Board of Zoning Appeal & Regional Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'll now call this meeting of the Jefferson County Board of Zoning Appeals to order. We've got just a little bit after six. And I apologize for being tired of getting started, but uh if you uh would to join me in a word prayer. Dearly Father, we come to you thanking you for the day of life that you've blessed us with. We thank you, dear God, for the health and the ability you give us to to work and to get out and enjoy your creation today. And I just I pray, Lord, that you're pleased with how we've lived it this far. I thank you for letting us live in the county, especially Jefferson County is. And I thank you, dear God, for the government that we have in place that allows us to meet and discuss the business and the planning and the zoning of this county. And I thank you, dear God, for the citizens that take an interest, Lord. And I just pray you be with each one of us as we gather here tonight to to conduct that business. I pray you've got our words and I pray, dear God, that you would inspire our thoughts to be pleasing to you, Lord, in whatever we do. We lift our country up to you, dear God. We lift our leaders up to you from the federal to the state to the county and our cities, Lord. We just pray that you would guide them and and help them to do what's best, dear God, for all of us. We ask Lord you would forgive us where we failed you and we ask you continue to be with us throughout the night and we give you thanks and ask these things in Christ Jesus precious name.

Amen. Amen. Let's pray. Amen. Sorry. Attention. Salute. Pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Uhoh. You want to try this chair, Sue? No, that's all right. We'll just sit up here above everybody. That one's low. Huh? This one's way low over here.

Oh, is it? This one don't go down. Sorry. Sorry. Uh I see that you all have your package. So I trust you had a chance to uh to review the minutes from the earlier meeting. Do we have any additional correction? Correction. It was not unanimous. Okay.

On variance on the variance. Mark, you were the one voting against. You're out. That's good. Okay. You make note of that. Okay. Any other corrections or additions? Being none, uh, and including the correction on the motion by Mr. Springfield and second, the varants was approved unanimously. That was actually one against. I entertain a motion to approve those. That's correct. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Okay. Any further discussion? All those in favor, let me know by saying I.

All those opposed. Motion passes. Mr. Chair, could I make a remark, please? Yes. I want to thank Stephanie Gome for the excellent job she's doing as secretary of this committee. Everything I've asked, all the questions I've asked, she's immediately and properly answered. So, I want to congratulate her for doing a great job. Bob, I I would agree with you entire and she she keeps me on my toes as well as she'll reach out several times throughout the month to discuss some things we got going on. I appreciate the job you're doing Tuesday. Thank you. You're very welcome.

Okay. Uh moving on, citizens input. We have none for the board of zone appeals uh tonight. So, uh we'll ease on down into item six. Barry's request to reduce the required number of parking spaces to 32 and request that the 19 of those 32 spaces be reduced from 10 foot wide to 9 foot wide for the proposed Dollar General store to be located on Highway 25E White Pine near Niner Road by JBM Investment Company Incorporated. Jason Brown, we have hello.

Uh, yep. Just as read there, we are requesting a reduction in the required number of spaces and I think I sent in a letter from our client that for this size store and actually for a larger store even they historically only require themselves 30 spaces. So, anytime we're asking for a reduction, we'd like to include that letter in in the information you all get to see. Uh, just so you'll see that it's certainly a retailer in this day and age wants all the parking they can possibly get. So, them telling me they only need 30, it's it's a realistic number for them. Realize it's differing from what the ordinance calls for. So, we're here to ask for that to be reduced. Uh, that 9 foot space is one that's it's used it's mostly used to condense and try to make a few more spaces where we need to. So we we took the outer row and the side row and made them all 9 foot spaces just to get a couple extra spaces back towards the number that you all would rather have or that the ordinance calls for. So that's what the reason for the reductions from 10 foot and those are also not that it matters but in other municipalities they allow those 9 foot spaces and they work quite long. So

and 13 of those spaces will be staying 10 ft 10 foot by 20 foot. And those are along the front door. The most commonly used ones and the most often used ones are still at the front door and those are still 10 by 20. But looking at this, it caused some curiosity in me and I brought the tape measures. I couldn't I've stopped at a handful of parking lots coming through. We've got from 8 and 1/2 to 9 or 10 and 12. I'll just tell you that people in the field sometimes cheat a little bit when they're measuring out and striping. So I don't know who would do that. I've heard that stuff. But yeah, if they're in a tight spot and they've got, you know, one extra foot would give an extra space. A lot of times they'll divide that up by that row and make an extra space. So actually about one handicap is nine foot, but that was interesting to me. So

you get into some spaces in Knoxville and you'll find something that you couldn't park your bicycle in. So that's just the way it in closer communities it's more important. I realize in the county it's not quite as important, but when we build a dollar generally it's kind of like its own little spot. There's not any room to move around, not a lot of room on the site because it's just property. But at any rate, we understand it's it's a deviation. So, we're we're here to formally ask for permission. Do we have any questions on this? being what's the favor?

Are you asking for a motion? Yeah, I will I will make that motion. Okay, you make a motion to grant the variance as requested. Okay. Do we have a second? I'll second it. Yeah. Okay. Any further discussion on that? Okay. Being none, all those in favor of approving item number six on the agenda, the various request to reduce the required number of parking spaces to 32 and at 19 of those be reduced from 10 ft to 9 ft. Let it be known by saying I. I.

All those opposed. Motion passes. Thank you. Appreciate it. Appreciate you. Item number seven, variance request on a front setback of 6 ft for a new house to be constructed at Wild Parish Shores lot 37 of Big Oak Drive Dandridge by Dennis and Nicole Gray. That one has actually that was the one it was pulled due to when they got the survey out they can meet their setback. So they do not need a sixoot variance. Oh, we got somebody here. Yeah. Oh, your we Oh, well, your surveyor told me you didn't need a variance. November.

