Cable Advisory Committee - public_hearing

Good afternoon and welcome to Pittsburgh City Council's cablecast public hearing for Tuesday, May 26, 2020. May 26, 2026 relative to Bill 2025. 2250. i'm bobby wilson the chair of the land use and economic development committee and we will begin if the clerk if the clerk please read the bill and then we'll move to a presentation and then we'll hear from the speakers

Bill 2025 dash 2250 ordinance amending the Pittsburgh code title 9 zoning article 5 use regulations chapter 911 primary uses to add retail tobacco inhalant and cannabinoids to add specific requirements and conditional use application requirements.

Thank you. And for the record, we're joined by Councilmember Erica Strasburger. And then also online, we have Council President Lavelle and Councilman Sal Anetro. And as members join, I will recognize them. So let's start out with city planning. I know we have, you can introduce yourselves. And then we could go to the presentation that you've provided for us.

So I'll start with introductions.

I'm Carolyn Ristyle, the zoning administrator for the city of Pittsburgh. And with me, she's pulling up the presentation, is Kate Rekus, one of our senior planning manager.

Yes, not senior planning manager on the technical issues this morning, or this afternoon, but we'll get there one second, sorry.

Well, this is... City playing, not innovation and performance.

And I thought I had planned ahead and downloaded it, but there you go. We'll pull it back.

So just so the speakers know, so we have a moment, we'll move to the speakers that are registered after the presentation, and then we will go to unregistered speakers, and then we'll move to comments from members if members have any comments. So just bear with us.

