Board of Aldermen - Regular Meeting

being recorded.

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the City of Fenton's committee meeting for Thursday, June 11th. We'll begin with a Pledge of Allegiance. City Clerk, roll call, please.

Alderman Lange.

Here.

Alderman Breitschap. Here. Alderman Harrell. Here. Alderman Rogers. Here. Alderman Hewles. Here. Alderman Jokers.

Here.

Alderman Mazerang. Here. Alderman Wisbrock is excused absent, seven for the quorum.

Thank you, ma'am. I would like to recognize Bob Judge, who's in the audience this evening. Bob, give me a shout out there. Bob was on our planning and zoning for many years, beginning, I think we came up with 2,000. How many years did you serve? Four years. So thank you for your service. Under the mayor's comments, uh i don't know if anybody's had a chance to go down they finished completed the concrete work and back of the uh ball diamonds one two and three really looks uh like a good job it's going to be much more playable i believe a lot of other activities the restrooms and so forth so if you haven't the playground i think the slide was delivered today or yesterday So that'll be forthcoming. So just a lot of activity. If you haven't had a chance to go around and take a look, do so. And kudos to Nikki and the staff for all the hard work. Next Friday is food truck event. So do we know who's playing? John Henry. OK. I think I'm going to start a new section of the mayor's comments called Fenton Antics. It seems this one at the sports complex, we had an individual who had its pet raccoon on a leash at the ball games and all. And then I was informed today through an image that we had a guest right in the middle of the ball diamond just break down to his skivvies and did a full-fledged sunbathe laying flat on the soil. We have pictures if you care to see them. So every month I think I'll bring something up because there's always something in Fenton. Public comments. I have no public comments. All right. Thank you, Jane. I don't see anybody in the audience. I don't see anybody on Zoom, so we'll move right into our finance committee. What I'd like to do is take finance. We'll get Mr. Verne out of here early, and then we'll go to Chuck, and that'll take care of Tammy as well.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Tonight, first up, we have the April 30th, 2026 financial report.

No, we're following. When we go to the parks report, we'll make that motion. Thank you.

Hopefully everybody's had a chance to review this. Are there any questions on the financial report?

I only have one question. Tammy, can you explain under the general revenue, the sales tax seems to be trending higher to the tune of 26.55%. And then if we go to the park stormwater, that's up 30.13%. Why the difference? I know, but I just have always failed to ask that question. Do we know? Well, there is.

Sorry, it was not.

That's okay.

No, I don't know if some of the stormwater parks I know comes from the logistics park over there. So that's a little bit different for them. So that's why theirs I think is a little bit higher. But it's different. I don't know if it has to do with because we're a pooled city and the pool's just a little bit different for the, excuse me, the sales tax for the general fund, of course, than it is for the stormwater funds.

I think you're probably right because the formula changes up on the pool. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Anything else? Okay, next we have the presentation of the draft 2025 audit. Tammy, you can walk right back up.

Okay, we have a copy of the draft and then a draft of the audit report. And as you can see on page C, we have a draft of the independent auditor's report, but they did issue... Dick Eggemeier did issue a, or is going to probably issue an unmodified opinion, which is the highest form of assurance a city can receive on their financial statements. So that's a very positive opinion letter because I do have the final reports in my office, and so that did not change. So everything's fine with the audit. In the very back, I know we have the management letter. We have no management letter comments, no significant deficiencies, material weaknesses, or anything that was discovered in the audit. They also did a yellow book audit. However, that was not a single audit because the city did not receive over a million dollars in federal funding this year. but everything came out fine on the Yellow Book Audit also. They just look at different, excuse me, internal controls for our services on how we do different policies and things like that. So they look at it a little bit differently for the Yellow Book Audit than they do just for the general audit.

Yes. So I know it's per the financial policy of the emergency fund that we have. So the policy is on page 24. But the total comes out to be just $4 million for emergency. But we have $69 million in capital assets. I just wonder if that tornado that came through North St. Louis, that was more than $4 million. So I just don't know if it's enough. Or is that like a four million that will get us started and then insurance will kick in? You know what I mean?

Like, isn't it four million?

Like, it used to be, ooh, somebody's a millionaire, but now it's not really that big of a deal. A million dollars isn't a lot, where when you're talking 69 million of assets. And I wonder if, or is this just a quick to get us started and then we're able to... You know what?

How we look at that, or how I think we kind of come up with that, is what happens if we have a catastrophe and nobody can be paid or anything? So that's why we look, we actually take 50% of our expenditures and say, we set that money aside in fund balance so we can pay at least that operating expense. We know we have that money set aside, which is not for emergency purposes, for other purposes. That's kind of how I look at it. I'm sorry.

I didn't get it. It made sense.

It's like we have 50% of the expenditure so we can go ahead and have the operating and kind of do the operating still and pay people and things like that. That's kind of the way I guess I would look at it more.

We've always looked at it as we would be able to operate as we operate for six months if no additional monies came in.

But if River Chase is knocked out... knock on wood, it doesn't. But, you know, if a tornado hits River Chase, that's going to be more than four months.

Yep, and that's when we would work with our insurance, but the reserve is for the operations. Got it.

And that's my whole purpose of the question is that we want to look at it.

So it's six months, which is almost, I mean, most municipalities only do. Okay. We do more than, I think, many municipalities.

We do 50%, but, I mean, sometimes there's a lot of municipalities that can only do 17%.

Oh, so this is answered my question. Just compared to our capital assets. Thank you. That was it.

Any other questions? It says we need a motion here. Is this just to approve the draft?

For the draft. Okay. Just so you know, the auditors will be here at the board meeting to go over the final.

Thank you.

At this time, I'd like to make a motion to approve. Alderman Jokers?

I'll second.

We have a motion by Lange, second by Jokers. Do we have further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

Motion carries. Next, we have a consideration of property and casualty renewals for 2627, the Daniel and Henry Company.

Good evening. I'm Jim Vernon.

You can pull that up, move it all around. There you go.

Better?

That's better.

I'm Jim Vernon with Daniel and Henry.

This is John Higdon with Daniel and Henry.

Nice to meet you.

Hi, John.

We do your property and casualty insurance. Mr. Mayor, just a favor, if you would, don't go too much into the Fenton antics when your insurance people are here.

I promise you I won't.

Just kidding. We presented the renewal and I must say I am very pleased that the city of Fenton actually has a reduction in premium this year. We do a lot of municipal business. I have not delivered a presentation that has a reduction in premium until this one. Nikki, Jane, congratulations. This is a very good report. You all have put a lot of work into it. We didn't really recommend any changes in coverage this year. Your question about the earthquake, the city buys $25 million worth of coverage. You've got $43 million in values.

That's a pretty good ratio.

Okay, well, since we're talking about earthquakes, question is not earthquake, but I see it says wind, hail, and hurricane, but not tornado. Wind would include tornado. That was my question. Thank you.

So, Mr. Jim, can you tell us why you think our rates went down?

If you look at the pages, I believe it's 5, 6, and 7 that show the premiums, I'm sorry, the premiums and losses that the city has had. Look at the general liability.

Over five years, you've had $2,000 worth of claims on 135 in premiums.

Property's not quite as good. Auto's not as good. You get back where comp is better. Umbrella is very good.

Cyber liability is very good. Your loss experience is what has dictated what the insurance companies are doing here. They really price things fairly aggressively.

You'll see even with travelers who does your liability, average the price is down. Very pleased with that. Any questions about the proposal itself?

Any

I know I don't, and I wanted you to, I know that's in the report, but for the record, so everyone could kind of hear why, you know, our rates have dropped.

Sure. Jim, if you wouldn't mind kind of walk them, walk the board through our insurance, where we went up to $5 million, and it's actually going to be less than what we were paying about the adjustments, but that we're buying the additional umbrella. Can you kind of read?

The transfer insurance company.

Jim, can you try to speak into the, yeah.

In the past, Travelers Insurance Company that writes your general liability, auto and umbrella, they have written a primary policy with $3 million in limits. And you bought an umbrella of $1 million on top of that to get to $4 million. The state of Missouri has a sovereign immunity limit of right now $3,567,000. Travelers reduce what they write in the primary to 1 million per occurrence, 2 million in the aggregate. Thus to get up to where you need to be to cover yourselves for the sovereign immunity limit, for recommending the purchase of the $4 million umbrella. So that is a change in the way the traveler's policies works, but it will still be with the same carriers, still the same totals.

Any other questions? Alderman Rogers, you're good.

It's all right. I'd like John to talk a little about workers' compensation.

Sure. Another area that has gone down year over year on your property casualty program is the workers' compensation policy through Missouri Employers Mutual. While I'm new to Daniel and Henry and serving the city of Fenton, Jim has been around a long time and has the history of the experience modification factors for the city over the last 10 years, and it's a real success story. Over that time, the EMOD has gone from a 1.97 or a 97% surcharge to a 0.84 or a 16% credit on our rates through our work comp care. That's a direct result of our loss control representative at Daniel Henry, Colin Zuber, working with Missouri Employers Mutual's team and of course the administration for the city and all parts of the city's HR team from parks to maintenance and those who are employed by the city. So you asked, Mayor, where savings is coming from, Jim's point, it's in your loss history and part of that is the workers' compensation.

Any other questions? I don't think so. John, welcome. Mr. Jim, thank you so much.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you. At this time, I'd like to make a motion to approve. Okay, we need a second. Alderman Hills?

I'll second.

We have a motion by Lange, second by Hills. Do we have further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Thank you, gentlemen.

Last thing we have tonight is a consideration of a request for the mayor to execute a road and bridge tax affidavit. See memo from Nikki Finkbeiner. Nikki, do you have anything on this?

Sorry, this is just the Broaden Bridge affidavit that we sign every year, basically stating that the funds that we bring in will be used for the required items for Broaden Bridge improvements. So it's just an annual exercise and we'll just request that the board approve the mayor executing the affidavit.

Okay, thank you. Any other questions? No other questions at this time. I'd like to make a motion to approve.

Alderman Jokers. Motion by Lang, second by Jokers. Do we have further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Motion carries. That's all I have tonight. Now we need a motion to Alderman Heals.

I'd like to make a motion to move Parks up next.

Okay. We need Alderman Breitschaft. I would second the motion. Motion by Heals, second by Breitschaft. Further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Do you want to start with I would like to, what we've all been waiting for, Mr. Calvary.

Okay.

That's up to you.

No, that's fine. I mean, we've got people waiting to hear this. So we have a, I've got to find it. Well, we have Chuck from Missouri Native Stewardship who's going to speak about invasive species today. Oh, yeah. This is actually under health and safety.

Okay. I apologize. So let's make a motion to go to health and safety. I'll make a motion. Alderman Jokers, would you like to make that?

I would like to make a motion to move health and safety up to now.

All right. We need a second. Alderman Lange. I'll second. Motion by Jokers, second by Lange. Further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Now you're on. Alderman Jokers.

Okay. I...

paper consideration amendments chapter two.

I would like to consider the amendment to chapter 215 of the municipal code related to public nuisances. Oh, wait. Yeah, that's it.

Like that one.

Amy, I like what's going on. Okay.

Yeah, these are amendments to Chapter 215, Nuisances. And in those amendments included a section on evasive species. And we did continue that from last month to give an opportunity for members of the public to have some input. We posted it on the website, put it in our newsletter. Jane, I don't believe we got any comments, and I don't know if there's anybody here tonight to speak on it, but then we also invited Chuck to come and speak on the benefits of reducing and removing invasive species in our community.

