Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

you ready will the regular meeting of the planning and zoning board for Tuesday February uary 4th 2025 please come to order first item on the agenda is a roll call chairman David Campbell here Vice chairman Kurt Bellin here member April Evans here member Dan Harper here member Gabor kagi here me uh alternate Todd Albert here alternate Jason judge here Town manager Elizabeth Mascaro here building official Robert bck good here town clerk Amber Brown is also present and we need to make an adjust to the agenda the under new business we need to add review of the calendar so next is approval of the minutes of the December 3rd 2024 meeting anybody got any changes to the minutes motion approve all in favor second saying I I next is new business a chairman and Vice chairman and C i' like to nominate David C to continue as our chairperson second sorry yeah I'll do it another year and now we got Vice chairman do we vote on uh I guess maybe everybody in favor having me is is the chairman signify by saying I I next is vice chairman Kurt you nominating me yeah I can't second myself I'll second you everybody in favor of having courage

as a vice chairman signify by saying I I next we got the approval of the uh calendar and and there was something yes so there on that calendar there's three dates that are highlighted anything that's not highlighted is just the normal date it's the first Tuesday of every month right the three dates that I highlighted so the first one is April and there is an election on April 1st a special election election so they will be in this room and so I was going to leave it up to the board if you wanted to move it to April 8th that would be the second Tuesday okay and then the second highlight is for September the normal date is on September 2nd however that is the day after a holiday so it's Labor Day so if the majority of the board is going to be out of town or unable to attend the meeting would be the following date um so if the board wants to move that date it could be the second Tuesday which would be September 9th and then the third highlight is for November and the first Tuesday is election day the second Tuesday is a holiday so up to the board if they would like to have a date other than Tuesday in order to meet at the beginning of that month what do you what do all think I'm fine with the April 8th yeah that's fine I don't anticipate going anywhere day so September 2 works for me I it works for me too I can't plan that far ahead so

exactly so we go with that and November I'm fine with a different day yeah so what day do you have a suggestion um one individual did respond and mentioned the first thirs um parets here on first um it could be well what about the second Tuesday that's the holiday you say Tuesday ail yeah I think that's Veterans Day I think what is the holiday I think it's veterans so it could be the second Wednesday which would be November 12th or it could be the second Thursday which would be November 13th yeah I don't like that either one of those that's Weiss well question again I mean I'm not a veteran however but I I have no objections to me meting on Veterans Day it's not is closed okay so won't have staff here sure it' be quick yeah it would be real quick just tell okay the firsted that's a regular or workshop for the town commission okay what you were mentioning the first week right Thursday is there anything on that first oh no on the first Thursday thday what about Wednesday you said Wednesday what about Monday Tuesday Monday the

3 you could do Monday the 3 or Monday the 10th both of those dates are available what about Monday the thir for me on Tuesday people might take a long weekend I was just going to say that there's I know I sometimes I go deer hunting on that long weekend just just saying so with those changes somebody make a motion to approve the P zigy calendar okay so we did settle on the 3 even though there was thir or 10th yeah November is the 3D that what we there might be a chance we don't even have anything coming so so that would be Monday November 3D the first Monday in November make a motion to accept the calendar for the changes second I inor signify by saying I I approve next item on the agenda is ordinance 20251 and I'm going to ask ail to read the title and this is not for a first reading so we don't need to read the title oh this is um first reading will be next month um but because it's going to first reading for the commission this month I wanted the board to see it first in case there's any major changes prior to us going into the process okay so I'll present it if that'll help do what I'll I'll present kind of the changes and how we came up with it other words you're going to explain to

us what you did yes ma'am okay if I read it if you got a A Grade 18 in or L the measurement point is 18 in above the ground of the road if it's 28 to 36 in measurement point is wherever the that level is the Gren if it's above 36 in that's the measurement point that right um so if it's below 18 they would need to either don't have to no if it's below no they don't have to yeah they do no they don't cuz 18 is the minimum no 18 in above the crown of the road is a measurement point right doesn't say you have to build there that's the measurement Point well according to the ordinance it it has to be a minimum of 18 in yeah so in the previous yeah so and that's that's set by that's set kind of like by FEMA and flood elevations and all that that's not that's not a change that's been in your ordinance for right so we we that has to stay the way it is but what remember the problem we had was the was the not the gray area of going higher and them saying well I'm going to do a stem wall and finished floor is going to be 4 feet above the crown of the road so we've working with the town attorney and the town planner have I think we got it really solid to where say your current elevation is already above 18 in or even above 36 so say like the lot on third where that was already like four to 5T