There we go. All right. Apologies for the delay. And that will let me move forward. Great. So thank you for the introduction. Just a quick agenda. We're just going to talk about how we got here today, talk about the process and the legislation and city planning's proposed change to the legislation content that we worked on with city council, and then next steps from here. All right, so on April 15th of last year, this Council Bill 2025-2250 was referred to Planning Commission for report and recommendation, and then on April 7th of this year, Planning Commission made a positive recommendation to City Council with the following conditions, that the legislation be amended by substitute at City Council, and then Planning Commission also made a motion for planning staff to follow up with the Commission on the legislation within one year. And then as required by the zoning code, we emailed notice and posted notice of this public hearing 21 days before the council hearing today. All right, so in the actual process for the legislation, so it was introduced to council and referred to Planning Commission. The legislation created a new definition in the primary use section, which related to revisions to the, oops, boy, I'm on top of it today, revisions to the primary use table and added design and operational standards for the restricted goods personal retail, and that's the definition, but it's what we generally think of as a vape shop. the city planning highlighted that the proposal could be amended to ensure that we could enforce it the proposed standards and make sure the language was written clearly and worked on some discussion around what zoning districts that the use should be allowed so we worked together with council staff and with the pittsburgh downtown partnership to review and revise the proposal we collaborated and simplified the definition use table and standards to ensure they are clear and enforceable under zoning and then this revised version received a positive recommendation at planning council Planning Commission to be amended at City Council. All right, and then the why about why we're doing this. This is just some general background information. Again, these are like electronic cigarettes, what we think of as vapes, which contain harmful substances, including nicotine. And per a recent review in Health in Place, vape shops access nodes in the built environment that increase visibility, accessibility, marketing exposure, and the normalization of vaping behavior, especially among minors and socially vulnerable populations. And the zoning code doesn't currently have a separate definition for vape shops. We would just consider them retail sales and surface. However, many other cities have adopted regulations for these vape shops, so it is considered a best practice at this point. And then with a buffer from schools, primary and secondary schools, to reduce the likeliness of youth exposure and possible initiation to vaping. All right, so we're just gonna walk through what's in the current legislation for for the retail tobacco inhalant and cannabinoids. So we amended that to have a broader yet more direct description. We expanded and clarified the list of products in this category. So we added nicotine products in addition to just vape products. And we removed some of the shelf space and branding tests that just didn't sort of work for best practices for the way that we would actually regulate and enforce these. We also simplified the use table. So this is the zoning districts where it would be allowed. And so right now, in the way that the bill was originally introduced, it was permitted by right in the urban center mixed use. Then it was a special exception in the local neighborhood commercial, neighborhood industrial, general industrial, residential mixed use, riverfront North Shore, and riverfront GI, the general industrial. And then it was a conditional use, and so the conditional use would be a hearing at Planning Commission and City Council in the urban neighborhood commercial, highway commercial, urban industrial, urban center employment, Golden Triangle, RIV mixed use, and RIV industrial mixed use. So really we felt that it made the most sense to have these as a special exception So this would be required to have a hearing at the zoning board and they would have to meet the standards as outlined In the use table, but then in these districts it would be again permitted with that hearing So that's the neighborhood industrial urban neighborhood commercial highway commercial general industrial urban Urban Industrial, UC Urban Center Mixed Use, Urban Center Employment, RIV Mixed Use, RIV North Shore, RIV GI, the General Industrial, and RIV IMU, the Industrial Mixed Use. So you'll notice in this second list, as of right now, it's not permitted at all in the Golden Triangle, or what we think of as downtown. And then we did revise the design and operational standards, again, just to make sure that it was something that we could review and enforce. And then we revised the definition to be retail, tobacco, inhalant, and cannabinoids. I'm not going to read this whole thing, but you can read it here. Again, it's selling products including tobacco, electronic cigarettes, smoking, and cigarettes. inhalation accessories, hemp and other synthetic cannabinoids, and anything that has the sort of psychoactive or euphoric effects. And then it also includes what the business name would be or how they would advertise themselves and their name or trade name. And then all of these for meeting the definition are judged on whether it's the principal retail activity This was a topic that came up during planning commission hearing and planning commission and city council wanted us to understand how we would actually regulate what would be a principal retail activity. We are taking a look at that and come out with some best practices and we are going to sort of publish those so everyone would know at the outset what we would consider that. And you'll see that on our next steps as well. All right, again, I'm not gonna do this again, but you can see the districts that it's a special exception, which requires the hearing at zoning board. And then the standards, that they can't be located within 1,000 feet of an elementary or secondary school, they can't operate overnight, so that's between 11 p.m. and 9 a.m., and there's no self-service sales permitted. And so we took a look at, together with city council, what these buffers around schools would actually look like. Originally, the legislation had additional uses that it needed to be buffered from. Once we actually took a look at that, we realized that it would be prohibitive because we're not allowed to completely exclude uses within the city of Pittsburgh as per PA, sort of state code. zoning board's determinations that we do need to allow all uses within the city of Pittsburgh. So there needs to be a reasonable area where they would be allowed. So this is what the bill currently is for the thousand feet buffer from schools. So the lighter purple is where it would be allowed in the zoning district as a special exception. And then the darker purple is the buffer around schools where it couldn't be sold. so we did take a look at a couple other things and this came up as part of the planning commission hearing as well we did look to see whether um you know how far apart it would be from other tobacco retailers but unfortunately we really didn't have a complete data set here like we did for other things like schools and daycares that are required to have a registration or a license that we could actually track so We didn't provide that here. We did look at daycares as well. That's the first one. In addition to reducing where it would be allowed, we also felt that daycares, it's just not the same. It's a younger group where they would be much less likely to be walking into a vape shopper, which is sort of less of an impact that we felt than the elementary and secondary schools. We also looked at religious institutions. Again, this would severely limit where it could be permitted. And then the same for parks. And then after our city council hearing, we were asked about libraries. And please excuse the color on this. It's a little different from the other one. We just got this data. But if we just looked at libraries, this is where it would also be prohibited so that there's the... The teal in this is where it would be allowed, and then the sort of lighter blue is the buffer around libraries. So if this was something that city council would like to add, the bill could be amended reasonably to add the library buffer as well. And then, yeah, next steps. So the legislation needs to be amended by substitution to the one that received a positive recommendation at Planning Commission. Again, we're going to continue to clarify and post how we define principal retail activity. And then, again, we'll follow up with Planning Commission within a year to report on the regulations and how the legislation is working. And I think that's it.