Okay, then I'm confused. I didn't Okay, I didn't know. So, I don't have a survey showing your what you're requesting. No, because he told me you didn't need it. No, I did not know. I talked to him last week. Do you have the survey? No. No, I don't have it. Well, I'll have to contact the surveyor. Okay. Surveyor said we didn't

The surveyor told me you weren't you weren't you didn't need it because technically we did, but the way that you placed it It's on the like right on the line of the neighbor's property line and we won't be able to have a backyard cuz you know how the lot goes. So there's no way to have even a backyard for my four-year-old. Okay. But you're still going to be just asking for the 60. Just the 60. And and when my builder builds it may be less than that. Whatever he could we're going to get as little as possible on there. And he's scheduled to start on the 1st on the first of October.

I didn't have any I mean nobody had told me otherwise when I talked to him didn't tell me either. Yeah. I mean I paid for it without actually seeing it. U but we've granted other furniture request in Wildfire Shores. I know that to be a fact. We still need to see it. I have pictures of the property and the house and everything.

I'm so sorry. So, okay. Typically the variance requests that we look at are usually more than six feet in nature with something like this. usually double or more on all those. And madam planner, I'll ask you and ask Stephanie as well if we uh would it be parliamentary correct to approve this with her bringing the drawings in to you and you taking a look at them for no more than six feet. That's I know it's putting a lot maybe her and Sue look at them. I hate to hold him up, but on the first and

this is just my request. He put us right on the property line when he pinned it. He was like, "You will be right on the the 10 foot property line." So, I would have 10 feet and I wouldn't be able to put a playground. I wouldn't be able I mean, nothing for her. But this will give you 16 ft. It'll give me 16 feet. So, I'm not impeding on his property, which I'm not I don't need a front yard for my four-year-old. I need a backyard for her. So, and I'm I'm not sure. Do you even have a drawing that No, I didn't because I called to get it a need for it and he did. He told me that it wasn't needed. So, I guess I'm sorry. That's my I mean I only went by what I was told. So, this Can you Can you state this a front yard setback?

So, yes, ma'am. And what is the normal setback? 30 30. And so you're wanting to go just six feet forward on one side. And we also it's supposed to be 10 feet on the other sides, but we do have 30 feet on both sides because there's a box or something. I'm not sure why they did it, but there's 30 ft on all the sides. 24 ft on the front and it's a corner lot and it goes like this. So it's uh that would be the only place I could do it in order to even have a backyard because it's such a Can we see that please?

Yes. So when you pass we would never let also I don't think that he took into account that there's a huge oak tree on the property that's like 300 years old and I'm trying to not cut that down which because it's She says that's what the name is. Big old drive. So, I mean, I would cut it down if I need my house, but everybody loves the tree.

No, they'll not like me. Yeah, she was doing 24 probably in the back. She wouldn't like I know it, ma'am. Show me. Of course, the boat docks there. Correct. Correct. On the back. So, you would be moving forward six feet from the Show me exactly where you want to go.

So, the house will be um this will be the front which would be right here this way. And then that's the only way that it can go on. And then there's going to be so there's a huge tree here as you can see. So the only way to not be on the tree is to move forward six feet and to not be on his line. They they put it so it's like right there on his line. But then that would be

just this way. Six feet. just to not be right on him, not shut the tree down, not be on the road over there. Does he have the survey? Yes, I' I've done everything I was supposed to do. I thought and the survey shows the variance on it. Correct. Yes.

Does everybody understand this where we're at? And Stephanie, I don't I know we can't approve anything with having out having that in here. So, anything we do could be contingent upon that being accurate. But if we approve it contingent upon you getting that survey to her and her seeing that it's the way it is, it's contingent upon that accuracy. We could do this and not hold her up on getting started for another month of the build this time of year. That being said, do we have any other questions for I used to eat lunch under your tree in the front yard.

And I love it. It's a great tree. It's giving me so many issues though with this build. It's like Yeah, I know exactly what you need. Beautiful lot there though on the corner. What's the board? If there's no questions, I'll make that motion, Mr. Chairman. Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second it. Okay, everybody knows what they're voting on. Approving a sixoot variance on the back property line. Right. Sliding it forward contingent upon the survey being exactly the way it's supposed to be. Okay, everybody good? Any questions? All those in favor of approving the variance, letting the know saying I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. Thank you so much. Thank you. Just be sure as you can get that.

That will be the bane of her existence until she has it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Item eight on the agenda board zone appeals. Front set back variance of 20 feet on property at 107 Vista Seville Peninsula lot number 53 by Christopher and Bonita. [Applause] Good luck with that.

Pignitario Allen Edmonson is the builder. Is anyone here to represent them? First, you've got to clarify if my pronunciation is even closer. It is Chris and Betatina Pignitaro. It is very interesting. I am Alan Evansson. I'm the builder. Okay.

Um, we are requesting a variance of 20 ft on the zone zoning. Um, we are getting ready to build and when we were getting ready to build, we noticed the property line does not match up with where the road is. So, uh, property line is in from the road. Going another 30 ft from that would put us, uh, well back on a pretty, uh, decent slope. That would make, uh, financial hardship on them. We're asking for a 20ft variance. Uh, if we're granted the variance, we will still be uh, depending on what point of the house you're looking at, we'll still be 20 to 20 feet 20 to 25 feet off the road. and it will let us um build on more of a flat area uh for structural reasons, make it a little bit stronger. Um we know there are other houses in the subdivision that have also granted been granted variances uh for basically the same reasons. Um so we just uh we submitted the variance request to ask for that permission.

Okay. So, the front property line pins are set back on the inside of the utility easement. Yes.

Okay. It looks like the utility ement varies from one side to the other according to the survey. Gets a little wider as you get to the west side. Yeah. And that if you keep going up Mont Vista, it ends in a culde-sac. So, that's basically all of the road right there. There shouldn't be a whole lot of other houses that are up there or anything like that. Uh this is also it's a subdivision with lake access lake views. And unfortunately if we closer to the front of the lot they're looking for the view. So Stephanie and that is also it's not Do we have any questions? Seeing none, what's the pleasure of the board?