Yes. Yeah, I was wondering if we had anybody that kind of responded. I know this is a topic for Alderman Rogers. Yes.

Yes, it is. I actually am a little ill-prepared. I'm on the road, obviously, and I've done a ton of research, and I didn't bring my folder with me, so I do have some comments. I know I'm probably outnumbered here, so I will try to keep it brief, but I do have quite a bit to say, if you'll hear me. But I'm all ears. If we have somebody here that could convince me otherwise, I'd love to hear it.

So his main concern, and Alderman Rogers, you can correct me if I'm wrong, is he kind of feels like if it's your property, you should be able to plant what you want on it, invasive or not. But I... was kind of the problem is that the seeds spread everywhere and then the problem goes all over, not just in that person's yard.

Go. Go. And go. So first off, thank you, everybody, for allowing me to come and share some ideas with you about invasive species. As you know, I'm a botanist. I'm a certified arborist, a grow native, certified professional. So plants are my world, as you all well know. So the role, and trust me, although I have a son that's an attorney, I really like your attorney. I think she's wonderful. But I got to tell you, as far as Private property, I'm not here to talk about, I mean, I don't have any legal implications to be able to share with you, but what I can tell you is the implications of that plant material. If we were to talk just about Bush Honeysuckle, which is near and dear to the City of Fenton Parks Department and all of you, it is the ongoing scourge of common ground. whether that's highway right of way, park ground, church property, school district property, subdivision common ground. And to put it in perspective, that particular plant prior to 1974 really didn't exist in the state of Missouri. In fact, it was introduced by the Plant Materials Center out of Ellsbury, Missouri, which if you know anything about that, that's the USDA and the NRCS that under the idea of seems like such a good concept at the time or a good idea at the time has turned out to be 50 years later, a huge problem, right? And so what's insidious about that particular plant is if we sat down and we decided, okay, we're going to do an exercise, and if you can design a plant that will be more successful than anything else around it, what would you do? You would design a plant that would leaf out first in the spring, that would hold its leaves until everything else went to bed in the fall, and had a flower that attracted pollinators, but more importantly, created a fruit that every migrating songbird and local songbird might think is like crack cocaine. And that's what bush honeysuckle is. That red fruit is super attractive. And as we go through and we work through the Fenton Park projects, you can see the impact of where the honeysuckle comes from, how it begins to colonize those areas. It always lands on the fence row because that's where the birds land when they do their business. It always starts beneath a big tree because that's where the birds go, right? And so the idea that if we're stewards of this land that we live on and we call home, call the city of Fenton, you all have taken bold steps to say, not in our parks. and you've made a big commitment to begin to pull that back. You've made a commitment and signed a resolution telling MoDOT that they need to behave on their right-of-ways as well. And so when it comes to property, private property, mandates are difficult for this board, for any board to put forward. To mandate that a homeowner can't have this or can't have that is pretty difficult. And so I appreciate Councilman Rogers' perspective on that. I live on three and a half acres. I like my three and a half acres because I can't see anybody around me. But it's not because of Bush Honeysuckle, it's because of everything else. So the impacts become, instead of mandate, can you incentivize? And I think you all have taken a bold step to say, hey, wait a minute, we're going to set the example. And we're going to set the example that honeysuckle is a problem, and we're going to start with a honeysuckle on our property, on the city property. And you guys are doing a great job of doing that. And so then the next question is, how do you create that incentive for neighbors to do that? I met this morning with the park and tree advisory board for the city of Ladue, and they're asking the same question in the city of Ladue. How can we go in and solve the invasive species question? And part of it is in the context of the movement that's sweeping the country right now, which is all about native plants and pollinators and the interest to rewild or to create a natural native landscape or managed landscape. And so the conversation this morning went, oh, well, we think we should get rid of all the honeysuckle. And I'm like, well, how are you going to do that? How are you going to advise your city council to do that? What kind of policy? And so it's one thing if a property owner comes in and buys a new lot. For new constructions, it's easy. You could pass an ordinance, including in your code, that says that property has to be cleared of all invasive species as part of the building permit. You could do that for a new residential property. You could do that for a new commercial property. You could do that for a teardown or a restoration property. You could put a trigger into the code that says if you do so much percentage of improvement or change to the property that you need to address the invasive species. The idea that you would hire a code enforcement officer to walk down the street and write code violation for every property that has bush honeysuckle would probably end up in a recall election for all of us, right? And I think there's a fine line there between setting the example and creating incentives to do that. And another example of an incentive is you've heard of the calorie pair or the Bradford pair buyback program. If you cut down a Bradford pear and send a photo, MDC and the Missouri Prairie Foundation and a couple other groups will help give you a new tree to plant in your yard, right? It's an incentive to do the right thing. It's not a mandate to get rid of the pear. It's an incentive to cut them down because the only thing that's more on the same par as bush honeysuckle might be gallery pear, right? And when we look on the highway right-of-ways on 141, 55, and 270, and 44, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, the St. Louis district does a lousy job with invasive species. And so that impacts all of us. It impacts the money that our church has spent. It impacts the school district budget. It impacts your parks budget, right? And for me, it impacts what I do at my house because I have to spend a ton of time every year going after the honeysuckle. And you all understand, it's a battle. It's a long-term battle for doing the right thing. To say that it's one and done doesn't work that way. That honeysuckle seed, for example, lays dormant and may be viable in the soil for two to five years after that plant goes away, right? Two to five years. So once you do the initial investment to come back and continue to stay ahead of it, it's about an investment that makes sense. You don't buy a police car or you don't buy a parks vehicle and don't put air in the tires or gas in the tank or oil in the engine. And that's what stewardship is all about. And that's why invasives click, click, check all the boxes of all the things that are troublesome and why natives really create a reasonable alternative. We've worked with you all, with Nikki and the parks team and all of you recently at Fabic, at Presler, at Westside. I mean, Westside is really turning out pretty cool. The Fenton City Park is really turning out pretty cool. And so you all are making that investment. So if you're talking about taking the invasive conversation to the next level, from a perspective of a botanist and all of those credentials, but you also know that I'm a city councilman in the city of Maryland Heights, and I sit on the board of directors for the MML and the County Municipal League, and I would tell you the incentive is the secret, right? That's the best way that you're going to engage the public to get things done.

ahead um also option alternatives because like i talked to my husband it's like okay honey this year i'm taking my change so i'm cutting that cutting out the japanese honeysuckle and goes but i like the privacy i was like well then we're gonna have to plant something else but also if you could give people a list of this instead of japanese honeysuckle if you cut it down and plant This will have your privacy.

Right. So just to be clear, because I'm a genius and species geek, Japanese honeysuckle and bush honeysuckle are two different plants.

Okay.

But they're both obnoxious.

Okay. So we're talking about bush honeysuckle?

Well, Japanese honeysuckle can be equally troublesome. But I would tell you that it would be easy to come up with a list. The Grow Native website is a great resource. One of the things that we've talked about with the parks and the perennial plantings and the parks is to do QR codes. And the other part of that is to have a QR code that talks about what was here, what's here now. And why are these good alternatives? So down at Fenton Central Park, or the city park, we're talking about doing some shrub plantings that will be native shrub plantings that'll be classic, perfect, ideal replacements for bush honeysuckle. So the other way to think about natives versus invasives is there's lots of words in the English language. Some of them are really, really descriptive. So why would you use the same four-letter word every time you try to describe something? And so bush honeysuckle kind of falls out as one of those four-letter words. It doesn't really solve what we want it to solve. Native screens that support native pollinators and bird species and nesting and all of that can all achieve the same thing that the bush honeysuckle does. And the reason why the bush honeysuckle is doing so well is because it doesn't belong here. It's taking advantage. It's just a mess.

Dominating but a question is like I does it choke out Bush Is choking it out or is it just so You know bush honeysuckle tends to be an understory shrub.

It never could becomes a hundred and twenty foot tall tree like an oak wood and My assumption would be if your oaks are dying, it may be because of oak wilt or an oak decline. So there's some other pathogens that are making their way. In the United States, we always seem to get bad actors on the east coast, and then they begin to make their way across the country. The best example of that is the emerald ash borer, you know, that's made his way all the way across the country, across the river and is taking out, you know, ash or what, 40% of our natural woodlands in the state of Missouri. They make up 40% and we're well on the way of losing them because of that emerald ash borer. And so the bush honeysuckle, from the standpoint of an oak tree, I can't tell you that I have any experience of loss of an oak tree, but I can tell you that the bush honeysuckle, when it drops its leaves, those leaves, as they decay, release an allelopathic or a natural herbicide into the soil, so they suppress other plants from growing beneath them. So the very plant that was introduced to be helpful for erosion control, kills everything else. And that's why, for example, up here at Budweil, where we've gone in and we've taken out all of the honeysuckle that's in the understory, and we're talking about rebuilding that understory with native forbs and grasses and sedges, that will change the color of the pond, the lake at Budweil. Because every time it rains, it looks like milk chocolate, like chocolate milk, I should say. And that's because that hillside isn't protected because the bush honeysuckle, there's nothing else holding the soil in place, so that soil just comes right down with the water. The other thing to think about, and this is kind of lends toward the new park that you are working on, talking about using natives at the new park, the areas that we've established at Fabic, the big native areas that will go in, as they establish over the next five years, they'll begin to absorb seven to nine inches of rain in an hour. So last time you checked, I think the last 25 years, we maybe only had one or two rains that have been greater than six or seven inches. And those native areas, not only will they take seven to nine inches of rain in the first hour, but they'll take seven to nine inches in the second hour and in the third hour. They're amazing. Mowed lawn is a half inch of rain, period. That's all it gets. The rest of it runs off. And that's why MSD is so worried about water quality. That's why they're so worried about how do you store it? How do you manage it? Because all of our lawns do a lousy job. And why do they do a lousy job? They're green, they're growing. But when you mow your lawn at three and a half inches in height, its root mass is three and a half inches in depth. The areas that we planted with the natives down below at Fabric Reserve, as they come on with it to be an established native planting, those areas will put their roots down six to eight or even 15 feet deep in the soil. And so as those roots go down into the soil, they turn over at a high rate. In other words, it may replace 20 or 30% of its roots at any given year. And as a result of that, the dead roots, nobody goes out, your park staff isn't going back out and filling in those holes from the dead roots. Those dead holes, those dead spaces, those capillary bypasses and macropores remain in the soil, and that's what creates the infiltration. So those native plants that are putting those roots down that deep, they're putting those roots down and they're releasing a sugar into the soil, they're releasing carbon into the soil, that feeds the microbiology. And not to go way down a rabbit hole, but if I told you, if I had a golf ball size handful of really good soil, there's more microbiology, there's more microorganisms in that golf ball worth of soil than there are people on this earth. So that's 8 billion microorganisms in that handful of soil. So good soil is a big deal. And so it all works together, and that's the invasive species, the honeysuckle component of suppressing those natives. And what we find is as those leaves go away and those bushes go away, the natives that were there, which are waiting in seed in the ground in the seed catch, begin to return.