above the crown of the road just the way it's s so now their 28 ft starts at their current elevation whatever that ground elevation is 28 ft is going to start from that point so that is going to really cap the the okay I'm going to do a stem wall and it's going to be 3 four feet above the whatever so say on B Street where that one was already I think about 2 ft above the crown of the road and then they put the 3ft stem wall in and so they ended up being like 32 33 maybe even 34 ft above that wouldn't be able to happen with this so if their current elevation is already at 18 in they can't ex they can't exceed the 36 from where their house is going to start so no matter what it'll never be 20 more than 28 ft with that 3 feet period so 31 ft will always be the cap no matter what I like the definition the defining that maximum of 36 so if you're above 36 we're starting at 36 yep yep I like yep we're starting at 36 no matter what my input would be U trying to avoid the you know ambiguity make it simple and uh and make it uh you know maybe equal too the way it's set up right now now if I don't build Robert if I don't build on a stem wall I'm limited to 292 ft from the uh from the road if I build on a stem wall you're going to give me another foot and a half so my neighbor if he builds on a stem wall he's at 31 feet from the crown MH I chose not to build on a stem wall and I'm constrained to 29 and a half all I'm saying is I I think it would be easier and simpler if you just

said that you limit the uh limit them all the elevations to 31 ft above the crown of the road then everybody's it's simple everybody's on equilibrium uh one guy isn't constrained to 28 ft because he didn't or 29 ft 29 and a half because he didn't build on the stem wall his neighbor's a foot higher because he did a stem wall this guy should be able to build the 31 also and then 31 would constrain your current grade some amount if you I guess is a good idea I guess but well but the way this is written it takes stem wall out of it it goes off the grade no I know but you're going to have my the guy building on a stem wall is going to be 31 feet above the crown of the road yes no yes no well and then the guy on a monolithic slab can be at 31 feet because he can't be more than 36 in 36 in above the crown of the road but if the current so in other words any house you build is going to be from the current elevation so if you're already at 18 in above the crown of the road you can't bring fill in or do a stem wall you're going to be restrictive the only time the more than 36 is if the current grade is at 38 or 42 I understand the grade leave the grade off the side just for a sec let's just talk about stem wall and if we want to use a non-stem wall build right now the way the regulation is the stem wall is going to give him 31 ft from the crown of the road this doesn't make any mention of stem wall well it it makes reference to what he's talking about here stem wall he's talking about uh the Finish floor being above a certain it's a uh in your in your definitions it's called an elevated height but Robert will tell you what we're talking about is a stem wall where they're putting in another foot and a half or two feet of foundation of block they're backfilling it they compress it and they build the house on top of that so the way this is set up is the guy that want to build a

put a stem wall in his house gets 31 ft from the crown of the road the guy the guy that chose not to build a stem wall is constrained to 29 and a half where where I think that's confusing let let him answer let him answer where I think that's confusing is we took finish floor elevation completely out of it so if I didn't if I didn't put a stem wall on it I can get to 31 ft from the stem from the crown of the road depending on what the elevation currently is know say the elevation is uh is 18 in on both on both Lots 18 in the guy that builds on a stem wall is going to be 31 feet above the crown of the road correct no will not be allowed to do that if both those lots are at 18 in they're both only going to be able to do 28 ft plus the 18 in what if he builds on a stem wall then he's going to shrink his house he's gonna shrink his house okay well I guess I didn't understand that correct so the limitation to height is going to be 29 and a half fet exactly don't you want to just say you mentioned that because the crown of the road don't you want to just say that no the why you can't say that is because there is some Lots in town that are greater than 36 there's not many but what this does is says if you're at say currently 42 in now you can only be 28 ft from grade to the peak of the roof so the only the only uh you're saying if you build on a uh on a stem wall or not you're both constrained to the 29 1/2 ft above the crown I understand the uh the grade Delta giving them another foot and a half or something above the grade so if you wanted to do that's where you get to the 31 so if you wanted to do two story on a stem wall you're not going to be able to have your 10 12 foot ceilings on the second floor you might only be able to have 8 ft or you or do a flat roof