I'll make a motion we go to parents. Okay, we have proper motion. We have a second. I'll second. Couple seconds on that. Tom, we got it. One second. Any further discussion? Being none, all in favor of granting the 20 foot variance, please let me know by saying I. No. All those opposing appeals. Do I have a motion? We journ. Have a motion. Second. Second.

All those in favor of journal say I. I. Mean journ. At this time we'll call together the meeting of the Jefferson County Planning Commission. And again, you receive your package. I see. Randy, I'll have yours as well. I trust that you had a chance to look at the minutes and review those. We have any additions or corrections? Make a motion to approve. We have a motion to approve the minutes. We have a second. Second. Have a second. Any discussion on that? Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.

I'm going to abstain from this vote in my absence from that meeting. Appreciate that offer. Any further discussion? Being none, all those in favor of approving the minutes let saying I. I.

All those opposed. Those are passed. Approved. Next is citizens input. I know I have it somewhere. Uh, Mary and Matt Marian short. Sorry. Um, Marian Knight, 440 West Main Street, Dandridge. I'm speaking about the proposed reszoning of two parcels from A1 to C2 on Highway 139. I'm not taking a stand for or against yet. More information is necessary to make that judgment. The parcels are located next to Lakeway Drive between two homes and directly across the street from the entrance to the Southwind subdivision. Shady Grove Utility District is diagonally across the street. The closest business is a Marathon gas station 3/10en of a mile away. There's also a garage on Flora Road, but the area is primarily residential and farmland. So, I'm asking you to find out what specific use is proposed for these lots before you decide decide that reszoning to C2 is a good idea. A1 has been described by some as Jefferson County's most liberal zone. So, the desired use must be something specific to C2. I'm giving you a copy of my zoning cheat sheet as it's a little less cumbersome than the zoning resolutions. It's also

an easy way to see what uses are unique to C2. It is accurate as of April 2024. Thank you. There you go. There's one for everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Nat. You're

welcome. [Applause] That uh concludes the citizens input for tonight. We'll be moving on to new business and the first item a reszoning request from A1 to C2 property on Highway 139 Dandridge. Freddy Brassfield property tracks four and five. Someone here to represent that.

Yes. If you would please step to the public.

Good evening.

Good evening. My husband and I put in this request. Um, and I can appreciate Miss Knight's concern wanted to understand the details. Um, we are not, we're new to this, so if we did not submit for the right reasoning request, please please guide us. Um we are looking to hopefully have those two parcels um utilized to have allow people to store moderats jet skis etc. We are not planning on paving that. We are planning if approved we would put down gravel rather than asphalt or pavement. Um it's it's about less than a mile from the Shady Grove boat launch which which why we were thinking it would be a good opportunity after speaking with some of our friends who expressed some frustration with not having anywhere to to house their their boats or jet skis. Um, Miss Knight, I believe, called out the nearest businesses to that would be, of course, the Marathon gas station, Southern Curls, U-Haul, and Car Wash. Um, but our primary goal was to give citizens someplace to to house their watercraft to be able to be close to that ramp, you know, with easy access. We we also live in the uh villain fish uh community which is next to Golden Shores which is just down the road from that area as well. So we would be utilizing it for our watercraft as well as a lot of our neighbors that have asked about wanting something closer to store their vehicles, their um uh watercrafts and uh and boats because it does take up a lot of their uh front yards and whatnot. So we were hoping to be able to provide a service for our community as well. And so I'm not sure if that is requires a C2 or something else, but that is the nature of our request.

May I answer any questions? Do we have any questions? You're going to be storing watercraft like float bolts and things like that. Pontoon boats. This is a commercial enterprise. Is that right? It will be. Yes. approved. We will be leasing out parking spots essentially.

Mr. Chairman,

I just wanted to make the comment that when we're looking at reszoning property, it's not so much about what you're going to do with it in particular. It's that it's anything that is allowed in that use we have to consider and that would be something you all would want to consider. It sounds like you live nearby. So, um I think if uh Miss Baldwin would read her comments before we get to that, please forgive me for interjecting, but this is not in the ghost boundary from what I've looked at and out that far.

No, it's not. And we have been trying to dig our heels in on on not doing spot zoning. I think this would uh this would definitely fall under spot zoning if we did this. And I don't know that's a road we want to travel down. I just wanted to make those two points before we went further in discussion on this. I like to hear Katherine. Absolutely.

Um I think that the points have been made really well here. Uh and also I did a um I downloaded a um aerial of

the property and the surrounding area. Um I mean it's it it's not only um there's no commercial nearby, there are a lot of homes. Uh there are formal subdivisions um and a lot of lakefront property that I think um have probably has fairly large homes on it. So you're you're once again we're looking at or uh the request is to zone an isolated uh piece of property. And uh your your goal when you're looking at commercial, especially when it's out in a rural area like this, is to establish a district. um everybody um uh or a a or a um a node of commercial development so that if it's not just one lot one use uh you have a district that offers several uh services for the area for to serve the residents and um that way when and and people really benefit from multiple commercial uses in a single core area. If you're going to get gas, you can pick up milk or do other uh activities. Um also, this is not a busy road. So, once again, um it it doesn't lend itself well to this. Um the property is surrounded by property zone either A1, agricultural, or R1. There are no commercially zoned properties in the general vicinity. in addition to develop land in the areas comprised of large single family detached homes in formerly platted subdivisions or estate homes with lake frontage. The purpose of zoning is to either protect existing land uses or group commercial businesses together to serve the needs of the residents. In addition to be successful, commercial areas thrive best in areas of commercial nodes with high traffic volumes and

utility services to meet the needs of the allowable uses specified in the zone district. The proposed zone request meets neither of these goals and objectives. Based on the lack of other commercial entities and the broad extent of quality residential structures, uh I certainly can't recommend approval. And I think uh the point is well taken that um the when you resone property, you don't look at a use that you're proposing. You look at the allowable uses in that zone district. And it's really extensive and most of them could only thrive and be successful in an area of high traffic volumes and grouped with other commercial entities. And it this request meets neither one of those tests.

