to create safety concerns for the neighborhood. Also, all of the items that have been brought up really don't with regard to the gate really don't impact our business, right? We don't have a ton of wheelchair traffic users to storage site, right? Doesn't mean ADA requirements don't apply, but from a business perspective, we're fine to work towards a solution that closes that or changes the access there. Same thing with the gate. Our anticipation with the gate, at least according to the plain language of the development agreement, was that there would just be no vehicular access through there. We we feel like we accomplished that, but we also recognize that there might be additional concerns or thought thoughts or intent about what what was anticipated there. And to that end, we've had conversations with um staff about exploring some of those solutions, what those costs might be. We don't have hard quotes of, you know, hey, [cough] to change this to a rod iron gate, this is what that would be and the timing on all of that, but we're open to exploring those solutions um with staff and coming back and reporting on those. Yeah. Again, we're we're not dismissing any of the safety concerns. We we don't want to create those situations for the neighboring residents. And so to the end that you know it doesn't cost the city or us hundreds of thousands of dollars to you know mitigate those. We we're looking into those solutions with you and happy to cooperate.

Okay. Thank you, Chase. Okay. So, let me just try to summarize again. I'm not trying I mean our res Oh, yes.

Yes. Thank you. I I did forget about the lights. So, we met with we we met with Michael and Clint, I believe, and had a phone conversation with um Blake and Nathan, and that wasn't our intention either, to shine lights right into people's windows, right? We do have a business interest in making sure that our site has signage. As long as it's in accordance with city requirements and the development agreement, we're not trying to bypass those. One of the solutions that we kind of mutually came up with out of that meeting with staff was to dim the lights. um or I'm sorry to turn them off at 10 o'clock on an automatic switch so that they shut off. What I've heard from some of the residents tonight is that might not be happening and that's on us. I admittedly haven't been out there every night at 10:00 to see there are people that live there that are saying that that's not happening. So we need to contact, you know, our sign and light folks and say, "Hey, that's not happening the way it should be." Because that's what we committed to when we met with staff was to make sure that those shut off at 10:00 every night. I will add one of the other options that we had discussed was dimming them um at night when it became dark. We're happy to do that as well, right? And it explore that solution and to uh I think someone brought it up, you know, when it gets dark changes throughout the year, right?

Yeah. It's dark at 5:30 here. you know, we want to make sure that we still have some advertising um to the extent that it doesn't, you know, impact people um unreasonably according to the standards adopted by the city. So, same as with the gate, we're open to exploring those solutions, making sure not just that we're in compliance with city code, but also that we're being good neighbors and come to some amicable solution on that. Okay. Can I ask question? Um so, what would it look like to turn the lights off at 8:00 p.m. instead of 10 p.m.? Is that something that you'd be interested in exploring or willing to explore?

Absolutely. I'm not the one to make that decision. Um, but I'm happy to to take that up. I'm going to be firm and push that we ask them to just not light them at all. As I pointed out, there's a thousand ft of frontage that is extremely well lit [applause] there. And and the reason that I that I went out there and took those pictures and measurements, was to I knew what would kind of in this setting it's difficult to

Yeah. It's difficult to to really appreciate what it's like on the ground even from those pictures. But and I I tried tried to really go out of my way to make that point. If I'm a business, I want I want signage. I want I want my business to be seen. There's there's no shortage of that a thousand feet of lighted signage there. that one and I understand how it was over I mentioned I understand how it was overlooked on on our side of things and the code is lacking. Um I one that's number one on my list. We need to change that ordinance to residential not single family. It doesn't matter what type of housing it is. Residential if you're living you shouldn't have to to to live that way. [applause]

So I I I don't need applause. I can come and talk to you afterwards and shake your hand and shake your hand and we'll get you out of here faster if there's less [laughter] applause.