Yeah, so you bring up the Bush Honeysuckle. I kind of have a love-hate relationship with it. I, too, have a large one-acre lot and value my privacy. Three of the sides are all grounded with Bush Honeysuckle behind my property. I do like the idea, like you said, maybe something in an ordinance where when the land's developed, that it would have to be removed because two of the three sides are owned by a developer that possibly may want to build someday. So that's probably a good idea. But like you said, it is all along the fence line. The third side is Rockwood School District. Good luck getting them to do anything. But I do like that it blooms early and stays late. I have a pool, and it creates privacy right away, and it's up, but I do know it's bad, and I kind of hate that. And then the thing about the ash tree, I just had to get two of those removed, so I know how that goes, too. So, yeah, I think maybe the... you know, like you said, going and having a code enforcement guy is not really going to work, but maybe having the incentive and alternatives for people, because, you know, I wouldn't mind, you know, planting that stuff to create that privacy that I enjoy when that honeysuckle is removed. So some other options would be helpful.

Yeah, and I'm happy to work with Nikki and to come up with some stuff for your newsletter and for your website to talk about what are great alternatives, what are great native alternatives. You know, everybody knows green giant arborvitae. They seem to be the evergreen in vogue at the moment. Arborvitae aren't native to Missouri. They are native to Illinois. They're not native to Missouri. We've got very few evergreens that are native to Missouri. But the eastern white pine is native to Virginia. It's not native to Missouri, but, man, it does great here, right? And so there's lots of shrubs, and it all depends on what that height is. And my guess is if you have a pool in your backyard, you're not swimming in the pool in March or November, right?

And so... You'd be surprised with a heater.

Yeah. So, you know, it really is a matter of understanding what your limits are and then saying, okay... Do I need 10 months? Do I need 11 months? Do I need seven months? But we can work with ideal plants, you know, great alternatives to bush honeysuckle, and then it'd be great for PR for you all.

Before we get a little further, Amy, do you just want to kind of give a recap of the proposed changes that we have in 215, just so everybody is on the same page? Again, we did want Chuck to come this evening to kind of explain why invasives are, what they're called, invasives, but just kind of so that there's not any confusion about what the proposed regulations are going to be.

Right. So what we're saying in the new invasive species section is that you can't... We're going by the MDC's invasive species list. So that doesn't necessarily mean that all non-natives would be on that invasive species list. I mean, that does include... You know, we're not... banning the planting of non-native species. It would be a finite list. But what we're saying is if you have honeysuckle on your property and you like it for your privacy, you can keep that honeysuckle on your property. You need to maintain it. You can't let it expand. You can't let it encroach onto your neighbor. And it can't be within five feet of any public property. And that's to protect the areas that we've already done the honeysuckle removal on. So we're not asking anybody to remove what they have existing. We're just asking them to maintain it if they want to keep it and not plant anything new.

And then, Terry, you had your hand up. I did.

I had a question for Chuck. If I can take a little bit more of your time, please. So when we first started this discussion about removing invasive species in the city, my comment at the time was, I'm all for it. In particular, the Bradford pear bothered me because while we were spending money to eliminate these in our park system, any one of our residents could go to a local nursery and purchase one and put it in their yard. And so my point was, what's the point? So has anything been done with the advancement of what these people can offer to residents or to anybody to purchase. Are they thinking in the same way that we're thinking?

So gold star for you. Thank you for leading the conversation. So yes, as a matter of fact, there has something that's been done. And in fairness, the Bradford pear is one of about six or seven varieties of calorie pear that are improved horticulture varieties. Because the straight callery pear has a spur on it that will shred any go-kart or golf cart or tractor tire, right? And so that spur was bred out of the plant, so to speak, in horticultural methods. And a lot of times in horticulture, you take the desired characteristics and you graft it to a hardy rootstock. So when you cut down a Bradford pear, you get the heart, it will sucker from the roots, and the calorie pair comes up. So Bradford is one of about six or seven species or cultivars of calorie pear, and they're all self-sterile. The problem was when the Bradford pears in the 70s and the 80s got finally big enough that they split, the industry, the community, the plant people of the world said, We love the pear. We love its white flowers. We love its fall color. Is there another cultivar that doesn't split like the Bradford does? And the answer, of course, in the horticulture industry was, well, yeah, we've got like six other really cool varieties. The calorie pair you could buy from anywhere from a tree that goes five foot in diameter to 40 foot in diameter, anywhere from 25 feet in height to 40 feet in height. Every one of those cultivars is self-sterile until you put them side by side or within a mile and a half of where a pollinator can get to both flowers and they cross-pollinate. And now all of the fruits that were self-sterile, that weren't viable, now have all become viable. And that's where you see in the last 30 years, the calorie per pair prolificate all over our right-of-ways and in the backyards, right? So in 2023, there were 57 pieces of legislation signed by the governor out of the 2000 something pieces introduced. And of those 57, one of them was called cease the sale. And cease the sale legislation included five species of plants that were, as of January 1st, 2027, no longer allowed to be sold in the state of Missouri. All Calla Repair varieties were on that list, as well as, and this will surprise you, Dwarf Burning Bush. Any of the Euonymus coloratus, the ground cover, which is actually Euonymus fortunii coloratus, Sericea lespedeza, and it seems like there might have been one other one. two other ones. But there was five or six species that were included in that list that the governor signed. I only know that because I helped write that legislation, so it was pretty exciting that we actually got it through. And so that will begin to limit that plant because it's very self-limiting. The other problem with the callery pears are they're susceptible to fire blight, which is a viral infection that you can't really stop. So once they start, we can take you to Chesterfield, and I can show you subdivisions that were all lined with calorie repairs and street trees, and they all now have fire blight, and they're all now being reduced or removed. So, yeah, so there are steps being made on the state level as well as states, you know, methods like you guys are pursuing. Thank you.

So I find this all interesting. So what do you need from us this evening? I think you've kind of highlighted what this amendment to 215 will do. Is there anything else we need to know?

Bruce needs to talk. Okay, I'm sorry. He did all that research.

Thank you. So I, yes, and I know it's a long meeting anyway, so I'll try to be brief, but so first off, I could, I could listen to Chuck all night. I'm a gardener. I'm not a botanist, but I love all to do with plantings. So my reservation I have, I guess the first question I had was that the last time we talked, it was said that no nursery in the state of Missouri would sell invasive plants. but I don't think that's exactly true, at least unless something, there's a noxious weed law from 2011. And then of course the legislation that is yet to go into effect that Chuck talked about, but there's, I think you can still buy things that are technically called invasive species. So I don't know if I'm wrong about that, but that's my research said that. And so, I guess my questions are more to do with this actual legislation. Actually, Chuck had mentioned something that I was going to mention that I much prefer than to mandate people can or can't have a certain type of plant in their yard, in their own property. But if we want to encourage, I think that's just going to build an adversarial condition with people who may want bush honeysuckle. But if you, which I actually don't, I think personally in an urban environment, they're not the threat they are in a state park or a roadway because they are maintained, as Scott said. And I've got property lined, my acre and a quarter is totally lined on two sides with honeysuckles. And to be honest, I like them because they're manageable and, you know, they're they're there, they're free, and they work really well for privacy. But I love the idea of maybe, I do like the fact we're removing the invasives in our stewardship properties where we have to, we have the parks and we're managing that. I totally support removing the invasives and planting naturals and plants But I think the mandate now, here's another thing that I'd like to clarify, because this legislation that Section 095, it uses the term invasive, non-native, exotic plant. MDC, as far as their website, they classify invasive as being non-native and aggressive. And then they also go on to say that some definition of aggressive, some plants are aggressive in some environments and not in others. So it's kind of this, a little bit of a moving target for the definition of invasive as far as that's concerned. And then the, and so that's that. And then also, I don't know if anybody, how many of these, like, The list of invasive species, as far as I can tell, people were talking about the 30 or so on NBC's website, but that's not accurate. The way I read it, in 2019, they adopted the Missouri Invasive Plant Council's list of 142 different species. So I don't know which list we're going by there.

They specifically declared a nuisance.

i'm sorry what it says very species that are declared a nuisance so it's not just all non-native plants it's just right but what is the list because i'm the way i'm reading this legislation that we're this zoning code we're wanting to adopt um the way i'm reading it's going to be that 142 plants of of the Missouri Invasive Plant Council.

No, the MDC has adopted the Missouri Invasive Plant Control Council's list of invasive plant list. And for the entire state, that includes 46 plants. So that's what.

See, that's the other problem I have. I'm sorry. Where do you get that? Because I went on MDC's website and they show about 30, you know, 30 of the most common ones.

We have a link to it right on our newsflash item on our website. I'd be happy to send it to you.

Right. But I'm talking about the average person who wants to do the right thing and thinks they are doing the right thing. And then they plant something and, you know, we don't catch it, I guess, or whatever until five years from now. And it's all part of their landscaping. And now they say, well, that wasn't in existence. And so are they going to have to tear it out? I just think there's a lot of problems with the interpretation. I think the state has a very specific list of noxious weeds. It's 12, and then thanks to Chuck and his efforts, we've got six more, including Cal Repair, which I fully support limiting, that cannot be sold in Missouri anymore. I think we've kind of got in place in Missouri a lot of the limitations that we might want for some of this. I just don't think, I mean, there's, I have a whole bunch of, I'm trying not to drag this out, but I have a, you know, I think first off, the way this is written, the actual definition of what would be considered invasive non-native exotic plant, I don't even know how you would, Where did the exotic come from? Because I haven't seen that identified anywhere. So is it invasive and non-native and exotic?

So can I jump in here and say, Bruce, I don't think anybody's telling you you can't have that or plant it on your property. You just can't let it expand into...

others other people's property or the city's property is that kind of what i'm taking from this legislation and i think so getting lost in the weeds because you're you're i did do a pun didn't i but um getting a little lost in the details where really we're just wanting to start And there's a link on the website that will take the person to the thing. But we can't control each person, and we're not going to have somebody walking around being like, hey, Bruce, you need to pull that plant out. We're not doing that. We're just trying to get started, trying to bring awareness.

If it becomes a nuisance.

Yeah. And we're just trying to get started and create a system where people can try to do the right thing. And we're giving them a resource. They can look. But nobody's going to be going into your backyard and checking what plants you got.

What we have in the city that many people have, and I'm sure... being with council with Maryland Heights. I'm sure you're accustomed to this too. I believe we even have somebody in the audience is what we have is people who do have invasives on their property and they've let them grow wild and we receive complaints and they say, well, this is my vegetation. No, it's not. We're going, it's invasive. You've let it grow. It's continuing to encroach upon your neighbor. It's encroaching on their property. It's encroaching within our right of way. You can drive down Horan and see it. to where it's coming into our right-of-way. You can see it in the areas. And that is what this legislation is proposing, is that it's becoming a nuisance. It's becoming an area where it's creating havens for no different than unkept grass and other things.

So keep your honeysuckle on your side and don't let it encroach on the neighbor. I think that's what I'm reading into this. It's not like you can't have it.

It shall be unlawful for any person to plant cultivate or propagate invasive non-native exotic species period so it is saying that you can't plant you're not planting it bruce you have it no if i wanted to matter of fact this morning again nobody's going to go into your yard and say that looks like a new honeysuckle pull it but They might.

They could if- No, they're not, Bruce.

I think if your neighbors complain, you're going to have an issue. But if you keep it to yourself, then it's not. It's like the bamboo you brought up. You want to plant bamboo, keep it in your yard. Don't let it go in your neighbor's yard, and you'll probably never get it.

