Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

What are they doing? Um, it's not six 30 sec. It's six o'clock according to according to my honestly honestly if you want to serve the city at the same time they have the g I'm sorry what they were giving it for the facility for the plan few months

he just went to finish up the four with their uh lane lane is aware that meeting starts at six today so he greased It was It was 559, but it's okay. I understand.

Is it time now? Okay. The meeting is called to order. Uh the on the agenda roll call. Commissioner Simmons here. Commissioner Jacobson here. Commissioner Chang here. Chair St. John here. Commissioner Baron here. Vice Chair Woodson. You have quorum. Thank you.

Okay. A moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance. People volunteer for the pledge. I'd be happy with you. Thank you.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Okay. Special announcements and communications from the floor. We have any. There are none on export communications for matters from the commissioners.

Yes. So, I just for full disclosure, uh, Commissioner Baron yesterday asked for a site visit to the car dealership site. So, I drove her out there and we talked about the trees on the property. Um, I did receive questions from Commissioner Chang and Jacobson and from Commissioner uh Woodson, and I will be addressing those questions in the body of the presentation. And thank you, Quido. Any any others? Right. Actually, you don't need to address anything in my statement, Guido.

That doesn't need to be addressed. Okay. The next item is pertains to the cassette agend consent agenda. Approval of the minutes from the March 26th meeting. There are any discussions or corrections to the minutes? Do I have a motion? I make a motion approve the minutes on March 26, 2026. I'll

second. Thank you. All in favor? We doing majority vote? We we've been doing roll call for the last four years, so I'll just keep doing that. So, Commissioner Simmons, yes. Commissioner Jacobson, yes. Commissioner Chang, yes. Chair St. John, yes. Commissioner Baron, yes. Vice Chair Woodson, yes. A motion approved.

Okay. Thank you. The next item, we start uh public hearings tonight. We have two public hearings on the agenda. The first one concerns the MercedesBenz car dealership, address 21101 First Avenue. The second item is a gas station drive-thru conditional use permit address 30001 second item. So let's start with the first one. The Mercedes-Benz car dealership. Do we have a presentation?

You ask. I'm just pulling it up now. So, okay.

I said uh good evening commission. I will be the project planner for this. So just to provide some context uh the property is basically in the south westmost corner of the of the entire city. Devarte actually is the boundary between seaside and marina. It's shown as opportunity area three in the original specific plan adopted in 2005. Um this is just some addressing to show its relationship to um the uh overall residential uh units within the dunes and then the phase 4 opportunity is in general where the Kaiser site would potentially go. This site is opportunity area 3.2. So this is the general architecture. So there are two permits before the planning commission today. one's basically for a design review permit for the building and then the tree removal permit. So, uh the proposed architecture is a basically approximately a 57,000 ft² building consisting of contemporary two-story commercial building design architectural style consistent with current automotive dealership branding standards. The by primary showroom that's a complemented by lower adjoining elements. Uh the front elevation is characterized by prominent glazed showroom facade extending approximately two stories in height which provides transparency and visual connectivity

between the interior display area and the public realm. The project is consistent with all of the city's development standards. And just for just point of reference, the actual Mercedes-Benz site is approximately 6.1 acres. It's, as I've said, 56,000 square ft. There'll be approximately 80 employees at the site. And uh it's it's consistent with the parking and all the other standards identified in the staff report. Um so this is a design review permit before the planning commission. So I did spend quite a bit of time trying to be very thoughtful about the conditions of approval. Um we did take uh the tree permit to planning commission. So there is a condition of approval regarding uh tree 712 and 752 which we'll talk about more later. Um the property does abut residential. Um, the original condition of approval I had was potentially green curbing the front, but in speaking with the applicant, uh, there were concerns that having limited parking could affect the overall business model of the operation of the dealership. So, I've drafted some additional language just basically to say within one year of operation of the business that the applicant will work with the city to do some type of parking study to assess how the business is integrated into the overall dunes development. Um, I am asking for a traffic control plan terms of ensuring uh construction activity and limiting limiting disruption to neighborhood properties. that's identified as condition of approval number 30. Um, we are uh asking that there not be a

loudspeaker within the car dealership. They've already indicated that it's not part of their business model. Um, but we just want I just wanted to put it on the permit just to be safe. Um, they have a they'll have a silent paging system that they'll use as part of their operation. Um, lighting at a commercial development is really important to make customers feel uh that it's safe, that it's inviting, but we do want to have some controls over that. So, you can review condition of approval 25, just basically asking for a more detailed lighting plan u that all approved potentially prior to issuance of building permit. And then there is a language in that condition which which had on the last four or five years of permits that the city does retain the right to modify the lighting if there be if lighting becomes an issue with the neighborhood. So the design review permit is consistent with the 2000 general plan. Um by approving a design review permit within opportunity area 3.2, two, there will be a balance of land uses supported within general plan policy 4.79. And for general plan policy 2.38, um the city will be capturing more local and regionally generated sales uh directly implementing general plan policy 2.38. Signage. So signage is an important part of any commercial development, especially a car dealership. Um, so the original site was supposed to be more of an office type use. So within the DUNES uh master sign program, there is language that if there's a substantial deviation from the original DUNES master sign program that the

applicant will submit a master sign program for the site. So I have put that as condition number 27 that prior to occupancy of the building the applicant will be required to submit a master sign program for review and approval by the planning commission. Um there is a monument sign that the applicant has worked out with the city council as part of the incentive package. This is the conceptual design. The commission doesn't necessarily have jurisdiction over this, but your input is important tonight when I take this item to city council in terms of the look and feel and if there's any other general comments. So, uh the next uh permit before the planning commission tonight is a tree removal permit. Um, we do have some newer planning commissioners. So, I will kind of explain the overall history. So, about a year and a half ago, a tree removal permit was filed for the overall phase three of the dunes, which included this site, the Kaiser site, and the residential within the dunes. Um, the tree committee did look at look at it, did recommend approval. Um, and then about halfway through that process, there was a request to fasttrack the uh Kaiser site for potential making it a viable site. So, the planning commission already approved those. Um and then we've waited on the 44 trees on the car dealership site because it was going to be tied to the design review permit before you today. So, we have three separate tree removal reports from Patrick from Denise Duffy Associates. I put those on the city

website. There is a link in the packet. Um, so in total there are 44 trees recommended for removal on this particular property. And just to help out the commission and the public. So there's there's 44 trees on the property. Three are dead. 17 are in poor health. Two will be retained. So there's actually 22 trees in good or fair condition that need to be replanted at a 2:1 ratio. And once again, the removal of the trees is consistent with the general plan with these policies identified on the on the slide. And now I'll go through the revised condition of approval. I did release the packet early so the public and the applicant could review the staff report. It's a pretty detailed staff report and I did prepare to help out the commission a memo that articulated some of the changes to the conditions. Um I've already gone over the first one about the curb green curbing. Uh we did get updated hours of operation from the applicant. Um, I omitted a paragraph in one of the city council resolutions, so I added that back. Talked about that already. Oh. Um, there was a request to submit the lighting plan as part of the building permit, not the grading permit, which is completely appropriate. And the applicant wanted to point out that the revised landscaping plan um does show that trees are not going over existing utilities. And then on Tuesday at around 5:30, I got a phone call from MST.

Um, and then they did submit a letter which I've given to the planning commission just reaffirming that there is a requirement for a bike uh connection all the way down to Devarte. Um, so that's been added as condition of approval 53 to the permit. And this is the this is the language and it's also in the memo that I've given the commission and there were questions. Thank you Commissioner Chang for your questions. So I will go through these one by one. So um can staff clarify uh whether allowing automotive sales at the site sets a precedent for similar uses elsewhere in the dunes at the city? The answer is no. The authority to reclassify is already in the development agreement and it's also actually already in the 2005 specific pay specific plan which allows for recreational sales uh recreational RV vehicles uh which are an allowed use for sale which they are selling. They're selling automotive vehicles as well as the the sprinter vans which are recreational vehicles. Uh the next question was what is the expected annual income returned to the city? Um so there is a $5 million incentive uh in which the applicant uh has a 50% rebate from the sales tax uh for up to $5 million. And this is the projected sales tax revenue over the first seven years. Uh the question was with 44 trees being removed what will be the short-term visual and environmental impact. Um so there will be trees removed within the boundaries of the uh project but as

you can see in the green all of these trees are calrans trees which are not going to be touched as part of this project.

That's good. Uh basically what's the impact to residential? Those are all of the conditions I've already gone over. I've tried to be very mindful of not negatively impacting the residents that will be built in phase three and how will the future signage kind of how will it align with the character of Marina and corporate branding. So I would say see condition of approval 27. We are we will be asking the applicant to submit a master sign program to make sure that the signage is appropriate and consistent with the character of Marina. Uh we have determined as per section 15183 of the SQL guidelines that this project has already been analyzed within the university village specific plan. And this is my very long recommended motion which we can go over at a later time. That concludes my initial presentation.

Okay. Thank you, Guido. Uh is the applicant here to make a presentation at this time? Yes. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioners. Thank you, Chair St. John and and the planning commission. Appreciate your service. I'm here tonight uh representing the Unstoppable Group and we'll be coordinating the presentation amongst the professionals. Um I guess I sort of have my Dunes hat on backwards tonight, but I'm here specifically for Mercedes because many of you may know that I also represent the the Shay homes of the Dunes on Monterey Bay at times. And this uh let me just start first by thanking uh you for bringing this to the commission. This is very important for the city of Marina for a variety of reasons. I want to thank Guido for his very comprehensive work on the staff report as well as the timeliness as well as uh recognizing the importance of this. So thank you Guido and your staff for that. Um I want to introduce uh we have a number of professionals here and I thought it was very important to have them both in person and in online. Users are online as well with the unstoppable group in terms of GLenthal and Ken Royoft. They are also online but uh you have uh Andy Hunter with Witson Engineering. You have Pat Kravucker with Denise Dussian Associates. You may know um Marina's tree expert. Thank you, Patrick. You also then have um online you have Abby Teers who is with Gensler, the project architect. Um and you also have Byron uh Williams with Vanderwal Associates, which is a landscape architect. Uh so we tried to and I don't believe I'm leaving anybody else out but we wanted to make sure that there was a comprehensive team here so that if you had any questions of any of the disciplines then you made sure you got the answers that you uh you deserve to to get. Let me just first start then by uh u talking a little bit about and this will go quickly. I just want to understand or or reemphasize as Guido had mentioned

this meets a number of the goals of the general plan but also the specific plan. Uh but particularly in in terms of this type of a development creating jobs and significant sales tax revenue uh for the city of Marina for replacement of what was lost particularly with the base re when the base closed. There may not have been direct sales tax, but there was economic activity when the base closed. And as you know, when the base was here and as you know, uh, those impacts were significant when it closed. And people sometimes forget because it's been a long time. I know for me it's been 21 years here working on this project specifically. And uh, and and so people forget sometimes that and you a lot of you probably remember if you've been in Marina, you know, that city of Marina lost half its job and a third of its population overnight. it was very significant uh also for seaside and others. So this helps re bring back that economic activity and obviously with the way fiscal um circumstances work uh in California for revenues sales tax is very important just like transit oriented t taxes toot taxes hotels is also very important. So let me uh first I want to kind of walk through a number of slides to give a little more depth and context as to what the what is being proposed here on a site plan and design review basis and a tree removal and uh replacement basis. So, first I' I'd like to add uh introduce Abby Teeters who's on the online who will walk through uh a slide deck the first uh to talk um about the building elevations and then a bit about the site plan so you get an idea of the the programmatic functions of the of what's happening on the site. So, Abby, if you can pull those up, please.

Guido, I don't know that I have permission to share. You do. Apparent you do. You do. You do. Okay, then someone explain how to do it for me then because I'm not seeing it as an option on my screen. I see transfer to room but not share. Um I mean there's just a share button at the bottom. There's not and what I'm looking at. Apologies to the room. you have um is she promoted to a presenter or panelist? I mean

where's Abby? Abby Abby. Yeah. Yeah. Let me There you go. Did that work, Abby?

All right. Now we're in business. Thank you. All right. Sounds okay. One moment. All right. Can we see the screen? Yes. Okay. Doug, do you want to walk through these or you wanted me to run with it? Yeah. Considering they're your drawings, Abby, I I feel much more comfortable with you walking through those and uh I I I don't want to press practice architecture designed by without a license. So, go if you would go ahead, please.

These were in Guido's presentation as well, but this is a Mercedes-Benz dealership, roughly 50,000 square feet. Um the elevation is mostly glass and metal panel with signage on different facades. Um, we can I'm actually skip back to this. So, the overall height is under 30 ft. It's right around 30 feet. So, it's got a it's got a presence on the highway, but it's not a massive presence. I'm going to flip through these. We have a showroom with a service shop attached and also with a detached sprinter service building as well on the site. So, this is our site plan that explains this a little more in detail. We have a showroom portion, the service drive where the customers will drop off their vehicles and a service shop with car wash and then detached service for the Sprinter vans. Um the site is secure with gates and there all will also be um fire lane access which is what you're seeing around here through a Noxbox system. We have the highway up here. And then what we were talking about also is the cow trans trees are here as well on the roadway there. Let's see. We have exhibits for the grading plans and other sight specific things. Andrew, I didn't know if you wanted to point out anything very specific on your plans. Andy Hunter Woodson that

Sorry, I'll I'll jump in real quick. Abby, uh Andy Hunter, Woodson Engineers. The grading and drainage plan. You'll see uh on your screen here. The blue cyan so say boxes at the top represent underground storm water chambers. Just like all sites in Marina, we're required to retain our storm water on the property. Uh so all all water will be collected, filtered and then uh allowed an opportunity to get back into the ground. Um if you flip to the next page, Abby, uh shows a few of the site utilities. Uh this has been planned along with the dunes development. So there are sewer uh dry utilities, gas and electric out in the road, water out in the main uh first avenue as well. So everything is teed up to be extended off to the building um in an efficient manner. Believe these are the turning radius files that show how the truck vehicles and larger vehicles can get in and out of the site easily. And we ran two different autoturn models to prove out that it'll work. And we also have landscape plans as they populate.

Yeah. Abby, do you want to have Byron talk a little bit about those landscape plans then and some of the emphasis Byron that might be in there with native plants and so forth? Sure. It's still seems like it's loading. You can hear me? Yes. Okay. Fantastic. Um I still don't see all of it. Um yeah it's coming up

okay lot lot of color um takes some time so uh yes we uh took the uh the mitigation that was required of us 44 trees to replace and um we provided that um and then some so we have believe on the bottom it shows 65 um we have perimeter trees interior trees the street frontage trees and so forth um early on Last year um we had a different preliminary plant legend for shrubs and infill and uh meeting with uh the vice chair of the tree committee, Mr. Simmons, um we had uh a phone conversation and so and out of that phone conversation, we've um redid our whole plant pallet to be more cal um coastal California species and natives. Um as you can see on the top left, that's the existing conditions from CALR. um give you a a sense of what it is. Um those are the trees that aren't being removed. Um we did this is the the revised plan. We had an earlier plan that uh we did have some conflicts with the uh the easements and some utilities and so um it's slightly different from for our street furniture trees, but we are clear and um meet those uh meet the setbacks required to not have any conflicts. Thank you, Byron.