Thank you. Um so I I'm going to just pointedly say that that's going to be our ask. So for for the audience tonight and anybody watching um we the way that this works, we cannot vote on anything tonight. That's not how the process works. Right. Right now we need and I made a point earlier of saying that the developer the business owners have been very good neighbors so far. They've been very manageable talking to us and working through these things. I view these things as oversight, right? Um we just we just missed things because when the council approves the MDA, not the planning commission. Planning commission couldn't override the the road opening if even if they wanted to. That was the city council and the MDA um and our decision. But from the time we make that decision, we never see this again, right? It it never comes back to us. They their plans don't come to us. It Right. So it it from [snorts] the time of the main decision, it goes through the hands of several different departments on both our end and the developer and builder's end. And so when it comes to these lights, they built the building and they put the lights on the end like they're supposed to be. They're lit the way that the plans were drawn up that that was approved because it it to it was just something that I think was was missed. And I have every confidence that we'll be able to to work with Chase and his team to to get the solution there. But I want to be clear that that that's the one that I'll be pushing for and driving for as we have that conversation. Again, that's option number one. That's easy. Second one is that if they if they don't want to do that, we we can't force them the way that the ordinance and the laws are written. But we can go through that secondary process that's in the ordinance to to have that kind of those competing interests be heard by um in this case, I keep pointing to Blake. I forget the term that's in the ordinance, but that's him. um to

community development director

community development director right to to hear that and find solutions which then the next stage would be dimming it but as pointed I mean it's 300 ft between that end that's pointing towards the neighborhood and the rest of it is just not needed um so be clear that like that's number number one is the ordinance I would ask for support we direct staff to look at changing the ordinance second direct staff to work with um whoever we need to developer the end user whoever the responsible party is at this point to get the the light turned off further. I think we should um I think comment was made might um I wrote it all down. I think it might have been Stephanie um or Rebecca. Um maybe we need to look at putting some more trees and things in that space as well because it's not just the light,

right? because it's a two I didn't I didn't know that there was going to be basically a two-story building there that really is just used for signage and just that twotory building right in and of itself so maybe some more trees that are there is is a great idea so the solutions that people have suggested very much appreciated and I and then can we just our the expectation we clearly communicated was no access divide the commercial from the residential give the residents that assurance all the safety concerns that were brought up um are absolutely legitimate and there were several brought up. I hadn't even considered, you know, kids wandering out there, pet pets wandering out there. That's not just danger for the pets, but for the but for the traffic, right? Those sorts of things. So, can we close the pedestrian access? I I'll be shocked if if we can't when we look down at it, right?

Um and then the the gate, I think, is is easy. And like I said, Chase and his team been really good to to work with us and want to be good neighbors. And whether that's them agreeing to do it all or we have to have some skin in the game because that is the way the agreement was, I'm more than willing to look at what we need to do to do that. So the ordinance um the light look at maybe some options for additional screening um the pedest closed pedestrian access and the type of gate that was clearly given the expectation in several different times whether it was meetings um phone calls etc. I think we were all under kind of that impression expectation. Chase, is is the project complete?

Yes. Okay. So, any additional painting or trees or um landscaping right now or no? You know, I don't know if there's any additional punch list items um to clear planning. I know that we did receive final sign off and we're able to open the site. Um but I don't have that answer for you. There's minor punch list items like that that [cough] still need to be done. [snorts] Awesome. Checking it out.

Okay. So, like Jared was saying, we can't give we can't decide on anything tonight. We will take this. We will do what we can. I think you saw the urgency from us by having this on the next possible meeting we could. We don't have a meeting again in December. Government takes time. Unfortunately, I think we've all had to learn. None of us are patient people. We've had to learn. We have to be patient in this role. So, bear with us. We'll we'll do what we can. We'll start taking off the boxes, the lighting, what we can get taken care of right away and then we'll look towards solutions. We'll come back to you probably have Jared since he knows most of you seem to be communicating with most of you then he can keep you posted along the way is what and we're coming along before we come back and this will have to come back for a decision probably a

well I mean we're we're just giving direction to staff to look into those things. There's no timeline or anything but we'll I I'll definitely communicate back to you and and let you know if there's another meeting where where it's going to be discussed. When we make a decision, it will be on an agenda. That's what I was getting at. If the ordinance is in title 10, so it requires a planning commission process as well. So, it's not it a different section of the code. We could bring it back straight to council. This one has to go through to reuse the ordinance. Yeah. That'll be for future but not the other approvals. Yeah. Yep.