And this proposed without Section 095, this already covers that because it's encroaching on other right-of-ways and other personal private property. doesn't matter what the species is that would be that would be not allowed under the rest of that code so i'm going to give robin a chance to talk she hasn't talked yet okay sure of course sorry

I just want to reiterate what you said. Again, it took me two years to get the honeysuckle out of my yard. If you want to keep it or Bruce wants to keep... I'm saying, though, if you like it as a hedge or whatever, it's never going to go away because the birds are always going to redeposit it. However, if my next-door neighbor has... the whole hedge of it and it's grown over into my yard and I've done as much as I can to eradicate it, I think that's what we're dealing with here is that you can't let your honeysuckle grow into my yard. A bird is going to, as you said, it's going to drop some. I have to every once in a while have a few of them removed, but it's much more manageable when I got it all taken care of than it is now. When someone wants to just let it grow wild on your property. And I think it's just a way. And again, we're spending a lot of money and time and effort to eradicate it out of the parks. And we have a lot of property that touches our parks. And if we just let it go crazy, then all of that time and effort and money spent is for nothing because it's just going to grow back.

Well, so to that point though, I've lived right next to that, that, I guess you'd call it bud wheel annex, that the whole back of that property was covered with honeysuckles, which they recently removed most of, although not all. And just as a side note, I do hope something gets planted back in there because I have had lots of flooding problems that comes off that hill and off of that property, and I'm worried. We've had a pretty... mild spring in terms of rains but i've had historic i've had rivers coming down my property and i'm worried that that the ground isn't going to hold the water anymore back there but anyway the point is i've had you know an acre or more of honeysuckles right across the fence and they've never gotten into my yard any further than i let them because i cut them back it's um it's not it's just a management thing the same as mowing your grass or trimming your bushes or anything else like that so I'm, I'm really more about the, it's really more about the freedom. You own a land. Um, the invasive species issue is mostly an environmental movement. It's not, uh, there is some of it that's based on the economy and, uh, and damage and, you know, there's some toxic, uh, plants to cattle and there's things like that. But I think, um, It could be a non-native plant, and as long as it's not considered invasive, it's okay. I just don't see why we would differentiate. I just think if you keep your plants on your property and don't let them overgrow the neighbor, I don't see what difference it makes what species it is.

And then one more, Scott, and then I'm calling it.

Yeah, so to get to that point, I mean, I wasn't advocating that I like the honey. I like the cover that it provides. If there was alternatives, I would be happy with that. I do have to trim back my fence line that is with Rockwood School District every year. It grows over the fence line, and I've taken out, I've gone over there and taken out some really big ones with my chainsaw that are, were just monstrous, the honeysuckle, and to try to combat them coming to my yard. I mean, like I said, the only thing that is good about it is the privacy, the thing, but if there was alternatives, I would be happy with that. And then I forget your name, sir, but do you have any, maybe any idea on this? These invasive species, I know you can buy everything mail order nowadays. Will people from other parts of the country sell to these to Missouri? Are there unscrupulous sellers that will do that?

Right, so part of the legislation, if you're like a Michigan bulb or a white flower farm, kind of catalog burpee seed. if you look at almost any species, there may be a list that says, this product cannot be sold in Ohio, California, Southern Alaska, whatever it might be. So they're very respectful of that. And the seed houses will not move that material to you. The plant houses won't do that. I wanna remind you that a hosta is a non-native plant. But it doesn't meet this criteria because it's not invasive. So it's got to be non-native. It doesn't attract a lot of deer. Well, if you're like me and you have hosta, it looks like you're growing celery about this time of year. So non-native invasive exotic species kind of check all the bars. And I think it's important that you all understand that there's also a difference between a noxious weed and an invasive weed. A noxious weed by the Department of Agriculture means that every agency in that state has to make an effort to get rid of that weed. Things like teasel and thistle and multiflora rose. Those are several plants. I think there's 11 species in the state of Missouri that have been elevated to noxious weed. So Bush honeysuckle, calorie repair, haven't made that list yet, right? But the state is required to go after that, unless you're in St. Louis County, and then MoDOT doesn't seem to pay attention.

All right. Chuck, thank you so much. I kind of feel like we've covered a lot of the topics, and I think it's just time to make that motion to, I'll make that motion to,

Can I say one more thing? Susan, I'm sorry.

Wait, we have a motion. We need a second.

I'm sorry.

Alderman Lange? Second. Motion by Joker, second by Lange. Further discussion. Go ahead.

Yes. So I guess the alternative that Chuck was talking about, I completely support. To the end of the month.

Okay, go ahead, Bruce.

OK, yeah. So I guess what I would see as a better option, what Chuck was saying, a couple of possibilities would be instead of banning the planting of something as vague as invasive species, if we would, say, offer a service to any private property, we would remove it for them, make them aware that it is invasive.

We can't do that to private property, Bruce.

Well, you can if they violate the code. I'm saying if they violate the code and they don't remove it, then we can come on and do it for them. So I don't understand why they couldn't do it voluntarily.

And or the second possibility is what they're- They're all saying it's due process, Bruce. City attorney, do you want to explain that, please?

Yeah, I mean, as when you declare something a nuisance, the state law does give you multiple different statutes, the authority to declare certain things, actually even a half mile off your city limits. No one does that, but technically you're allowed to do that. half mile off your city limits. So what do you define that as? Then you do. The statutes are very clear. Depending on if it's grass and weeds, you have to give at least four days. If it's another nuisance house, you have to give 10 days or more reasonable opportunity for them to cure it. We have a very generous process when we actually first give a notice of violation. Let's know of that give them usually more time than the statute allows to cure those. If they do not do that, then you actually give another notice, give them more time to cure it, and also set a nuisance hearing. That's where the process comes in. We are not allowed to do anything, but we actually have a process where they can put on testimony. We have to put on testimony under oath and prove whether or not there is a nuisance. Once there is a nuisance declared, we actually then have to issue findings of fact, conclusions of law, and give them additional time to actually abate that only after, and you have to give them notice within that. If they do not abate it, you actually then do have the right to get an administrative warrant and go onto the property and put a lien on their property. So they get multiple, multiple steps in action and ability to participate before you. Anyway, so Bruce.

What about the, to follow the example of the Cal repair buyback where we would, we would offer a free, free plants to whoever that would remove invasives. We won't go on the property, but we could offer these native species available for free because I think that's going to build a lot more awareness and attention in a very positive light if people are saying, oh, the city will give you a new this bush or that bush. if you just take, get rid of your honeysuckles, which they're kind of griping about anyway. So I think I don't, I just prefer that approach to, uh, to an adversarial mandate with a code that's unenforceable really.

So, okay.

Okay. Well, that's, that's all I got more, but that's all I got for now.

So I appreciate your input and I, um, And we motion. Oh, okay.

There is a motion. There is a second. Do we have further discussion? Let me point out, Bruce, when you come back in town, maybe you could sit with Amy and you still have till the end of the month and, you know, before it's brought to the full vote of the board.

Okay. Thank you. All in favor.

Hang on a minute. Hang on a minute.

We don't, we don't actually.

Committee.

There's only two.

No. Rogers is.

There's three of us. You're right. We're good.

Yeah.

Okay. So we have a motion and a second.

Okay.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

Aye.

Are you opposing, Bruce?

Yes, I'm opposing.

Okay. We have one in opposition. Jane? All right, thank you so much. We have some other guests in the room. We don't want you to leave, though, Chuck. We've got a couple other... Should we do the finish up? I'm sorry, do the clean stream, and then we've got some guests that will go into parks.

So this is our yearly request for the 2026 Operation Clean Stream event, where we usually... donate two city employees and a backhoe and a skid steer to assist with this event. This is just something we do every year. And I make that motion to do that.

Yeah, I think it fulfills our obligation with MSD. Yeah. Okay. You're going to make that motion? All right, Alderman Lang. Are you second? Second. Motion by Jokers, second by Lang. Further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Thank you. Alderman Heals.

Thank you, sir, you may just start from the top you can start. It go down to the special events at the bottom, I believe that everybody in attendance is here regarding that well and this young man. Final 3.

Consideration request by Tiffany eddie for a special event in spent in city Park see memo from Dan Howard. Michelle, did you want to?

Michelle is, I believe, the last one for Washington.

Oh, I'm sorry. Tiffany, is Tiffany here?

I do not believe so. Okay. Okay. And it appears that this individual is requesting a special event to hold a birthday party with anticipated, with 50 people anticipated in shelter one on August 2nd, 2026. The reason for the special event request is that he would like to include two bounce houses, which anytime you have an amusement device, it does require board approval. If approved, she would need to provide the needed permits and insurance.

And that has not been provided, correct?

At this time, it has not. But I think they're waiting to see if they're going to be approved before applying for that.

And I wish she was here just to ask the question. I know that when sometimes when there's bounce houses that they really do need an attendant because there's too many kids that get in there. There's kids that don't take their shoes off. There really should be someone there that is monitoring that there aren't too many children in there and that they've gone through the proper safety.

But is that our call? If somebody's throwing a birthday party, is that really the board's call?

That's the reason we require that they sign off their liability, and we require them to get insurance.

But is that our call to say, and we also want you to have an attendant?

Yeah, I think the insurance is going to cover that. As long as I get the insurance.

We can say we highly suggest, but I don't think that we can require that.

Well, so far they don't have the needed permits or the insurance, so...

Well, right now what it is, you would approve it. It would be contingent on they would have to provide insurance. They're not asking for a waiver from this board. And I doubt that the board would provide a waiver for the insurance on a bounce house. So if approved, then they will have to get a permit. It actually has to go through Amy's department and then go to St. Louis County for the permit for the bounce house.

And on top of that- I think we've done this before. We've had bounce houses and slides and stuff and everything.

I will make a motion.

Just a quick question. I'm sorry. They don't need any special facilities or concrete pad or power or anything like that for this bounce house? Is it something that they could if somebody got hurt that they could hook the city on because we had some substandard something we were providing?

There's power at the shelter already, correct?

Yes, that's why when they rent the shelter, there's the waiver of liability that they have to sign. In addition to that, they have to provide us insurance and they show us as additional.

Right. Okay. Well, that's, I'm just curious. Okay. Thank you.

I would like to make a motion to approve this request with the caveat that they get their necessary insurance intact.

Alderman Mazerang? I'll second. Motion by Hill, second by Mazerang. Further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Motion carries.

Consideration request by save St. Louis for special events in Fenton City Park and a memo by Dan Howard. This one is for pickleball. You rent the pickleball courts from Oh, yes, we do have someone here. This is to rent the pickleball courts from June to September, basically.

yeah I was contacted by Candace Siebert we rented out for the first six months of the year and so we were trying to go the next six months but she was saying that since there's such a large number of people that it's a special event so just to get approval for that I did fill out a special event permit and in the application so you've already been doing Yeah, so we talked to, I believe you guys are familiar with Candice Siebert, is that correct? And so we were doing it for the first six months that we did rent it out. And so we talked, it filled out all the paperwork and stuff. But since I think there was such a large number of people, they wanted to get further approval for the rest of the year.

So how many people did you have initially?

Probably 30 to 40. Now it's probably up from 70 to 80.

Yeah, last time I think we heard there was like 91 individuals.

Give or take, it depends on the weekend.

That's a big give or take.

What I couldn't quite get is, is this a camp?