You're welcome. I think is there anything else did you want to emphasize? No. Okay. U we can talk a moment about the uh tree removal and replacement plan. You obviously talked in the landscape plan about the 65 trees coming in, but I don't know Patrick if you want to take a moment just to talk a little bit about uh the the tree removal plan and then at the conclusion of that we'll be able to I think Abby will show the video as well. There's a a fly through video that shows it uh what what it looks like both from the elevations landscaping and so forth. So Patrick,

we have Patrick Craybacher with Denise Duffing Associates. Uh it's pretty sadly straightforward. Uh the grade has to go up and down so much through that whole area. So there's really no way that those trees could survive. And I know we talked about this last year, St. John, but uh it's uh basically all related to grading. And then um Guido hit it on the head as far as a windbreak and a visual barrier. I initially had the sticker shock with the the trees coming out in that row, but there is a significant amount of trees along that CALR corridor and that really comforted me a lot. So that's basically it. Um but I'm here for any questions as they come up. Thanks.

Another view. want to mention this wasn't part of this application but there was it was part of the previous one that that Guido had mentioned that the dunes got for the larger phase three was a relocation of a very large cypress tree that you know is now in this in the roundabout in 9inth street which also has some really cool Ford historical commemoration that will come out soon you'll hear about what those spires are and all of that so just a plug for that but um now Abby maybe you could show the video uh if you would please uh representation. This is something uh that that obviously really illustrates the trees on the highway one quarter that remain. Uh it's also was a request of the city council in their approval and incentive agreement for this project to um you know be able to really illustrate what it may look like. So go ahead Abby.

Here we go. So, you're moving north obviously up Highway One looking east. The dealership is behind all of that. Um, obviously

and the trees were Sorry, Doug. The trees were gohead evaluated through a light doll survey just or lighter survey, sorry, for everyone's education. And so, I'm not saying it correct. I apologize. And so we tried to get them as accurate as possible for this rendering. So it would show that it is very shaded and they are providing a lot of visual cover from the highway. And now these are the new trees planted on site that you see. And then the building the the north side of the building. Correct Abby? North side of the building coming up. This is the First Avenue.

Mhm. rolling through the service area and then coming up on the showroom itself. As you can see, it's a it's a very much of a jewel box for the showroom. So, it's a nice very nice building that'll enhance the area. Hopefully, some outdoor spaces for community involvement.

And that's it. Right. And Abby, those are the colors that are anticipated, correct? Yeah. the the pallet is um is what you saw there. Yes. Okay. Great. Thank you. So, uh thank you commissioners for the opportunity to present all of that. Um the on behalf of the unstoppable group um thank you again for your time and available for questions uh from any of the experts then involved in this uh important uh development in site plan design review and tree removal. So, thank you.

Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Um, now we move on to the Let's see. Do we have public comments now or That's at your discretion. Chair, you can either have the commission ask general questions or just open up for public comment and then bring it back. That's your call. Okay. Why don't we take round one of the commissioner's comments and questions this time?

All right, we will start. I see that uh Paul Chang, Commissioner Chang, you you want me to start us?

Yeah, you can. Um well thank you very much for your presentations. I think it's a very good news for Marina City to have Mercedes coming here. Um I think it elevate the whole image of Marina City as well. um knowing that you know Mercedes is a quality high-end vehicles and I think there's a market here too because I see a lot of new residents here are driving Tesla of hoping that it may change uh my question is I think earlier uh I I didn't have your name you present you said the water collected and then will be filter right so is there a water treatment system installed and and is there a lump system in cases the the water is you know is polluted and not allowed to be discharged. So is there a lump system installed in it? Uh so the the details of uh the exact parameters of how we will filter the water you know will be on our construction drawings. It'll be a combination of uh inside the parking lot what are called bio retention ponds where I think the VA hospital has some you might see locally where the water will go through some vegetation uh and organic soil that uh is able to remove pollutants before that water gets in the ground. And then the other uh ways are more mechanical where these uh these vaults and the ground will help uh filter the pollutants out before it goes into the the chamber system to get into the ground. So it's not meant for uh filtering water to uh reuse for portable drinking. It's it's meant to remove pollutants before um re-entering the ground.

Does the service center have a waste disposal plan? I know because in a service center you have a lot right right you know engine oil waste engine oil and all the maybe u rubber material need to be disposed I see a good point so what I was discussing had to do with the the exterior the rain water that hits the roof or hits the ground and how I'd collect and treat that inside the building any uh spills and oil will be contained and collected uh and and dealt with internally and not let out into the environment. Okay. The second concern I have is the traffic. Mhm.

Uh maybe someone can address it because the location here you having the first avenue and u and first avenue is um linking to a seaside city. Mhm. And um and and the hospital is coming up as well. So that traffic will be very heavy over there on the first avenue. And this morning when I was driving through and going to Second Avenue, I also realized Second Avenue traffic is heavy. It's hard for me to get out because there's no traffic like that, you know, not not on on on that that location where you are, right?

So, how you going to handle all this traffic problem? Well, the traffic is was analyzed very carefully in in the environmental impact report for the university village specific plan. Um the volumes, in fact, I heard from one of the city's traffic engineers this morning on on another related thing that the volumes that they were anticipating from that EIR for the development specifically coming to the South Dunes is significantly less than what was contemplated. and that EIR has, you know, uh requirements of improvements u throughout the whole area um but not necessarily to signalization there because of the traffic volumes. You're right. There will be a variety of traffic coming down First Avenue, Devari, Second Avenue, and there are future improvements coming to all of that. But, uh, it is designed the street improvements that went in on First Avenue and and Annie could talk about the cross-section of what that looks like, but those were all recently approved by the the city in concert with their traffic engineers uh for for the capacity of all the uses anticipated. Um, and as recently it's been it's been now installed into the ground for the most part where the curb lines are. There's some striping improvements and a few things, but for the most part the street section has been put in place. Um, that does anticipate the flow of traffic from all the uses up and down First Avenue

uh or Second Avenue coming down over to Dvari. Um, it is important, I think, for the city of Marina to retain two-way traffic on 1 Avenue south in the city of Seaside. Even though the marina doesn't control it, I think it would be important for the city of Marina to express to Seaside. Please keep that former Army Road now now with First Avenue in the city of Seaside in their main gate program. That's a project that's coming forward. Keep that two-way traffic down to light fighter. So that's something that city doesn't control of Marina, but I think it would be makes sense in my opinion that you'd want to express that just for the purposes that you describe that you want as much flow out of there as possible and folks coming up from light fighter potentially. Um they're also the delivery of vehicles uh are on site um on the site accommodated on site but they would anticipate to come up from light fighter either up the first avenue or up second avenue and over down to not go up any farther north make their delivery and then back down to light fighter onto the freeway. So, the benefit of this project versus being in the heart of Marina with a car dealer or uh in the middle of the dunes is that it's on the edge of the city and the traffic impacts really are, lack of a better term, exported um that way. Uh and and it really, you know, Marina gets the benefit of the sales tax, jobs, and all of that, but

mitigation to some degree obviously of the traffic and not like we're in the middle of the city. So that that's one advantage of having it in the southwest corner. I hope I answered your question. Yeah, you did. Thank you very much. And also want to thank um director Greo for answering most of my questions there. Really appreciate that. Um I just want to make sure that the um the question number one you say the I I understand you say no. And uh what I want to know is in when future proposal would that still require review and are not automatically permitted?

So just for the benefit of the audience your first question let me just pull it up off the screen. Um uh yeah. So there's there's no precedent set because um whenever this type of interpretation goes through my office or through the city manager uh you know we have to look at what was done in the past. Uh what was the context for the approval? In this case, the specific plan already allows recreational vehicle sales and the car car dealership is selling automobiles as well as the sprinter vans which is a recreational vehicle. So it's a very easy interpretation to make. So

all right and when it come to the signage I earlier you mentioned that if any deviations from the master sign programs um I just want to confirm it will come back to planning commissions to review. Yes. Um, if you go to your packet, uh, condition of approval number 27, it's written that prior to occupancy of the building, the applicant will submit a master sign program for review and approval by the planning commission. Right. Thank you very much. That's all I had. Thank you, Chair.

Um, thank you. Uh, just one other clarification. the signage. I recall seeing in the in the package for our review some signage already proposed for the dealership. Do you see it? I'm sorry. I'm getting older. I have to switch glasses. So, I have to switch glasses when I'm standing. Maybe I'm dreaming. Very cool.

So for for the for the commission, so in your packet in the staff report is the prototype of the monument sign that the applicant as part of the incentive package with the city council is agreeing to build and maintain in perpetuity. Um so that that will be built. Um there'll probably be some discussion at the council about that. what will be coming back to the cal the planning commission will be a master sign program for the overall signage within the actual project but but not that monument sign. Yeah. So, okay.

Okay. Uh Vice Chair Woodson, you have some questions on notes.

Uh yeah. Um I think mine are more um not questions, they're more statements at this point. um because I don't have questions I withdraw all my questions. Um the first one is that coming back to coordination pieces most of the things if we're supporting Mercedes then we need to support them 100%. On this and that means that there are secondary issues that are around the Mercedes dealership and I'm going to start with the trees with CALR. As great as that the LAR survey is, those trees are in average condition. They have a lot of dead spots. Calrans ignores them. And if we want to do something, then I would recommend that the staff look at how we can partner with with CALR to maintain that facade because those trees look ugly and that is not if we're putting in a multi-million dollar facility that is going to draw regional because the Mercedes deal is a regional maintenance shop, then we should be looking at that and supporting them at all all avenues. and those trees are not the image that we want to have along 80% of their frontage. The second part builds on that and that's the monument sign. Um it's an incentive program. We've built this great monument that Mercedes has offered up which is amazing in how it looks. It's at the edge of 1 Avenue which is a minor entry point into our city. We have multiple gateways and so from a staffing perspective, I think that it would be good if we had a proposal that looks at our gateways and creates at least some level of consistency that builds off of what Mercedes is offering. We don't have to have the same level of gorgeous gateway monument that's shown from the highway, but at our other gateway points into the city, we should have more than just falling down plywood that represents the same thing. And we really at the time that Mercedes is finishing this, that would be a great win marketing wise to the city to have those

built at the same time that Mercedes opens up and shows the monument. The third part is um First Avenue. I've said it before and I will and I will continue to say this. The city of Marina and the city of Seaside have to work together on this corridor. If we do not do this as Manggate comes up over the next few years and gets developed, we run the risk of really sabotaging a lot of the efforts that we are making with Marina. And having talked to the seaside planning planner, senior planner, I am not confident that he has the best interests of Marina in mind. Now, he's not that's not his job. His job is to pro promote seaside, but we have to make sure that the best interests of marina and our businesses are appropriate recommended whether that's Mercedes or Kaiser or any or MST, we've got to be able to short it because those are important aspects of what we do. Um, those are the three main things I have. The last one is on the condition on condition 27 on the signage. Just kind of curious at why that's stopping at the commission. Since the the city council has usurped the power of the planning commission on design review and that they want they have taken charge of the planning process and it no longer stops with us and becomes an appeal authority to the city council because the the line review and tree removal should have stopped here since it's not and they've taken that as an incentive and they they have that right I guess because even though it's a quasi judicial not legislative then why are they going to get why are face stopping at the city thing. I want consistency and I would like to know down the road from my planning commission when are we going to have control over the process and when are we not going to have control over the process and negotiating with the city. Those are my comments. Okay. Thank you, Comm Vice Chair

Woodson. Uh next we have uh Commissioner Jacobson. Yeah. Thank you, chair.

So, I I think the the plans for the dealership and um where it is and what it's going to bring to Marina is actually tremendous. I'm so glad that it's coming here and and in that end of the town, which may bring people to this end of the town. Who knows if that corridor is open. Um, the other thing is is that uh I was prepared to come in here and um I guess um ask a lot more questions about the removal of the trees.

I can I was thinking that the real reason for the removal of the trees was it so the dealership could be seen by Highway One. And now that I'm reviewing and seeing the cow cans trees, that's not the case at all. And I also thought it was kind of a construction thing, but it's not. It's it's because of the of the uh engineering

engineering and where the water's going to flow and all that sort of thing. So I want you all of that for me has been has been relieved and the addition of the 67 trees on the site where they are the kind of trees you're putting there. I'm in favor of all that. So you know thank you for your efforts on on that part even though I was ready to say oh thank you. Back to you. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Jacobson. Okay. Uh, yes, Commissioner Barl.

Thank you. You're up.

Thank you very much. Uh, thank you for the presentation. Uh yes, we looks like people are excited about uh this project and I have to confess that I felt very much like you about the trees being removed from the uh highway to have um people's drivers see it. Um however, I do hope that we can do a separate motion for the trees since it's a very serious issue for us to to talk about. Um so if uh my uh colleagues don't mind we can have a second motion for the trees a separate motion for the trees and one for the design. So we can at least um um it it looks like that we are taking it very seriously recommending to remove 44 trees. 22 of them are in fair condition I guess okay condition. Uh they didn't look that awful to me uh when I went to look at it yesterday. Um, so one one of the things I I was hoping to see, but I don't know if it's possible, is to kind of superimpose the project on this map with the sand and the trees, so I can see where the where the border um of of the parking of of the entire field come to the trees. So, I can see where the trees are, how the trees are um bordering this area

because I can't really tell how far the the the the buildings, the the pavement ends and the trees stop. So I can really make a very educated uh decision about exactly how many of them must be removed because maybe some of them can be saved and um trimmed a little bit and to make them a little bit nicer than they look and I agree that not every tree looks very nice but uh I I would like to know if that's any is possible because the arborist did not make a recommendation really it looks to me from what I read that arborish did not make a recommendation. He did not have an opinion on removing the trees but I do see in two places that it states uh it's necessary um to accommodate the completion of the project and it will impede the grading. So I would like to see how some of the trees that are very close to the fence maybe they some of them could be same.

Thank you. that very issue was looked at. Um I believe we may have a graphic that could be pulled up. Um I I don't know Abby if you've got uh but we can be spoken to by um the engineer Witson and and of course um by our uh arborist uh that is advising. But that those what you had uh Commissioner Baron had had looked at it. That's an exercise that the project went through and the and the professionals went through to look specifically. Okay. How many of these trees could really be saved given all of the constraints that happen when you're developing a property particularly grading uh infrastructure um you know uh even you know there were there were several trees that are or two trees that are saved on there in addition to the new ones coming but you have to think about how how that works. You can see with the site plan uh in an overlay um you could see that you know the the building proximity having to make sure you maintain those elevations and others. Uh and and then the arborists can talk as well about how uh trees do, you know, don't do well if you try to provide a lot of engineering solutions around them and maintain the graves and have these big tree wells or these big retaining walls or other things around and that tree roots suffer. Um and then there's not a good success rate with a lot of that and still be able to maintain this the the constraints or uh relative to all of the site needs on there. And I believe Abby, what are you are you're pulling up the revised landscape plan here? And I'll turn it over now to to Andy with Witson Engineer

that that I'm I pulled it up. You mind going to this? Uh I Are you talking about the final page? I think I have it. I can pull it up if that's what you're looking at. Uh the grading and drainage plan. Do you have that on the end, Abby? I do. One moment. Let me get it open. Yeah, Abby. if uh the grading and drainage plan will show our contours and then we'll start there and then I have some sections at the end of our presentation we we had just in case uh Commissioner Baron this question came up. Um so this gets loaded here grading and drainage.