So the high traffic of vehicles that are used on that road for boats and jet skis and all that that's not considered high traffic for that purpose of storing. Uh, not once again when you're looking at reszoning to a zone district um to it it's um highly unadvisable to look at your use. You could walk out tomorrow and put anything that's on this list on that piece of property and at that point the planning commission's lost control of the situation. uh there is no way for you to for the planning commission uh to lock you into that single use that doesn't exist. This is a zone district and so any uses identified in that zone district would become allowable on that tract of land.

Understood. And it would be very shortsighted for us to say, well, we don't have any problem with boat storage. That's immaterial. [Applause] Yeah, it's very well spoken. Yeah. And you know, the bottom line is it still is a very nice residential lot. So, it's not like there's uh not other gainful uses for the property under the existing zone district. Yeah. Mr. Chairman.

Yes, sir. You ready for a motion? Yeah. I have one or two thoughts I was thinking over, but neither are going to make any kind of difference in this. So, yeah. Uh, do we have any further questions for board comments? Being none, what's the pleasure of the board? I'm sorry. Go ahead. Is this a a closed door, Catherine? Can they do something to this uh condition? I mean, there's there's nothing they can do to change what you've described.

Uh, it's um this it's a zoned district. So, you know, this really does a great job to illustrate the number of uses that would be allowed. And I mean, you can look down through there and see the ones that you would strongly object to. Um, flea markets, um, you know, there there's just a whole lot of them. And uh again, a a zone district of this nature is uh not designed for an isolated lot here and there. It's um it's um it is oriented toward high traffic volumes with other like uses in the vicinity so that everybody benefits from those that commercial status.

Thank you. and definitely not saying it would not be utilized and there's no need for that area. It just doesn't fit before it's allowed there and that's that's where it lies the problem. Any further questions? Being none, what's the pleasure of the board? Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. I move to deny this request based on the lack of commercial entities in the surrounding area and the uh amount the broad amount of residential structures located adjacent to the property.

We have a proper motion. Do we have a second? Also have a second. Is there any further discussion on the motion? Anybody know what we're voting on? Okay. All those in favor of denying the reszoning request, let me know say I. I. All those opposed. Motion pass. Thank you. We appreciate your insight. Now that still goes to county. Do they know that? Uh sir. Um so the recommendation of this body is a no. But it is a recommendation.

Only the uh county commission can formally deny your request. So unless you withdraw this, it will go to the county commission as a recommendation of note from this body. And at that point, uh I think it needs a two-third majority of the entire membership of the county commission to override a recommendation of the planning commission. So unless you want to withdraw, you will proceed on.

Thank you. Next item on the agenda, uh, B, final plan approval for three lots off Muddy Creek Road, Bandage by Sharon Chester. [Applause] Miss Chester. Okay. [Applause] I'm going over some of the notes that our planner seen just is is public water available there.

No. So, it would be beyond the well, of course. Yeah. I actually have a a well on one of the properties now. Is he going to be dependent to serve all three properties? It would be if I wanted. Yeah.

Okay. And then those blocks there. U provide a signature block for county road superintendent and provide signature block for 911 authorization. Dealate on plat or reference of building setback requirements in the note section.

Oh, it is. Yeah, Mr. Chairman. I missed that. It is. It's on there. Yeah. Is this a revised one or is this the one you sit on? No, it's the one with the agenda. Yeah. Okay. I've got items two and four marked off. They're gone. Well, I mean, they're they're there, right? Um, so what is there with regard to portable water? Is there a note about it?

There's not that available. She is well searched. Um if that's the case um um you can exempt the comment but they need to place a note on the plat that well water is available and that uh they will be dedicated and uh rights of to utilize it. So that should be added. You can't just not um address portable water to the structure and we've already I mean there's already been tanks more tanks added so it'll be more reserved water and stuff and and the water supplies really good. Okay. You could years ago.

I would recommend approving it on the condition that her surveyor place a note on the plat of the availability of the uh well water.

Oh, and I put that in the comments. The wellwater services proposed Okay. So, we need the signature from the county road superintendent. Get Joseph to come there and have that block. And then um reference on the setback requirements in the note section. Those are not there.

It just says building setbacks are subject to current zoning. So it it should note what they state them. Yeah. State them. I think it's a correction made. Yeah. The rest of it is pretty profound. Um, one thing is that you got an overhead power line and it's also kind of bicts a lot. Uh, depending on the voltage of that power line, you got a definite setback from it. In the event that it ever falls, it doesn't fall anywhere close to a house. And the distance is based on voltage.

I think they'll see the possibility two voltages. One of them be 30 ft set back on here. Is that a 60 ft easement or is that 30? 30 ft. 30 ft from center line. Mhm. Okay. TD is 50. Okay. Transmission lines. Yeah. Yeah. Mark Chambers. Absolutely. Mark, what are not shown? 2.5. Yeah, we'll have to see. So, those little boxes aren't it. I I don't know if that is or not. It doesn't show the percentages there. Oh, wow. That's true. The box that is on there is actually an own barn. Okay.

Well, then what you're referring to is that be shown with a box showing a suitable building site on each property. Okay. And stuff. Those are some corrections they made. And Stephanie can work with you on that on getting those. Have you looked at this? Has anybody Stephanie, have you seen it? And she's got Did he know about the rest of the original? This is the the one with all the signatures on it. So you already have that? Yeah. Well, it doesn't I don't know if that's is the road superintendent on there.

Um lines, street names, um certificate of accuracy. I'm not really sure. If I have Did you say you have electric on there?

Excuse So one whale is supposed to provide the water for three homes possibly. Four four.