No, so we have a ministry, and we host a lot of, or we do a lot of community events. And so they suggested we do it at Fenton City Park because of how many pickleball courts you guys have, and it's a great park. And so they started gathering, and it started accumulating a lot of people.

And it's all for youth.

What's that?

And it's a youth group.

Yeah, it's a young adult. It's anywhere from 20 to age 20 to 35. Yep.

What it is is that we only allow for the rental of four courts of the eight. With the size of event they're having, it's become exclusive rights are used by the group on those evenings. Therefore, really nobody else is able to utilize the courts during that time. What would you say your time span is there on a Sunday afternoon?

6 to 8 p.m.

So 6 to 8 p.m. So, I mean, this really touches what this needs to be a special event. It is every Sunday is that what they're requesting. But although they do rent the four courts just by the sheer size of the group being what we would deem to be a special event over 75 people and the fact that it does basically create a situation where it's exclusive rights to our courts to where nobody else is able to during that time, they need to obtain a special event permit in order to continue this.

Yeah.

Has there been anybody, any complaints about not getting use of the courts from others?

The alderman have indeed received that.

And the other part is when the pickleball courts were created, we specifically left, I mean, there were four rental, but we specifically left some that were available for first come first serve to keep them open so that there would potentially be an open court at any given. I mean, even if you played for an hour, there'd still be an open court, maybe an hour later, this just ties up all of them and eliminates that open court play.

We limit like you can only use the four courts.

Even if with that many people, with the four courts, it's still a large group.

I think the biggest problem that you see is that you have a mass of a large group, but they have a time slot for months on end. If it was once in a while, I would get it, but we get a lot of complaints. I have gotten complaints about the Sunday evening program because people come and anticipating wanting to play and they've got to sit it out and there's just an enormous amount of people.

But can we just say, you might have to limit how many people?

Well, I think for me, limiting the number of Sundays That's the way to go. I think it's unfair to other groups who may want to pick one Sunday and have rent four courts for a tournament or something, but not every Sunday for months.

I'm going to reiterate that, too. The people in our residence paid to build those courts, right? And to tell them for four months out of the year they're not able to use them on Sunday nights, it's not going to happen.

If you work Monday through Friday, Sunday night might be a good time for you to get them. And it's cooler. So either you limit how many people actually use the court, You know, that you keep them on the four courts.

Yeah, are they saying... I'm just wondering how they're determining that our people are the ones that are using the other four courts that are supposed to be open. Is that what they're implying?

I don't know if they're implying that, but I know there's a large number, a large gathering on those evenings. And again, for me, it's a consistent every Sunday for months.

Like once a month?

I mean... we ensure that we have other activities other than pickleball so that the people waiting have something else to do, that they're not just playing pickleball on the end of the courts. We have football, frisbee, and spikeball, that stuff that they're just doing the actual part.

I think that's why we have in place the gathering, the large gathering, the 75 and up because it does become a gathering and Yeah, not everybody can be pickleball, but at the same time, you're doing another activity over here.

If there's a way to ensure that we only use the four and made that obvious... We'd love to continue being there, but, I mean, if it is to a point where it's a problem that all four of those courts are used every Sunday, then we can find somewhere else to go.

That's okay. I can tell you, before the sun comes up, there are people down there waiting to play.

Yeah, I'm sure they will.

I mean, today in the heat, 3 o'clock when I went by, I mean, it was almost, you know, there was no other rooms to play the game, so...

There's... Say, try it for a month.

Again, I think tying up for one group for a month, four months, five months, that's not why we built these courts. So everybody, if it was one time, I could get it. But continuously, I don't think it's fair to the taxpayers.

Okay, so this requires a motion, so I will make that motion at this time.

Okay, we need a second. What is the motion?

To not consider allowing them to tie up the courts for four months at a time every Sunday night. It's kind of a prime time, 6 to 8 p.m., which is when, like you said, people who work in the summertime, especially during this time where it does cool off. So my motion is do not allow it.

Okay. Alderman Bright-Shaft? I'll second that motion. We have a motion by Hules, a second by Bright-Shaft. Do we have further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Keep up the good work, though. Thank you. I appreciate you guys.

Thank you.

Bruce voted no.

Bruce, how did you vote?

No, I voted yes.

I'm sorry.

All right. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Next consideration request by WashU Center for Rare and Undiagnosed for a special event and food truck in Fenton City Park. We've got a memo from Dan Howard and we have Michelle on the line. If you'd like to speak on your event.

Hi, everyone. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. So I work for the WashU Center for Rare and Undiagnosed. patient population and I'm a nurse navigator. And the event actually isn't run by WashU. It's those WashU employees that are kind of running the event. But it is the, it would be our first run walk for patients and families who are affected by rare disease. So there's over 200,000 people who have rare diagnoses and are undiagnosed and one in 10 people are affected by rare diseases. We want to invite local advocacy groups that have communities like within the St. Louis region to come and join this run walk. We would expect maybe 50 attendees and probably 15 volunteers. With that, it would be nice to have one food truck, maybe a coffee truck. Sometimes there's a bubble bus. This is kind of a mixed population of pediatric patients and adults. But I have more connections with peds, so I would assume more pediatric families would come. We would also like to have maybe an emcee with some music at the run walk. And then the point of the run walk is to build community for these families and, again, raise awareness around rare disease, rare disorders, that type of thing.

I'm curious as to where in the park, like it doesn't say you're going to be at the main pavilion or where, where is the food truck going to be? Where's the, am I missing that?

So I'm imagining we'd want to use the big pavilion, right. That's by the playground. And then, but there's not really, do they, I don't usually see the food trucks there. But I, I, would want it probably there by like the that parking lot that's kind of adjacent to it where the um the like softball or baseball pavilion is kind of like in between um has anybody been where they do like the murph um that they offer like on labor day are you guys familiar with that there's like a murph truck

I think if you're so inclined to do this, I think Dan can work out all the event, you know, where the truck is better suited because they usually have their own power and all.

So, yeah, as stated, this event is to, you know, because the total anticipated attendance, I believe, is 75 people, but they are asking also for food trucks, bubble bus, music, and a DJ. So, again, it will be critical to know what day is going to be selected to know what other events are happening in the park on that day. The next question is going to be, will you be able to provide the needed insurance for the city? So. Or requesting a waiver for insurance. And I apologize. We do a waiver. You're asking for a waiver on the insurance.

Yes. We would work with a big run. A company. And we kind of like throw these run walks all the time. Like I said, this is our first one. And so they do have waivers that they would provide for us. And the. The anticipated date.

Because it sounds like this is for a walk run. So you're pretty much wanting to use the paths in the park to hold the walk.

Exactly.

Yes. But the one consideration though, the one thing I will note again about the food trucks, the DJ, all of that is that we've had this discussion before. If you invite the food truck into, we can have no say over who comes up to the food truck to use the food truck. Individuals in the park, it can't be limited to just the event.

Yeah, I think that's fine.

I'm sure they would have no objections.

And there's no, with the run walk, there's no waiver on sovereign immunity. We require sovereign immunity for every event. And then so, but we do allow that for some applicants, they can come and ask for a waiver. And depending on, you know, like bounce houses, I don't think the city has a history of granting waivers and stuff like that. But on ones where maybe the risk is low, where it is just a walk-run and there aren't any other events. There's other things. What, Nikki?

I'm saying that with the addition of amenities, so.

Yeah.

But I think there's some confusion on the waiver. You're saying that you would be able to obtain the needed insurance? Or that you're asking for us to waive the required insurance?

I can't answer that question. So do you provide insurance?

Or is it something we would have to get ourselves? Erin, do you want to kind of explain the required insurance?

Well, we require the sovereign immunity limit. So we usually require general liability insurance in the city to be named additional CERD, which we have said is 3,500,000.

Yeah. So our insurance requirements is over $3 million of insurance, of liability insurance.

And I would imagine this is something WashU is familiar with.

Yes.

But she's saying... Yeah, it's not being hosted by WashU.

So, I mean, this may be something that if we need to provide additional time to look to, or to find out if you would be able to obtain the... and maybe work with Dan to provide a more detailed scale of the event of the locations that would be utilized, you know, where you'd be asking to have the food trucks, asking to have the bubble bus, different things like that within the park.

It looks like this is scheduled for September, so we've got some time. The date says September 12th, so we've got.

It says or the 19th.

Or the 19th, if not available.

So it appears that it would be held in September.

So we've got some time, so I think I just may, if you could possibly get that information, Michelle, and then work with Dan. Or Candace. Or Candace, that would be great to see if we could get the insurance done.

Yeah, because there's tournaments going on there sometimes, and I want to check those dates. We're up to date at the same time.

So I would just continue this so we get more.

OK, does Michelle have the contact information she needs?

Yes, as far as Michelle, you know to get in contact with our parks department and either work with Dan or Candace regarding the event and just kind of come up with, go over what the request is for the areas of the park. And then they can also walk you through the requirements of insurance so that.

Okay, so then my question for you is, Because I can't reserve anything until I have confirmed dates, which would be September 12th. That's kind of the date we're shooting for, which sounds like that would work for you as well.

Would you go ahead and allow Dan to go ahead and do a reservation or a hold on that for that day until they go through the process?

Yeah.

Okay. Temporary.

I don't see anybody opposed to them having the event as just getting all the needed.

It's not an opposition to the event itself. It's just the fact that we have the unknown about the insurance and those things.

There's no baseball or softball tournaments going on. Correct.

So I can, I mean, it requires a motion. I can make a motion that we hold September 12th tentatively with the understanding that we need to have insurance provided for that date. And there's nothing else.

That would be wonderful. Do you want to make that a final so it doesn't come back or?

But will it still come back to the board for final approval? Oh, okay, for now. Yeah, let's go ahead and make that a final tonight. And I would suggest that the 12th or other date as discussed with Parks, because they may say the 12th is out, but you could do it on, say, the 19th. Okay. Okay.

That is a final.

Okay. Alderman Lange? Second. Motion by Huell, second by Lange. Further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you, Michelle.

If you could just get with Dan or Candace, that would be great. Okay, thank you. Okay, next, I'm going to go, I'm going to jump around so we can get Chuck out of here. Consideration request to apply for funds under the MDC Community Conservation Assistant Program for Fabic Nature Preserve. We have a memo from Nikki.

We did. Back here. to apply for the MDC Community Conservation Fund for the nature preserve that is what we'll be applying. Sorry, I have two different grants. I always get the two confused.

Consideration of a quote for restroom and proposed native landscape design.

So we're just taking advantage of the fact that Chuck's here because it's so entwined with so many different things that we're doing. So this is that staff is requesting to apply for funding through the Missouri Department of Conservation Assistance. This would involve for this year's round because we've applied every year. We've stayed within Fabic Lake. When I apply to Missouri Department of Conservation, I like to stay in the areas where we have the Cap Lakes. We have other items going on in that area. And in speaking with Chuck, I think what we're looking at is doing about another 50 feet around Presler Lake of invasive species removal. This would include both the treatment by Chuck and his team and then the forestry cutting services behind it. I don't know if anybody's had the chance to go up to Presler recently to see what work has been done so far.

I took our trail that we walked through the woods and I turned around and looked at someone and I turned back around and I was like... Am I on the right trail? Yes.

So we're wanting to go essentially another 50 feet back from where we are currently around that to open this up and continue to fight with the honeysuckle that's within those areas. I mean, that is a large area of honeysuckle. So this would be what we'd be applying for this year. And this is, I believe, so the estimated cost to do all of it is around 23,375. We never want to max over 25,000 that we asked from MDC to get a better chance of receiving it, but it's a 50% reimbursement.