So if you're able to zoom in on the the highway edge there as close as you can. Uh so the the site grading has a 2% slope from First Avenue sloping towards the ocean. sloping towards the highway. 2%'s the same grade you'd have on the as a cross slope of a road. So, you can't really see it, but um you know, 2 feet for every hundred. Uh as this grade falls down towards the highway, we're trying to find a balance of keeping the site, you know, flat so you can drive on it, but also, you know, take up grade in the direction that the general terrain is going. uh the parking lot itself, you know, having enough parking for the site was obviously an important characteristic and and that had to fit on on the property and then we had to, you know, take up the remaining space with this contour difference. So there's about six feet of fill that uh needs to be made up between the edge of the property at the highway and the parking lot. Um, so all those black lines that you see parallel to the parking lot, each one of those is represents one foot of elevation change. It's kind of hard to see here, but there's some really faint X's that represent that overlay, Commissioner Baron, that you were asking about that where the trees exist today and how they are either in the parking lot or in the slope. Um, in a moment we can flip to the the end of the packet with a section, but it uh, as Doug Y was explaining here that um, and Patrick can attest to, there are always ways, you know, we first look at how can we manipulate the grade to get things uh, naturally to fit around existing uh, you know, in this case trees. U, we do everything we can to push the site down in this case, but if we pushed it any lower, it would be too steep. um or you know be even further below First Avenue and not be able to get our pipes to to drain back you know appropriately. Um

and then secondly we look to what's a structural option that we can do to try and put a box around the tree and and save it. We we studied a few of those when we did some field walks on this. Yeah, I guess it was a year and a half ago. Um, and uh we'll we'll jump to this this exhibit in a moment here, but the the structural uh frame around the tree, you know, Patrick had an opinion about the likelihood of that tree being saved. I I always think back to the Delmmani shopping center, the movie theater got built now decades ago. There's those big empty tree wells where trees were saved and now they're just empty because they tried to wall around them and the tree didn't live. Um so u and maybe before I jump to the the next the end here is this the overlay starting to answer your question I guess before I go you're a little bit uh clearer. Um okay

and I I I'm of course um I I support this project. I just want to uh be serious about removal of trees because since I have been on the planning commission I I had to vote for removal of more than 100 trees and I feel my karma is going to start changing for me. So it is a topic we take very seriously and I I understand. Um yeah. So my my other question my last question um so the um the trees that are going to be planted the 20 44 trees 65 65 that going to be planted in excess of the 40

where are they going to be planted and when are they going to be planted and are we going to see I pulled up that plan it should be loading for you guys. So so they're scattered around the property around the perimeter within the parking lot. So they they would be frankly not planted on day one. You know they're they're planted after the hardcape is is put down and the the you know pockets are are left for them. So first the site would be graded then the hardscape you know the concrete the asphalt would be placed and then after that you know the landscape would be put down. So we will see new trees being planted in my lifetime before the project is open. Yes.

Okay. Thank you very much. One question. Yeah. And I would point the commission to condition of approval 13 which uh we will be asking for a bonding for the landscaping and that it has to you know hopefully it lasts longer but at a minimum of at least two years. Um so because we the concept is you don't want somebody to just throw something down and then it dies two months later. Um so that that's a way that the commission can have assurance that the landscaping will hopefully take root and thrive within those first couple years. So

Mr. Chair, if if possible, I just want to respond to one more thing. Um, uh, you can see that there obviously with the, you know, the 65 additional trees and when you talk about tree removal, it's really important to remember it's that many of the trees in this case, uh, let's say of the 44, 22 are not in good shape and are dying or very poor or poor. So it's really 22 of the more healthy trees that are removed. So, I don't know if it if this is more calming to you, but 22 to 65, maybe you get three times the karma going that way. I'm still Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Gala. Let me jump in. I have uh a couple of comments and then we've got another somewhat additional bites of the apple down the way. Just a couple of comments. First, on page three of our packet under landscaping, the the tree committee a year and a half ago or so had asked for a uh a second in-depth look at trees 712 and 752, which were some of the more elegant trees. and and you you did do a a in-depth feasibility study of any way to save those two and and came up with it was uh not feasible due to the high cost of retaining walls in addition to the pro the probability or lack of probability of it being successful. And so we have to lose those. And I agree. I I think I I appreciate the the effort that y'all have gone into to save those two and uh and accept that your initial thoughts were bore bore out that they have to go. Okay. Then the last thing that I have is on page 10 or so I might you talked about retaining trees 732 and 730

two two trees that might be possible. the the study on 732 said it's possible to keep it, but will you have to see and can you give a little more on 732 the Well, my understanding and Andy or Patrick correct me if I'm wrong is that we the the plan does say tree 732 that is anticipated to be saved. Okay. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. Entry will be retained.

Okay. Now 7:30, I'm a little confused on 7:30 because on figure three of your reports, it shows 7:30 up in the upper leftand corner, right? And colorcoded core, which means you might can save it, but it might not. No, no. Um the main issue with all these trees and I think Woodson brought it up really great was the neglect in this whole zone uh

for maintenance and he was specifically he was speaking to the Calrans trees. These all these trees could benefit from some sort of maintenance but um that one I just found in poor condition during the survey. I'm still going to say we preserve it. uh I had to add it to this report because its root zone fell within the project limits. So um we will be impacting some form of its drip line uh root zone. But uh no, I would still advocate to save it. Well, I I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I'm not saying it's going to decline and die. I'm saying in that moment in time I determined it was in a poor condition because of if off the top of my head I can think about most of these trees had large hanging limbs um dead overabundance of deadwood. There were some boring beetles in some spots. uh a lot of fungus. Um but is there a plan to clean it up a little bit or that one? That falls within the next phase. So that's not something I can answer, but um I I don't know. That's for the future, I guess. Yeah, because there were very few that were being retained. Yeah.

And it does seem that you're going to retain some poor ones that might need a little tenderloving care. That might be an opportune time to give it to them. Yeah, I think a tree of that size in poor condition, it's probably got a long life left because the a lot of these trees are Yeah, they're pretty large. But, um, it being in poor condition, I don't I don't have any doubts, but I can't speak to maintenance for it or anything like that. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. That's that's all I have. And let me see. We've got another couple of Right. You haven't had a chance yet. Okay, Commissioner Rana, your floor. Okay, we have uh some conditions of approval. This is for the staff. Uh we have condition of approval 21 and uh number 30. Um the applicant is supposed to provide a parking plan and also the traffic control plan. So what's the timeline for these plans to come up because they are conditions of approval?

Uh which condition of approval? I'm sorry I didn't hear the first part. It's page three. Page three. Uh show the parking plan. Uh the draft it says prior to issuance of building permit the applicant shall provide a parking plan that denotes customer and employee parking. So and the traffic control plan was condition of approval. Trying to find it. Um, drawing settle

where did I put it? Uh, condition of approval 30. Um, when they apply for their encroachment permits with public works, that's when we'll have a traffic control plan. I'll be especially focused on that one because we have a county building about one parcel over and there was quite a bit of communication from that u county office about some when devarte got closed for construction. So I'll definitely be looking and reviewing the traffic control plan with Edri and public works for that for this particular project. So

okay and uh one very basic question who is responsible for maintaining the new trees which are going to come up the builder or who's responsible for the new trees? The new trees will be on the site. Yes. And that would be the responsibility of the dealership to maintain the owners of the dealership and and part of their maintenance fund. But uh the trees are being planted by the builder and the dealership is going to maintain that. So the agreement the cities agreement is with the dealership or with the builder.

Um so MercedesBenz will hire a contractor and then that contractor will have to follow these conditions of approval. But ultimately the applicant is MercedesBenz and they'll be responsible for all the trees, all the landscaping and then uh like I mentioned earlier, we have a bond we're going to be asking for for the landscaping to make sure that the gives the landscaping a couple years to thrive. And so yeah, thank you.

Commissioner, Commissioner Jacobson, you have some additional I I only have one thing for the arborist. We talked about the slope and how the drainage would probably not allow those trees to live anyway. They'd get water logged. How far is that water going? Is it also going to kill the trees on the cowran side?

I think you got a Andy question, but all the water's being contained on site, right Andy? Is that right? Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. So, yeah. Well, then why was water called out as one of the reasons that these you said these trees wouldn't live anyway because of the water coming down? The trees won't survive because of grading because of the dirt. So grading they're going to they got to cut down to then fill. So that's eliminating all of their root zones. And then if you look at the site plans, it goes directly through every single treere's trunk. So yeah.

So it had nothing to do with water flow. Okay, that's all. Thank you. Yeah, we will open open the the discussion and questions to the public. So, we'll start with the public here in in attendance. You come up and turn it on. name. Hey, how you doing?

Mike Mohler, Marina resident. I didn't actually expect to come here and see this uh in person. Was going to do the facilities tour again, but this is actually more interesting. I uh we limit the discussion from each of each person to three minutes.

Correct. Correct. Yeah. Thank you. Um I don't have any complaints actually. Uh, surprisingly, I'm uh I'm really excited for this dealership and the uh the revenue that it'll it'll produce for Marina. I hope it's uh successful and I hope it uh other successful development in that area um brings lots of good lots of good luck and maybe avoids a uh any further taxes to uh build any facilities. I don't know. I'm sure all of you saw Mercedes of Tmacula. It it almost looks like the dealership down there is almost a copy and paste of a a high hilltop with the you know the entrance sign and it's um it's actually pretty brutal. I I trust the developer to to do a pretty good job. Um I don't know if that sign is the permanent one. I I missed the discussion on the sign. I was kind of hoping for something a little more along the lines of that stone that goes along. You know, I think that was Ford Orstone. I kind of like that style, but um other than that, I think that's pretty much it. Um I hope this gets done fast. I hope uh the city council doesn't try to make a bunch of changes or get nitpicky about things. And um let's do it. Let's get some Mercedes in here.

Thank you very much. Uh, thank you. Is there anyone else in attendance that wants a shot? Okay, let's go to the telephone. Yep. Um, or I'm sorry to be Hello, iPhones. Hello, Alex. We can hear you, Alex.

Okay. Hey. Hello. My name is Alex Stewart. Um, I'm 73 years old and my family moved here in 1961 and I'm actually pretty ignorant about the project. I don't know what stage you're really at and my comments might be inappropriate, but I just want to remind everybody that, you know, Marina has always been the lowest socioeconomic community on the peninsula for my whole life. And um and I've been fine with that. We used to always call it the armpit of the peninsula. And I was kind of proud of that moniker. So it seems that the um that the Mercedes dealership seems kind of inappropriate. You know, the stuff they build out, this new shopping center with Kohl's and Target and everything that serves the populace of Marina, but nobody I know can buy a Mercedes. So, I know you guys are looking forward to the tax money, but I don't know. It's It's I'm glad it's in the southwest corner. It's nice that it's out of the way that you guys plan for it to um uh you attract regional people. I don't care for that part too much, but the number one thing about Marina has always been its diversity. when I was going to school here and when my son came up through school, you know, I'm white guy and my son is a white guy and there are many times in his class where he was the only white kid, you know, and that was good. That was a good way for us to grow up because we learned about different cultures and about how everybody is the same and equal, but our cultures are different and that's cool. We learned a lot from our our different culture friends and the diversity of Marina is changing. you know, you have this high-end Mercedes thing going, the new houses that are going in. maybe those people can afford Mercedes and and it

seems to me like most of the people that are buying out there are white so that the demographics of the city are changing also but um I don't know how appropriate any of this is but it doesn't seem like a Mercedes dealership benefits the traditional diversity of Marina which is slowly getting lost because of things like this. Thank you. Uh, thank you for your your wisdom and comments. Uh I'm not sure how to resolve it if if it is something that needs to be resolved, but the we we probably should think about whether it's fair to uh say that the Mercedes dealership is more of a premium uh entry into Marina where we're not used to premium entries like that. But I I think we have to remember that this is 2026 and not 19 66. So anyway, I think we're way past the point of and legally contractually obligated to this uh this particular enterprise going forward. Now, tonight we are chartered to make a decision on the

tree removal permit and what was the other the So, there's two permits before the commission today. There is a design review permit for the building and then a tree removal permit. and under the municipal code or the reason why the commission didn't look at the tree permit when this came a year or so ago is because the MUN code mandates that the commission look at both at the same time which makes sense kind of a comprehensive analysis. So,

okay. So, anyway, it has been uh probably about a year and a half since the initial review of the train permit uh was uh started. And I I remember walking the site at at that time uh and we hugged every tree.

Absolutely. And uh we we had at that time we didn't have a drawing of the site grading plan, but we did have an expert that gave us so we could kick the sand and know that they had to go down go up six feet here and down several feet over there where they had little bumps. So, we we pretty much I think there were about 10 or 12 people on the uh on the site survey.

That's true. Yeah, that's correct. And and yeah, we, as I say, we we hugged every tree there and did our best to pick out the the best trees there. And we I think it was just a couple of them that we said, "Take a another look and see if you can salvage those two." and we're um I'm I'm convinced that they that that was a a wish that uh we didn't get, but a couple of more they were able to save. So, I think they've done their best and the tree committee, me as a representative, would agree that that uh they did their job. So, if there let's see, we have some more discussion. One last

give one assist. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead.

Thank you chair. Well, I just want to respond to the um earlier Alex um commence the I believe Mercedes have already uh done their physibility study and they know they are not serving Marina City alone. They're looking at the whole county. Um because I came from Verville. the Mercedes in Furfield but in fact a lot of buyers are from Bay Area so it's is very different and also there's a group of new residents that coming in from Bay Area living in the dunes uh they they prefer to have a high-end car u so I I think I have not seen uh Merced dealers have uh anyone have closed and collapsed and um so I'm pretty confident is the right decisions. I I really appreciate Marina pick um Mercedi picked Marina. I think thank you very much. The the other question I had is um I know we talk about the trees and and I like the AI image of the new trees are coming um but again tree don't grow overnight, right? So during this transition period, I just wondering is there a strategy to reduce the visual gap or you're just waiting to just plant the new tree and just leave it and waiting for 3 years, five years to grow up? Um I'm I'm I guess I'm not quite sure I understand your question and I might have uh the landscape architect Byron Williams with Bander Tulin to answer this in terms of the time frame of the growth of the trees and what the size of the trees that are planted is that

Byron can you answer that question the landscape plan please the the reason I'm saying because when you remove the tree it'll be very bad everything will be open up there's no blockage of visual everything will be exposed. Correct. When the new trees are planted, if they're small or are you talking about removal of the old ones? Remove the old one and planted the new tree. The new tree is small. Correct. And then there's no the visual is is pretty clear. There's no gap. I mean, everybody could see it. Right. Well, except that all the trees on the highway will remain in Calr rideway. Those aren't touched. So all of those are, you know, they may need to be in the future have some, but all those along the highway will remain.

That's not in the project. Those are remaining. And as you saw in the video, those are the actual trees that are there. And no, the remove one. This all remove, right? It's all back. No, that's what I'm saying. But he's saying there's there are the trees along the freeway. Those remain. Yeah. Remain. Okay. That's And you saw in the video when you're driving up Highway One, you you look back at the dealership and um there's trees. I mean it's a really good visual

u view um of and corridor for all those trees and and yes some of them do have issues as as commissioner Woodson mentioned and others but those remain okay and it's just the ones that are inside those just inside the city the the site plan uh that are being removed so um and then of course one very big one remember I mentioned went to the roundabout at 9inth street in the Dunes project and it's 30 feet or some it's huge. And when they moved it, it was like moving the pyramids with the little roller things on the bottom on the platform and it was it was interesting. Thank you. Okay, it's good to know. Thank you for clarification. Thank you.