Thank you. Anything to add, or just go straight to the...

I thought she did a great presentation, and I'll be happy to answer any questions when it comes to that point, but we can move on to the next step.

Our next step is moving on to public comment. And so for testimony... public speakers that are here please give your name and or neighborhood uh for the record and also i'm sorry please give your name and neighborhood for the record please um Just as a reminder, the registered speaker is about three minutes to address counsel. And then after that, anyone who's not registered, you'll be allowed one minute. So with that, let's move to our first registered speaker is Hirsch Berenstein.

Good afternoon, Council. My name is Hirsh Marenstein, resident of Squirrel Hill, and I have the pleasure of serving as Senior Director of External Affairs with the Boys and Girls Clubs of Western Pennsylvania. Thank you to City Council for the opportunity to present this testimony in support of Ordinance 2025-2250. For more than 138 years, the Boys and Girls Clubs of Western Pennsylvania has advanced our mission of supporting young people throughout the Pittsburgh region. Today, we serve more than 12,000 youth annually, including 1,700 teenagers, through programs at 11 clubhouses and seven school-based locations. Within the city of Pittsburgh, we operate clubhouses in downtown Pittsburgh, Shadyside, and Lawrenceville, and also serve many city residents at other locations throughout the region. As an organization dedicated to preparing children and teenagers for success in life, we recognize the serious risks posed by addictive tobacco and vape products. We share City Council's commitment to promoting a healthier community for everyone who lives, works, and learns in Pittsburgh, and we commend Councilman Wilson and the rest of Council for their leadership on this important issue. Through our evidence-based programs we provide within our clubhouses and during the school day, young people gain skills and support needed to avoid risky behaviors, including vaping and tobacco use. Participants in our teen outreach program learn healthier coping mechanisms, build stronger decision-making skills, and are more likely to graduate on time with a plan for their future. Our organization believes that reducing access to vape-related products is an important step towards improving the quality of life for young people and reducing health disparities that negatively impact the community. As an operator of a thriving downtown teen center in the heart of our central business district that serves more than 50 actively enrolled teenagers, we are deeply invested in the continued vitality of downtown. This ordinance supports a more vibrant and family-friendly community by encouraging productive retail uses and limiting harmful distractions that many young people encounter while attending school or traveling through downtown Pittsburgh. Thank you for your time and consideration of this important legislation. Boys and Girls Clubs of Western Pennsylvania proudly supports this ordinance and thanks Councilman Wilson and the rest of the council for their leadership. Thank you.

Thank you, Hirsch. Our next speaker is Dale Vaughn. We'll move on to our next speaker is Christopher F. D'Addario. Next registered speaker I have on my list is Ahmed Ali. Next registered speaker is Vaughn Madden. Next registered speaker is Gina Means.