change the pitch or what okay but I can see where I I definitely see where you would the so what changed that was no matter type of construction we're still going to be driven by the 28 ft from grade but no more than 36 in like you couldn't bring in a ton of fill and then say all right we're going to put a stem wall in and you know so and this was with Cory o' Gorman and our town attorney in several conver conv ation to try to get that where it ca that and took that loophole out of it yeah I understand understand the grade one I was I wasn't reading this as if uh the stem wall also gained a foot and a half but you're telling me that's not the case does not matter the type of constru only other input I would have is look at your definition of Building height I think it needs to be harmonized with your new uh proposed ordinates because it just is stuck on the uh I think it's stuck on the old uh well do you look at it okay and see if you think it needs to be harmonized with this does everybody like this I think it does exactly I think what we intended to do is yes explain how to measure and what the limit is and how high you can go and it did exactly what we wanted to and and one of the reasons in in talking to Cory o' Gorman and the town attorney was being able to also make it easy to understand For The Architects engineers and the homeowners that are coming into town and when I do my plan review and present it to you is going to be really easy to be able to have that there's only two ways it it could go we're going to look at what the current grade is and it can't be more than 28 ft so but okay and you guys have assured me this you know in the event the existing grade or finished floor exceeds 36 in what when you say or finished floor exceeds 36 in what do you what you're just you're talking about a

stem wall then again well the reason why we left and this was this was interesting and I'm glad you brought that up so if the current grade is let's say it is at 4T like Third Avenue so it can only be a Max 28 ft from that grade period so you're going to have to build off that grade 28 ft because we can't come in and say now you're going to have we're going to make you remove fill but where the current finish floor cuz they the town attorney wanted to take that out and I said well we have a house right now remember the one on the ocean that they scraped the house off of the slab and the slab stay because it already had augra piles and all that and they qualified for the D exemption did not have to have all that that is a current grade and so I said we need to leave that in there in case we have more of those houses because that's already an established finished floor and then we can go from there 28 ft but again we're sticking to that 28 feet so AB absent of delta in the grade we're never going to see a set of plans that comes in for more than 29 and half ft from the crown of the road correct okay we may see them they just won't get approved know what they won't get pass in no I just have a question it's just I'm curious why do we take Road out of which street we keep talking about crown of the road but thein say Street the town attorney did that and I I didn't question him on that but Street maybe is more legal term Street yeah are you on A1A is that a street one just why one more thought is uh I've heard this from some of the uh the homeowners as as Robert knows the uh the crown of the road varies crown of the Street Crown CR Street varies uh along the front of your you may you may indicate you know a line perpendicular to the center of the house or the highest it's always been the highest is that what itn't always been the highest

yeah doesn't say that is but just says crown of the rad it doesn't say highest whatever you call that measurement like the highest point and with the steep hills we have then might be a 3-in difference but but you know believe it or not when when you're doing renovations and so trying to get that 18 Ines believe it or not an inch or two is sure it's a big deal but we've always since I've been here and and even hearing before what you guys have always wanted was that highest point correct so everybody's okay with this yes sir we need to vote on it probably not a bad idea you can but you will definitely see it next month for official will have to vot I make a motion that we approve this presentation to the I second it sign okay do we have a comment do we have a discussion or do we just vote vote I I would like uh to amend that motion to include Robert checking to see if it harmonizes with the uh height of a building definition okay you got I think conflicting wording there a little bit and then possibly even maybe adding in from that highest point AB budding the property yes yes that should that should Bey yeah and still second I know our old ordinance does mention that I just can't remember if it's in definition or in yeah all right so somebody make a motion for the amended versions I accept the Amendments my m stands and I second it I favor signify by saying I I good that done uh public hearings got no public o business uh ordinance 2501 building L we did that uh accessory structure

requirement so I put a sheet of paper in front of each one of you that is a which I just learned about today as well as the town manager learned about today um I'll probably be a little more up to date on some of these because I'm was selected to be on the uh State boaf Legislative committee so I'll probably be first to hear about a lot of these things that are coming down this particular one is interesting because it basically says um let's see if I can get to the right one here so 1 163 31771 accessory dwelling units number three a local government shall adopt an ordinance to allow accessory dwelling units without any corresponding increase in parking requirements in any area zon for single family residential use such ordinance does not apply to a planned unit development master plan Community as those terms as defined basically housing project or something like that so I got this today I just thought I would give you guys a copy that we may potentially want to kind of table that until we see what happens with this next month as it goes starts its cycle through the legislation because anything we may do may may be futile I I don't know where this is going to go I agree with tabling it anybody in favor of tbling it I have a question is this potentially one of those things that if we don't have something in force that we can't because this this has to do with uh accessory dwelling units which we pretty much don't allow in single family zone so right that could that's so the