I mean I know we've had a property since I was seven. And my dad would like have sprinklers on all summer long. It's never went dry. There is a actually an old deep well too that you know one with the bucket and she said she had signatures on there for So here it is. Bri Brian pardon me. You want to look at this one please. [Applause] I think it's the bottom one. If that well should go dry. Are y'all responsible of digging it deeper and finding the water?

I don't know. I mean, that's not something that I mean cuz I didn't know that that was something that I had to do. I mean, because I own a property in New Market that I bought and we were going to build a house and we were responsible for building our own well and stuff. So, I wasn't sure. I mean, it's not a subdivision. It was a It was a farm. It is a subdivision. By state law, this is a subdivision. So, u you're But you're creating three new buildable lots. And the role of the planning commission is to ensure that when you sell them, whoever buys it, subsequent title holders,

it will be a turnkey job. They can walk in and pull a building permit on the day it's recorded. And I if the services are not present then uh this body has failed to um ensure that that lot is buildable. Uh and the question regarding um um wellwater is um you're the only folks I've seen that don't have a requirement or a disclaimer that um you won't take responsibility. you put the property owner or you put someone on notice that you are not certifying the quality of the cost or the volume of a well. Um we would need to amend your subdivision regulations to do that though. But it does speak to um the initial submitt water at all. That's why I made the comment of which one is it? Um and if the let's say where is the well is it on one two or three?

Um one one um so if the amount of the water is sufficient a note has to go on here that lots two and three are party to that well and have legal access to it. Uh which she's said that would she would do. I I don't know if it's on there at this point. No, it's not. But the whale that you have, do you know any information on that whale itself? The depth, the flow, the

I know. I could try to find out. Like I said, we've had this property since I was seven. So, was the water uh sufficient for lot one for the existing house there? Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like I said, we've never had a problem at all. Never had a problem with water. I don't know anybody in the area. I mean, my father-in-law, my two aunts, and then I guess Michael Henderson that works here, lives at the next house. Bill Chester, which is my great-grandfather, lives in the next house. None of us have ever had any issues with water. So,

do they have individual wells themselves or do they share? Um the first two houses shared the my father-in-law and his sister. Um we my aunt lives in the next house. We actually lived in front of her. We shared a well for years and then I think the other two are on their own well. Okay. So how many folks do you have sharing the existing well right now? There's just one person. Just one person on it right now. Yeah. And where is that house located in relation to lot one? Um it says it's cover common property. That was my dad. Yeah. Okay. So it sits over on that piece there.

So that one whale would have the potential of serving four lots then unless they dug their own well. Oh yeah. Offsite. I mean and we had discussed that giving everybody water rights just so they wouldn't have to dig the well. Right. Tom would Tom Tom have to sign off on something like that if there's enough volume for four. It made me te it. Yeah, I'm not certain Tom would touch test touch test touch test touch test touch test touch test touch test touch test touch test touch test touch the flow. He would just deal with waste water and stuff on the thing.

Four lots is a it's a lot on the way. That's a lot. Especially if you don't know what's going to be built on them. True. But well, potentially lot one or lot two will go with the common property. He's wanting to buy at least one lot. So with and he won't build on it, I'm sure. And and that's once again, that's irrelevant. You're creating three buildable new buildable lots. What is the what how much what's the acreage of the balance of this the original lot? Um it was I think 27 acres. So it's over five. Yeah.

This whole lot seven and a three. The the three. Okay. But the remaining lot is over five. Yes. And then the adjoining lot here belongs to that too where it's Wayne Collins. That's my brother. And he's got a little over five acres. And then my sister had behind the pond which was 10 acres. Yeah. And just a common sense thing on this, if you have to dig your own well and you purchase a property knowing that is a a possibility, odds are if you've got a good active well that close, you may hit the same reservoir, but you'll hit water. That's we had to dig well before and we knew it going into it.

Mr. chairman. Yes, sir. Um, so it I believe Miss Baldwin's advice was it should be noted on each lot that doesn't have access to public water, right? Yeah. None of them have access to public water. Yeah. And that should be noted on the should be noted on the

on the Yeah. something that binds um the the loca the owner of the location of the well that the three new lots being created have been given legal rights to use that water. Now, if they don't um let's say the water is determined to be insufficient and um then they may have to you're right, they may have to dig a well. Um the um other jurisdictions that I deal with,

they're they have a pat note that they say that the planning commission takes no uh legal resp. is basically indemnifying the planning commission that while this is a buildable lot, you're not taking responsibility for the uh adequate water source. Uh another point, Mr. Chairman, uh the lack of having the uh percentages with the buildable sites on each lot. Uh my preference would be for this to come back to us after it is uh fixed. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to know more as well. Why are they just building one well for three locks? Why do they build three wells?

I mean, I know the neighbors, by the way. I know I know Gary Jones is your neighbor. They're not They're not building any. They have one existing well. Okay. It's already in service. Okay. Looking to provide and it could very well provide enough of those three and five more just like, you know, that's a possibility. We we don't know that information. And Miss Bowwin is just and he it would require us require us to change the subdivision rigs and note that we're not reliable responsible for guaranteeing that there's water access here of some sort. That's why I just suggested that a note go on stating that the three new lots have water rights to the existing well.

Ma'am, is it going to put you in a bind to to get things that we need put on this? addressed. No, no, no, no. Just stating that there is access to water through that well. No. We had planned on when we had the demo of having and I could have that. We could have the have that each lot needs to have and Stephanie can give you those percentages and stuff needs to have a a place indicated on here where it's a suitable building size. So, would this be something the surveyor would do?

He he would add that to it as well. We need to get the uh county road superintendent Joe Hill. We need to get that signature block on here for the county highway department and stuff. And then we need to see the setbacks, you know, what they're supposed to be for this. And that's stuff that Stephanie can give you. Work with her. She'll get you everything you need to make this right. And we're not going to hold you up if it's next month before this gets approved. Okay. Does anybody have any further questions? Seeing none, what's the board? Mr. Chairman, I move to postpone this item until our October meeting so that corrections can be made.