Hello, I'm here today in favor of the ordinance. My name is Gina Means. My husband and I have owned a business in downtown for over 25 years. I'm here today just to speak out on the proliferation of the over or around 20 vape convenience shops that have recently flooded our neighborhood. These unregulated businesses that peddle illegal substances that are untested sell alcohol, provide illegal gambling, promoting all the issues that turn people away from our city. I know firsthand many of our customers have voiced their fears of coming downtown. The street crime, loitering, public urination, fighting that's now the new normal should be unacceptable. The selling of single containers of alcohol and loophole hallucinogenics is catering to a Also, homeless population that exacerbates an already existing problem. These nuisance shops cater to underage population, are an easy access from any area of the city through public transportation. We have four high schools in the area whose students are being predicated upon by opening early in the morning when they arrive. one store in particular on our street is open 24 hours a day where is the oversight by those in charge what positives do these storefronts possibly add to our city's plans for improvement bar and restaurants owners have to go through a myriad of steps to open and serve the public they're heavily regulated not just charged a 25 permit they have restrictive hours limits on the number of licenses given per neighborhood They're cracked down upon for underage consumption and periodically inspected by the health department. They're certainly not permitted to allow patrons to leave the premises with one single alcoholic drink. I'm acutely aware of the need to fill vacant storefronts, but the negatives these businesses bring far outweigh any positives. Maybe our lawmakers could learn from other cities and municipalities that are instituting stricter limits and regulations against these detrimental businesses that are benefiting few but considerably harming many. It's become increasingly and difficult to operate a business in our city, and I can understand why there are now so few in existence. The problem of vacant storefronts with broken windows that are allowed to sit empty and derelict for years needs to be addressed. Perhaps a vacancy tax on these landlords, an overhaul in the permit office to push for more timely licenses for legitimate, newer businesses eager and willing to move in may be part of the solution we desperately need. Thank you so much for your time. And one other additional note. My sister is a pulmonary doctor at Allegheny General, and she speaks out to high schoolers on the horrible damage that these vape shops are causing to our youth. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next speaker is Fred Tiemann.

Thank you, Mr. Wilson and Councilman Stossberger. I'm a downtown resident, and I've been involved directly or indirectly with policing for the last 35 years. I served as a U.S. attorney here. I was a solicitor to the Citizen Police Review Board for 10 years. I wrote the rules and regulations. I chaired the search committee for a prior chief. For 10 years, I've chaired a criminal justice reform effort with Chancellor Nordenberg that's involved the police. And for the last three years, I've been a consultant on downtown public safety, working closely with the police, business, community, city, and the county. And if I didn't mention it, I lived in downtown Pittsburgh for 15 years. I'm here to speak in favor of the legislation and to give... perhaps a little insight into the problems with vape shops from a law enforcement perspective. Vape shops were bad enough, but in about 2018 they exploded because of the federal farm bill. It legalized hemp, but it defined hemp in terms of its chemical compound, which was Delta-9, and it goes on to tetrahydrochlorine. But Delta-9 became the buzzword, and because it defined hemp in terms of Delta-9, it meant that Delta-8, which is another chemical compound, within marijuana was technically legal. Delta-8 occurs in very small quantities in marijuana, but labs quickly found a way that they could buy large quantities of hemp, bake it down with questionable chemicals, increase the content, and sell it legally as Delta-8. They also created a whole range of additional products, all which sat within the gray area of the new Farm Bill. And the Farm Bill had good intentions. It was simply to create another cash crop for farmers, but it's the definition of hemp that created the problems. After 2008, the number of vape shops increased 20% a year, which is roughly doubling every four years, and their sales increased by nearly 50%. The reason, because they were selling a whole host of hallucinogenics and mood-altering drugs that were legal under the Act. With those explosion of new products, the vape shops exploded, and I'm a little bit disappointed to hear that they can't be within 1,000 feet of each other, I understand, but I'd suggest that the proliferation in the concentration of vape shops is a problem in and of itself, and I'm running out of time. Have the indulgence for maybe an extra minute or two.

We have to keep everyone up three minutes.

Okay. Well, I'll simply say that in support of the legislation, and it'll close the loophole that was created by federal law. Thank you. Thank you.

Our next registered speaker is Maria Cohen.

Can you hear me?

Yeah, we can hear you. Thank you.