so how this reads now I would say when they say shall it means they're they're gunning for just taking that totally out of your hands but if we already have it on the books well here's the thing it would that wouldn't matter but now as this works its way through a compromise may be somebody says well I'm willing to pass it if you grandfather X or you so that that could all happen over the next four to six months I think I think April's got a good point I know uh they talked about grandfathering in and they kind of blew that with u with some of the Sony in the past so it it may be something to take uh some just for protective uh planning already allow accessory structures this is accessory dwelling unit it's a second kitchen is what it somewhere someone can live in it's defined having a second kitchen it's not a not a pool house these are single family dwellings these are living units the dwelling is the definition of the living unit so these are second kitchens that are can be detached in the backyard that everybody's been trying to avoid and the thing is is Mr Campbell if that passes then it would default to the building code to determine the size minimum size it would need to be to be classified as a dwelling unit so then you have minimum bedroom size minimum and so this thing could be whatever it ends up being I'm not you have to do the math on it but it could easily be 6 800 square feet to accommodate a living unit well there's nothing we can do tonight to put in place anything to stop that right but definitely something to do relatively quickly I don't know if just our second kitchen thing would negate this but probably not

we should probably Define it ASAP I can make a phone call to the town attorney you know tomorrow and just run this bu and see what he think again this is this is my concern right did I hear get wrong or is this the end of single family zoning it's what it sounds like it would still be single family I think what the state's trying to get at is what is is allowing you know to care for your elderly parent or you know that kind of stuff and and what I'm thinking but I don't well and that and that probably works really well in non- coastal areas but unfortunately what we end up with is it's just too appealing for people to plop something in there and now it's become a short-term rental um you know I think I think most of us my for my part I personally don't have a problem with somebody renting out a a small building or something except that in our situation it tends to lead to abuse it's not it's not this regular neighbor that's going to live there for the next 20 years yeah and I was fully prepared to just come in and say are we okay with this 300 and then we were going to take it to the commission at the next meeting and then I got this today and I'm like well I think we probably should have a discussion well but if if we if we can if we go ahead and limit it to the 300 is it that's I don't think we have any restrictions well it's 50% of the primary and can't be taller than it's pretty vague yeah so I mean I actually I think it just can't even be larger than the primary not 50% that was something we were trying to that's what it is it can't be larger can't be larger than the

primary correct you know that that really in the situation that we find ourselves that's of of no help to us I don't think and so I you know I wonder why wouldn't we want to proceed with limiting the these accessory buildings then I make a suggestion we have a and because we can always change it in the future that we vote tonight to have 300 foot accessory build I'll make that motion second all in favor uh any discussion no um I'm uh we're not trying to do anything permanent tonight we're just trying to do stop Gap and all I'm I understand the stop Gap and if nobody cares as you know accessories structure includes all those other uh types of buildings not just an enclosed if you're okay with it's kind of a rough way to put it in is all I'm saying because you're not really defining the specific accessory structure that you're constraining to the size but if you guys are okay with that didn't we some wording that it had to do with it did not apply to open air yeah we did have some I don't I think you guys chose the delay that uh that wording until this meeting or something do you have any anybody have any recollection of any constraining wording so that's why I put it back on the agenda because there it wasn't included in the discussion of for 300 feet so there was a little bit of that put in there but it wasn't specifically okay well I I think the consensus Among Us was that it didn't apply to open air things as in a gazebo or

onlys we discussed minimum but this this motion this motion tonight to say 300 Square ft is a stock Gap okay to prevent can I ask a question I wasn't hear of the last meeting but as I'm reading the notes it looked like the discussion was agreeing to 400 square feet and then all of a sudden it switched to 300 square feet I didn't understand but there was no logic as to why it changed because the chairman said that was his preference and there were those of us who aged I mean that's exactly what but I agree with your whole concept of getting in front of this as opposed to waiting well te technically we can show where this has been being kicked around for what at least six months now MH um well that's not true maybe maybe only four three or four months officially um but you know it's it's kind of like we have been we've been caught with our pants down in the past on on on a number of things and I would like to would it uh to do what we can to get ahead of it I don't disagree with that but I know the commission has been uh working at length on constraining the short-term rentals Etc uh for it to actually qualify as grandfathered in it seems like they're G they almost have to get some sort of ordinance down yeah we have to do that would is it just could we just recommend that they consider putting something in place uh that we came up with 300 feet that could use to to cushion us or