We have proper motion. We have a second. We have a second. Any further discussion? Everybody know what they're voting on? You understand what you need to do?

I do have one question. I mean this was submitted the 1 of September and we had got a email stating that everything was good but that I mean that was just um I guess the survey had brought it in and I was I just didn't know that there were those issues. Um it says uh the maps look good just need to come to the plan commission meeting for the final plat approval of the next meeting and gave the deadlines to we had submitted them and this was dated September let's see August 13th I think may I ask who sent the email

um Susan Rustin maybe Stephanie or Stephanie I'm Sorry, Stephanie Rustin. Okay. Cuz we had submitted everything. I mean, I did the signatures and stuff. I did not know I needed until Friday. I got all this yesterday. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We'll we'll need those things put in place. Okay.

And we do have a motion in a second. Any other discussion? Being none, what's the pleasure? On a motion to postpone this the October meeting, giving her time to get the uh requirements on the PL that we need. All those in favor say I.

I. If you would get with her, let her share with you exactly what needs to be on there and how it needs to be. Just get that person, you should be good to go. Next item is site plan review for a new dollar general. to be located on Highway 25E, White Pine Road by B 5 by JBM Investment Company Incorporated.

What? I'm sorry. Item C, you just went over item C. Item C, we approved last. We approved it. Yeah. The reason I had to put them on is because the way our deadline was for newspaper to make sure that if something happened at last month's meeting, I had to go ahead and put it on this month's meeting. So, it would have the number of days in the paper and we wouldn't have to postpone two months. Does everybody understand? So, C and D, it's already approved. We're done. D is done.

Now, with the E discuss, pardon D, pardon me. Resolution 2024-11 amending the zoning resol resolution of Jefferson County, Tennessee regarding a new C3 zone wholesale and warehouse commercial district presented by Offer Brooks. A this come up last month, but we decided to postpone it until you were here.

I saw that and I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. Um, I believe there was discussion about consulting with various groups in the county to get maybe a little further direction so that we're not we don't put a bunch of work into this and and watch you get shot down. So, with that, um, we've talked about various groups. I think Mr. Bails had mentioned public service committee, um, Farm Bureau. If you know anybody over there, Mr. Chairman, that might be an appropriate group to discuss with. If you have a connection that is if not I've got one. Yes sir. Uh so with that I would move to table this item until those uh meetings can be had and those discussions can be had and then that come back to this body.

I do know there are some conversations taking place trying to get some folks lined up for a meeting. I know uh Miss Baker reached out. I think she'd be involved in some of the the preliminary conversations and she's going to be involved long range planning committee that is not in existence right now. It's dormant. Dormant. Yeah, that's a better way to put it. Public service would be a good thing to get involved. So, uh you make that form a motion? Yes, sir. I move to uh postpone item D uh until uh various community groups can get back to us on that item.

We have proper motion. We have a second. I'll second. Any further discussion? Being none, all over. All in favor of pro postponing. Item D, let it be known by saying I.

All opposes item E. I've been trying to get there. discussion to confirm that all plat survey reviews and approvals must be done by regional planning commission if the regional planning commission should decide in the future to authorize reviews only on approvals by a non-planning commission staff member. This can only be done by the following Tennessee code presented by Bob. Speaking to this, of course, we voted on that uh last meeting a couple weeks ago. Our lawyer is county lawyer is looking at it to make sure everything is in compliance with the motion and the vote that's taken and if that's good it will move forward to county commission for approval at that point in time. So

I don't think I think we get to legislative authority this is just plan we get the governor on rules we get the governor know but we were checking with him to make sure that everything was in line but I don't think we need county commission approval. I think it requires it from what the memorandum we were given it was required but but you have different information on that. Um actually the county commissioner has no authority over subreg and this is signing a plat so no okay I will tell Mr. Grenon that have that conversation with because he had listed it in the memorandum and then in discussion he brought it up again. Yeah. That it would need to go. So he's under the the uh that assumption from somewhere that needs he's your county attorney.

But yeah, and that's why I defer to his opinion, but um like when you do a subre amendment, Yes. Um it does not go to the county commission. It is a best practices uh best engineering practices. So, uh, by state law, um, zoning goes to the county commission and you make a recommendation for subdivision regulations. It rests solely with this body. So, if you're authorizing someone to sign a subdivision plat, I think it would follow it does not go to them, but that would be um up to him, right?

That's the update I had on that. So, Is there any other business? Any other business? Oh, sorry. Um, I just wanted to um kind of explain something or my methodology on some of the comments that I make because I've uh it's new and uh new to you guys. Um and I I think that um some of it some of it um so the philosophical issue behind subdivisions is that this body and it's less than five acres that's the threshold for if anything is being created a lot line is being created eliminated or moved by state law that is a subdivision. Um so the the 5 acre uh threshold applies um and and that authority rests totally with this body. So but your charge is to create only buildable lots. So if you got a lot being created less than 5 acres that lot has to be buildable when recorded. Um the uh the purpose is that um it can be you know look once again it's recorded the next day someone should be able to walk in and pull a building permit and if they can't then we have not done our job. Uh one of the things about all the signature blocks is a formal way to notify other people in the county that you've taken an action or you're taking an action. Uh if it's uh the electric uh utility, you're notified like right here. Um here's three lots. Um when this is recorded, they're supposed to be able to walk in and pull

a building permit.