Okay, Commissioner Gayla. Thank you, J. Um question about the the sign, the welcome to Marina sign. uh just for orientation uh you you see it if you come from light fighter and you turn north that's how I

yeah the best way to to think about that if I may mr chairman is the that sign a couple of things one you'll see it most predominantly as right when you go past light fighter and that road turn the highway one turns a little you're going to see that welcome to marina sign and it is a suggestion here because The city hasn't completed, if I'm correct, hasn't completed their design of the gateway signs. This is could be one of many gateway signs, but the city hasn't completed. So, this is just a representation of what may make sense of where it would go. But if you back up, and you may have noticed it on the video, but if you it it you're going to see that most predominantly when you're driving up Highway One in the right hand lane and you look up after you cross Light Fighter um and you're looking up onto the highway and it just starts to turn, it's going to be right there. And um I mean it's a great location for a welcome to Marina sign. I mean, it's going to be really prominent. And at one time, there was a gateway sign program in the city a number of years ago, and I know that's being looked at by the city's landscape architect who does great work. Um, and she's looking at all of that, and she's going to be giving recommendations to Duido and to the I'm imagine planning commission, the council about what that gateway signage should be. And then specifically in this location that's proposed, you know, how is that going to work? Is it going to have the logo? What's the wording gonna be? This is just a depiction of what could be. But the important part about this is this is roughly where the sign would be uh in relation to the dealership behind it. And that was a requirement of the city council to say, please illustrate how that might work. And then I would imagine the council will be become engaged in, you know, the future gateway signs of all of that. So, I'm driving north on Highway One and

I'm looking to the right and I and I can see that from you go across the bridge and I light Fighter. Okay. And you're looking into the trees basically on the right side looking basically the gateway or the main gate project of Seaside. you turn this corner of this project is what you see when you turn uh over the bridge, you know, because the first avenue underneath the to the new Ford State Park is right in front of the sign, right? That first avenue goes down and then you go over that underpass. Um, okay.

And if you just if you get a chance and you make the drive, next time you're driving that, just take a look and you'll see you'll see the graded site when you come up. you'll go, "Okay, now I understand where where that is." Um, yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Commissioner Raina.

Yeah, a quick question for the applicant that uh the facility has uh a car wash and also uh maintenance uh plates. So it will generate some chemical waste. So what do you plan to do with that? And will it also have an impact for the neighboring communities and uh particularly the medical facility which is coming up next door? Yeah, the I'll let the architect address how you know all of the chemicals and all the things that are used in cleaning of cars or or maintenance of vehicles that are all interior all inside uh their various uh programs. Um and you know the one thing that uh was looked at in this site very carefully of course uh was its proximity to residential because particularly with Sha homes right there. I mean, those homes are going to be just to the north and northeast and just up a little ways and uh north of Third Street. And so, it's uh there's a lot of sensitivity to these dealership. And I think the Mercedes uh dealers, the the owners as well as the Unstoppable Group as well as the architect have done a good job, very good job of making sure that the programs, the use, the layout of the site plan is very compatible with a residential neighbor close and they have other dealerships that the residents are very close to and so they're sensitive to that and I think it's the site plan reflects that. But Abby, I don't know if you could uh address then just uh um what's typically done in a dealership then relative to chemicals on site for either maintenance or cleaning.

And and before Abby does, I I would want to point to the commission, the condition of approval number 19, uh prior to issuance of building permits, uh clearance from the county environmental health department must be obtained. Right. So any oil, chemicals, whatnot, all that stuff has to get cleared through county health. Shoot the building permit until we have that clearance from county health department. So right,

and to piggyback on that, Guido, um, a typical building permit application will include the extensive list of all chemicals to be used in the service shop. They are not they some are tagged as hazardous. They mostly are not. It's usually oils and and you know exfoliants and things like that. But um I'm not using the right word for that. Apologies. But anyway, any chemicals that are in the shop like let's say oil, if you're getting your oil change, as an example, that oil gets put into a containment system within the shop that then is removed from the building. It is never put into the local system ever. It goes to mitigate that. There's also things like sandulsa interceptors and things like that so that nothing will go into groundwater or water supply or anything like that. So there are a lot of factors to make sure that never happens. And the chemicals that are used in these shops are not extremely hazardous. They have gotten a they're actually much more eco-friendly over the years if you want to say it that way. It is still oil. But the way to mitigate it is a very controlled, methodical way to do it inside the building. I hope that answers or helps.

Yes. Thank you. This is not their first rodeo. Okay. Commissioner Vice Chair Woodson. Thanks. I done review permit. Guido, can I get some clarification on what it is that we're supposed to be reviewing with the design review? What are the boundaries? Because I mean that's if we're going to get into environmental stewardship of hazardous materials and hazardous waste that is being stored, I don't think that's design review. I mean that's those those are required state of California for every business. And if and the only reason I ask is that we're we're expanding a discussion point here that we are we don't extend to our other businesses

that come into the city. And so I mean I appreciate the questions but I think there's also a a full set of California regulations in fact the most stringent in the country when it comes to managing hazardous materials and hazardous waste. And I mean they're they're not going to be going out back of the shop and disposing of a drum of oil. I mean, that's and they're going to meet all the current they're going to meet all current state and federal requirements. They're going to they're going to. So, um I just so I'd kind of like some clarification of what our boundaries are and what is considered part of the design review and and what isn't so that we don't stray.

Um I thought the question was appropriate. Um, as a planner, we have to prepare conditions of approval that have some nexus to the project and some potential negative impact. Um, so for a restaurant, for a ABC license, for a car dealership, it's completely appropriate for the city to put a condition that says prior to opening up a restaurant, you know, verify you have your health permit uh prior to the dealership. So it's an appropriate condition and it's a it's a reasonable question to ask. Now, now if the commission starts to get into, you know, the size of the drum to maintain the oil, obviously that's something completely out of the purview of staff and the commission, right? So there there is some

that I want to make sure that we there are some borders to what the commission and I can discuss, but the condition is reasonable in terms of hey, before we give you a building permit, make sure that you have your health clear health environmental health clearance. I didn't say the condition wasn't. Yeah, I did say the condition approval one which I guess then opens up the conversation but I think at the same time it's a consistency across all of our applicants. We have another applicant that's coming today and only because it's just coincidental that are we going to turn around and ask them what their oil water separators requirements are that they have to have. Well, actually he's building a gas station. So we would want to make sure that the

So I mean that's what my so my point is that it we if we're going to do we just need to make sure we're consistent across everything across the board and not just single out because oh they're they're bigger than another or a different size and the only reason I think of gas station is because I spent years doing small doing sampling of oil water separators to ensure compliance. So yeah. So so to answer your question, if we're being a community good community development department, we will not sign off on the gas station until the applicant shows us that the underground tank has been properly

get into that. That's a different topic. That's a white Mercedes. Um, oh, but I think mine is just in general with with developments that come and developers that come in, especially if they're on the commercial side and if they have these they have hazardous materials or hazardous waste, then we want to make sure that that we're that those conditions are consistently applied across every permit application and every discussion that they're highlighted and brought up. That's all. That's a fair point.

Okay. Thank you. I think tonight it's important for the commissioners to be uh comfortable with the conditions of approval as far as the design review permit. Are the conditions of approval necessary and sufficient? both of those criteria and and I think Guido is has presented along with staff a very comprehensive set of conditions and if we can think of an oversight then now is the time to bring that up.

Okay, let me see. I think we have one more question from Commissioner Simmons.

Uh just a quick question on trees number 712 and 752. I know we talked about the can't be saved because of the um I guess the uh slope of the land and everything, but what I was wondering is, you know, we talked about the another project that tree that was saved and moved uh from the dunes. Is it possible to save 712 and 752 and move them and reutilize them possibly on that same site or somewhere else? Well, I'll defer to the our arborist that it sometimes that's a matter of expense as well and there are project limitations on expense. This is a a very uh expensive project to build as you can imagine with the architecture and everything else. Uh I forget the exact number. Um but it was a great expense to move that big tree that was the largest tree on the on the on the site uh to the roundabout. Uh and and because of its characteristics and its health, it it was a it was noted as a very eligible tree. But that's and that was done by Shea Holmes. And that's very expensive. I want to say um

80 thou over a 100,000 to move that big tree up there and more of a heritage type tree, right? And so these are the smaller and almost get our arm around these, but that other one was large. It was grandfather. So the condition if you will or the standard that's in the specific plan particularly is one of trying to save as many trees as you can and those that take another look at more specifically if if it's really feasible and one of the feasibility measures is is also you know economic. So thank you. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. Okay. I I want to address just one other comment and then uh open it up for uh commissioners votes voting. Um the last comment was I think it was from from uh Commissioner uh Baron to separate the the uh the recommendations into two motions instead of one. And let me ask

that's that's completely appropriate. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's fine. It if uh if it's not a a difficult task and we can do it, you know, in step of pressing on the meeting, that's completely appropriate. Okay. Make it two resolutions. Yeah. Um so 2026. Yeah. I mean, I can just Yeah, that's totally fine. Okay. So I will entertain the two motions at this time, but we can do them one by one. I' I'd love to do this. Okay. If I can just interject. I have no idea why, but we have a

Yeah. Hi. Um I agree with Guido. I think that's fine. I I I was sensing maybe from Guido's pause. I just want to make sure that you know normally we would do like um the obligatory like um sequa finding you know once if this were one resolution but if we're splitting it into two resolutions and or two motions we'd want to craft them I don't know Guido if you're going to kind of do that on the fly right now so that we have the secret finding in both of them. Um is there yeah this is an important enough project where I would want to have exactly what the commission is doing. So um if it gets too complicated if it's okay with the chair we would take just like a fivem minute pause.

Why don't we take a break for for a few minutes to separate this out and I am open to explain why I won't

Yeah. Um well there are people that are very serious about um removing trees especially uh trees in good conditions and I don't want it to look that like we were burying this um topic in another big motion about the design the review of the design. This way we just uh provide a little bit more transparency. Nothing is buried, nothing is hidden, and uh if anybody has any um concerns, we can respond to it. Thank you. Okay, Guido.

Um so the chair, I can if you want to take a two or three minute pause or I can do this while you guys are talking. It's up to you. Is is it going to be the same EIR number? Yes. then it's not that difficult. Yeah, I I I would still rather take a couple minute break to allow him to not be under the pressure of us sitting here with all eyes stared on him. I think that that's I think it's appropriate if we're going to split this out to give you Let's take a five minute break. Great. Just do we need to take a motion on that? It's fine. You can just Okay. Yeah.

Hang on. Oh, uh, Chair St. John, the the attorney wants to look at it before you. So, just a couple more minutes. So, sorry. Okay. Sorry. I was just waiting till Guido was finished before I started trying to follow. I'm done. Se Okay. Uh, I think we want the um incorporate by reference the recital listed above since um so that would go after one on this one. Um I'm sorry, what say it again?

So you see how you you you I agree I agree with your first um bullet to find any environmental impacts blah blah blah. And then I think the second one um before you say approve a a design permit sorry approve the removal it should say it should be incorporate by reference the recital listed above you don't have to retype it it's on your other slide I think just copy and paste it

okay uh approve a design uh approve the removal direct the applicant require You go back to the previous one. Sorry. Go Rob.

Thank you. Um, you keep set up for another two minutes and I'll just start telling my jokes like I do at my project meetings. Really? You should. It's a parks joke. May call the meeting to order again. Commissioner Jacobson, you volunteered to make a motion.

What do you want me to do first?

Motion one. Motion permit. Okay, that's kind of planning commission to adopt resolution 2026 recommending recommending that the city council approve the design and review permit for the new MercedesBenz car dealership at opportunity area 3.2 2 of the Dunes Development 21101 First Avenue and find that this action is adequately addressed in EIR number 2000491167 certified for the University Villages specific plan. that the planning commission based on findings conditions of approval and the sequel determination referenced here too does hereby recommend the city council. Do I have to read all six of those?

Um you can just say as identified on the slides as identified on the slide as conditions of approval. Do we vote on that one first or we have a second? I second. I'd like to make a friendly amendment that Mercedes be replaced with the actual name of our of the owner. It says Mercedes-Benz shouldn't be I'm sorry. What? So, so the actual what the actual corporation is unbound not

or the unstoppable group. No. Um, so wouldn't it be wouldn't it be Monso Group and not Mercedes-Benz? Who's responsible for? I In which language were you saying? Uh, he's referring to my third party to condition. Okay, it just it says direct the applicant parentheses Mercedes-Benz. Yes, it should say direct the applicant unstoppable. Yeah, I mean it's a Yeah, that's that's totally fine and I can change that throughout the condition if that's acceptable to the planning commission.

Yeah, that would be my that's that's my friendly amendment. So, somebody can agree or disagree or to second it uh in my uh proposal or my uh motion and I accept that friendly amendment. Okay, I second again. again. Okay. U Commissioner Simmons, yes. Commissioner Jacobson, yes. Commissioner Chang, yes. Chair St. John, yes. Commissioner Rana, Commissioner Baron, Vice Chair Woodson, yes. Motion passes.

Okay, second. Motion two, design and review permit. Planning Commission to adopt resolution 2026 recommending that the city council approve a tree removal permit for the new Mercedes-Benz car dealership. No, no. Oh, no. Excuse me. I I take that back. Take that back. Take that off the record.

He's already said he'll make that correction, so it's okay. Planning Commission to adopt resolution 2026 recommending that the city council approve a design and review permit for the new Mercedes-Benz car dealership at opportunity area 3.2 2 of the Dunes development 21101 First Avenue and find this action was adequately addressed in EIR number 2000491167 certified for the university vill's specific uh find that any environmental impacts from the recommended action have been previously reviewed in the environmental impact report for the university village uh EIR number the same 2000491167 and incorporated um conditions of approval.

Okay, we have a second by Commissioner Rana. Okay, Vice Chair Woodson. Yes. Commissioner Baron, Commissioner Rana, yes. Chair St. John, yes. Commissioner Chang, yes. Commissioner Jacobson, yes. Commissioner Simmons. Yes. Motion passes. Congratulations. I have one quick question, Greo. When does it when do you expect this to go before the city council? Uh, I'd like to go May 19th, but obviously that's at the discretion of the city manager. He controls the agenda, but that's our goal. So, thank you very much. Appreciate your time tonight. Thank you, Toito. Again,

thank you. Thank you. Okay, let's move on to the second uh can find it. Yeah, our second consent agenda item. It's not public. It's a public hearing. public hearings is gas station.

Um, so Chair St. John, uh, Brad is our contract planner who's been helping with the dunes for over four years, and he'll be the project planner for this, uh, conditional use permit. He's online right now. Okay. He has a presentation, Brad. He does.

Uh, good evening, chair, commissioners. My name is Brad Evansson. with regional government services and uh uh we have been contracting with the city to uh help out with the dunes for um almost 5 years at least. Um so uh with your permission I'll go ahead and start my presentation. Let me share the screen. Okay. Is everyone seeing this? Yes.