grandfather Us in I mean they're going to have somebody's going to have to formulate a an actual ordinance to get uh credit if you will can't be just talking about it should we bump it up to them or do you want this body to formulate an ordinance or you should you bump it up to them and see if they think it's wise we've already asked that was part of what all this discussion's been about is to create an ordinance which will then go to the commission for their can I just ask clarification uh it says there in three the local government shall adopt an ordinance allowing to allow accessory dwelling units without any corresponding increase in parking requirements maybe their goal is we don't we don't require an increase in so we might be in compliance right okay all right we already allow accessory dwelling units we no we don't we allow accessory structures not accessory dwelling units or second kitchen living units that's what talking I almost think they're looking at the parking ordinance well I think they're using that as a back door to get in make the objective could be the the actual being able to have the accessory structure because most places will what drives that is the parking so you can't have you know whatever so I'm I'm almost thinking they're going in the back door with that I mean I'm not an attorney but yeah people trying to prevent these from going in will put in parking requirements M to make it so that they have a way of getting around having to initiate these they're trying to allow them to begin with if it's a if it's single family zoning that means single family single family right and you know a single family structure so I wonder if the elimination of second kitchens would act as that stop Gap now it may it may it's been moved in second it to yeah I I would still like

for us to have it ordinance created to go that's not Theiss what I'm talking about it's been moved and seconded that we tonight say 300 Square fet so we got something in the ground in case something comes along here with the understanding that it's does not apply to open structures right yeah so all in favor signify by saying I I so it's 300 square feet and again I'll I'll be in Tallahassee next month for the kick off of a lot of this so I'll probably be able to be pretty up to date on what's Happening next item is discussion of code revisions about Landscaping so what we have basically that we were going to present is I believe which I was kind of actually surprised this was on here because I thought the last meeting we had agreed palms would be included Dan and so I guess we just need to know that if if you guys are good with what we came up with last time which I thought I thought we had voted on it we can present that to the commission so the Board needs to pick a spokesperson from this board because EAB is also going to pick a member and you will both present to the commission and are they presenting are something different than what we yes which is why both boards are going to have to present their recommendations so who wants to go represent us to the commission this is what we came up with I'd be happy to go that's all right and Amber I would just say U I would like to see whatever that it is they're going to present ahead of time so they're meeting tomorrow so I don't know what they're

presenting I just know they don't agree with what the um would they would lay out their proposal in the minutes to the uh Town commission meeting is that where they would put their proposal versus our proposal is that where it would come out it will be yes okay yeah when I have it from them I won't know until they're done meeting but before we have the meeting date set with the commission I'll create the packet and send it out all right so their meeting is tomorrow night so we can listen to their meeting or show up tomorrow not you can show up but they do not do live okay will their meeting be anywhere to read before the next commission meeting so we can just look and see what they're what they're talking about they create their own minutes okay so they will present minutes I don't know how detailed understand what I can their meetings tomorrow night yes and it will be in the town hall training room I can I can attend I'll be do we we have any idea what the the differences are I would guess it's just the I think they're at I think they want to include more na Florida native was definitely one friendly

Heights a lot more detail to kind discussed when they were here that's kind of what they discussed I know at one time they had um wanted to have all Florida native plants planted for like new construction greater than 50% um and the thing I had said to them is that's that's very hard to enforce once they die or if somebody plants it because that's the requirement and they rip it out two months later because they don't like it so um that's an Enforcement issue for sure and so I do know that I did talk to to Curtis about some of that stuff that you have to realize that some of the things that you're asking us to do become an become Enforcement issue so bear that in mind but I that's all I know well they may be requesting new home uh owners to have Landscaping constraints that nobody else has that may not be part of their but I did have that conversation with them they have a new presentation that they wanted to do tomorrow and it's at 5:30 in the town hall training it's the town hall training room over there yes so walk into town hall and it's the door immediately on your left to I didn't know it wasn't anymore communicate on any topics that are discussed because it will come before so it