So, again, thank you for being here tonight. Truly, like we mean that. Thank you for your feedback, your comments. Thank you for being involved in this process. Thank you for trusting us to to come to us that we're going to come up with solutions for you. Um, thank you Jared for working with so many of the residents. Um, and we'll keep in touch on that, I guess. So, thank you. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Thank you for coming tonight. Reach out to any of us if you have any questions or concerns. Um, and we'll keep you updated on this process. So, thank you for being here tonight. Uh, we will move on to go ahead. Okay, go ahead. We'll keep going. You're okay. As a council, we're going to keep moving along. So,

um, feel free to, of course, leave if you need to. Um, we're going to move on to 11.2 review and consider proposed amendments to the Panorama MDA to modify the project boundaries without changing units and clarify procedures regarding potential administrative approval of residential lots. Michael,

thank you. I will um give a presentation focusing on process and what is being requested in this amendment. Um as you know uh Chase Andrezy is here representing DAI Utah as the applicant and uh he can address some of the uh more perhaps detailed questions you have on the development itself. Um, as mentioned in your staff report, there had been a previous um, administrative amendment to this MDA, which is allowed within the agreement. There are some items that do require council approval, and that is partially what is being presented to you tonight. As is typical, the council has asked the planning commission to review and make recommendations on these MDA U requests. Um, and the planning commission did do that. They forwarded a recommendation to approve voting six to zero. And as you know, the council's role is to consider this amendment. And you have the final decision authority in this this item. Um, this is the approximate area of this development agreement. Um, this was the development plan specific to Panorama, the MDA in this area. Um, but as the council is aware, it actually is intertwined with two other agreements, um, including the Rose MDA, which is an older development agreement, and then South Hills further to the south is also another one that's by Wasatch Commercial. The elements of the proposal are fairly specific. Um they are making some adjustments to their boundaries largely addressing uh some issues with uh property that is currently owned by the school district. They uh also identified or we identified during a subdivision review uh within

this project that the double frontage lots that were being shown in the subdivision plat were on u what we could consider a local street. Typically we cities try to avoid having double frontage lots for obvious reasons. When they occur they typically are happening on a larger road like an arterial or collector road. This case we have double fronted lots that are both local roads front and back. And our ordinance doesn't allow for that. It wasn't addressed in the MDA per se. Um, so we're we're proposing some additional standards as to when that might be allowed under the authority of the administration and then they are also proposing an upgrade or an amendment to the grading plan and then also the village plan. I'll just quickly show you these exhibits that are in your packet. Um, the original site that is owned by the Jordan School District is rectangular. Uh but in making this change, it's now of a kind of a geomorphic shape that extends fully out to this proposed Blooming Rose Boulevard. Um so there's a property exchange that's happening. Essentially, it's it's almost equal. I haven't seen the final um property uh description, but I'm told that it's essentially an equal trade. Uh but the boundary itself is being adjusted, and that does require council approval. This is a map showing where these uh current uh currently projected double frontage lots occur within the project. There could be others, but this is uh where we've currently have identified those. Um when we identified this issue, the applicant was very uh had great deference to the city and basically said why don't you uh draft some potential standards

associated with the development of double frontage lots? What what are the concerns that we see? How would we try to mitigate that? The these are the seven uh criteria that are in the um proposed amendment. Um I believe that the applicant is wanting to address some of these with you tonight. Um but those are those are in the proposal right now. Uh this again is the the grading and retaining plan uh that is in the exhibit. And then lastly this village plan. Now this is the adopted village plan. You can see this white section adjacent to Mountain View corridor. That's actually some property that is owned by South uh excuse me by Wasach Commercial for future commercial development, not part of the uh Panorama project. Um this next image, the proposed village plan, they actually are still showing that just for context, but technically it's not in their MDA. This is outside of their MDA boundary. That's that purple front uh uh parcel and kind of that brownish u extended rectangular parcel near Mountain View corridor. Um the other thing that became uh an interest or concern to the city staff is [clears throat] the MDA says that the applicant can increase um units within these different villages but no more than 10 without council approval. And you see that in village one they're proposing to increase it by 15. Um you'll also see that there are decreases elsewhere. Um but again that that change just exceeded staff's ability to approve that as a as a technical or a minor modification. So that was another element that had to be presented to the city council tonight. Um these were the recommendations that staff had prepared for planning commission consideration. Um they're in your packet. uh they were