Thank you. Good afternoon, members of City Council. My name is Leah Cohen, and I'm speaking on behalf of the Squirrel Hill Urban Coalition in support of Bill 2025-2250, which would establish zoning standards and location requirements for retail businesses whose primary purpose is the sale of tobacco, inhalant, and cannabinoid products. The Squirrel Hill Urban Coalition is a community-based nonprofit organization dedicated to enhancing the quality of life in squirrel hill and promoting vibrant healthy and economically diverse business districts we believe this legislation represents a thoughtful and balanced response to the rapid proliferation of vape and smoke shops in neighborhoods across pittsburgh the issue before council is not whether these businesses may legally operate rather it is whether the city should use reasonable zoning tools to prevent the over concentration of these establishments and limit their proximity to places frequented by children and families we believe the answer is yes the concerns addressed are not theoretical in squirrel hill we have seen an increase in vape and smoke shops in recent years including along lower murray avenue one of our neighborhood's primary commercial corridors this area is heavily traveled by residents families shoppers and students particular concern is the presence of vape related businesses near a bus stop used daily by approximately 150 students from taylor alderdice high school every school day large numbers of teenagers gather in this area before and after school we support safeguards, including the requirement that new tobacco, inhalant, and cannabinoid retailers not locate within a thousand feet of elementary or secondary schools and the establishment of clear operational standards for these businesses. These measures do not prohibit existing businesses from operating, nor do they ban new businesses outright. Instead, they establish reasonable guardrails that balance business interests with the city's responsibility to protect public health and neighborhood quality of life we also appreciate that the legislation addresses emerging products that often fall outside the traditional tobacco regulations including certain inhalant devices and hemp derived cannabinoid products that are frequently marked in ways that appeal to younger consumers As these products continue to evolve, it is important that the city's zoning codes keep pace and provides a clear framework for where such businesses may operate. We commend the bill's sponsorship. Thank you for your time, your service to the residents of Pittsburgh and your consideration of life.

Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Yvonne Brown.

Good afternoon. My name is Yvonne F. Brown. I don't have anything planned, but when I found out that you were talking about these stores that they have with the vape, I agree with you. There needs to be more regulations. And then I want to understand Why does it seem like there's so many stores that are from foreigners? They're not from Pittsburgh or from the United States. And really look at them stores. We're having problems up on Heron Avenue with one of the foreigners, or two of them, had a young black boy, I think he might be 14, and they actually, there's this video, and they're supposed to be going up there this afternoon on Heron Avenue to this store. So I want you to know, because you should, the reason why we come down is to let you know, because you can't know everything, I know you can't, but this afternoon at six, they're supposed to be up there at the store. Two, it's one of those vape stores, And they show these two men jumping on the boy. He's trying to get out the store. So I'm telling you, you should look into it. Please, and maybe we can stop some of this. Also, would you ask council people, why won't you get in touch with the school? Mark Brinkley, take the fathers to school. I was saying that those men need to ride the buses with the problem we have. These are fathers of the children. And when I told them about the problem, he said, one said, I'm going to Perry High School. I'll make it over the PA. Do you understand? We have to bring our families, the fathers, not just the police. Please, because the fathers can talk to them children. Not gents. Please. I see that some of our kids may get killed. because you put these regulations. Please, talk to the fathers. Call Mark Brantley. Have him to ride the buses. Have him to go to Market Square. Please, have some of the fathers try to help us. You just can't do it alone. But if the fathers talk to the children, actually be down there. I said, even the females, we can take out, if we can have a list, I'll be down there at Market Square trying to talk to the children. I don't want any to get killed, and they may. So please help us. Thank you.

Thank you. Having exhausted our list of registered speakers, we will now take comments from unregistered speakers in the audience. Please provide your name and neighborhood for the record. You will have, so we'll just go one by one. uh whoever goes to the podium first and seeing that we don't have that many uh ones that are not registered will allow for three minutes oh thank you and so um for our next registered speaker could uh please begin by stating your name thanks