Where is the electric line? How is it going to Well, I'm I'm just talking theoretically. Where is the electric line? So, by by requiring the signature of the electric utility on here, you're notifying them that they need to take this into account of how they're going to service these three lots. Uh same thing for sewer or septic. You're notifying the utility district that you're creating three lots and by their signature, you just notified them. Um if there is an issue with let's say um there's not capacity in the sewer line and they can't serve the lot, they won't sign it or they'll say go back and get uh an authorization for a septic system. So this is all these signature blocks. It's a it's uh you're doing this to formally notify utility districts, 911, uh etc., etc., all the all the signature blocks that are on here. That's the legal mechanism to notify them that they're going to be required to take an action. Uh let's say this was on sewer and a sewer line has to be extended, more of a formal subdivision. Somebody's doing 20 lots. um they have to design that sewer line. It's the lot is buildability is dependent on that sewer. Uh your zoning is dependent on sewer. And so once again, uh we're dependent on your utility district to acknowledge that they can serve that that property. If it requires utilities to be extended, your role is to get uh engineering design for that. If you're going to require the lots or allow the lots to be created,

then that's when we get into the business of holding forms of shy to ensure that. Um when this lady says, um you know, I've got a uh there's a well down here. We're going to give them access to it. Um, it is that portable water. Now, as I was saying, other folks have a disclaimer because one thing that's outstanding about water is if someone has to dig a well, you don't know what the cost of that well is, what the depth of it's going to be. Is it going to be portable water? meaning that there's not something in the water that you know it's uh got a lot of iron, got a lot of um um sulfur is a big one. Um and um also the volume and pressure.

Have you ever seen a case where planning commission has not had that statement on there and they've been held liable for water not being accessible? I personally have not, but um as I said uh there's a disclaimer that um other um counties use and I can tell you um disclaimer just to cover us. Yeah, it's just just a statement because if it if it if it's buildable, it has to have water. So, we're back to what have you approved to make sure that um you've covered

the planning commission's liability?

It's not going to do me or well, you can get it. It's $60,000. Well, the lot only cost me 25. At what point does it become um uh not viable to actually dig the well? So this is the standard uh thing. Tracks one through five shown here on are not serviced by public water utility. Individual water service from a private well is the full responsibility of the purchasing parties or parties building any improvements. The local water utility or the in this case it's Clayurn County. The Clayurn County Planning Commission make no warrantes as to the quality or adequacy of subsurface water available. Um,

yeah. I just wonder with that being there, was that a result of a a conflict they had or was that just foresight of trying to keep something like that from arising? I I think it's um just the fact that it's there and that that's a standard tells me that at some point Yeah. somebody's gotten in trouble for it. Yeah. And also the um the disclaimer that um you don't know you're not you're not ascertaining what the cost is. Absolutely.

Or if it's adequate or if they're going to have to go, you know, next door and get water. um in this situation. So there's already one house here and there's three other can can that well support four water sources and and think of it this way. Your daughter goes in here and buys this lot and she's told you can use this water but at this point there's three other houses. That's the last house and the wells tapped out. So at that point they're going to have to dig one. And you said that, you know, in different areas it's common to be in Wales. How much is that going to cost? How deep are you going to have to go? You can't tell them. It's an unknown.

Absolutely. So if you're not uh have a requirement that portable b water be provided everywhere then um you're also in in relation to you're using a plaque to convey information to people you're also conveying information to subsequent title holders. And a lot of times when you're looking at new lots you're looking at young couples buying a lot building a house. And if it's um you know once again the reason planning commissions exist is to ensure uh that someone buying something is getting what they're supposed to be they're supposed to be.

And I think that's why so many of the things we have in place are in place. And again she had she had discussed the particular one we had tonight about this that that was going to be on the deeds about the well about the water and stuff being there. That was that was covered. It just wasn't on the plat that we had put on. Right. But now I want to be clear on that. Sorry. Um, one one thing I'd like to say to that is that I'm very very cautious that we're talking about this class. Actually, the one she had, the big one.

Well, but but she walked in with it. I hadn't seen it. You hadn't seen it. So the conversation is on on if you allow somebody to walk in and start saying we've done this, we've done that. We've got one piece of paper, we've got one set of comments, there's a different piece of paper and all of a sudden that discussion and your approval. I think the only thing that that had different from this was the signature blocks filled in.

I understand that. But um I'm just I that's some of the things that I I I recommend or do. I felt like I needed to explain them. So I'm not trying to be, you know, a pain or anything. Uh I'm I have learned the hard way. Um that when there's two different you're having a discussion about two different documents, that's that's that's not advisable. Uh now y'all could do it if you want to. I that's why I said once I don't look at plats in meetings. Uh and that's why uh because if you're going to do it for a three lot, are you going to do it for a 20 lot?

And at that point, it gets dicey and you're starting to pick a choose when you do it and when you don't do it. Um but I did want you to understand why I'm so picky about the signature blocks. And you guys didn't have your surveyors doing that. the guy came in here last year, last month, and every signature blocked reference Knox County. Um he, you know, these people aren't doing a good job for you. And um if if they understand that that's expected now, um I think you'll get more quality and you'll get less issues, your meetings will go faster. But the reason your uh your subreg specify the signature blocks, you're using this plat to convey information that will protect your $7 buying a lot of property.

I understand that. I want to make a comment to this. We are we're changing things are improving to a degree and there is need for improvement. But in these conversations, I do not want it to look as that if everything that this county has done to this point has been wrong or been not saying that

cuz there's a lot of quality went on in this county to date. We're just looking at making it better. And I appreciate you sharing about the way it's improved. We're Jefferson County, which is definitely not Danger County, where anything goes still to do with property rights, but we're not a Knox County or an Oakidge or a Franklin, you know, we're not those type places yet, and I'm not sure we really want to be those. So, we've got to be careful. Exactly. So, I just want to come back in and say that again that there's been a lot of good take place up in now. We're just trying to make things a little bit better. That's my opinion.