recommended by the planning commission and I believe the applicant was um accepting of these recommendations and they have been included again in the draft materials. Um a number of um if there are any associated maps that need further amendments that is something actually that we can do administratively. Um, so I have that just flagged in here just saying that any exhibits that conflict with the proposal that they would be amended and we would work with the applicant on on finalizing that. Again, that is under the authority of the administrator. Um, so again, any questions as far as the process or what is being requested for me? And if not, if you have more specific questions about the development itself, then uh the applicant can address those for you. Did you come up with the standards yet on what you would recommend for double frontage lots?

So those are the seven that we had drafted. We shared them with the applicant. Um I believe because he had some conflict conflicts in his schedule. Uh Chase was not able to give me his feedback before the staff report was published, but I understood after the fact that he had some some concerns or some questions and I don't know specifically which of these seven he might have some feedback for you on. Again, this was totally developed by staff. This was not something that was proposed by by DAI. I'm assuming there's some graph or great uh elevation changes throughout each road and each road height on on some of those areas.

Again, you'll see obviously we have an amended grading plan. So again, the the applicant can speak to you on that. Okay. One of the things that they've they have been trying to do with this amendment is to um work with the natural topography more. So this plan uh reduces the amount of material that they have to displace or remove from the site. Um so that was one of their objectives in making this this exchange with the the school district.

Okay, [snorts] Chase, do you want to

Thank you, Michael. Yeah, I think we're Good evening, council. Chase Andrezy here for the applicant. Um, appreciate Michael walking through that. Really the impetus for this amendment was a change in the boundary with Jordan School District. Um, as you can see, this was the original plan. Sorry, Michael. I'm going to go through your slides again and figure out which one. Okay, this is this is a better way to kind of switch back and forth for the comparison that Jordan School District site as you can see here in the original um in working with them and the adjacent property owner they were able to realign that. So Jordan school district has 12 or 12 and a half acres right here and they were able to keep the same acreage and just move it all onto that that backbone road and have their access off of there rather than through the neighborhood which was preferred for Jordan School District. And with that, we were also able to acquire some additional property in there and through that realign much of that village for neighborhood from kind of the straight north, south, east, west road alignment that you've got there to something that actually jives a little bit more with the natural topography. And really what we were able to to do is save about 700,000 cubic yards of hauloff. And for context, I mean, I don't I don't have any idea what that means. I'm sure Blake and Bryce understand how much that is. Um, that's about one year of hauloff by staker. Um, or the equivalent of four football fields each filled with material 100 ft high. So, it's a substantial amount of dirt that was planned on being moved to accommodate this plan. Um, we've been able to eliminate much of that haul off. And what [clears throat] that has also enabled us to do to Michael's point is change a little bit of the lot layouts

in village 4 under the original plan. As you can see, those are mostly 50 foot lots and 65 foot lots. We've been able to make these larger lots on village 4. Um, and we've then shifted some of those units over to village one. That table on the lefth hand side again calls out where those changes have have gone and where those units have uh have have moved from and to. And I'll point out with that it hasn't been a change from single family to town homes or single families to apartments. It's single family to single family from one village to another. We're not increasing the number of apartments or town homes. Um we're simply making larger lots along village four where we've been able to save some of that material and [clears throat]

for village five it increases those right it does yeah village five council member or increases by 10 town homes y yeah but but yeah village four gets so um that that was really the impetus for the amendment and with that in working with Michael and the planning staff we've been able to you know capture a few cleanup things that don't really change the nature of the entitlement, more just consistency throughout the exhibits and um you know details as as Jared points out. So happy to answer any questions or address anything else that you aren't clear on. Questions did you guys have questions on

Yeah. Did you have any feedback on the seven? On the seven? Oh no. I was just giving Michael a hard time. I didn't want him to think his job was going to be that easy. So, um I mean I I looked at them. An attorney always wants to redline stuff, but really we're fine with those. It's not a primary design for us to have double fronted lots, but we also view it as maybe just a side effect of what we've been able to accomplish with preserving some of the topography and changing some of the lot layouts. But I think what Michael has proposed here is reasonable and doesn't really affect what we do in terms of developing those lots and having a builder come in and build those.