could next we have public comments no public you got any report I do want to let let you know that the the commission has approved the town to buy software that tracks vacation rentals so they'll they'll track the vacation rental we'll have an 800 number where people can call in complaints um where they'll have to have a certification from the town that would have to show up in order for them to advertise on vbo and Airbnb to help get that under control good more control so that will that will be good and I do have a question um the meeting is over for you chairman and Kurt and and April um about zoning okay that I need to talk to you about all right anybody got any items to be added to Future meetings that we haven't talked about yet no yeah building Heights we're getting done a lot of the hot hot buttons are basically in the attorney's hands so I mean making progress on a lot of the hot button items so I mean as far as building I I will say um we the building department has I mean I did almost a million in plan review today and it wasn't a new house so it was just seaw walls docks I mean a house 100 U Riverside I finaled that house a major interior remodel last year finaled that nobody ever lived in it and got a permit

I approved today for $800,000 complete interior remodel again I don't even know that the tile in the bathroom's ever gotten wet from a shower and the windows are all brand new and they're going to be gone as well and the only addition part to it is they're going to where the house on the backside has got like kind of a northwing South wi is they're going to redo the porch area in between it that's it wow it it it ain't cheap I mean I'm running more inspections now than I did last summer and we just came out of December wow 100 Riverside first house as you come into town on the right I just couldn't believe it when I got those plans the the one that just got remodeled it's a now this the kitchen and bathrooms and all of that were redone seaw wall was done all right so we're busy I do have one to think about for next time um and I don't have a plan or thought of it yet but for regular mechanical replacements air conditioning units things like that fee schedule right now is based on the cost of the replacement correct a percentage maybe we should on a replacement think about a flat fee type of thing something reasonable only because I heard it from one of or two of my neighbors recently that well if I get a decent unit I pay more not that it's a big amount but it is a difference so if you get a $6,000 repl air conditioner as opposed to a $112,000 air conditioner you're paying a very different fee well when I restructured the fee schedule um almost three years ago now all the surrounding municipalities

including the county it's all based on dollar amount the problem is the houses that are on the ocean have three and four AC units so they would do all of them for $75 and then they wouldn't even charge the $79 and send $4 to the state they were sending $4 out of the permit fee to the state so it was $71 and that's why the building department was about 50,000 in the hole every year gotta Okay okay something that so yeah could you consider them some things maybe a c well before I even go any further maybe I will get with you and think about is it something that we should even bring up yeah they had a flat fee schedule that literally listed I think almost everything from storefront glass to AC units and and this is the funny one that they would come in and say well I'm just resurfacing the pool for $75 permit fee and well I come in I start doing the plan review and I go my God this is $35,000 how big is this pool right well no they're getting a screen room they're getting a new PA deck they're getting a pool heater and they're getting a resurfacing for $75 and I'm like no way man no way and that takes multiple inspections so by the time I do the plan review and go do all the inspections we're Lo we're upside down big time I I think what we may be alluding to is if take a an AC unit and and particularly the outside the condenser um depending on the size of it and the sear you can have huge variation in the retail cost of it but you don't spend any more time inspecting uh you know a a 10 ton 22 sear than you would a 3 ton 15 sear what's the the difference in cost of fees between a $66,000 unit and a $12,000 unit I would have to I would have to just off rough guess I'm not holding you to um something like that

[Music] probably probably anywhere from 80 to $120 and again federal guidelines have are driving a lot of that so you can't even do your condenser anymore without doing your air handler correct and then now they're saying well gez if we're doing that we might as well do the duck work now I'm climbing through the attic and yeah but still the difference in the size of the UN and and the efficiency of it does Drive the cost cost and and yet for you to inspect it but if you're only talking $40 difference yeah it doesn't I'm not saying my idea was a good idea it was just a thought no it's it's and and and I know the neighbor and I know the neighbor you're talking about because him and I had a great discussion yeah he's he's was super nice guy and I said look all all we did was basically mirror what all the other municipalities do because it's a lot easier to just say cost of construction drives the permit fees it's just yeah okay do I hear a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second Mo meeting adjourn you want to talk yeah I wanted to talk um in my office I have the official zoning map yep and for RM is stair Ste um you know in that first block you have the m y on my map the first house in after the multi is considered part of 4rm