Anyone have any questions? Okay, I would make a motion that we absolutely apply for that grant with the Missouri Department of Conservation.

But if I don't get a final that is a final old man bright yet, yes, I would absolutely a second that we have a motion by Hill second by bright yet further discussion on favor.

Motion carries next we have to let us apply for funds in the Missouri Department of Conservation community forestry cost your program for tree surveys and favorite nature preserve in Westside Park again we have a neck memo from Nikki okay.

And again, we're asking, I've received an estimate. I believe that that was sent to you as a separate document. I apologize. The minute the packets went out is when I received it. I've been waiting on an estimate from Davie Tree Service So, and this is at a 75% reimbursement. It's for $22,350. And that is to do a survey of both the west side and certain areas of Fabic in order for us to start establishing arboretums. So Davey would come in and do a tree survey of all of the trees, give us similar to the one that we had them do throughout the city and our right-of-way, those, then we have that list. then the next step is the next year we start working with Chuck to actually establish the arboretums in both of those parks. And that would be at 75% reimbursement. So I'm just asking for permission to apply for the grant.

Okay, I would make a motion, a final motion tonight to apply for the grants for the Missouri Department of Conservation for the Tree Services and Fabric Nature Preserve and

Alderman Jokers. Second. Motion by Hill, second by Jokers. Further discussion? All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion carries.

Thank you, Chuck. Okay, now I'm going back up to the top. Announcements from the Park and Recreation Committee. Do we want Chuck? No, we still want Chuck. Oh, I'm sorry. Which one?

Can we go to the consideration of a quote for the restroom and proposed native landscape design for Stonegate Park?

Sure, consideration of a quote for restroom proposed native landscape design for Stone Gate Park. Memo from Nikki.

And what I have within the memo is the actual final, the estimate, I apologize, the final estimate for the new restroom for Stone Gate Park. They're finalizing the engineered plans. I'm requesting that the board consider going ahead to approve this. We would be waiving our bidding procedures because we're going to use the same manufacturer that we did for the one up in Fabic. so that we can go ahead and create the ordinance to approve the purchase of the bathroom however we will not ask the mayor to execute that until we are ready to order because this will be very time sensitive as to when the plans will go out to bid when we're going to start construction it takes about three months 90 to 30 days or 90 to 120 days to actually manufacture it They will hold it on site for another month to two months if need be before delivering it. But it'll be very time sensitive. We can't order it too soon, but we can't order it too late. So I'd like to just go ahead and have the approval for the purchase of the restroom available when we're ready to order, have the mayor execute the agreement and provide it to the manufacturer.

Just for... I don't know. We have not had any problems with this. You know, like the windows aren't coming out.

I'm not aware of any. I've kind of looked at it.

You know what I mean? Like before we order another one.

The only question that I have is both of these that we're going to discuss a little bit later at Fenton City Park and at Stonegate. There's a price difference and they look to be exactly the same. There is. Is there a difference?

The one in Fenton City Park is flood-proofed.

Thank you.

Yep.

They're identical except for the flood-proofing.

Good.

And what this will entail with that is one item I think staff will want to look at and work with the manufacturer is, and I'm open to feedback, but I mean, I don't know that we've been that impressed with going with the stainless steel fixtures that we did as far as the toilets in those restrooms and how they look and the cleanliness of how they appear up in Budweil. So, and maybe going back to the porcelain, which would be the standard, that would be a cost reduction.

And this will include the native planting up there.

That is the next topic why we made Chuck stay for one more item. This is it. Is that Chuck did help staff and assist staff with coming up with the native design for up at Again, we would like to incorporate this into our construction plans to inform that we don't want them just coming in and doing seed and straw when it's completed. We want to be working with the team to start getting natives planted up there twofold. Number one, creating no-mow zones, starting from scratch to where we're going to have areas that are going to be natives. We're not going to be mowing consistently a bunch of additional parkland. Step two is we would love to include these plans with our ongoing trying to get approval from MSD because guess what this provides? Stormwater control. It helps us with getting issued with MSD instead of doing what you call amended soils, which sometimes can be a joke. I think we all believe in that with the amended soils along the path that we're actually providing true onsite stormwater control by the planning of natives. So that's what we were looking at. And with the native plan, if I could, I should have put them as two separate items. If we could get a final on that so I can get that over to the engineer this evening, the bathroom will have to come to the board as an ordinance for approval. Any questions you have for Chuck about the native sign? And what the deer do and do not like? I know you like to talk.

Let us have it.

It was very dangerous. So I would say if in your packets, I think you've got the plan and there's two planes, right? So the blow up of the pathway with the ADA trail that takes you down to the little pond. So that's kind of designed as a sensory garden. And so because it's ADA accessible, that plant material there, it will either be sensitive to the touch, aromatic to the touch. So try to incorporate that kind of material. And in addition, the plant material that's around the pond is unique kind of aquatic stuff, whereas the stuff that's up on the walkway is much more dry or glade species. So, you know, one of the fun things about Missouri is we have like seven major different types of flora, depending on dry rocky to wet bottom land. And Benton gives us the opportunity to almost uniquely portray all seven of those populations. And so from an education standpoint and a diversity of plant material standpoint, It's a rare opportunity, right? And so the things that we're doing down at Fabic, that plant material, those species are not repeated 100% up on top of the hill. That will go in the seed mix on top of the hill, and they'll be different than the plants that get put in and around the pond. So again, it's about diversity. It's about opportunity to teach and for your public to look And the whole walkway is designed for those folks to be able to walk in and go, oh, my gosh, look at that. That's a paradox sunflower or coneflower. That's really cool. I've never seen a yellow one. I want that at my house. And so that's the whole purpose and the whole design of that.

Anyone else? Okay, I will make a final motion that we go with the restroom and the native landscape planting.

I like second we have much more he'll second by Lang for the decision.

Yes, sir. Chuck one question that I should have asked you why you're already standing up so the walkway stop short of the pond obviously the I'm trying to envision the plants between the end of the walkway in the pond is it going to obscure what the pond seeing the pond you know the pounds Aaron and then what is it going to be big enough that folks are going to want to just go through everything and get to the water. We hope they don't, but...

I'm the plant guy. I'm not the reduce people from jumping in guy. You know what I'm saying? So I think there's probably a level of detail that's going to need to be perfected at the end of that walkway, whether that's a rail with a rope or, you know, there's going to need to be some type of method if there's an overlook or a boardwalk or a... a doc or something, right, to integrate you into that environment. I think that's why I'm making it ADA available. So if you get down there at the end of that ramp with your wheelchair and there's not a curb at the end, it could be a wet afternoon. So I'm thinking that detail is going to come in from the landscape park at the engineer.

So there's a possibility that we may need to change the very end of that walkway to a circle with maybe some fencing around it or even roping around it so people know when you get there, you turn around and go back.

And we're still working with our engineer on the final design of the pond. We are. We are. We're just right now, again, we're trying to get it out for bid, but there are going to be some fine detail items that will have to be addressed and checked. But we would like to get this to them so they can, A, include it with their stormwater, but B, so that everybody, the two parties can start working together.

But we could do poison ivy at the end of the pond. We got plenty of that. That's invasive.

All in favor? Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. You can hang around. Thanks, Chuck.

Okay, I'm going to go back up to the top.

Sorry, where are we going now?

To the top.

Oh, okay. Sorry, I was lost for a second.

Announcements from the Parks and Recreation Committee Tree Advisory Board. The committee discussed reorganization of the Parks and Recreation Committee Tree Advisory. No action was taken. Basically, what I told them was... Basically, what I... explained to them was what the board had said the last time we met, that what is the vision you'd like to see? Do you want this to be a tree advisory? Do you want this? And they're gonna come back with their ideas. So, to be continued. The Parks and Recreation Committee Tree Advisory Board recommended the following. Approval to add security cameras, signage indicating there is a security camera, and motion lights for the pickleball courts in Fenton City Park. What this is, is it's not really pickleball courts. The parking lot, as we've discussed, gets really dark, especially when the lights go out for pickleball. If you play till 11 o'clock, the lights go out, and you're walking to your car, that side of the parking lot is very dark. They thought it would be helpful because they come so early in the morning that it would be motion activated. So when they come in the morning and it's dark, that the lights would come on.

Well, the third night were to discourage late night usage.

Well, that too. But that was also mentioned. And doesn't the pick the camera at the main pavilion kind of pick it doesn't. Okay.

Are we having vandalism?

Yeah, a lot of their concern is that they say there's been broken paddles. There's been other items that they've found in them.

Paddles are there.

No, we don't.

People break the paddles and leave them.

Yep. So it was reported.

So this is in maintenance. If somebody needs to clean up the pickleball court.

And there has been some questions on why it is that the pickleball court, unfortunately, we don't have an overnight monitor that can get the June bugs off before they start at 6 a.m. Our employees don't come in until 7 a.m. And they have to start with the bathrooms.

And they have to pick up the empty water bottles and Gatorade bottles that people leave behind.

It was mentioned at the park meeting, if you look at the video, that there was one individual who had concerns that when they'd come in in the morning, there'd be seeds, sunflower seeds all over and debris and everything. And I have to tell you, I started going up there early in the morning before they got started. I even ran into the individual And I said, how are things going? And every morning I really don't see a whole lot of debris or, or anything. I think, you know, you just have to encourage people to pick up their own trash, but really didn't see a whole lot. I didn't see the seeds. I just don't know how we, we can't leave a blower there. That'll be gone. You know, our broom will be gone or they break them, but I didn't see a whole lot of debris the mornings that I went there before they started play.

I also don't think that leaving a broken pickleball paddle or sunflower seeds is a camera offense that you, who would you report it to?

Anywhere you go early, we go to walk paths, my kids, you maybe have to throw trash away. It's kind of, you know, you're going to use public parks. This is how it works.

Susan?

The only thing I would, well, one, sorry, I know this is tennis, but we... I have to squeegee a quart of water. Like, yeah, you do. So, you know, yeah, you're going to have to clean up the court if you want to. I had that request, too. What?

I had the request.

Oh.

Come on. I'm just saying. But as Alderman Hills was stating, is that we do have an issue, though, with some lighting down there. That we can state was at the parking lot. Now, this isn't a the fact that right now we do have some Ameren lights that are out there and Ameren is addressing that. But we are working on getting a quote from Sorry, that's tonight.

You know, where the ball field and the pickleball court is, even with the lights on the ball field and the pickleball courts, that parking lot is dark and there's no light. So later on, we're going to talk about that. But I think the other part of it, Robin, I wasn't at the meeting, but I looked at it. They're wanting a motion detector light for the lights to come on on the court after hours to discourage, is that the way I understood it, people from going there?

But I think we can put up a sign, please be courteous, leave the courts as you found them or better. You know, just leave no trace or even leave less trace.

How about putting up a sign, wink, wink, that says security cameras are in use? I mean...

But, like, clean up after yourself, people. You know, and...

If you would like lights and security cameras, you can have a pickleball court in your backyard.

And bring, like, I would bring a broom to the courts if it was rainy, so I could, like...

Again, I just haven't seen, and I probably go by there every night. I haven't seen an issue. I haven't seen the problem. But if we do have a problem, maybe we need to revisit it or have a police officer go down there on occasion.