My only hesitation on the double frontage. I know we're going to put in there that the homeowner is responsible for the backyard, if you will. I just don't know if that's going to happen. I just because I I think that's already the case in some areas in the city and it doesn't happen. Like I get calls constantly from like that's shouldn't the city be plowing that? No, that's the resident but then they're like no that's not my so there is that that's my concern. It's a concern and I don't know how to and we have an interest in you know overseeing the whole community making sure that those are also maintained. I think that adds to the value of the community and so to that end we're happy to support whatever means we think we can come up with to do that.

Is this an HOA development? It is, but that's within the public rightway. That's a public rideway through all of those. Um, let me go to that map. So, that village four where you see the majority of those lots. Um, all of those are public rightways within there and the sidewalk. Um, and again, we talked about this in the planning commission and I forgot to add it to or bring it up the road crosssection, right, to show what that looks like there. Um, there will be a park strip on one side. Ryan, do you recall off the top of your head? Are you concerned about them cleaning? What are you concerned about? Like shoveling the sidewalks on the backyard.

They're not going to go walk around all the way around, especially if it's fence and not going to walk around. It's the same issue. I'll narrate as as he points about what what would need to be maintained, right? If anything, on the back of those four or the front.

Yeah. So we'll have a buffer there the recommendations.

So there won't be sidewalks on both sides of the road there. No.

I'm just going to narrate what he's saying so everybody else can hear. There will be an 8ft trail on the front side of those homes. To Teddy's question, is there enforcement from the HOA then? If they're not maintaining the they're not shoveling any or if they're not maintaining is there enforcement from I don't want the HOA only enforces within the private common area and the private Well, that's what I'm saying. So, are we adding are we taking on cost right now as a city by allowing this

any any sidewalk you build, we take that on. Uh if they're saying the the way that because if I recall, it's been a long time, but the the cross-section you're talking about, we only required the trail on one side of the road. The other side is just a curb. And so you're saying you're you're intent is to put the sidewalk on the uphill side of these lots. On the front of the lots. Yeah. Because generally you would want to access from the uphill going down. It's easier. But uh that so if they're building those it it's not like it's it's the same as any other sidewalk. The ones we really struggle with are like along the arteros. I think what your concern is

all their back fins. Yeah. Um 100%. Yeah. Yeah. We do we do struggle. If that's not the case here, maybe that's not an issue. But every public road that he put on there, we uh we call them assets. their liabilities from now forever they're ours but I don't know how we get away from that. Yeah. Okay. I mean it's just a thought. I mean they're like that in like even like on 7300 where the concrete walls are there. Nobody comes over there and shovels the sidewalk back there. I guess that's what I'm envisioning. That's what I'm exactly what I'm envisioning. But there's not there's not a sidewalk on the majority of those. you would say

on the back on the back side. I should point out so I'm jumping again road all of these lots in village 4 where that denser cluster is they all front kind of to the southwest the interior road

so the back the back looks out over the valley the front looks into the mountain if that makes sense. So you'll have your sidewalk along the front of those and the backyard will be up against the road to as Ryan pointed out. But again, the condition or the recommendation from the planning staff was that number seven, within a rear yard of a double fronted lot, there shall be a 5-ft minimum setback from the sidewalk. That that doesn't fix your problem, but what it does is it also doesn't put a fence right on sidewalk on the right up against the curb. Right? There's a buffer there, but that leaves that buffer to be maintained. Maintain. Yeah. Right. Which was which was what mayor brought up of that concern. And that's where the HOA can step in because that's private property, right? We can come in and say because you go to lot line,

right? Okay. You can have a master um or a neighborhood HOA come in and say, "Hey, you're not This is also PID." Yes. Okay. Besides snow removal, like is there going to be would there be grass there then? Like water wise in the backyard? Yeah. Well, no. In that buffer between the fence and the road, would that would someone need to go back there and weed then if So, that would be per city code. Um, and I don't I can't recall what the backyard landscaping requirements are off the top of my head or what that buffer requirement. There is backyard landscaping requirements. Yeah. But from the back of the fence to the property line. Yeah.