Yeah. And I I just wanted you to think that I'm not understand that I'm not just trying to make it hard for your surveyors. There's a method to my madness. I would love and I don't know how we could orchestrate something like this, but I would love to reach out to our surveyors

and love to secure an hour of your time and let them come to a place that's designated by you and have a meeting and let's just meet up there. I'd be more willing to come and let's let's have that conversation. That way we don't continually have this on business meeting. It's it's conveyed to them what's expected. They know coming into it what they need to do and it'll make that process a whole lot smoother. Take an hour or two to do it one day and then everything is ready when we get here. Mr. Stephanie, I don't know if could you put together a list for us of the surveyor we deal with on a pretty much regular basis, contact information, and we look at Katherine schedule and try to get something like that set up before we can

have a meeting. What y'all think about that? Does that need to be in the form of motion? I don't believe it does. Now, I will say you you you've adopted a set of subdivision and we're going to hand out copies of those at the meeting. Maybe you should make a bunch of copies and when the surveyors come just give them one because you've got it's not only in article two of your subdivision regulations. There's like four or five checklists in the back, right, for each step of this that literally you you can, you know, make a copy of it. Go did I did that, I did that, I did that, and I did that. And even the wording of the signature blocks is in there. If somebody's putting Knox County on there

and he made mistakes, I mean, it may have been gouged directly at you. I'm not sure. But no, I they would they don't know me. it. But but the other thing is, you know, you've got an individual who pays a surveyor for a job. Absolutely. Um

and if you would, some of the things that we've talked about tonight and in previous meetings that you think could be beneficial that if we amended subdivision rigs and included those, we can have that conversation as well if you put those together in a list. Well, and we're well, we're we're talking about amending your zoning orders to for C3 plus consideration for A1, A2, A3.

Um the um the process for amending the zoning ordinance is very different from the process for amending the subre and and you really should do one or the other. I was just using that as an example of um that when you're looking at something like a a note about a well uh is is think of what information you're trying to convey to that subsequent title holder.

Yeah. And again, a lot of times that is a young couple and they're already behind the eight-ball in terms of trying to get all their money together to do something. And something like a well is like, well, it could be, you know, dismount or it could be I think a lot of folks that deal with this stuff, that's kind of common knowledge. Young folks maybe not so much. But a lot of us know whenever we're going into that. I just I want to say this. I'm going to hush and give you an off the floor. I don't think these people are coming in here trying to circumvent the system entirely. I wonder why.

I think it's a lack of them not understanding what is required and what what we're going to start requiring even though it's been on paper that it's required up to this point and not been enforced to that degree. I think they just need to know what needs to be checked off when they come before us. And they'd be more than willing to get that done in the 30 days or the 60 days that they got before the meeting. That way they come in and it is a smooth approval of what they're trying to do. And that's why I think that meeting would help out tremendously. Austin was up first. I think you had something. And Randy, you're next. Be quick. Okay.

Uh, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to request that Miss Baldwin come back to our meeting next month with uh something for our consideration for our subregs along the lines of that um like the lack of water availability or something to protect the county. So, just something for us to consider putting into our subregs. Uh, absolutely. And I don't think we have to have that in the form of or anything. You at peace with doing that? Um I I can do that. The it it is difficult to men your subregs if you're going to open the document and have a public hearing and go through the the the full breadth of doing that. You ought to look at it and do maybe do some other things.

Uh it's like the zoning. It's really difficult to just do like we're going to stick this one paragraph in. We went through this just just a little ways back. with some of our subdivisions. So, if if us looking at this and doing this can make that smoother, I'm for let's getting that off the table and getting that done, you know, and if we need to look at other stuff down the road, we can do that. But let's don't put this off, which would help our meetings considerably. Let's go ahead and get after this and get it done if we can. Okay. If Yeah. I mean, it's a it's it's like two sentences. Yeah, absolutely. and anything else you think that may be beneficial that we can talk about and see if we want to do that. Okay. Yeah. Just just for conversation off, do you have anything else? Rest.

Okay. Thank you. Bill, I was going to say the same thing on the disclaimer. We need to do that to cover our tails. But honestly, you got the lady to come in tonight and I had four lots with one whale. And that's great if it's all family and you all get along. Those four lots aren't necessarily I don't know if there's something that we could do to curtail that or possibly I mean realistically if you bought it me and you got into it and me and Brian's family and we're saying we ain't going to do to take care of you that thing's gone. Somebody's got to have water and if they put it all on is there anything we can do to curtail that or is that just on them? Just a disclaimer I guess. You know that

disclaimer would cover us. I think that's one of the issues that is really changing the way some of the rural areas are operating in that they've always operated under, you know, I know these people, their family, they're this and it's not like that anymore. And the folks who come who are coming in, they're coming from states that have heavy regulations and to be honest, they're leaving because they want less. But then they walk in and said, "I want I want I wanted less. I didn't want nothing."

And I've had that conversation more than like you guys allow subdivision on easements. um which a lot of places do not allow that and the reason is um you know the easements there's there I give him an easement back then he gives you an easement he gives you an easement and then somebody from I'm going to say this don't somebody from Ohio moves in and they end up buying the lot that I have and all of you are driving through my land

where's your legal right to do so. And they are gating them. Even with your houses on the other side of that gate, they are gating them. We had a guy, one of the counties I work in, uh, somebody moved in, uh, gated it and um, he told the planning commission that he had 50 acres and he would dug holes a lot of times and, uh, he could dig one for that guy, too. He's got a port. Um and County does not allow subdivision off easements. Um in those areas people are have gotten into fights. Um

we had one here four or five years ago easement that had been gated and barricaded. We went through that same same ordeal. So you I think you have to look at uh everybody doesn't play by these honorable um assumptions that y'all made over the years. and it it's going to it's worked fine until it doesn't and someone gets hurt or somebody gets sued.

Um I will say in Clayurn County I can't count the number of people who have walked in and they had this exact situation and they've asked the planning commission to do something and they said there is nothing we can do. Only one guy threatened to hurt the individual and I was like, "Ste, can you speak up? I've got my quarter on." Yeah. Well, we we definitely need to have some things in place and there's room for improvement. But again, we don't want to change to look like the places they're leaving and overregulated. I think we got that's a a fine line to tow.

It is. And we've got to remember that when we go looking at all these stipulations and requirements and regulations that can come up, we can govern it to death. So, anyone else? Yes, sir. Make a motion to have a motion to second. All those in favor, I'll let you know. Sammy.