Hello, Council of Neglected Neighborhoods. My name is Unique Brown. I'm here today because an underage boy walked into a store wearing a mask There were no signs on the door saying that masks are not allowed. He was allowed to walk through the store before the employees suddenly start yelling at him to remove his mask. There was altercation back and forth. There was no sound on the video, so you just have to watch the body language. And you can see from the body language that the worker pushed the boy first. And then the boy punched him. And I want to be very clear. I watched the video several times. Two grown men putting their hands on an underage boy should outrage every single adult in this city. Kids already don't listen. That don't mean they need to be beat. This is not a third world country. But what... makes this even heavier is that this is not the first incident in our communities. A woman was attacked by the same type of people on Brighton Road. At the gas station, a woman was attacked at Pizza Milano's. This stuff is okay when it happens in our communities. At what point does repeat incidents stop becoming incidents and start becoming serious community crisis? People are frustrated because it feels like some businesses come into our neighborhoods to profit from us but do not respect us. They take money out of our communities every single day, yet many residents feel watched, disrespected, talked down to, or treated like criminals in their own neighborhoods. How is it so easy for outsiders to come into our neighborhoods and open business after business, yet people born and raised here cannot even open one? Or when they do, they get closed out within a month. But these people are spreading like roaches. And it's going to our kids. They don't care how old our kids is. They're giving them vapes. They're giving them this. They can actually pull a jar of vapes. it out and put it in the baggie and hand it to whoever's there and the cop if the cop is in the store he can't stop them because it's legal i don't understand when this i guess that's what he said when it happened but this is crazy that these are the type of stores we have now that they can just reach up and get a big jar of marijuana and sell it to whoever has five or ten dollars it's ridiculous

Thank you. Our next speaker, please don't all jump at once at the podium. Understood. Good afternoon.

My name is Harris Jones, and I'm a resident of the Cultural District in downtown Pittsburgh. I'm also the co-founder of a group of coalition of 13 other business owners, and we all, residential building owners, and we all strongly believe in the renaissance of downtown Pittsburgh and the advent of more residential living in the Cultural District. The concentration of vape shops is the single largest impediment to renting space in downtown Pittsburgh. We live across the street from Steel City Tobacco, and when I testified in front of the Planning Commission a month and a half ago, there were five of these stores within 150 feet of my residence, and there are now seven. That's unacceptable by any definition. The most distressing thing is all of the unacceptable behaviors that are generated by these stores. Others have already indicated what they are in terms of the bad behavior. public urination, you name it, drug abuse, drinking, street crime, loitering, fighting, encampments, etc. But the most distressing of all is From our windows, we watch each day the buses, PRT, delivering the school children, and a hundred of them walk into these stores every morning before school. And there is nothing in these stores that any school-age children should be consuming. So I strongly encourage you to pass this ordinance as quickly as possible. I strongly encourage you to add the library buffer. I think it's an important amendment to the bill as it's written. And I strongly encourage you to reintroduce the 1,000 foot from one another element of the ordinance. Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. Any other speakers?

Good afternoon, Council. My name is Jesse Golden. I had something prepared, but I'm kind of just going to speak from the heart on this one. So the big problem I've noticed in the area was Kratom. So I'm a Marine Corps veteran. When I came back home, I originally... used and sought through natural herbal remedies to help with my anxiety, joint pain, PTSD, the whole nine yards. So originally what started as a simple natural remedy turned into something that I couldn't control. I've noticed now that this Kratom stuff that they sell, they've created an extract version. I currently ended up getting completely addicted to it. It ruined my relationships, you know, my family dynamic. After I had started taking it, which I was given for free from a smoke shop to try out, it was, I've come to find out, I believe it's like 30-some times stronger than morphine. And we're selling this stuff at the gas stations and smoke shops. It's absolutely insane. The effects work in the same way as your receptors as heroin does. It's just as potent. And yet we're selling this stuff and they're marketing it with this pretty colorful packaging and the flavors in no way, shape or form is it expressed on how highly addictive this stuff is and how what it does to your body, your mental state. Um, within days of taking this stuff, I was having absolute withdrawals, cold sweats, vomiting, throwing up, uh, sleeping at the toilet. And I had no idea anything. This would happen. It all started from simple innocence of, you know, I don't want to be on any pain medication. I'm going to start taking something that's natural, see if it works. Uh, And it turned into something that I couldn't control. I had to go to a 30-day inpatient treatment, ruined tons of my relationships. I take full responsibility for the actions of my decisions and not blaming anybody for my choice to take something, right? But the accessibility and how easily this is accessible to anybody in the community and how... terrible and detrimental i can't express enough how bad this stuff is and i think it needs to be taken serious it needs to look be looked into and um that's all i really have for y'all i appreciate it thank you for your time thank you and then i failed to mention a couple of speakers uh ago we were joined by councilman mosley and are there any other speakers that aren't registered that would like to speak in the audience

You know speakers. I without. I don't have any further speakers. We will move on the comments from members of Council and will start in person. I'll go to individual council members online so. That's member Strasburger.