So, if we have a five foot min five foot setback, we've got five foot to the back of that trail or the curb I guess. Right. Mayor, may I ask a question? Yes. I don't know if it's Chas or Ryan. If you go back to the layout, what if you're saying there's on some of these there's there's no park strip or sidewalk on one side of the street. What if there are front-facing homes next door to those lots? They they're facing front and the their neighbors the back. Then what is there a sidewalk and park on those or no? No, they go right that property line goes right to the curb. To the curb. Yeah. Okay.

And on the adjacent side would be the sidewalk for that for that rideway requirements. The seven requirements. The last one. There might be a little concern where we're requiring a five foot space between the rideway and the fence. If that's the case, if there's no sidewalk, that will create a park strip that wasn't going to be there before. Correct. It's it's private though in that case, right? Yeah. Private. It's private, but it's not going to get maintained, right? But it could end up maintained. And again, we're we're not saying,

you know, that's exactly how we want it. We're saying, let's figure out a solution to that. We're we're we're on board to try to say, okay, we recognize that that's going to be an issue if we need to put a plat note or have some additional CCNRs to address that. Um, I mean, that's all we can, right? So, then why do we have the five feet I think because if you have a front yard and a backyard right next to each other, you kind of want to make that keep that open feeling so you're not having cars back out with a fence right up to the corner. If I'm if I'm my home's facing this way and my neighbor's backyard runs right up along my Can you go to that map?

I'll even acknowledge that that you've got a sixoot privacy fence that runs all the way through my front yard. Right. At least there's a five foot buffer to give me some that lot, but your neighbor has to maintain it on your side of the fence. Well, the HOA or the whatever or your double fronted lot neighbor might not maintain that 5 foot buffer and you've got that unsightly you know, but again, it's a private property HOA issue that can be resolved through that. It it's going to end up being a code enforcement issue, I think, which is

I don't know how it sounds like you're trying to angle all the lots the same direction. I don't know how often the one lot facing this way and the other facing the other direction is going to happen. Well, on this map is that bottom four on that same street. Yeah. To your point, Nathan, that the the situation where that would occur would happen on that one individual double fronted lot. It's adjacent neighbor that faces kind of northeast. That will be one. Yeah. And that's really it. The other one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. You got one more on the four. Yeah, it's touching a It is. Yeah, it kind of comes in at a steeper angle, but yeah, you're right, Teddy. There is one there, too. Yeah.

So, we've tried to minimize that as much as possible. The kind of five that are up higher on the mountain. Those do front a neighborhood road, but there's going to be a buffer there behind the a walkway, and you don't really have any other homes that are the one in the culdesac there or that that half turn. It's not going to have that scenario. So, I mean, I don't want to belabor it. I just I want to make sure there's something from the HOA or somebody that's gonna because again, I don't know if we can avoid it. It's all over the city right now, but I'm just trying not to add additional cost right now to us because because that's my biggest frustration. I just there's so much of this go on that nobody care nobody takes care of. Nobody

my if I can make a recommendation obviously this is your guys's item to vote on but you know we're we're comfortable I know this doesn't solve all the problems but it's another layer maybe to add to it is just including a plat note on final plats for any neighborhood and containing those that you know those neighbors are responsible for any buffer on lots right I mean we have people not playing with their friend driving too so I mean it's not so there's no there's No perfect [cough] hasn't been any snow to plow. That's true. There probably won't ever be snow again in Haramman. So the way it's going [snorts] there won't be any weeds. So right. Yeah. I think there'll be an easy I think there's some easy things you can do there to mitigate a lot of the ongoing maintenance.

I would just say let's put that in the motion then that there's just being noted with the plat if we could and I'm okay with that. So let's do a motion on this. I'll make a motion to approve resolution number R60-2025 approving the panum master development agreement first amendment with respect to the approximately 319.7 acres of real property located on approximately 15202 South Mountain View corridor with the exception to the double-facing lots that they'll have some sort of plat amendment um when they are platted the worst a plat note.