Great. Okay. So, this is a uh conditional use permit for a drive-through lane uh for a previously approved gas station, car wash, convenience store located at the northwest corner of Delmonte and Mjen Parkway. And I don't know if it's moving. It's not moving on my screen. I don't know why. Oh, that was weird. Don't know what happened there. Try this again. Go to go to slideshow, Brad.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's what I'd done before. Okay. Let's see if it works this time. Okay, good. The project site again, it's at the uh the northwest corner of Imjen and uh Delonte uh Boulevard where the red arrow is. It's uh a little over uh 1.3 acres. multiple use zoning within the UV uh the University Villages specific plan. Um it's uh known as opportunity parcel 1A. It's located within phase 2 north. Uh the remainder of the larger development area up there does include uh potential hotels, restaurants, and commercial entertainment uses as proposed. Uh general plan is multiple use. The zoning is multiple use within the university uh villages specific plan. Uh on December 14th, 2023, uh the planning commission did approve site and architectural design review 23-00009 um for a 12 pump gas station, 4,950T convenience store, and a car wash. Subsequent to that, lot line adjustment 24-00004A or 004 was approved to revise the property line between the site and the future hotel site uh at the western boundary of the project to um uh better align with um what the site improvements were ultimately going to be as the the parking was uh being configured. Uh this is what the site plan was generally approved as uh back in December of 23. Um, the site has not changed drastically, but the addition of the drive-thru does uh change some things. The building has been shifted a little bit southerntherly and uh some of the parking spaces have been taken up. Uh the developer has determined that a drive-thru quickserve food operation would in fact complement the overall development. Uh, as is common with uh uh

multi-use uh gas station facilities like this, uh the drive-through lane would start at the north elevation of the building directly off of the driveway that comes into the site from breakwater. Uh it would uh proceed down the west elevation where the uh uh to the drive-through window, allowing for a stacking space of approximately 10 vehicles. uh vehicles would exit at the southwest corner of the building and they would either proceed straight to the driveway exit on uh onto Im or they would turn back towards the gas uh station car wash parking area. Uh the convenience store interior has been reconfigured to create a restaurant space within an area previously designated as office storage. Um the developer on this site has uh kind of made this a running uh evolution of the project of how they wanted to con uh configure it. So this has been a a change that uh uh has kind of gone through multiple um itinerations I guess. Um, the exterior modifications to the building would be minor and include minor reconfiguration of the east elevation doors to the restaurant space and the addition of a drive-through window on the west elevation. The drive-through lane would result in the loss of six parking stalls, but it does still provide more than the required amount of parking. Um, I think it's still overparked by five or six stalls. I forget the exact number, but it's it we're no in no danger of being underparked on the site. Uh this is the proposed site plan. Um this is the overall site plan. So you can see the entirety of the development. You can see the uh drive-through lane as it uh bulbs around at the northwest corner of the building where the uh the order board would be. And then um as it runs down and stacks towards the uh drive-through window at the near the southwest corner of the building.

And then you can see as the driveth through lane exits into the the main circulation of the site where the vehicles can either exit out onto Im or they can return back into the parking area or the gas or the car wash. Here's the detail of how it would look as it wraps around the building. And these are the elevations. Um the doors on this side on the left side of the screen, those are the doors uh to the restaurant area. Um it's very similar to what was there before when it was originally storage and office space. They had uh I think it if I remember correctly, it was a single door and um less uh storefront window glazing around it. And they've obviously made that minor change to do that. And then on the lower image, you can see where the drive-through window is at the near the south uh end of the building to maximize the storage space for vehicles. Questions and comments that we received. Um MST did express concerns that riders at the bus stop on engine have a clear path to the convenience store. Uh there have been other concerns uh expressed regarding overall circulation on the site. It is a relatively tight and busy site. That is without question. Uh concerns have also been expressed regarding potential noise during nighttime operations and questions were expressed about the capacity of the drive-through lane and its impacts to circulation. Um in general uh what we are expecting to do with this and and the developer uh when they make their presentation, they can be asked these questions and go into more detail. Uh we are going to be adding a condition of approval that would include um a requirement that the developer prior to uh issuance of a certificate of occupancy and

commencement of operations that they submit a comprehensive on-site striping and signage plan to uh better delineate paths of circulation. uh directional arrows for vehicles. Identify pedestrian pathways from from the various points uh various elements of the site like from the gas pumps back to the convenience store for uh that kind of pedestrian space. Uh uh coming up from the bus stop, however that is whatever the appropriate pathway is for that. Making sure that uh the pedestrians are deconlicted with the traffic, that sort of thing. Um the nighttime operations uh I will let the uh developer go into more detail on that. They have not identified a uh tenant for the space yet. Uh they are in negotiations with some preliminarily. So uh that could be uh to be determined, but that can certainly be managed with uh restrictions on hours of operation uh limiting uh the volume that comes out of the the speaker on the menu board, that sort of thing. Uh the drive-through lane again uh that is identified as having stacking capacity for 10 vehicles. And um obviously the large scale uh operations that everyone knows about the the Chick-fil-Ass, the Dutch Brothers, um the the In-N-Out Burgers, uh those typically do not operate within a gas station. So it's unlikely that we're going to get a largecale tenant um operator. Uh so in all likelihood the the 10 uh vehicle stacking space should be sufficient for most uh potential operators within that particular built environment. Uh for conditions of approval um the planning commission approval of uh site and architectural devel uh design review uh included several conditions of approval pertaining to signage, landscaping and circulation. Those are

proposed to be incorporated into into this application as well. Uh specifically at one point the applicant has proposed several signs with this particular application but they will be considered as part of a future master sign program which was an original condition on the site and architectural design review. Condition of approval six would require that the developer install ballards between the drive-thru and the west parking area. There is a space that's identified at the bulb of the drive-thru. And I can go back a couple of screens. Um, up here in in the uh upper left corner where the the drive-through lane becomes extremely close to the other pass through lane, that was identified as having a rolled curb. And that was to provide utility truck access to the uh uh equipment for the EV charging stations, which are the parking stalls back down here. And so we're requiring that they put ballards in that can be removed so that the utility vehicles can remove them to gain access. But otherwise it it would prevent uh random traffic trying to like avoid slowdowns or or traffic jams at the intersection there to jump through and and sneak their way out of that way. Um, condition of approval number seven would be the condition that requires the applicant to submit the on-site striping and signage circulation plan that I mentioned previously. A secret determination. On May 31st, 2005, the city certified EIR number 2000491167 for the university villages specific plan, including making all required findings and determinations and adopting a mitigation monitoring and reporting program. Drive-through lanes are not referenced in the UVSP, the specific plan. As such, the specific plan defers to the city's zoning ordinance, which finds that drive-through lanes are conditionally permitted within all commercial districts of the city. The planning department has thus determined that as conditioned, the project will not result in new significant

environmental impacts or effects or result in a substantial increase in the severity of significant impacts previously identified in the EIR for the specific plan. And with that, the staff recommendation is that the planning commission open a public hearing, adopt a resolution 2026- future number uh approving a conditional use permit for the drive-through operation at a previously approved gas station, convenience store, and car wash at the northwest corner of Second Avenue in Delonte Boulevard and or Second Avenue, Delonte Boulevard, and Imun Parkway on the property located at 3001 Second Avenue, which is opportunity area 1A of the Dunes development subject to the conditions of approval contained in exhibit B of the staff report as amended as we've discussed and then find that the proposed uses and improvements will not result in new significant environmental impacts or effects or a substantial increase in the severity of significant impacts previously identified in the university village specific plan EIR e number 2000491167 and I am available if you have any questions.

Okay, thank you. Thank you for the staff report. Um, so what about our commissioners? Any comments? Let's see. We do have uh see Commissioner Jacobson, you were first. Thank you, Chair. Um, I understand that, um, it's been determined that this will not impact or change the the EIR, but I'm wondering when we had a gas station and we had a car wash and we had a walk-in store, but now we have a drive-thru restaurant that may attract people that may not even be interested in the other two or three services on that site. Isn't that going to increase the number of cars that are, you know, um coming in and then entering and then egress uh through the chair, it likely will have a a some level of increase. I would uh defer to the uh applicant's traffic engineer who I believe is online and available for comment as to actually here in the audience, Brad.

Oh, even better. Um,

well, they they can do a better job of explaining the uh level of increase. Um the fact that this is a relatively small space um it is uh expected from the developers perspective that um while it it's a welcome increase in the business it would not be a substantial increase um that would um result in uh an increase in the severity of significant impacts as we discussed. Hey commissioners, my name is Harvey Dadwal. I am the developer. Um, regarding your concern regarding the traffic increase due to extra juice. Actually before it was uh the whole thing was convenience store. So now the convenience store is the only less than little 3,000 and this side is little less than 2,000 then is a bathroom all those things but anyway so basically the total scare foods of the convenience store is the same. So your concern is regarding the if we have a bigger store definitely we can offer lot more items. So now we will offer less items in the convenience store and then we have a food in this side. So that will offset that concerns and the second thing is like gas if you pretty much every all the commissioners know gas is shrinking every day. So I have another Chevron gas stations my revenue from the gas is about 30% less than used to be. So that's a big concern for me. Uh I'll be honest with you guys. I never planned to do a gas station here. I was looking to something like a

fast food but I mean a restaurant sit down restaurant or something different. But due to the uh my agreement I have to do this thing. So I was required or like basically forced to do this thing. So I'm doing this thing. So now I'm looking how I can offset my income uh what I'm going to lose and I know that it's not a good proposition in the long run and it's a lot of big investment what I am doing it's a risk but I that's now I'm looking something in incremental income that can offset what I will lose on the other hand. Yeah. So this is the main thing and uh I mean if another concern please let me know.

Thank you sir. Yeah. Thank you.

Um just for all the commissioners, um when the um entire site was re reviewed and approved a year and a half ago or so, um there was a condition of approval that required a traffic study be done and that a report come back to us in one year after the opening to determine if that entrance on MGEN and and the exit on MJIM creates any kind of a traffic issue. So, I don't know if that helps anybody. Thank you, Harvey. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Jacobson. Uh, Commissioner Simmons. Uh, Commissioner Jacobs actually asked the question that I was going to ask too, but I do want to comment that that was one of the concerns that I had was the um the traffic increase, potential traffic increase uh coming out of the um uh gas station uh onto Im Parkway. I think we all know that that's a uh pretty much a choke point now uh especially for any traffic that wants to go uh southbound uh onto Highway One. um that traffic is if they want to go take that direction. Uh there's a concern, but it sounds like in the previous approve uh approval that that's going to be relooked at uh and uh uh sounds like uh also that with a reduction of sales and gas that uh perhaps the traffic isn't going to be as much. I think I did note also though in there that uh there was a change. I think I believe I saw the the previous drawing showed that the the um uh entrance and uh exits on uh Breakwater. There's two two entrances

and access, I believe, on Breakwater um that were previously uh accessible uh before the drive-thru uh to traffic that has now looks like in the new drawing that uh any traffic coming out of the drive-thru, they can still access them, but but it appears that they're going to have to circumvent the entire uh Mini Mart, I guess, uh station there. Is is that correct in what I saw? Okay.

Uh through the chair. Um let me go back to the site plan. Um okay, here's here's the larger scale. Uh the traffic would come into the drive-thru and when it comes out, it has the uh traffic has the option of either going out to the access to Immigen directly or yes, looping around the south end of the building and then back out onto breakwater. Uh there are two access points, but the the westerly access point, the one behind the convenience store building just serves the uh the EV charging uh parking stalls. Um so it's really kind of a limited access point. Originally, the original proposal that came before the planning commission in 23 or that uh was proposed to go before the planning commission in 23 um had that westerly drive lane going all the way through to the desired access point to MGEN. And we looked at that as too much of a potential for uh traffic coming out of the future hotels to just bypass the the signals at uh second uh and MGEN and just flow massively on straight onto engine through the back of the of the gas station site. And so the the site was reconfigured to close off that access point. So really there is functionally one primary access point from the site onto breakwater that that serves the car washes, the gas station and the convenience store. So uh and that's the one up in the center of the site here uh that goes on to breakwater. So I I don't know if that answers your question properly, but that's how the site goes. And the condition that was imposed to require a traffic study or or traffic impact assessment covers the whole site. So, we wouldn't just look at what's happening to engine. We would look at the functionality of the whole site, including the drive-through lane.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you, uh, Vice Chair Wilson. Woodson.

So, I'll ask a few questions and I'll turn it back over and I come back with other questions. Um so the first thing is this some of these most of these are staff combination. Um the first one is I'd like to know the whole history of the changes since over the last two years and that because the initial plan that came before us and it was approved has had multiple iterations. And so what I would like to know is I'd like to know that the iterative process of how we got to today um first part of it. The second part of that is once I kind of understand that I would like to understand the issue that this the issue of I'm going to call it silence in the sight specific plan. There is silence on in our sight specific plan on drive-throughs and as a result of that we are taking that as a default. Let's approve this. I'm not sure if that's the correct interpretation. And that leads me to the second part of it is if I make that assumption then how where is the decision of what allows for a conditional use and what requires us to go all the way back to the beginning on design review. So that would be my first two parts. Um the second one is uh looking at the map we talk about the sight specific map that effectively there is one entry point except that I'm literally looking at this and seeing oh look there's a whole set of parking spaces for a second entry point on the back side and I see the drive-in window is going to go on the backhand side. I know that the inside has been reconfigured. And what is to to stop a another reconfiguring to put a a primary back door entrance for those two handicap spaces and six other spaces that are sitting in the back down the road so that we keep incrementally getting continued use changes that come up. The second part of that is going to be that the applicant itself just described it

that I'm look I've I'm trying to make a profit. I'm trying to do that and I understand that and I and I that's it's hard in today's economy to do that to try to do that. At the same time another conditional use one is gas stations have EV stations. Are we going to get a continual use that comes back and says I want to have more charging stations in here. I mean, how many how many times do we get incrementally added that we kind of bypass the aggregate that creates a condition that comes back? And that's my concern is that we're so I going back to the first part, I'd like to understand the history of how many changes were were negotiated with the planning staff before we got to the point of adding this to our agenda today. So, I'll leave it kind of those two questions in four parts to start with. Um so what the 2023 is what's been carried forward in the building.

Um inter uh I don't believe I don't believe that's true. I think the inside has been reconfigured a couple times has it not?

But those are interior modifications that not are not the purview of the planning commission. So those are just a building permit. So um and then to answer your question about um yeah so the specific plan has very specific language that says you know you have to follow the specific plan but if something you know is basically silent then you have to punt to the zoning code and that's why you're here today because zoning code allows a conditional use permit u for this use with a drive-thru. So that that's uh yeah so in terms of continued uses that um you know if there are more substantial changes we will make the applicant come back before the planning commission. So

through the chair the uh there have been minor changes that have happened in the in the plan check process as Guido mentioned primarily they've been to the interior um there was one change to the exterior of the building where um the the need for however the structural requirements of the roof trusses uh necessitated the elimination of some uh previously approved or initially approved clearster windows at the along the upper edge of the uh the east elevation, the front of the building. Um minor changes like that that that don't necessarily rise to the level of of bringing the project back to the planning commission um due to the relatively minor nature of them. Um, I mean I I I there I mean there have been uh some minor changes just throughout the site as the part of the plan check process, but they've primarily been interior related or minor construction related. Um uh they went through some uh configuration issues uh due to the the slope uh putting together retaining walls along breakwater. Um but that didn't really affect uh the the site to any drastic um level. Again, not really rising to the level of uh uh staff determining whether the project needed to be brought back to the planning commission for further consideration because it didn't alter the functionality of anything and didn't drastically alter the appearance of anything. So, um, I'm I apologize for not having a detailed running list of the changes during the plan check, but I honestly wasn't expecting the drive-thru to come in in the midst of the process either. So,

um, that's okay. I think, but didn't the didn't we start with saying didn't the building the whole foundation of the building move to the east to to ensure that we could situate this drive-thru?

Um, I'd have to I'd have to go back and look at that. I with the lot line adjustment that went through um initially they the original proposal I don't I don't know that it had it moved um but it had it situated because uh there's common ownership of the uh hotel parcels and this parcel um the developer initially didn't really take the lot lines into consideration as thoroughly as we would have preferred. So, we had the lot line adjustment done um as an after the fact thing to to clean up that that whiff. Um so, I I don't recall that the building moved overtly. Um but it it's still the same size building and uh we still have the same drive-thru or drive aisle widths that uh we had originally. Um and and so I don't think there have been drastic changes on that. Uh the interior of the building has gone through uh a couple of conceptual changes as the developer has explored what their options were for um uh filling out the use of of the building. But again, nothing that's that's risen at the level of bringing the project back until now. He had a comment he wanted to make in response. I'm fine with that. It's up to you, chair. I think he had a response that

uh my name is Ben Wilson with civil engineer with Monterey Bay Engineers. The building moved five feet I want to say five feet east and five feet no five feet south and five feet west and then there was a but the lot line adjustment that was a separate issue. I wasn't involved with the lot line adjustment, but there was a small change in the building location by five and five. Okay. Other than that, the site plan, I wasn't the original project civil. I've come in later to fine-tune and detail what's going on. Um, and other than that, I have not moved.