I think put up a sign of, please be courteous to all and pick up after yourself, if not pick up more.

We're going to have more signs down there than the law allows. We provide them a trash can, right? Yeah.

Like, I'm sorry, this is not the Ritz-Carlton Pickleball Court. This is a public court that, yes, you might have to do a little work.

We asked that the-

The problem is that, let's say that you get finished playing at 11 o'clock and you've left your pickleball paddle and your sunflower seeds and everything else, the police driving through the parking lot is not going to see that stuff laying on the pickleball court until the next person comes in. It's actually the first person who plays in the morning that's really the problem for. After that, it's cleaned up.

Well, I was more asking because... I think Jay Ahrens was lying that people were hitting signs and breaking signs with the pickleball pass.

They did. They did.

I didn't see it either.

They've been replaced.

Right. But has it been ongoing or just one occurrence?

It, I mean, it did happen, but they've been replaced. And again, the police would have to have really good timing to catch them doing that. And again,

Okay, what are you going to do?

Well, I mean, I don't think we need a camera down there. I just don't.

I think the consensus is that there was no justification.

Exactly. How much is a camera?

I'd have to look, but probably around $4,500.

I'd like to see what the new lights in the parking lot will help do.

Right, exactly.

Let's put up a sign of please pick up after you're done.

Okay. Okay. Next is consideration quotes for Coleman Pavilion Repairs and Painting. We have a memo from Nikki.

As a reminder, though, that will automatically go to the board meeting because it was a recommendation, so you'll have the chance to just either approve it or deny it. Right. Correct.

And we can also come up and volunteer to clean up the place.

I mean, some avid pickleball volunteer to maintain the park. I'm in pavilion.

Yes, on the Coleman Pavilion, this is just one when we were looking at all of the other pavilions throughout the, sorry, throughout the park system when we were doing painting and all of the repairs, we did notice that the Coleman Pavilion kind of unfortunately off the beaten path and not given our full attention is in desperate need of, we were looking at getting a change order I apologize, sorry. We were looking at getting a change order for painting on the painting for the parks contract that we had for Voorhees. We continue this as we did our other shelters, but when we went there, we found that there was damage to the pavilion, so we had to get the roofer to come in to get us a quote on that before we could bring both items forward. Erin, if you would prefer, I mean, we could get additional, but this would just be a change order to the contract for the exterior painting for the parks. then also, and we did get with Jeffco Roofing, who is doing the roofing of all of our other pavilions, or all of our other facilities throughout the parks with these changes, to address, as you can see, the louvers, the hoopla area that is not in great shape.

That was cute, but what if we were to just a normal peak?

Not as much.

Would that be outrageous?

I think that could be pretty expensive. You'd have to redo the whole roof trusses.

You'd have to rebuild. Yeah, I think that's structural. That cupola is built into the structure with the trusses. I think you'd be putting a whole new structure on the top. Or reframing the whole roof. I don't know what he's saying.

It kind of looks like, based on this picture, that the suggestion of gutter guards is a pretty good idea as well.

Yes. That's, if you go around back, even though we have had the tree trimmed up since that photo was taken. I apologize. I was lazy. Well, you're gone. Yeah. Well, not the one right next to the building, though. It needs to be. Yeah. And we can further discuss that.

So, Alderman Breitshaft, with your expertise, do you want to speak to the cupola issue? eliminate it or rebuild it?

Well, when I first went and looked at it, when we talked about it, you and I, about what you and Nikki saw, I thought about going with something all metal and more durable and last. But the fact that they can replace it and keep it as it is for that amount of money, I think that's a pretty good. my estimation. I do have a question, though, because it seems like the material they're going to use, this is color to match existing, and then Voorhees is going to charge us to paint it. According to their specter, does that paint it?

Yeah, no. We'll get that amended. One or the other is going to go away because Voorhees wasn't aware of the changes that he was going to propose. So my understanding is he's using a material. We'll probably select the color. The color selection committee will have to get together and make a... And then what we'll do is we'll pick the color. And so most likely we'll have Voorhees delete that off. It sounds like the material he's using, we won't want to paint.

I would do that first. Yep.

And let me throw a wrench in this. So to me, it looks like that one corner is sinking. On the roof? The structure, back corner. If you go down there and physically look at it.

Yep.

Have you noticed that, Terry?

I didn't get that close, Joe.

Yeah. But we can have superior commitment. Yeah, I think we should at least. Okay.

Do you think the whole structure is sinking?

I think the one corner looks like it towards the riverside. It could be an optical illusion, and then maybe it isn't because the one pad in that corner has dropped significantly.

You just didn't have one of your shoes on.

You could be right there.

I got pictures last spring where that was underwater, so it's possible that anything is being undermined.

Can we do that? I don't think anybody hasn't.

Yeah, we can absolutely have, we know we just recently used Superior to come in to look at the Merrimack. We can, if they can come in and take a look at them before we move forward in the route. So, but I mean, if you're fine to go ahead and approve the change orders, we can always work with those, but we know that we'll want to have Superior look at the building before we start.

Did you want the decision about gutter guards now or?

Yes, I would request that those be included with the roof repairs. It would be by the same company.

All of them in Rogers?

Yes. To me, it doesn't make sense to move forward with any of the cosmetic stuff until we know it's structurally sound. I agree. Just looking at this picture, it does look like that right side is a little bit lower than just referencing the flagpole. I mean, if it's structurally failing, the whole structure may need to be replaced, and then you wouldn't need any of the other stuff. Get rid of the cupola.

And this was built through the Land Water Conservation Fund, so it will be replaced.

I don't know how quickly it would be to get somebody out there, but I think, personally, I think we ought to answer that question before we approve any other repairs on it.

We can do that, yeah.

So do you want to continue this? Yeah.

I also don't see under the roofing. I think if you do the cupola, you probably should reshingle the thing too.

You're going to need a whole new roof.

How old the roof shingles are?

I don't know if that was replaced in the 15th flood. I believe it was.

Because whatever they do up there, they're going to get into those shingles and then whatever they replace isn't going to match anyway.

I know many of those were replaced after the 15th.

So do you need a motion or do you want me is to continue when she is I say we're going to continue to lie and I'll get additional information the contractors have plenty of other things going on. I will continue it thank you. Next item up regarding quotes for a new restroom in Fenton City Park, we have another memo from Nikki.

Okay, for the restroom in Fenton City Park, as the mayor stated, I've provided the actual formal quote for the bathroom itself that shows all of the numbers as it would be if we were to approve the bid. I think this is the number we've already discussed in the past. Just kind of gives you a more formalized written statement on that. Also included in this is information from Bates stating that the cost would be around, I believe it's around 16,000, a little more than that. I apologize. I don't have it open in front of me for the electrical connection. The big number is going to come in with the water and sewer. We are still working with Merlot and I would like to see the numbers that Merlot is going to come in with Shamrock did provide us a number. However, it's more of a, if you read the statements in there, it states that this is assuming that we don't need a lift station. We don't need this. We don't need that. Merlot is stating there's a real good chance we may need a lift station. So I really would like to wait to get their numbers before we move forward. I just wanted to kind of show you the progress and where we are. Merlo has been on site more than once doing measurements and still working with looking at the true connections. They did want to discuss the possibility of moving it closer to the pickleball courts, if that would change the numbers. Number one, I don't know that it will. And number two, I think the board's pretty set on wanting to have it on the other side where you originally selected. So it's just more information to come and mostly where it's coming down to. But I would expect that the price tag is going to be what Shamrock provided, if not more, just to give you a ballpark of where we are. Other item I will note is that the Municipal Park Grant will be coming soon to where you can apply for that in August. I am still trying to get in contact with Pat Kelly with the Municipal Park Grant Commission to see what our odds would even be if we applied since the fact that we've taken advantage of it for the last two years at the max amount. um on top of that as you guys remember you typically have to have some sort of comprehensive plan that shows the amenity we don't have that that we could provide and those big points anytime you lose points on this especially if you've taken advantage of these of ding a ding a ding so i just need to talk to pat kelly to see if it's even feasible if so i'll be bringing that to you in july to see if you'd be interested in staff applying for the grant again it's a lot of work to do if it's something that's not

Yeah, that was going to be my question. You brought that up because I thought we had decided on closer to the Hitzert Pavilion for the bathroom, not by the pickleball.

Yes.

Because that would basically be very close to the main pavilion.

So what we're going to do is just wait and see what the numbers are. I'm just giving you an idea that it is most likely going to be what Shamrock provided us, if not more, just to give you a ballpark. So we are looking in total probably around at least a $300,000 price tag.

So, you know, if we're going to proceed with this, Alderman Mazerang, you had a good point there that, you know, Nikki and I have kicked this around, you know, lift station, not, you know, I'm not crazy about a lift station, but we're talking about, we're not talking about lifting a whole subdivision or something. And if we have a flood or electric goes down, the worst thing that can happen is we shut it off until we can get it fixed. But, I mean, the need is there, and I agree. If you don't put it over by the Hitzert, if you put it closer to the Pickleball, you've kind of lost.

It's a Pickleball-only bathroom, basically.

Yeah, because I've watched them go from the Pickleball over there, and it'll probably be the same distance. And there really is nothing over in that area for restrooms and no big enough trees, so. But I'm just throwing it out there about the lift station, because we've had a long extensive, it's like, well, you know, we don't want a lift station, but it's not going to carry, you know, households forever.

So for next month, what I hope to have is two items. Number one, a request to go to apply for the grant. If we deem it to be feasible, I'll report to the board either way on that. And then also hopefully finalize numbers for Merlot, because we will have to have that to apply for the grant.

Thank you. Next item is discussion regarding pets at city-held events in the parks. This has come on the heels of an incident that we had at a food truck event and thought it should be discussed. Anyone got involved in the joke?

Well, maybe not everybody probably knows what happened.

So there was a dog that was at Alderman. Carol and I both happened to witness this. There was a dog. The dog was on a leash. There was a prior incident where the dog kind of snapped but didn't bite. And then a child walked in front of the dog, and the dog lunged at the child and actually bit her in the leg and punctured her leg in the front and the back. And so after that happened, This is the follow-up conversation.

And there are cities that do with large events such as this. I mean, this wouldn't be uncommon that they state that at these types of events, we understand that it is a public park, but to say in these situations is the, you know... it's loud, it's crowded, it's where maybe sometimes animals that wouldn't do what they would normally do could react in certain ways. And of course, this is fully a board decision, but we wanted to have a discussion. I know there are other municipalities that when they have these larger events such as this, that they do state that pets are not allowed. Of course, it's limited, of course, for service dogs.

Right, Jeff?

I don't think I had my hand up first, but I'll go ahead. So I was there that night and that's the first that's happened that I know of. And I really, I hate this because I love the fact people walk in their dogs and everybody pets them. Their dogs love it. And it's really a cool, cool thing. But It's unfortunate that we have people that bring a dog that they know has the potential to do this, and we can't control that, right? And we couldn't control, and we couldn't be specific on animals. In other words, we can't say, no pit bulls, right? No pit bulls, no Great Danes or whatever, because... Every dog's different. Every dog's going to react different. So unfortunately, I think we're at a point where we're going to have to do this because of insurance and lawsuits and all that. And it's really sad.