Thank you, Councilman, and thank you for your leadership in introducing this bill as a prime sponsor. I'm happy to be a co-sponsor along with you on this bill. And I have a couple of very specific questions for our zoning and planning staff, zoning staff, and leadership. Did want to say, though, that while I wish we had the power to actually regulate what is sold in these shops, we don't. We don't have that power. That's not a power that the city has to regulate business and business transactions. So that's something that would have to most likely come at the state level. perhaps at the county level if it's initiated as a public health legislation by the county health department and something that county council could take up. But what we do have the power to do is is use our power of zoning and land use and determine where these shops are appropriate to be in and are areas where they're inappropriate to exist. So with that, I guess one question is... relative to the thousand foot buffer that was in the original version of the bill that was taken out, it was the thousand foot buffer from one vape shop to another vape shop that would have essentially, you said, deemed it, you know, like, along with the other buffers, impossible to, virtually impossible to operate or, you know, cite it out of existence. Is that why it was taken out?

Yeah, there were, I forget what the, there were three other daycares. Daycares, parks. Parks, yeah. And religious institutions. So those three, the daycares, the parks, and the religious institutions, my understanding is if you were to overlay all those circles together, basically there is no space left where a vape shop could open, which would expose us to the ability to somebody to challenge this ordinance, and then the courts would potentially open up the door even wider. So I think that was the issue with those uses. And the distance from other stores of the same type, I think it was... Also an issue with that but also the fact that we don't have Good data for those that exist and so if we were to be including a buffer from other tobacco Shops any any shop that currently exists that would today fall under this definition is allowed to continue but they are their occupancy permits would be for retail sales and service and it would just be something that we don't have the capacity to do to determine is that a retail for tobacco or is that a retail for books, is that a retail for food, to identify all of those locations in order to enforce a buffer from others.

Because I understand that we don't have the resources to identify every single vape shop or, you know, what I will refer to as a vape shop colloquially here in the city. Would it also be, would it also involve too many resources to be able to say when someone is seeking the permit or is seeking to, you know, open a new one to then ground truth it and say, okay, we're gonna take a walk, we're gonna go down to the site and see if it's 1,000 feet from an existing one. Is that one possible way around that or would it be still too much of a burden on the resources in our department to be able to do that rather than mapping every single one that exists in the city?

Yeah, at least my plan reviewers would not have the capacity to actually go out and visit each site to verify that 1,000-foot buffer, so I'm not sure that we would have anybody else that would be able to take on that task. Okay.

And the other issue with it, too, is that then it sort of involves, like, even if we could walk out and say, oh, this looks like a vape shop, then it's also trying to figure out whether it's, you know, if they only, if they have vape shop signs all over the windows, but yet they, you know, that's only a very small part of what they do, is it really a vape shop? And so then we're also having to get into the determination, a use determination for a different business for the one that we're trying to review and see whether it's 1,000 feet up.

Okay.

It's not just, it would involve having to inspect and, you know, it's easier when somebody comes to us and says in the future, okay, this is the use I want, and so we document, you know, we review what they sell and that sort of thing and determine whether it's the principal use. But when we're trying to do that for a business that's not applying for a permit, that is much more, it's much harder to do and much more problematic.