That's fine. I think my my question was more along the lines of okay, did we move the do we move the building to help facilitate this and so it sounds like the answer is no. It's hard to tell reading all the the material. So that's why I just wanted to I just wanted to understand, right? So if the answer is if it is they moved especially if it moved west that that happened. So immediately before my involvement but yeah so

thank you. See, before you leave, um before you sit down, can you review for us the the charging the egress and access to the EV charging? So, it wasn't the the reason why I did a rollover curb there, and I would agree. I think remov removable ballards would be appropriate. There's a small it appears to be rect uh square. It's actually rectangular by this much. That's a transformer. That's what needs access within so many feet from these trucks for whatever purpose they do. So, in in talking with the electrical contractors, that was one of their requirements is that a truck would have to roll in directly to the transformer, which is what the the the drive-thru is bulbing around and and that would be the reason why.

Okay. But I would agree removable ballards there would would be appropriate. And how does the the access to the EV charging from breakwater street that is a separate access? It it sort of dead ends. It does dead end and and so if you if you're going to use the EV chargers, that's what you use and and then you drive off when you finish and you go back out the way you came in.

Right. Okay. what is to the to the west? Uh there's a lot of dotted lines like you know like it could be access to that adjacent uh so what you're seeing is lot from my perspective because I haven't been involved you'd have to ask Mr. dog wall of all the planning. I haven't been involved in all the planning. You're seeing ghostlines of possibilities. Okay. Nothing has gelled.

But that those ghost lines, it's possibilities that the I guess the next door would be the hotel would have a possible access to EV charging. Correct. Is it that right?

Theoretically, yes. that there could be access depending on how the final site configuration for the future hotel might be done. That's all parking uh directly to the west of the convenience store site. Um and then that continues on for uh uh some some distance before you would uh get close to the hotel building. And I would assume that there would also be chargers within the hotel property itself, but uh theoretically they they may be able to have access uh from the parking lot aisles. Um as you can see with some with the kind of ghost lines as described in red. That was one of the original um proposals and they've they've obviously made changes and and overlaid this onto that. Um so whether those would remain with a future development is that remains to be seen until the hotel property u has a development proposal um formally submitted. But at this point, yes, at at this point it's simply a a dead-end single access to the EV chargers. Um, and to answer an earlier um question about whether the building would be reconfigured to provide um a a rear access, that would not likely happen. The way the uh proposed floor plan is is is set. That that's the the kitchen side, the actual cooking prep side uh along the western wall there where the drive-through window would be. And there already is uh a single entrance off of a an outdoor patio at the very south end of the building. And that was actually part of the original approval for the site and architectural uh design review. So what would happen is people that park in the EV chargers would walk through the crosswalk across the drive-through lane at the southern end of the building and then they could theoretically go in

that way. So that's how that would go. Okay. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner Chen.

Thank you, Chair. Uh, my question is to Brad. Um, do you have a diagram showing the traffic flow? Imagine, okay, this is a location. You have a car wash, a pump station, a drive-thru store, and the EV charges, right? Imagine during the peak hours all the car that coming in. Do you have a schematic drawing to show the traffic flow like coming in from engineing to second avenue and coming in? How the cars that going to the uh drive-through store and the car that going to the pump station, the car going to the car wash stations uh how to avoid the conflict on that? And imagine if all the cars are coming at the same time and then you have car that going out to the engine pathway and cars are coming in from engine parkway. My second question is the engine parkway will be very packed. All right. The traffic basically I realized the car they driving on engine parkway they are speeding. They are not slow drivers. And um you have a traffic light that you have a bus stop over there. So I can imagine it would be very crowded area. So I like to see a a diagram with the traffic flow there. We could see how the car coming in and going out without any conflicts.

Remember this. We've got a condition of approval on that. You have a condition. We'll know that'll be studied and so will the whole thing and and report will come back to us within that year. after a year one year. Okay. That was it's not a condition of brutal to proceed. No, it's a condition of approval that after one year. Yes. How many wrecks there were or how many whatever there is. Yeah. But that's the idea. Well, it's good to know because that was before on the commissions, right? But again, okay, let's say you have a then how about the the traffic that coming in. How

I just trying to imagine, you know, would be very congested. I mean if they're coming in the the flow I like to see a schematic drawing on that and and so that we know how to avoid conflicts here. Let let me for the internal if I can come in here a minute. All of this is approved. This is all done. The only thing we're looking at is this. See through. That's it. I understand. I I understand have been approved. But again, I I just I mean for just to make sure that the drive through here, you have increase on the traffic flow here. All right.

Yeah. So, so I I just want to see whether have has it been taking into consideration the traffic would not were not u like moving from one direction to another direction will not create the you know confusion there you know and um that's all I'm thinking

well through the chair um if if I may I mean it's it's there's obviously this is a a very busy drawing there's a lot of data on it but there are arrows those directional arrows showing the traffic flow in in all directions. Um coming in and out of Immigen uh crossing along the southern edge of the property heading towards the uh the car wash queuing area. Um going in front of the in between the gas pumps and the convenience store building. Um I mean there there is uh a very basic um layout of of what the traffic flow is supposed to be in terms of volume. Um we we have no way of knowing how popular this this location will ultimately be, how busy it will be. Um the uh the addition of the access to and from uh originally um staff was not in favor of it. Um the applicant did request it because obviously having uh just the access on breakwater um that's just one choke point into the whole site obviously made that difficult and hence having the access onto engine with the condition of approval requiring that um a comprehensive traffic analysis be done within a year of operations commencing to see should we keep that access point open should we close it um is Is it causing a problem? I mean, we're going to assess the entire site now with with the addition of the drive-thru. Uh that's going to fold into uh that whole process anyway. So, we'll be able to better assess all of that. And again, um, we've added the condition of approval requesting that the, uh, applicant prepare a comprehensive, uh, signage and striping plan for the site. that would um hopefully help

delineate paths of travel for pedestrians and vehicles to to better show um where is the the delineation for turning left into one area or or turning right into one area um just to better control the flow of traffic. So um that's part of the conditions that we proposed for tonight. So hopefully we'll be able to manage that process and and keep it from becoming a problem.

Yeah, thank you Bradley for the clarification. I think that that's the main thing I I I trying to drive at. I think we need to monitor it very carefully because I don't want all the traffic that going in and spill into internal circulations and uh it would be very kind of confusing there. So I think it's good that we monitor it and u annually and and just make sure that everything is run smoothly.

I'm not against the project. I think it's a good project but I think it's just we just have to monitor make sure the traffic uh will not create any uh concerns here. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you, Commissioner Rano. No leftover. Okay, Commissioner Vice Chair Woodson. Not yet. I had one. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Let me, you know, let me I just have one concern and and I I think that the exit onto engine will become a very difficult and I think the onion in this section of engine it's two lanes in one lane must turn right and go north on Highway One and the other lane must turn go over the bridge and turn left to go south on Highway One. And the going south on Highway One very often is chocker block full. Okay. at at many times of the day during peak traffic hours and also almost anytime. Uh because I I I've used that that lane and I and there's a lot of of uh challenges at Second Avenue traffic light with people in the right hand lane that really don't intend to be in the right hand lane and they're going right past this site with people exiting that want to get over in the lefthand lane. So, you know, you're going to have a a very congested exit and and cars that are not going to be patient, you know, because a lot of people on MGen are not patient. So I think that that the exit you you

have to be prepared that after a year you might be requested to close that exit.

Yeah, I I uh appreciate your concerns. I drive that every morning and the right lane is is actually that's a passing lane for all the people that are going to go south on um and but a lot of people going south don't recognize that it was the passing lane. And uh as somebody who's at the site daily and then comes down Second Avenue and makes my right hand turn onto MJM to go onto the highway, um there's another issue with uh Men at Second. When the light turns green, wait because two more cars are coming through off that left turn. So enforcement in general could be stepped up. People could be better. I would agree on

Yeah. the concerns. It's the same people that don't know what a stop sign is. Depends. If it's got a white border, it's a recommendation. That's what I heard. I think Sorry. That's a All right. And let's open it up to public comment from here uh in in attendance.

How you doing? Oh, heck, I'm I'm here. I might as well speak on this too. I actually was here when the um I imagin parkway entrance ingress egress was discussed and I had similar concerns of people constantly stopping there to turn in and people pulling out. Um and I I do distinctly remember your concerns as well and the condition to come back and re-evaluate what kind of problems they had there. And what happens if you do allow a drive-thru and you have to tell them, "I'm sorry, there's been too many accidents there. We have to close that." So now you have all these cars trying to get out there and you've lost one egress, you know, ingress, egress. Um it just seems like a lot to pack into that that space. Um, you already have people who want to get gas. They're going to want to go to car wash. And now you can have people that are specifically going to go in there just for a drive-thru. So now you've added more cars coming in and out. I I'm sorry.

Can't access the drive-thru other than the exit. Honestly, can we can we let the speaker can we let the speaker finish? Thanks.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um my training of thought. Um so point point being, you know, I appreciate first of all, thank you, Mr. Dobbo, and I apologize for being, you know, kind of opposing of this idea. I appreciate what you've brought to Marina and the hotels and in the future and the gas station, the car wash, and and I appreciate your your concerns about the loss in gas sales. Um, I do encourage, you know, for him to consider with a restaurant in there that people can get food while they're already pulled in there. Um, but adding another drive-thru, I'm not sure is the best idea. Um, there's no decision made yet about what kind of uh restaurant will go in there. And and I know it's unlikely we get some sort of crazy In-N-Out or um Chick-fil-A or something that exceeds that 10 car limit, but there's no guarantee of that. Anything can happen. But once you approve this and some restaurant comes in that we don't know about, now what do we do if it's really popular and there were 20 cars, 25 cars, um how do we address that issue, that that backlog? Um there's going to be a hotel there as well, maybe two. Um, I understand there's, you know, up to two or maybe three hotels. So, now there's more traffic going in. Um, I would hope that these hotels are going to be kind of nice ocean view. Um, we want to add drive-thrus in there, too. Um, I really don't think it's necessary, but I do hope at least he opens up a restaurant in there and serve some food. That'd be nice. Um, that's my input. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any other public comments from the uh attendees? Okay.

Uh and no, no one's online. Chair online, I wanted Okay. Uh Vice Chair Woodson, you wanted to

Okay, thanks. Um some number of different things on a wide variety of topics and hopefully this will be it for me. Um like first off business is driven at gas station gas station convenience stores gas station convenience store with car washes by the price of gas. If the price of gas is low enough it's going to drive customers to the business and then everything else becomes secondary to that. I mean he's the the developer is going to make x amount the owner is going to make x amount of money sense that's driven by the distribution system because that's how gas prices work. So we could have lots of cars, we could have not. A lot of that's is ultimately not necessarily driven by the developer. It's going to be driven by what the the distributor of the fuel is providing on what he's going to be able to charge. And we have seen that in this city. If all you have to do is go one exit up and get off and we have a gas station that was literally owned. He fought the gas company and the gas company literally drove him out of business. I mean, they forced him to close and sell because he tried to hold his cost. So, the price of gas is a is going to be a driver of traffic. I think everything else becomes secondary and how do we make money off of that? Um, that said, we also have some examples of where restaurants and and combined food prep, on-site food prep with a gas station works or doesn't work. All you have to do is go 3/4 of a mile east or market. that literally for years was a shop at and it had food prep areas in there. They tried to run it for years in a food market one and eventually they've just stopped. So I think there is some precedent setting on on what the level of of throughput is. I mean is this going to do this and then I think when we add that to the added one that people generally don't want to hit other people when

they're driving. We we take that road. Now, the exception being on the highway itself, but once you get into a parking lot, generally people don't want to hit each other. So, they will self-regulate the parking. And a great example of that is the new pilot station in Selenus. Extremely well populated with cars because it's one of the lowest priced gas stations in Selenus. And cars will line up there all day long and they'll be they'll fill up all the ones and then all the cars will disappear. And everybody has figures out how to make it work and move through a gas station. So, I don't necessarily have a problem with the internal traffic flow. What I do have an issue with, one of the issues I have with this is equity across the city of Marina. Um, one of the big things we have done downtown core, we have specifically said in a downtown vitalization plan, no more drive-in windows. We said that's it. We have 14 or 12 and we don't want anymore. We're not going to approve it. It was grandfathered in and if something changes, they're not may not even get to keep it. Marina Landing or and that we just reviewed two months ago. We basically said we don't want out parcels that have drive-in windows there. And so what are we saying to all the residents on this side of town and this side being non old not the Ford order development when we go back to the same thing that we have allowed to do for the dunes and Sea Haven and every everybody on the other on the new side of town the old Ford side they get whatever they want. They get all the development they get all the commercial growth they get all the new housing they get they get all this stuff. What do we get over here on this side of town? Oh, now we're going to You can't have drive-in windows over here, but oh, you want to put a drive-in window over on your side of town, you can have that. That's not being equitable to the residents of Marina.

And that and that's nothing against the the process of the business itself, but there has to be a like why is it good for that? Why is it good there? Yet, we're telling everybody else that wants to have development property in the city, you can't have it. That's I mean it's almost kind of hypocritical of us to kind of say oh yes we should just approve this when we were telling everybody else no you can't have it anymore. Um so that's my my kind of first one. Um c can I follow up with you? I'm not I I guess I wish I had the map. Is this within the uh the zone of the downtown plan? No it isn't. No. No. I mean the downtown zone goes like two blocks up this way. That's what I thought. And

that's it. My my point is more we're telling every other developer that wants to build in most of the commercial areas of the city, you can't have a drive-in window. Yet, we're turning around to the new area where the newest development has gone in for years and we're saying, "Oh, well, you can have one." And it just feels like that's it's a double standard that we're creating. It's that's that's not fair to the developers on this side of town. Um so next question I had in statement was see um in the earlier discussion today we talked about um noise and so we have residential noise and we care about residential noise and we literally wrote a condition into the previous topic tonight that said you have to have silent page you have to have silent pagers for to talk with your staff on site yet. We're going to turn around where we're going to put a hotel right behind it. I mean, I guess it's not residential. It's not the dunes with their one one and a half to two million dollar homes that we care about, but it is hotel guests. And so we're going to put a speaker and again it's not that it may be really loud but again if we have a condition if if we decide to approve this I believe there should be a condition on making sure that the noise level cannot be heard over outside the property boundary for example um because we don't want to have a situation where we have hotel guests coming in and it's like okay again we're creating a double standard it's we it's not good for Mercedes and they have to deal with it but it's okay here and It's Oh, because they're long-term res long-term residential residents in the Dunes phase 3 versus hotel guests. Is that really different? I mean, hotel guests bring in toot every night they stay here. So, they should have a good experience. Um, so I think that's another area that I'm

I'm questioning on on this. Um I mean I guess in the end I just I I have a lot of concerns about bringing this forward and that this is is creating scope creep that's going to keep coming back on us in other places and that I appreciate what is I appreciate the concept of what we're trying what the developer is trying to do here and the owner is trying to do which is create more business opportunities and profit margins so he can stay in business. At the same time, it just feels like we're we're conceding a lot of things that we have made decisions on over the last two and a half years across the city and other places and we've said, "No, we're not going to do this anymore." And now we're turning around and we may be saying, "Well, we're not doing it for you all, but we'll do it here."