I'm going to disagree because I do feel like, one, more and more pets are becoming more like children to people. I do feel like we should, can we say something like there was a dog bite at the last, at the last food truck Friday, food truck, you know, that is an environment while we are having fun, it is stressful for the dog. So if you do not know your, you know, if you feel it might, if you feel like your dog may not, be as happy, you know, leave the dog at home or, but also we can come up with an area where pets are from here on out. And then that way, like you can still enjoy the food truck. You can still bring your fur babies. They need to be on a six foot leash and you cannot leave them unattended. I mean, that would be, but I don't feel like, because then, you know, well, then why don't we say you can only have three drinks because you can't be stumbling down. I saw a guy, he fell down face first down the hill because he was so drunk and he couldn't get up. But we're not calling him to attention and saying people, we can't do alcohol.

Harold and then Lang. So I wanted to say, I was, from me to Jimmy, away from where this happened. And the dog was laying on the ground. and the lady that owned the dog was sitting at the other side of the picnic bench from me. And the child, I guess, was three, four years old, came awfully close to the dog, and I guess startled the dog, and that's when the dog bit her. And I don't know that he would have had she have not gotten that close, but I mean, kids are kids, right? But then again, last week, I was at the ball field down there, and a guy came in with his pit bull on a leash. And Joe happened to be there. And the guy came in. He had all of his ball gear over one shoulder. He had the dog. He put the dog's leash on a chair as if that was going to hold him. and then he left the dog unattended, and he went to put his ball equipment to the side, and that dog lunged at an individual. Sitting in a chair.

That's where you can't leave them unattended. It's your three-year-old toddler. You don't leave your three-year-old toddler unattended. Dogs are...

And let me say, the dog that bit the little girl, I personally saw that same dog lunge at another kid, didn't bite. I had heard that. I saw that when I didn't see the second bite.

Again, I see both sides of this. I'm a dog owner, have been for years. Even a good dog, as it gets older and has hearing and vision issues, can change and get startled. I know someone personally whose dog bit their daughter's face and had that plastic surgery when the dog got older. It just got scared. I don't... Leasing this is going to be hard. And it's going to put a sour taste on food trucks. I mean, it's going to put a sour taste in residents' mouths. So I don't know what the right thing to do is. Honestly, you know, this, to me, this might be an Aaron thing. Like, what do you really think the city needs to do? Because feelings are going to be feelings here and everybody's going to, I mean, I don't want to do this at all because I want to bring my dog down there when we go, you know, but what, what do you recommend as a city attorney?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it can be a liability if, yeah, they argue that you're, I do err with Nikki that I do think it is common, green tree events, those kinds of things. Very clear, animals are not allowed. Now, do people violate that? Are there hugs on there when you say animals are not allowed? Absolutely. There's no perfect answer. Even on those events where it very clearly says they're only service dogs, they come. I don't see, when I go to those events, I don't see the It's just to limit it and to protect you. We're not going to kick someone out. You have the liability in there to protect you of saying, public, we do realize that this could be a situation where we say, don't break.

Yeah, and that kind of was my point. The policing of it is going to be a nightmare.

So you're not suggesting legislation. You're just putting notice out there.

Well, like a lot of them, what they do is for the actual events, when they announce a food truck or announce this event, they'll actually have on the announcement, no pets for this event. So it's a per event thing. If you're expecting a lot of people, it might not be a good idea to have it. The only concern I have about putting all the animals in one spot is that's kind of then the dark. You basically just created a dog park. And if you don't have police and rulings for that, you also could have just created an event where a dog might attack another dog. And now we have all of those.

We've seen that down at the food truck events, too.

All of them are answering? Oh, yes.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'd say. You can't, I mean, I've seen dogs in Walmart and Home Depot and Lowe's. You can't stop people from, I mean, people bring their dogs everywhere anymore. It's kind of, to me, a little bit out of control. I don't like seeing dogs in food departments at Walmart. That's just, I think, kind of violating health code. But the... People, how do you police it? Yeah, I just don't see people are going to just obey it. They're going to just do what they want. They're going to say, this is a public park. I'm going to bring my dog. I think that kind of goes back to Aaron. I think the onus and responsibility goes on the dog owner, ultimately. It's not our dog that's biting someone. It's just like if your dog bites someone at your house, that's your problem. If you take your dog in public somewhere and it bites someone, I would think that would be the dog owner's problem. I don't really see it's a liability for the city. And honestly, are we creating a liability by saying don't bring a dog? I mean, no.

Well, and if they don't read it and they show up and they've got their dog, then they're going to have to leave.

Can we, in the newsletter, just say, hey, we've had a rash of situations with dogs that you even think your dog is aggressive in any way or old and irritable?

So I did write a little piece at the board.

I was going to say, why don't we see if there's any reaction to the mayor's comments that he put on the front page that he stated that this is something that was going to be discussed and maybe see what the public consensus comeback is on that.

I like it. But to kind of bring up, this is a stressful environment. animals. We also have a lot of young kids running around that may not be aware of dog etiquette. Therefore, we really encourage you to leave your furry pets or your furry children at home for the dog safety as well as, you know, so that everybody can

You know, and the one thing that I'll say, and only because I'm proof, my son, when he was two years old, my own German shepherd was deaf, and he fell on top of him and reached around and bit him, and after a hundred stitches, they quit counting. Thank God, thank God it wasn't in his face or at his throat. So as far as I'm concerned, and much of an animal lover, I've had horses, dogs, cats, There's no human being, especially a kid, getting bit by an animal. It just doesn't work with me. And the trauma that you could put these kids through and, again, bite some pretty little girl, little boy in the face. Man. And I've seen that, and it's just disfigured them. I know that to me it's...

Do we say please?

I don't know. I'm like everybody else. I hate to see that because I know a lot of good dogs that interact with kids and this and that. And on the other hand, I can't believe that those people didn't take that dog out the first time that they bit or it lunged at that kid.

Yes. Yeah, so Aaron, a question, a follow-up. So because the fact that the city of Fenton created the event, hosted the event, and invited people to the event, Do we become more responsible in a lawyer's sense?

I mean, no. I mean, people can always argue everything. I mean, our exception to sovereign immunity is a dangerous condition. So I mean, but I don't see that argument at all. But I mean, obviously.

So then if that's the case, and it becomes this dog owner's responsibility for biting, then it's between those two people, and we're out of it? No.

Okay, I'm just going to continue this until we see what kind of feedback we get from the mayor's newsletter. And the last item I have is discussion regarding lighting for the parking lot located north of Pickleball Courts. I already brought this up earlier. It's just that parking lot is dark.

I thought that lot, didn't it? Did it have lights at one time? Not that far down.

What that was is our old lights that we had before we went to the LEDs, the way they shone, they provided light for that parking lot. And then when we went over to the LEDs for the ball fields, that went away.

It's needed and I think there's a hole on the inside.

But now the pickleball courts are there. It's very known when people are trying to go to their cars that that area is very dark at night. So if the board is comfortable, if you would like me to move forward, I think I've provided you kind of with an estimate. Bates would be happy to go out and start getting, I think they just need more of a guarantee that the city does want to move forward with this project before putting the work and time into providing the formal estimate.

So are we talking like just putting something on the existing ball field lights or actually putting light poles in the ground?

This is per pole. It's an estimate of about 5,000 per pole turnkey.

Motion detector? Like, you know what I mean? Like, does half the time, like from 12 o'clock on, do the lights go off or?

I don't know how they operate now.

I can ask him.

Yeah, ask. But I got to tell you, that's when you see the crap going on in the park is when the lights are off.

But if it's motion detected...

going to see it because yeah i don't come on i don't know so there's some that they're having problems with them now and there but do those i don't remember those stay on all night yes those are amaran lights those are amaran light poles well the problem with motion detecting i mean that is a good idea but the problem is is if you're walking from the pickleball if the lights on the pickleball court go out and you're walking across to the parking lot it's not going to come on until you get there

Can't you turn the lights on for 10 minutes?

No, once 11 o'clock, you cannot turn. No, they are out. So you're walking in the dark until you get to the parking lot.

Lang and then Harold. The only other thing I'll say about motion sensor, let's say, yeah, timing-wise, if there's a softball game going on, if there are people playing and it's dark and they're going on and off while you're playing, as someone that's playing, that's like, I mean, that would be an absolute nightmare trying to catch a fly ball and lights are going on and off while cars are driving by. Good point.

That's annoying, Ron. I did hear that there's been some kids down in the park knocking over porta potties and that kind of thing. You did? I did. And I only know that because, well, I don't same people or not, but there were a bunch of boys that ran across my lawn and up against my house to get to the neighbors to throw rocks at the window. It's young kids, boys with a crush on a girl or whatever. I don't know.

Boy, that's what I did when I was young.

I threw rocks through their windows.

I don't think they did it to break the windows.

Yes, no dogs and no teenagers in the park. So I'm going to make that motion.

Are there no lights on that lot now? Mm-mm. No. Okay, so when you look at this picture or you think about driving through the park, that parking lot also acts as a thoroughfare, as a street. It should be lit. It should be lit the same as any of our other streets in the park system.

And I'm telling you, at night when the park and the pickleball lights are on, it's still dark. The way the directional lights are on the ball field.

I'm going to make a motion that we move forward with this. It's clearly needed.

Alderman Lang. Second. Motion by Huells. Maybe continue it until next month and we'll get additional information. No, I was going to start working with Bates and hopefully have it to you guys by next month.

I will continue it. That's all I have for parks.

All right. Where did we leave off? Let's go to planning and zoning. Thank you.

I didn't think it'd ever get to me. We always get to you, Uncle Ron. All recommendations from Planning and Zoning Commission will be forwarded to the next board meeting for a public hearing consideration unless otherwise noted. Announcements from Planning and Zoning Commission. We have none. The Planning and Zoning Commission recommended the following. Approval with conditions of case 2026, SPR 04, a petition by Gravois Bluffs East Lot 9B, LLC for site plan review of a new commercial building with drive-through facility at 695 Gravois Bluffs Boulevard. Property is zone C1 commercial district. This is a proposed new building on a newly created lot in Gravois Bluffs in front of Haverty's. The new building will have two tenant suites. The petitioner announced that the office tenant would be Aspen Dental, which will require a special use permit. The restaurant tenant will be... poltley and will include a pickup window for order ahead pickup only it will not be a traditional drive-through facility signage and pavement markings will be provided to ensure safe site circulation and to and from the drive-through pickup area overall site plan meets all requirements of c1 district Only minor changes are needed to indicate where the required drive-through lane, required drive-through lane. Amy, did you have anything to add or have any questions?

Amy, have you or could you, if you talk to Applebaum, the discussion about the concern of that left end there, can you see if they have concerns? You know, I don't,

Off of Gravois Bluffs Boulevard, is that what you're talking about? Yeah, I can certainly reach out to them.

I don't know what you would do, but I don't know what they've thought about that.

Yeah, I can see if he has any concerns. It also might be very close to MoDOT Rideway. We'll see if that is even in MoDOT Rideway, and that might be something. But yeah, absolutely.

Thank you. That it? That is it, sir. All right. We're going to move to miscellaneous. Jane, you want to talk about the upgrades to the boardroom audio system?

I'm still waiting on reply feedback on the demonstration and availability of getting that. So we'd like to have that continued to July.

All right. I'll make that motion.

Speak on that. I don't think we need a motion, do we? I said I wanted a motion.

Requests for liquor license renewals. I think everybody, there were a couple that, Weren't in. You still have a couple waiting for.

Yeah.