Right, okay. And then my second question is, someone brought this up I think at a previous meeting, but if the plan to, the Future Ready plan for PPS results in school closures and then there's no longer an active school there, I guess that would only impact those businesses that are seeking to open next to those particular schools that have closed down that are no longer schools because they're not filled with students. Is there any update to the... I'm guessing there wouldn't need to be an update to legislation, but maybe public-facing maps? Is that the only change that would occur? Okay. Okay. Yeah. I wish there were a way to... I'm sure that there was a lot of discussion. I was not present for it at the Planning Commission. I'm sure that many, many smart people have thought about this. I wish there were a way to restrict the concentration. That really seems to be the issue in certain neighborhoods, including some that I represent. We heard from Squirrel Hill and certainly downtown. But I'd like to keep thinking about it and discussing with my colleagues because that's, I think, a really important piece. and um ultimately you know we need the help of the state legislature and potentially the county to to truly regulate the harmful substances that are being sold in many of these shops so thank you for your work on this appreciate it thank you then i'm going to go in order that i um said the dames uh councilman salinatro do you have any comments

The only thing that, can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay. The only thing that I wanted to say is that I know several families that are dealing with addictions to some of these products. And it said, you know, wondering if they should not also be banned from being around our rehab facilities. But that was all I was thinking. That was it. Just that I know a lot of families that are dealing with this as an addiction. Not the vape, but the other products they sell in there, the 70H, all the liquid shots of whatever is in that. It's a drug for sure. But definitely...

that's what i wanted to point out that there should be maybe a buffer between the rehab facilities as well okay well thanks for your comments certainly something to discuss um so any more comments uh we're gonna move to uh councilman uh gary mosley

Thank you, Councilman. I just want to thank everyone who has weighed in on this over a series of months, as well as thank you, Councilman Wilson, for taking the lead on this. I think any questions or anything like that has already been answered, but this has been really helpful.

Thank you. Looking forward to working with you. So with that, I did have some comments, if there weren't any other comments from members. I just want to make sure that I thank everyone that came today, everyone that registered to speak, everyone who wasn't registered as well.

Appreciate all the, you know, especially, you know, I think individuals that are in favor of this legislation were definitely aligned.

And it's good to hear, you know, especially some of the stories of people impacted by these vape shops and i did have some comments i want to recognize for the record which is this bill reflects significant public health concerns particularly the exposure these shops have in our youth And vape shop products contain harmful, addictive substances that pose serious risk to young people and others, as we recently heard today. You know, this bill addresses the current lack of zoning framework for vape shops, and I appreciate all the work that we've collaborated on, and I appreciate the, you know, you recognize, and I'm speaking to the city plan right now, I appreciate that, you know, you recognize in your comments that the bill that was approved has some conditions. One was, you know, amend by substitution. And then there were further conversation around like libraries. I appreciate you recognizing that. So we continue to work with city planning to discuss this matter. And also council members definitely recognize comments about 1,000 feet from each other, from the public as well. We'll continue to look at that. I ultimately want to build the strongest bill. I feel like I say this all the time when we're working on zoning bills. build the strongest bill that will be able to uphold itself in the courts. I think that's the most important thing that we continue to see as a second-class city in the city of Pittsburgh, that we have to be as strong as we can in the courts and not get it hung up for years and years. People want action now, and as we can clearly hear from people that showed up today and All the stakeholders from downtown that my office and other offices have been working with, they all want action now. So these are not clearly, as we said, these are not clearly defined in the zoning code. And it limits the city's ability to regulate their location and has contributed to a clustering of vape shops in certain areas. And, you know, I just want to bring it. Hopefully I'll be able to bring it home. in my comments by saying that in response to all of these collaborative efforts, this legislation establishes a clear zoning framework, an approval process, and a consistent review standard to address those concerns. And ultimately, the bill is about protecting our youth and strengthening our neighborhoods. And in closing, I just want to really thank um the co-sponsors uh strassburger lavelle charland and uh also former council member um cal smith and um with that are there any further comments from members if not thank you everyone for showing up today Hopefully we'll be in touch in the future about this, and this bill will be appearing in a recent standing committee meeting, and we'll make that public when it will be on the agenda. Thank you very much. This public hearing is adjourned.