That's my my comments. Thank you, Chair Wood, Vice Chair Woodson. Uh, we know I've got a a question followup to uh Mr. Woodson's comments. Does the Dunes specific plan allow drive-thru windows? Is it part of the specific plan? So, the the Dune specific is silent on drive-thrus. Uh, and so the specific plan says if there's some silence on it, go back to the zoning code.

So the zoning code allows it with a conditional use permit, which is why you're here tonight, right? So that was my question right at the beginning. So it's our our it we're not bound by our decision isn't bound by law. It's discretionary. Um, well, you have to follow, you know, what we've done in the past. Yeah. I mean, our local ordinances and, you know, it has to be reasonable and Right. Yeah. I think he's I I think he's saying it's a conditional use permit, so it's not a it's not a by right. Yeah. Yeah. It's not by right. Not a by right.

Yeah. Had it been identified in the specific plan for the dunes that it is by right then we wouldn't be here tonight. We Right. Okay. So I would have just approved it or Yeah. potentially approved it. Okay. All right. Is this a conditional use? It is. Yes. Where does it say resolution? B. Item B, gas station drive-thru conditional use permit. Uh, it's on the first page of the staff report. So, the first page of the staff report. I was just reading the resolution.

I thought I thought I was actually supposed to say that. Uh, I'm okay. Condition. Yeah, Raina. Commissioner R. Conditional Rain. Yeah, but we can certainly add that to the rest.

Okay. Um, my comment is about the equitability versus necessity. Taking Marina as a homogeneous unit may be kind of unfair because the pattern of traffic coming into Marina from Belmont and from Inen, they're two different things. and uh the area in question the density of uh traffic and the population and also the drive-throughs it is totally invariance uh and you can treat in fact as two cities because on engine the traffic is coming from Selenas and going to the south and a marina they are coming to this thing. So necessity dictates that there is shortage of such facilities in that area. So there is a business proposal. Yes, it will benefit the developer and uh then we have the necessity also that it will benefit because a new hotel is going to come up there and uh then there is shortage of uh such facilities in that part of the city. So I think uh we have to consider from that perspective rather than just saying that in Marina we have growing number of uh the drive-through windows.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah, Commissioner Woodson is absolutely right. We have we have is it citywide or is it just the commission and the city council that have taken a position of a no more is it codified?

It's an indirect position. It's it's formal in the downtown vitalization plan. It is a recommendation in the general plan that isn't published that's in draft. It's an I think it's a best management practice I believe but but that's not finalized so it doesn't count and it has been a a discussion point that we have had on the commission with developers in other properties across the city. Okay. So but there's no there's no there's no formal policy that says no, we can't have them.

So I just I mean I have my I just I have my my stake on what we're doing at this point. But it's it is plan. It is. Yes. That's the only place it is.

And I think on the same analogy denying some facility coming up in a new area just because the we already taken some decision marina wise. So we have new developments coming up say marina station and the other areas also. So on the this analogy those areas we might say that we've already reached the saturation to develop certain facilities and those areas that'll be denying uh to the residents and to the commuters of that area by saying that we have taken a decision no more drive-throughs. So that'll be unfair. Well, just a counterargument to that from from me is that the safety the extra unsafe condition the the engine entry exit was added a year and a half ago or so or it was at least discussed and this drive-thru adds adds extra risk and unsafe conditions for the entrance and exit on engine. So even though it the drive-through window wasn't part of the original permitting, that's why it's here tonight. It's to add a drive-thru window for a a uh fast food type operation concurrent

with the convenience store.

And and I can see very much how that is a missing link in this area of Marina. from the the engine speedway. There is no drive-thrus and there is only one I guess it's a shell station between the halfway from uh from reservation road to highway one on impen. That's the only watering hole there.

You have Starbucks also off of Second Avenue though doesn't exit out of the entrance that also has a drive-thru that has a Well, there is a second drive there. Okay. Anyway, I I think I think earlier they uh Bradway mentioned that they will monitor it um every year, right? I think this um so that was as long as condition of approval,

correct? or the entry exit. Not and and and we didn't have at that meeting we didn't have any notion at all of a additional drive-thru a set of traffic for a drive-thru window. Yeah. This evening we are discussing this site though we are not no we're discussing the drive-thru. I know. Yeah. Very true. That's why I'm saying if there's a clear separation of traffic flow, I think that is doable. And if you know whether want to close the the asset and the entry from inim that is after the one year we could look at it and

there's a there's a there is a known traffic pattern on Men coming from reservation to highway one to go south. Correct. They are not coming down Menun from hot from reservation to turn right to go north. Yeah. You know, if I got a hunch that if that actually becomes a nuisance Yeah. as you expect that it'll be addressed long before our one-year review. Yeah. But I mean, would would that be true with law enforcement or somebody if there was

uh Yeah. And actually the commission was very smart. The way the condition of approval was written in 2023, it specifically directed us to work with the police department if there were any kind of traffic issues on the site. So um so it it could be shut down if necessary. So I have the police department had a opportunity to review this particular uh incremental No, this is this is not something we would normally Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Um so Chair St. John, uh if I may, um it sounds like we're a little bit at a standstill terms of the commission where it could go. Um, a suggestion could be that we could direct the applicant to do a very very minor kind of traffic simulation and bring that back in a month or so or try to try to get because I because I'm I'm hearing pretty loud and clear that the commission's very concerned about just circulation and traffic patterns right now. So,

one of the realities of this 2,000 square foot with a small four table interior for diners is this can't attract a Chick-fil-A or something like that. Those store those restaurants have requirements of literally like 1.5 acres just for their queue of cars. So, this will be something in the order of a a subway or a of juice. It's not a high volume, high rate of cars going through. Easy to envision the 30% offset and reduced with due to electric vehicles, reduced gas sales maybe just being offset by that alone. It's just hard to imagine the viability of a high volume restaurant occupying space.

That makes sense to me. Have you been to Starbucks lately? Uh yeah. Well, their their queue their queue backs up through the parking lot all the way to to the other area of business.

Yeah. Well, what I'm what I'm just saying is is that um we don't have any idea what's going in there and we don't have any idea what the queue is going to be. We we know we've we've planned for 10 cars to be in Q. So is 10 cars. If there's always 10 cars there, that's considerable extra traffic coming in going out to egress. Unless they're going to buy food and then go to the gas station. That usually isn't the case. You used to go to the gas station then get food.

I understand that your concerns. I'm a baby. Turn on the microphone.

I own a 30 Subway store. I have a drive-thru stores. And I know these fast food business very well because I ran myself. And my friends, they own probably lot of stores. The Taco Bells, Jamba Juice, Burger Kings. The traffic is not there. What you thinking? What you visualizing? It will be what I'm thinking is a kind of a survival. There is already one year condition. If there is any issue then police can shut down or then they will come back to the commission. But we are thinking something is not even don't know what will happen. We are talking about something we have no experience no idea. It's a Chevron gas station. It's not ARCO gas station. Gas will be expensive. It's like a high-end site. I'm building a very nice hotel in the back. I am very careful just building the way I'm doing. People don't spend that kind of money on this this kind of gas station. They just build a box with a stuckco one. There's no stuckco at all. There's all wood and clad metal claddings and stone. If you see that because I care about this area because I'm the hotel developer in this area. I already built 200 rooms and building another 300 rooms and I'm very careful what needed what's not needed. From my experience, I don't see it will generate lot of traffic because Chevron gas station is already you already probably everybody knows it's not everybody go to Chevron because gas is so expensive. So this is there is a there if is the AR of course yes then you guys can be concerned about that but not if you have

a very highend site and and also when there's other oneear condition I think it should be allowed and also commissioner Wson his concern is about the noise I should be more concerned than anyone else because my my people who visiting my hotel they will affect my business not anyone And my concern is there is a drive-thru in the Starbucks and I have a hotel right there. I have never got any complaint. Never ever. There is a highway have a more noise than the the drive-thru will generate. There's there's a highway one and you see how much traffic is over there. You will not hear even a single thing what the customer are saying over there. And there's no residential around there. You should be worried about car wash that is that have more noise when when the people vacuum the cars but not about the drive-thru guys have like when we already know that I don't even think that it will be 10 car ever over there also the the other thing is business would be kind of spread out. Gas station get busy in the morning or in the evening. If if we if you guys think about like the busy lunchtime then it's completely different. Lunch time there will be nothing over there because usually if you see imagine get busy in the morning and in the evening and there is also a sign that up to 9:00 or something you cannot make a right turn you cannot cross this thing. Why it's not for the all day? Because everybody understand that there's no traffic after that. Morning, evening is a lot of traffic. Then the middle of the day is nothing.

So if the lunch will be busy, it's lunch time. Then then the other traffic will go way down. So there's a offset if you think and also noise issue there should not be any noise issue at all because it's like a hotel is way back and what I'm concerned about more about the about the highway traffic highway noise from the this side from the drive-thru if that will if I think that I will never do this thing and also like the gas station is conven store is shrinking we have like a 3,000 now instead of 5,000 what's the difference if we add something food over like couple of food option inside that cannot be stopped so I think it's already approved it's one year condition and that should be more than enough but if if I see something I will automatically say no it is not working I will not do it I'm concerned about this thing I I I I mean I have a business and I lived here in Marina I I think I am the most highest revenue generator in city of Marina single entity that's the city told me this thing and I it will be number I mean I'm already number one it will be more revenue even so the thing is the cost whatever I I have spent money invested in marina no one have done a single entity so considering All those things we are trying to one policy to implement everywhere like like commissioner Rana said one policy cannot apply everywhere the Starbucks was allowed with the same situation same situation but why what's the issue over here

I'm also concerned about the the traffic issue or the accident or something happen if that will happen of course I I will I will voluntarily say yes I'm going to close it because it's not working there's a lot of accidents it's any it can happen to anybody my family will come every day so I'm also concerned like the other commissioner but I think we are overthinking that oh if this will happen this will happen you go to the Burger King you go to any do you see any car over there you hardly see cars vend like Mr. Ben said Ben Wilson regarding the like uh what's the name in and out burger or Czech Phill they I did talk to Czech fell and they said they need a minimum 1 and a half acre pre-standing 5,000 square foot building and then they need 1 and a2 acre space

site minimum. So this question does not arise those kind of this is very like a subway jamba juice or small things and if all the business is already in marina there's nothing that so far I'm advertising not even a single person I mean I mean just to the chair so the chair this meeting um and your discretion if you me to continue but I I believe public comment I so Yeah, we're in the public finance state and yeah, so I'm going to have to call this and let's wrap it up.

Yeah. No, that's fine. But I I think I I pretty much I like said everything we need to be like. Okay. Yeah. Thank you very much.

So So to the chair, if if I can summarize what I've heard from the applicant and the commission and just suggestions to the comm and can move forward tonight. Um, so obviously Harvey is a very reputable member community. He's doing great work two hotels. Um, but I'm hearing from the commission if if I'm hearing correctly, you know, obviously Harvey, we like you as an applicant, but we don't inside the convenience store. So, and I think there's some concern that there'll be some high volume traffic that goes inside that center. If he agrees to it, the ab the the commission could put a condition of approval that puts some parameters around what could the space be leased for in terms of and there could be some objecteria and the of I'm hear concerns that and I don't think we've heard tonight not going to be a Chick-fil-A. There's just not enough but it sounds like there's still some concern. So I just offering that as a suggestion. Um I'm still circulation. Um if the applicant is agreeable to it with simulation and bring that back to the commission. Um so I'm just trying to offer some suggestions to the commission the applicant. So

okay thank you quiddle. So

I have a another alternate bit that to to put for consideration a instead of doing a simple quickie traffic study or circulation. Instead of doing that, can we have a condition of approval that a comprehensive traffic study be done, especially not so much on the site itself, the traffic flow within the acre, but a traffic study on the egress and ingress off of Imun and what happens at the traffic light on second street or avenue.

Um so the condition of approval for requires the applicant one year from the commencement to do a traffic report and that the way the commission wrote it in 2023 is very comprehensive. So we will be making okay that but that one that one is primarily in concert with the police department until Yeah. I I think the other you can't do the traffic study until it opens. No.

Well, how will you know how many cars are coming into Men and going off of MEN and going on a second and off a second unless it's open? They do traffic studies in order to get a squa a uh EIR. Well, then that's probably already done. So, we weren't asking for a traffic study. No, we were asking for a safety study. Yeah, that's and the safety study was built around traffic. And there's a there's a that's a critical difference here. But with the existing conditions on Engine and Second Avenue right now,

what is the what does a traffic study say about cutting a new entrance and exit for this to assess addition of the drive-thru? what would be the impacts to IM engine and local roads that's something that any traffic analysis can do right so that that can be done now that can be done a year from now

well I I think I have to say something here the addition of the drive-thru is is relatively is a modest enhancement to a approved commercial site project very approved a commercial site project and driving through is just a modest requirement from the uh the developers of for Harvey and and we can put a condition approval with you know subject to one year you know a study on the safety uh factors or or traffic uh flow we could do that that already exists

well then then what's the problem putting a condition forward yeah so commissioner chain you to condition of approval 43 go to your packet. Yeah, that was previously put on the project. Um, that's already clear, right? I think we could do that, right? Yes, you can do that as well. What page is it? Uh, step three. It's page six of the conditions of approval. Page six

of the conditions of approval law. So can we can we base on that? I think that that's already have Brad. Can you pull up the independent? Yeah. I'm working on that. Thank you. So that that's very clear there you know and then uh to further uh and then Brad as the project planner is also recommending adding additional condition and and I don't want to take words out of Brad's mouth but that there will be a signage and striping plan that has to be approved by the city prior to occupancy of the building

to further assuage the concern about circulation. Yeah. And that would focus primarily on on-site circulation. So, do we have motion with that conditions? No. I mean, we can, but I'm going to make a more than friendly adjustment to it. I'm going to tell you that. Okay. Guido, you wanted the language for the the traffic study condition. Uh, that's okay with chair. Uh, yeah. Yes, please. All right. Let me get back into Zoom and share that. Okay.

Okay. For any amendment trying Okay, it's condition 43. It should be on the screen there. Can everyone see that for a while? Yeah, maybe it's So, yeah. How's that? Can everyone see that condition 43?

Yeah. Okay, that's good. Yeah. And we can certainly uh as as we've been discussing, we can certainly propose uh amending that condition to uh kind of expand the scope to look at operations specifically pertaining to the drive-thru. um or any other number of things. But yeah, this was this was done primarily to address the uh request for the access to MGEN, which was not something that uh everyone was in favor of back in 2023. So that that's why this condition is in there now. And this is an opportunity if if uh the commission so chooses to uh amend that to allow for u a more broad uh impact assessment um of of how things uh might might go on that.

Hey, Vice Chair Woodson, your lights on. Yeah, please.