A plat note when they are platted. Okay, I'll take that motion by Teddy. Second. Second by Sherry. Uh Teddy, yes. Sherry, yes. Tara, yes. And I'll vote yes. We will note that Jared has stepped out so he's not here to take that vote. Okay, we'll go to 113. Uh remove city code 1-6-8. Todd, um on video tonight?

I don't. Uh this is a rather simple amendment. We're just updating the code to match what we are currently doing. There's an organiz organizational chart uh that's listed in city code. Um which means that anytime that there's a change in the organization, it would would need to be approved by the council. We have gone away from that. There are uh this is more of a a small town I want control over the minutia um type of an issue. Uh so there's already um security in place as far as the job classifications that the council uh has uh discretion over um budgets, that sort of thing where taking this out allows the city manager to um make some changes in with within the organization that doesn't need to come back to council.

Okay, I'll look for a motion. I'll make a motion to approve ordinance number 2025-27 amending the Herman City Code section 1-6-8 to remove outdated reference to the city organizational chart. I'll second and that will be Sherry's final motion. Oh, we'll do the we'll do have we'll have do the motion to adjurnn. Okay. Motion by Sherry, second by Tara. Uh Jared. Sure. Teddy. Yes. Sherry. Yes. Terret. Yes. Want to vote? Yes. No, it's not that one yet.

Okay. Future meetings. Planning commission meeting the 17th of December. Next city council meeting. I like this. The 14th of January. There's also the um swearing in I know that I was going to get to that. Uh events coming up. Herman Coral. That already happened. Corral. Skip that one. Oh, that is I I heard it was great. Paint night coming up on Friday night. Uh that's a sign up. So make sure you look for signups if you're interested. Wreaths across America, please come out. The best um amazing ceremony. Teddy's featured this week. Um Santa Teddy is um 9:00 at the SE cemetery. It's going to be warm. It's going to be nice and warm actually. So I've been out there bundled up.

This is going to be a lot. Not that I love that it's going to be 50° Saturday. I do practice it, too. Great. Question. Some of our calendars say 10 on that. Is it 9 or 10? Oh yeah. What time is reads across? Mine says 10. 10's on the right. At 10. We have staff walk through at 9ine. Hold please. I believe my calendar shows 10. I think the staff the staff showing up at 9. It is 10. Yeah, it's 10 o'clock. 10 o'clock. It's at 9ine on my calendar. Well, this the walkthrough is at 9:00. I have walkthrough at 8. Oh. Oh. Were you not in the right time zone when it set? I don't know.

We will find out and we will get back to you tomorrow for sure. We'll double check that. Like it's always at 10 though. Oh, lied. 8:00 is set up. 9:00 is walk through 10. There we go. Okay. 10:00 is race across America orchestra concert, by the way. Great orchestra. That's the 14th. Uh 7 o'clock at night. Um winter, this is a pretty cool new event. Winter Solstice Light Festival and Hike December 20th at the Black Ridge Reservoir Trail Head. The city hall will be closed 24th and 25th. And it's not on here. Swearing in ceremony for the new council. Oh, there is another page. Oh, there it is. I just didn't get to

is Monday, January 5th at 5:00 p.m. Everybody is invited to that. I think we're going to do a little bit fancier this year with maybe some quick speeches and cake. So, we'd encourage everybody to be here. Graduation, even Jared, even though you're not getting sworn in again, it'd be nice to have all the council here. So, okay. Uh, we do have a close. So, I'll look forward. Did anybody bring their little thing up? Nope. I did. Oh, Sherry's going to do the la there's her last

closed. I make a motion to temporarily recess the city council meeting to go into closed meeting for the following purposes provided in Utah state code annotated 52-4-205 strategy session to discuss pending or reasonable imminent litigation. Okay. Motion by Sherry. Second. [cough] Second by Teddy. Uh Tara. Yes. Sherry. Yes. [snorts] Teddy. Yes. Jared. Sure. Shar yes. So I'll move back into the council chambers or into the work room. Port Haramman. We need Todd, Council, Nathan, Wendy, Blake. Anybody else? Okay. Thank you everybody. Merry Christmas.