Um, I don't know. I don't think it's a minor improvement. It's a minor. It's a window. Yeah, a window's small, but in inside that window, inside the business, there is a kitchen. There is a sanitary sink in. I mean, there is a sanitary food prep and distribution area that is being built inside of this that was not part of the original design. And we can go back to what Guido was saying that this was all minor changes that were inside the building, but that was not part of the original plan. And to tell me that, oh well, that wasn't part of the original plan, Glenn and Commissioner Woodson, because well, it wasn't. It was we're going to have convenience store. Convenience store is not a food prep and distribution area like a restaurant is. We are changing the inside configuration. We have added, again, going back to the original design, we have added additional office space inside of the building. There are there are a set of minor changes that have occurred inside this building over time. We are now adding more than just a office. We are adding a food preparation and distribution area, not only for people who walk in, but now what we're saying is we're going to tie that into anybody who wants to drive up. And I I will say I think we are very much on the edge of whether this should even have been a conditional use permit requirement on this point because this is this is a bigger change in the realm of what we're adding. If we get rid if we look at it in the realm of a gas station with a car wash and with vacuums and with a convenience store at a at a master facility level, sure it's a small component. If you take it and look at it as here is a building which is the convenience store of it. I am now carving out a a significant portion of that building and I'm turning it into a restaurant and whether it is a sit down restaurant inside whether it's somebody who comes in and walks out or whether it's somebody who drives up we are still adding a restaurant into our convenience store. That is arguably I mean it's I

understand where where we're coming from on this on a cup but I just I have a lot of challenges with us coming in at this point and saying we're going to allow that to occur. There are so many other things that we could get going back to the scope creep issue can come back. We can get a cup. Let's add some EV charging stations because that's going to provide money back to him. Let's he can go in there. Let's add let's add some food trucks on the outside in the evenings. Um there are just We're moving to a point where I think we're the intention of this was that we were building a gas station that was needed. That's what we were looking at when we went to the safety discussions on access. The the issue that and part of the real discussion we went on two years ago and and it's not fair necessarily because unless you're were commissioner at the time and half of us were and half of us weren't at this point on the commission. Part of the discussion we had at the time that allowed us to to agree to the ingress and egress directly onto to Im was we wanted to support the business of the gas station. And we understood that that cars driving all taking the roundabout way and getting up and going around to get into the the facility. And definitely at that point the the parking the ingress and egress was was more difficult at the time than it is now. It is definitely easier there. But we we created the engine entrance and egress because we realized that there are people who are driving to work in the morning and this is mainly a commuter issue in the morning. That was a lot of our discussion that need gas and they want to stop in there very quickly, get on, grab a couple gallons of gas to get to work and then get off. And that's going to be a primary business model and we didn't want to hold back that business model on the gas. So that's why we approved this and we said but and I remember one of our commissioners I mean went out there and like measured it off and the from the time from the start of the of the on-ramp back to the entrance and we came back and we discussed how

many feet it was. We had that was a large part of our discussion and that's why we got to the safety evaluation and why we said after a year we're going to allow this but this is what our concern is and so we're changing that and we we keep changing what we're building here and what I will also add into is I'm not sure how many of you have been looking in and just you can take next door and Facebook mar and groups about marina and other social sites that are promoted in the But there is a the two kind of theories running around that have been strands in discussion for the last few months have been number one hey what's going in there gas station. Number two what gas station. So I want to know what gas station is because everybody wants what gas station is it? And um because this is like magic gas depending on what it is, right? And then the third one is that what you're putting there on that corner isn't right and we made the wrong you all you all being the city being the planning commission not by name or even by planning commissioner city. Why are we putting a gas station here in the first place? Because there's that's a a really important corner. We only have a a few important corners that we can put development on and we're putting a gas station and a car wash. And wasn't there something better that we could have put there? Now, arguably yes or no. I mean, I think we all agree that the gas station is a perfect one. That's why we approved it at the time, and I think we would probably approve it again. So, I think we we kind of from a technocrat perspective understand that. But if I keep going back to the citizens of Marina and who who we are supposed to represent, we have to be able to explain to them, okay, this is what you're going to get. Now, maybe they want a restaurant. I don't The impression I get is that's probably not it. I mean, all that is is just adding another quicky thing. And I just I don't want to dwell on it too

much, but I know where Kutoo wants to just come to a resolution tonight and we can always table it. we can always go back to the conditions on it. Um, for me, I'm not going to draw any more lines outright. I just don't I don't support this right now. I'm not going to support it. We can have the friendly amendments all we want. Um, but I just think that this is this is one of the few times in my five years where I really adamantly feel it's just one step too far. And so I'll leave that and close out my comments. So, thanks chair.

Okay. Thank you, vice chair. Any other discussion before we talk about a motion? Okay, then do I have a motion to concerning the conditional use permit?

What's the motion? What can it be on the screen? Oh, can you put a motion up on the screen? Sure. Of course. Let me stop sharing. Oh, Brad, you can just put up the resolution if you want. Okay, let me find that real quick.

I I have it, Brad.

Okay. I I sense some reluctance from the commission to make a motion. So, so once again, I I do I I I do offer to the commission that I mean, we do have the ability to table this item and if the applicants amendable to it, we could do some traffic modeling and bring that back to the commission or the commission can vote on it tonight. I'm just trying to offer some solutions to the commission. So,

I'm not in favor of a of a quicky traffic modeling and I I'm not concerned about the traffic within the site. I totally agree with Vice Chair Witson that that will resolve itself. I'm not concerned about the traffic on Breakwater and I'm not really concerned about the traffic on Second Avenue, but the entrance and exit, especially the exit onto Imun where the a lot of the use of that station that that corner will be traffic from engine to stop at the convenience store, the car wash or the the fuel to fuel up.

Yeah. or now added tonight to go to a convenience window for refreshments or coffee or coffee, right? and and so that and then exiting on to engine and fighting to get into the lefthand lane

during the traffic periods of morning are are a mess. I just know it is. I I even without this corner with it's just sand and and some concrete foundation right now it's still a mess. People are still trying to jump the line between Second Avenue and Highway One. But and so this is going to be another spot of a jumping line. Anyway, Mr. Chair, I'd like to make the proposal.

Okay. Planning Commission to adopt resolution 2026 to approve a drive-thru use for a previously approved gas station, convenience store, and car wash at the northwest corner of Delmani Boulevard at Mjim Parkway subject to findings, conditions, and the determination that the proposed uses and improvements will not result in a new significant environmental impact or effects or a substantial potential increase in the severity or significant effects previously identified in EIR number 2000491167 certified for the university village specific plan second.

Do I hear a second? I second. Okay. Okay. Roll call. Vice chair. What? No. No. Commissioner R. Yes. Chair. No. Chain. Yes. Commissioner Jacobson. No.

No. Okay. Okay. What? Yeah. Where we go from here, I guess, is up to the applicant. Uh, we can certainly work with Yeah. to address some of the commission's concern and we can bring this back. It's completely up to the applicant. Right. Or also, can't the applicant file an appeal? Uh they can file an appeal to the city council, right? I didn't understand it.

Okay, let's move on. We can close this item. Is that right? Yes, that item. Yeah, that item is done. And move on toformational items. A I think we have one more, don't we? Uh we have an old emergency trees. It's anformational item. A 36 3116 Lake Drive emergency tree removal. Yeah, Ryan or I'm not sure. So, you're both right. There is one more item. And yes, it is information. Information. Actually, three more items, but information.

Is there a staff? Yes. One second. Trying to get to it. Give me a second, Brian. There we go. can't hear you. That's what he said. Yeah. Yeah. Surprises information.

It's emergency. Okay. Thank you, chair. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Brian Kim and I'm the assistant planner. Tonight I'll be presenting on the emergency tree removal at 3116 Lake Drive as the project planner alongside with our planning intern hottie. Good evening dear commissioners. Uh as Brian mentioned we we will be presenting emergency removal and 3116 lake drive. uh uh the the presentation will be in two section just I'm going to just take over the uh background and some information about the project.

Can you get a little closer to the microphone? Sure. Thank you.

So on February 26, 2026 applications submitted for emergency 3 proposing removed of two mon tree because of uh structural instability and declining health. uh arborist uh report submitted uh by uh I mean the certified arborist among the great gate uh and uh report actually included three hazard evaluation form. Uh next slide. Yes. Uh this is the project location, Lake View Tur Apartments located in our uh zoning R4 or multiple family residential district. We can see the location of trees 107 and 106. Uh present to Marina Municipal Code 172 040 section D. In the event of any emergency uh whereby immediate action is required because of uh danger or life to property uh any tree may be uh removed upon uh community development approval. Upon authorization of such removal, the community development director or designate shall file a report with the planning commission describing the facts and circumstances constituting the emergency and said uh report shall be provided to the tree committee. Uh these two trees removed as I said just 106 and 107. This table just uh gives some information about tree

number, DBH, height and hazard rating. For tree number 106 DBH, which shows the diameter of a tree measured at 4 and 1/2 ft above the ground while standing on the high side of the tree is 37 in and the height is 65 ft. And the hazard rating is 11 out of 12. Hazard rating includes three different aspect including failure, potential, size of part and target rating which is 3 44 accordingly for tree number 106. The same for tree 107. Uh the DBH is 24.5 in and the height is 60 feet and the hazard rating is 12 10 out of 12. Uh the failure potential is three, size of part is three and target rating is four or three number 107. Now I'm going to hand it over to Brian. He will get you over from the part of the presentation. So, as discussed, both trees had a structural instability and declining health that could have led to failure. As shown in the picture, Cypress number 106 had a significant crack that reduced the treere's overall structural strength. Next slide, please. So targets are defined as people who can be injured, property that may be damaged or activities that could be disrupted by a tree failure. And for these trees, the targets included uh occupied residences, pedestrians, recreation, small features,

and heartscape and landscape. Additionally, the arbiters reported that no birds were nesting on site within 300 ft at the time of assessment. Next slide please. So if you see the picture, the X's show the removal of the two trees and the circle show the replacement trees. So the replacement ratio was a 2:1 ratio. This is our standard um tree removal ratio and the replacement trees were oak trees. So leading to a total of four trees planted. Next slide, please. Oh,

and here's another picture of showing the four trees. Uh, next slide. And that concludes our presentation. So, so as Brian mentioned, the zoning code has this unique that I am my Can I borrow yours? Sorry. uh has this unique provision that if I remove an emergency tree, I then have to file a report with the commission just to tell the body this is what we did. So that's basically what we're doing. It also gave an opportunity for our intern to present the planning commission. So always trying to give our interns opportunity to do stuff. So yeah, that's just it's just really anformational. There's really no action per se by the planning commission just more trying to follow the municipal code. So

yeah and we will also be reporting to the tree committee in a future meeting as well.

Thank you. Thank you Steph for the presentation. Uh I have just one comment. I from the package I I didn't realize that this was an exposto already done deal. I I I understand totally understand that that Guido has the authority to approve an emergency tree removal and it doesn't have to go through the committee, the tree committee or the planning commission to do that job.

That's correct.

Yeah. But what I I didn't know was why it got to say the it didn't go I don't think it's been this report hasn't gone to the tree committee at all to my knowledge. You can correct me. It has not because you guys were the first body that we could meet with after it happened and I thought it'd probably be prudent to tell the commission as soon as possible and not wait another wait till after the tree committee. So, but yeah, we're definitely going to report out the tree committee. I made a trip to the site to see the trees and make a judgment in my own mind that yep, it was an emergency because just the report and the the pictures. It's a, you know, didn't do enough justice to say we got to cut down, you know, a 34 inch chunk of tree and a 24 inch chunk of tree, you know, so quick. But without but so I made a trip out and I couldn't find the trees.

Me too. I I absolutely they were gone. I thought well I can't I'm pretty good about reading drawings and reading pictures. I can do it. But I didn't do this one. And then I finally said they cut the trees down. I found the sawdust. And you didn't get to hug them.

I didn't get to hug them. And I did find the four little bitty oak trees that replace these monsters. And I I had a couple of questions on why they didn't replace the two Cyprus with two more Cyprus. Uh there was plenty of open space in the land and but they found these, you know, back six or seven feet from the back fence. a empty spot and put the four little babies in. But anyway, I was a little disappointed that they that they cut them down before anyone had a chance other than staff to take a look at it. And I know that it's not a requirement, but I thought it could have been it. When did they get cut down? Does anyone know? Like an approximate date? middle of the night.

Yeah.

Yeah. And but this this doesn't happen. I mean, in the four years I've been here, I think I've done this maybe once a year. Once a year. Yeah. One other. So, it's we do take removal of trees very seriously. And you can ask the planners. I grilled them about, you know, is this really necessary? And have we read the arburous report? I mean, we don't just willy-nilly do. So,

yeah. And to add on, um, just to answer some of your questions, there are no requirements on keeping the replacement tree the same. We do recommend the recommended tree list that the tree committee provided and we provide that and the uh applicant actually chose oak trees from that list. So um getting that recommended tree list is I think an important part and keeping the trees we want to see in our city and the removal happened sometime in March couple weeks after um the application was submitted. And the reason why um the director is able to do this is because we don't want to wait too long in cases where there is a crack and removal must be made urgently. So um yeah hope that answers your question chair. you know is ordinarily the the process to for an emergency tree removal. I can understand that it is was an emergency that if these trees especially leaning they were not very far maybe less than 10 ft from 10 or 12 feet from a twostory uh apartment residence and with 60 and 65 feet tall and a a damaged tree that had whenever the damage was the the the the bark had grown into it. So it wasn't recent damage. It was existing for quite a while. So it could have happened any day or any week or any month or even any year that it could have failure. So it should have

come down but uh and this is this is the middle of April and it came out probably the middle of March or so 30 days ago maybe that it we didn't have a meeting April 12th. So that's why I'm letting you guys know now. Yeah. And the reason why we came to planning commission first is because we want to be transparent with the removal. We don't want this to get swept through under the rug and wait till present tree committee first before letting you guys know. So, we chose to present at the first available. Um,

it would be nice if you'd have said in in subject to I mean in in accordance with the state of the emergency, we've already released the trees for removal. They've been removed. Yeah. Then I wouldn't have gone out there and looked for them. Yeah. And just to assure you um we take these removals very seriously. We require all the similar tree committee and the planning committee. Yeah. So we require all the same requirements arburous report hazard ratings and all the same requirements. Okay. That's all I had. Any other I looked for the twins to do it and I couldn't find them.

I found the I could keep that around. Yeah. 14 minutes. I just want us to talk for 14 more minutes and get to 10 o'clock. We haven't done a 4-hour meeting in years.

All right. Well, I'll make this quick. So, we got our pro housing designation. I haven't shared with the commission. We actually got this letter March 2nd, but at the top of the letter, it says, "Oh, there's some media embargo. Don't publicize it too much." and I've been bugging the state and I said, you know, at some point I have to tell the commission. So, it's in your packet. At some point, the state will release it so that we can make a big media blitz. But I just want I put it in the packet specifically to thank the planning commission. We've probably brought 30 some odd different housing elements stuff to the commission the last four years. And I know some of it is very esoteric, in the weeds, housing policy stuff. So, I appreciate you guys sitting through all of that. Um because we got this on March 2nd, we were able to apply for $850,000 of PIP funding, which we can use for other housing related things. I just wanted to thank the commission for volunteering your time and sitting through all the boring planning housing stuff I brought you guys. So, yeah.

How many other cities in the count in the county have the pro? Uh I think Selenus has it. That's the one off the top of my head that I know about. So, I think they were the only other ones. Yeah, just I'm just I'm just curious. And then the only other item I wanted to bring to the commission was um we have moved back the start times to 6 p.m. which seems to work for the entire commission. Does the commission want to keep it at 6 p.m. or move it up to 5:30? That's up to the commission to decide. I want to keep it at six. Six fine. Okay, sounds good.

The consensus is 65. Sounds good. That's all the staff announcements. Just 10 more minutes. 12 more minutes. 12 12 minutes. 12 minutes. I have I have jokes. I have a year's worth of jokes I give every day. So we could just do the filibuster jokes. Sure. So I mean there there was the part there was the time that I was kicked out of the city park because I was I was lining up all the critters in a row. The who? The squirrels.

I have to think about what the punch line is. I'm not from this country. I wouldn't I don't need to stay on that. So chair, you have you have to actually make it fall apart. So that's fine ladies and gentlemen. Thank you.